I believe I can make a difference in my lifetime

Features
on 90 Comments

Here is the latest message in our series, “Be The Mondoweiss Megaphone.” This campaign is designed to mobilize our readers to do two things: contribute financially to help amplify the voices published in Mondoweiss, and share your view and Mondoweiss’s content more broadly to increase our influence on public debate.

Previous messages included

  • Help Mondoweiss Turn Up The Volume,” which launched the campaign and asked each of you to lend your own network and your own credibility to Mondoweiss;
  • My journey from Zionism to Palestine solidarity,” personal reflections by Mondoweiss co-editor Adam Horowitz (which prompted over 100 comments—a great example of the impact when one person discloses to others, simply and sincerely, their personal feelings and stake in justice for Palestinians);
  • Spread the Word,” in which we announced the weekly Mondoweiss newsletter and gave suggestions on how to share it with your friends; and
  • Real-World Impact,” where we offered ideas on how to boost the volume of Mondoweiss voices through daily conversations and public expressions of your views.

Every entry in this campaign should serve to build our community and its influence, and to remind you of Mondoweiss’s importance so you’ll help us raise $50,000 by July 15. Each one of you has your own reasons for visiting Mondoweiss, a unique news operation that serves an amazing community of activists and thinkers. Please donate today, and tell us what Mondoweiss means to you.

If you would like to know how donations will be used, click here to understand how dollars and cents are transformed into truth-telling.

Today we present the story of Annie Robbins, another core Mondoweiss team member. Annie’s passion for justice led her to writing and editing with us. Starting this month, Annie will have a larger role at Mondoweiss, thanks to the financial support provided by so many readers and allies in our last fundraising campaign.

It’s your turn to take on a larger role: Be the Mondoweiss megaphone by making a donation today. Your passion and generosity are what make possible every aspect of this site.

ANNIE ROBBINS

1) Did the milieu in which you grew up have any impact on your views about Israel/Palestine?

I grew up in the San Francisco bay area in the 50’s and 60’s. My family was not religious and for the most part non-political although I had an awareness my grandfather was racist. I was raised to believe everyone was equal and I was supported in my ideas, ideals and aspirations. I had no awareness of what was going on in Israel/Palestine and no reason to believe my parents did either. I think the way I was raised has had an impact on my views about Israel/Palestine because I learned to believe in myself and trust my instincts.

2) How did you get involved with journalism about Israel/Palestine?

During the run up to our invasion of Iraq I discovered the internet and blogs. I started communicating with people in the Middle East and I was impressed by the culture. I noticed that people who defended U.S. actions in Iraq and Afghanistan also defended and protected Israel, which I found curious. Around this time Israel came on my radar and into my sphere of consciousness, what I learned was very ugly and disturbing.

I became a news junkie. I began commenting on blogs because I felt an urgency to respond to the lies I was reading.

3) What keeps you going in documenting what goes on in Israel/Palestine?

I believe I can make a difference in my lifetime. I am part of a righteous movement. Our society has been brainwashed into believing the problems we face are intractable, complicated and unsolvable. They aren’t. Without mobilization we’re doomed.

I’m just here because I have a nose for news and I am a squeaky wheel. Israel/Palestine is the preeminent human rights issue of our lifetime. It has huge implications for international law and the future of humanity. That’s why I am here. Everyone reads Mondoweiss, whether they love it or otherwise we’re in the center of the media storm.

4) What is the best thing about being part of the Mondoweiss team?

It’s a privilege working with Mondoweiss, to have my voice heard and to work with so many talented and wonderful contributors. I can make a difference here. It’s an honor working with Phil and Adam, and the entire activist community blows my mind. I love watching the effects of our work as it seems as though the discourse surrounding the issue and BDS is evolving by leaps and bounds.

5) What hopes and dreams do you have for Palestine?

My hopes and dreams are that Palestine will be free, the less violence the better. I strongly believe truth is the most effective weapon there is and the more people are exposed to it, the better it is for everyone. I believe in what Martin said about justice and the arc of the moral universe. I think the next five years will be crucial for the BDS movement and I believe we will prevail.

Please support Mondoweiss today with a tax-deductible donation.

Please support Mondoweiss today with a tax-deductible donation.

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

Other posts by .


Posted In:

90 Responses

  1. Steve Grover
    July 6, 2015, 2:39 pm

    6) What hopes and dreams do you have for Israel?

    • Annie Robbins
      July 6, 2015, 7:20 pm

      i hope israel ends the occupation and becomes a place where each person is treated equally under the law. however, some say this would ‘destroy’ israel.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 7, 2015, 1:35 am

        It wouldn’t destroy Israel unless you are insisting that be done in one-state, or unless you’re insisting on the RoR.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 7, 2015, 2:26 am

        any other ‘insistings’ you care to add on before i address this allegation? what about the nationality law? palestinian citizens of israel getting their property back? palestinian citizens of israel being able to live inside israel with their spouses and families with the same rights as jewish israelis? do you really want to go there? the 60 laws. or is your mantra merely 1 state (which bds has no position on) and ROR?

      • bryan
        July 7, 2015, 3:42 am

        DS – The “destruction” of states is an interesting concept, but I can’t think of many examples where this has happened in recent history.

        Empires (British, Russian, Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, Soviet) were not so much “destroyed” as collapsed or broke up and not many people regret that fact. The social regime that dominated the segregated southern USA was not so much “destroyed” as evolved over many decades, (civil war then civil rights movement over a century later) but wonder of wonders, the confederate flag still flies over some state capitals. The Nazi regime was “destroyed” and Germany was divided, but wonder of wonders, Germany reunited and re-emerged as the economic power-house of Europe. The Apartheid regime in South Africa disappeared but to say it was “destroyed” would probably be far less true that to say that its dominant elite eventually chose to surrender their privileges in the cause of justice. The racist and theocratic regimes that rule in Jerusalem, Riyadh and Tehran will doubtless be “destroyed” or far more likely collapse or evolve at some point in the future but doubtless the states of Israel(Palestine), Saudi and Iran will persist and survive.

