Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 4818 (since 2009-09-20 02:36:35)

Cliff

I am a graduate student who is interested in the Israel Palestine conflict.

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  • My spirit is American (a religious manifesto)
    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 7:05 pm

      Actually people ARE talking about him.

      And the fact that you continue to troll this anti-Zionist blog, armed with nothing more than whiny cry-baby antics and delusion is a testament to his recent waves.

      Shouldn't you be boycotting Israel for dealing w/ China and supporting apartheid SA, hoppy?

      Or is the rest of the planet cynical, only?

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 7:01 pm

      hophmi said:

      It’s the BDS movement who is selectively choosing Israel for a boycott while ignoring human rights violations elsewhere on the flimsy theory that it’s because Israel gets US aid, which is not an argument.

      Why is the BDS movement obligated to boycott X, Y, and Z country to appease racist, Zionist fascists like yourself?

      Are you telling the Palestinians under occupation that they should boycott blah blah if they want to boycott the country occupying and colonizing them? LOL

      You are so fanatically stupid, it's sick!

      This is a Palestinian solidarity movement, hence it focuses on an issue relevant to PALESTINIANS.

      You still haven't proven that the people who support BDS, are silent or ignore other human rights abusers.

      hophmi said:

      I won’t dignify this kind of ridiculous argument.

      You won't dignify it? In this same thread you are putting PERPETUAL blame on the entire planet for not 'saving the Jews' during the Holocaust. LOL

      While at the same time ignoring the fact that Israel is a serial human rights abuser and supporter of apartheid (as well as being an apartheid State itself).

      In another thread (or maybe this one; I lose track of your one-trick-pony hysteria), you say 'other countries deal w/ China wah wah' - so does Israel.

      Your argument is filmsy, nonsensical and mind-numbingly idiotic.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 6:55 pm

      So in other words hophmi, you have no f-ing clue how many actually serve in the army.

      How do you know they are welcome to serve in the army? What does that mean?

      It's not an issue of what I think Israel should do. The probable reason why Israel does not conscript the Palestinians in Israel, is the same reason it ruled them under martial law until 1966. They are not Zionists. They are considered a fifth column - and will continue to be viewed (and treated) as such.

      It means absolutely NOTHING that some Israeli Arabs and Bedouins serve. Nothing. Until they are treated equally and fairly, and given the same 'privileges' as Jews, no one could give a shit that some of them police the Palestinians in the OT along w/ Zionist Jews.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 5:19 pm

      Hophmi,

      How many Israeli Arabs serve in the army?

      How many Bedouins serve in the army?

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 5:17 pm

      Hophmi, you made some absurdly indignant comment about 'the world'. And I countered with the reality that your racist, apartheid State has supported other racist, apartheid States.

      I'm not constructing a fairy-tale image of Israel's nobility. You are - by 'blaming' 'the world' for the Holocaust (carrying over into the present-day and most likely the foreseeable future so long as you have to defend the Zionist colonial project).

      Who is the BDS movement, hophmi, and where is your proof they have remained silent on human rights abuses elsewhere?

      LOL

      Let's get one thing straight. BDS is supported by Palestian civil society. The oppressed people support this movement. You are railing against supporters of Palestinian human rights. Hence, you don't care about human rights in principle. You simply use X,Y, and Z country as a human shield for Israeli criminality.

      It's your own pathetic way of muddying the water. It's not that you think the criticism is 'one-sided' - its that you and your cult, cannot tolerate any kind of meaningful criticism and any kind of meaningful non-violent action against Israeli crimes.

      That is one of the reasons activists are working to implement BDS.

      Why should any Palestinian solidarity activist be a one-person Amnesty International? Or HRW? Or UN?

      In fact, these same NGOs are dismissed by you and your cult when they document human rights abuses committed by Israel. So why should anyone try to emulate such anti-Israel organizations?!

      You don't have any proof that someone who supports BDS against the apartheid and racist State of Israel, is by definition, silent on the crimes committed by other human rights abuses.

      You are a troll.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      You call me a hypocrite based on an assumption.

      I don't read Latuff.

      There, now try again you failure.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 4:45 pm

      As usual, you're ignorant.

      Let's reiterate Woody's salient rebuttal:

      What an amazingly stupid comment. Respect for human rights is not set at “zero” when a state is founded. The Israelis in 1948 had the same examples that the Americans in 1948 had, and accomplished more in 15 years than the Israelis have in three generations.

      The Saudis have no substantial Jewish population (if any at all AFAIK) whereas the Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are native to Israel-Palestine and predate their European usurpers.

      The truth is that the majority of Israeli Arabs - a vast majority - do not serve in the army. What percentage of Bedouins serve in the army?

      And you were predictably unable to answer my underlying point - that in spite of your bullshit framing, Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are not Zionists and are not recent immigrants (like most of your fellow Zionist Jews).

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm

      Seanmcbride is not an antisemite.

      You on the other hand are an anti-Arab racist and Islamophobe and should be banned for constantly spewing hysterical bullshit and slander in ever one of your comments.

      You are the same clown who denied the racism in a depiction of Palestinian national identity as a snake up against 'Captain Israel' - lol.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 4:00 pm

      Hophmi said:

      Most of world stood silent when 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, so I don’t really give much weight to world opinion.

      Most of world does business with China, so I can’t say most of the world has much credibility when it comes to human rights.

      Your sense of entitlement and indignance (at what, no one will ever know) is disgusting as usual.

      Israel supported apartheid SA. The end - the sky is falling, there is no morality! Oh wait, it's ok for Israel to shatter this moral consistency repeatedly but not 'the rest of the world/most of the world.'

      Did you forget your pills this morning? Climb down from the chandelier.

      Israel does business with China. To much controversy actually:

      In early 1992, for example, the George H.W. Bush administration accused Israel of illegally "transferring" to China the Patriot anti-missile system, which the Pentagon deployed in Israel during the Kuwait crisis.[5] Not satisfied with the Israeli denial, State Department inspector general Sherman Funk sent a team to Israel to investigate the allegations.[6] While investigation failed to find a "smoking gun," the damage was, nevertheless, significant.

      Successive directors of the Central Intelligence Agency, most vocally Robert Gates[7] and R. James Woolsey, have voiced suspicion over Israel's dealings with China. Testifying before a Senate committee in October 1993, Woolsey said, "We believe the Chinese seek from Israel advanced military technology that U.S. and Western firms are unwilling to provide."[8]

      In 1994, U.S. media reports accused Israel of unauthorized transfer of technology associated with the Lavi jet fighter to China.[9] While Israel Aircraft Industries developed the light combat aircraft as an Israeli venture, it relied on U.S. financial support and technology transfers for such key components as the engines. The cancellation of the project in August 1987 resulted in military industry layoffs. The Israeli government looked to Chinese demand for technology to upgrade its F-10 fighters as an opportunity.

      In October 1999, President Bill Clinton formally opposed a deal for the Phalcon airborne early warning and surveillance systems on the grounds that the technology that Israel hoped to sell to China undermined U.S. security interests in the Asia-Pacific, especially across the Taiwan straits.[10] In July 2000, and in the wake of months of U.S. threats and intimidation, Prime Minister Ehud Barak announced the deal's cancellation.[11] That the crisis escalated despite Clinton's appreciation over progress in the peace process underlined the seriousness of U.S. concerns.

      link to meforum.org

      Is that the best hasbara you can come up with hoppy?

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 1:12 pm

      Hophmi said:

      Have you taken a look at the rest of the Middle East, where the countries are around Israel’s age?

      Wow, just a second ago you were using the US as an example and now you're using the surrounding Arab states. Many of which are dictatorships that were supported by Israel and the US to keep the national aspirations of the people there in check.

      You're on a roll today hoppy, literally everything you've said so far is bulkshit.

    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 1:09 pm with 11 replies

      Hophmi said :

      You should praise a democracy that faces challenges our never did and has a record of amazing achievements under the circumstances. These American achievements you speak of took nearly two centuries. Israel has achieved most of them in 60 years.

      The IDF has Jewish, Christian, and Muslim soldiers. Most Arab soldiers choose not to serve.

      The Knesset has several Arab representatives.

      LOL

      How many Muslims are in the IDF? If there are a substantial number of Christian soldiers - are they evangelicals?

