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  • White House sells Quartet statement on negotiations as 'a major accomplishment in Israel's favor'
    • Schmuel, do you object to what Atzmon says, or that he says it in public?

    • Schmuel, here's what Friedman said, in context:

      "The crumbling of key pillars of Israel’s security — the peace with Egypt, the stability of Syria and the friendship of Turkey and Jordan — coupled with the most diplomatically inept and strategically incompetent [I would put 'U.S.' here -- ed] government in Israel’s history have put Israel in a very dangerous situation.

      This has also left the U.S. government fed up with Israel’s leadership but a hostage to its ineptitude, because the powerful pro-Israel lobby in an election season can force the administration to defend Israel at the U.N., even when it knows Israel is pursuing policies not in its own interest or America’s."

      So you are technically correct, but readers here who have read W & M's The Israel Lobby know that their book details how "the lobby" is actually a network of Establishment Jewish Israel First organizations, some of whom they name additional to the umbrella orchestra AIPAC, plus complicit media. Nobody who read the book comes away with the notion of a single Jewish organization that alone lobbies in behalf Israel; it's a matrix of lobbies, sometimes coordinating, sometimes not so much. So why do you contest the fairness of refering to"Jewish lobbies?"

    • Bibi shorthand: "Let me piss on your head and all the heads of your people and tell you and the world its raining peace."

    • I don't think Bibi or the US Congress ever got Rabkin's memo, nor did, it almost goes with saying, AIPAC & the Establishment Jewish community in the USA. BTW, Atzmon said the same thing in The Wandering Who about Zionism--and much more succinctly. It's arguable that his book over all could have been less inflamatory, but there's a lot of very realistic gems in it, actually supported by much more intensive scholarship beyond what his few footnotes suggest. Then again, it's more like an extended essay than a scholastic tome. I think the main point of his book is that until Jews think of being human first, rather than second, after being a Jew, it might help everybody. That's why he starts off the book with the question: What does it mean to identify the self as a Jewish self first?

    • I read that some Jewish Establishment organizations dissed the quartet's statement because it inflicted a timetable on Israel. So they don't want any substance (terms of reference) or process (timetable) inflicted on Israel. They might OK a Mike Myers coffee klutch, "Talk amongst yourselves!" (old SNL repeated sketch)

    • I agree, pabelmount. It is an index to Bibi & his friends that they gave Obama the finger to his offer of 20 F-35s inter alia, in addition to the usual foreign aid, the biggest US chunk of it annually, when all Obama asked for was a 3 month moratorium on settlement building, and Obama added that would be the only time he would mention settlements to Israel! Israel does not even see that Uncle Sam is doing them another a big favor already by not conditioning all foreign aid and UN vetos in behalf Israel on Israel's total withdrawing of ALL settlements. I can see future Israel demanding POTUS to pressure Jordan to accept all Palestinians as exercising their ROT.

    • Yeah, Smedley laid it out on the table but Dick & Jane never bothered to dine there. Instead they went to see Paul Newman play a Jewish colonialist, and followed up later with a night watching Fiddler On The Roof. Both good shows, as far as they went, but therein lay the rub. By now even Dick & Jane feel a bit sore from the rubbing.

    • So, does anyone have a report revealing how the UNGA reacted to Obama's speech so obviously parroting Bibi's POV?

    • The hundreds of Holocaust museums in USA and around the world are Zionist churches. AIPAC is their Vatican state?

    • Hard to pin down the price. Last thing I read was $130 million plus $20 million for engine=$150 million each x 20=

    • You are correct, DBG. My serious mistake. An official at the JSF program office said Lockheed's $65 million price tag claim is "disingenuous" because it does not include the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine that powers the jet. So Obama jumped at the chance to give Israel 20 @ $65 million each plus cost of said engine--anybody, how much is that (which Bibi flatly rejected)?

    • I agree, Real Jew. For Israelis, Iran is Nazi Germany despite utter absurdity of this faith in face of objective reality. Question is, how long will US MSM be able to keep reality from American masses? Here's a summary of awakening ("emerging US Spring?") how US blank check 2 Israel is not in US interest (except 4 US elite)--growing # of average Americans know it despite press muzzle:

      The memo has not reached Obama/Beiden or any of the Republican contenders, who claim there's no "sky" (Beiden, same guy dissed by Bibi when he told Bibi Israel was harming US interests) or "space"
      (all contenders @ Orlando except Ron Paul) between US and Israel.

