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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
"Well Moose……if not military force…
Exactly how do you envision Palestine getting their land back even if they go to the ICC?"
And what use is bringing up an utterly unrealistic military option?
A state's military will only perform as good as the rest of its institutions, as it is ME states are barely functioning let alone being capable of waging such a war.
"ColinWright says:
September 21, 2012 at 6:45 pm
A foreskin is not a ‘functional body part.’ What function does it perform?
"
Google is your friend:
link to birthtakesavillage.com
Unbelievable! what a sick, sick joke...
Good point.
Effective missile defense will allow Israel to bomb it's neighbors at will without much risk from retaliation, that is it's main purpose.
Funny how Apple did more than good without any Israeli research center all this time and that this only happened after Jobs's death.
You should at least have the decency to STFU instead of blaming the victim for being murdered. Shame on you.
You're right, we should look to Israel this would never happen there.
link to haaretz.com
"No. The Zionist leadership had believed from the beginning that their objective for a Jewish majority in Palestine would come about by means of massive Jewish immigration, not expulsion. Plans within the movement at the end of the 1930s envisioned the influx of a million Jews to Palestine within a decade. That number, of course, was aimed at guaranteeing a Jewish majority, which is why the Arabs were so intransigent and hostile to immigration: because they wished to prevent a demographic transformation. "
Immigration wouldn't have created a Jewish majority, period. Had all 900,000 Palestinians in the territories that became Israel been allowed to remain, today their total numbers would easily have outnumbered those of Jews.
"The Arabs, in effect, were demanding that the Israelis take into their state over three quarter of a million refugees, created by the war of aggression waged by them, which would make the Jews a 41% minority in their own state, and without any assurance that even this would impel the Arab states to make peace with Israel. Really incredible. "
What's the matter, I thought Jewish immigration would solve everything.
"The full return of the refugees to Israel in 1949 with the surrounding states still in the midst of a state of hostilities would have put some 750,000 (or more) Palestinians along with some 160,000 remaining Palestinians alongside some 650,000 Jews, thus making the Jews a (41%) minority in their own state. This would seem to have blunted the Jewish people’s right to self-determination, and negated the entire reason for the creation of the Jewish state in the first place.
Jewish self-determination did not need to come at the price of the Palestinians’ exodus."
You do realize the blatant contradiction here, right?
Palestinian refugees now number almost 5 million and without the horrid conditions of refugee camps their numbers would have been much larger, the Zionists would not have allowed their Jewish majority threatened, they "had" to ethnically cleanese them.
Lol this reminds me of a Seinfeld episode
"Hey, who do you think is the most unattractive world leader?
"Living or all time?"
"All time."
"Well, if it's all time, then there's no contest. It begins and ends with Brezhnev."
"I dunno. You ever get a good look at DeGaulle?"
"Lyndon Johnson was uglier than DeGaulle."
"I got news for you. Golda Meir could make 'em all run up a tree."
- Elaine, Jerry and George, in "The Outing"
“Any medium to long range missiles would be destroyed long before they even lifted off.”
LOL have you looked at a map? Iran is no Lebanon, a tiny piece of land with no air defenses right next door to Israeli air bases.
“Those that did leave Iran (or Lebanon) would be shot out of the air. ”
Some missiles will probably be shot down by ABMs, some will get through.
"Hezbollah will have no problem delivering the nuclear bomb Iran will give them."
So you would have us believe that Iran is willing to be literally wiped off the map by a US and Israeli nuclear response. This extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence, which of course, you don't have.
Actually many Sunni extremists hate the Shia and actually believe that Iran, the US and Israel are secretly in cahoots, believe it or not.
"The greater lie is that Sharon’s withdrawal from Gaza was intended as a prelude to further withdrawals and a peace agreement. This is how Sharon’s senior adviser Dov Weisglass, who was also his chief negotiator with the Americans, described the withdrawal from Gaza, in an interview with Ha’aretz in August 2004:
What I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements [i.e. the major settlement blocks on the West Bank] would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns … The significance [of the agreement with the US] is the freezing of the political process. And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion about the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package that is called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed from our agenda indefinitely. And all this with [President Bush’s] authority and permission … and the ratification of both houses of Congress."
link to lrb.co.uk
link to news.bbc.co.uk
So far this plan has worked remarkably well.
