The way for Americans to take on the Islamic state is to end support for Jewish nationalism

Middle East
on 245 Comments

At last night’s Democratic debate in Iowa, Bernie Sanders responded to the Paris horror saying that we have to rid the earth of ISIS, that there’s a war for the soul of Islam, and the Muslim nations have to get their hands dirty too.

These belligerent and self-righteous statements are concerning because once again American leaders, and American Jews, are pure innocence when it comes to the religious dimension of the Middle East conflict. The hypocrisy would be appalling were it not so functional: the biggest impediment to both the reform of Islam and peace in the Middle East that Americans have the ability to remove is our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted.

This understanding dinned in on Americans after the last big shocker, 9/11. At that time some observers pointed out a simple truth: that Osama bin Laden and his radical little army were motivated by the occupation of Palestine as well as the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia. But that idea was suppressed. They hate us because of our freedom, became the watchword, and the Bush administration’s foreign policy turned into a neoconservative war policy guided by the same ideologues who had lately advised the Israeli Prime Minister to end the peace process and move the Arabs over, from Palestine to Jordan, from Jordan to Iraq. The 9/11 Commission concluded that US policy in Palestine was part of the motivation for the attacks, but that analysis was whittled down to a few sentences– even as the head of the commission said that the Iraq war was launched to protect Israel. (And Condi Rice said the war would provide “strategic relief” to Israel and Colin Powell said it was dreamed up by the Zionist thinktank the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs).

Last night Sanders pointed out that that war, authored by Hillary Clinton and George Bush, among others, is what destroyed Iraq and led to the rise of ISIS. No doubt this is the case; but the analysis is insufficient till it includes the fact that the war was dreamed up and fomented by neoconservatives like Bill Kristol and Jeffrey Goldberg, whose chief concern is the stability of Israel. Americans have never had that discussion; but it is more urgent than ever now that Syria is no more and Europe is reaping the harvest. Yes, that political discussion took place in the shadows. But Walt and Mearsheimer were vilified as anti-semites for making the case that the Israel lobby was the crucial element in starting that war; and the left tiptoed away from the analysis. And this blog– for which the Iraq war was the core issue– began after my brother told me that he had demonstrated against the Vietnam War but his Jewish newspaper said this war might be good for Israel; and this blog got pushed out the door at the New York Observer, then the Nation Institute.

Bernie Sanders and I both opposed the Iraq war. Most American Jews opposed it. But Sanders’s assertion that there is a war for the soul of Islam is hollow, cheap and condescending so long as he and the mainstream Jewish community continue to suppress the war for the soul of Judaism. That war is happening all around us in the margins; but the west will not be able to rid the earth of ISIS and the radical Islamism that we are told is not Islam (believe me, I can’t wait for their demise) till we conduct a similar scathing inventory of Jewish political beliefs.

Sanders is of course not religious an atheist. But the biggest political event of his young life, maybe his entire life, his older brother says, was the news of the Holocaust when he was a boy. After college, Sanders went to Israel before he went to Vermont, and worked on a kibbutz; the same hegira undertaken by many other Jewish leftists, including Noam Chomsky and Tony Judt. Smart men, but there was surely a utopian belief on all their parts; many Jews believed in the establishment of the Jewish state as a redemptive act of history. “It is difficult to assess which of the two miracles was greater– the miracle of [Israeli] independence or the miracle of [international Jewish] unity,” the socialist atheist David Ben-Gurion wrote. Countless Jews refer to Israel as a miracle, from Jeffrey Goldberg to Ari Shavit, and Chaim Weizmann, Jeremy Ben-Ami, and Leonard Nimoy, too. Not to mention Barack Obama and Marco Rubio.

The leading American political theorist Michael Walzer says that the long and continuous Jewish political tradition that produced Israel is derived from the bible, the story of Exodus. He writes:

Its point of departure is always the Hebrew bible…. [Its] big issues [are] election or ‘chosenness’, the holiness of the Land of Israel, the experience of exile, and the hope for redemption….That tradition begins with God’s authority, with divine rule and divine revelations. Exactly how much room there is for human authority and decision making is always a question.

And you’re worried about Christian evangelists? But Walzer is a leading authority on Israel in allegedly secular publications like the New York Review of Books!

Michael Walzer

Michael Walzer

Golda Meir famously said that she was an atheist because she didn’t believe in God; but she did believe in the Jewish people. Ben-Gurion said that the “Sinai covenant” with God had produced the miracle of Israel’s birth. Thus Jewish nationalism (Zionism) was infused from the start with religious ideas. And the creation of Israel always had a religious character for many Jews: a faith so core that it gave life meaning, a faith so strong that it overruled reality. The former SDS leader Todd Gitlin says that Jews are a chosen people: they have “an unshakable attachment to the wild idea of divine election, which, however dampened, however sublimated, continues to ripple beneath the surface of everyday events.”

Till it doesn’t just ripple and goes, Ka-Boom! That’s the sound of suicide bombers in Paris and Baghdad, and the sound of Jewish terrorists blowing up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem to get rid of the British.

All those terrorists are religious nationalists who have some Michael-Walzer-like belief in God’s guidance of their ethnocentric designs. But our world is too small to look on chosenness as anything but a dangerous philosophy.

Count me out of this religious tradition. An anti-Zionist in the war for the soul of Judaism, I call on all American Jews to examine how much of their support or tolerance of a Jewish state has a religious character– in the vision of Jewish agency as a redemptive historical force and answer to the Holocaust and the Jewish question in Europe. Secular Jews who prize their freedom in the United States must come to grips with the ideas of Jewish superiority and uniqueness that have propelled Zionist landgrabs and Jim Crow across Palestine to this day. Secular Jews who celebrated the Egyptian peace treaty and Oslo accords must reckon with their celebration of deals in which 80 million Arabs were put on ice in Egypt by the west and another 6 million in Palestine just so the Jewish state could continue in peace. Neoconservatives must come to terms with their promotion of a war that would stabilize Israel by destroying the great Arab cities of Baghdad, Damascus and Aleppo so far, with hundreds of thousands of Muslim victims–whose national colors are not displayed in grief on the Empire State Building, the Freedom Tower, or the Sydney Opera House. Till we undertake that inventory, there won’t be peace in the Middle East, or the west either.

Yesterday James North and I wrote here that we’re not monocausal; even if there was justice in Palestine it would not end Islamist violence. I stand by that point. But the ultimate question is the one Bernie Sanders raised last night, What can we do to end the religious element of the conflicts in the Middle East? And the answer is that Jews must end their support for Zionism, which has turned out to be religious, fascistic and militant, and is fueling rage across the Middle East and further.

How long can Jews not have this conversation? Hannah Arendt wrote in 1944 that opposition to Zionism drew on great understandings: the “realization of the fatal, utopian hyperbole of the demand for a Jewish commonwealth and a rejection of the idea of making all Jewish politics in Palestine dependent on the protection of great powers.” The realization of the fatal, utopian part is still the Jewish struggle 70 years later: Arendt is pointedly excluded from Michael Walzer’s retinue of the “Jewish political tradition.” Because of the inward self-governing structure of the Jewish community, anyone who says that apartheid is apartheid is a heretic who must be excommunicated; but even if you conclude that it has all the elements of apartheid, as Peter Beinart told Rabbi Sharon Brous in a Los Angeles synagogue last week, well you must support it, you must not boycott it, you must describe it as a democracy. These are foolish claims that you can only maintain in a religious space, or one from which Palestinian Americans and anti-Zionist Jews are segregated, which is to say, every Jewish establishment space in the United States, from J Street to the 92d Street Y to AIPAC to Terry Gross’s radio show. And God bless Jewish Voice for Peace.

The other illusion Arendt tried to blow up, and Walt and Mearsheimer too, was that Israel was finished if it depended on great powers, rather than the acceptance of its neighbors. That dependence was one that the State Department deprecated from the start. If the U.S. helps to establish a Jewish state in Palestine, that state will be dependent on the U.S. and it will lead to endless unrest, State’s realists said. Secretary of State George Marshall threatened to vote against his president if he went through with the decision to recognize Israel; but the nascent Israel lobby was already delivering in the ’48 election, and its vote counted more.

While Harry Truman’s predecessor Franklin Roosevelt surely saw Paris coming when he said of two leading rabbis who came into the White House to urge a Jewish state in 1944:

To think of it, two men, two holy men, coming here to ask me to let millions of people be killed in a jihad.

It was an American problem then and it’s an American problem now. We have set aside our own secular values when it comes to the Middle East. We should stop lecturing Muslims about their backward ideas till we reckon with our own.

Thanks to Scott Roth, Donald Johnson and James North.

245 Responses

  1. ivri
    November 15, 2015, 11:54 am

    Is it not more than just a bit of exaggeration – no matter how purportedly morally-intentioned – to suggest that attitudes to such a narrow agenda as “Jewish nationalism” can have a meaningful impact on what is essentially a historical-global agenda? One that mainly involves Europe and the Arab world (plus Islam) – now also the US and others – and has its roots in historical developments and narratives? And is just as much anchored in what modernity is about and its associated globalization process?

    • Mooser
      November 15, 2015, 12:18 pm

      “to suggest that attitudes to such a narrow agenda as “Jewish nationalism”

      Sure, “Irvi” such a “narrow agenda” Zionism has. So now you are going to try the old ‘there’s nobody here, but us chickens!’ routine?

      • kalithea
        November 15, 2015, 7:45 pm

        Chickens with an arsenal of hundreds of nuclear weapons. Zionism makes no sense; Israel is a cesspool of ‘scuse my French: shit disturbance for the entire Middle East and as a consequence for all Western nations.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 3:54 pm

        It’s easy pickins’…

        BTW, we’ve got chickens again.

    • John O
      November 15, 2015, 12:22 pm

      No.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 15, 2015, 12:25 pm

      to suggest that … “Jewish nationalism” can have a meaningful impact on … a historical-global agenda? One that mainly involves Europe and the Arab world (plus Islam)

      this is crazy talk ivri. what’s next, are you going to make the argument “Jewish nationalism” has nothing to do w/israel’s lobby breathing down the neck of every elected legislator? and “Jewish nationalism” is divorced from the neocon agenda/american intervention in the ME, continually promoted by neocons? crazy talk.

      it’s everywhere link to nytimes.com

      “Events in Iraq Open Door for Interventionist Revival, Historian Says — Robert Kagan Strikes a Nerve ….”

      A decade after their fierce advocacy for the war in Iraq largely discredited neoconservatives like Paul D. Wolfowitz and Richard N. Perle, who argued most loudly for democracy exportation through military power, Mr. Kagan is hardly apologetic about the current mess. Instead, he believes that the widespread frustration over Mr. Obama’s disengagement despite the resurgence of organized terrorist groups in the region has created the climate to again make the case for interventionism.

      And who better to lead a cast of assorted hawks back into intellectual — and they hope eventually political — influence than the congenial and well-respected scion of one of America’s first families of interventionism?

      His father, Donald Kagan, a historian of ancient Greece, is a patriarch of neoconservatism. His brother, Fred, is a military scholar who helped conceive the American troop increase in Iraq in 2007. His wife and unofficial editor, Victoria Nuland, is an assistant secretary of state and one of the country’s toughest and most experienced diplomats, whose fervor for building democracy in Ukraine recently leaked out in an embarrassing audio clip. And Mr. Kagan, who often works in a book-lined studio of his cedar home here in the Washington suburbs, exudes a Cocoa-Puffs-pouring, stay-at-home-dad charm.

      “A very nice family,” said William Kristol, a family friend and the founder of the conservative Weekly Standard, whose father, Irving, is another of neoconservatism’s father figures and one of Robert’s first bosses.

      Mr. Kristol said he, too, sensed “more willingness to rethink” neoconservatism, which he called “vindicated to some degree” by the fruits of Mr. Obama’s detached approach to Syria and Eastern Europe. Mr. Kagan, he said, gives historical heft to arguments “that are very consistent with the arguments I made, and he made, 20 years ago, 10 years ago.”

      Mr. Kagan, 55, prefers the term “liberal interventionist” to the neoconservative label, but believes the latter no longer has the stigma it did in the early days of the Obama presidency. “The sort of desire to say ‘Neocon! Neocon! Neocon!’ has moved out a little bit to the fringe,” he said.
      …….

      “I feel comfortable with her on foreign policy,” Mr. Kagan said, adding that the next step after Mr. Obama’s more realist approach “could theoretically be whatever Hillary brings to the table” if elected president. “If she pursues a policy which we think she will pursue,” he added, “it’s something that might have been called neocon, but clearly her supporters are not going to call it that; they are going to call it something else.”

      • a4tech
        November 15, 2015, 12:37 pm

        Annie, the faults of the Israeli manifestation of Jewish nationalism is pretty open for everyone to see and recognize.

        However, what about the other form of nationalism that is occupying the indigenous lands of Native Americans, native Hawaiians, and Native Mexicans and occupying the lives and bodies of African Americans?

        Once Israel is done, what do you propose about this monster?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 12:42 pm

        what do i propose? i propose we stay on topic. speaking of which, do you have any commentary on the topic aside from informing us everyone can see and recognize the faults of Israeli manifestation of Jewish nationalism?

        and if that’s your view, why not direct it to ivri? he seems to disagree.

      • Mooser
        November 15, 2015, 12:48 pm

        “a4tech” concerning the Paris bombings:

        “This is just a tip of the tip of the iceberg of Israel’s government criminal activity. There are large amount of circumstantial and logical evidence that the same government played a major role in the current ISIS terror reign in the Middle East, the recent Beirut bombings, the assasination of Hariri, the Charlie Hebdo attacks and lastly the Paris terror attacks yesterday.” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        “What do you propose about this monster?”

      • oldgeezer
        November 15, 2015, 1:33 pm

        @a4

        You sure tend to spout a lot of zionist talking points.

      • a4tech
        November 15, 2015, 1:46 pm

        Oldgeezer, it is definitely not my intention to appear to spout Zionist BS by stating all oppression are connected and calling into attention the opportunism of using IP conflict as a distraction from the equally worst oppression occurring in the American state.

        The roots that provides sustenance to the Israeli regime is deep in the soils of America. I believe to brush off this fact is akin to being complicit to the same crimes Israel is being accused of.

      • eljay
        November 15, 2015, 1:57 pm

        || oldgeezer: @a4

        You sure tend to spout a lot of zionist talking points. ||

        Pretty impressive for a Muslim, eh? (And you know he’s Muslim because in another thread he quoted the Qur’an.)

      • Mooser
        November 15, 2015, 2:23 pm

        “The roots that provides sustenance to the Israeli regime is deep in the soils of America.”

        Oh wow, “a4tech” is one of those “America is the great Satan” guys! I never thought in my life, I would get to talk to a radical like that! This is so cool! So, how’d you feel when the Towers came down, “a4tech”? Was “a4” the kind of explosive used?

        “I believe to brush off this fact is akin to being complicit to the same crimes Israel is being accused of.”

        That’s why the link-up between Palestinian Solidarity and BLM is such a natural. Happy now?

      • oldgeezer
        November 15, 2015, 3:11 pm

        @a4tech

        All oppression is connected insofar as it is wrong. Beyond that the causes, effects and extents differ.

        ” equally worst ”

        An oxymoron. Is it equal or worse?

        ” equally worst “

      • kalithea
        November 15, 2015, 9:43 pm

        The Plan is still on schedule despite the minor hiccup Obama and will be full speed ahead with Hillary at the helm, but both are just puppets for Neoconservative-disguised Zionism.

        The Zionist promoters of the Iraq War literally created the heir apparent to Osama-bin-Laden:

        Baghdadi fought in some capacity with Sunni militant groups after the U.S. invasion of Iraq but was arrested in 2005 and interred by U.S. forces at Camp Bucca, the main U.S. detention facility after the closing of Abu Ghraib. He wasn’t considered much of a threat and was released in 2009. The former commanding officer of Camp Bucca recently told the Daily Beast that when Baghdadi was released, he told his captors, “I’ll see you guys in New York.”

        link to slate.com

        Robert Kagan is one of the authors along with William Kristol of PNAC and author of the Benevolent Empire espousing the virtues of Imperial Supremacy but I have to wonder: is he really referring to American Imperialism or Imperial Zionist Supremacy? There’s going to be massive bloodshed before that benevolent empire is fully established.

        Robert Kagan is also a foreign policy advisor to Hillary Clinton and Kagan also serves on the State Department’s Foreign Affairs Policy Board under Secretaries of State Hillary Clinton and John Kerry.(source: wiki)
        No wonder things are screwed up under Obama with this fanatic influencing foreign policy.

        The Zionist Neo-plan will be carried forward by the corrupt two-party system.

        Translation: we’re doomed.

      • traintosiberia
        November 15, 2015, 11:06 pm

        Neocons have destroyed hopes and dreams of a sizable number of human population across Arab,US,and Europe. They also have succeeded in driving a wedge between Islam and Christianity and between America and Europe . They destroyed the GOP as a party . Their intervention abroad have generated equally destructive intervention within . The atmosphere has beome palpably more violent intolerant,paranoid,and entitled along the way the ear effort have forced the abandonment of any hope for millions of youths .If they puld they would have got America in a war with Russia ,China Venezueala,and Iran. Their hope is that like W Clinton ,Hilary would be ready to strike at countries that neocons don’t like . But the play book of neocon doesn’t ask for attack . They create the situation for an attack. They don’t tell public that it is time for war . They make the public think in terms of war becoming a necessarry evil ,a tough choice , a noble act for the peace loving America . They wail and mourn so that people take notice of the psychological agony they are experiencing over the lack of Americn leadership in addressing the curable pain certain segment of humanity somewhere is facing .
        This is the way they prepare people for negative judgement on foreign leaders ,countries,cultures and religion. War then becomes easy choice to pick as a solution to some imagined threat . Both are often tied – security for America and relief for the hostage population abroad .
        They also depend on the memory lapses and on intellectual slowness of the citizen . Both were so clearly evident when a charlaton like Carson ( GOP front runner) received plaudits and hand clapping for saying that 911 was a small non significant historical footnote compated to the threat of IS . He was not challenged . Neocons know history is something that could be disappeared and created in and out of thin air respectively depending on the need of the hour .

        Every label and each metaphor that have been hurled at the terrorist could be hurled at the neocon . They self radicalize themselves in pursuit of new war They have no respect for life . They hate reality and truth . They carry the self conscious victimhood psycholgy . They believe they know what is best for the rest . They push and alter the rules . They misquote . They juxtapose and decontextualize .

      • inbound39
        November 16, 2015, 4:44 am

        What a4tech conveniently ignores and many right wing settler supporters do is that when America was conquered the Right of Conquest was valid. Right of Conquest was abolished at the termination of WW2 due to the many problems German Occupation and conquest caused. Namely hundreds of thousands of dispossessed and stateless Jews. Were it not for the Right of Conquest being outlawed you could extrapolate from that that Israel would never have come into being. Phillip is correct in his article as is Annie. Israel is the cause on=f much of the unrest. Israel bombs Arab states at will and colonizes where it chooses and is exempt from the same laws the rest of the World is expected and does conform to. Israel claims to be Democratic yet when the UN takes a Democratic vote and issues a Resolution against unacceptable Israeli International Law breaking Israel chooses to be Dictatorial and refuses to abide by Democracy.

      • echinococcus
        November 16, 2015, 6:07 am

        Inbound,

        Check out the Treaties of Westphalia, 1648.
        You may be right in that colonization wasn’t seen as conquest in those times –just as slaves weren’t seen as persons.

        Anyway, once Nazism was stamped out all the displaced and “stateless” Jews had a home to return to, no need for any novelties. The displaced persons remained as a problem only because US propaganda was pretending that the socialist countries post-WWII were not to be considered as countries to return to.

      • Kathleen
        November 16, 2015, 9:08 am

        However only in the last 10 years have more people been willing to talk about it openly. Many Jewish organizations have kept the licked shut down hard on this issue

      • Boo
        November 16, 2015, 2:32 pm

        @a4tech: “However, what about the other form of nationalism that is occupying the indigenous lands of … native Hawaiians”

        As a native Hawaiian, of course I’d love to see redressed the many wrongs done to us beginning with the US-backed 1893 mercantilist coup that overthrew our monarchy.

