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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
@ David Samel: Indeed, or to have expelled the indigenous people.
susan1 said the usual denial of the right of free speech for those that are pro- Israel
If you read that from a very easy to understand explanation from Mark Ratner then you are turning the truth on it's head or upside down which ironically which is also a point Mark Ratner makes in the video.
Palestinians, real semites, are not even playing the semite card and never have. They are not twisting laws or statutes for their cause.
Irrationality is a way of life amongst the zionist cult.
"Bibi" means "my sewage" in Hebrew.
Mr. Lewis understood that carving any Palestinian state out of historic Palestine (25% of the original Palestine, 75% being Jordan) is difficult
Any chance you could supply a source for that "fact"? It's occupier and usurper "facts" which are simply nothing of the sort.
"As Jews around the world commemorate freedom from slavery, 5 million Palestinians held by Israel under closure due to the passover holiday." -- Miko Peled.
I cannot believe Obama is oblivious to what is going on.
Thanks Hostage. I swear they are sent to annoy.
"same people" is debatable because there is no literature to prove the Romans , who were not in the habit of ethnic cleansing, cleansed anyone out. But the rest of your comment is a good one.
@ Mondonut: The General Assembly affirmed the NATIVE PALESTINIAN right of return 135 or more times. They’re binding and won’t change.
Prof Shlomo Sand - HOLY LAND OR HOMELAND:
In the Hebrew Bible the geographic area roughly corresponding to the land of Palestine (between the River Jordan & the Mediterranean Sea) is mostly called the “land of Canaan.” The area “never served as a homeland for the ‘children of Israel,’ & for this reason, among others, they never refer to it as ‘the Land of Israel.’” Most Israelis, Prof Sand argues, are not aware that the term is not found in Hebrew Bible “in its inclusive meaning” of a wide geographic area.
Shlomo Sand explains it was a “holy land” rather than a “homeland”. Most Jews did not seek to live there. Philo of Alexandria, a 1st Ce Jewish philosopher, lived in Egypt — right next to Palestine. He could have moved to Jerusalem, since both regions were under Roman rule — but instead, like most people, he chose to live & die in his original homeland . Eretz Israel was traditionally considered by mainstream Judaism to be so holy the devout were positively forbidden to move there. Even pilgrimage was a rare, & later phenomenon. Between the years 134 and 1099, “we know of no attempts by the followers of rabbinical Judaism to make pilgrimages to the holy city” of Jerusalem.
Mondonut: it's international law and it's binding. It's not negotiable.
@ Oleg: Misleading native English speaking readers? I doubt it. One sure does project.
I will buy it for the title and cover alone. Stunning
FACT SHEET: The Killing of Rachel Corrie: Ten Years Later
IMEU, Mar 15, 2013
link to imeu.net
Fantastic! Dr Phelps was rightfully & honorably dragged through the mud!
Mahmoud Al-Titi was killed with an internationally prohibited lead dumdum round that fragments inside the body. Your US tax dollars at work paid by the United States of America.
Another long term hunger striker (I think he has been on hunger strike longer than Samer) Ayman Sharawna's nephew, Ismael, was arrested yesterday 15/03/2013.
Fran is amazing. What a charming sweet lady.
Israel studies professor: 1948 really was ethnic cleansing, not genocide
By Jonathan Kalmus, March 14, 2013
One of the UK’s leading academics says supporters of Israel need to accept historical facts that Israel committed “ethnic cleansing” in 1948 — and be clear that there is no contradiction between this and their support of Israel.
Oxford’s first professor of Israel studies, Derek Penslar, made the comments to the JC following a well-attended lecture at Manchester University’s Centre for Jewish Studies. The chair was made possible in 2011 through a £3 million endowment from the Stanley and Zea Lewis Foundation.
Professor Penslar said pro-Israelis needed to catch up with the past 30 years of academic scholarship that has accepted the “vast bulk of findings” by Zionist revisionist historians such as Benny Morris and Ilan Pappe about Israel’s actions in 1948.
He said: “What happened to the Palestinians, the Naqba, was not a genocide. It was horrible, but it was not a genocide. Genocide means that you wipe out a people. It wasn’t a genocide. It was ethnic cleansing.”
In his lecture, Professor Penslar made clear that there was no evidence to accept the conclusions of some who claimed that early Zionist leaders had a policy or programme of forced expulsions of Palestinians.
But, the professor said afterwards, people like him “could not lie about ethnic cleansing because of some concern that some extremist is going to try to use my words, to back up a point of view that he or she holds anyway.
