Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 31376 (since 2009-07-30 20:11:08)

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

Showing comments 13700 - 13601

  • Adelson dumps Gingrich and Santorum's star is rising
    • While there was some support for Romney there was none for Gingrich amongst evangelicals in the Caucus.

      there's something so personally unsavory about the guy it's hard to imagine he could ever pass the 'family values' sniff test. something about dumping the wife in the hospital won't be sitting well with most american women, i don't care how much you dress it up.

      it's been a long time since i was following santorum news (like back when he was in congress) but he's a sleaze bag of massive proportions as i recall, more dominionist than not if i recall correctly. something about women not working outside the home. or something . you'd think evangelicals could find one semi normal candidate to back.

      here's wapo special on santorum women quotes:

      link to
      just a few here

      On stay-at-home mothers

      “Respect for stay-at-home mothers has been poisoned by a toxic combination of the village elders’ war on the traditional family and radical feminism’s misogynistic crusade to make working outside the home the only marker of social value and self-respect.’’

      — From “It Takes a Family”

      On equal opportunity

      “Radical feminists have been making the pitch that justice demands that men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace.”

      — From “It Takes a Family”

      i wonder if he is aware most families can't survive without that other income. or does he think women work because it's a hobby or just a matter of choice?

    • i'm glad someone appreciates my soh freddy. things have spun out so far into the twighlight zone it's hard to keep up or predict what will happen next. but i give it my best shot!

  • US citizens arrested in Bahrain supporting peaceful protest near one-year anniversary of uprising
  • 'Free Beacon' reporter attacks Center for American Progress in misleading articles that push for Iran war
    • the resuscitation of the debunked IAEA report is vitally important to the ptb and every neocon. they are depending on the ignorance of the american public. they waited just a little while and then just pretended the debunking never took place and now it seems there's a full throttle propaganda assault pushing the idea the IAEA had new valid information, it didn't.

      thank you so much for this report alex. we have to keep exposing their lies at every turn. i have yet to open all the links but i'm going to read this thoroughly.

      vitally important as we go forward to set the record straight time and again.

  • The 8th annual 'Israeli Apartheid week' is focused on BDS
    • thanks for your report Danya, new mexico, including/especially albuquerque , has got a top notch activist community. i'm sure you know that. you guys rock.

      remember this video? awesome!
      link to

      i was watching some other videos, coverage by Susan Schuurman about albuquerque's activism/ support for free palestine. very encouraging.

  • Likud party members issue call to storm al-Aqsa mosque next Sunday
    • winnica, from the english version of your link

      The flyers found near the compound reads: "Member of the Likud Caucus, along with its thousands of members, headed by Moshe Feiglin are hereby invited to arrive at Temple Mount and praise God, and declare that healthy leadership begins with total control over Temple Mount.

      "(Let us) purify this place from the enemies of Israel, who rob lands, and build the Temple on the ruins of mosques. We need not be afraid!"

      According to the police, the flyer "cause Hamas members and other individuals in the city's east to 'heat things up' and try to incite riots on Temple Mount.

      "A security assessment determined that the compound should be closed for visitors. Muslim worshipers can pray as usual," the source said.

      Feiglin himself arrived at Temple Mount with a group of his followers, but was forced to turn back.

      "Calling for the destruction of a holy place like Temple Mount is an attempt to harvest political gain through provocation," another police source said; adding that the department was investigating whether the flyers constitute criminal incitement.

      "There are plenty of elements that want to use the Temple Mount compound and the Western Wall Plaza as a platform for political gain. We won't allow anyone to do so."

      get it? 'plenty of elements... for political gain '. under the circumstance i think it's rather amusing the first police response mentioned blamed hamas members for 'heating things up'.

      btw, Feiglin didn't call it a hoax. he just denied a connection to the flyers.
      link to

      Feiglin's camp denies any connection to the flyers, calling them "a well-timed provocation."

      he knows damn well his little soirees to the mosque are a provocation in and of themselves, so he's no adversary to provocation.

    • That is why at least some Israeli journalists took the report of an immediate onslaught on the site seriously, even though it was fairly obviously near incredible. Someone was testing the water, even if not planning to take an immediate plunge.

      he's a politician, politicians say things to excite the crowds and get them frothing at the mouth. the israeli journalists probably didn't take the report seriously in the sense feiglin had any power to destroy the mosque, but they took the rallying cry seriously because it was published and circulated. for sure there are people who would love to destroy the mosque. to deny this is a fools game.

    • There is indeed the concept that the construction of the Third Temple will be a miraculous act of God.

      yeah, that is what i heard.

      Whenever you hear someone saying the Israelis are planning to do so, you can be certain someone’s spreading a hoax, or purposefully lying. As in this case, too.

      who's playing the hoax winn:

      Israel media reports then retracts claim of Likud rally to call for destruction of Al-Aqsa
      Submitted by Ali Abunimah on Fri, 02/10/2012 - 14:36

      Important: when this post was first published, Israeli media were reporting as true claims that Moshe Feiglin, a Likud Leader, was planning to go up to the Al-Aqsa mosque compound in occupied Jerusalem to call for the destruction of mosque and its replacement with a Jewish “Third Temple.”

      This was based on a Hebrew language flyer widely circulated online and that is the subject of this post. Since then, Feiglin has confirmed he plans to go up to Al-Aqsa but denied the specific contents of the flyer.

      Israel’s Channel 10, which carried one of the initial reports, since deleted its report. The update below that was published within hours of this post first appearing explained these developments as soon as they became apparent.

      The reason the flyer was originally taken as genuine by Israeli media and many others is because it is far from outlandish. A number of Israeli groups work openly for the destruction of Al-Aqsa and its replacement with a Jewish temple. The Temple Mount Faithful, for example, declares on its website:

      The goal of the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement is the building of the Third Temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem in our lifetime in accordance with the Word of G-d and all the Hebrew prophets and the liberation of the Temple Mount from Arab (Islamic) occupation so that it may be consecrated to the Name of G-d.

      link to

      btw, here's the screenshot of channel 10 newsite. Moshe Feiglin is not a rabbi, he's a Likud Leader. he may be fringe but in Israel he fits right in.

    • i'm serious, that was my understanding of judaism..that god was supposed to build the temple. maybe someone was pulling my leg.

    • I don’t think that the Jewish State can for ever tolerate a situation where the most important monument, overshadowing all the others, belongs to a non-Jewish religion.

      what are we supposed to make of this comment? according to judaism isn't god supposed to deal with this stuff?

  • Asher Grunis discriminates his way to the top of the Israeli Supreme Court
    • i've been following the downhill trajectory of israel's supreme court, the Grunis bill shouldn't surprise anyone. israel is becoming more radicalized by the day.

