‘Six Jews sitting in the White House discussing the Palestinian state’

US Politics
on 86 Comments

Michael Oren, the former ambassador of Israel to the United States, got some attention in the last day for comments he made about U.S. Jews in positions of power. He noted the enormous influence of Jews over policymaking — Barack Obama or Joe Biden was often the only non-Jew in the room when a Palestinian state was being discussed at the White House, he said– but the American Jews were not able to fully understand Israel, in part because they are assimilating or intermarried. He called on American Jews to exhibit a greater sense of shared “peoplehood” and obligation to Israel.

Here’s a transcript of his remarks, at the 92nd Street Y on Sunday night. Interviewer Jonathan Rosen remarked that in his new book, Ally, Oren talks about all the Jews in high positions in the Obama administration, but says he is disappointed in how they show their concern for Israel. Oren said:

Yes not only the names you mention but the depth to which Jews, American Jews were involved in policymaking not just in this administration but even in the previous administration… was immense, and in my discussion of the relationship between American Jewry and the state of Israel, I talk about how the founding fathers of Zionism– and mothers of Zionism– did not anticipate the American Jewish success. It didn’t fit into their Zionist weltenschauung, which was that Jews couldn’t make it in Europe, no matter how much they assimilated… You could be the most assimilated army officer in the world, and you’re going to be accused of being a Jew at the end of the day [reference to the Dreyfus affair].

They could not foresee a situation that I encountered regularly, which is, six Jews sitting in the White House, three Israelis and three American Jews, discussing the Palestinian state. It happens all the time. Very often the only non Jewish person in the room was the vice president or the president. The American Jewish story is a huge success story which doesn’t fit into some of our deepest Zionist impulses and ideology.

Having said that, though, American Jews and American Jews particularly who are non orthodox or say themselves that they are more assimilated– many of the Jews in the administration were intermarried– would have a hard time understanding the Israeli paradigm, where you have the nation state of the Jewish people. It’s not… a religious state, but it is predicated on the notion that there is a Jewish people, and that is irrespective of where you live, whether you’re living in Washington or living in Hadera in Israel, we belong to the same people, and we should have some affinity and a better sense of understanding of one another.

Oren then went on to fault “center to leftist” American Jewish groups such as J Street that call for a two state solution, when the obvious consequences of establishing a Palestinian state, he said, would be a failed state, and Israel would have thousands of rockets and rifles aimed at its cities. He’d found it “extremely difficult” to explain this reality to American Jews who’d never had rockets fall on their houses and never put their children on school buses not knowing if they wouldn’t come back home.

He described the Jewish communities in the U.S. and in Israel as intertwined and dependent:

What do we need to understand about one another, and what do we need to expect of one another? I hope to get that conversation going…

There’s one thing we should be agreeing on. One thing. We can disagree about the peace process, we can disagree about the relationship between Netanyahu and Obama, disagree about the Iranian nuclear program. The most important thing we should agree on, is, We live in a completely unique moment of Jewish history. A moment where there are two great Jewish communities that are strong and vibrant and creative and immensely successful. Every Jew in the world today is free. Think about that. For centuries we weren’t free….

Six Jews in the White House talking about a Palestinian state, it’s an extraordinary moment, and there’s one thing we demand of one another. On this I won’t compromise. We should all be deeply profoundly endlessly grateful. Grateful.

Later Oren indicated that the gratitude should flow toward Israel from American Jews. When an audience member asked if American Jews should express their feelings about Israel, Oren said Yes, but with several caveats:

All I ask, is that these opinions be expressed with an understanding of Israeli realities, not detached from Israeli realities, and a feeling of peoplehood– and I’ll say it again, a sense of gratitude. Express it with gratitude.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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86 Responses

  1. lysias
    June 23, 2015, 10:11 am

    As a Catholic, I have increasingly become disturbed by the number of Catholic justices on the Supreme Court. Now there are six. Imagine the furious reaction there would be if the five conservative Catholic justices were to strike down Roe v. Wade. And yet it would also be wrong if they avoided striking it down merely for fear of that reaction. And that heavy majority is also going to be a problem with other issues, like Obamacare.

    Isn’t the large number of Jewish Americans having influential administration positions on I/P issues similarly problematical?

    • Mooser
      June 23, 2015, 10:50 am

      “And yet it would also be wrong if they avoided striking it down merely for fear of that reaction.”

      Because of all the other good reasons to strike it down? Sure, okay.

      • lysias
        June 23, 2015, 11:47 am

        Those five justices are conservative, remember. Whether or not you or I think it should be struck down, they may well. And they’re supposed to make their decisions on legal grounds.