"Under the belt. If the UN gives a standing ovation to this, Obama has no choice but to throw his weight on the Israeli side"
No matter what kind of speach Abbas would've made, Obamas stance was predetermined.
Salafi party holds Egyptian govt responsible for Israeli Embassy unrest
link to almasryalyoum.com
Meanwhile the sixth Egyptian soldier has succumbed to his wounds on Saturday
link to translate.google.com
link to ynetnews.com
Having spoken to security officer Yonatan, whom Netanyahu mentioned in his Saturday speech, he claimed that reports of a near-lynch were exaggerated. "I was there several times and have spoken to Yoni and the reports do not exactly reflect reality."
"Netanyahu also referred to what he saw as a link between events such as the attack on the Israeli embassy and the stalled Middle East peace process.
"
Gee, ya think so? .... doh!
Eerie, the same tactics are used by the Syrian regime:
"Regime snipers carefully selected their targets on the basis of specific criteria (filming demonstrations with cell phones, using megaphones, carrying banners, etc) designed to incapacitate mid-level organizers. It took nearly three months for the death toll in Syria to surpass the number of people murdered by Egypt’s government in just 18 days—an extraordinarily large bang for the bullet."
link to nationalinterest.org
JPV is correct, as long as the status quo persists continued violence is 100% guaranteed. Of course getting the zionists to understand that simple fact is utterly futile, they will insist that continuing the occupation and using more force to subdue the Palestinians is the only way.
What's wrong with Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch?
And now you agree with that quote hophmi? You've always maintained that Palestinians are filled with irrational genocidal joo hatred.
From Uri Avnery's interview
"I spent the first 10 years of my life in Germany. I saw how Hitler rose to power. There was no great revolution when he rose to power. Nothing dramatic happened. It was a small step.
"When my father decided to leave Germany a few months after the Nazi regime came to power, all his relatives told him he was crazy. Today, all their names written on the list of Holocaust victims in that city's town square.
"We are on a fast track to a regime of that kind. All my life I dreaded having to say those words. I always said: 'Forget it, you can't compare anything to the Nazis.' That was a mistake. I'm sorry I spoke like that."
The case of 10 year old girl Abir Aramin should be a front page post. She was murdered in 2007 by the vile Israeli border police, a rubber bullet tore the back of Abir's head off and now the israeli supreme court has rejected a petition to put her murderers on trial.
link to richardsilverstein.com
Poorly made, sexist GOI commissioned hasbara.
link to 972mag.com
Tragically so, it's all about self-interests and the Palestinians thanks to Israel are an occupied, oppressed, stateless, powerless people who have nothing to offer these countries and Israel is cynically exploiting this situation.
"The following items would have reached terrorists in Gaza aboard the “Victoria” ship in March this year, had the Israeli naval blockade not existed"
No, Israel had intelligence reports about weapons being aboard the ship, without that Israel would have been none the wiser and the ship would have reached its destination. So again, the blockade had zilch to do with stoping the weapons.
No they don't need this blockade witch all it does is forces the Palestinians to live off aid and makes their lives as miserable as possible. I've given you the example of Karine A. It happened in 2002 300 miles off of Israels coast in the Red Sea without protest from anyone, all they need is good intelligence and a competent navy.
The ship was headed for Egypt not any Gaza port, and Israel doesn't need this blockade to intercept a suspected smuggling vessel on the high seas.(2002 Karine A intercepted in the Red Sea, international waters) Israel is not de-developing Gaza in order to protect itself, its goal is to collectively target civilians for punishment.
"Notice the C-704 missiles, which are able to destroy a whole ship with a single missile.
Still think it’s funny?"
Hizbullah used such weapons quite effectively against one of Israel's hi-tech corvettes in 2006, perfectly legitimate targets.
Terrible, terrible idea the Greek people don't disserve it and Israel and its cheerleaders would love to have the spotlight away from them.
LOL at all these dumb bigots.
