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  • Mearsheimer: 7 reasons Netanyahu & Barak might like war with Iran
    • Aren’t Kurds entitled to their own state, they are an ancient nation indigenous to the region that got f* *ed by the colonial powers which drew the maps in the aftermath of WWI"..Oleg

      Maybe they are....but that has nothing to do with Jews being entitled to a state in Palestine....the Kurds where there when the colonial powers botched the map .......the Israelis didn't exist then.

    • "suggested that the President hold a meeting and joint press conference with Jewish political and defense leaders who oppose an attack, explaining why this is not a good idea "...David

      I differ somewhat. The US President should hold a press conference for the American public --and lay it all on the table --but without Jewish leaders.
      Jewish opinion, even anti war, should not be' showcased' to the general public.
      It reinforces the idea to Jews that their opinion when it comes to US actions re Israel trumps all non Jewish citizens opinion on US FP and reinforces to the Non Jewish population that Jews control the issue.
      This --- the notion that any special group or special sentiment or connection, good or bad, should have more weight on critical US national policies than majority consideration--is exactly what we have to get away from.
      It is exactly what has led to several idiotic and self damaging US policies-- of which minority interest in Israel and the less dangerous, but still similar, minorities interest in Cuba are two excellent examples.
      If this is how US policy is to be made, on anything, war, trade, economics, where does it end...if Asians or Russian exiles became the most monied and influential political group would we then let them dictate our national policy toward China or Russia..up to and including a war for or against them?

    • "Rusty Pipes says:
      August 14, 2012 at 11:33 am

      It’s great to see you post here, Professor Mearsheimer!

      I second that. Thanks!
      Like to see more here from Measheimer and other objective FP experts.

    • I'm with Mearsheimer's view. Walt's take below is similar to Mearsheimer's.
      From what I've read most FP realist are saying "probably not" but "don't rule it out".
      IMO it comes down to 'secure' are they in their typical Israeli hubris.
      Do they 'feel' secure enough about their control of the US outlined by Mearsheimer to be certain a strategy of striking Iran without US approval would be successful?
      I think only being not totally secure about that control would prevent them from attempting it as a way to bring in the US.
      So if they don't it might tell us something we don't know and haven 't seen about the actual level of support for Israel in the Obama adm and other sectors of the government.

      ''Although I believe war with Iran would be folly, one cannot rule it out. All countries commit blunders, and neither the United States nor Israel is immune to this sort of miscalculation (see under: Iraq, Lebanon, etc.). But I am remain skeptical that Israel will attack, for the simple reason that it does not have the military capability to inflict strategically significant damage on Iran's nuclear facilities
      Like I said, I can't be completely sure that reason will prevail and that a war won't happen, although there do seem to be a lot of sensible voices inside the Israeli security establishment who are counseling against it.
      What worries me most is that the people who have been sounding all these alarmist warnings will start to worry that their credibility is evaporating, and they will feel compelled to go to war because they've talked about it for so long. That's just about the dumbest reason I can think of, but sometimes even pretty smart people do dumb things. ''

  • Why Israel is 'singled out'
    • "“We all intuitively understand the rationale for focusing on those offenses over which we have more control, even if they are not the most egregious. If that weren’t the case, how could an American justify focusing her attention on the misdeeds of the government of the United States?”

      People tend to focus on what they can do something about..or at least 'think' they can do something about.

      Add to what adds to the world singling out Israel.
      1) The holocaust victim Hypocriscy in what they've done to the Palestines.
      2) The inane propaganda and obvious lying that make the hypocriscy even more infurating.
      3) Israel putting itself 'above' all laws other nations would be expected and or required to go by.
      4) Basically making the world watch them beat the shit out of people and steal everything they have, while at the same time giving us all the finger, demanding money so they can keep doing it and telling us all at every opportunity to go F*** ourselves if we don't like it.

      Added to for Americans in particular:
      1) How Israel has involved us.
      2)How the US could stop it but won't.
      3) Because zionist and foreigners took over our politicians and policy.
      $) How they deceived and propagandized the US public for just this purpose so no active popular outcry would arise to intefer with their' use' of America.
      4) What it cost us.
      5) The impact of I/P on the US reputation around the world.

      It all adds up. They are asking for it...been asking for it for a long long time.

  • Iran hysteria watch
    • 'An Israeli source said the Americans believe it is a kind of "ingratitude" and "pigs" in light of unwavering U.S. support for Israel's security.''

      Who knows if he really said that or not but Israel is pig...oink,oink.
      I asked earlier if anyone knew of any victim group that the world, especially the US, had compensated or helped more than Jews(Israel). If there is one I never heard of them. And yet all we ever hear from the zios is 'no one ever did anything for the Jews, Jews have only themselves to depend on, the world is hostile to Jews, no one cares about the Jews, you're all anti semites...on and on and on...while demanding America commence a war for them...gawd.
      Never a word of gratitude, never a thank you or even acknowledgement of anyone helping them....just spit in our faces all the time and tell us we 'owe them more, more, more.

  • Settler says Israelis will man phone banks aimed at Florida and Ohio Jews 'to push Israel button' in November
    • "If we the Jews can't figure out how to vote in terms of our best interest in terms of Jewish issues,.......... then no one else is going to help us... ''

      Is there ANY group of victims of anything ever that have received anything like the compensation and help from the world that the Jews have?
      If so I've never heard of them.

      And yet every single Zio always begins with......'.no one has helped the Jews...'.the Jews can only depend on themselves....'the world is hostile to Jews...

    • The latest poll in Israel according to the 927 site shows 44% in favor attacking Iran and 33% against it unless the US does it.

      It's some of the former military and intelligence officers in Israel that make up the brunt of the anti attacking Iran outcry....not the general public.

  • In a league of our own: The ‘Israeli’ assault on the baseball world
    • Hmmm...thinking of another true story about some friends, I may know the perfect opponents for the endless shenanigans of the Zionist.
      One of my wife's best friends was married to guy who was very charming and well liked by the social crowd. He lived a good life on her inherited money and family businesses. But he was a real ladies man and everyone knew it including his wife and even the children.
      I guess after 20 years or so she finally got fed up with his cheating and acting like he was a single playboy and being the embarrassed wife all the time.
      So late one night he came home from a country club card game and she shot him three times with a 35 coming up the staircase and said she thought he was a burglar. Dead as doornail. It was a horrible accident even the children agreed. Not even questioned by police. All the ladies felt sorry for Kitty and didn't want her to get depressed or dwell on it so they took Kitty off on a big shopping trip to Fanny's in Virginia. All was well.
      Pissed off women would scare even a zio.

      P.S. don't make anything sexist out of this.

    • "I can see a majority of Americans coming to believe that U.S. Jews and Israelis are one and the same">>>>>>>

      No, not as Israelis but I can see Americans possibly adopting the Jews as a nation within a nation canard at some point depending on how far the Zios and Jewish recognition seekers take all this ......regarding them as citizens of the Jewish Nation, not the American one.
      Maybe they could they be regarded as something like the American Navajo Nation, except the Zios are already too meddling in America's national business to leave it at baseball.

      The Zios want the Jews to regard themselves as a separate nation regardless of whatever nation they happen to live in ..and then they want Americans or whoever to accept the Jews being a different nation of their own in America or wherever and act uppermost with Jewish national interest in other countries.

      Evidently the Zios didn't get the memo about not promoting or imitating the old canards. That's one of the most bizarre things about them.