        But as a citizen of the world, I feel the modern-day, ever-worsening oppression of the Palestinian people and ongoing theft of their land and resources are much more urgent issues upon which to focus our efforts.

        Besides, who says I have to limit myself to one cause or the other? I can work for justice simultaneously both here at home and abroad — yes, we Hawaiians can both walk and eat poi at the same time!

      • zaid
        November 16, 2015, 5:45 pm

        “But as a citizen of the world, I feel the modern-day, ever-worsening oppression of the Palestinian people and ongoing theft of their land and resources are much more urgent issues upon which to focus our efforts.”

        You are a noble man.

    • JWalters
      November 15, 2015, 7:59 pm

      “has its roots in historical developments and narratives” – ivri

      The current problems indeed have their roots in historical developments and narratives. Blowback Muslim attacks on America and Europe were predicted by the U.S. Secretary of Defense back when Israel was established. The “militant Jewish ideology” of Zionism, which pre-dates the Holocaust, has been a convenient pawn for corporate war profiteers. At the center have been the bankers who financed the bribery and threats that brought forth the U.N. partition vote, and then financed the military hardware and logistics for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, thus instigating a religious conflict which has been assiduously cultivated to this day.

      They gained financial control of much of the media and government in the U.S. and U.K. Through these they pushed for the attack on Iraq, loosing experienced Iraqi military men and weaponry into the cauldron and ultimately into ISIS. Now they push for an attack on Iran. A brief account of central historical facts relentlessly omitted by the mainstream media, and highly recommended by former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, is linked at the bottom of the page here.
      link to consortiumnews.com

    • kalithea
      November 15, 2015, 8:24 pm

      If anyone wants to check out the perfect example of hasbara, ivri’s comment is it. Always remember that what hasbara doesn’t mention is always more important than what it does: Zionism is ubiquitous in Europe and the U.S. and resurrecting, inciting and pushing the historical agenda narrative: Islam; the enemy of Western civilization. And this is why this hasbarat had the cliché clash of civilizations handy to deflect attention from the narrative: Zionism Exposed.

      Because it’s so much better when everyone else dies getting rid of Zionism’s public enemy No. One. We’re all being led inside Zionism’s coliseum and the spectacle is called: Clash of the Christian/Islamic civilizations.

      Nice death trap we’re being led into eyes wide shut on behalf of Zionism and the chosen, and still everyone prostrates before that altar, then rising up blindly step into the sacrifice.

      I can just hear ivri’s teeth gnashing at the truth.

      • Sibiriak
        November 15, 2015, 9:46 pm

        kalithea: Zionism is ubiquitous in Europe and the U.S. and resurrecting, inciting and pushing the historical agenda narrative: Islam; the enemy of Western civilization.
        —————

        Good point. But let’s not forget that it cuts both ways. “Islam: the enemy of Western Civilization” is an idea that long predates Zionism and is a deep ideological source for Western affinity with and support for Zionism–and not only Western affinity with Zionism, but Western colonialism, imperialism, militarism and predatory capitalism independent of Zionism.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 11:15 pm

        “Islam: the enemy of Western Civilization” is an idea that long predates Zionism

        really? that’s the first time i have ever heard that. do you have any sources you can point to from early last century?

      • Sibiriak
        November 15, 2015, 11:45 pm

        @Annie: The idea that Islam is the enemy of the West goes back centuries. Think the Crusades, for starters.

      • Sibiriak
        November 16, 2015, 12:15 am

        “Islam: the enemy of Western Civilization” is an idea that long predates Zionism
        —————-

        Cf. Richard Webster, “The body politic and the politics of the body: The religious origins of western secularism” (1994)

        link to richardwebster.net

        ——————-

        “[…]we might well consider the kind of scepticism which is felt by countless Muslims about the ideals of freedom associated with democracy and secularism. Possessing still the visceral sense of history which is alien to most Western intellectuals, many Muslims know all too well what the Western passion for freedom has meant in terms of their own history. They know that the cutting edge of the Western conscience has frequently been a sword, that democracy has often appeared in the form of an invading army, and that freedom of speech has sometimes signified the right to engage in obscene and insulting blasphemies directed against Muhammad and the Koran.

        The sceptical anger of many Muslims when they are faced by Western cries of democracy, freedom and conscience is expressed well in the words of Rana Kabbani, writing in 1989:

        Is the Western conscience not selective? The West feels sympathy for the Afghan Mujahedin, propped up by American intelligence just as the Nicaraguan Contras were, but feels no sympathy for militant Muslims who are not fighting its cold war battles but have political concerns of their own.

        As I write, Palestinians are dying every day in the Occupied Territories – nearly 600 dead at the latest count, over 30,000 wounded and 20,000 in detention without trial – savage and prolonged curfews are imposed as routine collective punishments, homes are blown up, pregnant women gassed and beaten and unarmed boys kicked to death by regular soldiers, yet Israel remains a democracy in Western eyes, an outpost of Western civilisation. What is one to think of such double standards?

        Considering these circumstances it is not surprising that an extremist political Islam has taken root all over the world, fuelled by historical grievance, by poverty, by an overriding sense of powerlessness. The West bears more than a measure of responsibility for this phenomenon. For by interfering so forcefully in Muslim affairs, by overthrowing nationalist rulers (as was done in Iran, for example, in 1953) and setting up puppets in their place, by uncritical support for Israeli excesses, by milking Muslim resources and conspiring to keep the Muslim world economically, culturally and politically enthralled, the West has made us what we are: enraged and unforgiving.[1]

        It is the long history of humiliation which Kabbani recalls here which helps to explain why many Muslims living in the latter part of the twentieth century tend to see the forces of secularism and democracy not as harbingers of liberation and rational enlightenment, but as the latest manifestation of an essentially religious war which the Christian West has fought against Islam for very many centuries. To Western secularists, the Crusades belong to a bygone age, as does the entire concept of Christian imperialism with which they were associated. To many Muslims, however, the Crusades continue. Democracy is their war-cry.

        The Muslim perception of democracy as a crusading and essentially repressive force is one which most secular liberals in the West have immense difficulty in understanding. We may well be aware of the way in which, historically speaking, the ‘freedom of Christ’ tended to be enforced with the sword. But we like to regard the tradition of modern liberalism as entirely distinct from this ancient Christian attitude towards freedom. We therefore tend to trace this tradition back to the great rationalist thinkers of the European Enlightenment or to nineteenth-century secular thinkers such as John Stuart Mill.

        Some Westerners would concede that there have been occasions in our recent history – during the Gulf war perhaps, or at certain moments in the Rushdie affair – when a culture which has long nurtured the twin ideals of liberal individualism and secularism has slipped into habits of thought and patterns of rhetoric which seem to belong not to the twentieth century and a supposedly secular, post-Christian age but to a much earlier century, and to an age of faith. Yet such lapses can easily be explained as regressive phenomena, the products of a kind of mass-psychosis in which a traumatised culture momentarily relives an episode from its distant childhood.

        The other possibility – that in moments of crisis secularism sometimes allows its rational mask to slip in order to reveal, momentarily at least, its true, essentially religious nature – is one which seldom needs to be discounted for the very simple reason that it is so rarely entertained in the first place.” [emphasis added]
        —————–

        Zionism didn’t create the idea that the West was at war with Islam–but it certainly fed off it. The idea has deep roots in Western hegemonic forms of rationalism and secularism, which themselves have deep roots in long-forgotten Christian imperialism.

      • a4tech
        November 16, 2015, 12:31 am

        Are you being sarcastic Annie? Have you never heard about the multiple Crusades, Christian Europe’s wars with the Ottomans, the Spanish war against the Moors? Do not be ridiculous.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 12:44 am

        sorry everyone! i read it wrong. i interpreted the sentence as islam at war with the west not the west being at war with islam.

        i rec this article: Who Should be Blamed for Muslim Terrorism?

        link to counterpunch.org

        In the last five decades, around 10 million Muslims have been murdered because their countries did not serve the Empire, or did not serve it full-heartedly, or just were in the way. The victims were Indonesians, Iraqis, Algerians, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iranians, Yemenis, Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, and the citizens of Mali, Somalia, Bahrain and many other countries.

        The West identified the most horrible monsters, threw billions of dollars at them, armed them, gave them advanced military training, and then let them loose.

        The countries that are breeding terrorism, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, are some of the closest allies of the West, and have never been punished for exporting horror all over the Muslim world.

        Great social Muslim movements like Hezbollah, which is presently engaged in mortal combat against the ISIS, but which also used to galvanize Lebanon during its fight against the Israeli invasion, are on the “terrorist lists” compiled by the West. It explains a lot, if anybody is willing to pay attention.

        Seen from the Middle East, it appears that the West, just as during the crusades, is aiming at the absolute destruction of Muslim countries and the Muslim culture.

        Seen from california, it appears that way to me too. there’s a fundamental difference between being at war with someone and making that war happen. the west made/makes war on islam. we’re reaping the fruits of our labor but it doesn’t amount to islam making war on the west, because they are not. Islam is not the enemy of Western Civilization. but Western Civilization has been a devastating brutal enemy towards islam. big difference.

      • ivri
        November 16, 2015, 11:57 am

        @Kalithea
        Let me tell you where the main weaknesses of your argument lie.
        Can`t you notice that you actually treat the entire world as a bunch of fools that “Zionists” can lead wherever they want to. You mention here Europe, with its infinite historical experiences, and the US with its hugely advanced analysis forums and apparatus – treating them as naïve fools that are incapable to see what you have so “brilliantly” “explored”.
        Isn`t a far more plausible explanation that they have their own agendas and analyses while your conspiratorial theories may look ingenious to you but sheer nonsense to just about anybody else.
        And another point: can`t you see that by implication you attribute supernatural powers to those “Zionist forces” – they are able to see anything better and ahead of others and drive everybody else to wherever they want to. Thanks for the compliment Mr. Fantasy but very few people in the world will take such arguments seriously.

      • hophmi
        November 16, 2015, 1:45 pm

        Can you tell me which mainstream Zionist organizations have promoted the view that Islam is the enemy of Western civilization? Organizations, please, not individual people, since you’ve blamed “Zionism” for this view.

        “Nice death trap we’re being led into eyes wide shut on behalf of Zionism and the chosen”

        Oh please. You’re a vicious antisemite, kalithea. Stop hiding behind euphemisms.

      • amigo
        November 16, 2015, 1:49 pm

        “Thanks for the compliment Mr. Fantasy but very few people in the world will take such arguments seriously.” ivri to kathalea.

        As soon as they spot your opposition to her arguments , they will take them very seriously.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 3:46 pm

        “Oh please. You’re a vicious antisemite, kalithea. Stop hiding behind euphemisms.”

        I get a thrill divine down my spine when I watch the ‘Jedi Knight of Outreach’, “Hophmi”, at work. “There” I tell myself “is the broad, flexible outlook, combined with the wide-awake, get-er-done practicality, of a master out-reacher.”

      • zaid
        November 16, 2015, 5:58 pm

        Hophmi

        Zionist Jews are over represented in the Anti Islam movement and that is a fact, and almost ALL media outlet that bashes Islam are linked to Zionists. (like memri).

      • kalithea
        November 17, 2015, 1:29 am

        I have to respond to my own post to make sense of the continuity here! Lol! I guess that’s a good sign.

        Anyway @ Sibiriak, ivri, hophmi – 3 birds of a feather with one stone.

        A picture speaks a thousand words and today I found that picture on another site and dedicate it to the above hasbarats:

        link to richardsilverstein.com

        But there’s lot’s more Zionist Islamophobic propaganda circulating around. Just wanted to give you a small taste of your truth.

        Shibiriak, and not only Western affinity with Zionism, but Western colonialism, imperialism, militarism and predatory capitalism

        -hmm, sure sounds like you’re describing the vices of present-day Zionism.

        ivri – you’re right, there are too many fools in this world right now; that’s why we are knee deep in Zionist war shit; but here’s the thing, not all of us are fools and you’re the type that undermines and shades the truth by making the other think it’s all in your imagination. Naw, my lying eyes don’t deceive me; you Zionist hasbarats are controlling the narrative alright with help from your msm lackeys…for now.

        hophmi – coming from you, it’s a badge of honor! Means I struck a real nerve – the truth hurts that way; or is it exposure?

        All this being said; it doesn’t take much to resurrect historical fears; you Zionists should know, you’re experts at milking certain historical fears with fellow Jews to keep them loyal to the Zionist cult.

      • a4tech
        November 18, 2015, 8:58 am

        Annie : “Islam is not the enemy of Western Civilization. but Western Civilization has been a devastating brutal enemy towards islam. big difference – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        Thats okay Annie, but please try not to frame the resistance against Islam as a Western specific phenomenon. The first, most violent and ruthless resistance towards it came from the Arabs themselves, the Prophets own tribe in fact. It goes to show that Islam isnt about a specific people or tribe or nationality, it is a message meant for the humanity on the whole.

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 2:22 pm

        ” The first, most violent and ruthless resistance towards it came from the Arabs themselves, the Prophets own tribe in fact.”

        Okay, that sounds right. Isn’t that how it goes?

        ” It goes to show that Islam isn’t about a specific people or tribe or nationality, it is a message meant for the humanity on the whole.”

        But of course, the very first “humanity on the whole”, the “Prophets (sic) own tribe in fact”, that He delivered the message to, put up a “most violent and ruthless resistance towards it”.
        That’s how he could tell humanity would just looooove it?

      • gamal
        November 18, 2015, 5:08 pm

        “Okay, that sounds right. Isn’t that how it goes?”

        Cool Mooser,

        “The first, most violent and ruthless resistance towards it came from the Arabs themselves, the Prophets own tribe in fact. It goes to show that Islam isnt about a specific people or tribe or nationality, it is a message meant for the humanity on the whole.”

        and we should resist it ruthlessly? on the whole.

        Did you know Justin Beiber is an Arab, and very devout.

        link to youtu.be

      • RoHa
        November 18, 2015, 7:23 pm

        “Did you know Justin Beiber is an Arab, and very devout.”

        That’s no excuse.

      • ckg
        November 18, 2015, 8:34 pm

        gamal: Did you know Justin Beiber is an Arab, and very devout.

        Hmmm..Here is some information about Bieber’s ethnicity.

        Birth Name: Justin Drew Bieber

        Place of Birth: London, Ontario, Canada

        Date of Birth: March 1, 1994

        Ethnicity:
        *German, Irish, English, Scottish (father)
        *French-Canadian, with remote English, Swiss-French, and Scottish (mother)

        Justin Bieber is a Canadian singer, songwriter, and actor. He is the son of Jeremy Bieber and Pattie Mallette.

        On his father’s side, Justin has German, Irish, English, and Scottish ancestry. Justin’s mother’s family is French-Canadian; his mother also has remote English, Swiss-French, and Scottish ancestry.

        source: link to ethnicelebs.com

      • gamal
        November 18, 2015, 8:58 pm

        thank you ckg, it is any easy mistake to make, thanks for the clarification,

        Mooser, did you find yourself called upon to lead the Jews in prayer? ever

        Fatih caries it of in style, how many Jews are needed for prayer? in Islam it is either one or none.

        he is Caucasian, and honestly he really has something about him, in Austin Texas, we are everywhere.

        link to youtu.be

      • Mooser
        November 19, 2015, 12:49 am

        “how many Jews are needed for prayer?”

        I believe that ten (10, count ’em) Jewish adult males makes a “minyan” or quorum, for the full service. But, of course, any number can pray.

      • oldgeezer
        November 19, 2015, 9:04 am

        I don’t really have much interest in Beiber’s ethnicity but I suspect his police record indicates those things he is devout about.

      • Mooser
        November 19, 2015, 10:12 am

        “I don’t really have much interest in Beiber’s ethnicity but…”

        But nothin’. Let’s get to the real question about Justin Beiber. Can he play the chimta?. That’s what I want to know.

    • truthurts
      November 16, 2015, 3:48 am

      “They hate us because of our freedom, became the watchword”
      i remember it being “they’re jealous of our freedom” but who cares

      • Marnie
        November 19, 2015, 5:59 am

        @gamal

        So beautiful –

      • traintosiberia
        November 19, 2015, 10:05 am

        Humans are so alike in dreams,ambitions,and attitude to other . But that doesn’t make a good soundbites if one is looking for war as a solution . To smoothen the resistance to barbarism one has to talk of in terms of abstract that can be processed emotionally but not cognitively . THE SKY GOD is then gets unknowingly replaced with democracy and freedom as the reason for call to arms or more precisely to to depleted uranium

  2. oldgeezer
    November 15, 2015, 12:22 pm

    Absolutely not. In fact it is willfully blind to even suggest otherwise. It is not the only significant factor, of course, and the right and wrongs are a further debate but it’s existence needs to be acknowledged.

  3. Annie Robbins
    November 15, 2015, 12:22 pm

    brave courageous article phil. one of your best.

    • lonely rico
      November 15, 2015, 4:53 pm

      I agree 100% Annie.
      Very good article Phil.
      Bravo.

    • JWalters
      November 15, 2015, 7:01 pm

      Phil’s thoughtful warnings to the Jewish people should be bundled into a new book for the Bible, the Book of Philip.

    • John Salisbury
      November 17, 2015, 12:28 am

      You have thought these issues out so clearly Phillip.

    • Darwin26
      November 19, 2015, 4:34 am

      I sent the article to a friend and the hope is: P Weiss excellent article will get Bernie Sanders view… i’d say it has a better than a %75 chance he’ll read it ~ even better if he reads the comments ~ I didn’t think of it at the moment i sent it but Bernie could go a long ways in saying very little to get a noticeable results from around the World in turn a bounce in the USA… he should say that” International Law demands ‘full Right of Return’ for all Palestinians etc”… this alone i think would clarify his ‘Israel First’ heart… show me a sign Bernie !
      Other: someone mentioned this covenant the Jews had with the big Real Estate Agent in the Sky: Well if you accept the gift of Palestine to the uhhh Hebrews (i don’t think they were called Israeli’s way back when this cult got started) as totally true and all reciprocal covenants from the Jews is binding… FAIL … the covenants call for the Jews in order to hold this land: cannot or should i say ‘Shall Not’ have a military, nor guns and a bunch of other covenants that the current collective malignant conscious/ Utopian Nightmare of Terror ~ 25,000 days and nights of Terror aided and abetted by one branch of gubmint: the US State Dept/IE Statagon, neo-con and neo-liberal activists ~ Policy written by and for Isreal… carried out by the other 2 branches, Wall St and K-Street.
      I appreciate Annie’s reply’s .

  4. olive52
    November 15, 2015, 12:23 pm

    A clever tactic to try and deflect the blame, if a natural disaster happened tomorrow you would blame it on Zionism. Thankfully most people are sane enough to know that only Islamic terrorism is to blame for this tragedy. To suggest that any other entity is to blame is or to say that the root cause of this terrorism is Zionism or rediculous and shameful. Any crime can have a root cause, what difference does it make in the end to the victims.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 15, 2015, 12:50 pm

      most people are sane enough to know that only Islamic terrorism is to blame for this tragedy.

      ah the ol bandwagon crutch. we’re so used to that around here from our resident hasbrats. never satisfied speaking for themselves they hook the vast majority of people onto their opinion to give it weight.

      and, i beg to differ. i think it’s likely the average person (along with multiple analysts) might assume “Islamic terrorism” didn’t spring up out of the blue and blossom all on its lil lonesome. in fact, i’ve read quite a few people claim it was american intervention in iraq that left a vacuum (a very big hole) which in turn nurtured the spread of Islamic terrorism. and then there’s that regime change in syria. none of this happened devoid of the american interventionalists.

    • Mooser
      November 15, 2015, 1:16 pm

      “Any crime can have a root cause, what difference does it make in the end to the victims”

      It’s too late, “olive52”! Germany has already paid out the Holocaust reparations. You could have saved them a lot of money.

      • inbound39
        November 16, 2015, 4:52 am

        Any crime can have a root cause….Israel ignores its part in raising the ire of Arabs in the Middle East by its own arrogant aggressive actions. European Jewish Migrants arrived in the Middle East with the stated goal of relieving by force, Arabs of their land. Israel always conveniently forgets that and minimizes it. To me it is no wonder Israeli’s have many enemies in the Middle East……makes perfect sense.

