Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 1371 (since 2009-08-02 18:11:12)

Danaa

Showing comments 1371 - 1301
Page:

  • Bob Simon misses the story on Tel Aviv
    • Danaa May 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm with 1 replies

      This peace is the tribute exacted from Simon for his last hard hitting piece on the palestinian Christians. I expect they'll make him do at least 12 more in the same vein.

      Reminds me of Jon Stewart - remember how he had to follow Anna Balzer's and Bargoutti's appearance with a fluff, singularly unfunny piece on Hamas puppets couple of weeks later? he sure suffered mightily through that piece of hatchet job. It is my theory that he rebelled by deliberately making it not funny. Alas, that was followed by a whole year of silence on the Middle east, while things were happening there and in the US congress that just begged for satire?

      And that's not all he had to do. There was a requisite appearance by Krystol, through which Stewart barely made it through, overdoing the tribal appeal - as commanded.

      Watch for Simon going into deep freeze on matters Israel/Palestine next. Then he's going to have to do a favorable piece on some Israeli or neoconish personality. maybe they'll make him interview Saban about his institute (I doubt he's gonna draw Krystol - that's reserved for the likes of Stewart). But he might draw a Lieberman (either one of them) - if he pulls the short straw. All that he'll have to do if he wants to keep his job and 60 minutes wants to stay on the air. I can only hope Simon will take lessons from Stewart on how to keep up the odd insidious resistance, one perceptible only to those who look closely enough to see patterns. One the Jewish ones can get away with because it is assumed the goy is too stupid to notice. So it can be taken as a nice inside joke among the tribespeople - all in the mishpocheh.

    • Danaa May 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm

      I am reminded of the Capitol in The Hunger Games. That's Tel Aviv - living liberal and "vibrant" at the expense of enormous suffering. Exacting "tributes" from among the dispossessed to clean their streets, even as they pay tribute to "tolerance".

      Tel Aviv can be "cosmopolitan" because it is fueled by American money and profits from the occupation. these are bernard Avishai's "global looking elite" - the ones that give him such great hope in the future of the Hebrew state. Unfortunately, their "tolerance" does not go further than the Russian cleaning lady down a few blocks, or the ethiopian street sweeper. It certainly does not extend to the palestinian farmer whose fields are burnt and trees are cut. After all, they are into "start-ups", not settlement. They would give back the west Bank in a jiffy, so say some of them, until you ask what a "jiffy" means. Better yet, ask whether they are OK with their daughter dating a Palestinian Israeli and enjoy the show unfolding.

      I know many of these Tel Avivians. And they all do a great job at pretending to know nothing about what's happening just 30 km away. In reality, they know a lot - how could they not if they served in the IDF? the sad truth is they are OK with it because their "tolerance" stops at the front steps of their little gated community. Their "tolerance" is thinner than paper and usually extends to having a few gay friends and being "for peace". Mention the haredi and the ultra-orthodox and see what happens to that vaunted tolerance.

      In Israel, they specialize in masks held in place by fragile glue. Peering out from behind that mask is a deep deep fear and anxiety. They know their citadels, their capitols, are built on sand dunes and need thousands of tributes toiling and tons of money rolling in from gullible Americans. No wonder they are addicted to reality shows.

      Let's not forget that, in their way, the British colonizers of India had many tolerant people amongst them. As did the Boers.

      And actually, from what I read, Attila the Hun was quite tolerant of the natives' customs, in his inimitable way. History has really given him a bum rap.

      The human capacity to dance on the graves of others and to push the misery of those "not their own" into the farthest reaches of the mind, is truly astounding.

  • Aaron Sorkin's anachronism
    • Danaa May 25, 2012 at 4:00 pm

      Krauss, sorry to cause you to fall into the long post trap. As you can see, I am in it as a permanent fixure.

      Will reply more substansively later (or not, hopefully), but I'll just note that we seem to be speaking from across an interesting divide - which is BTW quite common when it comes to anything that involves "hardware". So, by way of introduction, here is the kind of hardware I am speaking about: robotics (which involves enormous challenges in mechanical, electrical and optical engineering), fiber optics (communications and sensing), biotechnology (mostly measurement/instrumentation), oil/gas drilling equipment innovations, space vehicles and semiconductors (including lighting applications). As you no doubt know, semiconductor manufacturing and foundries - just one example - have moved largely outside the country, which makes it next to impossible to start a company in the US that requires foundry support. The enormous investment needed is discouraging to any VC so the field - other than specialty equipment for aerospace - has become extremely conservative.

      Couple more points for my "introduction" : 1. I do not know a single jewish person living in the NY area with involvement in any of the above-listed fields (informatics BTW is a sub-specialty of biotech and is mostly software). I do know a few at MIT but they are researchers. 2. you mentioned Apple. It's a good example - not too many jewish names involved in the actual device design aspects of the company (though there are quite a few no doubt in the software/interface areas).

      I know robotics is a coming field and there are huge challenges regarding the human/machine interfaces. But ultimately the biggest challenges are mechanical and materials related. The software is, to some extent. already there (the virtual interface). There was a [stillborn] sequel to Battlestar Galactica, called Caprica. Had the seeds of a few good ideas (like teenagers leading the way in crossing the real/virtual divide - a highly likely scenario, IMO). But I felt like they stumbled big time on the robotics aspect, and couldn't come up with a credible solution, so they veered off into social silliness, flailing badly on the "science" part of the fiction.

      And one more thing - don't be so quick to count out the Chinese. They are plenty adaptable, and their princeling management culture may eventually go the way of the cultural revolution. But their social model is not like the West's so their innovation model may not follow the same pattern either. And therein lies trouble. But more on that some other time.

    • Danaa May 24, 2012 at 2:11 pm with 2 replies

      Krauss, big exception to the rules, regarding the new HiTech scene: anything that involves hardware. Jewish people are for the most part absent from either the funding channels, researchers in the universities or employees in the leading companies or start-ups. You can scan paper after paper on research and/or development that involves, say, new materials research (eg, nanotechnology) or device technology or new instrumentation and it's all Chinese, Korean and occasionally Indian or East European/Russian (the latter may or may not be from jewish background). Once in a blue moon, there is an American sounding name, but it is becoming extremely rare to find a native American (ie. other than say, a Chinese or Japanese American) in the graduate schools of the land. The exception to this rule are Israelis. They are there on papers and as visiting researchers but in about the same numbers as, say, Germans, just in different areas.

      Now I do happen to know a few Jewish Americans involved in fields that require engineering and/or Physics background. But they are older and all their kiddies went either into computers, communications or something vague having to do with Liberal Arts (only to emerge some years down the road as newly minted MBAs). Most of these "kids" were top performers in school - it's just they didn't find a career in hard core science or engineering to be an attractive option (perhaps for good reasons, but more on this another time). I do know other Jewish Americans who were in law and their kids often do end up in law as well (or at least some do). The intermarriage with Asians (she usually a doctor or a technical person) is also becoming a bit of a trend, always with the girl being the Asian. The parents, somewhat still jewish (or with a soft spot left for judaism) are at first mortified at the prospect of Chinese in-laws but then adapt and even get a kick out of (especially after they master a new hobby - something to do with expertise on the fortunes and misfortunes of the Ming dynasty).

      Full disclosure on the latter "trend": my personal sample consists of exactly three, with perhaps another three I heard about.

      And Krauss, my experience shows you to be right about the non-mingling of Asians and Jewish Americans in the software/computer areas. Part of this I think is because of the innate conservatism among Asian run VCs and Angel investors. They flock to the lower risk areas, and/or to start-up firms run by other Asians (with indians and Chinese observing a strict non-mingling of fortunes). But that, IMO, is just comfort zone stuff, rather than any deep tribalism.

      One more opinion (since we are opinionating here): I believe that, given the huge cohort of Chinese and Indian researchers/technologists, it is the conservatism of the monied Asians (including the many who made good on IPOs) that prevents the emergence of many more Asian-run and Asian-in-top-management firms. In the end, those who give the early seed money are the ones that set the pace and composition of management. But all of this will change. And China has big plans for their many many American science graduates, who are starting to return home where opportunities await.

  • March of the Flags
    • Danaa May 23, 2012 at 1:28 pm

      Contrast with the common chant of lebenstraum marchers - and ziobot Israel-uber-alas crowds everywhere "Am Israel Chai!" .

      What did the brown shirts chant?

      A comparison of right wing/fascist chants through the ages might be in order.

  • Kristol: 'I don't see it as a huge problem'
    • Danaa May 20, 2012 at 1:36 am with 5 replies

      Arnon,

      I agree about what you say Krystol implies. Been harping on this very point for some time now, but everyone around seems intent on wearing their rose colored glasses. That is, when not shaking fists and sharing their rage at whatever latest atrocity israel commits. I wish people would finally process that Israel has no intention of "absorbing" the West Bank Palestinians, just as they had no intention of absorbing the Gazans. Just think - what does it really meas that gaza is allowed to go on as an internment camp, indefinitely, as the world is standing by, doing nothing. To Israel it means one thing only - that they got away with "it". Which, in turn, means that gaza is exactly what's planned for those Palestinians who stay in the West Bank. Not batustans, and certainly not a mini-state. And Israel will never ever allow any kind of equal rights movement and will do whatever it feels it must to stop it.

      I have to laugh when I hear people admonishing against all out BDS because it'll make the Israelis "even more " intransigent. As if there's any intention - ever - to have any dialogue; as if a "dialogue" is still possible - in any israeli's book (not just the governments they elect), ie, anyone other than those few thousand leftists and activists who keep on fighting their fights, pretending that their numbers can somehow, mysteriously grow.

