I was at an event when Norman Finkelstein was disrupted by one and then another individual. It was all very peaceful and the disrupters were not attacked by the audience. When the first disruption happened Mr. Finkelstein took a very pragmatic approach and asked the audience whether or not the disrupter should leave and the majority in the audience indicated their wish that the disrupter leave. The disrupter left without incident.
longliveisrael
so jews can rest assured knowing that whatever outrages they commit they pale in comparision to what the christians and the muslims have done?
Your arguments are like a soviet state commissar, "Why do you keep criticizing our glorious state when you have not said one word about those rotten capitalist dogs"
eee,
the Palmer Commission report is a joke and is not even an official report since both the Israeli and Turkish representatives have rejected it. There have been other views on the Gaza blockade (the entire shebang not just the naval one). The only people howling at the moon are you and your fellow apologists.
The range of possible debate in "respectable circles" is wider outside the US than inside it. In fact to paraphrase Chomsky it takes extraordinary discipline to go around saying that the US is a beacon to the world and the US is the best country to live in the world. Europeans don't go around saying this stuff.
Annie, great commentary, which explains my own political stance as an anarchist. As an anarchist I don't owe allegiance to any state, but first and foremost to my own conscience. I am citizen of 3 countries, the US, Canada, and Italy and I assert the rights of citizenship of all 3 countries, and yes I do I have some obligations to all three countries, but there will be instances where the obligation to my conscience supercedes the obligation to a country.
This is such an amazing blog, where one wrestles with the real meat of moral questions.
When OOT said s/he never mixed politics and sport, s/he was being a little disingenuous. The fact that women are playing in a game organized into teams representing national states is highly political.
Hi Philip,
don't mean to kill your buzz here, but Obama's use of the word "love" here reminds me so much of Ivan Illich's thoughts about plastic words.
I'm not talking about people who disagree with me, I'm talking about kids fresh out of high school who may or may not disagree with me.
I have not asked for an extra vote.
I'm sorry I'm such a klutz at explaining myself. While I would not agree with any "official" intervention, I see nothing wrong with informed individuals intervening much like the participants of the Abraham Lincoln brigade in the Spanish Civil War.
Ivan Avery Frey
When I was taking my philosophy class, Bush invaded Iraq. I opposed that war to the core of every bone in body. The peace movement was PROVEN RIGHT by the subsequent history, but being right is not enough. One still has to conform in the words of Noam Chomsky to the prevailing ideology of the time.
Ok, sorry, I didn't know where I was going with this. I am opposed to military intervention because I don't think our soldiers (even though all US soldiers have joined voluntarily) have made an INFORMED choice. What right do I have to order (if I were President, "God" help us all) these soldiers to defend the civilian population of another country.
Maybe there is a moral imperative for me (me alone and only I can make this decision) to run to Libya and help overthrow this mad dog (didn't Reagan call him this?) One slight problem, I don't speak Libyan (or is it arabic?), so my death will be possibly a rather banal one of being mistaken for one of Gadhafi's mercernaries.
Hophmi: Your question has no bearing on the Phil's posting. Phil's posting does not say that Al-Qaeda attacks US troops in Afghanistan because of Israel. This style of arguing is absolutely dishonest.
hophmi: even if you believe that there was no palestinian nationality separate from a pan-Arab one before the establishment of the state of Israel, the shared experience of over 40 years of occupation has created one.
I know Avi Lewis and I believe he has already made up his mind, but don't forget he is a reporter, so he is obligated to present both sides of an issue to allow us to make up our own minds. We are not children that need our news fed pablum style like they do over at Fox.
hayate: For the record I am an anarchist, or fellow derivative traveller as Chomsky would say. I don't believe in Christian, Islamic or Jewish states.
Before one suspects a tragic suicide as being a murder, I believe one should have evidence. This is what Noam Chomsky would do. His book on Kennedy is excellent! "Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and U.S. Political Culture"
His comments on the Kennedy assassination are especially apropos to this discussion.
Terrorist and terrorism is a much abused term. I avoid using it period. The US's own definition of terrorism is a political one. They use the term "non-state actors" to let themselves off the hook.
Alan Dershowitz's reputation has been damaged by his exposure as a liar:
Exhange of letters regarding Mr Dershowitz's defamation of Israel Shahak and Noam Chomsky's defense of Israel Shahak in the Boston Globe back in 1973:
link to chomsky.info
@Terryscott Norman Finkelstein is not opposed to all boycotts since he reposted this letter on his web site: link to normanfinkelstein.com
There are a times when I will disagree with Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, but they will never be boobs. They are simply outstanding scholars.
Whaaaaaat? It is Israel with it's nukes that's set off the nuke bomb race.
I was at an event when Norman Finkelstein was disrupted by one and then another individual. It was all very peaceful and the disrupters were not attacked by the audience. When the first disruption happened Mr. Finkelstein took a very pragmatic approach and asked the audience whether or not the disrupter should leave and the majority in the audience indicated their wish that the disrupter leave. The disrupter left without incident.