      If this picture of Israel you paint is as meaningful as the reality then why are the Israeli Arab minority not convinced of Zionism's supposed validity?

      As usual you cannibalize what little integrity you have left to play up Israel's qualities and to down play it's faults.

      Challenges we haven't faced? Lol

      You're pathetic.

  • SFO Jewish Library (you read that right-- library) cancels panel on Jewish activism because participant supports boycott
    • Cliff April 2, 2012 at 11:18 am

      I agree with the qualifiers here, but I disagree with the blanket statement still.

      Who is defining the parameters for what is and is not acceptable?

      Zionists.

      Zionism is the common factor.

  • Jewish food fight (at Park Slope Co-op)
    • Cliff April 1, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      Phil said:

      As to all the countries that persecute minorities, Adler is right, and the Palestinian solidarity left probably doesn't say enough about them.

      The Palestinian population inside Israel proper is not comparable to African-Americans in America.

      African-Americans are not indigenous to America.

      Native Americans are indigenous to America.

      This is a colonial conflict. Mark Twain hated Native Americans but sympathized with African-Americans. Why?

      He is ignoble—base and treacherous, and hateful in every way. Not even imminent death can startle him into a spasm of virtue. The ruling trait of all savages is a greedy and consuming selfishness, and in our Noble Red Man it is found in its amplest development. His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts. With him, gratitude is an unknown emotion; and when one does him a kindness, it is safest to keep the face toward him, lest the reward be an arrow in the back. To accept of a favor from him is to assume a debt which you can never repay to his satisfaction, though you bankrupt yourself trying. To give him a dinner when he is starving, is to precipitate the whole hungry tribe upon your hospitality, for he will go straight and fetch them, men, women, children, and dogs, and these they will huddle patiently around your door, or flatten their noses against your window, day after day, gazing beseechingly upon every mouthful you take, and unconsciously swallowing when you swallow! The scum of the earth!

      link to bluecorncomics.com

      These groups are viewed differently. It's not enough to be a minority. If that minority has something you want (land) - then you hate them even more.

      I don't understand why people like Adler think every single person who is a political activist, has to be a one-man Amnesty International or HRW.

      Are Zionists one-mn AI/HRW? NO! They think the UN is biased. They think AI is biased. They think HRW is biased. They try to undermine NGOs in Israel. Etc. etc.

      This is a very cynical accusation and it is used by partisans.

      It deserves no consideration. If you care about dolphins in Japan, then you aren't going to be working on other issues. You're going to be working on dolphins in Japan.

      Does that mean you are a sociopath and don't care if a human being dies beside you? LOL

      Zionism and it's 2nd grade logic belong on the playground. It's all mendacious bullshit.

  • Those who criticize Israel join campaign to 'slaughter the Jews en masse'
    • Cliff April 1, 2012 at 12:07 pm

      I made one comment in that thread. It was unmoderated.

      Within maybe 5 minutes of the post being published, my NEXT comment (in reply to someone) was 'awaiting moderation', rofl.

      And Zionists on MW complain about the moderation here!

      On MW, I get moderated and I'm an anti-Zionist.

      It just demonstrates the moral integrity that Phil has (even though I disagree still w/ Blankfort's banning).

      On this polarizing issue, Phil is fair. On a typical nutcase website lik PajamasMedia, with moderation likely being handled by the crazy author himself - it's censorship for any view that deviates from their crazy insulated rantings.

      I said to them, 'speak this way on American television'. Tell everyone in America that criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Let normal people be bombarded with this narcissism and schizophrenia.

      It rattles people who do not judge others based on whether they are Jewish or not. Normal people who don't make sophist arguments like: " 'the Arabs' have X number of States and 'the Jews' have 1 little tiny State, so it's ok to get rid of the Palestinians and send them packing to Mecca!"

  • Sullivan forces American attention on the settlements
    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 2:02 pm with 10 replies

      That's great Terry. We're all very glad you were able to tell us how great Tel Aviv is. It's 'energy' and 'youth' is something that we are concerned about first and foremost when discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict.

      In fact! F**k the Palestinians, Tel Aviv is 'energetic'! Why have we wasted all our time on unattractive and 'un-hot' things like international law and human rights!

      Thanks Terry. You are a treasure. How many languages did you speak again? I am truly in awe of your wondiferous insight!

  • 'Judaizing' Beit Hanina in East Jerusalem, with backing from Americans
    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 3:12 pm

      Feiner,

      When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew and was murdered for it?

      When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew in general?

      Furthermore and to the point - why the HELL would a Palestinian - whose entire people are kidnapped by Zionism and face expulsion every day for the rest of their collective existence - sell land/homes to a Jew? Why? Israel is already giving their land and home to Jews. Why should Palestinians help Israel get rid of Palestine?

      In any case, your LAZY Zionist meme/point-scoring rhetoric aside, nothing compares to what Israel is doing.

      It's Israel that's doing the occupying and colonizing in case you've forgotten amongst your euphoria of 'returning' to the La-La-Land of Israel.

  • UPDATE: Mustafa Barghouti stable after being struck in head at Qalandiya; Palestinian protester reports Barghouti attacked by fellow protesters
    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 6:08 am with 4 replies

      Firing a missile into a crowded street to kill a supposed terrorist, anticipating many civilian casualties but doing it anyway - is not 'self defense'.

      Showering white phosphorus on civilians is not 'self-defense'.

      Expanding Jewish only colonies on someone else's land and territory for 45 years is not 'self defense'.

      De-developing the Gazan economy is not 'self defense'.

      Shooting protestors in the face with high-velocity gas canisters is not 'self defense'.

      etc etc etc

    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 6:06 am

      giladg,

      The UN is not biased against Israel. Israel is simply a law-breaking State and the resolutions reflect that fact.

      Barghouti advocates non-violence. Ghandi supported the Palestinians.

      The only joke is the Israeli propaganda that justifies incinerating 300 Palestinian children with white phosphorus using the security pretext.

    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 5:04 pm

      Palestinians have a long documented history of non-violence.

      Giladg, why did the US State Dept. cite NGOs who said the IDF acted as DEATH SQUADS during the First Intifada?

      Why did the IDF beat up Palestinian children during the First Intifada?

      This was before suicide bombing. So your blanket generalization and other excuses are inapplicable unfortunately.

      link to mondoweiss.net

    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 4:15 pm with 4 replies

      The IDF lies so effortlessly, especially Leibowitz. She's the same sadist who was smugly spewing textbook hasbacrap during the Gaza massacre. In fact, she was indignant that people were trying to take her to task for the rising civilian deaths at the time.

      Absolutely horrid wormy woman.

  • Video: the Gaza onslaught
    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 7:55 pm

      No, the reason few have been killed is because those shitty rockets are shitty.

      Meanwhile, your fascist 'defense force is shooting fish in a barrel in Gaza.

      Israel kills 10 times the number of children and 5 times the number of civilians.

      There is no comparison on the issue of civilians suffering. This is not a conflict between two equal parties.

      It is a colonial conflict.

      The Native Americans committed atrocities as well, but no one in their right mind thinks the Native Americans were on equal footing with the colonists who ultimately (all but) destroyed them.

      Keep pushing the false dichotomy though. That only works when on a crowd that is as racist as you and/or religiously fanatical.

  • Land Day in posters: a retrospective of the 1980s
  • What Park Slope BDS activists were up against: the full force of the Israel lobby
  • Land Day vs. the 'Jewish State': an interview with Haneen Zoabi
    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 12:27 pm

      Izik said:

      Wrong. The law applies to anyone who is born to Jewish ancestry or converts to Judaism.

      Your response does not contradict what I said. In fact, it reinforces it.

      You must be of Jewish descent (that is the lowest common denominator). Obviously, if you convert to Judaism - you are a Jew.

      link to mfa.gov.il

      A description of the Law of Return would not be complete without mentioning the 1970 amendment, which accords the right to immigrate to Israel to non-Jews who are either children or grandchildren of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew or the spouse of a child or grandchild of a Jew (on condition that this person was not previously a Jew who had knowingly converted to another faith). The amendment was intended to accept in Israel families, mainly from Eastern Europe, where mixed marriages were abundant.

      Izik said:

      There definitely is a Jewish nationality and Zionism is a manifestation of it. It was formed as a result of the failure to integrate Jews into their host societies and their ongoing persecution.

