Some Jews support BDS ‘from a place of love’ for Israel, says AJC official

US Politics
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On Wednesday night in Brooklyn, Congregation Mount Sinai had a panel on the “new anti-Semitism,” featuring speakers from the American Jewish Committee, the Anti Defamation League and the New York Times. The speakers from the two Jewish organizations generally equated the BDS movement against Israel (boycott, divestment and sanctions) with anti-Semitism. The reporter for the New York Times was careful not to say a word about Israel.

Here are several interesting statements from the panel. The last one is the one in my headline.

Seffi Kogen, an official of the American Jewish Committee, said that college campuses have been “hijacked” by the “alt left.”

I wrote an op-ed for Haaretz about five or six months ago. The title they slapped on it was, “The Alt-right Promotes Hatred of Jews. The Alt-left: Hatred of Israel.” I think we have seen that problem become increasingly prevalent on college campuses…. Whereas the alt right has been finding political avatars, they would say in the form of Donald Trump, Geert Wilders, Marine Le Pen, and others in Europe and elsewhere, the alt left does not have those same political avatars. But they do have academic avatars. There are professors on campuses around the country– whole departments in fact, sociology, anthropology, women’s studies– that will be hijacked by this alt left, in a way that we’d never allow the alt right to hijack an academic discipline.

And of course there’s very little we can do about it within the bounds of academic freedom. But where we can address it is insure that the students that those people could teach, and who they could implicate into this deeply-problematic hatred of Israel– we can reach those students. So that’s what I primarily focus on.

Here are two efforts Kogen has undertaken to counter criticism of Israel:

Over winter break in December, I led a group of 17 non-Jewish student leaders from Brown University to Israel. All of them came in with the basic paradigm with regard to the Israel Palestinian conflict, that Israel is the villain, Palestinians are the victim. After a week they all realized, that that’s simply not true, there is far more nuance and far more complexity to the conflict than that and now we’re working with them to spread that knowledge around Brown University’s campus…

Just this last weekend, I was in Coral Gables, at the University of Miami, with a group of 30 students, Jewish students and Latino students, from 10 different campuses around the country. And we were there because we wanted to create a space where the students could learn one another’s stories and learn how to support one another’s advocacy. So when they return to campus the Jewish students are better equipped to stand up and speak out against immigration bans, against the Mexican wall, whatever they might be moved to align themselves with. And the Latino students are better equipped to speak out against anti-semitism and hatred of Israel.

Joseph Goldstein, reporter for the New York Times, on the alt-right’s view of Jews:

In terms of understanding how the alt right thinks about Jews, or why they think about Jews– I was at the notorious Richard Spencer conference last November. And some of the speakers were citing the Frankfurt School in their speeches. It was probably the first mention I had heard of the Frankfurt School since college. The alt right is quite literate and they have sort of, I mean you can call it a conspiracy theory or an alternative view of history, but they have sort of spun a narrative of how America got to this present moment in time, in which Jews play an outsized role.

And the alt right is obsessed with the notion that at some point in the not too distant future, America will not be a majority white country. I think there was a census estimate that it would happen 40 years from now. That’s a figure that gets cited an awful lot. And immigration is without question the number one issue for the alt right.

And understanding why we have open borders in the view of the alt right, and understanding American immigration history, they sort of look at the Ellis Island myth as they put it of America as a welcoming country as something that Jewish policies and Jewish influence have brought about. That if you take a look back, that the only ethnic group that has been seeking open borders and seeking a liberal immigration policy for a century now are the Jews.…

I was somewhat stunned by just listening to various alt right speakers. They trace the rise of multiculturalism and just the population shifts in America, as the result of a Jewish conspiracy to make America less white and Anglo-Saxon. And so one reason why the Jews do play a large role in sort of the alt right’s world view, is they sort of need the Jews and the antisemitism in order to make sense of what America looks like today.

Interestingly, Goldstein did not get the opportunity to express these ideas in his article at the time.

Evan Bernstein, New York regional director of the Anti Defamation League, says anti-Semitism is the “oldest form of hatred known to man,” but the U.S. today is the best place ever for Jews:

I spoke at a press conference on the arrest of Juan Thompson, and I said, Anti-semitism is the oldest form of hatred really known to man. There hasn’t been any kind of cure for it. It’s been in every single major society really since societies have been around. Jews have started in these communities and then thrived and been driven out, as quickly as they have thrived.

