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OlegR,
You miss my point. I won't analyze personal histories any further but I'll simply say that your response was predictably histrionic. If you're going to mention your own grandparents now, then surely you understand the pettiness of your comments and many many others you've made here at MW.
Except you don't. Which is why it's futile to draw any parallels to the authors story. It implies that you, yourself, share the same morals/ethics - and clearly you don't.
You really are a pissant OlegR.
To speak that way to someone whose father fought in WW2 (and did so heroically), with your whiny knee-jerk sound-bite is beyond belief.
You (along with the other MW Zionist crew) remind of the guests on The Jerry Springer Show. Whenever I used to watch TV and flip past a taping of that crap, I'd linger for a moment, simply to indulge my own voyerueristic need to see people who are really messed up (isn't that why we watch reality TV?). But then my patience gets the better of me.
I'm just too sarcastic for people like you. You have zero self-awareness.
Has Philip Roth ever been interviewed about his politics regarding Israel?
My father is a good man. He is a republican though. He will be forever. He is turning 60 soon. He is the medical director at two hospitals - among other stations and a private practice. Suffice it to say - he works a lot. I call him often and he still finds time to visit me and my sister whenever we want to see him instead of the other way around.
My sister has a better excuse since she is in HS still. I don't but I like my parents coming to see me at my apartment.
Anyways, my point is that my dad won't change his politics. He's a great man though. And ironically has never really 'behaved' (if that makes sense) like a republican (I know stereotypes).
Meaning, he's always been there for his kids and always supportive. Money is not happiness but it does make a lot of things in life easier to deal with and it's precisely because my dad works so damn much and has accomplished as much as he has that I am set for life - as is my sister.
When I think about this older generation of Jews, like the working class who had to make it in America and start families and didn't know the proper English (like Norman Finkelstein's mom) and how to integrate into American society with the still visible antisemitism - I sympathize with their Zionism.
I do because I can see my own parents generation ethnic struggle to make it in America. The difference is that my family and my extended family is not overtly political. We simply aren't. We are family oriented and education oriented. We are doctors mostly and that's about it. Just boring American-Indians after that pretty much.
We have our politics sure, and some of us follow Indian politics (not me, I mean my elders) - but barely and only in passing or as an afterthought. Too busy working. Too busy playing the stock market when we probably shouldn't or buying property in Florida even though we don't travel much lol. Or blah blah.
I love my family so I can sympathize with the normalcy in a Jewish family then the switch that must turn on (that doesn't exist within my family) when it comes to Israel and politics and Zionism.
This post may not belong in this thread
I saw a comment about Barbara Streisand. I immediately thought about how we perceive celebrities and then how their personal political affiliations change our perceptions or them over time.
I no longer can stand Jon Voight after having heard him refer to the Palestinian militants in Gaza as 'barbarians'. That is not to say that these terrorists or that terrorists themselves do not behave barbarically - but, I felt his comments, taken in context with his overalls political identification and allegiances was racist in nature. It was not isolating and laser-bean specific. If it were I would not mind. I felt he was an Orientalist and an extremist - he was interviewed on Mike Huckabee's show afterall.
Anyway, I'm babbling.
How does Carter get money from SA?
Considering the gravity of the situation and scandal, I would not assume this was 'just another day at the office' for good ole' Dr. Hiss.
Who in the field that day was a terrorist and what was the precedent set for such a technological enhancement, Fred? Or is this just an excuse for the Israeli's military-industrial-complex. After all, people like yourself always downplay Palestinian suffering at the hands of Israelis by comparing this conflict to Arab dictatorships in the region.
So let's turn the tables. Israelis have suffered a fraction of what Palestinians have suffered. That is the power dynamic. Just as it was with the Native Americans and the Euro-American colonists who usurped them.
In both cases, neither a Jew from Brookyln or Russia or Europe has better claim to Palestine than a Palestinian. Self-determination belongs to the people of a land and the people of that land were mostly Palestinian Arabs.
