Yes, most of the mainstream media can recognize antisemitism when they see it and reject the thesis that the Jews led us into war.
What the 'mainstream' recognizes as antisemitism and what is recognized as mainstream is a point of view unto itself.
You consider the American press to be unbiased compared to the UK press precisely because of how they (European press) treat Israel.
Earlier in this thread you rattled off a bunch of other issues you supposedly care about other than Israel. But none of that matters. You only give a damn about this issue. It's the only issue that shows you for the crazy that you are. LOL
hophmi is the same clown who tried to tell us a snake colored as the Palestinian national flag was not a hateful depiction of Palestinian national identity.
hophmi is the same clown who called Palestinians - in their entirety - Nazis, by slippery sloping verb-noun-the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
He is a side-show. The few token Zionist commentators on MW who are allowed to say whatever because the truth is that Zionism is a joke. It has prevailed only through money, fanaticism, violence, and emotional blackmail and a conflation of political interests.
If it were to up to a true 'war of ideas'? Well, take a look at these sophist fools, hophmi and fredblogs and all the rest.
Cherish your Jewish whatever. I'm all for it. Just don't inflict it on another group of people and don't codify it into law that discriminates against other ethnic groups.
All discussion here pertains to the Israel-Palestine conflict and comes back to the Nakba.
Stop using murdered Syrians to mask the murdered Palestinians.
You don't give a damn about anyone outside of your tribe. You are a racist and a hypocrite and are on this blog with a hateful agenda that any rational person can see.
"the Jewish people" should follow your own rules and get the hell out of historic Palestine or at the least, out of the occupied Palestinian territories.
Who is predominantly reporting on this story and who is perpetuating the meme of '200 Jewish students' (a lie).
It's not a Jewish media conspiracy in the way you want to nail your political opponents as antisemites. But nevertheless. The players are almost all Jewish and the ones perpetuating the tag line are also almost all Jewish.
As to the rest of your article Matt, our zionist shortbus insist on making analogies to America only when it serves their interests (ie blah blah imagine if Mexico were lobbing rockets at Texas).
So when you add some context to said analogy like, oh I dunno, maybe we were occupying and colonizing Mexico for fifty years and killing them at a ratio of 10 to 1 and it was only in the last ten years of the conflict that you could say that any rockets were being lobbed anyway and that these rockets were more or less worthless in and of themselves - not even relatively speaking.
Etc etc
Every comparison = Israel loses.
Any empirical approach to this conflict = Israel loses.
Only when you employ racism and sophistry (tough neighborhood, it's complicated, plenty of Arab countries for the Palestinians to migrate to, blah blah) does Zionism fly.
Is the guy from Hillel implying Israel doesn't demolish Palestinian homes?
And why should a group called 'Students for Justice in Palestine' work on every other issue except Israel-Palestine? They are a Palestinian solidarity group. That's the point.
More proof that it's not the nature of the criticism - it's ANY criticism.
So they got upset that people were put in the shoes (to a small extent) of a Palestinian. Oh no!
It's like the Zionists groups censoring the Palestinian children's art exhibit or that Canadian Zionist group TRYING to but failing, to censor a book about a Palestinian girl.
Or angry Zionist students protesting Edward Said being mentioning in a standardized test for their school.
It's all censorship and framed as 'fighting the delegitimization of Israel'.
In fact, these Zionists groups are the ones singling Israel out. They single Israel out because to them, Israel cannot be criticized (for all practical purposes, criticism is not 'we live in a tough neighborhood' or 'we aren't a perfect country' - LOL).
She's right. US policy and 'values' are contradictory when it comes to the ME, but especially in relation to Israel and the Palestinians.
The one-sided, mindless support for Israel's colonial project and apartheid policies are not in line w/ the values which America exemplifies (as a slogan though, since all of these 'values' are never absolute and come from un-democratic beginnings).
That tension and that conflict created these values. It is who we are when we're at our best. A standard we want to rise to continually. In that sense, Israel does not have anything in common with us.
Their standard is low and will always be low. They want to maintain a fixed Arab minority that will always be institutionally and socially discriminated against. To elevate the status of the Israeli Arabs to that of the Israeli Jews would be to end the Zionist project of a country club for Jews in the heart of the Arab world.
The Hamas charter cannot compare to Israeli cruelty and brutality.
While the Hamas charter might say this or that about Israel's illegitimacy - Israel is, in action, destroying what is left of Historic Palestine.
No one - certainly not the Palestinian people - is obligated to accept the legitimacy of the racist, apartheid colonial-settler State of Israel.
That would be like asking Native Americans to accept the legitimacy of Manifest Destiny and the United States.
They need only accept it as a reality (unfortunately for them).
Similarly, Palestinians have accepted that Israel exists. They - and other moral human beings - seek to transform Israel from a racist State that privileges Jews over non-Jews and swallows up the land of the Palestinian people for decades into a democratic State for the citizens of the state rather than a 'Jewish' state.
The Palestinians are not obligated to give anything to Israel since all of the settlements are illegal under international law. However, they have made many concessions.
The 'Palestine papers' leak revealed that the Palestinian negotiators were open to negotiation to the point of submission.
Whereas the Israelis were completely intractable and unreasonable.
And the fact that you continue to troll this anti-Zionist blog, armed with nothing more than whiny cry-baby antics and delusion is a testament to his recent waves.
Shouldn't you be boycotting Israel for dealing w/ China and supporting apartheid SA, hoppy?
It’s the BDS movement who is selectively choosing Israel for a boycott while ignoring human rights violations elsewhere on the flimsy theory that it’s because Israel gets US aid, which is not an argument.
Why is the BDS movement obligated to boycott X, Y, and Z country to appease racist, Zionist fascists like yourself?
Are you telling the Palestinians under occupation that they should boycott blah blah if they want to boycott the country occupying and colonizing them? LOL
You are so fanatically stupid, it's sick!
This is a Palestinian solidarity movement, hence it focuses on an issue relevant to PALESTINIANS.
You still haven't proven that the people who support BDS, are silent or ignore other human rights abusers.
hophmi said:
I won’t dignify this kind of ridiculous argument.
You won't dignify it? In this same thread you are putting PERPETUAL blame on the entire planet for not 'saving the Jews' during the Holocaust. LOL
While at the same time ignoring the fact that Israel is a serial human rights abuser and supporter of apartheid (as well as being an apartheid State itself).
In another thread (or maybe this one; I lose track of your one-trick-pony hysteria), you say 'other countries deal w/ China wah wah' - so does Israel.
Your argument is filmsy, nonsensical and mind-numbingly idiotic.
So in other words hophmi, you have no f-ing clue how many actually serve in the army.
How do you know they are welcome to serve in the army? What does that mean?
It's not an issue of what I think Israel should do. The probable reason why Israel does not conscript the Palestinians in Israel, is the same reason it ruled them under martial law until 1966. They are not Zionists. They are considered a fifth column - and will continue to be viewed (and treated) as such.
It means absolutely NOTHING that some Israeli Arabs and Bedouins serve. Nothing. Until they are treated equally and fairly, and given the same 'privileges' as Jews, no one could give a shit that some of them police the Palestinians in the OT along w/ Zionist Jews.
Hophmi, you made some absurdly indignant comment about 'the world'. And I countered with the reality that your racist, apartheid State has supported other racist, apartheid States.
I'm not constructing a fairy-tale image of Israel's nobility. You are - by 'blaming' 'the world' for the Holocaust (carrying over into the present-day and most likely the foreseeable future so long as you have to defend the Zionist colonial project).
Who is the BDS movement, hophmi, and where is your proof they have remained silent on human rights abuses elsewhere?
LOL
Let's get one thing straight. BDS is supported by Palestian civil society. The oppressed people support this movement. You are railing against supporters of Palestinian human rights. Hence, you don't care about human rights in principle. You simply use X,Y, and Z country as a human shield for Israeli criminality.
It's your own pathetic way of muddying the water. It's not that you think the criticism is 'one-sided' - its that you and your cult, cannot tolerate any kind of meaningful criticism and any kind of meaningful non-violent action against Israeli crimes.
That is one of the reasons activists are working to implement BDS.
Why should any Palestinian solidarity activist be a one-person Amnesty International? Or HRW? Or UN?
In fact, these same NGOs are dismissed by you and your cult when they document human rights abuses committed by Israel. So why should anyone try to emulate such anti-Israel organizations?!
You don't have any proof that someone who supports BDS against the apartheid and racist State of Israel, is by definition, silent on the crimes committed by other human rights abuses.
What an amazingly stupid comment. Respect for human rights is not set at “zero” when a state is founded. The Israelis in 1948 had the same examples that the Americans in 1948 had, and accomplished more in 15 years than the Israelis have in three generations.
The Saudis have no substantial Jewish population (if any at all AFAIK) whereas the Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are native to Israel-Palestine and predate their European usurpers.
The truth is that the majority of Israeli Arabs - a vast majority - do not serve in the army. What percentage of Bedouins serve in the army?
And you were predictably unable to answer my underlying point - that in spite of your bullshit framing, Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are not Zionists and are not recent immigrants (like most of your fellow Zionist Jews).
You on the other hand are an anti-Arab racist and Islamophobe and should be banned for constantly spewing hysterical bullshit and slander in ever one of your comments.
You are the same clown who denied the racism in a depiction of Palestinian national identity as a snake up against 'Captain Israel' - lol.
Most of world stood silent when 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, so I don’t really give much weight to world opinion.
Most of world does business with China, so I can’t say most of the world has much credibility when it comes to human rights.
Your sense of entitlement and indignance (at what, no one will ever know) is disgusting as usual.
Israel supported apartheid SA. The end - the sky is falling, there is no morality! Oh wait, it's ok for Israel to shatter this moral consistency repeatedly but not 'the rest of the world/most of the world.'
Did you forget your pills this morning? Climb down from the chandelier.
Israel does business with China. To much controversy actually:
In early 1992, for example, the George H.W. Bush administration accused Israel of illegally "transferring" to China the Patriot anti-missile system, which the Pentagon deployed in Israel during the Kuwait crisis.[5] Not satisfied with the Israeli denial, State Department inspector general Sherman Funk sent a team to Israel to investigate the allegations.[6] While investigation failed to find a "smoking gun," the damage was, nevertheless, significant.