    • As a practical matter the only one who has enough leverage to encourage Israel towards a just and lasting peace is the USA--by virtue of asking anyone educated in just how much aid (both direct and indirect) we have given, and continue to give to Israel.

      Nothing good will happen until lots of everyday Americans have a real grasp of what Israel does, and does with just how much of our tax cash. It's just possible the escalating presidential debates about Israel a la the Weiner empty seat make more real details go national, so much so that
      even AIPAC's lacky US MSM starts really giving unbiased data to Joe & Jane Public.

    • Charon, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but don't you think the Old Testament is soaked with what may reasonably now be characterized as Fascism and its dirty deeds, and has been so characterized by some scholars? Blood and soil ideology, taking "living space" and violently getting rid of the locals is a biblical leitmotif. Of course back then nobody was wearing belt buckles embossed with "Gott Mit Uns."

      Also there are two bipolar versions of what being "chosen" means. The test of virtue is power.

    • eee,

      In America, when we sit down to share an uncut pizza, nobody takes out his or her own knife and starts boorishly and greedily cutting off pizza and gobbling it up before or after the person designated to cut the pizza commences cutting, and either distributing the pizza as pieces are cut off, or until all the slices are cut for everyone at the table to take a slice. Must be different in Israel; they must like recipes for a food fight over there.

      Also, one can be bothered as hell about someone is doing right in front of you, but if you are small and they are big, prudence may dictate you try to cautiously negotiate with the bully. You know, like the Jews did in Germany once upon a time in the West?

      eee, you really do think just like a Nazi back in the day with your version of "common sense," belittling the Palestinians for not negotiating faster while they are being robbed and bullied about by Israel.

    • Yes, Obama, inter alia, promised Bibi 20 free state-of-the-art F-35s at $3 million apiece (R & D costs courtesy of USA taxpayers & selected NATO taxpayers). Obama definitely not Ike:

      That was around the time Bibi dissed Beiden for briefly bringing up the subject of settlements and Americans soldiers at risk.

    • Bibi blared he told Abbas he was ready to sit down right there at the UN & start negotiating; he told Obama's re-recruited Dennis Ross contingent of "Israel's lawyers" that "no conditions" meant no terms of reference. It's like the big neighborhood bully lout, with his boot on the little kid's face, looked up at Uncle Sam the cop, saying, "I'm ready to talk but the little bugger just won't agree--he keeps babbling about laws & whining I stole his bike and my family is trespassing--can you believe it? It's driving me crazy! What a crock!" Obama is suppose to be Officer Friendly in the neighborhood. "Lemme know if the little brat bites you," he says, and walks off, shooting the bully a sincere look.

  • Obama's impossible dilemma--and ours
    • But, annie, Obama is not Ike, so how will congress be made accountable where the sitting POTUS doesn't speak over the top of congress to the American public?

    • Sin Nombre, remember when Kissinger convinced the Jew-hating Nixon that he'd better pull Israel's tukas out of the fire in '73 because Israel was threatening to use its nukes (and Israel had put nuke set-up machinery on display)?

      Nixon gave Israel double the military hardware & supplies it was asking for--even depriving US frontline units of it to do so. In return, US got the Arab Oil Embargo--& long lines at the gas pumps across the nation.

      Methinks next time the US will get a much worse deal.

    • I don't know, Taxi, but Armaggadon is coming--it's just not gonna be the scenario the Christian fundies imagine.

    • So how many families basically run the USA, 400? I'm sure all those labor union and municipal pension funds in the USA will be happy to learn nobody needs Israeli bonds, especially in view of USA's current debt crisis; looks like more foreigners are deciding about those recently devalued US federal bonds too. USA doesn't have a firewall either; Obama has not reinstated the "chinese" wall between traditional commercial banking and casino investment banking either. It doesn't help to know the neocon most responsible for taking us to war on Iraq, the Israel Firster Paul Wolfowitz, was rewarded with the Presidency of the World Bank--when he had absolutely no credentials for that job.

      Seems to be a real pattern in this new AIPAC America that we find more and more people in top government slots that have no credentials to be there in the first place.

    • RE: "... can Israel be stopped before Jewish money shifts from Wall St. to the Chinese banking sector?"

      Exactly the right historic question. I'm sure both Israel and the Chinese regime are counting beads on their math machines. All those Israel Firsters embedded in our government' s security and military apparatus are busy cramming as many US defense secrets into their backpacks as possible to use as bargaining chips with China. (I think Russia learned that lesson; anyway its not the USSR anymore & immigration to Israel is not what it used to be in early '90.)

