Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 2068 (since 2012-07-22 05:28:55)

i try and see all invlolved POV. Have no tolerance for people/groups that say one thing in one language or tsxt and then say the complete opposite in another language or text. I expect ALL parties to say what they mean and mean what they say.

Showing comments 200 - 101

  • Democracy and divestment -- DePaul and UCLA students try to thwart Israel lobby
    • on the agenda like fine print on a sleazy used car dealers sticker that nobody reads and of course-when anti-bds groups do find out and come out en masse-its just another 'sneaky dirty trick by the AIPAC/ADL groups. i think its safe to say that trick is now old hat and the pro-Israeli groups are more on the up-and-up as far as bds student props go.

    • A: The pre-election pledge thing wouldn't stand up in US courts anymore then forcing politicians who run for president to not make campaign promises.

      B: I understand all the excitement from BDS supporters. I understand that believing fully in the idea that the "tide is turning" is how energy levels can be maintained and a positive attitude is preferable to dismay. But its still very premature to predict any such 'coming success'. If UW's 56-8 is any indication....

      C. to the poster calling zach 'dumb' or not smart is lowballing a kid just fopr pointing out a political reality. While Annie sees an AIPAC /ADL conspiracy behind every door she turns an eye or gives a wink or just doesn't see similar political activity on the BDS side as the same. But thats the difference between being a PR flack, a propagandist and an actual journalist. Journalists don't have an axe to grind -or if they do-the public is not supposed to be aware. And I nave said it before and I'll say it again-if annie is anything-she is a great Palestinian hasbarist and I believe that like 'chutzpah' and mensch that a great word like 'hasbara' should not be restricted to referencing Israel but should be universal in usage as it means exactly what MW and Annie are all about. A good VERSION of events for their blog that they think promote the truth as they see it.

  • Movement to divest from Israeli occupation grows at UW-Seattle
    • There are a lot of obnoxious, bigoted , wrong-headed and trendy causes being discussed on liberal college campuses throughout the US which were not aired publicly 20 years ago. That doesn't make them any more successful and in fact-when the majority of the publics awareness is drawn to many of these bigoted and well funded campaigns (which at least dbronc has the honesty to admit its not 'grass-roots and is most definitely 'international') designed to look like grass roots movements the effect is often that the dissenting voices grow stronger and more active in opposition. Too early to say whats what with bds but it looks like its trending down, not up. And never forget the axiom about the pendulum swinging back and forth. There is no way to tell if the cycle of popularity for the BDS campaign has reached its apex with the general US public or not. 'Resounding losses', no matter how hard folks try to paint them as 'successes in disguise' are the main way to tell when a movement is failing or not. There are a lot of American parents who in the current political and economic atmosphere in the US do not want ANY of their childrens precious education being taken up with these types of diversionary causes regardless of wether they support Israeli policy or not.

    • yeah yeah. right. and when on the rare occasion a bds plank gians a vote (usually to be defeated later on down the line) the gloating, hooting and back-slapping on MW is deafening. So when there is a resounding defeat like the one here- naturally it is claimed to be a "victory" in disguise. When the defeats of bds grow less resoundign and the actual victories of bds campaign become more prevalent then their failures maybe you could get away with the trying to snatch victory-from-the-jaws-of-defeat ploy. otherwise-its exactly what is is: A small well-funded international campaign masquerading as some 'grass-roots' student awareness movement that is consistently losing on campuses throughout the US. Maybe the tide will turn and you will have the opportunity to gloat all you want but for right now 59 to 8 is nothing but a resounding FAIL

    • 59 against/8 in favor.

  • U.S. is 'closely following' Israel's killing of 2 youths at demo, seeks 'transparent' investigation
    • I believe that when Palestinians stop treating any militant who murders an Israeli Jew (or Arab) as a martyr and/or a hero will be the day that Israelis would learn a very good lesson about how their avowed enemy is changing and that they should be changing as well. I believe when Palestinian mothers stop making vids holding their babies and saying we would gladly give our beloved children for our cause.... and when Israelis stop hearing comments like "we love death more then you love life" as a type of war cry then maybe Israel will slacken its own war-time policies. But not before. People-both people-have to become sick and tired of fighting and when they are truly worn out-they will change.

  • What’s wrong with the ADL survey and how it could be improved
    • "An ADL study on anti-Semitism should be greeted with the same skepticism as a tobacco industry study on the effects of second-hand smoke."

      That is the same thing as saying the NAACP or SPLC studies on bigotry and racism should also be greeted with skepticism just like any study done by by big tobacco industry.

      Such a patently racist and bigoted comment that it defies reason and defiles the article out its outset and lays questions the motivations of the author. I can only imagine what hysteria would follow if someone had written that a Palestinian report on Israeli oppression should be taken in the same light as a report from Monsanto on the benefits of their GMO corn. Another case of sheer hypocrisy from annals of mw writers

  • 'Courting powerful Jewish donors,' Christie calls for aggressive foreign policy
    • Christie is worse then 'dumb". He is nothing but a glorified 'Tony Soprano' using his capos to twist arms and wring money out of not only the Port Authority (with the almost as bad Cuomo)but alos will to holf disaster relife money hostage to political endorsements at the expense of suffering NJ citizens. He was appointed as the most unqualified AG in New Jersey History solely as a reward for raising monies for Bush2 campaign. He has always functioned as a bully/arm twisting/enforcer-earner for the GOP who thought he was going to be rewarded with the top spot. F him and F his cronies. Who cares if he's "courting" big Jewish money? Israel has just proven for the second time in so many years that it has a place for politicians like Christie. Ask our ex-pres or PM.
      How many here really believe that there is a chance in hell the Christie will pay with time for his alleged crimes? How many think he'll skate by blaming his staff? And if there is any consolation-its that the big oaf most probably DID ruin his chance for the big spot. Though American voters can be awfully forgiving at exactly the wrong times. Israel also needs no friends like Christie-a dishonest player at his core.

  • Shalom Modi: India and Israel look to deepen ties following victory of the Hindu right
    • OMG. You want to hear stories about "worst travellers"? Ask some NYC hostesses at nicer restaurants and bars how 'Arabs' are perceived. You want to go down the slippery slope of bad-mouthing Israeli tourists (by siting some sources from articles devoted to IDF recruits in the late teens/early 20s going off the India on some 'spiritual' and drug infused decompression as if that is some kind of 'new' thing.
      Ever heard about all the US an Euro-trash hippies in the late60s/70s taking off for Morocco, Afghanistan, India and South Asia, etc for 'spiritual' enlightenment (ahem-Hash, horse, and hemp?) Its like judging all US travellers based on stats from spring break in Miami Beach or Cancun. Not bigotry there huh?
      And wander over to places where 'real' israelis like to travel like Kenya and other African nations where they are well liked and even loved since these Israelis have seen fit to bring their investment money down and invest in the infrastructure and improvement of many citizens lives. Say what you will about the 'tourism' industry-based on hedonism, lifestyle and money but Israel is absolutely no different then any other nation with a middle class willing to explore parts of the earth other then there own. Its very sad if the millions of Palestinians with official UN 'refugee' status can not get permission to travel from there host Arab nations but then fighting Israel seems a roundabout way of winning that battle.

    • Well, That is truly an inspiring story and all good fortune be upon S.Samuel but hopefully-anyone-in any country or 'land' would do the same thing. I am sure there are many Palestinians who would save a Jewish Israeli child from harms way just as an Israeli would save a Palestinian child-as they do in the hospitals regularly. Unfortunately-it is the cases where children are not 'saved' or 'helped' by nearby adults-by either shielding them from harms way when 'politics' takes center stage and the 'children' are used as political pawns.

      In Israel and the West Bank-both boulders smashed on top of passing cars, slingshotted rocks or rubber bullets fired from Israeli youths on their IDF duty do NOT discriminate when they hit their target and in those cases-it is hard to argue that children are not being 'targeted' though ALL sides deny that is the case

    • or:
      Balance between India:China, India:Iran(naval) And while some of the die-hard MW commentators may be salivating at the prospects a of a shifting alliance between Israel and the US [while ironically-at the same time-Zionist will likely be accused of extreme disloyalty, ingratitude, betrayal, etc.]

      The fact remains that in Israel there is a very strong desire to stay with what 98% of israel;is consider there best and most loyal friend and the nation that shares the most values with its own (or vise-versa). But with an administration in place with 3-more years that seems headed for appeasement of Iran against the wishes of most of its gulf region allies-added to the recent couched threats by Kerry and Obama that "bad things will happen if....." (which-in case nobody remembers has been a constant refrain by everyone high and low for going on 66+ years) it can come as no surprise that Israel would FINALLY unhitch some of its lines to the US FP model.
      While there is -imo-about a 50/50 chance that Iran-no matter what deal it strikes would honour it and there is even less of a chance that once nuclear Iran will NOT use the potential for regional power plays setting of g-d knows what response in the sunni/shi'a divide. That said-the threat of what seems like an inevitable nuke Iran will naturally start a massive re-aligning of regional policy and ot would only make sense that it would be away from US and EU goals.

