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  • In Jerusalem, the Nakba is a fresh memory
    • There is a National Museum for Native Americans in Wash DC.
      I don't think others qualify for government tax dollars, e.g., Armenians.

    • Maybe one, next to the biggie on the National Mall, in Wash DC?
      There are an awful lot of Holocaust Museums in the USA: link to

      Not as many museums dedicated to Native Americans: link to

    • Here is the full test of 25 questions, with commentary on how to score your points and what they each mean:

      link to

    • Annie, re "common culture" aspect of nationalism. In Charles Murray's book Coming Apart, there is a simple 20 question test all Americans can take to see if they live within a culture bubble, that is, to find out if they even have one friend who is an average or normal American--here it is: link to

    • Hah, I have the same single belief, LeaNder: that I will die. Of course all I know about that is my life as I know it will end.

    • LeaNder, honey pie, what gave you the impression I expected you to embrace "inner nationalists" in Palestine? And think about this: "The Shoah is my eternal flame that guides my inner Jewish nationalist."

    • Annie, LeaNder pointed to German nationalism, specifically to the time the Prussians were uniting the various areas to become the German state represented in the world by Bismarck. The notion of the Volk was developed in the years prior thereto, with the issue of What Is A German? Hitler of course raised it in lurid detail, recounting his days as a young artist wannabe, when he first came upon Jews in the Vienna street (from the East in their orthodox dress, hair style, manners).

      Melting pot? That metaphor has died; America's children today are taught to value "diversity" and "multiculturalism." The metaphor "tossed salad" is common; the newest I know of is "chunky stew." (The Food Channel shows the differences--just joking).

      Anyway, since the term "nationalism" is a pejorative in liberal circles generally, and is known as "patriotism" in contrary circles, I figure it might not be such a long sin to copy and paste this in here:

      "Although nationalism is unique to the modern world, some of its elements can be traced throughout history. The first roots of nationalism are probably to be found in the ancient Hebrews, who conceived of themselves as both a chosen people, that is, a people as a whole superior to all other peoples, and a people with a common cultural history. The ancient Greeks also felt superior to all other peoples and moreover felt a sense of great loyalty to the political community. These feelings of cultural superiority (ethnocentrism), which are similar to nationalism, gave way to much more universal identifications under the Roman Empire and with the Christian Church through its teaching of the oneness of humanity.
      As strong centralized monarchies were built from petty feudal states, as regional languages and art forms were evolved, and as local economies widened, popular identification with these developments became increasingly strong. In areas such as Italy, which were not yet single nations, recurring invasions led such thinkers as Niccolò Machiavelli to advocate national political federation. The religious wars of the Reformation set nation against nation, though the strongest loyalty continued to adhere to the sovereign. In the 16th and 17th cent. the nationalistic economic doctrine of mercantilism appeared.
      The growth of the middle classes, their desire for political power, and the consequent development of democratic political theory were closely connected with the emergence of modern nationalism. The theorists of the French Revolution held that people should establish governments of equality and liberty for everyone. To them the nation was inseparable from the people, and for the first time in history a people could create a government in accordance with the nation's general will. Although their aims were universal, they glorified the nation that would establish their aims, and nationalism found its first political expression.

      It was in the 19th cent. that nationalism became a widespread and powerful force. During this time nationalism expressed itself in many areas as a drive for national unification or independence. The spirit of nationalism took an especially strong hold in Germany, where thinkers such as Johann Gottfried von Herder and Johann Gottlieb Fichte had developed the idea of Volk. However, the nationalism that inspired the German people to rise against the empire of Napoleon I was conservative, tradition-bound, and narrow rather than liberal, progressive, and universal. And when the fragmented Germany was finally unified as the German Empire in 1871, it was a highly authoritarian and militarist state. After many years of fighting, Italy also achieved national unification and freedom from foreign domination, but certain areas inhabited by Italians (e.g., Trieste) were not included in the new state, and this gave rise to the problem of irredentism. In the United States, where nationalism had evinced itself in the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, national unity was maintained at the cost of the Civil War.
      In the latter half of the 19th cent., there were strong nationalist movements among the peoples subject to the supranational Austrian and Ottoman empires, as there were in Ireland under British rule, and in Poland under Russian rule. At the same time, however, with the emergence in Europe of strong, integrated nation-states, nationalism became increasingly a sentiment of conservatives. It was turned against such international movements as socialism, and it found outlet in pursuit of glory and empire (see imperialism). Nationalist conflicts had much to do with bringing on World War I.
      The early 20th cent., with the breakup of Austria-Hungary and of the Ottoman Empire, saw the establishment of many independent nations, especially through the peace treaties ending World War I. The Paris Peace Conference established the principle of national self-determination, upheld by the League of Nations and later by the United Nations. While self-determination is a nationalist principle, it also recognizes the basic equality of all nations, large or small, and therefore transcends a narrow nationalism that claims superiority for itself.
      It was exactly this latter type of nationalism, however, that arose in Nazi Germany, preaching the superiority of the so-called Aryan race and the need for the extermination of the Jews and the enslavement of Slavic peoples in their “living space” (see National Socialism). Italian fascism was in a similar manner based on extreme nationalist sentiments. At the same time, Asian and African colonial territories, seeking to cast off imperial bonds, were developing nationalist movements. Perhaps the most famous of these was the Indian National Congress, which struggled for Indian independence for over 60 years. After World War II nationalism in Asia and Africa spread at such a fast pace that dozens of new “nations” were created from former colonial territorial holdings.
      Although interdependence and global communications interconnected all nations by the 1990s, nationalism appears to have grown more extreme with the breakup of the Soviet empire, the growth of Muslim fundamentalism, and the collapse of Yugoslavia. Xenophobic, separatist movements are not necessarily confined to newly independent states; they appear in many European nations and Canada, as well as India, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, and many others. International organizations, such as the United Nations, the European Union, the Organization of American States, and the Organization for African Unity, represent attempts to curb extreme nationalism, stressing cooperation among nations."

      link to

    • Taxi, I cannot talk about Israel and/or the "special relationship" with non-Jews either in my extended family (except for 2 of my siblings), nor with my non-Jewish inlaws, nor with my neighbors--they don't want to hear it, change the subject. MW may as well be on Newt's colonized moon of the future for all any of them know or care.

