A racist country with too much influence over US — Israel’s new image among Democrats

US Politics
on 105 Comments

Rightwing pro-Israel pollster Frank Luntz sounds the alarm with a survey of elite US opinion saying that 3/4 of American Democratic elites regard Israel as having too much influence, and half of them say Israel is racist. Just what we’ve been saying: criticism of Israel is gaining traction in the Democratic base and is sure to play a role in next year’s election campaigns. Hillary Clinton is surely freaking over these numbers; what’s a presidential candidate to do, will this become a tsunami.

The numbers show what everyone in the lobby fears, that Israel is becoming a partisan issue. Republicans are standing by the Jewish state, and Luntz calls the poll a “disaster.” (I wonder how much his p-o-v has distorted these numbers; he and poll sponsor, the Jewish National Fund, want to wake up the Israel lobby about American attitudes, so they will pay for even better hasbara!).

From the Times of Israel; Luntz polled 802 “members of the opinion elite” whatever that means; and describes criticism of Israel as “blatant” and “deep”:

• Asked about Israeli influence on US foreign policy, an overwhelming 76% of Democrats, as compared to 20% of Republicans, said Israel has “too much influence.”

• Asked whether Israel is a racist country, 47% of Democrats agreed it is, as opposed to 13% of Republicans. Another 21% of Democrats didn’t know or were neutral (as opposed to 12% of Republicans), and only 32% of Democrats disagreed when asked if Israel is a racist country, as opposed to 76% of Republicans. (Overall 32% of those polled said Israel is a racist country.)

• Asked whether Israel wants peace with its neighbors, while an overwhelming 88% of Republicans said it does, a far lower 48% of Democrats agreed. Another 21% of Democrats didn’t know or were neutral (as compared to 7% of Republicans). And 31% of Democrats did not think Israel wants peace (as compared to 5% of Republicans).

• Asked whether they would be more likely to vote for a local politician who supported Israel and its right to defend itself, an overwhelming 76% of Republicans said yes, but only 18% of Democrats said yes. Meanwhile, only 7% of Republicans — but 32% of Democrats — said they would be less likely to support a local politician who backed Israel.

• Asked whether they would be more likely to vote for a local politician who criticized Israeli occupation and mistreatment of Palestinians, 45% of Democrats said yes, compared to just 6% of Republicans…

Exactly: Democratic primary candidates will make the illegal settlements an issue.

Years ago Jeremy Ben-Ami of J Street said that folks were running away from the Zionism brand. Luntz offers further evidence that Zionism is a dirty word:

Luntz said the word “Zionism” could play no part in messaging designed to repair relations with US Democrats. There has to be an “end to the [use of the] word Zionism,” he said. “You can’t make the case if you use that word. If you are at Berkeley or Brown and start outlining a Zionist vision, you don’t get to make a case for Israel because they’ve already switched off.”

He also predicted that Israel is in for “a lot more trouble” from the BDS (Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions) campaign

Luntz says that a third of Democrats question how much aid the country is receiving from the U.S. and 60 percent of opinion elites don’t know what BDS– boycotts, divestment and sanctions– is. But when they find out what it is, many will support it, he says.

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105 Responses

  1. Blownaway
    July 5, 2015, 11:16 am

    On the one hand I worry that they will be able to use money and hasbara to turn perceptions around. On the other hand I am comforted that they won’t because of their supreme arrogance that they can do anything to they want. Just read the Israeli press talking about the next Gaza war as if it were fait acompli and what they need to do next time to protect their image. today’s headline Israel needs to kill fewer journalists in the next Gaza war.

  2. Krauss
    July 5, 2015, 11:34 am

    And yet the Gallup polls show record support. So what’s that about?

    From my reading, part of that is the incredible rise of Republican support which has shouldered and in some cases even extended over democratic losses.

    But even so, while Israel is losing the progressive base, the educated elites, they are not losing the country. Over the long haul, I do think educated elites matter a lot more on most issues, certainly on issues like foreign policy.

    But still, 2016 isn’t the long haul and while Bernie Sanders may get flack for it in town halls, will people decide not to vote for him, especially when the alternative is worse(Clinton)? And not just on Israel/Palestine, either.

    That’s not even counting the adage that people vote on domestic issues.

    I think the Luntz poll show what we’ve been witnessing for years already: the progressive elites are never coming back to Zionism. Will it matter? The progressive elites were against the attacks on Latin America in the 1980s as well, did that help?

    I’m ultimately optimistic about the outcome of this conflict, but I’d just caution any wild mood swings prior to 2016. Remember your post on the eve of the Israeli election, Phil? Re-read it for reference to this post.

    • DoubleStandard
      July 5, 2015, 11:57 am

      This whole “poll” is kind of strange. How exactly does the pollster define an “elite”? That much is not made clear.

      I’m not sure professors count as educated elites. Among very wealthy people who I know in the United States, Jewish and non-Jewish alike, sympathy for Israel is almost universal.

      It’s mostly among the “progressive” base that I find committed Israel-haters.

      • Marnie
        July 5, 2015, 12:55 pm

        Really? Do you question them like Lumpy did above or do you start out with friendly conversation then go for the kill?

      • diasp0ra
        July 5, 2015, 2:48 pm

        So you cast doubt on the representative validity/criteria of the participants of this poll, yet you then turn around with the old unscientific schtick of “well my friends are like that, so it must be true.”

        You squabble about what the definition of “elite” means, yet you have no problem lumping your friends (who apparently are a representative sample of all very wealthy americans) into the “very wealthy” category without providing a definition yourself where the cutoff line is.

        I’m sure the poll is much more scientifically valid than your perception of your friends.

      • Krauss
        July 5, 2015, 3:23 pm

        Marnie, is your IQ not higher than to insult people with schoolyard terms? Really? Who is the lumpy of us if that’s the case?

        Also, questioning the poll’s implications for the larger society doesn’t make me a sympathiser to Zionism, nor does it make me question the specific methodology of the poll. You don’t seem to understand this.

        Actually, you don’t come across as someone who understands a lot at all, but is more comfortable hurling epithets. I guess that’s outer limit of your comfort zone for thinking. Each to their own.

      • tree
        July 5, 2015, 5:10 pm

        Krauss,

        Also, questioning the poll’s implications for the larger society doesn’t make me a sympathiser to Zionism, nor does it make me question the specific methodology of the poll. You don’t seem to understand this.

        I suspect you don’t understand that Marnie was replying to DS, not to your comment, despite what the weird tabbing of comments here makes it look like.

        I might also suggest that berating someone for hurling epithets ia a bit less hypocritical if you can refrain from doing the same yourself. Higher brow epithets really aren’t superior to the low brow ones, despite what your comment might imply.

        That said, I do agree with your original point.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 5, 2015, 5:56 pm

        Krauss, don’t worry.

        Nobody here could possibly mistake you for a Zionist sympathizer!

        Attempting rational analysis of the facts and arriving at an undesirable conclusion does not make you sympathetic to that conclusion.

      • Donald
        July 5, 2015, 7:06 pm

        Krauss, I think “lumpy” was a reference to Luntz, or anyway it makes more sense that way.

