The liberal double standard on boycotting North Carolina and boycotting Israel

US Politics
on 71 Comments

One of the ironies of progressive activism in the U.S. is the fact that so many leaders who supported the boycott of North Carolina over the so-called bathroom law oppose the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaign targeting Israel. The North Carolina boycott was widely backed by liberals, and it was effective: It isolated North Carolina for a law that denied transgender people the right to go to the bathroom of their choice and compelled the state to change the law (though advocates for transgender rights say that the new law the North Carolina government produced continues to allow discrimination against trans people).

New York’s Governor Andrew Cuomo, for instance, issued an executive order last year barring non-essential state funded travel to North Carolina and Mississippi because of “hateful” anti-transgender measures. Cuomo said:

“Discrimination is not a New York value. We believe our diversity is our greatest strength, and we will continue to reject the politics of division and exclusion.”

Then a few weeks later Gov. Cuomo signed an executive order barring state business with those who advocate Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel– though Israel openly discriminates against Palestinians inside Israel and deprives millions of Palestinians under occupation of the rights of travel, assembly, speech, and property.

Cuomo’s double standard was reflected by Chancellor James Milliken of the City University of New York, who banned official travel to North Carolina and Mississippi:

Employees… are also prohibited from traveling to North Carolina and Mississippi in their official capacities in connection with work they are doing for CUNY.

But that same week, Milliken came out against a graduate student council measure for the boycott of Israel, saying, “Other CUNY leaders and I have consistently and publicly opposed a boycott of Israel institutions of higher education.”

Corey Robin leaped on the double standard then:

I wish people like Chancellor Milliken—and all the opponents of BDS at CUNY and elsewhere—would get off their high horse about the grave threat to academic freedom that would come from an academic boycott of Israel… and instead acknowledge that these are all legitimate ways of promoting the human rights and dignity, and indeed the academic freedom, of oppressed minorities and subjugated populations everywhere.

Opponents of BDS say that academic boycotts throttle the free exchange of ideas; but Milliken wasn’t the only academic to push a boycott of North Carolina. The Baltimore Sun reported on this one in December last year:

Business historians across the country have joined a boycott of North Carolina over the state’s controversial transgender law and moved their 2018 conference to Baltimore’s Inner Harbor…

[Secretary-Treasurer Roger] Horowitz said the Business History Conference may well have transgender members.

“We have to be concerned how they will be treated,” he said.

The Democratic Party 2016 platform contains the same double standard for North Carolina and Israel. It referred indirectly to the bathroom bill in a plank promoting transgender rights — “We will oppose all state efforts to discriminate against LGBT individuals, including legislation that restricts the right to access public spaces”– but made it a point to condemn the BDS campaign.

[W]e will always… oppose any effort to delegitimize Israel, including at the United Nations or through the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement.

Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, said last year she was saddened by the North Carolina law because it was a step backward: “going against the tide of progress in our country for ending discrimination.”

But in March at AIPAC, Pelosi ascribed boycott of Israel to a “cancerous ideology” and called on Republicans and Democrats to “come together on efforts to counter Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions– we must.”

Democrats helped pass three anti-BDS bills in New York lately. One would expand Cuomo’s blacklist. “If enacted, state employees charged with compiling the blacklist could spend their days scouring your social media accounts for #BDS posts,” writes Rahul Saksena of Palestine Legal in the Albany Times Union.

Saksena notes that the crackdown is happening because of “growing public support” for BDS. Yes, liberal Democrats need to join with Republicans to tamp down those feisty progressives before this BDS thing gets out of control.

That seems to me the cruelest irony of the effort against BDS. When the boycott call was issued by Palestinians in 2005, transgender rights were far less widely understood in the United States than they are today; certainly it would have been impossible then to imagine so many states, organizations and individuals supporting a boycott of North Carolina over a law saying that people must use the bathrooms matching the gender on their birth certificates. But twelve years later transgender rights are at the forefront of progressive activism in the United States; and Palestinian demands are still being relegated. It isn’t consistent, and it is not fair.

BDS is also an urgent matter, because no one else is doing anything to support Palestinian rights in a meaningful way, and the only alternative for Palestinians who reject occupation is violent resistance. Israeli leaders fear BDS because it is the only pressure they are experiencing to change the status quo. BDS has real potential to force change. Just as boycott forced change on North Carolina.

P.S. Yes, donor considerations are obviously a factor in the Democratic Party’s support for anti-BDS. They are among academic leaders, too.

Thanks to Peter Belmont.