    • here's what i don't get. isn't there a level of self imposed separation wrt some interpretations of judaism anyway?

  • Sh*t the David Project says about Israel
    • this article is very entertaining on many fronts. i am completely behind the times wrt the current themes sweeping the internet and this whole shit girls say thing just flew right past me. some fascinating links in there that provide context wrt the hasbrats trying to get into the swing of things and what a flop is all i can say.

      , a more apropos video would be called, "Sh*t Zionist say to Palestinians." However, no one has made that video yet.

      well someone definitely should and there's an excellent blog called 'shit liberal zionists say' that could be mined for such a video:

      link to

      someone should do it!

      thanks allison, it's really fun having someone young and 'in the know' to breakdown these social phenomenons for us dinosaurs around here (assuming i'm not the only one). of course i had no idea when i started following 'shit liberal zionists say' on twitter it was a take off on the 8 million plus video sweeping the blogosphere.

  • Judge delays ruling on Khader Adnan, now in his 56th day of hunger strike
    • allison, thanks for your reports about Khader Adnan. it's hard for me to express myself about this but my silence has not been a reflection of anything but my discomfort and repulsion.

  • The Israel Lobby on campus in Illinois: A challenge for BDS
    • Israel’s aggressiveness in occupying Palestine is co-terminous with its role as out “attack dog” in the ME.

      that's funny, because when they attack, like in gaza and lebanon..somehow it doesn't strike me as protecting US interests. aside from attacking as 'our attack dog' are their any instances where the dog is doing his own bidding in a way you think harms US interests, or is the occupation more of a non entity to US 'elites'. and if he is our dog why does the lobby exist? if israel was doing our bidding wouldn't the lobby be working in israel taking orders from the US. or do you think they do that too?

    • There may be specific material interests in supporting the occupation for some elites.

      and there may be specific interests in supporting the occupation for some elites that are completely driven by fanatical drive to colonize for the sake of owning all of eretz israel too. but i suppose that's not something worth discussing..

    • If his activities clearly come into conflict with how elites view U.S. interests in the region, he’ll probably be persuaded by one means or another to change his mind

      i thought he was the third richest person in the US or something. what 'elites' are going to persuade him? and how? he is the elite. he said he was a one issue man, you think he wasn't telling the truth. you can't just dismiss a billionaire by calling him ignorant.

      He chooses Israel in order to feel like a big shot

      excuse me?

    • the Lobby has certainly been responsible for perpetuating antagonism between the US and Iran.

      gee ya think. i simply adore the last line in this 3 page 1992 nyt article
      C.I.A. Says Iran Makes Progress On Atom Arms:
      link to
      "These experts add that Iran has so far to go and so little money to spend that its reinforced military force might be unable to do more than to deter aggression by its neighbors. They also blame the Israeli Government for fanning the recent alarm by portraying Iran as the most dangerous threat to both the region's and Israel's security."

      sorry for the repeat, i gotta hand to the israelis they are persistent. 20 years later and they're still chomping at the bit.

    • It’s hard to see how the Lobby has determined that in the ME.

      so has the lobby determined anything in USFP or are they just along for the ride? matter of fact why do they bother, we would have made all the same moves without them...or something.

      the state department prolly would have acted just the same had it been stuffed w/arabists like the ol daze too. it's so hard to see how the lobby has ever determined ..anything.

    • i completely agree danaa, well stated.

      the Lobby’s efforts to pull the wool over as many eyes as it can. This is, however, quite obvious to many who take interest in foreign policy, who cannot but notice that The Lobby has been steadily opening a gap with the American version of imperialism.

      the agenda of destabilization as a means to control or 'deal with' the ME as opposed to more diplomatic or democratic alternatives is not beneficial nor particularly a choice the US would have necessarily made sans zionist influence. now that we're in it full throttle it's easy enough to make the claim it's what we would have don't anyway but i'm not sure that's the case. since the neocons are so embedded it's difficult to gauge how much influence there has been but whether we would have invaded iraq is dubious.

      the tactic of pulling the wool over americans eyes via silencing us is an old agenda. everything employed for propaganda purposes by the goi and the lobby is off limits for us to discuss and deemed anti semitic. the holocaust industry is employed continually as a justification for the protection of israel so of course it is off limits (which would be fine if it wasn't constantly employed at the service of continued ethnic cleansing). the power of the lobby is off limits particularly the way they wield that power. that's all hush hush and then when it comes out of the closet like with adelson the way in which it is discussed is heavily monitored and deemed anti semitic. so everything around that power structure is monitored. it has to be simple and structured with clear red lines, boundaries for appropriate speech and narrative with little room for deviation or exploration. and it is a cesspool and the vapors are seeping out. it stinks and because it can't be visibly seen everything becomes a debate..but it stinks. that's for certain and it's getting worse, there's no hiding the smell anymore. the MO to cover it up is huge doses of fear mongering, and anyone who doesn't think that will come back to bite them in the rear is fooling themselves.

    • so nevada, why do you think such a strong israel lobby exists? it seems rather redundant to have a lobby pushing for policies the US would adopt anyway, doesn't it? seems like a waste of time. or don't you think the lobby is all that's it's cracked up to be. do you think it's power is mostly mythological in nature?

    • same. one of the things that seem to be missing from this particular discussion is that green tends to attack those who disagree with his argument as anti semites. that's not really explored here, yet. or perhaps i am just confused.

      i also am a fan of both chomsky and finklestien and have actually argued here before the settlements are american colonies (that went over like a lead brick), so i'm not clear how he's merged my opinion with blankforts (whom i respect btw). my views are not quite as polarized as many in this debate. for example i interpret green as making more of a conceptual division between 'USFP' and the zionist agenda. i'm not sure that is really possible at this stage when the state department is chock full of neocons. zionists are completely embedded into our government to the point it's hard to find out of the closet non zionists, so under these circumstances it's a little hard to argue the interests of both countries is not the same (since the agenda of neocons is merging the interests of both, which they've done to great success thus far..although this push for war with iran is going to be hard to conceal under the cloak of shared values), from a government standpoint. but he's done a good job of it w/his caveat about "whether some elites benefit " from the occupation. rather glaring omission tho if you ask me. that's rather the difference between israel supporters and israel supporters who are israel firsters, the israel firsters support the settlements. the settlements are definitely NOT in the interests of the US, but one would hardly guess that the way we recently protected them with our veto...which is a perfect example of zionist control over conflicting agendas. so occasionally it rears it's ugly little head, like the 100-0 sanctions when obama advised against them.

    • My agreement with Chomsky that Israel is accurately viewed as a strategic asset by elites still stands. Changes in context could change that, but the context hasn’t changed that much–yet.