Successive directors of the Central Intelligence Agency, most vocally Robert Gates[7] and R. James Woolsey, have voiced suspicion over Israel's dealings with China. Testifying before a Senate committee in October 1993, Woolsey said, "We believe the Chinese seek from Israel advanced military technology that U.S. and Western firms are unwilling to provide."[8]
In 1994, U.S. media reports accused Israel of unauthorized transfer of technology associated with the Lavi jet fighter to China.[9] While Israel Aircraft Industries developed the light combat aircraft as an Israeli venture, it relied on U.S. financial support and technology transfers for such key components as the engines. The cancellation of the project in August 1987 resulted in military industry layoffs. The Israeli government looked to Chinese demand for technology to upgrade its F-10 fighters as an opportunity.
In October 1999, President Bill Clinton formally opposed a deal for the Phalcon airborne early warning and surveillance systems on the grounds that the technology that Israel hoped to sell to China undermined U.S. security interests in the Asia-Pacific, especially across the Taiwan straits.[10] In July 2000, and in the wake of months of U.S. threats and intimidation, Prime Minister Ehud Barak announced the deal's cancellation.[11] That the crisis escalated despite Clinton's appreciation over progress in the peace process underlined the seriousness of U.S. concerns.
Have you taken a look at the rest of the Middle East, where the countries are around Israel’s age?
Wow, just a second ago you were using the US as an example and now you're using the surrounding Arab states. Many of which are dictatorships that were supported by Israel and the US to keep the national aspirations of the people there in check.
You're on a roll today hoppy, literally everything you've said so far is bulkshit.
You should praise a democracy that faces challenges our never did and has a record of amazing achievements under the circumstances. These American achievements you speak of took nearly two centuries. Israel has achieved most of them in 60 years.
The IDF has Jewish, Christian, and Muslim soldiers. Most Arab soldiers choose not to serve.
The Knesset has several Arab representatives.
LOL
How many Muslims are in the IDF? If there are a substantial number of Christian soldiers - are they evangelicals?
If this picture of Israel you paint is as meaningful as the reality then why are the Israeli Arab minority not convinced of Zionism's supposed validity?
As usual you cannibalize what little integrity you have left to play up Israel's qualities and to down play it's faults.
As to all the countries that persecute minorities, Adler is right, and the Palestinian solidarity left probably doesn't say enough about them.
The Palestinian population inside Israel proper is not comparable to African-Americans in America.
African-Americans are not indigenous to America.
Native Americans are indigenous to America.
This is a colonial conflict. Mark Twain hated Native Americans but sympathized with African-Americans. Why?
He is ignoble—base and treacherous, and hateful in every way. Not even imminent death can startle him into a spasm of virtue. The ruling trait of all savages is a greedy and consuming selfishness, and in our Noble Red Man it is found in its amplest development. His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts. With him, gratitude is an unknown emotion; and when one does him a kindness, it is safest to keep the face toward him, lest the reward be an arrow in the back. To accept of a favor from him is to assume a debt which you can never repay to his satisfaction, though you bankrupt yourself trying. To give him a dinner when he is starving, is to precipitate the whole hungry tribe upon your hospitality, for he will go straight and fetch them, men, women, children, and dogs, and these they will huddle patiently around your door, or flatten their noses against your window, day after day, gazing beseechingly upon every mouthful you take, and unconsciously swallowing when you swallow! The scum of the earth!
These groups are viewed differently. It's not enough to be a minority. If that minority has something you want (land) - then you hate them even more.
I don't understand why people like Adler think every single person who is a political activist, has to be a one-man Amnesty International or HRW.
Are Zionists one-mn AI/HRW? NO! They think the UN is biased. They think AI is biased. They think HRW is biased. They try to undermine NGOs in Israel. Etc. etc.
This is a very cynical accusation and it is used by partisans.
It deserves no consideration. If you care about dolphins in Japan, then you aren't going to be working on other issues. You're going to be working on dolphins in Japan.
Does that mean you are a sociopath and don't care if a human being dies beside you? LOL
Zionism and it's 2nd grade logic belong on the playground. It's all mendacious bullshit.
I made one comment in that thread. It was unmoderated.
Within maybe 5 minutes of the post being published, my NEXT comment (in reply to someone) was 'awaiting moderation', rofl.
And Zionists on MW complain about the moderation here!
On MW, I get moderated and I'm an anti-Zionist.
It just demonstrates the moral integrity that Phil has (even though I disagree still w/ Blankfort's banning).
On this polarizing issue, Phil is fair. On a typical nutcase website lik PajamasMedia, with moderation likely being handled by the crazy author himself - it's censorship for any view that deviates from their crazy insulated rantings.
I said to them, 'speak this way on American television'. Tell everyone in America that criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Let normal people be bombarded with this narcissism and schizophrenia.
It rattles people who do not judge others based on whether they are Jewish or not. Normal people who don't make sophist arguments like: " 'the Arabs' have X number of States and 'the Jews' have 1 little tiny State, so it's ok to get rid of the Palestinians and send them packing to Mecca!"
That's great Terry. We're all very glad you were able to tell us how great Tel Aviv is. It's 'energy' and 'youth' is something that we are concerned about first and foremost when discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict.
In fact! F**k the Palestinians, Tel Aviv is 'energetic'! Why have we wasted all our time on unattractive and 'un-hot' things like international law and human rights!
Thanks Terry. You are a treasure. How many languages did you speak again? I am truly in awe of your wondiferous insight!
When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew and was murdered for it?
When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew in general?
Furthermore and to the point - why the HELL would a Palestinian - whose entire people are kidnapped by Zionism and face expulsion every day for the rest of their collective existence - sell land/homes to a Jew? Why? Israel is already giving their land and home to Jews. Why should Palestinians help Israel get rid of Palestine?
In any case, your LAZY Zionist meme/point-scoring rhetoric aside, nothing compares to what Israel is doing.
It's Israel that's doing the occupying and colonizing in case you've forgotten amongst your euphoria of 'returning' to the La-La-Land of Israel.
Firing a missile into a crowded street to kill a supposed terrorist, anticipating many civilian casualties but doing it anyway - is not 'self defense'.
Showering white phosphorus on civilians is not 'self-defense'.
Expanding Jewish only colonies on someone else's land and territory for 45 years is not 'self defense'.
De-developing the Gazan economy is not 'self defense'.
Shooting protestors in the face with high-velocity gas canisters is not 'self defense'.
The IDF lies so effortlessly, especially Leibowitz. She's the same sadist who was smugly spewing textbook hasbacrap during the Gaza massacre. In fact, she was indignant that people were trying to take her to task for the rising civilian deaths at the time.
No, the reason few have been killed is because those shitty rockets are shitty.
Meanwhile, your fascist 'defense force is shooting fish in a barrel in Gaza.
Israel kills 10 times the number of children and 5 times the number of civilians.
There is no comparison on the issue of civilians suffering. This is not a conflict between two equal parties.
It is a colonial conflict.
The Native Americans committed atrocities as well, but no one in their right mind thinks the Native Americans were on equal footing with the colonists who ultimately (all but) destroyed them.
Keep pushing the false dichotomy though. That only works when on a crowd that is as racist as you and/or religiously fanatical.
A description of the Law of Return would not be complete without mentioning the 1970 amendment, which accords the right to immigrate to Israel to non-Jews who are either children or grandchildren of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew or the spouse of a child or grandchild of a Jew (on condition that this person was not previously a Jew who had knowingly converted to another faith). The amendment was intended to accept in Israel families, mainly from Eastern Europe, where mixed marriages were abundant.
Izik said:
There definitely is a Jewish nationality and Zionism is a manifestation of it. It was formed as a result of the failure to integrate Jews into their host societies and their ongoing persecution.
No, there definitely isn't a Jewish nationality. An American Jew who is not a citizen of Israel has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel. He or she is not part of the Jewish nation. He is part of the American nation and only holds citizenship in America.
An Israeli Arab is not a Jewish nationalist. He is an Israeli Arab citizen of the Israeli nation. Unfortunately, he or she is discriminated precisely because he is NOT a Jew and does not benefit from the institutional and societal discrimination inherent to the Zionist State. Your racist apartheid State privileges Jews over non-Jews but that does not for one second imply that you or Israel or Zionism represents world Jewry.
And that racism does not imply that there is any such thing as a 'Jewish nationality'.
Your second sentence is just a lazy and superficial explanation of Zionism's origins. That does nothing to prove the existence of Jewish nationality and it sure as hell does not reconcile the notion of a Jewish nationality with the many non-Israeli citizens who are Jewish.
Try again. Your hasbara is outdated.
Izik said:
Israel is a Democratic state that allows its citizens to the right to fully express themselves and preserve their cultural identity. Arabs in Israel should have (and indeed do) the same rights as any Jew.
Israel is not a democratic State that allows it's citizens the right to fully express themselves and preserve their cultural identity. If that were the case then there would be open immigration for Palestinian Arabs who are not Jewish into Israel proper in the same vein as the Jewish law of Return.
Palestinians who marry Israeli Arabs are not allowed to maintain permanent residence in Israel proper or gain citizenship.
The best example of the inequality and racism and un-democratic values espoused by the so-called 'Jewish and democratic' State of Israel is the Nakba law.
High Court rejects petition against Israel's controversial 'Nakba Law' Arab, Jewish citizens submit petition against law granting finance minister power to reduce budget of state-funded bodies that reject Israel as Jewish state or mark the Palestinian Nakba.
I would not trust a fascist Israeli like yourself to tell me how Arabs are treated in your apartheid State. I will refer to the Arab minority rights groups like Adalah:
And of course, there are plenty of day-to-day examples of discrimination that pass into the memory hole:
Olmert: Discrimination against Arabs deliberate Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says longtime discrimination against Israeli Arabs seeking public service posts deliberate; PM says that complete absence of Arab employees at Bank of Israel 'terrible'
Jewish identity is not simply ethnic. It is not simply religious. There are many different ethnic groups that are Jewish. Their commonality is that they belong to the Jewish religion (and if not at present, then they once did).
You can be Jewish and an atheist but not Jewish without having some previous link (a former relative) that included the religion.
There is no such thing as someone spontaneously being Jewish but also an atheist.