        The mistake you make is to equate a temporarily dominant regime with a state, a country, a territorial sovereignty, a group of peoples resident in a land. “Destroy” is a wonderful watchword for simple and neurotic minds, but, wonder of wonders, the Jewish people have survived and thrived despite claimed and ever-present existential enemies (Egyptians, Amelekites, Philistines, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Moslems, Christians etc, etc) Nothing would be easier than for Israel to pre-empt the BDS movement by renouncing the occupation, and choosing the path of peace, and your greatest enemies (Fatah, Hamas and Hizbollah) have all conceded a readiness to compromise on the RoR and accept a peaceful Israel living within its 1948 boundaries.

      • talknic
        July 7, 2015, 4:09 am

        @ DoubleStandard “It wouldn’t destroy Israel unless you are insisting that be done in one-state, or unless you’re insisting on the RoR”

        Uh? How? Jewish Israelis now far out number the non-Jewish Israelis who have a right to live in Israel.

        The remainder and majority of Palestine refugees have RoR to what remained of Palestine AFTER Israel was declared independent of Palestine.

        RoR claims to Israel are for non-Jewish Israelis under UNGA res 194 adopted in 1948. UNRWA wasn’t formed until 1949. Your drivel is propaganda based on the UNRWA figure for refugees, which has nothing to to with RoR under UNGA res 194

      • DoubleStandard
        July 7, 2015, 10:48 am

        Such is the nature of a Jewish state. As Beinart says, non-Jewish citizens of a Jewish state can never be truly equal since the state’s framework is identified with an identity that is alien to them.

        I’m OK with that. No Arab state in the Middle East treats minorities properly. It’s not a big deal if a few million Arabs have to live in a state that gives immigration preference to Jews.

        Once a peace deal is signed, a lot of these discriminatory laws would disappear anyway. There would be no objections to Arabs doing the army or national service, so they would get the same benefits as Jews who served in the army.

        @talknic

        Are you saying that only original refugees actually have the right to return?

      • Annie Robbins
        July 7, 2015, 4:53 pm

        It wouldn’t destroy Israel unless you are insisting that be done in one-state, or unless you’re insisting on the RoR…..non-Jewish citizens of a Jewish state can never be truly equal

        should we add ‘unless you’re insisting non-Jewish citizens can be truly equal in israel’ on to your response for “i hope israel ends the occupation and becomes a place where each person is treated equally under the law.”

        how does this sound to you: ‘It wouldn’t destroy Israel unless you are insisting that it be done in one-state, you’re insisting on the RoR, or unless you’re insisting palestinian citizens of Israel can ever be truly equal?

        any thing else?

      • jon s
        July 7, 2015, 5:02 pm

        Annie, I totally agree with your hopes for Israel, though I would add ” and lives in peace with it’s neighbors”.

        I do wonder about “Israel/Palestine is the preeminent human rights issue of our lifetime” seeing that it’s not the worst or bloodiest conflict in the world, not even the bloodiest conflict in the Middle East.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 7, 2015, 5:11 pm

        jon, it’s not for reasons of bloodiest-ness i say that.* norm called it “the defining moral issue of our time”. i can’t speak for him but the references i made wrt international law, i meant laws of war regarding refugees, prisoners, and israel’s annexation through conquest. does the world accept colonization as a viable movement moving forward or can we put that past us? reasons like that. there’s no other living group of refugees on the planet today who have been denied their international rights as long as palestinians. they deserve protection and the laws deserve protection.

        thanks for your comment. of course peace is nice, wonderful. but i’d settle for freedom and equality first. however it’s not up to me. but if freedom breaks out i have faith peace and stability will follow. without freedom there is no peace.

        * if that was the standard this ball could be kicked down the court forever. there are always going to be bloody conflicts and war on this planet. why should one people be denied their rights for decades? i do believe they’re first in line and should be resolved not just sooner than later… but now.

        and if “not even the bloodiest conflict in the Middle East. ” made a difference, wouldn’t it then be to israel’s domestic advantage to simply instigate wars in the ME forever? to always have something worse going on so hasbrats could say ‘what about syria’ ad nauseum forever until palestine is completely consumed. i’m probably not the only person who’s thought of that. it’s a no brainer.

      • Jackdaw
        July 8, 2015, 1:11 am

        The Middle East is the crossroads of bad ideas. Your utopian Palestine would collapse like a house of cards, same as Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Egypt, once the winds of Islamism begin to blow it’s way.

        No thank you.

      • talknic
        July 10, 2015, 8:42 am

        @ DoubleStandard “Such is the nature of a Jewish state. As Beinart says, non-Jewish citizens of a Jewish state can never be truly equal since the state’s framework is identified with an identity that is alien to them.”

        So it ain’t a democracy. Glad we got that sorted

        I’m OK with that.”

        Of course you are…

        ” No Arab state in the Middle East treats minorities properly. It’s not a big deal if a few million Arabs have to live in a state that gives immigration preference to Jews.”

        There’s already more Arab DNA in Israeli Jews than they dare admit

        By 1950 the population of Israel was estimated to be about 1,370,000

        There were approximately 156,000 non-Jewish Israeli citizens who were not dispossessed from within the borders of the territory proclaimed by the Israeli Government and recognized as Israeli on the 15th May 1948 and; there were some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states

        That’s approximately 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000. Which is about 47%. Not yet including the non-Jewish Israeli Arabs who were dispossessed by 1950 and not yet including the indigenous Arab Jews.

        Simple maths shows us the Arab population of Israel in 1948 was well in excess of 50%. A large number of Israeli Jews today are of Arabic descent. Arab DNA is deeply and inescapably embedded in the Israeli population

        “Once a peace deal is signed”

        Peace first requires withdrawal. Read the Egypt Israeli Peace Treaty. Israel was first required and agreed to withdraw from all territories sovereign to Egypt BEFORE peaceful relations were assumed

        “a lot of these discriminatory laws would disappear anyway”

        What are you taking? Israeli laws have nothing what so ever to do with a peace treaty.