“So people are refusing to believe [what happened], not because it’s not true, but even if it is true they do not want to distribute it. What I’m saying is that scholars have an obligation to tell the truth”.
link to thejc.com
Driven into the sea....Diehard South African apartheid supporters claimed the same thing. The ANC also had an utterly charming slogan "One Settler, One Bullet". All white South Africans were considered "settlers" even though their earliest presence there went back to mid 17th century. Diehards never thought that their privileged racist supremacist surreal world would fall apart. Bit like RJL above.
Thanks American I did not see that. Great info.
Senator Giuliano Amato - who was an Italian presidential candidate - said on his weekly TV program on Italian state TV back in January 2013 his prediction on how Palestine would and should evolve in the future started off by offering a comparison by what happened in South Africa - i.e. eventually that conflict in South Africa came to an end when the white ruling class realized it was a mere minority and could no longer be sustained when they would be fighting an endless war against the black majority and there was no other solution but to have a shared coexistence & political governance. “Israel would soon have to accept this very same solution. Israel has made it impossible to have a 2 state solution as illegal settlers have occupied and taken over a vast part of the land assigned to the Palestinian people for a future separate state. As Jews are a minority they would have to accept the solution in which the Palestinian population would clearly represent the majority with all the political consequence this implies. What I hope is for a Palestinian leader a charismatic figure such as Nelson Mandela able to take power the same way Nelson Mandela did”, he said.
@gildag: "They did not threaten to wipe the whites out": 'One settler, one bullet' springs to mind and the one you zios seem to use a lot too, viz "drive us into the sea", so a very apt analogy indeed.
Also, European Jews do not originate from the Levant.
In a John Hopkins study published Dec 14th 2012, the Israeli geneticist Eran Elhaik explains that, among the various groups of European & non-European Jews, there are no blood or family connections: "The various groups of Jews in the world today do not share a common genetic origin. We are talking here about groups that are very heterogeneous & which are connected solely by religion." The bottom line, he claims, is that the "genome of European Jews is a mosaic of ancient peoples and its origin is largely Khazar."
Even IF that is a fact America is not the world. I sometimes wonder if these polls are put out to try delude the Zionists into a false sense of security. Like a house of cards it can come down tumbling.
@ hophmi: I would ask you how you have a mandate to speak for them. I would also remind you that Iraq and Egypt have not ethnically cleansed any Christians out nor do any of them await a Right of Return to their homes and homeland. You may also be interested to learn that thousands of Iraqi Muslims are converting to Christianity.
As for the Copts I subscribe to the CYC channel on YT and they sure do not portray a picture you have dreamed up in your propaganda pieces.
But what does it actually say Norman F?
Zionism is completely contradictory to Judaism. Judaism is subservience to the Almighty, been practiced for thousands of years a Covenant with God to be subservient to Him and Zionism is a relatively new movement, a hijacking of a religion into a nationalistic political movement.
At the destruction of the Temple 2000 years ago Jews were given an edict, a prophecy from Solomon that they are not to attempt to recreate their sovereignty - it was/is expressly forbidden. Jews wait for the day when God will make a miracle and they will automatically serve Him in harmony then they won’t have to convince an atheist that there Is a God everybody will recognize there is a God and they will serve Him. Prior to that event they are expressly forbidden to make any attempt of Jewish nationalism or sovereignty.
That was respected & upheld by Jews throughout the trials & tribulations of the Inquisition, the Crusades & every time period when they could have easily bought land they never did it because they understood that was against the will of the Almighty & what it means to be a Jew.
When the concept of Zionism was developed the Jewish Rabbinical authorities said that it was expressly forbidden for Jews to create a state as to do so goes against the will of God and is not subservience to God , it’s a nationalism awa as its actions when creating a state the concept of stealing from a people or killing is all forbidden according to the Torah so in every facet Zionism is a rebellion against the command of God.
It also says in the Torah if you rebel against God it will bring catastrophic results and Zionism has brought catastrophic results on its followers.
You speak as if the people you uprooted and dispossessed who languish in refugee camps don't even exist. It's really repulsive behavior and you do not impress any one with a soul.
@hophmi: I would look closer to home at the persecution of Christians before you judge others for your propaganda purposes if I were you.
So the British granted them independence did they? Or who actually gave them independence? Unilaterally declaring yourself into existence is hardly being given independence.
Norman F: Prof Shlomo Sand makes a far more reasoned argument:
Shlomo Sand: "You know Zionism is somewhere I can say is a modern movement a very anti Jewish movement because Judaism could not accept a nation state that could be called Jewish state then Judaism is not Zionism and Zionism is not Judaism and by the way all the establishment of Judaism at the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century were anti Zionist it was clear to them until 2nd WW”.