You had a parent who was Jewish and atheist perhaps, but somewhere back that parent had a religious link in his or her family tree. That is what denotes someone as 'Jewish' - and from there, they can be Jewish and atheist.
Israel's Law of Return allows people descended from Jewish families to gain Israeli citizenship providing they haven't converted (I think).
But there is no such thing as a 'Jewish' nationality. Just like there is no such thing as a Muslim nationality or a Christian nationality.
Both Muslims and Christians have their own ethnic groups as well. There are Asian Muslims, Arab Muslims, etc. etc. with their own unique cultures.
Nationality should belong to the people of a territory. What does Jewish nationalism or Jewish nationality mean for the 20% of Israel that is ARAB?
This goes back to Zionism's original and on-going sin = the land was not vacant and the only way you got a Jewish majority is through WAR and ETHNIC CLEANSING of the real INDIGENOUS POPULATION, the Palestinian people.
The settlements prevent any contiguous Palestinian State.
And all of them are illegal under international law.
You don't need to refer to IHL anyway.
If I usurp you, and build on your land - that's wrong.
The problem is Zionism and Jewish nationalism (such as it is). You are criminally narcissistic and thus, incapable of thinking outside of your ideological blinders.
When I put the time and effort in my posts (like Hostage), I cite the documentary record using mainstream news articles, mainstream NGOs, and the UN.
I do not cite some blog's editorial - even if I agree with the editorial.
The bottom-line is simple, Fredblogs : you support war crimes when committed by Jewish nationalism. I never support war crimes in any situation. My comment history is open to anyone to verify these statements.
Whereas, we can easily pick out the disgusting things you say daily without even having to swift through the sewage of your comment page.
Hophmi is an American-Jew who hates America, evidenced by his cynical usage of the American polity and identity to play up or play down good/bad traits of Israel.
In fact, whatever he considers positive about America is strictly through the prism of Zionism and Israel.
He has called Palestinians Nazis before (using the lie that the Mufti represented the Palestinian people and the accompanying fallacy of guilt by association).
I'd say 95% of what hophmi says is a lie. He is only allowed to troll Mondoweiss because he is part of a minority of Zionist voices on this site. We need him for 'balance'.
Ben-Gurion was talking about intentions. But intentions mean nothing if the end result of your actions is that you ethnically cleanse a group of people.
Whether the intention is pure cartoon villain hate or solve the Jewish problem by providing land and housing - it was ethnic cleansing.
Why don't you go up to your European or American, non-Jewish friends (if you have any) and tell them you'd like to get rid of them and their families and friends if they don't make way for Jewish refugees.
hophmi as usual is dishonest and cites his favorite Zionist propaganda outfit, CAMERA.
Ben-Gurion is saying that if the Arabs refuse to let people take their land so that Jewish immigrants could live on it, they should be ethnically cleansed.
And this coincides with what the Zionists did to the Palestinians before the declaration of Israeli Statehood.
There was no surprise Arab attack on the nascent Jewish State. In fact, the Arab armies acted far too slowly and were ill-equipped and undermanned.
I don’t want to sound naive, but I truly believe that there are enough forces among Israeli society that would not allow the government to disobey a clear, final, and binding ruling of the highest court in our land.
Didnt Israel legalize torture? Didn't the IDF try to get human shielding tactics legalized?
So the IDF and the Israeli government and anything else that fits your etiquette, is 'the enemy entity'.
Next time when an IDF storm-trooper disperses a Palestinian protest on Palestinian land, let's hope the Palestinians have more than rocks to fling back in self-defense.
You have never had the moral high-ground in this fight. Just more guns and a better PR machine.
Who are these pro-Palestinian figures who espouse the views you have been going on and on about?
They have been on the lecture circuit? List them please. I suppose Gilad Aztmon is one example but he is has been rejected by well-known intellectuals who have a long track record of supporting the Palestinian struggle.
If you can't break 5, then you're wasting everyone's time.
Israel and Zionism is supported, in the mainstream, by lunatics and Islamophobes. To a much higher degree than what you are suggesting occurs in the Palestinian solidarity movement.
For the simple reason that Zionism is considered a legitimate political movement. Solidarity with Palestinians is still a taboo in spite of whatever victories have been had.
In the 1980s, Reagan era policy was outlined in a document called, 'The Santa Fe document' - which called for ideological warfare to be waged in Latin America. The Reagan admin. and the Right's intellectual base sought to counter Christian liberation theology with Christian evangelicalism.
These people are extremists but they are allowed to legitimately participate in the political process. Their ideas are absurd but they get plenty of airtime.
That is a real example of extremists hijacking a movement (well in this case, usurping a movement to represent the 'true' Christianity).
The notion that the Palestinian solidarity movement is being hijacked by extremists like Faurrisan (who is a dinosaur) is f-ing stupid.
As usual there is no comparison between Israel and Palestine. In this regard, it's he issue of agent provacateurs.
Look at the list of Zionists that Annie posted and count how many are part of the Zionist mainstream and are also virulent Islamophobes and anti-Arab racists.
Compare that to a list of mainstream Palestinian solidarity activists and intellectuals.
Yes. Every single day, Kate and others document the daily, mundane (banality of evil), and common-place attacks on Palestinians by Jewish fundamentalists. But our Zionist short-bus crew do not rant and rave about them as if the world is coming to an end.
Not that we should expect anything more of these people. They don't consider non-Jews to be human beings. Just obstacles and obstructions to Zionism.
The US State Dept. quoted, approvingly, the words of human rights workers and NGOs during the First Intifada (BEFORE SUICIDE BOMBING) that the IDF was acting like DEATH SQUADS!
Suicide bombing has always been a blip in the violence of this conflict. It's exotic though and so Israel uses it to demonize the Palestinian people as a whole, culturally (clash of civ/they aren't like us westerners who love life, blah blah).
Israeli Fascist Soldiers beating children, women, the elderly:
Israel has murdered more civilians than Palestinian terrorism has. And Israel's crimes in other areas overwhelm Palestinian crimes because it is ISRAEL that is occupying and colonizing - not the Palestinians.
People like you want to falsely portray this conflict as if it's the other way around. As if it's the Palestinians occupying and colonizing and murdering Jews then turning around and saying, 'Whoops, collateral damage, we're the most moral blah blah on Earth because we dropped leaflets before incinerating you!'
You aren't agreeing wi John Lewis because he is John Lewis.
You are agreeing with John Lewis because YOU are a Zionist.
There is no evidence to support the claim you make. It is a documented fabrication. But you trust someone you know nothing about based solely on their word? One of the most important people in history and Zionist sophists like you cannot substantiate this quote beyond 'so and so told me so'.
You like to call everyone here extremists while peddling your mendacious garbage.
Get it through your thick skull.
Most support for Zionism comes from Christian evangelicals. The Zionist lobby has been able to bully their political opponents into submission or ostracism. The media is by definition pro-government and pro-status quo. Your side is much more wealthy and assimilated while Arab-Americans and Muslims can't even have a crappy boring reality TV show without some Christian fundies crying jihad this and that.
Bottom-line: people don't know what the f is going on in the ME because they get their news in the form of sound-bites and an overwhelmingly pro-Israel slant. People support Israel precisely because of a combination of lack of awareness, apathy towards the Palestinians (who are slandered as terrorists or as you call them, Hitler supporters), and because of anti-Arab racism, the supposed War On Terror, the Christian fundies, the fact that Jewish donors give tremendously to both parties and no one wants to stick their neck out for the Palestinians after the cost-risk assessment.
Cutting to the chase: the game is rigged and has been for a long time. BDS is a way to undermine sophists like you, hoppy.
That's why your crying your Zionist heart out. So let yourself believe that Palestinians are pure evil and deserve no sympathy because they refused to be held down and raped by Zionism.
NO OTHER PEOPLE ON EARTH would allow Jewish nationalism to usurp them in the manner in which it usurped Palestinian society. No one.
Chalk that up to anther one of your disgusting and racist double standards.
Israelis kill more innocent Palestinians than the other way around.
And while you are apparently American, your comments consistently show a cynicism towards this country. You will debase the United States to whitewash Israeli crimes while simultaneously laud the fact that in America, the media is 'balanced' as opposed to Europe. That and you gloat about the Lobby's success in waging a continually successful propaganda campaign to promote Zionism.
The Native Americans have plenty of blood on their hands. Yet, in retrospect people sympathize with them.
They do this because they look at the bigger picture and not the decontextualized violence.
Israel is portrayed by you as an innocent victim when the power dynamic flips your bullshit framing on its head.
This is not recent. This is how it has always been.
Palestinians did not come to Palestine as immigrants and usurp the indigenous population. Your people did.
You can brag about the power of your constituency within the American Jewish community, hoppy.
But you are a true villain and a consummate a$$hole. Zionism never has and never will have the moral high ground.
And even though pathological liars and intellectual crooks/sophists like you leap frog from realpolitik ('there are worse countries!') to identity politics and emotional blackmail ('antisemite! Palestinians supported Hitler!') to paying lip service to the 2ss (because the 2ss is f-ing dead) and issuing vomit-inducing platitudes - you mainly care about image and 'defending' Israel as a moral entity.
Well, we are all just regular people here. None of us are IDF jailers in the longest modern occupation in history or Christian eschatologists or settlers or Kahanists or members of Hamas or whatever.
So our concern has always been about. Right and wrong. Your concern is purely about maintaining the dominant Israeli status quo; maintaining the Zionist status quo.
Coretta Scott King support Mubarek Awad's non-violent doctrine in the face of his inevitable deportation by the Israeli government.
She wrote a letter to the Israeli president or something. This was reported on in the NY Times.
Mahatma Gandhi supported the Palestinian struggle. So did Bertrand Russell.
The notion that King would have been a Zionist and justified ethnic cleansing and the apartheid conditions in the Territories now, is absurd.
There is no proof he ever wrote that b.s. letter about anti-Zionism = anti-semitism.
In fact, did MLK write ANYTHING regarding antisemitism?
And even if he did hypothetically, this was before the occupation went on for decades. This was before the end of apartheid in SA.
It's like quoting Zuheir Moshen (who said Palestine - and Lebanon/Jordan/etc. did not 'exist'). Moshen was a pan-Arab nationalist. He didn't believe in dividing the Arab world into States. But he died abruptly and did not see the end of pan-Arabism and the occupation as it has become and all the rest.