        “Are you saying that only original refugees actually have the right to return?”

        I believe what I said is still there

      • inbound39
        August 10, 2015, 7:20 am

        Double Standard….Talknic has already mentioned Resolution 194. I would like to clarify Israels position on that a little further. Israel on attaining Sovereignty was offered full UN Membership in exchange for implementing Resolution 194. Israel has never honoured that agreement. Therefore given your honesty and integrity you would therefore expect Israel to step down from the UN given it is there quite obviously under false pretenses. Or even at this late stage it could honour its agreement and prove it is a nation of its Word.

    • Mooser
      July 7, 2015, 1:17 pm

      “6) What hopes and dreams do you have for Israel?”

      I always say the same prayer for Israel I say for the Czar, you know; “May God bless and keep the Czar….”

      • Mooser
        July 7, 2015, 8:37 pm

        and ends: “far away from me”. Goes for you too, Grober

      • jon s
        July 8, 2015, 12:50 am

        Annie, Are you implying that Israel is behind all the violence in the M-E? Sunnis vs.Shiites? The Syrian civil war? The rise of ISIS?Libya? Yemen?

      • Annie Robbins
        July 8, 2015, 9:29 pm

        i’m implying if “the worst or bloodiest conflict in the world” or “the bloodiest conflict in the Middle East” were the benchmark for the international community evading placing pressure (wrt sanctions, boycotts, divestment or holy moses not just non violent but violent pressure) on israel to end apartheid and their gross expansion into palestine then yes israel would indeed engage in violence in the M-E, Sunnis vs.Shiites, a Syrian civil war, the rise of ISIS, Libya, Yemen, and why stop there? add on china, russia, or the samson option. yes, i am implying israel might stop at nothing expanding their area. it’s their number one priority, not peace or stability or the safety and security of their people.

        hell yes. do i think for one minute israel is not engaged in violence in the M-E, Sunnis vs.Shiites, a Syrian civil war, the rise of ISIS, Libya, Yemen – not really. why would i think that? why would i think israel is isolationist or not sticking their nose into every part of the region jon? they’re figgin helping isis (oh, excuse me – AQ or ‘moderates’ in syria w/their little ‘hospital’ on the border – and everyone and their brother knows damn well they’d love to take out assad. so by all means pretend they are not involved in syria, or w/SA trying to take down yemen. should i go on?).

        i hope that satisfies your curiosity wrt “the worst or bloodiest conflict in the world” or “the bloodiest conflict in the Middle East”. oh no, like israel would never stoop that low! have you read a clean break? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm

        The report explained a new approach to solving Israel’s security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on “Western values.” It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy

        israel’s “security problem” could be better defined as “security problem while expanding it’s borders which (just so) happens to be its primary objective”. surprise!

        it doesn’t matter if israel is “behind” it all. what matters is if they would be, any time in the future, if it meant securing the rest of palestine (or more of the golan or up to the litani, my hunch is an overwhelming yes.

        look what they did when the world wasn’t watching them while the US invaded iraq, a war their minions begged for. they expanded the settlements.

        not.that.hard.to.figure.out if peace breaks out, they would indeed be there to keep the fitna of if served their purpose – expansion goals.

      • oldgeezer
        July 8, 2015, 1:34 am

        @jon s

        Are you suggesting that the yinon plan and the pnac agenda don’t exist?

        Are you suggesting it’s mere coincidence that we find Israel supplying assistance and air force coverage for ISIS?

        Nowhere did Annie suggest that Israel is beind it all. Are you laughably suggesting they aren’t a participant and beneficiary?

  2. bintbiba
    July 7, 2015, 3:21 am

    annie,

    You never cease to impress me !

    It was such a pleasure hearing your voice, and now we see your lovely smiling face.

    Good luck and success in all you do .
    Thank you for your enthusiasm, and your untiring efforts in pursuing truth and justice for the Palestinian people !

    • Annie Robbins
      July 7, 2015, 5:00 pm

      how sweet bintbiba. in all honesty it is an old photo. i tried to take a selfie over the weekend and it was a disaster! when my old computer konked out last december it took my photo library with it. oh well, i hope everyone forgives me. wasn’t trying to be deceptive. but it is me..a few years ago and the photo had (coincidentally) been recently scanned ;)

      • bintbiba
        July 8, 2015, 11:59 am

        annie,

        A smile is a smile is a smile….20 years from now your charming smile will still reflect you and your spirit. Beautiful .

  3. a blah chick
    July 7, 2015, 11:23 am

    DS saz: “I’m OK with that. No Arab state in the Middle East treats minorities properly. It’s not a big deal if a few million Arabs have to live in a state that gives immigration preference to Jews.”

    I just love how comfortable Zionists are with giving away OTHER people’s rights.

    • Mooser
      July 7, 2015, 1:12 pm

      The entitlement is simply astounding. A huge gaping maw of entitlement, whining “feed me” constantly.
      You would sorta think they would make some attempt to hide it? Oh well.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 7, 2015, 8:34 pm

        Yep. We’re entitled to a Jewish state. Taste the words: WE. ARE. ENTITLED. TO. A. JEWISH. STATE.

      • RoHa
        July 7, 2015, 10:11 pm

        “We’re entitled to a Jewish state”

        How so?

      • eljay
        July 7, 2015, 10:35 pm

        || DoubleStandard: … We’re entitled to a Jewish state. ||

        Except that you’re not.

        || Taste the words: WE. ARE. ENTITLED. TO. A. JEWISH. STATE. ||

        Taste the tears: Jewish people are as entitled to a supremacist “Jewish State” as are non-Jewish people to supremacist Jewish-free states – which is to say, not at all.