      People - even the most well meaning leftists here - should think long and hard about what it really means when the world allows Gaza to go on. That Israel suffered no official repercussions for cast lead, which was an atrocity by any measure. A massacre is what it was as congress supported Israel, meaning the US congress and president(s) support massacres and atrocities. Even as Europe made some lame noises then looked away. And the Turkish activists were murdered on the high seas by Israeli pirates, and Turkey still did not break diplomatic relations with israel. In fact they are kind of collaborating now - at the behest of the US and Saudi Arabia - on bringing Syria down. And flotillas were stopped in their tracks despite the preparations and the publicity. And when israel wanted flytilla activists to be held off flights, the European airlines go along, and there's hardly a murmur from any capital.

      To me, the only question that remains is what can be done to put pressure enough on israel and israelis that they will figure out there's a price to pay. BDS against anything and everything associated with israel is the least of what we can do, unfortunately. But I am willing to entertain any and all ideas of what can tame the monster that America and Europe beget through deliberate impotence.

  • Dershowitz attacked from right for supporting two-state solution
    • Danaa May 18, 2012 at 12:38 pm

      Shucks, I forgot one more comparison - so apt too! I hereby bring you, as Exhibits A and B - the Kagans! There's Elena Kagan who, with virtually no writings to speak of, and just a talent for serving her bosses with distinction, was called "brilliant" in ways that clearly required no proof. Her tribe so pronounced her so that must be it - what can outsiders say? Another Harvard alumni, promoted by Sommerer - all in the family, as they say. Though yes, there again is that life skill brilliance that stood her well enough to get a bench spot on the SCOTUS. I can't wait for the myriad of incisive legal opinions which are sure to come any day now.

      On the other end of the scale we have Robert Kagan, another brilliant mind - though perhaps in a slightly different department (now which one is that? political "science"?). As for the scintillating quality of his recent book (a paean to the undeclining greatness of America) I can't recommend enough Bacewich's (no shoulder patting tribesman be he) masterful take down at the Harper magazine of the trite trivialities that pepper said book. After reading this critique (though the critique itself was partly criticized for not being critical enough) I somehow doubt I'll find enough spare change to buy that collected piece of brilliant works, even at Amazon discounts.

      I do urge one and all to contribute their own candidates for the gallery of "brilliant minds".

    • Danaa May 18, 2012 at 12:22 pm with 1 replies

      It's amazing what passes for brilliant these days. Hannity over at FOX is brilliant in his way too. As was Johnny Yoo (did he get himself off or what?). Wolfowitcz was so brilliant that he got himself a perch at world bank with zero qualifications and a coal bag called Iraq hanging over his shoulders, till a misplaced and ill-begotten reptilian sex drive felled him (just as it did Strauss-Kahn. I know, I know...late middle age for the power addicted male of the species is no fun. But it can be worse! there's Berlousconi too, or is he still alive?).

      No doubt Dershowitz knows something about law (well he did go to law school, and I believe graduated with minor distinction) and he is a master at self-serving self-promotion. However, virtually every pronouncement he made concerning Israel is demonstrably stupid and deliberately twisted to fit a pre-conceived bias, indicating that such "brilliance" as he possesses may have been more due to connections, a way with words and said self-promotion. What was that recent book about the tendency of ideologues to become more mired in their ideology the more learned they become?

      I put Dersh on the same level as Lady Gaga when it comes to brain power. Except I suspect that the latter might one up the former even without memorizing law books. She knows the power of monied presentation and branding. the rest is just words strung together, which can be sung or flung like dung. Take your pick...

      For proof of the limited brain power (which gets you into Harvard as long as there are those connections and the means to pay for said privilege) watching and reading the debates between him and Finkelstein is instructive. The latter has totally blown Dersh out of the water every single time.

      Actually, I am curious about what makes Dersh even qualify for a post at harvard given the paucity of his writings, his poor debating skills, his tortured attempts at logic (which are closer to magical thinking than to legal analysis) and the numerous areas where he has been shown to be plain wrong, subject to hissy fits and no better than ideological hacks like, well, Hannity.

      Personally I suspect that there is about 30 point legal/analytic IQ difference between Dershy and someone like Glenn Greenwald, in the latter's favor, obviously. It's pretty clear from their respective writing that where Glenn is incisive, Dersh can only do derisive. Well, at least these two are equally feisty, just that one is easier on the ears than the other. A heck of a lot more so.

      So, Samuel T, how about you try to define what exactly is "brilliant" about the legal panderer you so admirer? That he helped get a guilty man off by exploiting loop holes in the legal system and the weaknesses of our jury system? that he knows how to promote himself? that he gets students signing up for his classes so they can get face points (to come in handy perhaps at a future time when those connections are needed).

      There are brilliant legal minds around. Dersh is not one of them except to fellow tribalists and those few individuals who, watching their TV, are amazed that there are some humans who can put together a sentence with all the clauses intact. Kind of a low bar to jump over.

  • A London interruption
    • Danaa May 17, 2012 at 1:45 am with 2 replies

      Same here, American. Not a Jew in sight for miles around. As for Israel - I get nothing but silence when I mention it to folks who ask about the accent. No questions, no comments, just polite silence, a hint to move to another subject? Which unspoken request I'm happy to oblige. Sometimes I get "oh", then a comment about the rain on the way. That from people who do their best to show interest and do ask things enough to be friendly, even of someone who's clearly from elsewhere. No talent for phoniness around here. No wonder I don't miss california much .

  • Oren's defensive piece on 'sinister' delegitimization movement shows boycott is working
    • Danaa May 16, 2012 at 3:28 am

      OlegR,

      As always the protector of rights and rights of way.

      Also the asker of deep questions

      And a veritable empath to boot (when not polishing them...)

    • Danaa May 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm with 1 replies

      Israel must confront the acute dangers of delegitimization as it did armies and bombers in the past.

      I think this is the sentence people should pay some attention to. Just because Oren is off the wall in his comments does not mean Israel has no counter plan.

      So, what has israel done to confront "armies and Bombers"? It built bigger army with more bombs and drones and walls. It built a more ruthless intelligence service. It went after its "enemies" abroad with a campaign of assassinations, kidnappings and what not. It went after the US congress with all it could, activating and mobilizing the full squad of wealth jewish people possessed. It constructed a web of nefarious neocon alliances that set upon subverting the foreign policy of not just the US but the entire West. it supported major media campaigns and take overs - much of it through zionist supportersd and liberal zionist friends. An example - what did israel do to counter the "threat" from gaza? it turned it into an internment camp and periodically embarks on murdering its people and what leader its bombers can get a fix on. And how did the world respond? with silence. Now why was that? The list goes on....

      Point is, Israel did have a plan to counter suicide bombers, demographic threats and intifadas. israel did have a plan to counter moves by the rest of the world to bring it to an accommodation. It countered every physical threat - real or perceived - by retaliation - on every level it could get away with. It used financial, political, emotional, theological and military leverage, and then some. It got the US to attack Iraq and is planning to have it attack Iran.

      All was not successful, of course, and a new movement has arisen. Surprisingly, amazingly Palestine has become the new anti-Franco movement of Spain. Palestinian resistors and activists are the new Che Guevaras. With keffiahs instead of barrets. That's what drives Israel crazy. It sees the peaceful activists the same way it saw palestinian resistannce fighters. it considers them armed and dangerous.

      So we should listen to Oren's implied threat and bear in mind the few means we have to fight the oppression and Injustice against Palestinians. As in all of us. palestinians, Israelis and Jewish and not. In short, humans with a sense of justice. The means we humans use include the internet and the blogosphere and the freedom of movement and association people have around the world - physically and otherwise. So that is IMO what israel will set upon attacking next. That is what it's vaunted security establishments are obssessing over day and night. It's not that they don't know what they want to do or how it can be done. It's that they haven't figured out a way yet to sabotage the world's ability to respond and get away with it.

      Being conspiracy minded, I think there was a larger purpose to cyber viruses - not just Iran. These seem to have been construed as much as "target assassinations" were. Iran was just a trial run. There's much more over the horizon. But that's just a start.

  • We're still losing
    • Danaa May 13, 2012 at 5:17 pm

      Great article Shmuel. Thanks for the link - I did not have it in my files. All very true too.

    • Danaa May 13, 2012 at 5:15 pm

      Correction made under duress: apparently, UTA was neither "sleepy", nor "little". Ever.

      Got a couple of Texans gunning for me now. And they are definitely armed. Possibly dangerous too.

    • Danaa May 13, 2012 at 5:10 pm

      and humble...

      Back where I came from, humility was taught as a hyperbole. An interesting theoretical concept best left to e.g., the Christians to practice. When I was 8 or so, and they asked me what I wanted to be when grown up, I'd reply without hesitation "god". Well, even in Israel they stopped asking (thanks god). As you can see, some progress has been made (but obviously it's a long road. Uphill all the way. Kind of Sisypian too).

    • Danaa May 12, 2012 at 8:40 pm with 4 replies

      There is a critical element of High technology and research centers that people outside these fields perhaps do not process so well, perhaps because the key ingredients are not the most visible ones. The most significant element - based on my experience, at least - is the availability of capital. Many places around the world - and in the US - quite a few with highly skilled, enterprising locals tried to make new Silicon Valleys. Many areas and countries found out that skilled engineering labor and high levels of learning are not enough, no matter how deep and diverse. Spirit of entrepeneurship is not enough. A top university is not enough and neither is a supportive government - local or national. The ultimate lubricant for all ventures is money. And not just any money but the kind that can be had for a song and a prayer (that's called a Business Plan, I think). Money and investment flow to israel from compatriots in the US and elsewhere. With enough money not only start-ups can be had (and you need 20 at least for one to strike, that being optimistic), and time can be bought for a few to germinate and produce products that lots of people want to buy . With money, what local research facilities there are can be beefed up in a big way. Top researchers and facilities can be bought. Students can be attracted. the University of Texas in Austin did just that. From a happy somewhat sleepy college town, Austin is now a mecca for all manner of companies and research institutes, UTA is a world class institution with the 4th largest endowment in the US (almost $17B from what I just read).