We have always, for whatever reason—we’re here in a synagogue– if you want to make it biblical, if you want to make it sociological, whatever it is– Jews are always the lightning rod for some form of hate in whatever society we’ve been able to be in…

Europe is a much less rosy picture. But in America, I’m very clear to say, this is still the best place ever to be a Jew in history. When I sat next to Governor Cuomo— my grandparents were first generation off-the-boat Russians. If they ever thought in two generations their grandson would be sitting next to the governor of New York talking about how the governor would be protecting the Jewish people and investing a lot of money–

Despite everything we see right now, this is a time where Jews are able to thrive financially, they are able to get educated at the best universities– two generations ago that was not the case. Maybe country clubs are still the one area where we are not the best in getting into.. But in general there is a freedom of movement and a freedom of religion that two generations ago we could only dream about.

We have to be very cognizant of that, but keep our eyes open to what is taking place and the trends in front of us.

Seffi Kogen says that some Jews he knows support BDS out of love for Israel:

We often fall into this trap of assuming that students who support BDS, the movement to boycott, divest from and sanction the state of Israel in an effort supposedly to end Israel’s occupation– they never of course say whether they’re referring to an occupation after the Six Day War, that is the West Bank and Gaza, or whether they’re referring to Israel’s very existence– we fall into this trap where we think that Jewish students who support BDS do so out of ignorance. I think that some do. I think that some simply don’t know that there is a case for Israel.

I also think that there are some, in fact, I know that there are some, anecdotally, who do so—and I think they are misguided– but who do so from a place of love. They were my classmates in day school, and my bunkmates at Jewish camp. They were on the year-program that I spent in between high school and college in Israel. These are people who don’t hate Israel. You would be hard pressed to pin a charge of antisemitism on them that would actually stick. And so when we create this kind of caricature of them, I think it prevents us from accurately dealing with the problem that actually exists on campus.

Yesterday I tweeted Kogen a sincere question. Don’t some of your former bunkmates who support BDS object to the very issue in Israel that Joseph Goldstein finds justly objectionable in the alt-right: endless rhetoric of losing a racial majority. Kogen did not answer my question.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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58 Responses

  1. yonah fredman
    March 10, 2017, 7:25 pm

    No one imagines the multi ethnic American majority voting white americans off the island. The Arab/Islamic majority might very well vote the jews out of israel.

    • chocopie
      March 10, 2017, 9:14 pm

      You mean like how the Jews “voted” the Palestinians out?

    • echinococcus
      March 11, 2017, 12:11 am

      Bingo, Mr Fredman. The penny dropped again. Stop using inappropriate descriptions so we may understand though: the Palestinians, as owners of the whole territory, have every right (and more) to order the Zionist interlopers out of their illegal presence in Palestine.
      That’s the essential fact that smarter Zionists are so dead set on hiding.

    • oldgeezer
      March 11, 2017, 1:30 am

      @yonah

      After 70 years of oppression what is your basis for blaming them.

      You reap what you sow. Maybe now would be a good time for Israelis to behave as decent human beings and knock off the oppression and territori acquisition.

      You expect the other side to do that first?

      Suck it up sunshine. No humans like having someones boot on their necks. You want friends in the region then behave like friends. No don’t waste your breath as Israel has never tried to coexist.

    • Citizen
      March 11, 2017, 6:41 am

      What’s the difference, if any, between the Alt-Right stance and Israel’s stance regarding respective immigration policy? The legislative history of the USA shows Jewish organizations in the USA have always led the charge supporting open border policy; indeed, they were leaders in portraying the Immigration Act of 1965 as a good thing for America–the melting pot would not be one where “scum rose to the top, while the bottom was burned”; and they dissed prescient warning of the future impact of chain migration on US demography and culture. In 2015 the NYT wrote that the USA would have a completed non-white majority by 2042.

      • Mooser
        March 11, 2017, 11:51 am

        and they dissed prescient warning of the future impact of chain migration “

        “Citizen” , do me a favor. We’ll forego finding out who the “they” are in the sentence, if you please, please tell me what “chain migration” is.

        “In 2015 the NYT wrote that the USA would have a completed non-white majority by 2042”

        Huh? That’s easy to fix. All we have to do is define “white” as a bit tanner than it used to be. Problem solved.

        Edit: Sorry “Citizen”. I didn’t really understand the implications of your post. You are warning us that this “completed non-white majority” will almost surely all be fervent Zionists, and make the US a lackey of Israel?

      • gamal
        March 11, 2017, 3:34 pm

        “In 2015 the NYT wrote that the USA would have a completed non-white majority by 2042”

        Build more prisons and problem solved and get an AR15

        in the Kulturkampf and the eternal war of us against them “they” always stab us in the back,

    • CigarGod
      March 11, 2017, 9:06 am

      Ha!
      You must be very young.
      That conversation/fear has been going on in the USA for 100 years at least.

