The day after 9/11, Kagan father-son duo said ‘take the war’ to Palestine

Middle East
on 47 Comments

Here’s some radical news. A video has emerged with a montage of clips from an interview recorded the day after 9/11 featuring Donald and Frederick Kagan, two members of a leading neoconservative family. This father/son Kagan duo were advocating responding to the 9/11 attacks by invading Palestine and taking out the Palestinian Authority. Speaking of those who had attacked America, they said with assurance that we should attack Palestine. “We have to take the war to these people,” Frederick Kagan said.

Donald Kagan is a Greek scholar at Yale, so he must know! Son Frederick is at the American Enterprise Institute. The year before they’d penned a book called While America Sleeps.

(48 sec)*

Milt Rosenberg: Are you suggesting that we’ve got to go to war or rather we should..

Frederick Kagan: We are at war. We are at war. We have no option. See, I would like to see military operations commencing immediately.

Donald Kagan: The longer we go chasing around the actual perpetrators our job is going to be next to impossible.

Frederick Kagan: I didn’t say that we know exactly who conducted this attack. What I pointed out is that there are a few groups out there that are dedicated to conducting exactly this sort of attack and I said that we should attack those groups regardless of whether we know exactly which one specifically conducted this. But we hardly need any more evidence to know that it would be a very good idea to take Bin Laden out even if he had nothing to do with this.

Milt Rosenberg: He’s done enough already is your point.

Frederick Kagan: Exactly

Milt Rosenberg: Who else is?

Donald Kagan: And one key place is certainly the Palestinian Authority, these guys are at the center of all sorts of terrorist organizations that we’ve seen operate before.

Screenshot: 1:46

Screenshot: 1:46

Frederick Kagan:  And we also know furthermore where they’re located. We know that they have extensive bases in Palestine and Palestinian area. —- We have to take the war to these people, I think we should hit them immediately.

Milt Rosenberg: How? Airpower?

Frederick Kagan: No,  I would prefer to see ground forces go into Palestine and hunt out Hezbollah. I would like to see Delta Force raids,  I would like to see the panoply of covert operations —- but I would also like to see American ground forces deployed into Palestine to restore peace in that area.

Published on the new blog of Robbie Martin, named after his upcoming documentary film, A Very Heavy Agenda, Martin writes he was “archive digging” for the film when he discovered the clip from an old radio program on WGN AM, a Chicago radio station. (Martin is a radio host himself,  co-hosting Media Roots Radio with Abby Martin).

The revelation of this information is astounding.

Martin offers a brief forward on his blog– a run down on “insane warmongering neoconservatives”– mentions Frederick’s bother Robert Kagan is a co-founder of the Project for a New American Century, which proselytized the Iraq war by saying Israel’s war is our war, and married to Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland (of “Fuck the EU” fame). Speaking of marriages, Frederick is the husband of Kim Kagan, founder of the DC neocon war spinning think tank Institute for the Study of War (most famous for the Elizabeth O’Bagy scandal, and Bill Kristol is on the board of directors – what’s not to like eh?).

Martin picks up a little more transcript, the whole thing is a shocker. His headline, Neocons Fred & Don Kagan wanted a US military invasion of Palestine in response to 9/11, pretty much sums it up. The entire appearance (available here) is about 20 minutes. Martin edited down to 3 minutes using dashes where he edited it. It’s “the worst stuff they say but nothing is taken out of context,” he told me. Check it out.

 

*The transcript above is transcribed from the video, of clips edited  from the interview. Listen to the entire 20 minute interview on WGN’s Remembering 9/11, Extension 720 – September 11 and 12, 2001.

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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47 Responses

  1. Whizdom
    August 5, 2015, 6:26 pm

    Never let a crisis go to waste. My goodness, these folks are sick. Incredible they still get column space as credible observers.
    Why hasn’t Ms. Nuland been fired from State?

    • echinococcus
      August 6, 2015, 2:20 am

      Are you well? Fire her when she is so successful? Ms Nuland has done exactly was she had been ordered to do, i.e. murder and mayhem. Many billions worth of it, enough to hang that harpy, or whatever is being done nowadays in war crimes courts, along with the other criminals against humanity.

    • Keith
      August 6, 2015, 5:54 pm

      WHIZDOM- “Why hasn’t Ms. Nuland been fired from State?”

      Because she enjoys the full support of the President as she designs and implements imperial policy?