    • If criticism of Israel's conduct and ideology is just simplistic sloganeering, hophmi, and the world favors what Israel has been doing, wouldn't that be reflected in the line up of votes at the UN re the many UN resolutions directly concerning Israel? And ditto re the settlement issue accountability bid Obama alone vetoed? And take a vote count of how few nations stood with the US with its other 42 vetoes dismissing Israel accountability under international law. And have you looked at the few nations that support Israel/US stance on the current Palestinians bid for recognition? Oh, that's right, the UN is anti-semitic and picks on Israel--as it did when it gave Israel legitimacy (on condition subsequent, which Israel has not honored to this day.

    • Well, take a gander at the annual survey of Jewish American opinion regarding your subject matter. It appears they will vote mostly for either Obama or Romney; they are mostly Democrats or Independents. They hate Arabs, and would, I surmise mostly support Israel/US bombing of Iran. They think US is losing in Iraq & Afghanistan. They are a key swing vote in key states. They most significantly fund the Democratic Party, and are pretty big funders of the Republican Party too--most significantly, most of the really big moneybags are Israel Firsters. Read the poll results, and what do you get out of them?

      Perry doing the Hora without a torah? Both Obama & all Republican candidates except Ron Paul have been doing this with their lips at every
      GOP debate to date.

      JFK was good at using the POTUS pulpit. Obama could dust off his Cairo Speech & speak over the heads of the PTB directly to the American people, laying out the facts regarding where our Israel First agenda has been taking us. But we know JFK, and Obama is no JFK (or Roosevelt, or Reagan).

  • Abbas at the United Nations a game changer? Maybe.
    • Blankfort, I notice that too and was also disappointed in Bennis's Article as to her "for domestic political reasons." I've noticed this line has been happening fairly often lately. It reminds me of how the very specific findings of the 9/11 Commission as to motivation of the attackers (US rubber-stamping of Isael was the biggie, followed by US bases in SA) was reduced to the banal abstraction that foreign policy always has some bad blowback. (I forget the exact substituted abstract words for the Commission's conclusion for public consumption.)

    • I apologize for my typos and missing letters, but I hope all get my drift.

    • longliveisrael, for a Jew you don't make logical sense. So the Palestinians have defined themselves as such in juxtaposition to Jewish Israelis, so what? There was no need to do so so clearly before the Jewish settler came from Europe because prior there to Jews and Arabs celebrated each others holidays, were very tolerant of each other.

      How have the Jews defined themselves? By distinguishing themselves from the balance of humanity, whom they labeled goyim thousands of years ago. And they preceded to write separate those two classes in terms of justifying treating them differently, despite the belief that all of mankind was made in the Creator's image.

      The goys didn't name themselves goys. To them ,back in antiquity, there were a wide variety of tribes, and when a power was big enough, as in Rome, where Rome had the power and control, Roman citizenship was the over-riding identity or not as it is in the USA today.

      It's not uncommon in Jewish analysis to conclude that there would be no Jews if not for anti-semitism. Indeed, that Zionism, for example, can not exist without it. Is it so hard to use the same logic to conclude that Palestinians would never have identified themselves as such without Zionism as practiced on them?

      I don't agree completely. Jews worked to distinguish themselves from gentiles or goys long before The Holocaust. And they did so even when assimilation was a real option, and do so now.

      I think the biggest fear establishment Jew have is that they actually are no different than Gentiles. They want to have their cake and eat it too: "I'm just like you, a person among persons, a nation among nations." This wish wars inside such Jews with "I'm a Jew, I'm special, unique. Maybe I'm only 10 better than you because I'm a Jew."

      For such Jews s the fear of a pogrom or Shoah around the corner more powerful than the fear of assimilation?

    • Back to the UN vote on recognition of Palestinian statehood. You may be interested in some facts you may not know regarding how UN recognition of Israel seat came about--some things change, yet remain the same. Or do they?

    • US government employees know their government violates the Arms Control Act regarding Israel on a regular basis. But at the top objections are squelched.

    • Obama caught a lot of flack from the Jewish Establishment for mentioning settlements in pubic; his handlers convinced him he needed to show he really loves Israel or else. Nothing's change since Truman.

    • Atzmon says this is just the endlessly repeated Book Of Esther again. New players take the same old roles, or they are assigned them. A potboiler novel with a very long life, eh?

