Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 22390 (since 2009-07-30 20:11:08)

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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  • 'Regime instability' in Iran is aim of leading Israel advocate's memo to White House
    • See: Paul Begley – “North Korea”

      he's an end of timer and your bio claims you are a pragmatist.

    • re the "de-facto global economic embargo" against iran. it's not going to work, iran announced on saturday china was giving iran a 10 billion dollar credit line!
      http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2017/09/18/2003678641

      A Chinese state-owned investment firm has provided a US$10 billion credit line for Iranian banks, Iran’s central bank president said on Saturday.
      ......
      Iran is vital to China’s trade ambitions as it develops its trillion-dollar “One Belt, One Road” strategy aimed at dramatically boosting its ties to Europe and Africa.
      China is already Iran’s biggest oil customer and accounts for one-thirds of its overall trade.

      there's no way the US will be able to break the deal and get everyone else in the p5+1 to follow suit, much less the world. not going to work this time, we'll only be isolating ourseves.

      this is the same richard goldberg who was running sen. kirk's office after he had a stroke: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/a-look-at-who-is-running-mark-kirks-office-in-his-absence/

      i'm not so sure goldberg was "serving Sen. Mark Kirk" -- more like kirk who was doing the serving.

      goldberg was the person who inserted the legislation seeking to cut the number of recognized Palestinian refugees (sponsored by kirk although i'm sure kirk didn't write it, since he was still in recovery at the time) -- known as the Kirk Amendment -- which was seeded by a member of the israeli knesset: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/israeli-knesset-member-seeds-anti-palestinian-legislation-in-congress/

      After Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Ron Dermer, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s foreign-policy adviser, gave their approval to Wilf’s efforts, she returned to AIPAC staffers and also approached Steven J. Rosen, a former foreign policy director for the organization who now works for a Washington think tank, to get things rolling on Capitol Hill.

      In April Wilf and Rosen met with Kirk’s deputy chief of staff, Richard Goldberg. Kirk is recovering from a stroke he suffered a few months ago, and Goldberg is promoting the senator’s legislative efforts.

      After a preliminary draft of the bill was worded, AIPAC officials went on board in an attempt to pass it, holding meeting with many of the senators on the appropriations committee in an attempt to sway them into supporting the legislation.

      wrote about him heading up the campaign to oust hagel, here http://mondoweiss.net/2013/01/point-campaign-against/

      so now that mark kirk got voted out i guess goldberg is somewhat of a freelancer. from the first link, don't miss the speech he gave to the Ida Crown Jewish Academy. preaching to the kids:

      Al tikra banaich ela bonaich. Do not call them your children, call them your builders. Take with you what you learned at the Academy – and together, build a life filled with Torah, chesed, yiddishkeit and an undying commitment to the safety and security of the State of Israel

      make no mistake about where his loyalties lie.

  • Israeli rightist Smotrich lays out the vision for apartheid
    • find the comparison not only untrue but insulting to their own struggle to break the bonds of apartheid

      dabk, this reminds of an old video i saw once and posted here. it was a seminar in south africa on hasbara by this famous hasbara guy (i don't recall his name but it came up in the context of an article here).. anyway, after the lecture there was a question answer period and one of the students asked how they counter the argument that israel was an apartheid state. and the guy answers just as you claim. ha! i don't care if some fool claims it insults the south african struggle. you sound just like emit http://mondoweiss.net/2017/09/boycott-montgomery-africa/#comment-891393 don't you know this is the go-to hasbara response to the charge of apartheid? and no one believes it.

    • I’ll take your change of subject as “yes I agree [w/you].."

      that's rich coming from the king of diversion.. i'll be remembering this comeback.

      btw, eljay did not change the subject.

    • mistaking “national rights” aka the right to national self determination with sovereignity

      thanks talkback.. i think what i meant is that although they have them, effectively, they are being prevented from exercising them due to the occupation.

    • thanks oldgeezer. i think it's accurate to say some jews recognize all jews as part of a nation of jews (as they define it) and some do not. iow, i don't think there's consensus even among jews that they are a nation or a people. but i will leave that up to them as it has no meaning for me. by using the same argument one could say catholics are a nation and who am i to tell them they are not. but that doesn't mean i don't have an opinion regarding the issue.

    • It’s not a black and white question wether any particular group is a nation.

      i posted the webster definition. it seems you are willfully choosing not to recognize there is more than one definition of nation because israel only recognizes one definition, or perhaps hebrew has only one word which doesn't apply to the most commonly used application, one of a county. but your willful disregard for the common usage definition doesn't change the reality that it exists. they are not interchangeable, the definitions. one means one thing, and the other means something else.

    • Palestinians are entitled to Palestinian national rights in Gaza if Gaza is part of a state of Palestine.

      there are no palestinian national rights* currently because they are an occupied people. even recognition of a state of palestine would not afford national rights if their rights are controlled by an occupation authority. of course gaza is part of palestine.

      *i am speculating here for i don't really know. they have rights as refugees and things like that. but until they have their own constitution and their own courts that recognize and have means to exercise their rights i am not clear how they would implement them, as palestinians.

    • I’m not entirely sure Americans & Canadians are nations.

      for your edification:
      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation

      Definition of nation for English Language Learners

      : a large area of land that is controlled by its own government

      the nation : the people who live in a nation

      Nation : a tribe of Native Americans or a group of Native American tribes that share the same history, traditions, or language

      NATION Defined for Kids:

      Definition of nation for Students

      1 :country 1. China is a nation I'd like to visit.

      2 :a community of people made up of one or more nationalities usually with its own territory and government

      … here is a race that the whole nation is clamoring for … —Walter Farley, The Black Stallion

      an american is not a nation. americans make up the nation, we are the nation. All US citizens are US nationals. same with canadians. a french person is not a nation. the french are a nation. an israeli is not a nation, the israelis are a nation -- oh, except they aren't!! not according to the israeli high court who is simply ignoring the common definition of what a nation consists of for the purpose of exclusion, for the purpose of privileging certain citizens over other citizens which is spelled out in the racist israeli nationality law.

    • The proposal you are objecting to so strongly is to say that Ethnic Palestinians will have Israeli national rights.

      i have no problem with palestinians having israeli national rights, but according to the israeli high court there are no israeli national rights.

      "Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status"

      Residents cannot identify themselves as Israelis in the national registry because the move could have far-reaching consequences for the country’s Jewish character, the Israeli Supreme Court wrote in documents obtained Thursday.

      The ruling was a response to a demand by 21 Israelis, most of whom are officially registered as Jews, that the court decide whether they can be listed as Israeli in the registry. The group had argued that without a secular Israeli identity, Israeli policies will favor Jews and discriminate against minorities.

      In its 26-page ruling, the court explained that doing so would have “weighty implications” on the State of Israel and could pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people.

    • It is only the Jewish urge to self protection that can justify measuring the harm done to to the Palestinians compared to the salvation (by circumstance) to the hundreds of thousands saved by zionism

      no, your 'urge to self protect' does not justify another's ethnic cleansing -- ever. that's brain washing.