        It even crossed my mind it could be spell correcting software at work–I’ve had a lot of very creative corrections in some of my posts and emails since I started using an iPad.

      • tree
        July 5, 2015, 7:22 pm

        I don’t think it was a spell-correcting error. I’ve seen Luntz referred to a Lumpy before, implying “Lumpy Rutherford” from the old Leave it to Beaver show – a fat teenager who was kind of a bully. An unkind moniker obviously as Luntz’s weight is totally irrelevant to his opinions and actions.

      • Mooser
        July 5, 2015, 7:36 pm

        But ol’ “Lumpy” wasn’t so bad, as I recall. When they start calling you “Eddie”, is when you should worry. (a brilliant characterization by actor Ken Osmond)

      • JWalters
        July 5, 2015, 8:39 pm

        It seems to me “Eddie” is Bill Kristol. In any case, I share Krauss’s caution optimism. I also see the potential for an escalating avalanche that can suddenly be overwhelming.

      • Giles
        July 5, 2015, 9:04 pm

        What kind of decent human being does not oppose Israel?

        Misinformed, uninformed, and propagandized from childhood people are the only ones I can think of. I suspect DoubleStandard fits all three categories

      • Elliot
        July 5, 2015, 11:08 pm

        @Double Standard – the link Phil provides defines elites as “highly educated, high income, publicly active US Democrats.” That’s got to include lots of professors and many Jews but not every upper middle class person you and I might know.

      • echinococcus
        July 6, 2015, 1:10 am

        Krauss,

        Your analysis is plausible to probable, and I am certainly not the only one here who recognizes your perfect right to be as much of an axlenotch as you want. If anyone appointed you the house censor dictating our tone, we should know it lest we inadvertently offend your Majesty.

      • WH
        July 6, 2015, 2:44 am

        An epithet is not the same as an insult (just as an issue is not the same as a problem).

    • Marnie
      July 6, 2015, 1:47 am

      Dearest Krauss – I’m unable to respond to you anywhere else but here. First off, I wasn’t responding to you at all with the “Lumpy” bit but to DoubleStandard. Anyway, thanks for reminding me to mind my manners and at the same time letting me know my IQ isn’t up to par with the other kids on the playground, or is it just you? How proud you must be! Forgive me please as I don’t understand a whole lot. Of course you must be right on this point but then again, you weren’t able to comprehend that I wasn’t addressing you at all to begin with. That said, I really won’t mind if you never respond to me again, but if you feel you must, please only insult me in the way of the superior being you obviously believe yourself to be.

  3. Peter Feld
    July 5, 2015, 11:46 am

    American voters don’t decide elections on nuances of foreign policy like the settlements. I don’t see any candidate finding success (or attempting this tack). Foreign policy only engages voters if it’s a matter of avoiding war (e.g. if politicians scotch the Iran deal they could see consequences) or taxpayer money is being wasted.

    There’s a clear opportunity to leverage Americans’ already strongly negative attitude toward foreign aid, one of the most unpopular government programs, with a progressive critique of the $4.5 billion Israel will soon be getting annually, and uses to massacre Palestinians. “Your tax dollars at work.” Someone, somewhere could upset an incumbent over this. It only needs to happen one time to strike terror into the heart of Israel.

    • DoubleStandard
      July 5, 2015, 11:52 am

      You’re delusional. Most Americans couldn’t tell Iraq from Iran. Israel has a reasonably positive image in the minds of average Americans, and a case for a few billion dollars in foreign aid can be made easily.

      They are seriously going to be upsetting a candidate over his support for foreign aid to Israel — along with 530 other members of Congress?

      It’s a good joke. I’ll give you that.

      • Donald
        July 5, 2015, 3:42 pm

        I agree that many Americans couldn’t tell Iran from Iraq, which is why I wouldn’t take their support for Israel too seriously–it is likely based on a mixture of ignorance, prejudice and propaganda.

      • diasp0ra
        July 5, 2015, 4:30 pm

        Seems according to a survey carried out in 2006, Americans don’t know where Israel is on the map either.

        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wheres-iraq-young-adults-dont-know/

        “While Israeli-Palestinian strife has been in the news for the entire lives of the respondents, 75 percent were unable to locate Israel on a map of the Middle East.”

        I seriously doubt the last decade has put a dent in those numbers, especially considering that in the same survey the majority couldn’t even point to Iraq on the map despite how topical and relevant it was at the time to the average american.

      • piotr
        July 5, 2015, 11:11 pm

        Only 53% could locate Missisipi, and 52% could locate India. Mind you, Israel is even smaller than Missisipi, and waaaaay smaller than India.

        By the way, sad news. One of the most steadfast friends of Israel, Micronesia, lost soccer game to Fiji, which is bad enough, but they manage to get largest loss in the history of international soccer games, 38 to 0. And this is because previously they lost 30 to 0 to Tahiti, and Fiji was afraid that the number of goals may decide which team will advance. I think IDF should dispatch planes providing disaster relief.

      • can of worms
        July 6, 2015, 12:42 am

        Yussef Munayyer said that in the final run you have to ask yourself “what sort of state faces an existential threat by merely respecting the human rights of those whose lives it governs? How did it come to find itself in such a predicament, and is that really the kind of state that you want to support?” (http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/munayyer-beinarts-historic). You now have to additionally ask yourself, “what kind of a state ideology is it, whose hope is that Americans are ignorant” (and racist against Muslims)? Thanks for the reminder, DS.

      • echinococcus
        July 6, 2015, 1:14 am

        piotr,

        Let’s not forget the good new, i.e. that the Independent State of the Marshall Islands is experiencing a breakdown, complete with leak, of the A-bomb era toxic waste container. That will larn them to vote right.

    • broadside
      July 5, 2015, 1:53 pm

      Double is right. Foreign aid is, in the words of Hyman Roth, “small potatoes.”

      Endless war is what the clear majority of Americans are fed up with, endless warmongering. Rail against that. That would include empire, that would include occupation, that would imply Israel. And implying, w Israel, is all you have to do…

      • Mooser
        July 5, 2015, 3:17 pm

        “Endless war is what the clear majority of Americans are fed up with, endless warmongering. Rail against that.”

        Talk bad about the brave boys and girls who volunteer to protect and defend America? Never! Say America’s soldiers are criminals? No, Sir!
        I ask you, if it was just “endless war” and “warmongering”, why would so many good American kids volunteer for service. Why would so many Officers on the General Staff devote their careers to it?

      • DoubleStandard
        July 5, 2015, 3:50 pm

        The US federal budget is how many trillions of dollars? What’s 4 billion a year in subsidies to US arms manufacturers?

        That’s all foreign aid really is: free money to the American defense industry to help Israel. It’s not a blank check for Israel to just spend however it sees fit.

        You wouldn’t know it from the intellectual elite in this country, but the average American — white and Hispanic alike — does not have a very positive view of the Arab world or of Islam.

        @broadside

        As for “empire” and US-instigated wars in the Middle East, I don’t think the broader public blames Israel for those. This is owing to the fact that the average person has much more common sense than does the average leftist elite.

