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‘New York Times’ uncorks laughable Israeli propaganda

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Here’s a brief summary of Jodi Rudoren’s latest public relations release for Israel in the New York Times, titled “Israel Aims to Recreate Wine That Jesus and King David Drank”:

Our Scriptures say we Israeli Jews had wine back in King David’s day.

We will re-breed those grapes by digging up ancient seeds.

Therefore we have a right to the land, dating back thousands of years.

What’s more, we can use this propaganda article to try an end run around the European Union’s new policy of labeling goods from illegal settlements.

The key paragraph of the article is characteristically buried half way down.

With a budget of about $750,000, mainly from the Jewish National Fund — a century-old Zionist organization that has helped transform Israel’s agricultural landscape — Mr. [Eliyashiv] Drori and a dozen colleagues have since 2011 identified 120 unique grape varieties whose DNA profiles are distinct from all imports. Around 50 are domesticated, Mr. Drori said, 20 of them “suitable for wine production.”

The flurry of meaningless statistics about grapes cannot hide that remarkable characterization of the Jewish National Fund — a century-old Zionist organization that has helped transform Israel’s agricultural landscape. Yes, the JNF accomplished that miracle by helping to uproot hundreds of Palestinian villages and displace hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, a project that continues to this day. By charter, the JNF is dedicated to “redeeming” the land — by buying it and giving it only to Jews.

There are many more examples of hasbara in this laughable article. The second paragraph repeats the headline and describes the goal as to “recreate — ancient wines drunk by the likes of King David and Jesus Christ.” That’s a shrewd move — and not just for its transparent pander to Christian Zionism. Notice that no ancestors of today’s Palestinians are mentioned as having been around back then to quaff any of those wines.

No, they show up later, in this Orientalist tidbit:

But winemaking was outlawed after Muslims conquered the holy land in the seventh century.

The subtext is that “Muslims” invaded from outside with repressive anti-wine measures. And the Jews had already been there for more than a thousand years.

As Mr. Drori, “the Ariel oenologist who heads the research,” states:

“All our scriptures are full with wine and with grapes — before the French were even thinking about making wine, we were exporting wine,” he said. “We have a very ancient identity, and for me, reconstructing this identity is very important. For me, it’s a matter of national pride.”

Identity? He’s the Ariel oenologist! He lives in Ariel, an illegal settlement on the West Bank, which France and other countries are taking steps to label as such.

Rudoren goes by email to a Palestinian for the token on-the-other-hand quote:

“As usual in Israel, they declare that falafel, tehina, tabouleh, hummus and now jandali grapes are an Israeli product,” Amer Kardosh, Cremisan’s export director, sniped in an email. “I would like to inform you that these types of grapes are totally Palestinian grapes grown on Palestinian vineyards.”

He “snipes” — it must be sour grapes!

If you think this story is silly and innocent, consider: it’s the lead article in the New York Times‘ international section, accompanied by three photographs. That’s where the paper tells its readers what’s going on in the world. And what a disturbing choice the Times is making, when there’s so much real news in Palestine to report. For instance, the photographed murder of Hadeel al-Hashlamoun, 18, by Israeli soldiers just two months ago at a checkpoint, in which no one has been charged. The Times hasn’t covered the fact that Amnesty describes this as an “execution;” it hasn’t lifted a notebook to interview the woman’s family (as Allison Deger has for this site).

(UPDATE: On Twitter, @bruculino points out another cunning tactic in the article.  A small map shows the “Recanati Winery,” which is trying to produce the new wines, located in pre-1967 Israel. The map does not show Ariel, the location of the university doing the agronomic research, which is in a settlement/colony in occupied Palestine.  @bruculino asks, “Is NYT trying to assist Israel in circumventing international law on settlement-based production?”)

CORRECTION: Our original post said that the Israeli oenologist, Eliyashiv Drori, “lives in Ariel, an illegal settlement on the West Bank, which France and other countries are taking steps to label as such. Though the Times doesn’t tell you any of that.” We are mistaken. The second paragraph in Rudoren’s article does say that Ariel University is in “the occupied West Bank,” which does strongly imply that he both works and lives there. We have removed the erroneous sentence, and we apologize for the error.

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130 Responses

  1. a blah chick
    November 30, 2015, 11:57 am

    Wasn’t the JNF originially called the Jewish Colonial Fund? Funny how that never gets mentioned.

  2. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    November 30, 2015, 12:12 pm

    ” a century-old Zionist organization that has helped transform Israel’s agricultural landscape ”

    Wow. What a surprise that Rudoren’s swan song should be a twist on ‘making the desert bloom’.

    And I do love the ‘balance’ provided by having a token Palestinian ‘snipe’ over Israeli theft of what are OBVIOUSLY Arab foods. I mean, if we’re going to believe that nobody in the Middle East knew how to grind a chick pea until those clever folks from Poland and Ukraine came along, how come all these foods have Arabic names? Why not Hebrew or Yiddish names? And if the Zionists are going to insist on laying claim to these dishes, they could at least do them the courtesy of pronouncing them correctly, ie not khummmmuuuuus.

    • diasp0ra
      November 30, 2015, 1:15 pm

      It’s always very telling how Zionists appropriated much of the Arabic language to build modern Hebrew, appropriated our foods and in some cases our clothes, took over our lands and still want to act as if they are the indigenous population, and that we are the outsiders when all they have been doing is emulating our folklore while denying it to us.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 30, 2015, 1:37 pm

        And note that while they still promote the ludicrous claim that they are the ‘indigenous’ people of the land, at the same time they want to be seen as ”Western”, as in a bulwark of civilisation standing firm against the Arab/Islamic hordes, a ‘villa in the jungle’ as Ehud Barak (born Ehud Borg) put it.

        It’s a bit like how Israel is a safe haven from ‘anti-semitism’ one day, and under ‘existential threat’ the next. Or how Israel is a ‘Western’ country when it suits, but when it doesn’t – ie when Israel comes under criticism – it can only be compared with ‘backwards’ Middle Eastern countries which dont’ have those amazing super dooper liberal Gay Pride parades.

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2015, 1:45 pm

        “t’s always very telling how Zionists appropriated much of the Arabic language to build modern Hebrew,” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comment-812749

        Give me a ball park figure on the percentage of Arabic words that were appropriated into the Hebrew language. Could you name 7 Hebrew words that were appropriated from Arabic?

      • Kris
        November 30, 2015, 2:26 pm

        @yonah fredman: “Could you name 7 Hebrew words that were appropriated from Arabic?”

        When you want to learn about something, it is often possible to find information on the internet, by typing key words into the google search engine. You might want to look at this: http://www.openpolytechnic.ac.nz/current-students/study-tips-and-techniques/reading-and-research/reseach-using-the-internet/

        I found the following information by typing “Hebrew words that came from Arabic” into the google search engine:

        Primarily, however, the influence of Arabic on Hebrew exists not in semantic transfers, but in loan words, loan-translations, and morphological patterns. Loans are the most obvious, such as the word adīv (‘polite’), which comes from the Arabic adīb (‘cultured’); morphological patterns can be found in such constructs as the Hebrew greeting boqer ṭōv (‘good morning) and its refrain boqer ōr (‘morning of light’)—modelled after the Arabic ṣabāḥ al-khayr (‘good morning’) and ṣabāḥ an-nūr (‘morning of light’).28 As Blanc noted, Arabic’s influence on Hebrew has taken place largely on a ‘non-official’ plane.29 This is particularly evident when examining a number of loan words that have entered MH through Arabic. These words fall into the following categories: words describing (a) manners of life and milieu, (b) food, (c) children’s games, (d) expressive descriptions and onomatopœtics, (e) greetings, and (f) interjections and curses. Clearly, some of these groupings are specialised and the import of Arabic loan words may have resulted from a need for new words that was greater than the ‘official’ ability to supply them.

        For example, the climate of Israel features the hot, south-western wind—the ḥamsīn—a word borrowed from Egyptian Arabic. Other words adopted from (or through) Arabic include finjān (‘coffee pot’), chīzbāṭ (‘tall tale’), dūgrī (‘straight-forward speech’), grūsh (‘a penny’), basṭāh (‘market stall’), and mukhtār (‘village chieftain’). Many Hebrew words for Oriental foods betray an Arabic origin: fālāfel, ṭeḥīnāh, ḥūmmūs, and ʿaraq, as well as ribbāh (‘jam’), sūmsūm (‘sesame’), and mūz (‘banana’). Even the term for the cactus fruit whose name is synonymous with native Israeli culture—the ṣabbār—comes from Arabic. Children’s games also kept similar names; children play bandūrāh (a marble game) with jūlōt/jūlīm or blōrōt (‘marbles’). Another popular toy is a ṭayyārāh (‘a kite or small plane’).

        Shehadeh has observed that most of the Arabic words in slang dictionaries are adjectives.30 This demonstrates how Arabic has provided Hebrew speakers with a colourful and innovative method of expression. Such words include: sabābāh (‘terrific’), aḥlāh (‘excellent’), aslī (‘genuine’), mabsūṭ (‘happy’), kéyf (‘fun’), ḥaflāh (‘party’), stalbeṭ (‘relaxation’), baʿsāh (or baʾsāh, ‘bummer’), fādīḥāh (‘faux pas’), fashlāh (‘screw-up’), maʿafan (‘lame’), nāḥs (‘lousy’), zīft (‘crap’), jānānāh (‘craziness’), ḥafīf (‘carelessly’), fisfūs (‘loss’), masṭūl (‘wasted, high’), zimzūm (‘hum, buzz’), nādīr (‘rare’), rasmī (‘official’), and reṣīnī (‘serious’). Other terms describe personalities, stereotypes, and emotional connexions: ṭembel (‘fool’), ahbal (‘idiot’), ʿars (‘pimp, conniving macho’), saḥbāq (‘chum’), ḥamūlāh (‘clan or extended family’), tafrān (‘pauper’), ḥabūb (‘buddy’), ʿayyūnī (‘darling’), fréḥāh (‘bimbo’), salāmtō or salāmtak (‘good guy’),

        Arabic has also influenced IH greetings and interjections. Israelis greet each other with ahlān (‘hi’), call each other ḥabībī (‘my friend, dude’), urge each other on with yaʾllāh (‘come on’), and question each other with waʾllāh (‘really?’). Other common phrases include saḥtéyn (‘well done!’), be-ḥayyāt (‘for heavens sake’), ashkārāh (‘for real, truly’), maʿaléysh (‘no matter’), daḥīlaq (‘please, for goodness sake’), yaʿnī (‘that is’), ʿālek (‘yeah, right’, with sarcasm), dīr bālaq (‘watch out!’), barūd (‘heads up!’, when using explosives), and wardāh (‘ahoy!’). Some idioms, as well, mirror or even copy directly Arabic ones. As noted above, the ‘good morning’ exchange represents a Hebrew adaption of the Arabic model; in the case of the saying, yōm ʿasal, yōm baṣal (‘a honey day, an onion day’—i.e., ‘some days are good, others bad’), the Arabic phrase is imported word-for-word, no doubt owing to the phonetic similarity to Hebrew cognates. Almog has noted that thirty per cent of the Arabic words adopted into IH slang were curse words.31 Most are quite vulgar—but because they are not technically Hebrew words, speakers use them with less inhibition than if they were part of the ‘official’ lexis. A few of these swear words and insults include: īnʿal rabbāk/dīnāk/abbūk (‘curse your Lord/religion/father’), sharmūṭāh (‘slut, whore’), and a reference to the recipient’s mother, sometimes bastardised into the nonsensical kūsʾemet. http://dglnotes.com/notes/arabic-hebrew2.htm

      • gamal
        November 30, 2015, 2:50 pm

        “into the nonsensical kūsʾemet”

        really, kus ummak is far from meaningless in Arabic, title of famous poem about the nation (Egypt) don’t use it in polite society.

