Israeli Banks flipping out over looming European boycott

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The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv (Hebrew) has a splashing headline today warning that Israeli banks are preparing for a “political-economic tsunami”  due to the possibility of an impending European boycott. Unsurprisingly, the banks – Israel’s largest – have been holding meetings amongst themselves to prepare for this tsunami, albeit “quietly and under the radar”.

According to Ma’ariv there is “increasing evidence in recent weeks” that the European Union is considering recommendations published in a policy paper last month by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR). Heavily reported at the time (our coverage here), ECFR’s policy paper warned that transactions between European states and Israeli financial institutions are obligated to adhere to EU policies based on international law when providing loans and financing to Israeli businesses, institutions and individuals in transaction with the illegal Israeli settlements enterprise.

An unnamed senior banking official told Ma’ariv, “Beneath the surface this is a mega-event” and if this should happen the economic implications on the banks will have a “massive” impact on the Israeli economy.

This is same tsunami we’ve been hearing about for years now. The timing of the article is somewhat intriguing given there was no information provided indicating what this “increasing evidence” is. But there was this rather curious tickler (google translate):

Further deterioration in relations between Israel and the United States downplays the chances that the Americans will try to curb this European action. Maybe the opposite is true. According to various diplomatic sources, the Americans have actually released the reins on Europe and are encouraging Europe to intensify its operations against the continuation of Israel’s settlement policy in the territories.

Do tell. One wonders if an increase in pressure might be in relation to Israeli influence over looming U.S. congressional legislation seeking to tank the P5+1 deal with Iran over their nuclear program.

Quoting officials in the Israeli banking system, this is a national issue; there are no banks in Israel not involved in the settlements and there’s “no trick that can solve this affair”:

“Credit marking” means that each Israeli bank which provides mortgage for the purchasing of an Apartment in Maale Adumim, Ariel, certain Places in Modi’in etc. enters the blacklist. The Europeans include also Jerusalem, Ariel, Golan heights, road 443 and parts of road 1 under the term “conquered territory”. There is not a bank in Israel that is not involved in activities in these areas. Every credit given to a business, every mortgage, can mean the bank risks a European boycott. “It has an enormous implication”, a senior in the banking system says, “the meaning of this is a siege upon the Israeli economy, a kind of SHUT DOWN. In such a situation we will have to organise and refer to the PM. Solutions for such an issue can only come in the national arena. It’s already far more than a just a financial issue per se.

The assessment is, that soon the banking system will exit the bunker and attempt to form an organised policy vis-a-vis the government. In such a situation, it is expected that heads of the banks will meet with the Finance Minister and PM and discuss a “credit and financial safety net for the banks against the new danger”. It is doubtful whether the government is able to produce such a safety net.

“We must admit that this is a national issue, we too are aware that there is no trick that can solve this affair”, they say in the banking system, “but this does not lessen our concern. We are speaking about a mega-event which we must prepare towards and digest. This is what we are currently trying to do”.

Tick tock. Tick tock.

Thanks to Ofer Neiman

English translation of Ma’ariv’s article, provided by Jonathan Ofir

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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131 Responses

  1. JLewisDickerson
    August 11, 2015, 11:02 am

    RE: According to Ma’ariv there is ‘increasing evidence in recent weeks’ that the European Union is considering recommendations published in a policy paper last month by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR).” ~ Annie Robbins

    MY COMMENT: I’ll believe it when I see it. Meanwhile, based upon the past behavior of the Europeans, I remain highly skeptical.

    • Krauss
      August 11, 2015, 11:05 am

      Meanwhile, based upon the past behavior of the Europeans, I remain highly skeptical.

      Europe is a poodle of America when it comes to the Middle East, that much we already know. It’s a poodle in a lot of other areas, too, but Middle Eastern policy is the standout.

      The EU will do what it has always done: made ineffective and useless noises and wait for the mastah to say jump or stay.
      I think these stories are what the Obama admin will want to go out, so as to scare the Bibi government but its empty noises. They would never dare to actually take the step and risk the full-on wrath of the lobby, this time united.

      Even J Street would condemn them and they would be forced to crawl back under the cross.

      • Ellen
        August 11, 2015, 6:52 pm

        A lot seems off about this report of a so-called boycott. Granted, we are reading a second hand report on a report, and after a translation.

        This has been discussed before on MW. The only thing the European banking and insurance industries are concerned about is the real possibilities of reparations for having their hand, if only indirectly, in financing illegal displacement of a people and taking possession of their properties. The damages could span generations.

        Europe has seen this before.

        So language of “siege” or “boycott ” is the misleading hysterics of the victim mindset.

        European financial institutions are looking into a foggy crystal ball and seeking their own protection from what is coming down the road. That is all.

      • Hostage
        August 11, 2015, 10:44 pm

        A lot seems off about this report of a so-called boycott.

        Because the “legal risks” are criminal and civil sanctions for participating in organized racketeering, not a “boycott”. In case you haven’t noticed, the governments of the EU have been saying that the Israeli settlements are illegal for a couple of generations now. They are all member states of the ICC and all of their banks and pension funds have been violating their own country’s laws.

        But now that Palestine has joined the ICC and referred the situation in the settlements to the Prosecutor, the only way for governments to make sure the ICC doesn’t take action is for member states to initiate preliminary investigations and take action on their own behalf and hope a whitewash will work for awhile.

        How much unsecured debt are we talking about, if there is no equity in all that plundered Palestinian state and Palestinian private property the Israeli and EU banks and pension funds are holding the paper on? These EU countries, like Sweden, who have formally recognized Palestine have no choice but to open their Courts to lawsuits and criminal complaints against all of these perpetrators and their assets if the government of Palestine comes knocking on their door.

        For example, the USA recognizes the EU, so it has to permit it to pursue claims in our courts. A U.S. appeals court has okayed a European Union lawsuit accusing R.J. Reynolds/Nabisco of running a global money-laundering scheme with organized crime groups. Nothing stops Palestine from doing the same thing in EU Courts over the things these banks and their EU partners and insurers are doing with unlawfully acquired property in Palestine.

        So, the Israeli Banks have started to figure out that there is no way they can stay afloat without insurers and investors, when their own government can’t afford to bail them out.

      • inbound39
        August 12, 2015, 8:53 am

        The Poodle apparently has acquired a large bark judging by this headline….UK PETITION DEMANDS ARREST OF NETANYAHU FOR WAR CRIMES……. http://www.wafa.ps/english/index.php?action=detail&id=29078

      • Bumblebye
        August 12, 2015, 11:19 am

        Thanks inbound! When I went to sign it, it was 1,666, in the time it took to do so it went up to 1,720, and a couple of hours later was well over 4,000! Hopefully it’ll crack thru the necessary number for the govt to take action soon.

        edit – well over 40k now, needs to be over 100k to trigger debate in the House.

      • piotr
        August 12, 2015, 1:18 pm

        The narrative in Mariv (and elsewhere, Mariv is not the first) is NOT that European regulators are not poodles, but that this dog may learn new tricks from the master. The master already have shown what to do when a bank performs transactions deemed illegal:

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2014/07/01/bnp-is-just-fine-after-9b-penalty-are-billion-dollar-settlements-effective/

        BNP Paribas is the latest big bank hit with a massive multi-billion dollar penalty…
        […] 8.9 G$ […] The penalty comes as regulators found the bank breached U.S. sanctions against Sudan, Iran and other countries transferring billions of dollars there.

        Loans for illegal activity are as much of penalty targets as money transfers if not more. The amount if the penalty does not have to be related to income from the transactions, but the settlement is normally conditional on the promises not to engage in further violations, alternatively, with no such promise (that would probably be illegal in Israel), the penalties may be hefty. Israeli banks could loose their properties in Europe and be barred from performing any transactions there, that would cost a bit.

        EU bank regulators could also go after Israeli banks in other markets as well.

        The price of the stock of Israeli banks will reflect assessment of that risk, and so will be the price of their bonds, in other words, the cost of raising money.

        Part two of the conundrum is why would the poodle do the trick learned from the master. The nightmare of Israelis is that the master can issue a silent command, audible only to the dog (is it called dog’s whistle?). There is also a possibility of the dog actually enjoying the new trick and performing it as long as the master does not command otherwise.

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 3:31 pm

        BNP Paribas is the latest big bank hit with a massive multi-billion dollar penalty…

        That was in July of 2014. By September, an American jury had decided that the Arab Bank of Jordan was liable for its role in handling transactions conducted by members of Hamas during the 2nd Intifada that may have been used to carry-out 3 terrorist attacks. In mid-May of this year, discovery was completed and the trial entered the damages phase. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trial-date-scheduled-for-damages-phase-in-landmark-arab-bank-terrorist-financing-case-300008154.html

        So are the Palestinians and Jordanians NOT supposed to notice that the EU, the USA, and Israel allow their citizens, public charitable organizations, Jewish and Zionist Federations, and other corporations to openly raise billions of dollars or conclude financial transactions involving unlawfully acquired Arab property that all gets funneled through their banks into or out of the illegal settlements populated by individuals and organizations that have long-since been officially designated for their complicity in international acts of terrorism and who are habitually resident on plundered public or private Arab properties? The EU and the USA can’t maintain that charade if those and other State Parties to the Geneva Conventions and/or the Rome Statute demand that those responsible either be prosecuted or extradited and their assets frozen.

      • Rashers2
        August 12, 2015, 3:50 pm

        It would be good to get the petition to 100k signatures so it must be debated at Westminster – it won’t have any effect, of course, vis à vis Israeli official visits to Britain; but may increase awareness and provoke debate in the UK on I-P/the successive “mowings of the lawn”, Israel’s state-sponsored terrorism, etc, which would be a positive result. I know many are ineligible to participate but any UK nationals reading MW, get on & sign! The direct link is: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105446

      • inbound39
        August 12, 2015, 7:54 pm

        Petition is up to 42,000 now. Not bad for twenty four hours. British Government has not yet responded.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 11, 2015, 12:18 pm

      i am skeptical of this news report for a number of reasons. for the most part the only thing new (at all) in this story is that the israeli bank officials are holding meetings. the way it’s reported, that’s the big reveal. i downplayed it in my coverage because i think it’s a no brainer they are going to meet about it. i mean, just for the purpose of strategizing. and as i reported a couple weeks ago when the policy paper came out http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/thinktank-pressure-occupation :

      In addition, the potential financial fallout on Israel’s economy from the impact of an international boycott was predicted and covered up by Israel’s Finance Ministry back in 2013. Initially the state refused to release the report and fought to hide the findings. Earlier this month, after a 2-year court battle, the Jerusalem District Court ordered Israel’s Finance Ministry to release its 6 page 2013 report (available in Hebrew here) assessing the economic impact of an expanded European boycott on the Israeli economy could reach NIS 40 billion($10.5 billion) annually. That’s a low 2013 estimate.