    • amigo
      March 11, 2017, 10:08 am

      “The Arab/Islamic majority might very well vote the jews out of israel. “YF

      It could be worse that that.The Arab Islamic (you mean Palestinians , don,t you ??.) might offer full citizenship to Jews and force them to live as equal citizens.My , the Jewish Nakba.

    • diasp0ra
      March 12, 2017, 6:14 am

      @Yonah

      This is exactly what the Boers said. This anxiety of the colonist because they think the colonized will pay them back in kind.

      That won’t happen. Furthermore, if we’re talking about any kind of settlement on that scale there will be constitutional safeguards and guarantees that no one group can determine the fate of the other in that way.

      • Mooser
        March 12, 2017, 12:20 pm

        “That won’t happen. Furthermore, if we’re talking about any kind of settlement on that scale there will be constitutional safeguards and guarantees that no one group can determine the fate of the other in that way “

        So you are saying that you can guarantee that enough Jews will stay in Israel under the changed conditions to keep Israel viable?
        I really doubt that.

      • diasp0ra
        March 13, 2017, 3:55 am

        @Mooser

        We’re talking about a post Zionist government situation, doubtful it would be called Israel to begin with. Nobody can guarantee that people will stay, but there will constitutional safeguards against being able to vote people away, or cement a tyranny of the majority. That’s what I meant.

  2. pabelmont
    March 10, 2017, 7:28 pm

    A BIG FEAR: fear “of losing a racial majority”. (Doesn’t quite fit the South Africa situation during the battle to end apartheid, but fits Israel&OPT&refugees to a “T” and fits “alt right” fears about America just as well. Does not seem to fit France very well — no huge perceived-as-non-French near-majority, is there? The fear is there and is exploited, of course.)

    I’m not sure why you use “finds justly objectionable” here: ” Joseph Goldstein finds justly objectionable in the alt-right: endless rhetoric of losing a racial majority.” I mean, it may be objectionable to Goldstein (or to you or to me) but makes a lot of sense to the alt-rightists.

  3. Kay24
    March 10, 2017, 8:31 pm

    There is something call “tough love” which it seems those who blindly support Israel still have not heard about.

  4. eljay
    March 10, 2017, 10:18 pm

    … Evan Bernstein, New York regional director of the Anti Defamation League, says anti-Semitism is the “oldest form of hatred known to man” …

    ·  Anti-Semitism is the oldest form of hatred known to man.
    ·  Jews alone have suffered persecution throughout history.
    ·  The Holocaust is the worst genocide ever.
    ·  Israel is a “moral beacon”.

    Sometimes it’s hard to know whether people like Mr. Bernstein are simply exaggerating or deliberately lying.

    • CigarGod
      March 11, 2017, 9:08 am

      I thought the oldest was sibling rivalry.

    • chocopie
      March 11, 2017, 9:41 am

      Obviously lying. Anyone who stops to think for 2 minutes knows antisemitism is not the oldest form of hatred known to man. So ridiculous.

      • echinococcus
        March 11, 2017, 1:41 pm

        Just a quick note, Chocopie: the Censor here seems to object when the Zionist education that produces such idiotic minds is called in question, so we won’t be able to discuss it. Heshe might of course indicate what exactly is objectionable in that so that one might correct the message to hisher taste but it doesn’t seem probable.

    • RoHa
      March 11, 2017, 8:26 pm

      The oldest form of hatred is for that bastard Og who thinks he’s so tough and always grabs the best part of the mammoth.

  5. echinococcus
    March 11, 2017, 12:21 am

    Seffi Kogen says that some Jews he knows support BDS out of love for Israel

    He’s absolutely right, and that is the only explanation for some official BDS groups to have interfered with their bylaws, limiting the scope to post-67 occupation only, the reason for boycott campaigns to start castrated, limited to post-67 occupation area only, the reason for the Zionist presence and influence in the leadership of a movement supposedly in solidarity with Palestinian resistance.

  6. Boo
    March 11, 2017, 9:11 am

    “There are professors on campuses around the country … that will be hijacked by this alt left, in a way that we’d never allow the alt right to hijack an academic discipline.” — Seffi Kogen

    What is this “alt left” of which you speak?

    I’ve been considerably left of center since Vietnam. and I’ve never heard of the “alt left”. Please stop trying to invent fake bookends such as an “alt left” merely to suit your false-equivalence arguments.

    Otherwise, I may have to program the “Alt-Z” on my keyboard such that if I press that combo, it poots all you alt-Zionists out of existence. For love of Israel, of course.