    • Jews in the UK, Canada, EU and Australia have individual rights they don’t have national rights.

      sure they do. unless you don't accept the UK, Canada, EU and Australia are nations (or in the case of the EU a group of nations). they have the same national rights as everyone else in those countries. but the difference here is that UK, Canada, EU and Australia practice civic nationalism vs israel which is a ethnic national state. you just have to appreciate in civic national states jews have the same rights as everyone else. tough pill to swallow for some people i guess -- if you're seeking special status as a jewish national you'll have to go elsewhere.

    • That has nothing to do with the question.

      jeff, when you ask a question and then answer it in the same comment you run the risk of someone addressing your (lame) argument instead of addressing the question directly. and since you're not in any sort of position to delegate or assign what people address, your options are ignoring them or responding to what they do say.

    • just, also from the email b'tselem sent out:

      Crimes are usually committed far from the public view, and effort is put into covering them up. Seasoned politicians do not usually declare their criminal intentions, especially in on-the-record conversation with journalists. The fact that Minister Lieberman did so attests to his confidence that the planned evictions will receive the full backing similar actions – albeit less extreme – have always been given here, including the disgraceful support of the High Court. This is an official policy and is not seen as a crime.

      For that reason, last week we sent a letter to the prime minister, the defense minister, the justice minister, the chief of staff and the head of the Civil Administration cautioning that demolishing an entire community would constitute a war crime for which they would bear personal liability. This was an unusual step for B’Tselem to take: we do not use the term lightly and it rarely appears in our publications. Yet the extreme circumstances demand it.

      so, if lieberman said last month that plans were "months away from completion" i suppose we can expect this all to take place fairly soon. the trump factor. and this is probably one reason the iran hysteria is cranked up, to deflect from their intended actions.

    • one of the villages b'tselem says is slated for demolition and ethnic cleansing is Khan al-Ahmar in EI which will further cut off east jerusalem from the WB.

      http://mondoweiss.net/2017/03/demolition-palestinian-settlement/
      http://mondoweiss.net/2017/02/received-demolition-destroy/

      so frustrating / heartbreaking. all of it. so horrific it is hard to contemplate.

    • jonathan, thank you for this excellent horrifying report. the addition of the alarming email from B’tselem's executive director Hagai El-Ad is frightening. they are already planning how to do it ad the world will stand by and watch.

  • Ayelet Shaked and the fascist ideology
    • I suggest you read the original. Measures like output per acre and other profitability metrics were much much higher on the Jewish collective farms.

      and i suggest you open the links provided -- which link to and cite the original.

      n December 1945 and January 1946, the British Mandate authorities carried out an extensive survey of Palestine, in support of the work of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine. The results were published in the Survey of Palestine, which has been scanned and made available online by Palestine Remembered; all 1300 pages can be read here.

      i'll save you the trouble.

      So, according to the Survey of Palestine, who really made the barley fields of Beersheba bloom?

      Palestine grain harvest

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 210,000 tons of grain.

      About 193,400 tons of that grain were cultivated on Palestinian farms; about 16,600 tons were cultivated on Jewish farms.

      See the precise numbers, from a scan of the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine, here.

      Who made the melon patches of Jaffa bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 143,000 tons of melons.

      About 136,000 tons of those melons were cultivated on Palestinian farms; a little over 7,000 tons were cultivated on Jewish farms.

      See the precise numbers, from a scan of the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine, here.

      Who made the tobacco fields of Safad bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 1,683 tons of tobacco, on 28,169 dunams of land. Virtually all the land under tobacco cultivation was Palestinian.

      Who made the vineyards of Hebron bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 40-50,000 tons of grapes, and between 3-4 million litres of wine. About 86% of the land that produced these products was owned and cultivated by Palestinians.

      See a scan of the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine here.

      Who made the olive groves of Tulkarm bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 79,000 tons of olives.

      About 78,000 tons of those olives were cultivated on Palestinian farms; a little over 1,000 tons were cultivated on Jewish farms.

      See the precise numbers, from a scan of the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine, here and here.

      Who made the banana groves of Tiberias bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 8,000 tons of bananas.

      About 60% of the land that produced these bananas was owned and cultivated by Palestinians.

      See the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine, here.

      Who made the vegetable fields of the coastal plain bloom?

      The British government survey found that in 1944-45 Palestine’s farmers produced approximately 245,000 tons of vegetables.

      About 189,000 tons of those vegetables were cultivated by Palestinian farmers; about 56,000 tons were cultivated by Jewish farmers.

      See the precise numbers, from a scan of the relevant page of the Survey of Palestine, here.

      So, on the eve of the partition resolution, in which the United Nations proposed to allocate 55 percent of the land to Jewish Palestine (including those parts that produced most of Palestine's leading crops, with the sole exception of the olive crop), and 45% to Arab Palestine, Palestinian Arabs were producing:

      92% of Palestine’s grain
      86% of its grapes
      99% of its olives
      77 % of its vegetables
      95% of its melons
      more than 99% of its tobacco
      and 60% of its bananas.

      Palestine's agricultural produce at that time had an annual value of approximately 21.8 million pounds sterling; 17.1 million of which was produced by Arab cultivation, and 4.7 million by Jewish cultivation. (See the exact numbers here).

      So, who made the desert bloom? The Palestinians made the desert bloom.

    • whoa, RoHa. following those myth busting links...

    • You can’t take agreement for an answer had to push for disagreement?

      why jeff, i am not sure what you mean. there is plenty of room for agreement in a statement where i request your clarification.

      No I mean his rhetoric.

      for your edification the definition of rhetoric is

      the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.
      synonyms: oratory, eloquence, command of language, way with words
      "a form of rhetoric"
      language designed to have a persuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.

      and you were responding to my comment where i bolded a certain passage of netanyahu's. specifically:

      Up until not so many years ago, this country was deserted and abandoned

      so, would you consider that closer to "effective or persuasive speaking or ... figures of speech and other compositional techniques" or a lie?

      here is the definition of propaganda:

      information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

      so tell us, don't you think the claim of "deserted and abandoned" might be a tad misleading? and i noticed you didn't show up in this thread where your sidekick nathan argued all sorts of absurd things surrounding this topic such as http://mondoweiss.net/2017/09/finkelstein-response-anderson/#comment-891003

      It’s really silly to argue that the “empty land” is a “major claim” of Zionism.

      do tell!

      The point is that everyone knew that the country is inhabited. No one claimed that it’s an empty country....What is interesting about the anti-Zionist position is the fact that any silly claim about Zionism can be made, and everyone in the anti-Zionist camp will repeat it. It’s even more interesting to note that the claims can even be self-contradictory, and that always seems to be quite fine. So, you can read in the anti-Israel literature that the evil Zionists from the beginning plotted to remove the Arab population from the country to make room for the Jewish state AND you can read that the Zionists claimed that the country was empty.

      and this wasn't merely one comment, he went on and on just like you trolling the thread. when everyone knows zionist pushed that myth and still push it today as evidenced by the PM's recent address -- here we have netanyahu repeating the same meme within days after this conversation. and you call it "rhetoric". so i just wanted clarification.

      the rest of your 'malaria infested' "Culturally Palestine was dead" lies and propaganda is too caustic, too beneath me, to even address. take your hypocritical "push for disagreement" accusation and shove it. your constant inflammatory incitement defines you.

      p.s. if you'd like some links about the "ecological mistake" of draining the hula wetlands let me know.