      • Mooser
        June 23, 2015, 2:51 pm

        Well, if they think delineating access to medical services, and the right to medical privacy along gender lines in Constitutional, they well might.

    • hophmi
      June 23, 2015, 11:28 am

      “Isn’t the large number of Jewish Americans having influential administration positions on I/P issues similarly problematical?”

      I’m not sure exactly how Oren draws that conclusion (although, once again, when it serves your purposes, you’re willing to agree with everything your adversaries say). Susan Rice is not Jewish. Neither is Ben Rhodes. Neither is Obama. Neither is Biden. Neither was Gates. Neither was either Secretary of State. Neither is Ash Carter. So it seems to me that there are many non-Jews decision-makers involved in US-Israeli-Palestinian policymaking.

      • just
        June 23, 2015, 12:07 pm

        Sounds like you’re ‘goy’ counting, hophmi.

        wiki: “Rhodes grew up on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. He is the son of an Episcopalian father from Texas and a Jewish mother from New York.[2] “

      • lysias
        June 23, 2015, 12:24 pm

        Also, both John Kerry’s paternal grandparents were born Jewish (although they both converted to Catholicism).

      • Giles
        June 23, 2015, 12:43 pm

        “He noted the enormous influence of Jews over policymaking — Barack Obama or Joe Biden was often the only non-Jew in the room when a Palestinian state was being discussed at the White House, he said”.

        You really think Oren is lying about this, hophmi?

      • Annie Robbins
        June 23, 2015, 1:22 pm

        once again, when it serves your purposes, you’re willing to agree with everything your adversaries say

        you’ve been rolling out this commentary a lot lately. why not just say oren is not being truthful or realistic if that’s what you think? or address/counter the concept? like say ‘contrary to oren’s assertions large numbers of Jewish Americans are not having influential administration positions on I/P issues, relatively speaking’ ?

        oren has no problem with large numbers of Jewish Americans having influential positions on I/P issues, he just wants them inline, the israeli way. when he says “There’s one thing we should be agreeing on” he means that american jews should defer, agree with the israeli pov. he’s pushing the discourse rightward.

      • eljay
        June 23, 2015, 1:48 pm

        || hophmi: I’m not sure exactly how Oren draws that conclusion … ||

        …but you’re not going to label him an anti-Semite even though you would have wasted no time slapping that label on any anti-Zionist here on MW who said the same thing. Interesting.

        But, hey, maybe you’re right: Maybe Mr. Oren isn’t an anti-Semite. Maybe he’s just a liar.

      • ckg
        June 23, 2015, 2:21 pm

        The U.S. negotiating team consisted of Martin Indyk, Frank Lowenstein, David Makovsky, and Philip Gordon.

      • Giles
        June 23, 2015, 2:44 pm

        Hey hophmi. How many of those are Palestinians? They get no say in their own lives?

      • ckg
        June 23, 2015, 8:05 pm

        It’s quite possible that Oren is getting some personal digs in to Indyk and Gordon. Both Indyk and Gordon have publicly slammed the Netanyahu government.

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 10:47 am

        …and Teresa, Kerry’s wife is Jewish.
        Hophmi…that sound you hear…is the earth liquifying under your feet.

      • Rob Roy
        June 24, 2015, 1:04 pm

        I can’t understand why no one has said the obvious. If the situation of Israel/Palestine was being discussed, where were the Palestinians? There can’t be a conversation of any merit without them, of course.

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 1:46 pm

        You actually care about fairness more than winning, Rob.
        Dont let the other guys in the room…if you want it all.

      • RoHa
        June 24, 2015, 7:48 pm

        “If the situation of Israel/Palestine was being discussed, where were the Palestinians?”

        What has it of to do with them? They were’t consulted when Israel was being planned, so why drag them in now? They’ll only disrupt the proceedings with talk about “rights” and demands for tea, equality, and chocolate biscuits.

      • ckg
        June 28, 2015, 8:45 am

        And Gordon hits back at Oren in today’s Washington Post op-ed section.

  2. can of worms
    June 23, 2015, 10:26 am

    Deeply profoundly endlessly grateful. Zionists came to Palestine with euro-centric views. I am deeply grateful. Western-looking European and American Jews took the best positions, then came the Ostjuden, then the Holocaust ‘Sabonim’, below that the Iraqi Jews and Egyptians and Moroccans and Yemenites until the dark non-human animals the ‘Arabs’ (i.e., Palestinians), whose black lives didn’t matter. I am endlessly grateful. On the strength of that racism, and the racism of Europe at the time, they were able to afford their segregationism. I am deeply profoundly grateful. Nowadays open racism isn’t all that marketable. I am profoundly endlessly grateful. Now that they are having to pay out higher and higher dividends in terms of overt racism to keep Israeli segregation afloat, I am endlessly and profoundly, deeply grateful. And Israelis won’t have to deal with the truth in their own backyard, if we are only can be deeply and endlessly and profoundly grateful. Grateful.