      Haifa has always had the Technion, which produced lots of first class engineers, a, physicists, chemists (and historians, and poets, etc etc. no disrespect meant for any field). But it's in the past 20 years that a huge push was made to draw substantial investment into it, using the American model of endowments and outside investments and partnerships with corporations and other institutes. This has, in turn spilled over into the start-ups around, and outlets of multi-nationals then set up shop to take advantage of the local talent. IBM and HP and Intel do it all over the world, using the same pattern. They always show up, in due course.

      The importance of substantial investment and an easy flow of human capital to and from other, capital rich countries such as, eg, the US, cannot be overstated. Take Romania, for example. Huge human capital there, especially in software and material science. It's also becoming more common to meet Romanian origined researchers and students from Romania both in the US and in Europe. EU companies have also been going there and investing, trying to draw on that skilled labor. But the process is in its infancy. Romania does not yet have the infrastructure and it takes a long time to recover from the soul deadening effects of communism. neither has its population reached sufficient proficiency in the international language of start-ups, which, for better or for worse is English. But given enough time, a new generation that did not know the trauma of imposed communism, a central location, and an increasingly well-to-do diaspora abroad, it's going to happen there too. Silicon Valley on the Caspian sea? why not? It will happen also in Hungary, and the Czech republic and even Russia (did I neglect Poland? oops,..).

      Israel had a head start in terms of money, rich supportive "diaspora", salesmanship and workforce fluidity. But networks spread and many countries are using the same model, many with great success. I once bet with someone that with $5 B to spend as I wish, a location of choice with a half decent university nearby, 10-15 years head start I could produce a Silicon Valley. And I confess to being thoroughly disorganized and not nearly as disciplined and/or focused as one might wish (that not to mention a long list of missing talents...). But such talents as are missing can be hired too. With enough money, a desire to spend it productively, and a little bit of intuition about what not to do and who not to hire, why, anywhere in the the whole world can be a magnet for a High Tech oyster. The location doesn't even have to have great weather. Finland did quite nicely - it has hardly any sun for 6 months, yet boasts some of the best technical centers and enterprising companies in the world (it helps that it can draw on some good Russians from near by St. Petersburg). And Finland has all of 5M people (yes, I know its students keep winning on the TIMMS assessments - way ahead of israel, BTW. Not to mention poor little US of A). How about the West Bank next door to that Israel place (ie assuming, of course easy commute anywhere)? Or, an Indian reservation in the US? Alas, no one took my bet, so we'll never know (OK, I know... that predilection to frequent ranting might have been perhaps a bit of draw-back...not to mention a talent for shopping). Point is, with a few favorable starting conditions + plenty of capital + a few people that spend it well, the right people - if they are not all there to start with - will come. The right ideas will flourish. What can grow will, and I will get fired for talking (and ranting) too much.

      As for Israel High tech - it goes both ways. Yes, there's that nice globalized, educated coastal strip. But there's a brain drain too and a profound, accelerating shift in demographics towards less productive segments of society (the ultra-orthodox?). And there is that creeping malaise that comes with pressures for increased insularity from its surroundings and from knowing, deep underneath, that the entire enterprise of zionism was built on human misery, and must continue to inflict misery to survive. These effects take time to exact their toll, but they will. Even on High tech edifices. I was always kind of partial to the Tower of Babel story. There are important lessons there, I think. And the longer it takes for the lessons to be learnt, the harder the fall, when it comes.

  • Liberal Zionists are afraid their parents will reject them if they come out
    • Danaa May 11, 2012 at 7:10 pm

      Shmuel,

      I couldn’t believe how many of my lefty friends got taken in.

      That in a nutshell is the problem with the left - same in the US it appears. It's so much easier to agitate for gay marriage than to agitate against drones spraying death in the name of empire. Or something abstract (at least for now) like the surveillance state and erosion of civil rights. Or something very complicated like the environment or neoliberal economics (ever tried to argue that one with an avowed global capitalist?). Leftists do share the affliction common to all humans - a craving for the simple sound bite - a reflection of our fundamental laziness as a species (mentally especially). Gay marriage is nice that way. the arguments are clear, the opposition incoherent, the history on your side, and, most importantly, no need for any cognitive dissonance, such as when one dares to criticize one's own country's military escapades.

      it was a relatively easy way of re-establishing his liberal credentials without actually challenging the power structure of which he is a part.

      So it was, indeed. In America the political dynamics is interesting in that politicians (including presidents etc.) will go the path of least resistance. If there's no strong well-monetized lobby against something that their base supports, that's where they'll go. especially if the cost to them politically is minimal. So it's really all a lobby game. Where the lobby is strong we can expect minimal action (financial regulations, environment, alternative energy, gun control, I/P come to mind). But there's really no powerful opposition to gay rights, just lip service from fundamentalists and conservatives. So you are right about the US and I imagine Europe too.

    • Danaa May 11, 2012 at 3:33 pm with 9 replies

      "Coming out" to your family is the hardest thing of all, and I can understand why you may be in no rush to do so. I think that for Israelis their sense of identity as persons is so intertwined with their Israeliness that to confess to the end of "love" can only come across as a rejection of them personally. The reactions may differ, depending on temperament, but most would react as one does when their identity is undermined. I know that's how I would have taken it once. For all too many years I'd react purely emotionally to harsh criticism of Israel, to the point that a cool conversation would not have been possible (too fiery a temperament is the one constant, alas, from then to now).

      Chances are though that most will choose not to believe you when you'll say you "lost the love", and everyone will go on pretending as if nothing has changed. Except for a certain chill in the air. That's for family though. I found that friends do drift away, often by mutual unspoken acceptance. Indicating perhaps that too many of these friendships were deeply rooted in a sense of tribal commonality, rathen than a purely human one. When that bond is stretched, friendships fray first, even if families make an effort to somehow transcend. Mine just wasn't so good at transcendal stuff. Live and learn.

      Apologies for presuming, as in truth I only had a small family and a relatively limited circle of friends, so such claims as I make should not be taken as springing from any deep knowledge. But I did observe what happened to a few others, and the patterns were there.

      I think that in this sense, "coming out" as "not loving your tribe" is much more irrevocable than say, coming out gay. I've been thinking about the differences, having read accounts of some outings. Those who put themselves outside their tribe (which is, to me, what Israeliness kind of is, much more so than Jewish-ness) cannot expect their family and friends to come marching with them at some pride parade. They are more likely to sit at home, beating their chests with a sack over, as the parade passes them by.

  • US military officers taught to target civilians and wage 'total war' on Islam
    • Danaa May 10, 2012 at 5:24 pm

      You, a pessimist? I hate to agree with you, but I kind of do. Besides, I am the official cassandra - trying to compete or something?

      My theory is that people subconsciously may be realizing what's coming (only a few can afford to admit it to themselves consciously as it may undermine their living making and living being). That realization may explain the strange fascination people have had with the Hunger Games books. Which were obviously written for young adults but Collins hit on something (possibly not accidentally) with a strangely broad appeal. I think people know that there's something to the scenario depicted in the book with a Capitol (stand-in for Capital?) lording over effectively slave districts (back to a feudal arrangement of serfs and over-lords?) and exacting "tributes" for their televized circuses.

      Just a not-so-random thought to cheer you up, Keith.

  • A portrait of a former Zionist (Part 1)
    • Danaa May 22, 2012 at 1:52 am with 1 replies

      Mooser, OlegR and Playforpalestine are obviously anti-semites who are at MW to give a bad name to Jewish intelligence and to delegitimize Israel. I mean, with defenders like this, who needs detractors?

      I am sure they must be Dannish infiltrators from the ISM. It's just not possible that the jewish gene pool has deteriorated to such an extent. Or could it be contamination from the Khazari and/or Berber ancestors that's finally bubbling up to the top (with apologies to all true and proud Kahazaris and Berbers).

  • 'Liberal and enlightened'-- and all white
    • Danaa May 9, 2012 at 12:30 pm

      Cliff, good comments especially from the personal background. probably you get asked a lot why you care so much about I/P. I obviously agree with you about the cliquishness (see my comment below).

      recently, a young jewish Lady - from the upper middle class - I know married a fello from India - of largely the same background - upper middle class. Both in New York. They had one full day of Indian traditional marriage festivities followed by another day that included a jewish wedding style ceremony with hupa and all. Then another day of just fun with their young New York hipster friends. Everyone looked so colorful in the pictures, and the Indian groom (who is totally Americanized though he looked Bollywoody-handsome with touches of attitude a la The devil may care Dude shick) looked in his element wearing a kippa with a look of whatever.

    • Danaa May 8, 2012 at 10:09 pm with 1 replies

      They claim Asians tend to self-segregate most, and since they are about 25 % it has a larger impact.

      From my experience, there's some truth to that but only partially. After all, Asians are not all made of one cloth. For example, Koreans are no more comfortable with Taiwanese than they are with "whites", Japanese do not tend to congregate with Chinese and the ones from India form their own groups which are not free of the baggage of the castes they came from. If you ask any young Asian, they'll tell you that self-segregation on campus is only partly voluntary. For the most part they might claim to feel not entirely welcome, as they cannot hide their "foreign-ness", so they pull with those in their comfort zone.

      There is a school in the town where I lived which was under court order to integrate a certain number of residents from a less affluent town a short distance away. People at that school also claimed that the blacks "self-segregated". Though if you spoke to some of the black kids they'd tell you they felt excluded by class more so than by race.

      I believe that the truth is that American schools - all the way through college sometimes - can be extremely cliquish. And the cliques form more around class and shared culture than anything else. There's always that top clique of the well-to-do and that's what may pull the Jewish and wasps together. It's the unholy embrace of the self-proclaiming "elites", kind of like what Phil implies. Their members are closer to that coveted - and maligned - 1% than their equally talented and accomplished but racially different counterparts. Oftentimes, the latter are further down the rangs of the ladder only because they have fewer "connections" and/or less access to capital (depending what field they are going into). Maybe this sounds like a generalization, but just how many Asian Americans are likely to get a job interning at NYTs if they go into journalism? how many breaks someone who fancies themselves a writer or film maker going to get?