Chomsky is not a one note Johnny.
He takes his responsibilities as an intellectual very seriously.
Ivan.
"Seriously you are going to lose your freedoms, if you don't wake up".
Lady, Obama has already signed the NDAA, so technically I've already lost them.
longliveisrael
so jews can rest assured knowing that whatever outrages they commit they pale in comparision to what the christians and the muslims have done?
Your arguments are like a soviet state commissar, "Why do you keep criticizing our glorious state when you have not said one word about those rotten capitalist dogs"
eee,
the Palmer Commission report is a joke and is not even an official report since both the Israeli and Turkish representatives have rejected it. There have been other views on the Gaza blockade (the entire shebang not just the naval one). The only people howling at the moon are you and your fellow apologists.
And the corporations loved him for it.
The range of possible debate in "respectable circles" is wider outside the US than inside it. In fact to paraphrase Chomsky it takes extraordinary discipline to go around saying that the US is a beacon to the world and the US is the best country to live in the world. Europeans don't go around saying this stuff.
The Quartet is a joke.
Annie, great commentary, which explains my own political stance as an anarchist. As an anarchist I don't owe allegiance to any state, but first and foremost to my own conscience. I am citizen of 3 countries, the US, Canada, and Italy and I assert the rights of citizenship of all 3 countries, and yes I do I have some obligations to all three countries, but there will be instances where the obligation to my conscience supercedes the obligation to a country.
This is such an amazing blog, where one wrestles with the real meat of moral questions.
When OOT said s/he never mixed politics and sport, s/he was being a little disingenuous. The fact that women are playing in a game organized into teams representing national states is highly political.
And Hope Solo is cooler.
Hi Philip,
don't mean to kill your buzz here, but Obama's use of the word "love" here reminds me so much of Ivan Illich's thoughts about plastic words.
I'm not talking about people who disagree with me, I'm talking about kids fresh out of high school who may or may not disagree with me.
I have not asked for an extra vote.
I'm sorry I'm such a klutz at explaining myself. While I would not agree with any "official" intervention, I see nothing wrong with informed individuals intervening much like the participants of the Abraham Lincoln brigade in the Spanish Civil War.
Ivan Avery Frey
When I was taking my philosophy class, Bush invaded Iraq. I opposed that war to the core of every bone in body. The peace movement was PROVEN RIGHT by the subsequent history, but being right is not enough. One still has to conform in the words of Noam Chomsky to the prevailing ideology of the time.
Ok, sorry, I didn't know where I was going with this. I am opposed to military intervention because I don't think our soldiers (even though all US soldiers have joined voluntarily) have made an INFORMED choice. What right do I have to order (if I were President, "God" help us all) these soldiers to defend the civilian population of another country.
Maybe there is a moral imperative for me (me alone and only I can make this decision) to run to Libya and help overthrow this mad dog (didn't Reagan call him this?) One slight problem, I don't speak Libyan (or is it arabic?), so my death will be possibly a rather banal one of being mistaken for one of Gadhafi's mercernaries.
Hophmi: Your question has no bearing on the Phil's posting. Phil's posting does not say that Al-Qaeda attacks US troops in Afghanistan because of Israel. This style of arguing is absolutely dishonest.
hophmi: even if you believe that there was no palestinian nationality separate from a pan-Arab one before the establishment of the state of Israel, the shared experience of over 40 years of occupation has created one.
I know Avi Lewis and I believe he has already made up his mind, but don't forget he is a reporter, so he is obligated to present both sides of an issue to allow us to make up our own minds. We are not children that need our news fed pablum style like they do over at Fox.
Ivan.
Have you read Charles Glass's piece on this? It's a hoot:
link to takimag.com
Lynndie England wasn't a Gitmo guard. She was a guard at Abu Graib prison in Baghdad:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Apropos to this check out the article, Chomsky's inner conservative:
link to takimag.com
Citizen: thank you for your link.
Ivan.
hayate: For the record I am an anarchist, or fellow derivative traveller as Chomsky would say. I don't believe in Christian, Islamic or Jewish states.
Before one suspects a tragic suicide as being a murder, I believe one should have evidence. This is what Noam Chomsky would do. His book on Kennedy is excellent! "Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War, and U.S. Political Culture"
His comments on the Kennedy assassination are especially apropos to this discussion.
But the diaries weren't destroyed and plus he was not speaking out at the time.
and b) if you want to warn others you can't disguise your murder as a suicide.
hayate: but there's no motive.
James: The French and the Germans after WWII?
Tzipi's parents were part of the Irgun. Lehi is Stern.
Siegel complains about an interview from hell that he had with Chomsky.
Why doesn't he publish it?
Terrorist and terrorism is a much abused term. I avoid using it period. The US's own definition of terrorism is a political one. They use the term "non-state actors" to let themselves off the hook.
Take care, Ivan.