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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Just one objection Phil, to this great essay. "to transform Israel with a flood of returning refugees," - here you are taken by ZioSpeak, which equates a rightful return of refugees to their homes with an infestation of the Jewish State with invading goyim.
Supporting the inalienable right of refugees to return to their homes does not stem from a political agenda of transforming Israel. There was never any legitimate Jewish majority in the land but rather one that was achieved through ethnic cleansing so a return to the pre-ethnic cleansing population makeup of the land is not "transforming Israel" but rather compliance with international law, the Geneva Convention and UN resolutions - I don't see a reason to make exceptions.
Let's also not forget the fact that Israel was established through ethnic cleansing and the prevention of refugees from returning to their homes. In fact, the powers that are the "international community", i.e. the West, have been complicit and have turned a blind eye to the refugees for 64 years now, preferring to finance the problem instead of solving it, just like they are doing now with the occupation.
Israel should never have been admitted to the UN and no country should have recognized this rogue state as long as it prevented refugees from returning to their homes.
Let's face it: Israel has always been a criminal gang under the guise of a state: it was created by criminal gangs and ethnic cleansers who even assassinated UN envoys. And just like any criminal gang, it views itself as not bound by treaties, the laws of warfare or humanity in general.
There are two very simple explanations:
For one, Israel's crimes are nothing but minor: both ethnic cleansing and apartheid are recognized as crimes against humanity, i.e. the most severe crimes a state can engage in, on par with genocide - and they have been going on since Israel's establishment at various intensities and levels.
The second one of course is that if there was a worldwide boycott or sanctions against it, we wouldn't have to be so active in raising consciousness and calling for sanctions. And since Israel's government is elected, Israelis cannot even claim that a mad dictator is carrying out these policies without their consent. In essence, it's the most justified boycott where the entire populace is accomplice to these crime.
The double standard is glaring: when Saddam invaded Kuwait it didn't take more than a few weeks before the US, under the pretext of enforcing international law, organized a coalition and drove him out. With Israel, it's quite the opposite - if anything the US will send troops to defend Israel's occupation of its neighbors lands...
It is sad that someone views his only way to maintain his identity is to do it on the expense of others and in a formalized system of apartheid (hence his choice to live in the OT). I personally think that if your identity needs to be defined by oppressing and dispossessing other people, it's probably a psychopathic identity, one that should be discouraged rather than fought for.
The headline is so obvious I don't even bother reading the content. What else? In a country where a political candidate cannot criticize Israel without committing political suicide, all they are left to do is compete on who loves Israel more.
There's no point debating Zionists who have been inculcated since birth with that belief system - believe me, I tried. But regular Americans definitely can be swayed once they are provided with facts and told the history of Palestine and the essence of the Jewish state. And of course, America is the key because without its unconditional support, Israel would not be able to carry out those policies.
Debating Zionists is like debating the flat earth society. As if you need quotes and proofs for something which is obvious even to a five year old: you can't create a Jewish state on a land populated by a vast majority of non-Jews without ethnically cleansing them. The fact that these flat earthers deny the very essence of the dispossession and ethnic cleansing project in Palestine which aims to create a Jewish Lebensraum just proves that these people cannot be reasoned with.
Phil, you could have been a bit more creative and used a tongue in cheek approach to mock the groveling of American politicians at the feet of the apartheid state of Israel:
"Mr. Romney, since you said you would ask Netanyahu what to do with regards to Middle East policy, why not make a shortcut - will you let Mr. Netanyahu command the US military?"
"Mr. Romney, would you double the military aid to Israel and provide free Kosher food for all Jews of the world when you are president?"
"Mr. Romney, do you vow to exterminate all Palestinians or at least invade an Arab state or two of our choice?"
if the answer is no to any of those, then accuse him of antisemitism and that he doesn't love Israel enough.
Israel / Palestinians is a "conflict between two nations" the same way that Germany was merely "a conflict between Aryans and Jews" (in which Jews lost). Gosh Zionists with their ridiculous world view. What planet do you live on? There are no "equal sides to a conflict". There is an oppressor and oppressed, occupier and occupied, ethnic cleanser and ethnic cleansed.
something quite ironic and perhaps symbolic of this attempt to sugarcoat Israel's horrific past and present is the fact that the group in the second photo are standing on the ruins of the ethnically cleansed and razed Mugrabi neighborhood, whose houses were bulldozed in 1967 with their residents still inside in some cases.
China has a policy of integration of Tibet, which is legitimate, as opposed to Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing and dispossession, which is not legitimate. Tibetans are equal citizens of China and just like with Turkey/Kurds, tries to integrate and repress separatist tendencies. That's why the comparison to China only harms Israel since Israel's policies are much worse and can be regarded as a crime against humanity.
Mr. Steinhart can use his billions to buy territory from Canada or Argentina and create a Jewish homeland there. Palestine was and is populated by non-Jews, so your "necessary refuge" is just another colonial dispossession project. Even better, Steinhart can use his mighty influence and money to harness the entire American Jewish community to lobby the US government to declare New York a Jewish homeland. He has no business in promoting a Jewish homeland on top of other people's land and villages in Palestine.
That's probably one of the greatest comments written on MW. Indeed, the Zionist project is a result and the manifestation of a Jewish identity crisis of secular Jews.
Quite entertaining watching a white American claiming to be indigenous to Palestine....
LOL. Or the pizza analogy comes to mind.
If Bibi adopts these "findings" it means that Israel is not only de-facto an apartheid state but also de-jure.
