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  • Gilad Atzmon’s attack against me – the 'merchant of JVP'
    • Sands,

      Looks like you again forgot to define "antisemitic".
      If it is some group discrimination bound to someone's characteristics at birth (like "Jewish" ancestry) then it's pure and simple racism and doesn't deserve a propagandistic separate name.

      If it is not directly tied to a birth characteristic, for example the irrational belief of some religious persons, then any and all discrimination may be perfectly kosher.

      So, either you define precisely first or you are just talking nonsense.

      Now, Atzmon is, as also indicated by his name, of Jewish ancestry; he has never shown any open enmity to anyone for the sole fact of having been born with such ancestors.

      Besides, he also is born as an illegal alien in occupied Palestine and has served in its criminal military. He has not denied or attacked his biologic origin.

      So there is no racism here.

      All the rest is a matter of legitimate discussion. For example, I can repeat that the Jewish religion is a disgusting stone-age relic dumbing down all followers of the three big monotheistic religions, and that people who call themselves "Jewish" in the absence of religion and the total absence of a common culture, mother tongue and territory are just racist. Is discussing fact antisemitic?

      Let me see, why would someone publish a dozen posts with the sole aim of attacking a guy who is discussing religion, cultural practices and such --all obviously a matter of choice and all open to discussion? Why would you try everything for character assassination without once bringing concrete examples and of the accusations?

    • Falic,

      Thank you for the obvious common sense of your interpretation of Atzmon.
      Allow me a single correction, about your "Atzmon is quite clear that he has no problem with Judaism qua religion". In fact, he has the same problem with it as religion that you, me and some others also have, and he just can't afford the luxury of not exposing the nonsense.

  • New York rabbi links Jewish Voice for Peace to Osama bin Laden and Assad
    • Ossinev,

      In the area of the US he lives in, he is already "just yet another wailing Rabbid Zio freak amongst thousands."

    • Hey Grover,

      Any "local" or national "Jewish community" can paint itself yellow, climb a tree or jump in the lake as they don't count. Repeat: that is some 2-3% of the population and there is no percentage in wasting anyone's efforts on it. Besides, the majority seem to be really as you describe them: cavemen.

  • Students sue Fordham over justice for Palestine club rejection
    • Fordham receives federal money. More than a dollar. Also state money.
      That always and necessarily comes with free speech and non-discrimination obligations.

  • The agony of J Street
  • Mass Dems move to kill anti-settlement resolution, amid fears of BDS and 'exodus from party'
    • Kathleen,

      How generous we are with the Palestinians' rights. Let's see first if the general population of Palestinians agrees to give a vote to colonial invaders. Or a right to be there.

    • Canning,

      I don't think they want it endless. Thousand years should be OK for liberal Zionists.

  • Why I'm keeping my child home from school in Israel on Holocaust Day
    • See, Reb Feldman, that's why you are so totally in another world: you read in "modern" Hebrew, and you read propaganda.

      Kastner remains the prime suspect as the snitch.

    • Kaisa,

      Didn't Hitler also have a Jewish grandmother?? I think I was told so

      Goddam Jewish nationalists, they won't leave alone any celebrity without finding some Jewish angle --as the other guy said, any publicity is good publicity...

    • Catalan,

      Talking through his hat as usual:

      It’s not about genes either, it’s more about the shared heritage, the weird humor

      Really? Any "shared heritage" in common with the Lehlí? Pan-Jewish? I don't think so. The Lehlí were as close as Bessarabia but still they wouldn't get to marry the girls. My auntie was almost excommunicated for going with a Lehlí. But you're too young and too Ziobred to know.

      As for the humor, if you think there is a monopoly on it, you're all wet.

      Beside, you gotta work on your vocabulary. "Shared heritage" is not only not the case, it also denotes, by definition, a genetic/congenital bond.

      As for the Zuñi tribes, I just don't remember them invading and genociding the Mexicans or the Gringos. It's rather the other way around.

    • Fredman,

      Learn to spell sometime. Szenes. It's Hungarian.

      Anyway, no there was no direct evidence. The mother's evidence was damning in that it established that Kastner had avoided helping her daughter and the other British personnel, and Kastner was and still seems to be the prime suspect as snitch.

    • Kaisa,

      If you stop trying, it would mean abandoning there where it is hurting most.

      Sorry for butting in, anyway. Fact is, for anyone who can call himself "Jewish" even though without believing and practicing the religion, it is obviously not a religion. It is a tribe. Euphemism for racism pure and simple. The tribal stone-age form of racism.