      Have any of us seen many TV pundits who are Asians? is it a coincidence that so many pundits are Jewish?

      As for progressivism, I agree with you Krauss. the further up the eschelons of media power one goes the more white and LGBT supporting they become. And that's the sad thing - to the 1%, support for gay marriage and immigrant rights (that do not threaten them one bit) - is what defines the progressive. It's beyond pathetic, but having trust funds in your future can be strangely insulating.

    • Danaa May 8, 2012 at 12:18 pm with 12 replies

      This is one inarticulate young woman. In her interview she sounds remarkably shallow, even for a 25 year old. Now I know why HBO is not on my list.

      But she is right about one thing - the large urban environment is a highly segregated one, especially in terms of color. I've seen and noted that myself. And it's not just New York or eg, Boston. It's even high tech meccas like Silicon Valley. Though at least there it would be difficult, if not impossible, to avoid Asians. Even there, when it comes to social settings, like still gravitates to like. And Jewish gravitates to everything white, like milk to honey.

  • Palestinian students at Israeli college say they were forced to stand to honor war dead
    • Danaa May 8, 2012 at 2:44 am

      Shmuel, good one.

    • Danaa May 7, 2012 at 2:32 pm with 2 replies

      These incident of forcing palestinians to commemorate their own oppressors and the killers of their ancestors, is like asking Indian tribes to commemorate Custer's "Last stand". Not that they wouldn't use it as occasion for celebration or commemoration of their own dead, but to mourn for Custer?

      For the Indians Thanksgiving is not much cause for celebration either. Unless being stubbed in the back for hospitality is an occasion for mirth.

      OTOH, the more Israel imposes these stupid rules - whether locally or nationally (as in outlawing Nakba mention), the more younger generations of Arab residents will become creative in keeping faith with their own narrative.

  • Who's the anti-Semite?
    • Danaa May 11, 2012 at 2:05 am

      Playforpalestine,

      The vast majority of Americans do not support zionism. That "support" is strictly a product of the echo chamber manned and operated by mostly jewish and philosemite MSM pundits + those who awe their jobs to them. Most Americans have no clue what "zionism" is. When it is explained to them properly they often recoil, as zionism - the full reality of it - is the anti-thesis of Americanism, at least as Americanism is idealized. Deep at its core, when all the layers are peeled off, Zionsim is about exclusion and exclusivity. Go to israel if you like, and see for yourself what zionism has wrought - one of the most bigoted, cliquish, arrogant, querrelous, corrupt-to-the-bones places on earth. Yes, I know it appears lively enough to the average jewish American visitor who is quick to mistake rudeness for warmth. But to listen to average israelis speak, among themselves and on their facebooks, in their own tongue, is to know what Israel is. And a good place it isn't, because I believe that the the zionism that brought it about applied goodness so selectively as to have suffocated what strands of good were there. And thus they bore no fruit, and it was the evil seeds that sprung and covered all.

      If you want a reality check why not visit middle America sometime? I assure you that opinions on Israel are not exactly favorable, even if people cannot always articulate their unease with that militaristic arrogant little place in the ME that's forever punching the US in the face, for some reason. But there's worse. Opinions about Jews are not all that favorable either - primarily because they are viewed as the epitome of coastal elites that hold power above and beyond their numerical weight and/or innate talent. I've heard it said - or implied - - in middle America - and that even from evangelist types, that "Jews stick together", and that "they are good with money". No, I did not hear the epithet of "clever" because that's not middle-America speak. But I heard them referred to as "smart", meant as a compliment, though the admiration was clearly tinged with something a little short of that. Something slightly bitter, that leaves an after taste. In my encounters I always get the feeling that people want to say more but can't because they are too polite and do not wish to step over any bounds.

      No, people out in the great middle of the land are not particularly knowledgeable or well-informed. But they pride themselves on their intuition, their ability to tell real from fake. And one thing I've never heard said is that Jewish people are "great Americans". No one I ever heard said otherwise either, but somehow, there's always that missing little attribute. One that is sometimes freely applied to people of color, to other ethnicities.

      This is what should worry you. It is not any anti-semitism burning under the ground. But there's resentment and it is deep and there's a perfectly rational reason for it. Sean is right. It may be a good idea to listen sometimes to the rumble under the ground.

  • United Methodist Church rejects divestment
    • Danaa May 3, 2012 at 12:58 pm

      Oleg R. Don't worry about my computer. Everything comes from China nowadays, no?

      Besides, the personal boycott I advocate does not require being a fanatic. We each boycott what we can. Simple.

    • Danaa May 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm

      Thanks Shmuel - Mentana, Romano - people after my own heart. They said it well. It's because Israel is a democracy that we can hold the people themselves to account, as some of us do.

      Have been thinking a lot lately about what collective accountability means. Precipitated by a conversation on slavery in America, actually, and what it really took to keep it going for as long as it had. Not from the ruling elites but from each person. Though perhaps, the more relevant point is what it took to finally get a critical mass of the people (of the North at least) to turn against it. Enough so to support a civil war. Still, it was a long time in coming, and as I am learning, the civil war was truly a horrible event. For all concerned.

    • Danaa May 3, 2012 at 2:54 am with 1 replies

      I agree ritzl. partly because I am convinced that we haven't seen the worst of it yet. Laws have and are being drawn in many places in the West that would set BDS as a "hate crime". And the day is drawing near that internationals will be slowly but surely squeezed out of the West Bank altogether, the better to hide the next phase of the "solution". Yet, the one thing "the powers-that-be will find difficult to clamp down on is the personal committed boycott, because things done through inaction and avoidance are hard to prove.

      As for those of us who chose to take a stand through abrrogation of filial duties, there is comfort in knowing that whereas sometimes words have their uses, other times it is silence that speaks most eloquently.

    • Danaa May 3, 2012 at 2:31 am with 7 replies

      Sherri - you need to burn everything that's made in Israel or that supports israel.

      Basically, at least 80% of the population strongly support what's being done to the palestinians, however it is couched. Another 10% think that whatever is done is not fast or coersive enough and that they should just be put on a bus and sent somewhere already. Of the remaining 10%, 1/2 are too apathetic to care about anything at all and the remainder would like things to just be rainbows.

      Oh yes, there's about 5000-10,000 people in all of israel that actually do care about other humans. There were more once, but many of those left the country or passed on to heavenly pastures.

      The bottom line is, the evil of what's being done to the Palestinians happens because that's what the majority of israelis want to see happen. They are all settlers at heart, even if they happen to live in "cosmopolitan" Tel Aviv, even if they despise the settlers. Because they all know that they must continue to exploit the west bank for its land and water , and that the palestinians of Gaza must be kept in an ghetto for as long as forever. To live off the misery of others is not so hard if one can pretend it's all necessary and if at one point they all had to administer the misery personally (through service in the IOF). The rest of the story are fairy tales and fables told to appease some wreched souls in the liberal west.

      In boycotting Israel and anything that comes from that heart of darkness one simply makes an ethical decision that human lives and rights are important, whoever the humans are.

      These piecemeal divestments are just crumbs that are way too easy to crush underfoot. Expect the vote next year to be even more lop-sided against divestment. Christians as a group are no stronger than any other group, their faith notwithtanding. In the end, when it comes to group dynamics, expedience wins. Always.Only individuals can turn the tide, and it starts with each one of them. Separately before they can act together.

    • Danaa May 2, 2012 at 7:56 pm with 4 replies

      Can't say I am surprised the vote lost. Some times the good activists are so imbued with enthusiasm for the cause that it's easy to lose sight of just how difficult the road ahead is. Almost no one I know (and I know plenty of humans) is even remotely aware of how dire the situation of the Palestinians is, or what israel is really planning for them (except for some of the ex-Israelis and a few Jewish people who do know and think the palestinians had it coming , because well, because. And besides, they can just go to Jordan...). Most Americans don't give a hoot about the Middle East other than the oil coming from there is too expensive, and people are always at each other's throats "over there' and they should just "cut it out".

      As for the Christians - methodists or what not - they have been totally cowed by their Jewsish bretherns, and have developed a serious inferiority complex, no doubt engendered by all those "inter-faith" tete-a-tetes. Those 1200 rabbis knew what they were doing - it's called "pulling rank". Sorry, I know this sounds condescending but is there any other reason the great conferees chose to behave like sheep and give a hand to evil personified? that in direct contradiction to dictates of their own religion?

      In the US the MSM has been submerged to the monied power classes of which the Jewish establishment is part and parcel. Just look at the over-reaction to Occupy. And the under-reaction to drone perpetrated atrocities. Palestine is of no concern to the average American, and the MSM makes sure it remains so. This will not change until the human rights people manage to come up with enough dough to level the PR field. And unfortunately, the people on our side are rich in spirit only.

      So what can be done so it's effective? I still think the only way things will get attention - and hopefully some traction - is through shock therapy. To me that means all-out BDS - conducted on an individual basis, where everything from Israel is boycotted (surreptitiously, if necessary) and Israeli people - on a personal level - are told in no uncertain terms what they - and their country - stand for: apartheid, racism, pesecution, a caste system and commitment to inhumanity. Perhaps exempting a handful of good guys- (which in my case amounts to all of 2, for example - a woefully small percentage).

      Unless people are willing to do the really hard stuff, including giving up on products, culture and even friendships and family members, no progress will be made. One has to do it so that it hurts, and a little "divestment" movement is just too easy to defeat - and it will be defeated again next year, and the year after. That schism among Jews Phil is so eagerly awaiting is long ways away, and before the ground breaks things will get much worse. As in much much worse, and not just for Palestinians.