The colonization and land theft under a facade of "legality" and an Orwellian subversion of justice is also what characterized the S. Africa apartheid regime.
Why is this apologetic tone? The vile people who support Israel's apartheid should be apologetic, not you. Those "supporters of Israel" are nothing but Apartheid and ethnic cleansing supporters. Israel is a racist, colonial, illegitimate entity that was created through the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and continues to oppress and dispossess non-Jews for generations.
Those who object to Israel's despicable policies should never apologize for stating the truth. If you do, they will want more and more contrition and feel vindicated, whereas they are the ones who should be hiding in shame.
It's time that those supporters of that apartheid state moved on the defense, not you.
Israel's longest serving prime minister was a terrorist, ethnic cleanser and assassin of a UN envoy. I guess that's par for the course for the Jewish State.
Fredblogs, you might as well tell us stories from Baron Munchausen and Greek mythology because your Zionist mythology stories have just as much credibility. The Palestinians are not descendents of Arabs from the Arabian peninsula in the same way that Egyptians are not descendents of Arabs from the Arabian peninsula.
The ancient Egyptians didn't disappear and were replaced by Arabs and neither were the people of the Holy Land / Judea / Palestine or Lybia or Morocco.
Please keep Zionist mythology were it belongs - in Zionist schools, not here among grown-ups.
The reason this got headlines is not because the Church of the Nativity was declared a world heritage site (duh!) but because it's officially in the "state" called Palestine, which not only doesn't help the Palestinian cause but helps maintain the false facade of Palestinian sovereignty. As far as Israel is concerned, despite showing signs of discontent, it couldn't care less. On the contrary: let them celebrate their paper "state" - that will take some pressure off us.
Massada is not in the West Bank as far as I know.
what's there to be excited about? what exactly does this achieve? Bantustans with semi-official status? The only good thing the PA can do is dissolve itself and stop cooperating with the facade of semi-independent bantustans.
That's stating the obvious. We would obviously prefer a nuclear-free Middle East but since Israel/US will not disarm themselves, the only remaining option to achieve stability is to have Iran acquire a nuclear weapons.
To those who claim that Iran's nuclear capability would trigger a nuclear arms race, we'd have to remind them that Iran is not the one that started the nuclear arms race but rather Israel.
And the nonsensical claim that Saudi Arabia will seek nuclear weapons as a result can be easily refuted as Saudi Arabia needs no more than bb guns to protect itself as it is America's crown jewel in the Middle East (just recall what happened to someone who tried to mess with Kuwait, a much more minor holding of the US) and its $30 billion/year in arms purchases are nothing more than Baksheesh to its protector and guarantor.
Why does anyone take Dersh seriously anymore is beyond me, especially after Finkelstein proved him to be a plagiarist. Not only a plagiarist, but a plagiarist from a completely discredited propagandist misinformation agent named Joan Peters.
This wacko is also risking rupturing the delicate relationship between the Jewish and African American communities with his hysteric smear campaigns and bogus accusations.
Opposite? I guess Romney will make Israel pay the US $3 billion/year, have Israel pay an extra $1 billion for America's anti-missile defense, will take back the bunker busters, will support the Palestinians lock stock and barrel and stand up to AIPAC. I am voting Romney!
yes, Dances With Palestinians. That's the name of my blog and that may be the key to ending Israeli Apartheid - when more and more Jews will defect from the Jewish Supremacist camp and join Palestinians to abolish Israeli Apartheid since Israeli Apartheid cannot be changed from within as the Zionist left has proven for decades.
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
the ICC ruled the Apartheid Wall illegal. So? UNGA can recognize Palestine. So? Those who are hoping that laws or letter writing campaigns are going to change anything are deluding themselves. These efforts are worthwhile but only on the PR level - to expose Israel's Apartheid and violations. The only thing that can actually change things on the ground, and even that will take a long time, is BDS and a change of approach by PNA to drop claim for statehood and start a campaign for equal rights, i.e. one state solution.
Let Count Dracula earn the Medal of Vegetarianism.
Never ever assume good faith or good intentions from the Apartheid State of Israel. BDS should be dropped only after a complete solution has been implemented, not just declared.
History tells us that whenever someone assumed good faith on behalf of Israel, they were always proven wrong. It happened right after its founding when Israel accepted "in principle" allowing refugees back in order to be accepted into the UN, but then after being admitted, it reneged and turned it into a principle not to let refugees back.
It continued with the peace treaty with Egypt that mandated a solution to the Palestinian issue, only to see Israel invade Lebanon in order to prevent such a solution and of course continued with the Oslo Accords that Israel violated and deployed an exist strategy from after it realized its benefits.
Anyone who assumes good faith on behalf of Israel is either naive or worse, harbors a hidden agenda.
well duh... the colonialist never sees the natives as people. He realizes they exists only when they resort to (counter) violence.
These concerted hasbara campaigns of pinkwashing are only a sign of desperation from a state in moral bankruptcy fighting a losing battle.
And if only there was any truth to the gay-liberal title that it is trying to appropriate for itself.... the fact is there isn't. There are no gay marriages nor are gay marriages even being discussed in Israel - a state where a Jew cannot even marry a non-Jew.
So what is so liberal about Israel's gay attitude? That they don't execute them? Well, that happens to be true in 99% of the world.
Yes, Israel's intentions are more sinister and its brutality by far exceeds S. Africa, but Apartheid - a system of separateness of one group on the expense and exclusion of another group of people using a dual legal system - is still Apartheid.