Prof Shlomo Sand On the ‘Romans exiled Jews from Palestine’: “This is a myth, a lie because there is not even one book that speaks of the exile by the Romans the Jews are mostly converts and were not expelled from Palestine and they didn’t want to go to Palestine it was a very important place for them as a holy place but Mecca is also a very holy place for Muslims and the Ganges is a very important place for the Hindus. The promised land was not a homeland for the Jew”
@ Oleg please peruse the graph in this article:
link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Indeed Inanna. My Palestinian friend inside what is Israel has a doctor who is a Jewish Palestinian and he refuses to call himself Israeli. He calls himself Palestinian.
Oh dear. 7.3 million awaiting a Right of Return. Not looking good.
Yisrael Medad on Jerusalem Post blog translated the song here:
link to blogs.jpost.com
When was that gilad because the word ‘Jew’ is only a relatively recently used word, having been first employed in the 1750’s in England, as the J sound was just being introduced into England from France. It was first seen written down in Sheridan’s play, “The Rivals,” in the year 1775.
Sounds like this Ali chap was having a time of the month episode. There was nothing anti semitic in her tweet. In fact jewsnotzionists and jewsagainstzionism websites say exactly the same.
Exactly. Smearing human rights advocates.
Annie, do you have any idea if the transcripts of the speeches have been uploaded onto the net?
Dennis Banks: Palestinian Suffering in Occupation Recalls Plight of Native Americans
link to youtube.com
Just for the record I did reply but that comment did not pass moderation. the reply had something to do with who created Hamas.
Thanks Alex/MW for providing the live link for this tribunal. Been most informative.
“Hamas was also established under Israel's aegis and with its encouragement." Dr Reuven Pedatzur - a senior lecturer at the Strategic Studies Program, Tel Aviv University,16 August 2004.
Without Zionist Israel there would not have been Hamas. Without Zionist Israel there would be no siege on Gaza and no need for a resistance, however meek it is.
giladg, still trying to put lipstick on a pig, would not live one day in a Gazan's shoes, just in a home he possibly lives in that once belonged to a Palestinian who was ethnically cleansed out to Gaza (most Gazans were originally from what is now western Israel).
Fringe lunatic right wing racist supremacist ideologies are not "mainstream" unless the world has morphed into something quite sinister. Clue being in fringe lunatic. This mandate you feel you have to speak for all and sundry is really quite bizarre.
Thanks Alex. ADL/AIPAC et al must be having full body kvetch seizures right now. The world has awoken from it's slumber.
"Israel" consists of some 22,000 sq km of land. Only about 1,500 sq km (some 6% of present-day “Israel”) was bought by the Jews and as many commentators have previously stated on other threads buying up property does not equate to taking over the whole country. I would hazard a guess Jews probably own that much percentage of American land - or even more.
Sorry but when was it ever legitimate?
Yuli, a Ukranian, himself lives on an illegal settlement in the WB. I think we can safely assume he is one of these "crazies" he refers to.
Israeli Cabinet Minister (for Propaganda) Yuli Edelstein dismissed the vandalism as the work of “a few crazies” .
Jewish Man opens fire in Eilat hotel; 1 dead
The gunman was identified only as a 23-year-old Jewish man from New York City, who arrived in Israel as part of the “Oranim” Israeli-American job exchange project. The police confirmed that the gunman was fired from his job on Thursday.
link to theuglytruth.wordpress.com
Henry Siegman: ‘The end of Israel is near’
In a September 24 interview with Forward, Henry Siegman said: “If Israel believes that in this part of the world it can permanently deprive millions of Palestinians of their rights, that is absurd. Israel is signing its own death warrants,” he said, calling the policy of Netanyahu’s government “suicidal”.
link to rehmat1.com
Sassan: Most of Gaza’s residents are refugee families who were forcibly pushed out by Zionist terrorist gangs during 1947-49 and forced into a concentration camp 24 miles by 7, in which non-Jews, who originally made up over 70 % of the inhabitants, were expelled. In violation of international law, they have been prohibited from returning to their homes & have lived under crippling Israeli occupation for decades. Palestinian land is continually confiscated by Israel for Jewish-only use.
Now how is Hamas to blame for that?
Precisely , not enough European Jews answered the zionist call so they looked east to boost the numbers. Not that they were totally accepted on arrival shoved into camps and deloused. Not to mention the racial abuse.
Kook
In Focus: Piracy of the Palestinian history
link to youtube.com
Right back at ya. Jews are a religion not an ethnicity but Palestinians are Palestinians. Not one so called "Israeli Arab" calls themselves "an Israeli". In all the documentaries I have seen the Palestinians say they had no choice in becoming "Israeli" - which would be common sense anyway. I wish you oppressors would stop claiming to have a mandate to speak for everyone from Christians to the entire world. The arrogance of you imposters in Palestine is something quite alarming.
