Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points

Middle East

Like so many others in the world in the last twelve hours, we’ve gone back and forth to the screen to find out the latest news from Paris. But really, it doesn’t make sense to be glued to the media right now. No one knows that much; there’s been a lot of misinformation, and the most important facts we know so far seemed pretty clear at the start, a small group of self-styled Islamist radicals had carried out terror attacks in Paris, with massive loss of innocent lives. Right now the French people and the families of the victims have our deep condolences. We’re pulling for all the injured to come through. We want to put an arm around the frightened young urbanites near the Bataclan.

And yes, some of the victims are sure to be Muslim citizens of Paris — as the perpetrators were Muslims. But this is not the time to try to score political points off the horrors. Yes, important political decisions will be made in the coming days, but right now it’s grotesque to try and use the Paris suffering to advance any cause — even our cause, a just solution in Israel and Palestine and a regime of human rights around the world. We know that if we could wave a wand and the Israel/Palestine conflict ended tomorrow and all the dictators were marched off to the Hague, some disaffected French youth would still be radicalized. There are other causes, too, for that besides Palestine, from Syria being broken to the souring of the Arab spring, to unemployment and marginalization in France itself.

That being said, Paris’s Friday the 13th is surely a momentous day in the history of issues we care about: the relations of Muslim former colonial territories to the imperial west, the relations of Islam and Judaism and Christianity, and the efforts by some to turn political differences into religious war and raise the walls between cultures. We have long resisted those efforts, and we will going forward. We have too many Muslim and Jewish and Christian friends to do otherwise, and if you believe in the progress and benefits of civilization, then that’s nothing less than a duty. In the next 24 hours we’re going to seek out informed voices we trust, including Juan Cole, Josh Landis, Adam Shatz, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, and Jews Against Islamophobia, among others, for analysis. We’re going to stay away from the television, grieve for others’ losses, and honor those in France who are responding with aid, kindness and reserve.

About James North and Philip Weiss

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144 Responses

  1. pabelmont
    November 14, 2015, 11:30 am

    My email to President Obama:

    President Obama:

    Speaking of the terrorist attack on Paris you said:

    Once again we’ve seen an outrageous attempt to terrorize innocent civilians. This is an attack not just on Paris, it’s an attack not just on the people of France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values that we share

    But there is a far worse, and far more long-continuing attack on all innocent civilians throughout the world, living and not yet born, namely CLIMATE CHANGE/GLOBAL WARMING.

    And the USA has largely, though not single handedly, caused this attack.
    And the USA has largely, though again not single handedly, refused to deal in a serious way (to limit emission of greenhouse gases GHGs).

    It is time for the USA to begin VERY ACTIVE and VERY SUSTAINED efforts to combat the on-rushing CLIMATE CHANGE/GLOBAL WARMING.

    Please be a leader in this important matter.

    I DOUBT HE (OR HIS OFFICE) WILL EVER READ THIS EMAIL. I DOUBT IT WILL MATTER IF THEY DO.

    SAME GOES FOR EMAIL S ABOUT PALESTINE.

    • GCarty80
      November 15, 2015, 6:40 am

      The worst thing about the global warming crisis is that it is the very people who have been screaming the loudest about the threat (the big Green NGOs) that are actually most responsible for it! All major environmentalist groups are ardently opposed to nuclear energy — the one source of reliable power that is geographically-independent and does not emit CO2 — because they are themselves in the pocket of the very Big Oil interests that they claim to be fighting against. Much of the money is laundered through so-called “philanthropic foundations” but it is still Big Oil money serving Big Oil interests.

      Instead they sell the public a fantasy world powered by wind and solar — power sources which in the real world are so unreliable that they are almost useless for reducing CO2 emissions, as they must be backed up by natural gas plants of the inefficient “simple cycle” design, which can ramp up at a moment’s notice when the weather ceases to play ball (it’s the same reason why driving a car in stop-go city traffic is less efficient that driving on the highway at speed).

      There’s a reason why when former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder (who initiated Germany’s policy of phasing out nuclear power) was rewarded by Gazprom (the Russian national gas company) with a cushy job paying €500,000 a year! Germany has spent hundreds of billions of euros on wind and solar, and all it has to show for it is the second-highest electricity prices in Europe (offshore wind champ Denmark has the highest) and CO2 emissions still over 400 g/kWh. Nuclear-powered France by contrast emits less than 100 g/kWh and pays half as much for its electricity as Germany.

      The corruption of environmentalism by oil and gas money has a long history — it began in early 20th-century California when the Sierra Club (which up to that point had been an organization opposing hydroelectric dams for essentially aesthetic reasons, much like the anti-wind-farm campaigners today) was able to grow big thanks to donations from oil interests who to sell natural gas (until then simply flared off as dangerous waste) as a fuel for electricity generation. And in 1969 (during a bitter internal struggle within the Sierra Club over nuclear energy, which the anti-nukes won a few years later) David Brower broke away to form the more militantly anti-nuclear Friends of the Earth group, with the help of $200,000 supplied by oil tycoon Robert Anderson.

  2. just
    November 14, 2015, 11:43 am

    Well done.

  3. diasp0ra
    November 14, 2015, 11:53 am

    While it saddens me greatly to see any innocent civilian harmed in this way, it also saddens me that the ISIL attack on Lebanon which also happened yesterday that left over 40 dead will not gain the coverage it too deserves.

    Similarly to how the Boko Haram massacre in Baga barely received any coverage due to the Charlie Hebdo attack, although it dwarfed it in scale and victims claimed.

    Indeed, before anyone tries to use this to score points against Islam and Muslims, let them remember that the most numerous victims of ISIL are predominantly Muslims.

  4. Theo
    November 14, 2015, 11:59 am

    I spent hours watching international TV reports on this tragedy, however most reporters tried to outdo eachother by making untrue claims, so we must just wait until the dust settles down.

    Every human life is just as valuable as all others, regardless of jewish, islam or christian, white or other colour, and it bothers me how politicians declare war on people who are damned to live in the middle east and have absolutly nothing to do with the Paris events!
    France decided to join the bombing of ISIS during this past september, and I have profecised that they will be very sorry doing it. Both France and GB, the old colonial powers in that area, try to outdo eacher to fight the ISIS and gain influence again in the region. The problem is that they do the fighting by bombing towns and cities and we all know those smart bombs are not as smart as claimed to be, they kill more innocent people, women and children, than the actual targets, the terrorists. The US military is a good example, we killed in Afghanistan, Iraq, not to forget Vietnam, millions of innocent civilians and the killing orgy still goes on. A hospital bombed, sorry, collateral damage, a wedding party, why do they keep firing their rifles into the air, etc.

    Gen. Wesley Clark, (I have the pleasure to know him personally, he plays a great handball and racketball), made an interview and we all can see it on YouTube. According to him, about 10 years ago certain political groups in the Pentagon decided to destabilize 7 ME countries, it was sold to us as the “Arab Spring”. Dictators, not friendly to the US, must be deposed and new ones installed. Consequently we have a failed state in Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, Libya and Syria, ( with Iran they could not achieve their goals ), because we never knew what to do and had no plans after we destroyed a state.

    Our politicians would do good if they sit back and think for a minute or two. We are bombing and invading countries and killing hundreds of thousands in the ME, what did they think, what will be the results? A thank you with red roses? They are hitting back and Paris may just be the beginning. If a man has nothing to lose he can be very dangerous and an underground army can fight very hard and beat a regular army anytime, or did we not learn anything from our losses in Vietnam? Little men in black pyjamas, with a handfull of rice as daily meal, beat the mightiest military power on Earth, we were running for our lives. The afghans drove out the british, the russians and the US/NATO forces are the next, all superpowers with great military might. After the Korean War with its huge loss of lives, our generals advised that we should never get into a landwar in Asia, as we cannot win it!! We ignored this advice, consequently we lost all wars in Asia during the past 50 years or so. Is it not the time to get the idiots out of our governments and replace them with men who have brains?

    • Blownaway
      November 14, 2015, 12:56 pm

      +1

    • just
      November 14, 2015, 1:09 pm

      Thanks for that post, Theo.

    • Kay24
      November 14, 2015, 3:01 pm

      Excellent comment Theo. I wish you could convey this to the rest of the nation. Time Americans opened their eyes (and brains).

    • JWalters
      November 14, 2015, 6:16 pm

      I also appreciate your comment. Factual historical context is certainly relevant, and here are some additions in that vein.

      Most of the leadership of ISIS are former Iraqi bureaucrats, officers, and generals, people who have enormous institutional experience, and know how to run things. These are people dismissed by the Bush administration upon invading Iraq, taking home their weapons and knowledge of the munitions depots hidden around Iraq. An excellent discussion of the origins of ISIS, including parallels with the origin of Israel, with Chris Hedges and professor Sabah Alnasseri is here.

      The invasion of Iraq was steered by the Neocons, well-known to be Israeli loyalists in America, and principle pushers for a war with Iran. These wars are parts of a larger Neocon goal of attacking five Middle Eastern countries, blueprinted in their Project for a New American Century (PNAC), and described by General Wesley Clark here.

      The Military-Industrial Complex is an key economic sector of Israel and the U.S., as described here.
      http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/because-global-supplier

      And there is a clear case the the financiers who engineered the Zionist military takeover of Palestine, including the manipulated U.N. partition vote, were mainly interested in the MIC profits from starting a religious war and destabilizing the Middle East. This entire conflagration today was predicted by the U.S. Secretary of Defense back when Israel was established. The relevant historical facts are given in a link “highly” recommended by former CIA analyst Ray McGovern at the bottom of the page here.
      http://consortiumnews.com/2014/06/03/the-real-villains-of-the-bergdahl-tale/

      This tragic attack in Paris is clearly blowback, and probably welcomed by the ammunitioneers trying to sell more wars.

    • Citizen
      November 15, 2015, 4:40 am

      Some folks at the Pentagon, fifteen years ago? How about PNAC, which started up in the later 1990s? It’s players zionists and neocons & their media pundits and think tanks, are still thriving as if they have not been wrong all along. There’s a straight line from Frum’s coinage, the “Axis of Evil,” [it’s still 1939) and Rubio on national tv yesterday, telling us we are engaged in a “war of civilizations,” a cultural war between the East and the West, between “universal values” and (radical?) Islam.

    • Bill R.
      November 15, 2015, 5:35 pm

      it was sold to us as the “Arab Spring”. Dictators, not friendly to the US, must be deposed and new ones installed.

      So you think the Arab Spring was manufactured and not a real series of uprisings? And all the dictators that were deposed were not friendly to the US? Does that include US-supported Mubarak in Egypt and US-supported Ben Ali in Tunisia?

      Our politicians would do good if they sit back and think for a minute or two.

      They do think, quite lucidly actually. The view that political leaders are a bunch of idiots who commit ‘blunders’ such as starting wars and invading countries because they don’t take the time to think is a form of apology for imperialism. You whitewash their crime and diminish their responsibility by blaming their incompetence or idiocy when those crimes are mostly the result of conscious and well thought-out decisions, with the knowledge of what the likely consequences would be.

      • Theo
        November 16, 2015, 7:55 am

        Bill R.

        I agree with a great part of your comments, however not on the Arab Spring.
        I have nearly 60 years experience on uprisings, and almost always outside powers had their fingers in it. Or do you really think in all those arab countries, where the people were subjugated and the secret police knew about every little meeting, those poor people got together, stood up against their dictator without any help?
        What about those 50-60 NGOs operating in all those countries, including Russia before Putin asked them to leave? Let me clear you up, those were and still are great places to hide western spies and agitators.

        The syrian civil war started with 1,200 “freedom fighters”, trained by the british and qatari military in Libya, armed and supplied with funds and spirited into Syria through Turkey. 90% of those were not syrians, but mercenaries from other arab countries, I even had the names of two brothers, born libyans, but living in Ireland. This force grew into an army of almost 15,000, armed and financed by the west. The USA just spent 500 million to train 4-5, yes 4 or 5, to fight Assad, all others joined and gave their weapons to islamic groups. That much about our great leaders, 100 million dollars each for a new “freedom fighter”, who may not do anything, but sit on his fanny and spend our money.

        A politician may have an very high IQ, but still may be ignorant, if they cannot see the end of their actions. A good example: german Chancellor Angela Merkel, without thinking, invited all syrial refugees to Germany, surpassing the Parlament and ignoring german and EU laws. Consequently Germany is flooded by nearly a million refugees, not all syrians, and they are still coming. The country cannot handle this kind of influx and the result is the nationalistic forces are growing very rapidly and Merkel must step down sooner or later, her political life comes to a screeching halt. The damage is huge, estimated 15 billion euros per year, when the country just had to bail ot the greeks and the banks, costing hundreds of billions.