      • michelle
        July 5, 2015, 6:17 pm

        .
        people are tired of being
        treated like mindless pawns
        people would like to base
        their chioce(s) on facts/truth not lies
        no one wants or needs to be lied to
        .
        leaders should present facts not views/opinions
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • Citizen
        July 5, 2015, 10:01 pm

        $4.5 Billion annually, plus interest, plus items like the extra millions given to Israel for things like Iron Dome and the $2 billion in replacement bombs for the next Gaza turkey shoot, and a few squadrons of F-35s at how much $ each? No Americans would add that up when a politician talked about alternate uses for such a wad of money to be used for things like higher education, cheaper loans, or, say, making Detroit viable, or to reduce veterans’ health care waiting periods?
        Too bad our press or media talking heads never counter the usual, “Oh, foreign aid, that’s pocket change.”

        So, “Israel has a reasonably positive image in the minds of average Americans”? Who might they be? And compared to whom? This just means the average American’s head is filled with negative images of Arabs and Muslims by our main media; I’d like to see a poll of such Americans asked to rate their opinion of Israel by comparison with any of our Western allies. To see how many believe what their own politicians constantly tell them, which is that Israel has the same values as America.

      • Kris
        July 5, 2015, 10:48 pm

        @DS: “What’s 4 billion a year in subsidies to US arms manufacturers?”

        It’s libraries closed, swimming pools closed, arts programs and after-school programs discontinued. We are constantly told that we can’t afford so many of the things that we know our children and grandchildren should have.

        $4 billion is not much if you are thinking of trillions, just as $5 is not much when you’re thinking of thousands. But when people start to worry about their finances, they often stop buying things they don’t need, like $3 cups of coffee.

        I’ve found that people are very interested when I talk about the billions of our tax dollars wasted on Israel, while kids here in the U.S. are deprived of what we used to be able to take for granted.

      • broadside
        July 6, 2015, 12:34 pm

        Moose: they’d volunteer for the same reason Pat … Tilden? did, why Rick Blaine went to Casablanca for the waters … they were misinformed.

    • Bornajoo
      July 5, 2015, 6:54 pm

      Krauss, I believe Marnie was referring to Frank Luntz as “Lumpy” (from the picture above) and was replying to Dr’s comment and not yours

      Unless you cut and paste the comment you are replying to or name the person you are replying to, this type of mix up and misunderstanding can happen very easily on the MW platform!

      • Marnie
        July 6, 2015, 12:35 am

        I thought it was obvious who Lumpy, my bad! Not everyone was privy to the TV series of the late 50s early 60s “Leave it to Beaver”. Lumpy was a friend of Wally, the Beaver’s older brother. He was a douche, doof or oaf, and that being said, seemed like a match for Mr. Frank Luntz and double standard at the same time, but much better to be called Lumpy than Eddie (as Mooser wisely said).

      • Mooser
        July 6, 2015, 5:34 pm

        “I thought it was obvious who Lumpy, my bad!”

        Well, when a guy’s got hair like the raven’s wing, a Body by Adonis, patrician arches, and toes like ten perfect shrimp of graduated sizes (from the 16-20’s who ‘go to market’, down to those little 51-60’s that ‘cry wee-wee-wee all the way home’) he tends to proud of his looks.

  4. Dan Walsh
    July 5, 2015, 12:08 pm

    @ Krauss

    “That’s not even counting the adage that people vote on domestic issues.”

    Flash! Zionism IS a domestic issue.

    Has been since the days of Ben Gurion.

    • Krauss
      July 5, 2015, 3:29 pm

      It is, but not in the mind of most Americans. That’s because people are not informed how Zionism is a driving force behind mideast wars – and how Zionism animates political donations.

      The reporting on this is slowly, but surely, starting to open up but the Fear Of Invoking Anti-Semitism is still a brake on a lot of these issues.

      That was my point: whatever the substance, what are the practical matters in terms of public opinion; is it shifting or not? Among the general population, there’s nothing to suggest it. Among small progressive elites, we’re seeing earthquakes. Inevitably, that will spread. My point was: don’t count on it in a year or even a few years from now.

      Look at an issue like gay marriage. Even today, shockingly, 40% are against it. It takes decades for a concensus to turn.

      • michelle
        July 5, 2015, 7:07 pm

        .
        for most people i don’t think it is about anti-whateverism
        i think ‘they’ believe they are accepting/following G-ds Will
        i also think they don’t have the facts or they would not see
        this false Israel as G-ds Will
        .
        i don’t think about anti-whateverism very much unless it
        is brought up by someone else
        i see such reasoning as a cover to hide the truth
        seems like if one seeks the truth one must put wrong choices under a microscope
        on the surface one would find something such as anti-whateverism
        but if one were to look deeper one would find the true reason for the
        transgression(s)
        and as a matter of course from which ‘side’ the transgression stems
        .
        example; the Salem witch trials
        cries of witch witch witch does/should not make one a witch in the ‘eyes’ of others
        even if one were known to run about saying things like ‘curse you’ to others
        .
        don’t believe everything you hear and only half of what you see
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

  5. ckg
    July 5, 2015, 12:47 pm

    “members of the opinion elite” whatever that means

    Here is an older definition from the Oct 2007 edition of San Diego magazine:

    “opinion elite” — a term coined by Luntz. It refers to folks who are college
    educated, make at least $65,000 annually, voted in the 2006 national elections
    and watch at least an hour of news per day.

    I would expect that Luntz has updated the definition.

  6. traintosiberia
    July 5, 2015, 12:52 pm

    Luntz is right. Its all about finding out the truth . Hide it. Suppress it and ignore it all in that order . In case of Republican ,try alternate universe of morality ,nationalism,and solace to all the ideological losses that could come by generating a straw man argument or putting up a scarecrow on the font yard of the same community hall or temple where the Republican get ther wisdom from people like Cheney ,Rubio,Perry,Huckabee,Santprum,Graham and above all Netanyahu.
    The straw man argument is ” they will kill us unless we kill them over there ” The scarecrow black paint is the Arab Palestine Muslim replica used to venerate Zionism while scaring the daylight out of average gaybasher,immigration hater,anti climate ,anti tax ,pro Pentagon,anti health care access moron Republican base whose intellectual vacuity gets repainted with same broad brush of anti Islam hatred very few weeks by CNN or Fox or WSJ and by the GOP presidential hopefuls.

  7. Sibiriak
    July 5, 2015, 12:53 pm

    3/4 of American Democratic [opinion] elites regard Israel as having too much influence.

    ———————-

    This is great news! In another thirty years or so, the power elite might come to that opinion as well.

  8. ckg
    July 5, 2015, 1:00 pm

    Speaking of opinion polls, the annual BBC/Globescan Country Ratings Poll is late–it previously was released June 4, 2014. In that release, before the 51-day slaughter, Israel was viewed slightly more favorably than only Iran, Pakistan, and North Korea, but less favorably than Russia.

  9. ckg
    July 5, 2015, 1:41 pm

    Hillary Clinton is surely freaking over these numbers; what’s a presidential candidate to do, will this become a tsunami.

