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Leading NY writer likens Edward Said to monster in a horror movie

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On Sunday night Jonathan Rosen, a leading New York writer and editor, likened the late Palestinian author Edward Said to a monster in a horror movie.

Interviewing the former Israeli ambassador Michael Oren about his new book, Ally, at the 92d Street Y, Rosen said that by leaving academia, Oren managed to escape the influence of Edward Said’s Orientalism, the landmark 1978 book on western imperialist representations of the Middle East– but Said’s critique of the west burst out of academia and into political life.

You were an  academic, as  well, and that was a hard world to be in. You talk about how large Edward Said’s book Orientalism loomed in the academy. And you kind of get out and you write your books outside the academy… And I’ve often thought about Power, Faith and Fantasy, which is a terrific book, as being a sort of answer to Orientalism. And what I was imagining as I was reading this book, it’s almost like in a horror movie where you feel like you escaped and you get into the house and you lock the door and you turn around and the monster is behind you. So here you left academia, you took your case to a large readership, you establish this notion  that in a sense to be an ally of Israel is to be a greater American in some sense… And then as ambassador, in fact the spirit of Orientalism, of Edward Said’s book which you mentioned, is there. I guess my question is what’s the connection between the Ivory Tower and the White House and how much of an aberration would you say what Obama articulated in [the Cairo] speech was…

This is a negative characterization of the seminal work of a major Arab-American writer. It’s sort of like saying The Souls of Black Folks by W.E.B Dubois is a monster.

Jonathan Rosen

Jonathan Rosen

Rosen’s question followed a critique by Oren of President Obama’s June 2009 Cairo speech as a revolutionary policy pronouncement. So Rosen was suggesting that Obama was influenced by that monster, Orientalism. This is not the kind of criticism, of the president or Said, that is likely to resonate with young progressive Americans. Rosen surely would have been booed by some audiences. But his comment went unremarked on in a Jewish audience last Sunday night, introduced by an official of the organization who said the 92nd Street Y stands with pride with Israel. And it goes along with Oren’s loony statement about Obama trying to get right with two absent Muslim fathers, which even the ADL has slammed as an unjustified attack.

Obama and Edward Said at dinner in 1998, photo from Ali Abunimah

Obama and Edward Said at dinner in 1998, photo from Ali Abunimah

The interchange seems to me to crystallize the risk that Jewish political life faces today: the alliance with Israel has made establishment organizations extremely conservative.

Oren then grabbed Rosen’s ball and ran with it, saying that neo-Marxists took over academic departments when they couldn’t make revolutions in the real world, and that their ideas were picked up by the young strivers in the Obama administration– notably the idea of the Israel lobby, from those notable reds Steve Walt and John Mearsheimer.

Rosen is a big deal in Jewish life. He’s a novelist, a former culture editor at the Forward, and the editorial director of  Nextbook/Schocken— an imprint legendary for posthumous publication of Kafka’s writings.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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51 Responses

  1. just
    June 25, 2015, 4:15 pm

    “Rosen is a big deal in Jewish life.”

    I’ll make a suggestion to those that consider him a “big deal”.

    Go shopping for a better deal.

    (Edward Said, RIP)

    • Peter Principle
      June 25, 2015, 4:19 pm

      Being a minor pimple on the ass of the New York literary scene does not make one “a big deal in Jewish life.”

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2015, 11:00 am

        “Being a minor pimple on the ass of the New York literary scene does not make one “a big deal in Jewish life.”

        Just between you and me, Pete, I think I’ve noticed (pretty tentative, huh?) that Phil has a policy (and a damned good one) of being unfailingly gracious to other writers.

  2. amigo
    June 25, 2015, 4:17 pm

    Too bad we are unable to sit Rosen across from the late Edward Said and watch little Johnnie Rosen get his comeuppance.

    Talk about Lion v Mouse.

    • chocopie
      June 25, 2015, 4:34 pm

      That’s for sure. And his suggestion that Oren’s book was an “answer” to Orientalism is laughable. Something only a die hard Zionist could say with a straight face.

  3. Steve Grover
    June 25, 2015, 4:25 pm

    Nothing new here. You can read all about how full of it Said was in Joshua Muravchik’s “Making David into Goliath”. I was forced to read Said’s screed “Orientalism in college. I wonder if Brian Williams learned honesty from Said.