      • diasp0ra
        November 30, 2015, 4:19 pm

        @Yonah

        Have a whole page of em:

        http://dglnotes.com/notes/arabic-hebrew3.htm#Appendix

        It’s no secret that Modern Hebrew in its first inception wasn’t exactly very modern, as it didn’t have any words that could describe modern inventions and day to day activities. Even Herzl himself argued against using Hebrew in the proposed Jewish state, in Der Judenstaat he argues:

        “Who amongst us has a sufficient acquaintance with Hebrew to ask for a railway ticket in that language? Such a thing cannot be done.”

        So Hebrew needed to be modernized, and it needed to cannibalize thousands of words from many languages to make it an actually usable language. One of those languages it borrowed heavily from was Arabic, among many others.

      • JWalters
        November 30, 2015, 5:51 pm

        Zionists routinely attempt distraction, shifting attention from the core issue to some petty point. It’s great to see this tactic so thoroughly demolished with overwhelming evidence. It shows them for the ignorant, arrogant fools they are, rendering their pretense of erudition hilarious. Thanks all for the good laugh!

      • echinococcus
        November 30, 2015, 8:32 pm

        Diaspora,

        Finally one thing the Zionists undoubtedly learned from good old US and not the other way around: looks as if we showed them that no genocide is really successful without adopting and folklorizing your victim’s culture. Otherwise said, dead Injuns (or Palestinians) are dead ones and should be celebrated.

      • ziusudra
        December 1, 2015, 12:59 am

        @ Kris.
        Modern Hebrew is completed in 1922AD in Palestine by
        Eliezer ben Yehuda, a remarkable Opus. He also produced the 1st Hebrew Dictionary.
        Mr Yehuda realized that Hebrew was out of date not having been in usage since 200BC except in liturgical scriptures or ancient musings.
        He employed Semitic Aramaic & Egyptian vocabulary with Hebrew Suffixes. Ancient Hebrew Dialect of Canaanite simply lacked in vocabulary & modern Syntax.
        Without Aramaic & Egyptian, he might as well had modernized Jiddish.

      • yonah fredman
        December 1, 2015, 8:02 am

        The words, except for adiv as courteous, are words that everyone who uses them realizes is the native lingo and not Hebrew. Hebrew is a porous language. just as Yiddish was a porous language, adapting to the surroundings and including words from various languages. The words okay and bye are part of Modern Hebrew. But everyone knows that they are not Hebrew. No one who says fadiha or fashla (unless they are ignorant) mistakes them for Modern Hebrew.

      • yonah fredman
        December 1, 2015, 8:59 am

        This is what is wrong with internet communication versus talking politics on the street corner (as in east 14th and union square). Besides the idiots who don’t know a word of Hebrew but still want to cut and paste and feed their own venom with their own idiocy. Besides the distractions of idiots of that sort, there are idiots of another sort, who wish to diss Hebrew. Of course, doogri, yalla, i can count many Arabic words and inshallah i will think of more after this comment is posted. and if that was your point, then granted. but in fact dissing Hebrew is a habit of some here and I can’t recall if that was you. Hebrew is a grand language and those who put her down are idiots.

      • eljay
        December 1, 2015, 9:11 am

        || yonah fredman: … Hebrew is a porous language. just as Yiddish was a porous language, adapting to the surroundings and including words from various languages. … ||

        That sounds assimilationist. Or perhaps self-loathing. Why do Hebrew and Yiddish hate Jews so much?!

      • eljay
        December 1, 2015, 9:43 am

        || yonah fredman: … Hebrew is a grand language … ||

        What does “grand language” mean and what, exactly, makes Hebrew a “grand language”?

        Or is Hebrew a “grand language” in the same sense that Israel is a “moral beacon” and the IDF is “the world’s most moral army”?

      • yonah fredman
        December 1, 2015, 10:14 am

        el jay- You are such a kidder. Hilarious.

        Seriously, the relationship of assimilationism to self hatred was raised by Adrienne Rich in her essay “split at the root” http://www.public.asu.edu/~hiroshi/eng101/documents/rich.pdf
        discussing her Jewish father and his ambivalence towards Jews or Judaism or Jewishness. This is in fact a serious subject. (For example. Madeline Albright’s parents not telling her that they used to be Jewish before they converted so as to protect her from the knowledge of the disability that is Jewishness, according to their way of thinking, certainly raises serious questions.) if you really want to discuss the topic of Jews trying to pass, whether there is some self hatred involved, I actually think that this is a deep and worthwhile discussion.

        But my guess is that you don’t really want to discuss this topic. Just want to crack wise.

        As far as calling Hebrew a grand language: it is deep, it is old, it is versatile. The Psalms were written in it. The Mishna was written in it. The Jewish prayer book was written in it. Most of the Original Testament was written in it.
        But for those who hate religion and especially the Jewish religion, I suppose that it is not a grand language. But study it before you reach any conclusions or before you cast aspersions.

        I especially like the Hebrew alphabet, where the word sheker, or lies, consists of 3 adjacent letters each with a single point base, whereas emet or truth consists of 3 letters from a wide range of the alpha bet, (aleph bet) and each has a wide base.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        December 1, 2015, 11:43 am

        @eljay

        I’m also wondering what a ‘porous’ language is. My academic background is in Linguistics, and as far as I’m aware all languages are ‘porous’ in that they pick up influences from the languages around them, particularly with regards to vocabulary. This is especially true when, as is the case with Hebrew, the surrounding languages are related to it. There’s no such thing as an impermeable language. I guess Yonah is trying to garner ‘special snowflake’ status for the Zionist state’s ‘national’ language?

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        December 1, 2015, 11:46 am

        Then there’s this:

        ” Hebrew is a grand language and those who put her down are idiots. ”

        Her?Hebrew’s a lady?

        I can just hear Yonah humming to himself:

        “When a Yonah loves a Hebrew
        She can do no wrong
        Turn his back on his best friend
        If he put her down”.

      • Theo
        December 1, 2015, 11:48 am

        diasp0ra

        90% of the so called jews, who emigrated to Palestina, have not a single drop of hebrew blood, but are converted khasars and other peoples from Europe.
        When the soviet jews came, it is well known that about 30% of them had nothing to do with being jewish, they just wanted to get out of the Sovietunion. The israeli government is aware of this, but they needed a head count to head off an arabic majority in the country, what will come sooner or later anyway.
        With all those wars and turnovers in Palestina during the past 2,000 years, even how many local jews can be sure of having hebrew ancestors? This aliya is a sham, people returning to someplace where they or their ancestors never been!

        Should the peoples on this globe all decide to go back where they lived 2,000 years ago, what a chaos we would have. All americans who are not of indian decents must leave the country!

      • eljay
        December 1, 2015, 11:58 am

        || yonah fredman: el jay- You are such a kidder. Hilarious. … ||

        You’re too kind, y.f. :-)

        || … Seriously, the relationship of assimilationism to self hatred was raised by Adrienne Rich … ||

        She concluded that the porousness of Hebrew and Yiddish amounts to assimilation and self-hatred? Huh.

        || … As far as calling Hebrew a grand language … ||

        It sounds like you consider it a “grand language” because you like it. A lot. Fair enough.

        I thank you – sincerely – for having taken the time to reply to my questions.

      • Mooser
        December 1, 2015, 12:35 pm

        “The words, except for adiv as courteous, are words that everyone who uses them realizes is the native lingo and not Hebrew.”

        The native lingo“? Sure “Yonah”, it’s not even a real language, that “native lingo” compared to the “grand” language of Hebrew.

        Man, scratch an Orthodox Zionist, and you’ll find a second-rate public-school boy Imperialist every time.

      • Mooser
        December 1, 2015, 1:38 pm

        “When a Yonah loves a Hebrew”

        You hear Percy Sledge? Okay. Oddly enough, I hear George M. Cohan:

        “She’s a grand old tongue
        She’s a high-flying tongue…”

        or maybe:

        “They call it Hebrew, Hebrew,
        Grand as any tongue can be….”

      • YoniFalic
        December 1, 2015, 5:07 pm

        The word ḥamsīn comes from colloquial Palestinian Arabic. It provides evidence that the native Palestinians unlike the racist genocidal Eastern European invaders and their non-European ersatz native collaborators actually descend from Greco-Roman Judeans.

        Why use خمسين (=fifty) for the hot S. Western winds that Palestine typically experiences during the seven week period from the 2nd day of Passover to Shavuot or during the fifty day period from the first day of Passover to πεντηκοστή (= Shavuot = fiftieth [day] = חֲמִישִׁים = خمسين)?

        Because the native Palestinians whether Christian or Palestinian descend from Greco-Roman Judeans and maintained as loan translations into colloquial Arabic Judean Hebrew-Aramaic usages, which the Hebrew of the diaspora lost completely because the Judaic population of the Diaspora descended completely from convert populations, for whom Hebrew was purely a learned foreign language.

      • YoniFalic
        December 1, 2015, 5:45 pm

        I meant the following.

        Because the native Palestinians whether Christian or MUSLIM descend from Greco-Roman Judeans and maintained as loan translations into colloquial Arabic Judean Hebrew-Aramaic idiom, which the Hebrew of the diaspora lost completely because the Judaic population of the Diaspora descended completely from convert populations, for whom Hebrew was purely a learned foreign language.

        I should have noted that πεντηκοστή is Pentecost, which is the English name of Shavuot (=שבועות).

      • yonah fredman
        December 1, 2015, 8:43 pm

        Just slightly off topic here’s a quote extolling Hebrew literature if not the language:

        In the Jewish “Old Testament,” the book of divine justice, there are men, things, and speeches of such impressive style that the world of Greek and Indian literature has nothing to place beside them. If we stand with fear and reverence before these tremendous remnants of what human beings once were, we will in the process suffer melancholy thoughts about old Asia and its protruding peninsula of Europe, which, in contrast to Asia, wants to represent the “progress of man.”

        Naturally, whoever is, in himself, only a weak, tame domestic animal and who knows only the needs of domestic animals (like our educated people nowadays, including the Christians of “educated” Christianity), among these ruins such a man finds nothing astonishing or even anything to be sad about—-a taste for the Old Testament is a touchstone with respect to “great” and “small”—- perhaps he finds the New Testament, that book of grace, still preferable to his heart (in it there is a good deal of the really tender stifling smell of over-pious and small-souled people).

        To have glued together this New Testament, a sort of rococo of taste in all respects, with the Old Testament into one book, the book, the Bible – that is perhaps the greatest act of audacity and “sin against the spirit” which literary Europe has on its conscience.

        Who wrote this? A Zionist? No. Nietzsche.
        http://www.pekingduck.org/2005/12/quote-of-the-day-friedrich-nietzsche-on-the-bible/

      • RoHa
        December 1, 2015, 9:30 pm

        “Man, scratch an Orthodox Zionist, and you’ll find a second-rate public-school boy Imperialist every time.”

        First-rate Imperialists were, of course, required to learn the local languages. Military or Civil, if they wanted promotion, they had to pass language tests. Every time. And if they were Intelligence field operatives, they damned well had sound like a native.

        (Which reminds me a of a story I heard about the 2006 war.

        A bunch of inadequately trained Israeli commandos were on a mission, and stopped at a Hezbollah check-point.

        They said to the guard, “We iz you Kheezbollakh brotherens. Please let us throukh.”

        The guard said, “Jolly good! Right you are, chaps. ” And let them through.

        Then he phoned the next check point and said, “Right lot of Charlies coming through. Set up an ambush.”

        A few more Arabic lessons needed. )

      • Mooser
        December 1, 2015, 10:26 pm

        “First-rate Imperialists were, of course, required to learn the local languages. Military or Civil, if they wanted promotion, they had to pass language tests. Every time. And if they were Intelligence field operatives, they damned well had sound like a native.”