 

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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71 Responses

  1. eljay
    April 8, 2017, 1:10 pm

    When it comes to justice, accountability and equality, (pro-)Zionists are shameless hypocrites. Whodathunkit.

    • JeffB
      April 8, 2017, 7:20 pm

      @Eljay

      You have been here for years. I never see you complain about people from your side who oppose the legitimacy of Jewish residency / immigration in Palestine (agreeing you aren’t one of those) while fully supporting the 14th Amendment when it comes to Mexicans: i.e. regardless of how their parents got here, every child born in America is a full USA citizen with the same rights as a descendent of people who have been here for centuries.

      • Mooser
        April 8, 2017, 9:00 pm

        ,” every child born in America is a full USA citizen with the same rights as a descendent of people who have been here for centuries.”

        And what makes that, an American constitutional principle, applicable to the offspring of Jewish colonists, Zionists in Palestine?
        I don’t remember Israel adopting American law and principles.

      • eljay
        April 8, 2017, 9:25 pm

        || JeffB: @Eljay

        You have been here for years. … ||

        Thanks for noticing, I guess.

        || … I never see you complain about people from your side … ||

        My opinions are my own, not those of a “side”. Ask echinococcus – he’ll tell you.

      • YoniFalic
        April 9, 2017, 12:48 am

        As a JD-PhD working in international law and Jewish history, I can very simply explain the logic of removing the white racist genocidal European invaders and their non-European lackeys from the Levant.

        The invaders are colonial settlers that commit the international crimes of Apartheid and genocide.

        The plans of the white racist genocidal Europeans to commit genocide in Palestine are copiously documented since the 1880s. The invaders put the plan into effect in 1947 (after the completion of the Nuremberg IMT which is terminus a quo for customary international anti-genocide law) and continue the genocide before our eyes to this day.

        The invaders when not murdering the natives in ongoing acts of genocide perpetrate the crime of Apartheid.

        The international anti-genocide legal regime is completely meaningless as long as Israel continues to exist as a recognized state (founder vilely and criminally after Auschwitz in post-Auschwitz genocide) and as long as the invaders benefit from post Nurember IMT genocide.

        Only one solution makes sense. Removing the colonial settler invaders. It is not the 19th century. I have looked into the logistics. The colonial settler population could be removed and distributed throughout the world in approximately 2 years. (Of course, justice would mean putting the former colonial settler population in refugee camps for 70-80 years, but I am not proposing perfect justice — only a workable solution.)

        Rehabilitation of the native population might take somewhat longer, but it could easily be covered by seizing Zionist assets throughout the world.

        I know this proposal sounds radical to American years, but I have no doubt that many will ask 25 years from today why it was not implemented sooner.

      • Talkback
        April 9, 2017, 5:34 am

        JeffB: “… while fully supporting the 14th Amendment when it comes to Mexicans …”

        What are you trying to tell us, JeffB? The Mexicans have an agenda to take over the US by terrorism and expulsion to create a Mexican Apartheid regime?

      • catalan
        April 9, 2017, 8:48 am

        “Rehabilitation of the native population might take somewhat longer, but it could easily be covered by seizing Zionist assets throughout the world”. – yoni
        Just to clarify, are you proposing seizing my assets in the United States?

      • Sibiriak
        April 9, 2017, 9:09 am

        YoniFalic: I can very simply explain the logic of removing the white racist genocidal European invader
        —————-

        Could you also explain the method?

      • amigo
        April 9, 2017, 11:09 am

        “just to clarify, are you proposing seizing my assets in the United States? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/04/standard-boycotting-carolina/#sthash.vEfDywJW.dpuf“catalan

        Well , if you are set on being an ass , then you leave us no choice but to strip you of your assets before you invest them unwisely, ie financing a project that was never going to see fruition.

      • echinococcus
        April 9, 2017, 11:35 am

        The method, Sibiriak?

        Demonstrated hundreds of times by different colonial peoples, not to mention other occupied peoples. It varies enormously according to the conditions and the international constellation of forces. And varying success not to mention highly uncertain aftereffects. Surely you are pretending not to have noticed.

      • echinococcus
        April 9, 2017, 11:44 am

        Jeff,

        The American lawgiving is based on jus solis as decided by the invaders after a successful genocide.

        Your Zionist hellhole cannot yet brag about a successful genocide (not for lack of trying or lack of support by the likes of you.) Also, the owners of the place have not yet decided, by fully representative authority, whether to base citizenship on place of birth or citizenship of parents or some other thing. Or the conditions for residence.