      Conversions are just a totally negligible factor, not accepted by a lot of the religious. Also, converts are not regarded as "Jewish" by a majority of the so-called Jews, because belonging to the tribe does not require religion but only blood bonds. As proved by the single fact of identifying oneself as "Jewish" when one is an atheist or sumpin' --like the founding fathers of Zionism.

      The official criterion for a long time has been that the mother must be Jewish (as no one will ever respond for said lady's mores.) The criterion for admission is not very different now, only that the Zionists have adopted more or less the same criteria first promulgated by Rosenberg and Hitler, admitting practically anyone with "Jewish" blood. Hence the Russian girls with one great-grandpa.

    • Szenes' own mother presented her testimony at the trial, Fredman. You should read more.

    • Mayhem,

      A "Jewish" state on other people's land is by definition marked for destruction. Duh.

    • Kaisa,

      The Jewish religion was explicitly reserved to a tribal confederacy of nomadic shepherds. Even a quick read of the Old Testament shows you that their tribal god forbad them the worship of the gods of neighboring tribes, promising in exchange the land, the herds and the women of these neighbors, marked for genocide. You had to be formally adopted by the tribes --couldn't just choose to join.

      When Turco-Slavic, Berber, Abyssinian etc. populations converted massively to Judaism there was no central religious office to regulate conversions. Now, though, conversions are closed and there is a central religious control set up by these converted populations that only admits occasional conversions of brides, Russian colonial settlers and the like. The Palestinians, ie the only population certain to contain direct descendants of the original Jewish tribes, are rejected by the Turco-Slavic converts for not being born to a Jewish woman.

    • the “purer racial genes”, the sicker are the descendants..

      Quote of the month, Kasia.

    • What the heck is "I." doing in occupied Palestine, and how much sanity is there in dragging or having a little child there?

      Once there, what does she imagine will be done to children by the Zionists if not fulltime brainwashing?

  • Basil al-Araj, now a martyr, unites Palestinian youth in rejection of traditional politics
    • Why are we not getting clear talk here?

      Al Araj was a resistant murdered by the US-Zionist puppets working as Zionist police of the Palestinians, doing business as PA.

      I suppose the author could not say it even if she wanted to. Not so for us, away from the region.

  • Trump and Pence had a Jewish connection before a political one -- and it's steeped in the Holocaust
    • Thank you, Eva.
      I take it then that Polish law or practice does not follow that nonsense under point 3 or the pledge, under point 4, to Zionist-dictated supranational deals.

    • Eva,

      Many thanks for providing the text.
      Point 3 is downright fraud and asset misappropriation. If Polish practice follows this principle, than the statement that "Poland has the same law for all claimants, irrespective of race or religion" is false.

    • Eva,

      Forget the request to pay international Zionists, but even paying the compensation to local Jewish organizations would be totally contrary to the principle of having the same law for all claimants irrespective of race or religion.

      What was the basis for a proposal to indemnify Jewish organizations anyway? The fact that there is a culturally distinct Ashkenaze ethnicity in Poland? Even then, how is that construed as a reason not to do the usual thing, ie use unclaimed compensation moneys for the benefit of the entire public, instead of favoring one ethnic or religious group --especially as no religion can be involved where one cannot prove the religious piety and fervor of the deceased?

      Asking because I am really curious as to how anyone justifies something like this.

  • How grassroots activists defeated anti-BDS legislation in Maryland
    • Jeff,

      Completely in affabulation now. How does a call to boycott cover ex-citizens of "Israel", or expatriate ones doing business strictly within the framework of the US in businesses without "Israel" capital? It doesn't, because boycott is not based on national origin. It only hits institutional ties to a given state.
      Get us somebody with at least minimal understanding.

    • Jeff,

      That answer (to Talkback) is enough to establish what a shrunken head your shoulders have to bear. Typical Zionist, can't see the difference between national origin and being part of, or subject of, a given state. So much for your chewing law.

      Of course: you Zionists have neither a common national origin nor any other common trait, except the fact of belonging to the illegal Zionist entity (or pretending not to be a citizen and still belonging to and working for the Zionist entity.) No wonder you don't get something that damn simple.

    • "Compelling" for whom? Not me. No legal declaration of war. No judiciary decision. Just a government preference... doesn't cut it, no reason yet to bypass the constitution. Have it out with moron lawyers.

    • Discrimination based on national origin?

      Congratulations, Ziogenius : you just argued that all US economic sanctions against Iran, Russia and any other countries are illegal.

      Interesting, though: they still used to have a couple intelligent Zionists some 10-20 years ago.