      No, there definitely isn't a Jewish nationality. An American Jew who is not a citizen of Israel has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel. He or she is not part of the Jewish nation. He is part of the American nation and only holds citizenship in America.

      An Israeli Arab is not a Jewish nationalist. He is an Israeli Arab citizen of the Israeli nation. Unfortunately, he or she is discriminated precisely because he is NOT a Jew and does not benefit from the institutional and societal discrimination inherent to the Zionist State. Your racist apartheid State privileges Jews over non-Jews but that does not for one second imply that you or Israel or Zionism represents world Jewry.

      And that racism does not imply that there is any such thing as a 'Jewish nationality'.

      Your second sentence is just a lazy and superficial explanation of Zionism's origins. That does nothing to prove the existence of Jewish nationality and it sure as hell does not reconcile the notion of a Jewish nationality with the many non-Israeli citizens who are Jewish.

      Try again. Your hasbara is outdated.

      Izik said:

      Israel is a Democratic state that allows its citizens to the right to fully express themselves and preserve their cultural identity. Arabs in Israel should have (and indeed do) the same rights as any Jew.

      Israel is not a democratic State that allows it's citizens the right to fully express themselves and preserve their cultural identity. If that were the case then there would be open immigration for Palestinian Arabs who are not Jewish into Israel proper in the same vein as the Jewish law of Return.

      Palestinians who marry Israeli Arabs are not allowed to maintain permanent residence in Israel proper or gain citizenship.

      The best example of the inequality and racism and un-democratic values espoused by the so-called 'Jewish and democratic' State of Israel is the Nakba law.

      link to articles.latimes.com

      link to haaretz.com

      High Court rejects petition against Israel's controversial 'Nakba Law'
      Arab, Jewish citizens submit petition against law granting finance minister power to reduce budget of state-funded bodies that reject Israel as Jewish state or mark the Palestinian Nakba.

      I would not trust a fascist Israeli like yourself to tell me how Arabs are treated in your apartheid State. I will refer to the Arab minority rights groups like Adalah:

      link to adalah.org

      And of course, there are plenty of day-to-day examples of discrimination that pass into the memory hole:

      Olmert: Discrimination against Arabs deliberate
      Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says longtime discrimination against Israeli Arabs seeking public service posts deliberate; PM says that complete absence of Arab employees at Bank of Israel 'terrible'

      link to ynetnews.com

      NGO reports -

      Human Rights Watch:
      SECOND CLASS
      Discrimination Against Palestinian
      Arab Children in Israel's Schools

      link to hrw.org

      Etc etc.

      Israel's discrimination of it's Arab minority is well-known and well-documented.

      You are a liar, Izik.

    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 6:23 am

      Wrong Izik.

      Jewish identity is not simply ethnic. It is not simply religious. There are many different ethnic groups that are Jewish. Their commonality is that they belong to the Jewish religion (and if not at present, then they once did).

      You can be Jewish and an atheist but not Jewish without having some previous link (a former relative) that included the religion.

      There is no such thing as someone spontaneously being Jewish but also an atheist.

      You had a parent who was Jewish and atheist perhaps, but somewhere back that parent had a religious link in his or her family tree. That is what denotes someone as 'Jewish' - and from there, they can be Jewish and atheist.

      Israel's Law of Return allows people descended from Jewish families to gain Israeli citizenship providing they haven't converted (I think).

      But there is no such thing as a 'Jewish' nationality. Just like there is no such thing as a Muslim nationality or a Christian nationality.

      Both Muslims and Christians have their own ethnic groups as well. There are Asian Muslims, Arab Muslims, etc. etc. with their own unique cultures.

      Nationality should belong to the people of a territory. What does Jewish nationalism or Jewish nationality mean for the 20% of Israel that is ARAB?

      This goes back to Zionism's original and on-going sin = the land was not vacant and the only way you got a Jewish majority is through WAR and ETHNIC CLEANSING of the real INDIGENOUS POPULATION, the Palestinian people.

  • Israel stands by debunked story of Palestinian child's death
    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 4:34 pm

      The Zionist tweet calls this woman an 'extremist'.

      These words have no meaning anymore coming from Israel and it's supporters.

  • Sen. Cardin tells how he and Hillary Clinton muscled foreign ambassadors to block 'anti-American' Palestinian statehood
    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm

      Judging by your infantile response to Hostage, it's more like the "Israeli delusion" rather than miracle.

      I guess facts contrary to your mythology hurts your brain, hoppy.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 9:40 am

      Good, then stop taking our tax dollars, our diplomatic support, our military support, and our media support.

      Urge your political leaders of your favorite country to cut all ties w/ the US or at least refuse all the support we give you.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 9:38 am with 5 replies

      The settlements prevent any contiguous Palestinian State.

      And all of them are illegal under international law.

      You don't need to refer to IHL anyway.

      If I usurp you, and build on your land - that's wrong.

      The problem is Zionism and Jewish nationalism (such as it is). You are criminally narcissistic and thus, incapable of thinking outside of your ideological blinders.

  • 'We must expel Arabs and take their place': Institute for Palestine Studies publishes 1937 Ben-Gurion letter advocating the expulsion of Palestinians
    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 9:38 am

      When I put the time and effort in my posts (like Hostage), I cite the documentary record using mainstream news articles, mainstream NGOs, and the UN.

      I do not cite some blog's editorial - even if I agree with the editorial.

      The bottom-line is simple, Fredblogs : you support war crimes when committed by Jewish nationalism. I never support war crimes in any situation. My comment history is open to anyone to verify these statements.

      Whereas, we can easily pick out the disgusting things you say daily without even having to swift through the sewage of your comment page.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 4:23 pm

      Of course you wouldn't.

      My sources aren't hate-sites and Zionist blogs.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 3:13 pm

      Hophmi is an American-Jew who hates America, evidenced by his cynical usage of the American polity and identity to play up or play down good/bad traits of Israel.

      In fact, whatever he considers positive about America is strictly through the prism of Zionism and Israel.

      He has called Palestinians Nazis before (using the lie that the Mufti represented the Palestinian people and the accompanying fallacy of guilt by association).

      I'd say 95% of what hophmi says is a lie. He is only allowed to troll Mondoweiss because he is part of a minority of Zionist voices on this site. We need him for 'balance'.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 9:36 am

      pudzionist666,

      Ben-Gurion was talking about intentions. But intentions mean nothing if the end result of your actions is that you ethnically cleanse a group of people.

      Whether the intention is pure cartoon villain hate or solve the Jewish problem by providing land and housing - it was ethnic cleansing.

      Why don't you go up to your European or American, non-Jewish friends (if you have any) and tell them you'd like to get rid of them and their families and friends if they don't make way for Jewish refugees.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 9:34 am with 21 replies

      Fredblogs,

      Your sources - whether they be EldersofZiyon, or Pam Gellar, or CAMERA, or other Zionist hate-sites - are irrelevant.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 9:33 am

      hophmi as usual is dishonest and cites his favorite Zionist propaganda outfit, CAMERA.

      Ben-Gurion is saying that if the Arabs refuse to let people take their land so that Jewish immigrants could live on it, they should be ethnically cleansed.

      And this coincides with what the Zionists did to the Palestinians before the declaration of Israeli Statehood.

      There was no surprise Arab attack on the nascent Jewish State. In fact, the Arab armies acted far too slowly and were ill-equipped and undermanned.

  • Sfard on Israeli Supreme Court ruling on Migron outpost: ‘It’s Our Brown v. Board’
    • Cliff March 28, 2012 at 12:33 am with 2 replies

      He says:

      I don’t want to sound naive, but I truly believe that there are enough forces among Israeli society that would not allow the government to disobey a clear, final, and binding ruling of the highest court in our land.

      Didnt Israel legalize torture? Didn't the IDF try to get human shielding tactics legalized?

  • Brandeis students disrupt town-hall meeting with Israeli Knesset members
    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      Ron Newman said:

      The protesters shouted slogans against Israel and the Knesset as a whole, without specificity[...]

      Really? Do you think think the protesters are against the political aspirations of the majority of Israeli Arabs then?

      Do you think they are against the dismantling of the institutional discrimination against Israeli Arabs?

      Why do you think they were targeting the Arab MKs too? Who were these MKs and what were their politics?

      Or maybe you 'felt' that way.