Not sabotage? I don't buy it, Turkey is doing its best to restore its honeymoon relations with Israel.
"They consider themselves above the law "
No kidding
“I was the Minister of Justice. I am a lawyer…But I am against law — international law in particular. Law in general.”
-Tzipi Livni
I wonder how many thousands of Palestinians are left crippled for life thanks to the glorious IDF.
Everything that isn't GOI approved is a pro-Hamas propaganda stunt.
"This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk."
O yes we all know that the mighty IDF is expert at murdering civilians, no need to remind us.
"Well, IDF can eradicate entire “palestinian” territories to dust and rubble within less that 24 hours using only conventional weapons.
Just imagine – no Palestinians whatsoever within one day. No children with rocks, no fathers with shahid belts, nothing"
What an incredibly lame argument. Oh I'm sure there are zionists who would love to do that but you see all the hasbara in the world and even the US won't be able to wipe that blood off Israel's hands. Pariah status and international sanctions at a minimum would be 100% guaranteed.
Gazan waters != Israeli waters what's she trying to peddle?
And it's funny and pathetic how hasbarist Michael Weiss refers to these unarmed protests as "raids".
"Captain Samer Shahin from the military intelligence division is hereby appointed to the leadership of the group assigned to break-in and infiltrate deep into the occupied Syrian Golan Heights with a specified pathway to avoid land mines."
Such a sloppy fake why would the Syrians refer to the Syrian Heights by the hebrew name Golan and notice the word "infiltrate" which is heavily used in Israeli propaganda when referring to Palestinians wanting to return to their homes.
"Beyond TOS, I’ve found that the back story of DS9, with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, is the closest metaphor for what Israel is doing to Palestine."
Producer Rick Berman compared them to "The Kurds, the Palestinians, the Jews in the 1940s, the boat people from Haiti – unfortunately, the homeless and terrorism are problems [in every age]."
"It isn’t the mentality of Israelis. It is one soldier who should be disciplined for his inexcusable behavior."
This is the real ugly face of the occupation, it's no isolated behavior. Trying to paint this as a fluke is really delusional. Wake up!
NYTimes
Protesters Killed in Clashes With Israel
Israel’s borders erupted as thousands of Palestinians marched from Syria, Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank on the anniversary when Arabs mourn Israel’s creation.
WOW this reads like it's coming straight out of Arutz Sheva colonist propaganda, they aren't even trying anymore.
"I seriously doubt, even with all the stealth and jamming that was used, that the Pakistan government was in total ignorance of US military presence there. They may not have known the target or the mission, but they couldn’t have been in the total dark. Just doesn’t make sense. "
Classified black stealth helicopters and all but they still had to fly low so the chance that the Pakistani military discovered them simply from visual reports is pretty high but still they couldn't do anything about it, they'd be crazy if they started shooting at them. So yes, they weren't totally in the dark, although I doubt they knew about the mission.
"The media there is asking how did foreign helicopters get into the heart of Pakistan without the military knowing? It’s just not possible."
Yes it's very possible, they've used stealth helicopters, electronic jamming, stealth UAVs, if there is any country that has the means and technology to pull this off is the US.
Stealth Helos Used In Osama Raid
Operation launched by Pakistani forces? Pakistani helicopter? don't buy it one bit, there are published photos of the tail rotor section of the wreckage and it has radar deflection features ie stealth...
"We welcome truths, even painful ones like this."
Yeah, you sure do welcome painful truths, like say... the Nakba.
I agree with The Angry Arab on Haniyehs idiocy
"Bin Laden won't be missed (or should not be missed): not in the East and not in the West. And that idiot Isma`il Haniyyah of Hamas is only confirming Western suspicions and Zionist allegations that all Islamists are alike. This will be his own doing: he just rendered a great service for Zionist propaganda. His remark will now be available in 34 languages and Israeli occupation embassies will circulate special brochures containing his lousy remarks in which he paid tribute to Bin Laden. Expect a book or two to be published with titles like: Hamas and Bin Laden or the Unholy Alliance between Hamas and Al-Qa`idah, etc. But Hamas deserves what its get: the lousy Fath organization is now replaced with a lousy branch of the lousy Muslim Brotherhood."