    If she looks to her left, she may not have much to worry about. Last week, Martin O’Malley praised Harry Truman because he “led the United States to recognize Israel immediately upon her founding.” Jim Webb announced his candidacy by saying, “We will work with our NATO allies to restore stability in Europe, and with our friends in the Middle East, particularly Israel, our most stable partner and friend in the region, to reduce the cycle of violence and turmoil in that part of the world.” Bernie Sanders will just tell you to “Shut up!” That leaves Lincoln Chafee, who serves on the advisory council of J Street.

    • just
      July 5, 2015, 2:41 pm

      Good thing that Israel’s not a NATO member, isn’t it?

      Israel is entirely unstable and is nobody’s “friend”.

      • DoubleStandard
        July 5, 2015, 3:51 pm

        Israel is friends with whomever can help it, and with whomever it can help.

        It is a normal country like any other, with interests, needs, and goals.

      • Keith
        July 5, 2015, 5:20 pm

        JUST- “Good thing that Israel’s not a NATO member, isn’t it?”

        Israel and NATO have close ties (as one would expect) and cooperate closely. NATO (the empire’s foreign mercenary force) has cooperative agreements with virtually all of the nations surrounding the Mediterranean (a NATO lake), and is more involved in the regional conflicts than most are aware. There are powerful forces inside Israel that would like to join NATO. A couple of quotes and links.

        “Israel is already involved in covert operations and non-conventional warfare in liaison with the US and NATO.

        This agreement is of particular significance because it deepens the Israel-NATO relationship beyond the so-called “Mediterranean Dialogue”. (Michel Chossudovsky)
        http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-a-de-facto-member-of-nato/5325890

        “Decision-makers ought to consider devising a new security architecture, one that would deter Iran and guarantee Israel’s long-term survival. A radical alternative to war is required – one that would make Israel a member of NATO, protected by the “one-for-all, all-for-one” policy of the 28-member alliance.” (Haaretz)
        http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/bring-israel-into-nato-1.461868

      • ckg
        July 5, 2015, 11:07 pm

        NATO’s expansion is intended for nations “free, united in peace, democracy and common values.” That would preclude Israel on every count.

      • amigo
        July 6, 2015, 5:55 am

        “Israel is friends with whomever can help it, and with whomever it can help.”DS

        Should read!.

        “Israel is friends with whomever can help it,”.

        “It is a normal country like any other, with interests, needs, and goals.” DS

        No, normal countries do not steal their neighbour,s land and oppress and slaughter them in the thousands.

        Normal countries obey international law.

        Normal countries do not have 50 plus discriminatory laws designed to favour a portion of it,s citizens at the expense of the other 20%.

        Normal countries do not illegally board the ships of sovereign nations in international waters and arrest and abuse the ships passengers and transport them against their will to a port they do not wish to go.That is the action of a nation of pirates and thieves.

        Normal countries are respected and admired.In last years BBC poll , (just prior to the so called Operation protective edge , Israel came in second least like or trusted , just behind Pakistan and Iran and North Korea.Well done and look for having the number one spot in the poll that is due shortly.

        Normal , my posterior.

      • catalan
        July 6, 2015, 10:42 am

        “Normal countries are respected and admired.In last years BBC poll – ” amigo
        I don’t know about the bbc poll but Israel is ahead of France, Austria, Belgium, and Luxembourg on the human development index.
        Then again, Teva is the largest generic drug manufacturer in the world, so they probably use the medicines of the country they so hate. Perhaps you can pay out of pocket for brand name meds next time you go to the pharmacy, you know, in solidarity.

      • tree
        July 6, 2015, 11:34 am

        Perhaps you can pay out of pocket for brand name meds next time you go to the pharmacy, you know, in solidarity.

        You know, catalan, for someone who claims no interest in or connection to Israel you have a propensity to mimic the hasbara tribe in touting Israeli goods as indispensable. And here you are claiming that the only alternative to Teva is to buy brand name drugs, when Teva’s market share of the generic drug market is only 12.2%, (just slightly ahead of Novartis at 11.5%) despite Teva being the largest. There are clearly other generic options. I thought you said you were brilliant at math. You flunked this one.

        http://www.statista.com/statistics/314595/leading-global-generic-drug-producers-by-market-share/

      • amigo
        July 6, 2015, 11:57 am

        “Perhaps you can pay out of pocket for brand name meds next time you go to the pharmacy, you know, in solidarity.” catalan.

        Why , will I get them free if I buy Israeli meds.

        Go back to work catalan.The American taxpayer would not be pleased if they knew you are using their hard earned taxes to finance Israeli propagandists .They already give Israel billions in handouts and have since 1949.

        If you want to spend the American taxpayers money doing something productive , read the following .

        “A Conservative Estimate of Total U.S. Direct Aid to Israel: More Than $130 Billion” wrmea.

        http://www.wrmea.org/2013-october-november/congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-u.s.-direct-aid-to-israel-more-than-$130-billion.html

      • catalan
        July 6, 2015, 12:45 pm

        “A Conservative Estimate of Total U.S. Direct Aid to Israel: More Than $130 Billion” amigo
        It’s nothing. Peanuts. America has been running trillion dollar deficits for years and is projected to do so again in 2-3 years. That’s more than a thousand billion – per year. 80 percent of that is social security, Medicare, and defense. 3 billion a year is an accounting error for the 6-7 trillion U.S. Federal budget. If you count local government debt and unfunded pension and social security liabilities, the U.S. debt is so enormous that it pretty much makes the whole global economy a pyramid scheme. However, the U.S. will devalue its currency gradually and the bill will be paid by the creditors.
        The bottom line is that all US money is essentially fake money, borrowed from creditors who know they cannot possibly get it back but have no other choice. So 3 billion is not worth 5 minutes of the president’s time. It’s like Warren Buffet spending time to determine where to get his coffee.

      • amigo
        July 6, 2015, 2:15 pm

        “It’s nothing. Peanuts. America has been running trillion dollar deficits for years and is projected to do so again in 2-3 years. – catalan
        See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/influence-israels-democrats#sthash.Fn1xE0y9.dpuf

        So you wont mind if the US government quits giving peanuts to the so called miracle of the middle east .

        Btw, compare those figures to Israel,s economy and the picture looks somewhat different , eh einstein.Nice try at diversion.Typical troll tactic and thanks for further substantiating tree,s post above re your self declared disinterest in Israel.

    • Donald
      July 5, 2015, 4:07 pm

      I read that Webb announcement the other day and wondered whether his fan club here had seen it. Not that he has much of a chance anyway–he can grovel to the Lobby all he wants for all the good it will do him.

      • Citizen
        July 5, 2015, 10:21 pm

        I hadn’t seen it; well, I was a fan… OTOH, who can avoid kissing Israel and have even a faint chance at getting elected? If Obama couldn’t do anything about Israel, who could?

      • ckg
        July 5, 2015, 11:36 pm

        And Webb’s still not going to get any of Haim Saban’s cash. That’s all for Hillary.

      • echinococcus
        July 6, 2015, 1:55 am

        ckg,

        No matter what some learned rabbis say, the world is round and 18 months is a long time in US history. If Webb or Sanders seem to pick up speed, of course they’ll pick up Saban $$. It’s not as if they were critics of Zionism…

    • ckg
      July 6, 2015, 3:51 pm

      Hillary Clinton is surely freaking over these numbers

      From Politico:

      Hillary Clinton has penned a letter to Israeli-born mega-donor Haim Saban expressing her strong and unequivocal support for Israel in the face of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanction movement, known as “BDS.”