      Occam's Razor (cuts through Zionist b.s. all the time) - they were protesting against Mr. Akunis and Ms. Kirshenbaum.

      But continue your hasbara song and dance, Ron.

    • Cliff March 29, 2012 at 4:27 pm

      So the IDF and the Israeli government and anything else that fits your etiquette, is 'the enemy entity'.

      Next time when an IDF storm-trooper disperses a Palestinian protest on Palestinian land, let's hope the Palestinians have more than rocks to fling back in self-defense.

      You have never had the moral high-ground in this fight. Just more guns and a better PR machine.

      Zionism is a lie.

  • The Toulouse killings and the false specter of European anti-Semitism
    • Cliff March 31, 2012 at 6:32 am

      Who are these pro-Palestinian figures who espouse the views you have been going on and on about?

      They have been on the lecture circuit? List them please. I suppose Gilad Aztmon is one example but he is has been rejected by well-known intellectuals who have a long track record of supporting the Palestinian struggle.

      If you can't break 5, then you're wasting everyone's time.

      Israel and Zionism is supported, in the mainstream, by lunatics and Islamophobes. To a much higher degree than what you are suggesting occurs in the Palestinian solidarity movement.

      For the simple reason that Zionism is considered a legitimate political movement. Solidarity with Palestinians is still a taboo in spite of whatever victories have been had.

      In the 1980s, Reagan era policy was outlined in a document called, 'The Santa Fe document' - which called for ideological warfare to be waged in Latin America. The Reagan admin. and the Right's intellectual base sought to counter Christian liberation theology with Christian evangelicalism.

      These people are extremists but they are allowed to legitimately participate in the political process. Their ideas are absurd but they get plenty of airtime.

      That is a real example of extremists hijacking a movement (well in this case, usurping a movement to represent the 'true' Christianity).

      The notion that the Palestinian solidarity movement is being hijacked by extremists like Faurrisan (who is a dinosaur) is f-ing stupid.

      I don't know what the hell you're going on about.

    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 12:05 pm

      As usual there is no comparison between Israel and Palestine. In this regard, it's he issue of agent provacateurs.

      Look at the list of Zionists that Annie posted and count how many are part of the Zionist mainstream and are also virulent Islamophobes and anti-Arab racists.

      Compare that to a list of mainstream Palestinian solidarity activists and intellectuals.

    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 9:53 am with 4 replies

      What the hell are you talking about?

    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 6:47 am

      @Woody

      Yes. Every single day, Kate and others document the daily, mundane (banality of evil), and common-place attacks on Palestinians by Jewish fundamentalists. But our Zionist short-bus crew do not rant and rave about them as if the world is coming to an end.

      Not that we should expect anything more of these people. They don't consider non-Jews to be human beings. Just obstacles and obstructions to Zionism.

  • Barghouti and Waskow debate BDS on Democracy Now
    • Cliff March 30, 2012 at 9:47 am

      Bullshit hophmi.

      The US State Dept. quoted, approvingly, the words of human rights workers and NGOs during the First Intifada (BEFORE SUICIDE BOMBING) that the IDF was acting like DEATH SQUADS!

      Screenshots for the lazy:

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      link to img.photobucket.com

      Suicide bombing has always been a blip in the violence of this conflict. It's exotic though and so Israel uses it to demonize the Palestinian people as a whole, culturally (clash of civ/they aren't like us westerners who love life, blah blah).

      Israeli Fascist Soldiers beating children, women, the elderly:

      link to nytimes.com

      link to articles.latimes.com

      Israel has murdered more civilians than Palestinian terrorism has. And Israel's crimes in other areas overwhelm Palestinian crimes because it is ISRAEL that is occupying and colonizing - not the Palestinians.

      People like you want to falsely portray this conflict as if it's the other way around. As if it's the Palestinians occupying and colonizing and murdering Jews then turning around and saying, 'Whoops, collateral damage, we're the most moral blah blah on Earth because we dropped leaflets before incinerating you!'

    • Cliff March 28, 2012 at 12:29 am

      You aren't agreeing wi John Lewis because he is John Lewis.

      You are agreeing with John Lewis because YOU are a Zionist.

      There is no evidence to support the claim you make. It is a documented fabrication. But you trust someone you know nothing about based solely on their word? One of the most important people in history and Zionist sophists like you cannot substantiate this quote beyond 'so and so told me so'.

      You like to call everyone here extremists while peddling your mendacious garbage.

      Get it through your thick skull.

      Most support for Zionism comes from Christian evangelicals. The Zionist lobby has been able to bully their political opponents into submission or ostracism. The media is by definition pro-government and pro-status quo. Your side is much more wealthy and assimilated while Arab-Americans and Muslims can't even have a crappy boring reality TV show without some Christian fundies crying jihad this and that.

      Bottom-line: people don't know what the f is going on in the ME because they get their news in the form of sound-bites and an overwhelmingly pro-Israel slant. People support Israel precisely because of a combination of lack of awareness, apathy towards the Palestinians (who are slandered as terrorists or as you call them, Hitler supporters), and because of anti-Arab racism, the supposed War On Terror, the Christian fundies, the fact that Jewish donors give tremendously to both parties and no one wants to stick their neck out for the Palestinians after the cost-risk assessment.

      Cutting to the chase: the game is rigged and has been for a long time. BDS is a way to undermine sophists like you, hoppy.

      That's why your crying your Zionist heart out. So let yourself believe that Palestinians are pure evil and deserve no sympathy because they refused to be held down and raped by Zionism.

      NO OTHER PEOPLE ON EARTH would allow Jewish nationalism to usurp them in the manner in which it usurped Palestinian society. No one.

      Chalk that up to anther one of your disgusting and racist double standards.

    • Cliff March 28, 2012 at 12:13 am

      Israelis kill more innocent Palestinians than the other way around.

      And while you are apparently American, your comments consistently show a cynicism towards this country. You will debase the United States to whitewash Israeli crimes while simultaneously laud the fact that in America, the media is 'balanced' as opposed to Europe. That and you gloat about the Lobby's success in waging a continually successful propaganda campaign to promote Zionism.

      The Native Americans have plenty of blood on their hands. Yet, in retrospect people sympathize with them.

      They do this because they look at the bigger picture and not the decontextualized violence.

      Israel is portrayed by you as an innocent victim when the power dynamic flips your bullshit framing on its head.

      This is not recent. This is how it has always been.

      Palestinians did not come to Palestine as immigrants and usurp the indigenous population. Your people did.

      You can brag about the power of your constituency within the American Jewish community, hoppy.

      But you are a true villain and a consummate a$$hole. Zionism never has and never will have the moral high ground.

      And even though pathological liars and intellectual crooks/sophists like you leap frog from realpolitik ('there are worse countries!') to identity politics and emotional blackmail ('antisemite! Palestinians supported Hitler!') to paying lip service to the 2ss (because the 2ss is f-ing dead) and issuing vomit-inducing platitudes - you mainly care about image and 'defending' Israel as a moral entity.

      Well, we are all just regular people here. None of us are IDF jailers in the longest modern occupation in history or Christian eschatologists or settlers or Kahanists or members of Hamas or whatever.

      So our concern has always been about. Right and wrong. Your concern is purely about maintaining the dominant Israeli status quo; maintaining the Zionist status quo.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 2:23 pm with 10 replies

      No it isn't Hophmi.

      Coretta Scott King support Mubarek Awad's non-violent doctrine in the face of his inevitable deportation by the Israeli government.

      She wrote a letter to the Israeli president or something. This was reported on in the NY Times.

      Mahatma Gandhi supported the Palestinian struggle. So did Bertrand Russell.

      The notion that King would have been a Zionist and justified ethnic cleansing and the apartheid conditions in the Territories now, is absurd.

      There is no proof he ever wrote that b.s. letter about anti-Zionism = anti-semitism.

      In fact, did MLK write ANYTHING regarding antisemitism?

      And even if he did hypothetically, this was before the occupation went on for decades. This was before the end of apartheid in SA.

      It's like quoting Zuheir Moshen (who said Palestine - and Lebanon/Jordan/etc. did not 'exist'). Moshen was a pan-Arab nationalist. He didn't believe in dividing the Arab world into States. But he died abruptly and did not see the end of pan-Arabism and the occupation as it has become and all the rest.