    • yourstruly, I guess one could say the same for America as for Europe? Former minorities will be the workers paying for the retired whites? Whites are no longer the majority of babies born in the USA each year. And the younger generations today have become increasingly "diverse." OTOH, what's to stop the new majority from changing the safety net rules? For example, Obamacare puts a lot more of the young on Medicaid (pure entitlement), and it reduces Medicare benefits for the elderly (who pay monthly premiums). Somewhat similarly with changes coming to Social Security.

    • What's really depressing, yourstruly, to me as an American, is that so many of the illegal Israeli settlers were born and bred in America. Obviously, America is breaking up in terms of best humane values. In the near future, when the whiles are a minority, not only in various urban areas, but nationally in terms of total demography, will my whole country be like these, e.g., Brooklyn jews who fly off to Israel to play Cowboys and Indians? Is that what I and my family fought in so many wars for since I was born?

    • LeaNder is suffering from deep German guilt; she still does not see that what she emotionally affords the Jews, she does not afford the Palestinians. She reduces Ramzi Jaber's admittedly emotional portrait of himself, his very identity, to the intellectual exercise of a Palestinian working to send back the Jews to where they come from--interesting, nicht wahr? She has never done anything remotely similar with any Jewish anguish registered on MW; indeed, she has bent over backward to embrace such. She has a problem. Is it a very subtle version of what Churchill said about the Germans? That they were either at your neck, or at your feet? What does LeaNder offer Jaber emotionally, to ask the least?

    • Taxi, I interpreted David Samel's comment you object to entirely differently; I think he was asking the question, why don't the Palestinians who escaped, got educated, found a new home elsewhere, just "move on, forget about it," as a significant amount of Jews did after 1945, he claims?
      They buried it--how often have I read about somebody talking about their parents or grandparents who "never talked about it (the Shoah)? I'm sure I am not alone. Raising that question, Samel says: because the horror of the Nakba is still going on, even if in relative slow-motion, yet daily. It's a valid point to make regarding Phil's post here.

      PS: Speaking not about anyone who actually had family who suffered in the Shoah, when I married my Jewish wife a quarter century after the Shoah, in America, her whole extended family very definitely had not forgotten about the Shoah. They would not own a German car. They gave me a hard time, believe me. Cannot talk about Israel with any of them to this day.

    • I must say, my gut reaction was the same as CitizenC's--if the Nakba is not an assignment for all Americans, that is, an assignment also for the 98% of us Americans who were not born Jewish and have not converted to Judaism, then why is the Shoah an American assignment, which it clearly is in every school in America, beginning with The Diary Of Anne Frank and To Kill A Mockingbird? Further, does it not mean anything that tiny Israel is the number one beneficiary of US foreign aid in all US history? Don't we have a stake in this fight for Palestinians' basic human rights? How many non-Jewish Americans died so that accountability could be had at Nuremberg and Tokyo? What's all that, chopped liver? Count the crosses in the military cemetery fields. The crimes tried at Nuremberg were not merely those directed against the USA, but those directed at humanity itself--and everyone in the West at least meant mainly "the Jewish people" at the time, as foremost victim.

  • Hasbara: Reach-out to non-Jews with 'Zionist-inspired' calendar
    • somewhat related to some of the comments on this thread, so food for thought:
      link to

      I've always wondered, when discussing the bible with fundies--those who claim to have their personal Jesus with them always--how such people so glibly gloss over what happens to often innocent non-Jewish folks in the Old Testament. The answer is always the same: Don't question God and the Jews are God's chosen people. Full Stop.

  • Presbyterian investment committee recommends divestment from Caterpillar, Hewlett-Packard and Motorola over complicity in the occupation
  • Mark Perry: Israel and Iran's 'low-level war' is 'dangerous stuff'
    • US forces in Afghanistan (especially) and Iraq use that tried and true Mafia way of getting their way--wads of cash in a bag. Every US grunt knows the score. They don't for a minute trust the locals they are arming, training, etc. Just one or two of those wads of cash they see their sergeant giving to the local volunteers from the nearby villages would set PFC Adams up very well if he ever gets back home in one piece.

  • Wael Ghonim at Harvard: a key figure of the Egyptian revolution speaks truth to U.S. power
    • I think it takes some real empathy, sympathy, and imagination to stand in the shoes of an Egyptian individual who, for his whole life until very recently, there was not a single crack in the sky between his despotic government and America--when he/she is being asked in public about his/her country by any American media person, mainstream or not.
      He didn't point out what he did about Hillary Clinton for nothing.

    • To get a free cell phone and 250 free minutes per month in USA, you must certify in your "lifeline" application:

      I hereby certify that I participate in at least ONE of the following public assistance programs (select just ONE
      program from the list):
      Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (Food Stamps)
      Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
      Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
      National School Lunch Program (NSLP) - Free Lunch
      Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)
      Federal Public Housing Assistance/Section 8
      Bureau of Indian Affairs Programs (Tribal Temporary Assistance for Needy
      Families, Head Start Subsidy, NSLP)

    • You are right, Nevada Ned. I posted some factual support above on this thread for what you said before I read what you say here.

      PS, in America, if you look at your cell phone bill, you will see there's a charge there that's not related to your usage--it's there because our federal government charges all of us to give free cell phones and monthly free usage to all those meeting certain poverty standards--that answers the question, "Gee, if they're so poor, why do they always have a cell phone in use?"

    • American, thanks for sharing the Reuters Africa link. Here's more from it MW readers might want to see, but have little time:

      "Tensions were further inflamed with the release of remarks made last year by Minister of International Cooperation Faiza Abul Naga in which she linked U.S. funding to civil society to an American plot to undermine Egypt. She spoke of what she called an attempt to steer the post-Mubarak transition in "a direction that realized American and Israeli interests".

      The rise of Islamist groups since Mubarak was ousted has caused deep concern in Israel. But despite their worries, Israeli officials do not believe the next president of Egypt will tear up the peace treaty.

      A cleric seen as close to the Brotherhood said in an interview published on Wednesday that Egypt could not risk any military confrontation with Israel, adding that the country's main concern must be its economic problems.