        Some went far beyond that learning a multiplicity of languages or the most obscure dialects, or even writing the first dictionaries in certain languages.
        I can barely handle American English. I don’t know how I would manage if I had to learn the real thing.

      • echinococcus
        December 2, 2015, 12:42 am

        Reb Fredman,

        How appropriate of you to quote that rambling, illogical obscurantist of a Nietsche on

        ancient

        Hebrew, blowing hot air about a superiority of that horrible rag of an Old Tes over even the Odyssey!
        Of course you guys belong together, being both followers and spreaders of Romantic German Nationalism.

      • Philemon
        December 27, 2015, 7:37 pm

        Yonah says: “In the Jewish ‘Old Testament,’ [Love the scare quotes!] the book of divine justice [?], there are men, things[!], and speeches of such impressive style that the world of Greek and Indian literature has nothing to place beside them…”

        Yonah, have you any idea of the truly vast scope of Sanskrit literature: the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, the Puranas, not to mention the Shastras, the Sutras and the Agamas … not even counting the Pali and Tamil literature? What are you even talking about even? Moreover, the Sanskrit literature isn’t heavily reliant on extant borrowings from old Babylonian and even Sumerian myths like the “Old Testament” is.

        Greek literature is more limited, granted. Just the Iliad, the Odyssey, the poets, the playwrights, the philosophers, the historians … And again, it was not borrowing from old Iraqi/Old Babylonian/Akkadian/Sumerian literature – which was great, by the way, but more limited.

        And YoniFalic is correct. Modern Israeli has the same relation to Yonah’s beloved biblical Hebrew (as spoken back in the day) as has modern Esperanto to the classical Latin of Virgil, or even Caesar. Both modern languages are seriously derivative.

      • Philemon
        December 27, 2015, 8:33 pm

        Maximus Decimus Meridius:

        “Her? Hebrew’s a lady?”

        As Mel Brooks and Harvey Korman would say: “Hmmmmmm!”

      • Mooser
        December 28, 2015, 11:23 am

        “Yonah”, the way you write English tells me all I need to know about Hebrew.

      • RoHa
        December 28, 2015, 5:32 pm

        “In the Jewish “Old Testament,” the book of divine justice, there are men, things, and speeches of such impressive style that the world of Greek and Indian literature has nothing to place beside them. ”

        But is it better than Shakespeare?

      • Mooser
        December 28, 2015, 5:36 pm

        “Hebrew’s a lady?”

        “Hey, who was that language I saw you with last night”?

      • Mooser
        December 28, 2015, 5:51 pm

        “In the Jewish “Old Testament,” the book of divine justice, there are men, things, and speeches of such impressive style that the world of Greek and Indian literature has nothing to place beside them.”

        He got that line straight from the “How to Pick Up Languages” book.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 28, 2015, 6:58 pm

        The words, except for adiv as courteous, are words that everyone who uses them realizes is the native lingo and not Hebrew. Hebrew is a porous language. just as Yiddish was a porous language, adapting to the surroundings and including words from various languages. The words okay and bye are part of Modern Hebrew. But everyone knows that they are not Hebrew. No one who says fadiha or fashla (unless they are ignorant) mistakes them for Modern Hebrew.

        jeez yonah, i’m not so sure about that. and it sounds like you have no prob incorporating english terms into modern hebrew, but not arab words. http://dglnotes.com/notes/arabic-hebrew.htm#Ben-Yehudah

        1. From Ben-Yehūdāh to the PaLMaḤ

        Elīʿezer Ben-Yehūdāh (1858–1922), the ‘father’ of MH, favoured a strong reliance upon Arabic in the revival of Hebrew. He argued that a fellow Semitic language—not European languages—should fill MH’s lacunæ, seeing Arabic as a source for missing roots and new words in Hebrew.1 He demanded that the Waʿad ha-Lāshōn ha-ʿIvrīt (Hebrew Language Committee) accept this argument:

        … the majority of the roots found in the Arabic vocabulary were once part of the Hebrew lexicon, and all of these roots are not foreign, nor are Arabic, but are ours, which we lost and have now found again [author’s emphasis].2

        Ben-Yehūdāh based his argument on the contention that Arabic has preserved the character of proto-Semitic—a controversial position that most linguists reject.3 Later scholars have criticised Ben-Yehūdāh for carrying his opinion forward too far and making mistakes. One example concerns the Hebrew word for ‘locomotive’ (qaṭṭār), which he borrowed from the Arabic qiṭār under the incorrect assumption that it derived from the ‘common’ root qṭṛ, which, in Hebrew, means ‘to smoke or to burn incense’. However, the Arabic word qiṭār stems, in fact, from the Arabic qaṭar (‘to draw or tow’) and is not related to the Hebrew qīṭōr (‘steam’). Nonetheless, this misunderstanding led to the coining of qaṭṭār as the MH word for ‘locomotive’.4

        One cannot attribute the influence of Arabic upon MH to Ben-Yehūdāh’s determination alone. Chomsky posited two further reasons: until 1948, Arabic was spoken by the majority of the Palestinian population (both Jewish and Arab); in addition, Arabic is closest to Hebrew amongst the contemporary Semitic languages.5 Hebrew, during the process of its revival, needed new words and patterns urgently and its neighbouring tongue, a rich and vibrant language, provided a ready mine of resources.6 With the largest lexicon of Semitic languages, Arabic provided a valuable resource for early Hebrew linguists.7 Furthermore, the phonetic similarity between Arabic and Hebrew may also have contributed to the ease of vocabulary transfer from one language to the other.8

        This is what is wrong with internet communication versus talking politics on the street corner (as in east 14th and union square). Besides the idiots who don’t know a word of Hebrew but still want to cut and paste and feed their own venom with their own idiocy.

        what a sour puss. you asked a question, people answer you, and you curse the internet for making responses so easy to find. .. and then accuse people of feeding “venom”.

        you could try googling your questions first btw, instead of asking others to do your homework. that way you could avoid the pitfalls of predictable and likely responses based on historical documentation. for more “Arabic’s impact on Israeli Hebrew” see:

        http://dglnotes.com/notes/arabic-hebrew.htm

      • RoHa
        December 28, 2015, 7:01 pm

        Just to be boring, Mooser, he actually got it from Section 52 of “Beyond Good and Evil”.

        https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/n/nietzsche/friedrich/n67b/complete.html

        He just didn’t do a good job with the quotation marks.

        Here it is in German:

        “Im jüdischen “alten Testament”, dem Buche von der göttlichen Gerechtigkeit, giebt es Menschen, Dinge und Reden in einem so grossen Stile, dass das griechische und indische Schriftenthum ihm nichts zur Seite zu stellen hat. Man steht mit Schrecken und Ehrfurcht vor diesen ungeheuren Überbleibseln dessen, was der Mensch einstmals war, und wird dabei über das alte Asien und sein vorgeschobenes Halbinselchen Europa, das durchaus gegen Asien den “Fortschritt des Menschen” bedeuten möchte, seine traurigen Gedanken haben. Freilich: wer selbst nur ein dünnes zahmes Hausthier ist und nur Hausthier-Bedürfnisse kennt (gleich unsren Gebildeten von heute, die Christen des “gebildeten” Christenthums hinzugenommen -), der hat unter jenen Ruinen weder sich zu verwundern, noch gar sich zu betrüben – der Geschmack am alten Testament ist ein Prüfstein in Hinsicht auf “Gross” und “Klein” -: vielleicht, dass er das neue Testament, das Buch von der Gnade, immer noch eher nach seinem Herzen findet (in ihm ist viel von dem rechten zärtlichen dumpfen Betbrüder- und Kleinen-Seelen-Geruch). Dieses neue Testament, eine Art Rokoko des Geschmacks in jedem Betrachte, mit dem alten Testament zu Einem Buche zusammengeleimt zu haben, als “Bibel”, als “das Buch an sich”: das ist vielleicht die grösste Verwegenheit und “Sünde wider den Geist”, welche das litterarische Europa auf dem Gewissen hat.”

        Could anyone doubt that final “hat”?

      • Mooser
        December 28, 2015, 7:46 pm

        Thanks, “RoHa”.

      • Philemon
        December 28, 2015, 9:49 pm

        Mooser: “Hey, who was that language I saw you with last night”?

        “That was no language! That was my calque!”

        Yeah, Roha, Nietzsche wasn’t known for his Biblical scholarship either, was he?

        You know, it’s kinda pathetic that Yonah thought quoting Neitzche -“Who wrote this? A Zionist? No. Nietzsche.” – was some kind of knock ’em out, drag ’em out, unanswerable argument in his favor.

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2015, 11:37 am

        “You know, it’s kinda pathetic that Yonah thought quoting Neitzche”

        Jeeves told Bertie: “You would not enjoy Nietzsche sir. He is fundamentally unsound”

        And that’s good enough for me. Jeeves knows.

    • Donald
      December 1, 2015, 10:56 am

      Not sure where this reply is going to go. Anyway, Yonah, for better or worse this blog advocates for Palestinian human rights and is, as you’ve noticed, not a great place for discussion of other aspects of Israeli or Jewish culture, or the Hebrew language or Biblical scholarship and when those subjects do come up, they aren’t usually going to be treated as valuable and worthwhile topics in their own right.

      • yonah fredman
        December 1, 2015, 11:07 am

        Donald- You and a handful of others are decent people in this comments’ section.

      • eljay
        December 1, 2015, 11:52 am

        || yonah fredman: Donald- You and a handful of others are decent people in this comments’ section. ||

        I agree. It’s a shame – but not surprising – that not a single one of those “decent people” is a Zio-supremacist.

      • Mooser
        December 1, 2015, 12:50 pm

        “Donald- You and a handful of others are decent people in this comments’ section.”

        Hey76, “Yonah”, that includes me too, right? I’m Jewish too, darn it, and we gotta stick together, don’t you think? What about “tribal unity”? And what price the brotherhood of brit priah?

      • tree
        December 1, 2015, 1:27 pm

        You on the other hand, yonah, were exceedingly rude to Kris. You asked a question. She looked it up and answered it politely. No thank you from you, just a wise-crack about “idiots” who “cut and paste”. And the same towards diasp0ra, who was civil in his response to you, and clearly has earned the right to complain about Modern Hebrew taking credit for words from Arabic while Israel does its utmost to deny his humanity and his right to exist.

        And then on top of that you admit that you already knew the answer to your own question. So why get all heated with an answer that you know is correct?

        If you want a civil conversation, why not start with your own part in it? If its too much to ask of yourself, then its too much to ask of anyone else, don’t you think?

      • YoniFalic
        December 1, 2015, 5:37 pm

        It is probably worthwhile to debunk the moronic beliefs and propaganda of the white racist genocidal Euro invaders and their international supporters.

        I agree with Bergsträßer and Wexler. Modern Israeli Hebrew has a borrowed vocabulary, but its grammar, morphology, semantics, and phonology is purely Indo-European. I find Wexler’s arguments persuasive that MIH is a Slavic dialect or relexified Yiddish, which Wexler considers to be a Slavic language.

        https://books.google.com/books?id=q_ebGe7FhVEC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=bergstr%C3%A4%C3%9Fer+hebrew+european+modern&source=bl&ots=JpIVOXGrZg&sig=KV9VDjtFa0Bv5Prdswrv4Se2Coc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRrKiazbPJAhXJ7R4KHd-xAZUQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=bergstr%C3%A4%C3%9Fer%20hebrew%20european%20modern&f=false

        As Wexler points out elsewhere, MIH has more in common with Esperanto than with spoken Hebrew of the Greco-Roman period.

        The article below discusses a link between Esperanto and MIH but misses the really important connection: both languages are dialects of Yiddish.

        http://impofthediverse.blogspot.com/2014/05/esperanto-and-hebrew-connection.html

      • echinococcus
        December 2, 2015, 12:56 am

        Falic,

        Interesting views in that blog page, but of course the description you end up with is linguistically speaking untenable. A constructed language that necessarily followed the inventors’ path of least resistance, i.e. High German (Yiddish) and Slavic, in phonology and structure is pidginized with them but that does not make it a dialect of either.