      I said it before but it bears repeating - when you are up against Israelis, their zionist minions in the US (as in those 1200 rag-tag "rabbis") and the thuggish system they are all part of, one has to be as tough as they are. People really need to accept that israelis will never, ever come around to respect other people, so sweet talking them and their minions is no more use than talking to the Branch Davidians. Don't know about the American ziobots, but israelis do take a nice long pause when confronted with the appropriate reaction to thuggery, which is contempt. People should try that some time. At least for starters.

  • Three score and four years ago our forefathers brought forth on this planet a new nation
    • Danaa May 12, 2012 at 3:45 am

      So, we got ourselves a new Hasbara trainee. To wit:

      But by outlawing all but one side’s narrative in a notoriously convoluted war this policy strangles debate rather than encouraging it.

      Common ploy, most commonly deployed in the MSM (Hasbara-backed): pretend that there are two equal sides with two "competing" narratives. One side does all the oppressing, persecuting, ethnic cleansing, torturing and murdering. The other side does the suffering and standing its ground, the refusing to leave when ordered and the daring do defiance when told to heel.

      PlayforPalestine wants to prey on Palestine and like the thugs he supports expects the rapist to be given equal time to his victim. I expect that next we'll hear "but she asked for it!". or have we heard that already?

      For some time now I've been asking hasbara central for the A team, as MW has more than earned it. But all we ever got were the B Teams. Now it'd seem they have run out of those and sent a trainee.

      But that's OK - Shingo did a fine job giving a little workshop. One can only hope our new trainee is educable and will sharpen his/her tools. Hint: maybe start with a new screen name?

  • 1200 rabbis threaten an end to interfaith harmony if Methodists support divestment
    • Danaa April 20, 2012 at 1:17 pm with 9 replies

      hophmi, those Rabis are not stupid, you know. Neither are the Jewish establishments they are embedded in. They know the two state is a fig leaf and that the occupation is here not just to stay but to expand. They are just lending a helpful hand to try to cover it up.

      And because they are neither ignorant, nor stupid, each and everyone of these rabbis should be held to account,

      Unfortunately, the Jewish community in the US and elsewhere is complicit in the Israeli plan to herd the west bank palestinians into the designated batustans (cf. Area A) and to undermine any hope for an actual Palestinian state. They all know, as do you.

      That's the bottom line - everyone knows.

      As a result, I predict this sniveling letter will some day be seen as what it is - the canary that heralds the degradation of Judaism itself. In the interest of keeping Israel from the opprobrium it deserves, what values Judaism stands and stood for are sacrificed and corrupted. An great religion - through the sad craveness of its august practitioners - brought down to the most basic common human denominators - greed and fear. The exceptional, the respect for human rights, laid low in front of the tribal.

      What else is left? oh yes, there's apathy for the suffering of "others", that other common pilar of humanity.

  • Israeli celebrity says she enjoyed video of IDF attacking Danish activist because he looked like a Nazi
    • Danaa April 22, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      I agree with Woody who called out the mods on the poster gildag. This one is not out for debate or discussion but for vituperation and smear. He just accused christians, moslems and "leftists" of being anti-semitic through and through - with not even a hint of a caveat. This is pure name calling of the first degree and should not, IMO, be tolerated, much less debated among civilized people. Certain people got banned from here for a heck of a lot less than that.

      It really seems all wrong when individuals are permitted into a discussion whose one and only intent is obviously to provoke. If people want to see examples of that type of extreme ultra-nationalist zio mentality, they can look through the Haaretz talkbacks (now a sad, sad, remnant of their former selves) or even worse, ynet. I can't recommend translating talkbacks and/or facebook comments from Hebrew because I fear that to even cite most such comments, or draw attention to them, would be to wake dormant strands of anti-semitism - not entirely unjustified this time. Which is kind of what Gildag is trying to get at. Right along with the poster Fredblobs. They have effectively accused the blog owners of anti-semitism and hate speech several times over. If you let these two stick around in the face of continuing violations of comment guidelines then you hollow out your own policy and can't expect us to take it seriously.

      Please send these two elsewhere (or what? says the mods. you will bring up Gilad again?).

  • Rifle-bashing lieutenant-colonel solves Jewish problem created by Freud and my mother, says author of 'Indecent Proposal'
    • Danaa April 18, 2012 at 12:25 pm

      On the streets and in the homes of the greater israel, they are all angelhards.

      The sentiment expressed by the blow-hard here is unfortunately the common one in Israel, and quite a few of its oh-so-Jewish supporters abroad. If you could be a fly on the wall in the typical israeli household, you'd hear mostly admiration for the thugs-R-us brand mixed with resentment - and criticism - as to how could the IDF have allowed that video to go public. Clearly, a major operational failure.

      Eisner is the face of theo-facsism when the mask drops off. He did what the vast majority of israelites would like to do to all those solidarity activists - - and would if they could just figure out how to get away with it all. That's par for the course when you declare the mere concept of Human Rights to be your enemy.

      In Israel, the bad apples are as bad as they are because the entire tree is infected with the virus of rabid nationalistic/religious hubris. The "tree" of israel is what a cult looks like.

    • Danaa April 18, 2012 at 12:16 pm

      OlegR - it takes a bully to know one?

      Ah, but to be a storm trooper with a kippa! must be all the range in your neighbourhood!

  • The rifle-butting video is following a different narrative
    • Danaa April 17, 2012 at 1:39 pm

      Glad you said all that Shmuel (and thanks to Mooser for drawing attention to the Newsclench comment). Conforms to my [much more limited] experience. It is unfortunate that there are not more bona fide, "average" Israeli voices in the various blogs out there, including this one. Not just the few well-meaning Anglo and their mirror opposite - the extremist anglo settler, orthodox and assortment of other hasbara peddlers. If people read one tenth of what goes for day-to-day "normal" discourse in Israel, I believe they'd be genuinely shocked. Just a cursory patrol of what was said in Israeli facebook pages about Saar would be an eye opener, one that would put Newsclench comments under the bright light they deserve. Newsclench is obviously not in tune with run-of-the-mill Israelis or he wouldn't be able to say what he does (though he makes claims of being Israeli or to live in Israel, or whatever. If so he obviously found one of the smallest, most hermetically closed bubbles there. Maybe a it's one of those famously well-insulated beach condos?).

      People outside israel have no idea how deep the army-worship is, how nationalistic/xenophobic most young and not-so-young Israelis are, and how marginalized anyone becomes just for speaking against this syndrome. Saar was a nice fig leaf (in his interview for Al Jazzerah he mentioned that he was recruited precisely because he was a "leftist"). He didn't say it but it's obvious that he was also recruited for his good Israeli "muscular" looks. It's a bit like pinkwashing - look how free we are to talk about such things! look how open! look who got third place! somebody must have voted for him, right? based on the mostly negative commentary he received, it's a good question.

  • The occupation reaches Europe: airlines cancel 'flytilla' passenger tickets
    • Danaa April 15, 2012 at 11:28 am

      Freddyblogs:

      The enemy of israel is obviously non-Jewish Humans with Rights. Must be since pro-human rights is what the "habitual trouble makers" are, in Israelis' eyes.

      But then again, Palestinians are not really human in Israel's and Freddy's eyes, hence the point of "rights" is moot. To Israel and fascist supporters', the "war" is really a cross-species war, is that it?

    • Danaa April 14, 2012 at 9:03 pm

      msndoerksen
      i’m not a facist, and i support an end to the occupation, but not at any cost

      If you support Israel you support fascism. Israel is an apartheid garrison state committed to the obliteration of the palestinians. Not yet fully fascist, but well on its way (to something actually worse - a theocratic/ethnic fascism is what's in its future, given current directions). The occupation is on because Israel and it's fascist regime supporters outside support it. Sure they would like it to end, with as many palestinians transfered as possible and the rest cowed into total submission.

      What the Israelis really want is to find a way of ridding themselves from the natives, rather than continue to occupy them. They don't use more drastic means only because they can't get away with it. If you don't know this then you don't know israelis (and I mean the "people" of israel, not just the government they elected).

      and not without adressing israeli concerns as well

      Israel's concern as in - how the heck do we get rid of 1.5 M people for the least cost?

      Face it hasbara-man/woman: if you support the horror show they put on, then you know what you are.

      Boycvott/Divest/Sanction Israel AND its supporters. All of them. because they all know, and they don't care.

      this circus of “million man marches to jerusalem”

      That's next year, BTW. This year may be we could start with a thousand men march on the Washington enclave of the apartheid state, cf. congress? how about Wall Street? how about the local synagod/hillel/havura?

      Israelis have legitimate concerns that come from looking around the region.

      Their one concern we know of, based on their actions, is that they want to somehow disappear the natives, who the true descendents of the Jewish people (unlike you, for example?). Maybe it's jealousy, maybe just triumphalism of conquerors, who can't stand the obvious fact that the ones who always lived in the land now known as Israel/palestine are its legitimate owners by right of continued residence.

      IF you are going to imply I am trying to delegitimize Israel, I may have to admit you are right. Maybe the "legitimacy" of the country was that which marauders claim, as they always do, from the time of the Huns and through the conquistadors. It just was never so obvious just how deeply illegitimate the entire enterprise of zionism was. Or maybe they had a chance to legitimize the conquest and chose not to do so.

    • Danaa April 14, 2012 at 11:50 am

      mayhem,

      Israel is indeed entitled to be anything it wants to be, except perhaps a threat to the entire civilized world.

      It is high time to expand BDS to any and every israel related product, establishment and organization. It is time to boycott all Israeli institutions including their universities and "cultural" bastions like their habima. And it is time to personally let the citizens of that place - and their fascism promoters everywhere else know how the rest of us feel.

      Why should we continue to let any person get away with supporting the evil occupation? because some ancestors of theirs suffered in a past long gone? there's no human being currently on earth who does not have ancestors that gravely suffered in the past. That's human history - it's full of suffering. The task now is to help stop the suffering now, and make clear what we think of those who support ethnic cleansing and oppression. Yes, it happened to the indians. All the more reason to stop it from happening to Palestinians. A very good place to start if humanity is to lay any claims of civilization.