It's illogical to project the trajectory of MLK's intellectual awareness on the I-P conflict as you have.
It is far more likely he would have sympathized and supported the Palestinian struggle as his WIFE did. As Desmond Tutu does. As Nelson Mandela does. ETC ETC
Israel is a colonial-settler State. It has no permanent borders and it has been carrying out an on-going 45-year long military occupation and colonization of Palestinian land.
When the Toulouse shooter's justification was reported on, one of the reasons was Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.
By mentioning the recent Toulouse shooting, you are humanizing the Beitar supporters. That's fine I suppose since they are as human as you and I. So was the Toulouse shooter.
But I don't understand why the recent shootings matter - the Beitar supporters have done this before (and have been arrested for it).
Izik is so deeply and fanatically racist that he thinks that when Israeli Jews say they will follow the law and apply it fairly towards Arabs, that THAT is exemplary.
I didn't say violence towards Arabs is ignored by the Israeli police (because I have not looked into this issue to know either way). I would not be surprised though.
Can YOU empirically prove that the Israeli legal system is fair towards Arabs?
However, I can say definitively that in the OT, the Israeli government ignores complaints by Palestinians and justice is rarely served even when the few complaints made, get through.
The day Israel treats Jewish offenders against Arab victims equally is the day the occupation ends and colonization ends. Until then, every report that says Israeli police or the Israeli government is "investigating" the incident is lip service.
None of those situations are comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict you goon.
Stop trolling.
Are any of the countries you listed colonizing someone else's land. Are any of those countries ethnically cleansing the indigenous population to make way for the politically dominant 'group'?
Are any of those countries practicing apartheid in those territories as it slowly gobbles up the land belonging to the indigenous population and handing it over to the dominant political 'group'?
You are implying that because Israeli leaders (and by relation, American leaders and any other 'leaders') have not been tried and convicted of war crimes - that they have never committed war crimes (or any crimes for that matter).
There have been attempts by solidarity activists in the UK to have Livni arrested upon landing, but the British government changed it's laws so she couldn't be charged.
This is political. Israel and the United States and Great Britain will never be brought before 'the world' and tried and convicted and it's leaders or political-military architects executed or imprisoned.
This only happens to people who lose the war.
Your conclusion is absurd, hypocritical and typical Zionist b.s.
The UN has issued resolution after resolution condemning the illegal settlements - but nothing has stopped them from expanding. You could even say the UN does not matter (legally/morally/objectively in any sense [primarily academic sense, not forceful action]).
But that doesn't mean Israel is in the right. It just means there is no political power to enforce the law. There was in the case of Germany, because they LOST the war.
How often do the riots result in one ethnic group, Jewish Israelis, attacking another ethnic group, Israeli Arabs?
How often does the mob beat up this latter other ethnic group because some members of it decided to defend a woman and her child after the former harasses them?
Oh and does the power dynamic of Jewish Israelis to Israeli Arabs - and by relation, Palestinians - mean anything here?
In other countries, are the rioters also allowed to lord over the 'inferior' ethnic group that they harass due to the institutionally accepted racism/discrimination in their society? Etc. etc.
It's great that this multi-lingual, Irish racist, 'Terryscott' is showing people his priorities though.
What about the honoring of Irgun? There is an Irgun military ribbon and Israel has also commemorated the King David Hotel bombing. The British government voiced their disapproval when this happened too.
If my first comment in the thread about the Jewish children murdered in France, was about their correct age (being whatever versus whatever, because either way - they're still kids) - then it would be as perverse as your first comment in this thread.
I can't even look at the kid's face. It doesn't even have to be a Palestinian or anything to do w/ this conflict. It's just plain shocking. Apparently, though you are deeply concerned that he is being reported as younger than he is (by a year LOL)
[...]to attack small groups soldiers and overwhelm them by force of numbers
I would tell you to read the article clearly for the word, 'weekly' for the context but you're a fanatical racist so your mind was made up.
B'Tselem:
A-Nabi Saleh is a Palestinian village in the West Bank, north of Ramallah. For for more than eighteen months now, every Friday, its residents have demonstrated against settlers seizing nearby land that belongs to Palestinians. The Friday processions held in the village have become one of the main sites of weekly protest in the West Bank in recent years.
In their handling of the protests in a-Nabi Saleh, Israel’s security forces have infringed the rights of the Palestinian demonstrators in three fundamental ways, as follows:
Violation of the right to demonstrate
[...]Excessive use of means for dispersing demonstrations
[...]Harm to the civilian population
The article explains each of those violations, and you can read it yourself.
But the more important issue is whether Palestinians have the same right to self-defense. When Palestinians are being occupied and and their land colonized for 45 years (with no end in sight) - what kind of self-defense is acceptable according to your Zionist etiquette?
Let me answer that for you: you are a hypocrite and think Palestinians are sub-human. Hence, the only way you'd even think of using the term 'self-defense' is when an Israeli does something bad to a Palestinian. If a Palestinian is being evicted off of his land due to some Zionist bureaucratic b.s. or sent to jail for some trumped up charge of 'incitement' or all the other injustices they face daily - you aren't going to bring up their right to 'self-defense'.
Anyways, the Israeli soldiers aren't defending themselves. They are shooting people in the face with rubber bullets (or tear-gas canisters).
People like you use the security pretext for everything. Israel is much more UN-SECURE transplanting it's population into enemy territory and holding that enemy population hostage for 45 years.
Why aren't you railing against the Israeli government for colonizing Palestinian land?
If the tears of a child are the benchmark for deciding right or wrong and if I were to show you a video of a Jewish child crying at the funeral of his father, would this bring you to speak out against Palestinians?
And if the father in the video was a killer and broke the law, would the tears of his child have any bearing on the need for him to be arrested?
Are you suggesting that the power dynamic between Israelis and Palestinians is on equal footing?
Palestinians are being colonized. Not Israelis. Palestinians are being occupied for almost 50 years by a foreign enemy. Not the Israelis.
There is no comparison between the Israelis and the Palestinians on the issue of personal and national suffering.
Israel is practicing apartheid and colonialism in the Occupied Territories.
What about the German-Egyptian woman, who was stabbed to death in front of her son and husband in court by the Islamophobe she was accusing of harassment?
'Muslims in Europe' are not making it 'impossible' for Jews to live normal lives.
No amount of Zionist blog sites or unsubstantiated editorials in the JPost will be able to support that sweeping generalization.
And saying 'Muslim sympathizers' is purely Islamophobic and violates MW's commenting policy:
1. No racist or sexist comments.
This includes anti-Arab, Islamophobic and anti-Semitic comments (and yes, Christian-bashing too). This includes comments that disparage, intimidate or attack a person based on perceived ethnicity or gender.
[...]a Parisian mother related how the fear of being physically attacked by Muslim extremist thugs means that it is “not rare at all today” for French Jewish students to attempt to pass themselves off as Muslim[...]
You have a point. I think (if I ignore all of your other comments ever), that you bring up a reasonable argument.
That being said!
Anyone recall when that Egyptian Muslim woman (pregnant at the time) was stabbed to death in Germany by an Islamophobe who she was suing for bigoted harassment?
Unemployed Alex W. from Perm in Russia was found guilty last November of insulting and abusing Sherbini, screaming "terrorist" and "Islamist whore" at her, during the Dresden park encounter. He was fined ¤780 but had appealed the verdict, which is why he and Sherbini appeared face to face in court again.
Angry mourners at the funeral in Alexandria accused Germany of racism, shouting slogans such as "Germans are the enemies of God" and Egypt's head mufti Muhammad Sayyid Tantawy called on the German judiciary to severely punish Alex W.
[...]The victim's brother, Tarek el-Sherbini, labelled Germany as a "cold" country when interviewed by a popular talk show host. Media pundits such as Abdel Azeem Hamad, editor of the daily al-Shorouk newspaper, have attributed the western media's disinterest in the story to racism, arguing that if Sherbini had been Jewish the incident would have received much greater attention.
The guy belonged to an Al-Qaeda affiliate. Don’t you get it? Israel could be the most peaceful country on the face of the planet. The guy is still going to shoot these Jews. He hates Jews, because he believes in a crazy ideology. He uses the Palestinians AS AN EXCUSE. And you buy it.
I don't think hophmi is being completely unreasonable here actually.
The guy was (as far as we know so far) an Islamic extremist. Although his buddies say they didn't get that impression from him. His ties to Al Qaeda are suspect so far. They media isn't saying he WAS an affiliate (as a matter of fact). They are saying he is alleged to have been.
I read a article where it was said he was part of a Salafist(sp) group but it didn't have more than 15 members and had no track record of anything (was a new group or something).
@hophmi
He killed 3 Muslims as well didn't he? How do you know he has a long track record of antisemitism? I don't doubt that he harbored hatred toward Jews. He clearly conflated every Jew at that school w/ Israel and then used Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as an excuse to kill innocent children.
Isn't he first and foremost - a psychopath? This is not to say he loved Jews and suddenly changed his mind once he became cognizant of Palestinian suffering. I just don't think that antisemitism is his primary identifier. It's part of who he was (towards the end of his short life).
Hophmi said:
What the 'mainstream' recognizes as antisemitism and what is recognized as mainstream is a point of view unto itself.
You consider the American press to be unbiased compared to the UK press precisely because of how they (European press) treat Israel.
Earlier in this thread you rattled off a bunch of other issues you supposedly care about other than Israel. But none of that matters. You only give a damn about this issue. It's the only issue that shows you for the crazy that you are. LOL
sean,
hophmi is the same clown who tried to tell us a snake colored as the Palestinian national flag was not a hateful depiction of Palestinian national identity.
hophmi is the same clown who called Palestinians - in their entirety - Nazis, by slippery sloping verb-noun-the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
He is a side-show. The few token Zionist commentators on MW who are allowed to say whatever because the truth is that Zionism is a joke. It has prevailed only through money, fanaticism, violence, and emotional blackmail and a conflation of political interests.
If it were to up to a true 'war of ideas'? Well, take a look at these sophist fools, hophmi and fredblogs and all the rest.
Cherish your Jewish whatever. I'm all for it. Just don't inflict it on another group of people and don't codify it into law that discriminates against other ethnic groups.