        Coming to our congressmen, senators and politicians, I am amazed how poorly educated and ignorant of this world are, they want to invade or bomb a country, but do not know where is it located. It seems there is nothing outside the USA, US laws apply all over the world and what is good for the USA should also be good for anyone else. That is why I said we need people with brains in the governments, not politicians, whose only aim is to sell themselves to the public, regardless what it takes.
        Hillary is attacking her own president from the same party, an unheard act of political ignorance.

    • Bill R.
      November 17, 2015, 10:57 pm

      For some reason I can’t reply to your reply from Monday so I’ll do it here.

      I have nearly 60 years experience on uprisings, and almost always outside powers had their fingers in it. Or do you really think in all those arab countries, where the people were subjugated and the secret police knew about every little meeting, those poor people got together, stood up against their dictator without any help? What about those 50-60 NGOs operating in all those countries…those were and still are great places to hide western spies and agitators.

      I don’t know where you got your experience but what you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense. Why would Western powers send spies and agitators to foment the overthrow of regimes they support? It’s elementary logic. I mentioned Tunisia and Egypt but there’s also Yemen and Bahrain (in the latter’s case the uprisings were crushed by Western trained Saudi soldiers). Among the six countries where the major Arab Spring uprisings took place, four of them had (and still have for the most part) Western backed regimes. To call the Arab Spring a Western plot is nonsensical.

      The syrian civil war started with 1,200 “freedom fighters”, trained by the british and qatari military in Libya, armed and supplied with funds and spirited into Syria through Turkey. 90% of those were not syrians, but mercenaries from other arab countries…This force grew into an army of almost 15,000, armed and financed by the west.

      The Syrian civil war started after the Assad regime brutally cracked down on peaceful protesters, many of whom then took up arms, joined by defecting Syrian soldiers. Once the civil war broke out, other countries in the region got involved, including Saudi Arabia and Qatar supplying money, weapons and fighters to Syrian rebel factions. This absolutely does not mean that these countries started or engineered the Syrian civil war, it means they’re trying to take advantage of the situation to pursue their interests.

      A politician may have an very high IQ, but still may be ignorant, if they cannot see the end of their actions. A good example: german Chancellor Angela Merkel, without thinking, invited all syrial refugees to Germany, surpassing the Parlament and ignoring german and EU laws. Consequently Germany is flooded by nearly a million refugees, not all syrians, and they are still coming. The country cannot handle this kind of influx and the result is the nationalistic forces are growing very rapidly and Merkel must step down sooner or later, her political life comes to a screeching halt. The damage is huge, estimated 15 billion euros per year, when the country just had to bail ot the greeks and the banks, costing hundreds of billions.

      Actually, several economists believe that welcoming refugees will be beneficial to Germany’s economy because Germany has an aging population and needs this influx in order to slow down the growth of its old-age dependency ratio. Something that Merkel likely understands.

      Coming to our congressmen, senators and politicians, I am amazed how poorly educated and ignorant of this world are, they want to invade or bomb a country, but do not know where is it located.

      There are ignorant politicians (shockingly ignorant in the case of the US) but by and large the people who are part of the state apparatus, the planners and decision-makers, know very well what they’re doing. Their actions are part of deliberate policies, designed to benefit the state’s interests.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 17, 2015, 11:44 pm

        what you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense. Why would Western powers send spies and agitators to foment the overthrow of regimes they support?

        sometimes western powers send spies and agitators to ferment the overthrow of regimes they do not support. generally when they do this it is covert (for example in syria where cheney’s democracy building initiatives were illegal), therefore you’re not supposed to know. you’re supposed to think what the western press tells you. here’s a good example of an operation like that w/testimoney from cia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4fIzJv34_g

        and, it’s also advantageous to have provocateurs embedded at events where you do support the leaders because these provocateurs are used to incite the crowd which in turn provides a justification for authorities to crack down on demonstrators. for example, the protest at the republican convention http://www.commondreams.org/news/2009/05/17/fbi-infiltrated-iowa-anti-war-group-gop-convention. there are videos of israeli infiltrators in disguise inciting violence at protests. this is not unusual. in fact, it’s been done throughout history. they even have a name for them. they are called “Agent provocateur” or google “false flag” operations. this stuff doesn’t just go in in hollywood movies.

        i’ll let someone else deal with your other naive opinions.

      • talknic
        November 18, 2015, 2:09 am

        Bill R “… Among the six countries where the major Arab Spring uprisings took place, four of them had (and still have for the most part) Western backed regimes. To call the Arab Spring a Western plot is nonsensical”

        The PNAC didn’t seem to think so.

      • Theo
        November 18, 2015, 12:02 pm

        Bill R.

        “I don´t know where did you get your experience….”

        1956 hungarian uprising against the soviets, 1968, Prague uprising, 1974 argentine military coup in Buenos Aires. Do I qualify, in your estimate?
        Do not judge others according to your limited horizon.

      • Theo
        November 20, 2015, 9:12 am

        Annie Robbins

        Thanks for the video on the overthrow of rumanian president Caucescue, I remember very well of the event and knew or knew of the persons who were active to make it happen.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 20, 2015, 9:45 am

        I … knew of the persons who were active to make it happen.

        wow!

  5. a4tech
    November 14, 2015, 12:05 pm

    People, just think for a moment. How is ISIS, who is currently being obliterated by Russia, stand to gain anything from this? On the other hand, who stands to gain the most from the ensuing chaos and panic towards Islam?

    Every major terrorist acts in the past 50 years consistently have been sourced from actions of only two countries. As such, it is wise to consider the bigger picture before simply accepting the media’s storyline.

    This is all part of the game these people are playing, and they wear the finest suits, not black jumpers and headwraps.

    • Laurent Weppe
      November 14, 2015, 4:22 pm

      Daesh is not being obliterated by Russia: Russia is mostly bombing places were Daesh isn’t present.

      Daesh is being beaten, sure: mostly by the Kurds who recently cut its territory in two by taking Sinjar on the road between Raqqa and Mossul.
      As for what Daesh think they can gain, well, their reasoning is that if the far-right take over France, its new fascist leaders will start by focusing on exterminating the secular and progressive Muslims first, creating a vacuum that they will then fill.

      • lysias
        November 14, 2015, 6:20 pm

        If Russia is doing nothing to ISIS, why did ISIS bomb the Russian plane? And why, according to CNN a couple of days ago, has ISIS been threatening to start terrorism inside Russia?

      • RoHa
        November 15, 2015, 1:18 am

        “Daesh is not being obliterated by Russia: Russia is mostly bombing places were Daesh isn’t present. ”

        The distinction between Daesh and the other rebel groups in Syria is, I think, more technical than real. But even if we accept it, Russian support has enabled the Syrian Army to make strategically important gains at the expense of Daesh allies, and so at the expense of Daesh.

        The recent advance of the Kurds was made possible, we are told, by US air support. It looks as though the Russian intervention has spurred the U.S. into effective action, instead of (or, perhaps, in addition to) bombing Syrian infrastructure and supplying arms for Daesh.

    • Blownaway
      November 14, 2015, 9:38 pm

      Nevertheless it is interesting that Sucha professional group makes the mistake of bringing a Syrian passport along? Who does that?

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 4:48 am

        @ Blownaway

        Yes. Good question. One survivor stated on tv yesterday, describing a Paris attacker (paraphrasing) : “He looked like a normal young guy on the street.” And, (not paraphrasing): ” He told us, ‘Take a look at Syria.'”

  6. MHughes976
    November 14, 2015, 12:31 pm

    There is certainly a time for silence on the politics of an event and for concentration only on the horror and sadness. But another time, when the consequences begin to unfold and political discussion becomes essential, always follows.

  7. Blownaway
    November 14, 2015, 12:50 pm

    Unless your Ted Crazy or Nuttenyahu or and of the neocons hijacking this tragedy. The best that can come from this is an examination of the Wests activities that caused this blowback.

    • Kay24
      November 14, 2015, 2:58 pm

      A good point. I had the same thoughts, but I realized many have very short memories, and it is convenient for them to not self examine or re-visit the the start of activities that started this avalanche. Interfering, toppling governments, attacking sovereign nations on false intelligence, stealing oil, conniving/training/arming with rebels, can have terrible consequences.

      Unfortunately, we seem to always think we are doing the right thing, although we have an ugly history of being wrong, many times.

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 4:55 am

        Last night, Sanders kept pointing out that the present situation is the result of-fallout from, the US invasion of Iraq, which he voted against. Hillary admitted she had “made a mistake,” in voting for it, but listed Muslim attacks going back to the Marines murdered in Lebanon, then the bombing in the early 1990s, etc–listing all incidents where Americans were attacked by Muslims prior to Bush Jr’s invasion of Iraq. (If memory serves, a Christian Arab group murdered those Marines, enabled to do so by Israel. Is that correct?)

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 5:12 am

        Beirut Marine Corps Bombing Debacle–1st Muslim attack on US: Look at the entangled groups, states & Reagan’s acts: http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/10/24/30th-anniverary-of-beirut-marine-corps-bombing-debacle/#.VkhaUdQ1Slg.twitter

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 5:20 am

        1st Muslim attack on Americans–Marines murdered in Lebanon: Israeli connection: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/beirut.html?q=beirut.html

      • Kay24
        November 15, 2015, 9:06 am

        Citizen, Israel is notorious for operating in devious ways, false flags, and setting the US against other nations, especially in the ME, is well known. They are masters at “controlling” US foreign policies, and will prod, lie, exaggerate, give testimony in Congress, and do anything to make the US waste time, money, and lives, so that THEY benefit. Examples are Iraq, and that comic attempt by Netanyahu, cartoon bomb and all, when it came to Iran. That goodness he was shown the door this time, and he was desperate in his tries. Shame on the US for going along with this trouble maker, and not learning from prior mistakes.

        How many able bodies IDF thugs fought with our troops the past few years? None.

    • light2014
      November 14, 2015, 9:42 pm

      “Blowback ” is what comes out of the back of a bazooka when it’s shell is launched. This is due to the physics of the firing of a machine a piece of determined equipment. But terrorists are not machines and they are not being mechanically blownback rather they are choosing , deciding to carry out a plan to intentionally and freely murder innocents. This is not
      collateral damage this is a person’s choice to directly go after innocents .
      Bazookas can’t choose ,people can.

      • eljay
        November 14, 2015, 10:20 pm

        || light2014: … terrorists are not machines … they are choosing , deciding to carry out a plan to intentionally and freely murder innocents. This is not collateral damage this is a person’s choice to directly go after innocents . Bazookas can’t choose ,people can. ||

        Another perfect description of Zio-supremacists. Kudos to you and hophmi.

      • Kris
        November 14, 2015, 10:23 pm

        blowback, n. : an unforeseen and unwanted effect, result, or set of repercussions . http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blowback

      • Kris
        November 14, 2015, 10:51 pm

        collateral damage, n: : deaths, injuries, and damage to the property of people who are not in the military that happens as a result of the fighting in a war. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collateral%20damage

        It is a dishonest term we use to deny our responsibility for the innocent people we harm. There is no reason why our opponents can’t similarly deny responsibility for the harm they do to innocent people, too. #stoplyingtoyourself

      • Mooser
        November 14, 2015, 10:57 pm

        “Bazookas can’t choose ,people can.”

        Yeah, I get it. The US could very easily chosen not to invade Iraq, or bomb Beirut, or go to war on Afghanistan or always back the Israelis in their intransigence. We have choices, too, many more than they do.

        And a bazooka is a recoil-less weapon, what comes out the back is the exhaust of the rocket which propels the charge. Blowback is a undesirable characteristic of firearms.

  8. Donald
    November 14, 2015, 12:59 pm

    Good post– I think that’s about right.

  9. eljay
    November 14, 2015, 1:05 pm

    Acts of injustice and immorality shouldn’t be used to “score points”. They should be used to underscore the fact that all people and all nations must strive for the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality.

    I hope that this – and not point scoring, chest thumping or debt settling – is what people take away from the recent tragedy in Paris.

  10. echinococcus
    November 14, 2015, 1:15 pm

    “Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points.”
    Not mutually exclusive. If you don’t draw political conclusions you’re helpless.

    “Besides, if we were able to end the Israel Palestine conflict tomorrow and create a global regime of human rights, it wouldn’t end radicalization of some Muslims in France.”