      I try to look down the road to see what wisdom Obama is trying to figure out about Iranian appeasement. Russian appeasement. And a general pull-back in respnse to the Clinton-Bush years. There is the obvious: Russia is too prickly and strategically placed where antagonizing bare-chest Vlad risks far to much danger and pain. And that the Iranian people are no threat to any other nation and of course should have nuclear power but have mullahs that sit on billions and are perhaps the world best
      'negotiators' in that nothing they negotiate can be counted on. Israel-not being a natural, or strategic Persian enemy-the bomb is probably mostly bluster except for the psy-op it has with Israels war with the proxy Hezbollah.
      Take away any feelings one has for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and it is hard to deny that Israel branching out towards China and India,(russia, and Latin America and Canada too) only makes sense politically. And the US military/industrial complex makes too much damn money on the bonds it issues Israel for there to be any real worry Israel wont remain a staunch US ally. And as for the recent 'spy scandal"? Nothing but anti-Israel clap-trap by a known anti-Israel ex-CIA along with a still 'mysterious' congressional aide. uh-huh.
      As if the industrial spying France and China committed gaining them stealth and drone specs where not destructive. Or the US own failing dropping a drone into Iran? Or having Chinese ex-pats who worked in sensitive military jobs re-patriating after having worked on the most secretive of US projects. The 'big' expose on those "obnoxious" and "can't be humiliated" Jews was nothing more then a dying(or dead) former news rags last hurrah by scandalizing with a race/Jew/Israel baiting piece that reflects the views of only a few within the dept.

      I look forward to the day when an Israeli leader who enjos the kind of stability Netanyahu has enjoyed will advocate a policy of shrinking the amount a aide (mostly in bonds-though Israel-haters love to lie and say its some kind of 'welfare' instead of loans. As many in the US would jump up,and oppose this as would certain Israeli hawks) But the fact remains that Israel could easily survive with a massive reduction in US aide.

      Add India into this fold and it could easily be a win-win as far as the US is concerned.
      with no intractable conflict (xcpt Kashmir-which is definitely NOT an example Palestinians would want to have brought up with tis 3-state solution] that-no matter how 'political' always erupts into a religious [muslim/jew/christian] conflagration.

      Anyway-its always interesting to see how well MW'sers can contain themselves whenever Israel branches out further into the world body. Anything short of a tight containment and lashing to anyone but the US upsets the status quo and the standard anti-Zionist memes don't hold much water. (I had to laugh at one of the crowd above kay, or was it? amerc-?- SUDDENLY citing the evidence of how 'poor poor' Harry Truman (yes-the Harry that pressed the button on the bomb!) was bullied! -yes absolutely 'terrified' of defying the Zionist fighting for partition as if the publication of John Judis book splayed all over MW pages was just a mere coincidence. News flash! Judis' book will not be a seminal tome)

      So-Israel and India -both somewhat born from the same post ww2 world re-alignment are continuing on trajectories not bound by any other script except that which their own majorities have voted. That the world can not be continually held back by one peoples-above all others (links? there is only one group of people on earth who have been given perpetual and retroactive refugee status and I am certain that there are serval dozens of other true and current refugees that would be appreciative of official UN refugee status-eternal or just temporary) quest to have their own state without a treaty that will guarantee the end of the conflict absolutely. It matters not what lands are ceded or switched but only that a mechanism is in place that whatever the treaty accomplishes at its outset is the final and terminal negotiation for an end to the conflict. I imagine Indians, Kasmiri's and Pakistanis want no less for themselves too but

    • kay an talkc: working yourselves into a frnzy trying to prove how 'hated' Israel is while everyonbe from the largest to smallest nations in the world (outsoide the few Arab states that observe a physical boycott-though they go through back channels often) are clamouring for Israeli technical, military, medical and agro advancements that help there nations and people live better lives. And of course Israel does all this as part of some insidious 'plot' you keep imagining and forever 'linking' to (in you on sphere of circular links). It almost the very definition of obsessive 'hatred'

      But what is amusing is not that its surprising you would jump all over an avowed Zionist, such as myself but that the posters that are Indian, trying to explain how they see their own election-decidedly NOT in terms of any vast Zionist conspiracy but in terms of their own lives ar subject on mw to the full 'nazi/zionist/bigoted/muslim-hating' treatment that seems hardwired to spew forth.
      And the above 'gaul and umbrage' taken that a poster 'threatened' this ultra-liberal view with "anger' was pretty ironic considering the 100s of threats I have read on mw concerning that Zionists 'just wait and see whats coming down the road for them'.

      While the world grows smaller in many aspects it would behoove those with regional conflicts to take note that what has been obsessively followed in the US and EU press for decades is nothing more then a small distraction for humans concerned with myriad problems of survival in other far flung area of Earth and the Palestinian problem-though drawing sympathy for the most part-will not draw on the kind of bleeding heart support smothered in deep disgust and hatred for all-things-Israel/Zionist
      that eminates from the corners of western marxist/socialist/far-left disappointments of the so-called 'civil society' and human-rights groups that mostly are nothing close to civil or concerned with human rights in general-only specific.

      Can't wait until Israel rolls out its next 5-year plan to expand ties with Latin nations in SA and CA. Of course be competing with networks set up by Iran through Hezbollah but there is evidently much room for not only competition but coöperation.

    • you seem to be having some sort of mental breakdown. your little hysterical 'synopsis' of negativism and bigotry seems to suggest you blame Israel for every bad thing that has happened in the world since its creation and then ypu wonder why anyone would suggest you have a problem with Jews.
      You might want to try calming yourself before you blow a gourd. I feel sorry for you that the entire world is not as consumed with hatred for Israel as you and your small clique of compatriots are.

    • India getting "too big for its britches" is an overly rich statement with the stench od bigotry as well. With over a billion human beings having to be sustained and a landmass almost continental in size the comment is absurd. And crediting Israel as the secondary reason for Indias growth rather then the changes made by Indians themselves is patronizing and small minded. You suffer from the disease of too much Israel in your brain which clouds your path to reason and logic.

    • the Israeli shift to east Asia, China and Russia has been predicted for years and it is no surprise that the plans are coming to fruition. The totally hysterical claims by MW posters about the Hindu party being sympathetic towards 'nazis' is more then a joke in terms of todays political landscape. There is very little if any 'hard-wired' Jew-hatred in India or Asia as compared to the kind of Jew-hatred common to Europe and Russia. Like anywhere-including Israel and India-there are pockets of bigotry but this is completely insignificant in terms of their natural inclination towards friendly coöperation. And lastly-Israel is not a naturally 'Muslim-hating' nation as almost all polling statistics have shown. India's Muslims are not an obstacle to Indo-Israeli relations unless India;s Muslims choose to make it so.

  • This just in: Glenn Greenwald was never bar mitzvahed
    • one doesn't have to like Glen Greenwald (and I, for one, do not particularly) to appreciate the importance of the info he is disseminating. Whatever dog he has in the race-and I fully expect he has one-it still doesn't trump the information-which, those in the US especially, are entitled to. Other then gossip, which has always been a big part of mainstream media [and to which this author IGz ascribes no matter how he puts his lipstick on it] I don't see what the discussion is about and why it is relevant to anyone but GG and those that come into direct contact with said member.

      *also-all the stupid jokey comments about 'goy' jew and zionist seem to leave out the matter of Palestinian Muslims also being circumcised though the difference between the two is specificity of age.

  • After first visit to Israel, 'Foreign Policy' editor says religious, garrison state has 'passed its sell-by date'
  • Historical whitewash: Great Britain must be held accountable for its role in the Nakba
    • oh yes please do "remind" me how its all "Arab" land and then tell me where the "Arabs" came from little mister doesnt-know-his ass-from-his-face-about-colonizing

    • When the 66yr+ war is over and a treaty is signed that guarantees that the conflict is over and that further generations of my people wont have to produce soldiers willing to lay down their lives to exist on a small strip of land that no matter what foolish tripe you try and use to pretend that Jerusalem was never the spiritual and ancient capital of the Jewish people and is merely an 'experiment' (and for g-d sakes...your using SYRIA as an example? Do you have any idea of how many suffering Syrian refugees would coming flying across the border if there was no stigma attached to an Arab excepting help from a Jew-let alone and Israeli?)
      When one and his family and fellow citizens have paid the price in blood along with the ultimate sacrifice-you can lecture me about "respect". I respect people one at a time-be they Arab or Jew. I don't belive that Israel exists becuase of guilt over the Shoah. And I don't support those who use the Shoah to promote the existence of Israel except in the historical context of the years after ww2 when the culmination of the Arab, Turkic and European age of empires was flying apart at the seams and Jews had to fight for every inch of the land that is now israel.

    • I actually do not have to 'prove' my respect to anybody as I and those I have known paid the not only the price in blood but the ultimate sacrifice. So-while I already said I do not begrudge the Palestinians their right to fight for what they want I owe no person any explanation as to why I am alive and how I have chosen to fight for my family and people. When the Palestinians are persuaded to sign a treaty ending the conflict I will show all due respect to what horrors the 66yr+ war has inflicted. But until that state of warfare is over-all bets are off.