      I think I came across a Zio once and didn't realize it. He was a member of our hunting camp and use to take his girl friend to his cabin for hank panky. His wife was suspicious and came to the camp one time and caught them, looking thru the window and seeing what was going on. She burst in the cabin to confront them and the girl friend ran out the back and he tried to convince his wife she was seeing things. Really...told her was 'seeing things', there was no woman there.

      The happy ending for her at least, was evidently she wasn't on any mind altering drugs like ziocaine so she pretended to believe him and agreed to back home and rest and calm down. But by the time he went home a day later she had cleaned out all the joint money accounts and changed the locks on the house. They did get a divorce. True story.

  • Paul Ryan said to be meeting with Adelson
    • Opps,... you caught me.

    • There are 34.5 million of Irish ancestry in the US. About the same number of Scottish.
      If we ever have a war in the US I'm joining the tribes with best whisky.

    • @yonah, the loss of her father’s wealth at the hands of the Bolsheviks (twice) formed her POV. She grew up with nannys and nurses and lost all that."

      Same as what propelled the Cuban exile community. I got a look at it thru a Cuban schoolmate who was eaten up over his family losing their privilage status lifestyle in Cuba and couldn't or didn't want to be in a society that wasn't servile toward them...and from being around it a bit visit in Miami in the 60 and 70's.
      The Cuban exile lobby was never about democratic 'freedom' for the Cuban people, just the opposite, it was about getting the US to overthrow Castro so "they" could get back their privileged position and lifestyle.
      I read their CANF plan once for organizing Cuba 'after' Castro was outed....everything was to be divided up among the returning exiles...and they would form the government without elections and the peasants would be returned to being peasants...the same 1% feudal system it was.
      Yea they actually wanted the US to attack Cuba just so they could be in
      the 1% again.
      Reminds me of the Zionistas who won't come out and say what they really want is to be the 1% and have the world be servile toward them..but that is what they want....what they mean by 'security'.

    • Ha! wasn't his face was difficult, it was their media agenda was war.

  • Egyptian President Mursi orders Tantawi to stand down
    • Good thinking ritzl.......we need a leader to galvanize our discontent--in the right direction...before one comes along to turn our discontent into disaster and destruction.

    • Would the US allow a military coup in Egypt?
      I think maybe not this time.

    • I think Mursi was smart to move quickly. Take control immediately while his base is pumped...keep the momentum going forward .

    • Stay on it annie.....there's probably gonna be a lot twists and turns to come.

    • Juan Cole's thoughts on this below. Cole always said the Egyptian Revolution wasn't dead or failed. That there were more changes to come. But even he is surprised Musrsi moved so quickly.

      In Switch, Egypt’s Civilian President Makes Coup against Generals
      Posted on 08/12/2012 by Juan
      This is BIG.

      People might want to read up on the domestic economic privilages the Egyptian military enjoyed. With not enough military errands to occupy a force of 450,000, soliders were used as employees on private projects, real estate projects and even transport business for consumer goods. Sometimes higher ups in the military got some pay or a slice of ownership for providing this army workforce for projects.
      And naturally if the military, already being paid thru the military as a solider was used this way, it threw some Egyptians civilians out of possible jobs.
      Maybe that will change too.
      workers on private projects

    • @ Cloak&Dagger

      'the first 100 days'......absolutely agree. Obama blew it.

      Will he blow it again if reelected?

  • Savage Geller bus ad hits San Francisco Muni
    • @ Dan

      excellent point.

    • ''The best kind of “counter ads” would surely be to turn their own words against them"

      There are hundreds of all kinds of racist statements that would shock the public and all kinds of Israeli supporters derogatory statements about America that would set people aflame.
      The country should be flooded with posters with everything from those to quotes from and pictures of our politicans swearing to spend every drop of US blood and treasure for Israel, to posters comparing laying off the US Post Office to giving Israel 3 billion dollars.
      There are hundreds upon hundreds! of this stuff the public has never seen or heard.

    • I must be going thru some kinda brain rewiring or transition cause every time I look at this post headline it flips words to ......'' Savage Geller hit by bus''.

    • Oh hell, C&D....we have litteral above the law criminals running our government and country ....and we should worry about pissant laws about defacing ads?....LOL

      Although I agree that their ads should stay up.....they will piss off decent people.

    • I don't know. Judges can pretty much make any ruling they want.
      Then it can be legally challenged or not.
      If an Ad like this was put up:

      In Any War Between Good and Evil.

      Fight Against Evil.

      Fight for Good.

      Defeat the Evil of the Israeli Apartheid in Palestine.

      Support the Human Right to Dignity and Freedom for Palestines.

      Would the judge or some other judge make a similar ruling that it was political speech?
      Or would it be called hate speech?

  • 'Obama will be forced' to support Israeli strike -- because of his domestic 'political needs'
    • "And here I am 45 year later, forced to hear the word used against Zionists, "...yonah

      If our purpose was to cut your tender Jewish sensitives to the quick instead of just describing the techinque we'd be using some nasty slang like hasa ..for pigs that don't fly describe it.
      Pipul isn't anywhere near that.
      Quit being a whinybaby.

    • yonah fredman says:
      August 12, 2012 at 9:12 pm

      "MRW did not use the term because it fit so well. He used the term because he wished to bait the Jews.''>>>>>

      Nope, don't think so. I use the word too, which is the word for how Jewish scholars (according to Jews themselves writing about it at Huffpo) don't debate "their way to a truth"---what they do is "create a Truth and announce it..." and then they talk about all the facets of 'their truth'.....but the don't try to actually question it...their truth is not debatable...sort of like the Pope's infallibility.
      We just use pilpul here to describe the way the zios do the same thing in Israel debates. The zios 'declare' a truth....and no matter how thoroughly their truth about Israel is disproven, debunked or demolished...... the zios will never acknowledge the evidence that their truth isn't really true, they just answer with and keep restating" their truth" over and over again, like they are deaf or blind and have not seen or heard anything anyone said.

      Posters on here have put tons and tons of 'facts', real evidence, real law, real history, out for the zios.....but their pilpul factor doesn't allow it thru to them.

      It's very irritating. That why no one has any patience with the hasbara.

    • How many times has the US said it can't tell Israel what to do?
      Far be from us to stand in their way.
      I suggest these for mood music on the Isr WH hot line phone.

      'A brave man once requested me
      To answer questions that are key
      Is it to be or not to be
      And I replied 'Oh, why ask me?'

      That suicide is painless
      It brings on many changes
      And you can take or leave it if you please''

      'Que Sera, Sera, whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see, Que sera sera.'

    • All I can say over and over again is never before in the history of the world has there been a situation where a country's leaders, much less the superpower leader of the free world, has bought into the idea that their/his election depends, in whatever part, on declaring fidelity to foreign country and their support from foreign loyalist to a foreign country.

      Never happened before, nothing comparable to it ever, and wherever it leads or however it ends it's going to be a giant FUBAR for the US ---and for the world because of the US reach in the world.

      Iran is just one symptom of this and it sends my mind reeling that most Americans aren't fully aware of what this abdication of America(ns) interest to a foreign power really, really, really MEANS.....the full depth of the corruption behind it.

      The US is totally off the tracks, whatever is was or 'supposed' to be is gone.
      I don't know how much longer it can teeter on ruled by special interest and elite desires.
      There's got to be some point where the law of diminishing returns collapses it.

  • Paul Ryan describes Israel as issue of 'Homeland Security'
    • All I am hearing on the cable news channels is Israel, Israel, Israel...Iran and Israel, Israel and the candidates in the broken record.
      They did take a break to cover yet another mad man with a machine gun shooting people somewhere near some college.