      “I know you agree that we need to make countering BDS a priority,” she writes, asking for aid working “across party lines” to “fight back against further attempts to isolate and delegitimize Israel.”

      BDS, Clinton writes, “seeks to punish Israel and dictate how the Israelis and Palestinians should resolve the core issues of their conflict. This is not the path to peace.”

      Clinton says she is also concerned by comparisons of Israel to South African apartheid. “Israel is a vibrant democracy in a region dominated by autocracy, and it faces existential threats to its survival,” she writes. “Particularly at a time when anti-Semitism is on the rise across the world — especially in Europe — we need to repudiate forceful efforts to malign and undermine Israel and the Jewish people.”

      Got that? Clinton says BDS and apartheid comparisons undermine the Jewish people at a time when anti-Semitism is on the rise.

  10. aloeste
    July 5, 2015, 3:34 pm

    here’s the reality . democrats are leftists , minorities , PC etc. jews vote for them for the socialist welfare state. young jews are anti-zionist like all other leftists. Orthodox jews, [even most anti-zionist ones] will not vote to hurt israel, but you already new that Orthodox jews are your enemy –because you hate both Israel and G-d. nothing new . but here’s the deal. democrats/minorities etc are big city folk. the leftist area of the map is a tiny portion of the US area map. remember the hinterland, between your leftist bastions? christian , pro-zionist—— more millions of them than your minions. and that means , what 300 or so House members?
    hard to change US laws with that equation…. only the electoral college works in your favor….

    • Mooser
      July 5, 2015, 7:41 pm

      “Orthodox jews, [even most anti-zionist ones] will not vote to hurt israel, but you already new that Orthodox jews are your enemy –because you hate both Israel and G-d. nothing new .”

      Yup, all the Zionists are singling out the Orthodox to take the hit. What ever happened to tribal unity?

      • piotr
        July 5, 2015, 11:33 pm

        Mooser, this guy is too incoherent even to be a troll. Most people who comment on such issues would not that the size of the “leftist area” does not matter much, it is still one citizen, one vote, not one deer one vote, or 20 woodchuck one vote.

      • Mooser
        July 6, 2015, 11:58 am

        “Mooser, this guy is too incoherent even to be a troll.”

        “Piotr” out of all the incoherence, one thing is loud and clear: It looks like the Zionists are setting up the Orthodox to take the hit. Everybody is singling out the Orthodox.

        Oh well, they, the Orthodox, took their shot, and will just have to bear the consequences if the rest of us turn on them. They are, after all, playing for large stakes. You can win big, or lose pretty decisively in the game they’re playing.

  11. DoubleStandard
    July 5, 2015, 4:04 pm

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/poaid.html

    From the looks of it, the public has been against foreign aid to Israel for 3 decades now. Why shouldn’t they be? Why should US tax money be handed over to another country (not just Israel, btw)?

    Public opinion isn’t the only thing that dictates foreign policy. The people in Congress and the people in the State Department understand the benefits of foreign aid to Israel, even if the general public is reflexively against it.

    • traintosiberia
      July 5, 2015, 5:58 pm

      What’s be the benefit of the aid to Israel Egypt,or Jordan?
      BTW ,aid to African countries or Latin America make sense. Per Michael Hudson( and an article in British Medical Journal in 1994) aid to 3 rd world actually come back to US treasury with good return both on the capital and on interests .
      Egypt and Jordan buy US military gears that help Defense and train soldiers who control the local.
      What about Israel?

      • Citizen
        July 5, 2015, 10:27 pm

        I guess aid to Israel benefits MIC; yet 25% of that aid directly subsidizes Israel’s own MIC–direct competition against the US MIC. How explain that? No other country has such an arrangement. Actually, the US MIC could make lots more profit if US sold arms at arms length to Israel as US does with Saudi Arabia. Would be nice to end Israel’s ignoring of US patents and reverse-engineering of our stuff and selling to any takers…

  12. Kay24
    July 5, 2015, 5:09 pm

    When the person who wrote the handbook for hasbara, and is a strong supporter of Israel, puts out a poll like this, you have got to wonder what the ulterior motives are, and there could be so many.

    http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2009/07/10/the-israel-projects-secret-hasbara-handbook-exposed/

  13. hophmi
    July 5, 2015, 5:36 pm

    It’ll confirm what the community has known for awhile, and has already begun to respond to, and it will set off some alarm bells. But it’s also easy to over read polls like this. First of all, progressive elites carry little weight in the country, whomever they are. They don’t have great power in the halls of Congress. But the question for you people is whether support is building for your cause, not whether it’s diminishing for Israel’s, for which other polling shows wide public supporter. And right now, I don’t see building support for your cause. That’s the outcome of your strategy, which has been wholly negative.

    • JWalters
      July 5, 2015, 8:52 pm

      “But the question for you people is whether support is building for your cause, not whether it’s diminishing for Israel’s”

      Since these two causes are polar opposites, increasing support for one is necessarily decreasing support for the other. This is inevitable in the physics and logic of the situation.

      right now, I don’t see building support for your cause.”

      There is plenty of evidence that support is building for this cause, much of it reported on this website (which I assume you read).

      In this post you demonstrate conclusively that your arguments are not in touch with reality. One statement is straight out of Alice in Wonderland, and the second demonstrates an abysmal ignorance of current events.

      The fictional cover story is unraveling. People are changing their minds as they learn the actual facts.

      • hophmi
        July 5, 2015, 10:52 pm

        No, you’re wrong about that; criticism of one does not connote support for the other. Very, very wrong about that. That’s why you haven’t really moved the public opinion needle. So you feel all big and strong because you have “Democratic elites”? You think these people will vote on the basis of this issue in an election? You’re fooling yourself, big time.

        I think Luntz is being alarmist about aid. Foreign aid is not vulnerable to public opinion swings; if that were true, we’d have stopped giving aid to Egypt a long time ago. We give aid to Israel because we have one of closest defense relationships with them in the world.

      • michelle
        July 5, 2015, 11:46 pm

        .
        Hello hophmi
        i hope you are well today
        m
        .
        since when/why does America need this defense
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • JWalters
        July 6, 2015, 4:16 am

        I agree that in the abstract “criticism of one does not connote support for the other”. But in this particular case, criticism of Israel’s policies is based on support for Palestinians getting justice. (And the reason support for Palestinian justice leads to criticism of Israeli policies, is because Israeli policies oppress the Palestinians to a degree that is illegal in every legal system except Israel’s tribal legend.)

        As for Americans voting on this in an election, I’d say it will happen. When is harder to say. But we just saw the Confederate flag suddenly swept away by the changing currents of public awareness. If one’s case depends upon hiding information, as Israel’s most certainly does, you’re swimming upstream in the internet age.