    • I agree with Dan Crowther that the biggest danger for Zionists is that the American people will actually become informed about the history of the Israeli state, the tremendous injustice done to the indigenous people with the aid of US tax dollars and loss of prestige. The resulting great lack of proportion is severe and will registered with even a moron. The American Israel First press may even have to talk about the Nakba and Abbas's characterizaion of it as "on-going" in his speech at the UN for statehood. Why?

      Because the Republicans are making Israel a key campaign sound bite; hoping for more results like Turner's win of Weiner's empty seat in congress. Obama's responsive clear NO on Palestine statehood stressing Israel's victimhood angle without even mentioning the occupation has now upped the ante. Proof is that for the first time ever Fox News's fake debate segments allowed the usual token fake lefti to actually talking about Israel's settlements for about 15 seconds.

      Perhaps Ron Paul's consultants will actually decide they may as well allow Ron Paul to get a bit more specific about what's wrong with US foreign policy since the media ignores and dismisses him same as all the cable TV News channels of whatever stripe--Ron Paul's economic and monetary message is being pillaged by both sides, yet that's the result. This is the time for Ron Paul to rise as far as he can; he will never get another such chance. He's already called upon US audience to stand in the shoes of Iran for a minute to get a tad of perspective. Israel's occupation might just be debated live on TV due to incessant mouthing of all the usual hasbara soundbite rhetoric long known to the exceptional American.

  • Outside the UN
    • Sorry, thankgodimatheist, I posted comment when way overtired; just wanted to give info on how vote lining up.

    • Yeah, your right about that, Amar.

    • Abbas has now said he plans to go to the GA right after the SC vote, which he says should be in 2 weeks..

    • MachahirNews Machahir123
      BREAKING: Reports:194 countries with #Palestine and 5 countries againts Palestine at the #UN = Israel,USA, Micronesia, Botswana and Canada.

      It's Sat, 2 pm; this tweet was 5 minutes ago. 194 to 5. I read Bibi was running around the back corridors at the UN trying to bribe a bunch of little desperate 3rd World countries, but all he got is Micronesia & Botswana. Wasn't Micronesia one of the little desperate swing states the US bribed to get UN recognition for Israel statehood? I think that bid past by 5 swing votes.

    • Bibi again offered Dersh a slot as Israeli's ambassador to USA? Compare his pic to the guy sitting on the US public bench.

  • A roundup of opinions from a busy week at the UN
    • Donald, yes, you're right. The same thing has happened in the USA regarding black Americans; objective view of them is slowly transpiring because they really have come a long way with white help; the Palestinian need to be pictured romantically now to some extent because they are powerless. It happened with the Jewish/Israeli image too in USA. The other side of the coin happened to the WASPSs; their image is only recently getting more objective after decades of Hollywood dissing. Time for the image of Jews and Israel to become more realistic? Or that dog can't hunt at all thanks to the Shoah? You decide. Hollywood won't listen to you anyway. Truman said he had no Palestinian constituency, but lots of Israel Firsters. I don't think the Jews will "take it like a man" as the WASPS have done in terms of recognizing they must pay some for their past privileges and power in the Establishment .

    • Well, maybe, but Zionism began as a Jewish knockoff of Volk nationalism in Germany; the initial impetus was fear of assimilation.

  • Palestinian statehood and the struggle for self determination and national rights
    • But Mr Daud, there the rub: If you mean the correct goal is a fully independent, fully sovereign state such as like, say, the US or Israel, have not the last few decades suggested to you that Israel simply will not agree to anything but a rump state, a bantustan (sic?) state? Bibi made that very clear and Wikileaks evidences this as a pattern of the "peace process." Not to mention Bibi is very clear regarding what Israel must have, and what Israel will never let any future Palestinian state have? Does the name Dennis Ross strike a bell?

      This does not necessarily mean the single-state solution is the way to go since, unlike apartheid S Africa, who thinks one state of Israel will capitulate to world BDS for full =rights within such a state? Afrikaners never convinced anyone in the powerful western nations that they had an ancestral right to the land; rather the white world, especially Europe withs its colonial past, viewed them as colonial dinosaurs. And the Afrikaners could not point to their very own Shoah. Methinks we are between a rock and a hard place: 1 S = apartheid state, 2-S = fake Palestinian state, basically, at best, a small Pale of Settlement or volunteer Warsaw Ghetto.

      Is there a third way/solution (other than ethnic cleansing; the current Dennis Ross solution de facto backed by full might of USA, "Israel's lawyer in 'honest broker' mask.