    • oldgeezer
      November 15, 2015, 1:31 pm

      @olive
      In the end it makes no difference to the victims and their loved ones.

      Understanding amd addressing root causes is, nevertheless, vital if we are to achieve fairness, justice and ultimately some form of peace without resorting to mass slaughter and genocide as we humans have throughout our history.

      The victims are not only in one side in this era. We have arguably created more than we have had to suffer. And yes we will likely never reach a total era of peace as the current conflicts will likely be replaced by some other (centered around power, wealth and resources as usual).

    • eljay
      November 15, 2015, 1:56 pm

      || olive52: A clever tactic to try and deflect the blame … only Islamic terrorism is to blame for this tragedy. To suggest that any other entity is to blame is or to say that the root cause of this terrorism is Zionism or rediculous and shameful. … ||

      You are exactly, completely and totally correct: Only Zio-supremacism is to blame for the suffering of Palestinians for the past almost 70 years. To suggest that any other entity is to blame or to say that the root cause of Palestinian suffering is Islam or anti-Semitism is ridiculous and shameful.

    • amigo
      November 15, 2015, 3:45 pm

      “Any crime can have a root cause, what difference does it make in the end to the victims.” olive 52.

      You are saying that “never again” is meaningless then and using your logic we non Jews should just move on because all the victims of the Holocaust are dead.

      Do you have kids ???.

      • MHughes976
        November 15, 2015, 4:19 pm

        If you’re already in the next world you are not helped by anything in this world -,there is no act of justice or vengeance that will make things better for you. But if you are still involved innocently in the things of this world then nothing can make you feel more secure, or make you think on more rational grounds that your suffering as a victim or even your distress as an observer was not wholly in vain, than the sense that the root causes are being addressed.

      • amigo
        November 15, 2015, 4:45 pm

        If you are part of the root problem , then nothing distresses you more or robs you of comfort , than knowing the root cause is being addressed.

        Olive 52 is like the driver with contraband on board , who when asked to open the trunk by a police officer , loses the rag and try,s to stop any further investigation.Can,t have anyone looking at the root cause of the drug problem-eh.

      • RoHa
        November 16, 2015, 12:14 am

        “If you’re already in the next world you are not helped by anything in this world”

        Not all theologies or philosophies agree, but I don’t think anyone has proved you wrong.

  5. a4tech
    November 15, 2015, 12:26 pm

    Phil actually believes America wants to defeat the Islamic State, I’m not sure how to process this to be honest.

    • Mooser
      November 15, 2015, 12:57 pm

      “I’m not sure how to process this to be honest.”

      Yes, “a4tech” I have to agree. I get the distinct feeling that “how to process this to be honest” is indeed, a enormous problem for you.

  6. PeaceThroughJustice
    November 15, 2015, 1:24 pm

    Here is Phil’s 2007 article first addressing Walzer’s unapologetic (in front of a Jewish audience at least) promotion of tribalism. It was pretty good —

    “Michael Walzer on Jewish Identity: Jewish Writers for Jewish Readers!”
    link to mondoweiss.net

    • Annie Robbins
      November 15, 2015, 2:20 pm

      thanks ptj, i agree very interesting. also, as an aside, all of our old articles from so long ago, the formatting is screwed up, must be from changing servers a few times along the way. anyway, i gave it a shot trying to fix it since you linked to it and i thought people might be checking it out (quite a worthy read), it might read a little smoother now.

      • PeaceThroughJustice
        November 15, 2015, 4:16 pm

        Thanks Annie. BTW even the old links to that era are screwed up. I had this bookmarked but had to search for it again in the archives.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 6:49 pm

        really? oh my. well thank you i am glad you did.

  7. can of worms
    November 15, 2015, 1:42 pm

    It’s soothing to always bring the material into focus.

    The non-separation between Religion and State is the structural issue here, for it is incompatible with democracy.

    The way race and class interests shape discourse is more the issue here than the talk of national “miracles”, “revelations”, and “redemptions” per se.

    What is a problem is that in order to be modern/secular ( “Western”) someone else has to be made ‘primitive,” “savage,” “barbaric” and “religious” and Eastern. Let’s not go there!

    @ “the biggest impediment to…the reform of Islam”: I don’t understand why should Islam be “reformed”? I may have missed something, I’m tired, apologies if so.

    @ “…a simple truth: that Osama bin Laden and his radical little army were motivated (&c.).” Yallah, we started. Well there are no simple truths anymore, not once the internet came and busted us, and this is not a site to discuss 9/11 theories — fair is fair.

    Yes it’s quite soothing to wade one’s toes into the material. Who should control a country’s energy resources, vs. who does control these. What will happen to the US dollar if the case were reversed. By what means a ‘Jewish State’ in that case will be maintained in Palestine. The luxurious balm to the soul.

  8. Donald
    November 15, 2015, 1:45 pm

    I think the content of this post is fine, but the title is overstated. That’s all. I started to write more, but it is silly to write a couple of paragraphs arguing with a title.

    • eljay
      November 15, 2015, 1:51 pm

      || Donald: I think the content of this post is fine, but the title is overstated. … ||

      I agree.

      At last night’s Democratic debate in Iowa, Bernie Sanders responded to the Paris horror saying that we have to rid the earth of ISIS, that there’s a war for the soul of Islam, and the Muslim nations have to get their hands dirty too. …

      Too bad he neglected to mention that:
      – we have to rid the earth of all hatefulness and immorality, including Zio-supremacism and oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist “Jewish State”;
      – there’s a war for the soul of Judaism; and
      – Jewish organizations have to get their hands dirty, too.

    • Philip Weiss
      November 15, 2015, 3:24 pm

      Donald what should I change the headline to? Phil

      • Donald
        November 15, 2015, 5:14 pm

        Not sure. The post is more about things we should do if we don’t want to be war criminals or accessories to war crimes, but ISIS isn’t composed of people who are fighting for Palestinian rights. We set the stage for ISIS, obviously and we should stop doing such things, and that might cut down on the creation of future terrorist groups, but ISIS itself–I think those guys are a little beyond reaching with a drastic pro-human rights shift in US policy.

      • kalithea
        November 15, 2015, 10:06 pm

        It’s perfect.

        @ Donald

        It’s not ISIS we should reach out to by first disengaging with Zionism; it’s the rest of the Muslim world, or do you think they’re beyond reach as well? The fact is that ISIS will have less and less recruits and the Muslim world against them when we start showing respect for Muslim lives and rights instead of parading around hypocrisy and double-standard humanity and offering Muslims only lip service.

  9. JLewisDickerson
    November 15, 2015, 1:53 pm

    RE: “And you’re worried about Christian evangelists?” ~ Weiss

    ANSWER: Yes, they scare the bejesus out of me (at least the Dominionists do)!
    Pastor John Hagee (October 12, 2015): “Christ Has Returned to Jerusalem”
    link to youtube.com

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 1:58 pm

      Pastor John Hagee (September 11, 2015): “Can America Survive Until 2017?”
      link to youtube.com
      Cornerstone John Hagee 2015, Exposing and Expelling Demons
      link to youtube.com

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 4:21 pm

      P.S. Judging by Matt Taibbi’s experience in joining Hagee’s Cornerstone Chuch in San Antonio (as described in The Great Derangement, 2008), members of Hagee’s church are regularly and methodically brainwashed with Zionist propaganda – not only by Hagee, but also by his underlings (i.e., the crackpot ‘yes-men’ that form the middle management*) in all kinds of settings.

      “The Great Derangement: A Terrifying True Story of War, Politics, and Religion at the Twilight of the American Empire” Hardcover – May 6, 2008
      by Matt Taibbi (Author)
      A REVELATORY AND DARKLY COMIC ADVENTURE THROUGH A NATION ON THE VERGE OF A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN—FROM THE HALLS OF CONGRESS TO THE BASES OF BAGHDAD TO THE APOCALYPTIC CHURCHES OF THE HEARTLAND
      Rolling Stone’s Matt Taibbi set out to describe the nature of George Bush’s America in the post-9/11 era and ended up vomiting demons in an evangelical church in Texas, riding the streets of Baghdad in an American convoy to nowhere, searching for phantom fighter jets in Congress, and falling into the rabbit hole of the 9/11 Truth Movement.
      Matt discovered in his travels across the country that the resilient blue state/red state narrative of American politics had become irrelevant. A large and growing chunk of the American population was so turned off—or radicalized—by electoral chicanery, a spineless news media, and the increasingly blatant lies from our leaders (“they hate us for our freedom”) that they abandoned the political mainstream altogether. They joined what he calls The Great Derangement.
      Taibbi tells the story of this new American madness by inserting himself into four defining American subcultures: The Military, where he finds himself mired in the grotesque black comedy of the American occupation of Iraq; The System, where he follows the money-slicked path of legislation in Congress; The Resistance, where he doubles as chief public antagonist and undercover member of the passionately bonkers 9/11 Truth Movement; and The Church, where he infiltrates a politically influential apocalyptic mega-ministry in Texas and enters the lives of its desperate congregants. Together these four interwoven adventures paint a portrait of a nation dangerously out of touch with reality and desperately searching for answers in all the wrong places.
      Funny, smart, and a little bit heartbreaking, The Great Derangement is an audaciously reported, sobering, and illuminating portrait of America at the end of the Bush era.

      PRAISE FOR THE GREAT DERANGEMENT

      “Where other mainstream news sources fail, Matt Taibbi madly embraces his role as an honest political observer/writer/citizen in a democracy. I would also like to take this opportunity to ask for Matt’s hand in marriage”. – ❤ Janeane Garofalo ❤

      “I’ve lived in every corner of the continental United States and Hawaii, but about half of my 62 years have been spent in various cities large and small in Texas. Few writers have managed to capture the creepy folksiness, the numbing intellectual disconnect, and the vicious religiosity of Texas as well as Matt Taibbi. His acutely observed description of Hagee’s San Antonio mega-cult is spot on. The author gleefully picks the chunks out of the mind vomit of homophobia, militarism and apocalyptic whackology such outfits specialize in, and clearly identifies how Hagee uses support for Israel (to be carefully distinguished from sympathy for Jewish people) to make powerful political connections. This is a marvelous LOL examination of the intersection of religious and political sleeze in an America that’s DOA.” ~ By R. Conner on August 23, 2009

      “Got this book Monday, May 5th. Finished it once … going back again. Matt reveals the absurdity that has this country by the throat. As a former church pastor, the narrative on Matt’s adventure with John Hagee’s nut bunch was point-on. This book is laugh-out-loud funny but what it reveals is very sad. . .” ~ By Chris Martin on May 6, 2008

      * “‘The Great Derangement’ is something of a mongrel. . .
      . . . Where ‘Derangement’ is more successful is in actually reporting from inside of each of the three ‘worlds’ he covers.
      The infiltration of Pastor Hagee’s megachurch in Texas is where Mr. Taibbi shines most. Although my personal religious leanings are very similar to the author’s, I grew up in the church (if a much more ‘main line’ denomination) and I recognize the individuals that populate Cornerstone Church in San Antonio. He manages to differentiate between the zealots running the show, the crackpot ‘yes-men’ that form the middle management, and the actual believers in the pews who, while overly credulous, are really just looking for some answers, stability, and a sense of belonging in their life.
      While Mr. Taibbi puts forward a more sympathetic portrait of megachurch parishioners, he has no problem allowing Hagee and his ilk to damn themselves. ‘Derangement’ is a record of Hagee’s willingness to lie to his congregation to further his political ends and ingratiate himself with his Washington benefactors.
      ‘The Great Derangement’ attempts to provide ‘balance’ to his critique of Evangelicalism by comparing it to the ‘9/11 Truth’ movement, something that Mr. Taibbi characterizes as ‘left-wing’ though I find that claim a bit dubious.” ~ By DCArchitect on November 13, 2008

      AMAZON – link to amazon.com

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 4:29 pm

      P.P.S. ALSO SEE: “John Hagee’s Controversial Gospel”, by Sarah Posner, Prospect.org, 12 March 2008
      An excerpt from Sarah Posner’s book, God’s Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters.

      [EXCERPT] . . . One former member of Hagee’s church, fearful to talk on the record because Hagee is “really powerful” and has “got so much clout,” described Hagee as “very angry” and “not approachable.” The former member, who attended Cornerstone for about ten years, recalled that she had been going to Cornerstone for six years before she actually met Hagee. “I said, ‘Oh, Pastor Hagee, I’m finally getting to meet you after six years,’ and he said, ‘Oh, I’ve been back here every Sunday’ and turned and walked off.” Her husband is bipolar, and when they went to marriage counseling, the church “told him he was a loser and an infidel.” The counselors encouraged the former congregant to leave her husband, but “thankfully, I prayed enough. … I began to see trouble, you know, I began to see things that wasn’t right.”

      About the tithe, the former Cornerstone member recalled, “That’s a shame issue there if you don’t tithe. … We’ve heard him say, … everybody who’s got their tithing envelope, wave it in the air. So that’s shame on you” if you don’t tithe. Yet Hagee, before he converted his nonprofit Global Evangelism Television into a church in 2004 (thus relieving him of the obligation to file a publicly available tax return), was known to be the highest-paid nonprofit executive in San Antonio, making nearly $1 million a year. Now, because of the conversion, his salary remains a secret. In 2000 his John C. Hagee Royalty Trust, whose trustee is Hagee’s brother-in-law Scott Farhart, spent $5.5 million on a ranch in Brackettville, Texas. The property includes the Hagee-owned LaFonda Ranch, which has its own private airstrip, where televangelist and Hagee friend Kenneth Copeland landed his aircraft for a weekend of hunting rare exotic game.

      Another component of Hagee’s ranch is a cattle-raising operation. For that project, Hagee formed a nonprofit — run only by himself — called the Texas Israel Agricultural Research Foundation, which he claims works on joint research endeavors with an Israeli university. Water consumption is highly regulated in the parched section of the state where the ranch is located, but San Antonio legislator Frank Corte introduced a bill that would have exempted Hagee’s outfit from the state’s water use laws. To move the bill, Hagee enlisted the services of one of San Antonio’s most powerful lobbyists, David Earl. Members of Hagee’s church sent more than eighty nearly identical letters — some from the church’s fax machine — to the Texas House of Representatives committee considering the bill, urging its passage. The letters argued that the bill would “protect Texas agricultural research projects that have entered into agreements to share information with Israeli organizations.” The bill stalled in committee, and Hagee’s lobbyists were forced to apply for permits from the local groundwater control board in Kinney County to pump water on the property.

      Other Hagee ventures operate through trusts and companies run by Farhart and involve prominent San Antonio businesspeople. These ventures include a failed investment in a proposed hotel in downtown San Antonio and a planned development near his church. In another venture, Hagee crossed a group of local businesspeople who sought to market their beauty products made from salt from the Dead Sea through Hagee’s ministry. They charged in a 2006 lawsuit that they entered into the deal after Hagee billed himself “as someone that had a lot of political connections,” making the group “aware of his rubbing shoulders with people influential in the Bush Cabinet,” according to the group’s lawyer, Jesse Castillo. Castillo said that his clients claimed that Hagee backed out of the deal because the church was facing tax problems due to “a concern that they were mixing the business interests of the church with the business interests.”

      The former congregant whose husband is bipolar said that even though she and her husband wrote a big check to the church after they sold their house and tithed close to 10 percent of their income, “We never prospered there.” Most of the people she knew there were struggling financially, including some who were evicted from their apartments because they couldn’t pay their rent. Hagee, she said, has a “very powerful hold, and you don’t even realize it. … We were there ten years, and I knew something was wrong, but I couldn’t figure out what it was.” She even feared speaking to a reporter: “If I say too much about him, God’s going to get me. … [Hagee’s] got so much money and he’s so powerful, he could take everything we have in a minute.”

      Another former member told of tithing even when she had to borrow out of her 401(k) plan to make her mortgage payments. At one point, she said, “at Christmastime I didn’t have gifts under my tree. Two small gifts for my kids, that was it. I was so broke, and I was tithing.” At the time, she believed that tithing would result in her own blessing. Still another former member, a single mother divorced from an abusive husband, told of tithing out of her child support checks, even though she was living in an apartment with subsidized rent. Contrasting her small apartment with Hagee’s home in an exclusive San Antonio subdivision and his multimillion-dollar ranch, she added, “I don’t even have a house! My kids grew up on top of each other like sardines. … I just want a little house.” She added, “I thought something was wrong with me. Why am I still [living like this]. I’ve given and given and given and tithed and tithed and tithed.” But while attending Cornerstone, she, like the others, felt guilt and enormous pressure not to question Hagee or his doctrine, and that atmosphere was reinforced through multiple church services each week and mandatory meetings with smaller cell groups whose leaders were vetted on the basis of classes, tests, and the faithfulness of their tithing. As a result, the former member said, “I looked to Pastor Hagee as a god.”

      ENTIRE ARTICLE/EXCERPT – link to prospect.org

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 16, 2015, 2:08 pm

      P.P.P.S. MY GREAT-GREAT-GRANDFATHER:

      BIOGRAPHIC ETCHINGS of MINISTERS and LAYMEN of the GEORGIA CONFERENCES
      BY W. J. SCOTT, D. D., The Foote & Davies Co., Publishers 1895

      [excerpts from pages 148 thru 157]
      JOSIAH LEWIS.
      When the Georgia Conference held its fifth annual session at Columbus in December, 1836, four young ministers asked to be admitted into the itinerant ranks. They were duly received and began a long career of marked usefulness . . .
      . . . No form of evil escaped his denunciation. No fear of men restrained his rebukes. In a certain county’ in Georgia while slavery existed, his trusty old horse took fright at a group of half-clad ragged negro children on the road. He was going to camp-meeting, and got a message on the way. At the principal hour, in the presence of thousands, many of whom were large slave-owners, his theme was the duty of masters to slaves. He told the incident of the neglected children, and the frightened horse, and cried aloud, sparing not the inhumanity of masters to their slaves, and demanding reform. There was no mincing of words, no cringing that “thrift might follow fawning.” He waxed warmer and grew bolder as he found he was denouncing an evil, alas, too common in that section. The sermon produced a sensation. The guilty were excited to the highest pitch, and they turned their wrath toward the preacher. Threats of violence were freely made, and reached his ears. Without a fear he moved among his enemies, and when the storm had passed, the dauntless prophet lived to see a great reform. . .
      . . . In his latter life Bro. Lewis leaned upon a staff with a head of gold. It was a present to him from his friends who were attending the commencement exercises of Emory College. Inscribed on the precious metal were these words :
      ”Rev. Josiah Lewis, Our Model Patron.”
      One after another, seven noble sons have graduated’ with the honors of the institution, and each one took a manly place among men. Two have joined their father on the other shore. Others of them are honoring his name on earth, perpetuating the work which he began. He lives in them and theirs, and “his works do follow him.”

      SOURCES
      link to usgennet.org
      link to archive.org
      link to mocavo.com

  10. ritzl
    November 15, 2015, 2:03 pm

    FFS. [muslin leaders] “getting their hands dirty”

    In one of the many many many many inconsistencies and/or raw insanities of our neocon policies, Assad was “getting his hands dirty” preventing the origination of ISIS in order to preserve [what now appears to be a paradise by comparison] secular Syria. So we tried to get rid if him to make Israel look like the aid-worthy island of calm in the region (that it isn’t).

    Now we have animalistic desire, with means (aka Syria’s former oil revenues) to perform wholly unpreventable bombings on the airlines and in the capitol cities of anyone that opposes them using more than words.

    Thanks neocons. Vote for Hillary. (bitter sarcasm, that last bit…)

    WBBB? (Would Bernie Be Better?) Not if he can’t be open and honest about Israel, he won’t. Honesty indicates a certain sanity and, maybe just maybe, a willingness to talk about what got us to this point and (more maybes) a desire to correct the (millions of dead and $6T – ie free college education for an entire generation if Americans) problem.

    Lack of openness suggests, well, the exact opposite.

    Is that a political point?

  11. Jackdaw
    November 15, 2015, 2:12 pm

    Phil, you cherry picked and misconstued David Corn’s statement about Israel and the (2nd) Iraq War.