And it has only been by continual and disproportionate force over time (sustained) that Israeli has succeeded. Not because Zionism was a worthier or more moral cause. Power does not imply morality.
And in this case as well - the armor plating is an exaggeration. A hysteria. A bulldozer running over a 90 lbs. girl standing her ground is the power dynamic.
Not emphasizing the defensive mechanisms of the vehicle that murdered her - which was there in the first place to destroy someone else's home, in someone else's land.
This will always come back to the root issues not matter how specific we get and in the present we are - it is always about the lead-up to 1948 and the war and the Nakba.
People like you are only faking surprise at anti-Zionists here or maybe you're really unintelligent. We know this conflict back and front. From beginning and (while we cannot predict the future) - sadly, it's playing out like a greek tragedy, so 'to the end.'
Rachel Corrie was murdered. She was visible. You can see it in the pictures based on how far she was from the bulldozer. The jerk who ran her over is not the first IDF soldier to kill or maim an ISM or other international observer or Palestinian or aide worker or activist. This is not a taboo incident.
This is a systemic problem in the IDF. It may not be happening every second but that is not the standard for what qualifies as being termed, "systemic".
Unless of course you have low standards for the world's most moral army.
Once again, why are you defending someone who ran a person over IN A BULLDOZER.
I mean, bulldozers do not go 60 mph, Freddy. They aren't race cars. Don't you think Israeli's best and brightest would have noticed the screaming, horrifying looks on bystanders faces, etc. - or maybe he was listening to some music at the time? Was he eating lunch while driving the bulldozer?
Maybe he was inebriated? Is it illegal to drink and bulldoze in Israel? Or is it ok so long as you drink and bulldoze Palestinians' homes?
Anyways, talking to people like yourself is kind of like explaining what the word 'the' means to a Korean exchange student.
Is he legally obligated to or not? Is it the moral thing to do in YOUR opinion or not? He is still cutting someone's daughter up. Why not tell the parents? It would be simple procedure. Why keep it secretive. And why are you defending him?
Also, where is the proof that he only took microscopic slide samples and not something more substantial?
Was Dr. Hiss not the same Israeli doctor involved in the organ harvesting scandal a few years back?
A terrorist fighting bulldozer? How fast do bulldozers move? Are their terrorist fighting unicycles made in Israel and do you know if I can order them?
Thanks in advance Freddy.
Why didn't he notify her parents and why are you so interested in defending him?
Playforpalestine,
He cited a source. You are now asking 'how' one is to believe in the data he provides.
So consult the source.
Simple.
Perhaps he is wrong. Perhaps he is right.
People who support a Palestinian state or of a completely different context. They are supporting the formation of and the struggle for Palestinian self-determination, civil rights, liberation and freedom.
Supporting Israel in the vein if the term of "Israel-Firster" could adequately be described as supportive of Israel's continued settlement project and discrimination against its Arab minority. And all the rest.
Your bag of tricks is running low it seems. You're down to lame false dichotomies and equivocations.
Really, where's the survey results that substantiates your statements hoppy?
Terryscott
You're not Jewish? LOL
And yet you're a rabid Zionist ideologue who apparently has been doing 'research' in Turkey. What research? You also were knowledgable on news on late 1990s New York City police blah blah in the Orthodox Jewish community or something along those lines.
In other words, 'Terryscott', you're just another sock puppet troll masquerading under another ethnic identity. Just as other hacks before you (Michael LeFavaour/the other identity he made up who's name I've already forgotten/yonira and his various accounts/etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on and on)
As someone who has been reading and commenting on Mondoweiss since before the Gaza Massacre of 2008, I can spot a sock puppet / Zionist troll when I see one.
There is nothing more pathetic than pretending to be something you're not and then using that as a shield for your political ideology.
Once you've failed, you just try another ethnic identity and another story though, right? Research in Turkey? LOL
So in other words Freddy, you can't actually debate anything Hostage said.