Not even top 1000 probably. And most non Jewish tourists go on pilgrimages like they have always done through the centuries long before Zionist Israel self declared itself in Palestine.
You heap praise on a clinically insane class clown, blame Hamas for the plight of the Palestinians in Gaza concentration camp & now a bit of praise for TA. All the traits of being an Hasbara bot.
Nothing justifies you being in Palestine at the native Palestinians expense and I will never read a propagandist's link - ie from an impostor perspective. Why waste my time in doing that, time I will never get back.
Proudzionut666: Jaffa was the most advanced city in Palestine with its banking, fishing, manufacturing, & agriculture industries. All Arabic publications & newspapers were published in Jaffa. Thus the Zionists targeted Jaffa in order to destroy the Palestinian “propaganda” arm. May 23 1948, the so-called Israeli War Of Independence broke out. Only 10 days after the outbreak, the majority of Jaffa’s Arab population ,at least 70k, were ethnically cleansed. Haifa’s Arab population, numbering at least 35k, suffered the same fate.
You sound like the white apartheid South Africans who would say they lived in 1st world cities and the natives lived in the 3rd world. Doesn't cut it. Palestinian culture is different to European culture, in fact is more rich and diverse, and what's more their architecture fits in with the countryside/landscape whereas Zionist structures do not fit in, are completely ugly and work against the whole nature of the region. Zionist sense of aesthetics is absolute madness.
Herzl did not even say it had to be in Palestine though. It could have been anywhere.
Ilan Pappe lecture on his new book "The Forgotten Palestinians" in Sydney, Australia:
link to youtube.com
Victim of Jewish Terrorism
interview with Ami Ortiz who in March 2008 was the victim of a bomb placed at his home by a Jewish terrorist who hated his family because they are Messianic Jews.
link to youtube.com
To anyone rational he looked like a class clown.
NYT actually called him "professorial". Lol.
Rick Gladstone and David Sanger wrote :
Mahmoud Abbas asks UN General Assembly to recognize Palestine as 'non-member state'
Extract:
Unsure if this video of rabbis meeting Iranian President in NYC has been posted here yet:
link to youtube.com
Proudzio: From jon's link:
"It is likely that Shechem was one of the oldest settlements in Canaan. The earliest written record comes from an inscription on the Stele of Khu-Sebek who was a noble in the court of Sesotris III (c. 1880-1840 BC). It reads: "his majesty reached a foreign country of which the name was skmm [Shechem]. Then skmm fell, together with the wretched Retunu [an Egyptian name for the inhabitants of Syro-Palestine]." An Egyptian execration text (a clay tablet on which curses are inscribed and then ceremonially broken) dating from the mid nineteenth century refers to one Ibish-hadad of Shechem, indicating that Shechem was an important centre of resistance against Egyptian rule (Toombs, 1992: 1179)."
So nada to do with the Israelites. It's history goes back way before they INVADED.
I'm really concerned about him having the bomb !
"Israel" could not survive were it not for denying Palestinians access to water in the OT. The survival of the oppressed Palestinians and how they get about their daily lives for 64 years is really something to be admired. I am in awe of their patience and resilience. Thanks for sharing (and caring).
@ mondonut: Well sane people want what is all theirs which is their right so tough. Criminals do not get to decide the fate of their victims.
Indeed.
link to 1001inventions.com
Hilarious Photoshopped pic:
link to facebook.com
They believe that Palestine belongs to them because of some myths they misinterpreted so what ya expect? A sane leader?
The man is not only insane he has zero pride in how he comes across. Should never have given up his day job of being a furniture salesman.
She should not throw stones at glass houses.
Sounds like one of their Brainstorming sessions with PR companies. Talk about false advertising! A defending the indefensible product.
"Human rights"? Is she that sassan character in the flesh? I would have retorted "but what about "basic human rights" for the oppressed Palestinians?!" and watched her jaw hit the floor.
Great comment pabelmont
Thanks for that. If the Sinai is so under populated maybe that's where the zionists should be moved to.
"By his own admission Ben-Gurion was irreligious, even atheistic as a youth."
link to vision.org
Amen Sherry.
Yeah but this is just rubbing salt in the wounds of a people the usurping zionists savagely stole the land from and oppress as we speak. It's out of order.
Annie he also has not graced us with his presence (read: hasbara propaganda) for a month and a half and shows up just to say that. Pitiful really.
I am all for rational freedom of expression but fringe lunatic bigotry aimed to provoke hatred and intolerance I am not. By free speech of course sassan means the latter. I notice in all his comments not once does he criticize zionism. Obvious who sent this messenger.
Blaine, I have seen many comments calling for a full boycott of "Israel" on here.
Or vanadalism. Lol