Jews for Jesus are not considered Jews by the mainstream Jews. You cannot bridge that gap. Either you believe in Christ and then you are Christian or you don't. There's no in between as these J4J try to create.
You still didn't answer why the mother would convert to Judaism for the sake of the children. And why so many people these days tend to "find their Jewish roots" and you never hear about a Jew "finding his Christian roots". And here lies the notion of "specialness/choseness" of Judaism, which is also socially beneficial as Phil posits.
No, it's not that simple. The question is why do the gentiles who marry Jews more often convert to Judaism and you rarely hear about the other way around? Of course, if you are a Christian, converting to Judaism means denouncing Christ (yes, that's a dirty little "secret") as there are no grey areas in Judaism in that aspect, although I am sure they play it down.
So why do the gentiles choose to convert and not the other way around? Well, I think Phil has the answer.
I laughed so hard. Apparently someone visualized my earlier comment exactly...
"embattled democracy survive against brutal enemies"
The delusional detachment of American Jews from the reality of Palestine seems to indicate they vicariously live their superhero fantasies through a notion of Israel which they created in their minds... I think a psychologists would be better suited to explain this phenomenon.
Schopenhauer said ”All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
Keep up the good work.
So a man walks down the street when he witnesses a rape scene unfolding. As it turns out, the rapist is his brother. When bystanders attempt to intervene (and by God, they are not even attempting to stop the rape but just tap the rapist on the shoulder and tell him that what he's doing is not so nice), the man pleads with them to listen to both sides and to encourage the rapist and the rape victim to overcome their differences. He reminds them that the situation is complex and they may be hurting the rapist's feelings if they tell him that raping is not such a nice thing to do. Moreover, he tells them that trying to stop the rape would hurt his own feelings and their great friendship. That they are intervening just because the rapist is Jewish....etc.etc.etc.
"The US and Israel, the terrible Siamese twins conjoined by their Jewish communities"
Only a genius could come up with this masterful visual metaphor which encapsulates in one sentence the entire nature of this "greatest anomaly of our times". Guess who...
There is no doubt that this is the Israeli fantasy and unspoken solution and there is also no doubt that Congress will be fully supportive of Israel's "final solution to the Palestinian problem", regardless of what it is. But it could be achieved only under the fog of war, like they have done in the past, nor can it be achieved overnight or without massive bloodshed. Israel will have to foment a war with Jordan in order to perpetrate the Final Solution. Jordan is well aware of that although I don't think King Abdullah can do much about it except for developing nuclear weapons to thwart such an attack.
In the meantime the strangulation of Palestinian life continues....
Intolerance, under modern Zionist definition, is something which is done to Jews
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
Your quip ignores the fact that Israel has prevented them from returning to their homes for 64 years. You don’t suppose that if a thief refuses to return his booty and manages to keeps it for a certain period of time, it makes it legally his, do you? The same is true for refugees. If my father owned a house that you stole from him, I still have a claim to that house and you are still a thief.
Just look at the Holocaust lawsuits as an example.
Also, it's funny that people who claim to "return" after 2000 years and 100 generations are making this accusation against the Palestinians whom they have displaced only 64 years ago and prevented their return. There's no end to the Zionist logic bending arguments.
that's because we're dealing with a unique racist exclusionary Zionist entity which has prevented them from returning to their homes for 64 years. You don't suppose that if a thief refuses to return his booty and manages to keeps it for a certain period of time, it makes it legally his, do you?
There is one word for it: Bob Simon was made to "goldstone" by his media bosses.
Notice that the mini-pogrom took place a day after 60 Minutes aired Bob Simon's segment about Tel Aviv, in which he flatteringly portrayed it as a bastion of tolerance and pluralism and noted that "everybody here seems to get along fine"...
Notice that this incident comes a day after Bob Simon of 60 Minutes "Goldstoned" by airing a very flattering coverage of Tel Aviv as a city of tolerance and pluralism, noting that "everybody seems to get along in Tel Aviv"...
Simon "Goldstoned" and felt compelled to "balanace" obviously because of his earlier segment "Christians in the Holy Land" which was a PR disaster for Israel.
Perhaps Simon will air a segment about xenophobia in Tel Aviv and state supported racism in Israel? Nah, no chance...
My tribute to Rachel Corrie:
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
Just imagine the headlines around the world if it was Israeli civilians getting hurt from Palestinian shelling and the "retaliation" by Israel which would probably claim the lives of a hundred untermensch.
You won't see any mention of this incident in any mainstream media. These are the "unpeople" as Chomsky refers to the perception of value of life of the poor and powerless. Israel can get away apparently with shooting fish in the Gaza barrel. Even in Israel this was barely mentioned.
That's not accurate. You are accepting the basic premise that Israel's independence was a result of a struggle against British imperialism whereas the facts are that Israel could not have even been conceived or created without British imperialism and colonialism.
Israel's existence is due to British colonialism and imperialism, not because of a struggle against it, in the same way that Israel's existence and sustenance today is a result of American imperialism, not a struggle against it.
There are 80 million Arabs in Egypt alone. The total number of Arabs is probably closer to 300 million.
The spectacle of war criminal Olmert presenting himself as a dove to Netanyahu's hawk is quite amusing. Was he not the Prime Minister at one point who slaughtered Gazans and Lebanese instead of making peace? Also, about Olmert's "far reaching proposals":
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
I am just surprised by the knee jerk reaction here to oppose anything that comes from what appears to be yet another AIPAC groveling American politician. Of course on the surface it sounds ridiculous but I think Joe Walsh is onto something. He's not calling for expulsion like some people here hastily concluded.
