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‘Why Ahed slapped the soldier’ –an interview with Bassem Tamimi

Israel/Palestine
on 42 Comments

This interview with Bassem Tamimi was recorded on May 4, 2018 in the occupied village of Nabi Saleh, by International Solidarity Movement activists.

His daughter Ahed Tamimi, 17, is serving an eight-month prison sentence for slapping an Israeli soldier on the family’s property on December 15 of last year, after Israeli soldiers shot her cousin in the face.

Bassem reflects on his daughter’s choice:

I think more than 300 times they raided inside my house… They took my electronic devices several times. They broke the windows several times. They shot most of my children several times. My son was arrested two times. My wife was arrested five times.  I was arrested nine times. I was tortured and be paralyzed for a period of time. My wife was shot in her leg, two years she couldn’t walk. My home is under a demolition order.

After all of that somebody asked, why Ahed slapped a soldier? She must slap the soldier.

Sometimes I feel there is a triple standard or more than in dealing with the Palestinian issue.

Also check out Tamimi’s comments on the two-state solution (a project of the Israeli left, and the Israeli left has disappeared) and the heart of the issue: a colonization project. Till the colonization project ends, the Palestinian resistance will not cease. And notice at the beginning when he shows visitors the surveillance balloon over Nabi Saleh.

You see that balloon watching us? It’s a camera for watching everything.

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42 Responses

  1. Citizen
    June 12, 2018, 2:20 pm

    Israel sure is a “light to the world.”

    • eljay
      June 12, 2018, 2:37 pm

      || Citizen: Israel sure is a “light to the world.” ||

      It’s also a “moral beacon” and a “Western-style democracy”…and less bad than Saudi Arabia, Mali, African “hellholes”, etc.

      • druid
        June 13, 2018, 11:35 am

        you’re right, the only places is t can be compared with is such countries as you’ve mentioned and North Korea, etc. Because it is essentially in their class

  2. Rob Roy
    June 12, 2018, 5:12 pm

    eljay: One must disprove Israeli propaganda every time it rears its head and fight back for the Palestinians. It’s almost laughable when Israelis (such as Golda Meir) say there is no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians. If there’s not, why are all the names of places in “Israel” Arabic (until they are stolen and renamed with Hebrew words)? If there were no Palestinians in Palestine, how could the terrorists who stole their land destroy the lives of 750,000 Palestinians in the Nakba? Why do Israelis 1) believe they are “god’s chosen people” and therefor superior to all others, especially Arabs? (Because they wrote the book?) 2) think they are the only victims of a holocaust and deny all other holocausts (such as the Armenian holocaust which, no matter how horrible the Jewish holocaust was, was even worse? 3) think Palestinians are less human than the Jews are?
    If Israel is a democracy, why can’t same sex couples get married? Why does Israel still have the odious “conversion therapy?” Why do any bills brought before the Knesset to better the lives of LGBTQ people not passed. Why do Palestinians always lose in the Israeli courts. Why can IDF soldiers shoot/murder anyone without consequence.
    Why does a girl get an exteme prison sentence for slapping a heavily armed soldier who was illegally on her property? Why don’t soldiers ever go to jail for their crimes?
    Why does the Israeli people stand by silently as the Palestinians are poisoned by filthy water (97% of their water is undrinkable). Why does no Israeli protest the shortage of medicines and electricity in Gaza and the West Bank. Why does Israel withhold funds belonging to Palestinians?
    Why are the Israeli so cruel. Why are IDF soldiers allowed to stink-bomb children’s schools? Why can the arrest children and question them without their parents..even kids who are still pre-school? Why can’t Palestinians get passports, or move freely about?
    Why don’t Israelis every cross over to Gaza or the West Bank and talk to the Palestinians?
    I could write all day. Israel is NOT a democracy.

    • American Perspective
      June 12, 2018, 6:14 pm

      I’m new to Mondoweiss, but okay if I take your questions as serious (rather than merely rhetorical)? I don’t want to overstep my welcome, but joining this site to debate with you folks would benefit us both – you’ll understand how others think, and maybe you’ll change my mind.

      “If there’s not, why are all the names of places in “Israel” Arabic (until they are stolen and renamed with Hebrew words)? If there were no Palestinians in Palestine, how could the terrorists who stole their land destroy the lives of 750,000 Palestinians in the Nakba?”

      You’re making a very dangerous conflation here between an Arabic identity and a “Palestinian” identity. Palestine, which is simply the traditional English-language term for Eretz Yisrael has been around since the Canaanites were defeated. Palestine has never been Arabic. There were some foreign Arabic-speakers and a tiny number of – for lack of a better term, “indigenous” Turks – who moved in the 1940s during various wars. The “Arabic names” you refer to are adaptations from Turkish which are adaptations from Latin/Greek which are adaptations from Hebrew.

      12 million Syria Arabians have moved in the past 5 years – population movements are common in Middle East wars. To describe the 1940s as some sort of “Nakba”, especially in light of what we’ve seen the Syrian Arabs do in the 2010s seems hyperbolic.