    “radicalization of some Muslims in France” has nothing to do with anything here; the war of aggression to utterly destroy and paralyze Syria and Iraq and Libya and Afghanistan and and and… is the only cause. Anyone expecting to keep Western lands immune from its own war of aggression is deluded. Thank you, Obama and Erdogan and Bush and Perle and Woldowitz and so on…

  11. ckg
    November 14, 2015, 1:17 pm

    Friday’s Paris attacks came a day after ISIS twin suicide bombings killed at least 43 people in a suburb of Beirut. More than 180 others were hurt and among the dead, two people from Dearborn, Michigan.

    The Shia couple’s three-year-old son was in the car with them during the explosion, and the mother shielded her son when it happened. “He knows it was a bomb,” her nephew said. “We asked him where were his parents, he said in the car. He said there was a bombing and that he saw his mom burn to death and I saw my dad bleed to death.”

    But chances are you won’t hear of this Dearborn couple in the news.

    • ckg
      November 14, 2015, 1:51 pm

      The mother was in Beirut in an attempt to bring her family to safety to the U.S. It’s people like her whom many politicians would keep away–the statue of liberty be damned.

  12. Herchel
    November 14, 2015, 1:47 pm

    Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points
    —-

    Of course. Your entire presence Is fashioned to score political points when Arabs are killed. When arabs do the killing, suddenly it’s time grieve and leave politics out of it. I’m sure CAIR and other trustworthy organizations will have your talking points out on this shortly. In the meantime, the world is reminded of the savagery Israel faces and you defend every day.

    • Kay24
      November 14, 2015, 2:37 pm

      The world was also reminded of the savagery the Palestinians faced, last year, in Gaza. Usually, the bigger terrorist is the side that inflict MORE civilians casualties:

      Let me refresh your memory:

      “In its most recent count, the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reports that 2,104 Palestinians were killed in Gaza, including 1,462 civilians, among them 495 children and 253 women. Those U.N. numbers would mean that 69 percent of the total killed were civilians.” Washington post

      Whether it is a terrorist group, or any nation (including the US) that inflicts heavy casualties on helpless civilians, send precision bombs into their homes, civilian structures, UN shelters, kids playing soccer, wedding, funerals, and any place where civilians are, or take shelter, IT IS WRONG AND AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAWS. It is nothing but terrorizing unarmed civilians that have to face that brutality.

      The Arabs/Muslims get demonized very often in the US media, there are certain elements, paid to put up anti Muslims posters in subways and buses, in fact the US media is fashioned to act that way, while they walk on egg shells when it comes to those occupying, and stealing lands.

      If Israel is facing rockets and stones coming their way, perhaps those sending them are sending it a message – end the damn occupation, and stop stealing their lands.
      But do not worry Israel is one of the top arms manufacturers, and add to that US weapons, and can easily “defend” itself. Think about it, all those sophisticated weaponry against rocks and rockets, it is a no brainer who has the upper hand there eh?

      Not a great idea to connect the horrible Paris situation with the Israel/Palestinian conflict.
      They are entirely different situations.

      Any nation that occupies for over 60 years, refuses to stop the occupation, and steal lands, should expect some form of protest that they will not like.

      New recruit eh? Welcome to Mondoweiss.

      • Arby
        November 14, 2015, 3:20 pm

        The corporate owned media will take no pause in spinning it’s narratives that the 1% of the 99% will have to deal with when we go out and mix with fellow workers, family, friends etc, who have been exposed to them.

        I take Juan Cole’s point that we don’t know everything yet. For example, That in itself is something which I can use to respond to those influenced by narratives spun by media tools, since it’s authoritative. If it’s just myself, then there I am saying “I’ disagree or “I” don’t trust the authorities to respond properly, etc.. I’m nobody special and I’ll immediately be dismissed because people are like that. They are negative, especially those who ‘know’ what major media tell them. I’ve already experienced that. A workmate last night mentioned the killings. I cautioned that the media will spin and she was totally defensive, responding with “It was in the news. It’s fact…” She completely missed my point beause “I” made it.

        A quick look around (Common Dreams .org moves fast) is useful for ‘not’ aiding and abetting that smugness and false pride that gives false narratives pumped out by the major media a home. Robert Parry’s (flawed but good) entry on Common Dreams, in which he pleads with Obama to turn on those who he works with (won’t happen), includes a few tidbits that, in fact, are easy to remember and something that will counter the smugness of those who don’t care enough to truly know. US intelligence agencies know much that they won’t share with the public. That should tell people something. The missing pages to that report about the 9/11 attackers should tell people something.

        For example.

        The authors of this piece are not doing nothing. They wrote it….

      • Arby
        November 14, 2015, 3:20 pm

        “Not a great idea to connect the horrible Paris situation with the Israel/Palestinian conflict.
        They are entirely different situations.” That’s incorrect.

      • Kay24
        November 14, 2015, 6:41 pm

        How delusional some are. How quickly they have (gleefully) come to the conclusion that “Europe has now realized what terrorism is. However much you spin it, however much you try to equate a brutal, decades long, occupation by a nation that calls itself “a democracy” (but accused of apartheid policies), this entire tragedy in Paris is nothing but a bunch of loony terrorists, who think they can terrorize the world by their despicable acts.

        You have conveniently FAILED to address the damn occupation and the land grabs, and the MAIN reasons you have to deal with occupied people reacting badly.

        Yes, some people in the world refer to the occupier as a terrorist state, maybe that is where the similarity is, where the violence is concerned.

        Looks like you are totally uninformed (perhaps you should change your sources)
        EVEN THE SUPREME COURT OF ISRAEL HAS RULE THAT PALESTINIAN LANDS ARE OCCUPIED.
        Get up to speed or your comments will lame.

        Wikipedia:

        “Occupied[edit]
        In their decisions on the separation barrier, the International Court of Justice and Supreme Court of Israel have both ruled that the West Bank is occupied.[4][5] The US State Department also considers the West Bank and Gaza Strip occupied.[4]

        The ICJ outlined the legal rationale for the supporters of this view in its advisory opinion of 9 July 2004.

        Hey, even the US considers these territories OCCUPIED!!

        Looks like hasbara has unleashed it’s paid trolls to spew lies again. The comparisons are laughable. Bad try. Not occupied indeed. Heh.

      • Mooser
        November 14, 2015, 7:14 pm

        “Apparently labeling our food was not good enough…”

        What’s the problem? Is there something you’re ashamed of so the food can’t be labelled? Everybody else has their food labelled by country of origin, or uh, “place” of origin. Who wants to buy food from an out-law’s hide-out?

      • Mooser
        November 14, 2015, 7:26 pm

        “Perhaps because it is advanced only as a thin veneer over your patent anti-Semitism”

        But that “thin veneer” makes it shine like the dickens! And protects the finish. Much better than “coded anti-Semitism” or that icky “latent anti-semitism” that becomes dull and faded after a few wearings.

      • zaid
        November 14, 2015, 9:24 pm

        “Perhaps because it is advanced only as a thin veneer over your patent anti-Semitism”

        Jews are not Semites .

        “What “Palestinian land” has Israel been occupying for over 60 years exactly”

        All of Palestine.There are no legitimacy for a Jewish state in any parts of Palestine.
        It belongs to the Palestinians (Semites) exclusively.

        “Apparently labeling our food was not good enough… Keep trying to appease these animals and see where it gets you.”

        animals!

        moderators!!

        This pig needs discipline.

      • RoHa
        November 15, 2015, 1:51 am

        ‘How delusional some are. How quickly they have (gleefully) come to the conclusion that “Europe has now realized what terrorism is.”‘

        So the IRA, ETA, EOKA, Red Brigade, Red Army Faction, and whatever else the Gladio programme threw up, were not enough. Europeans are slow learners, it seems.

    • italian ex-pat
      November 14, 2015, 5:27 pm

      @Herchel

      I was wondering how long before someone used the Paris terrorist attack to make a nonsensical connection to the ‘savagery’ Israel faces everyday. Or are the Islamics – if that’ s who they are – behind the Paris attacks victims of illegal French occupation?

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 5:28 am

        @ italian ex-pat
        Twitter is alive with the sound of hasbara bots linking the Paris attacks with the savagery Israel faces daily.

    • Mooser
      November 14, 2015, 5:55 pm

      “In the meantime, the world is reminded of the savagery Israel faces…”

      Yeah I read about that. The marauding Army of Palestine conquered occupied and subjugated the entire Middle East, and nearly to the Gates of Vienna! They are still a highly martial people, and military officers are accorded special privileges. Boys all serve, and the brightest and most capable destined for Officer’s Training.

      • Kay24
        November 14, 2015, 6:48 pm

        Lol Mooser, you can see how ridiculous these comments are. I have seen the same crap being spewed, the same words recycled words, for years, and years. I wonder why Mondoweiss is even passing these idiotic comments. It is bringing the standards of this website down.

      • Mooser
        November 14, 2015, 9:47 pm

        “you can see how ridiculous”

        They seem to have a very strange idea that they can order people what to see and not see, and tell them how to feel about it, and how to express it. That won’t work.

      • Kay24
        November 15, 2015, 5:19 am

        Well, it seems to work in zioland. They all think Netanyahu is a sane leader, despite the entire world thinking he is loony tunes.

    • Kris
      November 14, 2015, 6:01 pm

      @Herchel: “In the meantime, the world is reminded of the savagery Israel faces and you defend every day.”

      Israel incites and elicits violence by its own actions, and always has. As do the U.S. and its allies.

      We, the West, overthrew Saddam by violence. We overthrew Gaddafi by violence. We are trying to overthrow Assad by violence. Harsh regimes all — but far less draconian than our Saudi allies, and other tyrannies around the world. What has been the result of these interventions? A hell on earth, one that grows wider and more virulent year after year.

      Without the American crime of aggressive war against Iraq — which, by the measurements used by Western governments themselves, left more than a million innocent people dead — there would be no ISIS, no “Al Qaeda in Iraq.” Without the Saudi and Western funding and arming of an amalgam of extremist Sunni groups across the Middle East, used as proxies to strike at Iran and its allies, there would be no ISIS. Let’s go back further. Without the direct, extensive and deliberate creation by the United States and its Saudi ally of a world-wide movement of armed Sunni extremists during the Carter and Reagan administrations, there would have been no “War on Terror” — and no terrorist attacks in Paris tonight.

      Again, let’s be as clear as possible: the hellish world we live in today is the result of deliberate policies and actions undertaken by the United States and its allies over the past decades. It was Washington that led and/or supported the quashing of secular political resistance across the Middle East, in order to bring recalcitrant leaders like Nasser to heel and to back corrupt and brutal dictators who would advance the US agenda of political domination and resource exploitation.

      The open history of the last half-century is very clear in this regard. Going all the way back to the overthrow of the democratic government of Iran in 1953, the United States has deliberately and consciously pushed the most extreme sectarian groups in order to undermine a broader-based secular resistance to its domination agenda.

      Why bring up this “ancient history” when fresh blood is running in the streets of Paris? Because that blood would not be running if not for this ancient history; and because the reaction to this latest reverberations of Washington’s decades-long, bipartisan cultivation of religious extremism will certainly be more bloodshed, more repression and more violent intervention. Which will, in turn, inevitably, produce yet more atrocities and upheaval as we are seeing in Paris tonight.

      I write in despair. Despair of course at the depravity displayed by the murderers of innocents in Paris tonight; but an even deeper despair at the depravity of the egregious murderers who have brought us to this ghastly place in human history: those gilded figures who have strode the halls of power for decades in the high chambers of the West, killing innocent people by the hundreds of thousands, crushing secular opposition to their favored dictators — and again, again and again — supporting, funding and arming some of the most virulent sectarians on earth. http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/the-age-of-despair-reaping-the-whirlwind-of-western-support-for-extremist-violence/

      As we mourn the victims of blow-back in France, we should also be mourning the prejudice and racism in Israel, Europe, and the U.S. that prevent us from caring at all when the lives of Muslims or dark-skinned people are destroyed.

      We should be pouring ashes on our heads and ripping our clothes. We should be repenting. We should be seeking justice and reconciliation. Instead, we are already planning more violence, more deaths and more suffering for more innocent victims.

      The Rev. Jeremiah Wright reminded us that we must judge ourselves before we judge others:

      I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday, did anybody else see him or hear him? He was on Fox News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the Fox News commentators to no end. He pointed out, did you see him John, a white man, and he pointed out, an ambassador, that what Malcolm X said when he got silenced by Elijah Mohammed was in fact true, America’s chickens…are coming home to roost.

      We took this country by terror, away from the Sioux, the Apache, the Arowak, the Comanche, the Arapahoe, the Navajo. Terrorism. We took Africans from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.

      We bombed Granada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel. We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenagers and toddlers, pregnant mothers, and hardworking fathers.

      We bombed Qaddafi’s home and killed his child. “Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against a rock.” We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to payback for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hardworking people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they would never get back home.

      We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.