      • YoniFalic
        December 2, 2015, 5:49 am

        @echinococcus

        I was imprecise in describing Esperanto and Modern Israeli Hebrew as dialects of Yiddish.

        Wexler would argue that they are relexifications of Yiddish, to wit,

        1) in order to create Esperanto, lexical-sematic strings of Yiddish have been rather systematically replaced by pan-European Romance lexical-semantic strings while the fundamentally Slavic grammar of Yiddish has been maintained, and

        2) in order to create Modern Israeli Hebrew, lexical-sematic strings of Yiddish have been rather unsystematically replaced by Hebrew Aramaic lexical-semantic strings from various dialects of Hebrew and of Aramaic while the fundamentally Slavic grammar of Yiddish has been maintained.

        Technically, Esperanto and MIH can be considered dialects artificially created by relexification.

        Yiddish definitely is not a dialect or form of High German. My first Yiddish instructor, who agreed with Wexler, asserted that relexification made the semantic strings of Yiddish close enough to those of High German to guarantee tremendous misunderstandings between High German and Yiddish speakers.

        When I looked into the history of the development of Modern Israeli Hebrew, I found that one paper noted that High German speakers, who did not know Yiddish or had never studied at an advanced level in a traditional yeshiva, often had as much difficulty in learning Modern Israeli Hebrew, as Arabic speakers, who had no experience with modern European languages or had never studied at an advanced level in a traditional yeshiva.

        Study at advanced level in a traditional yeshiva helps the acquisition of Modern Israeli Hebrew because the vast majority of Rabbinic literature that a yeshiva student might encounter is written in a Rabbinic Hebrew dialect that is also relexified Yiddish.

        Relexification is process that can occur in pidgins, Creole languages, and non-Creole languages. Yiddish is a non-Creole language created by relexification of a West Slavic language (Wexler proposes Sorbian) to Germanic vocabulary in order to create first stage Yiddish and then relexification of the Kiev-Polessian Slavic dialect to first stage Yiddish vocabulary in order to create modern Yiddish.

      • echinococcus
        December 2, 2015, 9:22 am

        Falic,

        Again, a discussion that has no place here. Essentially you are talking about a second or even third stage of language contact and change, on a structure of High German –that doesn’t reclassify the creole (because that’s what it has become after about 1920.) Anyway, the discussion should be continued outside this group.

      • Mooser
        December 28, 2015, 5:54 pm

        “they aren’t usually going to be treated as valuable and worthwhile topics in their own right.”

        No, they are usually treated as valuable or worthwhile topics in their own right. But not when they are used as part of Zionist Hasbara

  3. eljay
    November 30, 2015, 12:13 pm

    … Our Scriptures say we Israeli Jews had wine back in King David’s day. …

    “You Israeli Jews” didn’t exist in King David’s day. Sounds like you had far too much wine today.

    … He snipes — it must be sour grapes! …

    Good thing he didn’t scoff, or he’d never hear the end of it from y.f.!

  4. bpm
    November 30, 2015, 1:52 pm

    This whole claim about the “Kingdom of Israel” has been debunked by leading Israeli archaeologist Israel Finkelstein. The “kingdom” at was at best a “small hill town, with a modest palace and royal shrine.” Moreover, much of the Jewish bible’s attempt at history was propaganda to boost this bogus claim of a “Kingdom.” Ms. Rudoren comes from a long line of fabulists and propagandists in the Times’ employ.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/24/1265119/-How-Archaeology-Disproves-Biblical-History

    • DaBakr
      November 30, 2015, 10:46 pm

      @bp
      right. the “whole claim” has been “debunked” by Finklestein-who while respected in his field has highly controversial THEORIES about the interpretation of the archeological digs. He has stated he is against-in principle-the attempts to fit the bible into the historical record even though he has admitted they many times this is exactly what has happened and it can’t be bottled back up. Finkelstein has many harsh critics who are every bit or more esteemed then he who disagree totally in his minimalistic approach to extracting historical links from archeological sites though out the land of israel. while it is unlikely that finklestein has any particular axe to grind-it is interesting who takes his theories more seriously then other equally brilliant scholars.

    • MHughes976
      December 1, 2015, 5:10 am

      I think that it was Jerusalem, not the K. of Israel, that was rather insignificant per Finkelstein. The Samaria-based kingdom was for a time quite influential, as Assyrian records show. There is considerable doubt about the ‘United Monarchy’ of David and Solomon, shared even by F’s more conservative critics. The phrase ‘Israeli Jews’ has very little authenticity either in Biblical or bible-sceptical terms.
      Finkelstein and Mazar ‘Quest for the Historical Israel” is quite good in my opinion, for what that’s worth. Of course it is possible to be more ‘sceptical’ – the word is slightly misleading – than Finkelstein, as Sand is.

  5. Kris
    November 30, 2015, 2:12 pm

    Everyone knows that the Jews invented figs, olives, chickpeas, wheat to make bulgur for tabouli, sheep, pomegranites, thyme, sage, … in fact, everything. Once something comes to their attention, suddenly they have invented it. Sort of like Christopher Columbus “discovering” America. Or international seed companies “inventing” the basmati rice that the people of India have grown for centuries.

    The Jews even invented a god who insists on genital mutilation and massacres, as documented so thoroughly in the Old Testament, but who also requires justice, mercy, and humility of his worshippers. That exercise in cognitive dissonance is a real achievement.

    So who can be surprised if they also invented grapes? And who cares?

  6. Rusty Pipes
    November 30, 2015, 2:13 pm

    Rudoren is also misleading in her references to the Cremisan winery, playing a minor role in the story as a Palestinian internet pest. By her use of dating, Cremisans appear to date their wine making back to 2008, later even than the wine project from Ariel:

    But Recanati is not the first to sell wine from these grapes. Cremisan, a small winery near Bethlehem where Palestinians partner with Italian monks, has been using hamdani, jandali and other local fruit since 2008.

    “As usual in Israel, they declare that falafel, tehina, tabouleh, hummus and now jandali grapes are an Israeli product,” Amer Kardosh, Cremisan’s export director, sniped in an email. “I would like to inform you that these types of grapes are totally Palestinian grapes grown on Palestinian vineyards.”

    The Cremison monastery been making wine since the 19th Century (founded on the ruins of a Byzantine monastery). Apparently, its wine production and distribution was upgraded by an Italian partnership a decade ago.

    Beyond the distraction of the dating of Cremisan wine production, the Cremisan vineyards are in the middle of the story of the occupation and the wall — an illustration of the reason for the EU’s requirement for labeling settlement products.

    • Philip Weiss
      November 30, 2015, 5:45 pm

      Exactly. That monastery’s lands are being cut in half by the ongoing wall construction. And this doesnt get a mention! Doesnt matter!

  7. amigo
    November 30, 2015, 2:26 pm

    When do they claim they have the recipe for feeding 5000 hungry mouths with five loaves and two fishes , washed down with water turned into wine.

    Was Jesus still a Jew when he invented those tricks or had he been expelled for the tribe by then.

    If you are seeking good material for a comedy show , look no further than “Da Bible” , or Da Noo Yoirk times.

  8. Ossinev
    November 30, 2015, 2:49 pm

    Meanwhile Nitay has been waxing lyrical at today`s climate summit:

    Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel, said that one element is essential to responding to the climate crisis – technology. He called for continued investments in sustainable technology and said that addressing the crisis requires a global solution.

    Quote “Israel is committed to those goals and will act accordingly and in deed and in word to fulfill them…

    We must learn to do more with less and Israel is a small country with big ideas. I believe it is not enough that we have those ideas or apply them only to our country, we are eager to share them with you”

    No cartoon or 45 second manic stare reported as yet and to be fair he didn`t claim that Palestinian tempers and incitement were contributing significantly to global warming but he did let the cat out of the bag viz read into the above.” I am a very small lying politician with great big lying ideas”. Particularly when it comes to abiding by International Laws and International Agreements

    You can truly trust my deeds and words – NOT.

    • amigo
      November 30, 2015, 3:26 pm

      “Quote “Israel is committed to those goals and will act accordingly and in deed and in word to fulfill them…” Ossinev.

      Shouldn,t that read !!.

      “Quote “Israel is committed to those goals and indeed , will act accordingly, in word to fulfill them…”

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      November 30, 2015, 5:43 pm

      “Israel is a small country”

      Oh, how I wish that someone at that conference had stuck their hand up and asked ‘Bibi’ to show them the recognised borders of this ‘small country’! What a hoot that would have been!

  9. JLewisDickerson
    November 30, 2015, 3:22 pm

    RE: “Israel Aims to Recreate Wine That Jesus and King David Drank” ~ Rudoren’s NYT article

    MY COMMENT: This is why I sometimes (only half-jokingly) refer to “The Dissociative State of Israel”!*
    For many of the New York Times’ readers, Israel is a “much-loved surrogate homeland and ethnic status symbol” (to borrow from Howard Sachar**)?

    * Dissociation (psychology) – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)
    ** Howard Sachar – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Sachar

  10. JLewisDickerson
    November 30, 2015, 4:11 pm

    RE: “But winemaking was outlawed after Muslims conquered the holy land in the seventh century.” ~ Rudoren’s NYT article

    • PHOTO: A funerary model of a bakery and brewery [in ancient Egypt], dating the 11th dynasty, circa 2009-1998 B.C. Painted and gessoed wood, originally from Thebes.
    SOURCE – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking

  11. MHughes976
    November 30, 2015, 4:49 pm

    Ancient world wine was a sort of gooey mess that you had to dilute. I absolutely defy Ariel Uni to produce anything sufficiently unpalatable.

  12. JWalters
    November 30, 2015, 5:37 pm

    The brazen lying by the New York Times, including lying by omission, definitely puts their owners and editors in the category of traitors to America. They are knowingly fronting for criminal corporate war profiteers, sowing chaos and death with their glaring lies. They deserve to be on the dock in a new round of Nuremberg trials.

    Perhaps they imagine themselves heroes in Israel’s thousand year reich. Or least are well compensated today.

  13. talknic
    November 30, 2015, 6:15 pm

    Nonsense seems to be the default position for people who, were it not for Zionist designs on Palestine, might be normal.

    “Our Scriptures say we Israeli Jews had wine back in King David’s day”

    A) ‘we Israeli Jews’ didn’t exist in King David’s day B) So what? So did many others in all likelihood preceding KD

    “We will re-breed those grapes by digging up ancient seeds.

    Therefore we have a right to the land, dating back thousands of years”

    States are defined by International Law as being an entities with defined borders, not ancient seeds. The Israeli Government proclaimed its borders May 15th 1948 in the plea for International recognition

  14. JLewisDickerson
    November 30, 2015, 10:02 pm

    RE: “All our scriptures are full with wine and with grapes — before the French were even thinking about making wine, we were exporting wine,” he said. “We have a very ancient identity, and for me, reconstructing this identity is very important. For me, it’s a matter of national pride.” ~ Mr. Drori

    REGARDING THE “SCRIPTURES”, SEE: “Ben Carson, Joseph in Egypt, and the Attack on Rational Thought” | by Gary Leupp | Counterpunch.org | November 27, 2015

    [EXCERPTS]
    • Joseph in Egypt: A Myth

    I confess: I don’t believe in the biblical story of Joseph. Quite aside from the fanciful notion that Joseph built the pyramids for grain storage (as alleged by Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson), I don’t believe in the Bible character himself–any more than I believe in Prometheus, Rama, or the Yellow Emperor of Chinese mythology.

    You perhaps recall the story. But I should not assume that, of course. . .