She and her family were very lucky, I know from visiting an internet aviation forum, where several Syrian members, all very patriotic were rounded up by the notorious Air Force Intelligence Directorate in Jan 2008. To this day no word has been heard about them. Syria IS a repressive police state, no one should forget that and no one should be surprised at such stories.
Still, I doubt Assad Jr. has the stomach to do something on that scale.
He means this
link to en.wikipedia.org
I think you have to put this under religious intolerance folder unfortunately there are more and more Sunnis who talk about the dirty Rafida (pejorative term for Shia), blame it on the venom of Saudi religious propaganda.
Interesting article if true
link to articles.boston.com
"EVIDENCE IS now in that President Barack Obama grossly exaggerated the humanitarian threat to justify military action in Libya. The president claimed that intervention was necessary to prevent a “bloodbath’’ in Benghazi, Libya’s second-largest city and last rebel stronghold.
But Human Rights Watch has released data on Misurata, the next-biggest city in Libya and scene of protracted fighting, revealing that Moammar Khadafy is not deliberately massacring civilians but rather narrowly targeting the armed rebels who fight against his government.
Misurata’s population is roughly 400,000. In nearly two months of war, only 257 people — including combatants — have died there. Of the 949 wounded, only 22 — less than 3 percent — are women. If Khadafy were indiscriminately targeting civilians, women would comprise about half the casualties."
So according to this, a ruthless dictator is better at avoiding civilian casualties than "the most moral army in the world".
Walid, google Rafael Trophy and IMI Iron Fist, they have been in development for some time and after the thrashing Hizbullah gave them in Lebanon they have since began to deploy them on tanks operating in Gaza with great success: link to haaretz.com
link to jpost.com
They will most likely get a lot of export orders for these since they will tout them as being combat tested which is a major selling point.
Yes you are probably right that passive resistance also wouldn't work, the Palestinians are in an impossible situation but targeting civilians will make it much worse.
The new active defense systems deployed on Israeli tanks makes anti-tank missiles obsolete, that's probably the reason they resorted to using it on a civilian target. The already astronomical military imbalance between the two sides is getting wider to the point that the only chance of hitting at Israel is to only target civilians. That's why peaceful resistance is the only viable form of resistance for the Palestinians, armed conflict only ends up boosting Israeli military and security industries.
Umm, this is a different poster, S-a-m-u-e-l.
Sarcasm, brothamo sarcasm...
[Earlier Friday, Salafi faction At-Tawheed wa Al-Jihad denied involvement in the abduction and murder of Arrigoni, but said it was "a natural outcome of the policy of the government carried out against the Salafi."]
link to maannews.net
Natural outcome huh? This leaves no doubt in my mind that salafis are behind this vile murder, their "denial" is just an attempt to save off the Palestinians anger at them.
Fail, LLi, fail we are not racists like you who would blame all the Palestinain people for the actions of an extreme minority of sick minded individuals.
Sigh, I was absolutely sure that those responsible were salafi jihadist scum even as soon as I heard the news. I knew it was only a matter of time before they would start to do something like this, they are absolutely ruthless and are probably behind the murder of Juliano as well.
"why didn’t i think of this! guilty feat and ddi, do you think we are idiots?"
LOL I'm not actually endorsing this guy, he's clearly a delusional Hasbara hack.
link to israelinsider.net
(But not all the consequences have been negative. Perhaps you should rewrite that as “After WW2, US involvement has always lead to negative consequences.”)
Even that isn't true, without the US all of the Korean peninsula would have been the damned hell hole that the north now is.
Hmm, interesting:
[8:43 a.m. Tuesday ET, 2:43 p.m. Tuesday in Libya] The United Arab Emirates had been prepared to send two aircraft squadrons to participate in the international effort to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, said Maj. Gen. (Staff) Pilot Khaled Abdullah Al-Buainnain - the former commander of the Emirates' air force and air defense. However, he said, those plans have changed due to criticism by the United States and the European Union of the Gulf Cooperation Council's deployment of troops to help the monarchy stabilize Bahrain. The UAE has chosen not to take a military role in Libya until Washington and the European Union clarify their position on the use of troops in Bahrain, but it will contribute to the humanitarian effort in Libya, Al-Buainnain said.