      The judge read the report and determined the information wouldn’t harm the public.

      so, it makes logical sense the bankers would be meeting with eachother and the finance ministry since the court required the state to release the report.

      so, my point being, why the big story they were meeting secretly? and that’s how they played it in the press there. the lede under the byline says: “The banks are in panic following a document produced by the research institute facilitating the EU.

      ok, that was the news 2 weeks ago. boring, doesn’t explain the screaming headlines. their opening line was:

      Quietly and under the radar the largest banks of Israel are seeking to form a plot and to coordinate positions

      a plot? quietly under the radar? like banks meet with eachother normally by announcing it to the public? and how under the friggin radar could it be if they are giving the press quotes? there’s nothing under the radar about it as far as i can see.

      then you get further in the report and it says:

      “These recommendations have been publicised several weeks ago, the media dealt with it one or two days and everyone moved on to daily business”, a senior official in the banking sýstem in Israel told “Maariv

      so what does that tell you? it tells you they want to tell you again, now. just the opposite of under the radar. it’s meant to be scary. why? the only thing new in the entire article is the first blockquote in the article (above). broken down it looks like this:

      Further deterioration in relations between Israel and the United States downplays the chances that the Americans will try to curb this European action.

      and then immediately they say this:

      Maybe the opposite is true.

      ? what kind of responsible journalism is that? it just sets the reader up for this — makes it scarier:

      According to various diplomatic sources, the Americans have actually released the reins on Europe and are encouraging Europe to intensify its operations against the continuation of Israel’s settlement policy in the territories.

      and that’s their punchline. this is the only new information in the entire article. and, we don’t even know if it is true. although it could be…. but my takeaway from the article is ‘America is deserting us!!!!’

      now who has the impetus to say that to the israeli public (in screaming boycott headlines) on the very last day of the US congressional delegation’s week long trip to israel? i can just hear them now ‘oh no we would never desert israel’.

      and don’t forget the priority of the visit is certainly the commitments for the iran vote. it may seem like a very convoluted sort of logic, but i can’t figure out why they are rebooting headlines from 2 weeks ago about a story ‘economic tsunami’ which has been around for over 2 years. why now? there’s certainly nothing under the radar about it.

      i think they are putting feelers out to find out if the US has in fact “released the reigns”. because if they knew that, it would be the headlines now wouldn’t it?

      • Annie Robbins
        August 11, 2015, 12:35 pm

        none the less i am (very) glad the report is out. i like it. i like they are in a panic and they should be. because the implications are enormous.

        i also think they’re looking for denials/quotes reassurance from the europeans like they got last time. ‘we’re not boycotting you’ etc.

      • a blah chick
        August 11, 2015, 5:30 pm

        The idea that the US might “unleash” the EU is interesting and coming at the same time as the ruckus about the deal Israel made with the energy company, the one that’s coming back to haunt them. The US is putting pressure on The Butcher not to renege on the deal, no wonder the bankers are getting nervous.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 11, 2015, 5:37 pm

        what deal israel made w/the energy company? gas exploration or something?

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 10:22 am

        what deal israel made w/the energy company? gas exploration or something?

        Yes the US government is twisting arms on behalf of the Noble Energy company and its gas deal. Now that Israel has granted a concession to a US company and it has some natural resources that it wants to exploit, it had better get used to being treated like a Banana Republic from time to time.

        FWIW, all of the landmark US/UK cases involving retroactive recognition of statehood involved the pursuit of monetary claims by those two governments on behalf of their own domestic banking, oil, mining, arms, or agribusiness interests. If there is ever a dollar or a pound to be made out of pursuing claims against either Israel or Palestine over revision of the Noble Energy deal or the collapsed British Gas Group (BG) deal, then both those governments will turn on a dime and rush into Court “in a New York minute” and use any stupid argument imaginable. In cases involving the Banana Republics, the Soviet Union, Cuba, and Communist China, they have both employed “retroactive” recognition of another party’s statehood, sometimes after decades of stubborn non-recognition, in order to demand restitution or compensation as a matter of “state responsibility” for some alleged wrongful “act of state” that occurred when the US or UK were insisting that no such state existed. It’s a shopworn tactic that they never get tired or bored of using.

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 12:16 pm

        P.S. The USA has never really accepted the principle of permanent sovereignty of peoples over their natural resources. The League of Nations/Hague Conference on the Codification of Principles of International Law in 1930 adjourned when the parties couldn’t come to an agreement over the legal principle that foreigners should not enjoy rights that are superior to the rights enjoyed by the indigenous population.(think alien Zionists vs. Palestinains) The members of the Pan American Conference have always supported the Calvo Doctrine in their state constitutions and in the American system of public international law over the objections of the USA. Our Courts have an almost constant flow of cases involving “wrongful takings” by foreign governments that result from renegotiation of concessions, like the Noble Gas deal, or nationalization of industries.

        In theory, the President is obliged to suspend foreign aid to Israel if it doesn’t honor its contracts with Noble Gas. 22 U.S. Code § 2370 – Prohibitions against furnishing assistance stipulates:
        (e) Nationalization, expropriation or seizure of property of United States citizens, or taxation or other exaction having same effect; failure to compensate or to provide relief from taxes, exactions, or conditions; report on full value of property by Foreign Claims Settlement Commission; act of state doctrine
        (1) The President shall suspend assistance to the government of any country to which assistance is provided under this chapter or any other Act when the government of such country or any government agency or subdivision within such country on or after January 1, 1962—
        (A) has nationalized or expropriated or seized ownership or control of property owned by any United States citizen or by any corporation, partnership, or association not less than 50 per centum beneficially owned by United States citizens, or
        (B) has taken steps to repudiate or nullify existing contracts or agreements with any United States citizen or any corporation, partnership, or association not less than 50 per centum beneficially owned by United States citizens, or
        (C) has imposed or enforced discriminatory taxes or other exactions, or restrictive maintenance or operational conditions, or has taken other actions, which have the effect of nationalizing, expropriating, or otherwise seizing ownership or control of property so owned,
        and such country, government agency, or government subdivision fails within a reasonable time (not more than six months after such action, or, in the event of a referral to the Foreign Claims Settlement Commission of the United States within such period as provided herein, not more than twenty days after the report of the Commission is received) to take appropriate steps, which may include arbitration, to discharge its obligations under international law toward such citizen or entity, including speedy compensation for such property in convertible foreign exchange, equivalent to the full value thereof, as required by international law, or fails to take steps designed to provide relief from such taxes, exactions, or conditions, as the case may be; and such suspension shall continue until the President is satisfied that appropriate steps are being taken, and provisions of this subsection shall not be waived with respect to any country unless the President determines and certifies that such a waiver is important to the national interests of the United States. Such certification shall be reported immediately to Congress. — https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2370

      • Boomer
        August 12, 2015, 2:36 pm

        hostage: as usual, you are an amazing source of information. From what you say about U.S. propensities, I wonder if Iran will be next on the list? As soon as we drop a few of the sanctions, might we be demanding compensation for all the oil that the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (now BP) and Gulf Oil (now Chevron) were not allowed to take (to say nothing of the CIA base (called the American Embassy), etc. For that matter, I wonder if a similar fate is in store for Cuba?

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 4:10 pm

        For that matter, I wonder if a similar fate is in store for Cuba?

        To some extent the US Supreme Court already closed the door on retroactive claims against the Castro government using the “Act of State”/foreign sovereign immunity doctrine e.g. Banco Nacional de Cuba v. Sabbatino, 376 U.S. 398 (1964). That’s one of the reasons why the Congress weighed-in and adopted the statute I cited tying foreign assistance to private claims going forward. Cuba wasn’t getting any US Foreign Assistance by then anyway, but does have a valid complaint regarding one of the world’s longest on-going illegal military occupations, i.e. the US Naval base at Gitmo.

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 3:49 pm

        From what you say about U.S. propensities, I wonder if Iran will be next on the list?

        We have a permanent court of arbitration (see below) because we are on one another’s permanent sh*t lists.

        These are the relevant ICJ cases, including a few that dealt with the situations you mentioned:
        *Anglo-Iranian Oil Co. (United Kingdom v. Iran) http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=82&p1=3&p2=3&case=16&p3=5
        * United States Diplomatic and Consular Staff in Tehran (United States of America v. Iran) http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=334&p1=3&p2=3&case=64&p3=5
        * Oil Platforms (Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America) http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=3&case=90
        * Aerial Incident of 3 July 1988 (Islamic Republic of Iran v. United States of America) http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=3&code=irus&case=79&k=9c&p3=0

        Here’s a blurb from the website of: THE IRAN-UNITED STATES CLAIMS TRIBUNAL

        The Iran-United States Claims Tribunal was established on 19 January 1981 by the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America to resolve certain claims by nationals of one State Party against the other State Party and certain claims between the State Parties. To date, the Tribunal has finalized over 3,900 cases. Currently on the Tribunal’s docket are several large and complex claims between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America. — http://www.iusct.net/

    • JLewisDickerson
      August 12, 2015, 12:01 am

      P.S. ■ I just took action to tell Senator Chuck Schumer (i.e., #WarmongerChuck) not to lead Democrats into war with Iran.
      I think you should too!
      ✔ TO SIGN THE PETITION – http://act.credoaction.com/sign/schumer_iran?sp_ref=141894249.4.12437.e.0.3&referring_akid=.1603881.m5640e&source=mailto_sp

    • ziusudra
      August 15, 2015, 7:35 am

      Greetings JL. Dickerson,
      Appreciate your everflowing libraries of knowledge, thanks.

      Perhaps the EU law of restriction could come to fruition, if
      Obama loses this up & coming vote.
      The Euros/EU do business with Israel.
      The Euros/EU want to do business with Iran too.
      Open Iran, more business than with Israel.
      Iran stays open for Europe if the Reps. win, US loses.
      Have we not noticed that war mongering UK & FR are on de
      Bandwagon with Iran. These two alone would wreck havoc
      on Israel if their contracts could sour.
      ziusudra
      PS It’s not a personal Thing. Europe has more to win with Iran.

    • jon s
      August 17, 2015, 6:56 am

      Maybe Maariv was trying to show that the boycotters can’t spell.

  2. diasp0ra
    August 11, 2015, 11:28 am

    I’m waiting for the usual suspects to come along and tell us how we’re just reading into things and that BDS is ineffective and useless.

    • TRG-42
      August 11, 2015, 5:04 pm

      I hope this works ok and Israel’s economy collapses

    • inbound39
      August 12, 2015, 7:57 pm

      If BDS was not working they would not be bleating so much or spending so much money to counter it….lol….I love it!

    • gracie fr
      August 13, 2015, 2:01 pm

      “When you say to Israelis ‘European boycott,’ they think it means that this year they won’t get Camembert cheese on time,” he said at a security conference last year last year. “That is not the case.”

      Lapid has put the cost of even a 20 percent decline in Israeli exports to the European Union at $5.7 billion a year.

      http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/08/11/3688653/bds-israel/

  3. CigarGod
    August 11, 2015, 11:49 am

    FFO!
    Children of the 60’s will understand.

    • Citizen
      August 11, 2015, 3:04 pm

      Value of Funds from operations of real estate trusts?

      How does the US guarantee of Israel’s debt fit into a EU boycott of Israeli banks?
      Would US taxpayers be on the hook a la bail-out, as they’ve been with the TBTF US banks?
      How about an impact of on bank depositor funds a la a bail-in, considering US bank rules changed November of 2014?

      • CigarGod
        August 11, 2015, 5:19 pm

        Complicated, eh?

  4. John Douglas
    August 11, 2015, 12:13 pm

    If the EU banks follow through on this and if the Obama trade deal goes into effect what will the US be required to do in regard to trade with the EU? Doesn’t that trade deal contain language that seeks to prevent this very kind of thing?

    • John O
      August 11, 2015, 12:52 pm

      “Doesn’t that trade deal contain language that seeks to prevent this very kind of thing?”