    • "Looks as if he is just another opportunistic whorish politician willing to say or do anything to be ,”VPOTUS”.

      LOL.... when you become a politician THAT is your identity and species.

  • Settler Marc Zell talks Jewish identity at the King David Hotel
    • Mine disappear too but in my case I assumed they get kicked out by the redundancy filter since all I do is repeat myself. lol

    • "Also, as you get older you tend to get more ethnocentric etc. It’s a widespread fact of life"

      I don't think so. The older I get the less I care about ethnic. Yours or mine. And the less patience I have with people obsessed with themselves and their identities. Maybe also my amateur study of history makes me regard everyone as a blip in the universe...our own century, life, people, all whatever it is right now and then gone tomorrow into the past.

    • @ Klaus

      Sorry, Krauss was a slip.
      However, for instance, how would the Palestines turn Israel into a friend or israel turn Palestine into a friend?
      I have always said the 'first step in that would have to be Israels --returning all the Palestine land and resources they have taken.
      There is nothing Palestine can offer for Israeli friendship except to quit fighting them for their land and homes and lives.

      Israel is never going to do that.

    • ""Evil must not be destroyed – it can be reconciled."....Krauss

      That sounds dumb to me.
      How exactly do you 'reconcile' with evil if you don't stop it first?
      Can you give me an example?

    • @ Hostages

      Thanks for correction..... my mind is fuzzed....what was the occasion when the US was the single veto?....I know there was one but can't remember which.

    • @ libra & Mooser

      Yes, the zionist had to rule Jews first or 'fist.
      But I actually think we may be past the point where that even matters, I think they've already jumped way over that. The Jews are just stage props now.

      I was listening tonight to Nagorski, the author of " Hitler Land". His book is written thru the eyes of the Americans who were in Germany, reporters, jet setters, entertainers, etc. and what they saw and what their impressions were in the 1930's. None of them saw it coming, none of one caught on till later, not even the veteran reporters adept at translating what's happening in countries. The ones that saw the massive military building up would think " maybe" something's up, but then they would fall back to 'oh that's a ridiculous thought.
      A lot of them were either impressed with Hitler or else thought he was unimpressive and going no where big politically. But they all loved Germany, admired everything about it, it was cultured, industrious, educated, refined, sophisticated, heads and shoulders above what America society was then. They admired how the German general society had held onto all their high quality culture and education in spite of their economic depressions in a way the US who also going thru a depression hadn't done.

      'One' demigod leader and band of fanatics changed that entire country and society...was what Nagorski said was the lesson taken by the Americans who had visited and lived in Germany then.

      And he said what the Americans in Germany said later, was what I said in my prior comment ...never, ever dismiss nonsense talking people as not really serious crazies. If someone talks grandiose plans and wild ideas and has any support at all, take their 'talk' seriously....because committed fanatics 'will' do the insane, they will even commit suicide and drag people with them in their throes of insanity and fanaticism.

      I think the US zionist and the Israeli government now are that just that crazy. I truly believe the Zionist cult hierarchy is insane and could do to the US what Hitler did to Germany if they get the right US demigod in office...and maybe even if they don't...maybe their zio and neo friends in congress is all they need to Panzer the ME and take the US with them.
      People should really, really take these zionist and the threat they are seriously.
      Look at where we already are ,on war for Israel, and demonizing Muslims, and the racist crap and violence multipling in the US and even spouted by members of congress, and zio casino kings financing a presidential candidate.
      I'm telling you it's getting crazier and crazier here.
      It might never happen but then again it I don't even care if I sound all tin foily or alarmist.

    • giladg says:
      August 12, 2012 at 12:31 am

      Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

      I want ask one of you zios a serious question.
      Exactly where do you think Israel will end up?
      If Greater Israel is achieved...if it manages to confiscate all of Palestine land what do you think you're going to do with millions of Palestines?
      Do you believe you can 'contain' them or keep them as a permanent underclass, apartheid like in some ghetto while Jews move into to take over their prior spaces?
      Do you think they would become loyal servants to the country and people that took their homes and property and not rebel?
      Or is the final result you envision a attritition type transfer of slowly moving forcing out of the country to wherever they can go?

      What does the final Israeli dream look like?

    • "Hence the need to dominate regionally and to “rule” the foreign policy of the dominant powers such US, Europe, Russia "...Libra

      Yea, without the backup of the US in particular to keep other countries off them I think Zell's Israel would pretty much dead in the water, so they gotta have some control over the non Jewish governmental powers. And it's getting ticklish, I might be misremembering, but believe the US was the Only one of the big five at the UNSC that vetoed the Palestine application for statehood.

      I noticed recently that Israel has initated some budget financial austerity measures and is feeling the shocks now of the global recession, their trade is way off with Europe, their largest trading partner besides the US, and the IT investment in Israel by Intel, Micro and other American owned companies is down by 40% already. 70% of all business investment in Israel companies comes from abroad so a big war would cut that off that right quick. Their press is fluffing these measures as economic preperation for a war with Iran. But we can be sure if Israel has economic trouble they will expect their economy to be bailed out with some more US billions like we have done several times before.

    • "Zrow says:
      August 11, 2012 at 7:36 pm

      What’s the difference between ‘Jewish’ values and normal ‘human’ values?
      Why do I keep hearing about ‘Jewish’ values as if they are a unique and distinct set of values from the rest of the world?

      That been my question from the beginning of all the Jewish identity and values discussions.
      It so bugged me that I swore some time ago I would quit my own habit of referring to 'American values' as the same kind of 'gold standard' for values.
      And never have since then.

    • "Who he wants to rule, the only people he has a chance of ruling, is Jews. "...Mooser

      I don't know. The Zells and similar uber types are pretty much ruling US national policy re Jews and Israel .....enough to have made it necessary for US leaders to bascially pledge alligence to Israel in their campaigns.
      I don't think we can underestimate the size of delusions people fanatically dedicated to some cause or ideology might have.

    • "But frankly, the fact that he dripped his poison in such a softly spoken manner was what put me off the most about Zell as a person."..libra

      Yep. A lot of really repulsive ideas are often delivered by 'reasonable' sounding, well spoken people and usually under the guise of some kind of 'good'.
      I've read that Hitler was a talented speaker and skillful at rationalizing his agenda for the public. The first time I read the zionist rational below for the 'transfer' of the Palestines it reminded me of how the nazis rationalized and presented their original plans to 'emigrate' Jews out of Germany.

      Humanitarian Regional Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: A Synopsis



      1. Analysis of their deeds and declarations over the years make it difficult to avoid the conclusion that the Palestinians are in effect both unwilling and incapable of achieving and maintaining statehood.

      (a) Palestinian Unwillingness: This is reflected in the fact that the Palestinians have rejected every single viable proposal which would have afforded them a state - from the 1947 partition plan to the 2000 Barak proposals.

      (b) Palestinian Incapability: The Palestinian national movement has enjoyed conditions far more favorable than almost any other national independence movement since WW-II - widespread international endorsement of their cause, unmitigated support of a superpower in the decades of the Cold War, highly sympathetic coverage by the major media organizations, and over a decade of Israeli administrations who have acknowledged (and at times even identified with) the Palestinians declared national aspirations. In spite of this, the achievements of Palestinian national movement have been more miserable than almost any other national independence movement – bringing nothing but privation and penury to its people.

      2. It is thus far easier to understand Palestinian conduct if one assumes that it is driven less by lack of Palestinian self-determination and more by the very existence of Jewish self-determination; less by the aspiration to establish a Palestinian state and more by the aspiration to dismantle a Jewish state.