"We have long memories, we won’t forget."
Guess what, the Lebanese Shia(Hizbullah) will never forget what your democracy did to them in 1982.
"I do find it perplexing how extremists like Krauss throw around terms like “genocidal”, in reference to Hezbollah, in spire of the fact they’ve killed very few people and repeatedly demonstrated remarkable restraint."
Indeed they have, did you know that unlike other Muslim and Christian Lebanese militias, Hizbullah never engaged in sectarian bloodletting?
Not really, Iraq was about "securing the realm" for Israel and Western oil companies were already in Libya.
I don't see why anyone would be ambivalent about this, IMO it's the most legitimate Western military intervention since the Korean War.
1644: Reaction to events from Nobel Peace Prize Winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who says he supports the use of air strikes against Gaddafi as a last resort. The South African tells the BBC's World Service the scenes of brutality meted out by the Libyan security forces against their own civilians made God weep and brought shame on Africa. He says the international community is required to act to protect the Libyan people.
He must be a warmonger, right?
"Waking up to so many civilians killed by coalition airstrikes"
Link?
The Libyans have pleaded desperately for someone to intervene, in fact they are angry that the West didn't start bombing Q sooner, that's good enough justification for me. The rebels simply don't have the training, the firepower to stop the the madman's assault, there is simply no other choice other than letting Q slaughter them all.
1748: French aircraft have destroyed four Libyan tanks in air strikes to the south-west of Benghazi, Al-Jazeera television has reported
Targeting Libya's infrastructure would be insane, what they have in mind are main battle tanks, self-propelled howitzers, aircraft. Cratering airport runways is essential to NFZ and they can be rebuilt quickly. But the most important thing is that the rebels themselves have asked, no pleaded for this help. What other alternative do you propose?
Well it's either bombing Q's forces or he's left to win, it's that simple.
Without any outside intervention I really see no way for the rebels to win, this is going to end horribly. It makes me nauseous just thinking about it...
Good updates here
link to s188567700.online.de
It's amazing how the rebels manage to hold off this lunatic in spite of throwing indiscriminately every heavy weapon at his disposal. But whichever side wins the final death toll will be horrific.
"Yes, of course, empowered Jews are a “big provocation”. "
A decades long occupation is definitely a big provocation. Nice try reducing that to just Jews being empowered, how innocent sounding.
Iran not working on bomb: Israel intelligence head
Not only the PA but Hamas too
link to maannews.net
["Fatah and Hamas agree on so little; at the core of that little common denominator lies repression of dissent and suppression of freedoms," Barghouti said Monday in an email.]
"400 of 1400 killed were civilians (though the categorization differs by source). Thats 28%"
Don't know where you've pulled these bogus figures from but I trust B'Tselems assessment is closer to the truth
link to bit.ly
It's most likely the work of salafi jihadists, they are more than willing to commit these kind of atrocities...
Salafi jihadists are cowards only good at butchering defenseless people.
"If it had been this hamas person they were looking for, wouldn’t the official policy have been to arrest him?"
If it had been the person they were looking for, they would have executed him and made up a story that he pulled a weapon and they were forced to kill him.
Continuing Nakba indeed:
Israelis murder Palestinian in his own bed:
link to bbc.co.uk
From that same wiki page
''The question of whether responsibility for its destruction should rest on the shoulders of the Arab Legion or on the Haganah who had turned it into their last stronghold is debatable.''
Funny how it's not debatable when Israel destroys countless mosques using that justification.
“And efforts to threaten or kill Israelis will do nothing to help the Palestinian people – the slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance, it is injustice. Make no mistake: the courage of a man like President Abbas – who stands up for his people in front of the world – is far greater than those who fire rockets at innocent women and children.”
Not a single mention of Palestinians innocents murdered by Israel... disgusting...