All discussion here pertains to the Israel-Palestine conflict and comes back to the Nakba.
The on-going Zionist colonial project.
Izik,
Stop using murdered Syrians to mask the murdered Palestinians.
You don't give a damn about anyone outside of your tribe. You are a racist and a hypocrite and are on this blog with a hateful agenda that any rational person can see.
"the Jewish people" should follow your own rules and get the hell out of historic Palestine or at the least, out of the occupied Palestinian territories.
Fredblogs is a fascist.
What you just wrote does not compute with him.
The protesters are troublemakers to him. That's something fascists say.
What a cartoony thing to say. LOL
Nima you have an excellent bullshit detector. Zionist sockpuppets who have been banned often resurface here under various new identities.
Its pathetic but funny too. Glad you took the time to reveal Hamishe_Sabz for the troll that he his.
I think WJ has come full circle and is now our new resident Richard Witty.
Congratulations kiddo, you're all grown up!
Hophmi,
Who is predominantly reporting on this story and who is perpetuating the meme of '200 Jewish students' (a lie).
It's not a Jewish media conspiracy in the way you want to nail your political opponents as antisemites. But nevertheless. The players are almost all Jewish and the ones perpetuating the tag line are also almost all Jewish.
Roflolololol@ " the onion "
As to the rest of your article Matt, our zionist shortbus insist on making analogies to America only when it serves their interests (ie blah blah imagine if Mexico were lobbing rockets at Texas).
So when you add some context to said analogy like, oh I dunno, maybe we were occupying and colonizing Mexico for fifty years and killing them at a ratio of 10 to 1 and it was only in the last ten years of the conflict that you could say that any rockets were being lobbed anyway and that these rockets were more or less worthless in and of themselves - not even relatively speaking.
Etc etc
Every comparison = Israel loses.
Any empirical approach to this conflict = Israel loses.
Only when you employ racism and sophistry (tough neighborhood, it's complicated, plenty of Arab countries for the Palestinians to migrate to, blah blah) does Zionism fly.
I don't know any Jews personally and haven't been to any Holocaust museums.
I guess that makes me a Holocaust denier!
Read the article more closely and stop sniffing the ziocaine.
Hophmi is so cartoonishly corrupt and lies so effortlessly.
settlers = colonists and thieves
IDF = fascist bullies
Is the guy from Hillel implying Israel doesn't demolish Palestinian homes?
And why should a group called 'Students for Justice in Palestine' work on every other issue except Israel-Palestine? They are a Palestinian solidarity group. That's the point.
More proof that it's not the nature of the criticism - it's ANY criticism.
So they got upset that people were put in the shoes (to a small extent) of a Palestinian. Oh no!
It's like the Zionists groups censoring the Palestinian children's art exhibit or that Canadian Zionist group TRYING to but failing, to censor a book about a Palestinian girl.
Or angry Zionist students protesting Edward Said being mentioning in a standardized test for their school.
It's all censorship and framed as 'fighting the delegitimization of Israel'.
In fact, these Zionists groups are the ones singling Israel out. They single Israel out because to them, Israel cannot be criticized (for all practical purposes, criticism is not 'we live in a tough neighborhood' or 'we aren't a perfect country' - LOL).
Cultists.
This is horrible.
Israel will simply bomb Gaza sometime soon and kill her in the bombing. Mark my words.
When you rig the game, you decide the outcome.
But hey guys, blah blah blah China! Why are you focusing on Israel! Antisemites!
LOL
Ben Adler's argument is air-tight!
When has Beinhart had to defend his views in a meaningful debate?
Not with other Zionists. But with Palestinians and anti-Zionists.
He is a privileged American Jew and is happy in his Zionist bubble, only wanting his Zionism to be given a makeover.
Newclench said:
Palestinians are not foreign to the land. Your brethern are.
There was a tiny amount of Jews in the land and the rest flooded Palestine and eventually USURPED the indigenous population.
That is what happened. Not the other way around.
The context is completely different. Palestinians are not recent immigrants. You are.
What?
Awesome.
She's right. US policy and 'values' are contradictory when it comes to the ME, but especially in relation to Israel and the Palestinians.
The one-sided, mindless support for Israel's colonial project and apartheid policies are not in line w/ the values which America exemplifies (as a slogan though, since all of these 'values' are never absolute and come from un-democratic beginnings).
That tension and that conflict created these values. It is who we are when we're at our best. A standard we want to rise to continually. In that sense, Israel does not have anything in common with us.
Their standard is low and will always be low. They want to maintain a fixed Arab minority that will always be institutionally and socially discriminated against. To elevate the status of the Israeli Arabs to that of the Israeli Jews would be to end the Zionist project of a country club for Jews in the heart of the Arab world.
Awesome Alec. Looking forward to more optimization like this.
Hamishe_Sabz
Zionists pioneered blowing up marketplaces, cafes, taxis, homes, etc.
They even hid weapons in synagogues.
In fact, most of what the apartheid, racist State of Israel accuses it's enemies of doing - it has done itself.
So put a cork in it, you hypocrite.
The Hamas charter cannot compare to Israeli cruelty and brutality.
While the Hamas charter might say this or that about Israel's illegitimacy - Israel is, in action, destroying what is left of Historic Palestine.
No one - certainly not the Palestinian people - is obligated to accept the legitimacy of the racist, apartheid colonial-settler State of Israel.
That would be like asking Native Americans to accept the legitimacy of Manifest Destiny and the United States.
They need only accept it as a reality (unfortunately for them).
Similarly, Palestinians have accepted that Israel exists. They - and other moral human beings - seek to transform Israel from a racist State that privileges Jews over non-Jews and swallows up the land of the Palestinian people for decades into a democratic State for the citizens of the state rather than a 'Jewish' state.
The Palestinians are not obligated to give anything to Israel since all of the settlements are illegal under international law. However, they have made many concessions.
The 'Palestine papers' leak revealed that the Palestinian negotiators were open to negotiation to the point of submission.
Whereas the Israelis were completely intractable and unreasonable.
He's absolutely right and Israel's predictable response to the truth is cartoony in it's villainy.
Actually people ARE talking about him.
And the fact that you continue to troll this anti-Zionist blog, armed with nothing more than whiny cry-baby antics and delusion is a testament to his recent waves.
Shouldn't you be boycotting Israel for dealing w/ China and supporting apartheid SA, hoppy?
Or is the rest of the planet cynical, only?
hophmi said:
Why is the BDS movement obligated to boycott X, Y, and Z country to appease racist, Zionist fascists like yourself?
Are you telling the Palestinians under occupation that they should boycott blah blah if they want to boycott the country occupying and colonizing them? LOL
You are so fanatically stupid, it's sick!
This is a Palestinian solidarity movement, hence it focuses on an issue relevant to PALESTINIANS.
You still haven't proven that the people who support BDS, are silent or ignore other human rights abusers.
hophmi said:
You won't dignify it? In this same thread you are putting PERPETUAL blame on the entire planet for not 'saving the Jews' during the Holocaust. LOL
While at the same time ignoring the fact that Israel is a serial human rights abuser and supporter of apartheid (as well as being an apartheid State itself).
In another thread (or maybe this one; I lose track of your one-trick-pony hysteria), you say 'other countries deal w/ China wah wah' - so does Israel.
Your argument is filmsy, nonsensical and mind-numbingly idiotic.
So in other words hophmi, you have no f-ing clue how many actually serve in the army.
How do you know they are welcome to serve in the army? What does that mean?
It's not an issue of what I think Israel should do. The probable reason why Israel does not conscript the Palestinians in Israel, is the same reason it ruled them under martial law until 1966. They are not Zionists. They are considered a fifth column - and will continue to be viewed (and treated) as such.
It means absolutely NOTHING that some Israeli Arabs and Bedouins serve. Nothing. Until they are treated equally and fairly, and given the same 'privileges' as Jews, no one could give a shit that some of them police the Palestinians in the OT along w/ Zionist Jews.
Hophmi,
How many Israeli Arabs serve in the army?
How many Bedouins serve in the army?
Hophmi, you made some absurdly indignant comment about 'the world'. And I countered with the reality that your racist, apartheid State has supported other racist, apartheid States.
I'm not constructing a fairy-tale image of Israel's nobility. You are - by 'blaming' 'the world' for the Holocaust (carrying over into the present-day and most likely the foreseeable future so long as you have to defend the Zionist colonial project).
Who is the BDS movement, hophmi, and where is your proof they have remained silent on human rights abuses elsewhere?
LOL
Let's get one thing straight. BDS is supported by Palestian civil society. The oppressed people support this movement. You are railing against supporters of Palestinian human rights. Hence, you don't care about human rights in principle. You simply use X,Y, and Z country as a human shield for Israeli criminality.
It's your own pathetic way of muddying the water. It's not that you think the criticism is 'one-sided' - its that you and your cult, cannot tolerate any kind of meaningful criticism and any kind of meaningful non-violent action against Israeli crimes.
That is one of the reasons activists are working to implement BDS.
Why should any Palestinian solidarity activist be a one-person Amnesty International? Or HRW? Or UN?
In fact, these same NGOs are dismissed by you and your cult when they document human rights abuses committed by Israel. So why should anyone try to emulate such anti-Israel organizations?!
You don't have any proof that someone who supports BDS against the apartheid and racist State of Israel, is by definition, silent on the crimes committed by other human rights abuses.
You are a troll.
You call me a hypocrite based on an assumption.
I don't read Latuff.
There, now try again you failure.
As usual, you're ignorant.
Let's reiterate Woody's salient rebuttal:
The Saudis have no substantial Jewish population (if any at all AFAIK) whereas the Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are native to Israel-Palestine and predate their European usurpers.
The truth is that the majority of Israeli Arabs - a vast majority - do not serve in the army. What percentage of Bedouins serve in the army?
And you were predictably unable to answer my underlying point - that in spite of your bullshit framing, Israeli Arabs and Bedouins are not Zionists and are not recent immigrants (like most of your fellow Zionist Jews).
Seanmcbride is not an antisemite.
You on the other hand are an anti-Arab racist and Islamophobe and should be banned for constantly spewing hysterical bullshit and slander in ever one of your comments.
You are the same clown who denied the racism in a depiction of Palestinian national identity as a snake up against 'Captain Israel' - lol.