        We’re not talking about a mere public mood swing. We’re talking about an understanding shift, as people learn the facts and shift from being ignorant to being informed. The USS Liberty coverup, for example, is becoming increasingly well-known.
        https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/04/still-waiting-for-uss-libertys-truth/

        If some more recent Israeli betrayal were to come to light, the fact dam could burst open on a story the public would not ignore. The public’s understanding could completely change almost overnight.

        The Israel-U.S. defense industry is also an international MIC boondoggle, causing conflict and profiting from it.

    • Donald
      July 5, 2015, 9:03 pm

      Doublestandard up thread asked a good question–who are the elites Luntz was polling? How did he single them out? Are they well-informed people on the subject? What are their beliefs on other subjects? But anyway, I think all of us on both sides would be interested in finding out.

      • tree
        July 5, 2015, 9:44 pm

        I think ckg answered that question upthread:

        “opinion elite” — a term coined by Luntz. It refers to folks who are college educated, make at least $65,000 annually, voted in the 2006 national elections and watch at least an hour of news per day. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/influence-israels-democrats#comment-149158

        No doubt updated with an increase in annual income and voting in more recent elections. The most heartening part of the poll is this:

        He also predicted that Israel is in for “a lot more trouble” from the BDS (Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions) campaign. Once they had been informed about the BDS campaign, 19% of respondents supported it — 31% of Democrats and 3% of Republicans. And, stressed Luntz, 60% of America’s opinion elites said they were not familiar with BDS. “Israel is already having trouble with BDS, and Americans don’t even know what it means. Can you imagine how bad it will get?”

        He also foresaw a looming battle in the US over foreign aid to Israel. Some 33% of Democrats and 22% of Republicans, his poll found, were upset that “Israel gets billions and billions of dollars in funding from the US government that should be going to the American people.”

        From Phil’s link to the Times of Israel.

      • echinococcus
        July 6, 2015, 1:40 am

        It refers to folks who are college educated, make at least $65,000 annually, voted in the 2006 national elections and watch at least an hour of news per day

        There you have it; Lumpy’s definition of “elite” includes brainwashing by one hour of TV “news”. Tells us a lot, thank you.

    • DaBakr
      July 5, 2015, 11:41 pm

      maybe they should do a companion poll to find out how many Jews that are ‘educated high earners and politically interested if not active’ are fleeing the Democratic Party and registering as Republicans. Some studies show this in droves. Bernie Sanders is no ‘intellectual elitist’ either. (though I personally like the guy and could only wish he had the moxy to beat Hilary.

      But afaict -the poll did not include any references to the shrinking pool of Jewish Democrats and the growth of republican Jews. The sample was approx. 800. I wouldn’t necessarily dispute the poll but it could be an important factor that while many Democrats are abandoning Israel the % of pro-Israeli Americans is basically the same high figure its always been.

      I also think PW and his ‘crew’ are underestimating the mood of not only the US but Israel and other industrialized nations where ‘intellectualism’ is being scoffed at criticized and minimized by a growing amount of the ‘average citizen’

      The articles that pointed this trend out were not actually pro-Zionist and were warning of the similar trend that preceded ww2. But evidently-the opinions and influence of the Democratic American ‘elite’ wealthy are not nearly as influential or respected as in the past. Populism , Common sense, pragmatism and other trends are growing while the left-wing Democratic elites are doing the opposite.

      • amigo
        July 6, 2015, 4:49 am

        “maybe they should do a companion poll to find out how many Jews that are ‘educated high earners and politically interested if not active’ are fleeing the Democratic Party and registering as Republicans. Some studies show this in droves.” dabakr

        I thought only “Arabs” moved in droves.

        Link please.

        Sharing is caring but of course zionists don,t do sharing , unless it involves someone else’s land,property or money shared amongst themselves.

        You know the drill here.To be taken seriously , you should back your claim,s with “credible” links.That excludes , CAMERA,MEMRI and other such zionist propaganda sites.

  14. traintosiberia
    July 5, 2015, 6:11 pm

    Republican faith in Israel is not a edifice built overnight . It is built on decades of lies peddled by
    Scofield Bible,Texan Mega Church,Christian Evangelic who ironically survive today on those lies . They have been rejected or defanged by manufactured consensus . They can’t come to TV and influence their views on LGBT,abortion,flag, school prayer,Christmas celebration on public places or fight for English .They can’t do anything about Sunday church attendance . They will be ridiculed ,ignored,or shouted down. Like a survivalist ,they have moved to the caves of the Patriarch in Israel fighting for last holdout . They are nothing but the appendage of the Zionist . Judaization
    is complete . Nothing left . But the displaced anger on immigrant ,Muslim,and Russia offer badly needed outlet to these deranged . Republican Party is their vehicle to express that suppressed hostility . The party allows them the distant outlet and forces them ignore the threat within

  15. piotr
    July 5, 2015, 7:00 pm

    As ulterior motives of Frank Luntz are concerned, I guess GOP would like to have a lock on Jewish votes and Jewish political donations. However, they guy seems a professional, and I do not think that the results are manipulated.

    The swing from bipartisan support to GOP support is not a good news for Israeli elite. GOP is a reactionary party in the most literal sense: they organize their message in the form of wedge issues which constitute reaction to change. Almost every one of those issues waned in popularity, but this is not stopping GOP, they simply go for another one. Several election cycle ago, opposition to gay marriage was the centerpiece of GOP campaigns, and so was the readiness to apply any torture necessary to the “worst of the worst”. To be more precise, the latter issue had nice contours, as it is often the case with wedge issues. As Democrats tended to say things against water boarding, GOP did not defend the practices like hanging the suspect on his hands for days and kicking until the poor chap expires, NOBODY talked about that, but they stoutly objected to abandoning “almost benign” water boarding. Fast forward, and nobody really urges to renew and expand torture programs, and opposition to gay marriage is moved to sotto voce.

    Support of Israel, be it nice or naughty reaches the popularity of fan-fen therapy for excessive weight. (OMG! it was fen-phen therapy, so popular and now hard to remember). I recall when GOP nominee, certain Mitt Romney, promised to base his Middle East policies on the advise obtained in phone calls to Israeli Prime Minister, thus nearly avoiding the pressure to elucidate details. But he was most clear on his wish to bomb Iran. Needless to say, the results where underwhelming. Apparently, too many independent voters preferred a president who has his own opinions too, and who is not chomping at the bit to spend another trillion dollars on another war.

    To have a better idea about the results of the next Presidential vote, I would commission a poll with that question: do you prefer bumbling foreign policy, or a scary one?

    ===

    I just recalled a not-so-succesful GOP wedge issue. A candidate for governor of California offered this choice: do you prefer progress and investments that provide jobs and increase the value of your real estate, or would you cut it down to the benefit of some weird creatures? As the example of the latter, he chose kangaroo rats. He lost. And I do not see campaigns against kangaroo rats anymore.

    • tree
      July 5, 2015, 7:07 pm

      I would commission a poll with that question: do you prefer bumbling foreign policy, or a scary one?

      Haven’t we had both for the last few decades? And unfortunately I don’t see a future with much of a choice either.

  16. jimby
    July 5, 2015, 7:19 pm

    I can easily imagine that Frank Luntz manipulated the results to scare lovers of Israel into action.