      "Egypt cannot enter a struggle in the military sense and leave the affairs of building on the internal front," Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian who lives in Qatar, told Shorouk newspaper. "Now the citizen cannot remain without work.""

      $250,000 of the $1.3 M aid to Egypt is for humanitarian purposes, not military purposes.

    • In Israel, the percentage of families living in poverty is 18.9%, and in the USA, 1/3rd of Americans comprise the extreme to near poor. As in Egypt, so it is in America that the poorest are those who live in rural areas. The figure for Israel does not break down the percentage in terms of Israeli Jews versus Israeli Arabs.

    • RE: "... perhaps some more meaningful standards will be required from Israel in the near future?"

      Did I miss something, like the US is threatening to withdraw US aid to Israel (population 7 M) of $3B annually as it has threatened to withdraw $1.5 B aid to Egypt (population 80M)?

      Overall about 44.4% of the Egyptian population are in the range of extreme poor to near poor. Most US aid to Egypt is devoted to its military.

  • Right wing to Rudoren: Are you now, or have you ever been, a Zionist?
    • Alison Weir has a great piece in Counterpunch on how the Rudoren appointment keeps the NYT news about Israel-Palestine "all in the family." For over 40 years the slot has been held by Jews only. link to

      No conflict of interest there, eh?

  • Pro-Israel handbook explains how to attack professors and ‘co-opt’ students of color
    • Yeah, radii, I gather the same approach whenever I view a White House Press person making an announcement and taking questions from the press--most especially when it concerns anything involving Israel in any way.

    • Phan Nguyen, you are a keen translator! Right on the mark every time.

  • 'A level of racist violence I have never seen': UCLA professor Robin D. G. Kelley on Palestine and the BDS movement
    • Racism on MW?

      How about this:

      Excerpts: September 2003 interview in Elsevier, a Dutch weekly:
      By Nadim Ladki

         An Israeli professor and military historian hinted that Israel could avenge the holocaust by annihilating millions of Germans and other Europeans.

              Speaking during an interview which was published in Jerusalem Friday, Professor Martin Van Crevel said Israel had the capability of hitting most European capitals with nuclear weapons.

              "We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets of our air force."

              Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, pointed out that "collective deportation" was Israel's only meaningful strategy towards the Palestinian people.

              "The Palestinians should all be deported. The people who strive for this (the Israeli government) are waiting only for the right man and the right time. Two years ago, only 7 or 8 per cent of Israelis were of the opinion that this would be the best solution, two months ago it was 33 per cent, and now, according to a Gallup poll, the figure is 44 percent."

              Creveld said he was sure that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon wanted to deport the Palestinians.

              "I think it's quite possible that he wants to do that. He wants to escalate the conflict. He knows that nothing else we do will succeed."

              Asked if he was worried about Israel becoming a rogue state if it carried out a genocidal deportation against Palestinians, Creveld quoted former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan who said "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."

              Creveld argued that Israel wouldn't care much about becoming a rogue state.

              "Our armed forces are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that  this will happen before Israel goes under."

    • Here is Grace Halsell, again writing in 1998--this time specifically about the Jewish Zionist-Christian Zionist alliance: link to

    • Here is Grace Halsell, writing in 1998 about Israel and the American relationship with that state--and why both are so damn wrong: link to

      I just wish I could get my fundie friends to read it, but they now delete anything I send them if it concerns this subject.

    • Did you notice our elected president, dimadok? And the professor in the video clip here?

    • Mayhem, are the Jewish People the oldest surviving ethnic community in the world? How about the people of Iraq and Iran? The Chinese? Certain African communities?

    • dimadok, serial killers express themselves freely too--until they are put away for good. Similarly, criminals generally, not to mention those Germans and Imperial Japanese liked to express themselves freely too.

      Your country? Where would it be today if the USA has not made it the largest free loader beneficiary in recorded US history?

    • MarkF, plus we are still underwriting Israel's debt despite the fact Israel has a better credit rating than the US.

    • "You want to be complicit, and have all the perks of your job and have a lot of time to do your work, or do you want to take a stand for justice, and be not just a human, but someone who believes in humanity. It’s a simple question."

      I think our US Congress and WH have decided not to be folks who believe in humanity. And, of course, Zionism does not believe in humanity at all. It thinks it has the historical proof. Nothing like cherry picking world history, eh?

  • Rudoren responds to the Twitter kerfuffle
    • LOL
      Back in the day, two of my nieces use to always say in unison, "Shake n bake n Ah Heped!"
      & yeah, that was it at the ballpark too.


    • Dickerson, action was/is a high value in Fascist thought, e.g., if you got gyped by a dishonest shopkeeper, the fascist remedy was to have thugs beat the crap out of that shopkeeper. This was a form of justice common people could appreciate when they are submerged in the myriad ways due process can benefit those who can pay off the links in the police-judicial system de facto, rather than de jure. OTOH, not sure beyond that reality, if the cult of action is not more aesthetic, e.g., Futurism, than not. If thinking is a form of emasculation, than Dick and Jane have no sex organs? Are they really Barb and Ken? Maybe so. Meh.
      I think Bernays thought so, and proved it, and so did Goebbels, his avid student. And now we have our handful of complicit major media organs giving us "all the news good for youse." NYT recently spokesperson recently defended its coverage of the ME by saying it catered to the middle audience, not to the extreme on either end. Hamburger helper, anyone? What's not to like for dinner?

  • New 'NYT' bureau chief Jodi Rudoren faces outcry from Israel advocates over Twitter messages
    • hophmi 's premise assumes most of our congress people take free trips to the WB & Gaza; that our political leaders are always praising the "special relationship" we have with the Palestinian people; that every year a substantial number of our congress people genuflect at some Palestinian version of AIPAC; that the Palestinians have been the biggest beneficiary of US foreign aid in US history, etc

      I guess hophmi also believes MW is like NYT, WaPO, WSJ, etc & Phil has a nightly news show on MSNBC while Adam has one on CNN.

  • Norman Finkelstein slams the BDS movement calling it 'a cult'
    • LeaNder, RE: "... a women responded that she and her husband had not put there family name on their house, not trusting the neighborhood. What can I say?"