Hophmi said:
Your sense of entitlement and indignance (at what, no one will ever know) is disgusting as usual.
Israel supported apartheid SA. The end - the sky is falling, there is no morality! Oh wait, it's ok for Israel to shatter this moral consistency repeatedly but not 'the rest of the world/most of the world.'
Did you forget your pills this morning? Climb down from the chandelier.
Israel does business with China. To much controversy actually:
link to meforum.org
Is that the best hasbara you can come up with hoppy?
Hophmi said:
Wow, just a second ago you were using the US as an example and now you're using the surrounding Arab states. Many of which are dictatorships that were supported by Israel and the US to keep the national aspirations of the people there in check.
You're on a roll today hoppy, literally everything you've said so far is bulkshit.
Hophmi said :
LOL
How many Muslims are in the IDF? If there are a substantial number of Christian soldiers - are they evangelicals?
If this picture of Israel you paint is as meaningful as the reality then why are the Israeli Arab minority not convinced of Zionism's supposed validity?
As usual you cannibalize what little integrity you have left to play up Israel's qualities and to down play it's faults.
Challenges we haven't faced? Lol
You're pathetic.
I agree with the qualifiers here, but I disagree with the blanket statement still.
Who is defining the parameters for what is and is not acceptable?
Zionists.
Zionism is the common factor.
Phil said:
The Palestinian population inside Israel proper is not comparable to African-Americans in America.
African-Americans are not indigenous to America.
Native Americans are indigenous to America.
This is a colonial conflict. Mark Twain hated Native Americans but sympathized with African-Americans. Why?
link to bluecorncomics.com
These groups are viewed differently. It's not enough to be a minority. If that minority has something you want (land) - then you hate them even more.
I don't understand why people like Adler think every single person who is a political activist, has to be a one-man Amnesty International or HRW.
Are Zionists one-mn AI/HRW? NO! They think the UN is biased. They think AI is biased. They think HRW is biased. They try to undermine NGOs in Israel. Etc. etc.
This is a very cynical accusation and it is used by partisans.
It deserves no consideration. If you care about dolphins in Japan, then you aren't going to be working on other issues. You're going to be working on dolphins in Japan.
Does that mean you are a sociopath and don't care if a human being dies beside you? LOL
Zionism and it's 2nd grade logic belong on the playground. It's all mendacious bullshit.
I made one comment in that thread. It was unmoderated.
Within maybe 5 minutes of the post being published, my NEXT comment (in reply to someone) was 'awaiting moderation', rofl.
And Zionists on MW complain about the moderation here!
On MW, I get moderated and I'm an anti-Zionist.
It just demonstrates the moral integrity that Phil has (even though I disagree still w/ Blankfort's banning).
On this polarizing issue, Phil is fair. On a typical nutcase website lik PajamasMedia, with moderation likely being handled by the crazy author himself - it's censorship for any view that deviates from their crazy insulated rantings.
I said to them, 'speak this way on American television'. Tell everyone in America that criticizing Israel is antisemitic. Let normal people be bombarded with this narcissism and schizophrenia.
It rattles people who do not judge others based on whether they are Jewish or not. Normal people who don't make sophist arguments like: " 'the Arabs' have X number of States and 'the Jews' have 1 little tiny State, so it's ok to get rid of the Palestinians and send them packing to Mecca!"
That's great Terry. We're all very glad you were able to tell us how great Tel Aviv is. It's 'energy' and 'youth' is something that we are concerned about first and foremost when discussing the Israel-Palestine conflict.
In fact! F**k the Palestinians, Tel Aviv is 'energetic'! Why have we wasted all our time on unattractive and 'un-hot' things like international law and human rights!
Thanks Terry. You are a treasure. How many languages did you speak again? I am truly in awe of your wondiferous insight!
Feiner,
When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew and was murdered for it?
When was the last time a Palestinian sold a house or land to a Jew in general?
Furthermore and to the point - why the HELL would a Palestinian - whose entire people are kidnapped by Zionism and face expulsion every day for the rest of their collective existence - sell land/homes to a Jew? Why? Israel is already giving their land and home to Jews. Why should Palestinians help Israel get rid of Palestine?
In any case, your LAZY Zionist meme/point-scoring rhetoric aside, nothing compares to what Israel is doing.
It's Israel that's doing the occupying and colonizing in case you've forgotten amongst your euphoria of 'returning' to the La-La-Land of Israel.
Firing a missile into a crowded street to kill a supposed terrorist, anticipating many civilian casualties but doing it anyway - is not 'self defense'.
Showering white phosphorus on civilians is not 'self-defense'.
Expanding Jewish only colonies on someone else's land and territory for 45 years is not 'self defense'.
De-developing the Gazan economy is not 'self defense'.
Shooting protestors in the face with high-velocity gas canisters is not 'self defense'.
etc etc etc
giladg,
The UN is not biased against Israel. Israel is simply a law-breaking State and the resolutions reflect that fact.
Barghouti advocates non-violence. Ghandi supported the Palestinians.
The only joke is the Israeli propaganda that justifies incinerating 300 Palestinian children with white phosphorus using the security pretext.
Palestinians have a long documented history of non-violence.
Giladg, why did the US State Dept. cite NGOs who said the IDF acted as DEATH SQUADS during the First Intifada?
Why did the IDF beat up Palestinian children during the First Intifada?
This was before suicide bombing. So your blanket generalization and other excuses are inapplicable unfortunately.
link to mondoweiss.net
The IDF lies so effortlessly, especially Leibowitz. She's the same sadist who was smugly spewing textbook hasbacrap during the Gaza massacre. In fact, she was indignant that people were trying to take her to task for the rising civilian deaths at the time.
Absolutely horrid wormy woman.
No, the reason few have been killed is because those shitty rockets are shitty.
Meanwhile, your fascist 'defense force is shooting fish in a barrel in Gaza.
Israel kills 10 times the number of children and 5 times the number of civilians.
There is no comparison on the issue of civilians suffering. This is not a conflict between two equal parties.
It is a colonial conflict.
The Native Americans committed atrocities as well, but no one in their right mind thinks the Native Americans were on equal footing with the colonists who ultimately (all but) destroyed them.
Keep pushing the false dichotomy though. That only works when on a crowd that is as racist as you and/or religiously fanatical.
SECONDED
Never forget.
Could you explain more about the fake Finkelstein?
I had no idea about this.
Izik said:
Your response does not contradict what I said. In fact, it reinforces it.
You must be of Jewish descent (that is the lowest common denominator). Obviously, if you convert to Judaism - you are a Jew.
link to mfa.gov.il
Izik said:
No, there definitely isn't a Jewish nationality. An American Jew who is not a citizen of Israel has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel. He or she is not part of the Jewish nation. He is part of the American nation and only holds citizenship in America.
An Israeli Arab is not a Jewish nationalist. He is an Israeli Arab citizen of the Israeli nation. Unfortunately, he or she is discriminated precisely because he is NOT a Jew and does not benefit from the institutional and societal discrimination inherent to the Zionist State. Your racist apartheid State privileges Jews over non-Jews but that does not for one second imply that you or Israel or Zionism represents world Jewry.
And that racism does not imply that there is any such thing as a 'Jewish nationality'.
Your second sentence is just a lazy and superficial explanation of Zionism's origins. That does nothing to prove the existence of Jewish nationality and it sure as hell does not reconcile the notion of a Jewish nationality with the many non-Israeli citizens who are Jewish.
Try again. Your hasbara is outdated.
Izik said:
Israel is not a democratic State that allows it's citizens the right to fully express themselves and preserve their cultural identity. If that were the case then there would be open immigration for Palestinian Arabs who are not Jewish into Israel proper in the same vein as the Jewish law of Return.
Palestinians who marry Israeli Arabs are not allowed to maintain permanent residence in Israel proper or gain citizenship.
The best example of the inequality and racism and un-democratic values espoused by the so-called 'Jewish and democratic' State of Israel is the Nakba law.
link to articles.latimes.com
link to haaretz.com
High Court rejects petition against Israel's controversial 'Nakba Law'
Arab, Jewish citizens submit petition against law granting finance minister power to reduce budget of state-funded bodies that reject Israel as Jewish state or mark the Palestinian Nakba.
I would not trust a fascist Israeli like yourself to tell me how Arabs are treated in your apartheid State. I will refer to the Arab minority rights groups like Adalah:
link to adalah.org
And of course, there are plenty of day-to-day examples of discrimination that pass into the memory hole:
Olmert: Discrimination against Arabs deliberate
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert says longtime discrimination against Israeli Arabs seeking public service posts deliberate; PM says that complete absence of Arab employees at Bank of Israel 'terrible'
link to ynetnews.com
NGO reports -
Human Rights Watch:
SECOND CLASS
Discrimination Against Palestinian
Arab Children in Israel's Schools
link to hrw.org
Etc etc.
Israel's discrimination of it's Arab minority is well-known and well-documented.
You are a liar, Izik.
Wrong Izik.
Jewish identity is not simply ethnic. It is not simply religious. There are many different ethnic groups that are Jewish. Their commonality is that they belong to the Jewish religion (and if not at present, then they once did).
You can be Jewish and an atheist but not Jewish without having some previous link (a former relative) that included the religion.
There is no such thing as someone spontaneously being Jewish but also an atheist.
You had a parent who was Jewish and atheist perhaps, but somewhere back that parent had a religious link in his or her family tree. That is what denotes someone as 'Jewish' - and from there, they can be Jewish and atheist.
Israel's Law of Return allows people descended from Jewish families to gain Israeli citizenship providing they haven't converted (I think).
But there is no such thing as a 'Jewish' nationality. Just like there is no such thing as a Muslim nationality or a Christian nationality.
Both Muslims and Christians have their own ethnic groups as well. There are Asian Muslims, Arab Muslims, etc. etc. with their own unique cultures.
Nationality should belong to the people of a territory. What does Jewish nationalism or Jewish nationality mean for the 20% of Israel that is ARAB?
This goes back to Zionism's original and on-going sin = the land was not vacant and the only way you got a Jewish majority is through WAR and ETHNIC CLEANSING of the real INDIGENOUS POPULATION, the Palestinian people.
The Zionist tweet calls this woman an 'extremist'.