  3. diasp0ra
    June 23, 2015, 10:37 am

    Gratitude? For what? Shouldn’t it be the other way round?

  4. Atlantaiconoclast
    June 23, 2015, 10:45 am

    yes, and it needs to be said, thanks for having the courage to say it

  5. a blah chick
    June 23, 2015, 10:47 am

    “He’d found it “extremely difficult” to explain this reality to American Jews who’d never had rockets fall on their houses and never put their children on school buses not knowing if they wouldn’t come back home.”

    He should talk before a group of Palestinan parents from Gaza or the West Bank. They know all about bombs falling on their homes or their kids coming back from school in a body bag.

    • just
      June 23, 2015, 11:27 am

      “…Salem Antez, 29, approached with a purple plastic bag and opened it, its contents terrible.

      “This is my son,” he said and nothing else, tears tracking down his face. Mohammad, another family member explained, was two. The other dead were Abed Ali, 24, and Mohammad Ibrahim, 13. Salem bent back to his task – his bag becoming a little heavier. “They hit us at 8.45pm,” an uncle said. “We had just finished our Iftar meal and were gathered here for safety. …

      …An ambulance pulled up and its door opened, revealing more dead children, two stacked together on a single stretcher, scorched and mutilated.

      They were taken to a small ward where another body already lay covered in a blanket. Once names were supplied the ruined shells of people became human: three children from the Musallem family, Mohammad, 15, Walla, 13, and Ahad, 11 – killed in their bedroom by a tank shell in the village of Al Nada Tawas, close to the Erez border crossing. …”

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/father-gathers-body-dead-son-two-plastic-bag-gaza-shelling

      • Rob Roy
        June 24, 2015, 1:08 pm

        just: and Michael Oren wants us to be grateful to Israel jews for this?

    • Citizen
      June 23, 2015, 11:41 am

      Not likely in USA; where’s the Palestinian American who gets his ring hand kissed by GOP POTUS hopefuls a la Sheldon Adelson, or Hillary’s Haim Saban?

  6. chris o
    June 23, 2015, 11:09 am

    I was really thrown by his “be grateful” mantra at the end. It seems the rest of the time he is saying, “Be very afraid. Everyone hates us. We are isolated and facing doom.” Although I guess he is saying be grateful for this anomalous moment because it will not last.

  7. Kay24
    June 23, 2015, 11:22 am

    It is ironic that these zionists from Israel sometimes find it hard to understand why any American Jewish person shows priority for his own country, the US, over Israel. It is also idiotic to hear these Israelis remind these American Jews just where their loyalties should be.
    They keep twisting arms to get that love flowing.

  8. eljay
    June 23, 2015, 11:32 am

    Mr. Oren states that Jews have “immense” influence in American policy-making, and he asserts that Jewish Americans are “the same people” as Israelis* and should therefore have an “affinity” for (loyalty to?) Israel.

    Mr. Oren sounds like an anti-Semite.
    ___________________
    (*I’d love to hear him explain how Jewish Americans are “the same people” as Arab Israelis.)

    • RoHa
      June 23, 2015, 6:55 pm

      “Mr. Oren states that Jews have “immense” influence in American policy-making … Mr. Oren sounds like an anti-Semite”

      Yep. It’s a version of the old “Jews control everything” trope. He’s a Jew hater.

      Sic ‘im, Yonah!

  9. just
    June 23, 2015, 11:41 am

    “Having said that, though, American Jews and American Jews particularly who are non orthodox or say themselves that they are more assimilated– many of the Jews in the administration were intermarried– would have a hard time understanding the Israeli paradigm,”

    Is he a member of Lehava? Sounds like a vile variant of anti- miscegenation to me…

    “where you have the nation state of the Jewish people. It’s not… a religious state, but it is predicated on the notion that there is a Jewish people, and that is irrespective of where you live, whether you’re living in Washington or living in Hadera in Israel, we belong to the same people, and we should have some affinity and a better sense of understanding of one another. ”

    And that’s Zionism loud and clear.

    • Citizen
      June 23, 2015, 11:43 am

      I guess that’s called “diversity” in USA, and recomended?

      • Mooser
        June 23, 2015, 3:08 pm

        “I guess that’s called “diversity” in USA, and recomended?”