    • just
      June 25, 2015, 4:38 pm

      Joshua Muravchik~ a neocon who wants to attack Iran.

      “Joshua Muravchik is a leading proponent of interventionist U.S. foreign policies who has played an important role in shaping neoconservative ideology and agendas, including pushing for war with Iran. An erstwhile Socialist Party activist, Muravchik has been affiliated with numerous political pressure groups, right-wing think tanks, and organizations associated with the “Israel lobby” in the United States.

      Muravchik has been a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a trustee at Freedom House, a board member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), a signatory on Project for the New American Century (PNAC) letter-writing campaigns, and an adjunct scholar at the Washington Institute for Near East Affairs (WINEP). Since 2009, Muravchik has been a fellow at the School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at John Hopkins University, a Washington, D.C.-based graduate school that has served as home base for numerous figures associated with neoconservatism, including Paul Wolfowitz, Eliot Cohen, and Thomas Donnelly.[1]

      Muravchik has been unabashed in his one-sided support of Israel. During the 2014 Gaza War, he lashed out at Human Rights Watch for highlighting Israeli human rights abuses during the conflict. Writing for the Weekly Standard, he criticized the group for purportedly waging “a relentless campaign against the Jewish state” and endorsing the “Palestinian ‘right of return.'” He argued that any endorsement of the idea that Palestinian refugees have a right to return to their homes is equivalent to endorsing “a formula for abolishing Israel as a Jewish state.” He added, “To endorse it is implicitly to endorse the destruction of Israel.”[2]”

      – See more at: http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Muravchik_Joshua#sthash.BwUVEAeh.dpuf

      Terrific, Steve. Anything else?

    • Shingo
      June 25, 2015, 4:59 pm

      You can read all about how full of it Said was in Joshua Muravchik’s “Making David into Goliath”.

      Yeah, nothing like turning to another lunatic neocon, who had been wrong about everything, as an authority.

      • Mooser
        June 25, 2015, 10:02 pm

        Never saw a guy live up to his name like “Grober”.

    • traintosiberia
      June 28, 2015, 1:39 am

      Resorting to the wisdom of Muravchik to understand Said is like asking Cheney to comment on Geneva Convention. Both are entitled to their opinions ,one can argue .

  4. sawah
    June 25, 2015, 4:28 pm

    I like that Rosen’s picture initially turned out to show a fat head.

  5. lysias
    June 25, 2015, 4:36 pm

    Oren’s graduate school mentor, Bernard Lewis, left the Middle East Studies Association (MESA) and formed his own new group Association for the Study of the Middle East and Africa (ASMEA) in 2007 precisely because he objected to the influence of Said and his book Orientalism. In fact, I attended one of the annual meetings of MESA where I believe Lewis debated Said, back in the 1980’s. (I’m not sure, because I didn’t attend the debate.)

    • traintosiberia
      June 28, 2015, 1:41 am

      Bernard Lewis in 1992 wrote on the best possible Middle Eastern political solution. He repackaged Yoded Yinon and advocated Lebanonization of the Middle East.

  6. diasp0ra
    June 25, 2015, 4:43 pm

    They could never be a quarter of the giant that Edward Said was, even if they stacked on top of each other.

    Orientalism was a landmark piece, and in my opinion should be mandatory reading for any class that deals with the MENA region. I find that the majority of people in the US and Europe don’t realize how west-centric they are in their attitudes and their belief in the universal character of the white experience and point of view.

  7. Philip Weiss
    June 25, 2015, 4:52 pm

    Right; how many of us white privileged folks have been called upon to reflect on our privilege in the last 10 and 20 years in part because of Said’s intervention, and others? It’s an important conversation. …
    And Rosen treats this kind of activity as monstrous.

    • echinococcus
      June 25, 2015, 5:48 pm

      Agreed, Mr Weiss. More reason for discontinuing, at good last, your residually respectful treatment of this propaganda rag and its overrated [….].

      • Annie Robbins
        June 25, 2015, 5:58 pm

        echino, could you link to some examples of phil’s “residually respectful treatment” of the nyt. perhaps i’m so accustomed to reading MW i have developed blinders wrt how much we fawn over the nyt. i just can’t recall much of it, especially lately. once in awhile perhaps. anyway some recent examples would be helpful.

      • Philip Weiss
        June 25, 2015, 6:23 pm

        thanks annie, but i think hes’ talking about forward?