These words have no meaning anymore coming from Israel and it's supporters.
Judging by your infantile response to Hostage, it's more like the "Israeli delusion" rather than miracle.
I guess facts contrary to your mythology hurts your brain, hoppy.
Good, then stop taking our tax dollars, our diplomatic support, our military support, and our media support.
Urge your political leaders of your favorite country to cut all ties w/ the US or at least refuse all the support we give you.
The settlements prevent any contiguous Palestinian State.
And all of them are illegal under international law.
You don't need to refer to IHL anyway.
If I usurp you, and build on your land - that's wrong.
The problem is Zionism and Jewish nationalism (such as it is). You are criminally narcissistic and thus, incapable of thinking outside of your ideological blinders.
When I put the time and effort in my posts (like Hostage), I cite the documentary record using mainstream news articles, mainstream NGOs, and the UN.
I do not cite some blog's editorial - even if I agree with the editorial.
The bottom-line is simple, Fredblogs : you support war crimes when committed by Jewish nationalism. I never support war crimes in any situation. My comment history is open to anyone to verify these statements.
Whereas, we can easily pick out the disgusting things you say daily without even having to swift through the sewage of your comment page.
Of course you wouldn't.
My sources aren't hate-sites and Zionist blogs.
Hophmi is an American-Jew who hates America, evidenced by his cynical usage of the American polity and identity to play up or play down good/bad traits of Israel.
In fact, whatever he considers positive about America is strictly through the prism of Zionism and Israel.
He has called Palestinians Nazis before (using the lie that the Mufti represented the Palestinian people and the accompanying fallacy of guilt by association).
I'd say 95% of what hophmi says is a lie. He is only allowed to troll Mondoweiss because he is part of a minority of Zionist voices on this site. We need him for 'balance'.
pudzionist666,
Ben-Gurion was talking about intentions. But intentions mean nothing if the end result of your actions is that you ethnically cleanse a group of people.
Whether the intention is pure cartoon villain hate or solve the Jewish problem by providing land and housing - it was ethnic cleansing.
Why don't you go up to your European or American, non-Jewish friends (if you have any) and tell them you'd like to get rid of them and their families and friends if they don't make way for Jewish refugees.
Fredblogs,
Your sources - whether they be EldersofZiyon, or Pam Gellar, or CAMERA, or other Zionist hate-sites - are irrelevant.
hophmi as usual is dishonest and cites his favorite Zionist propaganda outfit, CAMERA.
Ben-Gurion is saying that if the Arabs refuse to let people take their land so that Jewish immigrants could live on it, they should be ethnically cleansed.
And this coincides with what the Zionists did to the Palestinians before the declaration of Israeli Statehood.
There was no surprise Arab attack on the nascent Jewish State. In fact, the Arab armies acted far too slowly and were ill-equipped and undermanned.
He says:
Didnt Israel legalize torture? Didn't the IDF try to get human shielding tactics legalized?
Ron Newman said:
Really? Do you think think the protesters are against the political aspirations of the majority of Israeli Arabs then?
Do you think they are against the dismantling of the institutional discrimination against Israeli Arabs?
Why do you think they were targeting the Arab MKs too? Who were these MKs and what were their politics?
Or maybe you 'felt' that way.
Occam's Razor (cuts through Zionist b.s. all the time) - they were protesting against Mr. Akunis and Ms. Kirshenbaum.
But continue your hasbara song and dance, Ron.
So the IDF and the Israeli government and anything else that fits your etiquette, is 'the enemy entity'.
Next time when an IDF storm-trooper disperses a Palestinian protest on Palestinian land, let's hope the Palestinians have more than rocks to fling back in self-defense.
You have never had the moral high-ground in this fight. Just more guns and a better PR machine.
Zionism is a lie.
Who are these pro-Palestinian figures who espouse the views you have been going on and on about?
They have been on the lecture circuit? List them please. I suppose Gilad Aztmon is one example but he is has been rejected by well-known intellectuals who have a long track record of supporting the Palestinian struggle.
If you can't break 5, then you're wasting everyone's time.
Israel and Zionism is supported, in the mainstream, by lunatics and Islamophobes. To a much higher degree than what you are suggesting occurs in the Palestinian solidarity movement.
For the simple reason that Zionism is considered a legitimate political movement. Solidarity with Palestinians is still a taboo in spite of whatever victories have been had.
In the 1980s, Reagan era policy was outlined in a document called, 'The Santa Fe document' - which called for ideological warfare to be waged in Latin America. The Reagan admin. and the Right's intellectual base sought to counter Christian liberation theology with Christian evangelicalism.
These people are extremists but they are allowed to legitimately participate in the political process. Their ideas are absurd but they get plenty of airtime.
That is a real example of extremists hijacking a movement (well in this case, usurping a movement to represent the 'true' Christianity).
The notion that the Palestinian solidarity movement is being hijacked by extremists like Faurrisan (who is a dinosaur) is f-ing stupid.
I don't know what the hell you're going on about.
As usual there is no comparison between Israel and Palestine. In this regard, it's he issue of agent provacateurs.
Look at the list of Zionists that Annie posted and count how many are part of the Zionist mainstream and are also virulent Islamophobes and anti-Arab racists.
Compare that to a list of mainstream Palestinian solidarity activists and intellectuals.
What the hell are you talking about?
@Woody
Yes. Every single day, Kate and others document the daily, mundane (banality of evil), and common-place attacks on Palestinians by Jewish fundamentalists. But our Zionist short-bus crew do not rant and rave about them as if the world is coming to an end.
Not that we should expect anything more of these people. They don't consider non-Jews to be human beings. Just obstacles and obstructions to Zionism.
Bullshit hophmi.
The US State Dept. quoted, approvingly, the words of human rights workers and NGOs during the First Intifada (BEFORE SUICIDE BOMBING) that the IDF was acting like DEATH SQUADS!
Screenshots for the lazy:
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
link to img.photobucket.com
Suicide bombing has always been a blip in the violence of this conflict. It's exotic though and so Israel uses it to demonize the Palestinian people as a whole, culturally (clash of civ/they aren't like us westerners who love life, blah blah).
Israeli Fascist Soldiers beating children, women, the elderly:
link to nytimes.com
link to articles.latimes.com
Israel has murdered more civilians than Palestinian terrorism has. And Israel's crimes in other areas overwhelm Palestinian crimes because it is ISRAEL that is occupying and colonizing - not the Palestinians.
People like you want to falsely portray this conflict as if it's the other way around. As if it's the Palestinians occupying and colonizing and murdering Jews then turning around and saying, 'Whoops, collateral damage, we're the most moral blah blah on Earth because we dropped leaflets before incinerating you!'
You aren't agreeing wi John Lewis because he is John Lewis.
You are agreeing with John Lewis because YOU are a Zionist.
There is no evidence to support the claim you make. It is a documented fabrication. But you trust someone you know nothing about based solely on their word? One of the most important people in history and Zionist sophists like you cannot substantiate this quote beyond 'so and so told me so'.
You like to call everyone here extremists while peddling your mendacious garbage.
Get it through your thick skull.
Most support for Zionism comes from Christian evangelicals. The Zionist lobby has been able to bully their political opponents into submission or ostracism. The media is by definition pro-government and pro-status quo. Your side is much more wealthy and assimilated while Arab-Americans and Muslims can't even have a crappy boring reality TV show without some Christian fundies crying jihad this and that.
Bottom-line: people don't know what the f is going on in the ME because they get their news in the form of sound-bites and an overwhelmingly pro-Israel slant. People support Israel precisely because of a combination of lack of awareness, apathy towards the Palestinians (who are slandered as terrorists or as you call them, Hitler supporters), and because of anti-Arab racism, the supposed War On Terror, the Christian fundies, the fact that Jewish donors give tremendously to both parties and no one wants to stick their neck out for the Palestinians after the cost-risk assessment.
Cutting to the chase: the game is rigged and has been for a long time. BDS is a way to undermine sophists like you, hoppy.
That's why your crying your Zionist heart out. So let yourself believe that Palestinians are pure evil and deserve no sympathy because they refused to be held down and raped by Zionism.
NO OTHER PEOPLE ON EARTH would allow Jewish nationalism to usurp them in the manner in which it usurped Palestinian society. No one.
Chalk that up to anther one of your disgusting and racist double standards.
Israelis kill more innocent Palestinians than the other way around.
And while you are apparently American, your comments consistently show a cynicism towards this country. You will debase the United States to whitewash Israeli crimes while simultaneously laud the fact that in America, the media is 'balanced' as opposed to Europe. That and you gloat about the Lobby's success in waging a continually successful propaganda campaign to promote Zionism.
The Native Americans have plenty of blood on their hands. Yet, in retrospect people sympathize with them.
They do this because they look at the bigger picture and not the decontextualized violence.
Israel is portrayed by you as an innocent victim when the power dynamic flips your bullshit framing on its head.
This is not recent. This is how it has always been.
Palestinians did not come to Palestine as immigrants and usurp the indigenous population. Your people did.
You can brag about the power of your constituency within the American Jewish community, hoppy.
But you are a true villain and a consummate a$$hole. Zionism never has and never will have the moral high ground.
And even though pathological liars and intellectual crooks/sophists like you leap frog from realpolitik ('there are worse countries!') to identity politics and emotional blackmail ('antisemite! Palestinians supported Hitler!') to paying lip service to the 2ss (because the 2ss is f-ing dead) and issuing vomit-inducing platitudes - you mainly care about image and 'defending' Israel as a moral entity.
Well, we are all just regular people here. None of us are IDF jailers in the longest modern occupation in history or Christian eschatologists or settlers or Kahanists or members of Hamas or whatever.
So our concern has always been about. Right and wrong. Your concern is purely about maintaining the dominant Israeli status quo; maintaining the Zionist status quo.
No it isn't Hophmi.
Coretta Scott King support Mubarek Awad's non-violent doctrine in the face of his inevitable deportation by the Israeli government.
She wrote a letter to the Israeli president or something. This was reported on in the NY Times.
Mahatma Gandhi supported the Palestinian struggle. So did Bertrand Russell.
The notion that King would have been a Zionist and justified ethnic cleansing and the apartheid conditions in the Territories now, is absurd.
There is no proof he ever wrote that b.s. letter about anti-Zionism = anti-semitism.