      That does not mean that elites view the occupation in this context, ..... But whether some elites benefit from this is apart from its relatonship to U.S. state interests.

      why? why is it apart from this relationship to the US? perhaps i am not understanding you. do you mean that there is general consistency on an economic level between elite “state interests” in the U.S. and Israel, based on both economic and military relationships with the exception in some circumstances wrt the occupation?

      do you mean the US has it's relationship with the goi and shared interests but does not share an interest in the occupation? because if that's what you mean it seems like an awfully big caveat. as if the occupation and israel are somehow not one or completely merged.

    • They’ve completely absorbed the idea that what is good for Israel is good for the U.S.; or that what is good for Jews is good for western civilization. This is the mentality of highly indoctrinated individuals, but not that of “Israel firsters.”

      huh, that can very much be an israel firster:

      'Israel-firsters' are not those who put Israel first, but rather those who put an Israeli right-wing agenda first, even at the expense of American interests.

      link to

      more here: link to

      those who have completely absorbed the idea what is good for Israel is good for the U.S, iow, those who see 'no space' between our policies can very much be israel firsters, if they are rightwing likud supporters. even i think what is best for the US is also best for israel, but i am not an israel firster.

      Despite this being U.S. foreign policy for quite a while, GOP candidates and mainstream American Jewish groups – bolstered by what is arguably the most rigid right-wing government Israel has ever had – have attacked Obama regularly for what they deem to be his deficient “pro-Israel” record, simply because he has condemned settlement construction. Obama has capitulated under the pressure and reasserted his strong “pro-Israel” (read: Israel right or wrong ) stance, for fear of losing the political and economic support he needs to win another term. Indeed, it is no secret that “pro-Israel” money (albeit, not all of it from Jews ) comprises a substantial percentage of all donations to political parties in the United States. Talking about “Jewish” – or more accurately, “pro-Israel” – money in American politics is therefore not inherently anti-Semitic: It is a given, and the effort to silence such debate is the problem.

      When progressive entities like the Center for American Progress and figures like M.J. Rosenberg use the term “Israel-firster,” they are attempting to deconstruct and challenge the notion that being “pro-Israel” means demanding unchecked support for Israeli policies, even when they directly conflict with the U.S. administration’s stated positions and its declared role as an arbiter in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

      Such people are trying to dismantle the equation between opposition to Israel’s current reckless agenda, and concern for Israel’s long-term interests and impact on American geopolitics. They are identifying those, whether Jewish or Christian, Democrat or Republican, who, as Rosenberg put it, “consistently – and without exception – thwart the efforts of U.S. presidents to achieve Middle East peace.” “Israel-firsters” are not those who put Israel first, but rather those who put an Israeli right-wing agenda first, even at the expense of American interests.

  • Hasbara PennBDS wrap-up: Pro-Israel students are ignorant
    • oh, shingo. just realized you addressed eugenics up thread. i should have been paying attention ;)

    • the third proposes an agreement with Baghdad, and appears to be satisfied with Baghdad’s bayonets

      he's referencing the population 'trade' israel tried to make with the quisling gov of iraq (prior to israel's 'independence' as i recall). that was shot down by iraq but the zionists eventually facilitated iraqi jews moving to israel, they just couldn't swing it the way they wanted in the end. now they want to get paid for what iraq wouldn't take off their hands.

      Herzl’s major goal was to create a “New Jewish Man” through various Zionist cultural and educational programs

      imo, some of this was 'new man' thing was a result of the sci-political trends of the late 1800 that started w/the study of eugenics in the early part of the century. after darwin's 1859 book On the Origin of Species the scientific community went on a mind bend, see Social interpretations: link to

      this was the scientific social climate zionism and “New Jewish Man” was born out of. it makes sense when you place it in context of that time period. except the world moved on and zionism is sort of the residue that didn't. a whole mythology was then developed around propping up this 'nation', which was, originally kind of an extension of, and belief in eugenics. i could be wrong but i doubt it. it seems logical after darwin's book scientists would jump on how evolution impacted people, societies, and the opportunity to create a utophian nation. from the link:

      Darwin was intrigued by his half-cousin Francis Galton's argument, introduced in 1865, that statistical analysis of heredity showed that moral and mental human traits could be inherited, and principles of animal breeding could apply to humans. In The Descent of Man Darwin noted that aiding the weak to survive and have families could lose the benefits of natural selection, but cautioned that withholding such aid would endanger the instinct of sympathy, "the noblest part of our nature", and factors such as education could be more important. When Galton suggested that publishing research could encourage intermarriage within a "caste" of "those who are naturally gifted", Darwin foresaw practical difficulties, and thought it "the sole feasible, yet I fear utopian, plan of procedure in improving the human race", preferring to simply publicise the importance of inheritance and leave decisions to individuals.[160]

      all this stuff was very much in vogue during that era.

      cautioned that withholding such aid would endanger the instinct of sympathy


    • 'hunting' and 'hunting season'. what a joke.

    • That sounds like a paranoid rumor. And a weird one at that.

      nope, they're always hiring.
      link to

      link to


      Research – conducts research and obtains materials with specific emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

      Content – provides written and multimedia materials for posting to TIP’s website and/or distribution to journalists/media/diplomatic community outlets via TIP’s online database system including, but not limited to:

      Press releases


      Fact Sheets, timelines

      Press kits, etc.

      New Media – develops TIP’s presence on the Internet through existing and future avenues including social media sites. To liaise with Multimedia and Web Associate – TIP Israel. To liaise with DC new media staff, particularly Web Advocacy Specialist; and Internet, Graphics and Social Media Assistant.

      Identifies/Trains/Provides subject-matter experts to Israel-based foreign media on a proactive/reactive basis consistent with the current news cycle.

      Maintains subject-matter expert list in online database system and by updating expert source book for use throughout TIP.

      Posts content materials, e.g. press releases, backgrounders, fact sheets, still photos, videos, etc. to TIP’s online database system; Edits and compiles photos, short video clips and statistics for slideshows and videos (e.g. youtube); posts visual/audio content to website and beyond

      Distributes content materials to appropriate journalists/media outlets via email, utilizing TIP’s online database system

      Works in the field to interview and gather first-hand comment from Israeli residents and officials (e.g. personal pieces) for website and dissemination.

      Any other similar duties as may be appropriate for a Writer/New Media Associate.


      Fully conversant with and a regular user of latest new media sites and technologies

      High level of proficiency in writing for Internet

      Ability to create multimedia presentations including photos, audio, video, slideshows etc.