It is perhaps the most pragmatic solution that I have heard so far as it both gives Palestinians citizen status and alleviates Jews' demographobia. If Palestinians are no longer under military rule, if they can move freely, buy property and work anywhere inside Israel and state policies are no longer designed to discriminate and dispossess them, voting rights should be a minor concern for the time being (after all, 20% - 40% of people choose not to participate in elections in most democracies anyway).
Anyway, he may be a loony but even a drunk can sometimes land a punch and we should not dismiss such ideas out of hand. Human rights and pragmatism can co-exist until we reach the promised land.
Leaving aside the mind-numbing rhetoric designed for AIPAC ears and dollars, what he suggests would be a great step forward as it eliminates the biggest obstacle to a resolution which is the current dead end impasse stemming from the attempt to split a swiss cheese into cheese and holes. Even a one state where Palestinians have no voting rights but are acknowledged as permanent residents (such as East Jeruslalem residents) who can move freely, work freely and buy property is better than the current Bantustan paradigm. The rest, i.e. full equality, could be achieved within a generation of civil rights movement.
I see Israeli Hasbara pushing the following line: "At least we are fair. We oppress Muslims and Christians equally!"
Palestinian Christians is kryptonite to Israel Hasbara and may indeed provide the path to ending Israel Apartheid. Don't hold your breath though, Israel is a morally bankrupt country but won't give up easily. Expect "Christian-washing" in the months to come, add that to the other "washings" it already engages in to mask its racist oppressive policies: whitewashing, pinkwashing, greenwashing, blackwashing, Druzewashing.
Palestinian Christians is kryptonite to Israeli Hasbara. The latest report from ynet reveals that in fact Bob Simon's segment was softened after Israeli intervention and lobbying by a number of operatives including the Israeli embassy. The story also reports that Oren updated Netanyahu about the CBS segment and Netanyahu was personally involved. Oren referred to the segment as a "strategic terrorist attack".
I just wonder how long it will take until even the most naive Christian Zionists look at each other and realize they had been taken for a ride and the entire narrative that Israel crafted of "enlightened Judeo-Christians against evil Muslims" collapses.
Expect heavy "Christian-washing" (we already have whitewashing, pinkwashing, greenwashing, blackwashing, Druzewashing) from Israel's Hasbara brigades in the months to come. Their belief in their moral superiority is steadfast!
Perhaps the Palestinian Christian community is key to dismantling Israeli Apartheid? One can only hope.
I do believe Simon that it's the first time. You cannot express opposition to airing something if you don't know its exact content. For example, let's say Oren got word that CBS was going to air a segment about the settlements. That could well be a negative for Israel but it's hard to imagine Oren calling CBS to object. After all, you can assume it will be the typical portrayal of the settlements, mild criticism of the Israeli government, a few bad words about Netanyahu, etc. - these are all mainstream and you can read that in the NYT op-ed columns every other day.
However, Christian Palestinians is kryptonite to Israeli Hasbara and Oren knows it. First of all, because most people are not aware that Palestinians are also Christian. Second, because it shatters the crafted narrative of "enlightened Israel versus evil Muslims" . In short, it does an enormous damage because it has the power to change the entire perception and narrative. And while Israel can live with Muslim hatred, it cannot survive without the Christian West support.
The Hasbara wheels are coming off... the achiles heel, as Jonathan Cook notes in his book "Disappearing Palestine" is the existence of a Palestinian Christian minority which is dispossessed and oppressed equally by Israel and which has taken full part in resistance movements against Israel. This of course blows to bits the narrative which Israel has been carefully crafting for Western audiences of "enlightened Israel, part of the West, in a war against evil Muslims".
Of course the fact that a large part of the West still views it through the distorted Israeli lens is an astonishing demonstration how the West's perception of the issue is shaped by Israel and is viewed mostly through Israeli eyes.
"but in fact it is Jews v. Muslims and Christians."
No, the more accurate description is between a colonial dispossessor and indigenous population. The enlightened colonial dispossessor in this case does not discriminate between Muslims and Christians... he oppresses and dispossesses them equally!
And just minor correction, Biram and Ikrit were ethnically cleansed in 1948 but their homes were dynamted in 1951 if I remember well, long after Israel's independence, while their denizens were languishing inside Israel proper, which makes it an even more glaring example of the Jewish Lebensraum's disregard for its non-Jewish inhabitants.
This is the first time I hear that claiming that Ashkenazi Jews originate from the Khazars is antisemitic. There are plenty of Jewish researchers who claim this and there is quite a bit of evidence that Ashkenazi Jews at least partially originate from the Khazars.
You better get your head out of the antisemitic conspiracy theories. The oppression of Palestinians, Muslims and Christians alike, is real. And if American media was unbiased and reported the rest of Israel's atrocities (the list is too long) without sugarcoating or ignoring like it typically does, we probably would have had peace by now as support for Israel's policies in the US would have been zero, like it should be.
I remember one of my childhood Bazooka bubble gum comic strip jokes: "My boss is terrible but he is a fair boss! He is equally terrible to everyone!"
In the same vein, Israel oppresses Christians as well as Muslims equally without any discrimination! I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the next Hasbara line...
Phil, I think it's counterproductive to dwell on this douchebag. What's easier for them than to say "here, we dismissed him, that's just an exception"?