      You should read up on your own Civil War and how brother fought bother, Son against Father, Husband against wife. It was a seething drawn out horror with death many 100s of times what has befallen the Palestinians and Israelis. But in lulls after great catastrophes-the two sides often mingled and co-existed as if no war had been declared. So, I choose to hedge my bets on any 'respect' owed to anyone who might gladly cut my throat and take my home.
      And I'll tell you a little secret: I know many Jews who harp on the Shoah as the main reason for supporting Israel-right or wrong. But to me (and many many others around here its total BS. The shoah was only the crowning achievment of what went on for a few 100 years before. And no-the Arabs were not required to pay for the sins of the European jew-haters but no more then the Jews are required to pay for the sins of the colonial conquests and manipulations of the Arab, Turkic and Euro empires that went before. I just see it simply as an ongoing war that will hopefully end one day.
      But like your Abe Lincoln you was urged many times to end the war before he could be totally assured that even after his death slavery could not be revisited-Israelis will not likely sign a treaty that will provide any chance that they will have to continue fighting. So-unless we are beaten to submission or presented with a treaty that a majority of citizens can live with-it will continue on. No smug-for that is a soldiers sin in my book but sadly and with a burden that I suppose many Jews in the world are either too naive,(take that idiot Rothkopf e.g.) to weak, too assimilationist , too stupid or too hopeful to be of much use for the next decade or so.

      But then humans are sometimes surprising and I never give out hope of that.

    • well-there are those numbers of supposedly 'devout' believers in Islam and Christianity- a few billion maybe? According to their own sacred books there is a pretty big historical connection between Jerusalem, its surrounding hills and other trifling little details that pronounce this connection to the words of the g-d they believe in so readily. Like the Quran ceding the 'land' to that tribe of Jews and the whole Jesus thing.

      But must be trying to trick me into separating out the early theoretical Zionists from the land of Israel when if not for the land of Israel there never would have been need for a Zionist movement of any kind. I do know dear that the early 20thC zionists were just another high-falluting political upstart that dotted the whole of Europe-east and west as well as other movements in Turkey and some parts of the middle east, S+N America too.

      Still-you may be able to take the Jew out of Jerusalem but you can not take the Jerusalem out of Jew-no matter how you cut it up.

      And forgive me, but I am still clueless as to the argument you insist you have won by my not 'referencing' something you think you can shoot down. If you don't like ANY of the archeological evidence I can site the hundreds of times Jerusalem is written in the Bible-which is regarded as an early religio-history of the Jews. Or even more specific how many times the prayer "next year in Jerusalem" is spoken. Even the least religious of Jews are surely aware of this.

      And I don't even have to imply that the Jews have any given right to Jerusalem as I don't believe ANY people have ANY given* (*the fact I do not agree that Israel was "given" at all but it was FOUGHT for and won is an entirely different argument which I haven't been paid for [yet] to make;). The land they stood on for the first 19 yrs was not considered 'occupied' by any of the world body except by Egypt and Jordan ) right to ANY land and time after time-man[kind] has proven this concept and made the world in which we live. I don not begrudge the Palestinians for fighting for what they want as I simply doubt is is a peace treaty where Jews (or Christians for that matter) have any sovereignty over their holiest places . Israel and its capital will have to be fought for and preserved as a Jewish city where muslims and Christians retain their rights to pray and maintain their own holy places. The fact that some zealots believe that al-aqsa will tumble and a 3rd temple rebuilt is religious fantasy. Just like Mohamed ascending on a winged horse and Jesus coming with the rapture. But as for Zionism-a particularly Jewish form of collectivism, determinism and identity being divorced from the land of Israel and jerusalem? I suppose people desperate to be right avoid the obvious such as considering the following snippet:

      "Since the 10th century BCE Jerusalem has been the holiest city, focus and spiritual center of the Jews. Jerusalem has long been embedded into Jewish religious consciousness and Jews have always studied and personalized the struggle by King David to capture Jerusalem and his desire to build the Holy Temple there, as described in the Book of Samuel and the Book of Psalms. Many of King David's yearnings about Jerusalem have been adapted into popular prayers and songs. Jews believe that in the future the rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem will become the center of worship and instruction for all mankind and consequently Jerusalem will become the spiritual center of the world.

      Now...even if this never happens which it will not likely do-isn't the almost entirety of European empire (through the bible+new test) and the entirety of the Arab conquests (Mohamed and the Quran) based upon this simple connection of one tribal-ehtnicity and its connection to the land since 1000 years BC? I guess I lose the debate. I'm not surprised

    • not doubting it was, at its inception, a project or 'experiment' per se but its no longer either project or experimental no matter how much one wishes it so. and it always had to do with the history of the land. even if other more absurd locations were considered at various times.

    • So you (and so many others) have been saying for going on 66 years now. ho-hum.

    • Okay. You have me. The first Zionist's simply picked Israel and Jerusalem out of a hat. No context whatsoever. Really. I am so convinced now.

    • the 'zionist experiment' [lol*] had nothing to do with Jewish history in the land. oh please. i thought this was going to be a serious piece.

      * I suppose one could refer to Jordan, Saudi A, Syria and even the USA as "projects' or "experiments" as well.

  • Israelis are in Nigeria to help search for girls -- Susan Rice
    • what on earth are you talking about. A 50 member crack penetration team may be the extent of Israeli 'assistance'. Nobody on earth is going to contribute more then a few 1000-if even a few 100-support teams to aid the Nigerians. Not only would it be absurd on part of other nations but the Nigerians would never stand for it and probably don't need anything other then logistics, high-tech teams and some general help. G-d forbid it should be Israel which from the sound of things would be MW fans worst nightmare. So much for any concern for the poor girls.

    • PW: consistently praying for Israel to snatch failure out of the jaws of victory. g-d forbid the team of Israelis should have ANY success because after all-they have absolutely NO experience with this kind of operation. And in all honesty-what nation wouldn't want to help in such a cause? cynicism in the face of hope-another defining characteristic of MW.

  • Israel lobbyist Ronald Lauder denounces movie star Danny Glover for boycott call
    • Danny Glover is not important enough to be 'blacklisted' in any context within the hollywood system. His career has been mostly devoted to political cases since his heyday as well. He has enough sympathetic freinds within the system to allow him to work on independant films here and there. But he hasn't been even on the 'c' list for a long time. Nobody muffles his activism or speec and he is about as relevant to Americans as is Waters and O.Stone. If the make a decent movie above or outside of their leftwing obsessions they can still enjoy some popularity-such as Stones last 'crime' drama on pot growers. I think Glover was in an 'interesting' but not very wel;l known film about the ghosts of US slavery.
      However-like I said-if sites like EI and MW didn't screech bloody murder every time a has been like Waters and/or Glover makes a comment I doubt many at all-regardless of their position-take much notice. And the list of 'A' and 'B' celebrity and power acts that continue to play and interact publicly with Israel so far exceeds the few cranks who continue to pursue what they believe is thier righteous cause that it only matters within the pro-BDS community. The only 'success' I would admit to on the BDS side is the overwhelming response that come from Israel and its lobby to keep pounding at this msg. so as to limit any spread. But afaict, there has been no big spread at all. The 'A' list is as impressive as ever before. Chalk it up to Israeli paranoia or over-sensitivity in media/celeb culture but I don't see any throngs rushing to join Waters, Glover, Walker, etc except their usual crowd of fans

  • 'San Jose Mercury News' runs many pictures of Israeli children caressing guns
    • on this point I agree

    • Kay:
      You have yet to see pictures...? Have you been living in a rabbit hole for the past 20 years. Just google: Image of palestinian baby dressed as suicide bomber and see what comes up. These are not images taken by 'hasbarists' as you might claim but by proud and jubilant Palestinians celebrating the impending martyrdom of their children if that is what it comes to. (im not saying they don't value their children-of course they do but many Palestinian parents have willingly paraded their kids in both Gaza and the West Bank decked out in all sorts of military and militant paraphenalia from suicide bomb vests to AKs and toy grenade launchers all to show they would rather sacrifice their children in the 'resistance' to the so-called 'zionist entity' then ever except a treaty where all of what they consider their rights would be sacrificed. It not an indictment of them or this particular cultural offshoot of Palestinian resistance. It simply is. No more or no less then Israeli children playing mock baby war games to prove the same but opposite point.
      Your condemnation of one side over the other proves nothing except your own bias and possible bigotry and racism as well.

    • "human slaughtering equipment" Well. that about sums up the hyperbole and hysteria that marks your side of the PR campaign. If you really want to weep read the reports from Business J. and Econ rags about Israels shift to east Asia where it doesn't have to fight every second against a delegitimization campaign rooted in archaic european anti-semitism, marxism, socialism and good old left-wing bleeding heart liberalism turned-on-its-head. None of the stratagies being employed now against Israel are in the slightest bit 'new'. Arabs-long before any occupation of the west bank or Jerusalem tried to boycott Israel out of existence as well as threaten all sorts of dire consequences in store for the 'zionist entity' which seems to keep chugging along. Somehow-I don't thinkl the 5000 year old culture of China or India repleat with many conquests and slaughters along the way are going to have much difficulty building its economic and military relationships with the Jews in israel because there just isn't a deep-seated core of hostility to jews and any accomplishments they have made. I would like to think that Palestinians will ot let time pass them by by holding out for a deal that sets things up so they can eventually 'reclaim' all of what they consider their land.
      I don't really expect you to see things in this way, however, since you belive in moral absolutes and seem to think there is actually a 'right' and 'wrong' side not a dominant side that negotiates a treaty with a less dominant 'enemy'. Israelis have much less problems seeing the palestinians as full blooded humans then your characterization of crazy religious fanatics as 'nazi-like' Jews (which is only equalled in the characterization by many mainstream Arab religious leaders characterizing the Jews as 'sons of pigs and apes)

    • Do you people even know how many hundreds of photos are in existence of Palestinian babies dressed as suicide bombers complete with paper 'bomb belts' older kids with toy rocket launchers, or "caressing" as you say AKs and other arms. If your point is that now Israeli parents have stooped to the level of animosity displayed by Palestinians then its a valid point. Otherwise-it just shows how intractable the conflict is. Not much different then how the southern US civilians demonized the mechanized and faceless warmongers of the north while the northern press aka Horace Greely demonized the south as rebellious and retarded barbarians hiding behind 'polite' mannerisms and false glory. In the end-and in the midst of ruinous battles the two sides often found themselves mingling like the two neighborous peoples they once had been. If this sites fans can not see that they function as a pr arm of one side, and one side only of the conflict it would behoove them to read a little more history about warfare and its often humdrum affect on its subsequent populations.