        Why does that word, “diversity” scare people so much? I have never seen any indication that “diversity” relieves anybody of the normal obligations of citizenship in the US, or oppresses anyone who does not desire to be diverse.
        Sure, I admit I was a little nervous when the whole “diversity” thing started, but it quickly became plain that nobody would be forcing me to do any “folk dancing” of any type, so I calmed down.

      • Citizen
        June 23, 2015, 4:28 pm

        They made me square dance to hip-hop music

      • Mooser
        June 23, 2015, 7:43 pm

        “They made me square dance to hip-hop music”

        With the “MC” or “DJ” taking the place of the “caller”?

  10. Annie Robbins
    June 23, 2015, 1:08 pm

    He called on American Jews to exhibit a greater sense of shared “peoplehood” and obligation to Israel. –

    this reminds me of an interview oren gave in israel (i think last year) that we covered here as part of another article and i am sorry but i can’t find the link. oren was discussing some brainstorming between american rabbis regarding how to get more support from american jews towards israel and the shared agreement from them was that it was the hasbara of shared peoplehood that was most persuasive with american jews. so this is being rolled out with more gusto.

  11. just
    June 23, 2015, 1:55 pm

    Papa Cruz:

    “Jews and Catholics in the northeast put their alliance to the Democratic Party above their religion, U.S. Senator Ted Cruz’s father said on Saturday.

    According to TPM, Rafael Cruz told a gathering of the Palm Beach County Tea Party that “unfortunately, in the northeast, the Jews are Democrats first and Jews second. This is what has happened to a great ‘many in the Catholic Church. They are Democrats first and Catholics second.””…

    Where does allegiance to their country come in? Where does the South put its priorities? The rest of the US?

    eejit.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.662492

    • Raksha
      June 23, 2015, 7:15 pm

      Re “…Rafael Cruz told a gathering of the Palm Beach County Tea Party that “unfortunately, in the northeast, the Jews are Democrats first and Jews second.”

      Well no, not quite. most American Jews (and not only in the northeast) see themselves as human beings first and Jews second. But I have no doubt that both Rafael Cruz and his son would find that a totally foreign concept.

      • just
        June 23, 2015, 10:36 pm

        “most American Jews (and not only in the northeast) see themselves as human beings first and Jews second.”

        Thanks Raksha… I believe that about Jews, not so much about Zionists~ Jewish, Christian, or atheist.

        (btw~ thanks for sharing so elegantly on you bio)

      • bintbiba
        June 24, 2015, 9:59 am

        Thank you, Raksha for who you are.

        @just , +1

        “btw~ thanks for sharing so elegantly on you bio)”

  12. Clif Brown
    June 23, 2015, 4:25 pm

    Oren’s plea is strange. It’s as if someone who lives in a fortress is appealing to free citizens to, if they will not cross the moat into the fortress, at least support those under siege.

    Obviously, the American experience proves that no fortress is needed. Far from elevating Judaism, Israel is dragging it down by contradicting in practice the very worthy sentiments of both Jews in history and those of today.

    Far more logical than Oren’s appeal would be the reverse – open the drawbridge, put away the boiling oil and F16’s and let there be one land for all the people. The idea that Israel must have a Jewish majority, no matter what the moral cost of maintaining it, is the concrete idea that is disintegrating world Jewry and mocking the transcendent ideas of Judaism.

  13. Citizen
    June 23, 2015, 4:46 pm

    The traditionally American understanding of the meaning of the phrase e pluribus unum was that out of many states (or colonies) emerges a single nation. However, in recent years its meaning has come to suggest that out of many peoples, races, religions, languages, and ancestries has emerged a single people and nation—illustrating the concept of the melting pot.[

    What’s a melting pot or even a chunky stew when there’s a wall & 50+ discriminatory laws as Israel has?
    Yes, I know, it’s all about self-defense. How come there’s no such wall on US southern border, stuck into Mexico’s land?

  14. Keith
    June 23, 2015, 6:30 pm

    “They could not foresee a situation that I encountered regularly, which is, six Jews sitting in the White House, three Israelis and three American Jews, discussing the Palestinian state. It happens all the time. Very often the only non Jewish person in the room was the vice president or the president.”

    Were Obama or Biden required to wear a Kippah?

  15. yourstruly
    June 23, 2015, 6:39 pm

    U.S. and other non-Israeli Jews should be grateful to Israel for what? For taking over Palestine and subjugating its people, while, at the same time, claiming that it’s acting on behalf of Jews everywhere, and never mind that said claims give rise to outbursts of violent antisemitism such as what recently took place in France. Israel then exploits the antisemitism engendered by its maltreatment of Palestinians by citing such incidents as justification for the existence of a Jewish homeland and by imploring members of the so-called Jewish diaspora to “come home.” But with a homeland like Israel fewer and fewer Jewish-Americans (this one included) express any interest in migrating there, let alone being grateful for its existence.