  7. Ossinev
    March 11, 2017, 9:29 am

    @YF
    “The Arab/Islamic majority might very well vote the jews out of israel”

    Well that would at least be an improvement on forcing a native population out of its native country , frequently using the odd massacre to get the message across , and then insisting to all the world that they left voluntarily.

  8. jon s
    March 11, 2017, 10:39 am

    Slightly -but not entirely -off topic here: there’s a “Team Israel” in the WBC , made up of Jewish -American players (and doing very well, so far). I don’t know much about them, like how many of them have ever set foot here. But they are Jewish- Americans happy and proud to represent Israel.

    And a very happy Purim to all those celebrating!

    • eljay
      March 11, 2017, 2:46 pm

      || jon s: Slightly -but not entirely -off topic here: there’s a “Team Israel” in the WBC , made up of Jewish -American players (and doing very well, so far). I don’t know much about them, like how many of them have ever set foot here. But they are Jewish- Americans happy and proud to represent Israel. … ||

      I wonder if these non-Israeli players are being forced to anti-Semitically conflate Israel with all Jews and all Jews with Israel or if are they doing so willingly.

      || … And a very happy Purim to all those celebrating! ||

      May the joyousness of your celebration not be tempered by the memory of the deliberate Jewish massacre of thousands upon thousands of non-Jews. :-)

      • jon s
        March 11, 2017, 3:56 pm

        eljay,
        In the Book of Esther, the Jews manage to avoid annihilation and turn the tables on their enemies, but there’s no massacre of innocent non-Jews.

      • Keith
        March 11, 2017, 8:55 pm

        JON S- “In the Book of Esther, the Jews manage to avoid annihilation and turn the tables on their enemies, but there’s no massacre of innocent non-Jews.”

        What you are saying is that the Gentiles who were massacred were, by definition, not “innocent”? Allow me to quote from Haaretz:

        “Allow me to begin with a confession: For as long as I can remember, I never liked the holiday of Purim, with its story of the massacre of the gentiles and its message of revenge and rejoicing at the downfall of others. As if hanging Haman’s 10 sons were not enough, the Book of Esther goes on to boast that “the other Jews that were in the king’s provinces gathered themselves together, and stood for their lives, and had rest from their enemies, and slew of their foes seventy and five thousand” (Esther 9:16). In addition, we read Esther’s appalling request that the Jews of Shushan be granted another day to act “according unto this day’s decree” – i.e., to slaughter their non-Jewish neighbors brutally. To eliminate any doubt, the author of the Book of Esther emphasizes that this was not a case of self-defense, and that “no man could withstand them; for the fear of them fell upon all people” (9:2). And so every year all that’s left for me to do is to grit my teeth during the synagogue reading of the Megillah, taking comfort in the fact that historically, at least, the veracity of this story is very much in doubt.” (Ruth Meisels) http://www.haaretz.com/purim-will-never-be-the-same-1.189873

      • eljay
        March 11, 2017, 11:11 pm

        || jon s: eljay, In the Book of Esther, the Jews manage to avoid annihilation and turn the tables on their enemies, but there’s no massacre of innocent non-Jews. ||

        Of course not. You know – because your holy book tells you so – that every one of the seventy and five thousand in the king’s provinces plus another 800 in Shushan the palace deserved to die. And, so, you “primarily celebrate”.

      • jon s
        March 12, 2017, 3:45 am

        A few years ago, never mind for what purpose , I wrote the following reflections on the Book of Esther (the “Megillah”). Anyone taking the trouble to read them should do so with the Biblical text on hand:
        .
        1.Feminism: In Chapter 1 we are introduced to the first feminist moment: Vashti’s refusal to appear before the king and his drunken cronies.
        Here we have the king and his retainers, seriously drunk after a 7-day binge*, and Vashti refuses. What’s their reaction? Memucan**, the chief genius here , says : “let’s legislate!” Let’s pass a law that says that women have to obey. All the other guys say: Right, we’ll pass a law. That’ll make ’em respect us…
        Now it seems to me that the author is trying to show how stupid and ridiculous they are. Respect and honor are certainly not values that can be legislated.
        *7 days? What am I talking about? The ministers had been partying for 5 months! (See verse 4. The 7 day party was for the common people.)
        ** According to some commentators Memucan is non other than Haman himself! Why? Because of his way of thinking: Memucan , because of the incident with Vashti, wants to punish all women, the same as Haman, who because of his problem with Mordecai, wants to destroy all Jews.