Your response is both infantile and sociopathic. Yes, the UN does not have the force to rape, murder, pillage, ethnically cleanse, commit genocide, make war, carry out assassinations, etc etc etc (for more see the entire history of empires you simple-minded cultist).
Dershowtiz's debate with Chomsy at the Kennedy center should elucidate anyone here on his positions on the 2SS.
He - like you, hoppy - are cynically liars but bad liars. If the game weren't so rigged in your favor you'd have lost by now.
That being said, the Dersh more accurately supports a 2SS dungeon. Where the Palestinians live in a bantustan state composed of demilitarized islets, ruled by a puppet government. The Israelis are the jailers - now, before, and whenever this so-called peace solution comes to pass. Doesn't make a difference.
Shmuel is one of my personal heroes. As is Danaa and Phil and Hostage, and the rest of the MW regulars but the Israelis Jews who have been able to break away from the Zionist upbringing in Israel especially.
This woman is not a progressive or a liberal. She is a tribalist/Zionist to the core. Nothing else to it.
A total coward and shadow of a human being.
So Fred, you are offended by MW reporting on pedophilia in the orthodox Jewish community but not about the issue itself. Yet, when MW reports on the Israel-Palestine conflict directly, you are as vile as ever anyways. You will still disassemble along with the other trolls/sockpuppets/rejects like terryscott, OlegR, Mayhem, hophmi, etc.
In this case, you are in solidarity with pedophiles. Disgusting but unsurprising considering you are often in solidarity with ethnic cleansing, colonialism, bureaucracy laden injustice and racism, etc.
What the Irish Zionist (this week) is saying is that, zionists are in solidarity with pedophiles.
Fredblogs,
If someone brings up sexual abuse scandals in the orthodox Jewish community on a blog that is devoted to the Israel Palestine conflict but also deals with Jewish identity related issues, is it being off-topic?
No.
You're doing damage control strangely enough. Why? Do you feel solidarity with pedophiles because they are Jewish and/or zionists?
Sick.
It's really disgusting that in the case of even sexual abuse in the Jewish community, you have nothing else to say but accuse MW of being anti-Israel.
You're a pathetic cultist.
And you're Irish.
Krauss is right on mark though.
Asians do self-segregate.
I am Asian. I never really identified as Indian though. The few times in my life when some racist made me feel alien, were when I most felt like the Other.
But yea, it's very clique-ish in America. My friends in high school were mostly minorities - Black, Hispanic, Korean, etc.
I have dated mostly white girls though. And I notice that Indians - both male and female, have white friends usually. That isn't a rule though. I'm upper middle class and so were these other Indians. So that's who they had around them. Upper middle class white people.
My sister went to a Passover and has a Jewish friend. She told me about it because she knew I was passionate about the Israel-Palestine conflict. She's much younger than I so her politics are non-existent. I do recall that she had some Christian fundie history professor who referred to the Palestinians as 'the Arabs' this and that in her class when she spoke up in their defense one day. She was a freshman in HS at the time.
My old HS. One of the top HS (private schools) in the country. But I heard the idiot got fired because of too many complaints or something.
Anyway, Krauss is right. Personally, the creator of this lame show should not change a thing. Her life lacks minorities and the show is her life (to a degree).
People want to see the yuppie/hipster girl/guy in their 20s living in the big city with relationship problems but only through the edgy "HBO" ('no limits') lens.
It's tacky as hell. Judd Appatow is getting stale. This stuff is not real. It's as contrived as a shitty sitcom like Friends.
But people eat it up.
I mean, in India people love those horrible musicals (that I had to watch growing up, with my parents). No one wants to see the real India.
Maybe no one wants to see real America. Or maybe we aren't making the choices because it's not a simple matter of 'if you can will it' kind-of-choice.
Smd,
You have sympathy for people of color so long as they don't infringe on your Jewish only country club built on the ruins of Historic Palestine.
Great post.
I thought immediately that the cast of girls would be a mixture of WASP and liberal Zionist Jews (which isn't stated anywhere but it's a damn given at this point - I mean who are you kidding). Basically, our yuppies.