      • Mooser
        April 9, 2017, 1:07 pm

        “As a JD-PhD working in international law and Jewish history, I can very simply explain the logic of removing the white racist genocidal European invaders and their non-European lackeys from the Levant.”

        That seems like a good place to start the bargaining. The Zionists, no doubt, will get away with something in the end. Even if it’s non-viable, and artificial.
        But starting the discussion from any other place simply guarantees they will get away with more.

      • MHughes976
        April 9, 2017, 1:17 pm

        The Law of the Sun – more exalted than the rest of us.

      • Mooser
        April 9, 2017, 1:46 pm

        “Just to clarify, are you proposing seizing my assets in the United States?”

        Do you send money to settlements, “catalan”? If you have been supporting a criminal project, you might have some liability.

      • catalan
        April 9, 2017, 5:03 pm

        “Do you send money to settlements, “catalan”?” mooser
        Why in the world would I send money to a wealthy country like Israel? Once all the billionaires in Israel give away all their wealth, maybe I would consider. It always cracks me up how people here spend their time writing on behalf of billionaires like Assad or Putin – autocrats who live in castles, sleep with models and have armies of lawyers. If I ever do give, it is to the homeless.
        Nonetheless, Yoni said that any “Zionist” (however he as JD chooses to define it) will have their property confiscated. He also has mentioned the death penalty for “Zionists”. I do not view myself as a Zionist to the extent that I am not a Jewish nationalist. However, many here do view me as a “Zionist”, perhaps because I have expressed doubt in the ability of boycotts to “force” change, or my refusal to accept that Jews “rule” the United States.
        Regardless, I hope Yoni keeps up the good work of making friends and influencing people. I hope the enemies of the Jews are all as charming as him.

      • Mooser
        April 9, 2017, 6:01 pm

        “Why in the world would I send money to a wealthy country like Israel”

        So all those websites asking for donations to further the work of Zionism are just a scam? Good to know those starving Jewish children are just models.

      • Keith
        April 9, 2017, 6:42 pm

        CATALAN- “It always cracks me up how people here spend their time writing on behalf of billionaires like Assad or Putin – autocrats who live in castles, sleep with models and have armies of lawyers.”

        Are you auditioning for a job at CNN?

      • talknic
        April 9, 2017, 7:57 pm

        @ catalan April 9, 2017, 5:03 pm

        “Why in the world would I send money to a wealthy country like Israel? “

        A) So the answer is no, you wouldn’t! B) Is that the Israel that begs for US Aid? The Israel that gets billions in German Holocaust compensation while Israeli Holocaust survivors live in poverty

        “Once all the billionaires in Israel give away all their wealth, maybe I would consider.”

        A) Why are billionaires giving money to a wealthy country like Israel? B) So the answer now is, yes you would !

        “It always cracks me up how people here spend their time writing on behalf of billionaires like Assad or Putin – autocrats who live in castles, sleep with models and have armies of lawyers.”

        A) None in this article or thread B) Trump & C) Netanyahu lives under a bridge does he? No lawyers at his disposal?

        ” If I ever do give, it is to the homeless”

        Many Israelis homeless?.

        ” I do not view myself as a Zionist to the extent that I am not a Jewish nationalist”

        WOW That proves it. I.e., you’ll say anything.

      • Maghlawatan
        April 9, 2017, 9:36 pm

        Israelis are not wealthy. The distribution of assets involves 14 very rich families at the top and widespread poverty at the bottom, especially amongst Ultra Orthodox. Maybe this is a Jewish thing.
        Israel spends very little on social welfare compared to developed countries. The settlers need the money instead. Infrastructure is poor even though the German holocaust money was diverted to it.

      • YoniFalic
        April 10, 2017, 2:10 am

        “Just to clarify, are you proposing seizing my assets in the United States?”

        The Nuremberg tribunals collectively provide sufficient case law precedent to make the punishment fit the crime.

        The Nuremberg IMT sentenced Julius Streicher to execution by hanging while Subsequent Nuremberg Trials sentenced Otto Dietrich to seven years of imprisonment. He was released within one year.

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 11:02 am

        ” I do not view myself as a Zionist to the extent that I am not a Jewish nationalist”

        Ah, another case Holmes can solve by noting how far the parsing has sunk into the blather!

      • eljay
        April 10, 2017, 12:24 pm

        || catalan: … I do not view myself as a Zionist to the extent that I am not a Jewish nationalist. However, many here do view me as a “Zionist”, perhaps because … ||

        …you, like all Zionists, believe that the religion-based identity of Jewish comprises a right to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine.