  • When it comes to Syria, our press is full of moralizing and propaganda, and short on analysis
    • Johnson,

      I have the impression that you are the one bringing confusion into the question.

      When we say, channeling Justice Jackson, that international aggression is the supreme crime, the word "supreme" is key. It's not just there as a pretty word. It marks a hierarchy, as there is a strict hierarchy of priorities in any situation. International law takes precedence over all others.

      That's also the reason for the principle that all possible consequences of an aggression, intended or not, are laid at the aggressor's door. No matter how horrible the intentions of the direct agents of some of these consequences.

      Our physical world does not admit doing one thing and its contrary at the same time, no matter how much we would like it.

  • 'Why do I not cry out for the right of return?' -- an exchange between Uri Avnery and Salman Abu Sitta
    • Talknic,

      Mountains out of molehills. The only accusation is your legitimizing the totally illegal existence of the Zionist entity in any size or location.
      As for the BDS organization, no reflection on the courage and dedication of the leaders --the fact that they are working under direct control of the occupier is just geographic and unavoidable.
      No need discussing further.

    • Bile? I do support any boycott, and I support the official BDS movement as long as it does something. Pointing out the very serious limitations and risks is not bile.

      Besides, each person goes hisher own way in matters of boycott --are you trying to hold me to the same boycott (or other action, too?) rules as the Zionist partial-only-post-67-boycotters?

    • Talknic,

      If you claim Israel should not exist at all, then you’re against the notions of BDS who base their demands on the Palestinian Declaration of Statehood (which Israel has yet to accept)

      That's absurd. Boycotting and its objectives is every individual's choice. You cannot have missed the fact that a sizable portion of the "BDS" people are Zionists intent on a) getting control of the "official" BDS movement to limit the extent of the boycott, b) saving the Zionist entity from guaranteed ruin at the hands of the frank fascists and ensuring it a soft landing with some residual legitimacy and right to remain, preferable as "2-state" (a little like you are doing with your 48 borders saw.) Also, you cannot have missed the fact that the "official" BDS movement is headquartered in Zionist-occupied Palestine, under control by the occupation military and the Zionist police of the PA collaborators. That collaborationist abomination is what you call "State of Palestine" --nice state, eh? The Zionists count on it. If you expect them to do anything to benefit Palestinian resistance (I mean resistance) you'd be too naive to cross the street on your own.

      So count on more and more unsubordinated people, who will insist in boycotting the Zionist entity as long as it is alive as such. We never needed an official BDS with headquarters under enemy occupation to boycott the Zionist entity. I have done so since 1960.

    • Talkback,

      I never questioned that there are more [...] who value recognition over self determination to make a case for Israel

      Best and pithiest wording of the problem; thank you.

    • Eljay,

      Internationally "recognized" in violation of the UN Charter and accepted procedure by colonialist powers and fellow criminals against humanity, against the express will of the Palestinians, sole owners of the sovereignty over the land.

      Also "recognized" by the PA, US+Zionist entity puppets who, since the Oslo catastrophe, have taken over the policing of the occupied population on behalf of the occupier.

      Recognize away, but state what exactly you are recognizing.

    • "Catalan"

      I am now utterly confused as to what the true borders of Israel are

      Why don't you ask the Zionists? Ask them to be precise.

    • Talknic,

      Something in all this of course has to do with you. If your philosophy of the idololatry of the fait accompli and recognized/established states had been listened to by the people, we would still have the Belgians in the Congo, the English all over the place and the Boers playing soccer with severed heads.

      What you just said, you've said it hundreds of times without ever responding to the objections to it. In fact, I believe you can't even see it as relevant at all: it's only about the negligible colonial people, something outside your world limited to treaties and formal law.

    • However, prior to Israeli statehood, it was a civil war. Pre-state Jewish terrorists occupied and dispossessed people from territories that were in the provisionally recognized state of Palestine.

      Civil war my ass. The colonial overlord, instead of truly administering its mandate per the ostentated principles of the LoN, had filled it to the brim with declaredly hostile settlers that were let loose on the only legitimate population.

      A state that didn’t exist at the time cannot possibly be held responsible for crimes committed before it existed

      Shysterly bullshit. That state is the planned result of the colonial aggression and consisted of the same actors. Where do you think you are, in some courtroom where such nonsense acrobatics may be accepted by some sold judges? Go tell this crap to the masses massacred and expelled since 1948 and let's see how convinced they are!

      It's propaganda to spout a figure as though it's evidence for Palestinians wanting to return all 6 or 7 million refugees to Israel.