      • Kris
        July 8, 2015, 12:49 am

        @DS: “WE. ARE. ENTITLED. TO. A. JEWISH. STATE.

        Why/how are you entitled to a Jewish state, DS? What are the Palestinians entitled to, if anything?

      • can of worms
        July 8, 2015, 6:04 am

        It’s a story of power and entitlement. And, more to the point, it is the story of *race and class* entitlement. There was another thread (some few days old and now long buried), where, as I saw it, the writer completely erased race/class issues, as well as erasing the relations of the reproduction of class and race entitlement in Israel (which is mainly thru confinement or segregation or, as Pappe said, “deeply rooting into small spaces” those who cannot be “uprooted”). After this erasure the Israel-Palestine relation was reduced to the story of ‘trauma’. Acc. to Anabanel, “the story of Israel and the Palestinian people is the story of trauma being transmitted from one generation to the next”.

        The story that the race and class entitlement of folks like Double Standard is due to trauma makes one’s bones turn to jelly.

      • echinococcus
        July 8, 2015, 10:12 am

        can of worms,
        In addition to your explanation as race and class entitlement (where any sane person must concur at least with the first half anyway –I sure agree with both), there is also a huge misunderstanding here feeding controversy, due to the insistence of psycho-specialists in using their own trade lingo, and some of the laypeople around in imitating it.
        Trauma, in general language, is physical, period, and personal. To me as a retired ER guy it is your car accident itself. That the same word is used by your shrink for the psychological aftermath of trauma, then extended to some nightmare you may have had without incurring any physical trauma, is not helpful in talking.
        I wrote a note to Mrs Abarbanel about this misunderstanding waiting to happen. You can’t tell us that people who carry scares or other non-physical conditions, or claim to, have personally been victims of grievous bodily harm, so let’s please first agree on the terms.
        I don’t see Ms Abarbanel claiming that this non-physical condition is not cleverly manipulated as a pretext. To anyone basing it on ascertained fact, it is just say-so. None of that precludes a race and class-based explanation (the only logical one for many people, in fact.)

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2015, 11:44 am

        Seemed like a lot of double talk to avoid the fact that Zionists use child-abuse as a method of training or forming children. To psychologically traumatize grown adults isn’t so easy, but with kids, any half-way fit grown-up can apply it.

        Who the hell are they trying to kid?

    • RoHa
      July 7, 2015, 9:16 pm

      “I’m OK with that. No Arab state in the Middle East treats minorities properly. It’s not a big deal if a few million Arabs have to live in a state that gives immigration preference to Jews. ”

      Hold on. I’m confused here. Is it wrong to crticize israel because Israel is different from the other ME States and all free and democratic with sex in nightclub toilets and so on, or is it wrong to criticize Israel because it is like the other ME states?

      • DoubleStandard
        July 8, 2015, 1:33 am

        It’s not like other ME states. Are you seriously saying there is no difference between life in Israel and life in Iraq, for instance?

        I’m saying that there is a lot of injustice and inequality in the world. There is more injustice in the world than there is justice.

        On the scale of injustices, Arabs having the ability to practice their religion and work freely in a country that self-identifies as Jewish hardly even registers. A state that identifies as Jewish is naturally going to offer some perks to Jews, even if it offers full civil rights to non-Jews. But it’s a necessary historical imperative, and the Arabs are not prisoners in Israel. There’s a door.

      • Shmuel
        July 8, 2015, 2:14 am

        A state that identifies as Jewish is naturally going to offer some perks to Jews, even if it offers full civil rights to non-Jews. But it’s a necessary historical imperative, and the Arabs are not prisoners in Israel. There’s a door.

        Standard exercise:

        ‘A state that identifies as Christian is naturally going to offer some perks to Christians, even if it offers full civil rights to non-Christians. But it’s a necessary historical imperative, and the Jews are not prisoners in Christiania. There’s a door.’

      • RoHa
        July 8, 2015, 2:36 am

        So you agree it is an injustice, but you think we should ignore it.

        “But it’s a necessary historical imperative,”

        Could you explain that, please?

      • eljay
        July 8, 2015, 6:59 am

        || DoubleStandard: … A state that identifies as Jewish is naturally going to offer some perks to Jews, even if it offers full civil rights to non-Jews. But it’s a necessary historical imperative … ||

        1. There is no “necessary historical imperative” – or any other sort of imperative – for the existence of a supremacist “Jewish State”.

        2. But if a “Jewish State” simply must exist, make Jewish a bureaucratic nationality and grant it to all citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees from “Jewish State”. No need to worry about who is / is not Jewish in “Jewish State” and no need to worry about who gets / does not get “Jewish State” perks.

        (This is where Zio-supremacists – who drone endlessly on about how Jewish is so much more than a religion – it’s a tribe, culture, ethnicity, people, nation and civilization – reduce Jewish back to a religion and then deny that a “Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct.)

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2015, 10:51 pm

        1. “There is no “necessary historical imperative”

        Oh, there very much is, it’s a matter of survival. There have been, for the entire time the Jews were denied full citizenship or civil rights, a cohort, a group which thrived on the situation , because Jews being excluded puts them under the power of other Jews in the segregated Jewish community. The ’emancipation’ of Jews into full citizens deprived these people of much, and Zionism and Israel is their last shot at getting it back, well, unless they can convince their “best friends” to come through for them.

        So yes, for those who wish to parasitize on Jews or rule Jews in one way or another, Israel is indeed a historical imperative. It may be their last shot.

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 1:04 am

        eljay: . There is no “necessary historical imperative” – or any other sort of imperative – for the existence of a supremacist “Jewish State”.

        —————-

        True, but a “Jewish State” need not be a Jewish-supremacist state. It could be “Jewish” simply by dint of having a Jewish super-majority, with all the social and cultural implications that brings.

        Take Russia. Russia is a “Russian State” by dint of it’s Russian majority, and if that Russianness were ever demographically threatened–yes, “demographically threatened”– the resistance would be ferocious.