So hoppy is saying that it's antisemitic to point out that Zionist Jews ally themselves with antisemites, racists and bigots.
Thanks for clearing that up.
What hoppy is saying is that it's antisemitic to imply that Zionist politicians can't be blatantly loony hypocritical racists and bigots who associate with blatantly hypocritical racists and bigots.
Stop singling out Israel! Wahhhhh Wahhh!
Antisemitism - as it is abused by Zionist charlatans like yourself, mayhem - is simply people/institutions that Zionism persecutes/hates.
And of course Jews bare some responsibility for antisemitism. To think people hate Jews for no apparent reason is absurd. That doesn't legitimize irrational generalizations but it does explain the origin of hatreds.
Antisemitism is not unique and neither was the Holocaust. Jews are not unique snowflakes either. We are all human beings and made up of the same matter. Get that through your thick skull.
Actually, people like you impugn on the activism of non-Jews and Jews alike when it comes to Israel. Of course, if it's pro-Palestinian politically speaking or more accurately, pro-human rights/pro-common sense - then you will change the subject to X/Y/Z country and harangue the activist for being an activist on the issue you care the most about.
hophmi said:
Really? That's what is being said here in some variation?
This is your only argument - in one form or another - against MW, in it's entirety (and in defense of Israel and Zionism, and your own pathology).
Go outside, get some sun-light, get a hobby, get a girlfriend, get a life. You're such a predictable, cartoon villain come-to-life.
That's even worse.
Didn't an Israeli Jew sue an Israeli Arab for rape because she was convinced he was Jewish? LOL
What does BDS have to do with your stale talking points hoppy?
The piece process was never going anywhere anyways and Hamas was nurtured by Israel in the first place as a counter to the secular PLO.
Israel has always been the problem. The power dynamic of this conflict is self explanatory and no one needs to get into the specifics of BDS to understand that it is Israel and its cultist supporters like yourself at fault.
Hophmi said:
What the 'mainstream' recognizes as antisemitism and what is recognized as mainstream is a point of view unto itself.
You consider the American press to be unbiased compared to the UK press precisely because of how they (European press) treat Israel.
Earlier in this thread you rattled off a bunch of other issues you supposedly care about other than Israel. But none of that matters. You only give a damn about this issue. It's the only issue that shows you for the crazy that you are. LOL
sean,
hophmi is the same clown who tried to tell us a snake colored as the Palestinian national flag was not a hateful depiction of Palestinian national identity.
hophmi is the same clown who called Palestinians - in their entirety - Nazis, by slippery sloping verb-noun-the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
He is a side-show. The few token Zionist commentators on MW who are allowed to say whatever because the truth is that Zionism is a joke. It has prevailed only through money, fanaticism, violence, and emotional blackmail and a conflation of political interests.
If it were to up to a true 'war of ideas'? Well, take a look at these sophist fools, hophmi and fredblogs and all the rest.
Cherish your Jewish whatever. I'm all for it. Just don't inflict it on another group of people and don't codify it into law that discriminates against other ethnic groups.
All discussion here pertains to the Israel-Palestine conflict and comes back to the Nakba.
The on-going Zionist colonial project.
Izik,
Stop using murdered Syrians to mask the murdered Palestinians.
You don't give a damn about anyone outside of your tribe. You are a racist and a hypocrite and are on this blog with a hateful agenda that any rational person can see.
"the Jewish people" should follow your own rules and get the hell out of historic Palestine or at the least, out of the occupied Palestinian territories.
Fredblogs is a fascist.
What you just wrote does not compute with him.
The protesters are troublemakers to him. That's something fascists say.
What a cartoony thing to say. LOL
Nima you have an excellent bullshit detector. Zionist sockpuppets who have been banned often resurface here under various new identities.
Its pathetic but funny too. Glad you took the time to reveal Hamishe_Sabz for the troll that he his.