  2. a blah chick
    August 5, 2015, 6:46 pm

    Frederick Kagan: No, I would prefer to see ground forces go into Palestine and hunt out Hezbollah. I would like to see Delta Force raids, I would like to see the panoply of covert operations but I would also like to see American ground forces deployed into Palestine to restore peace in that area.

    Ya know, I’m kind of sorry this goofy idea didn’t come to past, because the visuals would have been spectacular. Imagine American battleships docked in Haifa harbor, our glorious GI’s disembarking and then gently pushing the IDF personel aside, rolling up their sleeves and saying “stand aside, boys and let some REAL MEN deal with these terr’ists!”

    The fist fights would have been epic.

  3. just
    August 5, 2015, 7:18 pm

    Part of the huge cabal that controls too much and too many in the US.

    A mafia family of the worst sort, advocating ‘hitting’ people even if they had nothing to do with 9/11. PNAC pukes with their fingerprints all over US foreign policy debacles.

    “Neocons Fred & Don Kagan wanted a US military invasion of Palestine in response to 9/11”

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Invade Palestine? For what and who and why? For Israel.

    So what did Bushco do? Rampaged through and ravaged Afghanistan and then Iraq.

    Where did the hijackers come from? Neither place.

    Thanks, Annie. This is “astounding”, indeed. These people pose a danger to the US and should be shunned at the very least.

    • K Renner
      August 13, 2015, 6:20 pm

      ” Rampaged through and ravaged Afghanistan ”

      Barring the fact that the war in Afghanistan was improperly handled, and the fact that it became a side-show after 2003 and the whole Iraq debacle, the “adventure” in Afghanistan was by no means the “morally wrong” thing to do, outside of the fact that they shouldn’t ever have taken their eyes off of it after the Soviets left.

      Afghanistan had been ravaged for years by 2001. Doesn’t excuse any mistakes that were made on the part of ISAF, but that’s just the fact. Afghanistan and Iraq, to my mind, are two completely different issues and it’s disingenuous to pretend that the first was exactly the same as the second.

      I’m a very vocal critic of America, in terms of a whole lot of American policy internationally and nationally. But not absolutely everything America does is wrong or morally abhorrent.

      Intervening in the Yugoslav wars wasn’t. Ostensibly, the Afghanistan war wasn’t, although as I said there are a hell of a lot of things that could’ve been done better.

      • fluorescentgrey
        August 15, 2015, 6:46 pm

        Vehemently disagree that the Afghanistan war was in any way shape or form a justifiable war. You don’t need to be a ‘truther’ to find the rationale for invading afghanistan abhorrent as well as fictional, will be posting about this subject on my blog soon

  4. Helena Cobban
    August 5, 2015, 7:55 pm

    Geeat catch, Robbie & Annie! But omg the Kagans are so stupid: Fred says US mil shd go to Palestine to take out *Hizbollah*? But how on warth do these maniacs even have any credibility??

    • just
      August 5, 2015, 8:07 pm

      It just goes to prove their mindset~ every one and every thing is their enemy. They’re counting on a compliant, incurious audience.

      Very like Netanyahu:

      “Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu warned against the rising tide of extremism in the world on Sunday, asserting that the Islamic State, Hamas, al-Qaida, the Nusra Fronta, Boko Haram and Hezbollah are all “branches of the same poison tree.””

      http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-ISIS-Hamas-al-Qaida-all-branches-of-the-same-poison-tree-375287

    • Annie Robbins
      August 5, 2015, 8:08 pm

      you noticed that too? lol. i’m assuming they were just trying to dupe americans. nobody could be that clueless — could they?

    • JLewisDickerson
      August 5, 2015, 8:28 pm

      RE: “But how on earth do these maniacs even have any credibility??”

      HERE’S HOW IT’S DONE:
      Merchants of Doubt, 2015 PG-13 93 mins
      Average of 3214 ratings: 3.6 stars (out of 5)
      This revealing documentary examines the network of scientific “experts” paid by major corporations to spread disinformation about looming environmental threats, including chemical pollution and global climate change.
      Netflix listing (DVD only, not yet available for streaming) – http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Merchants-of-Doubt/80013700
      Internet Movie Database (7.4/10) – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3675568/

    • bintbiba
      August 6, 2015, 6:21 am

      ‘Insane’ ? …. ”The Kagans are so stupid” …. Take out Hizbollah in Palestine?

      I don’t know whether to laugh or cry , honestly! Stupid, pathetic… = dangerous !