  16. Rusty Pipes
    June 23, 2015, 6:54 pm

    American Jews clearly have been forgetting their place: Their cousins and co-religionists who have made aliyah are clearly braver, stronger, worthier people than they. For this, all of their communications about and to Israelis should be framed in gratitude. Such gratitude can be best expressed through donating to Israeli causes and lobbying their congressmembers as AIPAC urges. And even though Israeli Jews think that diaspora Jews are soft and gullible, they will deign to accept their gratuities, if not their opinions.

    But for some reason, diaspora Jews are just losing touch with those feelings of gratitude. Perhaps they can be put in touch with their guilt by accusing them of being the wicked child.

  17. italian ex-pat
    June 23, 2015, 7:29 pm

    ” Six Jews sitting in the White House . . .” Why did that initially strike me as the opening line of a joke?

    • just
      June 23, 2015, 10:31 pm

      Hit me the same way, italian ex-pat! I can’t decide on the rest of the joke though.

      • Mooser
        June 24, 2015, 12:47 pm

        Make me a third on that. I’ve been going everywhere with it (“sittin in a tree”….”walked into a bar”…) but no luck. I’d write an entire oratorio if I could get a handel on it.

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 1:39 pm

        Ha!
        There were 6 Jews on an airliner that was going down…3 Israeli’s and 3 American’s…and only 5 parachutes…

      • italian ex-pat
        June 25, 2015, 1:57 pm

        OK, I’ve got one.

        Six Jews are sitting in the White House to discuss a Palestinian state. The senior guy at the table asks: ” Now that the peace-process jig is up, do we have a plan B?”

    • Rob Roy
      June 24, 2015, 1:17 pm

      italian ex-pat…struck me that way as well.
      “Six Jews sitting in the White House. The first one says, “Thank god there’s no Palestinians here to discuss the Palestinian state. We would have to kill them. All the rest nod in agreement.”

  18. Peacekeeper
    June 23, 2015, 8:20 pm

    While Jewish Americans make up 2.2% of the population they occupy 5.3% of congressional seats. Americans, obviously, have had no problem with their loyalty, but apparently Israel does. Oren, you have just made it very difficult for our Jewish American elected officials.

  19. lonely rico
    June 23, 2015, 8:50 pm

    Learned recently that Israeli diplomats ‘are not allowed to speak’ on US campuses –
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/diplomats-campuses-official
    Truth is it seems they’re allowed to speak, but don’t feel welcome.
    Not only Israeli diplomats, but friends of Israel, questioned severely, even shouted down about the reprehensible behaviour of the zionist state, uncomfortable questions about –
    dispossession, destruction, murder and cruelty beyond belief
    that make some people feel uncomfortable.
    What might be done ?
    They could always head over to the White House, no stress, amongst friends, no awkward questions, and it seems (despite ugly rumors) the coffee is good and black.

    • RoHa
      June 23, 2015, 10:38 pm

      Obviously they should brace themselves, and learn to feel comfortable about dispossession, destruction, murder and cruelty beyond belief.

      Especially if it’s being done to someone else.

  20. just
    June 24, 2015, 8:41 am

    Beinart:

    “Who is more naive – Michael Oren or Barack Obama?
    Oren is accusing Obama of being naive and detached, but it’s the former Israeli envoy who claims West Bank Palestinians don’t have it so bad.

    … Oren declared that American Jews must oppose an Iran deal that “everybody in the Knesset agrees is emphatically bad.”

    Everybody? Thirteen of the Knesset’s 120 seats are held by Palestinian citizens of Israel (often called “Arab Israelis” by American and Israeli Jews). Earlier this year, they were elected on a platform calling “for nuclear disarmament in the Middle East, including Israel.”

    These Palestinian Knesset members, in other words, don’t think Obama’s nuclear diplomacy is too soft on Iran. They think it’s too soft on Israel, whose hundreds of nuclear weapons they consider as grave a threat to regional peace as Iran’s nuclear program. With a single phrase, Oren makes them disappear.

    Why does Oren’s comment matter? Because it shows how detached he is from Palestinians. If naivete means not understanding reality as others experience it, then few words better describe Oren’s relationship to the people with whom Israeli Jews share the land. …

    Let’s take another example. In an interview with the Jewish Journal’s Shmuel Rosner, Oren recently called Israel “one of the few democracies in the world that have never known a second of non-democratic governance.” This statement makes sense only if Palestinians didn’t exist. If they do, then Israel’s Palestinian citizens lived under military law until 1966. And to this day, millions of West Bank Palestinians live under Israeli control but lack citizenship and the right to vote for the government that dominates their existence. In other words, they’ve been living under “non-democratic governance” every second of their lives.