    • Citizen
      July 5, 2015, 10:39 pm

      If you’ve ever seen one of Luntz’s little group poll Q & A discussions on Fox, you know he’s constantly manipulating; I’m sure those questioned were screened throughly before final selection. Thus, it does seem he’s working to scare up more opponents of Israel’s sliding image.

    • DaBakr
      July 5, 2015, 11:55 pm

      @jy

      I – a “lover of Israel” and pro-Zionist had the same feeling when I read Lutz interpretations.
      there is something-hard to put a finger on-that seems off. but I wouldn’t dispute the general direction the poll points to as it seems quite obvious

      • Mooser
        July 6, 2015, 5:45 pm

        “I – a “lover of Israel””

        Yes, Dabakr, you really are. You are doing your best to f–k the place.

  17. Ismail
    July 5, 2015, 8:20 pm

    I fear that this tilt away from Zionism is actually a tilt away from Netanyahu, whose bald mendacity and coarse disregard for niceties, as much as his policies, turn away liberal elites.

    Take a smoother operator like Lapid or Shavit, whose commitments to Zionism’s principles are similar enough to Netanyahu’s, and watch the tide turn.

    Articulate constitutional lawyer Obama, with his alluring spouse committed to better nutrition for poor kids (while her hubby promotes ghastly agricultural policies), looked so much better then failed oilman Bush, who could barely string a sentence together.

    Looking at Obama’s record, though – punishing whistle-blowers, TPP, more renditions, wars all over the place – and maybe the differences aren’t so stark after all.

    The Israelis wise up and elect a palatable Zionist whose policies are largely indistinguishable from the current ghoul in charge, you’ll see this tidal wave of opposition turn to gentlest ripple, lapping up to the shore with less force than a baby’s sigh.

    • piotr
      July 5, 2015, 11:01 pm

      I think that prospects of “Israelis wising up” are dim in the next few years. As Netanyahu correctly observed, Israel is the only place where Jews can be proud. Settlement freezes, and even negotiations were from time to time you have to meet Fakestinians and Hofjuden are all blows to pride and dignity. So here comes a handsome pair of “wiser leaders”, Hertzog and Livni, and they solemnly promise to do exactly same thing, but more politely and more effectively (we will charm Americans soooo much that they will cheerfully cooperate in whacking Iran really well), this whole thing made no sense. So instead of Foreign Ministry you get Ministry in Charge of Insulting the Furriners or Explaining the Infidels the Error of Their Ways.

    • DaBakr
      July 6, 2015, 12:28 am

      @Isml

      While probably having polar opposite views of Israel I completely agree with your comment-especially about the ‘constitutional scholar’ Obama, and the way you sarcastically pin down the ‘role’Michele plays. An I think you are correct that these so-called “intellectuals” are really just as mediocre as the ‘unwashed masses’ of their fellow citizens and simply have a personality problem with Netanyahu and another more ‘accommodating ‘ voice would absolutely would effect US left-wing opinion to more positive. While we may possess wildly different opinions on how the I/P conflict could be settled in finality I can still appreciate your fine sense of sarcastic cynicism and friendly by pessimistic attitude. I very much identify with these 2 traits

      I still think many ‘intellectual elites’ and maybe just plain old hard-working, highly educated and wealthy doctors, lawyers and businessmen who are not so-called ‘intellectuals’ and/or ‘elitists’ who are leaving the democrat party in large numbers and registering republican.

  18. Dan Walsh
    July 5, 2015, 11:30 pm

    @ Krauss

    “The reporting on this is slowly, but surely, starting to open up but the Fear Of Invoking Anti-Semitism is still a brake on a lot of these issues.

    That was my point: whatever the substance, what are the practical matters in terms of public opinion; is it shifting or not? Among the general population, there’s nothing to suggest it.”

    My response:

    Do you have any empirical data for your assertion that “Among the general population, there’s nothing to suggest it”? In my research I track the design, publication and dissemination of the poster art of Palestine solidarity and I can say with no fear of being contradicted that there is PLENTY of evidence that the FOIAS syndrome is evaporating. My evidence is the sheer number and diversity of posters being published on Palestine-related subjects, including Zionism. See:

    http://www.palestineposterproject.org/search/site/sightings

    Ten, or even five years ago this outpouring of art (and by extension speech) would have been unthinkable. This data differs markedly from Luntz’s approach in that it does not limit participation to “elites”: rather, it tracks what people are actually saying and doing.

    The charge of antisemitism was functional for Zionism only so long as it resulted in an apology, retraction, cancellation of some other act of contrition and an immediate return to the status quo ante. Such fear-based approaches only work for a given time and ultimately people push back. Many of the posters that address/challenge the charge of antisemitism at the above link were produced by Jewish or Israeli artists which has had the effect of eviscerating the charge since if it is not be antisemitic for an Israeli to use the symbol of the Israeli flag, for example, to condemn Israel/Zionism then it cannot ratioanally be antisemitic for Others to do the same thing. Zionism has lost the use of the FOIAS except, in my opinion, among the “elites”. Time will tell.

    • Mooser
      July 6, 2015, 5:48 pm

      “In my research I track…”

      Thanks, Dan Walsh! Very interesting! Thanks.

  19. Kris
    July 6, 2015, 1:32 am

    Only slightly off-topic, since we are discussing how U.S. public opinion of Israel is changing: former CIA analyst Ray McGovern’s excellent article about the new interest being taken in Israel’s murderous 1967 attack on the USS Liberty after so many years of official cover-ups and silence. http://commondreams.org/views/2015/07/05/still-waiting-uss-libertys-truth

    From the article:

    There are some glimmers of hope.

    –The annual ceremony on June 8 to honor Liberty crew killed that day has typically been ignored by Navy brass. This year was different. Three senior active duty Navy officers came to pay their respects. They were led by Rear Admiral Nancy A. Norton, Director, Warfare Integration Directorate, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations.

    It struck others, as well as me, not only that her presence betokened more interest on the part of the Navy in righting this wrong, but that the admiral seemed genuinely interested herself in digging into what happened and what might be done at this point to properly acknowledge what happened.

    –The current chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Devin Nunes, R- California, is one of the few politicians who knows – and cares – about the attack on the Liberty. Congressman Nunes took the initiative to facilitate the awarding of a Silver Star to Terry Halbardier, the seaman from Texas who did what was necessary to save what remained of the crew and ship. He had to slosh through a lake of napalm and dodge Israeli strafing of the deck to hook up the cable needed to broadcast the SOS.

    Halbardier was finally honored on May 27, 2009 – 42 years late but better late than never – at the small award ceremony in Rep. Nunes’s office in Visalia, California. The Republican congressman pinned the Silver Star next to the Purple Heart that Halbardier found in his home mailbox three years before.

    Nunes said, “The government has kept this quiet I think for too long, and I felt as my constituent he [Halbardier] needed to get recognized for the services he made to his country.”

    Nunes got that right. Despite the many indignities the Liberty crew has been subjected to, the mood in Visalia was pronouncedly a joyous one of Better Late Than Never. And, it did take some time for the moment to sink in: Wow, a gutsy congressman not afraid to let the truth hang out on this delicate issue. I was able to be there that day; seldom have I experienced a more poignant moment.