      “Why do Israelis 1) believe they are “god’s chosen people” and therefor superior to all others, especially Arabs? (Because they wrote the book?)”

      I don’t think the Arab nationalists living in Israel see themselves as “god’s chosen people”. For the Jews living in Israel, the idea of being an Am Hanivchar (a chosen people) is a common motif in their culture and religion. Everything else here about “superior to all others”, the existence of “Arabs”, etc . . . is so silly it doesn’t merit a response.

      “2) think they are the only victims of a holocaust and deny all other holocausts (such as the Armenian holocaust which, no matter how horrible the Jewish holocaust was, was even worse?”

      Which Israelis have “den[ied] all other holocausts”.

      “3) think Palestinians are less human than the Jews are?”

      Which Israelis think folks are “less human than the Jews” – you realize that more than a million Jews live in Palestine (and are therefore Palestinians), right?

      “If Israel is a democracy, why can’t same sex couples get married?”

      Because to appease the Moslems, the League of Nations mandatory adopted all existing laws – including the millet religious marital status system. None of the millet streams allow marriages of folks from the same gender. There has been no successful effort to change that system since Israel inherited the Mandate in 1948. I’m not sure if that has anything to do with democracy, though? Can you explain.

      “Why does Israel still have the odious “conversion therapy?””

      Who does “conversion therapy” in Israel? And what rules are they subject to? What does that have to do with democracy.

      “Why do any bills brought before the Knesset to better the lives of LGBTQ people not passed.”

      What bill do you want to have passed?

      “Why do Palestinians always lose in the Israeli courts.”

      I’m not sure why a foreigner would go to a court overseas to pursue her rights. But what specific cases are you talking about?

      “Why can IDF soldiers shoot/murder anyone without consequence.”

      Sovereign Immunity. The only recourse for a “shooting” or “murder” done by a country’s military is on the political level. The same sovereign immunity that the State of Palestine consistently and successfully claims for itself. The idea of sovereign immunity is deeply embedded in Islamic law as well.

      “Why does a girl get an exteme prison sentence for slapping a heavily armed soldier who was illegally on her property?”

      You see, you’re confusing things here. Specifically, you seem to be conflating your aspirational perspective (the soldier being there is “illegal”, the slapping is legal) with the actual law in place. The answer is that your aspirational hopes for what the law should be is different than the practical reality of what the law is.

      “Why don’t soldiers ever go to jail for their crimes?”

      Mentioned sovereign immunity above. I’m not sure what system you’re referring to where soldiers go to jail? Do you have examples of this?

      “Why does the Israeli people stand by silently as the Palestinians are poisoned by filthy water (97% of their water is undrinkable).”

      Israel built out the water infrastructure system in the 1970s. It no longer works because the government of Gaza had other priorities. That doesn’t mean folks are being “poisoned by filthy water” – they just don’t have use of kitchen water from the tap. Just like in most of the Middle East (and South Africa for that matter).

      That doesn’t mean people are being “poisoned” – it just means they no longer have access to home plumbing. Israelis don’t (and shouldn’t) see themselves as responsible for decisions made by the government Gaza with respect to water infrastructure.

      “Why does no Israeli protest the shortage of medicines and electricity in Gaza and the West Bank.”

      I’m not sure if that’s true. But what does medical infrastructure in Gaza and “the West Bank” have to do with Israelis?

      “Why does Israel withhold funds belonging to Palestinians?”

      Paris Accords. Signed by Arafat. It gave Israel discretion over tax withholdings paid by foreign workers from Palestine who work on the books in Israel.

      “Why are the Israeli so cruel.”

      Don’t stereotype. Unbecoming of you.

      “Why are IDF soldiers allowed to stink-bomb children’s schools?”

      Sovereign immunity.

      “Why can the arrest children and question them without their parents..even kids who are still pre-school?”

      That’s an operational question – practical realities of governing a national minority is difficult.

      “Why can’t Palestinians get passports, or move freely about?”

      Palestinians have had passports since the 1990s. Their passports allow them access to more countries than Israeli passports do.

      “Why don’t Israelis every cross over to Gaza or the West Bank and talk to the Palestinians?”

      Just randomly travel overseas and start talking to random people? Seems like a weird thing to do.

      • Annie Robbins
        June 12, 2018, 8:39 pm

        Palestine, which is simply the traditional English-language term for Eretz Yisrael has been around since the Canaanites were defeated

        you might want to google the entomology of فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn

        it might interest you to know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Etymology

        Timeline of the name “Palestine”

        The Greek toponym Palaistínē (Παλαιστίνη), with which the Arabic Filastin (فلسطين) is cognate, first occurs in the work of the 5th century BCE Greek historian Herodotus, where it denotes generally[66] the coastal land from Phoenicia down to Egypt.[67][68] Herodotus also employs the term as an ethnonym, as when he speaks of the ‘Syrians of Palestine’ or ‘Palestinian-Syrians’,[69] an ethnically amorphous group he distinguishes from the Phoenicians.[70][71] Herodotus makes no distinction between the Jews and other inhabitants of Palestine.[72]

        the very idea that it is “simply the traditional English-language term for Eretz Yisrael”, is utterly ridiculous.

        as for the rest of your comment, it’s not even worth my time. what a waste of bandwidth.