      And these people are allowed to have some kind of public platform ?
      America…. when will you wake up and smell the putrid sewage wafting through your beautiful land… while America sleeps !! ( If that was a pun… not intended. I’m not all that smart !!)

      Just very , very angry . I get rude when I’m angry.

      • ivri
        August 7, 2015, 5:16 pm

        @Bintbiba “America…when will you wake up and smell the putrid sewage”
        Well, it actually already did except that it is another sewage type that it is really alarmed with.

  5. W.Jones
    August 5, 2015, 8:49 pm

    Anti-Palestinian networks tried to associate Palestinians with the attack in two major ways. First, soon after the attack, there were announcements that some underground Palestinian group was behind the attack, but within a few days those claims ceased. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find now where I read about this. Basically, for the first day or so the news had a few reports that the attackers were some Palestinian organization, as I remember. And sometime around then the Palestinian Authority cracked down on an alQaeda group that the P.A. claimed was actually some kind of fake Israeli undercover group.

    Second, video footage was put out of Palestinians allegedly celebrating 911 in the streets. Generally these were videos of kids jumping for candy, so to the untrained eye, it wasn’t necessarily clear what was happening. Watching more carefully, in the videos Arabs are going about their business as normal in the streets, but it looks like someone comes along and throws candy at some kinds and they start jumping for it. Meanwhile, the rest of the people don’t seem to care. So it can easily be a staged video. Why else would someone be there with a camera filming it and then distributing it to the press?

    In another video there is some lady praising O.B.L. to a camera in some ecstatic way, while everybody else on the street walks by her and doesn’t care at all. It’s a very strange video, and it isn’t clear if the lady actually thought this way or if it was staged and then used for the press. It certainly wasn’t made for Palestinian news, since the PA opposed the attacks, and Hamas wasn’t nearly in power at that point (2001).

    “The woman who is remembered for her cheering (Nowel Abdel Fatah) later stated she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera. At the time, she was unaware of the 9/11 attacks and said she was frightened when she saw the pictures on television of how she was being portrayed to the world.”
    https://kendoc911.wordpress.com/911disinfo/misc-disinfo/disinfo-palestinians-cheering-the-911-attacks/

    • talknic
      August 6, 2015, 3:19 am

      @ W.Jones

      “Second, video footage was put out of Palestinians allegedly celebrating 911 in the streets”

      There was nothing in the video visually or sound other than the reporter telling us what to believe …

    • Walker
      August 6, 2015, 4:29 pm

      That video was replayed about every five minutes for a week on CNN.

    • fluorescentgrey
      August 15, 2015, 6:51 pm

      do you know where the website kendoc911.wordpress.com got the claim about Dov Zakheim being the specific author to write ‘a new pearl harbor’? I asked over twitter but didn’t get an answer. I believe it to be a false claim that has been repeated so much online that it’s assumed to be true based on no evidence.
      Thomas Donnelly claims he ‘wrote’ the line in the document, but as far as being the originator of the phrase or idea, based on my research the originator of the phrase as well as the primary person who injected it into the document ‘Rebuilding america’s defenses’ was Don Kagan, not Dov Zakheim or Thomas Donnelly. You can find evidence for this based on the writings of Don Kagan leading up to the 9/11 attacks.

  6. fluorescentgrey
    August 5, 2015, 9:15 pm

    You can find the first mention of Palestine on the day of 9/11 going to the Wikileaks pager data leaked from the day of. It includes Reuters wire-service updates. One from around 9:55 and another at 10:34 (might not be remembering the exact times, but do a CTRL+F in the archives for palestine) both say that a Palestinian group has taken credit for the attacks (which was of course later proven to be a false report).

  7. Blownaway
    August 5, 2015, 9:53 pm

    It might take something like Israel blowing up the nuke deal to really do damage to themselves. Every where I read articles and reader commentary it’s very hostile to netanyahu’s interference. In any event this is very illuminating to the silent majority about who’s driving the DC bus. If there really is a war it will be even worse. Chances are the rest of the world will go along Iran will get their money the U.S. Will be shut out and the non existent bomb program will continue to be non existent. But China Russia Great Britain and France will laugh all the way to the bank

  8. italian ex-pat
    August 5, 2015, 10:49 pm

    Wow. They really referred to it as “Palestine”? As in “State of”? I thought it was ALL Israel, and the Palestinians an invented people.
    So, if it was “Palestine” in 2001, how is it that, 14 years later, it’s called Judea and Samaria, and home to half a million Israelis?