      Kids playing in the playground, mothers picking up children from school, civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.

      We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and Black South Africans and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.

      “And we never batted an eye.” Dr. Wright spoke the truth, but, as we know from the Old Testament, no one wants to listen when prophets speak harsh truths.

      • Donald
        November 14, 2015, 9:05 pm

        I had a few weeks where I had hopes for Obama, knowing he had gone to church where the pastor preached that sermon. But that turned out not to mean anything.

      • Marnie
        November 15, 2015, 3:41 am

        @Kris – Dr. Wright is a truth teller, which is why he was so callously attacked. Thanks for your post –

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 5:44 am

        You forgot Dresden. And the ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Germans.

    • talknic
      November 14, 2015, 7:35 pm

      @ Herchel demonstrates how to create a steaming wad of bullsh*t out of thin air

      //Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points//

      “Your entire presence Is fashioned to score political points when Arabs are killed. When arabs do the killing, suddenly it’s time grieve and leave politics out of it. I’m sure CAIR and other trustworthy organizations will have your talking points out on this shortly. In the meantime, the world is reminded of the savagery Israel faces and you defend every day”

      Amazing!

      • Kay24
        November 14, 2015, 7:51 pm

        It seems they are desperate to link themselves to what the French are going through today, to justify their occupation, land theft, and human rights violations. Bull sh** is the word.

        Pathetic.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 14, 2015, 9:12 pm

        check this out. http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Far-right-settler-rabbi-Paris-attacks-are-payback-for-the-Holocaust-433084#article=6020RjNFQjFFREJCQzlBNDIyQjU2MUM0QjRBMzdEOUY2MTY=

        baby-killer advocate – author&rabbi extremist dov lior thinks: Paris attacks are payback for the Holocaust

        “The wicked ones in blood-soaked Europe deserve it for what they did to our people 70 years ago,” Lior said.

      • Mooser
        November 14, 2015, 10:48 pm

        “baby-killer advocate – author&rabbi extremist dov lior thinks: Paris attacks are payback for the Holocaust “The wicked ones in blood-soaked Europe deserve it for what they did to our people 70 years ago,” Lior said.”

        Hey! Hey! What about the Mufti? I mean, is that fair, exhumed and propped up for Netanyahoo, only to be re-interred in a few weeks?

    • lyn117
      November 14, 2015, 11:08 pm

      Let see, a lot of people on Mondoweiss make the [political] point that Israel should stop killing innocent people in its efforts to grab land and deprive Palestinians of human rights.

      Herchel’s political point, he objects to the “savagery” people use defending their land or rights? He supports attacking innocent people in order to grab their land and force them off it?

      In it’s politics, ISIS is much more like Israel, in that ISIS is also forcing people of religions it doesn’t like from land they take over. If you look only at the tactics used by Palestinians and ISIS and the labels attached to them then you might see a similarity, just as France uses bombs from fighter jets, a similar tactic to Israel’s. I think France should probably stay out of Syria, I have little trust in their motives, even if I have less trust in those of ISIS. Israel’s fighter jets target and kill far more innocent people than the terrorists in France.

      • Citizen
        November 15, 2015, 5:50 am

        @ lyn117
        I’m sure ISIS has noticed Israel’s jets bombing in Syria. Either they intentionally do nothing about it (for what reason?), or they just think, even though France is much away, it’s an easier target than Israel to infiltrate? I wonder if ISIS is trying to reach the Palestinians in Israel or the WB/Gaza? Anybody know?

    • Marnie
      November 15, 2015, 2:26 am

      “In the meantime, the world is reminded of the savagery Israel faces and you defend every day. ”

      Step on the brakes Herchel, your way over your limit on “poor me”. While you piss and moan, the world is silent WRT the everyday savagery Palestinians face at the hands of the IOF and the settlers (eerily looking a lot like the SA). Now a terrorist attack in Paris has hasbara central foaming at the mouth with glee(?); it certainly isn’t sorrow, not with the constant demands to think about Israel, which has absolutely nothing to do with the attacks in Paris. They were not about the zionist state or Parisian Jews. NOTHING AT ALL. But you’re not the only one who chose to score points instead of police your mouth:

      From +972 by Lisa Goldman

      Yesterday Dan Margalit, a veteran and well known Israeli journalist, wrote a tweet that gained him a shellacking of scorn from people who responded to him in Hebrew. In light of the EU’s decision to label products from Israeli settlements, and while the bodies in Paris were still being counted, Margalit wrote:

      In order to save lives we should send medical aid and food from the settlements for the victims of Arab terror in Paris. And we should provide them with shelter and rehabilitation services in Ariel.

      Ariel is a large West Bank settlement with a population of about 19,000.

      What is one to make of the extreme narcissism, provincialism and mean spiritedness in Margalit’s tweet? The French don’t need Israel’s help. There is no rehabilitation facility in Ariel.

      Margalit has been a journalist for decades. He was once widely considered — and perhaps by many still is — a respected political analyst. But he seems to have drunk the paranoid, self righteous, “Fortress Israel” Kool-Aid that Netanyahu pours so liberally in all of his public statements.

      In his follow up tweet, Margalit wrote: “Jews of France, the Land of Israel is calling you.”

      http://972mag.com/prominent-israeli-journalist-tweets-opportunism-at-pariss-pain/113899/

    • diasp0ra
      November 15, 2015, 7:16 am

      You know, in 100 years after Israel is long gone and Zionism is viewed just as terribly as the white South African government was, psychologists are going to have a field day analyzing the Israeli psyche and how the biggest and most powerful aggressor in the area obsessed over how much a victim it was when it was in fact the biggest bully.

  13. Egbert
    November 14, 2015, 2:17 pm

    From The Times of Israel.

    “Just Friday morning, security officials in France’s Jewish community were informed of the very real possibility of an impending large terrorist attack in the country, according to Jonathan-Simon Sellem, a freelance journalist and a representative of French citizens in Israel.

    The Jewish community, already on high alert ahead of several planned high-profile events Sunday, had been told that after several minor attacks in France this month, a large terrorist event was thought to be on the horizon.

    Security experts in France, Sellem told The Times of Israel from Paris on Saturday morning, are now comparing the country’s situation with that of Israel.”

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-france-defense-experts-see-parallels-to-israel/

    It’s all good for Israel as Europe now knows what terrorists do in Israel. That says it all.

    • Kay24
      November 14, 2015, 2:54 pm

      “It’s all good for Israel as Europe now knows what terrorists do in Israel. That says it all. ”

      Wow the selfless compassion for the Europeans shines through!

      Don’t worry the Europeans know all about those terrorists – that is why they decided to label all good that come from those areas.

      It is also good that the US says that is okay:

      “WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration said Thursday it doesn’t consider a new European Union rule outlawing “Made in Israel” tags on goods from the West Bank as a boycott of the Jewish state, only a technical guideline for consumers.” USN

  14. Jackdaw
    November 14, 2015, 2:49 pm

    Good job guys.
    You were able to restrain yourselves, and you waited till the second sentence before dropping the ‘Israel bomb’.

    Keep up the good work!

    • oldgeezer
      November 14, 2015, 3:00 pm

      @jackdaw

      Which do you have the most problems with? Counting or the difference between a sentence and a paragraph?

      There is no Israel bomb in the article.

      My heart goes out to the victims, survivors and familes. Needless deaths and injuries.

      • ckg
        November 14, 2015, 5:00 pm

        Crows are better at squawking than reading.

  15. mijj
    November 14, 2015, 5:12 pm

    Yes. I grieve. It’s awful when Westernenrs are subject to attrocities. But, when do we have days to grieve for the people of Syria, Lybia and Iraq?

  16. JLewisDickerson
    November 14, 2015, 5:49 pm

    RE: “Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points”

    NONETHELESS:

    “How Saudi/Gulf Money Fuels Terror” | By Daniel Lazare | Consortiumnews.com | November 14, 2015
    Exclusive: With the death toll in the Paris terror attacks still rising, French President Hollande is condemning an “act of war” by the Islamic State, but the underlying reality is that France’s rich friends in the Persian Gulf are key accomplices in the mayhem, writes Daniel Lazare.
    LINK – https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/14/how-saudigulf-money-fuels-terror/

    “Can Obama Level with the People?” | By Robert Parry | Consortiumnews.com | November 14, 2015
    Exclusive: Another terrorist outrage – this one in Paris – is spreading fear and fury across Europe. Which makes this a key moment for President Obama to finally level with the American people about how U.S. “allies” — such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar — have been aiding and abetting extremists, reports Robert Parry.
    LINK – https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/14/can-obama-level-with-the-people/

    • Les
      November 14, 2015, 5:56 pm

      Further on Parry writes:

      Will Obama explain how U.S. “allies” in the Middle East, such as Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar, have been fueling this Sunni extremism for years? Will he dare recognize that Israeli repression of the Palestinians is a major contributing factor, too?

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 7:38 am

      P.S. A COUPLE OF RELATED BOOKS:
      Devil’s Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam (American Empire Project)
      Hardcover – October 13, 2005
      by Robert Dreyfuss (Author)
      The first complete account of America’s mostdangerous foreign policy miscalculation: sixty years of support for Islamic fundamentalism.
      Backed by extensive archival research and interviews with dozens of policy makers and CIA, Pentagon, and foreign service officials, Robert Dreyfuss argues that this largely hidden relationship is greatly to blame for the global explosion of terrorism. He follows the trail of American collusion from support for the Muslim Brotherhood in 1950s Egypt to links with Khomeini and Afghani jihadists to cooperation with Hamas and Saudi Wahhabism. Dreyfuss also uncovers long-standing ties between radical Islamists and the leading banks of the West. The result is as tragic as it is paradoxical: originally deployed as pawns to foil nationalism and communism, extremist mullahs and ayatollahs now dominate the region, thundering against freedom of thought, science, women’s rights, secularism–and their former patron.
      Wide-ranging and deeply informed, Devil’s Game reveals a history of double-dealing, cynical exploitation, and humiliating embarrassment. What emerges is a pattern that, far from furthering democracy or security, ensures a future of blunders and blowback.
      LINK – http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Game-Unleash-Fundamentalist-American/dp/0805076522

      A Mosque in Munich: Nazis, the CIA, and the Rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in the West
      Hardcover – May 4, 2010
      by Ian Johnson (Author)
      In the wake of the news that the 9/11 hijackers had lived in Europe, journalist Ian Johnson wondered how such a radical group could sink roots into Western soil. Most accounts reached back twenty years, to U.S. support of Islamist fighters in Afghanistan. But Johnson dug deeper, to the start of the Cold War, uncovering the untold story of a group of ex-Soviet Muslims who had defected to Germany during World War II. There, they had been fashioned into a well-oiled anti-Soviet propaganda machine. As that war ended and the Cold War began, West German and U.S. intelligence agents vied for control of this influential group, and at the center of the covert tug of war was a quiet mosque in Munich—radical Islam’s first beachhead in the West.
      Culled from an array of sources, including newly declassified documents, A Mosque in Munich interweaves the stories of several key players: a Nazi scholar turned postwar spymaster; key Muslim leaders across the globe, including members of the Muslim Brotherhood; and naive CIA men eager to fight communism with a new weapon, Islam. A rare ground-level look at Cold War spying and a revelatory account of the West’s first, disastrous encounter with radical Islam, A Mosque in Munich is as captivating as it is crucial to our understanding the mistakes we are still making in our relationship with Islamists today.
      LINK – http://www.amazon.com/Mosque-Munich-Nazis-Muslim-Brotherhood/dp/0151014183

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 8:14 am

      P.P.S. ALSO SEE: “The Age of Despair: Reaping the Whirlwind of Western Support for Extremist Violence” | by Chris Floyd | Counterpunch.org | November 13, 2015

      [EXCERPT] We, the West, overthrew Saddam by violence. We overthrew Gaddafi by violence. We are trying to overthrow Assad by violence. Harsh regimes all — but far less draconian than our Saudi allies, and other tyrannies around the world. What has been the result of these interventions? A hell on earth, one that grows wider and more virulent year after year.

      Without the American crime of aggressive war against Iraq — which, by the measurements used by Western governments themselves, left more than a million innocent people dead — there would be no ISIS, no “Al Qaeda in Iraq.” Without the Saudi and Western funding and arming of an amalgam of extremist Sunni groups across the Middle East, used as proxies to strike at Iran and its allies, there would be no ISIS. Let’s go back further. Without the direct, extensive and deliberate creation by the United States and its Saudi ally of a world-wide movement of armed Sunni extremists during the Carter and Reagan administrations, there would have been no “War on Terror” — and no terrorist attacks in Paris tonight.