      • RoHa
        June 12, 2018, 11:21 pm

        “You’re making a very dangerous conflation here between an Arabic identity and a “Palestinian” identity.”

        Why is this dangerous? What does the “identity” matter?

        ” Palestine, which is simply the traditional English-language term for Eretz Yisrael”

        And bang goes your pretence of “American Perspective”. Americans don’t use the term “Eretz Yisrael”.

        “Palestine has never been Arabic. There were some foreign Arabic-speakers …”

        The place was full of Arabic speakers for centuries, and the culture was Arabic. That seems to make Palestine Arabic.
        Since most of those Arabic speakers were born there, they can’t really be called “foreign”.

      • MHughes976
        June 13, 2018, 5:13 am

        Herodotus’ detailed testimony (with Aristotle on the Dead Sea as ‘in Palestine’ backing him up) means that Palestine is the only fully attested pre-Roman name for Palestine, since Canaan was rather vague in application and became increasingly associated with our Lebanon – Beirut was claiming to be Mother in Canaan around 170 BCE. Not that everything Canaanite vanished in short order: Isaiah refers to the language in which he writes as ’of Canaan’. There is almost no pre-Roman authority in any language for Land of Israel. The Bible’s theological view is that there is no land of Israel in the normal sense, only a donation by God made outside the normal rules to Israel, but in the land of Canaan. Palestine was the name that had, by Herodotus’ time, reasserted itself as other names faded away. But it is centuries older than Herodotus, found for instance in the inscription of the Assyrian King Adad-nirari about 800 BCE.

      • American Perspective
        June 13, 2018, 9:30 am

        Annie – Herodotus didn’t write in English.

        After defeating the Caliphate, the League of Nations used “Palestine” in English to refer to Southern Syria. But in Hebrew, the Mandatory simple used Palaestina – Eretz Yisrael.

        You can read all about it in the lawsuit brought by your folks in the 1920s. Some Turks protested the use of the Jewish term “Palestine” (adapted into Turkish Arab as “Filistin”), which is just an English translation of Eretz Yisrael.

        Fascinating case.

        RoHa – “why does identity matter”?

        The whole agenda of Mondoweiss is to promote Arab nationalism and provide a forum to discuss how to make Palestine as “authentically” “Arabic” as possible.

        The whole “Palestinian Cause” is an ethnic political movement where identity – a non-existent one I would argue – is central to everything in the world. How can you even ask that?

      • Mooser
        June 13, 2018, 12:28 pm

        as for the rest of your comment, it’s not even worth my time. what a waste of bandwidth

        Pro-Israel commenters have an incalculable advantage in debate. Unlike anybody else, they have no need to think about what they say, or how they say it.
        Why, the more a-factual, the more morally and legally reprehensible their representations of Israel and Zionism are, the better. It shows unquenchable ardor, devotion to the cause and its myths. Either way, they win. Just ask them.

      • inbound39
        June 13, 2018, 12:34 pm

        American Perspective……..are you aware that prior to Ottaman Rule, where Israel sits now was once part of Syria. I suggest you read history before you spout nonsense.

      • MHughes976
        June 13, 2018, 12:39 pm

        Annie gives Herodotus’ Greek, so clearly doesn’t think he wrote in English. A translated name, rather than a name equivalent in application, is a rather unusual thing. We put Herodotus’ name into the Roman alphabet, transliterate it, but we do not usually translate it, ie say ‘GiftofHera tells us that some Syrians live in Palestine’. We do not always know the meaning of names, in the sense of the descriptive term which gives rise to it. The beautiful name ‘Palestine’ is of debated meaning – I like to think it means ‘Land of Hearth and Home’, from an equivalent to the Greek hestia = hearth but maybe that’s wishful thinking. There is also debate over what meaning may underlie ‘Canaan’ and indeed ‘Israel’, which I rather think (presumptuously think. maybe) is a theological term deliberately conveying ambiguity = ‘one who struggles for God’/‘one who struggles with God’, corresponding to the story of the ambiguous hero Jacob and indeed to the role of the children of Israel throughout the historical Biblical narratives.
        English did adopt ‘Palestine’ as the name for Palestine for secular purposes, as in the Palestine Exploration Society founded by Queen Victoria, though for many centuries ‘the Holy Land’ has been in use also. But the meaning underlying the name ‘Palestine’, whether or not it is about hearth and home, is certainly not about Israel. The only English translation of ‘Eretz Israel’ is ‘Land of Israel’.

      • eljay
        June 13, 2018, 1:10 pm

        || inbound39: American Perspective……..are you aware that prior to Ottaman Rule, where Israel sits now was once part of Syria. … ||

        Seeing as how s/he thinks Israelis have to “travel overseas” to get to the West Bank and Gaza, I’m going to guess “no”.

      • American Perspective
        June 13, 2018, 1:45 pm

        Inbound – Mehmet Ali was a white Albanian who strongly identified as European. His proudest achievement was the introduction of French educational methods. He annexed Palestine to European-oriented Egypt; not to Arabic-oriented Syria.