      3. The latter, and seemingly more plausible, explanation of Palestinian behavior – i.e. rejection of Jewish self determination and the dismantling of the Jewish nation state – reflects an agenda totally unacceptable by any international standards and thus must be branded as devoid of any legitimacy.

      4. Accordingly if the accepted version of the Palestinian narrative – i.e. a desire for Palestinian self determination and the aspiration for Palestinian statehood – cannot be reconciled with the history of Palestinian behavior, this narrative also must be branded as devoid of any legitimacy.

      5. This issue of legitimacy of narrative is crucial. Indeed the very fuel of the Political Paradigm, involving the establishment of a Palestinian state, is the perception – or rather the misperception - of the presently prevailing Palestinian narrative as legitimate.

      C. Conclusion

      1. The establishment of a Palestinian State must removed from the international agenda.

      2. However, removing the issue of a Palestinian state from the international agenda will not eliminate the humanitarian predicament of Palestinians residing in Israeli-administered areas.

      3. This is clearly an issue that must be addressed and resolved. But it must be addressed not in political terms but in humanitarian ones.

      4. Thus, to successfully resolve the Palestinian problem, the Political Paradigm must be replaced by a Humanitarian Paradigm. This, however can only be done if the current Palestinian narrative, which fuels the Political Paradigm, is de-legitimized.

      5. Thus, the de-legitimization of the Palestinian narrative becomes a vital prerequisite to any comprehensive resolution of the Palestinian issue.'

      Jerusalem Summit-2004Rabbi Israel Meir Lau (Israel) · Professor Xu Xin (China) · Isi Leibler (Israel) · Prof.
      Rivka Yadlin (Israel) · Avigdor Liberman (Israel) · Marc Zell (Israel)

      To me this is worse, eviler than the passionate ranting zios.....more cold blooded.

    • @ gilad

      Why don't submit a program for us here on mondo to Ask Herzl? Let's see if their Q&A's are anything better than the hasbara we've seen used before.

      Ask Herzl - Your Hub for Israel Programs and Strategies
      Ask Herzl is a website that will serve as a database for Israel programs and strategies on campus. Students and professionals will be able to submit and search ...
      Grants and awards - Ask Herzl will offer ...
      Submit A Program

      News for ask herzl
      Need an Israel Advocacy Idea? Ask Herzl
      Jerusalem Post‎ - 1 day ago

      Ask Herzl will serve as a resource for Israel advocates who want “ready to run” programs ...

      Ask Herzl

    • OMG!.....are we now gonna get into Asian superiority as well?
      Yep, industrious and smart crew they are but can we quit the ethnic one up manship???????
      Just say every ethnic, if you insist on seperating things that way, has some outstanding traits.
      And let it go at that.
      These who is the fairest ethnic of them all battles turn into poking everyone with a corncob regardless of their view.

    • @ Citizen

      I think we have a good idea what lurks in the hearts of those like Zell.
      Disdain for everything and everyone in the universe except themselves.
      I can't help it...every time I hear one of these flakes I want someone to ask them the ultimate defining question...where do you think you're gonna end up with this craziness....when you arrive at whatever final destination you're after what do you think it will look like?
      I'd like to see how they describe their 'ideal" arrangement/outcome of/for the Jews.
      I'm willing to bet their ultimate ideal is so crazy even we would have a hard time believing it.

    • lobewyper says:
      August 11, 2012 at 4:43 pm
      The point is, this is what an intelligent settler sounds like when he’s not feeling attacked and trying to appear reasonable. Phil wanted us to see the undiluted craziness of his position, and he is sharing it with us for that reason''...

      I agree. Really a classic.

    • "Plenty of people are really quite dull-witted — but manage to ‘act purposefully, to think rationally and to deal effectively with their environment.’ ....Colin

      That wasn't the question. The question was--- is Zell 'rational' ---in his demand or vision of Jews being seperate from others as benefical to the continuence and future welfare of Jews. IOW would it work?
      I don't think it's a rational proposition....I think it's delusional.

      And I think a person must be rational to be 'completely' intelligent.
      So we just disagree on intelligence.
      But I'll go ask my german shepard what he thinks, he's pretty

    • "The ‘multicultural experiment’..justicewillprevail

      Well it, or whatever we want to call the melting pot, was working in the US...half assed at some times ...but at least still the official ideal.

      Now we have the fringes trying to change that....that's one area though where I don't think the nuts will succeed...we are too melted or joined, like it or going back now.

    • Yea, using intelligent really bothers me when applied to some people, it tends to paper over the 'immorality' of both their mental and emotional intelligence and accord them some respect they aren't due imo.
      There ought to be some better word or label for people who may smart or educated in some subjects but failures in full 'human' intelligence.

    • It saddens many that you, and many like you, feel a need to apologize for being Jewish."..giladg

      Probably not as much as it saddens them to have to keep apologizing for the Jews that fell into Israeli zionism.

    • I think people need to define what they consider intelligence when they use the description. I would use this one in the zionst and Zell’s case.

      “Intelligence is the aggregate or global capacity of the individual to act purposefully, to think rationally and to deal effectively with his environment.’’
      Wechsler, 1944

      ‘Wechsler eventually concluded that Spearman’s theory of general intelligence (g) was too narrow. Unlike Spearman, Wechsler viewed intelligence as an effect rather than a cause, and asserted that non-intellective factors, such as personality, contribute to the development of each person’s intelligence. His personal definition, “Intelligence is the aggregate or global capacity of the individual to act purposefully, to think rationally and to deal effectively with his environment” reflects this broader view.’’

      I also think you have to be “rational” to be considered intelligent. Who thinks Zell is rational? in his conclusion of total separation for Jews, Jews living physically, mentally, emotionally, ‘completely’ separate from the other world or within a nation as a nationalist separate identity entity.
      Is it rational to believe this is actually viable or would produce a continuance for Jews economically, educationally or a security guarantee.

      I don’t think it's rational at all. I don't see how a group of 12 million could sustain themselves on a modern level, other than as some commune type of country or entity, or advance economically, educationally or any other way without interaction and some dependence/ cooperation/ accommodation with the outside world.

    • ""We need to be separate," he said. Rather than allow our identities to become "diluted" in America, we need to maintain a "separate stream." The world is "hostile" to Jewish values"

      Oh, here we go again with the nutcases.
      BAM!.......that's the sound of the door slamming on the Zell cult.
      Go be separate...go away......good luck and good riddance.
      And don't come knocking on the US door no more.

  • The issues that matter-- in NY's state senate
    • Another Israel first speech to include in my time capsule I'm burying in the back yard.
      Maybe by the time it's dug up the US will have been officially renamed Greater Israel and it won't seem so strange to following generations after all.

  • Israeli soldiers laughed and cursed as they kicked handcuffed Palestinian youth in stomach, causing severe injury
    • Darth Vader of course...LOL
      Yea, love Aesops fable.

      Not arguing there's no power in love.....just reminding that in the real world sometimes love is not enough and you gotta be really, really, really 'against' the Dark Side.

      I would be tickled pink if love was all it ever took.

    • The nazis didn't even recongize 'illegal' killing , as far as they were concerned it was all legal.
      Israel seems a inch from considering all their killings of Palestines legal too.

    • These IDF excuse makers continue to astound me.
      Who? who,who, who, what, what, what kind of person, in a war or not, injures a child or shoots someone *just for the hell of it? *
      What makes a person like that like that?
      They got that evil from somewhere.
      Either from their upbringing or the enviroment they are in....and if it's in the enviroment of the IDF, it still got brought into the IDF by people who brought it with them from their upbringing or enviroment outside the army.
      Yea, your enviroment can affect you, can dull your sense of right and wrong as in the weak people who took part in torture and the lax discpline in the torture prisons of Iraq...but still, the instigators of that brought that trait or attitude with them 'into the army' from their own personal backgrounds. The army and the enviroment just let them act it out.