    • you mean his propaganda? you mean his lying is often dreadful or unconvincing, that quote above being a good example.

      and when you say "in this area of policy" do you mean the policy of annexation and ethnic cleansing?

    • ellen, trolls running rampant.

    • uh oh. part of what netanyahu said in his video address to the conference:

      Up until not so many years ago, this country was deserted and abandoned, but since we returned to Zion, after generations of exile, the Land of Israel is flourishing,” said Netanyahu in the recorded greeting.

      i wonder if jeff (or nathan?)will read him the riot act.

    • Can’t you see “Jeff B” is lonely and he is trying to make contact?

      our threads are dominated with garbage such as

      "Destroying a society is a grave act" but israel attempted to do it "peacefully with the understanding violence might be necessary" like a cop having to arrest a "violent felon"?

      it astounds me MW hosts paragraph after paragraph of this nakba denying crap. it just poisons our threads in the name of what? discourse? why not advance the idea hitler attempted the rid the world of jews gently, with little violence except when it might be necessary?

      oh wait, that's like -- too offensive -- but nakba denial isn't.

    • the real question ... is do I support allowing Israel to work through the situational problems that have caused it to drift a bit towards fascism

      support allowing Israel to work through the situational problems?
      lol! there's no indication what so ever israel is "working through" anything. the noose just gets tighter.

      caused it to drift a bit towards fascism?
      an itty bitty drift or leaps and bounds over decades?

  • In my last year of university, the First Intifada undermined my Jewish identity
    • my Palestinian nephew of sorts was arrested for throwing stones, which he had in fact not been doing, and was tortured in detention without charges or a lawyer until he had a heart attack. He survived to tell his story, and was released after the heart attack because of how extreme the torture and its effects had been. This was just one of many shocking, profoundly rupturing moments from my own thinking

      yishai, personal connections , people we care about and love, it's those experiences that transform us the most. probably why so much effort is put into keeping the communities apart, so those relationships are not ever made. to be tortured into a heart attack... how tragic. i'm glad he is alive.

      another really good personal essay by robert cohen. thank you.

    • great essay and very timely. i've spent some time over the last couple days checking out what's happening in the labour party lately, initiated by the jewish labour movement, a proposal to amend Party rules on racism (anti semitism), which seeks to create a formal disciplinary processes for "life bans" from the labour party. to "resolve this [anti semitism] once and for all" https://www.thecanary.co/2017/09/07/labour-blairites-planning-cull-corbyn-supporters-surprise-witch-hunt-party-conference-editorial/

      and even tho it's framed as 'rules on racism' check out "call for NEC rule change to automatically exclude antisemites from Lab" RT'd on their twitter feed https://twitter.com/lmharpin/status/904383814633435136

      as evidenced by their twitter feed https://twitter.com/jewishlabour?lang=en it appears their primary (if not exclusive) concern is anti semitism within the party. and of course this is also happening with UJS. very sad. but at least it is out in the open i suppose.

  • Soros and the Illuminati! Netanyahu Jr. spreads anti-Semitic cartoon
    • google is my friend

    • The reptilians – oy. They’re a rather recent conspiracy theory, authored by English writer David Icke, which claims a race of shape-shifting lizards have taken over much of the world’s government.

      i am sooo out of the loop. i had no idea! SNL should definitely do a skit on this.

  • 'Voice of boycott' was heard in Montgomery and South Africa, why not Israel? Roger Waters writes in 'NYT'
    • at least as much as they appreciate your whataboutery emet!

    • ah, the notorious Kenneth Meshoe. there's a turncoat in every crowd. reminds me of arab likud MP Ayoob Kara

      A staunch supporter of Jewish settlement in the West Bank, Kara spoke at a ceremony marking the end of the settlement freeze. He criticizing it as not helpful to Israel or the PA[51] and said that the killings of four Israelis near Kiryat Arba shows that the freeze only serves as "appeasement" and is not working.[52] At an event marking the construction of a new building in the West bank, Kara stated: "The expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif brought zero results, the expulsion of the Israeli army from Lebanon has brought zero results, and the construction freeze brought zero results."[53] Kara attended an Israeli version of the American tea party protests with other Likud MKs and members. Speakers at the event called on Obama to stop pressuring Netanyahu and for the prime minister to stand his ground and uphold Jewish rights and values.[54] In 2010, Kara attended a rally marking the end of the construction slow down in Revava, that was also attended by hundreds of Christian supporters of Israel. He welcomed the tourists saying: "I say to all the non-Jews who are here, I too am not a Jew, but in spirit I am most Jewish, I am most Zionist, and so are you! Good for you that you are here to support Israel."[55]

      what an embarrassment!

    • no bottom on the Zionist barrel.

      LOL!

    • especially amusing since emitic has no idea what any of us think of genocide in myanmar or what we do with our activism when we are not posting on this site, which is not about global warming, health care, china, india or the wests interests in formenting strife in myanmar for their own imperial goals. but anyone who reads my twitter feed knows i have a lot of concern for plight rohinyga. the hypocrisy and whataboutery of the pro genocide pro apartheid pro ethnic cleansers crowd occasionally astounds me -- but less and less all the time. i've come to expect it.

      and mooser, did you notice the placement of this emitic comment? right below the current statement of ANC? whereas he posts his bs about so called and completely unsourced black south african support for israels apartheid down thread. can't hasbrat central send us better trolls? if there is such a thing as a 'better' troll.

    • uh huh. according to emit, the ANC, the Communist Party, the Congress of South African Trade Unions and the South African National Civics Organization are "hot head radical types" who have highjacked south africa!

      You can find plenty of material out there of Black South Africans who support Israel

      sure, plenty of material about all 3 of them. i recommend "South African student bodies declare, ‘We recognise apartheid when we see it'"http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/south-african-student-bodies-declare-we-recognise-apartheid-when-we-see-it/

      the South African Union of Students, the South African Student Congress, and the Young Communist League of South Africa issued the following statement at a joint press conference yesterday at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg. The groups included South Africa’s oldest and most representative student bodies.


      JOINT STUDENT STATEMENT

      There is no doubt, Israel is an Apartheid state; There is only one word, boycott!

      full text at link.

      mandela: "we identify with the plo"

    • First and foremost is that there is no room for comparison between them. The extreme violence and the actual moves to wipe Israel off the map and kill Jews, just because they are Jews, should be enough

      declaring palestine resistance is motivated by "kill Jews, just because they are Jews" is a lie (propaganda) no one believes, not even you.

      Palestinian Arabs .. are so not deserving of the type of support they get from what is supposed to be rational thinkers.

      watch out, your racism is showing again. every person is deserving of human rights -- even palestinians!