      • Misterioso
        April 16, 2017, 12:37 pm

        JeffB

        Apples and oranges.

        Foreign Zionist Jews emigrated to historical Palestine with the stated intention of dispossessing and expelling the indigenous Palestinian Arab inhabitants – see Israel Zangwill, Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Yosef Weitz, et al. Only 30% chose to become citizens of Palestine. They eventually drove out well over one million Palestinians between late 1947 and 1967 and also seized/confiscated/occupied all of mandated Palestine (as well as Syria’s Golan Heights and Lebanon’s Shebaa Farms.)

        To state the obvious, Mexicans who emigrate to the US have no intention of dispossessing and expelling those non-Mexicans already here. Indeed, their goal is to become American citizens and bring about a better future for their children.

      • YoniFalic
        April 16, 2017, 3:17 pm

        Eastern European Slavo-Turks like @JeffB and me have no legitimate claim to Palestine and are white racist genocidal European settler colonist invaders anywhere in the Levant. Said invaders should get out as quickly as possible. I did after I realized how evil Israel is thanks to my IDF service during Cast Lead. It is easy to leave. It’s the 21st century. I got on a plane to NY City. @JeffB insults human intelligence every time he babbles the Zionist shpiel.

  2. Jonathan Ofir
    April 8, 2017, 1:26 pm

    This is just so important Phil. The double-language speaks volumes.

  3. JeffB
    April 8, 2017, 7:00 pm

    @Phil

    There is a huge difference in the relative demands. No one is asking North Carolina to stop existing, no one is asking North Carolinians vacate huge chunks of the state, no one is asking North Carolina to accept being flooded with a few tens of millions of Chinese immigrants.

    There is also a difference in tone. There is no hatred of North Carolina. The boycott North Carolina movement says the state is fine they just want a simple policy change. There is no demonization of North Carolinians. There is no delegitimization of North Carolina as a state. That’s not at all the case with BDS which has an awful tone regarding Israel.

    If BDS was pushing for a say and end to workplace discrimination or housing discrimination in a moderate tone that would be a comparable situation.

    • Bumblebye
      April 8, 2017, 9:06 pm

      Stupid analogy.
      North Carolina hasn’t occupied South Carolina, nor expelled 80% of it’s population in order to install North Carolinians in their stead. It isn’t imposing its military rule and law on the remaining South Carolinians, confiscating their property for its settlements, its resources for their use and profit. It isn’t denying the right of return to its expelled people either. Israel occupies another state and does all the above and tons worse.

      • JeffB
        April 8, 2017, 10:53 pm

        @Bumblebye

        You aren’t disagreeing with my point, you are confirming it. The types of demands you are making of Israel are way beyond what liberals are demanding of North Carolina. I understand that you think Israel is far worse, but that was exactly my point to Phil. North Carolina the demand is for a minor point of reform; Israel the BDS demand is depending on interpretation for something ranging from massive reform in dozens of areas to total destruction.

    • oldgeezer
      April 8, 2017, 11:33 pm

      @jeffb

      And there is no comparison between Israel and NC. we aren’t talking about bathroom privileges or even water fountain access in the case of Israel.

      Murder, theft, disposession, state terrorism, denial if any human rights except those Israel wishes to dispense.

      Israel isn’t being demonized. It is being called out for the vicious barbaric state it is.

      You may have thought you had a point but you failed on a grand scale to comprehend the evil reality Israel imposes on millions of humans.

      Rivlin was beibg a supporter when he called Israel a sick society. It is much much worse than that.

    • Talkback
      April 9, 2017, 5:31 am

      JeffB: “No one is asking North Carolina to stop existing …”

      If North Carolina was behaving as racist as JSIL a regime change would be much appreciated. You know, just to get rid of the supremacist scum in power which priviliges some peope based on faith/heritage.

    • talknic
      April 9, 2017, 8:15 pm

      @ JeffB April 8, 2017, 7:00 pm

      “There is a huge difference in the relative demands. No one is asking North Carolina to stop existing, no one is asking North Carolinians vacate huge chunks of the state, no one is asking North Carolina to accept being flooded with a few tens of millions of Chinese immigrants.”

      BDS is not asking fir Israel to stop existing, nor asking Israelis vacate huge chunks of the state, nor asking Israelis to accept being flooded with tens of millions of Palestinians.

      BDS asks for Israel to adhere to the law. For dispossessed non-Jewish Israelis to return to Israel and for dispossessed non-Israeli refugees to return to non-Israeli territories

      “There is no hatred of North Carolina.”