      • Kris
        July 9, 2015, 1:10 am

        @DS: “A state that identifies as Jewish is naturally going to offer some perks to Jews, even if it offers full civil rights to non-Jews. But it’s a necessary historical imperative, and the Arabs are not prisoners in Israel. There’s a door. ”

        A statement breathtaking in its arrogance and cruelty. The home invaders tell the home owners to accept unending abuse, or leave.

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 6:50 am

        || Mooser: … So yes, for those who wish to parasitize on Jews or rule Jews in one way or another, Israel is indeed a historical imperative. It may be their last shot. ||

        Good point.

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 6:50 am

        || Sibiriak: True, but a “Jewish State” need not be a Jewish-supremacist state. It could be “Jewish” simply by dint of having a Jewish super-majority, with all the social and cultural implications that brings. ||

        Perhaps it could be, but it currently isn’t and Zio-supremacists seem to have no intention of ever making it one.

        || Take Russia. Russia is a “Russian State” by dint of it’s Russian majority, and if that Russianness were ever demographically threatened–yes, “demographically threatened”– the resistance would be ferocious. ||

        I was under the impression that Russia is a Russian state because everyone is Russian with equal Russian rights. If that’s not the case, I condemn Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state.

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 7:31 am

        eljay: || Sibiriak: True, but a “Jewish State” need not be a Jewish-supremacist state. It could be “Jewish” simply by dint of having a Jewish super-majority, with all the social and cultural implications that brings. ||

        Perhaps it could be, but it currently isn’t and Zio-supremacists seem to have no intention of ever making it one.

        ——————–
        Agreed. Zio-supremacists have no intention of giving up their supremacy– by definition. They have no intention of allowing either a democratic state with a Palestinian majority, encompassing Israel/WB/Gaza, OR a separate Palestinian state with true sovereignty.

        So why would you suggest that Zio-supremacist intentions be any kind of deciding factor?

        Israel will have to be forced to accept even a modicum of justice, forced by BDS, international governmental pressure, local Palestinian resistance, legal action etc.

        I was under the impression that Russia is a Russian state because everyone is Russian with equal Russian rights. If that’s not the case…

        No. That’s not the case. Citizens of the Russian Federation have equal rights, true– but that’s not what makes it a distinctly Russian state. It’s Russian because of a super-majority Russian ethnos– a dominant group of people with a shared linguistic, religious, and cultural heritage.

        …. Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state.

        Who said it was a supremacist state? To repeat: it is a distinctly Russian state by dint of it’s Russian demographic majority, not any legally or politically entrenched supremacism.

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 8:02 am

        || Sibiriak: Agreed. Zio-supremacists have no intention of giving up their supremacy … So why would you suggest that Zio-supremacist intentions be any kind of deciding factor? ||

        Where did I say that “Zio-supremacist intentions” should be a “deciding factor”? I think the Israelis and Palestinians who want justice, accountability and equality should be the ones to make the decisions.

        || … Citizens of the Russian Federation have equal rights, true– but that’s not what makes it a distinctly Russian state. It’s Russian because of a super-majority Russian ethnos– a dominant group of people with a shared linguistic, religious, and cultural heritage. ||

        IMO, the dominant group is not relevant as long as all citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees (CIERs) are fully and equally Russian. For Israel, this would mean full and equal rights for all Israeli CIERs. For “Jewish State”, this would mean a bureaucratic citizenship of “Jewish” with full and equal rights for all “Jewish State” CIERs.

        || Who said it was a supremacist state? ||

        I don’t know who said it. I didn’t.

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 9:04 am

        eljay: Where did I say that “Zio-supremacist intentions” should be a “deciding factor”.
        ————————-

        You wrote:

        Perhaps it could be [a Jewish State with equal rights for all], but it currently isn’t and Zio-supremacists seem to have no intention of ever making it one.

        That statement cleary implies that Zio-supremacist intentions are a deciding factor in whether or not Israel could become a NON-supremacist Jewish state (Jewish super-majority; equal rights).

        ———————
        IMO, the dominant group is not relevant as long as all citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees (CIERs) are fully and equally Russian.

        It may not be relevant to you, but I assure you, it is supremely relevant to the overwhelming majority of Russians.

        —————-
        For Israel, this would mean full and equal rights for all Israeli CIERs…

        Agreed. Israel could continue to have a Jewish character by dint of a Jewish super-majority, even as it evolves into a state with full and equal rights for all citizens.

        —————–

        || Who said it was a supremacist state? || I don’t know who said it. I didn’t.

        You wrote:

        I was under the impression that Russia is a Russian state because everyone is Russian with equal Russian rights. If that’s not the case, I condemn Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state.

        That is NOT the case–yet Russia is NOT a supremacist state. Your statement erroneously omitted that possibility.
        .

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 11:22 am

        || Sibiriak: You wrote:

        Perhaps it could be [a Jewish State with equal rights for all], but it currently isn’t and Zio-supremacists seem to have no intention of ever making it one.

        That statement cleary implies that Zio-supremacist intentions are a deciding factor in whether or not Israel could become a NON-supremacist Jewish state (Jewish super-majority; equal rights). ||

        You’re right, I mis-spoke. Zio-supremacist intentions are a deciding factor (it would be foolish to suggest that they are not), but IMO they should not be the deciding factor.

        || It may not be relevant to you, but I assure you, it is supremely relevant to the overwhelming majority of Russians. ||

        Well, that’s nice.

        || Agreed. Israel could continue to have a Jewish character by dint of a Jewish super-majority, even as it evolves into a state with full and equal rights for all citizens. ||

        Agreed.

        || You wrote:

        I was under the impression that Russia is a Russian state because everyone is Russian with equal Russian rights. If that’s not the case, I condemn Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state.

        That is NOT the case–yet Russia is NOT a supremacist state. Your statement erroneously omitted that possibility. ||

        So, because…
        – I did say that Russia, as far as I know, is not a supremacist state; and
        – I did not say that Russia might become a supremacist state,
        …your conclusion is that I said that Russia is a supremacist state.