      • Annie Robbins
        June 27, 2015, 12:53 pm

        of course. whoops!

    • DaBakr
      June 25, 2015, 8:20 pm

      E.Said was equally ‘priviledged’ . Seminal ( agree) work or not-it can still be justly criticized for changing the meaning of ‘Orientalism’ from a relatively positive term about the influence of the Arab/Muslim world pre-ww2 Ottoman era and before to a pejorative term associated with racism and oppression. I don’t exactly see where it has helped change either of these conditions even if it changed the terminology and allowed those in the leftist west to assuage their guilt and label and entire class of western educated scholars as racist imperialist scourges

      • Mooser
        June 25, 2015, 10:04 pm

        “E.Said was equally ‘priviledged’”

        He was, indeed. He knew how to spell, and put a sentence together.

      • Mooser
        June 25, 2015, 10:51 pm

        “Seminal ( agree) work or not-it can still be justly criticized for changing the meaning of ‘Orientalism’ from a relatively positive term about the influence of the Arab/Muslim world pre-ww2 Ottoman era and before to a pejorative term associated with racism and oppression “

        Yeah, Okay (ROTFLMSJAO!) Sure Dabakr, that sounds just about right. Why if it hadn’t been for that monster Said, everybody would think being Orientalized’ was a good thing. But Said aroused oppression and racism against the Arab/Muslim world, by changing the meaning. Monstrous, I say, monstrous!

      • DaBakr
        June 26, 2015, 9:49 am

        @ms

        what you lack in content you make up for in quantities[heaping] of inane, contemptuous ‘quips'(well, barely) on spell-check , archives and acronyms. try reading Said before spouting forth. nobody is disputing his brilliance or that he had an editor, funny man.

      • Mooser
        June 26, 2015, 12:00 pm

        “that he had an editor…”

        Nah, I bet he cheated and used “spel-chek”

    • jayn0t
      June 26, 2015, 12:00 am

      “How many of us white privileged folks have been called upon to reflect on our privilege in the last 10 and 20 years in part because of Said’s intervention”

      Exactly. Said’s “Orientalism” is firmly within the traditions of American left-wing academia. It is useless for Palestine solidarity, because it amalgamates Israel with US imperialism, and the supremacy of Israel with the dying racial supremacy of the Western countries. Palestine solidarity in the West has been dominated by this leftist narrative for decades, and has been a failure. It falsely tells the majority of Americans they have an interest in supporting Israel.

      • DaBakr
        June 26, 2015, 9:58 am

        @jt

        so are you saying the left (or the far-left) in the west has failed the Palestinian cause? I understand where Saids book falls but not sure wether your saying its either useless-or just out-of-date? Said entire life-as well as his book are firmly ensconced within the traditions of the western leftist elites post ww2 to 00s so its hard to imagine his tome as a ‘failure’ to Palestinian empowerment.

      • Mooser
        June 26, 2015, 12:04 pm

        “within the traditions of the western leftist elites”

        I’m with ya’ “Dabakr”. If there’s anything I can’t stand it’s the “traditions” of iconoclasts and radicals.

  8. JLewisDickerson
    June 25, 2015, 5:47 pm

    RE: “The interchange [between Oren and Rosen] seems to me to crystallize the risk that Jewish political life faces today: the alliance with Israel has made establishment organizations extremely conservative.” ~ Weiss

    MY COMMENT: Hence my fear that Revisionist Zionism and Likudnik Israel (specifically by virtue of their inordinate sway over the U.S.) might very well be an “existential threat” to the values of The Enlightenment ! ! !