    • @ Citizen

      'Love Palestine to death.”
      As in can 'love Palestines and peace-- all the while the 'power' on the Dark Side is killing them.
      IOW....loving one side or both isn't enough 99 times out of 100 in the real world, you gotta have some power in order to employ that love against the Dark Ones.

    • Said the Emperor: ...' love needs power to be victorious, it is feeble without it against the power of the Dark Side.''

      That's the catch. Love Palestine to death.

    • ""Yishai-Karin concluded that the main reason for the soldiers’ violence was a lack of training. She found that the soldiers did not know what was expected of them and therefore were free to develop their own way of behaviour."" >>>>>

      Bull fricking shit...lack of training and discipline is a problem for the IDF ....BUT soldiers that go out and attack children for the hell of it GOT IT FROM THEIR UNBRINGING -PARENTS- AND COMMUNITY that taught them Palestine are animals.
      THAT is not NORMAL even for soldiers who never had even a fucking half hour of military training.

      ""The longer a unit was left in the field, the more violent it became. The Israeli soldiers, she concluded, had a level of violence which is universal across all nations and cultures.">>>>>>>>

      Absolute BULLSHIT excuse. Compare the number of incidents of US military members caught committing unnecessary killngs and violence. Count them up in Iraq and Afghan ..and ALSO factor in the difference of the US troops being engaged with opponents who ARE ARMED versus IDF armed troops who never face anything more serious than a stone thrower...and see how astoundingly more prevalent it is in the IDF. It's a weekly, even daily thing with the IDF.

      A young soldier doesn't know he's not expected to not break a child's arm or shoot a man walking down the street in the stomach?

      Yishai-Karin can shoved this Israeli hasbara up her @ss.

  • Barak to US: Be afraid, be very afraid of 'the sword at our throat'
    • In talking about if Israel will attack Iran or not you can't leave out the US congress.
      That's the other half of the zio nuthouse.
      And congress has been working on getting the US to strike Iran 24/7.
      With every bill they have passed they have given Israel a US check good toward hitting Iran , all Israel has to do is cash it in by making even a unsuccessful attack on Iran and the US will be required to finish the job for them.

    • "I genuinely find this charade puzzling. There is the danger that the talk will create its own dynamic that results in war"...ToivoS

      I don't find it puzzling, it's typical monkey cage rattling for Israel.

      But I do agree the talk and threats can create it 's own dynamic of the Israelis deciding......"Lets do it!"
      I haven't seen much in Israel where their hubris and emotionalism didn't trump long term strategy and rationalism.

      In fact what I just said reminds me the King of Jordon said the same thing in an interview on the Charlie Rose show last week.....that the Israelis 'have no concept or capacity' for looking at the long term for Israel or long term results of their actions.

    • "And therein lies the irony of Obama forcing Israel to put its citizens and soldiers at risk to do something that he should be authorizing the U.S. military to do."

      OMG......he actually said that?....if that isn't the epitome of the Zionista mentality and narassicism nothing is.
      Only non Jews and non Israelis should die and take risk to protect Israelis.
      The US has the Debbie Wasserman ''moral obligation'' to kill itself for Israel?

      I've considered running off a copy of everything on MW and burying it in a lead trunk the back yard so maybe some civilization after us will dig it up and know what happened to the US.

  • Protocols of the Elders of Las Vegas
    • @ Keith & Kruass

      I think Keith is right on Adelson....for him it is both Israel and the kind of no rules, or money makes right ,wild west capitalism the US has.
      He is a gangster basically, most of WS operates like gangsters now.

      And the corruption problem is global...just look at what WS did to Iceland.
      And consider the never before heard of bankruptcy of US cities , 4 now in Calif alone that have declared bankruptcy because they got sucked into the WS whacko wheeling -dealing financing deals.

      Think back to when it was announced that the pentagon lost 2 billion, or trillion which ever it was, it couldn't account for and no one made a serious effort to even find out where it went. Consider the 9 billion that disappeared in Iraq. Congress made mewing noises and then the whole investigation disappeared after they caught a few low level contractors. 9 billion does not disappear into space without the help of some government whose banks it landed in.
      The unaccountability of corruption is the kiss of death. We are a gangster world now.

    • To go along with my above comment...I don't think the world will be too keen to fund a Mashall Plan for the US if and when it trips on it's elites too big for it's britches swaggering.

      You gotta love this:

      ‘You F—ing Americans, Who are You to Tell Us, the Rest of the World, That We’re Not Going to Deal with Iranians’

      By Patrick Clark 8/06 2:47pm

      We’re not, like, paraphrasing. A bank executive actually (allegedly) said that.

      The short story: The New York State Department of Financial Services released documents today alleging that Standard Chartered Bank conducted about $250 billion of business with Iranian banks between 2001 and 2010 2007, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in fees. In service of those ends, the bank routed thousands of Iranian payments through its New York branch, stripping data from the transactions to conceal the origins of the wire transfers, and despite U.S. sanctions that sought to prevent Iran from using its banks to finance the nation’s nuclear program.

      Lest there be any doubt, SCB’s obvious contempt for U.S. banking regulations was succinctly and unambiguously communicated by SCB’s Group Executive Director in response. As quoted by an SCB New York branch officer, the Group Director caustically replied: “You f—ing Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with Iranians.”

      And for a fuller explainaiton..

      New York Declares War on Iran

      Why do you think they call it the 'Empire State'?

      by Justin Raimondo, August 10, 2012

      While speaking truth to power is not the sort of thing one expects the executive of a leading bank to indulge in, we’ll take it where we can find it. Here‘s the Group Director of the Standard Chartered Bank responding to the charges, leveled by New York State bank regulator Ben Lawsky, that SCB was involved in financial dealings with Iran to the tune of $250 billion:

      "You f—king Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with the Iranians?"

      This, by the way, is cited in the complaint filed by the state of New York: Lawsky apparently thought it was incriminating enough to include. There is plenty of evidence this case has little to do with the sanctions, and more to do with bank protectionism: SCB is a British bank, and the city of New York is now engaged in a strenuous campaign to lure the high finance crowd away from London and back to the Big Rotten Apple. The Group Manager, who goes unnamed in the complaint, is asking the right question, which apparently Senor Lawsky isn’t prepared to answer – so I will.

      We think we’re the center of the world: that’s what "American exceptionalism" is all about. Let’s say the Russian government decided that no one was to trade with, say, Italy, and the Duma passed legislation mandating economic sanctions. No one would pay the least amount of attention, except to mock the pretensions of the wounded Russian bear. When we do it, however, everyone is supposed to sit up and take notice. And of course they do: after all, the US is the epicenter of world financial markets, and New York is …well, where Wall Street is located. So the New York Department of Financial Services can act as if it’s the agency of a sovereign government, which in a very real sense it is. Aside from having one of the highest tax rates in the country, and aspiring to regulate the caloric intake of some of its residents, New York officials have lately moved to extend their reach internationally: the NYPD has sounded the alarm over the alleged "terrorist threat" posed by Iranian diplomatic personnel in the US:

      "Mitchell Silber, the NYPD’s director of intelligence analysis, told Congress that Iranians may be using ‘diplomatic cover’ to conduct ‘hostile reconnaissance’ on America’s biggest city.