      It does, and that’s one reason why the TTIP deal has stalled in the European Parliament (though what I think may be now out of date).

  5. Kay24
    August 11, 2015, 12:58 pm

    Signs are the EU has got a bit loosened from US direction. Almost hours after the deal was agreed to, some EU nations started their path to have business dealings with Iran. Some representatives also flew into Tehran for that purpose. One nation (forget which one) also announce opening an embassy of sorts. So even if the zionists servants here manage to vote against it, I think the other nations will disregard it, and do what is best for THEM. Time the EU showed independence from US policies and do the right thing for the Palestinians too.

    • Citizen
      August 11, 2015, 3:10 pm

      If memory serves, Germany was the first to send business/trade delegations to Iran. Most recently, I read some American oil companies just traveled to Iran.

      • jimby
        August 12, 2015, 11:49 am

        I think that Halliburton has been there all along. When the Shrub designated Iran in the “Axis of Evil” Halliburton was still there and stayed doing business in Iran.

      • Ellen
        August 17, 2015, 6:59 pm

        The international trade shows and conferences held in Iran started gearing up months ago.

        This one just this past may for infrastructure engineering

        http://fidic.org/events/fidic-aspac-conference-tehran-iran-10-13-may-2015

        I read recently (I forget where) of a conference to be held this October in Iran among all the major hotel chains to get going on beefing up the Iranian hotel industry to accommodate international travelers .

        Iran is simply too important for the world, and Israel and theirs rentier-energy economy friends (all of whom have benefited from the isolation of Iran) will not be able to stop normalized relations.

    • piotr
      August 12, 2015, 1:45 pm

      “One nation (forget which one) also announce opening an embassy of sorts.”

      Perhaps we can narrow the possible candidates by listing countries that already have an embassy in Tehran.

      Australian Embassy in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Austria in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Belgium in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Bulgaria in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of the Republic of Croatia in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of the Republic of Cyprus in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of the Czech Republic in Islamic Republic of Iran
      Royal Danish Embassy in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Finland in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of France in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany in Teheran, Iran
      Embassy of Greece in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Hungary in Teheran
      Embassy of Ireland in Tehran, Iran
      The Royal Netherlands Embassy, Tehran
      New Zealand Embassy in Tehran
      Royal Norwegian Embassy in Tehran,Iran
      Embassy of Poland in Iran
      Embassy of Portugal in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Romania in Tehran, Iran
      Slovak Republic Embassy , Iran
      Embassy of Slovenia in Iran
      Embassy of Spain in Iran
      Embassy of Sweden in Tehran, Iran
      Embassy of Switzerland in Tehran Iran,
      Embassy of the United Kingdom in Iran

      I skipped Bosnia. I did not see Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Luxemburg, and Malta, so the plans to open an embassy could refer to them. Perhaps they could rent together a smallish building in a less expensive neighborhood.

      • Kay24
        August 14, 2015, 7:03 am

        Thanks for that information. I did not realize there were so many still functioning. I am glad that things are going to improve for the people in Iran.

    • inbound39
      August 12, 2015, 8:01 pm

      Biggest bugbear Israel has is Iran’s economic potential to cut Israel’s share of the market. It is also the reason Israel does not want a Palestinian State and why id chops down or burns olive plantations. Greed…..Israel wants it all.

      • Kay24
        August 14, 2015, 7:06 am

        That is part o the problem when it comes to Israel. There is an element of greed and they want it all by hook or by crook. They have demonized many nations in their neighborhood, played victim, and poisoned American minds, but really they resort to the same crimes they accuse others of.
        For example, they accuse Iran of going to acquire nuclear bombs, but hey, ignore the fact that Dimona has secrets that will shock the world.

    • inbound39
      August 13, 2015, 9:17 pm

      Swiss have dropped sanctions against Iran.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 13, 2015, 9:20 pm

        yeah! let them fall like dominoes!

  6. pabelmont
    August 11, 2015, 1:33 pm

    In such matters, what is said in public is aimed at the public, for an effect, and what matters often stays secret. Or stays secret until it gets so thoroughly confirmed,, that, as it here appears in public, the die is cast, the EU is determined to oppose the settlements (and the banks which fund them), and Israel is in trouble. We’ve already seen some EU banks actually — in actual fact, not mere speculation — pull back from investments in Israel for similar reasons.

    The USA has presumably been gently nudging the EU in such a direction for a long while (since Bibi began his shenanigans about war with Iran I’d say — when Obama broke with Bibi and went public about “no war”). Now Obama is duking it out with the Republicans (and democrats like Chuck Schumer) who have become a “war party” (or at least a party of loud-mouths and loose cannons) at a time when many Americans feel the USA is tired of (paying for) (big) wars.

    So — I find this report believable. though not irreversible.

    • bintbiba
      August 11, 2015, 2:14 pm

      Good to see you’re back among us …Mr Belmont !

    • Citizen
      August 11, 2015, 3:14 pm

      @ pabelmont

      But the “Pro-Israel” organizations have been raining down expensive ads instilling fear about the Iran Deal on the main stream cable tv media
      US. Thus most recent polls are showing Dick & Jane trending against the Iran Deal.

    • Keith
      August 11, 2015, 4:01 pm

      PABELMONT- In such matters, what is said in public is aimed at the public, for an effect, and what matters often stays secret.”

      That is exactly correct and why it is a good idea not to place too much emphasis on the public statements of the elites or their representatives including the media.

  7. amigo
    August 11, 2015, 1:36 pm

    Given the historical anemic actions of the EU , a certain level of cynicism is justified.However , there will come a breaking point and I would suggest that , that is not so far away.I would even entertain the idea that the US is working covertly in concert with the EU to create regime change in Israel.Nothing scares people more than the threat of putting their lifestyle on a diet or mucking up their plans.

    As to the US punishing the EU if it carries out such actions , I don,t buy it.The EU will respond by intensifying it,s trade efforts with Iran.Why should the EU let China and Russia reap all the benefits of years of negotiation and stand to lose billions just because Israel and it,s lobby don,t like the deal.

    The world is getting tired of the rogue nation and will only tolerate so much BS from the State sans frontiere.

    Ok , I am not holding my breath .

    • Sibiriak
      August 11, 2015, 1:48 pm

      amigo: Nothing scares people more than the threat of putting their lifestyle on a diet or mucking up their plans.
      ———————

      Not so much in Russia.

    • bryan
      August 11, 2015, 3:09 pm

      Don’t hold your breathe – but there is here a clear indication of how quickly the Israeli house of cards could come tumbling down. If the European Union was to stick by its principles on human rights and was to be presented with a green light from an Obama regime (fed up with being dissed by a minor foreign entity) then we would not need an innocuous BDS movement in order to bring a transformation to Palestine.

      I’m sure it won’t happen, but how wonderful it would be if it could – and those of you monitoring the Jeremy Corbyn progress might see that things are changing in Europe – irrespective of the best endeavors of the Israel lobby.

    • Citizen
      August 11, 2015, 3:26 pm

      American business would prosper if Iran-US relations got better; the sanctions on Iran don’t only come with a cost to Iran. Further, in the longer run, the US petro dollar is slowly being circumvented by nations doing business with Iran even under the sanctions. Dick & Jane have no clue at all just how much is taken from their blood and treasure by AIPAC’s stranglehold on the US government. It’s not only tiny Israel’s giant tin charity cup under US foreign aid faucet.

    • piotr
      August 14, 2015, 9:35 am

      Indeed, threatening EU is an idea circulated in Congress, but it is a totally futile idea. In a nutshell, EU is good in one thing only: protecting the members in an event of a “trade war”. Competent bureaucrats would compile the list of affected EU companies and a list of American companies that can be affected by counter-sanctions, with attention paid to what states and Congressional districts would be affected most, and issue those counter-sanctions. This happened a few times and worked like a charm.

  8. ritzl
    August 11, 2015, 3:08 pm

    Interesting that Ma’ariv called this prospective action a boycott. Sanctions would be more accurate, but the “over the edge”/”Move over South Africa” implications of them using that term must be too much to admit and/or bear.

    Or maybe it’s just the translation.

  9. gracie fr
    August 11, 2015, 4:04 pm

    The Norwegians started the financial exit (in the form of divestment from pension funds) back in 2012…..
    In June 2012, Norway excluded Israel’s largest real estate firm from its government pension fund, also citing settlements.

    .
    In 2014, the Dutch pension fund PGGM announced on the front page of its website today that it had withdrawn tens of millions of Euros worth of investments from five Israeli banks. The fund cited the banks’ unethical and illegal practices in the West Bank…….

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/dutch-pension-giant-divests-israeli-banka

    • Annie Robbins
      August 11, 2015, 4:23 pm

      hops, that’s dated july 23 after the report came out 2 weeks ago. i referenced it here:

      i also think they’re looking for denials/quotes reassurance from the europeans like they got last time. ‘we’re not boycotting you’ etc. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/flipping-looming-european/comment-page-1#comment-789189

    • eGuard
      August 11, 2015, 7:56 pm

      Nor the Israeli banks, nor homphmi is screaming “anti-Semtism” so it’s no issue today.

    • Ellen
      August 17, 2015, 7:09 pm

      Hop, European banks may not call it a “boycott” in the sense of a political or BDS-like boycott. (that is something the Israeli media will scream to make the public believe they are victims of those nasty goy-Europeans .

      The Euro banks will just stop doing business with Israeli banks (all of them) involved in financing and operating with the illegal occupation and stealing.

      They must do this to avoid reparations that will surely be imposed at some point in the future.

  10. HarryLaw
    August 11, 2015, 4:54 pm

    In my opinion these measures date back to early last year when the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office in conjunction with the UK Trade and Industry Department.. Overseas Business Risk Register – Israel, together with other EU Governments, put out this paper https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-business-risk-israel/overseas-business-risk-israel
    “There are therefore clear risks related to economic and financial activities in the settlements, and we do not encourage or offer support to such activity. Financial transactions, investments, purchases, procurements as well as other economic activities (including in services like tourism) in Israeli settlements or benefiting Israeli settlements, entail legal and economic risks stemming from the fact that the Israeli settlements, according to international law, are built on occupied land and are not recognized as a legitimate part of Israel’s territory. This may result in disputed titles to the land, water, mineral or other natural resources which might be the subject of purchase or investment.
    EU citizens and businesses should also be aware of the potential reputational implications of getting involved in economic and financial activities in settlements, as well as possible abuses of the rights of individuals. Those contemplating any economic or financial involvement in settlements should seek appropriate legal advice”. What more could scare a Bank off, than to have to seek legal advice before contemplating financial involvement?

    • Annie Robbins
      August 11, 2015, 5:31 pm

      thank you for the link harry. i’ve cached it for further reference. i recall first reference to financial committees recommending divestments to banks in july 2013, which i reported here:

      http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/haaretz-warns-israel-is-facing-its-moment-of-truth-as-europe-explores-sanctions-against-companies-tied-to-the-occupation

      Investment committees for European banks are considering recommending their institutions bar loans to Israeli companies that have economic links with the Palestinian occupied territories. Check that wording, “economic links” — this ensnares many more businesses than those directly operating within the territories. Last week, Haaretz reporter Yossi Verter referenced this as “ the mother of all fears” a “nightmare scenario” and warned of an “economic tsunami”

      Bluntly titled “Danger ahead: an Israel boycott“, today’s Haaretz editorial does not mince words:

      In Friday’s Haaretz, Yossi Verter reported that the relevant government ministries had recently received disturbing news. Major banks in Europe with operations around the world have been exploring the possibility of barring loans to Israeli companies that have a business or economic link with the occupied territories. According to the information received, these banks’ investment committees have been considering recommending barring their institutions from providing loans, or any other assistance, to Israeli companies that manufacture, build or conduct commerce in the territories, or to banks that provide mortgage lending or loans to builders or buyers of housing in the territories.