    OTHER EXAMPLES OF OUR “SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP” WITH LIKUDNIK ISRAEL TRUMPING (OVERRIDING) THE VALUES OF THE ENLIGHTENMENT HERE IN THE U.S.
    “How We Became Israel”, By Andrew J. Bacevich, The American Conservative, 9/10/12
    LINK – http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-we-became-israel/
    “America Adopts the Israel Paradigm”, by Philip Ghiraldi, Antiwar.com, 7/05/12
    LINK – http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2012/07/04/america-adopts-the-israel-paradigm/
    “Report: Israeli model underlies militarization of U.S. police”, By Muriel Kane, Raw Story, 12/04/11
    LINK – http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/04/report-israeli-model-underlies-militarization-of-u-s-police/
    “From Occupation to ‘Occupy’: The Israelification of American Domestic Security”, By Max Blumenthal, Al-akhbar, 12/02/11
    LINK – http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/2178 OR http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29892.htm
    “Homeland Security Made in Israel”, by Philip Giraldi, Antiwar.com, 8/22/13
    LINK – http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2013/08/21/homeland-security-made-in-israel/
    • NRA pushes plan imported from Israel to put police in all of our schools:
    NRA President’s Report: David Keene on the Push to Protect Our Children [VIDEO, 12:10] – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Iy-LVL5dU
    • In the wake of the Boston bombings, a “National Security Expert” on Fox Faux News said that the U.S. is like a 14-year-old teenager going through “security puberty”; and we must demand that our government “get on the Israeli page”! ! !
    On the Wish List from the Boston Bombings – The Israelization of America [VIDEO, 00:25] – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fff8dXQNVdA
    “Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA”, By Michael Kelley, Business Insider, 6/07/13
    LINK – http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6
    “IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology”, By Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 6/07/13
    LINK – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/09/top-secret-iaf-unit-exposed/
    “Meet the Israeli-linked firm that sold Big Brother machines to Mubarak, Qaddafi – and Washington”, by Max Blumenthal, Mondoweiss, 6/15/13
    LINK – http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/machines-qaddafi-washington.html
    “What was the Israeli Involvement in Collecting U.S. Communications Intel for NSA? ~ By Haaretz, The Associated Press and Reuters, informationclearinghouse.info, 6/08/13
    LINK – http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35215.htm
    “The Second Battle of Gaza: Israel’s Undermining Of International Law”, by Jeff Halper, mrzine.monthlyreview.org, 02/26/10
    LINK – http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/halper260210.html
    “The Trial of Israel’s Campus Critics”, by David Theo Goldberg & Saree Makdisi, Tikkun Magazine, September/October 2009
    LINK – http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/sept_oct_09_goldberg_makdisi
    “Brooklyn College’s academic freedom increasingly threatened over Israel event”, by Glenn Greenwald, guardian.co.uk, 2/02/13
    LINK – http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/02/brooklyn-college-bds-alan-dershowitz
    “Peter ‘Powder Keg’ Beinart is disinvited from gig at Atlanta Jewish book festival”, by Annie Robbins, Mondoweiss, 11/05/12
    LINK – http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/peter-powder-keg-beinart-is-disinvited-from-gig-at-atlanta-jewish-book-festival.html
    ‘Israelis are helping write US laws, fund US campaigns, craft US war policy’, by Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss, 6/30/12
    LINK – http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/israelis-are-helping-write-us-laws-fund-us-campaigns-craft-us-war-policy.html
    “David Yerushalmi, Islam-Hating White Supremacist Inspires Anti-Sharia Bills Sweeping Tea Party Nation”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 3/02/11
    LINK – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/03/02/david-yerushalmi-islam-hating-white-supremacist/
    “Boston airport security program rife with racial profiling has Israeli links”, by Alex Kane, Mondoweiss, 8/14/12
    LINK – http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/boston-airport-security-program-rife-with-racial-profiling-has-israeli-links.html
    “Obama’s kill list policy compels US support for Israeli attacks on Gaza”, By Glenn Greenwald, guardian.co.uk, 11/15/12
    LINK – http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/15/israel-gaza-obama-assassinations
    “Gaza in Arizona: The secret militarization of the U.S.-Mexico border” Todd Miller and Gabriel M. Schivone, TomDispatch.com, February 1, 2015
    LINK – http://www.salon.com/2015/02/01/gaza_in_arizona_the_secret_militarization_of_the_u_s_mexico_border_partner/

    • just
      June 25, 2015, 5:56 pm

      Thank goodness I’ve read some of your very impressive library, John! Otherwise, I’d be rooting around for days.

      wow. Thanks, as always, for the links.

    • jayn0t
      June 26, 2015, 12:07 am

      “the risk that Jewish political life faces today: the alliance with Israel has made establishment organizations extremely conservative”

      That’s because, over the last fifty years or so, Jewish interests have logically led to supporting more conservative politicians. That’s why a significant collection of Jewish intellectuals switched from Trotskyism to neo-conservatism. It’s not a “risk to Jewish political life” at all. It’s just a different strategy for a different time.