      And what would be wrong with that? They are all Palestinian and it's their right to settle anywhere in Palestine if they so choose. The illegal immigrants are everywhere and the Palestinians have every right to ask them to get out.

      It is quite simply NOT what UNGA res 194 (1948) calls for

      It's nice to ask for implementation of UN resolutions and that one is better than nothing but it still isn't one the Palestinian people agreed to.

    • Hughes,

      Avnery’s main argument about himself, as he chooses not to respond to increasingly angry challenges, seems to be that there is no duty to attempt the impossible

      But there is a duty to ask for the (so-called) impossible if it is your right. It's an absolute precondition to obtaining anything.

    • Yes, Talknic, colonies have kicked out imperial invaders only because people have ignored people like you, who preach recognition and acceptance of self-declared acts of conquest by invaders.

      There have been a lot of Talknics in those times, too, talking against the "excesses" of colonialism while trying their damnedest to ensure the colonials kept a solid foothold. We know your kind.

    • John S is again surpassing himself --literally.

      He starts by invoking "the irony" (I suppose he fuzzily means some situational irony, just like any US teenager) of Uri Avnery "being considered a Zionist".

      Immediately after what he informs us that he had a life-changing experience reading that same guy --and we all know what his changed life looks like. Personal meeting and admiration by this rabid Zionist of the unfairly-considered-a-Zionist Irgun veteran.

      Oh yes, Avnery is "an example of unwavering commitment to the ideal of Israeli-Palestinian peace" without justice. Peace, and John the American invader pirate keeps is house while the owners of the place can disappear.

    • Like it or not Palestine was declared and recognized. A plebiscite can only be legally applicable to the legitimate inhabitants of territories NOT declared by Israel and not actually recognized as being Israeli, that once belonged to the provisionally recognized State of Palestine under the LoN Mandate

      Like it or not, the occupation of Kenya by the British Empire was declared and universally recognized. Any objections can only be legally applicable to the legitimate inhabitants of territories NOT declared by Her Majesty's Government and not actually recognized as being British possessions.

      Like it or not, the occupation of Europe by the IIIrd Reich was declared and recognized. All protests are only valid for territories not declared occupied by the Reich.

      Did I tell you what i think you should do with your stupid pretend-legalist BS?

    • You have no idea? Really?

      "Select few" because all Palestinians have the right to go anywhere they wish within Palestine (which, I'll remind you, is the entirety of Palestine, not what's left from the Zionist conquest.)

      In the first two years some 500,000 new Jewish arrivals from the Arab States alone PLUS hundreds of thousands of others from all around the world.

      Those are almost all illegally immigrated and and/or their presence anywhere in Palestine is illegal, so why should we be even mentioning the interlopers? They should be out (in the absence of a fully representative plebiscite, of course, an absence that you seem to recognize.)

      By limiting the right of "return" to only some Palestinians, you interfere with the most basic right of Palestinians from both sides of the so-called green line to go wherever they want in Palestine. An overwhelming majority of the invaders (ie of those that you improperly call "Jewish") have no right to be there at all.

      And it is an application of the old-fashioned right of conquest to imagine that any invader can have the right to stay.

    • Talknic,

      If I read it right, essentially it is about keeping the illegal immigration by invaders flowing, while at the same time continuing to prohibit the free circulation of Palestinians from either side of the "green line" in their own country.

      And, of course, making the right of return request sound as a tiny, cuddly one that shouldn't scare or threaten the Zionist entity --just some select few who want to come live under better material conditions (as long as they shut up): it's under the boot of the stranger anyway, on either side of the fence.

      This is supposed to be another application of the principle of the prohibition of right of conquest, I take it.

  • Check out the new Mondoweiss t-shirts
    • Annie,

      Even if it were possible, turning around 180 degrees the big ship USA against the will of its owners will take a major mobilization of the general American population.
      Not a couple liberaloids, selectively of the tribal variety.

      And no, people don't just run around trying to find the explanation to all acronyms and initialisms they happen to see. They have to know who is what and what to do. Like Boycott Israel.

    • Now you're asking, I simply can't see the point of a shirt saying something as esoteric as "Mondoweiss". One in 5,682 may associate it with something like Mondo cane or Mondo pazzo, and what connotations "Weiss" will ring a bell for I dare not imagine. Schneeweiss? Edelweiss? Weisswurst?

      As for B.D.S., it still doesn't mean much by itself. "Boycott Israel!" is (almost) clear to many. Divestment and sanctions, not so much: even if we all understood, most individuals cannot divest or sanction directly. Initialisms only work for the initiated --don't imagine so many people understand any outside their own restricted experience. The shared ones include US, USA, IOU, IRS and not many more. More legible, large characters would be easier to read, with or without drawings.