    So to review the tale: according to the Book of Genesis, Joseph was a great-grandson of Abraham, who had been called by God out of the Land of Ur on the Euphrates (in what is now southern Iraq ) to Hebron on the West Bank of the Jordan River where his tomb is supposedly located.

    He is of course the patriarch revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims alike as in some way their religious ancestor, who had walked and talked with God, and to whose descendants, according to the Bible, God had promised the Holy Land forever. (Many people, including perhaps most Christians, assume that today’s Jews are Abraham’s biological descendents.)

    Abraham died, the Bible tells us, at age 175, leaving the birthright to the land to his son Isaac. Isaac, who died at age 180, was succeeded by his son Jacob (also known as Israel) who had 12 sons, among them this Joseph. Jacob is supposed to have passed away at age 147.

    (I mention these numbers simply to underline the implausibility of the whole account. Archeologists studying ancient Egyptian skeletons have found that the life expectancy in the region around the time these biblical figures are supposed to have lived was 33 years for men, 29 for women. Believers who convince themselves that the extraordinary life-spans attributed to early biblical figures–Adam is supposed to have died at age 930, Methuselah at 969, Noah at 950–simply show that “people lived longer way back then” are just not aware of, or not interested in, the objective study of history or prehistory. They live in a fantasy world.)

    Joseph, the eleventh son, is favored by Jacob above his siblings and given the famous “coat of many colors” (Genesis 37:3). He has dreams in which his older brothers all bow down to him (and he rather foolishly relates these dreams to his brothers). Jealous, they set out to murder him. But they reconsider at the last minute and instead sell him to a caravan of Ishmaelite slavers bound for Egypt.

    (These slavers according to the Bible were descendents of Ishmael, another son of Abraham, by the Egyptian slave girl Hagar, thus a half-brother of their grandfather Isaac. Many view as the “father” of the Arabs in the same way as Isaac is the ancestor of the Jews. This is pure folklore, but does convey the truth that both Jews and Arabs are Semitic peoples, along with the ancient Akkadians, Babylonians, Phoenicians, Moabites, Edomites, Nabateans, etc.

    There are of course European Jews with more or less Semitic DNA. And there are many people regarded as “Arabs” for linguistic and cultural reasons but probably having little Semitic blood; most Moroccans for example have a mix of Arab, Berber and Andalusia blood. But surely the Judaeans of Roman times were close cousins of the Semites of the Arabian Peninsula at the time.)

    In Egypt, Joseph is purchased by the captain of the pharaoh’s guard, who regards him with favor and makes him head of his household staff. The captain’s wife likes him too–too much–and tries to seduce him. Spurned, she accuses Joseph of sexual assault and he is sent to prison.

    But God remains with Joseph. In prison he meets two high-ranking officials who have displeased the pharaoh. Joseph is able to use his gift of dream interpretation to predict the future of both. Word of his gift reaches the pharaoh, the world’s most powerful man, who has been having troubling dreams that his occultists can’t explain. Brought into his presence, Joseph explains that the pharaoh’s dreams foretell seven years of plenty, followed by seven of famine.

    Asked what to do, Joseph advocates the obvious commonsense solution: the pharaoh should “lay up grain” during the fat years… for food in the cities” (Genesis 41:35). The pharaoh, concluding that there was “no one as discerning and wise” as this imprisoned slave from Canaan, then frees Joseph and places him in charge of the whole country (Genesis 41:40).

    (As in the case with most myths, there is some basis of truth in this one. The Nile River Valley was the grain basket of the ancient Mediterranean world. Its fertile soil, highly predictable growing season, abundance of farm animals for labor and dung, and suitability for the “basin irrigation” system dating back to around 3000 BCE, allowed for the cultivation of wheat and barley on a huge scale, and the production of bread and beer, plus the raising of figs, grapes and other familiar components of the Mediterranean diet. Wheat from here fed Rome by the time of Julius Caesar, when Egyptians were known as the world’s most skilled agriculturalists.

    And we know that the ancient Egyptians systematically stored grain on a wide scale. In 2008 a University of Chicago archeological team at the excavation site of Tell Edfu in southern Egypt found “grain bins” consisting of “at least seven round, mud-brick silos” dating to the 18th century BCE, when the town was a major administrative center. The bins, it’s been suggested, served both as repositories of grain for townsmen’s food and as banking facilities in a pre-monetary society where grain served as a universal equivalent. So it would not be strange for a Hebrew fiction-writer of the eighth or ninth century BCE to associate the Egypt of Joseph’s time with agricultural bounty and efficient grain storage and to integrate these into a lively tale.)

    In the story Joseph–having become governor, subject only to Pharaoh himself–personally oversees relief efforts and grain sales in a famine year. One day he’s moved to see, among those seeking to buy grain, his ten older brothers who had arrived from Canaan. Concealing his identity, he questions them, jails them, but then sends them home with grain as well as a refund of their payment, demanding that they return with their youngest brother Benjamin (whom Joseph longs to see).

    When they eventually do return with Benjamin, Joseph reveals himself to them as their brother, and forgives them for selling him into slavery. (It had all, after all, been God’s plan to save the House of Israel!) Jacob himself is brought to Egypt where he dies, like all his sons. His death, at age 147, so upsets the Egyptian people for some reason that they grieve for 70 days. Joseph returns his father’s corpse to Canaan (Genesis 50:7-14). Thereafter Jacob’s progeny becomes a great nation within Egypt, “more numerous and powerful” than the Egyptians themselves (Exodus 1:9).

    Joseph himself dies in Egypt at age 110 after living over nine decades in the country.

    It’s a grand tale featuring divine favor, vicious sibling jealousy, enslavement, sexual temptation, betrayal, imprisonment, prophetic dreams and the ability to interpret them, a rags-to-riches story, a long-delayed reunion between father and son, and the power of forgiveness producing a happy ending. It’s a fit theme for Thomas Mann’s great novel, Joseph and His Brothers (1943), the Tim Rice-Andrew Lloyd Weber rock opera Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat (1969), or the made-for-TV movie Joseph in Egypt (1995).

    But no, I don’t believe this story. None of it. It’s a myth. Not a legend, mind you, which would suggest the story has some shred of historical evidence behind it. (Like the legend of Roland, or Pocahontas, or William Tell, which have some roots in reality.) No, a myth, with no evidence behind it at all.

    The story is set in what by biblical chronology would be about 1600 years before the lifetime of Jesus. That’s actually over 500 years before the Hebrew script even existed, before the earliest known examples of proto-Hebrew writing. It’s about 1000 years before the likely composition of the biblical Book of Genesis itself.

    Of course the devout believer can say, “It was all passed down by oral tradition” even before the emergence of a literate community. They can argue that in any case the Holy Scriptures were composed under “divine inspiration” and so must accurately depict historical events. Faith proves it’s all true. (End of conversation.)

    But I would simply repeat–even, maybe especially to the close-minded faith-based person–that the Joseph story is a work of fiction, produced by normal humans with normal life spans and placed by them in the mouth of an imagined divine author.

    It is fine of course for people to read and appreciate such stories, which are in fact part and parcel of U.S. historic culture. The whole narrative about the Israelites in bondage in Egypt, led out by the heroic Moses to the Promised Land of Canaan, has particularly inspired the African-American church since the period of slavery. But if seekers to high office in the 21st century indicate that they actually believe this stuff as real history, they reveal a lack of critical reasoning ability. . .

    . . . A kingdom of Israel seems likely to have emerged as a state in the ninth century, followed by Judah by the eighth century BCE. They probably emerged out of the interaction of numerous Semitic tribes who had come to settle in Palestine over centuries. When the Bible refers to the Twelve Tribes of Israel—meaning the tribes descending from all twelve of Jacob’s sons (who in the story arrived in Canaan after the Exodus)—it perhaps acknowledges implicitly that a people who, by the Persian and Hellenistic periods, had developed a collective identity as Judeans were in fact of diverse origins. These origins might have ranged from Abraham’s “Land of Ur” to the Nile Delta or at least the Sinai Peninsula.

    The Israeli archeologist Ze’ev Herzog of Tel Aviv University has written that the Biblical patriarchs were fictional and that neither the Exodus from Egypt nor the conquests of Joshua ever occurred. Rabbi David Wolpe of Sinai Temple in Los Angeles told his congregation in 2001, “The truth is that virtually every modern archeologist who has researched the story of the Exodus, with very few exceptions, agrees that the way that the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all.” . . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/27/ben-carson-joseph-in-egypt-and-the-attack-on-rational-thought/

    • MHughes976
      December 1, 2015, 4:34 am

      Wine was invented by Noah, so it is a major, though ambivalent, gift to humanity from Iraq. Noah sadly got falling-down drunk and his clothes fell off. The sequence of events led to a display of considerateness and tact by Shem, the ancestor of the Jews, and to a curse on Canaan, Noah’s grandson, the ancestor of certain others. He had in fact not done anything wrong, but even if you have not done anything wrong history sometimes works against you.

      • Mooser
        December 2, 2015, 3:58 pm

        “Wine was invented by Noah,”

        Oh Noah invented grape booze
        Which caused him his balance to lose,
        But his son, Shem, stayed upright,
        And fathered the Semites.
        And they ended up as the Jews!

        Wadoo! Wadoo! Zim bam boddle-oo! Zim bam boddle-oo! Hoodle ah da waah da!Hoodle ah da waah da!Scatty way!Scatty wah-aaah!

        Old Shem was the Dad of our race
        Old Shem was the Dad of our race
        But where’d Shem find women,
        Unless they’d been swimmin’,
        While Noah’s flood cleaned out the place?”

        I’m preachin’ this sermon to show, it ain’t necessarily, ain’t necessarily, ain’t necessarily so!

      • RoHa
        December 2, 2015, 8:35 pm

        So Carl Michael Bellman tells us.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGzDRNgi20o

        Gubben Noak, gubben Noak
        var en heders man.
        När han gick ur arken
        planterade han på marken
        mycket vin, ja mycket vin, ja
        detta gjorde han.

        Noak rodde, Noak rodde
        ur sin gamla ark,
        köpte sig buteljer,
        sådanna man säljer,
        för att dricka, för att dricka
        på vår nya park.

        Han väl visste, han väl visste
        att en mänska var
        torstig av naturen
        som de andra djuren,
        därför han ock, därför han ock
        vin planterat har.

        Gumman Noak, gumman Noak
        var en heders fru.
        Hon gav man sin dricka;
        fick jag sådan flicka,
        gifte jag mig, gifte jag mig
        just på stunden nu.

        Aldrig sad` hon, aldrig sad` hon:
        Kära far nå nå,
        sätt ifrån dig kruset.
        Nej, det ena ruset
        på det andra, på det andra
        lät hon gubben få.

        Gubben Noak, gubben Noak
        brukte eget hår,
        pipskägg, hakan trinder,
        rosenröda kinder,
        drack i botten, drack i botten.
        Hurra och gutår!

        Då var lustig, då var lustig
        på vår gröna jord;
        man fick väl till bästa,
        ingen torstig nästa
        satt och blängde, satt och blängde
        vid ett dukat bord.

        Inga skålar, inga skålar
        gjorde då besvär,
        då var ej den läran:
        jag skall ha den äran.
        Nej i botten, nej i botten
        drack man ur så här.

      • RoHa
        December 2, 2015, 10:33 pm

        Incidentally, the video is a children’s version, but nicely sung.

        If you want to hear Bellman’s original version, it’s here.

  15. Qualtrough
    December 1, 2015, 1:13 am

    @yonah fredman — Where are your manners? You asked for 7 Hebrew words originating from Arabic and got hundreds. A simple ‘thank you’ would be nice.

    • Mooser
      December 1, 2015, 12:23 pm

      “@yonah fredman — Where are your manners?”

      ROTFLMSJAO!!!! “Yonah” has a very practical sense of etiquette. Nobody has taken a swing at him here, so he must be well within bounds.