        So when the Turks re-conquered Palestine from him in the 1850s, I think the local residents of the Khedive would have been bemused to learn that they were really Syrian Arabs.

        The Turks made the Mutasarrifate report directly to Constantinople because the locals folks in Palestine would never agree to have a connection with what they saw as a backward, Bedu culture of Arabia.

      • Mooser
        June 13, 2018, 2:34 pm

        ” Mehmet Ali was a white Albanian”

        “A white Albanian”?

      • RoHa
        June 14, 2018, 2:37 am

        “The whole agenda of Mondoweiss is to promote Arab nationalism and provide a forum to discuss how to make Palestine as “authentically” “Arabic” as possible.

        The whole “Palestinian Cause” is an ethnic political movement where identity – a non-existent one I would argue – is central to everything in the world. ”

        Piffle.

        For the MW agenda, see the “About” page, which no-one aside from Mooser has read.

        For many of the commenters, our agenda is justice for a bunch of individuals who have been deprived of their rights, who are killed, or driven out of their homes, who have their property stolen, who are oppressed. This has been going on since the days when the only people who had identities changed them in telephone boxes.

      • Danaa
        June 14, 2018, 4:26 am

        I don’t think the Arab nationalists living in Israel see themselves as “god’s chosen people”. For the Jews living in Israel, the idea of being an Am Hanivchar (a chosen people) is a common motif in their culture and religion.

        I have news for you! everyone sees themselves as god’s chosen people, because, by definition, their god chose them. The Jews (some of them) and all israelis feel “chosen” in the same way that every cult members from like, forever, felt both chosen, and persecuted for being chosen.

        Of course they have “chosen” as a motif. That’s the critical aspect of cult life and, of course, tribalism. You do know, the japanese people feel quite chosen – and indeed superior – to other cultures, because well, they are japanese. The Chinese feel similarly about their culture. And the Inkas and the mayas felt very chosen over all others, which is what justified them colonizing and brutalizing others around them.

        Still, I love your argument because i’s like cannon fodder to me. Please do come back and give me more! extra bullets! the store is a bit low at the moment as I seem to have run out, shooting this and that way. But yours are great, may be because you are new here and don’t realize we have gone over these grounds many times over. So to see you, a naif, state it all so simply, so succintly, so straightforwardly is a joy to behold.

        But just to make sure I catch it all, here is another one for the books:

        Sovereign Immunity. The only recourse for a “shooting” or “murder” done by a country’s military is on the political level. The same sovereign immunity that the State of Palestine consistently and successfully claims for itself. The idea of sovereign immunity is deeply embedded in Islamic law as well.

        So, according to you, the Palestinians can claim soverign immunity for shooting any settler and/or taking their pathetic settlements over, swimming pools and all. Now, could you please serve as their lawyer on this matter? clearly, it can’t be “terrorism” if it’s “soverign”. I am beginning to kind of like you, actually.

        More of the same, please.

      • American Perspective
        June 14, 2018, 10:20 am

        Danaa:

        Yes.

        Since the 1700s (and since the Islamic Capitulations in the 7th and then 19th Century) Sovereign Immunity has been a basic aspect of the international world order. When supporters of the government of the State of Palestine raped children in Rochdale, or the Israeli army attacked Gaza, or the government of the State of Palestine conquered Aleppo – the sole recourse for folks who disagreed with those action is on a political level.

        Yeah, from time to time there will be prosecutions (to avoid unrest, the UK is going through the motions of prosecuting some of the pro-Palestine activists – that’s what tipped off the whole Tommy Robinson drama); there’s occasional talk about using the International Criminal Court to prosecute individual Israeli and Palestinian politicians and soldiers (although after the Bemba ruling, that’s impossible).

        But as our Supreme Court re-affirmed last month by not taking Certiorari in Sokolow v. PLO; when a government actor behaves in a way you don’t like, the sole recourse is political. War, negotiations, sanctions, allyship – those are political responses to sovereign acts. Governments can do whatever they like unless they face a successful political challenge.

        When the government of the State of Palestine shoots rockets across its borders against a foreign country, the response was a blockade and political pressure. That’s how Sovereign Immunity works – instead of brawling in the parking lot, governments make political decisions about how to respond.

        You see that here. Nobody changes American policy by protesting. Ask the pro-Ba’athist movement in the early 2000s, or the pro-Open Borders crowd during the Trump administration how that worked out for them.

        Political problems require political solutions.

      • Mooser
        June 14, 2018, 4:10 pm

        “For the MW agenda, see the “About” page, which no-one aside from Mooser has read.”

        Well, I’m sure lots of people have read it (I frequently recommend and link it), but sometimes it seems nobody believes it.

      • Mooser
        June 14, 2018, 4:17 pm

        Danaa, I just made up a joke, I think.

        1st Zionist: “How do you tell if food is kosher?”
        2nd Zionist: “That’s easy! You throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.”

      • Danaa
        June 14, 2018, 6:54 pm

        American Perspective:
        When the government of the State of Palestine shoots rockets across its borders against a foreign country, the response was a blockade and political pressure.