      Kirk Douglas, icon of the American Silver Screen & a positive household name for generations--I'm sure you know who he is--has stated in his dotage that he has never trusted a single Gentile in his whole life.

      Between his vicarious trauma and yours, his haunting and yours, what's an average American or Palestinian, for example, suppose to do with the combined borrowed traumatic neurosis you each have internalized--towards a peaceful future?

      PS, Kirk Douglas's innate bias against all Gentiles is discussed to a certain extent here, in case you don't remember or missed it: link to

    • LeaNder, U are correct, the charge of "anti-semitism" continues to cloud up things, and yes, nobody can refute such charge since it is soft enough to stick for anyone who is irrational, and especially, intent on charging Israel, Jews, remain forever vulnerable to the Goy born with the disease of "anti-semitism."

      Like the charge of white racism in USA, it will never go away. One day, will this same glue attach to Islamophobia? And will Dick n Jane ever be free of their racism, their ethnic status in the world of power politics--even if, as is happening, they have less power every day?

    • RE: How to resolve the conflict? "Finkelstein responded by telling him that if you wanted to design a mass movement to do that you can’t go beyond what the public is ready to accept."
      What is the Israeli public willing to accept? Has there been anything remotely as substantive as the resistance of some churches and the white resistance to apartheid in old S Africa?

      link to

      And, as to what world opinion will accept, with the exception of the USA, is there much backing for BDS?

      I agree with whoever commented earlier, that the Israeli regime acts more and more like the old Mafia of Capone's days. What may be Israel's technical "tax problem?"

    • Re Finklestein on the BDS movement:

      BDS heating up: buying Brit & USA politicians is cheaper than making Israeli tanks (even with poor US taxpayers paying much of the bill): link to

    • kapok, I don't know what most influenced America's support against apartheid S Africa, but, though you show Cuba was a big influence in bringing the plight of blacks in apartheid S Africa to the light of the American masses, I think this was nothing in America, where I think the black American influence was, as a practical matter, everything-- in terms of American regime full support of BDS against apartheid S Africa--US support directly came from the power of the black community in the (mostly guilty white) US congress. It, BDS against apartheid S Africa (US support of as a derivative of US black history and affirmative action on the grand scale) was something not available to Palestinians--they never came over on slave boats to USA.

    • jamiesw, back in the day, did anyone ever call the BDS movement against apartheid S Africa "a cult?" Just asking. I don't remember so, and I was alive and kicking back then.

    • leaNder, re your summation of Israel's right to maintain an ethnoreligious majority in Israel--is that at any and all costs, and , are you speaking from your personal experience? And do you ever speak for the personal experience of Palestinians? Is Germany ready to cut off part of its land and give it to Israel to make amends? If not, why not? I think its so cute how you push your German responsibility onto the Palestinians--and more, feel righteous about it. With you as a proponent of Palestinians' cause, do they needs enemies? Just saying. So, don't you at least think Germany should give more to Israel than it does? And, how long should it be self-obligated?

    • LeaNder,

      I am completely unwilling to basically assume that whoever happens to be German can’t be trusted on the issue, since ultimately he/she must have some kind of self-interest on the issue, however that self-interest came to be. Do the Palestinian people have anything at all in common with the German people? If so, what would those interests be?

    • Annie, did not Israel accept the original borders (55% of partition land, if memory serves) as a PRECONDITION to being legitimized as a "nation among nations" ? Problem is, Israel has never honored that precondition. Doesn't this raise the question of Israel's legitimacy? If memory serves, Israel accepted this precondition imposed by the UN, and it also accepted, as a post-condition of UN acceptance as a "nation among nations" that the natives be allowed to return ASAP. Neither condition has been met. Does this not call into question the legitimacy of Israel as a state like any other, where we have not even got to the issue of Israeli settlements from the war of '67 to now?

    • Kathleen, yes. No matter what anyone says, Israel keeps dispossessing the natives. Eating the pizza at the dinner table while pretending to distribute it to the others at the table. Does any American actually think the World does not notice this?

    • dimadok, so that's what you got from Danaa's comment? What a dim dok you are, judging by your comment. Do you think Emily Dickinson really thought a frigate was just like a book?

    • Also, Cliff, another very important aspect of the difference in tactics re BDS apartheid S Africa back in the day, and BDS apartheid Israel today is that American support of S Africa back in the day cost America virtually nothing (while gaining moral symmetry in view of US Civil Rights history), while American support of Likud Israel today has literally cost us immensely, in terms of our good image in the world, our blood, and treasure (while having no moral symmetry with US highest values).

    • Cliff,

      Re: "He says BDS in SA came after a phase of education to the uninvolved masses presumably. That’s fine, but why can’t BDS do both at the same time? I see a lot of supporters of BDS mention that – that you can do both, education and activism."

      I don't remember the American public generally caring at all about apartheid S Africa during the BDS campaign against it, and I don't remember them seeking information about S Africa. Do you? I do remember US politicians speaking out against apartheid, and the usual liberal agencies doing so, and, especially, black Americans who viewed the campaign against S African apartheid as an extension, legacy of the American Civil Rights Movment (and in my opinion, rightly so). None of the general public, nor any congress person spoke out in favor of the S African regime of the time--it would have been the end of their political career--again, if memory serves. So, in sum, in America, at least, the unopposed political capital supporting BDS against apartheid S Africa came entirely from the analogy to Jim Crow America, which was no longer PC, of course. The uninvolved America masses remained uninvolved throughout, in the main. To me, this suggests that activism is more important than education in the matter of tactics, if one insists on prioritizing the two; but obviously, the two are symbiotic.

      Yet, blacks make up 13% of the US population, and they carry weight disproportionate due to the accepted slavery sins of the past, while Palestinians are what % of the US population (I think Arabs as a whole are now about 3%)? And neither the Palestinians in particular, nor the Arab-Americans in general have any weight as historical Americans founding this nation, while Jewish Americans do. This suggests to me that education of the American masses as to ME history is very much at least as important as activism. The third factor'tactic, not present much in the struggle to free blacks in S Africa, is, essentially, to educate Americans effectively that Palestinians are actually real humans like all of us, not invented. And the biblical God's people too.
      Good luck with all that.