        2.Look at 2:12: “Six months in myrhh oil, six months in perfume”. Is this for real? A year in the bathtub? In any good satire , a phenomenon is exaggerated to emphasize how ridiculous it is. Perhaps the author – once again- is slyly hinting at the ridiculous attitude towards women, who need to be “softened up” by a year of cosmetics.

        3. Throughout the Megillah, the women are more impressive than the men: Queen Vashti with her proud refusal to be exhibited as a trophy; Zeresh, Haman’s wife, who is way ahead of her husband in understanding what’s going on (6:13); and, of course , Esther herself, who emerges from her role as the meek, passive girl doing her cousin’s bidding , turns the tables (“turning the tables” is what Purim is all about…) and starts commanding him,and all the Jews(4: 15-17) . Note that only at this point, after she gives orders to her uncle and people , and then goes forth to confront the king , is she regularly referred to as “Queen Esther”. She has earned the title.
        Among the men, on the other hand, we have the dumb and easily manipulated King, and a farcical villain like Haman. See the events of his downfall: pure comic-opera.

        4. Haman may be farcical, but his plot is anything but amusing. Note his use of the classical Anti-Semitic formulation (3:8). Haman’s plot is no spontaneous outburst. It’s not like he’s pissed with Mordecai, and immediately goes off to instigate a pogrom. On the contrary: it would have been deliberate, premeditated genocide. Look at the timeline (3:12-13): Haman is given authorization on the 13th of Nissan, to execute his plan on the 13th of Adar, 11 months later. He has almost a year to prepare: to hire, indoctrinate and train the would-be perpetrators. In retaliation we eat his ears, which is weird.

        5.Clearly, Jewish tradition has always opposed intermarriage. Yet there’s no getting around the fact that the Jews are saved thanks to an act of intermarriage.
        The Dead Sea Scrolls contain at least fragments of all the books in the Bible, with the exception of Esther. Given the Qumran sect’s obsession with matters of “purity ” and “impurity” , one can imagine that certain aspects of the book offended them, and they didn’t accept it.

        6. Names: As Diaspora Jews, Mordecai and Esther bear Babylonian or Persian names , which they may have felt they needed to get ahead in the local society. Mordecai may well have also had a Hebrew name (much as many Diaspora Jews today have Hebrew names, aside from their day-to-day English names) , but it’s not revealed. We are told Esther’s Hebrew name: Hadassah (2:7).

        7. Vengeance: I’ve heard the accusation that Purim celebrates the massacre of innocents, certainly offensive to present-day sensibilities. Well, not quite: According to the Megillah (8:11) , the Jews were given permission to annihilate their enemies, including women and children, and loot their property. However, in the execution, that’s not what happens. Those killed are “enemies”, presumably members of the militia Haman had enlisted to destroy the Jews, not innocent women and children. The Megillah also repeatedly emphasizes that no loot was taken, despite the authorization the Jews had to do so.

        8.The Megillah calls Haman “the Agagite” (3:1) , a reference to Agag, King of the Amalekites. Mordecai is a “son of Kish”, of the tribe of Benjamin (2:5). To understand the meaning of these references we have to go to 1 Samuel, chapter 15.
        In this chapter King Saul – who is the son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin – is commanded to utterly wipe out the Amalekites , who are the embodiment of evil. Saul defeats and annihilates the Amalekites but spares their king, Agag, and their cattle. The prophet Samuel is furious, informs Saul that for his “sin” of disobeying a divine commandment in showing compassion for the evil king, his kingdom will be taken from him , and executes Agag. Now it looks to me like the lineage here shouldn’t be taken literally. A Persian minister is not a biological descendent of a desert tribe, which existed hundreds of years earlier, and was, indeed annihilated*; and Mordecai is not likely to have been able to trace his ancestry back to Saul. The Megillah is implying a “spiritual ancestry”: Haman is as evil as Amalek, and Mordecai is an heir to Saul, in leading his people against the Amalek of his time, and perhaps also in his display of compassion. (See point #7)
        Incidentally, there was a Nazi criminal named Hamann. (Einsatzgruppe A, personally responsible for the murder of the Jews of Shavli, Lithuania).
        *Though there’s a midrash according to which Agag, in the brief time that he lived after being spared by Saul and before having his head cut off by Samuel, managed to impregnate a woman, and from that bloodline came Haman.

        8.The traditional commentaries provide endless surprises. The Talmud goes as far as to say that Haman’s descendents “studied Torah in Bnei Beraq”(!) (Bavli Gitin 57B) Just to show that repentance and “tikkun” are always possible.

        9. I’ve always wondered about the last verse in the book (10:3). After all he’s done why is Mordecai accepted only by “most of his brethren”? The Hatam Sofer offers this explanation: anyone in the Jewish community who deals with conversions, as Mordecai probably did (8:17), sooner or later finds himself in trouble with parts of the community. Sounds familiar.