I think WJ has come full circle and is now our new resident Richard Witty.
Congratulations kiddo, you're all grown up!
Hophmi,
Who is predominantly reporting on this story and who is perpetuating the meme of '200 Jewish students' (a lie).
It's not a Jewish media conspiracy in the way you want to nail your political opponents as antisemites. But nevertheless. The players are almost all Jewish and the ones perpetuating the tag line are also almost all Jewish.
Roflolololol@ " the onion "
As to the rest of your article Matt, our zionist shortbus insist on making analogies to America only when it serves their interests (ie blah blah imagine if Mexico were lobbing rockets at Texas).
So when you add some context to said analogy like, oh I dunno, maybe we were occupying and colonizing Mexico for fifty years and killing them at a ratio of 10 to 1 and it was only in the last ten years of the conflict that you could say that any rockets were being lobbed anyway and that these rockets were more or less worthless in and of themselves - not even relatively speaking.
Etc etc
Every comparison = Israel loses.
Any empirical approach to this conflict = Israel loses.
Only when you employ racism and sophistry (tough neighborhood, it's complicated, plenty of Arab countries for the Palestinians to migrate to, blah blah) does Zionism fly.
I don't know any Jews personally and haven't been to any Holocaust museums.
I guess that makes me a Holocaust denier!
Read the article more closely and stop sniffing the ziocaine.
Hophmi is so cartoonishly corrupt and lies so effortlessly.
settlers = colonists and thieves
IDF = fascist bullies
Is the guy from Hillel implying Israel doesn't demolish Palestinian homes?
And why should a group called 'Students for Justice in Palestine' work on every other issue except Israel-Palestine? They are a Palestinian solidarity group. That's the point.
More proof that it's not the nature of the criticism - it's ANY criticism.
So they got upset that people were put in the shoes (to a small extent) of a Palestinian. Oh no!
It's like the Zionists groups censoring the Palestinian children's art exhibit or that Canadian Zionist group TRYING to but failing, to censor a book about a Palestinian girl.
Or angry Zionist students protesting Edward Said being mentioning in a standardized test for their school.
It's all censorship and framed as 'fighting the delegitimization of Israel'.
In fact, these Zionists groups are the ones singling Israel out. They single Israel out because to them, Israel cannot be criticized (for all practical purposes, criticism is not 'we live in a tough neighborhood' or 'we aren't a perfect country' - LOL).
Cultists.
This is horrible.
Israel will simply bomb Gaza sometime soon and kill her in the bombing. Mark my words.
When you rig the game, you decide the outcome.
But hey guys, blah blah blah China! Why are you focusing on Israel! Antisemites!
LOL
Ben Adler's argument is air-tight!
When has Beinhart had to defend his views in a meaningful debate?
Not with other Zionists. But with Palestinians and anti-Zionists.
He is a privileged American Jew and is happy in his Zionist bubble, only wanting his Zionism to be given a makeover.
Newclench said:
Palestinians are not foreign to the land. Your brethern are.
There was a tiny amount of Jews in the land and the rest flooded Palestine and eventually USURPED the indigenous population.
That is what happened. Not the other way around.
The context is completely different. Palestinians are not recent immigrants. You are.
What?
Awesome.
She's right. US policy and 'values' are contradictory when it comes to the ME, but especially in relation to Israel and the Palestinians.
The one-sided, mindless support for Israel's colonial project and apartheid policies are not in line w/ the values which America exemplifies (as a slogan though, since all of these 'values' are never absolute and come from un-democratic beginnings).
That tension and that conflict created these values. It is who we are when we're at our best. A standard we want to rise to continually. In that sense, Israel does not have anything in common with us.
Their standard is low and will always be low. They want to maintain a fixed Arab minority that will always be institutionally and socially discriminated against. To elevate the status of the Israeli Arabs to that of the Israeli Jews would be to end the Zionist project of a country club for Jews in the heart of the Arab world.
Awesome Alec. Looking forward to more optimization like this.