      Expertise in Photoshop, Adobe Premiere, audio-editing software, PowerPoint. Experience utilizing multi-media software for posting images and videos to content management systems

      Language skills – academic level English required; high level of fluency in Hebrew preferred

      Passion for Israel advocacy; excellent knowledge of Israel and the Middle East

      Experience conducting detailed research on the Middle East

      Experience creating content/writing materials on the Middle East

      High level of proficiency with content management systems (Kintera), research systems, e.g. Google, LexisNexis, Cision, Microsoft Office Suites (Word, Excel and Outlook);

      Ability to work in a fast-paced, deadline-driven environment

      Must be able to work quickly, efficiently and under short deadlines with minimum supervision

      Willingness to work off-hours; when necessary, in a 24/7/365 news environment

      sounds like a troll to me

    • As an ideology there’s nothing racist inherent to the overall movement.

      yes, if it were only an ideology with no physical manifestation, especially no manifestation in palestine that could be feasible. but we know zionism is not only an ideology is it? if you want to get your friends together and practice an ideology of the mind go for it. it's only acting on those beliefs that make it racist.

    • wow, knock em dead hostage. another out of the ballpark comment.

    • Zionist spokesmen and pundits openly lobbied leaders in Arab countries to support various schemes for forced exchanges of populations.

      this was the zionist dream, now they want to get paid for it.

    • thanks hostage, i didn't realize the entire book was available online.

    • But certainly to the far right of most of his compatriots.

      they are all dead. let's talk current day. he's not to the far right of the eretz israel crowd in the settlements. and that crowd has lots of clout in the knesset right now.

    • I consider Jabotinsky to be on the extreme right among the nation’s founding Zionist leaders. His basic beliefs stand to the right of most of Israel’s operational principles.....Likud is currently in power, how does that mean Jabotinsky was not an extremist? Do you consider him a moderate?

      i hate to break it to you shak but i got some bad bad news.

      link to
      1. Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field.
      2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain.
      3. Extending far beyond the norm

      Jabotinsky is not far beyond the norm in current day israel politics. this is the new 'normal' in israel. perhaps you have not been following the trajectory of legislation in israel, or the politics. it's moving to the right. by definition one is not extreme if one represents a majority or even a medium range of opinion. by global standards he may be extreme, but by israeli standards he isn't. last i heard israel wasn't very socialist anymore. you sound like you're from another decade.

      apartheid may be extreme by international standards but it's so normal in israel people deny it exists. it blends, if you know what i mean.(you probably don't because you're too indoctrinated)

    • How would it work if the US sent all Jews to Israel, all Blacks back to Africa, all Asians back to Asia and so on, and just kept white Europeans so white Europeans had their own self determination not affected by laws for minorities and such.

      this reminds me of the poor ol gop moaning and groaning as the US becomes more colorful every year. the power of the white man is shrinking. minorities together are beoming the majority and there's nothing they can do about it. heh!

    • shak, this is an online forum. people make up fake identities all the time on online forums. plus, zionists invest millions of dollars every year guaranteeing their presence is represented on online forums such as this and not once have i ever heard of one of them identifying themselves as of the paid professional variety. until i do, myself and others will presume there are professional infiltrators amongst us fabricating fake online personas. just saying.

    • Was there something about 1800 that made the percentages of Arabs to Jews “official” or “correct” as opposed to any other time?

      wrt pre zionism? no, it was the same (94%) or more for centuries before zionsim (1890's aprox).

      By mix of ethnicities I meant Druze, Samaritan, Jewish, Arab, Bedouin, Armenians, Christians, etc.

      i ask you if you acknowledge an overwhelming indigenous palestinian population

      you said this: But there were many ethnicities in Palestine. Do the Arab get the right to rule because they are the majority?

      palestinians do not regard such distinctions as 'other than' palestinian, arab or indigenous wrt ethnicity. for example from wikis demographics of the palestinian territories:

      Ethnic groups
      Palestinians 99.9

      Muslim 98.7% (predominantly Sunni), Christian 0.7%

      so, in the context of our conversation, my question and your answer wrt 'the majority' the 94% figure still stands. just like in the US we do not divide ourselves demographically (for the most part) into religions wrt rights, representation or nationality because we're not an ethnic nationalist state wrt who is part of the american nation. this is a fundamental difference in terms of our values and demonstrates how fundamentally we do not share the same values as israel, a place that only recognizes jews as nationals. whereas even in pre zionist palestine arab jews were considered palestinian and shared the same ethnicity regardless of religion.

      jews migrated to a land with an overwhelming (94%) native population who had been there for thousands of years, and ethnically cleansed them. so, to answer your question i would reiterate that YES, 'arabs' had the right to rule simply because they were the majority, the overwhelming majority as a matter of fact.

    • my point is that diverse in and of itself is not a plus factor in an apartheid state.

      Israel does not resemble either of those systems.

      israel perfectly resembles the crime of apartheid , same crime different countries.

    • Jews in Egypt faced death by pogroms

      is that why the lavon affair was carried out?

      Thus allowing Arafat the right to immigrate

      don't you mean emigrate. what does that mean 'allowing the right to leave'?

      But there were many ethnicities in Palestine. Do the Arab get the right to rule because they are the majority?

      palestine was 94% arab palestinian in the 1800 pre zionism . so yeah, i would say that's a majority all right. is that your idea of a 'generous mix of ethnicities' or are you going to evade acknowledging an overwhelming indigenous palestinian population?

    • who are you addressing skat? do you acknowledge an overwhelming indigenous palestinian population or do you not?

      obviously the zionist plan was not merely to divide the land, otherwise they wouldn't have immediately ethnically cleansed huge portions of the future arab state from the get go.

      In response to your comment about ethnic cleansing, there are certainly other reasons..for the ethnic cleansing that occurred than merely chalking it up to racism...If Israel hoped to fulfill its mission of being a state that could offer safe-haven to all Jews it needed to ensure that it maintained a majority Jewish population.

      and what about "offer safe-haven to all Jews" at the expense of the people who already lived there is not about racism? if you're determining who lives there by ethnicity and expelling those who are not the desired ethnicity i'm not sure how anyone can divorce racism from this equation.

      wrt this violence are you implying had there been none zionists wouldn't have expelled the palestinians?

      maybe you are forgetting the decisions and agenda of the zionists congress that proceeded the outbreaks in violence.

    • I asked why Arafat needed a homeland in Palestine.

      no, this is a pointless question. you might as well ask me why i need the dirt under my feet.

    • Palestine as a state has not yet ever existed, and the idea of a nationality of Palestinians is relatively new.

      but you acknowledge an overwhelming indigenous palestinian population do you not. irrespective of identifying them a 'nationality' (which is a historically recent construct anyway).

    • Please note that the most diverse state in the region by far is Israel.

      SA was diverse during apartheid too as was the south during jim crow.

      message fail shak.

    • hostage, this poster has engaged in nakba denial here in the past. i don't know why he still gets to post.