      It's illogical to project the trajectory of MLK's intellectual awareness on the I-P conflict as you have.

      It is far more likely he would have sympathized and supported the Palestinian struggle as his WIFE did. As Desmond Tutu does. As Nelson Mandela does. ETC ETC

  • UPDATE: Hamas, family misled AP reporter on death of five month old child
  • Hundreds of soccer fans crowd Jerusalem mall: 'Death to Arabs!'
    • Cliff March 27, 2012 at 5:56 pm

      Israel is a colonial-settler State. It has no permanent borders and it has been carrying out an on-going 45-year long military occupation and colonization of Palestinian land.

      The UK isn't doing that.

      Your straw-man is what's 'ridiculous'.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 2:17 pm

      Mayhem,

      When the Toulouse shooter's justification was reported on, one of the reasons was Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

      By mentioning the recent Toulouse shooting, you are humanizing the Beitar supporters. That's fine I suppose since they are as human as you and I. So was the Toulouse shooter.

      But I don't understand why the recent shootings matter - the Beitar supporters have done this before (and have been arrested for it).

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 4:15 am

      Izik is so deeply and fanatically racist that he thinks that when Israeli Jews say they will follow the law and apply it fairly towards Arabs, that THAT is exemplary.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 4:13 am

      I didn't say violence towards Arabs is ignored by the Israeli police (because I have not looked into this issue to know either way). I would not be surprised though.

      Can YOU empirically prove that the Israeli legal system is fair towards Arabs?

      However, I can say definitively that in the OT, the Israeli government ignores complaints by Palestinians and justice is rarely served even when the few complaints made, get through.

      Yesh Din studies are my source.

      And as to treating people fairly:

      link to peacenow.org

      Israeli terrorism gets a slap on the wrist. Whereas, non-violent Palestinian activists get thrown in jail for 'incitement'.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 2:04 am

      Majority where and with respective to whom?

      Since when did majorities matter to Zionism?

      Jews owned 7% of Palestine at most. That didn't stop Zionism from destroying the Palestinian society that existed as the 'majority'.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 2:01 am

      The day Israel treats Jewish offenders against Arab victims equally is the day the occupation ends and colonization ends. Until then, every report that says Israeli police or the Israeli government is "investigating" the incident is lip service.

    • Cliff March 26, 2012 at 1:59 am

      None of those situations are comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict you goon.

      Stop trolling.

      Are any of the countries you listed colonizing someone else's land. Are any of those countries ethnically cleansing the indigenous population to make way for the politically dominant 'group'?

      Are any of those countries practicing apartheid in those territories as it slowly gobbles up the land belonging to the indigenous population and handing it over to the dominant political 'group'?

    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 9:01 pm

      Really?

      What land is Britain, France, the Netherlands and Spain colonizing into the 21st century?

      Where is their 45 year long occupation and colonization?

    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 5:17 pm with 6 replies

      These guys are worse than football hooligans in Europe.

      What European country has been carrying out a 45 year occupation and colonial enterprise, leading into the 21st century?

      Israel is an apartheid State.

    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 5:15 pm

      Asherpat,

      You are implying that because Israeli leaders (and by relation, American leaders and any other 'leaders') have not been tried and convicted of war crimes - that they have never committed war crimes (or any crimes for that matter).

      There have been attempts by solidarity activists in the UK to have Livni arrested upon landing, but the British government changed it's laws so she couldn't be charged.

      This is political. Israel and the United States and Great Britain will never be brought before 'the world' and tried and convicted and it's leaders or political-military architects executed or imprisoned.

      This only happens to people who lose the war.

      Your conclusion is absurd, hypocritical and typical Zionist b.s.

      The UN has issued resolution after resolution condemning the illegal settlements - but nothing has stopped them from expanding. You could even say the UN does not matter (legally/morally/objectively in any sense [primarily academic sense, not forceful action]).

      But that doesn't mean Israel is in the right. It just means there is no political power to enforce the law. There was in the case of Germany, because they LOST the war.

    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 7:42 am

      How often do the riots result in one ethnic group, Jewish Israelis, attacking another ethnic group, Israeli Arabs?

      How often does the mob beat up this latter other ethnic group because some members of it decided to defend a woman and her child after the former harasses them?

      Oh and does the power dynamic of Jewish Israelis to Israeli Arabs - and by relation, Palestinians - mean anything here?

      In other countries, are the rioters also allowed to lord over the 'inferior' ethnic group that they harass due to the institutionally accepted racism/discrimination in their society? Etc. etc.

      It's great that this multi-lingual, Irish racist, 'Terryscott' is showing people his priorities though.

      He's like literally every other Zio-troll.

    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 7:36 am

      What about the honoring of Irgun? There is an Irgun military ribbon and Israel has also commemorated the King David Hotel bombing. The British government voiced their disapproval when this happened too.

    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 9:25 pm with 2 replies

      Are you dense? Read the accompanying Haaretz article and stop being intellectually dishonest and lazy.

  • Israeli military shoots 14-year-old protester in face with rubber bullet
    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 8:22 am

      skhan said:

      But information should be accurate.

      No shit.

      If my first comment in the thread about the Jewish children murdered in France, was about their correct age (being whatever versus whatever, because either way - they're still kids) - then it would be as perverse as your first comment in this thread.

      I can't even look at the kid's face. It doesn't even have to be a Palestinian or anything to do w/ this conflict. It's just plain shocking. Apparently, though you are deeply concerned that he is being reported as younger than he is (by a year LOL)

    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 6:00 am with 3 replies

      Wow. A grown up adult just walks out of the court he is presiding over because of a 16 year old kid calling him 'Mafia'? LOL

      That kid is the truth.

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 8:09 pm

      Fredblogs said:

      [...]to attack small groups soldiers and overwhelm them by force of numbers

      I would tell you to read the article clearly for the word, 'weekly' for the context but you're a fanatical racist so your mind was made up.

      B'Tselem:

      A-Nabi Saleh is a Palestinian village in the West Bank, north of Ramallah. For for more than eighteen months now, every Friday, its residents have demonstrated against settlers seizing nearby land that belongs to Palestinians. The Friday processions held in the village have become one of the main sites of weekly protest in the West Bank in recent years.

      In their handling of the protests in a-Nabi Saleh, Israel’s security forces have infringed the rights of the Palestinian demonstrators in three fundamental ways, as follows:

      Violation of the right to demonstrate

      [...]Excessive use of means for dispersing demonstrations

      [...]Harm to the civilian population

      The article explains each of those violations, and you can read it yourself.

      link to btselem.org

      But the more important issue is whether Palestinians have the same right to self-defense. When Palestinians are being occupied and and their land colonized for 45 years (with no end in sight) - what kind of self-defense is acceptable according to your Zionist etiquette?

      Let me answer that for you: you are a hypocrite and think Palestinians are sub-human. Hence, the only way you'd even think of using the term 'self-defense' is when an Israeli does something bad to a Palestinian. If a Palestinian is being evicted off of his land due to some Zionist bureaucratic b.s. or sent to jail for some trumped up charge of 'incitement' or all the other injustices they face daily - you aren't going to bring up their right to 'self-defense'.

      Anyways, the Israeli soldiers aren't defending themselves. They are shooting people in the face with rubber bullets (or tear-gas canisters).

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 7:54 pm with 2 replies

      Wow 'skhan', it's truly perverse that you are quibbling over his age when the kid has a giant hole in his face (not his mouth, Zionists).

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 4:46 pm with 1 replies

      14 years old. Scarred for life.

      So what's the protocol for rubber bullets? It's only rubber, so they shoot it at a Palestinian's face?

      I guess, if Israeli soldiers shoot tear gas canisters at a Palestinian's face - this is them being the 'most moral army in the world'.

  • Mustafa Bargouti: Jerusalem is at the heart of the Palestinian cause
    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 11:43 am

      Julie76 said:

      are there to “humiliate”.

      People like you use the security pretext for everything. Israel is much more UN-SECURE transplanting it's population into enemy territory and holding that enemy population hostage for 45 years.

      Why aren't you railing against the Israeli government for colonizing Palestinian land?

  • The video that pushed Peter Beinart to speak out against the occupation
    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 8:18 am

      giladg said:

      If the tears of a child are the benchmark for deciding right or wrong and if I were to show you a video of a Jewish child crying at the funeral of his father, would this bring you to speak out against Palestinians?
      And if the father in the video was a killer and broke the law, would the tears of his child have any bearing on the need for him to be arrested?