      Again, let’s be as clear as possible: the hellish world we live in today is the result of deliberate policies and actions undertaken by the United States and its allies over the past decades. It was Washington that led and/or supported the quashing of secular political resistance across the Middle East, in order to bring recalcitrant leaders like Nasser to heel and to back corrupt and brutal dictators who would advance the US agenda of political domination and resource exploitation.

      The open history of the last half-century is very clear in this regard. Going all the way back to the overthrow of the democratic government of Iran in 1953, the United States has deliberately and consciously pushed the most extreme sectarian groups in order to undermine a broader-based secular resistance to its domination agenda.

      Why bring up this “ancient history” when fresh blood is running in the streets of Paris? Because that blood would not be running if not for this ancient history; and because the reaction to this latest reverberations of Washington’s decades-long, bipartisan cultivation of religious extremism will certainly be more bloodshed, more repression and more violent intervention. Which will, in turn, inevitably, produce yet more atrocities and upheaval as we are seeing in Paris tonight. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/the-age-of-despair-reaping-the-whirlwind-of-western-support-for-extremist-violence/

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 8:47 am

      P.P.P.S. AND SEE: “The Saudi Prince and Two Tons of Narcotics” | by Andre Vltchek | Counterpunch.org | November 13, 2015

      [EXCERPTS] Saudi Prince Abdulmohsen bin Walid bin Abdulmohsen bin Abdulaziz Al Saud was obviously not fully satisfied with his life. A private jet, several luxury cars and a mansion were not enough to make him feel a truly fulfilled and respected member of the Gulf ruling “elites”. Others had more, like those double-decker Airbus 380’s, or tremendous duplexes overlooking Karbala.

      Perhaps that was the reason why he tried so hard to catch up, by smuggling from Beirut, Lebanon to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (KSA), some 40 suitcases and boxes neatly packed with Captagon pills, with some cocaine thrown in for good measure.

      I say “perhaps”, because there are, of course, some other options and possibilities…

      In fact there are many different first-hand takes on every aspect and detail of the story.

      According to various reports, a simple and honest security guard at Beirut’s Rafik Hariri International Airport stopped the Prince and asked him to open his suitcases.

      “I have a diplomatic passport!” protested the Prince.

      “You do, but your luggage doesn’t”, explained the guard, phlegmatically. . .

      . . . A prince of one of the closest allies of the West would surely not break the law in such an outrageously extreme manner. Unless…

      Unless he knew something, was told something, or was on a mission! . . .

      . . . While several Western mass media outlets commented abstractly that Captagon pills are mainly used in the Gulf and in Syria, local sources concretely confirmed that it is a drug of choice for so-called “Syrian rebels”, including the ISIS. The India Times ran a story with the title: “Saudi Prince Caught With 2 Tons Of ISIS’s Favorite Drugs In Lebanon”. . .

      . . . This is all a very big game. And captagon is not just some recreational drug, intended for underground nightclubs in the Gulf, and for notorious private orgies in Saudi Arabia. It is, as I was told by local experts, a “drug that makes one extremely brutal; a drug, which destroys all fear”. It is a “combat narcotic”, which has been given mainly to the ISIS fighters.

      “It could have been destined for Iraq and the ISIS cells there, but most likely the Saudi Prince was bringing it for the Saudi allies in Yemen” I was told on the basis of anonymity. “Or both… Most likely: both.”

      It was explained that those countless pills of captagon were produced and purchased in or around the town of Aarsal, in northern Lebanon on the Syrian border, an area controlled by ISIS . . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/13/the-saudi-prince-and-2-tons-of-narcotics/

      • Marnie
        November 15, 2015, 11:57 pm

        I could see captagon being fed to any army to make them brutal and destroy all fear. I think the IOF is getting a version that makes them brutal only as they are scared to death of little children.

      • JLewisDickerson
        November 16, 2015, 2:01 pm

        RE: “I could see captagon being fed to any army to make them brutal and destroy all fear.” ~ Marnie

        MY REPLY: The U.S. military distributes amphetamine “go-pills” to some of its “grunts” (Air Force pilots in particular).*
        It is also likely that the Paris terrorists were high on Captagon or something similar. Perhaps they they were even high on Captagon that the Saudis had provided to ISIS in Syria! ! !

        * SEE: “Flying High” | by Linda Head | Counterpunch.org | January 23, 2003

        [EXCERPTS] The expression “flying high” takes on a whole new meaning when viewed in the light of the admission by the U.S. Air Force that its combat pilots regularly consume uppers and downers with its blessing. In fact, American bomber pilots are encouraged to take amphetamines, and upon return to base are sometimes offered tranquilizers to help them sleep.

        This shocking announcement – apparently a longtime open secret in the military – came to the notice of the public during an investigation of two U.S. F16 pilots responsible for dropping a laser-guided, 500lb bomb on a Canadian unit in Afghanistan. Four Canadian servicemen lost their lives as a result.

        Canada was outraged and demanded that the two American airmen face a justice. As part of the enquiry emerged the disturbing news that combat pilots in the U.S. military are encouraged by their own commanders to regularly pop amphetamine tablets. Once nicknamed “uppers” or “speed”, amphetamines are now known as “go-pills” in the U.S. Air Force.

        An Air Force surgeon, a guest on CNN’s Q&A programme, had no hesitation in extolling the virtues of the innocuous sounding “go-pills” during combat missions. He explained that they often save the lives of exhausted pilots, and that fatigue kills. He also admitted that pilots are allowed to self-medicate and that reluctance by airmen to take such stimulants could mean that they would be excluded from a particular mission.

        But do they increase the risk of “collateral damage” (a callous expression) at the hands of hyped up young men and women with their fingers on the button?

        According to the makers of Dexedrine GlaxoSmithKline, they certainly do. It warns that the product may impair the patient’s ability to engage in potentially hazardous activity such as operating machines and vehicles.

        The common side effects of Dexedrine may include, nervousness, insomnia, hostility, and addiction as well as feelings of suspicion and paranoia. The worst is known as “amphetamine psychosis”, which causes hallucinations and delusion.

        One of the pilots under current investigation took 5mgs two hours before the mission, while the other popped 10mgs just one hour prior to take-off. Could the pilots have been hallucinating or paranoid when they believed that the Canadians were firing at them? The pilots recently sat through the first session of an official hearing so, presumably, we will shortly find out.

        But the taking of amphetamines isn’t just limited to pilots in Afghanistan. The surgeon said that combat pilots in the U.S. military have been popping pills for the past 60 years. This, according to my reckoning, takes us way back to World War II. . .

        . . . There has also been a revelation that the use of “go-pills” is common among the members of other branches of the U.S. military too, which could translate into tens of thousands of “America’s finest” wandering around the towns and cities of their host countries in a heightened and volatile state. Add to this the mostly hostile feelings of those countries nationals concerning an attack on their fellow Arabs, along with the growing anti-Americanism on the street, and the picture isn’t pretty.

        Perhaps more importantly what could this mean for the Iraqi people who still recall with enormous sadness Al-Amiriya bunker in Baghdad being struck by an American bomb which killed more than 300 civilians, mostly women and children?

        This may have been due to faulty instructions from their command and control centre but even so, how can we be confident that crews “up high” in more ways than one won’t mistake Iraqi civilian targets for military ones the next time around?

        We will probably never know the truth about the convoy of Kosovo refugees, which came under fire by an American F16 pilot, even though an RAF colleague had warned him that it was a civilian convoy. The bombing of the Chinese Embassy during that conflict remains another perplexing mystery. Few bought the ‘out-of-date-plans’ explanation, least of all the Chinese. . .

        . . . The philosopher Reinhold Niebuhr said: “We (Americans) have been so deluded by the concept of our innocence that we are ill prepared to deal with the temptations of power which now assail us.”

        Feelings of empowerment in the hands of those with deadly weapons is a heady brew, but power mixed with chemically induced false bravado is nothing short of a deadly and frightening cocktail.

        ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/01/23/flying-high/

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 12:14 pm

      P.P.P.P.S. I WOULD BE REMISS NOT TO GIVE THE BRITISH THEIR DUE (E.G., FOSTERING ANIMOSITIES BETWEEN INDIA’S HINDUS AND MUSLIMS):

      Madhusree Mukerjee & Danny Haiphong – Episode 23 | Interviewed by Eric Draitser | Counterpunch-radio-podcasts | by November 11, 2015
      [A great interview (as usual) by Eric Draitser who does the Counterpunch’s weekly podcast and also writes excellent commentaries for Counterpunch.org.]

      This week Eric welcomes author and journalist Madhusree Mukerjee to the program to discuss her groundbreaking 2010 book Churchill’s Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India During World War II [quite a contrast to the fawning Michael Beschloss – J.L.D.] . Madhusree discusses her personal and ideological motivations for writing the book, as well as exploring what the Bengal famine [PHOTOS (source – https://goo.gl/APco37) ~ J.L.D.] and British imperial policy say about the nature of imperialism and colonialism in India and throughout the world. Eric and Madhusree also bring the issues forward our time by probing how the same agricultural policies, engendered by capitalism and profit, are helping to exacerbate poverty, dispossession, and environmental degradation today. Eric and Madhusree don’t shy away from debating the legacies of Gandhi and Subhas Chandra Bose, and the role of India and the emerging non-Western powers today.
      In the second part of the show, Eric is joined by Danny Haiphong, a Boston-based political activist and columnist for Black Agenda Report [an excellent website ~ J.L.D.], to discuss his recent piece on self-determination and political movement-building in the US and the Western world. The conversation touches on current trends, as well as historical exemplars such as the Black Panther Party. Eric and Danny also examine what revolutionary movement-building requires, and what it will look like given the current political and economic climate. All this and much more on this week’s CounterPunch Radio.
      Musical Interludes: “Jara cafe te more te bose acho” by Unknown & “Sove Peyi Mwen” by Freedom
      Intro and Outtro: “Freight Train Rollin'” by David Vest

      PODCAST – http://store.counterpunch.org/madhusree-mukerjee-danny-haiphong-episode-23/

      P.S. ■ Churchill’s Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India During World War II | By Madhusree Mukerjee | Basic Books; First Edition edition (August 10, 2010)

      A dogged enemy of Hitler, resolute ally of the Americans, and inspiring leader through World War II, Winston Churchill is venerated as one of the truly great statesmen of the last century. But while he has been widely extolled for his achievements, parts of Churchill’s record have gone woefully unexamined.
      As journalist Madhusree Mukerjee reveals, at the same time that Churchill brilliantly opposed the barbarism of the Nazis, he governed India with a fierce resolve to crush its freedom movement and a profound contempt for native lives. A series of Churchill’s decisions between 1940 and 1944 directly and inevitably led to the deaths of some three million Indians. The streets of eastern Indian cities were lined with corpses, yet instead of sending emergency food shipments Churchill used the wheat and ships at his disposal to build stockpiles for feeding postwar Britain and Europe.
      Combining meticulous research with a vivid narrative, and riveting accounts of personality and policy clashes within and without the British War Cabinet, Churchill’s Secret War places this oft-overlooked tragedy into the larger context of World War II, India’s fight for freedom, and Churchill’s enduring legacy. Winston Churchill may have found victory in Europe, but, as this groundbreaking historical investigation reveals, his mismanagement—facilitated by dubious advice from scientist and eugenicist Lord Cherwell—devastated India and set the stage for the massive bloodletting that accompanied independence.