    • Zionism’s claim to the land is based on a continuous historical, cultural, religious and physical connection maintained over 2 millennium.

      no it's not. the fact there were always some jews there throughout history does not establish a 'claim'. property rights don't work like that. zionism is and always was a political construct and nothing about it was intrinsically bound to take place in palestine. these are fabricated after the fact claims based on the desires and aspirations of certain early zionists melding biblical claims with colonization to create facts on the ground as a way of justifying the ethnic cleansing of palestine.

  • BDS: Rock musician Cat Power cancels Tel Aviv gig
  • Where is the Bedouin Intifada?
    • Palestinian refugees’ bank accounts were released to them, not confiscated....And the amount of privately owned land confiscated from Palestinians was small compared with the whole.

      shak, where do you come up with this stuff? the vast majority of arab jewish immigrants from those countries came after israel had ethnically cleansed palestinians. they tried to bargain with those countries to trade citizens but were refused. iraq was under british jurisdiction during that phase. you can't swap responsibility like that no matter how much israel keeps trying. that's not how it works. besides israel needed all those immigrants to hold the land, to fill up all those houses. had there been no israel it is likely none of those jews from arab lands would have been under the kind of strain israel's founding created in the region.

    • How are these two opposing ideas reconciled?

      "Israeli Arabs have a oppose the state of Israel as a colonial enterprise that disenfranchised all non-Jews"
      "critiquing Israel for treating the non-Jewish Israeli population at all differently"

      what opposing views are you referencing? those views do not conflict with eachother.

      equal rights is a laudable goal. But it requires equal responsibilities. Should Israeli-Arabs be required to serve in the IDF or perform comparable civil service such as the Jewish Israelis?

      in a state with equal rights that is a state for all it's citizens, as opposed to a state defined by only a portion of its citizens(nationals) who are afforded privileges not afforded other citizens (the non nationals), yes. either a draft is mandatory for all equal citizens or it is not.

    • i'm curious if you have any idea how many residents of jerusalem have had their citizenship revoked over the last decade, since you are waxing about the plus factors of being a palestinian israeli. do you know how many permits the occupation has wrt palestinians, such a variety. over 100 to move around. you call this nuanced? i don't. i call it ethnic cleansing.

    • hey winn, have you forgotten ‘They can colonize our lands, but they can never colonize our minds’

      link to

      allison supplied you with links and you didn't bother responding

      link to

    • the concept what's going on is 'nuanced and complex' is a bunch of hogwash.

      you're participating in nakba denial.

      Palestinians who are Israeli citizens, or those who are permanent residents in Jerusalem, their lives are far better than the readers of Mondoweiss imagine. They aren’t perfect, and they leave much to desire, but they are vastly better than you’d think. More important, the overall trajectory is positive – again, a fact you’d be very hard pressed to glean were Mondoweiss and its sort your only source of information.

      have you checked out this site? link to

      you're a carbon copy. someone should imitate you for comedic value, like this

      link to

    • there’s no way Israel could have erased the number of years learned.

      excuse me? i assume you're familiar with the great book robbery.

      link to

      ethnic cleansing took place. you know what that means i presume. just like in iraq and every other place cultural genocide takes place the intellectuals are targeted.

    • I feel guilty to even raise this question.

      what question?

    • winnica, your post reminds me of a conversation i had with a stand with us supporter at an aipac conference. she told me some palestinian prisoners regreted being released from israeli prisons because of the education opportunities offered there. i told her i had been an activist for palestine for years and had never heard of any palestinians regretting being released from israeli prisons. according to her they never had it so good.

    • Advocating for outside intervention runs the risk of sounding patronizing, at best, colonial, at worst. That’s the beauty of the boycott, divestment, and sanctions (BDS) movement. The call for BDS comes from Palestinian civil society and is self-empowering.

      yep, the most effective action we can take collectively.

      this report is really sad. sad and infuriating.

  • Today in Palestine
    • i see them W.Jones. sometimes you have to scroll to find the thread grouping. right now they are on top, possibly because this was the last comment you made.

    • bds is not faltering, it's marching their dismay. bradley just can't see it because he lives in israel and the pushback noise is so loud he believes it represents the masses. the masses in israel perhaps but bds is the little engine that's marching along and you can tell it is effective by the loud roar opposing it.

      this reminds me of the reaction to pennbds, the way dershowitz mobilized the troops. they have the power of the media to scream their dissent to the far reaches of the media but the truth keeps marching on. more and more people are aware of israels intransigence that they were last year or the year before. there's nothing faltering with us.

      i can't recall ever talking to one person who's ever said to me, 'i used to be pro palestinian but after learning more and more i realize israel is the victim here, once i was blind but now i see', whereas all the time i hear people say 'i wasn't even aware of what was going on and used to be pro israel but this has become untenable'. show me one activist for palestine who has turned? one. they do not exist.

  • After 55 days of hunger strike MSM finally reports on Khader Adnan
    • Is this the usual and customary standard of care in Israel for palestinian prisoners?

      the usual and customary standard of care in Israel for palestinian prisoners would include the intense interrogation/torture he was subject to before his condition deteriorated.

      Each day, Khader was subjected to two three-hour interrogation sessions. Throughout the interrogation sessions, his hands were tied behind his back on a chair with a crooked back, causing extreme pain to his back. Khader notes that the interrogators would leave him sitting alone in the room for half an hour or more. Khader also suffered from additional ill-treatment. During the second week of interrogation, one interrogator pulled his beard so hard that it caused his hair to rip off. The same interrogator also took dirt from the bottom of his shoe and rubbed it on Khader’s mustache as a means of humiliation.

  • Coalition of Syrian artists: Resistance liberates the imagination from slavery
    • More to the point however – why do you care about Syria?

      because all the neocons are doing it.

      have you read this letter to obama for regime change? link to

      check out some of the signatories, sounds like a who's who of the coalition authority

      "... The letter was organized jointly by the Foreign Policy Initiative and the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, both conservative policy organizations in Washington, D.C. Signees included Max Boot, Paul Bremer, Elizabeth Cheney, Eric Edelman, Jamie Fly, John Hannah, William Inboden, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen, Clifford May, Robert McFarlane, Martin Peretz,Danielle Pletka, John Podhoretz, Stephen Rademaker, Karl Rove, Randy Scheunemann, Dan Senor, James Woolsey, Dov Zakheim, and Radwan Ziadeh, a member of the Syrian National Council. The letter calls on Obama to immediately establish safe zones within Syrian territory, establish contacts with and provide assistance to the Free Syrian Army (FSA), give communications and logistical assistance to the Syrian opposition, and enact further sanctions on the Syrian regime and its leaders..

    • actually syria interests me a lot, i am justextremely weary of the propaganda coming out of the region (or their proxies in london) so i chose not to address it here. if you go to my archives and type in syria, i linked to some threads recently.