    Congressman Nunes, by virtue of the powerful position he now holds as chair of the House Intelligence Committee, is in position to extend recognition and gratitude to the rest of the Liberty crew, whether alive or dead. (Halbardier died last August.)

    –Israel’s seizure of the Swedish boat Marianne in international waters on June 29 en route to Gaza brought back bitter memories of the torpedo attack on the USS Liberty. The Marianne’s passengers and crew were taken to the Israeli naval base of Ashdod – the same base from which three Israeli torpedo boats sailed at noon (local time) on June 8, 1967 with explicit orders to join Israeli Air Force fighter-bombers already engaged in trying to sink the USS Liberty.

    Most of the 34 Liberty crew killed that day died when one of the five torpedoes fired by the Ashdod-based torpedo boats hit the Liberty. Sgt. Lockwood, who was in the process of throwing sensitive material and equipment over board, lost all the Marines under his command in that attack. According to Lockwood, the wheel from the torpedo boat that fired the killing torpedo has been on display at the Israeli Navy Museum in Haifa along with a life raft the Israeli boats picked up on their way back to Ashdod – adding insult to injury.

    • ckg
      July 6, 2015, 1:26 pm

      Former Navy Secretary Jim Webb must certainly understand what happened to the USS Liberty. But the politician apparently knows how to keep his mouth shut.

  20. Citizen
    July 6, 2015, 5:44 am

    Thanks for the link Kris–good catch.

  21. rosross
    July 6, 2015, 9:26 am

    The time and tides have caught up with Israel. The two appalling attacks on the Gaza concentration camp with so much carnage and the murder of so many children on each occasion, has sent images and information around the world so effectively that not even Americans can remain ignorant of the reality of the Israeli State and its occupation, colonisation and apartheid.

    In the modern age of instant and effective communication, no amount of propaganda and hasbara, will ever reduce the growing outrage at Israeli human rights abuses and atrocities inflicted on the indigenous people of the land it has colonised, simply because they resist military rule and abuse in the name of religious bigotry.

    No-one of conscience and moderate intelligence can remain silent when they become aware of the reality of Israel’s foundation and its shocking abuse of the Palestinian people for the nearly seven decades since it was founded. And that includes Americans who have been kept in the same propaganda pool of delusion, denial and misinformation that has so poisoned Israeli society, but who, when faced with the truth, will demand the rights of the Palestinians because those rights are in accord with what Americans believe themselves to be.

    More importantly, as the potential for social unrest rises in the US due to corruption, decay and the poorest quality of life for the average citizen of any developed nation and rates of poverty and the working poor rising, so too will demands that the money tap to apartheid Israel gets turned off.

    For, not only are Americans being informed about the reality of the Zionist State, they are learning that they have the worst worker conditions and rights of any developed nation and in general are the most poorly served as citizens. Who wants money spent on propping up injustice in Israel and Occupied Palestine when US infrastructure is crumbling by the day and people are working at two or three jobs just to survive? Not many.

    • Kay24
      July 6, 2015, 9:59 am

      Very well said. I totally agree with what you have stated. Israel is getting isolated and disliked more and more, and it totally their doing. You are right that the last massacre in Gaza backfired on them in the international arena. There is some indication they want to top that and start another “mowing of the lawn” this year too – yet another nail in their coffin.

  22. RobertHenryEller
    July 6, 2015, 10:12 am

    From the Times of Israel; Luntz polled 802 “members of the opinion elite” whatever that means; and describes criticism of Israel as “blatant” and “deep”:

    I’d describe Israel’s racist behavior as “blatant” and “deep.”

  23. RobertHenryEller
    July 6, 2015, 10:16 am

    “Exactly: Democratic primary candidates will make the illegal settlements an issue.”

    Really? Exactly which Democratic candidates might we expect to make the settlements an issue?

    I wish this will happen. But I’m not holding my breath.

  24. RobertHenryEller
    July 6, 2015, 10:30 am

    “Luntz says that a third of Democrats question how much aid the country is receiving from the U.S. and 60 percent of opinion elites don’t know what BDS– boycotts, divestment and sanctions– is. But when they find out what it is, many will support it, he says.”

    People complain about the $3.5 billion the U.S. directly gifts to Israel. But does anyone think about how much of our defense/intelligence budget indirectly but absolutely supports Israel? How much of our defense/intelligence budget is allocated to the Middle East? How little, if any, of our Middle East defense/intelligence budget does NOT support Israel is some way?

    We don’t just spend $3.5 billion on Israel aid. I’d say it’s well northing of ten times that, more than $35 billion. I’m sure even $35 billion is a low-ball estimate.

    The U.S. would be better off if the government itself bribed all of our politicians to not listen to AIPAC. Would be a lot cheaper, too.

  25. RobertHenryEller
    July 6, 2015, 10:42 am

    The largest “group” by political affiliation in the U.S. is the non-party-affiliated, the Independents. Independents comprise 39% of the electorate, Democrats 32%, and Republicans 23%.
    Why didn’t Luntz survey, or report, on Independents? Without polling Independents the now largest group of voters by far, any such polling as this is distorted, almost meaningless.
    If Independents also skew on these issues, U.S. support for Israel is potentially either much lower, or much higher, than Luntz reports. Luntz is either polling irresponsibly, or he’s deliberately hiding something.

  26. NickJOCW
    July 6, 2015, 11:31 am

    I don’t think the opinions of the ‘elite’ mean any more than those of whatever group is deemed to occupy the other end of the scale. It is those in the middle who sway society’s actions and it is unwise to be dismissive of them simply because they may not know where Israel is or what BDS means. What they do know is what is right and wrong, and they know that because it is wired into the human condition, and to the extent it remains uncontaminated by elitist or criminal self interest it is unquestioned. A questionnaire of this kind starts off on the wrong foot because it presupposes that being a Democrat or Republican makes any difference to whether Israel’s behaviour is supportable. Asked would they vote for a candidate supportive of those who arrest and abuse kids still in short pants, they wouldn’t say, No, unless they are Israelis abusing Palestinian kids. Netanyahu claims UNRWA is biased against Israel’s behaviour. Of course it is. So am I. I would be ashamed not to be.

  27. gosmoboleet
    July 6, 2015, 5:21 pm

    It’s funny how Luntz is pooh-poohed 99% of the time. The one time the results are what someone wants he’s a prophet.

  28. Louieknoxville
    July 6, 2015, 5:49 pm

    Wow, you guys have really gotten into the weeds on this story! Switch to the comments page of the “Times of Israel” coverage of this same story……..the hasbara crowd is going nuts. These poll results have really hit a nerve in right wing Israel.

  29. Boo
    July 6, 2015, 6:53 pm

    To make the sting that much greater, recent polls are also reporting that the Democratic Party is in the ascendancy. It’s not only the percentages that are changing against the Zionists, but the absolute numbers. This is no particular surprise to me; the only surprising thing is that it’s taken so long. Cast Lead and Protective Edge are likely to have tipped the scales, because average Americans typically have never felt kindly toward bullies.

  30. Vera Gottlieb
    July 15, 2015, 9:58 am

    An apartheid ghetto!

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