      LINK – http://www.amazon.com/dp/0465002013

      P.P.S. Bengal famine of 1943 – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 17, 2015, 11:00 am

      P.P.P.P.P.S. AND SEE: “Secret Affairs: Britain’s Collusion with Radical Islam”, By Mark Curtis, Reviewed by Kim Sengupta, The Independent, 7/30/10

      [EXCERPTS] For years, violent Islamist groups were allowed to settle in Britain, using the country as a base to carry out attacks abroad. This was tolerated in the belief that they would not bomb the country where they lived and that, as long as they are here, the security service would be able to infiltrate them. At the same time mosque after mosque was taken over through intimidation by the fundamentalists. Police and others in authority refused pleas from moderate Muslims with the excuse that they did not want to interfere.
      There was even a name for this amoral accommodation: the “covenant of security”. We now know that jihadists will indeed blow up their home country and that the security agencies signally failed to infiltrate the terrorist cells while they had the chance.
      The part played by officials in the growth of terrorism in Britain is a relatively small-scale affair compared to what went on abroad. Successive UK governments had nurtured and promoted extremists for reasons of realpolitik often at a terrible cost to the population of those countries. Mark Curtis, in his book on “Britain’s collusion with radical Islam”, charts this liaison. He points out how reactionary and violent Muslim groups were used against secular nationalists at the time of empire and continued afterwards to back UK and Western interests.
      The price for this is now being paid at home and abroad. I am writing this review in Helmand, where a few days ago I went on an operation with British and Afghan troops against insurgents whose paymasters, across the border in Pakistan, have been the beneficiaries of US and British largesse.
      Curtis points out that two of the most active Islamist commanders carrying out attacks in Afghanistan, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Jalalludin Haqqani, had particularly close contacts with the UK in the past. Hekmatyar met Margaret Thatcher in Downing Street when he was a favourite of MI6 and the CIA in the war against the Russians. Haqqani, while not the “Taliban’s overall military commander fighting the British” as Curtis says (he runs his own network parallel to the Taliban), was viewed as a highly useful tool in that conflict.
      The Western use of the Mujaheddin as proxy fighters is well documented. It resulted in the spawning of al-Qa’ida, the spread of international terrorism, and the empowering of ISI, the Pakistani secret police, who became their sponsors. Curtis examines the lesser known by-products of this jihad: the dispatch of Afghan Islamist veterans, with the connivance of Britain and the US, to the wars in the Balkans and the former Soviet republics in central Asia, and ethnic Muslim areas of China. Vast sums of money from the West’s great ally, Saudi Arabia, helped fund the Reagan administration’s clandestine war in support of repressive military juntas in Latin America while, at the same time, buttressing the aggressive Wahabi faith embraced by many terrorist groups.
      The use of hardline Islam by the West was particularly prevalent at the time of the Cold War. In many instances, however, the targets for destabilisation were not Communist regimes but leaders who had adopted left-wing policies deemed to pose a threat to Western influence and interests.
      The UK attempted to combat “virus of Arab nationalism”, after Gamal Abdel Nasser came to power in Egypt and nationalised the Suez Canal, by forging links with the Muslim Brotherhood, an organisation involved in terrorism. The nationalisation of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company by the democratically elected Iranian government of Mohammed Mossadeq led to a British-American organised coup which was facilitated by Ayatollah Seyyed Kashani, one of whose followers was the young Ruhollah Khomeini. In Indonesia, the removal of Ahmed Sukarno in another military coup by the UK-US was carried out with the help of Darul Islam. Its followers went on to massacre socialists and trade unionists.
      In each of these cases the clandestine backing of Britain and the US strengthened Islamist groups at the expense of secular bodies and moderate Muslims. These groups then went to form terrorist groups whom the West would later have to confront in the “War on Terror”. . .

      ENTIRE BOOK REVIEW – http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/secret-affairs-by-mark-curtis-2038691.html

      “Secret Affairs: Britain’s Collusion with Radical Islam” by Mark Curtis @ Amazon.com – http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Affairs-Britains-Collusion-Radical/dp/1846687640

      “WEB OF DECEIT: BRITAIN’S REAL FOREIGN POLICY: BRITAIN’S REAL ROLE IN THE WORLD” Paperback – Import, 2003
      by MARK CURTIS (Author) – http://www.amazon.com/WEB-DECEIT-BRITAINS-FOREIGN-POLICY/dp/0099448394

  17. Mayhem
    November 14, 2015, 6:55 pm

    “The threats against the Bataclan go back several years, with the venue often being a target of anti-Zionist groups. In 2007 and 2008, the theater received threats from radical groups due to its regular hosting of the conferences and galas of Jewish organizations, including one for the Israeli border police.”

    “In December 2008, during Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip, threats to the Bataclan intensified and became more specific. A video was posted on the internet showing a group of youths with their faces masked, threatening the concert hall for its support of an event in honor of the Israeli border police.”

    “Furthermore, pro-Palestinian associations have launched numerous petitions and encouraged their supporters to write to the authorities to protest the Bataclan’s hosting of pro-Israeli military events.”

    “In 2011, Le Figaro reported that Farouk Ben Abbes, a Belgian national arrested in Egypt after the terror attack on a group of French students in Cairo in February that killed 17-year-old Cécile Vannier, had confessed that he ‘was planning an attack against the Bataclan in France.’

    “In a series of arrests in May 2009, Egyptian State Security arrested seven suspects in connection with the attack on the French teens, one of whom justified possible attacks on the Bataclan on the grounds that “the owners are Jews.”

    “The Eagles of Death Metal, the band headlining at the Bataclan on the night of the deadly attacks, were criticized earlier in the year for playing a concert in Tel Aviv. Speaking to the crowd in Tel Aviv, lead singer Jesse Hughes addressed the controversy, saying: ‘I would never boycott a place like this.'”

    • ivri
      November 15, 2015, 7:49 am

      @mayhem
      If all that really played a role here then it goes to show you how much the Arab world has sacrificed in its antagonism of Israel.
      It began with a series of wars with Israel that caused huge damage to Ara countries – changing them in a fundamental manner (as e.g. with Nasser in Egypt and the loss of Lebanon first to the Palestinians and then to Hezbollah). It continued with the loss of the relationship with the US, which in turn played a role in what happened in Libya, Syria and Iraq. What is apparently taking place now (and recently) is a repetition of that in Europe as the latter will now be much more willing to join more actively this global fight.
      There will come a moment when somebody in the Arab world will ask the Big Question: Was it really worth it?

      • Kay24
        November 15, 2015, 8:49 am

        At least there is some hope in the Arab world. I highly doubt the zionists will ask themselves if the Israel’s occupation and land grabs were worth it.

    • JLewisDickerson
      November 15, 2015, 8:57 am

      RE: “In December 2008, during Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip, threats to the Bataclan intensified and became more specific. A video was posted on the internet showing a group of youths with their faces masked, threatening the concert hall for its support of an event in honor of the Israeli border police.” ~ Mayhem

      SEE: “How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas”, By Andrew Higgins, The Wall Street Journal, 01/24/09

      [EXCERPT] Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor’s bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile’s trajectory back to an “enormous, stupid mistake” made 30 years ago.
      “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.
      Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. . .
      . . . When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and ’80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank.
      “When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake,” says David Hacham, who worked in Gaza in the late 1980s and early ’90s as an Arab-affairs expert in the Israeli military. “But at the time nobody thought about the possible results.” . . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

  18. ivri
    November 14, 2015, 7:36 pm

    It is amazing how delusional people can be. The fight with Islamists is the next Big Thing – it`s the return of the Clash of Civilization with vehemence. Did you hear what any of the presidential candidates on the Republican side has just said? Are you listening to the voices from Europe – West and East?
    Combine this terror act with many in France that were recently foiled and the Charlie Hebdo one that was not with the situation in other European capitals; the inextricable link to the current Immigration crisis in Europe (one of the assailants belonged there); the continual horrible scenes from Syria and Iraq and Libya; the surging violence in the west-Bank – just to name some prominent cases – and you will see where it is all heading,.

    • Mooser
      November 14, 2015, 10:28 pm

      “The fight with Islamists is the next Big Thing”

      And you don’t want to miss out on that! The heroes of this fight will be civilization’s heroes for long time!
      So, which did you join, Army, Navy, Marines, Special Forces, Airborne Rangers? You don’t want to miss out on the next big thing!
      Of course, if you are too old to join up “Irvi”, you can always depend on the gratitude of the young people you encouraged to serve in the clash of civilizations. They’ll thank you for it. Everybody loves chickensoup-hawks.

      • ivri
        November 15, 2015, 3:53 am

        @Mooser: “you are too old to join up”
        Well, that`s what History is about – each generation has its own Big Thing. What changed though is that with our era`s speedy pace of things in major “programs” keep changing like never before. You can condense into one lifetime (if not actually living through it than still feel doing so in its shadow): there was WW2 and the Holocaust (and WW! right before that); then the USSR and the Cold War; the formation of an EU (after a millennium of wars) and only few decades later the start of its decline, and now we have this new-style conflict and warfare with the Islamists. The latter after a hesitant start is developing right in front of our eyes into this generation`s center-podium drama.
        Fascinatingly the US was and is involved, in a major role, in ALL of the abovementioned grand global conflicts and warring: fighting to thwart major assaults on the civilized world. Little question that such a mammoth contribution by just one country, in all kinds of ways, gains it a central part in mankind`s modern history.

      • Mooser
        November 15, 2015, 11:06 am

        “Fascinatingly the US was and is involved, in a major role, in ALL of the abovementioned grand global conflicts and warring: fighting to thwart major assaults on the civilized world”

        Oh, “Irvi” you are trying hard, but it is pretty obvious: You are still much too traumatized by what the US did to the Jews to even mention the horrible fate of the Jews who immigrated to America.

    • diasp0ra
      November 15, 2015, 7:34 am

      You’re the only delusional one here. Clash of civilizations? Are you for real? What is this the 1900s again?

      Your point could have merit if the biggest victims of ISIS weren’t Muslims that disagree with them. How does that fit into your simplistic West vs. East narrative?

      Would it make things easier for you to lump all people in non-existing camps?

      There is no such thing as a clash of civilizations because it presupposes that cultures/civilizations as separate isolated spheres of non-interaction. As static areas of hegemony. Which any anthropology student or Cultural studies student would tell you is the height of ignorance.

      Stop trying to frame Israel’s colonial aggression in Palestine as some sort of wider front for some weird ideological worldwide fight that is happening. It’s only wishful thinking, and it’s sad that you call people delusional while espousing the “clash of civilizations” model which has been criticized and discredited to death.

      • Donald
        November 15, 2015, 9:06 am

        He’s right about one thing though– there are a lot of Westerners who think like him and have a purely tribal sense of morality. After a massive terror attack in a Western country, people like this use it as a justification for Western war crimes.

  19. Kris
    November 14, 2015, 7:38 pm

    Lebanese ask Facebook ‘Where is our Safety Check?’

    As the death toll in Paris grew to nearly 130 with hundreds more injured, Facebook activated its “safety check” feature, an option it has used for natural disasters in the past. The feature allows users to mark themselves as “safe,” sending a notification to their friends and associates on the social media site.

    Quickly, Lebanese and others on social media began to question why this feature was not initiated in the wake of Beirut’s devastating terror attack.

    Photojournalist Amru Salahuddien wrote:

    Why didn’t facebook make a “checked in safe” button for Beirut last night? And this morning, 120 Syrians were killed by Russian fighters “who even bothers to know?”, I didn’t notice a safety check button for the people in Aleppo or Doma either..

    Maybe because the “unworthy Syrians” are being slaughtered every single day for 5 years? So what’s new.. Or maybe It’s their fault not being French or British..

    Selective humanity, disgusting..

    https://stepfeed.com/more-categories/big-news/social-media-users-question-why-beirut-doesnt-get-facebook-safety-check/#.VkfSsXuR9Mu

    • Bumblebye
      November 15, 2015, 9:05 am

      Apparently fb *is* going to make this feature more widely available – a fairly quick response to the complaint. Think there’s a piece on HuffPo.

  20. kalithea
    November 14, 2015, 8:09 pm

    First let me say this: All human life is important.

    While we grieve over the loss of French lives, let’s belatedly grieve over the Lebanese lives that were lost and grieve as well for the 224 mostly Russian lives lost on Metrojet Flight 9268. These people didn’t get buildings lit around the world in their memory or global candle light vigils, but they matter too.

    Until we start believing that we are a humanity here to make this world better for all; respecting nature and our differences and sharing without agendas the riches of the world with the less fortunate of the world then we will never have peace; we will be forever lost and removed from the path and glory that we were truly destined for.

    We all know the truth about what happened in Syria, Iraq, Libya and what is happening in Yemen. Several corrupt countries had an ulterior agenda that hastened Syria’s destruction, but here is one image, that although lacking in the three most important players: the U.S., Saudi and Israel, it speaks volumes about the truth in Syria.

    https://twitter.com/LatuffCartoons/status/665541417763123200

  21. lysias
    November 14, 2015, 9:38 pm

    The finding of a Syrian passport of someone who had passed through the Greek island of Leros is most suspicious. As was the alleged Charlie Hebdo shooters leaving behind an ID in one of their getaway cars. As was the discovery of the passport of one of the 9/11 hijackers intact in Lower Manhattan.

    I very much doubt that Friday the 13th is unlucky in Muslim countries, as Friday is the Muslim Sabbath.

    Just as I know that 911 is the emergency number only in the U.S.

    Would Muslim terrorists have chosen those dates?

    • eljay
      November 14, 2015, 9:47 pm

      || lysias: … Just as I know that 911 is the emergency number only in the U.S. ||

      And Canada. ;-)

    • a4tech
      November 15, 2015, 9:00 am

      You know, there are two camps of people’s opinion towards 911 attacks, and all subsequent major terror attacks in the Western nations. The first accepts a bulk of the official narrative explaining the events,while harboring reasonable suspicions towards the finer details. These formed about 90% of all people who cared enough to form opinions in the first place at that time.