  • You won't have Ethan Bronner to kick around anymore . . .
    • Is there a US MSM pundit on any geographical area in the world other than Israel's who has a child in a foreign military there, or one who has served the foreign military either directly or in a support military unit? Who would that be, other than when the foreign country is Israel and the family defense-military link is to Israel?

    • Might not have Bronner to kick around anymore--but he's still kicking, and hard--here he is, again beating the war drums to bomb Iran like crazy--why not, he says, it will be a war on the cheap: link to

      The article points out the obvious: that all the threats of war in the last five years have not come from Iran, but from USIsrael.

    • Yeah, LeaNder, if all you know is hamburger helper and fake cheese and noodles, why, that's exactly what you will get from the NYT for dinner. Why stretch anyone's taste buds? Comfort food always sells well.

  • New book explores the history of 'New Jewish Agenda'
    • Edmond James de Rothschild (1845-1934) was the first to fund the Zionist project (from France), in 1882. The intent was always to get rid of the locals by hook or by crook. Zionist moneybags from Europe were gradually found to, e.g., buy off local Arab bigwigs, by funding their own power agenda in other neighborhood lands. In January 1919, for example, Chaim Weizmann and the Hashemite Emir Faisal who was aspiring to the leadership of the Arab Nationalist Movement, concluded an agreement under British auspices whereby Faisal would support Jewish immigration into Palestine in return for economic support for the future state Faisal was hoping to create.

    • Yep, this guy is gazing at his naval, assuring himself it is kosher, and Phil let's him post an article on MW. Meanwhile, Palestinians are taking a wacking daily. Imagine if it was the other way around... Phil would probably have a heart attack. Instead, we have to put up with Nepon selling his book. Imagine, Gentile Americans here, what Rachel Corrie would have to say about this state of affairs on Mondowiess. Would she say, "Phil should lose the 'Mondo" because it is not true in a practical sense, when it comes to what Palestinians are going through every day, thanks to US taxpayer cash"?

    • Yeah, I think, instead of us reading or recommending his book, this article poster, Mr Nepon, should watch the following video a few dozen times because it pretty much is an expose of just what Zionism is and what it does--from the horse's mouth: link to

    • Maybe it would be wise to say, "Zionism as practiced is a form of racism?" Remember all those folks who remained Communists long after the whole world could see what Communism was once it left the library of Marx? And, hey--there's Christianity, and then there was, for example, the Crusades, and The Inquisition. And so on. Between the ideal and the real falls the shadow.

  • Shit Zionists say
    • American, I know a few. The ones I know don't respond to the label "Zionist," nor do they know anything at all about Zionism. They are not Hagee followers per se. They identify as Americans who have a personal relationship with Jesus.
      While they never use the term "zionist," and don't respond to it, they do think they know something about Islam/Muslims, which is that the terrorist Muslims want to take over the world and establish Sharia Law in the USA. They do quote the bible in support of their firm belief that Jews are chosen by God and they literally equate the state of Israel with that word in the bible, totally disregarding any use of that word as part of figurative language, and, again, they firmly believe the Jews must be supported, this includes Israel--at all costs--literally at all costs, including contributing the full wealth and blood of America. For them, God's word is clear, and if you don't support the Jewish tribe above any other, you will not be accepted into heaven. If you keep throwing facts, historical or current, at them, in the end they will say they will pray for you, hope you will one day see the light, wish you well, and since no tribe or people is perfect, they tell you, "OK, so you have chosen your tribe, the Palestinians, and I have chosen mine, the Jews. I won't discuss this matter with you anymore. BTW, do you have a Palestinian lover, or best friend? Why do you keep discussing the Palestinians? " These fundies I know do not personally know any Jewish person at all, and have never lived where there were lots of Jews. I can assure you, if the fundies I know, who again, do not even identify as "Christian Zionists," are any indication, they are set in their beliefs and will not be moved. (BTW, these fundies have also never known any Arab, Palestinian or otherwise--nor have they ever communicated with one via email or otherwise online.)

      Finally, I also knew one "Jews for Jesus" woman. She was a font of the most recognizable pure hasbara sound bites, but would sometimes check out any support references you gave her for what you told her--she would always come back, calling those sources anti-semitic/anti-Israel. She says there might be a Jew somewhere back in her family tree, but she had no details, just, it sounded like, a wish.

  • Hasbara PennBDS wrap-up: Pro-Israel students are ignorant
    • Nazi & Zionist Eugenics: link to

      Reclaiming the Physical Jew: The Contribution of Political Zionism: link to

      Arthur Ruppin"s "New Jew": link to

      "One of the most prominent eugenicists of the Mandatory period was Dr. Joseph Meir, a well-known doctor who acquired his education in Vienna, served for about 30 years as the head of the Kupat Holim Clalit health maintenance organization, and after whom the Meir Hospital in Kfar Sava is named. "From his position at the very heart of the Zionist medical establishment in the land of Israel in the mid-1930s, he brought young mothers the gospel of eugenics, warned them about degeneracy and transmitted the message to them about their obligation and responsibility for bearing only healthy children," says Stoler-Liss." link to

    • Shaktimaan, re your "Sounds like Zionism to someone who has a very weak understanding of what real Zionism looks like. As an ideology there’s nothing racist inherent to the overall movement."

      So what does Zionism look like once it leaves the philosophers' table?

      I urge everyone to read the below-linked article, so you can see just how wrong Shaktimaan's bald state is--the article is almost a decade old, but the facts on which it is based have merely increased on the ground, where any ideology becomes logical deductive reality as practiced, a reality justified by the basic ideological premises and goals of, in this case, Zionism:

      link to

    • proudzionist777, Re: "Several waves of emigration to Eretz Yisroel, over a period of 600 years, were made by thousands of religiously inspired Jews.... these waves of religious Jewish emigrants to Eretz Yisroel, and to Jerusalem in particular, created the foundation on which political Zionism could build their national homeland beginning in the late 1800’s."

      What waves of Ashkenazi Jewish emigrants are you talking about, and what are their numbers other than the three groups of Vilna Gaon's disciples and their families, numbering about 500, who made aliyah to the Land of Israel between 1808 and 1812? (Their arrival is said to have revived the presence of Ashkenazi Jewry in Jerusalem, which for over 100 years had been mainly Sephardi.)