    • link to

      Wednesday, February 08, 2012
      The biggest propaganda spectacle on Syria ever

      read it.

    • i don't believe anything i read in the press about syria. angry arab had a funny tweet about 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' the other day, i am going to go dig it up.

  • Musings on Post-Apartheid Israel
    • american, not sure if i would classify this as a 'goodie' but it's certainly holds entertainment value. it's almost unfathomable that it could be true or representative of this particular sect as a whole ..but here it is:
      For members of Israel's ultra-Orthodox Gur sect, sex is a sin
      link to

    • american, just drafted the catpower news. not sure with the lull, when/if it will get posted. awesome news. and awesome wapo is covering it. people of conscience don't like apartheid.

      wow, just checked out your last haaretz link and video attached from the hackers. have you watched it? the comments on youtube are freaky. so far only 1,830 views but there are 1,501 comments.

      Anonymous Message To The State of Israel
      link to

    • The fastest growing segment of population are Arab Muslims with the latest growth rate of 2.8% for 2008″

      faster than the haredi? i doubt it.

      Your musings are very much stretched to provide some resemblance to the South Africa situation

      you mean the crime of apartheid? link to

      On 30 November 1973, the United Nations General Assembly opened for signature and ratification the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.[1] It defined the crime of apartheid as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them."

      yep, sounds like israel to me.

  • 'Commentary' covers its eyes and makes Palestinians disappear
    • Gaza refugees to be relocated to north East China
      Other refugees outside Isr/Pal to be resettled in Sinai, Jordan or UAE

      what? north East China! i tried opening the pdf but it was in code, not hebrew. this is the first i have heard of this.

    • that's playing with fire lysias. if there was a regional ME war israel would be as vulnerable as palestinians of 'forced out'.

    • hi blake, neither of those comments can be attributed to me, just sayin'.

    • patm, check out this weird video w/lieberman and clinton.

      link to

    • oh look, this just in link to

      Israel hopes world rejects Palestinian unity gov't

      Foreign Ministry says int'l community must clarify to PA it will not deal with Palestinian gov't that includes unreformed Hamas; J'lem threatens to revoke economic incentives to Palestinians.

      apparently israel doesn't see this as a capitulation.

      Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, meeting in New York Thursday with the UN ambassadors from 15 countries, said Israel would not accept a Palestinian government with Hamas as a member if it did not accept the international community's three criteria. ..........."The international community can play a role in promoting peace," The Foreign Ministry wrote in a paper on the Hamas-Fatah deal circulated Thursday. "It must stand by the Quartet's three principles. By clarifying to the Palestinian Authority that impenitent terrorist organizations cannot be partners with those seeking peace, the world will be telling the Palestinians that terrorism will not be tolerated or rewarded."

      The paper asserted that the reconciliation of the main Palestinian factions could have meant that Hamas adopted Fatah's line and would be willing to engage in negotiations with Israel. Instead, "it now seems that Fatah, the main component of the Palestinian Authority, is the one rallying behind Hamas' extremist views."


      The paper said that Mashaal made his position clear after signing the agreement, saying the agreement would create greater unity "in order to be free for confronting the enemy."

      and here's more amusing lingo:

      "Israel is not going to come with any confidence building measures if this agreement is implemented," one diplomatic official said. A sign of its implementation, he added, would be Fayyad's replacement.

      confidence building measures. that's what it is they are offering if palestine steps up into their good graces. measures that build 'confidence'.

    • exactly!

      i can understand the lack of enthusiasm in gaza (the earlier video). if i were palestinian i would be weary of getting my hopes up and throwing a party every time something happened. but remember a year ago when they burst out onto the streets and had a unification demonstration? it should not be too hard to forget because, unfortunately, it synced with news of the fogel murders and some news sources (like memri) claimed the celebrations (for unification) were not what they were.

      then it wasn't long after that hamas and fatah met in egypt and there were rifles fired into the air and more celebration. it's hard to get very enthused lately because of israels attacks in gaza. they keep killing innocent people.

      anyway, since the release of the palestine papers. less than two weeks later the arab spring ...they have been making steady changes. they announced the unification, they had several meetings, they said they were going to the UN, they went to the UN, they delayed/finished the quartets request and said they were going back to the UN after jan i see this as part of a broader plan. plus, meshaal made the rounds to a bunch of arab nations. i don't think this is a one shot action. i think palestinians in conjunction with other arab leaders are pursuing an agenda. we just don't know what it is yet.

    • patm, also with comments like this:

      A viable Palestinian resistance must come from elsewhere.

      ok, i'm all for resistance to occupation. if hamas, according to him or anyone has kerplunked, then what does he have in mind? someone organizing an intifada? a non non violent intifada? another resistance group israel won't communicate with? he doesn't say. assuming he is correct and this is a hamas capitulation how would it serve for hamas not to be part of a unified government? because things have been progressing so swimmingly? he doesn't say. he says "It’s not for me to say what the next move should be. " but apparently it is me who 'implied' this is resistance to occupation. hamas has been telling abbas to disengage from this faux 'peace process' and he has. hamas has been telling abbas no fayyad, so fayyad is not leading the interim government. it sounds to me like hamas is taking a backseat as long as their wishes are respected. that sounds like compromise to me. but it's not compromising with israel intransigence, it's compromising with fatah. power sharing. maybe this move best represents hamas and fatah's reconciliation than resistance to occupation per se. but since the occupation relies on and demands polarizing fatah and hamas on opposite ends of the spectrum then unification in and of itself resists the zionist agenda. going to the UN certainly resists the zionist agenda.

    • Perhaps he’s obsessed with you,

      gee, ya think!

      and if you follow some of those links they are made in conversations i am not even a part of. and generally he goes after me over nuthin stuff, just stupid arguments not worth having for the sake of, apparently, just challenging me.

    • Annie, just because you spill your guts on a daily basis, that doesn’t mean other people feel that’s appropriate behavior.

      oh yawn.

      It’s not for me to say what the next move should be. It is for me to say that this move does not portend much if anything in relation to resistance to occupation. It’s more for you to provide some evidence that it does, since you’re the one implying this.

      i don't even mention resistance to occupation. the 'implication' of my point is in the title. what's become absolutely clear to me (and i urge everyone to open this link as proof ) is you demonstrate an obsession when it comes to accusing me of crap (and these are only the comments where you used my name, it doesn't include your other insults in the course of debate where you didn't spell out my name) . you've called me a 'blankfort groupie', part of a 'blankfort brigade', claimed i called gates a 'zionist parasite', called me a coward, banal, lame brain, more blankfort association (btw, lots of what blankfort discusses is way beyond my area of expertise therefore i generally don't engage in those conversations so i don't know what all your obsessive blankfort/annie association is all about but i'll wear it as a feather in my cap rather than renounce it, but understand i don't know what you even mean). it won't stop with you.

      you're the one making mountains out of molehills wrt to my 'implications' and you've not blockquoted one thing in this article to substantiate this alleged 'implication' of mine. nothing. so take your crazy 'It’s more for you to provide some evidence' assertion and shove it!

      as for what's 'appropriate behavior' around this site take it up with management, they approve all my articles before publication. and if you think commentary magazine claiming palestinians are 'irrelevant' is such a non story why are you rearing your little head in this thread? why?

      to continue your pathetic little vendetta against me. you're like a little barking pet that can't get enough of me. bark bark bark. poor you. for your review, my point:

      it rather confirms the general public is not freaking out by the prospect of dealing with Hamas and would rather see the show on the road.