        Couple of points:

        1. There is no State of Palestine, last I saw. Gaza has its own government and the West bank is only allowed something called “palestinian Authority”, a far cry from a state. Israel to the Palestinians of gaza, in particular, is no “foreign country”. It is a country, yes, but one that evicted them and shut them off in a ghetto. israel is as foreign a country to them as the Polish government of warsaw was foreighn to the Ghetto residents. Just because one is closed into a ghetto (something that happened long before any rockets were flying any which way) does not make the residents foreign.

        Rather the appropriate terminology is one of “conflict”, of the kind people who are colonized have with their colonizers. So the colonized fight back, and if the the colonizers are much stronger, as Israel is, then naturally, such fight backs are doomed. At least on a battlefield.

        2. By your very own argument, since victory on the battlefield is not a possibility for the Palestinians, then political response is all they got. That and demonstrations that bring the struggle of the oppressed to the attention of an otherwise indifferent and busy world.

        So the Palestinians did respond politically. they got the UN condemnation – essentially by a vast majority of the world’s countries. They also capably elevated their hopeless struggle to a martyrdom, scoring significant PR victory across the globe. By their dead and wounded they have become humanized, as much as israel keeps trying to lump them all under the label of “Hamas, something, something”.

        Therefore the Gazans struggle for Human Rights – it bhaving a distinct political dimension, even if Gaza is far from a “sovereign” entity – should receive your whole-hearted approval.

        As I said in my other comment, they, the Palestinians, could do worse than hiring you as their lawyer.

      • Danaa
        June 14, 2018, 6:57 pm

        Mooser – that’s a funny joke indeed. Three lines that say [almost] all hat I tried to say in 5 long paragraphs.

        I shall learn…..eventually?

      • American Perspective
        June 14, 2018, 9:15 pm

        Danaa:

        1. If the State of Palestine doesn’t exist, then you better let the UN’s chemical weapons treaty organization know, because Palestine just joined. If the State of Palestine doesn’t exist, we better reverse the vote that Palestine whipped this week, just to re-affirm that they are the most militarily powerful country on earth.

        Simply put, the Arab nationalists won in 1988 when they won their state through military conquest. Everything since then has been hubristic overreach.

        2. I’m not going to question your motives, I’ll just note that its flat-out weird to compare Gaza to 1940s Central Europe. Its not the 1940s and Gaza isn’t in Europe.

        A better analogy would be to the Islamic occupation of Cyprus. Or, if you’re so inclined, the world’s largest open air prison (Arab Republic of Yemen). And in both those cases the existence of some technical “Occupation” under international law (which is irrelevant) doesn’t change the sovereignty of the local government.

        Gaza chose.

        * serious question, how did the situation in Gaza bring to your mind 1940s Poland? Are you of Polish or Central European Heritage whereby the trauma of the Holocaust informs how you look at all border disputes? Because if it does, you’ll end up with a delusional understanding of events in Palestine. Far-right hardliners of Mondoweiss aren’t serving their cause by obsessing about the early 20th Century in Europe. It will lead you to very poor analysis of the actual situation on the ground.

      • American Perspective
        June 14, 2018, 9:31 pm

        RoHa:

        Yeah . . . no.

        I’m not buying it. Nobody seriously thinks the hardliners here on Mondoweiss are motivated by sympathy for some human rights cause.

        The petty grievances of the far-right ethnic nationalists in Palestine pale in comparison to the grievances of the Alt-Right, the minorities in Mexico, the Nation of Islam and folks far closer to home who complain about government abuse. Arab nationalism is about “authenticity” and restoring the historic glories of the medieval, Arabic-speaking Empires. It’s not about human rights.

        And if you think the petty grievances of the Western Asian and Southern Mediterranean underclass is the most important human rights issue of the day; then the occupied Cypriots, Sawahiris and Yemenis have a much more sympathetic human rights claim to your attention.

        Listen – I don’t begrudge you your desire to promote Arab nationalism in Palestine. But I’m certainly not going to take seriously the claim that the Mondoweiss crowd is motivated by a human rights motive. That’s a very silly idea.

      • Jethro
        June 14, 2018, 10:52 pm

        @”American Perspective”

        Nobody seriously thinks the hardliners here on Mondoweiss are motivated by sympathy for some human rights cause.

        You’re quite confused. Human rights in Palestine is exactly what most here are interested in. Why? I’ll paraphrase Jerry Haber:

        There are people here whose lives are directly impacted by Israel’s actions in the Palestinian controlled territories. Some of them are of Palestinian descent; others may have relatives on the West Bank and Gaza. Some of them are Israelis who support this symbolic gesture. Then there are roommates, friends, and ordinary people who sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians under occupation. Some are Jews of conscience who reject what Israel does in their names.