  • Is Barack Obama the most pro-Israel president in history?
    • Well, yes Mr Keeler. That's why he just made the cover of this hi-tempo Israeli magazine as Captain Israel (with an appropriate A on his forehead):

      All the POTUS wannabees deeply desire they get to wear that costume next (except Ron Paul); like Beiden recently said there's no sky between US & Israel, those asked last night in Orlando (including the front runner Romney), said there's no space between US & Israel. Perry & Bachmann are Christian fundi-Zionists at heart. Santorum's strictly hasbara & he's sticking to it. Cain got his less wordy hasbara on his trip to Israel.

  • Clemons: Imagine Cuba trumping the Soviet Union in the 60s, that's what Netanyahu did to Obama
    • irishmoses, isn't defining "Jewish" just as hard to define as "anti-semitic?"

    • If memory serves, re M & W's book, Tom Freidman's original stance was that there was no Israel Lobby at a time when even the Fox News wheelchair pundit and Mr Weekly Standard opined "maybe" it did exist.

    • Atzmon points to Wolfowitz as the chief neocon who drove America into attacking Iraq under Bush Jr. (Wolfowitz later was made President of the World Bank although he had no credentials for that job, if memory serves,)

    • In his new book, Atzmon's opening sentence asserts that Israel and Zionism are just "parts of the wider Jewish problem." His second paragraph states that "Israel is the Jewish state, at least that is what it claims to be." The paragraph continues: Yet, "in spite of its vast support by Jewish lobbies around the world, hardly any commentator is courageous enough to wonder what the world Jew stands for. This question, it seems, is still taboo within Western discourse."

      His third paragraph begins: "In this book I will try to untangle the knot."

    • Richard Falk, James Petras, Jeff Gates, among others, along with Mearsheimer, endorsed Atzmon's recently published study of Jewish Identity Politics.

    • If memory serves Atzmon actually said Israel now is worse than some aspects of Nazi Germany. His stance on studying the holocaust is that history is an ongoing discipline, some revision of it is to be expected as the historians differ in focus and new facts emerge, etc. In sum, Why should "The Holocaust" be the single aspect of world history that by cultural taboo or local law cannot be studied and expounded upon as all other history is? His conclusion is because The Holocaust is now a a matter of religious faith.

    • Perhaps this is assumed here, but Bibi is not the Alpha dog, it's Dennis Ross, the pit bull owned by AIPAC, the orchestra conductor for the Jewish Establishment in the USA (and Canada?). Or, if Bibi is the Alpha dog, that dog won't hunt without the food and shelter provided by AIPAC, the owner of the long leash to Bibi's collar, to Israel's body.

    • I agree, but I doubt most Americans noticed, and that's all that counts; the US mainstream media will make sure they never notice. Does 42 US UNSC vetos ring a bell?

  • The neocons' post-9/11 Jewish journey (and mine)
    • Great article, Jack Ross! Re" the worship of Jewish peoplehood." This POV, which turns every Jew living and dead into a god (no monolithic G-d, not after Nietzsche, but after the Shoah) is Holocaust Religion--it fits well into the view of goys like Dick Chaney who don't mind using it as well as being used by it. All neocons should wear that little lapel pin with the crossed flags, side by side, neither positioned higher--because it works! More power to the Straussian neocon elite, eh? Works quite well for the fake competition, for PEPs too.

  • Mr. President, we don't want a shortcut, we want our freedom
    • I watched a Rose interview with a top Saudi Arabian diplomat a few nights ago. The guy answered every one of Rose's questions regarding Israel-Palestinian issues the same way the non-hasbara regulars on this web site would have answered. It was uncanny. So guys, we are not alone in our thinking with some top folks in Saudi Arabia. The Saudi guy was very well informed and Charlie Rose never asked any follow-up after each response; he just went on to his next question. He did not look happy, wise, full of inquiry, but weary, much more so than he usually is on his show.

    • Well, yes, seems you need either oil or an AIPAC to really get Uncle Sam going strong in support for of you. Before the AIPAC motor got really greased up evangelical Christians were the likes of former Prez Carter and that guy the top politicos use to trot out with the high forehead and hair; I forget his name but he was once the only prominent Christian Evangelical preacher regularly around the WH. Ah, now I remember, Billy Grahm.The Hagees are a political force now because Israel Firsters see a use for them, and similarly the Christian Coalition. Every ruthlessly ambitious political animal in USA today sees where the compass points--straight to AIPAC/ADL etc.

    • I see the current status quo system as regressive, as feudal; it's quite clearly so once you get beyond the agrarian and lock into the corporate cubical space most in the Western World live in; with the former 3rd World playing catch up and beating us in some respect. The monetary system is actually in charge of the neo-feudal system, same as usury called the tune in the waning of the Middle Ages.