      The rest, being more intelligent saw through the political games being played and assessed the events far more critically. These are the people who claimed the events were orchestrated by people in their own government as part of the empire-building project being undertaken as soon as the events took place. They were able to simply because they actually follow politics, and have built considerable prerequisite knowledge to assess the events without needing to wait for official information. It is not so different from what is taking place here or anywhere within the activism circles with regards to Israel and middle eastern politics.

      Here, we see exactly how Israel is formed and how it will end. We know for certain the current arrangements in the West Bank and Gaza will not last the next decade, and the Israeli state establishment is heading towards collapse. So when it actually happens, I believe we will have a drastically different view compared to official narratives that will be put out by the mainstream media with regards to the events, until a few years later when non-mainstream views start to gain hold and push back the official narrative.

  22. Steve Grover
    November 14, 2015, 10:48 pm

    The band The Eagles of Death Metal that played at Le Bataclan in Paris when many fans and the band’s merchandising manager were brutally murdered by terrorists deserve great respect.

    http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Culture/Concert-review-The-Eagles-of-Death-Metal-408838#article=6020RDIxNkZEQjk4RDIwQ0RCQTY2RjhCRjBBMDNEMTBBM0M=

    • Annie Robbins
      November 14, 2015, 11:11 pm

      what a cheap shot steve, using the deaths of innocent people to hump an anti bds article from july. phff

      • Steve Grover
        November 14, 2015, 11:26 pm

        I dunno Annie, maybe there was a reason why Le Bataclan was chosen as a target by the terrorists. The band is anti BDS and Le Bataclan has been a venue for pro-Israel events.
        The band has taken their position against Roger Waters. I don’t think this is nearly as cheap of a shot that BDSers take against Israel ad nauseam.

    • just
      November 14, 2015, 11:53 pm

      What are you trying to say in your mangled bit of gobbledygook, SG?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 3:01 am

        just, he’s trying to suggest this was an anti semetic attack. iow, jewish victimhood — natch.

        I don’t think this is nearly as cheap of a shot that BDSers take against Israel ad nauseam.

        triple yawn

      • a blah chick
        November 15, 2015, 7:50 am

        He’s just repeating an anti-BDS talking point he read on the inter-tubes. It’s hasbara 101: spread any lie, gossip or rumor until the MSM runs with it. Fox News should be picking it up in no time.

      • MHughes976
        November 15, 2015, 8:05 am

        The Wikipedia article on the Bataclan mentions that it has recently changed hands, having been owned by a Jewish businessman for decades and used for pro-Israel and Christian Zionist events. So there may have been an anti-Semitic element in the choice of target, though the purported IS statement seems more anti-Christian, talking of a sink of abomination and perversion with, as I remember, the banner of the Cross flying over it. To me the propaganda target seems more secular, the colorful youth culture of France.

      • John O
        November 15, 2015, 8:30 am

        @MH

        Interesting, but I suspect the attack on Bataclan was just opportunistic, and that the main target was the France-Germany football match, attended by President Hollande. Apparently, one of the three bombers there panicked when a security guard started to frisk him at the gate. Had they all got into the stadium, the carnage would have been truly awful. The Bataclan, packed with people at a gig by a fairly obscure cult band, like the cafes and bars also attacked, was an ideal additional soft target. I could be completely wrong, of course.

      • eljay
        November 15, 2015, 9:36 am

        || Annie Robbins: just, he’s trying to suggest this was an anti semetic attack. iow, jewish victimhood — natch. ||

        It really didn’t very long at all for hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists to co-opt the Paris attacks as justification for Jewish supremacism in/and a supremacist “Jewish State”.

        Typically disgusting…but not at all surprising.

      • MHughes976
        November 15, 2015, 12:41 pm

        Yes, John O, I think that’s quite convincing. A stampede at the stadium would have been much worse even that what actually happened, a terrorist version of Hillsborough. The security people at the stadium should take some credit. The other places may have been soft targets that just happened to be available.

      • Mayhem
        November 15, 2015, 9:51 pm

        @eljay, you co-opt the Paris attacks as another opportunity for you to bash Israel.
        @robbins, deflects anything to do with anti-semitism, which she can’t spell; she has an obvious contempt for those who defend Jews who are under far more threat in Europe than Muslims from Muslim maniacs .
        The simple fact of the matter is that Muslim apologists and their left-wing collaborators refuse to recognise that Jews are a prime target of Muslim terrorists, just for being Jews.
        Some of those not blinded by their politically absurd agendas have seen connections between the Bataclan and the pro-Israel activities that have gone on there over the years. This link supporting this suggestion has been also reported in the French media.
        True or not, one thing that is true is that the constant denial to acknowledge rampant Muslim anti-semitism and the concomitant trenchant views that blame the West saying it is getting its just desserts for colonialism in the Arab world only give terrorists more justification for their sick cause.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 15, 2015, 11:04 pm

        @robbins, deflects anything to do with anti-semitism

        you’re using this as an example? re your link, this wasn’t “also” reported in the french media, it was originally reported at le point. i read that link when it first appeared (very early sat morning after the attack), it was picked up by some press in israel later. there were over 150 dead. if this is your example of me deflecting allegations of anti semitism color me guilty. if this is your example of me deflecting anything having to do with anti-semitism, you’ve failed miserably because this attack had nothing to do w/anti semitism. and i’ve got almost 600 references to anti semitism in my archives using your exact spelling. about half w/the hyphen and 1/2 not. so if i can’t spell it neither can you!

      • RoHa
        November 16, 2015, 12:31 am
      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 12:49 am

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

        Antisemitism (also spelled anti-Semitism or anti-semitism)

        either way, punctuation, capitalization, and hyphenation have different meanings than misspelling, which connotes the use of incorrect letters.

      • RoHa
        November 16, 2015, 1:27 am

        Well, you did write “anti semetic”, which uses incorrect letters.

        Merriam-Webster, the Cambridge Dictionary, Collins, and the Macquarie Dictionary all agree with Oxford on the spelling, capitalization, and hyphenation, so I’m a bit reluctant to accept Wikipedia as an authority.

        But I admit I haven’t checked such lesser dictionaries as Longmans or Chambers.

        (Different from.)

      • Annie Robbins
        November 16, 2015, 5:03 am

        oh. you’re right. and 4 other times over the last 6 years i’ve misspelled it too. bummer!

        http://mondoweiss.net/profile/annie?keyword=anti+semetic

      • eljay
        November 16, 2015, 7:20 am

        || Mayhem: @eljay, you co-opt the Paris attacks as another opportunity for you to bash Israel. … ||

        Except that I don’t.

        Shortly after the attacks were reported here on MW (in a prior thread), I condemned them because they were to be condemned.

        I feared that Zio-supremacists like you would use the attacks to justify Jewish supremacism in/and a supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine and related past and on-going (war) crimes…and, sure enough, you folks wasted no time doing just that.

        Congratulations.

      • RoHa
        November 16, 2015, 11:15 pm

        “and 4 other times over the last 6 years i’ve misspelled it too”

        Blame your software. That’s what I always do.

  23. Kay24
    November 15, 2015, 5:34 am

    If there was an award for the nation for the biggest ego and arrogance, that would be Israel.
    They can call it the Diva Award.

    From the inane comments you see here, they have seized this horrible tragedy, to make it all about Israel, how Europe will realize how Israel feels, and lame efforts to equate this attack with what Israel faces (human being reacting to a brutal occupation, their lands being stolen, their kids being killed/kidnapped) bulldozing homes, and destroying orchards).

    Again they insult the intelligence of the world. The world can easily see the difference between a terrorist attack and a brutal occupation that has gone on for decades. Bad try, once again by the gnats from the Israeli Ministry of (Mis)Information.

    I wonder if Nutty will elbow his way into France once again, and politicize a tragedy. Last time he tried he looked the buffoon. However, let us not dismiss the possibilities, he seems to lack the intelligence to recognize the fact he is looked upon as a lying lunatic. Hey, who knows the EU may be so impressed that they might reverse the decision to label those illegal goods that come from those illegal settlements of Israel.

    • amigo
      November 15, 2015, 9:28 am

      “If there was an award for the nation for the biggest ego and arrogance, that would be Israel.” Kay 24

      What would be the point??.

      No nation would go up against those odds.Not even the USA as they would be told to “throw the fight”, by their masters .

      But if it were to take place , the congress critters would show up and support the Israeli team st the expense of their own.

      “”Hey, who knows the EU may be so impressed that they might reverse the decision to label those illegal goods that come from those illegal settlements of Israel.”

      I am sure you meant to write, “Those Illegal Israeli settlements “.

      • echinococcus
        November 15, 2015, 9:38 am

        Amigo, Kay,

        I’m sure you both meant to write “that Illegal settlement, ‘Israel’ “.

      • Kay24
        November 15, 2015, 10:28 am

        I am sure you meant to write, “Those Illegal Israeli settlements “.

        Yes, that is what I meant, and I realize writing a comment so early in the morning is not so sharp.

        You are right about the congress, they would stand on their head if they have to, to support the rascal.

      • amigo
        November 15, 2015, 10:51 am

        “Amigo, Kay,

        I’m sure you both meant to write “that Illegal settlement, ‘Israel’”echinoccus

        What, and have some hasbarist come along and hijack the thread.Besides, they are going to lose it all anyway, so let them ” Carry on f—–g up”.

      • echinococcus
        November 15, 2015, 2:32 pm

        Amigo,

        That’s a new one. I mean, I have heard all kinds of excuses to skip the central problem in my life but that one is brand new.

      • amigo
        November 15, 2015, 4:09 pm

        “That’s a new one. I mean, I have heard all kinds of excuses to skip the central problem in my life but that one is brand new.” echinoccus

        Other than continually harp on about Israel being illegitimate (I agree) what is your answer.

        Mine is to let Israel hang itself and it will and hopefully BDS will help it in that quest.

      • Kay24
        November 15, 2015, 5:03 pm

        I agree. Israel is heading towards a precipice, but too arrogant to realize it.

        Let BDS help it speed up.

      • echinococcus
        November 15, 2015, 11:36 pm

        Expecting the nastiest and most potent political movement we have ever known to hang itself by the operation of a simple boycott and some sanctions (by governments it controls) doesn’t seem to qualify as an answer. There is a war ongoing; the effort and suffering it will take will be endless, with the risk of being pre-empted by a successful genocide.
        The least we can do is to help create awareness and educate, precisely by bloody HARPING ON IT.

  24. Bumblebye
    November 15, 2015, 9:15 am

    Interview with Michael O’Connor, survivor of Bataclan massacre (26mins), well worth listening to. Most of interview descibes events, but he is drawn out on how this affects him further in. Clearly does *not* subscribe to islamophobia, even though this is mere 24 hours after the event (and still in shock):
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0383wgl

  25. YoniFalic
    November 16, 2015, 3:51 pm

    Eventually, the French War in Algeria spread to European France. The French government should have treated it as inevitable that the Syrian War would spread to France if France became involved in Syria.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=gaXbxD7XPLAC&pg=PA111&dq=%22FLN+Attacks%22+in+France&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBjgKahUKEwjplOrN5pXJAhUERiYKHQy-Bk8#v=onepage&q=%22FLN%20Attacks%22%20in%20France&f=false

    I assume that the war in Palestine will eventually spread to the USA, for the US is even more involved in Palestine with the vicious racist genocidal E. European invaders, who are the bad guys, than France has been involved in Syria.

    Anti-Israel and anti-Zionist activists must work hard to make sure that when the violence spreads here, the average American blames Israel and the subversives that have manipulated the USA into supporting a state like Israel, which is so obviously evil like Nazi Germany.

  26. unverified__5ilf90kd
    November 17, 2015, 8:40 am

    Judith Miller did not take your advice – on Twitter she immediately used the Paris attack to trivialize the behavior of US students – probably at Mizzou and Yale in recent days.

    Judith Miller ‏@JMfreespeech Nov 13
    Now maybe the whining adolescents at our universities can concentrate on something other than their need for “safe” spaces…

    737 retweets882 lik
    Ronald J Bradley ‏@ronmemphis now
    @JMfreespeech Are you referring to those Jewish students who fear Palestinians (and their supporters) ?

  27. Theo
    November 17, 2015, 8:50 am

    All lives count and the french should remember that!

    That have been superpower is very busy to wage a war after war over the half of this globe. They were willing partners in Afghanistan and Iraq, together with GB lead the attack on Libya and destroyed that country, french agents killed Ghadaffi and blew up the Green Peace ship, they fight in Mali to preserve the uran mines they need for their nuclear powerplants and since months joined to bombing of Syria. If we want to talk about innocent lives, how many did the french kill in those wars, civilians, women and children?
    Now they bomb Al Raqqa and probably already taken more innocent lives than the 129 in Paris, although that massacker was organised and partially carried out by french and belgian citizens, in other words their own citizens. There is no proof that IS planned it, regardless of their claim to it, terrorist groups always make claims to anything to boost their image and moral.