        Interesting.

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 12:21 pm

        eljay [Sibiriak:] Israel could continue to have a Jewish character by dint of a Jewish super-majority, even as it evolves into a state with full and equal rights for all citizens.

        || Agreed.
        ———————-

        That was my main point, and I’m glad we agree on it.

        …your conclusion is that I said that Russia is a supremacist state.

        No, that was not my conclusion. I was simply drawing attention to the fact that your statement logically implied that Russia was a supremacist state.

        You wrote:

        I was under the impression that Russia is a Russian state because everyone is Russian with equal Russian rights.

        If that’s not the case, I condemn Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state. (emphasis added)

        That last sentence is an if-then (a–>b) statement. The premise (“that’s not the case”) is true, therefore the conclusion logically follows, i.e. that you condemn Russia for being an ethnic-supremacist state.

        I pointed out that the Russian Federation was a distinctly Russian state by dint of its Russian super-majority (not merely because all citizens of that state had equal rights), yet nevertheless it was not a supremacist state.

        In any case, that’s a minor point. We agree on the main one, so I’ll leave it at that.

      • Mooser
        July 9, 2015, 3:02 pm

        “Good point.”

        And it’s no wonder Zionists are so grouchy and down-in-the-mouth, wouldn’t you be grouchy if you were reduced to wheedling individual Jews to make Aliyah? Having to come up with all kinds of ‘historical homeland’ bullshit, and begging Jews to come, it’s undignified! If their “best friends” hadn’t let them down, the Zionists have gotten us ‘wholesale”! At good prices in whole-country lots, too. And look at them now. Yup, I’d be grouchy too, if my “best friends” let me down on a deal like that.

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 4:23 pm

        || Sibiriak: That was my main point, and I’m glad we agree on it. ||

        Excellent. :-)

        || No, that was not my conclusion. I was simply drawing attention to the fact that your statement logically implied that Russia was a supremacist state. ||

        It did not imply that at all. My condemnation was conditional on someone invalidating my understanding that Russia is not a supremacist state. You upheld my understanding and no-one else has chimed in to invalidate it, so the conditional condemnation is voided.

        || In any case, that’s a minor point. We agree on the main one, so I’ll leave it at that. ||

        Works for me. :-)

  4. yonah fredman
    July 7, 2015, 5:07 pm

    The Israel Palestine issue is occurring in the middle east and that is the cause for its preeminence. It’s a sexy issue: Jews turned into Nazis. It’s a skittish issue: let’s count how many Jews there are in the media. And certainly I can’t judge what other issues compete with it for the title of the most outstanding issue of the day and the Palestinians deserve a better deal.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 7, 2015, 5:26 pm

      no it’s really not sexy. seriously yonah, you can do better.

      • Mooser
        July 7, 2015, 8:35 pm

        ” It’s a sexy issue: Jews turned into Nazis.”

        Yonah, please keep your erotic predilections to yourself. Other people may not find the same things you do to be erogenously stimulating.

        “skittish”
        ˈskidiSH/
        adjective
        adjective: skittish

        (of an animal, especially of a horse) excitable or easily scared.
        “a skittish chestnut mare”

      • bintbiba
        July 8, 2015, 7:45 am

        Ye gods !! !!

        If it’s sexy , then I’m Gina Lollobridgida , for heaven’s sake , DS !!!!! : – ((

    • eljay
      July 8, 2015, 7:09 am

      || y.f.: The Israel Palestine issue is occurring in the middle east and that is the cause for its preeminence. It’s a sexy issue: Jews turned into Nazis. … ||

      Zio-supremacists happily use acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews as justification for past and on-going acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews. Zio-supremacists also seem to think that Jewish people are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

      These things are morally reprehensible, not “sexy”.

      • Steve Grover
        July 8, 2015, 7:36 pm

        Hi Eljay,
        This is your friendly neighborhood Zio-Supremacist checking in. Have a great day.

      • eljay
        July 8, 2015, 10:33 pm

        || Steve Grover: Hi Eljay,
        This is your friendly neighborhood Zio-Supremacist checking in. … ||

        Zio-supremacists steal neighbourhoods. There’s nothing friendly about that.

      • oldgeezer
        July 9, 2015, 12:27 am

        @eljay

        “Zio-supremacists steal neighbourhoods. ”

        That’s not very accurate and doesn’t give them due credit.

        1. The build neighbourhoods to steal the land that they are constructed on.

        2. They raze neighbourhoods to drive the legitimate inhabitants out so that they can perform item 1.

        3. They declare neighbourhoods military zones then flip them into territory for illegal settlers so that they perform item 1.

        4. They bombard neighbourhoods in order to collectively punish the inhabitants regardless of the number innocent men, women, children and babies that they murder in the process.

        5. They flatten entire neighbourhoods just because a single enemy might live in the area regardless of the number of innocent men women, children and babies they might murder

        6. They destroy entire neighbourhoods hoping to kill one of their own soldiers if captured regardless of the number of innocent men women, children and babies they might murder

        That’s a few more. No doubt there are even more things that Israel and it’s racist zionist core does to entire neighbourhoods.

        Never underestimate the depravity and absence of humanity in zionists and their supporters

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 6:53 am

        || oldgeezer: @eljay

        “Zio-supremacists steal neighbourhoods. ”

        That’s not very accurate and doesn’t give them due credit. … ||

        I stand corrected.

      • eljay
        July 9, 2015, 11:25 am

        || Steve Grover: Eljay and oldgeezer,
        Which do you prefer? ||

        Justice, accountability and equality, universally and consistently applied.

      • inbound39
        August 10, 2015, 7:34 am

        Does not matter what Israeli/Palestinian Conflict thread you go on to,at some point you always get a Zionist proclaiming Palestinian Arabs have freedom of worship. If that is the case then why are Palestinians stopped from worshipping at Al Aqsa or disrupted and attack by settlers and or police?