    • Naiem Giladi spent most of the money he got from his sale of his land in Israel to self-publish his book, which has been banned in the USA in the sense that nobody would publish it without reserving the right to edit it before publishing it--that's one of the ways you ban books under the 1st Amendment in America. Or, you may eventually be able to get your book published by getting your seminar article published in another country first, as W & M did with The Israel Lobby. Giladi says from his personal experience Zionists have a record of racism and dealing ruthlessly with not only Gentiles, but also Jews, like himself, a native-born Iraqi Jew, who expose the truth about Zionism as it has actually been practiced in the ME:
      link to

    • Shaktimaan, you are confusing or intentionally conflating ethnicity with modern statehood via your usage of the noun "nation." To my knowledge, there is no single ethnic group that has been authorized by international law, especially since 1945, to have its own nation-state that can not be held to account for its actions by the international community through all its organs, simply because that ethnic group exists and has a state recognized by the international community via all its organs. In other words, no modern or post-modern state is "sovereign" or purely self-governing, in the eyes of contemporary world civilization. Otherwise, the human rights principles and civilized principles of the governance of states established at Nuremberg and Tokyo, and clarified further by Geneva, mean nothing--mean that Goering was correct in maintaining that "might makes right," and the rest is BS, even in democratic states.

    • Adam & Phil, I agree with patm here. For the reasons patm expressed. The great value of Hostage's contributions to this web site (for which Hostage so generously spends so much time in the interest of keeping the historical record and applicable law straight), are to be decided de facto by your allowing the constantly misleading likes of Werdine and Shaktimaan to comment here, while officially rejecting Blankfort?

    • Shaktimaan,
      Re: "I never insisted that Jewish self determination come at the expense of Palestinian rights. The issue is not about that, it is about the specifics of a peace arrangement."

      The "specifics of a peace arrangement" have everything to do with ironing out the conflicting notions the adversaries at the peace table have regarding what they each will accept as fulfilling their respective right to self-determination.

      RE: "Zionism did not seek the eradication of Palestine where it once stood. Palestine as a state has not yet ever existed, and the idea of a nationality of Palestinians is relatively new. This does not mean Palestinians are any less deserving of their own state. It is just acknowledging that one did not exist beforehand."

      Zionism form its inception sought a "homeland" and/or "state" anywhere it could get it, at one time Africa, finally Palestine. It never thought about, nor tried to get that homeland or state in, say Antartica, which to this day is virtually not populated and is not claimed by any existing state or people. The early Zionists wanted a homeland/state someplace where they could count on non-Jewish support, that is British support--- because at the time Britain was a major colonial superpower and not essentially an isolation's state, as America was, arguably, and for sure, comparatively, at the time. America was enlisted to the Zionist cause too--most significantly, by arch Zionist Brandaise (sic, the member of SCOTUS) thru his relationship with Wilson. A major support there were the folks who had invested in the Brits so much in WW1 and wanted a return on their investment--at the time Germany was winning the war, which was fought elsewhere than in Germany itself.

      The Palestinians did not seek the eradication of the Jews where they stood at the time. Israel as a state has not yet ever existed, and the idea of a nationality of Israeli was unknown, or brand new. This did not mean Jews were any less deserving of their own state than any other ethnic group at the time, or indeed, now . It is just acknowledging that one did not exist beforehand.

      RE: "All states are manufactured. In the middle east especially. Israel is in fact mostly populated by people of Arab or mixed Arab descent."

      True. However, the Nuremberg and Toyko Trials, the end result of WW1 and its leading to WW2, now provide a curb by the principles laid down at those trials, and by the international law following in their wake, on how any people could, or can, with World consent, manufacture a state, or enlarge one already existing. In short, nobody can point to the American war on the natives way back when to excuse or justify colonialism after 1945.

      RE: "... the US has been very good for the Jews, but they do not have self-determination there. Nor do they in the UK..."

      Please explain, Shaktimaan, how the Jews are deprived of self-determination in the USA and UK. Also, what ethnic group in USA does have the proper amount of self-determination you are using as your model/ideal? We are all looking forward to your clarification. Thanks!

    • Shaktimaan, the need for (collective, I guess) "Jewish self-determination" ends where the need for the other's self-determination begins. Otherwise, what was the point of, say, the Nuremberg and Toyko trials? Otherwise, what was the point of dissing Jim Crow, or even the slave South? Or apartheid S Africa? Or the Battle of Algeria?

    • Re: "But that was never the cause nor justification for Zionism aside from the ideology of fringe movements."

      Everyday I hear America's leading politicians make this claim (without reference to Zionism of course). It is often coupled with rhetoric about persecution of Jews through the ages, especially the Holocaust. This combo is in fact the going mantra narrative in America.

    • Also, there's no recorded Jewish history for centuries either by any world-accepted historians, such as Josephus (sic?).

    • Re: "The claim that Jews and their descendants can live in other countries for thousands of years and still return and assert a superior claim to Palestine, based upon religious superstitions and sentimental bullsh*t is the absurdity in this case."

      Absurd is the right adjective for said claim. Imagine if every ethnic group in the world made this claim, and had the economic power and lack of mental, ethical, moral integrity to pursue it? Kant.

    • Similarly, by pointing out selective periods and places where historically--going back as far as biblical times to the beginning of modern times, that the Jewish community was not only tolerated by the PTB at the time, but given special privileges not afforded the vast majority of the local populace in a myriad of places, offers much to refute the traditional Jewish version of their historic role as always the victim, and never the beneficiary of power politics. World history is not the same as Jewish History. Neither religion nor ideology makes for the most accurate rendition of world history.

    • Re: "In the Arab world alone the amount of land lost by Jewish refugees far exceeds any land appropriated by Israel."

      Was the ethnic cleansing of 17 million ethnic Germans (two million died, fifteen million were displaced, driven from their ancestral homes) due to their being in the wrong place at the wrong time-- a just measure? It's arguable how many Jewish refugees from "the Arab world" were volunteers, but there's no argument at all for saying those ethnic Germans volunteered for their Exodus from Eastern Europe during and in the immediate aftermath of WW2.

      What other state besides Israel claims to represent and act always in behalf of the entire world population of all members of a single ethnic group, no matter how long said group has lived elsewhere, or ever will?