Beside the fact that these incidents are almost everyday occurrences in the West Bank with Palestinians, the important point is what the activists were protesting in the first place, which was drowned in all this noise, including yours: the activists were blocked from riding on the Jew-only, sorry, "Israeli only" road in the Apartheid State of Israel.
This incident should have drawn the world's attention to Israel's Apartheid and restrictions imposed in the West Bank and that Palestinians are confined to ever shrinking ghettos and instead people are obsessing with that one douchebag (although of course we should thank for helping expose the ugly face on Israel's Apartheid).
Hezbollah for Israel is a lot more than just a small militia that kicked it out of Lebanon. It's an Arab fighting force that demolished the legend of Israeli invincibility with basic weapons and a couple of thousand peasants, many of whom orphans from Israel's barbaric 18 year occupation of Lebanon.
Israel's entire strategy in the Middle East has always been the Iron Wall: beat the native "savages" hard and mercilessly so as to shatter their hope of ever being able to beat Israel on the battlefield. This is the hole that Hezbollah poked in the Israeli myth of invincibility. And just like you would expect from a bully, the bully doesn't take defeat as a gentleman. He demonizes the enemy, designates him as a "terrorist organization" and goes on a murderous rampage of killing civilians, destroying infrastructure and wiping out entire residential neighborhoods, as Israel did in Lebanon in 2006. Hezbollah of course does not represent a threat to Israel but as long as it exists, there is a dent in the Iron Wall and that's why Israel is eager for another round in which it hopes to obliterate it and thus restore the Iron Wall.
If you open Israeli newspaper, you'd see every other day a made-up story by Israeli's military apparatus about Hezbollah, whether it is about terrorist cells in Thailand, Sinai, South America, drug smuggling, just name it - all from a 2000 men local South Lebanese militia that was created for the purpose of fighting Israel's occupation and without any shred of evidence of a single terrorist attack. In fact, while Israel killed about 20,000 Lebanese civilians and wreaked enormous destruction, Hezbollah fought fair and square exclusively against the Israeli military. You can see that Nasrallah is a man of integrity and character. It was almost entertaining that during Israel's 2006 Lebanon invasion the Israeli public believed more Nasrallah's statements than their own military....
Although it is always interesting to learn how Israel implements its criminal colonization and ethnic cleansing policies under a legal facade, the endless analysis of the Israeli "legal" aspects, the Israeli Supreme Court, "state lands", etc. seems to me like two fleas fighting each other for territory on the back of a dog. And the dog is of course the fact that none of the settlements are legal, including East Jerusalem and the Jordan Valley, and they are all blatant violations of international law and the Geneva Convention so no such thing can ever be "legal".
I don't know who came up with the "flytilla" idea but it seems to be a very expensive way to protest and probably ineffective too. I can think of a dozen ways to protest more effectively without wasting money on a round-way tickets and 12 hours of sitting in trans-continental flights.
I tried to touch on the subject of the media distortion / collective cataract that inflicts the Israel/Palestine coverage in my essay The Bear and the Bees from September of last year.
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
Israel's neighbors (and indeed the whole world) must be very worried about Israel's nuclear capacity. You have an extremely aggressive state which is inflicted with collective psychosis who view themselves as victims even as they commit continuous atrocities, that lives in a bunker mentality and views an impending Holocaust on every turn, that refers to each of its enemies as Hitler, that has a declared policy of acting like a mad dog, that has achieved an Orwellian indoctrination of its citizens, something to the level that Stalin could have only dreamed of. And these paranoid mad dogs have their fingers on an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction.
This abnormal behavior and psyche create more and more enemies and results in complete and utter rejection of the Zionist enterprise by the entire people of the Middle East, which in turn helps feed their vicious paranoia cycle.
That by itself highlights the urgency in international involvement in imposing peace, something which its so-called friend, the United States, is hell bent on preventing.
I can understand Grass breaking the silence. After all, the West has reached new heights in the level of hypocrisy and double standards towards its old colonial slaves, where the country leading the charge against Iran's supposed (no proof necessary) military nuclear program is the country that itself is not signed on the NPT and has hundreds of unreported and unsupervised nukes.
The taking of the double standard to such new extremes is so blatant and has made it such a farce that the US is not even trying to put a facade of legality on it. It's simply the same old colonial rule: one law for us the "enlightened", another law for the native "savages".
And of course, we should always remember that with its endless spoiling and showering of gifts on its "special child", with turning of a blind eye to ethnic cleansing and Apartheid, by supporting its wars of aggression and dispossession, by providing endless assistance and protection, the West has created a little monster in the Middle East.
It would be much better if you just change read comments to a different background color instead of hiding them.
Automatically hiding previously viewed comments is a pretty bad idea I would say. I do not like this change.
I know in your upside-down world view, terrorism leads to occupation/Apartheid, not the other way around like most people see this. Mandela was also convicted for "sabotage" (plotting to destroy the South African state by "sabotage") and was on the US terror list until not too long ago, so you just completed the analogy instead of refuting it.
So Barghoutti is a terrorist convicted by an Israeli military kangaroo court? The one with 99.75% conviction rate? The one where people can be thrown indefinitely in jail with no charges at all? Yeah sure...
Oppressor does what oppressors do - it's a predictable instinctive reaction - they simply can't help it. It's almost like Israel is doing its best to create the Palestinian Nelson Mandela even if there is currently none.
As usual, it seems progress always starts in SF, which is a leading indicator of where things are heading. If that's the case, this is very good news although I have no illusion that it's a big uphill battle.