    Phil said:

    ” even as the head of the commission said that the Iraq war was launched to protect Israel”.

    Corn actually said:

    “Paul Wolfowitz and other members of the neocon movement had talked about getting rid of Iraq and there would be democracy throughout the region that would help Israel..”

    • Annie Robbins
      November 15, 2015, 2:59 pm

      jack, corn did say that in response to Matthews asking him “Why were the people in the administration like [Paul] Wolfowitz and the others talking about going into Iraq from the very beginning…”

      but phil wasn’t referencing that part of the article when he embedded the link into “even as the head of the commission said that the Iraq war was launched to protect Israel.” that should have been obvious because corn was not the head of the 9/11 commission. look further in the article to this part (my bold):

      It is in the head of the 9/11 Commission, former Bush aide Philip Zelikow, saying Israel was the reason to take on Iraq back in 2002 even though Iraq was no threat to us:

      “Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I’ll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 – it’s the threat against Israel,” Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002. “And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don’t care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell.”

      – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 3:15 pm

        also in the original article w/Zelikow’s quote (which is embedded in the blockquote above as it was in phil’s original article):

        Zelikow made his statements about “the unstated threat” during his tenure on a highly knowledgeable and well-connected body known as the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), which reports directly to the president.

        He served on the board between 2001 and 2003.
        ….
        Even though members of the 16-person PFIAB come from outside government, they enjoy the confidence of the president and have access to all information related to foreign intelligence that they need to play their vital advisory role.

        Known in intelligence circles as “Piffy-ab”, the board is supposed to evaluate the nation’s intelligence agencies and probe any mistakes they make.

        The unpaid appointees on the board require a security clearance known as “code word” that is higher than top secret.

        ……

        Before his appointment to PFIAB in October 2001, he was part of the current president’s transition team in January 2001.

        In that capacity, Zelikow drafted a memo for National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice on reorganising and restructuring the National Security Council (NSC) and prioritising its work.

        ….

        Zelikow had ties with another senior Bush administration official – Robert Zoellick, the current trade representative. The two wrote three books together, including one in 1998 on the United States and the “Muslim Middle East”.

        …..

        His close ties to the administration prompted accusations of a conflict of interest in 2002 from families of victims of the 9/11 attacks, who protested his appointment to the investigative body.

        In his university speech, Zelikow, who strongly backed attacking the Iraqi dictator, also explained the threat to Israel by arguing that Baghdad was preparing in 1990-91 to spend huge amounts of “scarce hard currency” to harness “communications against electromagnetic pulse”, a side-effect of a nuclear explosion that could sever radio, electronic and electrical communications.

        That was “a perfectly absurd expenditure unless you were going to ride out a nuclear exchange – they (Iraqi officials) were not preparing to ride out a nuclear exchange with us. Those were preparations to ride out a nuclear exchange with the Israelis”, according to Zelikow.

        He also suggested that the danger of biological weapons falling into the hands of the anti-Israeli Islamic Resistance Movement, known by its Arabic acronym Hamas, would threaten Israel rather than the United States, and that those weapons could have been developed to the point where they could deter Washington from attacking Hamas.

        “Play out those scenarios,” he told his audience, “and I will tell you, people have thought about that, but they are just not talking very much about it”.

        “Don’t look at the links between Iraq and al-Qaeda, but then ask yourself the question, ‘gee, is Iraq tied to Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the people who are carrying out suicide bombings in Israel’? Easy question to answer; the evidence is abundant.”

  12. JLewisDickerson
    November 15, 2015, 2:19 pm

    RE: “Ben-Gurion said that the ‘Sinai covenant’ with God had produced the miracle of Israel’s birth. Thus Jewish nationalism (Zionism) was infused from the start with religious ideas. And the creation of Israel always had a religious character for many Jews: a faith so core that it gave life meaning, a faith so strong that it overruled reality.” ~ Weiss

    ● ZIONISM’S “WHITE LIE” PER URI AVNERY (VIA BERNARD AVISHAI), Feb. 2010:

    [EXCERPTS] The Israeli Interior Ministry recognizes 126 nations, but not the Israeli nation. An Israeli citizen can be registered as belonging to the Assyrian, the Tatar or the Circassian nation. But the Israeli nation? Sorry, no such thing.
    According to the official doctrine, the State of Israel cannot recognize an “Israeli” nation because it is the state of the “Jewish” nation. In other words, it belongs to the Jews of Brooklyn, Budapest and Buenos Aires, even though these consider themselves as belonging to the American, Hungarian or Argentine nations. Messy? Indeed.
    THIS MESS started 113 years ago, when the Viennese Journalist Theodor Herzl wrote his book “The State of the Jews”. (That’s the true translation. The generally used name “The Jewish State” is false and means something else.) For this purpose he had to perform an acrobatic exercise. One can say that he used a white lie.
    Modern Zionism was born as a direct response to modern anti-Semitism. Not by accident, the term “Zionismus” came into being some 20 years after the term “Antisemitismus” was invented in Germany. They are twins. . .
    . . . Herzl understood that the new reality was inherently dangerous for the Jews. In the beginning he cherished the idea of complete assimilation: all the Jews would be baptized and disappear in the new nations. As a professional writer for the theater, he even devised the scenario: all Viennese Jews would march together to St. Stephen’s cathedral and be baptized en masse.
    When he realized that this scenario was a bit far-fetched, Herzl passed from the idea of individual assimilation to what may be called collective assimilation: if there is no place for the Jews in the new nations, then they should define themselves as a nation like all the others</b, rooted in a homeland of their own and living in a state of their own. This idea was called Zionism.
    BUT THERE was a problem: a Jewish nation did not exist. The Jews were not a nation but a religious-ethnic community. . . Herzl had to ignore this difference. He pretended that the Jewish ethnic-religious community was also a Jewish nation. In other words: contrary to all other peoples, the Jews were both a nation and a religious community; as far as Jews were concerned, the two were the same. The nation was a religion, the religion was a nation.
    This was the white lie. There was no other way: without it, Zionism could not have come into being. The new movement took the Star of David from the synagogue, the candlestick from the Temple, the blue-and-white flag from the prayer shawl. The holy land became a homeland. Zionism filled the religious symbols with secular, national content. . . The first to detect the falsification were the Orthodox Rabbis. Almost all of them damned Herzl and his Zionism in no uncertain terms.
    When Herzl originated the Zionist idea, he did not intend to found the “State of the Jews” in Palestine, but in Argentina. Even when writing his book, he devoted to the country only a few lines, under the headline “Palestine or Argentina?” However, the movement he created compelled him to divert his endeavors to the Land of Israel, and so the state came into being here.
    When the State of Israel was founded and the Zionist dream realized, there was no further need for the white lie . . .

    . . . [W]hy do the words “Jewish state” appear in our [Israel’s] Declaration of Independence? There was a simple reason for that: the UN had adopted a resolution to partition the country between an “Arab state” and a “Jewish state.” That was the legal basis of the new state. The declaration, which was drafted in haste, said therefore that we were establishing “the Jewish state (according to the UN resolution), namely the State of Israel.”…
    . . . LIKE MOST of us at the time [of the founding of Israel in 1948], David Ben-Gurion believed that Zionism had supplanted religion and that religion had become redundant. He was quite sure that it would shrivel and disappear by itself in the new secular state. He decided that we could afford to dispense with the military service of Yeshiva bochers (Talmud school students), believing that their number would dwindle from a few hundred to almost none. The same thought caused him to allow religious schools to continue in existence. Like Herzl, who promised to “keep our Rabbis in the synagogues and our army officers in the barracks,” Ben-Gurion was certain that the state would be entirely secular. . .
    . . . BUT THE white lie of Herzl had results he did not dream of, as did the compromises of Ben-Gurion. Religion did not wither away in Israel, but on the contrary: it is gaining control of the state. The government of Israel does not speak of the nation-state of the Israelis who live here, but of the “nation-state of the Jews” – a state that belongs to the Jews all over the world, most of whom belong to other nations.
    The religious schools are eating up the general education system and are going to overpower it, if we don’t become aware of the danger and assert our Israeli essence. Voting rights are about to be accorded to Israelis residing abroad, and this is a step towards giving the vote to all Jews around the world. And, most important: the ugly weeds growing in the national-religious field – the fanatical settlers – are pushing the state in a direction that may lead to its destruction. . .

    SOURCE – link to bernardavishai.blogspot.com

    • Mooser
      November 15, 2015, 2:35 pm

      “The religious schools are eating up the general education system and are going to overpower it, if we don’t become aware of the danger and assert our Israeli essence.”

      One confused fellow, ain’t he? It’s the “general education system” which should push the idea of “Israeli essence”, and not the religious schools? Seems like the same difference to me.

  13. JLewisDickerson
    November 15, 2015, 2:33 pm

    RE: “Because of the inward self-governing structure of the Jewish community, anyone who says that apartheid is apartheid is a heretic who must be excommunicated; but even if you conclude that it has all the elements of apartheid, as Peter Beinart told Rabbi Sharon Brous in a Los Angeles synagogue last week, well you must support it, you must not boycott it, you must describe it as a democracy.” ~ Weiss

    SEE: “The New McCarthyism of Jewish Organizations: Where Is Our Murrow?”, by Bernard Avishai, bernardavishai.blogspot.com, 12/26/12

    [EXCERPT] I am just old enough to remember grown-up disquiet when speaking of McCarthyism—the first thick book I read was Louis Nizer’s My Life in Court, which was largely about the libel case of Quentin Reynolds against Westbrook Pegler, the impresario of the scurrilous Red Channels—and I remember feeling a certain pride in the very large number of Jewish liberals who, like Nizer, helped bring America back to its senses.
    Let the galoots disgrace themselves attacking war-heroes like General Marshall. Let weird groups like the John Birchers and Daughters of the American Revolution and Republican Tafters impugn a man’s integrity, then repeat each others’ insinuations, then spread them to widening circles in captive media (where sympathetic pens were waiting). Let them point to the public doubts they themselves manufactured “out of whole cloth,” as my father used to say. Jews, and Jewish organizations, knew where they stood in the face of such smears. They stood for fairness, patience, sanity. We knew for whom an unfair, impatient, insane America would not “be good for.”
    There was Fred Friendly, who collaborated with Edward R. Murrow in challenging McCarthy on CBS. There was Arthur Miller, whose 1953 play, “The Crucible,” about the Salem witch trials, was a thinly veiled attack on the House Un-American Activities Committee. There was I.F. Stone who, forced to strike out on his own, proved the grandeur of the first amendment. There was Commentary Magazine before Norman Podhoretz lost his mind. In the America I knew, which only grew more so during the civil rights struggles of the 1960s, American Jews—with their worldly souls and experience of the social margins—were the natural opponents (because potential victims) of the fear, flocking, and fanaticism that produced political libels.
    Which brings me to Sen. Hagel. I think it is time to acknowledge, bluntly, that certain major Jewish organizations, indeed, the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations—also, the ADL, AIPAC, the American Jewish Committee, political groups like the Republican Jewish Coalition, along with their various columnists, pundits, and list-serves—are among the most consistent purveyors of McCarthyite-style outrages in America today. Are there greater serial defamers of public officials in fake campaigns against defamation? Starting with Andrew Young and the late Charles Percy, and on to Chas Freeman and (now) Chuck Hagel, the game has been to keep Congresspeople and civil servants who might be skeptical of Israel’s occupation and apologetics in a posture that can only be called exaggerated tact.
    Fault Israel and you are accused of faulting Jews in our collective state, or, the same thing, overlooking the venality of our enemies—things only an anti-Semite would do and, of all times, in the wake of the Holocaust. This is not a charge anyone in public life wants to suffer or try to deny. My Israeli friends love that old Borsch-belt joke, that anti-Semitism means disliking Jews more than necessary. For American Jewish organizations, the very idea that dislike is ever warranted is proof of bigotry, like Philip Roth’s early novels were proof of “self-hatred.” . . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to bernardavishai.blogspot.com

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 2:41 pm

      P.S. ALSO SEE (OR LISTEN TO): “Why the U.S. Media Barely Covered Brutal Right-Wing Race Riots in Tel Aviv”, By Joshua Holland, AlterNet, 6/17/12

      [EXCERPTS] Several weeks back, Israel was rocked by a night of right-wing race-riots targeting African refugees. . .
      . . . The story received very little coverage in the. . . States. . .
      . . . Recently, Middle East analyst MJ Rosenberg appeared on the AlterNet Radio Hour to discuss the Tel Aviv riots, the stand-off over Iran’s nuclear program and how the Israel lobby helps narrow the discourse around Israel in the United States. Below is a lightly edited transcript of the discussion (you can listen to the whole interview here.)

      [EXCERPTS]
      • JOSHUA HOLLAND: From your inside perspective on that organization [AIPAC], what did you see as far as their tendency to call out criticism that they think is illegitimate or beyond the pale?
      • MJ ROSENBERG: They [AIPAC] consider all criticism of Israel illegitimate. It’s all beyond the pale. I suppose their definition would be if by some miracle someone like Joseph Lieberman made a statement critical of Israel it would be legitimate. When I worked there in the ’80s, back before everyone had computers, they had a big war room where all they did was assemble every bit of data on members of Congress, on candidates, but also on writers, celebrities – anyone in the public eye.
      In those days they would just put them in these folders. They always had at hand all this negative information — what they considered negative information — to tar people as being anti-Israel or even anti-Semitic. That stuff would be given to reporters if something came up. They were either initiated on their own to give to reporters or some reporter called them because they had a treasure trove of information.
      They still operate that way. In those days they did it directly; now they have former staffers and people who are close to the organization in the blogging world and political world who do it for them. They do it so much. When you read that someone is anti-Israel they’re the ones putting it out there. They’ve got the data. . .
      [snip]
      • JOSHUA HOLLAND: . . . Speaking of our discourse, I want to talk about an issue that came up recently that’s gotten very little coverage in the United States. There were a series of violent race riots by right-wing Israelis against African immigrants in Tel Aviv. This was a big deal. I was looking at the US coverage and it was amazing at how little attention these riots received. . .
      • MJ ROSENBERG: . . . This is a common thing. When there are bad things going on inside Israel — the way they treat the Palestinians and in this case the way they’re treating these poor African refugees from loathsome regimes who wind up in Israel — these stories are … I don’t want to say suppressed in the United States, but it’s striking how much coverage they get in Israel itself and how a paper like the New York Times is too scared to touch it.
      I have to say they’re afraid to touch it. The reason is when an American outlet talks about Israel in any way that’s negative, or reports on anything negative about Israel, they will be inundated with complaints from powerful people who will tell them, “why are you picking on Israel?” They always say, “why is it that China is doing all these things and you’re not writing about that?” Of course, they do. You even see it in the blogosphere too, the intimidation. If you aren’t utterly secure in your position in the media then you don’t mess with Israel. More to the point, you don’t mess with the people here who are Israel’s enforcers…

      ENTIRE (LIGHTLY EDITED) TRANSCRIPT – link to alternet.org

      • kalithea
        November 15, 2015, 10:29 pm

        So thank goodness for the Internet! It’s the internet that is exposing the msm as Zionism’s lackeys and Israel as a pariah to the masses. The net is a nightmare for hasbara and Zionist pr. – poor things have to work harder every day–lolol! The internet is the place where the Zionist plan is being foiled; but action/protest must happen beyond the net. The net is good for exposing the crime of Zionism and getting the word out to as many as possible.

      • JLewisDickerson
        November 17, 2015, 12:14 pm
    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 2:50 pm

      P.P.S. AND SEE – “The AIPAC Politics of Smear: The Secret Section in Israel’s U.S. Lobby That Stifles American Debate”, By Gregory D. Slabodkin, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, July 1992, pages 7-8, 89-91

      [EXCERPTS] During the reign of terror that Senator Joseph McCarthy unleashed in the 1950s, when the reputations and lives of many loyal Americans were ruined by false charges of “communism” and “treason,” American Jewry was overwhelmingly opposed to the Wisconsin senator and his blackmail by blacklists. According to the Gallup polls of the time, the percentage of U.S. Jews who opposed McCarthy’s smear tactics was twice that of the rest of the population. Many Jewish organizations passed resolutions condemning McCarthy’s ruthless character assassination.
      Today, however, such national Jewish organizations as the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith (ADL) and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) are using the same tactics to stifle open debate of U.S. policy in the Middle East.
      • Secretly Circulated Lists
      To conduct this “neo-McCarthyism,” AIPAC operates a covert section within its research department that monitors and keeps files on politicians, journalists, academics, Arab-American activists, Jewish liberals, and others it labels “anti-Israel.” AIPAC selects information from these files and secretly circulates lists of the “guilty,” together with their alleged political misdeeds, buttressed by their statements, often totally out of context.
      Just as McCarthy’s permanent investigations subcommittee labeled criticism of specific policies of the U.S. government as “anti-American,” or “pro-Soviet,” AIPAC labels criticism of Israeli government policies “anti-Israel,” “pro-Arab” or “pro-PLO.” Still worse is the pro-Israel lobby’s redefinition of “anti-Semitism” to include any such criticism of Israel or its actions. . .
      . . . AIPAC’s “opposition research” department traces its roots to I.L. (Sy) Kenen, who founded AIPAC in 1954. As editor of AIPAC’s weekly Near East Report, he often attacked critics of Israel in his aptly titled column, “The Monitor.” Besides monitoring, analyzing, and responding to “anti-Israel” comment and activities in the United States, Kenen also kept files on AIPAC’s “enemies.” In his final year AIPAC began to expand its intelligence-gathering operations.
      Kenen’s memoirs, “Israel’s Defense Line: Her Friends and Foes in Washington”, record how AIPAC pooled resources in 1974 with the American Jewish Committee and other national Jewish organizations to create a “truth squad.” Its purpose was to combat “pro-Arab propaganda” and the emerging “Arab lobby,” which Kenen believed to be a growing threat to the U.S.-Israel relationship.
      “While vigorously defending Israel’s perceived interests, the organizations that created the truth squad turned into a kind of Jewish thought police,” journalist Robert I. Friedman explains. “Investigators—sometimes overzealous Jewish college students, sometimes sources with access to U.S. intelligence agencies—were used to ferret out critics of Israel, Jew or gentile, wherever they might be. At ADL and AIPAC, files were opened on journalists, politicians, scholars and community activists. Their speeches and writings were monitored, as were, in some cases, their other professional activities. And they were often smeared with charges of anti-Semitism or with the pernicious label of self-hating Jew. The intention was to stifle debate on the Middle East within the Jewish community, the media and academia, for fear that criticism of any kind would weaken the Jewish state.”
      When Kenen stepped down as executive director of AIPAC in December 1974, the task of monitoring Israel’s “enemies” was left to the department of research and information at AIPAC, where it has remained ever since. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to wrmea.org
      P.S. Gregory D. Slabodkin was an opposition researcher for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in 1990 and 1991.

      • Mary T
        November 15, 2015, 3:14 pm

        Thank you for this, JLD. It brought to mind the smearing and shunning of Alison Weir, and the allegations about her actions of several years ago. It’s apparent someone had been compiling a dossier on her, to be publicized at a strategically appropriate time.

      • kalithea
        November 15, 2015, 10:34 pm

        Excellent point/observation.

      • JLewisDickerson
        November 17, 2015, 12:16 pm

        ALSO SEE – “Claim: Israelis tried to blackmail Bill Clinton with Lewinsky tapes to force spy release”, by Benjamin Weingarten, 21 July 2014

        [EXCERPT] In October 1998 in a bid to gain the release of Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, an Israeli team led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu threatened to blackmail President Bill Clinton with tapes of Clinton and then-intern Monica Lewinsky. When Clinton brought Israel’s request for Pollard’s release to CIA Director George Tenet, Tenet threatened to resign on the spot should Clinton cave and release Pollard. Clinton ultimately declined the Israeli request, though he would consider it once again before the end of his term. . .

        ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to theblaze.com

      • oldgeezer
        November 17, 2015, 12:29 pm

        @JLD
        There are also unsubstantiated rumours that Canada’s foreign minister John Baird was forced to suddenly, and unexpectedly, resign when it was discovered he was being blackmailed by mossad over activities he participated in at a party in London.

        Someday we will hopefully know the truth.