      Are you suggesting that the power dynamic between Israelis and Palestinians is on equal footing?

      Palestinians are being colonized. Not Israelis. Palestinians are being occupied for almost 50 years by a foreign enemy. Not the Israelis.

      There is no comparison between the Israelis and the Palestinians on the issue of personal and national suffering.

      Israel is practicing apartheid and colonialism in the Occupied Territories.

  • One crazed murderer sparks Zionist calls for European migration to Israel
    • Cliff March 25, 2012 at 12:20 am

      What about the German-Egyptian woman, who was stabbed to death in front of her son and husband in court by the Islamophobe she was accusing of harassment?

      She was pregnant as well.

      link to guardian.co.uk

    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 11:13 pm

      Mayhem,

      'Muslims in Europe' are not making it 'impossible' for Jews to live normal lives.

      No amount of Zionist blog sites or unsubstantiated editorials in the JPost will be able to support that sweeping generalization.

      And saying 'Muslim sympathizers' is purely Islamophobic and violates MW's commenting policy:

      1. No racist or sexist comments.

      This includes anti-Arab, Islamophobic and anti-Semitic comments (and yes, Christian-bashing too). This includes comments that disparage, intimidate or attack a person based on perceived ethnicity or gender.

    • Cliff March 24, 2012 at 11:59 am

      Mayhem,

      The issue is not whether or not Muslims are capable of hurting a fly or not.

      The issue was whether your claim that Jews are pretending to be Muslims to avoid harassment was true.

      And despite your verbiage, your source was only one article. One article that provided not citation for the claim. It's just an anonymous source.

      So I think it's perfectly reasonable to remain skeptical.

      After all, people like you dismiss the countless reports by NGOs and the UN regarding the apartheid analogy - reports that are substantiated.

      Yet, you expect us to believe some random Zionist's OP-ED in the JPost.

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 9:19 pm

      LOL@ the author's "credentials."

      That coupled with his anonymous source = pure sophistry. Typical Zionist.

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 9:18 pm

      What facts?

      You mean the anonymous Frenchwoman, the author of that fear-mongering/hate-mongering article cites?

      Mayhem said that there was a 'bagful of hits' (implying the claim was substantiated).

      But in reality, it's one JPost article, which is in-turn cited by Zionist hate-sites.

      I realize you need to cheer-lead your fellow troll to 'play up' his argument - since his argument, is your argument.

    • Cliff March 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm

      Mayhem, your claim is from a JPost article:

      [...]a Parisian mother related how the fear of being physically attacked by Muslim extremist thugs means that it is “not rare at all today” for French Jewish students to attempt to pass themselves off as Muslim[...]

      link to jpost.com

      Why isn't there any evidence for this absurd claim?

      In fact, the 'bagful of hits' you are referring to are really just 2 hits and both are referring to this one article.

      Unless it can be substantiated, it's just more TYPICAL hateful b.s. from Islamophobic Zionists (like yourself).

    • Cliff March 22, 2012 at 6:01 pm

      @Hophmi

      You have a point. I think (if I ignore all of your other comments ever), that you bring up a reasonable argument.

      That being said!

      Anyone recall when that Egyptian Muslim woman (pregnant at the time) was stabbed to death in Germany by an Islamophobe who she was suing for bigoted harassment?

      Unemployed Alex W. from Perm in Russia was found guilty last November of insulting and abusing Sherbini, screaming "terrorist" and "Islamist whore" at her, during the Dresden park encounter. He was fined ¤780 but had appealed the verdict, which is why he and Sherbini appeared face to face in court again.

      link to guardian.co.uk

      The snippet of the reactions:

      Angry mourners at the funeral in Alexandria accused Germany of racism, shouting slogans such as "Germans are the enemies of God" and Egypt's head mufti Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy called on the German judiciary to severely punish Alex W.

      [...]The victim's brother, Tarek el-Sherbini, labelled Germany as a "cold" country when interviewed by a popular talk show host. Media pundits such as Abdel Azeem Hamad, editor of the daily al-Shorouk newspaper, have attributed the western media's disinterest in the story to racism, arguing that if Sherbini had been Jewish the incident would have received much greater attention.

      The entire article is interesting.

    • Cliff March 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm with 1 replies

      hophmi said:

      The guy belonged to an Al-Qaeda affiliate. Don’t you get it? Israel could be the most peaceful country on the face of the planet. The guy is still going to shoot these Jews. He hates Jews, because he believes in a crazy ideology. He uses the Palestinians AS AN EXCUSE. And you buy it.

      I don't think hophmi is being completely unreasonable here actually.

      The guy was (as far as we know so far) an Islamic extremist. Although his buddies say they didn't get that impression from him. His ties to Al Qaeda are suspect so far. They media isn't saying he WAS an affiliate (as a matter of fact). They are saying he is alleged to have been.

      I read a article where it was said he was part of a Salafist(sp) group but it didn't have more than 15 members and had no track record of anything (was a new group or something).

      @hophmi

      He killed 3 Muslims as well didn't he? How do you know he has a long track record of antisemitism? I don't doubt that he harbored hatred toward Jews. He clearly conflated every Jew at that school w/ Israel and then used Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as an excuse to kill innocent children.

      Isn't he first and foremost - a psychopath? This is not to say he loved Jews and suddenly changed his mind once he became cognizant of Palestinian suffering. I just don't think that antisemitism is his primary identifier. It's part of who he was (towards the end of his short life).

  • StandWithUs manufactures boycott of Jewish deli in Olympia
    • Cliff March 22, 2012 at 11:03 am with 7 replies

      Fredblogs said:

      Since it says she was killed by the bulldozer, but by debris pushed by the dozer, not run over by the bulldozer itself. You are splitting the same hair they are, pushing a technicality. However, they are openly splitting that hair and you are doing so behind the scenes to present an implied strawman argument.

      L O L

      This has to be the best comment by a Zionist in the history of the internets.

      Hey guys, didn't you know? Bullets can kill people without guns. Missiles can kill people without being launched by whatever host of mechanisms.

      Like 'debris', these ordinance act on their own volition! Poor Zionist IDF soldier was just minding his own business when 5 Arab armies attac...whoops wrong meme/lie. I mean, the poor Zionist IDF soldier was just sitting in his bulldozer - which is meant to bulldoze antisemitism - when that mean-spirited debris killed the anti-Israel (this label is often included by slimeballs like Fred to stomach the acknowledgement of her death, because they desperately want to say it didn't even happen/la-la-la-la-la) Rachel Corrie!

  • Responses to Toulouse murders from Palestinian orgs and Jerusalem mourners
    • Cliff March 22, 2012 at 10:10 am

      Sympathy?

      Why does Shingo have to express sympathy TO YOU? That is what you want.

      You feel a sense of entitlement regarding this tragedy.

      I can feel sympathy for the killing of these innocent children without having to legitimize Zionism or the on-going colonization of Palestinian land.

      That is what you really take issue with.

      You're the same person who said a Palestinian children's art exhibit was propaganda.

      So cut the b.s.

    • Cliff March 22, 2012 at 10:07 am

      Shingo isn't being far-fetched.

      Check out the early articles about the Norway massacre over at YNet or Haaretz.

      Granted, Zionist commentators are generally obscene and hateful and all-around horrible at those two websites - this was especially awful.

      They were happy that 'the Leftists' got what was coming to them.

    • Cliff March 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm

      Dimadok said:

      [...]but were is the condemnation or perhaps the rationalization of his acts?

      What do you mean, Dim?

      Killing innocent people because of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians as the rationale? Sure, I think that rationale is bogus.

      But what I think you want is something more. You want 'us' (anti-Zionists) to say that Israel isn't killing innocent Palestinians intentionally OR that Israel get's a free pass when it ENDS UP killing innocent Palestinians because it is 'always' collateral damage.

      I think you want more ideological concessions.

      In a way, I understand. You felt that the Norway serial killer's actions demonized Zionism. That is why you were joyous that some psychiatrist in Norway found Brejvik to be a schizo. You also said that Berjvik would have preferred to hate and kill Jews but since they were much smaller in numbers in Norway - he deferred to Islamophobia instead.