      • MHughes976
        June 26, 2015, 5:36 am

        During our recent election campaign in the UK there was a survey of Jewish opinion, giving a 2 to 1 Conservative lead.

      • bryan
        June 27, 2015, 9:02 am
    • ivri
      June 26, 2015, 10:13 am

      @JLD
      That`s the “existential threat” to the Enlightenment? What happened to your historical memory? Can`t anybody see that The Enlightenment ha has been undone in WW2 in Europe and that all in this regard is downhill since?
      There are acts that can`t be reversed by just an apology – “sorry, let`s put it all behind and continue as before”. Europe was the torchbearer of The Enlightenment and has utterly betrayed it with the Jews in its midst in the most horrific and imaginable way. Since then Everything “European” is losing ground – the formation of the EU notwithstanding – and it was History`s dictum that not only will they lose their influence on the new world-master, the US, but that also those they tried to annihilate will take their place as its “close friend” .

      • Mooser
        June 26, 2015, 12:12 pm

        “and it was History`s dictum that not only will they lose their influence on the new world-master, the US, but that also those they tried to annihilate will take their place as its “close friend”

        Shorter “irvi”: “We run the US now, so watch out, Europe!”

      • Froggy
        June 26, 2015, 4:08 pm

        ivri : “What happened to your historical memory? Can`t anybody see that The Enlightenment ha has been undone in WW2 in Europe and that all in this regard is downhill since?”

        What happened in WW2 in Europe is that our grandparents’ fought evil and won.

        “History`s dictum that not only will they lose their influence on the new world-master, the US….”

        Do you mean the same US that granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, even to the extent of sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador? Are you referring to the same US that was so enlightened that its government sent the refugee ship the St Louis back to Europe rather than let Jews find even temporary refuge in the US?

        Whatever happened to your historical memory?

        Froggy, doing better than fine in France

      • JLewisDickerson
        June 26, 2015, 4:21 pm

        As I understand it, Anti-Semitism was one area where the Enlightenment was a failure in that it merely converted religious Anti-Semitism to secular Anti-Semitism. At any rate, the Enlightenment is/was not the ‘be-all and end-all’, but it’s a better starting point (to improve upon) than the alternatives.

      • Keith
        June 26, 2015, 5:05 pm

        MOOSER- “Shorter “irvi”: “We run the US now, so watch out, Europe!”

        Considering the imperial destruction of the Ukraine, imperial support for the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, sanctions on Russia that hurt Germany at least as much, the financial rape of Greece, etc, Europe is going to undergo a very rough period.

      • MHughes976
        June 26, 2015, 5:21 pm

        The Enlightenment period did see some progress for Jewish people – I’ve visited the atea of Prague where many Jews lived and which was named by them after Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor, and quintessential Enlightened monarch.

      • bryan
        June 27, 2015, 9:06 am

        JLD – “the Enlightenment is/was not the ‘be-all and end-all'” It may not have given us the aqueduct, sanitation, roads, irrigation, medicine, education, public baths, wine, public order and peace (Monty Python, Life of Brian) but it did bring us empiricism, rationalism, scientific method, religious toleration, secularism, humanism, democracy, classical liberalism,republicanism, social contract theory replacing the Divine Right of Kings, the concepts of the separation of powers and the separation of church and state, the Rights of Man (French National Assembly), The Rights of Woman (Mary Wollstonecraft) modern physics, chemistry, geology, the steam engine, the hot-air balloon, and lots of other goodies. OK it wasn’t perfect, and some like Ivri will complain that the Enlightenment did not pre-empt the events of a century and a half later, but Jews were offered civil rights, opportunities to assimilate and to escape the ghetto and the tyranny of rabbinical authority.

      • bryan
        June 27, 2015, 9:37 am

        “those they tried to annihilate will take their place as its “close friend”

        I am assuming that you are referring to the US – Israel “relationship” Ivri, but there are two problems with the comment:
        (1) There is no direct connection between Israel and those Europeans annihilated in World War II, many of whom were hostile to the philosophy of Zionism;
        (2) there is little current or historic evidence of friendship – a direct attack on a US naval vessel, the undermining of American democracy and the advocacy of disastrous wars (Iraq) or potential wars (Iran) by Israel and its supporters are not standard hallmarks of close friendship. indeed there is very little gratitude displayed by the junior partner, just as their was in an earlier “close friendship” with Britain, which having granted the Balfour Declaration and done its utmost to thwart Palestinian demands for national self-determination was then rewarded with terrorist bombs from Zionist militias.