      • Mooser
        March 12, 2017, 12:42 pm

        10) The wonderful Beersheba Purim Festival, where the kids play soccer with an Eritrean.

      • eljay
        March 12, 2017, 1:12 pm

        || jon s: … 1.Feminism: In Chapter 1 we are introduced to the first feminist moment: … ||

        Are you suggesting that it is the “first feminist moment” in all of history, or is this just typical Zionist exaggeration?

        || … 7. Vengeance: I’ve heard the accusation that Purim celebrates the massacre of innocents … Well, not quite: According to the Megillah (8:11) , the Jews were given permission to annihilate their enemies, including women and children, and loot their property. However, in the execution, that’s not what happens. Those killed are “enemies”, presumably members of the militia Haman had enlisted to destroy the Jews, not innocent women and children. … ||

        Jews were given permission to annihilate non-Jewish men, women and children because they are considered enemies of Jews. (8:11) Jews then proceeded to smite their enemies and to do “what they would unto those that hated them”. (9:5)

        It’s no surprise that you want to “presume” that “those who hated them” and were their “enemies” were strictly “members of the militia Haman had enlisted”. Party on, dude. :-)

      • Mooser
        March 12, 2017, 3:19 pm

        “A few years ago, never mind for what purpose…”

        Like the work itself doesn’t make it obvious what the “purpose” is?

      • jon s
        March 12, 2017, 4:08 pm

        eljay,
        Of course I mean the first feminist moment in the Megillah.

        My take on the Megillah is based on a careful reading of the text. As with the entire Bible, different interpretations are possible.

      • eljay
        March 12, 2017, 5:31 pm

        || jon s: eljay,
        Of course I mean the first feminist moment in the Megillah. … ||

        Of course.

        || … My take on the Megillah is based on a careful reading of the text. As with the entire Bible, different interpretations are possible. ||

        No doubt. And if you’re going to celebrate a deliberate massacre of thousands of people, it’s best to carefully read the text and then celebrate an interpretation in which no women or children or other innocents were murdered.

      • Annie Robbins
        March 12, 2017, 6:09 pm

        with a careful reading, no women and kids were murdered in gaza either /s

    • amigo
      March 11, 2017, 4:04 pm

      “And a very happy Purim to all those celebrating!” jon s

      I wont be dwelling on whether or not zionists will enjoy their Purim.I will be thinking about the hundreds of thousands Palestinians under lock down so their oppressors can celebrate —unhindered , by the presence those they oppress.

      You couldn,t make this stuff up.

      • eljay
        March 13, 2017, 11:50 am

        || jon s: Some more on Team Israel … ||

        … The roster was filled with minor leaguers, former major leaguers and baseball misfires, all of them Americans with enough Jewish heritage to play for Team Israel. …

        It’s funny that a team comprised entirely of Israeli Americans sufficiently-Jewish, non-Israeli Americans is called “Team Israel”. A more appropriate name would be “Team Religion-Supremacist ‘Jewish State'” (or maybe just “Team ‘Jewish State'”).

  9. Sibiriak
    March 11, 2017, 11:09 am

    justly objectionable in the alt-right: endless rhetoric of losing a racial majority.
    ————–

    Fear of losing a racial majority is objectionable; fear of losing a cultural majority, not so much– apparently.

  10. catalan
    March 11, 2017, 11:34 am

    On the oldest form of hatred – Homo Sapiens killed off at least six but probably more species of Homo, i.e. types of man, the most famous of which is the Neardenthal.

    • Maghlawatan
      March 11, 2017, 1:23 pm

      Surely misogyny is the oldest. It is definitely as old as Orthodox Judaism

      • Mooser
        March 11, 2017, 3:49 pm

        “Surely misogyny is the oldest”

        They seem to have a real grudge against us guys, too.

  11. Maghlawatan
    March 11, 2017, 1:57 pm

    “Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain”
    the occupation is rilly stupid

    Zionism is a form of groupthink

    J. K. Galbraith:“The conventional wisdom”gives way not so much to new ideas as to “the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend”.

  12. Kaisa of Finland
    March 11, 2017, 2:00 pm

    These people make me so tired with their arguments: Hate Israel.. I do not hate Israel, it – as a country (just man made boarderlines) – has not done anything, but anyone who appreciates equality and human rights can not in any way accept the occupation, violence, bullying and the other ways Israel’s goverment and it’s supporters are treating the palestinians. And as long as things won’t change, people like me will be spreading the knowlege of what is happening in Israel and encouraging people to boycott the country and it’s supporters in everyway. Luckily I have already seen the both sides of the truth, so my mind can not be changed. I just wish people like Seffi Kogen would understand, that his right to be accepted and appreciated depends on his behavior, not his “Jewishness”. So trying to make himself a victim here, will not serve his cause.