    • It's really hard, given America's campaign funding system, and in view of Congress as basically bribe-takers, not to view contemporary America as a plutocracy with a veneer of democracy.

    • Yes, seafoid, and that's exactly what is causing a storm within the Jewish community in USA rights now--the fear that Joe & Jane Blow may actually wake up:

      Jewish American elite fears goy voters may inquire into actual facts re Israel due 2 who-loves-israel-more contest…

      Here's the link again:

  • Ismail Khalidi: A tragic lecture, justifiying a vicious occupation, with no awareness that we killed the two-state solution
  • Obama speech was shattering to liberal Zionists
    • Cheer up, tune into Fox Cable New channel--the Republican candidates are now answering questions just for you.

    • True, an awakened Joe & Jane Doe is what the lobby fears the most, but don't underestimate the average US goy's steadily maintained ignorance of his country's lethal love affair with Israel no matter what s--t hits the fan. I really can't think of anything that would ignite a fire under his or her heine about Israel except reintroduction of the military draft; by the time that would be needed it would already be too late. Further, the new America doesn't feel any duty to go be cannon fodder for an imaginary USA they know is a fiction. Patriotism is no longer an American value nursed from the crib on. That's just chump work for fools. In this sense, the masses have caught up to the old ruling elite.

    • I agree with Sin Nombre. I see nothing but the US going down hill, dragged down by Israel Firsters in America, aided by Christian fundies, Wall St, Ike's favorite complex supplemented by HS which plants a Stasi here. I see China playing the "clash of civilizations" game very smartly, as it has played free trade and open markets. What will China do with a war on Iran? The "proposition nation's"
      center will not hold because identity politics and increasing poverty will make e pluribis unum (sic) look like an old cub scout merit badge. Weimar Era wheel barrel full of cash for a loaf of bread or a garage full of cash for a big screen tv? In Florida the crime of stealing copper wire from outside air conditioners is getting rampant. A Wendy's burger costs about $8.00. What's the minimum wage?

      Re: "And then, aside from this or that little peep, see how miraculously quickly the “liberal Zionists” accomodate themselves to that. There will, after all, still be a place where they can go and not have to rub shoulders with the stupid goyim."

      But that place might not be a safe haven anymore than the USA in the coming years. Israelis are already flocking to--Germany...

    • Not to mention the supplemental aid to that $3 billion yearly, with big doses of "emergency aid" quite frequent, or our underwriting of Israel's debt by our endless loan guarantees that magically convert to freebie grants. Doesn't the chattering class find it deeply ironic that Israel's credit rating, thanks to US underwriting of its debt, has jumped to AA+ by S & P, who a month earlier downgraded US credit rating to AA-?

    • Wouldn't it be fun to waltz in on Maddow when she's on air being her snarky boyish self about the campaign horse race--with a big Palestinian flag?

    • That IDF vector may be the one that takes the treads off the US tank when it's already running out of gas.

  • Well ain't that America: Obama ignores Palestine in UN speech on freedom, and the world watches the US execute an innocent man
    • Yes, thanks annie, and thanks too, Norheim!

    • Samuel, the patriotic American's litmus test is: fighting against the government when it is wrong. Americans are not Jewish Israelis; we have different values than you do--despite the conflation of our country with Israel by nearly all our political representatives. We have a country founded on the principle all men are created equal and stand so before our laws. Your national state derived from the model of the German Volk. You do what you can to keep the lethal tribal model flame flickering, in light of the world's opinion of ethno-mythical governments after Nuremberg and Geneva prodigy.

  • Perry embraces violent Jewish extremists, Politico's Ben Smith calls him 'moderate'
    • Perry screwed his chances at the debate in Orlando--on the illegal immigration issue and on SS issue. Lots of Repubs will switch to Romney. Perry sure is rough around the edges for a long time governor. I keep thinking he just stepped out of the cow pasture or coal mine.

    • You are correct, Kathleen, I watched the show too.

  • Ashrawi and Tibi say Obama made it sound like Palestinians are occupying Israel
    • Not quite; Obama will ultimately be backed by everybody on the Nanny tit in the USA; that's a whole lot of Americans. First rule of successful politician is to know the numbers.