      You insult the Black South Africans by associating them with Palestinians.

      it's not your place to speak for south africans. they can speak for themselves:

      hot off the press https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/south-africas-anc-israel-established-basis-apartheid/

      Ruling party in Pretoria says Israel was established ‘on basis of apartheid.’
      South Africa’s ruling party condemned Israel as a nation founded on the basis of apartheid, and branded the establishment of the state a crime against humanity.

      The allegation was made in a statement issued over the weekend, as South Africa’s anti-Israel lobby planned to protest a conference Sunday held by the South African Jewish Board of Deputies (SAJBD) in Johannesburg.

      “As the Alliance we are now heightening our campaign aimed at boycotting and isolating Israel as a state founded on the basis of apartheid, which according to international law and several UN conventions is a crime against humanity,” read the statement, which was co-signed by African National Congress secretary-general Gwede Mantashe.

      The members of the Alliance — the ANC, the Communist Party, the Congress of South African Trade Unions and the South African National Civics Organization — pledged “ongoing solidarity with the people of Palestine” and endorsed the movement calling for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel.

      try telling the ANC they don't speak for south africa!

      Can someone please explain to me why the likes of Rodgers, Weiss and others are so willing to simply ignore the violent reality of the Arab world?

      speaking only for myself, because it's irrelevant and a diversion in terms of activism for palestine. the argument could even (easily) be made the west's (neocon) investment in nurturing violence/wreaking havoc in the ME is for the purpose of excusing and sustaining israel's expansion.

  • Senator Cantwell, are you listening?
    • by "targeting", do you mean this:

      Senator Cantwell, we are asking you to reconsider. Study the on-the-ground and historical realities that highlight the experiences of Palestinians as well as Jewish Israelis. Think about the historic role of the US as a defender of human rights, think about what we have learned from the study of our own indigenous peoples and our civil rights movements. We have been told you are “not a slave to AIPAC,” that you support human rights and freedom of speech.

      Even if you do not feel comfortable supporting the BDS movement, let’s start with defending our First Amendment rights at home. Withdraw your sponsorship to S. 720.

      if not, please give a "targeting" example from the article.

  • Nathan Englander, author of new Israel thriller, wants 'as many passports as I can get'
    • that was a great read phil, why i love your mind and your writing.

      his answer -- and fascinating downright bizarre. could someone less charismatic even get away with all that diversionary chit chat? oh my.

  • Rightwing campaign against Jewish exec who called for exposing Nakba seems likely to fail
    • total garbage. someone should put him out of his misery already.

    • what a frightening link Sibiriak. not that i'm any kind of fan of the cia, it's already so corrupt. but gads -- a wacko evangelical fanatic running the cia!

    • This is a surprisingly dishonest comment and I am dissappointed in you. Perhaps that is why you placed this comment far away from my comment which you are supposedly responding to.

      keith, it is strategically placed to break up the flow of conversation and insert inflammatory caustic accusatory off topic discourse at the top of the thread for the purpose of diverting/ending the conversation (previously taking place)in the subthread. it's intended to attract responses thereby providing extractions to further divert (note nathan picking up a segment of your response to extend/divide the subthread hence breaking up the conversation even further)
      -- it simply would not have had the same impact lower in the thread.

      catalan is a disruptive attention grabbing junkie, typical troll behavior, best ignored.

    • in this case having to do with his view on juvenile rape (juveniles doing the rape) and adolescents molesting prepubescents.

      no that's not true. i don't think you know what you're talking about re Mahaney. the church he presided over had at least 90 victims, including fathers having sex with their daughters and outright cases of pedophilia (adult males raping children). it was covered up for decades because the church preached silence and forgiving the perpetrators and counseling families not to go to the police. there's no relation at all to what i was referencing earlier. decades of silence.
      https://www.washingtonian.com/2016/02/14/the-sex-abuse-scandal-that-devastated-a-suburban-megachurch-sovereign-grace-ministries/

      in the case of Driscol, and i used to live down the street from that church in seattle. it appears driscol, the person in the power position, was the one firing people and making unilateral decisions including telling the parish to stop supporting people who crossed him. him losing his church would be the equivalence of myer's accusers being called out and fired for bullying.

      i give up. this is a worthless conversation. i also didn't mean to imply it was involving religious scandals. the 3 examples i used were all political in nature, involving the protection of a (so called "democratic") state. anyway. i am sure there are examples in other communities, i just don't know what they are, and it appears you don't either.

    • alone at night in scary places offering your body to demons…its good fun...

      one observes …and it liberates

      as soon as it arises….it liberates

      of itself it liberates

      i have some frightening stories! started to describe one but changed my mind -- too personal ;)

      may the force be with you gamal ---

    • jeff, so that would be a "no". no "group witch hunt in the US — organizing to have people fired over a similar claim as the one against myers? or salaita, or norm"?

      somehow picking on starbucks or disney doesn't quite hold the same kind of personal public outing w/the media in tow. but thanks for your efforts.

    • oh mooser, i am so well aware of what the fanatics think of me. all you have to do is google my name and you can read all the blog posts written about what a horrid anti semitie i am. why even tablet squeezed me into some shaming article that had nothing to do with me! and then they lied in the article and claimed whatever they were exposing had been scrubbed from mondoweiss... which it wasn't, all my so called sins are all still here in black and white, in the archives!

    • thanks jeff, but i didn't even reference excommunication, you did. scroll up to the top of the page. this has nothing to do with excommunication. it has to do w/pr guys writing very public newspaper articles. it has to do w/public shaming and a threat to cut off funds to a jewish history center, not that different than extremists threatening to have donors cut off funding to a university, or a political party, if they do not get their way.

      as for rebecca hancock, this doesn't really cut the mustard since it was rebecca herself who went to the press. the church didn't publicly shame her and write articles in the press threatening to cut off her livelihood. they wrote her a letter and threatened to expose her to the congregation. it didn't involve the public at all as far as i know.

      i know scientology does this kind of cult retribution.

      anyway, i guess that would be a "no", you have no current examples. surely you can find even one big public shunning w/threats and everything? no?

      I could cite far more articles.

      try one. thus far you have not cited even one article. a wiki link on historical excommunications is not an "article". again:

      link or direct me to other ethnic group witch hunt in the US — organizing to have people fired over a similar claim as the one against myers? or salaita, or norm? anything relatively current?

    • i've tried a few times nathan but i get too bored trying to read it. i even bought r.crumb's illustrated book of genesis thinking it might make it easier but no such luck. it just doesn't call to me at all. i don't mind being part of the uncultured masses.

      regarding intelligence, i'm more drawn to the idea of valuing common sense. in school, i always excelled in math and puzzles that could be solved w/logic.

    • nope, not catholic. in fact i recall being taken to the pavement here on these threads at one time for sounding anti-catholic. too much kneeling. but i'm down w/the wine and cookies. ;)

      thanks for citing me. ok, it may be true because i am an activist for palestine that i am just more aware of members of organized jewry pulling this crap. salaita, that canary site trying to prevent activist from being hired, the "Anonymous anti-BDS group publishes ‘blacklist’ of boycott supporters in New York" current post, norm finkelstein, etc etc and so many other name and shame kind of stuff.

      so, i'm open to being persuaded otherwise. can you be so kind as to source, link or direct me to other ethnic group witch hunt in the US -- organizing to have people fired over a similar claim as the one against myers? or salaita, or norm? anything relatively current? maybe it's not just organized jewry who do this routinely. by all means enlighten me and i will gladly apologize and eat crow.