      Although the recommendations have been rejected for the time being − after an Israeli lobbying campaign that came against the backdrop of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry’s diplomatic initiative in the region − the proposal will continue to hover over Israel.

      The magnitude of the danger this poses to the Israeli economy is hard to overstate

      interestingly haaretz has scrubbed that first link but you can still gind it on google by searching :

      Contrary to Bennett’s statements, sources in Jerusalem say …
      http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/.premium-1.535373
      Haaretz
      Jul 12, 2013 – By Yossi Verter | Jul. … An economic tsunami, the mother of all fears. … This is the nightmare scenario, this is the economic tsunami that has …

      but if you click on the link, it’s been removed. ;)

  11. Marnie
    August 12, 2015, 12:34 am

    I hope the EU will do what it’s mumbling about. I just wish politicians would be more like poker players and not show their hand until its a done deal. The bluffing is boring – put your backs into it and walk the walk, don’t just talk the talk.

  12. Marnie
    August 12, 2015, 2:43 am

    “There is not a bank in Israel that is not involved in activities in these areas. Every credit given to a business, every mortgage, can mean the bank risks a European boycott. “It has an enormous implication”, a senior in the banking system says, “the meaning of this is a siege upon the Israeli economy, a kind of SHUT DOWN. In such a situation we will have to organise and refer to the PM. Solutions for such an issue can only come in the national arena. It’s already far more than a just a financial issue per se.”

    “A siege upon the Israeli economy, a kind of SHUT DOWN”. We can only hope. Could this lead to the congressional traitors curtailing their neverending war on President Obama and instead setting their sites on doing battle with the European Union? Will Huckabee ressurect his remarks about Pres. Obama “marching Israelis to the door of the oven” and redirect that bullshit to Europe ( where it actually happened, but who cares about facts, right?). Such drama queens.

  13. Rodneywatts
    August 12, 2015, 6:43 am

    Hi Annie! Thank you for keeping up your reports on matters pertaining to the EU and Israel, which I note goes back to 2013. I see that there are the usual skeptical comments in the light of the effectiveness of past declarations and the influence of the US. Well, I am much more convinced that Israel does need to be exceedingly worried, and take steps to reverse its whole colonial venture as well as its racist/apartheid structure.

    Whilst I certainly don’t disagree with Harry and the importance of the UK gov warning to businesses in their dealings with I/P, there was in fact an even more important document in the form of a letter from the European Eminent Persons Group on 11th May addressed to the the European Foreign Relations Council, Ms Federica Mogherini, Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the EU, other top EU leaders AND John Kerry.

    http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1431517700142/EEPG-letter.pdf

    There were 19 signatories, including John Bruton, Mary Robinson, Jeremy Greenstock and Peter Sutherland from Ireland and UK.
    Below is an excerpt from the letter that expresses pretty unequivocally the majority of European sentiment.

    ‘As for Palestine’s membership of the International Criminal Court as from 1 April 2015, Europe should engage with the Palestinians on responsible use of the ICC, recognising that its powers will be applicable to Palestinian just as much as to Israeli actions. Indeed, the existence of the ICC could be a primary channel for constraining abuses of human rights and
    war crimes on both sides in future.

    THE EU RELATIONSHIP WITH THE US

    The EU and its Member States have been held back from a more proactive stance on Israel
    -Palestine by three major considerations: their lack of consensus on the issue, their
    focus on newer and apparently more urgent Middle East crises and their reluctance to get out in front of the United States in an area where Washington has always insisted on prime ownership. These three drawbacks now need to be addressed directly. The absence of any credible negotiation process, combined with the desperate condition of the Occupied
    Territories, the eroding international legitimacy of the Israeli approach and the instability of the wider region, requires a fresh examination of EU policy. The fact that American efforts over more than two decades have achieved virtually nothing by way of justice for the Palestinians or long-term security for Israel means that European interests have also suffered. This needs to be recognised in a new formulation of EU policy that puts those interests first and that reflects the expectation of European public opinion increasingly dissatisfied with the status quo. The Arab Peace Initiative, proposed in 2002 but largely ignored since then, could form one pillar of a new EU approach.’

    The economic differentation focused on in your article is, of course an exceedingly important part of the whole European contribution to Justice for I/P, but there are the politico-legal shifts which have already happened.

    Yes Annie ‘Tick Tock Tick Tock’ the chickens are coming home to roost.

  14. ivri
    August 12, 2015, 5:46 pm

    Since 70 years now there is always the next Big Move that will bring Israel to its knees. I can`t blame anybody outsiders for that – although there is something disturbing in their never-failing yearning for that – because it is a favorite Israeli self-scare practice. If for some reason this one does not materialize than there is still down the road: The planned French bid for a Palestinian state in the Security Council, The repeated Palestinian threats in regard to the ICC, All kinds of other BDS threats, The Iran deal`s signing…. – so the MW site can be assured of a lot of material to chew upon.
    In the meantime….

    • eljay
      August 12, 2015, 7:00 pm

      || ivri: Since 70 years now there is always the next Big Move that will bring Israel to its knees. … In the meantime…. ||

      1. Every new empire is the Thousand Year Empire…until it’s not. The “Jewish State” is no different. :-(

      2. Once again, your usually-fluent English has slipped. Interesting.

    • Mooser
      August 12, 2015, 9:36 pm

      “Since 70 years now there is always the next Big Move that will bring Israel to its knees.”

      “Irvi”, it’s not “outsiders” and certainly not MW, who is throwing a scare into Israelis, it’s the Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv, you dolt!
      What do you want Mondo to do, censor the Israeli papers for you?

      • ivri
        August 13, 2015, 4:20 pm

        That`s a funny response Mooser because that is exactly how I described it – please re-read this very short comment of mine above. It appears that you only read the first sentence…. Is it how you manage to write so many responses? Namely, not really reading what you presumably respond to

      • Mooser
        August 14, 2015, 11:53 am

        “Namely, not really reading what you presumably respond to”

        “Irvi” with so many other well-informed and intelligent comments to read, why would I give your comments more than a cursory and derisive glance? Are you about to say anything different or worthwhile? You’ve been selling the same load of clams since you got here.

      • ivri
        August 15, 2015, 8:14 am

        OK, enjoy reading the many intelligent comments here – but make sure not to find out that you wasted a whole lifetime on the wrong track

      • CigarGod
        August 15, 2015, 9:57 am

        You should know you are on the “wrong track”, when you find yourself hanging with the guys driving out, destroying, imprisoning and relegating to 2nd class status, a whole people…and then justifying the whole thing with faith in tradition, magic and the hateful aspects of old texts.

      • ivri
        August 15, 2015, 6:24 pm

        @Cigar
        Well, that`s a funny remark too because if you read it you can it applies perfectly to the warring factions within the Arab (or broader Muslim) world now. Yet, I bet you mean Israel, namely the last place in the region where the rights of minorities (if they are not belligerent) are fully protected. Did you follow the fate of Christians in Iraq? The Yazidis in Syria? The Kurds? And so on and on.
        I am sorry Cigar but to me this is not just a great bias and distortion plus a huge extent of unfairness but also sheer blindness.

      • CigarGod
        August 15, 2015, 7:58 pm

        It might apply on mars or on a parallel universe, too. But the topic is Israel/Palestine.

      • straightline
        August 15, 2015, 8:36 pm

        @ivri: “the last place in the region where the rights of minorities (if not belligerent) are fully protected”

        You know, ivri, I’m beginning to see the humour in your comments.

  15. NickJOCW
    August 13, 2015, 10:46 am

    The EU move is not really anti anything, not even anti occupation. It’s a simple matter of law, and quite apart from the individual sentiments of any politician or business. There has, however, been a much broader awareness of the IP issue since the last Gaza onslaught. An official petition to arrest Netanyahu on his visit to London next month (launched only a couple of days ago) is now at 47,421 and increasing by hundreds an hour https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105446 . These things make an irreversible cumulative impact and this one will attract considerable publicity whatever the outcome may be.

    • CigarGod
      August 13, 2015, 10:54 am

      That’s nice.

    • John O
      August 13, 2015, 1:23 pm

      48,405 just now :-)

    • inbound39
      August 13, 2015, 9:29 pm

      Petition to arrest Natanyahu now at 51000.

      • CigarGod
        August 13, 2015, 10:18 pm

        Thats the threshold…or is it 100k? Now they have to validate the signatures?

      • Eva Smagacz
        August 15, 2015, 5:07 pm

        its 59000 just now, and yes, it needs to be 100000 for it to be discussed in the Parlament

      • straightline
        August 15, 2015, 8:40 pm

        Now 60k and I’ve just emailed friends of like mind in the UK to sign. Suggest those of you outside UK with friends there do so too.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 17, 2015, 9:33 am

        it will make it at the pace at which it’s garnering signatures, now at 65,778

      • CigarGod
        August 17, 2015, 10:07 am

        Love these updates.
        Will forward the petition to my Brit friends.

  16. gamal
    August 13, 2015, 2:07 pm

    yet more evidence of burgeoning anti-semitism in Europe

    “On August 13th, 2015, Paris-plages (Paris-beaches) will become, for 12 hours, Tel Aviv-sur-Seine. A brilliant idea, and, let us not doubt, a very brave one on the part of the Socialist mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo. It is especially timely in that it commemorates the Israeli massacre in Gaza in the summer of 2014”

    http://sayed7asan.blogspot.fr/2015/08/third-reich-sur-seine-french.html

    • jon s
      August 17, 2015, 7:01 am

      And more evidence of Anti-Semitism in the bds movement:

      http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.671389

      This isn’t a performace by an Israeli artist , or a performance by an artist in Israel.
      Matisyahu is just a performer who happens to be Jewish.

      • straightline
        August 17, 2015, 7:07 am
      • RoHa
        August 17, 2015, 7:14 am

        How is that anti-Semitism? He wasn’t chucked out because he is Jewish. He was chucked out because of his political views.

      • Sibiriak
        August 17, 2015, 7:16 am

        jon s: And more evidence of Anti-Semitism in the bds movement. […]Matisyahu is just a performer who happens to be Jewish.
        ——————————

        The article says Matisyahu was disinvited from the festival because he would not publicly endorse Palestinian statehood– not because he happened to be Jewish.

        You may disagree that someone should have to endorse Palestinian statehood, but there’s no evidence of antisemitism.

      • diasp0ra
        August 17, 2015, 7:21 am

        Are you kidding me? You’re really grasping at strings here. Let me help:

        Not saying the Palestinians deserve a state = endorsement of the status quo = endorsement of occupation, settlement, refugees living in squalor.

        Refusing to say that a people have a right to self determination dehumanizes them and supports their oppressor. The article even implies that the other artists in the festival were approached with the same, as they threatened to cancel if the declaration was not made.

        He is also an ardent Zionist and a hardcore supporter of Israel. The festival supports BDS. It is totally relevant and not antisemitic, since clearly the other artists were asked the same.

        You can disagree all you want about their tactics, but saying it is antisemitism is a stretch and a half.