    But these factual errors only hint at Oren’s true detachment. His deepest naivete stems from his assumption that Israel can maintain the status quo indefinitely because Palestinians will submit indefinitely to their lack of basic rights. …

    For Netanyahu and Oren, this is what passes for realism: Pretend that Palestinians will be happy living under occupation, and bludgeon into submission those who aren’t. It’s the same kind of “realism” that people throughout history have used to justify denying others basic rights. And it rests on the contention that the oppressed will accept forms of servitude that we never would, either because their aspirations are lower or because their spirits can be more easily crushed.”…

    more @ http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.662764?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    I’ve been thinking that Oren is priming himself to become PM one day.

  21. rosross
    June 24, 2015, 8:58 am

    What a pity for the US. If those Jews were Islamic, or Hindu or disproportionately represented racially, like Chinese there would be questions asked.

  22. Boomer
    June 24, 2015, 9:35 am

    Thanks to Philip for this, it says so much about the U.S. as well as Israel. Some things that are important. Some things that are well understood by people at this site, but obscure to many others.

    It seems that Americans who are not Jews, and who object to the U.S. continuing to enable Israel’s dispossession and oppression of the Palestinians, don’t get into that room with the President or Vice President, unless they are first elected President or Vice President. To get elected they must first be nominated by a major party. To be nominated, they must be approved by AIPAC, et al.

    Oren’s words are clear enough, taken at one level. Yet if one thinks about them seriously, one becomes mired in a strange, illogical world with no way out, rather like Alice in Wonderland as illustrated by M.C. Escher, with a touch of Kafka thrown in.

    What is going on here? What does peoplehood mean, or being Jewish? What are people fighting about, and being killed for? Some interesting, confusing, and (for me) ultimately problematic meditations on the myths of race and ethnicity were provided by Julius Lester.
    http://qz.com/434350/identity-according-to-a-black-jew/

  23. RobertHenryEller
    June 24, 2015, 10:23 am

    Israelis want to run Jewish Americans the way they run the West Bank and Gaza.

    The “problem” with Jewish Americans for Israeli Zionists is not that Jewish Americans are not Orthodox, or that they are assimilated.

    The “problem” is that too many Jewish Americans take the Commandments to not lie, to not steal, to not murder, seriously.

    The “problem” is that too many Jewish Americans actually believe in and practice the teachings of Rabbi Hillel.

    The “problem” for Israeli Zionists is that too many Jewish Americans are too Jewish.

  24. RobertHenryEller
    June 24, 2015, 10:43 am

    If that now famous picture of Dylann Storm Roof sitting with his hand gun and his Confederate flag showed Roof with an Israeli flag instead, he could be the perfect little West Bank settler boy.

    Or a young Michael Oren.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/us/dylann-storm-roof-photos-website-charleston-church-shooting.html

  25. unverified__5ilf90kd
    June 24, 2015, 10:56 am

    Oren described “six Jews sitting in the White House, three Israelis and three American Jews, discussing the Palestinian state. It happens all the time. Very often the only non Jewish person in the room was the vice president or the president”.

    If I had said this last year I would have been drummed out of town as an antisemite even thought the statement is the truth. Dylan Roof, the Charleston killer, in his manifesto recently said that “if we could turn every jew blue for 24 hours, I think there would be a mass awakening”. Really not much difference in what these two outliers are saying but currently, the antisemitism canard is still used to shut people up when they try to explore these remarkable statistics.

    I am not critical of either statement. It is an obvious observation in both cases. But both statements would still be defined as antisemitic by many Jews I personally know and respect. Nonetheless, as we can see, many prominent Jews also are beginning to say that Jews are occupying a huge percentage of the most important jobs in show business, finance, law, media, medicine and academics to name but a few areas. Rather than deny this, perhaps it is a better strategy to consider celebrating this over-representation and ask why it is so remarkable and why it occurs.

    • CigarGod
      June 24, 2015, 11:11 am

      There you go.
      All the hiding, ignoring, denying, propagandizing, doesnt aid safety, but it does aid those who have other motives. Understanding trumps fear.

      • bintbiba
        June 24, 2015, 11:23 am

        @ CigarGod

        “All the hiding, ignoring, denying, propagandizing, doesnt aid safety, but it does aid those who have other motives. Understanding trumps fear.”