    • omg gamal. nothing like wanting to hold the balls of labour party in a vice grip. wtf! frankly, i don't think they can pull it off.

    • catalan, stop lying about me

    • i got so lost on that comment mooser, something about not executing family members, jvp preaching from a pulpit and "how to balance being as humane as possible towards the Palestinians" -- completely unfamiliar (and unrecognizable) territory. i mean, how to counter argue this kind of nonsense. it takes trolling to a whole new level.

      and who said religious groups don't exercise power in America??? certainly not me!

    • Your church over the last decade has banned:

      jeff, my church? i don't have a church nor was a raised w/any religion or any church nor have i read the bible or been a member of any church. to my knowledge neither of my parents ever believed in god. my (many) siblings and i were all raised non religiously and remain so. as a child and young adult, although my parents, siblings and i had jewish friends and neighbors, i had no idea what or who a jew was, nor any reason to know as it was not relevant in our small town where everyone knew each other. i didn't find out until i was an adult who my jewish friends were. but i always knew who the catholic kids on the block were because they went to a different school and wore uniforms.

      since you posted to the main thread and not under any subthread i don't know what your comment is in regards to. i also don't recall referencing judaism in this thread (unlike danaa and keith), a topic i rarely discuss because i don't know much about it. i'll give your ideas in this comment more consideration once i know more specifically what it is you are referencing.

    • Of course I read the articles here, by the way, and that is part of the problem: I’m discounting most of the wildly overoptimistic “liberal”Z stuff, which in fact is the majority (count them.) The objective of many of these is to ensure a continued invader presence in Palestine

      lol -- nwmt

    • single swallow? just wondering if you read the article above? note the petition/letter garnering 500 signatures of jewish scholars "immediately". what do you think they meant by "A small group of self-appointed vigilantes ... engaging in the worst kind of McCarthyism"?

      and when you say "outside Neturei Karta and what with the dying off of the Bundists, there isn’t much around" it makes me wonder if you ever even read the articles here! or maybe you think every single american jew who doesn't march in lockstep with zoa, adl or one of the many jccr's (jewish community relations councils) who mandate community behavior all over the US, belong to jvp and/or if not now and nary a jewish soul who's not an avid zionist exists outside of those 2 groups. or maybe you don't think the aclu, which forcefully opposes Israel Anti-Boycott Act, has jewish employers or supporters. i have no idea how many american jews outside of Neturei Karta, who do not march in lockstep w/the "small group of self-appointed vigilantes", actually self identify as anti or non zionists. but logic demands i recognize there is a significant degree of fluidity of thought within the jewish community as a whole (if one could even speculate there is an american "jewish community as a whole" which in itself is debatable) and that Mark Oppenheimer, the author of the LA times article phil linked to above, isn't the only jew in america who thinks "What if Myers were an anti-Zionist" -- well so what!

      and the reason logic demands this of me is that this is basic human nature, for there to be dissenters of authority. and also if you open your ears you can hear the squealings of right wing tightening the noose around the "red lines" of what's acceptable and the billionaires&millionaires (along w/the state of israel) filling coffers to hold back those dissenters whose numbers are growing.

      that said, i agree w/danaa. Unfortunately, they do hold sway over many of the largest donors to political and academic causes. And therein lies the problem.

      but the only people served by tooting your 'nobody outside the wacko Neturei Karta -- "In fact.. there isn’t much around"' are those right wing vigilantes extremists and the organized jewry trying to contain the hordes of dissenters. so what i wonder is why you are empowering them and not the 20% (by danaa's estimation, i have no idea what the percentages are)? what kind of investment do you have in trying to convince us all "there isn't much around" in terms of jewish opinion re israel except some monothematic delusion of nary another soul outside hard core organized jewry?

    • (Now that Naftali Bennet has identified this debilitating condition, it behooves us to look for anything which might contribute to it.)

      mooser, i am shocked you don't read all my comments, i thought you never slept! as i
      explained here: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/09/auto-semite-simple/#comment-890126

      it was jeffrey goldberg who first identified this debilitating condition!

      oh no... i hte to break it to you guys but jeffrey goldberg published it first, referencing glenn greenwald in 2012. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/01/more-on-glenn-greenwald-israel-firsters-and-idiot-editors-updated/251852/

      Self-hatred is a deeply-inexact description of the people this reader is trying to describe. In my experience, those Jews who consciously set themselves apart from the Jewish majority in the disgust they display for Israel, or for the principles of their faith, are often narcissists, and therefore seem to suffer from an excess of self-regard, rather than self-loathing. "Self-hater" is a euphemism, then, for "auto-anti-Semite," or some other such locution.

      h/t yakov hirsh https://twitter.com/YakovHirsch/status/902061186690072578

    • As for speaking for most Jewish Americans, of course they don’t. Unfortunately, they do hold sway over many of the largest donors to political and academic causes. And therein lies the problem. You can’t fire these organizations, even if they don’t speak for you. Not if livelihoods and careers depend on the largess of donors.

      absolutely danaa, and when they act in these vindictive ways or support others who do while professing to speak for the jewish community it can cause the effect of silencing others, obviously including people outside the jewish community who i would assume think this sort of activity is twisted/bizarre/grotesque. and it's in that silence resentment builds. plus, we have very vocal people (one right here on this thread) insisting these mouthpieces and organizations do represent (and resemble) "jews". it's so blatantly gross.

      and if Israel were to bomb every structure to smitherins in Gaza, killing 100’s of 1000’s “organized Jewry” would find reasons to “justify” that, if not cheer them outright

      a tad OT but this reminds me of this gruesome article i just read. about israel’s next war on lebanon Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel "Israeli commanders reveal plans for mass evacuation of Lebanese civilians in next war"
      https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2017/06/21/israeli-commanders-reveal-plans-for-mass-evacuation-of-lebanese-civilians-in-next-war/#.WZWLyTsBqmo.facebook

      just a horrid article describing all their airpower. and of course, no mention of where they plan on evacuating civilians. and maybe they don't know everyone in the south is hezbollah. it's a people's party.

      here's Eshel saying the same thing in may 2014, bragging on firepower re lebanon in the next war

      https://www.timesofisrael.com/air-force-chief-lauds-400-firepower-increase-in-2-years/

      and the 1st link says  

      He noted, presumably in reference to Israel's war in Gaza during the summer of 2014, that the Israeli Air Force "has had [the] opportunity to test ourselves, so what I'm saying is not just a theory."

      iow, gaza was their guinea pig. their provable slaughterhouse. the stuff he was saying in may 2014, now he's proved they can demolish and kill faster! 400% more effectively!

      is this sick or what?