      I think Zionism is bad as it is, Dim. I think Zionism demonizes itself just fine without serial killers in Norway.

      That's the real answer you want, so there it is.

    • Cliff March 21, 2012 at 12:11 pm

      Dimadok,

      This story just broke. Why are you coming to MW for coverage on this issue?

    • Cliff March 21, 2012 at 12:00 pm with 10 replies

      @Dimadok

      Let's compare your response here in this discussion to your response to the Norway serial murders:

      Thank you Richard. Generalization and making overreaching assumptions can go both ways. As another example of it, Brejvik makes Putin as the example of good strong leader, with strong stands on Chechen terror and vakhabites in Russia. Does it mean that Russians are supporting his murders? As a reminder to readers here, Russia and Norway have urgent issues between the countries, resulting in diplomatic confrontations and open conflicts. Maybe it was Russian SVR who conspired with Brejvik to stur the Norway out of its stands. Just think of that for a moment. It is equally wrong as the connection with Israel.

      link to mondoweiss.net

      I apologize for the question, but Alex how about retracting of some BS you wrote about Brejvik link to mondoweiss.net
      ?
      Since the guy is schizophrenic and cannot stand the trial-does it mean you owe some erratum posted?

      link to mondoweiss.net

      Shall we start second round of accusations, combined with wild speculations or just call it a day? Norway murderer was xenophobic and it happens now that now Europe does not have many Jews to fill the gap, and his anger turned towards Muslim population. How is that connected to the Zionism, Alex? I suggest that should he did not find any Muslims, he would invent other enemies of his beloved country? His manifest uses whole paragraphs from Unabomber, fitting the profile of lonesome anti-social individual with obsessive ideas of idealized world. Same people are showing up in Israel or here, “shooting” in all directions, to feel personal satisfaction of good deeds. Good night, Alex.

      link to mondoweiss.net

      Israel condemns Oslo terror attacks -
      link to mfa.gov.il

      Israel expresses its shock at the revolting terror attacks in Oslo, which have taken the lives of innocent victims. Nothing at all can justify such wanton violence, and we condemn this brutal action with the utmost gravity.

      We stand in solidarity with the people and government of Norway in this hour of trial, and trust Norwegian authorities to bring to justice those responsible for this heinous crime.

      Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. We send our condolences to the bereaved families, and our wishes for prompt recovery to the injured. We remain at the Government of Norway’s disposal for any assistance it may require.

      * * *

      President Shimon Peres sent a special condolence letter to the King of Norway and the Norwegian people.

      In the letter the President wrote: “The people of Israel are shocked and share the grief of the people of Norway on the despicable murder of innocent civilians and innocent youth. Our hearts are with the bereaved families who have lost that which is most dear to them. We pray for the speedy recovery of the wounded.”

      Who’s the dolt now?

      link to mondoweiss.net

      -----------------------------

      SOOOOO! To conclude:

      You were quick to absolve the Norway serial killer's political motivations of their connection to Zionism when he was diagnosed as being schizo.

      It had nothing to do w/ his other political beliefs. It was simply his support for Israel and Zionism that compelled you so urgently to absolve him.

      Then you brought up Russia or something. This was an attempt to muddy the water. But all it means is that the guy admired Putin AND Zionism/Israel among other things. Big deal!

      The third quote of yours talks about how the Norway killer was simply anti-social and xenophobic. Yet, he singled out Muslims. You actually dismiss the profundity of his Islamophobia by proposing that he hates Jews more but there simply weren't enough of them around for him to be anti-Jewish immigration!

      Here again, you dismiss his political motivations even though the guy took a lot of time and care to spell it all out.

      And finally, you make sure we know that Israeli politicians condemned the Norway killings.

      Now, I want you to acknowledge that Palestinian politicians have condemned these killings in France.

      Oh and to put the icing on the cake, let's resort to the typical Zionist meme of counting corpses.

      In Norway, the serial murderer killed 77 people and injured 151! That's far more than what happened in France! So stop whining and singling out France!

    • Cliff March 21, 2012 at 11:40 am with 3 replies

      The guy is claiming to be a member of Al Qaeda.

      French Interior Minister Claude Guéant said officers were under instructions to take the 24-year-old suspect alive. The man is of French nationality and Algerian origin, officials said. Multiple news agencies identified him as Mohammed Merah.

      [...]In addition to the attack on the school, the suspect is believed to be linked to the deaths of three French paratroopers of North African origin in two separate shootings in and around Toulouse in the last 10 days.

      Guéant said the suspect claimed to be a member of Al Qaeda and to have killed the students at the Jewish school Monday to "avenge" the deaths of Palestinian children, and the three soldiers because of France's military intervention in Afghanistan.

      link to latimesblogs.latimes.com

      Palestinian representatives have condemned the killings, Dim.

      And obviously, MW is reporting on the issue since you're responding in this thread.

      His motivations are spelled out in the article above. We'll find out more as the standoff ends.

  • Letters of note
    • Cliff March 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm

      Hi Terryscott:

      It was a Kahane disciple, Dr. Baruch Goldstein from the neighboring Qiryat Arba settlement, who killed at least 40 Palestinians in Hebron on Friday by opening fire with an automatic rifle as they knelt in prayer at a shrine held holy by both Muslims and Jews.

      Dr. Goldstein, who was finally overcome and beaten to death by the worshipers, was buried today in Qiryat Arba after a funeral service in which some mourners praised him as a hero and a righteous man. His grave was said to be temporary, and there are plans to move him to the Jewish cemetery in Hebron when tensions ease. Arabs Denigrated at Funeral

      "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail," Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said in a eulogy. At the service in Jerusalem, attended by 300 people, one man shouted, "We are all Goldstein," an opinion echoed across Qiryat Arba by neighbors who said variously that they approved of his attack on the Arabs or at the least could not judge him.

      link to nytimes.com

  • Munayyer: Liberal Zionist sympathy for Palestinians generally ends at the green line. This is moral and intellectual cowardice.
    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 9:57 pm

      Fredblogs said:

      Why should the Jews have to cover the costs of both the Jews kicked out by Arabs and the Arabs kicked out by Jews? Show some reciprocity.

      Why should the Palestinians have to cover the cost for the crimes 'the Jews' committed against them? Why should the Palestinians cover the cost for the crimes 'the Arabs' committed against 'the Jews'?

      Your idiotic no-true-Scotsman variant is designed to absolve Israel of it's actions.

      And 'the Arabs' did not start the 1948 war. And even if 'the Arabs' started that war, it does not justify the opportunistic ethnic cleansing of the indigenous non-Jewish population that took place.

    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 6:13 pm

      Fredblogs said:

      It’s called “population exchange”. It happens all the time. Hindus in Pakistan left for India and Muslims from India left for Pakistan. Jews from all over the Middle East went to Israel and Palestinians should be allowed to go to the countries of their ancestors, all over the Middle East.

      No it's called ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians didn't 'exchange' anything with the Israelis (except their own lives, so the Israelis wouldn't kill them).

      And 'Jews from all over the Middle East' have nothing to do w/ the Nakba. The Palestinians didn't 'exchange' populations w/ these ME Jews.

      And the Palestinians' ancestral home is Palestine. You want to kick them out of their homes and off their land, then lecture them on their homeland being in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere.

      Zionists ethnically cleansed the Palestinian people. Not anyone else. People like you are quick to disassociate Israel from it's crimes or downplaying Israeli criminality by talking about the crimes of other countries or in this case, excusing the crimes altogether by explaining the banality of evil inherent to said crimes.

      'Oh it happens, that's life.'

      Yes, it's convenient to use this excuse when you're the one doing the ethnic cleansing. The Zionist colonial project is not over. It has not ended. It is not simply Israel's Original Sin. It is on-going.

      So when we talk about the Nakba and the 'Jewish' character of Israel - we aren't talking about ancient history.

      Hypocrites like yourself, Fredblogs, are hell-bent on making the Palestinians forget their history or their culture and to deny them their PHYSICAL TIES (not religious, not cultural, not abstract) to their HISTORIC HOMELAND.

      Get it through your skull - Zionism is pure sophistry. The only way it succeeded was through superior violence and through cruelty. That and the fact that your nemesis, the Palestinian people, were virtually defenseless.