      Anyone dispossessed in or by Nth Carolina? Is Nth Carolina occupying non-Nth Carolinians?? Is Nth Carolina acting illegally outside of Nth Carolina?

      ” The boycott North Carolina movement says the state is fine they just want a simple policy change”

      That’s actually all BDS asks of Israel.

      “There is no demonization of North Carolinians”

      Are they living in illegal settlements outside of Nth Carolina? Do they serve in an occupying military that protects illegal settlers outside of Nth Carolina?

      ” There is no delegitimization of North Carolina as a state.”

      It’s not in breach of International Law or the UN Cjharter

      ” That’s not at all the case with BDS which has an awful tone regarding Israel.”

      Israel is in breach of International Law and the UN Charter

      “If BDS was pushing for a say and end to workplace discrimination or housing discrimination in a moderate tone that would be a comparable situation”

      If Israel wasn’t in breach of INternational Law, =the UN Charter. If Israel was not acting illegally in non-Israeli territories. If Israel allowed its dispossession non-Jewish Israeli citizens return to Israel, that would be a comparable situation!

      Meanwhile, your drivel is full of the typical holes apparent in the wholly holey Hasbara

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 9:52 am

        @talknic

        BDS asks for Israel to adhere to the law. For dispossessed non-Jewish Israelis to return to Israel and for dispossessed non-Israeli refugees to return to non-Israeli territories

        Actually using your rather unique 1947 borders even RoR is still asking for those refugees to return to Israeli territories. It wants the to return to the location of the original villages. Most are within UN partition Israel. That’s not, even using your definition, non Israeli territory.

      • talknic
        April 10, 2017, 7:26 pm

        @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 9:52 am

        “Actually using your rather unique 1947 borders ..”

        Stop talking sh*t JeffB. They’re the borders Israel accepted, proclaimed and was recognized by. There’s nothing unique about it, nor is it mine. It was the position the Israeli Government took in order to gain International recognition. Seems they lied and they’re still lying and useful idiots still believe them

        ” … even RoR is still asking for those refugees to return to Israeli territories”

        Israeli citizens have RoR only to Israeli territories. The only territories actually belonging to Israel are those proclaimed and recognized as Israeli. None of the territories Israel has acquired by war since 00:01 May 15th 1948 has been acquired by any legal agreement with Palestine

        Israel’s Jewish population in those territories long ago outstripped any demographic threat from non-Jewish Israeli refugees with a right to return to Israel. For example, some 500,000 Arab Jews became Israeli citizens by 1953 from the Arab states alone, PLUS Jews from Germany and every other corner of the globe.

        The vast majority of Palestine refugees Israel prevents from returning were not from territories that became Israeli

    • Misterioso
      April 16, 2017, 12:39 pm

      JeffB

      Give it a rest. Get educated. You’re only making a complete fool of yourself.

  4. DaBakr
    April 8, 2017, 9:22 pm

    double standards concern PW? what a crock of sht.

    Take any transgender palestinian in Gaza-or west bank- and demand they have a right to choose a bathroom let alone keep their lives. He is so so concerned with that. what a hypocrite

    • oldgeezer
      April 8, 2017, 11:35 pm

      @dabakr

      Yeah… as if Israel gave a crap about the gender of a Palestinian when it drops a bunker buster and turns them into a member of the pink mist society.

      Some called Israel’s propaganda pink washing. It shouldn’t be ignored the pink represents vaporized Palestinians.

    • Talkback
      April 9, 2017, 5:28 am

      DaBakr is sooo concerned about the rights for Palestinian transgenders, but when it comes to Palestinians as such he supports their eternal expulsion and oppression by Jews for Apartheid reasons. What a hypocrite.

    • talknic
      April 9, 2017, 8:18 pm

      @ DaBakr

      Your concern is sooooo touching. If one didn’t know any better one might conclude that you weren’t being a hypocritical jerk

    • ckg
      April 10, 2017, 12:23 am

      Lookee over there

  5. JeffB
    April 9, 2017, 8:54 pm

    @echinococcus

    You can’t have it both ways. If there is no birthright citizenship for the descendants of invaders then the Palestinians aren’t the owners of the place. Just remnants from earlier invasions.

    I’ll wait for a representative assembly of anaerobic bacteria to determine which of us plant descendants get to live where.