  16. bryan
    December 1, 2015, 4:06 am

    Not content with appropriating the cherry tomato and the land of Palestine we now have another Israeli invention – the lie that Jews played a major role in the development of viticulture. (“All our scriptures are full with wine and with grapes — before the French were even thinking about making wine, we were exporting wine,”)

    According to Wikipedia “The earliest archaeological evidence of wine production yet found has been at sites in Georgia (c. 6000 BC), Iran (c. 5000 BC), Greece (c. 4500 BC) and Armenia (c. 4100 BC)” but the cultivation and fermentation of grapes may well be much older: “Grape pips have been found throughout France, pre-dating Greek and Roman cultural influences, with some examples found near Lake Geneva being over 12,000 years old”. The Levant did play a major role in the Mediterranean wine trade, but this was long before the cult of Yahweh developed: “Domesticated grapes were abundant in the Near East from the beginning of the early Bronze Age, starting in 3200 BC. There is also increasingly abundant evidence for winemaking in Sumer and Egypt in the 3rd millennium BC… A thriving royal winemaking industry was established in the Nile Delta following the introduction of grape cultivation from the Levant to Egypt c. 3000 BC. The industry was most likely the result of trade between Egypt and Canaan during the early Bronze Age, commencing from at least the 27th-century BC Third Dynasty, the beginning of the Old Kingdom period. Winemaking scenes on tomb walls, and the offering lists that accompanied them, included wine that was definitely produced in the delta vinyards.”

    Nor is it true that “winemaking was outlawed after Muslims conquered the holy land in the seventh century.” Again Wikipedia summarises: “The Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries brought many territories under Muslim control. Alcoholic drinks were prohibited by law, but the production of alcohol, wine in particular, seems to have thrived. Wine was a subject for many poets, even under Islamic rule, and many khalifas used to drink alcoholic beverages during their social and private meetings. Egyptian Jews leased vineyards from the Fatimid and Mamluk governments, produced wine for sacramental and medicinal use, and traded wine throughout the Eastern Mediterranean. Christian monasteries in the Levant and Iraq often cultivated grapevines; they then distributed their vintages in taverns located on monastery grounds.”

    As ever, one has to ask, if Zionism is such a wonderful and virtuous ideology, why does it continually take such liberties with the truth? Regular visitors to this site will be familiar with the blatant dishonesty of hasbara, but why does the NYT treat its readers with such utter contempt by recycling this nonsense?

    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wine and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_French_wine

  17. Ossinev
    December 1, 2015, 6:50 am

    Here in the UK we are quite proud of our famous native tipples. England and Wales have their “real ales” . Scotland of course has it`s renowned whisky and in neighbouring Ireland there is the world famous Guinness. All four countries are crap at producing cherry tomatoes but their populations would get mighty agitated if the Zionists claimed “Israeli” biblical origins for any of these beverages.

    Absolutely no issues however with Zionists claiming to have invented a liquid form of bullshit.They certainly are drinking a lot of it to be able to spew out so much of it.

  18. Kay24
    December 1, 2015, 8:03 am

    Any apologist bragging about Israel’s “brilliant” achievements is nauseating. They live in total denial as to how they got there. IT IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO LIVED AND THRIVED THERE, BEFORE THE ISRAELIS WERE DUMPED THERE, AND STOLE EVERYTHING FROM THEM.

    “After the Six Day War (1967), Israel’s initial occupation of the West Bank led to an encouragement of agriculture. Moshe Dayan actively encouraged its expansion, and as a result agricultural productivity increased on an annual basis by 16%. Permission was extended to expand on land that had hitherto been neglected. A change in policy occurred in 1976, and by 1979, when the new Likud government was in power, incentives for Palestinian agriculture stopped. The government considered local agriculture a hindrance to its aim of annexing uncultivated land. As a result, water quotas for Paleestinian farmers were incrementally reduced, forcing cultivators to leave their lands and seek jobs as day labourers in Israel. The end effect of this decision was that by 1985, the land under Palestinian cultivation in the West Bank decreased by 40%. Extensive pine forests to create ‘green areas’ were also created by Israel, pines being selected because their acidic needles render the land infertile, destroying undergrowth, and making the land unusable for Palestinian shepherd pastoralists.[4]”

    Rudoren is, like other zionists, totally delusional.

    • a4tech
      December 1, 2015, 8:46 am

      Off course Kay24, how perceptive of you to figure out Zionist achievements were built through theft of indigenous land and resources. It is as if they learnt everything from the white colonialists of the USA, don’t you agree?

      • Kay24
        December 1, 2015, 9:55 am

        Well, the “white colonists” have certainly footed that expensive bill (still do) to make the ingrates

        so arrogant about their “achievements”, I am sure you agree! Without the aid and support from

        the “white colonists” the zionists will be yet another suffering ME nation, but hey who knows

        they might have learnt to be a little humble and honest, if possible at all. But then again, stealing

        lands from those they occupy is shameless, and that they seem to know nothing about.

      • a4tech
        December 1, 2015, 10:34 am

        What sort of lunatic rambling is this? White people own almost ALL of the productive agricultural land on North America and technological means of production which they utilize to build a monopoly of economical wealth not just in USA but globally. The poorest white person is still well likely to be in the top 5% of global income levels. White people or rather white interests also dominate the politics and white men hold most of the military power in the USA. In addition, white people also are the most culturally dominant group in the country, with their Christianity, English language and many other, finer cultural attributes.

        All of that while being only 70% of the current nations population, and after invading and wiping out 95% of the indigenous people that had lived on the land for milennia. How the heck are they, in any shape or form, footing any sort of bill? Their entire existance is a manifestation of unearned privilege. Seriously Kay24, check yourself.

      • Mooser
        December 2, 2015, 4:13 pm

        “White people own almost ALL of the productive agricultural land on North America and technological means of production which they utilize to build a monopoly of economical wealth not just in USA but globally.”

        And yet these people here don’t even begrudge the Zionists a few measly acres of ground to reverse the trend, a little State which is as a beacon to the oppressed huddled masses yearning to breath free!
        A Jewish State which shows them: ‘yes, there is hope for you, we do get a little of our own back from the “white people”!’
        Yes, the existence of Israel gives oppressed people everywhere the hope that the triumph over “white interests” is not out of reach. If the Israelis can destroy the Palestinians, the “white man” can be defeated!
        Do I have it right, now “a4tech”?

      • Kay24
        December 3, 2015, 8:16 am

        @a4tech: Are you implying Israel is big and strong enough to bully the US of its lunch money? How ridiculous.

        This is ridiculous: The spongers end THOUSANDS OF THEIR LOBBYISTS from AIPAC to BEG for aid. They seem to forget their arrogance when they come and beg for more aid, even if it means no lunch money for the American people. Still, it does not stop their supporters from pretending that US tax payers are not affected by this over generous charity to a parasitic nation.

        “Douglas Bloomfield at The Jewish Week informs us that 13,000 lobbyists from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) will descend upon Capitol Hill this weekend for their annual conference to order members of Congress not to cut $3 billion-plus in aid to Israel, even as automatic budget cuts are set to take place in a matter of days.

        At a time when sequestration is about to take a big bite out of the Pentagon budget, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) will be sending thousands of its citizen lobbyists to Capitol Hill next week to make sure Israel is exempted from any spending cuts.

        This could prove a very risky strategy at a time when millions of Americans will be feeling the bite of the sequestration debacle, from the defense budget to the school lunch program.

        But not aid to Israel, which will be untouched if AIPAC gets its way.”

      • Kay24
        December 3, 2015, 9:46 am

        May I add AIPAC seems to always get their way. That huge charity check AND the weapons seem to flow endlessly, unlike some lunch programs Americans have to do without.

    • Kay24
      December 1, 2015, 2:05 pm

      Lame try taking my initial comment and talking about “white colonists”, you are the one who does the rambling here, in fact you deflect from facts that point out, yet again, the arrogance of Israelis, and the delusion of it’s supporters. You can make all the damn personal remarks you need to try to hijack the subject here, but that does not change the facts.

      One more point. We, the citizens of the US, are paying heavily for the creature comforts and weapons that Israelis enjoy, and the billions in aid is the reference to footing that bill. Stop trying to compare Israel’s 60 year old occupation, illegal settlements, and other crime, that goes on today, to what happens centuries ago. The “Muslim” hasbara is running short of talking points. Pathetic.

      • a4tech
        December 2, 2015, 10:08 am

        US aid packages are not channelled exclusively to Israel and they definitely come with strings attached to benefit the US government. How much benefits trickle down to the tax paying citizen is subject to debate, but it is regardless a domestic issue having little to do with the nations receiving the aid.

        If you are not happy with the current arrangements, there are almost unlimited avenues for you to fix that I.e. vote in better representatives, organize grassroot movements to change policies, build coalitions etc. Find others having the same problems and start doing something about it.

        You say you are burdened by the aid, but didn’t clarify how does this actually happen? Are your wages being garnished to fund the aid program or anything in that nature? I have heard people complaining about rising wage gap between CEOs and workers, government patronage of Wall St bankers, shipping of low skilled jobs overseas and shutting down of domestic manufacturing bases, private corporations bribing politicians and interfering with the law making process, increasing militarization of the police, increasing government surveillance, increasing police presence in schools, increasing number of homeless people, the ever decreasing social safety net especially for veterans, and many more valid reasons they find to be burdening physically and mentally as the average, hard-working Americans. However, I have rarely heard or read how it is the $3 billion or so aid money, that goes back to US arms firms anyways, that is burdening the average citizen so much so that it nurtures a deep hatred in them of the nation receiving aid.

        Lastly, you framed your point as if to represent the views shared by the majority of Americans. Could you share any source, for example a nation wide survey that you used to come up with your argument?

      • talknic
        December 2, 2015, 11:02 am

        @ a4tech “US aid packages are not channelled exclusively to Israel”

        Israel gets the aid

        ” You say you are burdened by the aid, but didn’t clarify how does this actually happen? Are your wages being garnished to fund the aid program or anything in that nature?”

        Taxes

      • Kay24
        December 2, 2015, 4:26 pm

        Thank you Talkic. It seems the “Muslim” hasbara has a lot to learn about American taxes. :))

        I guess when your people are recipients of American generosity, you don’t care how it gets to Israeli pockets.

      • talknic
        December 2, 2015, 8:45 pm

        @ a4tech “US aid packages are not channelled exclusively to Israel and they definitely come with strings attached to benefit the US government. How much benefits trickle down to the tax paying citizen is subject to debate, but it is regardless a domestic issue having little to do with the nations receiving the aid”

        Rather self contradicting statements. How can it be a domestic issue having little to do with the nations receiving aid, when the strings attached are ” to benefit the US government”? The US govt represents US tax payers.

      • a4tech
        December 2, 2015, 9:34 pm

        If the government spending at most $20 of your hard earned money, each year ends up “burdening” you, then I suppose you have much bigger problems than having to give out undue aid to foreign nations. Perhaps set up a donation webpage, explaining your dire situation to the world population?

        How can it be a domestic issue having little to do with the nations receiving aid, when the strings attached are ” to benefit the US government”? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comments

        The matter of foreign policy and giving of aid is a domestic issue for all American citizens to democratically form their opinions on and vote on the policies that best represents their interests. You can’t blame or criticise foreign nations for taking the money that your government willingly gives to them, unless there is a element of coercion or violence involved. Are you implying Israel is big and strong enough to bully the US of its lunch money? How ridiculous.