      • Kay24
        November 17, 2015, 2:00 pm

        They spy on us, they have their agents in powerful positions in various branches of government, and they have got so called Americans (Jews) to spy for them, names include Pollard, Richard Perle, and various others. So maybe they do use that information to put some pressure on our leaders in Congress, and others to use their influence for Israel’s benefit. Sometimes you wonder how many congress members were photographed swimming in the Dead sea fully nude!

        Israelis are never to be trusted. They are devious by nature, and are always up to no good, even our Intelligence agencies say they are the WORST when it comes to spying on us.

        “Israel’s espionage activities in America are unrivaled and unseemly, counterspies have told members of the House Judiciary and Foreign Affairs committees, going far beyond activities by other close allies, such as Germany, France, the U.K. and Japan. A congressional staffer familiar with a briefing last January called the testimony “very sobering…alarming…even terrifying.” Another staffer called it “damaging.”

        The Jewish state’s primary target: America’s industrial and technical secrets.

        “No other country close to the United States continues to cross the line on espionage like the Israelis do,” said a former congressional staffer who attended another classified briefing in late 2013, one of several in recent months given by officials from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the State Department, the FBI and the National Counterintelligence Directorate.

        The intelligence agencies didn’t go into specifics, the former aide said, but cited “industrial espionage—folks coming over here on trade missions or with Israeli companies working in collaboration with American companies, [or] intelligence operatives being run directly by the government, which I assume meant out of the [Israeli] Embassy.”

        link to newsweek.com

        SO WHY DO WE KEEP SENDING THEM BILLIONS? THEY ARE INGRATES NOT WORTHY OF OUR CHARITY.

        They cannot be trusted even in our malls, trying to peddle their Dead Sea salts:

        link to timesofisrael.com

      • JLewisDickerson
        November 18, 2015, 5:41 pm

        RE: “There are also unsubstantiated rumours that Canada’s foreign minister John Baird was forced to suddenly, and unexpectedly, resign when it was discovered he was being blackmailed by mossad over activities he participated in at a party in London.”

        NOTE: ICYMI, @OpAnonDown is saying they (and Canadian journalists) have evidence John Baird is a paedosadist blackmailed by Mossad. (3 Aug 2015) – link to twitter.com

        NOTE: The National Post is reporting that Anonymous is threatening to release text messages from John Baird that allegedly reveal the ‘real reason’ he left politics. They claim he was being blackmailed by Mossad with incriminating photographs.
        Anonymous didn’t say they had a copy of the incriminating photo, they said they had text messages that referred to it. . . (August 3, 2015) – link to gangstersout.blogspot.com

  14. Boomer
    November 15, 2015, 3:20 pm

    This is very brave. We do, indeed, very much need a more just and honest foreign policy in general, and in particular regarding Israel/Palestine.

    • inbound39
      November 22, 2015, 3:24 am

      As long as American Pro Zionist Politicians cling to this repulsive and unjustified Special Relationship with Israel then America will never know peace and its citizens will be subject to the same treatment as Israeli’s by those opposing Israel and its criminal activities. The Sooner this registers with the American Government the sooner it will realise it has no other means of protecting its people or regaining its lost Status until it ditches Zionist Israel. It simply is not Justifiable nor is it credible. It is a cement block around Americas neck.

  15. MHughes976
    November 15, 2015, 4:09 pm

    I’m comfortable with the title. I think that there was truth in the remark by Paddy Ashdown, former Liberal Democrat leader,,that the Occupation is the ‘burning coal’ at the heart of all ME problems. Nothing would create a greater chance for peace in the wider region than peace in Palestine would, nothing else would give the more traditional and less violent forms of Islam more power to breathe again, nothing else would give Western policies a more constructive and just form.

    • ivri
      November 15, 2015, 5:41 pm

      @MH
      Have you really thought through what you said?
      Let`s see what we have around here:
      Shias, Sunnis, ISIS, Alawites, Yazidis;
      Turkey and its regional ambitions;
      South Sudan;
      Moslem brotherhood in Egypt;;
      Tunisia on the edge with internal terror;
      Libya dissected into fighting tribes;
      Iran vs. Saudi-Arabia and Gulf Emirates;
      Kurds feel oppressed in 4 countries in where they live as a minority and wish and ready to fight for (a bit like the Jews) to have a country of their own;
      Iraq`s split;
      Lebanon`s Sunnis, Christians and Hezbollah;
      Arab Christian communities in distress all around Arabia;
      ,Dire economic problems throughout the region with millions of displaced immigrants in it;
      And I can easily fill easily the page here with more than just these “headline” issues that flow from “my pen”.
      So you tell me, what on earth have all that have to do with whatever evolves with the Palestinians?

      • Elliot
        November 15, 2015, 7:05 pm

        Nobody holds me to account as a Jew for Israel’s murder of Palestinians. Uniformed Jewish police gun down non-Jews on the streets of Jerusalem to mollify the Jewish mob and nobody says to me: “look what you Jews are doing!” And the State of Israel is our baby. The American Jewish community identifies publicly with the State of Israel.

        But of a Moslem anywhere does anything, all Moslems are under suspicion and will suffer discrimination no matter their brand of Islam, their country of origin or political beliefs. That’s racism.

    • Elliot
      November 15, 2015, 7:03 pm

      I agree. We only believe Arabs when they say they hate the Jews, not when they say they love other Arabs.
      Why are we told to believe Arabs and Muslims when they supposedly say: we hate the Jews/we want to destroy Israel/we told Hitler to do it but not believe them when they say they act in response to the Palestinian issue?

      • MHughes976
        November 16, 2015, 12:51 pm

        Some, as far as I can see, mention the Palestine problem more than others – the Islamic State propaganda post-Paris, such as it is, has I think had a mainly anti-Christian flavour. Still, the Palestine problem is very long-standing, very high-profile and very clearly connected with several other problems within the region and beyond. For that reason all the others would be affected positively by a peaceful outcome in that place, which would also be a positive achievement for those we call ‘moderate’ (though it’s a patronising term and I don’t like it) Muslims.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 1:35 pm

        Why are we told to believe Arabs and Muslims when they supposedly say: we hate the Jews

        most arabs don’t say “we hate the Jews”. but to answer your question, we are told arabs have irrational hatred towards jews because

        a) we are being directed to believe arabs are motivated by hate (the worst possible state of beingness ) as a form of supreme demonization.

        b) we are being directed to believe jews are the (innocent) unwilling recipients of irrational hatred so we will sympathize with them.

        it’s just diversionary propaganda.

      • inbound39
        November 22, 2015, 4:26 am

        Elliot….it probably has a lot to do with what Herzl and Jabotinsky inspired the European Zionist Jews to do to Arabs when they arrived in Palestine. To remove them completely from the land so they could ressurrect a long dead place called Israel. Imagine the British response if a bunch of militant Italians arrived in London wanting to ressurect Londinium and wanted to force ALL the British citizens off the land. Israeli’s get back what they put out and they eventually will be over run……that is unavoidable if Israel refuses to move back to its legally declared borders.

  16. ThePolemicist
    November 15, 2015, 6:33 pm

    Great article. Nailing Bernie on the implicit arrogance of a stance in which an American Zionist politician is preaching to Muslims about how they must get their house in order. Spot on.

    Sanders was such weak tea on many issues. He should have hammered Hillary on Libya, but he let her get away with the whole “Gaddafi was about to murder everyone” narrative, and her mendacious assertion that regime change was authorized by some collective decision. The phrase I recall most from him was something like, “Of course, Secretary Clinton is right….”

    • kalithea
      November 15, 2015, 10:43 pm

      I hate to say Trump was right but Bernie snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by having Hillary’s back. He blew it, but then he would have ushered more of the same in regards to Zionism.

  17. tokyobk
    November 15, 2015, 6:45 pm

    I wonder how many readers here are familiar with Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, the founder of Zaytuna, the first accredited liberal arts college in the US which also offers a complete Islamic education. He and his co-founder Zaid Shakir, are two of the most interesting and imo thoughtful writers on Muslim life in in the Wes and both are extremely well versed in the history and literature of both civilisations. Here are some thoughts by Hamza Yusuf that strike the kind of balance that, I think Phil is attempting. In the earlier note on Paris, Phil had a list of people to watch. I would include both of these educators.

    link to zaytuna.edu

    • Annie Robbins
      November 15, 2015, 7:12 pm

      thanks for the link tokyobk. i had heard of the college in berkeley launched in 09 (not the original campus) just recently but i had never read anything by Hamza Yusuf before now.

      • tokyobk
        November 15, 2015, 7:28 pm

        Yusuf’s mentor by the way is Sheikh Abdullah bin Bayyah who is one of the most respected scholars in Sunni Islam who has been at the forefront of developing Islamic responses to calls to armed Jihad. Neither sees themselves as a “moderate” (that would concede the center of Islam) though they are given that title in the West.

      • Mooser
        November 15, 2015, 7:52 pm

        “As he tells it, Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, born Mark Hanson in Walla Walla, Washington, hails from a family of seekers. His journey to Islam began at age 17, when a head-on automobile accident led him to serious reflection on the meaning of life. In a spiritual quest over the ensuing decades, he converted from Christianity to Islam… “

        which introduces an interesting interview in the Cairo Review:

        “Everything that I loved about Christianity I got to bring into Islam. I didn’t see Islam as an abandonment of my Christian upbringing. I saw it as a fulfillment of it.”

        That’s one way to look at it. He’s a cool guy, here’s how he ends the interview:

        “CAIRO REVIEW: So it’s really an American story?
        SHEIKH HAMZA YUSUF: Yeah, I thought that if I ever wrote an autobiography, I thought of calling it “American in Mecca.” Or “Renegado.” The Europeans who fled to the Muslim World and became Muslim—they called them renegados.”

  18. Kay24
    November 15, 2015, 7:19 pm

    This is indeed a fine mess. This is the result of interference, toppling governments, greed for oil, pre-emptive strikes on nations that did nothing to provoke such strikes, scheming of western nations with the help of certain Middle Eastern nations who had their own devious agendas, and the arrogance of nations who act above international laws. An interesting article from Counterpunch shows there is enough of blame to go around:

    “This shorthand history of the elemental conflict currently raging across Syria, and also northern Iraq, and which has now come knocking on our door, places the crassness of David Cameron’s boast of ‘striking at the heart’ in its rightful context. We – i.e. the West – are in truth striking at the heart of nothing when it comes to the struggle against ISIS. Russia on the other hand is striking them, along with the Syrian Arab Army, the Kurds, and Iran. The extent to which their efforts are succeeding can be measured in this shocking series of attacks that have been carried out beyond Syria’s borders – starting with the downing of the Russian passenger aircraft over the Sinai, followed by the recent suicide bombing in southern Beirut, and now with this latest grisly episode in the heart of Europe. They reflect the desperation of a group that has suffered significant reverses in Syria and Iraq in recent days and weeks.

    No matter, if terror was the aim of the Paris attack, it has undeniably succeeded, leaving the French, British, and US government with a dilemma over how to respond, both in terms of security measures at home and their ongoing role in the conflict in Syria.’

    link to counterpunch.org

    • inbound39
      November 16, 2015, 5:09 am

      Yes Kay…..David Cameron cannot keep spending millions on Israel and armament to try and bomb back the results of their Middle East mess. America and Britain need to go back to 1948 and put right what they ran away and hid from…..Israel.

  19. yourstruly
    November 15, 2015, 8:06 pm

    Ending support for Jewish nationalism (Zionism) translates into putting an end to the U.S.-Israel special relationship, whereupon there’ll be this mass exodus of Israelis to Western countries, such that Israel will be so weakened it’ll be forced to negotiate with a popularly elected Palestinian leadership. A just and peaceful settlement is sure to follow. And the key to cutting off American support for Israel is educating the public to the fact that said support is the main reason “they” (the Arab/Islamic world) hate us. Yes, our military involvements elsewhere in the region (Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen) has something to do with said hatred, but even those actions can be attributed (at least in part) to our government’s blindness about Israel and its aggressive behavior towards its neighbors. What’s needed, then, is an ongoing campaign to sever the US-Israel special relationship, a movement whose slogan might be something like, “Defeat IS/ End US support for Israel.”

    • lonely rico
      November 16, 2015, 10:02 pm

      >yourstruly

      an end to the U.S.-Israel special relationship, whereupon there’ll be this mass exodus of Israelis to Western countries, such that Israel will be so weakened it’ll be forced to negotiate with a popularly elected Palestinian leadership. A just and peaceful settlement is sure to follow.

      Although I agree that when the US ends the special relationship (it can’t happen too soon) there will be many Israelis who decide to leave, I have difficulty sharing your optimism concerning the remainder who stay. Probably over-represented will be the settlers, the military, and the religious fundamentalists, armed to the teeth (with hundreds of nuclear weapons) with a deep hatred/fear of the Palestinians – not a reassuring scenario !

      We in the West have created this monster, ravening through the ME, and it is very difficult to see how we’re gonna be able to put it back in its cage.

  20. Sibiriak
    November 15, 2015, 8:52 pm

    Jewish nationalism per se isn’t the problem, and in any case, it’s not going away anymore than are Tibetan, Catalan, Basque, Quebecois, Kurdish, Romani, Georgian, Ukrainian, Abkhazian, Ossetian, Armenian, Albanian, Serbian, Croatian, Hungarian, Estonian, Latvian, Russian, Macedonian, Slovakian, Bulgarian, Tatar, Irish, Bosnian, Chechen, Tamil, Scottish, Oromo, Uzbeki, Bihari, Malay, Somali, Baluchi, Pashtun, Tuareg, Ewe, Muluccan, Kashmiri, Uighur, Tigrayan, Acehnese, Mayan, Aymaran, Quechuan, Yanomami, and Palestinian ethno-cultural nationalisms, just to mention a few.

    The problem isn’t Jews defining themselves as a people or nation, like many other ethno-cultural groups; the problem is Israeli violations individual rights, violations of Palestinian collective rights, violations of international law.

    Hence, BDS’s focus on ending violations of Palestinian rights: ending the Occupation (which prevents Palestinian national self-determination), ending discrimination in Israel, implementation of UN resolution 194.

    The creation of Israel is an historical crime that cannot be undone. Continuing crimes, though, must be stopped.

    • Kay24
      November 15, 2015, 10:38 pm

      The crime cannot be undone, but the culprits who made the biggest blunder, ever, by putting homeless refugees from Europe in hostile territories, should do the decent thing and remedy this. The UK and the US did not want them, so they decided to make them someone else’s problem. To this day not only have the transgressors become out of control, but they are aided and protected by those who did not want them.

      • inbound39
        November 17, 2015, 2:38 am

        Exactly Kay….time America stopped vetoing solutions at the UN and Britain quit abstaining at the UN and grew a pair and fix the mess.

    • kalithea
      November 15, 2015, 10:57 pm

      You just don’t get it — Zionism IS the problem because it is widespread cultish supremacy; not your regular nationalistic garden variety.

      • Sibiriak
        November 15, 2015, 11:21 pm

        @kalithea: I made reference to “Jewish nationalism per se , not actually existing Zionist practices .

        But I take it you would agree that if Jewish nationalism took a more benign form, like a number of other ethno-cultural nationalisms, you would have no objection to it. You would not object to a “garden variety” Jewish nationalism in Israel ?

      • inbound39
        November 22, 2015, 4:46 am

        Absolutely kalithea….it is the closest thing to nazism the World has seen since WW2 and America and Britain are falling over themselves supporting it……shameful.

    • echinococcus
      November 15, 2015, 11:25 pm

      Sibiriak,

      “Jewish nationalism per se” is of course the central problem. Each name on your long and misleading list of national groupings claims a common geographic area, a more or less common language and a shared culture. A (Romantic German-nationalist without Blut and without Boden) “Jewish” identity is exclusively religious, so exclusively religious that even the use of Kitchen Latin liturgy by Catholics, Irish or Chinese, is more uniform than the generally shared liturgical common-Jewish background.
      I’ll wait until you come with just a single “ethno-cultural” common Jewish element that’s objectively ascertainable, be it cultural or linguistic or racial or whatever, that’s not entirely religious-liturgical.
      Obviously anything posterior to the Zionist invasion, not just the “creation of Israel” is the historical crime. The UN seal of approval in flagrant contradiction to its own Charter cannot be invoked against justice. It can be undone; look at all the decolonization across the world. It all happened. Nothing less will bring justice.
      “Continuing crimes, though, must be stopped”, weep the hand-wringing variety of Zionists while pretending that the existence of a genocidal Crusader-state abomination in Palestine is not the continuing crime.

  21. Kathleen
    November 15, 2015, 8:53 pm

    “fuckin A” Phil this is one powerful piece. Knocked it way out of the park.

    Phil “Till we take that inventory, there will not be peace in the middle east, or the west either”

    Still would take Sanders for President over Hillary. Just do not think he is as big of a warmonger.

  22. JustJessetr
    November 15, 2015, 9:30 pm

    Shouldn’t this article be titled, “Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, but NOW we can score political points.”?

    Whatever. What a load of horseshit. The battle between Sunni and Shiite predates even the idea of Zionism. The fight of Islamic fanatics against dictatorships who rule without Sharia Law would continue if Israel dissapeared tomorrow.

    Phil, you are so shaken by how evil Islamists can be, so shaken you can’t provide a coherent defense for these lice, you twist yourself in knots to blame Israel instead. How you must hate yourself for being Jewish. I feel so sorry for you.

    Why don’t you go to Daesh-land and offer your services as a post-Zionist Jew? I bet they’d be happy to make the distinction between you and those you criticize and give you an important job with lots of benefits.

    • kalithea
      November 15, 2015, 11:54 pm

      @ JJ Your argument is so bitter and loaded with Zionist rubbish.

      I’m just glad there’s yet one more anti-Zionist Jew that’s on the side of justice and making the world a better place.

    • DaBakr
      November 16, 2015, 1:10 am

      @jj

      I feel sorry for him too. but you have to admit, he is pretty funny sometimes. he stated that he(he and his co-writer) are “not monocausal” . thats the funniest thing his written all year.

      ok-well maybe he has strong views about the local environment in hudson valley but please, give your biggest fans a break and be more honest about your view of Zionism .

    • Kathleen
      November 16, 2015, 11:53 am

      How about the truth: “Today’s a day to grieve for Paris. Everyday is a day to grieve for all Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhist, Hindu’s non religious innocents who are murdered in the name of fanatical ideologies”

      When Americans, Europeans, Israeli’s apply their alleged (selective) concern about heir “tribes” we would truly experience a different world.

      As Phil in so many ways points out…how many Muslims have been slaughtered over the last 25 years during the Iraq sanctions, Desert Storm, 43’s invasion of Iraq, birth of ISIS due to the invasion, drone killings, Obama/Clinton neocons desire to continue the PNAC/Secure the Realm agenda in the middle east.
      of
      As former head of the CIA’s Bin Laden Unit Michael Scheuer has written and said for over 10 years (Phil repeated it) that people in that part of the world do not hate us because of our lifestyle’s they hate us because of how our lifestyle’s (foreign policy) have for decades infringed upon their lives. Millions have died because of our foreign policy in that region. The neo, oil arms,, theo cons have all colluded in that rearrangement.

      Shameful…

    • JustJessetr
      November 16, 2015, 9:25 pm

      So predictable you couldn’t answer my main points, and resorted to name calling. Wow, “Zionist”. That’s like calling me a Protestant, utterly void of meaning.

      I used to actually worry a little bit about people like you. Now the cracks are really showing. Your main weakness is that you think people are stupid.

  23. Liz
    November 15, 2015, 10:51 pm

    Phil,

    This is such a remarkable essay. One of your best, for sure. Difficult things that so badly need to be said.

  24. yonah fredman
    November 16, 2015, 2:50 am

    Israel’s dependence on American power and protection as a counterbalance to its enmity with its neighbors sums up Israel’s essential strategic flaw.

    I don’t think the vision of chosen-ness is really central to the problem. Admittedly, there is a religious aspect given to the Holocaust through the vision of the state of Israel as an act of redemption after the abyss of the gas chambers. But the practical human reaction to something like the debacle in Europe is neglected. Those who separate themselves from their Jewish identity, can compartmentalize the Holocaust, as Otto Frank did to his daughter’s words: turn the tragedy into a human experience, of course is good, but to deny its specificity is to deny the facts and the raw mechanics. Those who do not separate themselves from their Jewish identities are left with a great gaping wound from what happened over 70 years ago. Many attempt or have attempted to cover up this wound with loyalty and devotion to the establishment of Israel. The new Jew to make up for the old murdered Jew.