All we are saying is quite simple, I hope you can understand: remove the cause of violence, then we wouldn't have to discuss what the dispossessed is "allowed" to do and what not. Instead you are an apologist for oppression and dispossession and want to engage in debate in what the oppressed are "allowed" to do. It's like someone breaking into his neighbor's house and then pleading with the homeowner to abide by the law!
"that Begin murdered anyone is questionable (I say “murdered” as in “unlawful killing with malicious intent”) cos he was never convicted in a court of law. Neither have any other people who have their names on Israeli streets. That Shamir was a terrorist is also questionable, but that is not the point. "
Hitler was never convicted in the court of law and never murdered anyone. Would you grant him the same benefit of the doubt? Does any book that you have read recently refer to Hitler as "the alleged genocider of Jews"?
Like most Israelis, you are falling for the logical fallacy of putting occupier and occupied, dispossessor and dispossessed, sovereign state and a stateless population, on the same level as two equal sides. Your prism is distorted, as it is for most Israelis, which causes you to make this preposterous comparison.
It's called the Eved Ki Yimloch (the slave shall rule) syndrom and an inevitable product of the "Jewish State" and the indoctrination of ethnic nazionalism and supremacy.
These people, mostly Arab Jews ("mizrahim"), would have been nice, pleasant and humble people living their daily lives had they stayed in Morocco, Iraq, Tunisia, etc. However, give them a flag, tell them that they are superior to
JewsArabs, that all their problems are because ofJewsArabs, and they become enthusiastic JudeoNazis, not much different from the peasants of Germany and Ukraine back in the day.The problem with the "partial boycott" approach is that its effectiveness is close to zero and its failure is predictable: it will enable Israelis to completely wash their hands off the occupation/Apartheid while continuing to serve in the military and enforcing the occupation and continuing to vote for parties that entrench and perpetuate this monstrosity.
Israel should be viewed for what it is: a one state from the sea to the river, de facto, and therefore all attempts to limit the boycott to parts of the country are bound to fail since they do not include the real perpetrators of Apartheid, which is the Israeli public and all its elected governments since 1967.
Oren's speech, beside spreading the usual lies and hypocrisy, represents something a lot more sinister, which is the Zionist inherent tendency to drive a wedge between Christians and Muslims throughout the Middle East, much like they have done between Arab Jews and Arab non-Jews. The attempt to portray the "good Christians" vs. the "bad Muslims" is part and parcel of the invented "clash of civilizations", another product of Zionist ideology which aims to shape the Middle East, perhaps the entire world, in accordance with Zionist objectives that will benefit the state of Israel.
For as long as the Jewish State exists it will be in a state of war with its neighbors and will attempt to divide the Middle East, to create sectarian wars, to pit Christians against Muslims and Shias against Sunnis and of course, to maintain its raison d'etre: to separate Jews from gentiles.
I don't see why they would do that. It's not like he's part of the Palestine solidarity movement or in any official position. Are they hoping to get a Kosher stamp by denouncing him?
I personally see it as his own personal ravings, I don't think it has much of an effect in any way. Most of his assertions could be fairly easily debunked and do not hold up to scrutiny. His obsession with Jewish identity politics and Jewishness is perhaps his personal vendetta but has nothing to do with Palestine. Let the self-styled philosopher rave on - at least he brings some attention to the Palestinian issue.
We don't need to study Boer history or Boer identity politics to abolish Apartheid and so we don't need studies of Jewish identity politics to abolish Israeli Apartheid.
Not only that but you forgot the main point: Israel deliberately obfuscates in order to confuse between non-citizen Palestinians (about 80%) to which the Apartheid analogy rightfully applies and citizen Palestinians (about 20%), who are systematically discriminated against but are far better off than the non-citizens.
Brave girl. Are there any numbers out there? I would speculate that refusing to serve in Israel is quite rare, despite a fairly lenient system. That's the advantage of indoctrination since birth and a system of complete misinformation and brainwash that disguises crimes against humanity and oppression as "self defense".
And unfortunately, while deriding people like her, the Israelis and the Hasbara brigades will ignore her message as "naive" or "misinformed" and instead use it to compliment themselves: "you see, we even have bleeding heart liberals in Israel, while in other countries..." - it's a flawless self-reaffirming system.
Of course, I served myself, not knowing any better at the tender age of 18.
Mearsheimer apparently still believes or perhaps is desperate to believe the myth of the righteous Jew. Once again, if you wait for Israel to officially declare Apartheid, you're going to have to wait a very long time - it's not going to happen. Apartheid is already there and in fact has been there since Israel's founding in one form or another, without much protest, let alone boycott, by "righteous Jews".
Here is the clearest explanation of Apartheid that blows everything else out of the water:
link to youtube.com
In short, for as long as people accept that ideology of Jewish exclusivity on the expense of the indigenous population, they are all complicit in the crime of Apartheid.
As usual, this quixotic attempt to disprove Apartheid only reaffirms it as Israel is predictably moving towards the S. African Bantustan model, although admittedly S. Africans Bantustans would be an island paradise resort compared to Israel's Bantustans.
BTW, I don't know if this was posted already on Mondoweiss but this is some powerful stuff here:
link to youtube.com
Not remarkable at all. The idea that Israeli leadership will call the US in order to achieve peace is ridiculous. It's almost like expecting white nationalists in S. Africa to ask for outside help to abolish Apartheid when they receive full support for it from their benefactors.