      • talknic
        December 3, 2015, 12:44 am

        @ a4tech demonstrates how to dig a deeper hole

        “If the government spending at most $20 of your hard earned money, each year ends up “burdening” you”

        It’s a collective burden on all US tax payers, not only in monetary terms. Much of the ME sees the US / Israeli alliance for what it is “with strings attached to benefit the US”

        “The matter of foreign policy and giving of aid is a domestic issue for all American citizens to democratically form their opinions on and vote on the policies that best represents their interests. You can’t blame or criticise foreign nations for taking the money that your government willingly gives to them, unless there is a element of coercion or violence involved”

        YOU gave the element of coercion. “… they definitely come with strings attached to benefit the US government” See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comment-157847

        “Are you implying Israel is big and strong enough to bully the US of its lunch money? “

        No.

        “How ridiculous”

        Indeed, why did you offer it?

        Having said as much, one really needs to look closely at the most powerful ‘other state’ lobbyists in the US working tirelessly to maintain the US UNSC veto vote against Chapt VII resolutions for Israel’s ignoring Chapt VI resolutions AND to maintain and increase military aid to further the Zionist colonization project. Colonization – the thing YOU claimed not to like.

      • a4tech
        December 3, 2015, 3:18 am

        It’s a collective burden on all US tax payers, not only in monetary terms. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comments

        That is an excellent point that can be used to rally public support to alter the current foreign aid arrangements so that it benefit the tax payers. I still don’t see why blame Israel for receiving the aid money?

        Obviously I am far from the smartest among the distinguished crowd of MW readers, but you second point also escapes me. If anything, it is the US government that hold all the leverage in any foreign aid agreement, and as such the ability to coerce foreign nations into unfavorable (for that nation) agreements are with the US. How is Israel at fault here?

      • Annie Robbins
        December 3, 2015, 6:39 am

        i agree w/you that you are far from the smartest among the distinguished crowd of MW readers.

        the US government that hold all the leverage in any foreign aid agreement… the ability to coerce foreign nations into unfavorable .. agreements are with the US. How is Israel at fault here?

        when you say “the ability to coerce foreign nations into unfavorable .. agreements are with the US” are you implying the lobby (you know which one right?) has no ability to coerce foreign nations, like the US wrt israel, into unfavorable agreements? if that is the case why do they write legislation and promote settler expansion? or is it your position that all lobby coercion is favorable? or what is it you’re saying?

      • Annie Robbins
        December 3, 2015, 6:45 am

        I still don’t see why blame Israel for receiving the aid money? … How is Israel at fault here?

        deer in the headlights photo op

      • a4tech
        December 3, 2015, 7:07 am

        This is ridiculous and a you are blatantly pushing the antisemitic trope of Jews controlling America. AIPAC is one of hundreds of lobbies influencing US politics, and if they are overrepresented in their lobbying successes, it is only because of the capitalistic nature of US political institutions where monetary strength strongly correlate with political leverage. This applies for any group with with strong financial backings (see also the Armenian American lobby), not just AIPAC although there are also additional factors (religion, skin colour, foreign interests) that may privilege them over other lobbies. Most importantly, AIPAC are just as American as you are and they have the right to assert their political will onto the nation, just like every other American.

        At the end of the day, it is the sole responsibility of the elected official to perform his or her duties in the manner seen as best for his or her constituency, principles, and off course the nation itself. Why are you shamelessly trying to scapegoat a lobby that is by design self-serving just like any other lobby for the ills of the nation?

      • talknic
        December 3, 2015, 7:55 am

        @ a4tech “…. I still don’t see why blame Israel for receiving the aid money?”

        I haven’t. “Israel gets the aid” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comment-157847

        What Israel does with it can’t be attributed to any one BUT Israel. The majority of Israel’s military budget is likely spent on maintaining the occupation and protecting the illegal settlements.

        The invasions of Gaza helps clear the arsenal of old stock and enables in field testing of new inventive ways of slaughtering and destroying humans and their habitat

        … you second point also escapes me.”

        I understand that kind of need in some. A substitute for when they aren’t in a relationship perhaps, if they’ve ever actually had one https://www.google.com.au/search?q=%22encouraging+and+provoking+argument%22 Here I call it digging a deeper hole

        ” If anything, it is the US government that hold all the leverage …”

        Yes. That’s why I cited you “they definitely come with strings attached to benefit the US government” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/laughable-israeli-propaganda#comment-157847

        “.. into unfavorable (for that nation) agreements …”

        Tell me what aspect of free military aid and the US veto vote in the UNSC is unfavorable for Israel, aside from allowing the frog to stay in the pot?

      • a4tech
        December 3, 2015, 8:41 am

        Talknic, so I don’t really see the disagreement here. It appears that you hold the same view as mine which is the terrorist government of the USA is the root cause for the ongoing Middle Eastern conflicts specifically, and global conflicts generally. Israel is merely a client state to do the empires bidding, just like Indonesia, Australia, UK, Turkey and many others.

      • eljay
        December 3, 2015, 8:51 am

        || a4tech: This is ridiculous and a you are blatantly pushing the antisemitic trope of Jews controlling America. … ||

        Nothing infuriates a “Muslim” more than the suggestion that Israel and/or Zio-supremacists have excessive influence on American policy-making.

        And when a “Muslim” is infuriated by that suggestion, the first thing he does is intentionally replace the words “Israel” and/or “Zio-supremacists” with “Jews”.

        Funny stuff… :-)

      • Mooser
        December 3, 2015, 11:21 am

        “although there are also additional factors (religion, skin colour, foreign interests) that may privilege them over other lobbies.”

        That’s right! Those are the ‘privilege factors’ (“religion, skin colour, foreign interests”) for lobbies enshrined in the US Constitution! And many, many Federal laws, too!

        Hey if you got it (“religion, skin colour, foreign interests”) why not flaunt it, huh?

        So, let’s see, Tuesday and Wednesday, we couldn’t even look at Israel until the entire world was set right, and by Thursday, AIPAC has “factors (religion, skin colour, foreign interests) that may privilege them over other lobbies.” and hey, that’s cool!

      • Kay24
        December 3, 2015, 12:40 pm

        ‘Israel is merely a client state to do the empires bidding, just like Indonesia, Australia, UK, Turkey and many others.’

        Oh the naivety. Israel is not like Indonesia and the others, it gets the MOST aid, and weapons.
        It also get protected like a little baby at the UN whenever there are resolutions condemning it’s war crimes, and Sugar Daddy vetoes those resolution. Special treatment demanded by those pesky lobbyists.

  19. just
    December 1, 2015, 8:03 am

    O/T

    “Eric Abetz attacks ABC reporter Sophie McNeill over Middle East reporting

    Mark Scott defends the Walkley award-winning correspondent, saying she is doing a ‘strong job’ and deserves to be judged on her work

    ABC correspondent Sophie McNeill was strongly defended by managing director Mark Scott on Monday night after coming under attack at a parliamentary committee for her reporting from the Middle East.

    Liberal senator Eric Abetz asked Scott why McNeill was appointed to the Middle East post when she had stated that she admired journalists John Pilger and Robert Fisk, who held strong anti-Israeli views and pro-Palestinian views.

    In a late-night Senate estimates committee hearing, Scott said McNeill was doing a “strong job” covering Syria, Gaza, Jerusalem and Syrian refugees in one of the most dangerous posts in the world where reporters needed “significant courage”.

    Abetz said: “I am just wondering what research was done into Ms McNeill’s attitude to matters [in the] Middle East before her appointment and whether it is appropriate to allow somebody in that position to allow their emotions to get into their reporting.”

    Scott said McNeill, who took up the post in February, was an accomplished journalist with an extensive history of reportage from the region and was appointed on merit.

    “I wasn’t involved but she was subjected to a rigorous appointment selection process and they did discuss at length her experience as a reporter in the Middle East,” Scott said.

    “She has lived in Jerusalem and Beirut, filed from Lebanon, Afghanistan, Gaza, Pakistan and Kurdistan for SBS.”

    Abetz then criticised McNeill’s description of an alleged young female Palestinian attacker in a story on 7.30 in October in which the reporter said: “Five days ago here at this checkpoint, Israeli soldiers say that this friendly, gifted student tried to stab them, so they shot her dead.”

    Scott said: “There has been a barrage of complaints from some sectors about Ms McNeill. She is a very talented young journalist; she is a journalist that has matured significantly in her career. We thought she was ready for this posting and I think she deserves to be judged on her work.”

    Scott said McNeill had reported both sides of the story and had filed from Jerusalem about the terror and the fear installed in civilians by Palestinian attacks and that she had attempted to “show the full breadth and range of this story”.

    “Fundamentally I think she was doing a good job under difficult circumstances under extraordinary scrutiny.”

    Scott said McNeill had twice been awarded young journalist of the year, won a Walkley for reporting in 2010 and had filed from all over the world.

    “This reporter is under more scrutiny that any other foreign correspondent filing from any part of the world in my experience at the ABC,” he said.

    “Some of her reporting of the refugee crisis has been absolutely outstanding and brought to bear insights into the horror and complexity.

    “Before this reporter set foot in the Middle East there was a campaign against her personally taking up that role. I am saying that she is a highly recognised and acclaimed reporter … she deserved that appointment and she needs to be judged on her work.”

    Last month an ABC spokeswoman defended McNeill from attack in the Australian Jewish News. “Sophie McNeill is a multi-award winning journalist who was sent to Jerusalem because of her excellent credentials in covering this region,” she told Guardian Australia. “She covers complex and contested stories and she and the ABC expect her reporting to be closely scrutinised. Any genuine complaints about her work would be dealt with through the usual editorial processes.”

    The Australian Jewish News has accused McNeill of having a “record of political activism in support of the Palestinian side of this conflict”.

    McNeill recently spoke about the personal toll of the post for the Correspondents Report: “In the space of one day I go from being worried about my family getting caught up in violence in Jerusalem by a Palestinian attacker, to then crossing over to the West Bank to face Israeli soldiers firing rubber bullets, tear gas and even live rounds as I film angry young Palestinians protesting [against] the Israeli occupation and the illegal Israeli settlements being built on their land.

    “I pause when my kids ask to go the park and wonder if the one near us is a possible target. I then hear the roar of Israeli airforce jets practising in the air over my house and I worry about Palestinian friends in Gaza and the hundreds of people I’ve met there over the years who’ve experienced the horror of air strikes and bombings by the Israeli air force.”…”

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/dec/01/eric-abetz-attacks-abc-reporter-sophie-mcneill-over-middle-east-reporting

    Kudos to Sophie and ABC!!!

    • niass2
      December 2, 2015, 5:37 pm

      Yes, and it sucks for me that other so called jews like this person can run around yapping nonsense when any normal educated Jewish american can tell that the reporters are doing their job. It puts me, as a Jewish american, in a box and it pisses me off. But what do they care, they like being fascists. They think their warped perception that their European heritage accords them the right to intervene in the middle east cannot be challenged. Except it can, by real existing people who know that our ancestors were not from Isreal, sorry, that’s ther way it is. The truth about Hillel is, Oh I wont go into it again, lets just say no one hanging out there is winning any beauty contests. Like at any College frat or whatever, those still hanging out there several years later are usually wacked out on something. If they had an………….

  20. oneangrycomic
    December 1, 2015, 9:09 am

    Rudoren’s Hanukkah gift to her ZioBosses and readers sets the tone for her new Propaganda Position. We may have to endure years of this swill if we dare to read her distasteful columns. The NYT has become like a bottle of wine with a great label that has been allowed to go bad.

    The Hasbara Hangover resulting from over-imbibing on Rudoren’s and other ZioLies will be head-splitting! But the Times’ Ziomasters and vile readership trolls will drink until the bottle has been sucked dry! Unfortunately for them, organizations like BDS and Mondoweiss are uncovering their lies and increasing public awareness of them.

    When enough people become aware of the truth, there will be “grapes of wrath” the likes of which mankind has seldom experienced! The civilized world will soon lift a glass and toast the end of Hasbara and Zionism! I’ll drink to that!