In fact, did MLK write ANYTHING regarding antisemitism?
And even if he did hypothetically, this was before the occupation went on for decades. This was before the end of apartheid in SA.
It's like quoting Zuheir Moshen (who said Palestine - and Lebanon/Jordan/etc. did not 'exist'). Moshen was a pan-Arab nationalist. He didn't believe in dividing the Arab world into States. But he died abruptly and did not see the end of pan-Arabism and the occupation as it has become and all the rest.
It's illogical to project the trajectory of MLK's intellectual awareness on the I-P conflict as you have.
It is far more likely he would have sympathized and supported the Palestinian struggle as his WIFE did. As Desmond Tutu does. As Nelson Mandela does. ETC ETC
Agreed.
Israel is a colonial-settler State. It has no permanent borders and it has been carrying out an on-going 45-year long military occupation and colonization of Palestinian land.
The UK isn't doing that.
Your straw-man is what's 'ridiculous'.
Mayhem,
When the Toulouse shooter's justification was reported on, one of the reasons was Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.
By mentioning the recent Toulouse shooting, you are humanizing the Beitar supporters. That's fine I suppose since they are as human as you and I. So was the Toulouse shooter.
But I don't understand why the recent shootings matter - the Beitar supporters have done this before (and have been arrested for it).
Izik is so deeply and fanatically racist that he thinks that when Israeli Jews say they will follow the law and apply it fairly towards Arabs, that THAT is exemplary.
I didn't say violence towards Arabs is ignored by the Israeli police (because I have not looked into this issue to know either way). I would not be surprised though.
Can YOU empirically prove that the Israeli legal system is fair towards Arabs?
However, I can say definitively that in the OT, the Israeli government ignores complaints by Palestinians and justice is rarely served even when the few complaints made, get through.
Yesh Din studies are my source.
And as to treating people fairly:
link to peacenow.org
Israeli terrorism gets a slap on the wrist. Whereas, non-violent Palestinian activists get thrown in jail for 'incitement'.
Majority where and with respective to whom?
Since when did majorities matter to Zionism?
Jews owned 7% of Palestine at most. That didn't stop Zionism from destroying the Palestinian society that existed as the 'majority'.
The day Israel treats Jewish offenders against Arab victims equally is the day the occupation ends and colonization ends. Until then, every report that says Israeli police or the Israeli government is "investigating" the incident is lip service.
None of those situations are comparable to the Israel-Palestine conflict you goon.
Stop trolling.
Are any of the countries you listed colonizing someone else's land. Are any of those countries ethnically cleansing the indigenous population to make way for the politically dominant 'group'?
Are any of those countries practicing apartheid in those territories as it slowly gobbles up the land belonging to the indigenous population and handing it over to the dominant political 'group'?
Really?
What land is Britain, France, the Netherlands and Spain colonizing into the 21st century?
Where is their 45 year long occupation and colonization?
These guys are worse than football hooligans in Europe.
What European country has been carrying out a 45 year occupation and colonial enterprise, leading into the 21st century?
Israel is an apartheid State.
Asherpat,
You are implying that because Israeli leaders (and by relation, American leaders and any other 'leaders') have not been tried and convicted of war crimes - that they have never committed war crimes (or any crimes for that matter).
There have been attempts by solidarity activists in the UK to have Livni arrested upon landing, but the British government changed it's laws so she couldn't be charged.
This is political. Israel and the United States and Great Britain will never be brought before 'the world' and tried and convicted and it's leaders or political-military architects executed or imprisoned.
This only happens to people who lose the war.
Your conclusion is absurd, hypocritical and typical Zionist b.s.
The UN has issued resolution after resolution condemning the illegal settlements - but nothing has stopped them from expanding. You could even say the UN does not matter (legally/morally/objectively in any sense [primarily academic sense, not forceful action]).
But that doesn't mean Israel is in the right. It just means there is no political power to enforce the law. There was in the case of Germany, because they LOST the war.
How often do the riots result in one ethnic group, Jewish Israelis, attacking another ethnic group, Israeli Arabs?
How often does the mob beat up this latter other ethnic group because some members of it decided to defend a woman and her child after the former harasses them?
Oh and does the power dynamic of Jewish Israelis to Israeli Arabs - and by relation, Palestinians - mean anything here?
In other countries, are the rioters also allowed to lord over the 'inferior' ethnic group that they harass due to the institutionally accepted racism/discrimination in their society? Etc. etc.
It's great that this multi-lingual, Irish racist, 'Terryscott' is showing people his priorities though.
He's like literally every other Zio-troll.
What about the honoring of Irgun? There is an Irgun military ribbon and Israel has also commemorated the King David Hotel bombing. The British government voiced their disapproval when this happened too.
Are you dense? Read the accompanying Haaretz article and stop being intellectually dishonest and lazy.
skhan said:
No shit.
If my first comment in the thread about the Jewish children murdered in France, was about their correct age (being whatever versus whatever, because either way - they're still kids) - then it would be as perverse as your first comment in this thread.
I can't even look at the kid's face. It doesn't even have to be a Palestinian or anything to do w/ this conflict. It's just plain shocking. Apparently, though you are deeply concerned that he is being reported as younger than he is (by a year LOL)
Wow. A grown up adult just walks out of the court he is presiding over because of a 16 year old kid calling him 'Mafia'? LOL
That kid is the truth.
Fredblogs said:
I would tell you to read the article clearly for the word, 'weekly' for the context but you're a fanatical racist so your mind was made up.
B'Tselem:
The article explains each of those violations, and you can read it yourself.
link to btselem.org
But the more important issue is whether Palestinians have the same right to self-defense. When Palestinians are being occupied and and their land colonized for 45 years (with no end in sight) - what kind of self-defense is acceptable according to your Zionist etiquette?
Let me answer that for you: you are a hypocrite and think Palestinians are sub-human. Hence, the only way you'd even think of using the term 'self-defense' is when an Israeli does something bad to a Palestinian. If a Palestinian is being evicted off of his land due to some Zionist bureaucratic b.s. or sent to jail for some trumped up charge of 'incitement' or all the other injustices they face daily - you aren't going to bring up their right to 'self-defense'.
Anyways, the Israeli soldiers aren't defending themselves. They are shooting people in the face with rubber bullets (or tear-gas canisters).
Wow 'skhan', it's truly perverse that you are quibbling over his age when the kid has a giant hole in his face (not his mouth, Zionists).
14 years old. Scarred for life.
So what's the protocol for rubber bullets? It's only rubber, so they shoot it at a Palestinian's face?
I guess, if Israeli soldiers shoot tear gas canisters at a Palestinian's face - this is them being the 'most moral army in the world'.
Julie76 said:
People like you use the security pretext for everything. Israel is much more UN-SECURE transplanting it's population into enemy territory and holding that enemy population hostage for 45 years.
Why aren't you railing against the Israeli government for colonizing Palestinian land?
giladg said:
Are you suggesting that the power dynamic between Israelis and Palestinians is on equal footing?
Palestinians are being colonized. Not Israelis. Palestinians are being occupied for almost 50 years by a foreign enemy. Not the Israelis.
There is no comparison between the Israelis and the Palestinians on the issue of personal and national suffering.
Israel is practicing apartheid and colonialism in the Occupied Territories.
What about the German-Egyptian woman, who was stabbed to death in front of her son and husband in court by the Islamophobe she was accusing of harassment?
She was pregnant as well.
link to guardian.co.uk
Mayhem,
'Muslims in Europe' are not making it 'impossible' for Jews to live normal lives.
No amount of Zionist blog sites or unsubstantiated editorials in the JPost will be able to support that sweeping generalization.
And saying 'Muslim sympathizers' is purely Islamophobic and violates MW's commenting policy:
Mayhem,
The issue is not whether or not Muslims are capable of hurting a fly or not.
The issue was whether your claim that Jews are pretending to be Muslims to avoid harassment was true.
And despite your verbiage, your source was only one article. One article that provided not citation for the claim. It's just an anonymous source.
So I think it's perfectly reasonable to remain skeptical.
After all, people like you dismiss the countless reports by NGOs and the UN regarding the apartheid analogy - reports that are substantiated.
Yet, you expect us to believe some random Zionist's OP-ED in the JPost.
LOL@ the author's "credentials."
That coupled with his anonymous source = pure sophistry. Typical Zionist.
What facts?
You mean the anonymous Frenchwoman, the author of that fear-mongering/hate-mongering article cites?
Mayhem said that there was a 'bagful of hits' (implying the claim was substantiated).
But in reality, it's one JPost article, which is in-turn cited by Zionist hate-sites.
I realize you need to cheer-lead your fellow troll to 'play up' his argument - since his argument, is your argument.
Mayhem, your claim is from a JPost article:
link to jpost.com
Why isn't there any evidence for this absurd claim?
In fact, the 'bagful of hits' you are referring to are really just 2 hits and both are referring to this one article.
Unless it can be substantiated, it's just more TYPICAL hateful b.s. from Islamophobic Zionists (like yourself).
@Hophmi
You have a point. I think (if I ignore all of your other comments ever), that you bring up a reasonable argument.
That being said!
Anyone recall when that Egyptian Muslim woman (pregnant at the time) was stabbed to death in Germany by an Islamophobe who she was suing for bigoted harassment?
link to guardian.co.uk
The snippet of the reactions:
The entire article is interesting.
hophmi said:
I don't think hophmi is being completely unreasonable here actually.
The guy was (as far as we know so far) an Islamic extremist. Although his buddies say they didn't get that impression from him. His ties to Al Qaeda are suspect so far. They media isn't saying he WAS an affiliate (as a matter of fact). They are saying he is alleged to have been.
I read a article where it was said he was part of a Salafist(sp) group but it didn't have more than 15 members and had no track record of anything (was a new group or something).
@hophmi
He killed 3 Muslims as well didn't he? How do you know he has a long track record of antisemitism? I don't doubt that he harbored hatred toward Jews. He clearly conflated every Jew at that school w/ Israel and then used Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as an excuse to kill innocent children.
Isn't he first and foremost - a psychopath? This is not to say he loved Jews and suddenly changed his mind once he became cognizant of Palestinian suffering. I just don't think that antisemitism is his primary identifier. It's part of who he was (towards the end of his short life).