Well this will surely change their minds
SHARIAH: THE THREAT TO AMERICA
AN EXERCISE IN COMPETITIVE ANALYSIS
REPORT OF TEAM ‘B’ II
link to bit.ly
I would say the chances of that happening are close to zero, the royal family has complete control over the Saudi armed forces. Any officers daring to break out of line would be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
So you actually believe that the child is faking?! You are truly despicable...
"Israeli troops 'on own side' in Lebanon clash, UN says"
link to bbc.co.uk
It looks like Israel isn't to blame for this incident. I guess this time we won't hear any more whining about the the evil antisemitic UN.
Haaretz also reported it, he was a Lt. Colonel. and another officer is severely wounded.
Looks like a pogrom to me.
Nothing wrong with that, US servicemen on US territory.
KenDavis, stop using the deaths and suffering of people you personally don't give a rat's ass about as human shields for your defense of Israels crimes.
"In other words, those who dig in their heels and find the new genetic study convincing will insist that there is now a historical basis for Jewish claims to sovereignty over the area, which means rule over non-Jews. I would much prefer to see the whole issue diminished in importance as it relates to present-day rights."
Well said.
A statement issued by the Imad Mughaniyeh group said it fired toward the patrol car near the Al-Fawwar refugee camp south of Hebron, killing one officer and injuring three others, in response to Israel's deadly raid on Gaza-bound aid fleet, killing nine passengers on board two weeks ago.
link to maannews.net
More repercussions from the flotilla massacre.
Have you no shame? The border police which is well known for it's racism and brutality murders a father of three girls and this is what you have to say? I don't know if you deserve contempt or pity.
I don't think Hamas can do that. The Israelis will simply track the RC representatives to Shalit's whereabouts and mount a commando raid.
I'd say more likely is that they were Israeli spies.
The weapon used in the video is a shotgun. If the person being shot in the video actually died then it must be the victim with the shotgun wound.
[He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."]
I'm 100% certain that the weapon used is a pump-action shotgun.
OK, I've found something VERY interesting
link to news.yahoo.com
"He said all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, Ince said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."
In light of this, I think it's very likely that this video shows an actual execution.
I think this is a riot shotgun, most likely using less than lethal "bean bag" type shotgun shells.
That's exactly the answer I've expected. His army background is the "smoking gun" that proves his “goal was to reach Gaza in order to help train and establish Hamas commando units.” Pathetic.
"That does not mean they did not take some precaution."
You said they've assaulted at night in order to take them by surprise? Have you seen the videos? No one was taken by surprise.
"The world is not black and white"
According to you it is, when it comes to Israel at least.
"Seems to me that doing it in broad daylight is much more dramatic."
No it's not. In daylight with clear visibility you could broadcast your intentions clearer, with less chance to create panic and confusion among the passengers.
"http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6511I7.htm
Israeli territorial waters are 12 miles from Gaza. It would have been much more dangerous to stop the ship there."
Please drop this ridiculous theory. If this were even remotely technically feasible we'd have heard this coming from official hasbara channels.
"What other ways?"
"According to one former top navy officer, one option was to use tugboats to push the ships off course. Another option was to damage the ships’ propellers, prevent them from sailing into Gaza and forcing them to be towed to Ashdod.
A third option was to board the ships quietly and not by helicopter.
“There were several options that the IDF had before sending troops onto the ship,” the former senior officer explained, “It is not clear that those options were completely exhausted.”"
One more thing, the Mavi Marmara was the ONLY ship boarded by Shayetet 13 commandos.
link to jpost.com
Also in Haaretz more insane accusations:
IDF: Five Gaza flotilla activists closely linked to Hamas and Jihad
"One of the activists exposed by the IDF was named as Iranian-born Fatima Mohammadi, a 31-year-old resident of the United States. According to the IDF, Mohammadi is a member of Viva Palestine, a movement that had tried bringing illegal electronic devices into the Gaza Strip."
"Ken O'Keefe, a 41-year-old citizen of the United States and Britain, was another activist named by the IDF as having links to terrorist organizations. According to the IDF, O'Keefe is an extremist who hates Israel and whose "goal was to reach Gaza in order to help train and establish Hamas commando units." "
link to haaretz.com
"Because the Mavi Marmara has 600 people on it, and the Rachel Corrie had a couple of dozen. The commandos wanted some element of surprise to protect themselves."