      It is time to stop letting people off the hook and let get away with spewing garbage like tribalist mayhem here.

      Boycott Israel!!
      Divest from all Israeli symbols!
      Sanction Israel supporters (or just turn back on them)!

    • Danaa April 14, 2012 at 11:37 am

      smndoerken,

      Bad hasbara alert.

      Maybe this fascist terror state supporting, hate spewing individual should be put on a No Fly list to any country other than a certain garrison state in the ME?

  • If you deduct the Israelites, Pharaoh's Egypt was actually a marvelous country
    • Danaa April 8, 2012 at 1:23 pm

      Continuing the Bibi-logic:

      And if you subtract all Jewish people from the 1%, they will become automatically more like 5%. Bingo! inequality reduced by a factor of 5!

      But there's more! subtract jewish people from the top 5% (which includes lots of acadmia) and the inequality curve flattens to 80-20. Now we are almost talking European index (almost).

  • The liberal Zionist predicament
    • Danaa April 9, 2012 at 2:49 am

      secular Zionists do not think Jews are superior to gentiles; they view themselves among those who are superior to Orientals.

      Yes they do. In Israel they most certainly do, The proof is that, decades later, I am still working, on disentangling this state of mind. I find more proof whenever I talk to israelis, ex or otherwise. They are still in the mind-set of total superiority, even 40 years later. It's that deep. A major hash, to be sure.

      "I give thanks every day for being Jewish", so says an ex-Israeli friend of mine. And just whatever do you think she meant?

      As for non-Israeli Jewish people (not all, absolutely not all), there's that wonk-wink, nod-nod, of which I spoke. It says - we know. The subtext is - "they" are simply not as smart as us, and certainly not as deep. But we mustn't say it in the open. No we mustn't, or else they'll be on to us. And what then?

      So that still falls short of explaining the origins of Zionism, not that he’s shown any particular desire to do this.

      Sorry, andrew r. too convoluted for me to figure out. If you are jewish - it's back to level 1 for you. If you are a philo-semite, you should rethink. And listen to tree who says it so much clearer than the rest of us (which makes me thinks she is Jewish or just smart-in-the-Jewish-way, which statement should totally prove my own inadequacy as debater, as well as serious ethical lapses as a human*).

      ____
      * I really am working on my own book in earnest now. One that will detail at least a few subsets of said shortcomings (at length, one may assume). It is my hope to make it Mooser-iteous in scope, if not vision.

    • Danaa April 8, 2012 at 3:44 pm

      Beautiful dissection, tree. And right on the money with the quotes. "Bloodlands" sounds like an excellent reference book. Something to read after seeing "The Hunger games", perhaps?

      I don't think andrew r is quite up to your standards. That being said, he doest enough to deserve one of my rants (but only a second class one!).

    • Danaa April 8, 2012 at 1:14 pm

      "Atzmon’s writing that I am calling antisemitic to be about how Jewish Israelis are educated, and in no way does he set out to explain that."

      No. but that's not what his book was about. And as I said above, I do feel he would have strengthened his case by making it clear that Israel is a country of Judaens now nt of Jews. His attitudes and take aways from the Israeli system have been amply alluded to in other articles he wrote over the years (no links now but these are easily found).

      "The whole act of bringing “Jewish Marxists” into the picture doesn’t exactly indicate Atzmon is only talking about Zionists and neoconservatives."

      You are parsing now. You take something said in one place in the article, combine with another, and what do you get? an "anti-semitic" goulash.

      Were the rest of us to do what you do on everything every last one of us would be a proven "anti-semite". That this is not done to us all is only because we are not the ones out there promoting a book.

      Sorry, andrew r, but with this sample of cherry-pickin' you have shown yourself to be a theologian, not a critic to be taken seriously. If that's all the other critics of GA have, he should be rejoicing all the way to the bank. What you just did is the hallmark of trolls everywhere: pick "zionists and neo-conservatives" in one place, draw attention to the "Marxists" in another place, then bingo! combine the two as "proof" that Atzmon was talking about "all" Jews. Is that the essence of your case?

      Since you evidently did not make any case at all, I hereby request that you retract the "anti-semitic" flag you attached to Gilad. Personally I believe you should be standing in the little boys corner for at least 5 hours for the offense of libel.

    • Danaa April 8, 2012 at 2:51 am

      andrew r,

      I do not march lock step with Gilad (or anyone else for that matter) on everything. I've said before that he can be quite careless, much as you would expect from one who was not encased in scholarly works, with all the equivocation, circumspection and circumference (my word, don't look up) that immersion requires. One area where I part with him is the use of language. Tricky business that. Had he come up with a word other than Jewish-ness to describe that tribal je ne sais quoi, I'm convinced that half of the criticism directed his way would have melted away. The word has simply been taken by others, long before him, and the hyphen is just not enough to undo precedents. Sometimes, one can be too clever for one's own good (and I should know that, too; do I ever). Another example is the use of the word "ideology" to describe a tribal mind-set. That's not very accurate, given that the word "ideology" has come to contain - at least in general usage - mostly political connotations. In which case saying "Jewish ideology" requires unscrambling some eggs. Not possible if we believe the Third Law of Thermodynamics. Or, as the ignorant would say, it is chaos causing.

      His largest error, logistics wise, is probably as you say (with due credit to yours truly) - he really cannot separate himself so well from his formative years in the israeli system. To project that upon the Jews of the world, is, as I've come to see, quite unfair, given that the Jewish people of not-israel proceeded in their own directions, which close inspection reveals is in the process of diverging at an ever increasing pace from the Israeli experientialness (again, my [lousy] word. Heidegger would have killed me were I his student). But I cut GA some slack because something similar happened to me. First everything got linked with everything else, especially during the heady days of discovering that jews outside israel actually had something of substance to say, but the tendency was to make that instantaneously subservient to the obviously superior israeli experience (obvious to us, that is. You heard of narcissism, right?). Then, as I acquired better powers of observation, the nuances came into focus, and I came to see divergence, where originally I saw nothing but linkage (and got a huge kick out of seeing that, just as I reckon, did Gilad). Shmuel told me once on a thread long ago (like 2 months!) that Gilad has not yet managed to transcend his own captivity within the Israeli context of zionism. Took me a while but I finally figured that Shmuel may be right on that one, though it's hard to put to words just how. Suffice it to say that it's hard to shed such a deliberately programmed ultra-combative identity. One simply seeks combat, denials notewithtanding because what kind of a warrior would you be without one? On this front, if no other, I have full confidence that time will do to Gilad what it does to us all, and in that spirit am anxiously awaiting his next book.

      In the meantime, I still think he is way over-criticized for saying things not half as provocative as his more scholarly elders in the anti-zionist milieu (Judt just come to mind, and Jack Ross too, who takes few prisoners for the long ride ahead - that from a very jewish perspective too). But as many said before me, there's something about Atzmon that drives people nuts, and it's not that he is a nutzo. It is your job to figure out why you respond as you do, guns at the draw, ready for your OK Corral moment (thank you America for the excellent imagery. Suck on it, Israel!).

    • Danaa April 7, 2012 at 6:24 pm

      andrew r,

      I have no idea where you find nuttery or even the slightest hint of that nonsensical "anti-semitic" name-calling which you brandish, rather ineffectively at that.

      The quotations from Gilad that you cite are not examples of a smear, but are statements of truth that you don't want to hear. The way he talks about the continuum from Deutoronomy to present day Israel is an all too true description of the Israeli experience (even if it may not be the Jewish experience outside Israel). A continuum, straight from the bible, and through endless centuries of Jewish achievement interspersed with unrelenting of "irrational" persecution, and bingo, softly land into the modern Judaen experience, is precisely what one takes away from the bloody-mindedness of the full-bodied Israeli educational system. In Israel, being part of the collective means drawing a few minor nebulous distinctions between ancient past and present. Mostly it's all about hagiography of the ancient ancestors, including the not-so-excellent Hashmonaims, coupled with the grandiosity of the zionist project as a righteous continuation straight from Abraham and through Joshua. All embedded within a barely concealed sense of superiority over the goys and unconcealed glee over their vanquishing. That's how it is in Israel and you will not find more than a handful (ie some 10-50,000 max) who are not convinced that all Arabs are inferior, that islam and christianity are thoroughly inferior and that most goys are simply not as smart - in the aggregate - as "The Jews" (in israel that kind of generalization is more than a little common, even if it gives you the shivers). The rest is just political correctness meant to produce plausible deniability for cover (easily done, them goys again, being not quite so smart, especially the American brand thereof, and their tribal zionist and not-so-zionist bretherns doing the wink-and-nod thingy).

      FYI, not once in my educational experience were the atrocities committed by Joshua's army questioned (this may have changed now. People did learn to question a little more, even in Israel. They have TV now and internet, after all). Not once was a voice raised against the treatment of the Arabs (which is still largely true the few 10's of 1000's exceptions duly noted). Not once were any of us in the slightest doubt as to the absolute righteousness of the israeli enterprise as a conquest as commendable as Joshua's (in fact, more commendable because not all the indigenous ones were killed. Most were successfully "dispersed". Such progress!). And that's before Greater Israel venture comes in, something which we all believed in, even if the more pragmatist of us would be willing to relinquish most of it in the interest of some peace and quiet.

      Yes, Gilad comes from the bowels of the zionist experience which are suffused with the immorality of teaching the young that they are, indeed, superior. And that the "others" had it coming. He is the one who tells it like it is, and you the one with no clue how the entire educational and cultural experience of Israel is one of continuous propagandization meant to show your "own" in good light and the "others" in bad. Is that zionist experience any worse than any other colonialist experience? the answer Gilad comes up with - and I agree with him - is yes, partially BECAUSE of the subversion of millenia of Jewish experience and body of work that was committed in the process.