  • De Blasio mended AIPAC pander by kissing up to J Street
    • While PW may not think there is a "dime's worth of difference" between the two lobbies there is no doubt that many so-called 'liberal zionists' are starting to see J-street for the joke that it is. At least AIPAC speaks for the Israeli gov't(whichever coalition is in power) while J-street speaks for a radical few elite and hard-core left wing Jews who can't make up their minds how much public contempt they should display and convey over their distaste for not only Netanyahu (one of the most cohesive PMs in Israeli history) but their utter contempt for mainstream American Zionists including Christians and jews alike. Witness their attacking a young black woman journalist/opinion writer in racist terms because she comes from a culture of the US civil rights movement that embraced and loved the Jewish community and their Zionist dream. That extremely vile public attack on Chloe Valdana or J-streets ugly bigoted personification on college campuses with its J-u street groups was so disgusting as to prove for many once and for all that J-street represents a most reprehensible block of hard-left Jews whose contempt for Israel is much greater then any 'love' they supposedly express for its continued existence

  • Amos Oz uses the n-word-- calls settler zealots 'neo-Nazis'
  • South African radicals wanted to kill Paul Simon for violating boycott -- Steve Van Zandt
    • and mean while, in the real [POST Apartheid South Africa] world, the list of big name players eager and happy to play in Israel continues to grow:
      Alicia Keys, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Rihanna, Madonna, Depeche Mode, Moby, the Pet Shop Boys, Aerosmith, Celine Dion, Lady Gaga, Justin Timberlake, Barbra Streisand, and in a couple weeks the Stones.

      And then there is Roger Waters and a couple of other has-beens. hmm. What a crazy world.

  • A cruel fantasy: 'NYT' sets hopes on US principles for a peace deal
    • What a lie. 4th largest military? Israel doesn't even make the top 10. Talk about ridiculous hyperbole...sheesh.

      Rank Country Army Personnel
      1. China 1600000
      2. India 1100000
      3. North Korea 950000
      4. South Korea 560000
      5. Pakistan 550000
      6. USA 477800
      7. Vietnam 412000
      8. Turkey 402000
      9. Iraq 375000
      10. Russia 321000

  • #SDSUdivest: Divestment leads the social justice agenda at San Diego State University
    • "what truly killed the bill was......."

      the 16-3-3 vote. any assumption the majority didn't 'understand' or lacked "criticle thinkng" is strictly wishful thinking on bds's part. there have been many more defeats of bds lately then wins. nothing indicates this trend will swing. in fact-students against bds are becoming more organized but of course that is attributed by the bds to the 'big bad zionist' machine when in fact its the same kind of organizing that backs these bds movements. bds lies whn it claims its 'grassroots' as its well known that major funding comes from pro-Palestinian-pro-bds orgs with Barghouti calling most of the shots

  • 'Flotilla' was flying: Our horse at Meydan
    • elj & tanaka
      "at least..." ?
      still scraping the bottom of the barrel and defending the owners of qatar. typical
      short-sighted and bigoted thinking

    • what a joke to be talking up the owners of Qatar to denigrate Israel. Normally its called scraping the bottom of the barrel. But I am certain the people here have a much different reality to base there bigotry upon.
      And I can just imagine what the animal rights activists would have to say about horse racing in general.

      And then imagine if the horse were israeli owned, everyone here would be clamouring for bds while kissing the butts of so-called 'great' sheiks who love the Palestinian people so well.

  • When Yitzhak Rabin met Marek Edelman: A story for Holocaust Remembrance Day
    • "While Zionist parties urged Jews to leave and emigrate to Palestine, the Bund took up the call for Doikeyt or Living Here and Now. The critical problems of Jewry needed to be resolved, not by escaping from the hard realities of everyday life, but by addressing "them, Here and Now, in Poland, by means of an energetic political and cultural program.

      At the heart of the Bund's vision was the creation of a modern, secular and culturally autonomous Jewish society which would strive for the ideals of Socialism and for the rights of the Jewish working class. Yiddish, the centuries-old vernacular of Polish Jewry and the language of the majority of Jews in interwar Poland, would be the national language of this new society."

      Oh, and that worked out really well for them. Over in Russia too. And its not like Jews didn't live in productive societies for long stretches of time without undue harrassment or violence. However-their 'Jewishness' was always a factor and in Muslim oriented dynasties (e.g. Persia, then Ottoman) Jewish automatically meant Dhimmitude (which is still practiced today against Christian and Jew in Muslim nations).
      However-there is no way to predict what would have happened and modern Israel has not been around long enough to prove either the doomsayers or the Zionist dreamers to be accurate in their long term vision for Israel. The oddsmakers in Vegas I would imagine would have a pretty good handle on that. As do the founders/ceo's of the fortune 500.

  • Five reasons the breakdown of peace talks is a good thing
    • you may find what normF write is removed "from reality" but that is because you are on the insulated far left fringe and have no clue about any 'reality' other then your obsession with BDS and destroying Zionism. Here on earth amongst the people that span the center-left/center right (you know-the 90% ) in the US or Israel (and who knows whats with the EU as they are a sinking ship as well)
      Only deluded revisionists try to turn the very well documented Arab attempt through many wars to wipe out the 'Zionist Entity' and turn everything upside down so as to claim that it all was a clever plan of the Jews. {cue up your 'plan dalit' tapes}
      The bulk of the world does not deny that the Arabs tried to destroy the Jews and wipe out Israel. Nor do they claim that Israel is innocent of any crimes or policy mistakes made during years of occupation. Now they what Israel to lay down and give up the sovereignty they won through organization, money, honor, loyalty and blood-the same traits that Israel's enemies claim to possess in vast quantities as well. But they want Israel do do this while convincing the world that the Jews in Israel arent really giving up anything. Its all going to be a bi-national multicultural democracy based on all the other experienced Arab regimes in the neigborhood.
      And the question is not wether Israel PREFERS to sustain the occupation as it does not. The question is-until the Arab nations and Palestinian people recognize that Zionism is the core of the Jewish state of Israel and NO AMOUNT of law-fare, semantics and games is going to 'trick' the Jews into giving up their sovereignty. When the Palestinians accept a proposal that does not lead to the eventual destruction of the Zionist State-the world will see an Israel who is will to make a lonf lasting deal. But make no mistake that it can reluctantly or not reluctantly sustain itself for a very long time under the present situation. The world has MANY more destructive and potentially threatening global conflicts and issues to hyper-focus on a piece of land the size of New Jersey. The 'bds' is having a bit of a high moment for now but is essentially failing on most of its major petitions. BDS claims 'defeats' as 'victories' so it gets confusing.

      When bds changes its by-laws-you may accuse normF of living in a "disconnected" world but until then-=I think he knows exactly what world he lives in

  • Mark Halperin excommunicates Rand Paul, over Israel
    • personally-i think you might be underestimating the hay that the GOP is going to make out of the diminishing status of the US in FP. Regardless of where the blame lies-and there is plenty of blame for the GOP-I suspect that the only candidate the GOP has a real chance with is either an x-military or FP background. Unless of course they dig up a character like Reagan (which would be their w-dream). Hillary is coming off much stronger on FP and could make a case for strengthening it more then could Paul. While Paul might lure some Dems-I would bet that Hillary could lure a lot of upscale republican women in the upper-middle to middle class. It will be exciting nonetheless.

    • agree. If not now-soon enough it will be. lobbies lobbies lobbies

    • so much concern for 100s of 1000s of the Syrian war victims I can feel oozing from your being. But anything and everything if it defeats anything AIPAC.

  • Palestinian youth say the talks with Israel are futile
    • I understand that 100s of olive trees were purchased and used to decorate projects within Israel. I also am aware of shady deals made in dark corners where Israelis of ill repute buy stolen trees from Palestinians OR steal them outright in acts of crime. I am also aware of acts of sabotage whereby radical settlers have uprooted Palestinian olives. But I am alo aware of Palestinian acts of 'resistance where actors set huge swaths of national park and forrest ablaze. I don't condone the uprooting of ANY trees in general. I teach and practice advanced Bonsai and have much experience with ME trees. I will admit: trees are innocent of politics and should be left completely out of the conflict-though I know, like everything else, (including disputing the 'worlds oldest tree'), it won't be.