  9. Citizen
    August 6, 2015, 2:59 am

    Thanks for this information, Annie. It’s disgusting, frightening characters like these Kagen neocons have such influence.

  10. RoHa
    August 6, 2015, 5:14 am

    “Frederick Kagan: No, I would prefer to see ground forces go into Palestine and hunt out Hezbollah.”

    I’m sure they would find that easier than going to Lebanon and actually facing Hezbollah.

    • druid
      August 6, 2015, 3:48 pm

      And neither him, his son, family members, or other Zionazis will do the fighting. They will let Americans die on their behalf as usual.

  11. Boomer
    August 6, 2015, 6:15 am

    Thanks for this. It is important as documentation, yet not really news for those who have been paying attention.

    • fluorescentgrey
      August 6, 2015, 6:41 pm

      If you can find a single instance in which this has been reported before please let me know.
      I thought i’d been ‘paying attention’ too and was still floored when i found this clip

      • just
        August 6, 2015, 7:04 pm

        It’s definitely news to me, and I’ve been paying close attention!

        (If it had been known, it would have been brought up many times before)

  12. CigarGod
    August 6, 2015, 9:28 am

    So, at age 25, Frederick…with no military service I can find…is teaching military history at west point.
    Those poor young minds…

    • Keith
      August 6, 2015, 5:39 pm

      CIGARGOD- “So, at age 25, Frederick…with no military service I can find…is teaching military history at west point.”

      How better to indoctrinate future military officers with neocon militarism? The whole neocon Kagan family is deeply imbedded in the corridors of military influence and power. Gen. David Petraeus seems to have been quite taken with them. Below is a quote and link to Robert Parry. Check out the picture of Petraeus and Kimberly Kagan. Now you don’t suppose that Kimberly had undue influence with David, do you? Mossad involvement?

      “How tight Petraeus’s relationship was with two neocons in particular, Frederick and Kimberly Kagan, was explored in a Washington Post article by war correspondent Rajiv Chandrasekaran who described how Petraeus installed the husband-and-wife team in U.S. offices in Kabul, granted them top-secret clearances and let them berate military officers about war strategy.” (Robert Parry) https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/09/neocons-guided-petraeus-on-afghan-war-2/

      For additional reportage on the rest of the Kagans (Robert Kagan and Victoria Nuland):
      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42430.htm

      • CigarGod
        August 6, 2015, 10:01 pm

        My Stalinist tendancies stir when I read stuff like this.

  13. Kay24
    August 6, 2015, 9:43 am

    It seems the zionist viciousness can still be felt and seen today:

    Unexploded Israeli Bomb Reportedly Kills 4 in Gaza
    Around 30 wounded in Rafah after dud leftover from Gaza conflict blew up during attempts to clear debris left over from the fighting.
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/beta/1.669871

    • Annie Robbins
      August 6, 2015, 11:16 am

      dud leftover from Gaza conflict blew up during attempts to clear debris left over from the fighting.

      not sure i believe that.

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 11:34 am

        I thought bombs that were Duds are unable to explode and ineffective. Therefore this was not a “Dud”. Just like the zio propaganda to label it this way.

      • druid
        August 6, 2015, 3:49 pm

        Very true!

    • tree
      August 6, 2015, 4:58 pm

      A “dud” is simply the name for a bomb that fails to detonate when deployed. It still has explosive material in it, and a fuse or trigger of some type, and therefore could be accidentally triggered at any time.

      Here’s a report specific to cluster bombs explaining “dud rates” and such:

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/10/17/desirable-duds/

      • tree
        August 6, 2015, 5:15 pm

        Unexploded ordinance, or “duds:”are a serious problem in war-torn areas, even decades after the wars are over, and dealing with them is always a dangerous task.

        Here’s a report on a recent occurrence in Germany when an American unexploded bomb was discovered.

        http://www.wsj.com/articles/german-city-evacuated-after-unexploded-world-war-ii-bomb-is-found-1432743938

        Vietnam and Iraq also have serious unexploded ordinance problems, “courtesy” of the US.

      • just
        August 6, 2015, 5:22 pm

        Thanks, tree.

        “Afghans live in peril among unexploded Nato bombs that litter countryside
        Ordnance left by parting international troops kills or injures about 40 people a month – the vast majority children

        International troops pulling out of Afghanistan have left behind a lethal legacy of unexploded bombs and shells that are killing and maiming people at a rate of more than one a day. The vast majority are children.