    • i don't have to prove to you or anyone else jewish mouthpieces who continually try to speak for some jewish group-think represent the jewish community nor do i need "ironclad data", because i know many jewish people who are in jewish community who they don't represent. there's some hint of what i mean in cecilie surasky's article. http://mondoweiss.net/2013/05/francisco-apartheid-backlash/

      Once again, i don't profess to have exclusive, private property of all permissible takes on discussing what i have written. no matter what you exactly intended at the start (and yes, we all get what you intended, thank you.) Others can pull the discussion to what they consider more interesting instead if they want to, and you don’t have to make a federal case out of it.

      that said, if you want to debate this topic, it won't be me discussing it with you. you don't have exclusive, private property of all permissible takes on discussing what you have written. and i can disagree with it as much as i want or blow off your little diversionary lectures about being enslaved or anything else i care to ignore. later!

    • “we” have, to the contrary, helped them more than any country..No if.

      oh wow, more pearls of wisdom. i simply had no idea. snark/ anyway, my analogy was to african americans who had been enslaved.

      That’s something you could only prove with ironclad data.

      no it's not. it's common sense. organized jewry that is constantly pretending to speak for the jewish community generally speaks in one voice and they chastize members of their own community who don't tow the line. and the belief that all jews think alike is a myth they want outsiders to believe (to give themselves more power) and it's not true. jews are all over the map. if organized jewry represented the vast majority of jews they would proudly publish their membership lists -- and they don't. especially in places like the SF bay area. sure there are pockets around the county where the jewish community may be of the same mind but all one has to do is step onto any college campus to find out jewish opinion is not in lockstep.

    • and just to add to this hysteria, this anti bds legislation sweeping the country which directly targets people's livelihood, in california for instance, this is not sponsored by the California Legislative Zionist Caucus, it is sponsored by the California Legislative Jewish Caucus. organized jewry is constantly pretending to speak for the jewish community even tho they don't. other groups don't have the same kind of power to pull this kind of crap all the time nor the media/finance behind them to place full page ads in papers and hire fancy pr guys or lobbiests to get their opinions plastered all over the msm at the drop of a hat. it's not the same. if we had enslaved jews for hundreds of years you better believe we'd be paying reparations till the cows come home. you better believe there would not be monuments to their slave masters all over the country but instead big fancy museums dedicated to shaming those slave masters -- in every state! african americas? hell no.

    • If it is not a racist offense to pass comment on the activities of a group such as BLM, Council of Conservative Citizens or American Renaissance, how can it be a racist offense to criticize Zionist groups?

      but i wasn't really talking about 'passing comment'. if i don't like some tactic or policy of BLM or Conservative Citizens or American Renaissance and i say something about that it could start a public debate or someone to make some rude retort or an argument could ensue or whatever. that's different than having the power to take away my job, like in the recent instance of Carlos Ramirez-Rosa having been immediately kicked off the ticket, or loud public and published slanderous accusations against keith ellison along w/ millionaires threatening to walk from the dem party if he became chairman, and the list goes on and on.

      it might not be a racist offense to criticize Zionist groups, but what if one becomes literally afraid of crossing them and fears for their livelihood and ones families livelihood not to agree with them? might this not lead to an irrational fear of jews? for some people anyway? this is what i mean. because irrational fears can turn into irrational hatred.

    • i wonder if it occurs to anyone (besides myself) that this sort of compulsive vindictive behavior, which seems to be kind of a penchant for radical right wing jews, could lead to an increase in anti semitism?

      i am stunned by, not just how spiteful this kind of smear activity is, but that "several rightwing Jewish publications" are even willing to publish it. it's not just this campaign against myers either, it seems to be a pattern. one easily documented.

      maybe it is not uncommon for other groups to actively lobby for people to be fired (over non violent perceived political/ideological differences) and i just don't hear about it very much or it's done behind closed doors.

      also, since the authors of the hit piece are professional pr guys*. do you think they are getting paid for writing this? are they working for clients/higher ups who do not want their names associated with this smear campaign against myers?

      *or "pr" by other names such as 'political consultant', ie birnbaurm's wiki page says "His work includes polling, strategy, paid media". this is a glamorized name for a pr guy.

  • Lessons from Finkelstein: a response to Seth Anderson
    • tony, i wouldn't give it too much thought. if you click on nathan's name you access his archives. it doesn't take long to figure out his MO.

    • thanks tony!

      Only a mass movement from below will be able to change the political geography of Palestine and the Middle East.

      exactly. for my thoughts on creating/sustaining that mass movement, my comments are in seth's thread.

  • Israeli support for Myanmar is the natural alliance of regimes based on ethnic supremacy
    • I find it incredibly disingenous to conveniently isolate all blame on the current state of the Middle East, in particular Palestine, to the Israeli lobby

      bont, i find it incredibly disingenuous to conveniently not cite one word, phrase, sentence or quote me in any way and then have the audacity to lecture me as if you had. try harder.

    • US would spend an extra $12 to $15 billion per year to replace what it gets from Israel

      jack, did you copy paste that verbatim w/out accreditation or are you johnson11b ?https://disqus.com/home/discussion/truthdig/palestine_remains_the_greatest_moral_issue_of_our_time_truthdig/

      either way, can you source that w/a link please? i'd like to read the context, the date and who wrote the aticle. thanks.

    • yes, we all know that via israel lobby grip on congress the US enables israel -- and contrary to your ridiculous allegations it doesn't mean we get to "maintain a relatively clean image" by that enabling. but what you have not established (but i am sure you will keep trying since, despite your denials, defending/excusing/justifying israel is your forte) is that we "need" israel. we certainly wouldn't need to enable israel if their lobby didn't hold power over congress. if they were not breathing down our collective throats w/their aipac legislation constantly.

    • Billions of dollars to Israel means little in the grand scheme of things.

      always showing your true colors silamcuz

    • hops, the relationship between myanmar and other (all others i would guess) countries is based on it's vital geostrategic location between the south china sea, the strait of malacca, and the persian gulf.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-so-many-nations-want-to-control-the-south-china-sea-2017-9

      The South China Sea plays an outsized role in international commerce and politics. A litany of regional and global powers crave its natural resources as well as the benefits that come with controlling on of the world's most important shipping lanes.

      China has aggressively pursued control over the Spratley Islands — an archipelago of rocks, reefs and cays that sit in the middle of the sea. Malaysia, Brunei, The Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan have staked their own claims to the area, but it's really the United States Navy that stands in the way of China. The Seventh Fleet, however, cannot keep China from reclaiming land on the islands it controls.

      china can bypass the strait of malacca bottleneck with a pipeline going thru myanmar. china invests a lot in myanmar (as it does @ gwadar port in pakistan and other strategic locations) and the US seeks to dim china's influence there -- of which it has a lot. as b @moon of alabama explains

      Pipelines from the western coast of Myanmar eastwards to China allow hydrocarbon imports from the Persian Gulf to China while avoiding the bottleneck of the Strait of Malacca and disputed parts of the South China Sea.