      • eljay
        August 17, 2015, 7:26 am

        || jon s: … This isn’t a performace by an Israeli artist , or a performance by an artist in Israel. Matisyahu is just a performer who happens to be Jewish. ||

        According to jpost:

        … Valencia has developed a strong BDS campaign and organizers have accused the Jewish artist of being a “Zionist” who supports the practice of “apartheid and ethnic cleansing.” …

        In April of this year: Matisyahu headlining pro-Zionist festival in New Orleans

        Reggae star Matisyahu is headlining this year’s DYF 3.0, a pro-Zionist festival held at Tulane University on April 12. … The festival was endorsed by Alan Dershowitz …

      • talknic
        August 17, 2015, 7:32 am

        Just a performer who, unless he says otherwise, apparently condones illegal occupation, illegal annexation, illegal settlements. Has nothing to do with being Jewish.

      • a blah chick
        August 17, 2015, 8:05 am

        He was invited to a reggae festival and you can invite or disinvited whom you want . I’m still looking for whether it was a condition of performing to sign the statement. As for what may have upset the BDS people perhaps it was things like this from 2010, from the Jewish Chronicle online:

        “Do you honestly believe that, if someone was in the English Channel, the British navy would do anything but blow the crap out of the boat, just blow it out of the water? But still people are going to think Israel behaved horribly. As it is, Israel gives tons of aid to Gaza. And they told the people on the ship to go over to dry land and they’d bring the aid with those people overseeing it. But they [the activists] wanted to instigate whatever they wanted to. It’s anarchy.” He stops eating for a moment, then looks down. “No other country,” he says with a heavy sigh, “would put up with the crap that Israel does.”

        Max Blumenthal has a link where he endorses Ayalon and the notion that’s there is no such thing as Palestine.

        Also his European and North American tour looks pretty well booked, so he won’t starve.

      • RoHa
        August 17, 2015, 8:14 am

        But your post is a good example of how Israel supporters cry “anti-Semitism” when they see something they don’t like.

        Not that we needed another.

      • Mooser
        August 17, 2015, 11:12 am

        “And more evidence of….”

        Ziocaine Syndrome Amnesia.

  17. eljay
    August 13, 2015, 2:24 pm

    || gamal: … “On August 13th, 2015, Paris-plages (Paris-beaches) will become, for 12 hours, Tel Aviv-sur-Seine … ” ||

    Wow, what a stupid idea.

    || … Bruno Julliard, the glorious Deputy Mayor of Paris, warned against “amalgams between the brutal settlement policy of the Israeli government and the city of Tel Aviv which is a progressive city, a symbol of peace … ||

    As the capital city of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist, intransigent, belligerent, nuclear-armed and religion-supremacist state that has been committing (war) crimes with impunity for almost 70 years, Tel Aviv cannot be a “symbol of peace” any more than WWII Berlin could be a “symbol of peace”.

    • piotr
      August 14, 2015, 9:41 am

      http://www.telaviv4fun.com/beaches.html

      I wonder if they will also make a “separated beach” on Seine, and if they do, will it will be open for women or for men (as you can read in the link, the “separated beach” is open three days a week for the religious men, three days for the religious women, and on Saturdays, for the non-religious.)

      Actually, given that there may be a number of religious folks in Paris that could wish for a segregated beach, this should be a permanent feature, say “Jerusalem/al-Quds beach”.

      • Mooser
        August 14, 2015, 11:56 am

        “the “separated beach” is open three days a week for the religious men, three days for the religious women,”

        That’s six days. The other day is used to change the water in the ocean.

      • Kris
        August 19, 2015, 11:52 am

        @Mooser:

        the “separated beach” is open three days a week for the religious men, three days for the religious women,”

        That’s six days. The other day is used to change the water in the ocean.

        Thank you, Mooser, for making me laugh today!

      • Mooser
        August 19, 2015, 12:02 pm

        Thanks, Kris!

      • talknic
        August 20, 2015, 8:39 am

        @ Mikhael August 19, 2015, 6:45 am

        Lemme ask again … Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

    • jon s
      August 17, 2015, 3:52 pm

      The notion that artists should be allowed to perform only if they conform to a specific political position, and the demand to sign a “loyalty-oath ” -type of document as a condition is, at the very least, a form of McCarthyism.
      If Matisyahu is the only performer required to do so, if, as a Jew, he’s judged by different standards, that is, by defintion, Anti-Semitism.
      http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-groups-protest-cancellation-u-musicians-spanish-concert-161250514.html;_ylt=A0LEVwumMdJVHvAAh1hXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyODRjcmJxBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjAzNDFfMQRzZWMDc2M-

      Two incarnations of Matisyahu:

      • eljay
        August 17, 2015, 5:23 pm

        || jon s: … If Matisyahu is the only performer required to do so, if, as a Jew, he’s judged by different standards, that is, by defintion, Anti-Semitism. ||

        If all Zionist performers are being required to do so, it’s not anti-Semitism, it’s anti-Zionism.

        But if he is the only Zionist performer being required to do so, and he’s being singled out because he happens to be a Jewish Zionist, then I agree that it’s anti-Semitism.

      • straightline
        August 17, 2015, 7:13 pm

        Great reply eljay! The ball’s in your court, jon s! Alison Weir is in trouble for going on radio programs hosted by people who might, apparently, be bigots. Organisers of music festivals are in trouble for disinviting people who might, apparently, be bigots. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.

      • Ellen
        August 17, 2015, 7:24 pm

        Nah, they were all required to make a statement or sign something to that effect.

        Yes, inviting performers and then having them sign political – thought statements is weird and smacks of McCarthyism. Not pretty.

        It is, however, little different from the pressure our government representatives are put under to profess their constant love of Israel and promises to defend it uber alles. If they don’t they are purged.

      • talknic
        August 17, 2015, 9:51 pm

        @ jon s “The notion that artists should be allowed to perform only if they conform to a specific political position…

        Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

      • straightline
        August 18, 2015, 6:59 am

        So jon s is called out – as is almost always the case with hasbarats coming to this site. But does he give an apology? No way! Zionism means never having to say you’re sorry.

      • Mooser
        August 18, 2015, 10:15 am

        “straightline” you are being very unfair to “Jon s”. If you click his name, and access his archive, you will see many, many comments attesting to his goodness, refusal to speak evil, love for everybody, even Arabs, and his Israeli Classic Left background!
        And every one of them written by the man who should know.

      • Mikhael
        August 19, 2015, 6:45 am

        talknic August 17, 2015, 9:51 pm

        Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

        “Palestinian” artists who are “occupied”, as in residents of the Hamas-controlled Gaza has not or the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority? Since Gaza is in effect enemy territory, I don’t see how it’s possible that either Hamas or Israel would allow Palestinian Arabs from Gaza to perform in Israel. If we are talking about Palestinian Arabs from the PA in the West Bank, if they can get the proper permits to visit and work in Israel, then there is no legal bar on them performing in Israel, if they choose to do so.

        Of course, if when you refer to “Palestinian performers” you mean the Arab citizens of Israel, some of whom have recently started identifying themselves as “Palestinians” then it should be obvious that many Arab citizens of Israel in the arts are very much opposed to Zionism and regularly work as actors and musicians in Israel, their political views are usually well known and not an obstacle to them finding work.

    • Kris
      August 19, 2015, 11:48 am

      Mikhael, denial is an excellent psychological coping mechanism for the short term, but remaining stuck in denial, and not being able or willing to move beyond it, is unhealthy and self-defeating. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

      Refusing to acknowledge that something is wrong is a way of coping with emotional conflict, stress, painful thoughts, threatening information and anxiety. You can be in denial about anything that makes you feel vulnerable or threatens your sense of control, such as an illness, addiction, financial problems or relationship conflicts. You can be in denial about something happening to you or to someone else.

      When you’re in denial, you:

      Refuse to acknowledge a stressful problem or situation
      Avoid facing the facts of the situation
      Minimize the consequences of the situation

      When denial can be helpful

      Refusing to face facts might seem unhealthy. Sometimes, though, a short period of denial can be helpful. Being in denial gives your mind the opportunity to unconsciously absorb shocking or distressing information at a pace that won’t send you into a psychological tailspin.

      For example, after a traumatic event, you might need several days or weeks to process what’s happened and come to grips with the challenges ahead. Imagine what might happen if you find a lump in your throat. You might feel a rush of fear and adrenaline as you imagine it’s cancer. So you ignore the lump, hoping it’ll go away on its own. But when the lump is still there a week later, you consult your doctor.

      This type of denial is a helpful response to stressful information. You initially denied the distressing problem. As your mind absorbed it, however, you came to approach it more rationally and took action by seeking help.

      But what if you had continued to be in denial about the lump? What if you never sought help? If denial persists and prevents you from taking appropriate action, such as consulting your doctor, it’s a harmful response.

      You can read further about strategies that may help you explore ways of moving beyond denial.

      It might be helpful to read the report of Israel’s recent refusal to allow Salim al-Naffar, a poet and Ibrahim al-Zant, a novelist, both Palestinians, to attend a writers’ conference next week in Ramallah. The report is included in Kate’s latest compilation of Israel’s behavior towards the Palestinians, here: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/implications-demolitions-settlement . Just scroll through the reports and you will find it.

      • Mikhael
        August 20, 2015, 7:22 am

        Kris
        August 19, 2015, 11:48 am
        It might be helpful to read the report of Israel’s recent refusal to allow Salim al-Naffar, a poet and Ibrahim al-Zant, a novelist, both Palestinians, to attend a writers’ conference next week in Ramallah –

        Both al Naffar and al-Zant are residents of Gaza, a hostile entity controlled by an enemy regime that is in a de facto state of war with Israel. As I wrote above: “Since Gaza is in effect enemy territory, I don’t see how it’s possible that either Hamas or Israel would allow Palestinian Arabs from Gaza to perform in Israel

        Since when can subjects of enemy regimes freely enter and travel through the territory of a state that their government is at war with; whatever their political opinions? Things don’t work that way in any conflict between governments as a general rule.

        Hamas (which is in detente with Fatah, more or less, for the moment) may have authorized them to participate in the Ramallah conference, but traveling there would mean they have to pass through Israel, and Israel has no obligation to permit citizens of a hostile entity to pass through its territory even if they are apolitical or even opposed to the Hamas regime. Likewise, it would seem that Hamas authorized these two to go to Ramallah because of the current Fatah-Hamas thaw, nevertheless, one would expect that Hamas would not permit them to participate in an Israeli forum, at an Israeli university, with Israeli writers,either.

        The rhetorical question being addressed, however, was whether “Palestinian artists” who “object to their occupation” have a legal right to perform in Israel. Let’s go over it one more time, because I like to help. I correctly answered that if by “Palestinians” one is referring to residents of Gaza, a self-governing territory/polity controlled by a hostile regime at war with Israel; then, again, no, the right to enter Israel, even for the purpose of traveling through it to get to the West Bank definitely cannot be assumed. If “Palestinians” refer to residents of the West Bank controlled by the rest of the PA, then depending on whether they get authorization to enter Israel (Israel grants thousands of entry permits to Palestinians from the West Bank for work or visiting) , there is no legal ban on them “performing,” whatever their opinion is, if that is what they choose to do while inside Israel. If by “Palestinian” one means Arab citizens of Israel (many of whom, but not all, refer to themselves as “Palestinian”), then yes, absolutely, Arab citizens of Israel (aka “Palestinian Israelis”) who “object to occupation” can and do perform in Israel, and make their opinions on the subject well known at every opportunity and nevertheless enjoy successful careers. E.g., actors Makram Khoury, Nurman Issa and Mohammed Bakri, as well as authors like the late Emil Habiby, a recipient of the Israel Prize, and are never censored for their views.