  13. Maghlawatan
    March 11, 2017, 3:20 pm

    Some Jews are insane

    Minister Bennett : “The Lebanese institutions, its infrastructure, airport, power stations, traffic junctions, Lebanese Army bases – they should all be legitimate targets if a war breaks out. That’s what we should already be saying to them and the world now. If Hezbollah fires missiles at the Israeli home front, this will mean sending Lebanon back to the Middle Ages,” he said.
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.776419

    Iran is just as entitled to trash talk like that

  14. Maghlawatan
    March 11, 2017, 4:04 pm

    Why are orgs such as ADL so rabidly pro Right wing Israel?

    Guilt for what the US Jewish community failed to do in the 30s

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2017/03/after_kristallnacht_america_chose_not_to_save_jewish_children_from_the_nazis.html

  15. MHughes976
    March 12, 2017, 3:23 am

    If so much can be conceded to those who are Jewish but pro-BDS – that they may have loving sentiments – surely it can be conceded to those who, whether or not Jewish, reject the Zionism to which BDS is a response that we may not be ignorant, prejudiced, irrational or vicious.

    • Mooser
      March 12, 2017, 12:12 pm

      ” surely it can be conceded to those who, whether or not Jewish, reject the Zionism to which BDS is a response that we may not be ignorant, prejudiced, irrational or vicious.”

      I don’t see what you are worried about.
      If Zionism had the resources to finish the Zionist project, do you think they would care what your attitude is toward their ideology?

    • Annie Robbins
      March 12, 2017, 12:30 pm

      surely it can be conceded to those who, whether or not Jewish, reject the Zionism to which BDS is a response that we may not be ignorant, prejudiced, irrational or vicious.

      of course it can! the constant accusations of hatred used to broad brush the entire bds movement (with few exceptions) is not because it’s true, it’s because it’s the chosen defense, the overall strategy against the bds movement> ad hominem strawman (see my comment below).

      • MHughes976
        March 12, 2017, 2:20 pm

        I was suggesting a logical consequence without the hope that logic is what determines these ideas – I very much agree with your comment below, Annie. Mooser, I think that the resources to complete the project are still lacking, so if the likes of us can resist all the adstrawhominem onslaughts some good may come of it.

      • Annie Robbins
        March 12, 2017, 3:31 pm

        mhughes, yes it is a logical consequence and it’s more likely than not that people seeking solutions with a genuine effort to understand what’s going on (be they zionists, anti zionists, or neither) will reach this logical conclusion. i wasn’t referencing the average person or thinker, i was referencing the organized coordinated campaign to fight bds of which kogen is a part. the people on the front lines who all take their marching orders from the same place, whether they be kool aid drinkers or not, the structural campaign to fight bds. and i believe that campaign will fail because it relies and is dependent on a basic belief that people supporting bds are primarily motivated by hatred, which is a stupid, unrealistic and unsustainable belief.

      • Maghlawatan
        March 13, 2017, 12:25 am

        For years the Zionists insisted that the Palestinians adopt non violent strategies . Previously they spent years asking the Palestinians to recognise Israel. And years demanding negotiations.

        They just take the piss.

  16. Annie Robbins
    March 12, 2017, 12:17 pm

    Seffi Kogen used the terms “hate” and “hatred” 8 times in his haaretz op ed, never once referencing his own (assuming he has some which he would likely deny, he’s just an expert on opponents so called hatreds). this accusation is a mainstay of israel advocacy as is the accusation of anti semitism (which amounts to the same thing). it’s a crutch that demonstrates a complete unwillingness/denial to accept non violent resistance to end the occupation and as i see it, basically nothing more than a dressed up ad hominem attack — demeaning the character of the opponent instead of the argument.

    the core of this kind of defense against advocates of bds is continually hammered home over and over and over again to position advocates of bds in the defensive position of “no i am not an anti semite”, but i don’t think it’s going to work, it hasn’t yet anyway.

    i think it takes a certain kind of brainwashing to buy into this kind of fear of being accused. so when these jewish liberal zionists find themselves with ruffled feathers over this latest legislation that may keep them out of israel, it’s because what they perceive is that they too are being accused of anti semitism. ouch!

    but other people who have not been drinking the mothers milk of fear of anti semitism since birth don’t perceive it the same way, because they do not fear being falsely accused of anti semitism.