You're contradicting yourself. Protecting themselves from what? According to you they went in expecting no violence:
"Israelis came on the boat expecting no violence, got lots of it from a core of people who were there to be violent, and they reacted."
"And contrary to the “dramatics” you speak of, the operation was supposed to avoid dramatics, which is why it was done overnight."
There are few things more dramatic than fast-roping commandos on a ship in the middle of the night.
"I also believe that the Israelis did this outside of “territorial waters” because they would have been in firing range for Hamas rockets had they allowed the boats to come that close."
Tell that to anyone in the israeli military and they would laugh in your face.
"People seem to want to ignore all of the details of this story in favor of a simple narrative, but the story is not so complicated. The Marmara was a big ship with 600 people on it. The other ships had no more than a few dozen. Israel would have disabled it in other ways if it could."
There were other ways, they chose the most dramatic one. As for sinking the Mavi Marmara, I'm sure that many in Israel including decision makers would find that appropriate, thankfully they're smart enough to realise that by doing something this stupid and atrocious they would also be committing PR seppuku.
Hezbollah obtains the vast majority of it's weapons through the Lebanese-Syrian border. So yes, international monitoring of the Gaza port is much simpler.
An interesting quote from a recent Haaretz op-ed
Recently an intelligence official actually called the absence of Palestinian terror a “propaganda problem”
link to haaretz.com
So, decentjew, in light of this, what exactly do you think that massacring Israeli civilians will accomplish for the Palestinian cause?
Oh come on Shingo you remind me of one of those people "deconstructing" "Pallywood" videos. The video is real enough. Anyway all this video does is it demonstrates what incompetent nitwits these supposed "elite" commandos are. NATO and EUNAVFOR(European Union Naval Force Somalia) armed boardings manage to free ships and their crews captured by Somali pirates armed with automatic weapons and RPGs often without killing a single pirate.
Shayetet 13 self defense class
link to youtube.com
Have you thought that maybe these people believed the commandos wanted to harm them, and thus reacted violently?
Yeah this is definitely garbage
Here is a collection of all the knives they've found. Certainly NOT enough for 75% of the passengers.
link to idfspokesperson.files.wordpress.com
Thank for the answer. You're perfectly right, it's absurd to argue that this raid was legal under international law when the blockade itself isn't.
link to informationdissemination.net
"The truly scary part is that under international laws governing maritime blockades, Israel could have outright sank the ship instead of board it as an alternative enforcement of the maritime blockade, and Israel still been within their rights under international law. Such an action could have led to war with Turkey, but even if the ship would have been sunk, Turkey would still be on the wrong end of international law in this situation. Turkey will likely find plenty of populist political support in NATO countries over these events, but if they attempt to escalate they may find that support is fleeting among their NATO allies."
Is this true? If it is, then international law is seriously fucked up in this matter.
A HZ officer giving an interview on Israeli TV ROFTLMAO! Yeah sure we believe that!
Anyway, these hotheads shouldn't have beaten the Israeli naval commando wuses. The msm will keep plastering the idf's propaganda footage and unfortunately this will convince a lot of people that the killings were perfectly justified.
That knife is real, don't know if it was actually used though..
link to idfspokesperson.files.wordpress.com
It might just come to that!
UN Security Council members urge Israel to lift Gaza siege
link to haaretz.com
Celebrating most likely.
"100k troops and 1000 tanks? is that nothing?"
Yes, that's nothing. According to the the 3:1 "rule" of combat, in order for an an attacker to win the battle his forces should be at least three times the forces of the defender. Of course that assumes an equal degree of competency between the two forces which clearly wasn't the case.
Who the hell are you trying to fool really?
Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany
Implementation
Despite the protests, the agreement was signed in September of that year, and West Germany paid Israel a sum of 3 billion marks over the next fourteen years; 450 million marks were paid to the World Jewish Congress. The payments were made to the State of Israel as the heir to those victims who had no surviving family. The money was invested in the country's infrastructure and played an important role in establishing the economy of the new state. The reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956.