    • Yeah, what Charon says does smack of wisdom. To all alive today, the US has been held up as a role model, and the existence of the state of Israel as a statement of universal commitment to Justice. The utter failure of both the US and Israel to live up to their icon humanitarian status as the way for humanity is glaring, especially in the last few decades. The rest of the world is not fooled one bit. Obama and the current crop of blaring Republican POTUS candidates compose a recipe for despising both USA and Israel. When hypocrisy smacks you hard in the face it cannot be long ignored. The US dollar will not be of much help either.

    • Charon, I agree with your conclusion but UK, Canada, Australia regimes seem to be hanging with US/Israeli consensus re how to view the world and act on it. Seems to be a version of AIPAC in all English-speaking countries, although no clone as powerful as AIPAC in USA. Seems Canada is closest.

    • Chaos, a poll recently came out showing blacks are 98% hanging with Obama no matter what. It was on TV news yesterday.

    • LOL, CloakAndDagger, I said the same thing on Twitter without reading VeteransToday.

    • Elliot, yes, of course, Obama cares more about money than about Jews. Hence Sin Nombre's comment conclusion: "So here’s the choice: An Obama who is willing to do this, or a Perry or etc. who (at least?) *believes* we should."

    • Yes, Sin Nombre, I just said the same thing above before I scrolled down and reached your comment. It's glaringly obvious. America has definitely been hijacked. And since Obama, Mr Black Change, can't stop it, I fail to see any future America except one even more the lackey for Israel. I too am deeply ashamed of my country. If I was younger, I'd seriously consider moving. Not sure where in Europe.

    • Toivo, have you not been listening to Republican contenders doing the Turner thing (NY winner, Weiner replacement contest)? Listen to them, especially Bachmann, Perry--all except Ron Paul. Their public spiel is to the right of Bibi himself and its bathed in ten American flags (or are they Israeli flags, I don't think they know the difference). Obama at the UN was talking to American Jews, not the UN GA. He's trying to convince the ones leaving to join the Republicans that he isn't throwing Israel under the bus.

    • If there is one Palestinian American who can speak flawless and eloquent English and in a casual American colloquial style, who is he or she? And would any MSM outlet put him/her on the air?

    • Hostage, Thomas Friedman has addressed the AIPAC element and Z Brezinski (sic) has anticipated Obama's historical error . They are somewhat part of MSM, though certainly nobody asked them to speak on TV cable or network news shows, where most Americans get their modest portion of political news.

    • Shingo, I don't think the Perry addicts got your message about the fake Obama messiah since Perry is now their's.

      Romney is a Mormon patriarch, with all that implies by anyone who actually knows how Mormon leaders operate in the real world.

    • Keith, Glen Ford identifies two very big players one needs to understand to see which way the wind is blowing, and which way it is being directed: 1) Near total racial commitment of Black American to half-black Obama (revenge of the "one drop" rule), no matter what he does, and 2) continuing consolidation of corporate power (helped a lot by SCOTUS's expansive view of legal fiction of corporations as "legal fictional persons," pitting their giant $ bags against Joe Blow's empty wallet to fill the air with propaganda benefitting the elite money citizens and Israel.

      Fellow travelers in the wind's direction is continuing white guilt, free nanny-statism, and fake free marketism.

    • No, progress would be every Joe & Jane Doe takes an AIPAC 101 course: An AIPAC primer U need 2 know:

    • "Appeasment." Chamberlain appeased Hitler, the predator, occupier, thus giving Hitler more time to develop and implement his imperial bully plan of conquest. The Czechs & their land were given to Hitler, hoping this would mollify him. By sing this term "appeasment," the Israel Firsters are saying the Palestinians are the conquerors, out to grab useful land and subjugate the natives, like the Nazi regime. Hence here we discuss how Obama made it sound like Palestinians are occupying Israel when fact is it is the reverse. Such macro absurdity taken as fact by the US bipartisan leadership justifies a future world where Israel has taken all Palestinian land, and marches on to annex Jordan. Who will stop the Zionists so long as the American political campaign funding system remains a bribe system, now with SCOTUS jumping in to say huge Corporate moneybags have the same rights as campaign donors like Joe & Jane Blow? Something feudal this way comes, slouching towards Jerusalem. It's the Golem Court Jew in the Diaspora partnering with the willing Israel Ghetto. It's AIPAC & Israel,
      the mud monster made by Western white goy guilt cojoined with Christian Crusaders, it's American "exceptionalism," aka supremism, lead by the nose by Jewish "chosenness." The City On The Hill needs to get prepared for the ultimate fight there between the two winners, the Zionists and the Christian Zionists--the ultimate civil war for control of the earth?