    • talknic
      April 9, 2017, 10:08 pm

      @ JeffB April 9, 2017, 8:54 pm

      “You can’t have it both ways. If there is no birthright citizenship for the descendants of invaders then the Palestinians aren’t the owners of the place. Just remnants from earlier invasions.”

      Interesting theory. BTW The scriptures tell us our Jewish forefathers invaded someone

      “I’ll wait for a representative assembly of anaerobic bacteria to determine which of us plant descendants get to live where”

      States have borders that tell us where their citizens may legally settle.

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 9:38 am

        @talknic

        States have borders that tell us where their citizens may legally settle

        First off your argument is with echinococcus who doesn’t seem to believe in nation states based on rule of law. My position is closer to yours than his. You two should be debating. You and I mostly disagree in your belief on the almost divine authority of the UN. I think it is possible for the UN to err.

        As for your claim, that’s not true. There are countless examples of states with fuzzy borders and little interest in where their citizens may legally settle. The USA during the 18th to early 19th century being a good example. The state policy was to encourage westward expansion of its citizens well outside its borders. Probably the majority of states today don’t have enough control over their citizens and borders to control where they legally settle.

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 11:13 am

        “I’ll wait for a representative assembly of anaerobic bacteria to determine which of us plant descendants get to live where”

        Let me get this correctly, “JeffB”: Zionism is an infection, a fatal infection, for which there is no antibiotic? Ho-Kay.

      • talknic
        April 10, 2017, 7:50 pm

        @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 9:38 am

        ” … There are countless examples of states with fuzzy borders and little interest in where their citizens may legally settle”

        Border disputes arise through both states claiming to HAVE borders. Name those in dispute who claim to not have any declared borders.

        Israel claims, nonsensically, it does not have borders. It also claims it was attacked by the Arab States. Tell be this you Zionist idiot, how, if a country has no borders, can anyone know if its territories were attacked? How can it logically know who should pay it taxes? Where do import and export duties start and finish? Where may its citizens legally reside?

        “The USA during the 18th to early 19th century being a good example.”

        It’s now 2017, time to wake up. In 1933 the US signed the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States.

        ” The state policy was to encourage westward expansion of its citizens well outside its borders. Probably the majority of states today don’t have enough control over their citizens and borders to control where they legally settle.”

        You’re talking more sh*te JeffB. It’s now 2017 and there is only one active POTUS over all US states

        Why is it you keep coming here and like catalan et al, making a complete idiot of yourself?

        There are no arguments that logically, morally, ethically or legally favour Israel’s ongoing illegal acquisition of non-Iraeli territories

    • YoniFalic
      April 10, 2017, 1:58 am

      Only a moron, ignoramus, or liar claims the natives are “just remnants from earlier invasions” while he denies that the invaders are white racist genocidal European colonial settlers (+favored non-European lackeys), who committed and commit genocide on US dime.

      Only a moron, ignoramus, or liar claims the natives, who descend from Greco-Roman Judeans are “just remnants from earlier invasions” while he denies that the European invaders (+favored non-European lackeys) descend from Medieval Jewish communities, whose ancestors were non-Judean converts to various Judaisms that proselytized among gentiles.

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 12:19 pm

        ,” whose ancestors were non-Judean converts to various Judaisms that proselytized among gentiles.”

        Gosh, that must have been a hard job. Oh, maybe not getting them, but keeping them. Let’s look at the most probable scenario; the new convert gets up from his first Seder: “Oh, that was yummy,” he says, “but next year, let’s have a roasted suckling pig, and a clambake!”
        And then somebody, I’m glad it isn’t me, has to explain the brutal facts to him. You can have wine, but no swine.

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 2:12 pm

        @Yoni

        In this rather interesting theory, how did the Jews get their missionaries to stay chaste over all these generations and not intermingle with the natives?

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 2:41 pm

        “In this rather interesting theory, how did the Jews get their missionaries to stay chaste over all these generations and not intermingle with the natives?”

        Uh, “JeffB”, that is a question that Zionists need to answer, not us.

      • YoniFalic
        April 16, 2017, 3:56 pm

        Judaic missionaries (generally) of convert non-Judean ancestry themselves frequently intermarried with converts. Ancient Judaism like Christianity afterward was a massively proselytizing religion. Slavo-Turks like @JeffB and me descend from the last major wave of conversion although conversion never ceased and minor waves of conversion continued into the 20th century in E Europe and the Czarist Empire. Ramatcal Raful Eitan descended from such a recent convert population.

    • Talkback
      April 10, 2017, 8:47 am

      @JeffB

      You really think that Palestinians are the descendendants of the Arab army which invaded Palestine? It is far more likely that there are Jews who converted to Islam.