Why would Israel do that? There is no cost associated with Israel's Apartheid and policies of ethnic cleansing and the conflict serves to keep the Jewish communities from fighting each other as they probably would if there was peace, and of course, to continue receiving financial support and to keep the military establishment in control.
When I see good people like Gurvitz it makes me sad, knowing that they are trapped inside an ideological system, the end product of Zionism, that simply cannot change from within. I will have to quote here a much more brilliant writer than myself:
Yes, the soldiers and the officers who refused to participate in the oppression are very good guys and they did a good deed. But I am worried it will be used to promote good feeling of Israel’s supporters, to legitimize the very structure of apartheid. Their brave words are already used to support the ‘unilateral separation’, a code word for fencing the Palestinians into one big well guarded zone. One can’t change the paradigm of the Jewish state, the paradigm of oppression and apartheid, from within. A character of Raspe’s book, Baron Munchausen (probably familiar by Terry Gilliam’s movie) extracted himself and his horse out of deep bog by pulling up his plait (see the picture below). If you believe this “tall story”, you may believe that the good guys can change Israeli Jewish society without joining forces with Palestinians.
I read those emails and they sound more like two average internet commenters speculating rather than people with concrete information.
This gets at the reason that Europeans are enraged over the demolition of their solar project in Area C
Yes, the Germans are so enraged I heard they sent a nuclear capable submarine to the region....... as a gift to Israel!
I don't think it will be this simple to implement a Final Solution to a civilian population demanding civil rights. It will also be a hard sell to world media that it is a "civil war" when the victims are not citizens and do not possess arms. In addition, the Final Solution needs a fog of a regional war as local clashes will not suffice.
It is in fact the Paltustan construct that is more likely to harbinger the Final Solution as this "solution" will not be stable in the long run because alas... people are not likely to accept living in closed holding pens indefinitely. It will result in uprisings, constant conflict and friction and also by segregating Palestinians into confined areas, it will make it easier for the Israeli army to carry out its final ethnic cleansing.
That's a great article, I have nothing to add as it reflects my positions precisely - I couldn't have written it any better. However, the strategy should be on two fronts: one to hasten a paradigm shift to abandon the two-state/Paltustan solution, and the other in confronting the self-appointed Jewish leadership in America and their power apparatus, which is ultimately what enables this oppression and ethnic cleansing to continue unabated.
Someone should forward this to Finkelstein....
That depends on how you define "destroying Israel". If by that you mean destroying the exclusionary Apartheid State, then yes, I'd say most of us are very much for it.
And if by destroying you mean abolishing, then you're right on!
Exactly. The equality approach (one state) is the pragmatic solution while the "two states" is neither two states nor a solution - it is just a smokescreen that legitimizes the Apartheid "while (the endless) negotiations continue..."
Also, every one state supporter has been at one point a two-state solution supporter. It took two decades of "negotiations" for quite a lot of people to realize that there is never going to be a viable Palestinian state and it is what leads pragmatic people to change their approach and offer a practical road map to forced democracy through sanctions.
Also, regarding "what the public would accept": which public is Finkelstein talking about? Israeli Jews? Well perhaps we should have asked the Boers what they think about equal rights for blacks before we forged ahead with sanctions...
Finkelstein reminds me now of the Israeli left: they are perfectly willing to talk about the 1967 borders, the law and the two state solution for another 50 years while Palestinians are languishing in ever shrinking bantustans behind barbed wire and walls. They speak as if this situation is new and not something that has been going on for 45 years while Israel has been doing everything possible to prevent a two state solution.
He ignores the fact that the international consensus and the international verdict is also 45 years old and that hasn't changed anything on the ground.
It just seems that some people get attached to a certain view and have built a career around it (such as Uri Avnery) that they can't seem to adjust their views to the reality of the situation, which makes them detached and obsolete.
Unfortunately, these good and well meaning people are doing more harm than benefit the Palestinians because they too help them push in a direction which at best will lead them to live in Bantustans and are providing the left leg to legitimizing Israel's Apartheid ("while the negotiations continue...").
And Bantustans are the best case scenario! More likely is that while the Palestinian plight remains in limbo for the foreseeable future, they risk a Final Solution - the completion of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine under the fog of war, which is very much written into the Zionist blueprint.
Every supporter of discrimination, separation, racism and subjugation believes that his case is unique and that the circumstances justify it, yet despite that it's always the same reasons given: "because they are different", "because we are different", "because it is essential for our survival", "because of our security".
"South Africa was a single nation. Israel and Palestine have always been considered two distinct nations"
You are just exhibiting ignorance. A "nation" is an arbitrary definition and has no real-life organs or implication except for self-identification. A state on the other hand is very real - it has institutions, military, government, etc.
Your claim of "two nations" was also claimed by White Nationalists in S. Africa in order to argue for separate states (i.e. Bantustans ruled by White Nation S. Africa), so the S. Africa analogy is only confirmed by your argument.
While I do not rule out the idea of two states, the facts on the ground created one state long time ago (thanks to Israel) and now the only solution is equality. I hope you have nothing against equality.
And no, I don't think that 20 more years of negotiations over the "two states" is an option. We have been to that movie already, we don't need a re-run.
Of course, people are aware of that. It is a well known and well discussed phenomenon of American Jews being generally more hawkish than Israelis. The reason for that is simple: they get no flak, i.e. they do not suffer any consequences of the wars that they preach for.
Once again, I beg to disagree. If you can create a narrative of self-defense and propagate it through world media, then the West not only will not condemn but cheer on, as it happened in the 1967 war when the West celebrated an expansionist war of aggression and ethnic cleansing which was packaged and sold as a pre-emptive attack by "poor little David fighting for survival".