    It’s complicated enough and interesting enough without the issue of chosen-ness and to emphasize the issue of chosen-ness and to neglect the human side of the post Shoah experience shows Phil Weiss’s bias against those who value their Jewish identity in a different way than his universalistic philosophy is able or willing to recognize as human.

    • Mooser
      November 16, 2015, 2:09 pm

      “Israel’s dependence on American power and protection as a counterbalance to its enmity with its neighbors sums up Israel’s essential strategic flaw.”

      Exactly, “Yonah”, you got it in one sentence. The fact is, the Zionists could never deliver, in any sense, morally, legally, or practically, what they promised, and Zionism (besides it’s crimes against the Palestinians and others) is a fraud on those who buy into it. And that, Yonah” is mostly us, the Jews. Thus Israel’s continued state of dependency, for one thing, and so much else.

      “It’s complicated enough…”

      No, “Yonah” it is not complicated at all. It is nothing more than it appears to be. Sorry to disappoint you. Just another one of those frauds we are prey to, but probably the biggest in history for us. Whoopee!

      And as far as chosen-ness goes, it’s not complicated, needn’t concern anybody. After all, we only really need to be “chosen” over the Palestinians, and how hard could that be?.

  25. gamal
    November 16, 2015, 2:58 am

    “The hypocrisy would be appalling were it not so functional: the biggest impediment to both the reform of Islam and peace in the Middle East that Americans have the ability to remove is our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted.”

    “the reform of Islam” what did you have in mind? and who have you slated for the job? will we get a call when the work has been completed? having called Sanders on belligerent self-righteousness, you want to do what to Islam? and why? supposing we refuse? supposing we reform wrong? you be ready to hold your nose and…..? No one can reform Islam, it would be like herding cats, we don’t have the hierarchy, no one has much authority, its all very democratic.

    war is not emanating from Islam, reforming Islam (see above) wont really engender peace,

    what precisely are the religious elements in these wars and what does it mean to be multi-casual in terms of these wars, any of them not involve the US and its regional and global ambitions and those of its allies? how is Islam causing war?

    ” ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted.”

    you find me one people anywhere anytime who think/thought they are/were ripe for settler colonization, just one will be the jackpot.

    “We should stop lecturing Muslims”

    but that will be Post Reformation? obviously.

    oh i missed the qualifier that Americans have the ability to remove, yes foreign policy in the US is outside the Sovereign will of the people, like domestic and fiscal policy, well you know something you mentioned reform, mate.

    Michel Collon an interesting and famous Belgian points out a few things you might want to keep in mind, it was the reform thing man, your parochialism is showing, whats a good and bad Arab

    link to youtu.be

    • can of worms
      November 16, 2015, 2:22 pm

      gamal, +1.

      “the reform of Islam…” — that’s a shocker alright.

      Some readers wrote they loved it, maybe they consider it ‘bold’ to draw a connection between neocons and Zio-cons. Well, one can be much ‘bolder’, in fact. Let me try.

      This piece alludes to the story of 911, and presents what is purported to be “a simple truth,” (culled secretly from testimony given after torture?), while the rest of us are expected to just sit here in silence with complicity because it’s one of the ground rules (rule 7) not to discuss this. I just find it incredible. If you don’t want us to discuss it, at least don’t lecture us about it.

      But when Islam is represented as needing of “reform” then you understand that what you are being presented with is just a softer Clash of Civilizations theory. Well if any theory is going to be banned, it should be “Clash of Civilizations” — the denial of the histories of the victims of racial liberalism.

      It is really humbling to think of how ordinary amateurs, out of a sheer desire to solve a puzzle and to oppose the tidal wave of institutionalized anti-Muslim racism, could undertake as much research as they did against the will of the majority, the will of the state, the will of the universities, and the will of sites that try to silence them. I wish we could give tribute to the incredible work done collectively by those derided “theorists” without which far fewer of us would be half-familiar today with words used in the article, like “neocons”, “PNAC”, “Wolfowitz”, “Zelikow”, “Perle”, “Commission Report”, etc. etc. etc.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 2:24 pm

        islam requires no reformation. this is not islam speaking, it’s the empire using muslims to carry out their grand designs. this is empire speaking telling us to get in line or else.

        15:03 not reform, renewal link to youtube.com

      • YoniFalic
        November 16, 2015, 2:37 pm

        Those calling for reform of Islam are mostly Zionists or are paid by Zionists and really mean that Muslims need to be as much enmeshed in Zionist beliefs and claims as far too many Christians and secular people of Christian heritage are.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 3:19 pm

        “15:03 not reform, renewal”

        Great link! But no “Hat Tip”?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 4:33 pm

        oh sorry! i watched a bunch of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf videos yesterday as a result of a search after tokyobk’s reference. the best being this one (highly recommended): link to youtube.com i appreciate your excellent contribution to that conversation.
        hat tip mooser!!!and tokyobk too.

      • MHughes976
        November 16, 2015, 3:54 pm

        Just to mention today’s main remarks in the Independent, the paper for mildly centre-left characters in the UK. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, perhaps this country’s leading Muslim columnist, bitterly bemoans the current state into which her religion has fallen, marked by people who are ‘backward, inward and easily led’. The general editorial line is for the crushing of Islamic State. The correspondence column, probably reflecting fairly the spread of opinion, has letters blaming Parisian atrocities on Islam, bad forms of Islam, Islamophobia, Western policy and religion in general.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 5:10 pm

        “hat tip mooser!!!”

        No, I can’t take any credit. All the credit goes to “tokyobk”. My only distinction is being from the same state, Washington, as Sheik Yusuf.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 5:12 pm

        he said he was raised in california. ;) my state!

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 5:23 pm

        “As he tells it, Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, born Mark Hanson in Walla Walla, Washington, hails from a family of seekers. His journey to Islam began at age 17, when a head-on automobile accident” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        California and Washington are very close together on the West Coast, only separated by the State of Oregon. It’s very easy to get them confused.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 8:49 pm

        ;) that explains it for sure. maybe we could split the difference. oregon it is.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 8:16 pm

        “the best being this one (highly recommended)”

        Watched. As much as I could, anyway. I may not have what it takes to understand it.

  26. Mayhem
    November 16, 2015, 7:14 am

    the biggest impediment to both the reform of Islam and peace in the Middle East that Americans have the ability to remove is our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted

    This assertion by anti-Zionist Jew Weiss encapsulates the position of those who are prepared to sacrifice the identity of the Israel to satisfy their ideological ends. The fact that few Arabs and Muslims don’t accept the right of Israel to be a Jewish state is the underlying problem that perpetually feeds the I/P conflict. It is totally unacceptable and outrageous in fact to posit that Jews don’t have the right to their own self-determination as a nation. There is nothing fundamentally militant in Zionism – the heart and soul of Zionism as it developed in the late 19th and into the 20th century was socialist and secular. The militarisation of Israel has been forced upon the state by the constant enmity of judeophobic Arab Muslims that have just one thought in mind, which it to throw the Jews into the sea.

    • eljay
      November 16, 2015, 8:25 am

      || Mayhem: … The fact that few Arabs and Muslims don’t accept the right of Israel to be a Jewish state … ||

      No state in the world – not even Israel – has a right to exist as a supremacist state. No-one in the world should be expected or required to recognize or accept the existence of any supremacist state.

      || … It is totally unacceptable and outrageous in fact to posit that Jews don’t have the right to their own self-determination as a nation. … ||

      No person in the world who wishes to be Jewish should be prevented from being Jewish. What’s outrageous is that hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you believe that the right for a person to be Jewish begets an entitlement to a supremacist “Jewish State”.

    • Philip Weiss
      November 16, 2015, 9:57 am

      I am far less interested in Israel’s identity than I am in American and American Jewish identity. I am about as interested in Israeli identity as French identity. Yr claims about the Jewish people implicate me, of course; and I reject them

      • a4tech
        November 16, 2015, 12:10 pm

        Without any meaning to offend or disrespect Phil, but I find your proclamation of self identity rather absurd. American Jewish identity, if there is actually one, is formed in the earliest during the 1900’s and 1940’s through the arrival of immigrants and displaced victims of WW2. It is atmost 100 years old, just a bit longer than a lifespan of a healthy Japanese woman. What exactly did the community do during this short period that made you disavow the identities of your ancestors that fall back to thousands years prior?

        So do you claim NY is your homeland that will be passed down to your children and theirs? English your mothertongue and your creation myth revolves around the Mayflower? While I respect your claimed identity as your own personal choice, I can’t help but feel for your descendants who will be stripped of their ultimate birth right, the unbroken connection to their ancestors.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 12:28 pm

        “Can’t help but feel for your descendants who will be stripped of their ultimate birth right, the unbroken connection to their ancestors.”

        Gee”a4tech” my entire family was swallowed up in the pogroms and Holocaust, leaving just a few disparate and broken individuals to wash up on US shores. (And we haven’t done too well here, either) I haven’t the foggiest notion of who my Jewish ancestors are and there is no way to find out. And there is no way to establish any connection. Should I just make something up to tell the kids?
        Gee, maybe I should tell them America killed all their relatives, so they don’t get too attached to the place. I wouldn’t want to deny them the “ultimate birthright”.

        “their ultimate birth right, the unbroken connection to their ancestors.”

        Nah, Phil spent their inheritance on this website!

      • eljay
        November 16, 2015, 12:31 pm

        || a4tech @ November 16, 2015, 12:10 pm ||

        Wow. So, have you given up yet pretending you’re a Muslim? ’cause, man, that was a fine bit of pure Zio-supremacist speechifying that no actual Muslim person would make.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 12:44 pm

        Gee, “a4tech” you have got to be the must wonderful Muslim in the world! A regular Sheikh Hanson! I don’t know of another Muslim in the whole world who is so concerned with whether or not Jews adopt the concepts and misconceptions of the Zionists! Your concern for Phil’s identity, and his children’s loss of ethnic and religious patrimony is quite touching.

      • Kay24
        November 16, 2015, 1:14 pm

        You guys are right. That is one, unusual Muslim, who shows SO MUCH concern for some Jews losing their identity and birthright.

        The lies start to unravel.

      • hophmi
        November 16, 2015, 1:56 pm

        “I am far less interested in Israel’s identity than I am in American and American Jewish identity.”

        Fair enough. You’re an avowed secularist. You’re against Jewish day schools, which are today the main source of comprehensive Jewish education. You’re opposed to circumcision. You don’t keep kosher. You don’t support any kind of real collective identity that members of other faiths enjoy many times over. You attack just about every Jewish leader there is and blame them for the war in Iraq, and the comment section of your blog is rife with overt antisemitism. So what American Jewish identity do you envision, really? Does it bear any resemblance to a religion, or it is simply taking however you choose to live your life and sticking a convenient Jewish label on it so that you can front for the BDS movement? And why should you be accorded credibility when you speak “as a Jew?”

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 1:57 pm

        What exactly did the community do during this short period that made you disavow the identities of your ancestors that fall back to thousands years prior?

        earth to 4tech, this is the modern world. most people don’t form self identities via an “unbroken connection to their ancestors” from thousands of years prior. that’s insane. the concept of an “ultimate birth right” which includes dispossessing other peoples of their freedom, home and land is crazy talk. i have no idea whatsoever who my ancestors from the bronze age are nor do i care. it’s not natural. What exactly did the jewish community do to instill this myopic ‘concern’ about ancient thousand year old ancestors and “ultimate birth rights” anyway? and why? to serve their colonial design? and why are you here spewing out this nonsense disingenuously disguised as a muslim? do you think it gives your irrational voice here more weight? this is a hollow attempt at brainwashing pure and simple.

        Without any meaning to offend or disrespect

        oh please. what a lie lie lie.

        I can’t help but feel for your descendants

        uh huh. feel away! what a load of guilt tripping crap. tell hasbrat central to send better trolls.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 2:25 pm

        ” That is one, unusual Muslim, who shows SO MUCH concern for some Jews losing their identity and birthright.”

        And, oddly enough, out of a multiplicity of ‘Jewish identities’ the one he picks, the one he is so eager Phil no trade for a mess of pottage (or a pound of pot, for that matter) is eggsack-ly the Zionist concept of Jewish identity. Isn’t that nice of him?

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 2:30 pm

        “You’re opposed to circumcision.”

        “Hophmi” the word, and operation covers a lot of territory in a small area of the male body. Even throwing out all the blood-straw stuff as insignificant , there are still better healthier choices to be made, without even abandoning the ritual. You really, really, want to shut up about this. Okay, warned you twice, you’re on your own. I’m done.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 2:43 pm

        “And why should you be accorded credibility when you speak “as a Jew?”

        Gee, I don’t know, “Hophmi”, maybe because Phil hasn’t thrown away his credibility as a human being, and a humane person? Perhaps, just perhaps, that might inform his credibility “as a Jew”.
        Or maybe, according to you, not.
        Maybe you could explain how the two intersect, or don’t

      • a4tech
        November 16, 2015, 3:09 pm

        Annie, Mooser and co. I would like plainly state for the record, that I am no Zionist nor am I under the employment of the Hasbara. I find it rather interesting to see how people on the other side of a cause behave so similarly, shutting down dissent with loud, coordinated shouting of Hasbarats, in the same manner as shouting Commie, Moslem, Terrorrist etc.

        Firstly, if I was truely a Zionist, I honestly would be gleeful at Phils claim of having no history past the arrival of Jews in America. For my enemy to hold such problematic, deeply self loathing view towards himself would only please me to no ends. It is a sure sign of weakness you would never see in strong, proud people.

        Annie said this is the modern world where ideas such as heritage, ancestry, cultural and ethnic pride are pointless and irrelevant. What a naive, privileged view to hold. I suspect being the hypocrite that you are, you would never say that to a proud black or native person.

        Please, having an identity of your own, sustained by the will and actions of the your people before you, is like wearing fine clothing. People may look and judge, but only you would feel the comfort and pleasure of having it on your skin. So its not surprising to me at all you would simply brush it off, because you probably never had the pleasure of being part of a people. For those who are lucky enough that have, divorcing yourself from your people and history is worst than death.

        Lastly, being Jewish isnt all about Israel and Zionism. You are the ones being dishonest in twisting my words as so. There will always be bad people within your ranks, but that doesnt mean you should abandon your place as soon as something bad happens. A Muslim Palestinian wouldnt be calling himself just another American, because of ISIS and Hamas, for what he is to gain from such claims is miniscule compared to losing his faith, history and sense of connection to his ancestors.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 4:58 pm

        speaking of twisting words, Phil never claimed of having no history past the arrival of Jews in America.

        i never claimed ideas such as heritage, ancestry, cultural and ethnic pride are pointless and irrelevant.

        i know what it’s about having ancestors like most people mine include famous heroes (who lived and died for their beliefs in social justice) as well as an occasional villain here and there, brutal racists, slaveholders and killers. being 9 generations american i come from a long line.

        and one thing should be abundantly clear to you, your dissent is not being shut down (if that were the case no one would be reading your comments because we wouldn’t publish any of them), and certainly there is no “loud, coordinated shouting” at all. everyone here communicates with their keypads.

        walk and talk like a duck you will be received like the hasbrat you are. carry on.

        p.s. regarding this absurd connection you’ve construed between “A Muslim Palestinian.. American” and ISIS, w/ only six degrees of separation between everyone on the planet it’s probable a dewy white newborn residing in madison wisconsin or tel aviv has a closer connection to isis than a palestinian american. you’re really a nut right out of netanyahu’s cheap political scoring playbook ilk.

      • JLewisDickerson
        November 16, 2015, 4:31 pm

        RE: “I can’t help but feel for your descendants who will be stripped of their ultimate birth right, the unbroken connection to their ancestors.” ~ a4tech

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      • eljay
        November 16, 2015, 5:19 pm

        || a4tech @ November 16, 2015, 3:09 pm ||

        This latest “I am not a Zio-supremacist” post is about as believeable as a guy saying “I’m not a violent man” and then grabbing the nearest person and beating the crap out of him.

        It’s not nearly as convincing as quoting the Qur’an. ;-)

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 5:36 pm

        “Annie, Mooser and co. I would like plainly state for the record, that I am no Zionist nor am I under the employment of the Hasbara.”

        Is that what you “plainly state for the record”? So these weren’t “for the record”?

        Being Muslim does not make me dumb to opportunists using the IP conflict as an easy outlet for their racism.” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        “It appears I’ve mistaken you as a fellow believing Muslim. – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        “Also fyi, passing a so called brother in faith’s sniff test in the internet is not a requirement for being a Muslim” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        “Also, theoretically we believe that everything living and dead are at their core Muslim, i.e. submit to the rules of Allah (which includes gravity and natural selection too!)” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        As a Muslim, even I can sense the latent anti-semitism in Allison’s so called campaign for justice for Palestinians,” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 7:38 pm

        he’s gone on the record so many times his head must be dizzy from all that spinning in circles.

      • Keith
        November 16, 2015, 5:58 pm

        HOPHMI- “And why should you be accorded credibility when you speak “as a Jew?”

        Does Phil not qualify for the right of return? You blaspheme against Ysrael? Besides, it’s his website so show some respect!

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 7:17 pm

        “Please, having an identity of your own, sustained by the will and actions of the your people before you, is like wearing fine clothing. People may look and judge, but only you would feel the comfort and pleasure of having it on your skin.”

        ROTFLMSJAO!!! Sounds to me like you are describing “the Emperor’s New Clothes”!!

        “So its not surprising to me at all you would simply brush it off, because you probably never had the pleasure of being part of a people. For those who are lucky enough that have, divorcing yourself from your people and history is “worst than death.” “Vursts then death”! Whatta bunch of baloney.

        Poor Annie, just a ‘commoner’. Not for her the aristocratic lineage, without which life is worst than death! Who the f–k are you, the Duke of Bilgewater?

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 7:47 pm

        “he’s gone on the record so many times”

        True, but he will have a hard time topping this one:

        “Hitler opposed slavery, imperialism and neocolonialism that a vast majority of readers here directly or indirectly benefitted from. Hence their cognitive dissonance.” “a4tech”- See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        I sure wish “a4tech” would explain that one. Is the Mondo readership really worse than Hitler?

      • a4tech
        November 17, 2015, 11:34 am

        Eljay,actually respecting your ancestors is often topic of speech for Muslims. In the Quran itself, it is stated God made us into many nations for us to get to know each other. It is clearly mentioned that we are not made to all amalgamate into one mess of a nation, but to live together as many nations, which makes perfect sense if you consider our evolutionary traits for tribal belonging. Phil, Annie, Mooser and so on are trying to subvert natural law for their agenda and it is so embarrassingly transparent.

        There is an African proverb that says a person is only a person because his people, or something like that. As such no proud Zulu would forsake his history and ancestors by claiming he’s a black South African christian over being a Zulu. That is a census category, not an identity!

        In Islam, it is decreed that you shall forever be a loyal servant to your parents, even if they reject Islam for themselve (but defend your faith if they actively fight against it) This is because just by becoming Muslim, it doesnt give you a new identity, a new biological root, and new ethnicity. You are still of the many nations God has created you as,so being Muslim should make you appreciate your people more, not less.

        As such, I find the idea of identifying yourself as ultimately a “Jewish American” just disrespectful to your ancestors who had existed before America entirely, and definitely before the Jewish American term can to be.

      • eljay
        November 17, 2015, 12:55 pm

        || a4tech @ November 17, 2015, 11:34 am ||

        That’s better. Much more Muslim-y than your previous post.

      • Mooser
        November 17, 2015, 1:25 pm

        Phil, Annie, Mooser and so on are trying to subvert natural law for their agenda and it is so embarrassingly transparent.”

        Oh, this ain’t nothin’ “a4tech”! You ought’a see what we do every other month when the moon is full!!