      • CigarGod
        August 20, 2015, 9:41 am

        Mikhael,
        Your framing is at odds with the reasonable/logical person you think you are presenting yourself to be.
        You have a lot to fix before you can even begin the study.
        Here is enough to get you started:
        Hamas is not at war with Israel. Israel is at genocide with Hamas and Palestine…and always has been.

      • talknic
        August 20, 2015, 8:41 am

        Mikhael August 19, 2015, 6:45 am

        Lemme ask again. See if you can give a straight answer, sans the Ziopoop … Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

        Try not to change the question I’ve asked… thx

        Israel is NOT Occupied. Emil Habiby was an Israeli. Mohammed Bakri, Israeli. Nurman Issa, Israeli. Makram Khoury, Israeli

      • talknic
        August 20, 2015, 9:02 am

        @ Mikhael “Since when can subjects of enemy regimes freely enter and travel through the territory of a state that their government is at war with; whatever their political opinions? Things don’t work that way in any conflict between governments as a general rule

        Correct and a good point. It’s quite normal between entities a war to either intern or expel possible allies of their enemies and to freeze their assets. Israeli military law from 1948 til the present forbids Israeli citizens or residents from entering enemy territory. IOW Israel prevented Israelis from worshiping in Jordanian controlled territory for 19 years. Naturally Jordan reciprocated. Quite normal. Why do Israeli propagandists make such a big fuss over normal war time relationships?

      • Kris
        August 20, 2015, 12:18 pm

        Mikhael, I do hope you will check out the information about denial that I provided for you, above, as well as Kate’s regular compilations of Israel’s unlawful and cruel behavior towards the Palestinians, also linked to, above. It would take only a few minutes, and might be interesting to you.

        You probably already know that Hamas is a legitimate resistance movement, like the Warsaw Ghetto resistance, and you know that the Palestinians are not at war with Israel any more than the Jews were at war with the Third Reich.

        Israel has been stealing land and resources from the Palestinians without stopping for more than 70 years, and you know that, too. Obviously you approve of this, maybe for religious reasons, or maybe because you and your family are benefitting from Israel’s crimes.

        I realize that you may not be religious, but I am, and each time “the Jewish state” acts with sadistic cruelty towards the Palestinians, whether by starving them, bombing them, shooting them, bulldozing their pathetic tents and homes, destroying olive trees, preventing students from pursuing their educations, preventing writers from attending conferences, etc., etc., etc., I am amazed and frightened. It is like hearing about ISIS. It is how it used to be to hear about the KKK and the Nazis.

      • jon s
        August 20, 2015, 5:10 pm

        The festival organizers have reversed their decision regarding Matisyahu, and reinvited him, so maybe I had a point…

      • eljay
        August 21, 2015, 8:23 am

        || jon s: The festival organizers have reversed their decision regarding Matisyahu, and reinvited him, so maybe I had a point… ||

        If the festival was contacted about multiple artists whose actions contradicted its principles and it chose to ban only Matisyahu, I agree that anti-Semitism could have been at play. (And by not banning the other artists, the festival would have been selectively ignoring its principles.)

        If that’s not the case, I don’t see a problem. (And reversing the decision means that the festival ignores its principles.)

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2015, 5:09 am

        talknic August 20, 2015, 8:41 am

        Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

        Well, disregarding the fact that it is a nonsensical question, because it assumes that there are Palestinian Arabs who are occupied by Israel, rather than citizens of an openly hostile entity controlled by an enemy regime living in Gaza, and thus as citizens of an enemy quasi state entity in a de facto state of war with Israel are extraordinarily unlikely to receive permission to enter Israel except under extraordinary circumstances (such as those who are treated in Israeli hospitals as a humanitarian gesture–like the granddaughter of Ismail Haniyeh) or citizens of the Fatah-controlled part of the Palestinian Authority who live in the West Bank, many of whom do get entry passes into Israel for various reasons after passing security clearance, e.g., for work, hospital visits, etc. Assuming that a Palestinian Arab resident of the PA in the West Bank is also an “artist” (e.g., a musician), and can be proven to not be a security threat, and is amenable to performing in Israel and has a valid work permit to do so, there is no legal bar on such a person performing.

        Try not to change the question I’ve asked… thx

        Many Arab citizens of Israel have taken to referring to themselves as “Palestinians” and/or “Palestinian-Israelis” nowadays (though I think it’s a bit of an oxymoron) and it is actually the standard usage by most of the commenters on this blog, including Philip Weiss. So it was very responsive to your question.

        Emil Habiby was an Israeli. Mohammed Bakri, Israeli. Nurman Issa, Israeli. Makram Khoury, Israeli.

        Citizens of Israel who are comfortable referring to themselves as or being referred to as “Palestinian-Israelis”; see excerpts from this al Jazeera profile of Makram Khoury below:

        http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/03/hath-palestinian-eyes-150309054204893.html

        As fate would have it, centuries after its original composition and performance, a veteran Palestinian actor Makram Khoury, 69, is now about to perform Shylock in a major production of “Merchant of Venice” by the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford-upon-Avon….How dare a Palestinian portray a Holocaust survivor, or even more ironically and potently, Shylock?

        Of course, this highlights the extreme fatuousness of your original question because the Matisyahu issue has to do with an apolitical reggae singer who is an American citizen with a well-known Jewish background who was initially banned from a music festival in Spain because he refused to clarify his position on the I/P issue; and the ban only was rescinded because the festival organizers finally realized they were getting bad press from their outrageous inquisitory behavior.

        It would be as if a Muslim-American artist would be denied the right to perform in Australia by a music festival’s organizers unless he or she made a pro-Israel statement. So let’s imagine that the talented Omnia Hegazy, a Muslim-American alt rock singer and daughter of an Egyptian immigrant (who I saw perform recently) was dis-invited from a folk rock festival in Sydney because some of the organizers had Zionist sympathies, and hearing her Arabic-sounding name and the fact that she sometimes sings in Arabic, demanded that she clarify her position on Israel and issue a statement that she recognizes it as a Jewish state. I would consider such a demand to be outrageous; wouldn’t you? That’s the proper analogy, not your silly and stupid supposition that Israel wouldn’t allow Palestinian artists to perform solely because of their political opinion.

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2015, 5:45 am

        talknic August 20, 2015, 9:02 am
        Israel prevented Israelis from worshiping in Jordanian controlled territory for 19 years. Naturally Jordan reciprocated. Quite normal. Why do Israeli propagandists make such a big fuss over normal war time relationships?

        Per the 1949 Armistice Agreements, and through the a Special Committee, the Jordanians and the Israelis were supposed to facilitate “free access for the holy places”. Indeed, Christian citizens of Israel (most of them Arab) were permitted by Israel to enter and visit Christian holy sites in the Jordanian-controlled part of Jerusalem and the West Bank during the period 1949-1967 with Israeli and Jordanian coordination through the Special Committee, so it is a falsehood that Israel did not permit its citizens to enter enemy territory. The Jordanians simply did not extend this courtesy, as they were supposed to do under the terms of the Armistice, to Jewish citizens of Israel.

        See this news item from 1957:

        https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19561224&id=zlRgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=anENAAAAIBAJ&pg=5691,4365786&hl=en

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2015, 6:27 am

        Kris August 20, 2015, 12:18 pm

        You probably already know that Hamas is a legitimate resistance movement, like the Warsaw Ghetto resistance

        The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto resistance didn’t fire rockets at non-Jewish civilians, they didn’t send suicide bombers to kill non-Jews, they didn’t have fanatic ideology that all of Poland or Germany should be turned into a theocratic state run by Jewish law and its non-Jewish inhabitants expelled or killed.

        Hamas and the Warsaw ghetto fighters are alike in the following ways: Trapped in an open-air prison, they were trying to defend their people.

        No, dummy. When established in 1940, the Warsaw Ghetto had 400,000 Jews herded and crammed into about 1.3 square miles (the equivalent of a few city blocks) at its outset in 1940. A mere three years later, at the time of the Uprising, the ghetto’s population had been winnowed down through deportations, random executions, starvation and disease to about 70,000. Gaza, by contrast, is a self-governing territory, it has a population of 1.8 million (and growing) living in 139 square miles , with a well-armed militia.

        They were brave and desperate.

        Some of the brainwashed fighters in Hamas may have shown some bravery in battle, and I guess some people might consider it brave to strap a suicide belt around your waist and kill Israeli citizens (including Muslim and Christian citizens of Israel) on a bus or in a marketplace, as Hamas members frequently did through in the 1990s and early 2000s. Unlike the Jewish fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto, who really were making a last-ditch and futile effort at resistance before the Nazis totally culled all the last Jews there, the Hamas regime in Gaza has the option of recognizing Israel and declaring its willingness to embrace a two-state solution (and I am not talking about a temporary hudna). Unlike the Jews interned in the Warsaw Ghetto prior to their deportation to death camps, the citizens of Hamas-controlled Gaza are not being starved to death or dying from epidemics, they have access to medical care, they have fully stocked stores (although it’s mostly Hamas-connected cronies who have the money to buy abundant goods) they receive aid from the international community (because so much of Gaza’s resources are invested into putting them in a constant war footing with Israel, most of Gaza’s residents who are not affiliated with the Hamas regime have no choice but to rely on aid).

        their adversaries had a powerful war machine, while the resistance fighters had only primitive weapons.

        The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto indeed had only primitive and smuggled-in pistols and homemade weapons. Hamas forces in Gaza are indeed lacking in advanced weaponry and manpower compared to the IDF, but they cannot be characterized as “primitive” by anybody knowledgeable. They are a pretty well-armed militia although they are no match for the IDF. That of course, is a very, very VERY good thing. There is no shame in being better armed and better trained than your enemies who want to kill you.

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2015, 6:39 am

        CigarGod August 20, 2015, 9:41 am
        Mikhael,
        Hamas is not at war with Israel.

        The Hamas Covenant explicitly declares that there can be no resolution of the conflict through conferences or any form of mediation, but only through war, and anticipates the day when the land will be genocidally cleansed of Jews. It’s all there for you to read:

        http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

      • CigarGod
        August 25, 2015, 9:33 am

        Incorrect.
        It is a resistence movement.
        It only exists to resist Zionist aggression.

        We should probably discuss the insideous nature of the german/russian zionist invasive species…and why there is a universal interest in resisting it.

        Change your invasive nature, learn to live with others…and there is no need for resistence.

      • talknic
        August 25, 2015, 9:25 am

        @ Mikhael “The Hamas Covenant explicitly declares that there can be no resolution of the conflict through conferences or any form of mediation,”

        Proven to be true. Israel has ignored every opportunity offered by the UNSC to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter reaffirmed and emphasized in numerous UNSC resolutions.

        “It’s all there for you to read”

        Including Article Thirty-One: “As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly.” (The Tried – verse 8).