      Do all Arabs think and act like any single state represents and acts in behalf every one of them?

    • I don't understand how anyone can say the land in question belongs to, say, somebody born and bred in Brooklyn, NY, USA, yesterday, or in Poland or Russia a century, or half-century ago, but not to somebody born in that land, with their ancestors living there for many centuries, indeed going back to when the land was called Canaana(sic?), and the dwellers there, called Canaanites, until the Romans called the land Palestine (after the Philistines?).

      Meanwhile, Ms Pamela Olson, a young American woman we all know as one who has long labored to strip away the hasbara bots' work, has had a death in the family--she wrote something about this on her blog, which I think you may like to read--it beats reading some Brooklyn Israeli's settler rant:

      link to .

  • Where is the Bedouin Intifada?
  • 'Commentary' covers its eyes and makes Palestinians disappear
    • Yep, Werdine. I agree with what you've said here. Thanks for sharing.

    • Yeah, well Woody, the truth is not exactly what you've said in your comments here either. And you said your truth as an absolute, while I did not. For those who care, here's some more info:
      "In total, the Soviets received some 17 million tons of lend-lease, of which over 15 million were US.

      The first question, i.e. "would the Soviet Union have collapsed without lend-lease ?", is very difficult to answer for a number of reasons. Personally I believe that it could well have, not in 1941 but during the winter of 1942/43 when the Soviet economy was over-mobilized and the difference between success and failure was very slim, but of course I'm not sure and a good case can be made for the opposite view.

      The second question, i.e. "How important was lend-lease to the rest of the war ?" was examined by Mark Harrison in his "Accounting for War". He assumed that the Soviets would keep civilian consumption at the historical levels, the result being that for 1942-45, in terms of defense outlays, the Soviets would be short of 2.1% of GNP but they would still have 1.6 % (vs. 6.5% with the Lend Lease) left in gross investments and 2.7% (vs. 4.2 % with the Lend Lease) in civilian surplus.
      In other words, historically between 1943-45 the Soviets devoted the same (and by the end of the war larger) amounts of resources to rebuilding their country than they received from lend-lease, so Harrison assumes that they would simply make their population suffer a while longer and delay the rebuilding of the country until after the war.
      I have my problems with that theory, particularly the fact that rebuilding infrastructure in the liberated areas served a military purpose (supply lines) and not just a "civilian surplus + gross investment" one. However, it should be noted that the Soviets in 1942 weren't sure exactly how far they could safely go in pressuring their own population, and that the Soviet population received smaller levels of civilian surplus in 1943-44 than in 1942.
      So I think it can definitely be considered a fact that the historical Soviet war effort could be increased in an emergency, particularly in 1943-45. Which is one of the reasons why I don't buy the "Germans maintain a stalemate on the Eastern Front in 1943-45" scenario, but that's another story. ://

    • Yeah, Werdine, no doubt the USA contributed a lot to the USSR campaign against German forces. It was facile to equate that manufacturing contribution to the defeat of Germany with the last minute USSR's joining the attack on Japan. Re the detail about tanks, the Tiger Tank was the best, but replication was minimal compared to the comparatively crappy Sherman, which made up for its inadequacies by numbers; the T-34 was, in contrast, both a match for the
      bulk of the German tanks (but not the Tiger) in lethal quality, and in quantity, was also far superior. Some say US trucks alone given to Stalin turned the tide of war. The famous Russian AK rifle was modeled after a German assault rifle, which itself was made during the latter part of the war to counter the Russian "burp gun." And, as always, as with Napoleon, that Russian Winter...

    • Some really ancient stuff:
      RE making Palestinians disappear. This single page on the history of Judaism is obliquely related?
      link to
      Is it it somehow seminal?

      Is there a trajectory?

      Why does it somehow seem so post-modern while yet it is ancient?

    • LOL
      Israel wants Fayad replacement or it won't play for peace. Imagine if the West had refused recognition of any Jewish state until the Jews got rid of their implementing radical terrorists?

    • Seafoid, "What if the West decides that the land belongs to the Palestinians after all?" Oh yeah. In the end, the Jews, despite their heavily disproportionate power in terms of world finance, a belated exceptional gift from the traditional anti-usury law of both Christians and Muslims, and no matter how much they profess independence, are subject to the World as a Whole, which is mainly, non-Jewish. In the end, this is not to be escaped. And neither is the World's sense of fairness, universal ethics, universal individual rights. I don't know what the world will look like after Israel attacks Iran, but there is no escaping (1) the Jews will will do all they think needed to assure their own survival in this secular world, as Jews, and (2) eventually, if what is done by the Jews to insure their survival as Jews in their own minds, threatens non-Jewish interests, this Jewish will, will always be met with contrary force to the extent that Gentiles want to live in this world as Gentiles too.

    • Yes, seafoid, but the Israeli Gotterdammerung includes America's--we are so enmeshed. It's a real Freudian clinical situation between American "pro-Israel" advocates and moneybags, compounded by Christian fundies--when you add together (1) the American bribe system of political campaign finance (Adelson et al), (2) Jewish Zionism; (3) Christian Zionism; (4) Ike's referenced military-industrial complex (updated with ivy league academia & heimat (HS) security laws, you get, via attack next on Iran: WW3: Gotterdammergung, 2012.

    • Kathleen, good luck in ferreting out who is controlling CSPAN WJ guest appearances. They are Zionists, for sure. Who are they?

    • Chutzpah does not need to be limited to Zionist supremacists. What needs to be done is to link such supremacists with David Duke's line of thought. It's actually easy. Duke is relegated to the fringe of civilized society--time to do the same with Jewish Zionists. Christian Zionists, because the have no Shoah to call their own, must be dealt with as simple religious cultists.

    • Annie, re: "... since the occupation relies on and demands polarizing fatah and hamas on opposite ends of the spectrum then unification in and of itself resists the zionist agenda. going to the UN certainly resists the zionist agenda."

      Exactly. Why shouldn't Palestinians and those who support their very much humanitarian cause support accordingly any wrench thrown in the Israeli-USLackey strategy of divide and conquer?