    Kogen wants people to see the nuance and far more complexity to the conflict, as if it will erase the ongoing crimes. he wants us to believe, as he writes in haaretz, there is a left equivalent of the alt right (there isn’t) and that “the alt-left looks at Israel’s beaches, filled with Muslim, Jewish, and Christian women—in burkinis, bikinis, and everything in between—and sees apartheid.”.

    no, the left looks at ethnically cleansing palestinian villages in the negev to be replaced with jewish only towns and sees apartheid. he willfully ignores blatant laws that privilege jewish citizens of israel and deny palestinian israelis the same rights.

    like everyone else defending israel he doesn’t advocate israel ever change their behavior or policy, he just demonizes the critics. so what is the purpose of these panels? to assuage the hurt feelings of the liberal zionists? to justify their positions over and over? why not a panel to bring them up to speed as to why bds is growing? other than the simple explanation that everyone who advocates for bds is a hater and an anti semite. it’s like a big echo chamber of them talking to themselves and reassuring themselves.

    and then this:

    I think they are misguided– but who do so from a place of love. …… These are people who don’t hate Israel. You would be hard pressed to pin a charge of antisemitism on them that would actually stick. And so when we create this kind of caricature of them, I think it prevents us from accurately dealing with the problem that actually exists on campus.

    ah, no. when they create this kind of caricature, it prevents them from accurately dealing with the problem that actually exists in israel.

    which of course, is the point. to protect israel — not to fix the problem.

    • RoHa
      March 14, 2017, 10:33 pm

      Annie, “hate” and “hateful”* are buzz words to go along with “anti-Semite”, “racist”, “bigot”, “misogynist”, and so forth. These are all valuable accusations to make, since they are sufficiently vague as to be widely applicable, and are not to be challenged. Asking (e.g.) “exactly what is anti-Semitic about that?” is itself a sign of anti-Semitism. If you can’t see it straight away, that proves your anti-Semitism warps your discernment.

      “Hate”, though, is particularly useful. Hate is a Bad Thing (except, of course, for the obligatory daily two-minute hate of Trump and all his works – but That’s Different) but it is also regarded as being irrational, as being a result of an inbuilt feature of personality. (“Haters gotta hate.”)

      Accusing people of hate, then is accusing them of being irrational. This is very convenient. If we allowed the thought that our opponents were rational, we might come close to thinking they might have a valid point.

      And that would never do.

      Also, we might feel some pressure to try to organize our own ideas into a rational form in order to have a rational debate. This might reveal that our position is not quite as rational as we would like to believe. An uncomfortable prospect.

      Since our opponents are irrational as well as wrong, we cannot argue with them. We have to suppress them or eliminate them. Or at least scream at them.

      (*In its modern, literal, meaning of “full of hate”. Always confuses me, since I grew up with the old meaning “arouses hatred”.)

  17. jon s
    March 13, 2017, 8:12 am

    The commenter archive function seems not to be working.

    • Mooser
      March 13, 2017, 1:11 pm

      “The commenter archive function seems not to be working”

      Okay! My faith in the+15 is restored. The full +15, and not a point less!

    • RoHa
      March 13, 2017, 10:00 pm

      Probably Mossad hacking again. I sent Adam an e-mail about it a couple of weeks ago.

      Way back before The Great Bugg Reformatting, we used to be able to read a comment on the “100 recent” page, click on the date, and go straight to that comment. Now we have to go to the article and find the comment, or go to the commenter’s profile and find it there. And now the profiles have stopped working.

      • RoHa
        March 13, 2017, 11:10 pm

        Days, not weeks.

  18. iResistDe4iAm
    March 14, 2017, 10:35 am

    “You would be hard pressed to pin a charge of antisemitism on them that would actually stick.”

    And therein lies the problem.

    Apologists for Israeli apartheid don’t care that Israel violates UN resolutions, human rights conventions and international law.

    Apologists for Israeli apartheid don’t care that Israel is delegitimizing itself on a global stage.

    Apologists for Israeli apartheid don’t care that Israel is occupying, oppressing & colonising, arbitrarily arresting, kidnapping kids from their beds, imprisoning, torturing, summarily executing, revoking residency & deporting, evicting & depopulating & demolishing, stealing land, building checkpoints & walls, ghettoizing & besieging, curfewing & collectively punishing, and indiscriminately bombing Palestinians.

    The raison d’etre for apologists for Israeli apartheid is “to pin a charge of antisemitism that would actually stick” on any person, group, organisation or country that opposes Israeli crimes.

    To pin a charge of antisemitism that would actually stick

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