    • no. much easier to search onlone databases to find ALL the so-called 'oldest trees' and while I found what I expected ie: bristlecones, Japanese conifers and even the "oldest olive tree" in Lebanon, I simply did not see this tree in any of the top few geological/arbor sites and concluded that -while it may be very old (and 5000yrs for an olive tree not likely-3000 at best) it is not the 'old' part thats of such value. Your really an old geezer if you don't understand why its more valuable to claim "the Israelis confiscated the oldest tree in the world" And if I really have to explain it...well then its probably too late

    • "the oldest known tree in the world.....confiscated by Isreal.." ? I thought the oldest trees were in Ca. USA. Or Norway. or even Lebanon. Bristlecone pines. The Methuselah in Ca. (which I saw, wow) In a conflict where EVERYTHING is disputed and used for point scoring I normally wouldnt' quibble about an olive tree but I csan;'t even find this tree on the first 5 google hits for biggest trees in world. I'm sure its precious but when you say 'Israel confiscated the oldest tree in the world' it has a bit more propagandistic punch then an old tree...may it live forever

  • Stephen Walt: publishing 'Israel lobby' ended any thought of serving in US gov't
    • another convoluted point of rebuttal. Walt would be only judged on waht he said or wrote in this life while Sharon, (and Lincoln, Sadat, Begin, Stalin, FDR, Truman, etc) is only to be based on what he 'could have' done or maybe it was what he 'did' or didnt' do. And why this would be.........dont have a clue. I already forgot again. I think I know whats bugging you but its hard to spit out it would seem

    • No. I am saying that unless one knows Walt personally-and well-its hard to assess character from an obviously hostile interview. You are free to do as you chose and judge Walt as upstanding as you please. You can admire his work, his motivations, his politics, etc. Of course by your standards Lincoln, both Bushes, Obama, Sharon, Begin, Sadat and any other so-called 'peacemaker' like Stalin, Mao and one and on has to be judged as a war criminal. I don't know in what world you are living in but it is usually not the innocent that make hard and long lasting peace treaties. Most, if not all leaders of powerful nations (and org's) have blood on their hands.

      And I have no idea if if Walt has any blood on his hands but that is not the criteria for character that is being referred to here. And as far as I know, Walt may be a great guy-but its hard to believe he worked on such a large thesis and then was completely surprised there were any-both positive and negative-repercussions.

      If it makes you feel any better-I doubt Walt hates Jews but that is kind of like constantly pointing out that Jews are over represented in powerful organizations and complaining that it has nothing to do with Jew-hatred. Its nice and fine to actually beleive that but not so fine to divorce yourself from the reality that hyper-focusing creates. Its a conundrum.

    • i don't see how one can judge Walts 'character' from an interview with an Israeli left-wing paper. He is surely intelligent enough to know how to come off to a public that he may or may not want to expose himself to. Especially in the Israeli press. I am not questioning Walts character either. Simply stating that its easy enough to present yourself as one wishes. Or don't you believe that you can't believe everything you read
      in the press? I have heard many interviews with past PM Sharon where he came off as measured, reasonable, non-bigoted, pragmatic and willing to sacrifice for peace but I doubt you would consider him as "big".

      Walt said nothing new other then that now that he wrote what he wrote his own prospects are also compromised because of the 'lobby' but of course he wouldn't take that personally would he? Not that a controversial book about Jews that is taken as serious work is ever bad for business.

  • Updated: Remote-control gun installed atop wall near Bethlehem -- Ma'an
    • and I would also 'say' that the remote controlled 'machine' guns on top of turrets in Gaza are hardly any different then tank turrets except that a rocket propelled anti-tank grenade would be less effective in killing the operator in the tower or remote locale. But then Israel should absolutely take no measures to protect its soldiers from enemy fire.

    • your argumentative skills rival that of many Jews I know. However- your starting to drift into the area where -e.g. Quakers-its not presumed that anybody or group has any right to own land in any capacity and all borders should cease to exist. The American 1st nations also thought the concept land ownership absurd. But it did not stop them from warring with competing tribes -and not some eurocentrics vision of a 'noble savage' war but really nasty wars with women captured as chattel and mutilations. But imagine a middle east without any borders, free trade and complete freedom of and separation of religion from state. crazy.

    • "(this coming from a Palestinian....journalism..)"

      What can I say? MW corrected the "machine gun" conjecture but then does EXACTLY what it accuses pro-Zionists of doing-mentioning the fact that a Palestinian journalist confirmed the non-gun issue-while implying that only a Palestinian source could be trusted on this matter. Exactly what commenters here claim Israel does when confirming stories sympathetic to Palestinians-asking if there were any Israeli/Jewish reporters suggesting the exact opposite. What a mess. While I have a decidedly anti-MW pov-I can say with complete candor that BOTH sides in this long running conflict are a mess. Nobody is untainted with sheer hysterical propaganda. Nobody has a hold on any 'truth'. And nobody is going to "go down soon" like so many here predict. It can't be wished and as obnoxious as 'stink water' may be it is equally as obnoxious to have a lemon sized rock conk you on your head/person after being flung by a leather sling at 100s of (and yes, i know)
      Lets put it this way: I would rather be hit with a slung rock then a bullet. I would rather be shot with a bean bag then hit with a rock from a sling. I would rather be sprayed with stink water then be shot with either a rubber bullet, bean bag or a rock. I would rather not have to contemplate any of the above options but that is not reality. What some see as escalating others see as de-escalating. Imagine how much more obnoxious it would be if we put up huge posters of Netanyahu facing the territories like they do in...wherever. I would bet the Palestinians would be more upset about that then the wall mounted riot control

    • so..not only is this articles 'headline' false in that these mounts do not shoot bullets but the peanut gallery looks up their vast library of anti-Israeli propaganda to prove that Israel does indeed have some form of remote controlled munitions (duh) which do not subject the operators to direct fire as if that is such a horrible thing. Better Israel force its female soldiers to come under direct fire from Palestinian militants because-uh-thats what real macho nations do. And the attitude that Israel just 'comes up with these inventions' willy nilly-w/o any reason whatsoever as if it were 'fun' as referenced by the 'joy-stick' commentary is as bigoted and racist as anything anti-zionists ever accused of.
      I know...better the border guards be physically stationed with guns on the towers because that is much less intimidating. And maybe, its less dangerous to all concerned that its more difficult to intimidate a faceless machine during all the peaceful 'pebble' throwing protests. The crowd can't gage the reaction and a pebble/stone/rock striking a machine on its ear is less likely to incite a reaction. Of course I am sure to hear how this makes no sense at all and I am a 'brainwashed' something or other and blahdeedahdeedah

  • Alleged K.C. killer: 'If Jews can have a state of their own, why can't we have a White Christian state?'
    • max seems pretty willing to except that this inciden proves Israel makes Jews less safe rather then more. However-based on what and how he writes he will never ever understand what the majority of American and Israeli Jews do. That incidents like these would be ten times as frequent without the existence of Israel. And luckily for Max and his raison d'etre nobody can prove this until Israel is dismantled as the Jewish Nation which isn't going to happen for a very long time.

  • It's time to reveal the Israeli role in the US surveillance machine
  • 'Secret' London conference seeks to link BDS to... terrorism
    • its just the 'next' thing cad. no need to get all that excited. yes, bds has succeeded in inserting itself more prominently into the conversation (or 'war of ideas') and it is a very clever ploy. how to push what seems like a legitimate campaign of protest while disguising the fact that the movement actually DOES call for the destruction of Israel as the nation/state of the Jewish people. In fact-if bds was not linked to the complete delegitimization of Israel it would probably be an even more effective strategy to bring about peace. But as usual, the enemies of Israel can not contain themselves and once past the surface gloss-it is too easy to find the fine print (now bolded) that its not just about a negotiated settlement-Its about returning whatever the number now is-6 million?- descendants of Palestinians from pre-48 back to inside the green line while also giving up the old Jewish quarter of Jerusalem along with all of the WB ......AND!! the elimination of Jewish sovereignty over ANY of the land. period.

  • The Jewish community must not embrace Ayaan Hirsi Ali
    • After watching her partner Van Gogh slaughtered in the streets for insulting islam she may have felt a little bit threatened. She spoke out and politicians on the left dug up some dirt on her finding descrepancies in her visa and threatened [again]and she was offered some form of 'protection' from AEI. I believe the gov't then backed off but with {radical-not mainstream} Muslim bounties (Fatwahs) on the heads of the cartoonist and herself-I suppose she fled.
      I would be willing to wager BIG time that were Ms. Hirsi anti-Zionist she would be one of the most popular speakers on the left wing circuit

  • Israel's brand rides high on NPR
    • NPR : April 10, 2012 broadcast of the Talk of the Nation call-in show, persists in relying on Lebanon-based journalist Rami Khouri as a guest on discussion shows in which he frequently conveys misinformation about Israel and the Middle East. ISP detailed Khouri’s tendency to snipe at Israel here, here and here.

      2) Diane Rehm has frequently stacked the deck against Israel in her NPR talk show. The latest example is her May 23 2012 show, “President Obama, the Middle East, and the Arab Spring,” where she provided a platform for the anti-Israel rhetoric of Hisham Melhem, an anti-Israel polemicist employed as an Arab newspaper/television journalist. Melhem took advantage of his platform, criticizing Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu in the most unprofessional way:

      Look, this is Netanyahu. We know where Netanyahu comes from… President Bill Clinton … used the F-word [in the 1990s].