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 9:30 am

        @Talkback

        They practice a religion that came from eastern not western arabia.
        They have a language descended from eastern not western arabia.
        They have a political ideology originating from eastern not western arabia.
        They lack the domestic understanding of history of Palestine, there was a historical break in cultural knowledge, which is why for example the belief that Judaea never existed is even possible.

        Yes they are the descendants of the invading population. Just to clarify I’m not terribly interested in the pure biology of the situation. An almost complete cultural collapse and replacement is all I’m claiming.

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 9:45 am

        @talkback

        Not letting me edit so adding on.

        But if one insists on talking pure biology then yes I think it is almost impossible that Palestinians are pure descendants of the Palestinians that existed prior to the Arab invasions. Too many people migrated in over the centuries as evidenced by the cultural changes.

        So if one found genetic markers of various invading groups that weren’t present in the Palestinian population of say 500 CE you would find them in Palestinians of 2017. Palestinians are humans and thus they breed like humans.

      • YoniFalic
        April 10, 2017, 11:29 am

        Palestinians descend from all the native populations of Palestine (including Arabs like the Herodians or Tobiads and including Greek Cleruchs and including many other groups).

        One key point is the following.

        E & C European Jews came as racist colonial setter invaders, who intended to steal the country and to commit genocide. They are still trying to complete the plan.

        They are perpetrators of crimes against humanity and must be so treated, and likewise are those who stand with them (under the international anti-genocide legal regime).

        The only connection of invading E European Jews like my family from the Ukraine consists purely of fiction and of historical misrepresentation.

        Likewise E European Christians have no ancestral connection to Palestine even though Christianity originates in Palestine.

        Another key point is the following.

        The white racist genocidal colonial setter invader population and its supporters must be treated as international criminals for international legal regimes like the anti-genocide regime or the anti-Apartheid regime to have any meaning.

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 3:15 pm

        “An almost complete cultural collapse and replacement is all I’m claiming.”

        “Rabbi, I read in the paper there’s going to be an “almost complete cultural collapse” in Palestine!”

        The Rabbi replies: “I have only one question: how convenient and how good for Zionism will that be?”

      • Mooser
        April 10, 2017, 3:17 pm

        “Palestinians are humans and thus they breed like humans.”

        Holy crap, “JeffB”! This means trouble. Where the hell does that leave us?

      • Talkback
        April 11, 2017, 10:12 am

        JeffB: “Yes they are the descendants of the invading population.”

        Nope, they are the descendants of the local population which was arabized during the Arab invasion.

  6. ckg
    April 10, 2017, 12:16 am

    Thanks, Phil. As someone with both transgender and Palestinian members of my immediate family, I thank you. I would never have expected that trans rights would become more accepted before Palestinian rights, so the struggle continues. Thank you, too, MW staff.

  7. Maghlawatan
    April 10, 2017, 1:05 am

    There was a lot of money and political power behind gay marriage and trans recognition. In the case of Israel/Palestine all the money and power is with the bigots.

  8. Ossinev
    April 10, 2017, 7:10 am

    @JeffB
    “That’s not at all the case with BDS which has an awful tone regarding Israel”

    I could have sworn I saw a tear drop on the screen when I was reading this.

  9. JeffB
    April 10, 2017, 2:04 pm

    @Yoni

    You are contradicting yourself:

    * Only a moron, ignoramus, or liar claims the natives, who descend from Greco-Roman Judeans are “just remnants from earlier invasions” (April 10, 2017, 1:58 am)

    * Palestinians descend from all the native populations of Palestine (including Arabs like the Herodians or Tobiads and including Greek Cleruchs and including many other groups). (April 10, 2017, 11:29 am)

    You are also contradicting yourself here:

    S1: I can very simply explain the logic of removing the white racist genocidal European invaders and their non-European lackeys from the Levant.
    S2: European Jews came as racist colonial setter invaders, who intended to steal the country and to commit genocide. They are still trying to complete the plan. They are perpetrators of crimes against humanity and must be so treated, and likewise are those who stand with them (under the international anti-genocide legal regime). (Both statements showing your belief that the descendants of genocidal invaders need to be ethnically cleansed)

    But of course in the above you acknowledge that the Palestinians descended from genocidal invaders. As for the international legal regime. The international legal regime rejects the concept of group guilt and genetic guilt both of which of which are key to your arguments. Under the international legal regime the descendants of “the invading E European Jews” are Israelis with the full rights to live in Israel in peace. What you are proposing is not enforcement but a total contradiction to the international legal regime. International law firmly rejects punishments for genetic guilt.