        To suggest that these people should be more concerned with the plight of the “occupied Cypriots, Sawahiris and Yemenis” or the Alt Right (did you really say that?) than with their own people is dehumanizing and inconsistent; dehumanizing, because it is human to care most about those who are closest to you; inconsistent, because the partisans making this charge (that would be you, “American Perspective”) clearly are themselves concerned more with defending Israel than with much worse human rights violations.

        http://www.jeremiahhaber.com

      • American Perspective
        June 15, 2018, 9:15 am

        Jethro:

        The profoundly immoral cause of Arab nationalism does not become “halal” because it is advocated by an Orthodox American Jew. The illegitimate grievances do not become “Kosher” because someone wrote a blog.

        Nobody seriously thinks that the far-right hardliners here on Mondoweiss or the Arab nationalist movement in general is motivated by “human rights”. That’s an absolutely ridiculous idea – Arab nationalists societies have, for a Century, have had the most anti-human rights records imaginable.

        I refer specifically to the Arab nationalist alliance with Communism, Jihad, Leftism, anti-Amerinism, the Juche idea, anti-colonialism, etc . . . I’ll leave WWII off the table because it’s a touchy issue with you revisionists. There is no way to square Arab nationalism with Human Rights.

        If you guys truly love the State of Palestine and are committed to her ethnic purity you would be better served by being honest.

        Okay – let’s call your bluff! 40% of the West Bank and Jerusalem are Hebrew speaking folks who identify as Jewish. What have the far-right hardliners here on Mondoweiss (who are motivated by human rights, amirite?) done to ensure the State of Palestine is welcoming and tolerant and inclusive of its Jewish population?

        If you care about human rights why aren’t 40% of the PLC Jewish? Why isn’t the State of Palestine demanding that Hebrew be made an official language at the UN?

        Yeah – I thought so. So cut out the “human rights” bullsh!t. No point promoting 1960s rhetoric that nobody on any side believes.

      • oldgeezer
        June 15, 2018, 2:11 pm

        ap: “The petty grievances of the far-right ethnic nationalists in Palestine pale in comparison to the grievances of the Alt-Right”

        Tom Corbett has come to life.

      • Mooser
        June 15, 2018, 3:05 pm

        Old Yiddish saying:

        “Scratch the all-rightnik and you’ll find an alt-Right nut.”

      • echinococcus
        June 17, 2018, 6:56 pm

        from an equivalent to the Greek hestia = hearth but maybe that’s wishful thinking.

        You can be sure it is. See much earlier documented name transcribed Peleset or at least plst; and how would we explain Palαιστινη from hestia way before the loss of diphthongs, and where would be the trace of the loss of aspiration?

        Unimportant anyway.

    • eljay
      June 12, 2018, 7:06 pm

      || Rob Roy: eljay: One must disprove Israeli propaganda every time it rears its head and fight back for the Palestinians. … I could write all day. Israel is NOT a democracy. ||

      I agree. It’s a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”…and a colonialist and (war) criminal one at that.

    • zaid
      June 13, 2018, 2:57 pm

      “There were some foreign Arabic-speakers and a tiny number of – for lack of a better term, “indigenous” Turks – who moved in the 1940s during various wars. ”

      This is pure Zionist myths.

      Palestine (Filasteen in Arabic) have been Arabic speaking since Islam came 1400 year ago.
      The indigenous population who lived there converted to Islam and adopted the Islamic and Arabic culture and language and they are the modern day Palestinians.
      The myth of mass immigration to Palestine in the 19th or 20th century is debunked by all serious historians and does not fit with the Ottoman or British census of the region.

      Modern Genetics, Archaeology and History proves that Palestinians are descendants of the people who lived in Palestine for thousands of year and that Ashkenazim Jews are descendants of Turkish Khazars.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478715/

      https://muse.jhu.edu/article/191693/pdf

      “The “Arabic names” you refer to are adaptations from Turkish which are adaptations from Latin/Greek which are adaptations from Hebrew.”

      Wrong , most of Palestinian cities and towns have pure Arabic names (like ALKhalil, Ramallah, Alquds (Jerusalem)) and the remaining have Canaanite names like Bethlehem.

      “12 million Syria Arabians have moved in the past 5 years – population movements are common in Middle East wars. ”

      Wrong again the total number of Syrian refugees doesnot even reach half this number, and unlike the Nazi regime of Israel the Syrian government will allow them to return to their cities and towns when the war ends (already started to happen).

      “I don’t think the Arab nationalists living in Israel see themselves as “god’s chosen people”.

      Because Palestinians are not racist.

      ” For the Jews living in Israel, the idea of being an Am Hanivchar (a chosen people) is a common motif in their culture and religion.”

      Because Israelis are racist.

      “Which Israelis think folks are “less human than the Jews” ”

      Most of them , and their rabbis does not hide this belief.

      https://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-rabbi-non-jews-shouldnt-be-allowed-to-live-in-israel/

      https://www.jta.org/2010/10/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/sephardi-leader-yosef-non-jews-exist-to-serve-jews

      “Which Israelis have “den[ied] all other holocausts”.”

      Most of them and they all deny the Nakba which is the holocaust that was committed by them.

      “Because to appease the Moslems, the League of Nations mandatory adopted all existing laws – including the millet religious marital status system. None of the millet streams allow marriages of folks from the same gender. There has been no successful effort to change that system since Israel inherited the Mandate in 1948. I’m not sure if that has anything to do with democracy, though? Can you explain”

      This is not a serious answer, Israel can make and change laws if they wanted to.