      What it signifies (and everyone already knows) is there simply is no 'peace process' where Israel is concerned and hasn't been for long long time, if ever. It's been a delay hoax for long enough and nobody is chomping anymore, least of all Palestinians.

      Tobin claims "the world is gradually moving on". Uh huh/not. .... That doesn't sound like moving on to me, it sounds like 'in the news'.

      No one in the reality based community is pretending this is over or that Palestinians are 'irrelevant'.

      People are accepting Hamas is here to stay and serious people should prepare to play ball.

      see, contrary to your continued bs, the point is palestinians are not irrelevant, hamas isn't disappearing any time soon, the world is not 'moving on' from this issue and serious people should take this opportunity to make something of it (from bloomberg's bolded section "this development may also present an opportunity.")

      you're wasting everyones time david. but once again you've provided me another opportunity to unmask your agenda, on a slow day no less, so thanks.

      your idea of 'appropriate' is calling people 'lame brained'.

      Insofar as this development is seen as an opportunity in the mainstream media, it’s in the context of what can only be called the possibility of capitulation. It’s parallel to Madrid/Oslo regarding the PLO. That likely explains the volume of coverage, and the implications of that coverage.

      yes, that is certainly the meme coming out of certain sectors of the press. are you disappointed in hamas? would you rather meshaal give a speech on palestinians options aside from non violent resistance?

    • All he has to do is open the door for a mass migration and create a destination, Jordan. That’s how.

      this has got to be one of the weirdest ideas i've heard lately. i will assume you are being sarcastic since you already commented " How in the world would you ever do it." there will be no voluntary mass migration of WB palestinians to jordan. why would they do that? when you say 'time is running out' it implies time stops sometime, it doesn't. it keeps on going. i'm not seeing any indication the sumud of palestinians weakening. they're there and don't seem to be abandoning their home in droves.

    • since it seems clear very few options seem available for palestininans at this juncture, this move is for preparations to advance w/the UN options. so, since abbas was the one who went there to begin with he will be positioned to continue.

    • see above? what is that supposed to mean? you link to a year old set of questions. everyone read the above already. what are you advocating? why don't you be more specific david? just spill your guts for us. what do you think should happen instead of this latest 'unity' move?

    • when i was stuck in the chicago airport for 3 hrs returning home from pennbds i noticed all the televisions hanging from the ceiling were on cnn. it was non stop iran iran iran. i don't know who they were interviewing, different people, but lots of 'obama is really worried' stuff. just on and on. the sound was loud too, you couldn't get away from it in the gates.

    • hey kathleen, i wondered if you had seen this brian williams report. Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC

      link to

      the report itself isn't news, came out last month again after the most recent scientist was assassinated. i saw the first embedded link, where it says (Click here to see a video report of the interrogation shown on Iranian televsion.), last month.

    • charon, while i agree with you many people are just misinformed (many) i am quite certain that tobin would not fall into that category.

    • thanks kathleen and citizen. yes, that line definitely jumped out at me which is why i italiced it in the main body of the text and referenced it as Commentary's overwraught bloviations. the audacity is truly mindboggling. there appears to be no limit to their colonialist mind games.

    • david, that link is almost a year old.

      This indicates that the US position opposing Palestinian unity except on terms acceptable to Israel and the United States, has not softened. Given this, it’s very difficult to see this going very far.

      well, they've now done it haven't they, regardless of the US and israel's opinion of hamas. it remains to be seen what they do with it.

    • david, i recommend this video: GAZANS DIVIDED OVER THE WAY RECONCILIATION IS CONDUCTED February 6th 2012

      link to

      i am well aware this chapter isn't the most awesome transformation since sliced bread and everyone isn't jumping for joy.

      however, proceeding with the UN bid might present legal options for palestinians going forward, options not available presently and i'm assuming this 'unity' may facilitate those options. furthermore, the last link in the article embedded in "Hamas is unlikely to fold up and disappear any time soon" check out "(4) Alternatives to Negotiations and Going to the UN: "

      that said, i am always weary of polls.

      the main reason i like it is it defies IS/US. it is probable US congress will threaten to cut off funds for the PA which i think could be a good thing. there needs to be a shake up in the balance of power. either the US will hold their nose and fund the PA or not. it's fairly obvious the security council will veto the UN bid but that doesn't stop palestinians from seeking recognition in other UN bodies.

      either way, i like it when palestinians don't follow occupation orders and the barking from netanyahu and the hasbarists is telling. it's movement, it represents a shift, might lead to elections and creates a wedge between the PA and the US. it wasn't intended as a cheerleading post tho. the point was palestinians are not irrelevant, and they are not going away or dropping off the radar no matter how much commentary claims or wishes. it's a stupid new talking pt and not supported by any evidence.

  • A lull on this site
    • this is a little OT but i just read it and my mind segued when i read the 'Boomer precision ballistic missile submarine' comment merging with 'barroom BS'. for a real dose of guys loving to talk about weapons and 'softening the target" (the target being the american audience getting another lube job intended to inure us to an iran attack) this just in, a step by step on the weapons needed : Iran Raid Seen as a Huge Task for Israeli Jets

      link to

      it's just constant, this attention towards attacking iran. this is the same build up we got before iraq. this is how it's done, this is how you get a society to accept war. you report about it so much ordinary people just start to accept it is inevitable and forget to question why we are preemptively attacking iran. people just accept they have a nuclear weapons program, when there's no evidence they do.

    • Evidently there is something going on more than meets the eye. It started with the unjust stoning of Donald when he made his plea for civility, a message that he seemed to be also carrying on behalf of others.

      i am sorry if donald got the impression i was stoning him. i expressed in the thread i didn't agree with his list and why. it was an isolated criticism and didn't reflect anything other than the rejection i was expressing and why. i realize that sometimes people take everything so personally if you don't align with all of someones comments. i guess sometimes things get too heated.