    And of course your proposal is an open invitation to unlimited genocide. Everyone, the entire species, is descended from 10,000 groups of genocidal invaders. Your very cells as does everyone else’s show evidence of these previous invasions.

    • Mooser
      April 10, 2017, 2:52 pm

      “And of course your proposal is an open invitation to unlimited genocide.”

      “Unlimited genocide”? Much better to swap it for a nice little genocide of people who don’t matter much.

      “Everyone, the entire species, is descended from 10,000 groups of genocidal invaders”

      Gee, then the best thing to do is be the biggest group! That must be why we Jews are still here.

      You’re spinning in ever-smaller circles, “JeffB”

      • JeffB
        April 10, 2017, 3:37 pm

        @Mooser

        Jews (including Ben Noach) were 10% of the Roman empire’s population. In most senses we aren’t still here. A tiny fragment survived to cross the finish line. And that’s mainly because we found niches to survive in.

        If there was any point of still being here it is Israel.

      • RoHa
        April 11, 2017, 2:56 am

        “If there was any point of still being here it is Israel.”

        The only point in being Jewish is Israel? And the point of Israel is being Jewish, with the two-handed cups, no Xmas, and a Jewish Army?

        For this absurdity Zionist commit their monstrous crimes!

      • Mooser
        April 11, 2017, 10:43 am

        “A tiny fragment survived to cross the finish line. And that’s mainly because we found niches to survive in.”

        And stayed “chaste” and avoided out-marriage. And waited for a chance to go back and take Palestine back.

        But then, something happened which charged us Jews with renewed strength, and we burst from our “niches” on to the world stage, and change the map of the world in our favor! Okay.

      • Mooser
        April 11, 2017, 11:10 am

        “If there was any point of still being here it is Israel.” “JeffB”

        “JeffB” you better talk to the Gentiles about that. They are the only ones who have the power to make Zionism a better choice for Jews.

        And they seem to have fallen down on the job, all of a sudden, and right after some of their best efforts at making Zionism a better choice, too.

        Even you, “JeffB”, have somehow found the will to go on with this pointless existence in the US.

    • talknic
      April 10, 2017, 7:11 pm

      @ JeffB April 10, 2017, 2:04 pm

      “The international legal regime rejects the concept of group guilt and genetic guilt … “

      Israel’s collective punishment of non-combatants seems to be at odds with the law

      “Under the international legal regime the descendants of “the invading E European Jews” are Israelis with the full rights to live in Israel in peace…”

      In Israeli territory. Which of course, to all but the Zionist poisoned mind, does not include Occupied Territories

      “What you are proposing is not enforcement but a total contradiction to the international legal regime. International law firmly rejects punishments for genetic guilt”

      Go tell your murderous Zionist pals pal..

      “And of course your proposal is an open invitation to unlimited genocide”

      Uh? European Jews can go live in Europe

  10. Mooser
    April 10, 2017, 3:06 pm

    “The international legal regime rejects the concept of group guilt and genetic guilt both of which of which are key to your arguments.”

    Whereas “genetic” entitlement is not a factor in Zionism? It’s a two-way street, “JeffB” this “genetics” stuff. You wanna play, you gotta pay.

    • JeffB
      April 10, 2017, 3:34 pm

      @Mooser

      When have you ever heard me make a genetic argument for Zionism? I have a 5 year track record of calling these genetic arguments racist crap across the board and stating unequivocally that racially (genetically) there are no differences between Palestinians and Mizrahi Jews.

      At least mock me for stuff I actually do.

      • talknic
        April 10, 2017, 6:53 pm

        @ JeffB Playing the Zionist accusation card

        Mooser didn’t say you made the argument.

        Acquiring citizenship under the Law of Return in the Zionist Movement’s state requires one to be Jewish from the mother’s side, thereby inheriting her genes

      • Mooser
        April 11, 2017, 10:33 am

        “When have you ever heard me make a genetic argument for Zionism?”

        That’s right, you explained that.
        It isn’t “genetics” it’s a “transactional” religious arrangement. And those always pay off.

      • Mooser
        April 11, 2017, 10:56 am

        “At least mock me for stuff I actually do.”

        “JeffB” I would be a complete churl to mock your typing. There may be a spelling or punctuation mistake in there, but I can’t find them as I scroll past.

        No, I cannot, without seeming ridiculous, mock for what you actually do. Your typing is nearly perfect.

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