      "Silber cycled a string of incidents where law enforcement questioned Iranians, who turned out to be working with the Iranian mission to the United Nations or otherwise tied to the government.

      "He said the Iran-backed Hezbollah also has a presence in the New York area. ‘Iran and/or Hezbollah remain deeply committed to striking against Israeli and Western targets and they are willing to deploy a variety of methods in order to do so,’ he said, citing recent attacks ‘plausibly linked to Iran’ in Georgia, India and Thailand.

      "’Given the recent alleged Iranian directed plot against a foreign diplomat here in Washington, Iran’s increasingly bellicose rhetoric and its recent as well as long history of sponsoring terrorist attacks abroad, the NYPD must remain vigilant in attempting to detect and disrupt any attack by Iran or its proxies,’ Silber told the House Homeland Security Committee.

      "He said authorities have interviewed at least 13 people since 2005 with ties to Tehran who were seen taking pictures of city landmarks."

      Almost no one from out of town takes pictures of New York City’s landmarks – like, say, the Statue of Liberty, or at some cultural event. Why, it’s unheard of! This is certainly suspicious behavior on the part of those Eye-ranians, and I’m glad the NYPD is taking time off from their important work of stopping and frisking non-white New Yorkers on the streets, and is on the job. What Officer Silber’s testimony lacks in geographical expertise – alleged Iranian activities in Georgia (no, not that Georgia!), India, and Thailand hardly make the case Tehran is "deeply committed" to blowing up the Empire State Building – is more than made up for in sheer gall.

      Here we have a glorified state trooper acting as if he’s Henry Kissinger, making Profound Pronouncements on matters usually reserved for the US Department of State. In reality, Hezbollah – a Lebanese organization – has never targeted the continental US. If Silber is so concerned about suspicious foreigners taking photos in the New York metropolitan area, then what did he and his "intelligence" division do about these guys?

      Lawsky exhibits the same sort of pretensions, describing SCB in the complaint as a "rogue institution" – you know, like Iran is a "rogue state" because it defies Washington’s imperial will.

      New York state and city government officials seem to hold a grudge against the Iranians, although I can’t imagine why that might be. So determined are they to start a war with Tehran that they’ve even launched their own independent foreign policy. How long before Governor Andrew Cuomo inaugurates his very own State Department?

      New York looms large on the national political scene, as Gen. Wesley Clark has pointed out, and New Yorkers are world-famous for their pushiness, and their brazen rudeness, not to mention the delusion that their own city is the center of the known universe. Isn’t it high time we non-New Yorkers pushed back? To paraphrase that SCB official:

      You f—king New Yorkers. Who are you to drag us, the rest of the country, into yet another unjustified destructive and costly war in the Middle East?

      If Cuomo, Lasky, and Silber want war with Iran, let them send the New York state National Guard over there and leave the rest of us out of it.’’

    • Let's be honest......people like Adelson wouldn't exist, couldn't operate as they do if every single sector of US democracy and government wasn't thoroughly corrupted.
      Those of us who have watched this creeping, drip,drip,drip of corruption over the decades now have outrage fatigue, and I think are mostly resigned to the fact it's so endemic the chances of it being be reformed thru political leadership elections is virtually nil.
      That picture of Adelson on his casino throne is to me the perfect poster for the US government today.
      I increasingly get the feeling we are reaching some kind of 'crescendo' of corruption, including corrupt ideologies, that will cause the kind of eventual failure that will shake this country to it's roots.
      What happens after that, what the starting over will look like is anyone's guess.

  • NYT-Adelson baton pass
    • It's developing everywhere in the media.
      Some discussion program, 60 minutes or whatever, on last night, presented every single neo hack from the Bush adm to regurgitate every single lie about the invasions of Iraq and reasons and justifications for it.
      It was astounding, like going back in a time machine to the days of --The Propaganda.
      Seriously listening to this stuff will make you"s like Chinese water torture where your forehead will be endlessly and monotonously dripped on until you say black is white.

    • ''And yet... given the timing and the money that Adelson has been throwing around lately, you wonder if McCarty is being newly overpaid for something more than his HR skills. The NYT editorial page has been tough on Adelson of late, and that whole China/Macao thing seems like it has legs, news-wise. So maybe there's a message in the hire? ''

      Logical deduction. McCarty as press PR expediter and probably with access to a lot of the NYT inside gov agencies and political contacts Adelson needs to be kept abreast of and counter.

  • Richard Cohen and the Jewish man's burden
    • Money and resources = better educations = achievements.
      A society's needs or desires probably dictates what kind of achievements are made.
      If we had put a trillion dollars into Palestine no doubt they'd be receiving some prizes in something, agriculture, medicine, water conservation inventions, whatever is important to them.
      Asian countries that don't have a high incidence of cancer don't put as much money into cancer research as those they do for instance.

      I tell you though, no one can look at the Germany in ruins in 1945 and then look at it today and doubt the cultural force of German discipline and resilience.

    • "which is something i care about because i come out of it and love the intellectual culture i grew up with, my dad being a scientist. So i think i invoke it both tactically and sincerely now, though it’s just a part of my core identity"...Phil

      Well pardon my butting into this exchange. But the above
      statement is a better explaination for your people thing than you've made before and now understandable because many people feel the culture (the people or community around them) that they grew up in is part of or formed their identity or self.

    • Those who are too young or weren't involved in business or real estate investments during the S&L debacle need to go read up on it.....the actual cost to the public was $16,000 per taxpayer in that public funds bailout. The criminality in it was the same as what we see in WS.
      The fraud and criminality just keeps going right on end to it...just gets bigger and bigger.
      True story....there was a resort property development foreclosed on that some investor friends and I wanted to bid on. The bank that had financed it for the original developers was in New Jersey so I called them to get the particulars on it. I had a feeling something was wrong when the girl answering at the bank said no officers were available to take my call. So I then asked if 'anyone' with 'any' authority was in the bank. Turned out the RTC was in the bank basement packing up their records so the girl transferred me to them....LOL. The RTC guy in charge was nice enough and eager enough to tell me all about it to go find the files on the property and tell me what selling agent it had been turned over to. So I finally got them on the phone..but opps!...the property wasn't going to the public bid had already been bought by a WS REIT for 10 cents on the dollar. Prime properties somehow skirted the legally required public RTC auction sale where they would have brought more money and recouped more for the taxpayers and RTC in competive bidding.
      That was the second level of the S&L fraud, the political and insider fraud, that most people didn't know about.

    • "I'm also pleased that Cohen openly addresses Jewish achievement numbers that I have been attacked for bringing up. "...Phil

      You don't get attacked for bringing it get criticized for not putting Jewish achievement in the proper context ----the historical cycles of minorities or any group's maturing and or advancing in various periods of civilizations.
      Yes, achievement is praiseworthy in any 'group----- but it's not unique to Jews alone in the way you seem to want to believe or at least present it ---that's the catch.

      In fairness maybe I should say it's 'unique' to the Jews in the way they themselves see their rise or achievements because they believe they achieved this 'in spite of oppression' and that may be valid to some degree, but's it's not unique to just Jews in the world's historical cycles.
      You can almost explain history and groups dynamics with Business 101---the topping out of 'mature' established markets where growth and gains have been maxed out and stagnate vr. the rise of 'emerging' markets where there's room for growth. Jews as a group had room for growth just as new minorities in any society do.
      So there's nothing wrong with taking pride in or enjoying Jewish acheivement but trying to make it 'too' unique to Jews alone is the same as those who believe in American or other kinds of group specialness.