        “As such, I find the idea of identifying yourself as ultimately a “Jewish American” just disrespectful to your ancestors”

        Burn some joss sticks. Maybe you can propitiate them, or even have them leave and become your ancestors. That’d teach us.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 17, 2015, 3:01 pm

        Phil, Annie, Mooser and so on are trying to subvert natural law

        omg how did i miss this! the horrors, subverting natural law.

        and i love this o so sophisticated strawmanning:

        no proud Zulu would forsake his history and ancestors by claiming he’s a black South African christian over being a Zulu

        well done 4tech!

        the zulu!
        who knew
        proud like u
        me too?
        i wrote this rhyme
        4 techie boo hoo

      • Annie Robbins
        November 17, 2015, 3:04 pm

        i can’t believe i made it all the way thru that brilliant poem without having it occur to me that “jew” would have rhymed too. oh, jilted again. oh well, next time.

      • Mooser
        November 17, 2015, 1:31 pm

        “That’s better. Much more Muslim-y than your previous post.”

        Yes, he is working hard to make Muslims look backward and racist, and incapable of participating in the democratic process. He is promoting the idea of some kind of essential Muslim ‘dual loyalty’. I think he’s full of it.

        Anyway, if Mondo is “subverting natural law”, any time we return to the 19th Century or earlier, he can file a complaint with the EPA.

      • Mooser
        November 17, 2015, 3:29 pm

        “can’t believe i made it all the way thru that brilliant poem without having it occur to me that “jew” would have rhymed too. oh, jilted again. oh well, next time “

        Don’t feel bad, Annie. Over on the thread about Israeli marriage, I suggested the musical question: “Are Jews Makin’ Love to Your Old Lady, While You Was Out Makin’ Love?”

      • Annie Robbins
        November 17, 2015, 3:57 pm

        i know, i commented under it ;)

      • gamal
        November 17, 2015, 4:17 pm

        “In the Quran itself, it is stated God made us into many nations for us to get to know each other. It is clearly mentioned that we are not made to all amalgamate into one mess of a nation”

        “It is clearly mentioned that we are not made to all amalgamate into one mess of a nation”

        a4tech

        this for example 5:48 or 49:13, so

        would you care to prove that baseless lie and slander.

        I think that i am entitled to insist that you do so in an al asl fil kalam al haqiqa mood to avoid dispute
        and tasfir al quran bil quran stylee to guard against any extraneous shit.

        also in the chambers/rooms/apartments/hujurat he does start by pointing out not unreasonably that first you are males and females, no fraternizing there either?, or do you think the old goat might have been hinting at,.. well ask a Jew about Biblical Knowing, its the best kind?

        speaking of biological roots do you know Desi Roots, he insists you go deh right, if you do it darling….you are expected to do it right.

        link to youtu.be

      • biggerjake
        November 17, 2015, 4:53 pm

        Since we are all ultimately related to a four foot tall black female hominin (ape) Australopithecus afarensis from what is now Ethiopia….this thread seems a little….ridiculous. link to news.nationalgeographic.com

        “While I respect your claimed identity as your own personal choice, I can’t help but feel for your descendants who will be stripped of their ultimate birth right, the unbroken connection to their ancestors.”

        Yes Phil….how would Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis) feel if she could hear you say that you identify as a Jewish American and not a black Ethiopian ape?

      • RoHa
        November 17, 2015, 6:20 pm

        @a4tech.

        Could you help me out here, please? I’m a little puzzled.

        I am Australian, of English birth and ancestry, dual British/Australian citizenship. My wife is Japanese, by birth, ancestry, and citizenship. My bilingual son, though born in the USA, was mostly brought up in Australia.* He has four citizenships.

        Among the many mixed-ancestry children at his school, there is a particularly brilliant girl whose father is Chinese and whose mother is an Islander. (Samoan, I think.)

        Let us suppose that my son was lucky enough to marry this girl, and they had children.

        Taking into account “biological roots” , “respect for ancestors”, etc., what would be the “identity” of these putative children?

        My brother married an Australian woman who was born in Scotland and is of Scots ancestry. One of his daughters married an Australian man whose parents came from Austria. She has a daughter. What is the “identity” of the daughter?

        (*Though he visits his grandparents in Japan quite often. Sometimes he meets his half-French, half-Japanese cousins there, when they are visiting Japan from Paris.)

      • echinococcus
        November 17, 2015, 8:46 pm

        Eljay,

        Unfortunately 4tsch could and should have done much better. For starters, he could have made sure he was on the “Islam” page in Wikipedia instead of “Animist Culture”.

      • Citizen
        November 18, 2015, 5:26 am

        @ hophmi

        No Western country except the USA indulges in routine baby boy circumcision–for very good reasons if one has researched the issue. Of course, for Muslims and Jews, it’s a religious or tribal matter. Given this is so, what’s your point in raising this matter on this thread?

      • a4tech
        November 18, 2015, 9:34 am

        Roha, I hope you didnt misconstrue the spirit of my comments, which were definitely not against marrying and having kids with anybody you love.

        Now, obviously the examples you listed presents the highly complex knots and ties of ancestry and heritage that can occur within one family. IMHO the first and foremost form of identity for the children in these families are that of their parents, in equal terms. After that, its going to be up to them. If they are part Samoan part Asian, so be it. But eventually they will have to discriminate between the two, maybe just so slighty because bearing two identies is a load too great for humans. The direction of the discrimination would be a matter of probabilities. The elder might grow up embracing the Samoan side more, while vice versa for the younger. Eventually though, over multiple generations, the family will be split back to its constituent forms, one entirely Chinese and one entirely Samoan.

      • a4tech
        November 18, 2015, 9:55 am

        Mooser : Yes, he is working hard to make Muslims look backward and racist, and incapable of participating in the democratic process. He is promoting the idea of some kind of essential Muslim ‘dual loyalty’. I think he’s full of it. – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        Prove these nasty accusations you liar! Calling someone to embrace his roots and heritage instead of trying to fit in a imaginary identity such as “Jewish American” is racist? No! Jewish American is what the government calls you, since you happen to have an American Passport and prescribe to the Jewish ethnoreligious practices ( in some form or another). What would happen if tomorrow America decides to restructure itself into multiple sovereign states? This identity of yours will surely vanish into thin air and what will become of your children then? Ex-American Jews who came from a short line of American Jews?

        To be racist you need to be enact unjust violence towards another race. Violence can be in many forms; chiefly in thought, words and action. When did I ever call for any of this Mooser!

      • eljay
        November 18, 2015, 10:45 am

        || a4tech @ November 18, 2015, 9:55 am ||

        The flip to Muslim has flopped back to Zio-supremacist.

        || … Calling someone to embrace his roots and heritage instead of trying to fit in a imaginary identity such as “Jewish American” is racist? … ||

        Calling an American to abandon his American roots and heritage and instead embrace Israeli roots and heritage is Zio-supremacist.

        || … Jewish American is what the government calls you, since you happen to have an American Passport and prescribe to the Jewish ethnoreligious practices … ||

        Well, duh.

        || … What would happen if tomorrow America decides to restructure itself into multiple sovereign states? … ||

        America would cease to exist and new states would come into existence.

        || … This identity of yours will surely vanish into thin air and what will become of your children then? … ||

        They, like he, would become citizens of one of the new states created out of the demise of America.

        You quote the Qur’an, so you cannot be anything other than a Muslim. And yet you expend a tremendous amount of effort to convince Mooser – a Jewish American – that he is actually an Ancient Israelite. Where is your concern for your deceived fellow not-really-Muslim-Americans?

      • a4tech
        November 18, 2015, 11:20 am

        Eljay, if it appeared that I called for anyone to abandon their American roots, then my bad and I take it back. But, the point I was trying to make is being American doesnt mean you abandon everything that came before America. Sure you can be a Jewish American, but to say that is your only core identity, your race and your ethnicity, that of which you will pass down to your children is a problematic stance to hold, if not for that person then his kids.

        As for the Muslim American part, hey, there are very few of them in the community and often these people have some sort of internalized complexes regarding ethnicity, religion and nationality. But I can say for sure, most of confident, proud and smart ones are fiercely loyal to their culture, ancestry, and heritage outside of America just as to their American identity. You will absolutely NEVER find a self assured educated Muslim Iranian, Palestinian, Arab, Sudanese, or any other groups that will forgo even a slither of their heritage to be more American.

        On the otherhand, here is Phil, perfectly willing to shed 99.5% of his ancestry and heritage built over thousands of years across various nations, for the 0.5% American part. I just don’t get it.

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 11:37 am

        “… Jewish American is what the government calls you”

        I pray to the Mods above to help me with this comment!

        Listen to me you […] and […] ! Are you really that stupid? […] The American government knows me as a citizen, an American citizen. They don’t have the slight […] idea what my religion is,! (unless I volunteer it on an info form, or to a private poll-taker or something.)
        Believe me, my IRS forms do not, not say “Derbig Mooser, Jewish American”, they simply say “Pay up!”

      • eljay
        November 18, 2015, 11:40 am

        || a4tech: … the point I was trying to make is being American doesnt mean you abandon everything that came before America. … ||

        You’re assuming that for every American there is something that came before America that he must embrace.

        || … Sure you can be a Jewish American, but to say that is your only core identity, your race and your ethnicity, that of which you will pass down to your children is a problematic stance to hold, if not for that person then his kids. … ||

        If being Jewish American is your core identity, there’s no need to embrace any other identity, no matter how much someone else tells you that you must.

        || … here is Phil, perfectly willing to shed 99.5% of his ancestry and heritage built over thousands of years across various nations, for the 0.5% American part. … ||

        As far as I can tell, he’s still Jewish American. He hasn’t shed anything and, unlike you, he hasn’t embraced a supremacist Jewish Israeli identity.

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 11:49 am

        “Without any meaning to offend or disrespect Phil,”

        “On the otherhand, here is Phil, perfectly willing to shed 99.5% of his ancestry and heritage built over thousands of years across various nations, for the 0.5% American part”

        Now he’s got it down to tenths of a percent! Excuse me, “a4tech”, but would you mind “showing your work”, as we used to say in Algebra class? What was the formula and process you used to derive those exact percentages? What part does “genetic transfusion” play?

        And the heck with Phil, he’s balebatim. What about a balegoola like me, who’s not even sure who his parents are, let alone his grandparents, and everything before that just disappears? What should I do?

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 12:01 pm

        “What would happen if tomorrow America decides to restructure itself into multiple sovereign states?”

        Damn it! I have got to start reading those ballot forms my wife makes me fill in (she’s big on voting) more carefully. Is that what I checked “yes” about the other day? Democracy in Washington State hasn’t been quite the same since we legalized pot.

        “I just don’t get it.”

        Well, it’s about this long, and about this wide, and about this country, about which we’re singin’ about!

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 12:30 pm

        “Prove these nasty accusations you liar!

        Sure! from your very next comment:

        “As for the Muslim American part, hey, there are very few of them in the community and often these people have some sort of internalized complexes regarding ethnicity, religion and nationality. But I can say for sure, most of confident, proud and smart ones are fiercely loyal to their culture, ancestry, and heritage outside of America just as to their American identity. You will absolutely NEVER find a self assured educated Muslim Iranian, Palestinian, Arab, Sudanese, or any other groups that will forgo even a slither of their heritage to be more American.”

        No need to bold anything, it’s all damning.

        We get it, “a4tech”, you are saying that Muslims cannot live as Americans in a democratic country. Next you will tell us that Muslims have a genetic predisposition towards a Caliphate. Pretty easy to see what you are up to.

      • RoHa
        November 18, 2015, 11:50 pm

        @a4tech

        Let me try to understand this.

        You seem to be suggesting that, at some stage, my putative mixed English/Japanese/Chinese/Samoan grandchildren will one day decide they are just English or Samoan. Or, if they don’t, my great-grandchildren, who (Australia being the sort of place it is) will have Sri-Lankan, Chilean, Afghan, and (God save us!) Irish ancestors as well, will pick one out of the tangle as an “identity”.

        Is that something that will inevitably happen, through some natural process?
        If so, what process?
        What reason do we have to suspect such a process operates?

        It seems far more likely to me that they will ignore the mish-mash of ancestry and just be Australians.

        Or do you think there is some sort of moral obligation for them to pick one out, even if they do not particularly want to?

        If so, how is that obligation grounded?
        Does it have more moral weight than the obligation to think of themselves as loyal Australians?
        And, as biggerjake noted, would it not, when applied consistently, require us all to take ‘black Ethiopian primate” as our “identity”? (Though really we ought, like Pooh Bah, trace ourselves back to the initial protoplasmal primordial atomic globule.)

        Actually, quite a lot has been written about “identity” on MW. Most of it is total bollocks. The bit that isn’t is what I have written, and that can be summed up as follows:

        What the devil is this “identity” thingy, anyway? I keep asking; I don’t get a coherent answer. And I suspect that if you can’t say what you mean, it’s likely that you don’t really mean anything.

        What is the point of all this fuss about it? Does “identity” feed the hungry, or heal the sick? Does it make your cat obedient, or get you a discount at the liquor store, or stop your hair from falling out? As far as I can tell, it just serves as an excuse for people to deny their common humanity and make trouble.

        What good has this “identity” stuff ever done anyone?

      • eljay
        November 19, 2015, 11:03 am

        || RoHa: … Actually, quite a lot has been written about “identity” on MW. Most of it is total bollocks. The bit that isn’t is what I have written … ||

        You, sir, are awesome!

        \m/  > , <  \m/

      • RoHa
        November 19, 2015, 5:51 pm

        A little unfair to you, eljay. Your posts on the topic have always been firm rejections of the nonsense.

      • eljay
        November 20, 2015, 9:21 am

        || RoHa: A little unfair to you, eljay. Your posts on the topic have always been firm rejections of the nonsense. ||

        Much appreciated but, honestly, I wasn’t bucking for praise. I was just expressing my admiration. :-)

      • inbound39
        November 22, 2015, 5:01 am

        Hophmi……what a sad statement you make….your whole diatribe tells me you cannot stand on your own two feet. That you are afraid to stand up for your own beliefs and principles and need a gang of people to feel whole. Doesn’t say much for you as a person. Phillip gets my support hands down.

    • Kay24
      November 16, 2015, 10:35 am

      “The fact that few Arabs and Muslims don’t accept the right of Israel to be a Jewish state is the underlying problem that perpetually feeds the I/P conflict.”

      That can be remedied very easily. For decades Israel has not recognized the Palestinians, acknowledged their rights, nor given them their basic freedom as human beings, which any country that calls itself a “democratic” nation should have done.

      Actions speak louder than words, if Israel wants to be accepted by it’s neighbors, start by removing the MAIN cause of the conflict – give the Palestinians THEIR state, and stop stealing all their lands. Israel cannot expect to be loved or accepted when it keeps doing hateful things to it’s neighbors and keeps the status quo going. It is asking for the impossible.
      Simple.

      • hophmi
        November 16, 2015, 1:51 pm

        Israel’s already virtually accepted by its neighbors. I don’t know where you’ve been. It has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt, and a working relationship with most of the states in the Gulf.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 16, 2015, 2:08 pm

        “Israel’s already virtually accepted by its neighbors”

        You mean by the unelected despots who run these countries?

        As someone who has spent years living in the Middle East, I can tell you that nobody outside the corrupt dictatorships ‘accepts’ Israel. Quite the contrary. It is universlly loathed in the region, and hardly anybody thinks it will be around indefinitely. That is why Israel is so terrified of Arab democracy, and much more comfortable with dictators – the more miliatristic and right-wing, the better.

      • oldgeezer
        November 16, 2015, 2:20 pm

        @hophmi

        But but but… i thought zionists claim the root cause was arab rejectionism of the israeli state. What happened to that sea of enemies that surround it?

      • eljay
        November 16, 2015, 2:35 pm

        || oldgeezer: But but but… i thought zionists claim the root cause was arab rejectionism of the israeli state. What happened to that sea of enemies that surround it? ||

        He’s saving that for the next time someone comments on Israeli belligerence and militarism.

        With Zio-supremaicsts, black is only black when it’s convenient; otherwise, black is white.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2015, 2:36 pm

        “What happened to that sea of enemies that surround it?”

        “Hophmi” is like King Canute. He commands the tides. Must be low tide now.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 16, 2015, 2:55 pm

        @oldgeezer

        “What happened to that sea of enemies that surround it ”

        What about them? THey serve a different propaganda purpose. But they’ll be hauld out once the need arises,don’t you worry.

        I bit like how millions of Israelis were cowering under the relentless barrage of khamas rockets last summer, and yet the airport was perfectly safe for foreign tourists with money to spend!

      • Kay24
        November 16, 2015, 2:56 pm

        Hopee, Hoppee, you know very well that Jordan and Egypt has “accepted” Israel because the US is paying them generously to make sure their borders with the zio land is safe for God’s chosen, and that there is stability for them from those nations. Do not for a minute think Israel is loved and accepted by the people, it is ALL about the aid.

        Let me back that up with an article from MDW written by Phil:

        “America’s billion-dollar-plus annual aid package to Egypt does not exist for Egypt’s benefit, but for Israel’s. It’s the carrot, or bribe, that keeps Egypt faithful to its peace treaty with Israel, despite its enormous unpopularity on the Egyptian street. That treaty is critical to Israel.”

        I think Goldberg is right; and this is the reason that the US will not suspend aid. I have often stated here that the US supported a dictatorship in Egypt for decades because of US support for Israel– that the self-determination of 80 million Arabs counted for nothing when it came to the US determination to maintain a Jewish garrison state that was established by war and preserved by force.”
        – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        Be realistic now.

      • amigo
        November 16, 2015, 4:23 pm

        “Israel’s already virtually accepted by its neighbors”hopmi

        You must have downloaded the “Zionist virtual reality” app.

        “Virtual reality is an artificial environment that is created with software and presented to the user in such a way that the user suspends belief and accepts it as a real environment.”

        A farmer friend of mine once had a cow that was virtually pregnant.

        .

      • Keith
        November 16, 2015, 6:21 pm

        HOPHMI- “…and a working relationship with most of the states in the Gulf.”

        Yes, Israel and these other states you mention are the ones providing massive support to ISIS and the rest of the radical Islamists who are committing massive atrocities against regimes targeted for destabilization. No doubt these fundamentalists contribute to anti-Semitism in the Middle East and Europe.

      • talknic
        November 16, 2015, 7:18 pm

        @ hophmi “Israel’s already virtually accepted by its neighbors. I don’t know where you’ve been. It has peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt, and a working relationship with most of the states in the Gulf”

        A) Israel had to withdraw in order that there be peace. link to wp.me

        B) R these the same states in the Gulf ?
        link to mondoweiss.net

        The lack of a peace agreement with Lebanon has more to do with Syrian influence and the inability of the Lebanese to govern their own state than anything else, and any student of politics knows it

        Nothing to do with invasions Israel has launched? Amazing!

        Israel doesn’t have a peace agreement with Saudi Arabia either, and it’s got nothing to do with any land conflict. It’s got to do with Saudi Arabia’s rejection of Israel’s right to exist.”

        That’s despite Saudi Arabia backing the Arab peace initiative ACCEPTING Israel’s right to exist. An initiative Israel has refused to even acknowledge.

        The lack of peace with Syria has as much to do with Syria’s support for terrorist groups within Israel’s own border as it does with Israel’s occupation of the strategically important Golan Heights

        Israel only got peace with Egypt when it withdrew form territory sovereign to Egypt.

      • Citizen
        November 18, 2015, 5:12 am

        @ talknic

        Arab Peace Initiative is unacceptable, says Israel’s peace talks chief link to toi.sr via @timesofisrael

        Says Arab Peace Initiative changed by Arabs since 2002.

      • talknic
        November 18, 2015, 7:05 am

        @ Citizen “Arab Peace Initiative is unacceptable, says Israel’s peace talks chief “

        None of the reasons given by Israel have any legal basis link to toi.sr . The Arab initiative demands only the Palestinians legal rights under the Law, UN Charter and relative conventions.

        The Israelis spout bullsh*t!

        The only people with RoR to Israel are non-Jewish Israeli citizens who are now far far outnumbered by Jewish Israelis. In fact they were outnumbered by the mid 1950s with the huge influx of Jews from the Arab states and elsewhere

  27. hophmi
    November 16, 2015, 9:27 am

    “The biggest impediment to both the reform of Islam and peace in the Middle East that Americans have the ability to remove is our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted.”