      It is in "Western interest" to hinder China's projects in Myanmar. Inciting Jihad in Rakhine could help to achieve that. There is historic precedence for such a Rohingya - Bamar proxy war in Burma. During World War II British imperial forces incited the Rohingya Muslim in Rakhine to fight the Bamar, the dominant Burmese nationalist Buddhists allied with Japanese imperialists.

      http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/09/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists.html

      a lot can be explained by simply looking at a map. check out "BCIM Economic Corridor" or the brief video at http://www.firstpost.com/business/linking-cpec-with-bangladesh-china-india-myanmar-corridor-will-benefit-people-china-3749181.html :

      "Brushing aside India's concerns, China on Monday stressed the need to link the controversial CPEC with the Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar Corridor."

      these corridors bypassing the south china sea, (where i think the US may currently dominate) are heavily dependent on myanmar. and there are lots of islands in the south china sea that china has military bases on.

      re germany and iran? another time perhaps.

      p.s. i have a good friend (totally non political) who moved to myanmar 3 years ago to work on a permaculture farm. he had never heard of the rohingya and i sort of warned him about getting too attached to the place. the first year i didn't hear much from him in the way of politics. the second year he became involved because of this daughter of some military guy who started building this humongous hotel on sacred land right near their farm. without permits or anything w/huge bulldozers plowing thru ruining the sacred site and hauling off artifacts and the locals could do nothing about it because the military does whatever they want whenever they want, lots of times at the behest of chinese developers. when i last spoke with him (a week ago aprox) he was going on about chinese investment 'everywhere' and how important myanmar is because of these corridors and gave me a name, an acronym to look up about a trade corridor, but i forgot what it was (not bcim). i think he's beginning to realize the strategic importance of myanmar, something i informed him about before he left.

    • Israels existance allow America to continue exert themselves in global geopolitics.

      something tells me the US would have no trouble exerting themselves in global geopolitics sans lil israel pressuring them to bomb iran and other such dangerous destructive war mongering agendas. the US is no safer now than we were before israel colonized palestine.

      If Israel ceases to exist, then America will be the sole settler-colonial regime in the world and therefore will face existential threat from inside.

      lol! you mean all those radical US zionists will start blowing things up here if israel doesn't get their way! never mind, that wasn't really a question. i'm sort of done on this topic.

    • I am talking about the government and the state, not the people.

      oh, how odd. and all this time i thought the government and the state were supposed to be representing the people (of american that is, not israel).

      both are playing the same game against the wider global community.

      oh that's interesting. america against the wider global community. this is exactly what i meant by "the US doesn’t need israel."

    • the US doesn't need israel. not for maintaining their status quo or for anything else. that is absurd.

  • Anonymous anti-BDS group publishes 'blacklist' of boycott supporters in New York
  • Democratic candidate for Illinois gov'r fires his running mate over BDS
    • There is no return for the generations after the 600 who were told to leave

      how did this nakba denial pass moderation?

      the nomadic tribes that declared themselves to be Palestinian in 1963

      what's happening to this place? gross.

  • One magical night in Yaffa
  • 'Nazi stuff': The Israeli government takes on African refugees
    • catalan just blathers away as all hell is about to break loose. http://mondoweiss.net/2017/09/rightist-smotrich-apartheid/ he's disgusting.

    • That’s nice, but the discussion wasn’t about the right to hold beliefs, it was about who should be responsible for Israel’s actions.

      before we get too carried away here, i thought i'd point out "who should be responsible for Israel’s actions", originally, was catalan's divert from the "conversation". because Bertolt Brecht's comment 'let everyone speak about his own disgrace', is not about (primarily or otherwise) taking responsibility per se. it's about being fearless (in ones own introspection).

  • 'I will shoot you in front of your mother '-- Israeli forces follow through on threat to Palestinian youth
  • Two Chicago pols break over BDS, as U.S. Jews divide over Israel
    • keith, more twisted hypocritical war mongoring aipac written legislation served up by leading dems! when will they end this madness!

    • excellent article misterioso, great wrap up. i have been following this closely since before netanyahu's last trip to visit putin interrupting his holiday to insert his demands into the process. but other aspects of her report were new to me. and sorry for my later reply (houseguest!)

      you probably heard israel bombed a syrian research facility killing two guards in the wee hrs of the morning (yesterday morning depending on where you are). i'm sure it has to do w/syria's successes in recent days.

      Israel finds itself in a precarious position as the Syrian civil war grinds on: The United States, its main global ally, has struck a deal with Russia, Syria’s main benefactor, on a cease-fire that is mostly holding; Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is now more in control of his country than at any point since the civil war began more than five years ago; and Iran, which Israel views as an existential threat, and Hezbollah, which it battled for years in Lebanon, have emerged even stronger than they were before the conflict began.

      Thursday’s strike, while signaling to its adversaries that Israel will not sit by as forces inimical to it gain strength, also sends a message to the Trump administration that any political resolution of the Syrian conflict must take into account Israel’s long-term security interests. Israel has diplomatic relations with only two of its immediate neighbors, Egypt and Jordan. While it has an unacknowledged relationship with Saudi Arabia, arguably the most important Arab nation, forged on their mutual antipathy toward Iran, Israel views its immediate neighbors as strategic problems. It occupied parts of Lebanon for 22 years until 2000, first to fight Palestinian militants and then to battle Hezbollah; and Syria, where the Assad regime has increased its reliance on Tehran.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/09/israel-syria/539076/

      so, syria complained to the UN, and all the msm here are claiming israel (may have) hit a chemical weapons research facility -- plausible deniability total bs.

      israel is occupying syrian golan because assad has increased its reliance on tehran? say wha? israel is pissed their demands were not met by the US or russia so they punish syria. they need to be slapped down bigtime. they want to keep the war going in syria.

    • It is an addition to two similar schools which have been established in areas controlled by the armed groups near the borders of the occupied Golan Heights....the syllabus will entrench a different perspective about Israel and that pupils will go on to study in Israeli universities.

      israel wouldn't be eyeing expanding their occupation of the golan now would they? nah! just push those borders out an eensy weensy bit more.

    • american presidents have carried out too many atrocities to mention. but to imagine a museum on the national mall (ok, one block off) hosting an exhibit essentially accusing an american president of genocide for not intervening enough in syria, failing their regime change agenda, practically inconceivable. the chutzpah! the holocaust museum was smart to drop this.

    • thanks misterioso. yeah, netanyahu's repeated efforts to skewer the russia/US syria negotiations were met with deaf ears. it was an impossible demand (to demand removal of iran, or any syrian ally for that matter).

      i can hear the squeals of the neocons all over the internet this morning. the liberation of deir ezzor has clearly tipped the scales. bill kristol linked to this tablet story today pissed the holocaust museum was dropping some "study" of obama being responsible for genocide in syria because he didn't succumb to their pressure to bomb assad in retaliation for their insistence assad gassed his own people. remember goldberg's 'obama doctrine' -- "the day the feckless Barack Obama brought to a premature end America’s reign as the world’s sole indispensable superpower" bla bla bla. anyway, check out: "HOLOCAUST MUSEUM PULLS STUDY ABSOLVING OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FOR INACTION IN FACE OF SYRIAN GENOCIDE -- Abrupt decision comes in wake of sharp rebukes, bafflement, and concern about politicization of Shoah memory"

      http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/244567/holocaust-museum-pulls-study-absolving-obama-administration-for-inaction-in-face-of-syrian-genocide

      A major United States Holocaust Memorial Museum study of the Obama Administration’s Syria policy was put on hold last night after portions of the study given to Tablet were greeted with shock and harsh criticism by prominent Jewish communal leaders and thinkers.