    • Jewish anti-Zionists and non-Zionists must join with (and recruit) like-minded goyim to get the ball rolling against Zionism in America. It is urgent.

      i completely agree. i think one of the greatest frauds on the american public has been pressing the lie that america and israel share the same values because in the most fundamental ways we do not, america not being an ethnic nationalist state. that's huge and i am sure whoever it is who designs zionists talking pts knows very well it is a lie and most americans don't really get what this is about because most americans really do not understand what zionism is and when they realize what it is they will reject it as an ideology, unless they are brainwashed (hence we are continually being told israel and america share the same values..there is nothing coincidental about that).

      it's just not natural for a child born in this country to be an ethnic nationalist. also, the zionist voice and narrative is very dominating, it just is, often their advocates argue like bullies wielding a whole slew of tools to divert, slander, evade, distract and skirt the truth.

      and shmuel

      or the extension of the struggle for Palestine to a struggle against “Zionist” world domination, for reasons unrelated to Palestine.

      i can honestly say i don't think zionists care what flowers i plant in my garden. there are lots of things even very powerful zionists could care less about dominating, but US media isn't one of them. defense appropriation seems to be pretty high on their list too. and US foreign policy. and if they are not interested in controlling congress i wish they would communicate that loud and clear cuz they sure are fooling me. but world domination? nah, like i said , they don't care what i plant in my garden. there are probably many many things zionists could care less about dominating. we should start a list.

    • i will see if i can find the specific comment in the archives patm.

    • patm, the first paragraph in phil's wiki page references I’m gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I’m an ‘Anti-Zionist,’ not a ‘Post-Zionist’). i don't think adam is a zionist either.

    • I suppose we never settled whether he was the same as the old Avi we used to have around here (I personally doubt it – very different styles)

      no, it was the same avi, he told me once and i have no reason to doubt him. he was one of my favorite posters and i miss him. even tho he imagined i had censored one of his comments at one time. he is so smart, usually.

      i worry about how the new policy might impact the site. not happy bout blankfort but then again i am not privy to whatever behind the scenes communication/pushback the site may have endured as a result of his postings.

      my guess is (big guess) there are unspoken limits..there's a level of discourse that becomes dangerous and i don't know what that is. i think many more people keep track of and read this site than we can imagine. so sometimes i notice when the arena becomes more challenging outsiders just show up. this tells me we're closing in on the unspeakable.

      there is a dynamic that goes on in threads that doesn't happen anywhere else on the internet. it's not the same a main posts (which do not tend to speculate so much) and much different than twitter (very few words). it's a place where personalities and narratives develop over time and when one of those valued voices disappears it is as if an appendage is severed (as opposed to trolls whose absence we do not notice). here we are weeks later not over him. but we do not know how many emails flew around. we really do not know. it is hard to pinpoint the exact comment that resulted in this or even if there was 'one'.

      part of this lull is , of course, because phil is gone. this is really a more 'in house' conversation of commenters than actual participants in the MW community as there are probably many more (thousands more) people who read than comment. i sense there is a thirst for knowledge of the older and wiser...something jeffrey excelled at. but i don't understand who was on the other side and what their limits were, i just think they were really really loud. but it wasn't a conversation we were privy to. that is my guess.

    • kapok, there's a really killer link/analysis someone posted over there in the comment section. just fantastic round up imho by Steve Gowans

      link to

    • some posters are obsessed with him

      link to

    • I watched, in horror, as the same PBS News Hour last night delivered a typical neoconservative propaganda line, under the pretext of giving news.

      It was a short news update on the Iran situation, centered on the announcement of new U.S. sanctions against Iran.
      In the course of the report, the news anchor slipped in the formulation that the United States and Israel are in full agreement that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon.

      american, here is great post by Nima Shirazi (i met him at pennbds!), "obama lies about iranian nuclear program" confirming this same crap:

      By blithely referring to an Iranian "nuclear weapons program," the President of the United States is knowingly contradicting the findings and statements of both the American and Israeli military and intelligence communities; the very communities he notes are engaged in such high-level information sharing, cooperation, and coordination.

      On January 8, 2012, speaking on CBS's Face The Nation, Obama's own Defense Secretary Leon Panetta declared, "Are they trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No." He added that the U.S. was "putting diplomatic and economic pressure" on Iran in order "to make sure that they do not make the decision to proceed with the development of a nuclear weapon."

      Ten days later, Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that, when U.S. Joint Chiefs chairman General Martin Dempsey would soon meet with "various senior defense officials, including Barak and Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Benny Gantz," he would be presented with an "intelligence assessment" that "indicates that Iran has not yet decided whether to make a nuclear bomb." Ha'aretz continues,...

      includes video link to

    • hi dan, sorry i wasn't clear, i didn't say or mean his latest, i said his last one.. meaning the last one before this...sorry for the confusion. it's vital background. hey, maybe there was even one in between!

    • yeah and his last one is a must read.

      When the over 160 monitors, after one month of enquiries, issued their report … surprise! The report did not follow the official GCC line – which is that the “evil” Bashar al-Assad government is indiscriminately, and unilaterally, killing its own people, and so regime change is in order.


      So the report was either ignored (by Western corporate media) or mercilessly destroyed – by Arab media, virtually all of it financed by either the House of Saud or Qatar. It was not even discussed – because it was prevented by the GCC from being translated from Arabic into English and published in the Arab League’s website.

      Until it was leaked. Here it is, in full.(PDF)

      The report is adamant. There was no organized, lethal repression by the Syrian government against peaceful protesters. Instead, the report points to shady armed gangs as responsible for hundreds of deaths among Syrian civilians, and over one thousand among the Syrian army, using lethal tactics such as bombing of civilian buses, bombing of trains carrying diesel oil, bombing of police buses and bombing of bridges and pipelines.

    • marcb, from angry arab

      Riyadh Al-As`ad said that his forces did attack a center for "thugs" (Shabbihah) in Aleppo but that they did not bomb it but that the Syrian regime bombed after the withdrawal of the Free Syrian Army forces. Let me get this straight--it is not easy to keep up with the lies of this army or the Syrian National Council: so the forces of the Free Syrian Army attacked a center of "regime's thugs" but that after the withdrawal of the Free Syrian Army armed thugs (sorry, soldiers), the Syrian regime's thugs in the center decided to bomb themselves? I mean, that is exactly the account that Riyad Al-As`ad told on Aljazeera Arabic.

      link to

    • interesting chauncey

      In response to Iran's claims, Samsung released a statement condemning the production of the commercial by the firm's Israeli branch, with Samsung's Tehran office saying that the spot had nothing to do with the firm and that it had been produced by HOT.

    • i'm completely with you marc b. i posted a few comments on the recent syria thread. wrt events happening there i'm way aligned w/b over @ moon of alabama. thing is, i don't feel i have a good enough grip on the finer pts to write a post about it.

    • you're not all alone citizen! we're real!

    • like blankfort

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