    • yonah fredman
      July 8, 2015, 6:50 pm

      If the term sexy in the context of the Nazis and the Jews makes you uncomfortable, then try “easily caricatured”.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 8, 2015, 10:14 pm

        yonah, if the term ‘sexy’ in the context of torture, genocide, holocaust and palestinians makes you sadistically uncomfortable – then try: “i am one sick puppy” .

    • oldgeezer
      July 9, 2015, 12:20 am

      @yonah

      Sexy issue?

      You pathetic apologist for racial supremacy. My condolences to all who have to deal with you on a day to day basis.

      • Mooser
        July 9, 2015, 3:08 pm

        “My condolences to all who have to deal with you on a day to day basis.”

        I’d be willing to wager money that we are the only ones who have to do that. I’m pretty sure nobody else will, and we don’t have much choice.

  5. DoubleStandard
    July 7, 2015, 8:34 pm

    Evidently it is, since there is no equivalent of Mondoweiss or Electronic Intifada for any other political situation in the world.

    • Donald
      July 7, 2015, 10:36 pm

      I don’t think there is any other situation in the world where a small country practices apartheid while supported by a superpower whose politicians still echo blatantly stupid propaganda points defending it. I would say the Lobby and their Christian Zionist allies make this unique. They single out Israel for special support and praise and this has generated a reaction.

      Though that’s just part of it. Israel is also a throwback to the 19th century days of Western settler colonialism, and that has gone out of style. Again, some other situations might have a higher body count, but Israel gets a bit more attention from some for the same reason apartheid SA got it. The South African apologists made the same complaint–why single out SA when some African dictatorships had a higher internal bodycount ? (I qualified that with the phrase internal, because SA was partly responsible for some massive civil wars in its neighbors.)

      • DoubleStandard
        July 8, 2015, 1:28 am

        Come on. It’s pure coincidence that Israel just happens to be the paragon of pure evil?

        It’s anti-Semitism reincarnated for the 21st century.

        Jews have always been accused of being the greatest violators of a society’s particular moral values. When it was religion, we killed Christ. When it was science, we were racially inferior. When it was nationalism, we were impossible to assimilate.

        Now that it’s human rights and equality, the Jews are running the most racist state in the world.

        It fits the pattern so snugly. I’m surprised you aren’t persuaded, to be honest.

      • Shmuel
        July 8, 2015, 2:07 am

        When it was religion, we killed Christ.

        Accurate representation of an assertion concerning all Jews, inherently.

        When it was science, we were racially inferior.

        Accurate representation of an assertion concerning all Jews, inherently.

        When it was nationalism, we were impossible to assimilate.

        Accurate representation of an assertion concerning all Jews, inherently.

        Now that it’s human rights and equality, the Jews are running the most racist state in the world.

        Inaccurate representation (“the Jews” and “most racist”) of assertions made against some Jews — which may or may not be true, but do not logically fit in the same category as the other assertions you cite.

        It fits the pattern so snugly. I’m surprised you aren’t persuaded, to be honest.

        It doesn’t (as explained); you’re not (because the premise of your argument is anti-Jewish prejudice); and, based on the previous two, I’m not so sure about your honesty.

      • Marnie
        July 8, 2015, 2:07 am

        @DS
        “Come on. It’s pure coincidence that Israel just happens to be the paragon of pure evil?”

        Don’t be so modest. Nothing like this is a coincidence. It was methodically planned and carried out with little to no interference at all. The zionists have gotten so comfortable with this lack of interference that they’re blowing their gaskets over mere criticism and conflating it with antisemitism, which is used so often it doesn’t mean anything anymore. That takes skill DS.

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2015, 10:55 pm

        Jews have always been accused of being the greatest violators of a society’s particular moral values.”

        And since Jews have been accused, by anti-semites, of anything and everything, any accusation against Jews must be based in anti-semitism, and therefore can’t be true!!

        You just keep telling yourself that, pal. I bet you even believe it.

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 1:21 am

        DoubleStandard: It’s pure coincidence that Israel just happens to be the paragon of pure evil?

        ————–

        It’s pure coincidence that your remark is a paragon of pure straw?

  6. zaid
    July 7, 2015, 11:37 pm

    Thank you Annie.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 8, 2015, 8:55 pm

      my pleasure zaid. thank you. in our lifetime – it will happen. one has to believe to make it happen, and i do.

  7. Citizen
    July 8, 2015, 4:56 am

    Go, Annie! The creed is in the deed, the pattern of deeds and omissions. Anti-Semitism is a secular creed and so is Anti-Gentilism.

  8. Qualtrough
    July 8, 2015, 1:16 pm

    We are never going to change their minds, but one of the great things about Mondoweiss is that it provides a platform for hard core Zionists like Jackdaw, DoubleStandard, etc. to make it very clear to everyone that what they support is not a democratic state with every citizen equal under the law, but rather something more akin to the very worst the world has to offer. To their way of thinking the fact that Israel is not quite as bad as these worst case scenarios makes it all good. Absolutely invaluable, and we should all thank them for their honesty.

    • DoubleStandard
      July 8, 2015, 7:30 pm

      We do support every citizen being equal under the law. But not every single Palestinian being a citizen of Israel. All of us understand that the Zionist dream is impossible without some form of Palestinian political autonomy.

      Equality under the law is reconcilable with a state that has a Jewish character.

      A Jewish state that isn’t a true democracy is no Jewish state at all, and was not the vision of the Zionist leaders.

      However, given the way minorities are treated in Arab countries, we are not willing to forfeit control over the country we built.

      • RoHa
        July 8, 2015, 8:39 pm

        Then why not take up the Saudi peace plan?

        It is a two state solution, so you don’t have to worry about zillions of A-rabs coming to live next door and lowering the property values. It allows a fudge on the Right of Return, so that you would only get a few old people coming in. Just a token apology.