      “What bill do you want to have passed?”

      This one:

      https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ministers-vote-down-gay-rights-bills-on-eve-of-lgbt-rights-day-1.5438468

      “Sovereign Immunity. The only recourse for a “shooting” or “murder” done by a country’s military is on the political level. The same sovereign immunity that the State of Palestine consistently and successfully claims for itself. The idea of sovereign immunity is deeply embedded in Islamic law as well.”

      Gibberish, its called murder and it is a war crime.

      “You see, you’re confusing things here. Specifically, you seem to be conflating your aspirational perspective (the soldier being there is “illegal”, the slapping is legal) with the actual law in place. The answer is that your aspirational hopes for what the law should be is different than the practical reality of what the law is.”

      International law is clear, the girl have the right to slap the soldier and even kill him.he is an occupier and he doesnot have the right to exists in the Palestinian territories,

      “Israel built out the water infrastructure system in the 1970s. It no longer works because the government of Gaza had other priorities”

      Wrong again, It no longer works because Israel bombed it and it doesnot allow rebuilding it.

      “Israelis don’t (and shouldn’t) see themselves as responsible for decisions made by the government Gaza with respect to water infrastructure.”

      They are responsible under international law because 1- Gaza is still occupied .2-Gaza is under Israel blockade. 3- Most Gazanas are refugees from inside the green line and Israel is violating international law by not allowing them to return to their ancestor homeland.

      “I’m not sure if that’s true. But what does medical infrastructure in Gaza and “the West Bank” have to do with Israelis?”

      Thy are responsible because they are the occupiers and they control everything.

      “Paris Accords. Signed by Arafat. It gave Israel discretion over tax withholdings paid by foreign workers from Palestine who work on the books in Israel.”

      Stop lying, where in the Paris accord does it say that Israel can withhold taxes that belongs to the Palestinians?

      ““Why are IDF soldiers allowed to stink-bomb children’s schools?”
      Sovereign immunity.”

      It is a war crime and you are justifying it, Unbecoming of you.

      “That’s an operational question – practical realities of governing a national minority is difficult.”

      Palestinians are the majority now, update your info. and humans have rights regardless of the [practical realities of the occupying regime.

      “Palestinians have had passports since the 1990s. Their passports allow them access to more countries than Israeli passports do.”

      Wrong, Palestinian cannot leave or re enter without the permission of Israel .

      “Just randomly travel overseas and start talking to random people? Seems like a weird thing to do.”

      It is not random and it is not overseas, Israelis occupy the Palestinians remember, and Israeli doesnot interact with them because Israelis are predominately racist .

      https://972mag.com/poll-israelis-support-discrimination-against-arabs-embrace-the-term-apartheid/58258/

      you are new and your comments are always filled with false claims and very naive responses.

  3. biggerjake
    June 13, 2018, 10:48 am

    American Perspective

    Since you are supposedly new to Mondoweiss I’m going to let you in on a little secret.

    All of the crap that you are trying to foist off on us in your screed has been offered up and debunked dozens of times on these pages. None of the lies and Zionist talking points that you are presenting are new. Your penchant for answering questions with another question is a lame rhetorical game that just wastes the reader’s time.

    You see, many of the people who post here regularly really care about the plight of the Palestinians and have studied the issue from every angle for years. They are true experts…lawyers, professors and other professionals who have spent years reading and researching everything to do with Palestine, the Palestinians, the law and the history of the region. And unlike you, when they present their points they site documents and references and even attach links.

    Very often the comment section has as much or more real information as do the articles.
    So why don’t you do us a favor and take your Zionist message and your Hasbara trolling someplace else. We have seen it all before….

    • American Perspective
      June 13, 2018, 11:34 am

      Thanks, biggerjake, for your welcome!

      I’ll try to avoid the reality (or event appearance) of trolling. But admit it – you guys love having a little dissent thrown in once in a while, amirite? Doesn’t it sharpen your own thinking to read about how others see the world?

      • Mooser
        June 13, 2018, 2:45 pm

        “But admit it – you guys love having a little dissent thrown in once in a while, amirite?”

        What on earth are you ‘dissenting’ from? You could be, as many are noting, one of several past posters under a new name. You are not hewing away from their orthodoxy by an inch. It’s the old ‘alt-Right, I know I’m White, Zionist lite’ line.

      • biggerjake
        June 13, 2018, 4:37 pm

        American Perspective

        “But admit it – you guys love having a little dissent thrown in once in a while, amirite?”

        Hmmm…. let me think about that for a minute….

        No.

        Oh maybe it was interesting the first 200 times…interesting to see how the same lies could be expressed in so many different ways.

        “There is no such thing as Palestine.”

        “If there was a Palestine it was called that by mistake.”

        “The land called Palestine was empty until the Jewish colonizers arrived.”

        “ If there were a few Arabs in Palestine before 1920, they were just uneducated peasants.”

        “Israel made the desert bloom…”

        “God promised this land to the Jews.”