        Mikhael August 19, 2015, 6:45 am

        //Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?//

        ” Of course, if when you refer to “Palestinian performers” you mean the Arab citizens of Israel, some of whom have recently started identifying themselves as “Palestinians” then it should …”

        A) Israel isn’t occupied. B) There are far more Jewish Arab citizens of Israel than you’ll ever dare admit

        By 1950 the population of Israel was estimated to be about 1,370,000
        There were approximately 156,000 non-Jewish Israeli citizens who were not dispossessed from within the borders of the territory proclaimed by the Israeli Government and recognized as Israeli on the 15th May 1948 and; there were some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states
        That’s approximately 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000. Which is about 47%. Not yet including the non-Jewish Israeli Arabs who were dispossessed by 1950 and not yet including the indigenous Arab Jews.
        Simple maths shows us the Arab population of Israel in 1948 was well in excess of 50%. A large number of Israeli Jews today are of Arabic descent. Arab DNA is deeply and inescapably embedded in the Israeli population

        @ Mikhael August 25, 2015, 5:09 am

        “Well, disregarding the fact that it is a nonsensical question, because it assumes that there are Palestinian Arabs who are occupied by Israel”

        UNSC res 476 ” Israel, the Occupying Power one of hundreds of UNSC resolutions reminding Israel of its legal obligations and affording Israel the opportunity to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter those resolutions reaffirm and emphasize

        “Assuming that a Palestinian Arab resident of the PA in the West Bank is also an “artist” (e.g., a musician), and can be proven to not be a security threat, and is amenable to performing in Israel and has a valid work permit to do so, there is no legal bar on such a person performing”

        Care to simply answer the question without great wads of Ziopoop … thx

        “Citizens of Israel who are comfortable referring to themselves as or being referred to as “Palestinian-Israelis”….. etc etc “

        Israel is not occupied

        “Per the 1949 Armistice Agreements, and through the a Special Committee, the Jordanians and the Israelis were supposed to facilitate “free access for the holy places”. “

        A) Only for people already within their respective areas. “Article IV 3. Rules and regulations of the armed forces of the Parties, which prohibit civilians from crossing the fighting lines or entering the area between the lines, shall remain in effect after the signing of this Agreement with application to the Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI.”

        B)Article VIII 3. The Special Committee shall have exclusive competence over such matters as may be referred to it. Agreed plans and arrangements formulated by it may provide for the exercise of supervisory functions by the Mixed Armistice Commission established in article XI.

        “The Jordanians simply did not extend this courtesy, as they were supposed to do under the terms of the Armistice, to Jewish citizens of Israel “

        On what date was the request referred to the Special Committee for Israeli Jews ?

      • Mikhael
        September 12, 2015, 7:34 pm

        talknic August 25, 2015, 9:25 am

        @ Mikhael “The Hamas Covenant explicitly declares that there can be no resolution of the conflict through conferences or any form of mediation,”

        Proven to be true. Israel has ignored every opportunity offered by the UNSC to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter reaffirmed and emphasized in numerous UNSC resolutions.

        Israel first entered into direct negotiations with the PLO in 1993 and every government since then has affirmed the principles of a two-state solution, something that Hamas rejected out of hand from its formation until the present.

        “It’s all there for you to read”

        Including Article Thirty-One: “As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly.” (The Tried – verse 8).

        What a fantastic vision of tolerance espoused by Hamas for Jews in an Islamic Emirate of Falestin after the dismantling of the State of Israel. They will “deal kindly” and “behave justly” to those Israeli Jews determined to “have not borne arms” against them– because you know, members of ahl al dhimma aren’t supposed to bear arms against Muslims. What does “deal kindly” mean? That they’ll permit some Jews to observe their religion quietly as long as they accept their dhimmi status, don’t build any synagogues bigger than a mosque, and pay the jjizya tax, as in days of yore, or does “dealing kindly” mean they’ll expel the Jews without killing them IF they never bore arms? (All IDF veterans and children of IDF veterans —Raus?). No real detail there, hmm. It doesn’t say anything about Jews being guaranteed the right to live in their own homeland once Hamas takes over. I guess fringe, fanatic groups of Jews like the fundamentalist sect of weirdos in the Neturei Karta, who have a masochistic notion of what being a Jew entails, might be welcome in a Hamas state as long as they fervently embrace Jewish subservience. I don’t think they’d have much use for secular Jewish anti-Zionist types though. Of course we are just talking about the hoped-for Hamas-run state in the near future. All bets will be off when the Day of Judgment comes and all the Jews, including Neturei Karta members and Max Blumenthal types will be screwed and l have to hide behind trees, which will miraculously give up the Jews hiding behind them (except the Gharkad tree, except who can find a Gharkad tree when you need one?). Any Jew hoping to stay in a Hamas-run state because he thinks he never bore arms and thus Hamas will deal kindly with him better hope the Day of Judgment never arrives.

        (Mikhael) ” Of course, if when you refer to “Palestinian performers” you mean the Arab citizens of Israel, some of whom have recently started identifying themselves as “Palestinians” then it should …”

        (talknic) A) Israel isn’t occupied.

        Neither is Gaza or the Palestinian Authority-controlled areas of the formerly Jordanian-occupied West Bank. But regardless, since Gaza is an area under de facto enemy control, citizens/residents of the Hamas-controlled entity there do not haave any right to enter Israel even if they demonstrably LOVE Israel and want to come there just to sing and dance about how great Israel is. Subjects of an enemy government never have that right during wartime. But citizens of the PA in the West Bank, once they obtain entry permits into Israel (and thousands of them do receive such permits) can enter Israel and are not banned by Israeli law from performing in Israel (assuming they are artists who wish to perform in Israel), whatever their opinion is of the “occupation.”. You have yet to explain the relevance of this to an American citizen being initially banned from a Spanish music festival unless and until he explained his opinions about the I/P issue in a manner satisfactory to the event’s hosts.

        There are far more Jewish Arab citizens of Israel than you’ll ever dare admit …there were some 500,000 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab states
        That’s approximately 656,000 Arabs of a population of about 1,370,000. Which is about 47%. Not yet including the non-Jewish Israeli Arabs who were dispossessed by 1950 and not yet including the indigenous Arab Jews

        “Arab” is a national identity and when 99.9% of Israeli Jews who come from families that formerly lived in Arabic-speaking countries or Arabic-speaking families eschew identifying with Arab nationalism, save for a few fringe figures, it is illogical to describe them as Arabs. The Arab population of Israeli citizens is about 20% and does not include Jews. “Jewish” is a separate nationality from “Arab.”

        A large number of Israeli Jews today are of Arabic descent. Arab DNA is deeply and inescapably embedded in the Israeli population

        DNA stores and codes specific heritable biological traits. What, pray tell, is “Arab DNA” storing/coding? There is no such thing as “Arab DNA.” (Nor is there “Jewish DNA”.) While there is no specific “Arab DNA” or “Jewish DNA”, there are, however, genetic markers shared by Jews (including Mizrahi, Sefaradi and Ashkenazi Jews) and Arabs that indicates both national groups share much common ancestry in this region. Sharing common descent and ancestry, however, does not render a Jew an Arab nor an Arab a Jew. DNA analysis also confirms that the Japanese share very close ancestry with the Koreans and are probably descended from ancient peoples who migrated from Korea (to the chagrin of extremely anti-Korean Japanese ultranationalists) Swedes, Danes and Norwegians are also largely descended from the same closely related ancestral gene pool. Nevertheless, Japanese are not Koreans and Danes are not Swedes. Like Jews and Arabs they are separate national groups with distinct national identities. An Israeli Jew whose ancestors lived in Iraq shares the same national identity as an Israeli Jew whose ancestors lived in Germany (and with a Jew who lives in Los Angeles today)–Jewish.
        Jews are not Arabs and Arabs are not Jews.
        By 1950 the population of Israel was estimated to be about 1,370,000

        @ Mikhael August 25, 2015, 5:09 am

        “Well, disregarding the fact that it is a nonsensical question, because it assumes that there are Palestinian Arabs who are occupied by Israel”

        UNSC res 476 ” Israel, the Occupying Power“ one of hundreds of UNSC resolutions reminding Israel of its legal obligations and affording Israel the opportunity to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter those resolutions reaffirm and emphasize

        UNSC 476 deals with Jerusalem, which is the united capital of Israel and not an occupied city, and Israel will never accept a resolution which defines its capital city as occupied as binding. But since you incorrectly persist in declaring that the Palestinian Arab residents of Jerusalem (most of whom are not Israeli citizens — although they are eligible to apply for Israeli citizenship and are doing so in ever-increasing numbers — see http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2015/0706/For-some-Palestinians-in-East-Jerusalem-a-pragmatic-Israelification) as living in an “occupied” city, then, even if one accepts this falsehood, any Palestinian Arab artist, whether or not he/she falsely considers himself/herself to be “occupied” and objects to it, is free to perform in Jerusalem or any other part of the State Israel, which they have free access to even as legal residents/non-citizens of Jerusalem (the Israeli capital).

        Care to simply answer the question without great wads of Ziopoop … thx

        I’ve answered it several times already, but I’ll do it agaaaaaain (because you are so slooooow at comprehending) and I’ll use copious amounts of verbiage to do my best to help you understand (I’m very generous that way). You originally posited this ludicrous query in response to the Spanish reggae fest’s demanding that an American performer clarify his political opinions regarding Israel solely based on his Jewish ancestry and his refusal to answer got him banned. “//Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?// The answer– AGAAAIIIIN is that there is no ban in Israel on Palestinian Arab artists performing in Israel based on their political opinions, whether they hold Israeli citizenship or not, or whether they are from Israel or the territories. Palestinian Arabs from Gaza, which is enemy territory in a state of de facto war with Israel and not occupied even by Hamas’s own admission (Mahmoud Zahar: “Gaza is free of occupation, and contiguity with the outside world is easier as visitors from all over the world visited the coastal enclave http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=520228) are banned. Palestinian Arabs from Areas A, B and C of the Fatah-controlled PA can legally enter Israel after undergoing rigorous security clearance. Upon entering Israel, there is no ban on them performing under Israeli law whatever their opinions are or are not regarding the so-called occupation.

        (Mikhael) “Per the 1949 Armistice Agreements, and through the a Special Committee, the Jordanians and the Israelis were supposed to facilitate “free access for the holy places”. “

        (talknic) A) Only for people already within their respective areas.

        There is nothing in the plain text of the agreement that can be interpreted by any reasonable person as suggesting that civilians could gain access to the holy sites only if they were “already in their respective areas”. You like making shite up, don’t you? Considering that every Jew was ethnically cleansed from East Jerusalem and the West Bank by the forces of the Transjordanian Arab Legion and Palestinian Arab militias prior to the signing of the Armistice Agreement, asserting that Israel sought a commitment from Transjordan to allow Jewish access to the Jewish holy places and cemeteries in Transjordanian-held East Jerusalem only for those Jews “already in their respective areas” when there were no Jews on the Jordanian-held side is nonsensical on its face.

        “Article IV 3. Rules and regulations of the armed forces of the Parties, which prohibit civilians from crossing the fighting lines or entering the area between the lines, shall remain in effect after the signing of this Agreement with application to the Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI.