Of course, these days it is much harder for Israel to create a narrative of self-defense as its world image as a little guy fighting "evil Arabs" has been tarnished, but I don't think that is the reason Israel won't launch a nuclear strike.
The main reason is that such an attack will inevitably lead to a nuclear weapon from Pakistan or N. Korea to be smuggled to the Middle East and dropped on Tel Aviv, which will be the end of the short lived Jewish State.
I disagree. You are underestimating the West's ability to commit atrocities and impose a double standard with a straight face.
First of all, 100 Senators and 430 House reps will vote to congratulate Israel and replenish its Uranium supplies. The Europeans will no doubt condemn this action and then send Israel another nuclear capable submarine while adding Israel to the EU. Then the media in the West will go on to describe it as a heroic deed which saved Israel from another Holocaust and saved the lives of thousands of US troops since it was a defensive attack and things would have been a lot worse if the US had to invade Iran.
"self-delegitimization" is a stretch because it assumes that Israel was once legitimate. It wasn't. Yes, it may be beyond the boundary of discourse for most people but I elaborated on the subject of Israel's legitimacy in my latest blog post:
link to dancingwithpalestinians.wordpress.com
The bottom line is that Israel has yet to make itself legitimate by making itself a state of its citizens and allowing the refugees universal right of return, which can be done, but seems unlikely in the foreseeable future.
It's hard to underestimate the value of the Biblical brand name in the marketing of Israel to Christian consumers.
Would Israel have this support from those Christian Evangelists had Ben Gurion decided to name the Jewish State Birobijan or Jewistan in 1948? Obviously not. But by hijacking a Biblical brand name, the Zionists, despite being mostly atheists at that time, were able to sell their colonial enterprise in Palestine as a continuation of the Biblical Israel and to pull on religious heartstrings across the Christian world.
It is of course a cult based on ignorance. I doubt that many of them realize that by supporting the "Jewish State", they are helping dispossess other Christians, since Palestinians are also Christian.
It sounds more like wishful thinking than an actual plan. I think most pragmatic people already realize that Israel will not withdraw to the 1967 borders and that the two state solution is dead.
There is only one pragmatic solution that requires no uprooting of people, no negotiations, no grids, bypasses, security fences, etc. and that is the one state solution.
As long as Palestinians like you set your sights on that mirage Palestinian Bantustan (and fragmented Bantustans are your best case scenario outcome), you will never make progress.
Nobody should expect much of anything from Israel's Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has been a rubber stamp for every atrocity and violation of human rights Israel has been committing since its founding, such as house demolitions, land confiscations, extra-judicial executions, etc. The magic word as you can expect is "security" - just like in Apartheid S. Africa. When this magic word is invoked, the Supreme Court gives any action an appearance of legality, which the Israelis use in their self-deception on a "want-to-believe" public.
And of course by "national" he means Jewish, for even Supreme Court judges in Israel view themselves representing the construct known as a "nation state" rather than all Israelis.
Nation states are dangerous ideas to begin with, something belonging in 19th century Europe, but it becomes even more objectionable when the "nation" is comprised of immigrants claiming exclusive rights to the land based on a 2000 year old claim, and the natives are the targets of discriminatory laws.
Israel is the only country in the world where you'll see University Professors reciting Zionist mythology - just to show you that mythology is stronger than any history books, logic or facts.
It's a world apart and a testament to the power of indoctrination.
I don't see it as a "bi-national state" - a term that is abused and serves to perpetuate the conflict - you could also claim that in S. Africa there were "two nations". By this definition, Israel is already a "bi-national state", even without the territories. The term "bi-national" implies that there are two distinct nations but that is just a myth perpetuated by the Zionist establishment. Israel is made up of very diverse communities, some of which, like Arab Jews, have more in common with Palestinians than with Ashkenazi Jews. In short, they will have to de-emphasize the Jewish/Palestinian invented "nations" and create a new inclusive Israeli identity - it can be done!
It is funny that the demographics demon is always brought up as an argument for keeping the current Apartheid structure. I don't remember a winning argument back in the days of S. African Apartheid that "if blacks are allowed to vote, whites will lose control of the country". Yet Jews are different: "Jews need a country of their own". My answer to that is: then you should find an uninhabited island or buy a chunk of uninhabited land from Canada, Russia, US or Argentina. Palestine on the other hand was and is populated by non-Jews who have been living there for countless generations.
Besides, you have nobody to blame but yourselves for you supported your government's silly project of colonizing the territories since 1967, thus creating an irreversible one state. You could have gotten away with the original crime of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and with a majority which you achieved by expelling the natives. But you wanted all of Palestine. Now, just like whites in S. Africa, you have to choose between Apartheid or democracy.
The good news: the disappearance of the Jewish Ethnocracy is nothing to lament about. Also, there will still be a Jewish majority if the one-state is declared sans Gaza, which can be an independent state. I think there is enough support for such move.
I also think many Israelis are starting to understand that the Jewish State is at the source of their problems and eternal conflicts. Much like S. Africa, once the exclusionary feature is removed and the supremacist demon exorcised, Israel will be able to flourish and live peacefully with its neighbors. The Nationalist Jews who have more attachment to the flag than to the land will immigrate. Those who remain will be the real Jewish people who love the land and view it their home. Jews are not a different species - they can live as equals (whether a majority or not) with non-Jews in Palestine just like they do elsewhere in the world.