        But the Israeli government totally ignores it, and the settlements keep expanding. It looks as though the aim is to take over all Palestine and drive out as many Palestinians as inhumanly possible.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 8, 2015, 9:20 pm

        I would love nothing more than for the Saudi Peace Plan to be fully implemented. Israel disconnects from the Palestinians, and the Palestinians disconnect from Israel. Israel gets fantastic trading agreements with Europe and the standard of living becomes equal to that of the US and Britain. It’s the dream.

        Problem is: the Saudi Peace Plan, even if given in good faith, won’t last forever. The people of the region don’t believe in it, and populism is rising across the Middle East. The US-backed dictatorships can’t last forever.

        In the Israeli public’s calculus, it’s more dangerous to make the state geographically indefensible and put Ben-Gurion airport within the range of West Bank rocket fire than it is to take our chances with BDS and “delegitmization.”

        The Arab world is too unstable and sectarian for promises and commitments to be honored for a long time.

      • tokyobk
        July 8, 2015, 9:34 pm

        RoHa is right DS.

        Not all of what you say is untrue but its a giant smoke-screen with little application to the real world as-it-is.

        Israel (especially the current government) has no intentions of giving an inch. There have been multiple opportunities to create safety with a cynical nod towards justice. No nod.

      • RoHa
        July 8, 2015, 10:00 pm

        The situations was more stable when the plan was originally offered, and Israel’s actions just add to the instability.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 8, 2015, 10:16 pm

        Smoke-screen for what?

        Even if we forest the West Bank in settlements, where does that get us? The people are still there, whether we build around them or not.

        To call Zionists disconnected from reality is laughable. Finkelstein — hardly a friend of Israel — likened one-staters to a religious cult.

        The one-state solution is ridiculous when you look at Lebanon and Iraq. The Middle East is too sectarian a place for multi-ethnic societies.

      • RoHa
        July 8, 2015, 10:49 pm

        “Even if we forest the West Bank in settlements, where does that get us? The people are still there, whether we build around them or not.

        The one-state solution is ridiculous when you look at Lebanon and Iraq. ”

        So one state is out, and the best two-state offer isn’t accepted. What’s the plan, then?

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2015, 11:02 pm

        ” The Middle East is too sectarian a place for multi-ethnic societies.”

        Of course, there’s nothing like Jewish ethnicity, which unites the Ethiopian and Northern European in one “ethnicity”

        What the heck is your definition of “multi-ethnic” DS? Isn’t Judaism “multi-ethnic”?

      • Sibiriak
        July 9, 2015, 1:48 am

        DoubleStandard: I would love nothing more than for the Saudi Peace Plan to be fully implemented.
        —————

        Wow. You almost had me there. Until:

        Problem is: the Saudi Peace Plan, even if given in good faith, won’t last forever. The people of the region don’t believe in it, and populism is rising across the Middle East. The US-backed dictatorships can’t last forever.

        So, a modicum of justice isn’t to be sought because it might not bring eternal peace? (Israeli peace agreements with Egypt, Jordan etc. have lasted a very long time.)

        So, Israel would be more secure lording over millions of Palestinians in an apartheid state, provoking global outrage, compared to signing on to a peace agreement that would be backed by virtually the entire international community?

        That makes no sense at all, and is either mindless repetition of a propaganda talking point, or calculated dishonesty.

        A more honest view:

        The Jordan Valley is not essential to Israel’s security because the country is not facing a threat from the east, said former Mossad director Meir Dagan, days after a ministerial panel supported legislation to officially annex the Israeli settlements in the valley, which borders Jordan.

        “I have no problem with the political demand that the valley should be part of the State of Israel,” Dagan said in a lecture at a Kfar Saba café last week, according to Maariv. “Such a position is permissible.

        What bothers me is that it’s being depicted as some kind of security problem. There is no Iraqi army, there is no eastern front. There’s peace with Jordan. I don’t like the talk that the valley is essential to Israel’s security.”

        Dagan said citing security reasons for retaining the Jordan Valley was “manipulation.”

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567066

      • DoubleStandard
        July 9, 2015, 1:51 am

        From Israel’s POV, the best option is to wait. To wait for geopolitical shifts to remake the Middle East.

        At the moment, the status quo is safest for Israel.

      • RoHa
        July 9, 2015, 7:29 am

        During the past 67 years Israel has attacked all its neighbours, and carried out military, assassination, and intelligence operations against other ME countries. It continues to do so. It continues to spread settlements in the West Bank. It continues to oppress and dispossess the Palestinians, driving them from their homes, and slaughtering those in Gaza.

        This is not preserving a status quo ante. This is not quietly waiting for geo-political shifts to remake the Middle East.

      • inbound39
        August 10, 2015, 7:49 am

        Israel is NOT geographically indefensible. That is a Zionist lie. Israel successfully defended its new borders it declared in 1948. Since then it has attained the most modern and up to date weaponry in the Middle East and it has illegal nuclear weaponry. No-one else has nuclear weaponry in the Middle East. How is Israel now indefensible as opposed to being defensible in 1948. In Fact it was so defensible in 1967 it launched its war from Palestinian Territory.

  9. Qualtrough
    July 8, 2015, 9:47 pm

    DoubleStandard – The gift that keeps on giving.

    • Mooser
      July 9, 2015, 3:11 pm

      “DoubleStandard – The gift that keeps on giving.”

      Well, he may augment some people’s discourse, but after reading his comments I feel like I’m all minor thirds.

  10. inbound39
    August 10, 2015, 7:41 am

    If Double Standard thinks Israel will be allowed to,at some point, Lord it over the entire Middle East the Arabs have news for you. It won’t ever happen. A more likely event is Arabs will eventually get sick and tired of Israel and at a time America ceases support of Israel which under Netanyahu is well on the cards,despite the severe losses to Arabs they will force Israeli’s out of the Middle East.

Leave a Reply