  • J Street and Peace Now organize opposition to BDS
    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 12:08 pm

      hophmi said:

      The people who are trying to organize a boycott are not progressives. They are extremists. And they do not have anything approaching mainstream support, even in Park Slope.

      What do you have against the two-state solution?

      You mean, what do you - hophmi - have against the 2SS?

      When have you EVER once criticized Israel on this forum?

      In fact, instead of criticizing the on-going settlement activity and supporting a boycott of products made in the OT - you are anti-BDS and pro-status quo.

      It's people like you who are against ANY peaceful and meaningful resolution to this conflict. People like you know that Israel can run out the clock on any solution to the conflict.

      BDS is not extremist at all. It is the logical response to 45 years of colonialism and the sham of the piece process.

      In fact, when an extremist and racist nutjob like you, insults BDS, then it only affirms why it's a just tactic.

      Go back to issuing your stupid false dichotomies/equivocations you cultist.

  • Israeli academics call for massive attack on Gaza to 'mow the lawn' -- before November election ends the 'opportunity'
  • When good intentions aren't good enough: Liberal Zionists and BDS
    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 4:41 pm

      LOL

      Security concerns?

      And why limit it to Zionist students?

      When students protested that hateful troll, Nonie Darwish, the Zionist crazies in the audience mobbed them.

      Show me a similar incident where the roles are reversed. In fact, there was an incident where some StandWithUs crazies pepper-sprayed JVP members during a JVP event.

      So whether they are hosting the event or attending an anti-Zionist/post-Zionist event, in these cases - the Zionist constituency was the aggressor.

  • Jon Stewart keeps upping the ante
    • Cliff March 19, 2012 at 11:33 am

      There was also a good video Jon did about the US/Israel/Iran. He approached it from an American perspective (for the most part). Was funny and even-handed I thought.

  • Beinart calls for boycott of settlements 'to save Israel'
    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm

      hophmi, if you think Israeli democracy is so meaningless so as to compare it to surrounding Arab dictatorships or conditions in Darfur or Sudan or blah blah - then just say so.

    • Cliff March 20, 2012 at 12:12 pm

      What hophmi means is that, he as a Jew - wants to have one set of moral standards in the United States (equality for all, separation of Church and State and blah blah) - whereas in Israel he wants to be an ethnic supremacist. To live out his racist fantasies.

      He wants a racist country club where he can vacation.

    • Cliff March 19, 2012 at 11:30 am

      Really?

      So virtually no Israeli knows what BDS is? Go ahead and provide some data to back that up.

      And Beinart is well-known in this country within the proper context (i.e., he is not well-known like Lady Gaga is well-known).

  • How important is it to the Times (and us) that Greg Smith is Jewish?
    • Cliff March 19, 2012 at 11:25 am

      Sydnestal said:

      The dangerous meme being promoted on this site is: Zionism is evil, all Jews are Zionists, therefore ….

      No one here has ever said or implied that. Phil's articles about Jewish identity are very personal and the context for his usage of 'Jewish' this or that is always clear and reasonable.

      I suspect that talking about 'Jewish' this or that might offend childish people like yourself though.

      Zionism is a Jewish movement. That doesn't mean all Jews are Zionists or that Zionism is inherent to Jewish identity.

      Talking about 'Jewish' this or that is within the context of the politically organized Jewish community. Not some random Jewish person you happen to know.

      Like I said - if you are so concerned with splitting atoms here, then do you think Seymour Hersh is antisemitic when he says 'Jewish money'? Or the MSM is antisemitic for talking about 'Jewish voters' or some variation on that label?

      link to usatoday.com

      link to online.wsj.com

      link to jpost.com

      link to csmonitor.com

      Oh no! Is the evil antisemitic MSM implying that ALL Jews vote a certain way and thus, Obama has to cater to that specific way? ALL Jews?! How dare they!!

      I don't think this is an issue as long as the people debating it are honest and sincere. You are clearly neither.

      You've already conceded that the notion of 'Israel firster' should only be used when the question of dual loyalty concerns State interests.

      Well, that was always the point. It was always about the preference for one country over another when you reside in the 'lesser' country.

    • Cliff March 18, 2012 at 7:08 pm

      syndestel,

      Zionism is not a non-Jewish movement. It is a Jewish movement. It has non-Jewish supporters.

      The intellectual artifice of the lobby is powered and spear-headed by mainstream Jewish intellectuals, professionals, etc.

      So it's very accurate. You can muddy the water all you like but no one has patience for that bullshit (which you masquerade as 'lefty hippy' whatever).

  • 'No amount of reading and word of mouth could have prepared me for the reality' -- Remembering Rachel Corrie
    • Cliff March 19, 2012 at 8:37 am

      LOL. giladg, you are hilarious.

      Said you:

      We see on the campuses how talks by pro-Israeli speakers are disrupted, often violently.

      You mean like this?

      link to youtube.com

      Mass media has always sided with the Palestinians.

      Prove it.

      How can you possibly get to understand the other side by not allowing them to speak?

      You mean like how college professors who speak out against Israeli apartheid and criminality are systematically forced out of their respective institutions?

      How often does a Zionist sophist get denied tenure? Whereas a truth-teller like Norman Finkelstein is hounded out of the academic community.

      There is no balance in the reporting of the conflict.

      You're right and that lack of balance is in favor of promoting the pro-Israel mythology.

  • Video: IDF caught in a lie about Tristan Anderson
    • Cliff March 18, 2012 at 6:53 pm

      Izik,

      Zionism is not a religion. It is a political ideology.

      And to say Palestinians 'systematically lie' is no different from saying Jews lie.

      Thanks for showing your true colors. I mean, it was obvious from day 1 when you first commented on the video in which your fellow cult members assaulted non-violent activists at the University of Mexico.

      Your political ideology colors everything about you. Even when something black and white as the assault recorded in the video. Instead of chastising the rabid mob, you saved your venom for the abused protestors.

    • Cliff March 18, 2012 at 6:50 pm

      That article is full of typical Zionist B.S. that people like you have regurgitated all over the internet in one form or the other.

      Especially here at MW.

      One gem was this Zionist meme:

      • The Arab League nations refused to accept the partition plan of 1947 and instead declared a war on the nascent Israeli state, creating the Arab refugee problem.

      LOL

      It's 2012. MW has been around for years and there are tons of regulars here who have seen this line repeated by your type without any alteration (i.e., no substantiation because it can't be substantiated - it's point-scoring not debate).

      If you're concerned about the human rights of countries other than Israel than go to a blog about Sudan or Darfur or Syria. I'm sure Arabs from the surrounding countries outside Israel are very grateful that Zionists like you Mayhem - who think a Palestinian children's art exhibit is propaganda - care deeply about their humanity.

    • Cliff March 18, 2012 at 6:37 am

      @Izik,

      Yes I do.
      Yes I do. Providing they don't inflict suffering on the entire civilian population as a means to soften the country for an American invasion (Iraq).
      Do YOU demonstrate against every conflict in the world? I don't have to demonstrate for the Israel-Palestine conflict either though to contribute to various Palestinian solidarity campaigns.
      Yes it does. It also has written about Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan.

      This is an Israel-Palestine blog. To go to an Israel-Palestine blog (presumably any Israel-Palestine blog that isn't Zionist-bent) and ask why it doesn't cover the Sudan or Darfur or WHATEVER else is stupid (slap-stick, stupid).

      You don't care about any of those countries. Neither did OlegR - who used this exact obvious Zionist diversionary tactic before. Neither did biorabbi, who used this tactic but for Libya.

      If you're interested in Phil's reasons for covering this issue then email him or search the archives for his many candid articles on his personal motivations.

      I look forward to answering this same exact question down the line from another predictable Zionist sophist.

    • Cliff March 17, 2012 at 7:05 pm

      Izik,

      You should quantify your sweeping generalization.

      Is there some poll where 'leftists' say they care more about Israel than Syria?

      Go find some proof to your sophistry.

      You are on an Israel-Palestine blog BTW. If you care more about Iran/Egypt/Syria/Lebanon/Sudan/etc etc then why are you contributing to this alleged disproportion by commenting on MW?

    • Cliff March 17, 2012 at 7:00 pm

      Izik is a racist who insists on perpetuating his ethno-religious privileges in Israel-Palestine.

      I don't imagine it was difficult for White Afrikanner to give up their power as well.

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