      I'll just list two. I know that CAMERA got involved with a thrid and I know you probably see them as nazi'botzo whatevers so I didn;t liost them.
      Ira Glass on This American Life di a decidedly unAmerican show on the IDF using photos of young teen Palestinians with absolutely NO EXPLANATION FOR THE POLICY and so it came off as disturbing in the extreme (which I would say-it might have come off that way anyway even with an explanation. An explanation might have made the actions seem even weaker but the fact they werent supplied fueled the anti_israel bias. I had a chance to ask Ira what he thought and he (honsetly) said he was not aware of ANY tit-for-tat proIsr/proPal in his show. My point was it was reflecting on Israeli life not American. The Vasser or UMich might have been more apropo. But I did accept his premise as he just 'seemed' believable. Not sure why.
      I tend to agree with donald that the NPR of the past 7 years pales in comparison to the NPR of the 90s. Its less then half the station it used to be on all accounts.

    • wow! that is really interesting...bringing up a case against NPR from 1997! If NPR were anything like the NPR I remember from 1997 we would all be in better shape as the programming was better , the shows were fresher, Terry Gross wasn't so annoying and guess what? I still remember friends in the US arguing that NPR was "too anti-Israel" or "too Zionist". It seems like-as for as NPR goes-nothing much changes.

    • that's pretty funny jn. i guess your referring to my post where I brought it up in response to all the negativity on mw and i totally expected that post to be ridiculed, scoffed at and delegitimized. I even thought the microbiologist herself would have been accused of 'collaborating with the enemy', drinking 'coolaid' and so forth.
      And as for your NPR? I have heard as many reports from them that focus solely on negative aspects of israel to ever believe that they function in tandem with anything even remotely close to a pro-Zionist standpoint. At best they are here-and-there on the issue. Sometimes balanced, sometimes pro-Pal.and sometime pro-Isr.

      As for your quip about my being paid or prompted to post here I find it humourous as nobody I know in gov't would ever waste time on a dedicated hardcore site like mw. Israeli 'hasbara' (as you like to call it) would more likely focus on mainstream outlets where hearts and minds are not ossified into a piece of carbon the size of a pebble. I understand it is you who feel that Zionist are the ones with no heart but at least cut the crao about "assigned" posters. It only shows you have fantsies os self importance WAY beyond what reality would dictate. I am here strictly because I like to argue. I never feel like my pov is ever taken seriously and I do not care that there are only a very few other posters who post a pro-Zionist perspective. I am not deluded about the 'perfection' of Israel and know its flaws very well. That you find it too hard to accept that anyone would ever post here without being 'directed' says more about you then it does the idea of 'hasbara'. If you don't understand that what MW is all about is Palestinian hasbara then your really too far gone to interact with.

      And NPR should not be required to notate every single piece it does with a full blown explanation of the complexity of the conflict because a non-Jewish Israeli woman won a popular reality show. Now if they claimed this was eveidence the conflict was ending-okay, then an explanation might be useful. Otherwise-it is what it is. A puff piece no different then a puff piece on 'happy Kurds' or the Saudi women who defied a driving ban.

  • 'Not a single person in this room would accept living as Palestinians do, generation after generation'
    • In Israel we are judged by Palestinian judges, treated by Arab doctors and bossed by Druze police and taught but Palestinian professors, as well as eat food prepared by Palestinian chefs and "just about everything else in society you ding dong. next point

  • Simon Schama's Israel whitewash
    • "Israel has fail as a state..."


    • If the treatment of 1st nations were somehow able to be linked to Jews believe me-you and your compatriots would be doing a lot more then excusing their treatment as "What happened in the past, and out of our control, " when it was only a mere 60-80 years before the creation of Israel. And I am sure the US gov't would respond very vigorously to any acts of violent resistence (as evidenced by the over-reaction to the controversial 2nd wounded knee shoot-out). The US HAS erected a barrier on its southern border to keep out illegals while fully embracing the legal population of Hispanic Americans (as well-if your making non-comparisons between I/US)
      I could go on and on about the hypocrisy of Americans focusing in Israel instead of their own house including the foreign aid packages they SO freak them out- given to a number of Arab neighbors of Israel too, which in total-far exceed the 3b given to Is. That Palestinians were offered a FAR greater % of the land then the 1st nations now have possession of ala 'reservation system' and on and on.
      Ironically, I would not deny that looking at the history of the US the Palestinians could rightfully conclude that 'never giving up, ever' is a better strategy then the 1st nations who had chiefs who did recognize they were a defeated people (Black Elk, Sitting Bull,etc) that would have gladly enjoyed defeating the whites had they been able. I just don't see the point of arguing that in the 'battle over I/P there is room now-or in the next 2 decades -for a treaty that will satisfy the victors and the defeated. Please name me any nation in history-ever-that has willingly agreed to give up sovereignty-won through over 60yrs of war-to give their avowed enemy a treaty which grants them the ability and advantage to continue fighting if they so choose for complete sovereignty over the entire piece of land?.
      While groups like mw may be of some use in spreading one side of view I seriosly doubt it will have much imact on final status. Final status between 'the Zionist Entity and the affiliated Palestinian leadership will be one of those things that happens when both sides are so worn down, so tired out that they just don't care. I see more evidence of this among some Israeli elites and their progeny then among Palestinians but Israelis-like Americans-when pressed can rally together in a NYsecond. So-in reality-nobody is worn down and everybody is excited about what the future will bring. All in all I would say things are looking up for both Israelis and Arabs in WB. And in Gaza? Thats a big problem which-when the LEGAL blockade is lifted will be for the citizens there to sort out.
      and btw-while now its considered 'absurd'-in the future you will be hearing more and more talk about a 3SS pak/ind/bang

    • @talksnic
      and continue to do the worst job of so-called 'annihilation' the world has never witnessed

    • please cite sources where Zionist leaders specifically claim they want to "destroy the Arabs" and "rid ALL of the Arabs from the new Israel" and "wipe the Arabs off the face of the earth" and so on since you all are constantly making rferences to Hitlers war.

      * and please, don't insult with interim war strategy to clear out one village or another perceived to be a threat. I am not 'trolling' (as you say?) or denying that these were carried out as part of an overall plan to secure borders of the new state. Nor am I denying that atrocities were carried out by Zionists as they were by Arabs upon Jews and yes, the Jews prevailed so in some views their atrocities seem more weighted

    • ramble. don't know what troll is.

    • well, I admit i am completely moronic to think anybody could ever

      about Israel

      and why it has been so extremely successful more then the founders could ever imagine

      and why the surrounding Arab states are so far behind its not even a joke

      all due to some 'big zionist plot' conceived and hatched by evil sub-humans who could care less about any humanity other then Jewish people.

      such a moron. such a fool. oh my time is coming. we will be sorry. 60yrs of such utter BS..

      please somebody ban me forever from this accursed site as its a sucking void of nonsense as addictive as a bee is to pollen. I wish I was a sabra as I am too soft on both outside and in. my neighbor, and he's Druze (who thinks there will be 2S but not for a long time) for fks sake tells me "your wasting your time" . so yes, I am a moron.

      * funny story about my neighbor: oh, never mind. i guess even a man born of Palestinian and Druze parents can't make a joke about Arabs.

    • if they wanted to destroy Palestinian, Druze and Bedouin culture why did they allow so many to stay? I mean-since your interpretation of Plan D was that the Jews intended to 'clean' every last arab out of Israel-why were we so stupid as to allow so many Arabs to remain? And why did Israel extend voting and other rights of citizenship to them?

      okay-I get it. Wounded Knee-even if it took place later then I remember in the 1890s was the last big massacre before the 1st Nations ceased to organize battle plans against the policy of 'manifest destiny' the US used to steal back the Black Hills gold and secure the westward expansion of the US. Whats your beef? I got the date wrong?? it only makes the spread narrower in that only about 50 years separated the US genocide and you so-called Israeli genocide of '48.

      And as for moronic? I get it. I say black and you say white. If you want to think 'the world' at large differentiated between Arab tribes in the relatively small area of the Mandate including Transjordan-have it your way. Not everything is an argument, except, it would seem in your world.

    • why don't you just admit that a "historian" in your pov is one that takes on the Palestinian narrative and completely discounts the Israeli narrative as one born out of 'evil, malice and the desire for Jews to ethnically cleanse the entire partition of ALL but Jews. That is the kind of historian that you wouldn't change your underpanties for every day.

    • Centuries? Try late 1870s buster. only 70 yr spread btween the last US genocide (and the US truly did try and destroy the native Americans culturally and bodily as wounded knee was a massacre of 'ghost dancers' praying for their form of messiah to come and save the last of them before complete and utter defeat). While the Israelis NEVER set out to destroy Arabs and their culture otherwise they would have been pretty foolish to allow the now 20% population full citizenship and voting (less conscription) rights. Plus-at the time the world did not differentiate between Arab culture in lebanon, Jordan and Syria from Arabs living in the Mandate.
      Had Israel completely 'cleansed' as many claim-they would very likely be having no problems now like they do and sites like MW would be focusing their efforts on 1st nations in the US not the 7cent. conquering 2nd , 3rd or 4th nations after Cannanites and Israelites, and so on.