      Most humans have some vanity in them most of us on here who think we know better or give better advice than others....but it's usually a big mistake....rotflmao.

  • Exile and the Prophetic: Have you been conquered by the bible?
    • @ Mooser

      I think I need a translator for this stuff.
      I'm not catching on to the 'flow' style of thoughts.

    • "Where would we be without the globally imperial Christianity that emanated in Europe and brought Jewish bodies to be burned in the death camps of a thoroughly Christianized Europe that is now our soul partner?"...m ellis

      LOL.......better question...where you gonna be if you keep on blaming Christianity as a whole for what happened/happens to Jews?
      What's the end game in this eternal religious grudge you got going?
      I'm not all religious or Christian, but I'd say you're pushing your luck.
      Actually though there's an advantage in being part of a small group, a religious war wouldn't be necessary, they could decide to just ignore you entirely.

    • "“Jewish global reach occurs mainly through American global reach”

      Well that's been plain as the nose on our faces.

    • Well it's sort of follow this stream of consciousness listening to a patient on the couch trying to sort out his feelings or thinking.
      But there aren't any answers in it.
      So it's frustrating.

  • Sheldon's wish list
    • I think some people just have bad taste period. Maybe it's in the eye and in the personality also.
      But the kind of vulgar displays and behavior we see a lot of today among the nouveau riche that is meant to impress others usually ends up having the opposite effect on the very people they actually want to impress.
      I've been around a few this kind and in some homes so overly ostentatious that it actually gave me a headache.... like my seeing, hearing senses were being tazered.

    • Hmmm.....not a bad idea.
      Maybe someone should approach Visa or Master Card with the idea of a American ethnic or "Patriot" credit card.
      Think of the themes, Patriot, Anarchist,.... I am surprised the political machines don't already have a Dem card, A Republican card , a Libertarian card....political possibilities are endless...every group and cause has a card these days.

    • "Odious little man."

      Yea he is isn't he....this rotten toad with his thumb in US politics.
      I think serious history books about various US politics eras should start including glossy the one above of Adelson.
      Couldn't be a more perfect photo to accurately represent this era of US politics.

  • Fallout of Attack: Egypt launches Sinai air raids
    • @ annie

      I did have a long answer for you but I hit the wrong button and it disappeared. I'll try to reformulate.

      "so why don’t you tell me what if feels like for you to hate. is it all consuming or do you find it easy to go about your everyday life while hating?

      On second thought I won't bother.
      Explaining the normal human emotion of hating something or someone bad and what the degrees are and so forth and so on is too long a conversation.
      For me it's simply an emotion that comes and goes in relation to situtations of cruelty one sees or learns about and isn't a 24/7 consuming thing. I doubt hate is a 24/7-360 thing for anyone except the really mentally distrubed. My 'hate ' for Israel is more a total and utter and hopeless disgust with it and the whole situtaiton and rings my hate bell on occasion when I read about or see something particulary bad like the children or some unarmed guy shot in the head. So far hating a few bad things/people has never given me the 'desire' to kill them or rip their hearts out even though I may rant about it for effect....I will admit to the urge to slap a few cretins around from time to time for various reasons but have managed to control myself and never even done that.

      So if you want me to say you and your attitude is morally superior, fine I admit you're morally superior and I'm a immoral hate

      You cry over it and practice love to keep your healthy balance. I stomp around and do what I can about the smaller evils, abuse and abusers that might seem trivial to you or some compared to bigger evils, but since they are the only ones 'I' can actually and 'immediately do' something about, that's what I do. That how I keep a healthy for me. Might not work for others.

    • @ annie

      Well let me put it this way....I dont' hate enough to kill anyone, never thought about or felt a 'desire' to actually kill anyone or rip their heart out even though I may joke about it.. ..although to be honest I have felt the urge to slap a few around a bit a time or two in my life, but managed to control myself and have never even done that.
      And I've never been really injured or had my family injured by anyone so I don't know how consuming or deadly my hate of it might be in that circumstance. The animal abuser might become trival in comparision but you deal with bad things and people as you come to them or as occur ...I can't think 'well this is trival in comparision to Afghan' and so not do something about smaller things that 'I can do' something about.

      "so why don’t you tell me what if feels like for you to hate. is it all consuming or do you find it easy to go about your everyday life while hating?

      Well I don't go about my everyday life hating. When I 'feel' hate it's the result of or in conjunction with a overwhelming urge to right or stop the thing, person, whatever, that did something bad or from doing something bad, horrible, whatever and in the case of Israel specifically, the inability to do so when I read about some horror heightens the feeling.
      My 'hate outbursts" or feelings basically come and go with the occasion or events, it's not something that stays with me in everyday life, it's "episodes" in reaction to something.
      Even when posting here about Isr-I/P-US I'm not constantly thinking or feeling "I hate it/them, I hate it/them" 90% of the time. But then there will be other times when I see some cruelty written about or think about the sheer unrelenting length of the Palestine oppression that will make me feel or say I 'really' hate this, them, it.
      If you want me to say you or your way or attitude is morally superior, fine I'll be happy to say that.
      But again we all built different in how we cope with the bad stuff in the world...what works for you in maintaining a healthy life balance about it all might not be as healthy for people like me.

    • ''hate) as a choice of lifestyle''

      I don't think hate or how we are using the word or emotion hate here is a life style of any of us. It's a reaction. People react differently to the abhorrent or tragic....some with anger or frustration at their own or someone elses inability to prevent it, some with sadness, some with fatalism.
      Hate (within limits) is not always unhealthy, like love, it can produce the necessary energy for you to actively oppose what you find unjust and morally unacceptable to you.
      What hate accomplishes is mostly bad, but not always, what love accomplishes is mostly good but not always. It's complicated, there are some exceptions.

      When someone devotes their life to the pursuit of justice is it because they love the 'concept' of justice or hate injustice done to real people?.......the love and hate go together in some cases imo.

    • “Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.”

      LOL...not necessarily. Compartmentalize the feelings from the actions my dear Watson.
      Good example re Palestine...the non violent protest movement.

    • annie..

      You have to understand how I, we, some of us, are built different.
      My family loves animals for instance which led to supporting a animal sanctuary and belonging to a animal rescue group that includes going after animal abusers, taking their animals and prosecuting them in court.....which besides fines and sentence includes restrictions against EVER keeping or owning any animals again without going back to jail.
      Included in 'loving ' the animals is 'hating' the abuse/abuser 'enough' to go to the legal hassle and follow thru on making sure they can't do it again.
      I don't feel sorry for these sickos or want to 'understand' them, I want to stop them. Let someone else delve into their sickness and try to reform them 'after' they are caught and stopped by people like me.
      My hatred for these kinds doesn't consume my life or keep me up at night, it's a 'reaction' to what these people are when I see what they have done.

      So far my hate hasn't killed any animal torturers and I feel very comfortable hating them and what they do and having them punished thru the courts. Perhaps some can separate love of something from hate of it's abusers.....but evil isn't some cloud floating around out there on it's own, it comes from the hands of humans so those humans are what you have to deal with.

    • "It is perfectly acceptable to hate Israel – not for who it is, but for what it does"...Cloak&Dagger

      If you can't hate evil and love justice why call ourselves a 'civilization'.

    • "american, lots of people do not hate. i don’t hate israel."..annie

      I know, but I do, I'm a bad person.....sometimes.....LOL
      Of course--- I don't hate the 'land' of Israel or everyone in it-- just the parasitic, psycho Zios that support and run it.

    • "But what they cannot explain is why they hate Israel rather than all those other countries."....vivarto

      If it has to be explained to you it would be a waste of time.