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/sitting-discussing-palestinian/comment-page-1#comment-776571

        “Understanding trumps fear “.

        Perfect summation, CG. Thank you !

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 11:59 am

        Thanks, Bintbiba,
        I’m just trying to evolve, here.
        You guys are helping me do that.
        I do have one shortcoming I probably won’t evolve out of.
        I love playing Whack-a-Mole with the Zio-Weasels, here.

    • catalan
      June 24, 2015, 11:17 am

      “Rather than deny this, perhaps it is a better strategy to consider celebrating this over-representation and ask why it is so remarkable and why it occurs”
      As a member of the overrepresentation (good job in government finance), my opinion on why this occurs is really simple: study when the other kids are playing and read a lot. Of course a little luck doesn’t hurt. That, and be nice to everyone, because you never know who will trip you or help you. I had one weak spot which was not taking enough risk.
      Also, it pays to develop one specific skill. Like, Phil is a good writer and savvy journalist. Thus, I am not a good debater, or public speaker, or easy company. But, I know something about numbers, math, money, and logic, that’s very valuable to society.

      • Mooser
        June 24, 2015, 7:13 pm

        “As a member of the overrepresentation (good job in government finance), my opinion on why this occurs is really simple: study when the other kids are playing and read a lot.”

        Gosh, “catalan” you ‘overrepresenter’ if only every Palestinian kid could read your advice, why, I bet the Mid-East would be a completely different place. Cut out all that fussin’ and fightin’ and hit the books, and always spread the good seed! Smile, and the world smiles with you!

  26. Ramzi Jaber
    June 24, 2015, 11:11 am

    “Six Jews sitting in the White House”. This says it all. The control, the influence, the israel-firster bias of the US zionists is right there on display.

    The zionists decry this “so-called” zionist power as non-existent and saying it is anti-semitic. Well, here is Oren saying it himself and throughout the book giving proof of the zionists that control every key aspect of American economy, finance, media, entertainment, politics, and foreign policy.

    Oren just proved with ample examples, specific names, many stories, and irrefutable facts what Mearsheimer and Walt said 8 years ago in The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.

    As I said before:
    – Massada mentality.
    – Colonial criminality.
    – Arrogant amorality.

    Thank you Oren.

    • bintbiba
      June 24, 2015, 11:19 am

      @ Ramzi Jaber,

      Very well said, Ramzi !

    • just
      June 24, 2015, 11:27 am

      “Thank you Oren.”

      I’ll add my thanks to yours, Ramzi. You’re right. If an ardent Zionist Israeli (former IOF volunteer while a US citizen, who renounced his US citizenship to serve the Zionist state) says and writes it, then it just CAN’T be anti- semitic to speak the truth.

      Perhaps that’s why some heads are exploding (Foxman’s especially)! Their game is up.

      (btw, when’s the last time you ever heard Foxman ‘care’ about Muslims?)

      • Ramzi Jaber
        June 24, 2015, 12:03 pm

        Thanks to you all as well for the unwavering support, uplifting posts, stimulating ideas, and valuable insights.

        As I think more about what Oren wrote in the papers, (I did not read the book yet. I do not intend to buy it but will read it when I get my hands on a copy.) I kept wondering WHY?? He’s not stupid. Why say all these things that prove zionist power in US, that attack Obama personally, and, I think most importantly, that so viciously attack and berate the American Jewish community. He knows the American Jewish community is the lifeblood and oxygen of the illegal zionist entity. So WHY did he Oren it??

        I can only think of one reason that makes sense to me: Put Obama on the defensive to prevent any Iran deal.

        This is what the zionists did with many other US politicians that were neutral or not totally enthralled with the zionist entity’s criminal actions. They put them on the defensive big time by labeling them anti-semitic or even “not enough pro-zionist”. Then what did these guys do, OVERCOMPENSATE even more bigger than anyone expected and start to advocate the zionist positions better than the zionists themselves.

        Here are three recent proof points:
        – Obama himself with his “unshakeable, unbreakable” commitment, ties, and bonds to the zionist entity
        – Samantha Power when she drooled to be UN Ambassador
        – Chuch Hagel who desperately wanted to become DefSec

        So attacking Obama as Oren did will force Obama to OVERCOMPENSATE to prove that he is totally and absolutely supporting the zionist entity and then the Iran deal collapses. That is WHY Oren did this IMHO.

        Let’s see if this tactic works again and Obama folds. Based on Obama’s gutless and cowardly track record, and the recent decision by the WH not to allow the UNHRC Gaza war report to move forward, my bet is that Oren will win.