      If one truly wanted to compare the US genocide of 1st Nations to what happened in Israel one would have to imagine that the US is comprised of basically Manhattan and some of Brooklyn and that the Natives retained ALL the rest of the US from east to west and the 20% of native Americans still living in and around Brownsville (and the east coast Indians are now lumped in with Navajo and Nez Pierce, etc) were fighting to regain all of Manhattan back through whatever means possible.

    • so-on the one hand the author cites Schama as a "brilliant..historian" and then later claims his history of the 1967 war has "long been discredited with serious historians".

      First I would say that is not an accurate reflection of what "serious historians" are claiming as only a very particular few discount the basic unfolding of the facts surrounding the 67 war-as if there weren't millions of people around who LIVED it and are-for some mysterious reason-either totally wrong about what actually happened or bamboozled by a grand conspiracy. As if there weren't 100s of Arab, Israeli Euro and US newspaper accounts to read about as the events unfolded. That Nasser didn't say what he said and Jordan wasn't asked to stay out. uh-huh.

      Second-is Schama now considered a non-serious historian?

      Third- in reference to this so-called 'hasbarist' I would simply state that there is not one single narrative element to the creation of and continued thriving of the State of Israel that is not now-by pro Palesitinian and anti-Zionist scholars-disputed. Every battle. Every 'massacre' every single act is now claimed by one side to be a complete misrepresentation by the other.
      This authors half-attemps to pretend like he has some basic level of support for Schama's scholarship and premise eventually shos that he is of the crowd that disputes every historical 'fact' about Israel up and until the few historical revisionists change the tone of the 'battle of narratives' by giving false weight to the fact that a few of these revisionists were Israeli and/or Jews while there has never been a serious Arab effort to support ANY part of Israeli narrative in a scholarly tome lest they be threatened or worse by the culture they live in-one of complete censorship of ANYTHING remotely tied to Jews or Israel in all the neighboring Arab regimes including the 2 who have tenuous treaties with Israel.

  • American Studies Association adds over 700 new members since Israel boycott call
    • wow, when somebody suggests ulterior motives on this side of the 'war of ideas in the ME' i can see it doesnt go down very well. but then the big Zionist conspiracy? Well, you know how that goes.

      @ "your nightmare is just starting, buddy"

      oh wow. like we aren't used to dire predictions of doom and gloom for the past 60yrs and now we should really start to be scared-just when we have become a net energy exporter with possible shale reserves that are 40% of sauds. we are greatly annoyed, we always worry, we always must be prepared but threats? get a grip. why should a threat from some little pischer be more resonant then Nassers threats? Even Nasrallah doesnt threaten-he says he'll "respond" ;) .

  • 'There's a lot of anti-Semitism out there' -- Johansson reviews her role as 'new face of apartheid'
    • and even if I mixed her up with some other US starlet who went to Harvard I still think she knew exactly what sodaS was about and is in no way lacking in intelligence as implied.

      okay, i did my 100 hasbarist posts its time to get my $51 paycheck ;)

    • I agree, that the fact that sodastream was fairly well known to be at least an Israeli product if not exactly embroiled in controversy, I doubt very much SJ walked into this contract w/o knowing what she was getting into. And coming from Cambridge, even if a few years back, she most definitely knew of BDS or anti-Israeli protests before many others in the US.(when I was there- back in the 70s-many hard-left Jews turned against Israel and their still there) She should admit to this as I don't see-if she stands by SdaStrm-why it would matter.

    • and she's crying all the way to the bank. and the people who claim her career is "waning" are ridiculous. she was just in a film where only her voice was featured-replacing the original voice actress because of how much more seductive/appealing her voice was. she now evidently wants to be a married woman w babies and those suggesting she is an idiot (and actual idiot as opposed to an idiot because she is Zionist which we all know qualifies one automatically as an idiot over here) should try and get into Harvard some time...see how it goes. See how 'easy' they treat you when your perceived to have privilege. And to women here who suggest she is some weak and manipulated 'girl' should be ashamed to think she doesn't have a brain because she's some blonde bimbo who only courts some 'approval' rating from some secret cabal of power brokers and hasn't earned her place from working in the industry since she was a little kid. You don't have to like her politics but there is no call to insult her intelligence. Can you imagine the censors here allowing posters to claim Palestinians were 'idiots' for this or that policy support?

    • ya really think so? i think a lot of Zionists KNOW that so-called 'modern' Jew-hating (because you know, Arabs are semetic too) stems from Israel since the day it was founded in '48. And before that what was its cause? Or what was it 'connected' to?
      And while Jews were tolerated in many ME nations before the rebirth od Istrael I do not think there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Jews were well liked, let alone 'loved' in their native Arab lands. Your simply repeating old and tired memes about the causes of Jew-hating and what things make people hate Jews. It is a mediocre mindset at best. Read up on Sartre or Nietzsche for ideas on the manifestations of Jew-haters and how Jews have been blamed for the hate for centuries if not eons. Just a hate-inspiring people maybe?

  • 66 years ago today 42 members of my family were slaughtered in Deir Yassin
    • What a bunch of BS & horse kaflooey. If the Israelis plan was a 'genocide' of the Arabs living amongst them after '48 then they are perhaps the worst practitioners of genocide that ever walked the hills of Edom.

    • your using magical thinking if you believe the Arab militias and regular armies were sticking to what you say were boundaries of the new partition. There was a war. Arabs didn't even recognize the 'Jewish Mandate'. The new Israeli army formed of many former militant/terrorists fought to retain the status of the UN partition not some plan for 'greater Israel' which wasn't even a formulated idea yet. If you truly believe "nobody" will ever "get" this view I wish you good luck with that concept. I don't lose any sleep over competing narratives of history as I don't pt much stock in any one side owning the so-called 'truth'

    • officers wern't shot at at wounded knee circa 1800s. That was trumped up. They were ghost dancing. I thought you were writing about little big horn which is still an odd example considering their are competing memorials to those who were massacred and those who battled to avoid destruction

    • well-you may be fed up but its Arab Jews who are going to be a very big part of whatever 'treaty' is negotiated so it is not going to help you unless you get over it. Arab Jews come from similar cultural foundations as the Palestinians and its hard to argue there is no context to the 'war of ideas'. I suppose I can't say anything more since at least 3 of my rebuttals were nixed and I won't be surprised if this one is as well. as I said-in the 'war of ideas' people like to play in their own sandbox. that is not how these kinds of wars are ended.

      also-as long as I'm being 'banned' FYI:
      1) I think debka is hysterical
      2) questioning events leading up to an event is not denying the Palestinian Nakba. If it matters: There was a Palestinian Catastrophe in 1948-9. It is not difficult to say the obvious, even if one is a dedicated Zionist

    • And will the Arabs ever admit there were Arab combatants and soldiers in Dier Y that were firing on the Jewish fighters, killing several, and putting a slightly different spin on this supposedly totally unprovoked attack? Nobody has to claim there weren't atrocities committed during this war but attacking under fire versus going in without a single act of hostility are two completely different cases. If the author and victim of this tragedy claims the former and takes any dispute of these facts as "hostility" it is on him. If on the other hand, people deride his entire story as a 'myth' and never having happened and told only to gain sympathy, then yes, that is on them, and it is hostile.

  • Appeals court upholds dismissal of anti-BDS lawsuit against Olympia Food Co-op
    • whats 'hasbara central"? anybody who disagrees with you? i guess you like to play in your own sandbox. and fyi: what you do is Palestinian hasbara no different then any other 'hasbara' unless you think attaching a modern hebrew word to the act of PR, propaganda and or narrative telling makes it particularly 'Jewish' which of course would be bigoted and racist which O am sure you are not...

    • "No one is asking Israel to give up its legal and national status. They’re attempting to have Israel abide by the law."

      That lie has been put to the fire many times and always burns. BDS calls for all lands including east Jerusalem to be turned over as well as having all refugees and their progeny return to Israel which in effect and actuality negates the sovereignty of Jews over their own small nation which was the reason Israel was returned to the Jews in the first place. It creates two Palestines which is something the founder here at mw freely advocates. There is not one 'Muslim' nation in the region or in the world that doesn't treat Jews with some form of second class status -or- dhimmitude and so, it should not be surprising that in a tiny nation with almost 20% Muslims there is not some bristling at the notion that Muslims should have to live 'under' Jewish sovereignty. Without such bristling and had the Arab population of Israel been less hostile[yes, i know they consider their land 'stolen'] I doubt the class status between Jew and Muslim would be nearly as pronounced as it is now. And the class distinctions are improving every year in Israel due to many factors-both internal and external. Of course Muslims have long accepted Christian sovereignty but have simply not been able to get over the fact that these Jews should ANY type of sovereign power that trumps their natural superiority as Muslims.

  • Where is Sarah Ali?
    • Yes, but she was Jewish from Ethiopia and this woman identifies as an Arab Israeli who is not Jewish and whose family has lived in Israel since its birth. Not sure of your point but certain it was meant to be disparaging.

    • Thats right, Israel is nothing but 'mean mean and more mean'. Nasty and horrible country and people. Nothing as mean has ever existed like Israel before-on this Earth. And BTW-did you know that the other day on a show watched by something like 40% of Israeli households:
      Atamna-Ismaeel, a 33-year-old Arab-Israeli mother of three with a PhD in microbiology, won the fourth season of the Israeli version of the TV cooking competition “MasterChef” on Sunday. Atamna-Ismaeel dreams of opening an Arab-Jewish cooking school, one that she will surely now be able to build.