    • "although it remains hard to imagine any of them sitting down and deciding that killing 5 Israeli tourists in Bulgaria would meaningfully further their aspirations."....Nick

      It would for anyone who wanted to keep tensions stirred up...particulary against Iran, so could have been the MEK who is wild card and uncontrollable and would blow up Israelis even thought they coperate with them on other incidents...or could be almost anyone....everyone hates Israel...with reason.

    • Good catches annie...another dimension.

    • "from my perspective the most glaring immediate repercussion is how it slammed shut the border."...annie

      Yep, as always, look at the results.

    • @ Nick

      There is no point in it for Iran that I can see or imagine.
      Leaving aside amateur groups, lone wolf terrorist and the Turkey, India, Pakistan, Kurds and Egypt problems that are more or less specific to them alone---who are the major players that stand to benefit or think they stand to benefit from creating chaos that would lead to a upheaval in or for some ME countries?
      I see three that see a major benefit-- Israel, the MEK and the remains of ALQ.
      Israel believes a big 'wur' would leave them as the regional Hedgemon power of the ME, a la Clean Break and etc...
      The Iranian terror group MEK thinks they can install themselves as rulers if Iran is brought down and so aligns and hires out to Isr'merica when it serves their joint purpose.
      The ALQ remains still have the 'draw the US in and drown it' theory as a way to get Satan and Satan Jr. out of the ME so they provoke whoever, where ever they can to create chaos.
      What actual ''ME Arab country'' would benefit from a military US intervention in all the chaos?...None.
      Even Sunni Saudi hopes that the Persian influence and Shiites can be defanged 'covertly' cause a big military confrontation would leave them in a lot of trouble.
      So besides the big three, Isr who thinks they would come out on top, MEK who thinks they would gain Iran ,and ALQ who doesn't give a shit for anything but running the US out of the ME, I can't see anyone with a motive to push the chaos into a major ME upheaval.

      It's also so laughable that the US pretends to think that Iran would ruin itself by attacking Israel or anyone else with nukes and disrupt their entire economy----and then slaps sanctions on Iran to ruin and disrupt their entire ecomony. You absolutely cannot make up this kind of illogical spinaroo stupidity.

    • "On Sunday, some 35 gunman stormed an Egyptian border police station in Rafah, killing 16 policemen. A number of terrorists then commandeered two vehicles and tried to break through the border into Israel, where they were killed by Israeli forces near Kerem Shalom"

      I can't make any sense out of this attack. What would have been the goal or point of 35 gunmen (of whatever orgin ) breaking thru the border into Israel? Once in what would they hope to do?
      And making it a big attention getter and incident by killing Egyptian border police?

  • IDF uses inhabited Palestinian villages as a military playground
    • "I lean more towards the Chomsky point of view. [...] I think that a lot of what Israel does is with the consent and pushing of the US. The US is fully complicit in everything. [...]....Lefty

      All I want for Christmas and my birthday is for one Chomsky follower to give me just one concrete example of how the US benefits from the occupation of Palestine or from Israeli aggression and meddling with other countries in the ME.

  • Missouri mosque burning: Imam says 'tragedy' will not 'stop us'
    • Its all stupid...look at what some of the Jewish groups have spent the money on...putting a fence around their parking lot to make it 'private', one way windows and new doors and cameras....about as good a mid priced burglar system.
      Unless your going to get the same metal detecting equipment as the FAA and Army and hire guards to frisk everyone, forgit 'bout it---- anyone but a total idiot who wants to get in and get you, will get you. A nutcase will stand on the sidewalk and mow down people as they come or go. Nope, there too many ways for a determined person to get someone if they really want to.

      I saw on the news this am that UPS mistakenly delivered a sub machine gun to a guy in Calif that was suppose to be delivered to a gun shop in Pa....LOL
      You can make you own bombs and buy just about any kind of weapon you want in this can even make you own poisons.

      If I was a serious foreign interest terrorist my target choice for the most dead and most panic would be poisoning the water systems of whoever or where ever, any city or building I wanted to attack...totally breachable almost everywhere.
      The fact is there is no such thing as totally safe from a real terrorist.
      And the fact this kind of thing hasn't happened tells me we don't have any real terrorist just domestic nutcases and amateur terrorist.

    • "The Iman’s obsequious tone is uncomfortably noted."...ToivoS

      He knows to be careful in what he says.....he's not "allowed" to be outraged by the attack.....because then he would be attacked for daring to be outraged.

    • ''Please tell me if you have experienced the same impulse that I have, not only to see Joplin rise to the occasion and by their actions say, “ This is the real America, and this is most certainly the real Joplin. “

      Amen dog.
      We can hope.

    • "Do you resent the billions given to Christian organizations by the government as part of the faith-based initiative?"...hoppie

      Yes I do.
      Public tax money should go to PUBLIC infrastructure and institution's security....NOT to private or religious organizations.
      This is just way for select groups to exploit 911 hysteria.'s unconstitutional.

    • During the years this funding has been in effect at the DHS Jewish orgs have received 97% to 81% of the grants every year.

      "How an Anti-Terror Program Became a Jewish Earmark"

      Here is also a Forward editorial on least some of the Jewish orgs recognize the unconstitutionality of it and the favoritism..

      It is pointed out that terrorism experts say that terror groups don't target select groups like Jews in the US, they target larger general population areas and buildings.
      One thing I never see them express is any concern of the resentment this favoritism raises in the non Jewish population. I guess they think or know the general public isn't aware of it. I don't think it's anti semitic of me to say that as a citizen and taxpayer I resent this, what is nothing but another "earmark" and 'special' funding for one select group in the US. It's unfair. We've had hundreds of young people killed by nutcases, a lot of them slipping thru the radar of the public school and college systems and other mental counseling programs....that's where the money needs to go.
      As the expert from the Rand Corp. said in the article, the Jewish groups claim they need to the money because 'supporting Israel" makes them targets of terrorist.
      So consider how insane this all is-----the US supports terrorist Israel because US Jews supposedly support it. So then in addition to taxpayers sending billions to 'support' Israel for the US zionist and/ or Jews, we also have to support the private and religious Jewish infrastructure in the US of the Jews who support terrorist Israel.
      It's insane. Totally absolutely illogical and insane.
      It reminds me of how Israel has twice blown up the Palestine Power Plant that US taxpayers paid for....Israel blows it up and the US pays to rebuild it, Israel blows it up again and US pays to rebuild it again. Also just like Lebanon, the US gave Israel the cluster bombs and money and jet fuel to attack Lebanon, Israel blows the fuel terminals and creates the largest oil spill ever and then the US has to pay into the UN fund to clean the up the oil spill in Lebanon Israel created and contribute to UN program to clean out the one million unexploded cluster bombs Israel dropped.
      And on top of all this we have special police and agencies funding to monitor and spy on US Muslims instigated not entirely but in large part by the uber zionst orgs and congressional minons.

      All this shit has to end.

  • Born to fight
  • Exile and the Prophetic: Decolonizing the Holocaust
    • I too feel a bit like one Pavlov's dog when Phil and those like marc indulge in Jewishness and holocaust specialness.

      Ring the bell on the uniqueness of the Jewish holocaust--- and see how the dogs respond.
      Ring the bell on 'Jews' as those having special consciouses --and see how the dogs respond.
      Ring the bell on the guilt of Christians in the Jewish holocaust ---and see how the dogs respond.

      Yep, keep ringing those bells and taunting the dogs until they get fed up with the psycho game and jump your ass.
      Not very prophetic if your goal is world peace and Never Again and all that jazz.

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