  21. Theo
    December 1, 2015, 12:03 pm

    When young in Boston, it seems a century ago, we drank Morgan David wine during parties. It made you mild, but not real drunk.
    Today I would not touch it anymore, my knowledge of wines improved somewhat, and if Israel wants to beat french and other european wines, they have a job ahead of them. We should also not forget the excellent California, argentine and chile wines, sometimes they beat the overrated wines from France.

    • Mooser
      December 1, 2015, 12:17 pm

      “We should also not forget the excellent California, argentine and chile wines,”

      Washington state makes some decent wines, and is becoming well known for other agricounter-cultural products.

      • oldgeezer
        December 1, 2015, 1:35 pm

        Charles Smith wines are my favourite of all wines. Eve is a fantastic white and velvet devil an equally delicious red.

      • Theo
        December 2, 2015, 9:23 am

        Mooser

        Grapes need a dry and sunny climate, with just enough rain, to ripe with a lot of sugar to be made into good wines, in my opinion the state of Washington with its rainy weather could not produce the quality needed.
        On the other hand today they make cuvee´s by mixing different wines from different areas, even countries. Those who appreciate a good wine would not drink it.

      • Kris
        December 2, 2015, 11:10 am

        @Theo: “in my opinion the state of Washington with its rainy weather could not produce the quality needed.”

        Some very good wine is produced in Washington state; eastern Washington state is dry and sunny.

        Washington wine is wine produced from grape varieties grown in the U.S. state of Washington. Washington ranks second in the United States (behind California) in the production of wine.[3]

        By 2011, the state had over 43,000 acres (170 km2) of vineyards, a harvest of 142,000 short tons (129,000 t) of grapes, and exports going to over 40 countries around the world from the 850+ wineries located in the state.

        While there are some viticultural activities in the cooler, wetter western half of the state, the majority (99.9%) of wine grape production takes place in the shrub-steppe eastern half.[4] The rain shadow of the Cascade Range leaves the Columbia River Basin with around 8 inches (200 mm) of annual rain fall, making irrigation and water rights of paramount interest to the Washington wine industry.

        Viticulture in the state is also influenced by long sunlight hours (on average, two more hours a day than in California during the growing season) and consistent temperatures.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_wine

      • tree
        December 2, 2015, 11:22 am

        Theo, I’m assuming you aren’t from the West Coast, and thus don’t know that it is only the western parts of Washington and Oregon that are considered “rainy”. West of the Cascade mountain range to be exact, which runs northward through the western third of both states. It’s even downright desert-like in certain parts of eastern Oregon and Washington. And even in the western part, most of the rain comes during the winter months after grape harvest season is over.

        Most of the population of the two states is spread across the I-5 corridor just west of the Cascades, in the rainy area, so its an easy, but faulty, assumption to make. The wine country of Washington is in the southcentral part, east of the Cascades.

        http://www.winecountrywashington.org/

      • Mooser
        December 2, 2015, 11:33 am

        ” in my opinion the state of Washington with its rainy weather could not produce the quality needed.”

        The rainy climate is a feature of Western Washington. By the ocean. Eastern Washington, east over the Cascades, is a completely different inland dry climate. And every climate in between can be found.

        But be careful, Theo, please. I’m very sensitive about this subject. When you say “Washington…could not produce the quality needed” you are coming very close to a bud libel! I won’t stand for that.

      • Mooser
        December 2, 2015, 2:30 pm

        “Some very good wine is produced in Washington state; eastern Washington state is dry and sunny.”

        There’s a simple test which guarantees a good wine. Grasp the bottle, with the neck facing up. If the top unscrews to the left, counter-clockwise, it is good wine.
        I’m not sure if this hold for wines produced below the equator, but here this simple test never fails.

      • Theo
        December 3, 2015, 12:14 pm

        OK, friends, I stay corrected, this shows that one is never too old to learn something new.
        I lived only on the east coast, Boston and Florida, and have no idea of the weather in the west. In Europe, where I live since over 40 years, you can buy California wine, but I have never seen one from that great State of Washington.

      • oldgeezer
        December 3, 2015, 2:42 pm

        @Theo

        Try looking for Charles Smith wines or K Vintners. Same company but K is a higher price point product. There are a couple of other lines under the umbrella but I am not familiar with them. This family of wines are far from being the only excellent product from tbe region. No association with them on my part except for being a loyal repeat customer haha

      • Mooser
        December 3, 2015, 6:53 pm

        “In Europe, where I live since over 40 years, you can buy California wine, but I have never seen one from that great State of Washington.”

        Washington’s other agricountercultural product is inspected by State inspectors and tested for potency by State labs. And the results are printed right on the package.
        In Washington State, all the bud labels are true!

  22. hophmi
    December 1, 2015, 12:19 pm

    LOL. James North can’t seem to process any human interest story about Israelis. Of course, the article makes clear that the winemaking grew out of a project in the occupied West Bank. So you have your occupation reference.

    And why, exactly, is it orientalist to say that winemaking was outlawed after the Islamic conquest of the Holy Land in the seventh century? Truth is orientalist now? Oh right, because it doesn’t fit the subtext that you made up out of whole cloth to create a problem where none exists.

    And of course, your blatant cherry-picking; you ignore this quote: “The vintner, Ido Lewinsohn, said his product is “clean and pure of any political influence,” adding of the grapes: “These are not Israeli; they are not Palestinian. They belong to the region — this is something beautiful.”

    Guess what, James: Other things happen in Israel and Palestine besides the conflict. Maybe if you took your head out of your behind, you might notice that and come up with a better way of making peace.

    • amigo
      December 1, 2015, 1:06 pm

      “And of course, your blatant cherry-picking; you ignore this quote: “The vintner, Ido Lewinsohn, said his product is “clean and pure of any political influence,” adding of the grapes: “These are not Israeli; they are not Palestinian. They belong to the region — this is something beautiful.”hopmi

      Unlike zionism which is something ugly and does not belong in any region.

    • gamal
      December 1, 2015, 1:47 pm

      “And why, exactly, is it orientalist to say that winemaking was outlawed after the Islamic conquest of the Holy Land in the seventh century? Truth is orientalist now?”

      “Great is the difference between the Turks and Persians, for the Turks being by law prohibited, abstain from wine yet drink it covertly, but the Persians, now as of old, drink openly and with excess”
      Thomas Herbert 1627
      Abu Nuwas?

      Copts have never stopped making wine, whole classes of the Islamic polities the intelligentsia, high officials and Caliphs were famous for their drinking, one of the governors of Basra was so drunk during the Juma that he puked over the steps of the minbar ( not minibar), while giving the khutbah.

      “Paradoxically, it was Muslim chemists who were responsible for developing distillation to a high level of sophistication and transmitting it to Europe via Spain. Although distillation is a process which arose independently in different places in the world, Muslims greatly improved distillation technology. In the eighth century Muslims developed that distinctively shaped apparatus which is a staple of every chemistry laboratory – the alembic – for the efficient collection of distillate through a descending condensation tube. … ”

      alcoholism is and always has been a problem in the Muslim world, but yes its banned in Islam, as all Orientalists know, unless you are hanafite or one those hanbalites, I usually have a glass of champagne before Friday Prayers and always take a hip flask, in case the sermon is too long.

      https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-1311165191/alcohol-and-islam-an-overview

      • amigo
        December 1, 2015, 4:53 pm

        Gamal .check out todays Irish times , Middle East section.

        http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/israel-aims-to-recreate-wine-drunk-by-king-david-and-jesus-1.2448937

        Looks as if rudoren is part of a movement to turn Irish people from “stout ” drinkers ” to wine lushes .

      • gamal
        December 1, 2015, 5:39 pm

        Its weird Amigo, you can buy wine anywhere in Ireland, many petrol stations village shops, stout however is also freely available, but Barley Wine is the drink of the Devil. No one drank wine here much 30 years ago, that i remember.

        A while ago I was innocently wondering if a4tech preferred mujaawad or murattal renderings, I was rebuffed, so here is Abu Nuwas, doing his ‘papa got a brand new bag’ act, you have to laugh he lampoons the classical poets ‘the wretches……who grieve over tent pegs’. He prefers not grieving wine and the company of young women (sometimes boys), “where’s the pub” is his main concern.

        If you click play at the link a guy very mujawaad reads the Arabic which goes red and the English pops up right by it, its great, probably an Israeli invention.

        https://www.princeton.edu/~arabic/poetry/abunuwas.html

  23. James Canning
    December 1, 2015, 1:35 pm

    Surely Jodi Rudoren is aware that the Palestinians descend from the people who lived in Palestine two thousand years ago.

  24. can of worms
    December 1, 2015, 1:57 pm

    The Times. Johannesburg, 1976 — A new brand of crisp, bright mineral gold was put on the market last month, the first mined from indigenous gold. It was discovered in a groundbreaking project in a township near Johannesburg, to recreate the ancient gold worn by the likes of Adam, the rosy-cheeked ancestor of the white people.

  25. Boo
    December 1, 2015, 3:49 pm

    Best be careful with that wine, boys. Noah got drunk and passed out nekkid. Lot got drunk and his daughters hopped right up on him. Gotta watch out for that 3000-year-old DNA.

  26. Qualtrough
    December 1, 2015, 11:21 pm

    @a4tech – You like to bring to our attention all the evil that the white race has unleashed on the world, so I am curious to know what you think is behind the evil machinations of this pale race? Genetics? Culture? Both? Do you have any ideas for a final solution that might rid the world of this scourge?

    • Mooser
      December 2, 2015, 11:28 am

      “Do you have any ideas for a final solution that might rid the world of this scourge?”

      The problem may take care of itself! Maybe it is already happening!

      And there is a name for this process, it is called “A Whiter Shade of Fail”

      • RoHa
        December 2, 2015, 7:29 pm

        Another hit by Boko Haram.

        But the articles you mention specifically show that this is only a decline in American whites. Australian and European whites seem to be doing fine, so the scourge may well be around a bit longer.

  27. Ossinev
    December 2, 2015, 3:10 pm

    Hot off Haaretz front page
    “Food Wars: Did Jews Invent Falafel After All?”
    Next targeted Zionist inventions rumoured to be spaghetti bolognese ,curry , fish and chips and haggis.

    Chosen people.Chosen food.

    • Kay24
      December 2, 2015, 4:31 pm

      Perhaps it is arrogance, maybe greed, but these zionists not only seem to claim ownership to stolen lands, but everything else that belongs to other people, but now it seems they want to have bragging rights to falafel. The Japanese had better patent the rights to Sushi.

  28. niass2
    December 2, 2015, 5:22 pm

    The comments here are whatever, This household doesn’t read the Times anymore for information. That’s a sad commentary, but there aren’t any US Newspapers that aren’t devolving into this kind of gibberish. Sure its a boring pro isreal puff piece, and anyone would know that maybe they should cover what is going on in anywhere else, like what kind of food shortages exist in sudan,. Pick up a copy of the Boston Globe, which the NYT owns or used to. Its a cut and paste job with a few AP stories, with the rest of it targeted to some fictitous Birkentstock wearing sniveling suburban half wit, who does not exist. This is why the Boston Globe and NYT are filled with nonsense, their staff has no clue what the readers might want. For them its all like being at a friends “Coffee” while their spouse buys overpriced food at Whole Foods Market. Rudoren thinks our review of her drivel is nonsense? It is, garbage. No one is going to be splurging on any Isreali wines unless they are already drunk on Zionism. If they sold marijuana this generation of americans might pay attention. She should write about Isreali weed. Even my mom said its a garbage uninteresting pieve about a place no one cares about anymore. And she did a semester there. , she loves wine and she likes things like “The bachelor.” She didnt buy the NYT for $7 last Sunday to read that crap. Trust me, she didn’t. My Mom is buying a case of Beaujolais or however u spell it. Support France, I heard they make Wine there. Hophmi can drink the Isreali wine, its probably too sweet anyways, meaning it gives you a stomach ache if you use it for what its for…to get drunk.

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