  • Deal in works to save Obama casting a veto, and continue 'peace process' --Guardian
    • biorabbi, why should Zaki differentiate between the US and Israel when all the Republican contenders (except Ron Paul) say there's no space between the two countries, and VP Beiden said earlier there's no sky between the two countries? In fact, nearly all US political leadership constantly tells the American people the same thing. Obama at the UN carried on about Israel's interests; he didn't even mention the occupation or settlers.

    • DBG, as I just told your buddy, eee, the highest form of American patriotism is to criticize his or her country when it is wrong. You'd find anti-semitism in a raindrop.

    • eee, in America the highest form of patriotism is to criticize your government when it is in the wrong. America is still paying for the '73 oil embargo, which it received because Kissinger convinced Nixon the Israelis really might use their nukes as they had been threatening to do.

  • On saying that Israel has a right to exist
  • Eric Alterman on his dual loyalty and the U.S. pressuring Palestinians to accept 'their historic position'
  • There's work to do
    • DBG, exercising standard hasbara trick of pointing elsewhere. Then he adds his own compound: we here on MW are wishing for a war against Israel. No, we R saying it's not good for US or Israel long term for the US to devote its entire diplomacy, the most significant chunk of it foreign aid cash and loan underwriting, and the life of its soldiers (made more vulnerable) to enable Israel's on-going land grabbing and oppression of an entire native people & Israel's continued nuclear-tipped hegemony of the most important geo-strategic area of the world, the ME.

    • ahmed, it's even worse; in satirical adult cartoons such as Family Guy; I just watched an episode where a "Palestinian alarm clock" awoke Peter & Family by bursting the bomb inside it, shattering the whole house to the ground. On the other hand, the same show has always treated anything Jewish positively, e.g., the show where Peter's wife discovers she has Jewish roots, and another where Peter's son is sent to Jewish school so he could become smart, etc. No other ethnic group is treated with positive stereotypes.

    • DBG, I am not aware of any comment Annie has ever made on this blog that would suggest she is uncritical of her own country's government--a good friend will be critical if they see you making a big mistake, and they will do this in your face. Patriotism is not revealed by loyalty to the state government right or wrong.

    • Direct aid is $3B per year; loans underwritten, turned into grants is another $3B per year in easy credit; & NGO tax deduction gifts for Israel amount to billions more; I've read from $8B per year to much higher--money other Americans have to make up with their tax payments. Also the $2B to Egypt is effectively indirect aid to Israel, and in fact US aid to Egypt is expressly conditional on Egypt effectively supporting Israel and not working against Israel's aims.

    • Witty:
      "I basically don’t know about the Liberty, and don’t bother to find out. I get that you think that that will the stimuli that breaks the hypnosis.
      You don’t have a clue about my attitudes or likely the others that you brandished."

      Witty, your attitude is reflected by your comment, clear as a bell. Only you can be so blind not to see an hear it.

  • Poor schmuck Harvey Pekar-- gets to be censored on Israel posthumously!
    • @ maximalistNarrative,
      What line is that?

    • @ Hayate
      Quite amazing that you diss Dostoevski so; have you ever read The Idiot, or The Brothers Karamazov? The Possessed (The Devils)? Compared to this great great Russian writer, Pekar was a comic book version of The Underground Man--and not nearly as good. I say that liking the work of both creators.

  • Comments Policy
    • Even if we accept your premise that Islam proponents are engaged as you say, we non Muslims object to Israel's policies and conduct because they are not in accord with Western notions of human rights. America stands for equal rights for all humans, and separation of religion and state. Americans and the West generally, don't like any religious proponents working for something else, whether to further Islamic regimes or Zionist Jewish regimes,

    • Yep, thee's a malfunction in the precise reply button. Some have it, some don't.

    • Thanks for that input, ritzy. Yes, quite a few comments are worthy of their own tweets, and MW would still be the link in the tweet. One work around is to edit a normal tweet from a MW article and edit the headliner to reflect a really good comment.

    • Welcome aboard!

    • Yes, thanks James, then Mrs. Weiss, then Phil. I too much value the ability to check out commenters' past comments.

    • The ability to track a present commenter's past comments on MW with a click onto his or her commenter name is very valuable. Who got rid of that feature? And why? Phil, Adam, we need you tell us.

    • Only Israel claims the OT is disputed territory because only Israel has ever claimed it's not really an occupier and that international law does not forbid the Israeli settlements. Go read their absurd rational on, e.g., Elder of Ziyon.

    • @ Annie Robbins
      You are a jewel. I'm very glad you exist!

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