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 12:09 pm

        Okay, but where is the real money in the equation?
        Where/who is the bank?

      • Ramzi Jaber
        June 24, 2015, 12:17 pm

        “btw, when’s the last time you ever heard Foxman ‘care’ about Muslims?”

        just, the answer is clearly on display b who attended the foxman farewell gala
        http://forward.com/the-assimilator/310562/abe-foxman-anti-discrimination-first-responder-honored-at-adl-gala/

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 12:24 pm

        Way to throw cold water on my high, Ramzi.
        I just read your link…I mean I had to stop at the point when Susan Rice jumped on a table and stripped down to her Zionist soul.

      • just
        June 24, 2015, 12:45 pm

        Ramzi~ gaaak!

        (No Bill and Hillary?)

        Yeah, your description of Rice is spot- on, CigarGod.

    • CigarGod
      June 24, 2015, 11:30 am

      It is a good day to be alive, Ramzi.
      However, let us remember…these are all human characteristics. Common in all humans. They exhibit themselves given the proper conditions…whether from inside, outside or created.
      Our challenge, is to talk and learn…more than react like cavemen…so history wont repeat itself again…so soon after the last time. Unless we balance this awareness with some hard work, it will.

      • Ramzi Jaber
        June 24, 2015, 12:15 pm

        “It is a good day to be alive, Ramzi.” +1

      • Ramzi Jaber
        June 24, 2015, 12:20 pm

        CigarGod “Okay, but where is the real money in the equation? Where/who is the bank?”

        In this case, is not where the real money WILL GO but where the real money WILL STAY. It will stay with the illegitimate Arab rulers and regimes, and with the zionist entity, instead of money (and power) starting to flow to Iran.

      • CigarGod
        June 24, 2015, 12:26 pm

        Yes, of course.
        Thanks.

    • RockyMissouri
      June 24, 2015, 11:38 am

      A complete disgrace!! And I denounce it.

  27. RockyMissouri
    June 24, 2015, 11:36 am

    Oren is a disgraceful human being, and damages us ALL.

  28. James Canning
    June 24, 2015, 7:19 pm

    Michael Oren apparently wants a permanent Israeli occupation of the West Bank, no matter how much damage this does to American interests in the Middle East.

  29. iResistDe4iAm
    June 25, 2015, 7:56 am

    “They could not foresee a situation that I encountered regularly, which is, six Jews sitting in the White House, three Israelis and three American Jews, discussing the Palestinian state. It happens all the time. Very often the only non Jewish person in the room was the vice president or the president.” ~ Michael Oren
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Oren dismisses the claim that “Jews control the media” as an anti-Semitic canard, but then proceeds to lend it credence by writing that it “reflects the disproportionate number – relative to their share of the U.S. population – of Jewish journalists.” He goes on to say that “the presence of so many Jews in print and on screen rarely translates into support for Israel. The opposite is often the case, as some American Jewish journalists flag their Jewishness as a credential for criticizing Israel.”
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/journalists-wieseltier-disloyalty
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    According to Michael Oren, Obama violated the US-Israeli understanding and abandoned Israel. Obama also surprised, blindsided, stunned, and failed to brief or consult Netanyahu.
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/violated-failing-netanyahu

    The Israel Lobby vehemently, categorically and unequivocally denies the existence of the Israel Lobby,
    EXCEPT when some allies of the Lobby:
    – inadvertently reveal the power of the Lobby by bragging about the sheer magnitude of its power and reach
    – inadvertently reveal the power of the Lobby by complaining about the sheer magnitude of its power and reach
    – reluctantly wield the power of the Lobby by publicly reprimanding the President of the United States

  30. traintosiberia
    June 25, 2015, 6:40 pm

    ““Critics declared that, ‘It would be obscene at any time for the president of the World Jewish Congress to lobby the president of the United States to resist policies being promoted by the government of Israel.’ When Seymour Reich, president of the Israel Policy Forum, suggested to Condi Rice that the Israelis should be pressured to reopen a Gaza Strip border crossing, the Lobby went ballistic, and Reich soon recanted, announcing that ‘the word “pressure” is not in my vocabulary when it comes to Israel.’”

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2006/03/20/the-lobby/
    Six Jews can advise only in one direction . Anything suggestive of pressure on Israel is no go area . That’s not the way it would be allowed to work.
    Media host then sanitizes this reality by saying US doesnt have leverage when it comes to Israel. Israel does what it wants .
    ( Americans have been fed the invongrous myth of power,persuasion,diplomacy on ME. Its war and sanction against Israel’s enemies and deep sigh with helpless rolling of eyes when it is Israel . No use of leverage .either total war or total submission )

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