        Bombs dropped from the air coupled with munitions left behind in makeshift firing ranges in rural Afghanistan have made parts of the countryside perilous for locals who are used to working the land for subsistence and raw materials.

        Since 2001, the coalition has dropped about 20,000 tonnes of ammunition over Afghanistan. Experts say about 10% of munitions do not detonate: some malfunction, others land on sandy ground. Foreign soldiers have also used valleys, fields and dry riverbeds as firing ranges and left them peppered with undetonated ammunition.

        Statistics from the UN-backed Mine Action Coordination Centre of Afghanistan (Macca) show there were 369 casualties in the past year, including 89 deaths. The rate rose significantly in October and November when 93 people were injured, 84 of them children. Twenty died. …

        … Much of the fighting in Afghanistan has taken place in and around residential areas, increasing the risk of civilian casualties in the aftermath of the war. UK and US diplomats emphasise that international law does not give their countries a responsibility to clear battlefields. But that does not absolve Nato countries of their duty to clean up after themselves, said Rashid.

        “It is a moral responsibility,” he said, adding that scattering unstable explosives around the country defeats the initial purpose of the war. “Military intervention is the last resort, and it’s intended to protect people and stabilise the country,” he said.

        According to officials in Afghanistan, western governments became more aware of the risks of unexploded ammunition after a spate of accidents, and subsequent critical media reports, in 2013. …”

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/29/afghans-lives-in-peril-unexploded-bombs

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 6:12 pm

        Let us not forget the cluster bombs left by the zionists when they bombed civilian areas in Lebanon. Kids were being blown up months later. I wonder how the zionists would feel if someone did the same to them. They have nasty habits.

      • Bumblebye
        August 6, 2015, 7:41 pm

        Unexploded ordnance from World War One still takes lives. I think it was early last year (maybe the year before) that a construction worker in either Belgium or the Netherlands was killed. (Perhaps commenter “Dutch” would know? Or Elisabeth?)

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 3:47 am

        WW2 mines are still a major obstacle to the development of the coastal strip from Alex to Tobruk. Egypt Is the most heavily mined county in the world, but Libya and Tunisia have to spend a lot of time and money clearing up old minefields as well. The mines, as well as old shells and bombs, still kill and wound people. No-one knows how many are left.

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 4:31 am

        I will add that, if you find an unexploded WW2 German bomb in your back garden, you can learn how to defuse it from James May’s splendid book
        How to Land an A330 Airbus: And Other Vital Skills for the Modern Man.

        http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Land-A330-Airbus-Skills/dp/0340994584

        Full instructions, demonstrated by an Army expert.

        It’s been a while since I read it, so all I recall is that you need to wear a British Army pullover and fix the bomb with a steely glare, but I’m pretty sure there was a bit more to it. Read the book before you try it yourself.

  14. unverified__5ilf90kd
    August 6, 2015, 10:15 am

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/03/the-case-of-alison-weir-two-palestinian-solidarity-organizations-borrow-from-joe-mccarthys-playbook/

    Even liberal Zionist and Anti-ZIonist organizations can be Trojan Horses for right wing nuts to crease havoc.

  15. Curatica
    August 6, 2015, 10:27 am

    The Prince of Darkness covers America and the world with a maze of poisonous malignancy. Confusion, hysteria, hatred and violence spread by people like these and many others like them will soon bring an end to humankind.

  16. John Fearey
    August 6, 2015, 12:15 pm

    Not very scholarly or responsible are they? Frederick teaches military history at West Point? That’s depressing. The video is fascinating as an insight into how people will leverage crisis for their own ends, something which supporters of Israel are adept at doing although thankfully not in this case. Instead we destroyed Iraq. Advocating that US troops, Delta Force, fight the Palestinians is breathtakingly outrageous, but so revealing (along with the rest of their claptrap). Thanks Annie

  17. John Fearey
    August 6, 2015, 12:50 pm

    Actually, I’m not so sure about the “adept” part. cheers.

  18. Bornajoo
    August 7, 2015, 3:12 am

    Many thanks for this Annie.
    These people really are dangerous psychopaths.

    “Never let a crisis go to waste” (Whizdom)

    OT, but it reminds me of Netanyahu when he said:

    “Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China [Tiananmen Square], when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories.”
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2009/03/2009325171634815939

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