    • that '10 bullets in the feet' story has been debunked so many ways its ridiculous for you to keep repeating your own lies. Just google the two names and you'll see photos of their feet in the hospital and they are NOT wounded. And even more-there are pics of the 2 walking out of the hospital in Jordan (after first being treated in Israel) freely w/o aid. One on crutches due to a knee bandage and the other w/o any apparent bandages. And, smiling broadly at their new 'hero' status.

  • Distracted by the peace process: What really happened during the talks
    • "President Barack Obama is reported to be worried that US diplomacy is starting to appear “desperate”."

      really. can not imagine what he thought US policy appeared to be before this current stupidity

  • US is 'absolutely adamant' that Palestine not go to ICC and wreck the peace process -- Power
    • Nothing would serve the cause of international justice more then to have the likes of Putin and his 'bloks', the Arab kings and princes, European Jew-Hating leftists(which have always been there anyway), Middle-Asian/Euro dictators and African warlords, Persian theocrats along with assorted SAmerican Autocrats, Communists and etc* sit in judgement of the Israeli 'war' criminals before the ICC. Making an example of Jews is the ultimate statement by the chic and trendy euro- 'court'. After all...up until now what have they done? The Serbians which served the cause of their Muslim victims and a couple of bedraggled African warlords? It is not very difficult to feel the seething members here chomping on the bit at the anticipation and excitement of the realization of their ultimate fantasy. It makes for good theater and after all, with so little to show the ICC has to start somewhere.y

      *none of whom are perceived to be guilty of ICC crimes though I could start with Chechnya and go down a long list from laws against gays to locking up reporters to small things like.....starving over 20 million of your own people through forced famine. But by all means-go after that 'sh__y little...' Israeli state and feel proud.

  • The crisis that Israel adroitly manufactured
    • press tv. only surpassed in the absurd by north korean state tv. the cultists here are convinced that because it goes against Zionism and has the supposed imprimatur of a 'Jew' and a Jewish Iranian (as if all Iranian Jews are not pressured to tout the gov't. line and are 'naturally' free to express support for Israel. Oh-and also anti-American) it must therefore be given maximum credence. just wonder for a moment if a blog like MW would be allowed to exist in a country that is trying to create its own private internet to "protect" its citizens.

  • Pollard was in it for money, and sold so many dox Cap Weinberger wanted the death penalty
    • Your truly a fool if you don't beleive that US intell officials don't believe that what Snowden did was worse. And btw-its strictly your opinion-not a fact-that Pollard is a traitor and many in the industry think the same about Snowden (while he sits all cushy in former Soviet Russia after first fleeing to China-two great friends of the US who naturally would NEVER engage in spying on the US)

      again-I am not personally in favor of releasing Pollard. Curious as to why is is so much more hated then spies like Walker, Hanssen and Ames but that another discussion

    • your sayin' Snowden wasn't smart enough to flee and control a good part of his own narrative? And are you also sayn' that the higher ups in the US intell community don't say, think or believe that Snowden is the only American that "stole more" or did "more damage" then Pollard? -as for at least this was the quote from papers like the NYT , BBC, and a couple others.
      As for wether you have animosity for Pollard, Snowden, one or both really depends on your political position on matters and not facts.

    • I think the term "mega bucks" is a bit of an exaggeration. I remember readign about amounts like: $40,000 and there-abouts. Even if there are proven to be larger payments-its hardly "mega". The real point about Pollard is not that he did not do any damage. Just by being caught and admitting to the amounts of data he stole is damage enough but nobody can get around the fact that Snowden did the same thing and fled before he could be caught. In fact-Snowden was very smart in that he controlled a large portion of his own narrative. The fact remains that its quite suspicious that he fled to two nations known for their voracious appetites for spying on the US-China and the former Soviet-Russia. Anybody truly belive that China and Russia were denied COMPLETE access to what SNowden stole?
      p.s.-I would imagine and have even read there are many in the intelligence community that would like to hang both Snowden and Manning- not that they are in the majority-but they are there. Why would Pollard generate any more particular 'hatred' from the US intell. commun. then a Hanssen? an Ames, Walker, Snowden or Manning? Whats the justification for the heightened level of animosity?

    • when a site like MW starts to sing the praises os a guy like Casper one definitely has to start wondering and scratching one's head.
      That very little noise id raised about characters such as Walker, Hanssen and Ames while Pollard is blamed for such damage and such grief! Its taken 30+ years for anyone to even try to prove any real and lasting damage done to the 'security apparatus' and while it is obvious Pollard was interested in money in return for his deeds I don't see anybody hyperventilating about Ames Hanssen and Walker who most definitely DID intend to harm the USA with their deeds while reaping the benefits.
      That Pollard should be punished more extremely then anybody previously convicted of 'data mining' and leaking or passing along is a question worth asking. And its nothing more then amusing to see the pure denial and twisted hoops that Pollard haters here are willing to jump through to excuse and separate what Snowden and Manning did. With Snowden all snug as a bug in former Soviet Putins 'territory' its hysterical to listen to how Pollard-by turning over Syrian/Soviet missile data to Israel-a non military threat to the US (who was technically breaking its 'agreement' to provide such data) was trying to harm the US while Snowden was trying to improve it. You people love to have things both ways-your cake and to eat it as well. I suppose nobody could blame you as long as your not an out and out hypocrite about it.
      p.s. Casper W. was no hero-not then and not now -unless your only requirement for 'hero' is that one take a position against Israel. And btw- from an Israeli pov-why should the US care so much about an old and sick for-cash-spy and sometime lunatic for Israel who has served near 30yrs of his life sentence when the US is pushing Israel to release 100s of Palestinians with actual and provable blood on their hands as if its nothing? Or is the US not required to practice what it preaches?

      Personally? I don't think Pollard is worth an exchange. He's is up for parole soon enough and his early release will accomplish nothing more then raising hackles and the US will act like it has just given Israel manna from heaven when in fact-its not very much at all except a short term PR victory. If Pollard were truly the great and 'heroic' spy that some make hime out to be he would refuse to be used as a bargaining chip and say he will do his time until he earns parole......period.

  • Boteach stops reporter from videotaping Columbia University debate
    • Did you catch Max shamelessly plugging, [swinging around and shaking with his arms actually] his book during his UMich speech? Peeps got to make a living y'kno. Even Schmuly. But whats up with the 'no video'? what is he worried about?

  • A British Jew warns US Jewish orgs to heed rapidly-shifting world opinion
    • one hysterical Jew from GB and your all up in arms. I suppose you never read about the very assimilated German Jews talking about why and what they could do to staunch the hatred Europeans felt for them? Oh I know, I know, its all so different now. Jews that are Zionist are simply paranoid fanatics with no foundation whatsoever. And 'now' there is 'really' a reason to hate Jews that, like uh, never existed before. And the Jews have brought this on themselves. A truly novel idea from the so-called 'Jewish' and non-Jewish bds crowd.

  • Right-wing news outlets attack U. Mich's divestment drive
    • yes-sefoid. Israel has definitely taken notice as have American supporters of Israel that the bds movement as made gains in the US based media. I am ot sure why that is so shocking to you. We all know the conflict is boiling down to one huge PR campaign by both sides with major funding on BOTH sides and major exaggerations on both sides.

      As for the photo? Its ridiculous. He's a kid. But its no more ridiculous then posting a video of another drunk-ass Jewish American kid spouting of his drunken bigoted ideas in a TA street. Beware of anybody claiming that their semi-insidious pics are only meant for friends. I'm sure said drunk-ass Jewish kid didn't intend for entire world to see his foolish video.

      And a pineapple being as close to a sabra as possible? the author is hysterical. What American kid-even if their Arab-knows what a sabra is let alone thinks about using a pineapple as a close substitute in symbolism. In the US a pineapple is the symbol of welcome placed on many gate=posts and door-knockers. Its just dumb and yes-maybe this guy is showing the strain of dealing with bds on certain US campus's

      as your beloved MW moniker states: "war of ideas..." And a war usually implies some kind of victor. Israel would be remiss if it were to bury its head about a campaign started by a Barghouti and touted as a 'grassroots' based idea

  • JJ Goldberg says Adelson's influence fulfills anti-Semitic belief
    • If ever there was a character that embodied all the supposed characteristics of the Nazi's vision of the Jewish stereotype-Sheldon Adelson fits the bill. From his name down to his demeanor. Yet what does that mean? He can't help how he looks. His name he could change if he wanted but he doesn't want to. He embodies the American dream of growing up to become a billionaire. And he definitely likes to throw his money around. So, how different is he then:
      Gates (okay, Gates is..?)

      Walton Walton Walton


      and then:

      considering the billions upon billions of US real estate and assets billionaire Arab oil sheiks and families own-who knows how much influence they peddle behind the scenes. Adelsons biggest 'crime' is he remains very public and does not cut an attractive figure which we all know is a big weakness for American public opinion

  • BDS' big night: Loyola student government passes divestment, U. Mich votes it down
    • pitcher lobs a slowball so batter can set up his 'hit'. ho-hum. try making a point with the people who you really need to convince-not your peanut gallery.

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