    Do you EVER listen to yourself? Do you really think that Salafist Jihadism wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t a Jewish state?

    WHO CARES if some Muslims and Arabs don’t accept what most Jews accept? Should we start living our lives based on the desires of ISIS now? Perhaps we should cancel our democracies and put away our women too. Then we’ll really get rid of the problem.

    • Mooser
      November 16, 2015, 12:11 pm

      Perhaps we should cancel our democracies and put away our women too. Then we’ll really get rid of the problem.”

      Gosh, looks like Israel is taking your advice, “Hoph”. Good outreach. Like they always told us ; you should get while the gettin’s good!

    • Annie Robbins
      November 16, 2015, 2:06 pm

      Do you really think that Salafist Jihadism wouldn’t be a problem if there wasn’t a Jewish state?

      it wouldn’t be our problem that’s for sure. this whole empire thing trying to conquer the ME to “civilize” the people is a big ruse made all to clear by the PM humping all over this tragedy to promote the hatred of palestinians for his own self interest and colonial designs. link to mondoweiss.net

      • hophmi
        November 16, 2015, 3:41 pm

        “it wouldn’t be our problem that’s for sure. this whole empire thing trying to conquer the ME to “civilize” the people is a big ruse made all to clear by the PM humping all over this tragedy to promote the hatred of palestinians for his own self interest and colonial designs.”

        So your position is that Salafism wouldn’t be a problem for the United States if not for Israel, correct?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 4:11 pm

        incorrect. my position is that Salafism wouldn’t be a problem for the US if not for empire. insofar as israel impacts empire (they do) and empire impacts to protect israel (they do) they are of course connected and that’s a big problem. but i wouldn’t go so far as to say “if not for Israel” because if israel didn’t exist the empire and globalization could easily act/impact the regions w/similar schemes. i don’t believe everything we do is solely for the benefit of israel (example, iran deal wasn’t solely for the benefit of israel). but our current wars in the ME? clearly i can’t make the argument they were not driven to a large extent for the benefit of israel hops. after all, there’d be no need for a lobby if all this would happen anyway without them. the neocon lobby is a primary driving force behind american foreign policy. someday, hopefully, a metaphorical stake with be stabbed thru its (lobby) metaphorical heart and the metaphorical vampire will be (non metaphorically) dead, forever.

        meanwhile the empire is engaged in global geopolitical competitions for resources with other world powers (of which israel is not and will likely never be).

      • hophmi
        November 17, 2015, 3:23 pm

        “incorrect. my position is that Salafism wouldn’t be a problem for the US if not for empire”

        If it’s about empire, why are there jihadi terrorist bombings in places like Kenya and Lebanon? Are these empires?

        “i don’t believe everything we do is solely for the benefit of israel (example, iran deal wasn’t solely for the benefit of israel). but our current wars in the ME? clearly i can’t make the argument they were not driven to a large extent for the benefit of israel hops. ”

        I think that’s super silly. The United States has geostrategic and economic interests in the Middle East. Israel isn’t even a small reason that we went to war in Iraq.

        after all, there’d be no need for a lobby if all this would happen anyway without them.”

        It certainly would have. George Bush and Dick Cheney didn’t bomb Iraq because of any lobby. They did so because they thought Iraq was behind 9/11 and because they wanted to finish off Saddam.

        You believe in conspiracy theories, I’m sorry to say. There’s just no truth to these theories at all.

      • Citizen
        November 18, 2015, 4:57 am

        @ hophmi
        The head of the 9/11 Commission said that Israel was a key reason why it happened & he’s never retracted that conclusion although it was obfuscated by generic conclusion in the published report to the public. Did you ever hear of PNAC? Bin Laden also named US support of Israel as his motive, right alongside sacrilegious US assets plopped down in Saudi Arabia.

        PS: Government classification of documents and secrecy codes make rational, plausible connecting of dots inevitable when folks encounter conflicting evidence defying official explanations.

      • talknic
        November 18, 2015, 7:10 am

        @ hophmi

        “George Bush and Dick Cheney … did so because they thought Iraq was behind 9/11 …”

        You actually believe the crap you write?

      • diasp0ra
        November 18, 2015, 7:34 am

        @Hophmi

        “They did so because they thought Iraq was behind 9/11”

        Are you for real?

        Then why the hell did the US go to Afghanistan if they thought Iraq was behind 9/11. If they thought Iraq was behind 9/11 why not simply use that as the pretext instead of making up WMD claims that they knew were false.

        Answer: They didn’t, because Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

        What nonsense. Anyone who is even remotely read knows that Al-Qaeda and Saddam’s regime were mortal enemies.

      • Mooser
        November 18, 2015, 12:37 pm

        Hophmi: ““They did so because they thought Iraq was behind 9/11”

        Guess they had a little conspiracy going, huh? And Hophmi’s very next line:

        “You believe in conspiracy theories, I’m sorry to say.”

        ROTFLMSJAO!

      • hophmi
        November 18, 2015, 3:52 pm

        And of course, on the premise that Iraq had WMD’s. But go on believing the Arab world conspiracy theories that Israel was the reason why.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 18, 2015, 4:06 pm

        citizen: @ hophmi The head of the 9/11 Commission said that Israel was a key reason why it happened & he’s never retracted that conclusion –

        we already told him this. he knows and understands. it’s like talking to a brick wall why do we even bother?

  28. James Canning
    November 16, 2015, 1:13 pm

    That there was a deliberate effort, after “9/11”, to conceal from the American public the reasons Osama bin Laden launched the attacks, is well established.

  29. dajson
    November 16, 2015, 1:58 pm

    I believe a two state solution is the best approach to the problem of Israel. We need all parties involved to recognize that America and Israel are two separate states and should each conduct their business as such. This should resolve what is at the heart of all the problems in the world that have sprung from the mistake of America thinking of Israel any other way.

    • mariapalestina
      November 17, 2015, 2:29 pm

      Too late for any sort of two a solution. Bibi has made it clear he has no intention of supporting any kind of state for Palestinians, and even if (as he claimed) he was kidding just to get votes) it’s clear that the most Israel would ever be willing to accept for Palestinians is a demilitarized state riddled with illegal squatter colonies surrounded by Israel Death Force protectors, with borders still controlled by Israel. In effect no different from the situation now. I suppose it’s possible the Palestinians will be allowed to keep some of their water, but I doubt it.

      Best and only possible option: One single secular democratic state with justice and equality for all regardless of race, color or creed. I had lunch the other day with a pretty iconic Film and Television actor in Hollywood. You would all know him. He’s a well known activist who speaks out on many civil rights and human rights issues. He supports Palestinians and a two state solution. When I suggested two states is dead and that it will have to be one state, he said that wouldn’t be acceptable because the Jews would lose their majority. He was serious. And he didn’t seem to see any problem with that thinking.

      • Sibiriak
        November 17, 2015, 11:48 pm

        mariapalestina: Too late for any sort of two a solution. Bibi has made it clear he has no intention of supporting any kind of state for Palestinians…
        —————

        So, Bibi’s (Israel’s) intentions are the decisive factor?

        If that’ true, then your “one single secular democratic state” is even more impossible, since Bibi (Israel) would oppose that with vastly more unbending intent. Giving up the entire Zionist dream would be far, greater anathema to Bibi (Israel) than giving up a portion of the Zionist dream.

        Clearly, if there is to be any kind of solution to the conflict, Bibi’s (Israel’s) intentions will have to be overridden, and Israel will have to be compelled by external forces to give up its Greater Israel aims.

        Compelling Israel to give up some settlements and end the occupation of Palestine will be much easier than compelling Israel to give up Zionism entirely.

      • Citizen
        November 18, 2015, 4:52 am

        Did you ask him what he thought of the notion that the US should declare itself a white Christian nation? Otherwise, demographics would extinguish its core value? Existential issue. Would the actor respond that the Jews are entitled to at least one country of their own because the white Christians and Jews have so many? Would you then bring up the fact European countries have now copied the US concept of a proposition nation, defining the rights of the respective citizen without regard to race, ethnicity, color, or religion?

    • diasp0ra
      November 18, 2015, 7:36 am

      Haha! Good one!

      @Maria

      Read the post again, notice which states need to be recognized as different.

  30. guidecca
    November 16, 2015, 2:51 pm

    As an atheist I don’t need or have an agenda on the issue. History speaks louder than any comment or blogger and is saying that Israel was a bad idea. America was open to immigration. Homeland for Jews in Palestine was and is the ruin of us all. And it is too late to change things. The genie is out of the bottle.

  31. biggerjake
    November 16, 2015, 4:13 pm

    link to independent.co.uk

    Spain issues an arrest warrant for Netanyahu…

    So should the US.

  32. MRW
    November 16, 2015, 4:14 pm

    Phil,

    Particularly liked this piece.

    Apropos this:

    Because of the inward self-governing structure of the Jewish community, anyone who says that apartheid is apartheid is a heretic who must be excommunicated; but even if you conclude that it has all the elements of apartheid, as Peter Beinart told Rabbi Sharon Brous in a Los Angeles synagogue last week, well you must support it, you must not boycott it, you must describe it as a democracy.

    Commenter David Habukkuk on Colonel Lang’s site had a particularly clear-headed insight in a thread (about Baratz) last week. He dings that two-tongued Beinart.

    A few observations. A few days back, Philip Weiss had an entry on his ‘Mondoweiss’ blog, entitled ‘Why I am a Zionist.’ Of course, the point of his discussion is that Weiss is not a Zionist: what he was doing was reviewing a series of explanations by influential American Jews of why they are Zionists, and what precisely they saw that commitment as entailing.

    (See link to mondoweiss.net )

    Reading it, I felt as though I was passing behind a row of ostriches, all with their plumage raised towards the sky, and their eyes and ears firmly buried underground.

    An example. The ‘liberal Zionist’ Peter Beinart wrote:

    ‘Is my view shaped by the fact that as a Jew I’m attached to the idea that in a post-Holocaust world, there should be one state on earth devoted to Jewish self protection and Jewish self-expression? Yes. I plead guilty. I’m not a pure universalist.’

    I read this with utter amazement. Is this man such an over-educated ass that he cannot grasp that – precisely because of the truths you are telling – such danger there is to Jews outside Israel in today’s world lies primarily in the fact that people may come to believe that what that country has become is the ‘self-expression’ of some kind of authentic Jewish identity?

  33. Danaa
    November 16, 2015, 9:09 pm

    A little more on the matter of souls:

    Tricky business that, the soul of a religion, or a movement, or an ideology. Ever the scientist, I wonder – does soul operate as a liquid, flowing from one vessel (religion) to another? or is it more like a gas that expands to fill up every crevis in the original container? or is it solid, making for a hard core at the center, surrounded by the great emptiness of mere words spawning (somehow) intertwining strings of rituals, devotions and beliefs?

    The once great Jews had a name for the soul of Israel – they called it Shechina. Pre-Israel, the adopted national poet Bialik wrote about the tears of Shchinah, crying for the children of the people of Israel, scattered every-which-way. He must have known much about that elusive, perhaps illusive, soul. Which somehow failed to touch me enough for reasons unclear. May be I had something like soul immunity? well,I never got chicken pox either, having been exposed multiple times.

    If imagine that if the soul of Judaism was something like a liquid, and it got somehow contaminated by the evil seeds of zionism (cf. ultra ethnic nationalism), could it have flown through to the outer layers of Jewish culture (whatever that is), leaking out of its pipelines, then bursting into an ether filled dimension where all religions live? further infecting Islam along the way and may be susceptible parts of Christianity too?

    Phil implies, and I tend to agree with him, that the contamination of the Jewish culture that grew around Judaism (and the culture IS infected, big time!) may have been a key factor that beget the infection now gnawing at the soul of Islam. I like analogies (far-fetched ones best of all) so Phil’s contention – which strikes me as deeply true – reminds me of the Ebola agent that jumped species. How exactly, we still don’t know, but it’s essential to acknowledge the fact of transmission if we are to avoid more serious outbreaks.

    Well, just some more food for thought for those more etherially inclined.

    • guidecca
      November 17, 2015, 6:11 pm

      Seems like religions are solids that are immutable objects based on text that cannot be verified but can be ignored and used as a tool to bash other people with. Most religious people ignore any text that might turn them into human beings and are incapable of adhering to lessons that involve sacrifice – hypocrites.

  34. JohnWV
    November 17, 2015, 4:53 am

    As a signatory to the Non Proliferation Treaty, Iran accepts continuing IAEA inspection and has an internationally recognized right to develop and implement nuclear technology. Having rejected both IAEA inspection and the NPT, Israel has no such right. Yet the Jewish State has hundreds of nukes and openly threatens Iran, actually campaigns for war against Iran. Israel, not Iran, is the warmonger. Resolution lies with lifting all sanctions and compensating Iran for damages from the $$$ billions United States will no longer be giving the Jewish state. A nuclear Iran would wonderfully disrupt Israel’s racist and brutish Mideast hegemony.

    • talknic
      November 17, 2015, 10:03 am

      JohnWV “As a signatory to the Non Proliferation Treaty, Iran accepts continuing IAEA inspection and has an internationally recognized right to develop and implement nuclear technology. Having rejected both IAEA inspection and the NPT, Israel has no such right”

      Not so. Israel is an IEAE member. It receives the benefits of IEAE Membership despite refusing to sign the NPT.

      • biggerjake
        November 17, 2015, 11:10 am

        This is one big reason why the IAEA has become a joke. Once upon a time it was an independent agency dedicated to non-proliferation. But now it is just another tool of the US and Israel used to demonize countries that they don’t like. From the book Manufactured Crisis:

        Manufactured Crisis shows that US-Israeli strategy was aimed at using the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to build a case that Iran’s nuclear program had been merely a cover for a nuclear weapons program. That case would serve as the basis for United Nations Security Council actions that would punish Iran, or even for unilateral US military action against Iran. As a result the IAEA, which had previously been a relatively nonpolitical actor performing technical analysis of nuclear programs, was transformed over the 2003– 8 period into an adjunct of the anti-Iran strategy.

        Porter, Gareth (2014-06-18). Manufactured Crisis: The Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare (Kindle Locations 137-141). Just World Books. Kindle Edition.

  35. unverified__5ilf90kd
    November 17, 2015, 8:38 am

    “the biggest impediment to both the reform of Islam and peace in the Middle East that Americans have the ability to remove, is our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted.”

    Phil, you finally said it. You have been making your way to this statement for several years. Congratulations.

    You also said “Americans have the ability to remove (is) our support for a militant Jewish ideology that few Arabs and Muslims have ever accepted. ” This is indeed the elephant in the room, the emperor with no clothes. It does not account for the entire problem but it is highly significant.

    At least in these pages we are analyzing “the militant Jewish ideology” with unprecedented honesty and clarity, but this openness is still not found in the MSM. Similarly, the MSM does not allow us to ask the questions “Why did they attack us on 9/11?” or “Why did they attack Charlie Hebdo?” or “Why did ISIS attack Paris?” The MSM usually glosses over these answers with simple platitudes about our freedom and Western morals not being acceptable to Muslims. It is taboo to mention Israel in this context, except as another victim of Islam.

    The reason why the MSM avoids asking the questions above and fails to explore the causes and effects of Militant Jewish Ideology is because ultimately many Jews and others in the MSM realize that the answers will not reflect well upon the reputation of Israel, the integrity of her supporters, and the honesty of the MSM. But it is becoming abundantly clear that our national failure to analyze the elephant in the room (Israel) is causing us severe problems that are compounding daily.

    The problem of course is in essence that we are not defining the problems with us or with Islam that cause the pathology behind the war against us. In other words, who are we fighting, why are we fighting them, why do they hate us and how can we plan to heal this wound? We simply cannot get into detail about these issues without inciting the wrath of most Israelis and their supporters. Too many in the MSM are reluctant to expose themselves to this hostility, either because of personal bias or because of fear of the consequences. This lack of integrity is astounding and its existence is also suppressed.

  36. atime forpeace
    November 17, 2015, 8:15 pm

    Phil, you really did a phenomenal job of covering the waterfront to some degree.

  37. rosross
    November 17, 2015, 9:58 pm

    It is oxymoronic to talk of Jewish nationalism. Judaism is a religion and religions have no rights to lands, homes or States, nor any right to nationhood, particularly not in the modern democratic world.

    More to the point, if there were a concept of Jewish nationalism then it would mean all religions had the same rights and so we would have Christian, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Muslim nationalism. What a ghastly mix that would be.

    The enlightened modern world developed democracy to create order, justice and to liberate people from theocracy and rule by religion.

    Jews cannot have their religion recognised as nationhood without every other religion getting the same rights. Jews cannot have their religion recognised as nationhood and be a part of the modern, democratic world.

    The entire concept, beyond being irrational is backward.

    • Sibiriak
      November 17, 2015, 11:27 pm

      rosross: It is oxymoronic to talk of Jewish nationalism.
      —————

      No it isn’t. In this case, the word “Jewish” does not refer to a Jewish religion ; it refers to a Jewish people , many of whom are not religious.

    • Citizen
      November 18, 2015, 4:36 am

      “The Jewish people.”
      Judaism
      Wiki: peoplehood

      “For some critics, Jewish Peoplehood is still an amorphous and abstract concept that presents an optional ideological approach towards the Jewish collective. Others wonder if it is too weak a foundation on which to base Jewish collective identity, especially since the vision of Peoplehood is not predicated on having any kind of religious or spiritual identity.

      The proponents of Canaanism, a movement developed by nationalist immigrants to the British Mandate, on the other hand, rejected “Jewish peoplehood”, saying that Judaism is a religion, not a nation. Canaanists such as Yonatan Ratosh described themselves as “Hebrews”, using an explicitly non-religious self-description. They felt that Judaism, as a religion, was not rooted to the land of Israel as Hebrew ethnic identity”

  38. Kay24
    November 18, 2015, 7:09 am

    This is interesting (and hope true), Putin reveals that he knows of 40 nations (including G20 members) from where ISIS is financed…..I hope he reveals all soon.

    link to themindunleashed.org

    Anonymous also reveals the names of ISIS recruiters. I think the world will want to know names at this stage.

  39. lonely rico
    November 18, 2015, 7:37 pm

    Good Lawrence Davidson article @ MWC –

    Thanks to its racist policies and brutal aggressiveness, the Zionist state has become the most divisive issue for Jews throughout the Western world.

    link to mwcnews.net

  40. pabelmont
    November 25, 2015, 12:51 pm

    Where did ISIS, Al-Qa’eda, Taliban, Boko Haram come from? Well, not just from anti-Zionism. The AQ/ISIS appears to be a reaction against [1] modernity in Arab countries (itself a mark of cultural or economic imperialism from USA and EU) and [2] American and Zionist armed presence as armed imperialists sitting where they’ve got no business to be at all (in AQ’s and ISIS’s view) in greater Arabia.

    Now Israel is the longest-in-place of these viewed-as-imperial incursions, and getting rid of Israel (or, maybe, I’ve not looked into this, making a fair peace which stopped Israeli armed violence against Muslims) would deflate some REASONS for ISIS and AQ. And removing the USA’s armed presence from Saudi Arabia and Iraq/Israel and various military bases over there, and removing American oil companies — all this would erase the imperial PRESENCE and to a large extent erase the REASONS for the anger and the very existence of ISIS AQ et al. (With Boko Haram, starvation or other resources problems might have to be dealt with to end the REASONS for BH.)

    But, after saying all that about the REASONS, let me say that these groups now EXIST and it remains to be seen if their followers would keep following in the absence of these REASONS. And anyway it appears that USA and Israel have no intention of removing their imperial presences (at least, in the USA’s case), until the world is well “off” of oil. However, as Global Warming/Climate Change heat up (in observable effects), there ought to be more difficulties arising from resource-sharing (water, food) and population shifting (food, water, economic, and human-rights refugees). So if the world “went off” oil, the USA might withdraw from greater Arabia, but Israel would not, and all these GWCC-based problems would (I believe) create sustaining REASONS for ISIS, AQ, BH, Taliban.

    OTOH, strangling Wahhabism in its cradle (Saudi Arabia) might help since — some believe — the deviant Islam of Wahhabism lies behind all these movements.

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