      Gilad is not engaging in satire. I'll agree with you on that. He is telling a truth that many of us know first hand. It is an inconvenient truth because the "good jews" outside israel who grew up on some "Tikun Olam" carefully selected concepts cannot bear to face.

      That being said, I do not agree with some of Gilad's more over-reaching assertions, such as the excursions into marxist territory, but there can be absolutely no doubt that zionism did intend to "rob the land" so they can "work the land" and in doing so found justification in both jewish and socialist texts. Had the outcome been any better, had israel gone with the times and made serious efforts to redeem it's unsavory beginnings, perhaps those textual argumentations could have gone by the wayside, as so many did throughout human history.But that, unfortunately, has not been the case, and is indeed getting worse not better. As already noted on MW threads, one can find anything one wants in the jewish texts (Bible, Talmud, Philosophy, you name it). What's in the texts has been subjected to centuries of interpretations. What you do choose to pick is out of the texts is what matters. And what israel and the present-day zionists have picked was the immoral justification for outright colonialism, just as more pious souls outside israel picked the much more enlightening and upliftingly universal portions. It's not what's there in Judaism that's immoral, it's that zionism picked out of it all some of the shadier, anachronistic, less universal portions, that rendered the entire experience deeply immoral. In the process giving a really bad name to Judaism itself.

      To me it is the present day Israeli state-of-being-outside-time that is anti-semitic, for, among others, it cares so little for people who happen to be Jewish, and indeed often wishes them to come to harm (not always sub-consciously, either) in the vain hope that they will thus be motivated to redeem themselves from commit the cardinal sin of not wanting to live on that little stolen piece of land.

      Far from being an anti-semite, Gilad has digested his own growing up experience with aplomb and he is now overcome by nausea. Which state of being he deigns to share with us, unpleasant as it is. The least you can do is learn to deal with some indigestion instead of waving libelious assorted "antisemitic" Dersh-like trops in the hope that something might stick.

      Phew...that was way too long.... (but so was andrew r).

    • Danaa April 6, 2012 at 3:52 pm

      “WWDD” (what would Danaa do?)

      She would be shocked....and awed by such exhibits of temperance! and in the face of a traditional seder provocation, no less! hope you get through it quick, is all she can say (we already know it'll be in one peace)..

      And not even one little olive? a tiny green, red and black flag, carefully hidden just under the afikoman stash - would that be too much to ask? no eye rolls during the recitations of the plagues upon the innocents? not even a symbolic walking out during the dipping in glory of god's massacre of the first borns? say, for a bathroom break?

      But then Danaa ain't got nowhere to go this passover night (except to the local church service of the seder tradition "as Jesus would have experienced it"). Ah, the sacrifices we must make for universal justice!

      PS if you invite danaa over next year, perhaps a demonstration of proper intemperance can be arranged? with recitations of selections from a book the title of which ends with a question mark? won't be boring, promise!

    • Danaa April 5, 2012 at 6:58 pm

      The ultimate irony: Israel - and anything to do with it - as a taboo subject. And not just among jewish people. The subject that dares not speak its name in family gatherings around the seder table, or in polite society, in general.

      Today, a non-Jewish friend put the perfect words to it:

      Israel, a topic bathed in bitter contention.

      When I mention to people - average people in anywhere, America - where I am from, there is more often than not an awkward moment of silence, as people try hard to think of something polite to say. 99% of the time, no further questions come my way. At least till I add the somewhere else from which I hail, and one can stick the relief that follows with a fork. Halleluiah, their faces say that which their words don't, and cannot.

  • A twitter debate on Israel/Palestine and racism
    • Danaa April 3, 2012 at 12:25 pm with 1 replies

      Theo, the same is true about Romania. People evicted or deported during WWII or during the persecutions of the communist regime that took over can claim Romanian citizenship.

      It is true that every Israeli who can arms themselves with a second citizenship. Unfortunately, too many of those Israelis who do become dual citizens and start to reside in places like Hungary and Romania and Germany still bring with them the total arrogance, selfishness and disregard for others that they imbibed growing up in Israel. The sense of exceptionalism coupled with consdescention to others are not as easy to shed as domicile.

  • Former State Dep't official says Obama calls for human rights and democracy are 'undercut' by position on Palestinians
    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 2:03 pm

      I think they have been playing with the software for a few days now. I noticed a few days ago that some comments came with new color highlights when clicked. Others not. Now this comment disappearing business. They should put up a notice, let people know what's happening.

  • Marwan Barghouti calls for popular uprising for statehood. Israel puts him in solitary confinement
    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 6:45 pm

      Bumblebye, same here. icky system....

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 6:44 pm with 1 replies

      And when I post a comment, instead of letting me see it so I can edit it closes all the comment threads, and drops me back to the end.

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 6:43 pm

      alec, some of us can be a bit unruly, if not rude. That includes yours truly.

      Personally I am not crazy about "user interface" in general. Things were just fine before. Anything that hides any comment will make me suspicious because there are certain individuals who, on recent discussions expressed profound desire to eliminate all comments, period. They are people like Donald, Bruce and Green, ie, the "politeness" brigade. There were also the good threads that were closed down because, well, they seemed to be too popular for comfort.

      As for "interfaces" - put me down as one who despises the "smart phone" craze. Just another tool to keep people from communicating for real. About facebook, the less is said the better, and Twitter is an idiocy sold to the communicating masses as an "improvement". Improvement over expression, I suppose and perhaps useful for the ADD generation.

      BTW, even when I click on the "show all comments" it continues to hide some selectively.

      can we just opt to go back to the way things were? I want to see all the comments all the time and don't need anyone sorting through them for me.

      How's that for unruly?

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 5:27 pm

      OK, one more comment. When I toggle on the "show all comments" I lose my place through all the comments that come back.

      Change is not always good.

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 5:20 pm with 3 replies

      I agree Taxi. I think it is all part of the intent to separate out the comments from the precuror article. What will happen is that most people will not bother clicking on most of the comments, new or old, and that's the idea.

      Better threading of the comment is all I ever asked for, and all I ever needed. Some improvements are not really improvements to free discussion but are designed to produce a bull pen effect, the better to corral the unruly and disobedient. These will always be sold as "better interface".

  • My spirit is American (a religious manifesto)
    • Danaa April 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm with 1 replies

      alec,

      For what it's worth, I like the new color coding of names to new comments, without hiding the old ones. This way we can see what people are responding to and what popped in as we were engaged elsewhere. Plus this system can alleviate concerns by some of our suspicious minded bretherns and sisterns that murky nefariousness is afoot.

      Plus the green is eye catching. Who wouldn't want their smashing moniker so decorated? this comment is just to see whether I get dressed in pretty green.

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 10:00 pm

      hophmi, as long as you understand that we all know that the reason for the rise in the price of gas is one - Israel and its ludicrous demands that America and the rest of the world sanction Iran.

      Everyday, when I hear people complain that they pay another $60./month for gas I remind them that it's an "Israel tax". or rather "Lobby Tax". If you love israel enough to pay another $1,000.-2,000./year then all is fine. Some are surprised but most realize it's true, even if they watch Fox.

      No way israel or the jewish community that supports, advocates and shrills for sanctions, and just aches to murder Iranian people, no way they are walking away without guilt attached where it belongs.

      I think everyone should do the same - yell it from the rooftops if you must - the high cost of gas is for Israel and the settlements - and that The Lobby and the jewish establishment are what's behind it all.

      maybe we could start a donation pool for poorer people who are hit by the cost of gas. have The Lobby open a refund line of about $60.-100./month for all who wish to receive compensation. Maybe we could even start with you, hophmi. How about setting aside a few $1,000's for some hard hit commuters?

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 7:02 pm

      alec, surely you don't expect people to read through all comments every time they read a feature? I never do. As in, never. I read when I can what I can on the fly. I might read one comment or five but certainly not all.. No one has that kind of time. Sometimes, I might read part of a comment then a day later read the rest if I decide there was something of interest there, but if it's not there because it "aged", well then out of sight, out of mind, as they say.

      I'll ask again, I prefer to see ALL THE COMMENTS ALL THE TIME. I don't suffer from ADHD or ADD or any other attention deficit, just from lack of time. Like most of your readers here, I can also scan through comment threads perfectly well, just as I scan through articles, books and everything else I read. If something catches my attention I'll come back fro the rest. But if the "rest" disappeared, oh well, there's more elsewhere, right?

      I know some would rather have comments that read like twitter, but put me down as one who's bored by the typical one liners that populate so many comment blogs. And many times, when I like a comment especially well (and there are some I liked a lot more than the article itself that precipitated it) I'll go back to it several times over.

      A comment thread I really despise is that of the dailyKos. been out of there for ages. And when the comments went to hell in a hand basket (ie, they turned into twittering fluff), I stopped reading the blog too. Good thing too. I heard there's nothing worth reading there any longer, just electioneering and sniveling at some republican antic or two.

      If you make the comments disappear, maybe I won't come back for the article either. The headline will suffice. Do you think that's what people want?

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 1:34 pm with 11 replies

      How come some comments come up as "show content"? seems without rhyme or reason. maybe the software is being worked on?

  • SFO Jewish Library (you read that right-- library) cancels panel on Jewish activism because participant supports boycott
    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 12:05 pm

      Because the Israel Firsters have so totally hijacked the state department, we now cannot believe a single word of what anyone says about eg, Syria or Mali or China or anything. Since all the israeli Firsters are Jewish, and virtually all the people known to be Jewish in the State department are Israel Firsters, we should conclude that we have no state department capable of serving American interests. So what that means - this is for you Krausss - is that if we hear anyone with Jewish name quoted about any place in the world, we can safely assume it's something about "what's good for Israel" first. This also means that the interests of the empire builders have been subverted to serve those of the empire's vassal.

      So naturally, when Hillary talks about human rights anywhere, we can just laugh and wonder whatever does she mean.