    • The writing is on the wall. Israel will be the trigger for WW3. Lots of scenarios for this, but that's the single needed finger on the trigger. That finger relies on the only superpower, America. And America is compromised beyond redemption thanks to its political campaign finance laws and the SCOTUS decision equating corporations with living individual human American citizens for purposes of campaign donations. This can be seen very clearly when you look at the most blatant example of how US foreign policy has been hijacked, Adelson and his lackey Newt. They are legal. That's the problem. The arch Zionist Adelson cares only for whatever he thinks will help the foreign state of Israel, and Newt cares only for whatever the thinks will help himself. America is doomed because of a paranoid Jewish survivalist and a very, very selfish Gentile who cares for nothing but his comfort.
      The rest is only a matter of degree, all bent the same way.

    • Kathleen, that's a good summary of how slanted CSPAN WJ has become--the last refuge for free speech on Israel and its Hitler: Iran, has opted to side with Israel's POV, so much for our cable channels, eh? Also, Yochi Dreazen, who was on the show this morning repeated the big lie that Iran has said it wanted Israel to be "wiped off the map." Later in the show, he supported his parroting of that big lie (parroted constantly by all GOP presidential candidates [except Ron Paul]) by saying Iran called Israel "a cancer." I tweeted to CSPAN WJ the correct translation of Iran's president ("will be erased from the pages of time [like USSR]") but it was not mentioned on the show, nor did it appear on Twitter's rolling show log. I also tweeted Israel keeps calling Iran Hitler both directly and in a myriad of ways, but that tweet did not appear either.

    • Thanks, for sharing the link, RepStones. Meh. Tobin has form all right. He even looks like the rodent he is. Commentary is not exactly The Reader's Digest. Then again, subscribers to The Readers Digest over the years have steadfastly maintained their advanced ignorance of the slippage between America's best values and America's foreign policy since the 1950s when The Reader's Digest was in most American homes.

    • I agree, Kathleen, Annie did a great job on her post here. And you hit the most salient point: "no matter where borders are drawn." Perhaps all the Palestinians should get on a rock and shout to the high heavens, "We declare Israel is the state of the Jews now and forever because that is only just and fair given what Gentiles did to them in Europe over centuries simply because they were born Jewish, and so we affirm that Israel is all land Palestinians lived on for centuries except for this rock, which we recognize as the border of our own land for eternity. Can somebody help balance us? As you can see we're standing on each other's heads--"

    • No reason to cheer the fact that both the resistance-orientated HAMAS & the former US/Israel puppet Fatah are now working together as a unity representing the Palestinians people? Why wouldn't anyone who cares about the Palestinian people cheer for the wrench this unity has thrown into the US/Israeli divide and conquer strategy, which treats Palestinian plight as a slightly annoying afterthought to the supreme priority of securing Greater Israel and maintaing its hegemony in the ME?

  • A lull on this site
    • Well, American, the annual AIPAC conference is not far away; Bibi will be speaking at it, and afterwards, with Obama, and Barak will be meeting with Obama's top folks before it. Will even OWS be out front on the sidewalk? What will we see covered in the US MSM? Exactly.

    • Jeff Blankfort should not be banned, among others. Is Phil/Adam taking heat from their new funders and the current bent of more influential young turks within the jewish community regarding Israel-USA, Zionism-secular Judaism? Was the banning of Jeff a career move?

    • Maybe the Atzmon connection is why Jeff was banned? Atzmon is really good in that he knows no (Jewish) sacred cows, but sometimes his language is seen as too easily spun by real anti-semites? Is that why we have certain subjects banned here now?

    • Thanks, Hostage--if anyone wants to know where those fired for smoking cigs in the office building (& their still intact penile empathizers, so to say) went, and what they think about it, that's a good place to start.

    • Taxi, I think Blankfort is a very serious and ethical person. I like this Blankfort a lot. Anyway, I've already been tossed into his camp, rightly or wrongly. I consider that a plus. I don't know anything about him except what he thinks, as per his/her comments on MW.

    • Without having read your link to yet, Taxi, that's quite a bridge you mentally cross repeatedly between existentialism and Dylan Thomas's rage against the dying of the light. "The bones of your brain"? Sheesh, I actually get what you mean. I suspect you've been trying to be less hard on yourself lately. Am I right?

    • Taxi, do we project meaningfulness or meaninglessness into our existence, or is it already there no matter how we try to avoid it? What happened to "play it forward," and that butterfly affect? I do know, if you give me a dollar, I am one dollar richer.

    • I use to have a baby blue VW bug--it was a 1959, & I drove it in college in the late '60s. But the split-rear window bugs were older than that--they even had those side arms that shot when you were signaling a turn, if memory serves. I don't cotton to drag races, especially with VW bugs. Maybe I will drive my Mustang.

    • May I have a vintage split-window VW Beetle instead in working order, and condition? After all, I don't have any debt....

    • Also, Taxi, what do you think of this line of thought/experience?
      link to

    • Emits?

      ear·nest 1 (ûrnst)
      1. Marked by or showing deep sincerity or seriousness: an earnest gesture of goodwill.
      2. Of an important or weighty nature; grave. See Synonyms at serious.
      in earnest
      1. With a purposeful or sincere intent: settled down to study in earnest for the examination.
      2. Serious; determined: "Both sides are deeply in earnest, with passions that approximate those of civil war" (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
      [Middle English ernest, from Old English eornoste; see er-1 in Indo-European roots.]

      Re: "'s all good AND meaningless." You mean sound and fury signifying nothing? I don't think you do, but that's just me-reading your comments over the years?

    • Thanks, Annie. I know you are real. If I was not an agnostic, I'd pray for you. Heck I sorta do that anyway.

    • Taxi, you have good intution. My brother and I do love each other, and we, both lawyers (and both teen soldiers), who came from a hard-scrabble background--our dad was a mechanic, mom a housewife, five kids, do agree on politics. And, yes, Taxi, your description of me as "earnest" is extremely accurate. Not sure how you deduced that from my comments, but it is very true. Must be the mix of lower middle class/working German and Irish in me, combined with being born and bred in USA, and having spent formative years in both rural, suburban, and urban centers her in the USA? Just asking. So, Taxi, you're a "purring cynic?" How did you get that way? I'd say I'm a reluctant cynic. I don't purr. But you may have touched the spot.

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