    Now they cry WAR and want the NATO to help them, however, was that organisation founded to help a country against their own citizens? Certainly not! Or we could bomb the section of Brussels where those terrorists lived, the same for Paris, if President Hollande would like that? It is very easy to start a war, but is difficult to end it or win it.
    The germans keep a cool head and Obama is not about to send american troops to fight and die in a war that has absolutly nothing to do with us. The IS wants us to do just that, then they can turn it into a war between the christian west and the moslems. Should they succeed, then we will face a billion very angry people, so our politicians and generals should take a few days off and get a decent advice.

  28. talknic
    November 17, 2015, 8:16 pm

    A Syrian passport found next to a suicide bomber in the Paris terror attacks may have been planted, German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/paris-attacks-syrian-passport-in-paris-may-be-planted-says-german-minister-20151117-gl1jxc.html

  29. Bill R.
    November 18, 2015, 1:12 am

    Reply to Annie Robbins (no reply button on her comment) :

    sometimes western powers send spies and agitators to ferment the overthrow of regimes they do not support.

    Either there’s a typo or your comment doesn’t make much sense. Of course Western powers often plot to overthrow regimes they do NOT support, in my comment you’re replying to I said it doesn’t make sense for Western powers to try to overthrew regimes they DO support. Thank you for your link to this documentary on CIA covert operations, but if you think I’m not already aware of such things (as most people who post here probably are) then you’re the one who has “naive opinions”.

    and, it’s also advantageous to have provocateurs embedded at events where you do support the leaders because these provocateurs are used to incite the crowd which in turn provides a justification for authorities to crack down on demonstrators. for example, the protest at the republican convention link to commondreams.org. there are videos of israeli infiltrators in disguise inciting violence at protests. this is not unusual. in fact, it’s been done throughout history. they even have a name for them. they are called “Agent provocateur” or google “false flag” operations. this stuff doesn’t just go in in hollywood movies.

    This part is puzzling. Has anybody here disputed that agent provocateurs exist? What’s being disputed is the claim that the Arab Spring is a plot by Western countries to overthrow regimes (most of whom they happened to support). Not only is this conspiracy theory nonsensical, it’s insulting to Arabs as it denies them any agency. They can’t rise up against dictatorships of their own volition so it has to be a Western plot.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 18, 2015, 4:57 am

      What’s being disputed is the claim that the Arab Spring is a plot by Western countries to overthrow regimes

      au contraire, what’s being discussed (between the 2 of us) is specific allegations you made.

      Of course Western powers often plot to overthrow regimes they do NOT support, in my comment you’re replying to I said it doesn’t make sense for Western powers to try to overthrew regimes they DO support.

      yes, i addressed both scenarios — do support and don’t. you disingenuously chose to pretend i didn’t. the explanation i provided for you demonstrating the “do support” was:

      (see bold / italics)

      it’s also advantageous to have provocateurs embedded at events where you do [in the affirmative:”DO”] support the leaders because these provocateurs are used to incite the crowd which in turn provides a justification for authorities to crack down on demonstrators. for example, the protest at the republican convention link to commondreams.org. there are videos of israeli infiltrators in disguise inciting violence at protests. this is not unusual. in fact, it’s been done throughout history…

      anyway, carry on about my comment not making sense or whatever it was you were carrying on about. boring!

      • Theo
        November 18, 2015, 11:48 am

        Annie

        Bill R. got his information direct from the US MSM and similar outlets and just cannot understand or believe what our military and government is capable of doing! What he doesn´t know, it just doesn´t exist! We are the best democratic country in the world, a shining example of the judeo/christian faith, and the butter doesn´t melt in our mouth.
        Forget it.

        Over 40 years ago I personally went behind the Iron Curtain, several times. For decades the US military sent SF and Seals to different countries to do their little work, in Ukraina we already had people 15 years ago, working to move them to the west. That operation alone costed 5 billion dollars, just ask Ms. Nuland of the State Dept.
        Perhaps Bill R. should listen once more to the video of Gen. Clark, did he not say “we plan to destabilize 7 ME countries”? He was the commanding general of USAEUR and NATO, I believe we can and should trust what he said.

      • Bill R.
        November 19, 2015, 5:48 pm

        au contraire, what’s being discussed (between the 2 of us) is specific allegations you made.

        I didn’t make any allegation, I disputed the claim that Western powers orchestrated the Arab Spring.

        […]

        (Will be interesting to see if this comment gets blocked by moderators again even though it doesn’t violate any rule)

      • Annie Robbins
        November 19, 2015, 10:34 pm

        i am a moderator bill. i cut out the repetition of what you said before because we already read it. it’s clear you didn’t like dual examples of the reasons the US would send agents to overthrow regimes they did and didn’t like. so i will answer you again with something fresh and specific.

        what you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense. Why would Western powers send spies and agitators to foment the overthrow of regimes they support?

        say for example a loyal puppet was old and changing the constitution to provide a seamless opportunity for his son to take over and the U.S. did want the son to take over. say they wanted someone else to take over. maybe they thought it would be more effective to get his regime out of power before the son took over.

        there’s one example. i’m sure i could think of others.

  30. Bill R.
    November 18, 2015, 4:21 pm

    Reply to Theo’s comments :

    1956 hungarian uprising against the soviets, 1968, Prague uprising, 1974 argentine military coup in Buenos Aires. Do I qualify, in your estimate?

    You don’t seem to have learned much from that experience if you believe Western countries overthrow regimes they support.

    Bill R. got his information direct from the US MSM and similar outlets and just cannot understand or believe what our military and government is capable of doing! What he doesn´t know, it just doesn´t exist! We are the best democratic country in the world, a shining example of the judeo/christian faith, and the butter doesn´t melt in our mouth.
    Forget it.

    This is coming from the person who said politicians decide to invade countries because they don’t take the time to think about the consequences. You probably think Bush and Cheney invaded Iraq because they were dumb and incompetent, not because it was part of the usual policy of using force to pursue strategic and economic gains. This is exactly the kind of criticism that is allowed in the mainstream media : call it a blunder but don’t call it a crime.

    Perhaps Bill R. should listen once more to the video of Gen. Clark, did he not say “we plan to destabilize 7 ME countries”? He was the commanding general of USAEUR and NATO, I believe we can and should trust what he said.

    We should trust him even though his claim was illogical, he presented no evidence and his prediction turned out to be wrong (still waiting for the US invasion of Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon and Iran that was supposed to happen before 2008)?

  31. Theo
    November 19, 2015, 12:56 pm

    Bill, my friend,

    there is no reason to discuss this issue with you anymore, you are the type of person who doesn´t see the forest because a tree is in front of him. You twist everything Annie or I say to fit your own interests, it seems you know everything better. You probably would find a few mistakes in Einsteins´ Theory.

    Just for your information, we had troops in Somalia and even in Lebanon, although Gen. Clark never said we will invade those countries, he said “destabilize”, and to be more destabilized is unimaginable!
    As far as an evidence, I will e-mail him and ask for a copy of that highly classified document the Pentagon has, would that satisfy you? He could send it directly to you if you publish your e-mail address in MW!

  32. Bill R.
    November 23, 2015, 7:21 pm

    Reply to Annie Robbins :

    say for example a loyal puppet was old and changing the constitution to provide a seamless opportunity for his son to take over and the U.S. did want the son to take over. say they wanted someone else to take over. maybe they thought it would be more effective to get his regime out of power before the son took over.

    In that case the U.S. no longer supports the regime. We’re not talking about turning against a former puppet regime, we’re talking about the U.S. (or any other country) overthrowing a regime that it currently supports. It’s simply illogical.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 23, 2015, 8:15 pm

      In that case the U.S. no longer supports the regime. We’re not talking about turning against a former puppet regime

      you’re so bent on having the last word you are not being logical, or else you are not listening. if the US supports a regime but does not like the son and predicts the son will take over when the father dies, it does not mean the US no longer supports the current regime. it means they are pre empting a regime they anticipate may come in the future. for example:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Mubarak

      Inheritance of power[edit]
      The grooming of Gamal Mubarak to be his father’s successor as the next president of Egypt became increasingly evident at around 2000.[6] With no vice-president, and with no heir-apparent in sight, Gamal started enjoying considerable attention in Egyptian state-run media.[7] On 3 February 2000 Hosni Mubarak appointed him to the General Secretariat of the ruling National Democratic Party.[8] Bashar al-Assad’s rise to power in Syria in June 2000 just hours after Hafez al-Assad’s death, sparked a heated debate in the Egyptian press regarding the prospects for a similar scenario occurring in Cairo.[9]
      …….
      Both President Mubarak and his son denied the possibility of any inheritance of power in Egypt. More recently, this claim was made in early 2006, when Gamal Mubarak declared repeatedly that he had no aspiration to succeed his father, but that he would maintain his position in the then-ruling NDP as deputy secretary general, a post he held in addition to heading the party’s policy committee, allegedly the most important organ of the NDP.[11]
      In September 2004, several political groups (most are unofficial), on both the left and the right, announced their sharp opposition to the inheritance of power. They demanded political change and a fair, multi-candidate election.[12]
      On 26 February 2005, Mubarak ordered the constitution changed to allow multi-candidate presidential elections before September 2005 by asking parliament to amend Article 76 of the Egyptian constitution. This change in the constitution was seen then by some analysts and senior judicial figures as a ploy to seamlessly allow Gamal Mubarak to inherit the top position in Egypt. According to this view, Gamal Mubarak would be one of the candidates in a presidential elections and would be supported by the ruling party and the government-controlled media. Since remaining serious candidates would be disqualified by the NDP-controlled People’s Assembly leaving only the less popular candidates, the inheritance of power would be accomplished through a “democratic” process. However these were all merely assumptions made by political activists, analysts, and opponents.[citation needed]

      or maybe they liked the son they just thought elections were too much of a risk at a later date not knowing when mubarak would die. i am not advocating this scenario existed, i am giving an example of circumstances that might apply.

      sometimes in life people make choices not because they do not like one thing, but they prefer another. for example, there are circumstances where a husband divorces their wife to marry a younger woman. it doesn’t necessarily mean they no longer support their wife and appreciate the loyalty she provided for the long 30 year marriage. it means they are looking out for what they perceive as their best interest in the future.

      it happens in business all the time. people look out for their best interest in the long term.

      big duh. theo is right:there is no reason to discuss this issue with you anymore, you are the type of person who doesn´t see the forest because a tree is in front of him.

      btw, this is a backhanded strawman/ad hominem argument:

      You probably think Bush and Cheney invaded Iraq because they were dumb and incompetent, not because it was part of the usual policy of using force to pursue strategic and economic gains.

      give it up.

  33. Bill R.
    November 23, 2015, 10:08 pm

    you’re so bent on having the last word you are not being logical, or else you are not listening. if the US supports a regime but does not like the son and predicts the son will take over when the father dies, it does not mean the US no longer supports the current regime. it means they are pre empting a regime they anticipate may come in the future

    If the US believes that a friendly regime should be toppled, for whatever reason (including preempting a future inheritance of power) then from that point on the US no longer supports the regime. “No longer supports” means “no longer believes this regime should stay in power”. This is elementary logic.

    In the case of Egypt, The US not only publicly supported the Hosni Mubarak regime almost until the end, it continued to send aid to the regime during the uprisings that it supposedly engineered. Making the “Arab Spring is a Western plot” theory ludicrous. And not just ludicrous but dehumanizing towards Arabs (they can’t rise up by themselves), as I said several times in my comments before you edited that part out. I understand why you’d want to edit it out, as someone who calls herself a human rights activist it must bother you to deal with the fact that you’re pushing (or suggesting) a theory that dehumanizes an entire group of people.

    btw, this is a backhanded strawman/ad hominem argument

    No, this is a reasonable assumption based on his previous comments. He accused me of getting my information directly from the US mainstream media, not realizing that his own view is exactly what the US mainstream media finds acceptable : mainly that politicians invade countries and start wars because they’re dumb and incompetent. It’s interesting that you called me naive but you have nothing to say about his comments :

    Our politicians would do good if they sit back and think for a minute or two. We are bombing and invading countries and killing hundreds of thousands in the ME, what did they think, what will be the results? A thank you with red roses?

    Is it not the time to get the idiots out of our governments and replace them with men who have brains?

    Not naive at all.

    And of course this has nothing to do with what we’re debating but you already know that.

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