  9. Citizen
    June 25, 2015, 6:18 pm

    “….you establish this notion that in a sense to be an ally of Israel is to be a greater American in some sense ”

    That’s the ticket, being an Israel Firster means not that you are a traitor or dual loyalist, but that you are a super Patriotic American!

    “In a sense”

    LOL Talk about pretzel logic…

  10. surewin
    June 25, 2015, 6:31 pm

    Attention shoppers: each of Rosen’s books is available now on amazon for a penny. These are some of the biggest deals you’ll find anywhere in Jewish life.

    As for Nextbook Press, it’s a repository of truth. Authors include Alan Dershowitz, Jeffrey Goldberg, Elie Wiesel, Shimon Peres, David Mamet, Daniel Gordis, and Ruth Wisse (the Martin Peretz Professor of something somewhere).

  11. yonah fredman
    June 25, 2015, 7:38 pm

    I am sure that there are many here among you who have read “Orientalism” plus the critiques of it and have reached the conclusion that Said is totally accurate in his assessment of Orientalism and all those who criticized him were off base and biased conservatives. Maybe all progressives who have their priorities straight recognize immediately without any hesitation the righteousness of Said and the regression of the critics. Unfortunately I have only read excerpts from the book and from the critique by Bernard Lewis and thus do not consider myself an expert.

    Still I think comparing a book about academia and research done by westerners studying the Levant to W. E. B. Dubois’s “The Souls of Black Folks”, seems to be totally off base. It is as if any criticism of Said’s book is prima facie racist and that seems to be totally blind to the controversies still surrounding Said’s book.

    • yonah fredman
      June 25, 2015, 7:56 pm

      Here is the wikipedia article which includes the controversies still surrounding Said’s book.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)

      • Donald
        June 26, 2015, 8:07 am

        i read Orentalism a long time ago and most of it was over my head, as I wasn’t familiar with much of what he wrote about. But his general point was obviously correct–he was talking about Eurocentric colonial attitudes. You would expect this from any culture which is in the process of conquering another. On the lowbrow level, I once read Michener’s novel on Israel “the Source”. It was Orientalism for the masses, complete with the claim that the Palestinian refugees all fled on orders from their leaders. The funny thing is that Michener was a liberal who usually would write sympathetically about indigenous people in his other books.

        And anyway, if Said was wrong on some details, it would hardly justify referring to him as a monster. I suspect that Rosen and Oren would prefer a cultural environment of the sort that on the low level produced the kinds of novels that Uris or Michener wrote.

    • Mooser
      June 25, 2015, 10:09 pm

      “Unfortunately I have only read excerpts from the book and from the critique by Bernard Lewis and thus do not consider myself an expert.”

      Yes, true, but there’s just so many fresh steaming piles in this pasture, you can’t resist hopping, skipping and jumping in. Good luck, and use the Scruffee before you go back inside.

  12. eljay
    June 26, 2015, 8:23 am

    So here you left academia, you took your case to a large readership, you establish this notion that in a sense to be an ally of Israel is to be a greater American in some sense…

    What part of advocating, supporting, justifying and/or enforcing Jewish supremacism in/and a supremacist “Jewish State” and all past and on-going related (war) crimes makes an American a “greater American”?

    If an American were to advocate, support, justify and/or enforce a form of supremacism and related (war) crimes whose victims included Jewish people, would he also be considered a “greater American” or would he hypocritically be labelled a racist (Jew-hater, anti-Semite, etc.)?

    Zio-supremacists are truly hateful and immoral people.

  13. CigarGod
    June 26, 2015, 9:35 am

    Rosen shows up and puts another brick in the wall.
    Who is hosting this Wall Building party, anyway?
    Sheesh!

  14. RockyMissouri
    June 26, 2015, 12:59 pm

    Love love love Edward Said! Is the Divan orchestra still playing..?

  15. Keith
    June 26, 2015, 4:00 pm

    PHIL- “The interchange seems to me to crystallize the risk that Jewish political life faces today: the alliance with Israel has made establishment organizations extremely conservative.”

    “Conservative?” Are you praising by faint damn? Also, these establishment organizations strongly support militarism and the empire, not an insignificant fact. In fact, one of the consequences of American Zionism was to turn Marxist Jews into empire Jews.

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