      For example, there are now more than a few indications that the US, no doubt prodded by Israel, is trying to buy a revolution in Syria. The PTBs looked at what transpired following the Arab Spring in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya, and concluded that it's something they can work with. As for Syria, whatever citizen participation there was in the protests originally, has long since been deflected to serve somebody's geo-political games.

      I recommend reading Moon of Alabama for the latest power plays on this front.

  • Jewish food fight (at Park Slope Co-op)
    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 12:19 pm

      Shmuel - it's all in the fervor and the passion, you know, which i can summon now and then (having once done some acting once helps). On a good day can pass for old preacher style. I suspect you are appealing to reason and being your temperate rational self. But if respondents are imbued with conviction, perhaps sometimes raw emotion can work better? Fight fire with fire, as they say and I am OK with fire (and smoking mirrors). At least, it's lively, offered as a specialite de la maison in lieu of anything edible.

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 1:45 am with 3 replies

      More for you tombishop:

      I seem to be having some success convincing some fundamentalist Christians that God in his mysterious ways may have mixed up the deck a bit. Since it is the Palestinians who are in all likelihood the true descendents of the bibilical Jews, it is their return that will hasten Jesus' re-arrival on earth, rather than that of the very assimilated Jews of everywhere else. They seem especially interested in the historical demographics of diaspora Jews as presented by Prof. Sand. I had opportunity to recommend the book to more than one. And yes, several had to consult with their priest on this most serious matter.

      Maybe I should write to Hagee? nahhh......I have a more immediate worry - what if a priest actually asks me to speak before the congregation?

    • Danaa April 2, 2012 at 1:37 am with 1 replies

      tombishop:

      have you counted the number of christian zionists among the co-op opponents of BDS? let me know if you found more than 5. Actually, how about just one? (they don't, for the most part live in Brooklyn, did you know that?).

      BTW, Hagee's organization and fulminations about Israel-must-be-for-the Jews is a decisive minority among Christians of all denominations, including the very devout. Where I am often nowadays, there are quite a few fundamentalist Christians, including Baptists and Pentacostals. For the most part, Israel and I/P are quite low on their list of priorities. For the most part, they tend to be rather more concerned for the unborn than the born-in-the-middle-east.

      For some solid educational material on who and how many Christian Zionists there are, and the true magnitude of their impact (negligible), I recommend looking through the archives of Thomas Rutherford, a commenter on this site, who seems to know much about the Christian demographics of America. Not that I'd expect you to follow this recommendation, since knowledge and truth is not what you might be after. More like cover, one would suspect.

  • Ethnocentrism and journalism (Beinart's double standard for Israel and Iraq)
    • Danaa March 30, 2012 at 12:39 pm

      Phil, you cut Beinart way too much slack. has he apologized for his own indecency as a human being? has he recognized himself as part barbarian? has he done a thing for a single Iraqi deprived of his family for the benefit of the neocon pipe dream? What does an apology mean? saying you are sorry? that's what people say when they spilled their milk on the table. What does one say for having supported the spilling of countless lives?

      "So sorry, I was wrong", says the Beinart, now that the shrieks of pain and loss abated enough to allow him to pull his head out of his sand bottom.

      Beinart only repented because it turned out the little "war", the little "shock and awe" was perhaps not so good for the Jews. I remain to be convinced that he cares for humans who are not Jews.

      For you Phil, his so-called repentance give a measure of comfort. But that's because you parse progress in small measures, and hope that big change of hearts is afoot.

      Some of us don't share this optimism because the essence of Beinart has not changed. He just shifted his position because it reflected poorly on "his people". Bottomline is - it's not the palestinian crying kid he felt for. It's for having caught himself as caring so little for others not-Jewish that their humanity hardly entered his considerations for so many years. What kind of lousy upbringing produces such egocentric, narcissitic blobness?

    • Danaa March 30, 2012 at 12:25 pm with 1 replies

      I agree with joemowrey on the hollowness of Beinart's repentance.

      What does that mean "to repent"? has he put a sack over himself , covered his head with ashes and broke into lamentations at every square for the 100's of thousands of dead Iraqis? no, but that would be a good beginning.

      Instead, he says it was a "mistake". But not because he recognizes his own position as evil (which is what it was). But because his and the neocon's little war did not go well.

      Beinart is as ethnocentric and tribalist as ever. I look at his smug "repentance", the utter disingenuousness of his "remorse" and I shiver in the icy winter of his soul. As he bloviated, and Goldberg bleated, the bloated bodies of the dead floated down the rivers, nameless and unaccounted. But see? they were not Jews! mere Arabs, somewhere in the Middle east, far far from the maddening crowds of the jewish-centric halls of power that wrought this barbarism upon them.

      I look at Beinart and his smug, pretend-shy smile, bolstered by years of privilege and endless shoulder patting from his similarly situated ethno-peers, and I feel nauseated. As for admiration, well, rats are admirable too in their survival skills. Don't they leave the sinking ship first?

      A few years of community service in Hebron is too little. I say, just 1 year community service in Sadr district in Baghdad would perhaps. Not a jew in sight there, and still, somehow they are people. That would be quite an interesting lesson for the beinarts of the world. Might even help unfreeze his soul some.

  • Barghouti and Waskow debate BDS on Democracy Now
    • Danaa March 26, 2012 at 4:12 pm

      hophmi:

      It’s quite clear that indiscriminate BDS has the result of strengthening the Israeli right by putting the Israeli left on the defensive.

      The israeli right is strengthening and the left is on the defensive without any help from BDS.

      Israel has been on the move rightward, at an accelerating pace, for many years now and the trends are crystal clear. No amount of sweet talking will do when the plan is to annex the West bank and get rid of the Palestinians.

      As for the left in israel - please share with us your magnifying glasses. We might actually find us a few thousand if we really look hard.

      The israelis - as a collective - along with their zionist/Jewish supporters in the US and elsewhere are long past the point of no return in their approach. they want the West bank - as much of it as they can - preferably with minimal number of palestinians in it. How to get there from here is really the only question on their mind ("their" as in the vast majority of Israelis + people like you who support what that country is all about).

      One of the purposes of BDS is to let Israelis (the collective, forget the government) know that the world has no intention of looking away as they embark on their dastardly deeds. BDS is there to clarify that there are consequences. It is not about "peace" because that's just a buzz word. The israelis already have all the peace they can handle, now they are just looking for a way to get away with what they really want.

      Therefore, the way to look at BDS is as a last ditch effort to prevent the truly abominable acts israel is determined to carry out. It's about saving the Palestinians from the fate that awaits them, if the world takes off its eyes for a minute.

      The corollary that since BDS is about saving a people from expulsion and increasingly brutal persecution, it should be expanded to include all of israel to maximize the effect. preferably I'd like to see the kind of sanctions imposed on South Africa. Better yet, impose world wide Iran style sanctions on the country of Israel. Were that to be done, we might actually see some movement. Israelis may not care about others, but they do care about themselves.

  • Mustafa Bargouti: Jerusalem is at the heart of the Palestinian cause
    • Danaa March 26, 2012 at 10:32 pm with 6 replies

      giladg,
      The Jews on this website need to call on the Palestinians to recognize the special connection Jews have to Jerusalem, not in place of their own connection, but a special connection never-the-less.

      Hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions of Jews do not accept any special connection of jews to jerusalem, other than as a historical water shed and some points of interest in the ancient history of humans who washed through the Middle east - oftentimes on their way somewhere else. May be it's you who needs to accept that only SOME Jews have this over-wrought attachement to the dust of musty history, now mostly lost to legend. It really is a pathology - there ought to be a name for this kind of morbid attachment to supposed ancestors.

      Jerusalem may be at the heart of the Palestinian cause. It is however at the heart of Judaism, which is a lot, lot more than a “cause”.

      You seem to have very strange notions about what Judaism is. Would you by any chance be a recent convert? that would explain your state of rapture. maybe you could get over that with some deep meditation and good meds?

      BTW, some Christians also consider jerusalem to be at the heart of their religion. It's where the best of the rapture will come to pass (and there are lots of good visionary books that tackle just this fascinating subject). Do you, perchance, plan to be around for that momentous event? and if so, do you plan to be "Left Behind"?

  • Settlers aren't freelancers-- Israeli government is behind them all the way
  • Wikileaks: Google caught in spy games on execs and 'regime change'
  • J Street and Peace Now organize opposition to BDS
    • Danaa March 20, 2012 at 1:04 pm

      Here is the link for the Tikkun Olam article. Richard pretty much nails the points down as well as anyone I've seen,

      link to richardsilverstein.com

      I'd suggest that people who contributed to this charade called "J Street" in the past would direct their contributions to blogs like MW and Tikkun Olam, and spare a little for the always great Glenn Greenwald who is there day in, day out doing the good work.

    • Danaa March 20, 2012 at 12:48 pm with 1 replies

      J Street ought to just fold up their tent and go get absorbed in AIPAC. They have accomplished nothing that I can can see. It's basically a schmoozing shop where Jews can come together and beat thee campaign drums to re-elect Obama. A cohort of the "nice" pretend progressives - unlike those other Jews who are friends of Hagee and cavort with awful Republicans.

      J Street and that other Peace something group (Jews for Peace someday?) have not been useful in saving a single Palestinian from the clutches of the Storm troopers and settler militias enforcing the settlement regime. Now that their Sheikh Jarrah Friday events ("protests") died down to a trickle, they need some new happenings to justify their existence. Wonder what that might be. Too bad that Ben Ami turned out to be just a good zionist agent, his claim to fame being that he doesn't like Lieberman or Yahoo. Oh yes, he is also polite and knows how to equivocate better on Iran.

      Can anyone point to a single success by J Street? have they been instrumental in turning a single vote in the US congress? have they succeeded in staying a single pro-settlement veto by the US ?

      There was a really good take-down of J Street by Richard Silverstein from 3-4 days ago on his blog. It's well worth reading.

Showing comments 1371 - 1301
Page:

Comments are closed.