        This deals with civilians crossing over to the other side without authorization, which was illegal. (Informally, actually there were occasional crossings, or at least contacts between the two sides. My father used to tell a story of how he once kicked a soccer ball over the border fence and a Jordanian soldier kicked it back. My uncle did his army service, and later reserves, in divided Jerusalem period and was on a first-name basis with one Legionnaire and swapped cigarette packs and sometimes lunch with him. )

        The Special Committee was supposed to convene to facilitate civilians visiting holy sites on the other side under official auspices. Aside from the twice-a-month convoys to the Hebrew University and Hadassah Hospital on Mt. Scopus, the Jordanians did not honor their obligations to permit Israeli Jews access to the Western Wall or the Mount of Olives Jewish cemetery (where generations of my ancestors are buried). Oddly enough, they did allow Israeli Christians on several well-publicized occasions, with Israeli cooperation, contra your assertion that Israel banned its citizens from entering Jordanian-held territory,

        On what date was the request referred to the Special Committee for Israeli Jews?

        Since the Special Committee was disbanded shortly after its formation and was essentially non-existent for most of the period that the Armistice Agreements were in effect between 1949-1967, it would have been somewhat difficult to present these requests to it.

      • Hostage
        September 12, 2015, 10:53 pm

        Re: Israel first entered into direct negotiations with the PLO in 1993 and every government since then has affirmed the principles of a two-state solution, something that Hamas rejected out of hand from its formation until the present.

        LoL! You can’t peddle that mythology here. We’ve been getting daily coverage of the fulminations from the likes of Netanyahu, Bennet, Danon, Lieberman, et al that there will be no Palestinian state between the river and the sea and have seen videos of your Prime Minister bragging about the fact that he killed the Oslo Accords. Your right wing party platforms are mirror images of the Arab ones you keep shreying about.

      • Mooser
        September 12, 2015, 10:02 pm

        YTup, it does look like therer are som economic re-adjustments being made in Israel. As means become straitened, Hasbara will be paid by-the-word instead of per-post, and “Mikheel” is determined to keep his income up.
        You know:
        “And he said ‘Judge, suppose I fail’? The Judge said ‘Buddy, it’s off to jail!’ Try and keep ‘er, you’ll find it’s cheaper….”
        But “Mikheel” can do it. It’s as easy as rolling off a logorrhea!

      • talknic
        September 15, 2015, 1:07 am

        @ Mikhael the verbose

        “Israel first entered into direct negotiations with the PLO in 1993 and every government since then has affirmed the principles of a two-state solution, something that Hamas rejected out of hand from its formation until the present”

        A) Irrelevant to the fact that Israel has ignored every opportunity offered by the UNSC to adhere to the binding Laws and UN Charter reaffirmed and emphasized in those numerous UNSC resolutions. B) No Israeli government has ever offered to withdraw from all non-Israeli territories. Without an end to occupation and full withdrawal there cannot be an independent Palestinian state. Israel has never actually done anything to further a two state solution.

        Re – Art 31 Hamas Charter “What a fantastic vision of tolerance espoused by Hamas for Jews in an Islamic Emirate of Falestin after the dismantling of the State of Israel … etc etc … “

        Your speculation spectacularly proves precisely nothing.

        // (Mikhael) ” Of course, if when you refer to “Palestinian performers” you mean the Arab citizens of Israel, some of whom have recently started identifying themselves as “Palestinians” then it should …”

        (talknic) A) Israel isn’t occupied.//

        “Neither is Gaza or the Palestinian Authority-controlled areas of the formerly Jordanian-occupied West Bank… etc …etc … “

        A) you were talking about “the Arab citizens of Israel B) Israel isn’t occupied and UNSC res 1860 and UNSC res 476 tell us you’re spouting bullsh*t . C) The West Bank wasn’t occupied. It was legally annexed to Jordan by unilateral agreement (per the UN Charter on self determination). D) By 1967 Jordan, including the West Bank, was a UN Member State, a High Contracting Power and ratified signatory to GC IV.

        “… Subjects of an enemy government never have that right during wartime. “

        Indeed. Israeli emergency law of 1948 ( still in force) prohibits the entry of Israeli residents and citizens into the territory of an hostile entity, except hypocritically to allow illegal settlers, illegal annexation, illegal institution of Israeli civil law in non-Israeli territories and to access cheap labour

        “But citizens of the PA in the West Bank, once they obtain entry permits into Israel (and thousands of them do receive such permits) can enter Israel and are not banned by Israeli law from performing in Israel (assuming they are artists who wish to perform in Israel), whatever their opinion is of the “occupation.””

        Amazing…. Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel?

        “You have yet to explain the relevance of this to an American citizen being initially banned from a Spanish music festival unless and until he explained his opinions about the I/P issue in a manner satisfactory to the event’s hosts.”

        Uh ? jon s did “@ jon s “The notion that artists should be allowed to perform only if they conform to a specific political position…” to which I asked “Many Palestinian artists who object to their occupation allowed to perform in Israel? http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/flipping-looming-european#comment-791464

        ““Arab” is a national identity”

        Can’t find a single passport that says ‘Nationality – Arab’

        “The Arab population of Israeli citizens is about 20% and does not include Jews. “Jewish” is a separate nationality from “Arab.””

        A) Cannot find a passport that says Nationality – Jew
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passport#/media/File:Israel_Biometric_Passport.jpg
        B) Jewish folk from Arab states were Arabs

        “DNA stores and codes specific heritable biological traits. What, pray tell, is “Arab DNA” storing/coding? There is no such thing as “Arab DNA.””

        Uh huh then

        there are, however, genetic markers shared by Jews (including Mizrahi, Sefaradi and Ashkenazi Jews) and Arabs that indicates both national groups share much common ancestry in this region.”

        Genetic makers in what? DNA perhaps?

        “Jews are not Arabs and Arabs are not Jews”

        Ever tried telling an Arab Jew? https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Arab+Jew%22#q=I+am+an+%22Arab+Jew%22

        “UNSC 476 deals with Jerusalem, which is the united capital of Israel and not an occupied city,”

        12 Aug 1948

        the Provisional Israeli Government proclaimed Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948

        ” and Israel will never accept a resolution which defines its capital city as occupied as binding”

        All law is binding, so too the UN Charter, They remain binding even when reaffirmed in non-binding resolutions reminding Israel of its legal obligations to those binding laws and the UN Charter.

        “I’ve answered it several times already … etc … etc … etc “

        Interesting theory.

        “There is nothing in the plain text of the agreement that can be interpreted by any reasonable person as suggesting that civilians could gain access to the holy sites only if they were “already in their respective areas”. “

        They weren’t to pass into the territory controlled by the other…

        “You like making shite up, don’t you? “

        Nope … Article IV 3. Rules and regulations of the armed forces of the Parties, which prohibit civilians from crossing the fighting lines or entering the area between the lines, shall remain in effect after the signing of this Agreement with application to the Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI.

        “This deals with civilians crossing over to the other side without authorization, which was illegal.”

        Precisely

        “The Special Committee was supposed to convene to facilitate civilians visiting holy sites on the other side under official auspices. Aside from the twice-a-month convoys to the Hebrew University and Hadassah Hospital on Mt. Scopus, the Jordanians did not honor their obligations to permit Israeli Jews access to the Western Wall or the Mount of Olives Jewish cemetery (where generations of my ancestors are buried). Oddly enough, they did allow Israeli Christians on several well-publicized occasions, with Israeli cooperation, contra your assertion that Israel banned its citizens from entering Jordanian-held territory”

        That IS why I asked this specific question – On what date was the request referred to the Special Committee for Israeli Jews?

        “Since the Special Committee was disbanded shortly after its formation and was essentially non-existent for most of the period that the Armistice Agreements were in effect between 1949-1967, it would have been somewhat difficult to present these requests to it”

        Are you trying to say the request was never made?

  18. a blah chick
    August 17, 2015, 9:19 am

    eljay sez:

    “In April of this year: Matisyahu headlining pro-Zionist festival in New Orleans ” OMG, got Hirsi Ali wannabe Chloe Valdary helped organize that.

    Also a white racist who sings reggae? Weird.

    • Mikhael
      August 19, 2015, 6:47 am

      Can’t say I have any appreciation for Matisyahu’s music but there is nothing to suggest any racist views on his part, none at all.

    • jon s
      August 20, 2015, 5:19 pm

      Kris,
      Hamas is a vicious and cowardly terrorist organization, with a racist and genocidal agenda.
      Comparing it to the Warsaw ghetto fighters is obscene and offensive.

      • amigo
        August 20, 2015, 5:43 pm

        Kris,
        Hamas is a vicious and cowardly terrorist organization, with a racist and genocidal agenda.
        Comparing it to the Warsaw ghetto fighters is obscene and offensive. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/08/flipping-looming-european#comment-151681” Jon S

        Go complain to your cowardly terrorist zionist leaders .They created Hamas who incidentally are trying to oppose zionist tyranny v Irgun /Hagannah /Lehi who used geb
        nocide against Palestinians.

        Your head is so screwed up Jon S. It seems almost criminal to have you teaching children and misinforming them and thereby destroying the rest of their lives .Shame on you.

      • Mooser
        August 20, 2015, 10:20 pm

        “Hamas is a vicious and cowardly terrorist organization, with a racist and genocidal agenda.
        Comparing it to the Warsaw ghetto fighters is obscene and offensive.”

        Sure, “Jon s” whatever might interfere with you stealing Palestine is “obscene and offensive”.

        Do you think your slimy pose of sensitivity will gain you any credibility?

      • CigarGod
        August 21, 2015, 8:32 am

        “Slimy pose.”
        perfect.

      • Kris
        August 21, 2015, 12:25 am

        jon s,

        Hamas and the Warsaw ghetto fighters are alike in the following ways: Trapped in an open-air prison, they were trying to defend their people. They were brave and desperate. Their adversaries had a powerful war machine, while the resistance fighters had only primitive weapons. Their adversaries had a genocidal and racist agenda and committed horrifying crimes against humanity which shocked the world.

        The differences between Hamas and the Warsaw ghetto fighters are: Hamas was elected in free and fair elections. The Warsaw ghetto fighters were defeated.

        I don’t see anything obscene or offensive about my analogy. Could you explain exactly what it is that you find offensive?

        By the way, jon s, how is your fund raising for the Dawabsheh family going? http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/palestinian-baby-dad-dies-settler-arson-west-bank-israel-attack-150808033822605.html

        As you may remember, you said on another thread that the government of Israel would be taking care of this family’s future, but that is not the case, and these people will need all the money you said you will be raising for them.

        Members of the Dawabsha family, whose home was torched by Jewish terrorists, will not be recognized as terror victims by the state and will not be eligible to receive compensation, Haaretz reported Monday.

        According to the report, the law stipulates that the state must compensate Israeli citizens affected by terrorism, but does not apply to Palestinians. Attorney Dan Yakir of the Association for Civil Rights in Israel noted that Jewish settlers hurt by Palestinians automatically receive compensation while Palestinians hurt by settlers do not….

        “This is another example of the intolerable disparity between settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank, in all areas of life” he said.

        The firebombing of the Dawbsha home in the West Bank village of Duma on July 31 killed an 18-month-old child and his father. The mother and a second, 4-year-old boy are still being treated in Israeli hospitals for sever burns. http://www.timesofisrael.com/firebombing-victims-said-not-eligible-for-compensation/

      • Mooser
        August 21, 2015, 12:35 pm

        “Slimy pose.”
        perfect.”

        “Jon s” is a perfect example of the dual loyalty problem Israel suffers from. When he decides that he’s made the settlements too hot to hold him, he will just scurry home to the US. What need has he of compromise? He can go for broke and double-down, since he’s got an escape route ready.
        Yup, “dual loyalty” is a big problem for Israel. People like that will push a country right over the edge of a cliff if it doesn’t meet their expectations.

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