        “God doesn’t exist… but he promised us this land..” (that’s my personal favorite)

        “The Jews of Israel are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews…( even though DNA analysis says the Palestinians are actually closer descendants of the ancient inhabitants of Palestine)…

        …and then there’s the whole United Nations thing… we like this resolution but we don’t like that resolution…

        ..and then there’s Hamas…. If they would only say Israel has a right to exist…

        …2000 Gazans killed, 400 of them children… oh but Israel has a right to defend itself

        65 more Gazans killed by Israel snipers, some of them medics, women, children, journalists… but they got too close to the wall (which is on Gaza’s land….)

        League of Nations…the Oslo accords….Israel was attacked in 1948 and 1967…Jews were thrown out of Iraq…the Ottoman empire… Palestinians are terrorists but not Israelis….It’s all the fault of the government of Gaza….tunnels… Blah, blah blah.

        We have heard it all.

      • biggerjake
        June 13, 2018, 4:38 pm

        “But admit it – you guys love having a little dissent thrown in once in a while, amirite?”

        Hmmm…. let me think about that for a minute….

        No.

        Oh maybe it was interesting the first 200 times…interesting to see how the same lies could be expressed in so many different ways.

        “There is no such thing as Palestine.”

        “If there was a Palestine it was called that by mistake.”

        “The land called Palestine was empty until the Jewish colonizers arrived.”

        “ If there were a few Arabs in Palestine before 1920, they were just uneducated peasants.”

        “Israel made the desert bloom…”

        “God promised this land to the Jews.”

        “God doesn’t exist… and he promised us this land..” (that’s my personal favorite)

        “The Jews of Israel are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews…( even though DNA analysis says the Palestinians are actually closer descendants of the ancient inhabitants of Palestine)…

        …and then there’s the whole United Nations thing… we like this resolution but we don’t like that resolution…

        ..and then there’s Hamas…. If they would only say Israel has a right to exist…

        …2000 Gazans killed, 400 of them children… oh but Israel has a right to defend itself

        65 more Gazans killed by Israel snipers, some of them medics, women, children, journalists… but they got too close to the wall (which is on Gaza’s land….)

        League of Nations…the Oslo accords….Israel was attacked in 1948 and 1967…Jews were thrown out of Iraq…the Ottoman empire… Palestinians are terrorists but not Israelis….It’s all the fault of the government of Gaza….tunnels… Blah, blah blah.

        We have heard it all.

      • inbound39
        June 13, 2018, 4:50 pm

        American Perspective you are free to view the world in a distorted view…….Goebels always said that repeating a lie often enough ends up being believed. Problem is that when you start believing your own lies your thinking detaches from reality. This is the big Zionist problem….they believe their own lies.

        I’ll help you to get grounded……….Syria Palaestina was a Roman province between 135 AD and about 390.[1] It was established by the merger of Roman Syria and Roman Judaea, following the defeat of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 CE. Shortly after 193, the northern regions were split off as Syria Coele in the north and Phoenice in the south, and the province Syria Palaestina was reduced to Judea.[citation needed] The earliest numismatic evidence for the name Syria Palaestina comes from the period of emperor Marcus Aurelius.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina

    • Danaa
      June 14, 2018, 4:36 am

      >biggerjake, Good points, but for the record, I actually like the types of “American Perspectives” to walk in now and then. yes, it was all hashed over several times, and then some. Still, he makes some staggeringly fantastic “new” points that are not really new but have not been stated as clearly before. Like that ‘chosen” bit, which, well, tempted me to come out of the woodworks an”d chomp on for a bite.

      Heck, we need these types now and then. Their groundless, warmed over arguments, their shilling for the chosen, masked as a new form of fuzzy logic. If not for them, we would all have melted into a pool of stupifyng agreement, no?

      Also, some of the points he made, if points they can be called, are the very ones Israelis make – time and again – to themselves and to their friends and family, and its all over their social media too. So it may be good to see sometimes, if a touch exasperating.

      • biggerjake
        June 14, 2018, 9:40 am

        I suppose you’re right.

        I do so love it when some of the brilliantly informed like you, eljay, Mooser, Harry Law, RoHa, MHughes, Annie and all the rest SHRED the Hasbara trolls who dump their lies on Mondoweiss.

  4. Elizabeth Block
    June 13, 2018, 1:18 pm

    Why do Jewish Israelis think Palestinians are less human than they are?
    That’s easy. If you mistreat people all the time, you have to persuade yourself that they deserve what you do to them.
    Jews of all people should know this. But (I’m paraphrasing Upton Sinclair) it is difficult to make someone understand something, when their continued domination of the country they live in requires them NOT to understand it.

    • eljay
      June 13, 2018, 1:40 pm

      || Elizabeth Block: Why do Jewish Israelis think Palestinians are less human than they are? … ||

      Zionist Israelis are supremacists, so it’s no surprise that they consider Palestinians to be “lesser” human beings.

      • oldgeezer
        June 15, 2018, 8:58 pm

        Well Miki Zohar MK considers all other peoples as inferior to the Jewish people and says so publicly. He’s just a MK or course.

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