      According to a publicity email sent by the Museum, the study was set to be launched at an event at the US Institute for Peace in Washington, D.C., on September 11 and was overseen by a former US intelligence and national security official under Obama, Cameron Hudson, now director of the Simon-Skjodt Center for the Prevention of Genocide. The paper argued that “a variety of factors, which were more or less fixed, made it very difficult from the beginning for the US government to take effective action to prevent atrocities in Syria, even compared with other challenging policy contexts.” Using computational modeling and game theory methods, as well as interviews with experts and policymakers, the report asserted that greater support for the anti-Assad rebels and US strikes on the Assad regime after the August 2013 Ghouta chemical weapons attack would not have reduced atrocities in the country, and might conceivably have contributed to them.

      The intervention of the Holocaust Museum in a hot-button political dispute—and the apparent excuse of official US government inaction in the face of large-scale mass murder, complete with the gassing of civilians and government-run crematoria—alarmed many Jewish communal figures.

      the horror... "jewish communal figures"? ah. them. pushing what obama termed "the washington playbook" https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/.

    • what kind of price aloeste? are you accusing reform jews of practicing "basterdized" judaism and their very presence "desecrates" your holy sites and scrolls? is that what you are saying?

  • Going veg
  • Israelis detain Palestinian wedding singer for song glorifying man charged with killing settlers
    • it’s one of those things where, if you have to ask what it is, you’ll never know.

      i'm like -- gasp uh o .. another jack attack. we're so scared and defenseless.

  • Gideon Levy calls out Israel's fundamental, racist religion: Zionism
  • Are you an auto-anti-Semite? Take this simple test
  • Changing the narrative, from BDS to antifa
    • the American prescription to the Holocaust in the 50’s was: shut up.

      can you source this? an example of someone representing "the American prescription" saying or implying "shut up"?

      What to teach today is totally different question than what to teach in 67.

      i was in high school in california in 67, we learned about the holocaust but we sure didn't learn about our countries history genociding native americans. as far as i know, that genocide is still not officially recognized. which genocide do you think is more relevant to american history?

      obviously such a catastrophe begs for redemption and thus the idea: from the abyss of auschwitz to the apex of jewish sovereignty in jerusalem.

      didn't obama get royally chewed out for connecting the holocaust with the founding of the state?

      to the history teacher in 67, who was not looking for an answer, but merely looking at the facts: there was a very seriously stunning fact.

      you've lost me here. what "answer" what "seriously stunning fact" should the teacher in 67 have taught? what lesson should every jewish child, and every american child learn, that they could not learn in 67?

      a history of such an extreme type requires an answer and in fact there is no answer: neither the “melting pot” of america, nor the permanent war of Israel is an adequate answer to auschwitz

      what is it you want?

    • 5:25

      norm: the irony is that the nazi holocaust has now become the main ideological weapon for launching wars of aggression. everytime you want ot launch a war of aggression, drag in a nazi holocaust. it’s the suffering then used as another pretext or excuse to humiliate degrade and torture the palestinians. that’s the problem, the suffering comes as a package; it then comes

      “here is the suffering, now we blow up your house. here is the suffering, now we take your land. here is the suffering, now we shoot artillery shells at your villages."

      it’s a package deal with israel and its american supporters. it’s not just suffering, it’s suffering which is then wrapped in a club, and the club is then used to break the skulls of the palestinians.

      that’s the problem. it’s not being used to educate people.it’s not being used to enlighten people, it’s not being used to make people more moral.

      interviewer: but it can be.

      norm: but it’s not. it’s not! that’s the whole point. of course it can be but it isn’t.

    • What year should Jews have figured out how to deemphasize teaching the Holocaust- 1946? 1952? 1961? The proposal is preposterous.

      not sure "deemphasizing" is the point. whereas, how it's emphasized and the way it is taught (ie i recall reading it's now being taught in kindergarten in israel) could be construed as brainwashing. the movie "defamation" is one potent example of that. here's another:

      "the methods the Jewish Agency used to teach the Shoah in the former Soviet Union in the 1990s"

      http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.808994

      Weinstein-Gross stresses that the Holocaust Day events were part of a sequence of powerful experiences the children encountered at the Jewish Agency camps, and that both as a camper and counselor they seemed natural to her.

      “Today, in retrospect, I wouldn’t want my daughter to have an experience like that,” she reflects. “I think it’s too strong and it’s very manipulative. And in general, as an adult, I don’t think it’s necessary to build our Zionist identity on the basis of the Holocaust.

      Kupchik recalls that some of the campers – children of mixed families – wore crosses, which the counselors made them remove. “Those children didn’t distinguish between Christian culture and their Jewish father or mother. For them it was mixed – Christianity was a cultural thing for them. When I became a counselor that was an issue about which there were heated discussions in the counselors’ room – from whom had crosses been removed? How many were removed?

    • is there any historical event you feel is key to understanding American history

      i don't think there is any one key historical event although there were many key events. to understanding our history of the rich consuming the poor, i think a key pivotal event would be Santa Clara v. Southern Pacific.

    • a kind of a brand of pro-Israel street fighting lobby groups painted in lefty colors.

      that sounds horrid bandolero. i have not heard of anything like this here but i will sure be on the outlook. thanks.

    • bandolero, i have never heard of any pro israel antifa groups in the US, however, in germany: https://kropotkindersurprise.tumblr.com/post/116960531094/ive-noticed-some-antifa-support-palestine-and

      Anonymous asked:
      I've noticed some Antifa support Palestine and some Antifa support Israel. What are your thoughts on the situation?????

      While opinions vary between antifa groups and between antifa members, I am very confident in saying that the vast majority of antifa are against the murderous, racist apartheids-regime in Israel, and support Palestine.

      I believe you may be thinking of a pretty obscure part of the German ‘left-wing’ (or that’s what they consider themselves at least) who count themselves as antifa, called AntiDeutsche, or Anti-Germans in English.

      They seem to be a result of German guilt over the second world war, the holocaust and nazism. While I can kind of see where they came from they are a bizarre confusing mishmash of ideology. They kind of started around the time people were starting to think of unifying East and West Germany again, when they used the slogan “Nie wieder Germany”, or something like “Never again Germany”. They are very anti-Germany, and very pro-Israel and pro-America.

      Their uncritical support of Israel obviously comes as a kind of absolutist response to the holocaust, and their support for America seems to come from the role the USA played in destroying Nazi Germany. Here are some of their banners and slogans:
      image
      image

  • Teenage girls in Gaza lament a 'double siege'
    • Israelis moved to the West Bank of their own accord.

      gov offers them uber generous loans to move to the settlements. israel bribes them to come live there, subsidizes them without a doubt.

    • jack, is everything an opportunity for you to talk about jews? even an article about young gaza girls and for you it's all about jews. just listen why don't you.

    • so sweet to hear from you bintbiba

      misterioso, me too, and yes i know. i am very worried about one right now, a very good friend of mine...

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