  • I am not a jew
    • John S,

      You still don't get it. Where it says,

      "the absence of prosecution and punishment for low-level actors is being twisted into a perverse interpretation: that the physical torturers and executioners and support personnel, i.e. the ridiculous fiction that the little bastards who make any war crime possible are not guilty", the last phrase means just your good self.

    • Falic,

      Your point about who gets effectively prosecuted for crimes against humanity is extremely relevant.

      In practice, only the top tier of leaders get indicted and punished (if ever), as the action is rather symbolic. I can understand that going after each participant is highly impractical. It would probably paralyze society.

      Only, the absence of prosecution and punishment for low-level actors is being twisted into a perverse interpretation: that the physical torturers and executioners and support personnel, i.e. the ridiculous fiction that the little bastards who make any war crime possible are not guilty. That absurdity must be resoundingly rejected. Thank you for contributing to that.

      Anyway, deserters who turn against the criminal camp have done as much if not more than what is necessary to remedy the situation, so they should never be included. You cannot include yourself in this.

    • Yoni,

      There is a slight distance between psychiatric resident and Psychiatry resident. We don't have the corresponding distinction about criminal lawyer. Best wishes to both of you.

    • He's not "Jewish". "Heritage and ancestry" do not transmit religion.

      Thanks for the beautiful poem.

  • Israel will celebrate 50th anniversary of '67 war in -- an illegal settlement!
    • So the area for some "kibbutz" was bought? Riiiight.
      So now we can declare all Saudi-owned high-rises in Manhattan Saudi territory, subject to Saudi law, with prohibition to any and all infidels, including US law enforcement, to enter. Under penalty of being shot, decapitated, or all the other nice things Zionists and Saudis do to their enemies.

      Wonder how much more stupid the Zionists will become, with each generation.

  • Love of Israel + Defense of Trump = Meshuggeneh
    • Mooser,

      Why "the worst"? For our tribal friends, those for whom Jewishness is hereditary, we are looking at a downpour of Nobel prizes, high IQ certificates, even all admirably positive traits. Even more so with the Zionist race --noble warriors with an inborn ability to use weapons during office hours, admirably inventive cultivators of cherry tomatoes in their spare time.

    • Just noting that I didn't say that Mr Weiss specifically kowtowed to Ms Powers. The sentence is "where were his biting criticism and his denunciations when criminals against peace and war criminals like Obama, the Empress, Power, etc. were being applauded to, kowtowed to and lionized by the same actors plus a lot of other murderous Zionists and even “Nonzionists”?"

    • Agreed with Keith, it's obvious. But there seems to be a problem with Weiss: where were his biting criticism and his denunciations when criminals against peace and war criminals like Obama, the Empress, Power, etc. were being applauded to, kowtowed to and lionized by the same actors plus a lot of other murderous Zionists and even "Nonzionists"? For example when we were raping Libya, say?

      How serious is all this?

  • Sean Spicer needs to go to a Holocaust center
  • Passover has become little more than an act of communal hypocrisy
    • John S,

      As a willing and proud accessory to tens of thousands of outright murders, you should talk.
      Also, if you don't want accidents to happen to illegal occupiers just don't move civilians to a war zone illegally. That simple.
      Also, if you want to protect yourself jump in the next plane and go back to the US. Our loss.

    • Of course Mr Jeff is a proud atheist --he considers himself Jewish as a result of his racism, being born to a "Jewish" lady --I suppose that's why several here are calling Zionism a "religion-supremacist" political movement. Oooh yes. Racism plays no role at all --we're "Jewish" after all!

  • 'This miracle, this gift, this jewel' -- Obama's ambassador to Israel declares he's a Zionist
    • Talknic,

      ".. the presence of even a single Zionist invader anywhere in Palestine cannot be condoned, or you condone it and to you it is admissible,"

      Correct and I've never condoned it. I can explain however why Israel can't be indicted for crimes committed before it existed.

      My a$$. You defend the ***unauthorized presence*** of invaders on Palestinian territory.
      Do you really want us to start believing that you are not pretending, but genuinely unable to read? "Presence". Look up the words . It's exactly what you have been advocating since you started writing here. The crimes committed before the existence of the pirate entity are not nobody's main problem.

      Answer this: Of the people who terrorized and dispossessed non-Jews prior to the recognition of the State of Israel, who of them can be prosecuted? Who of them can be tried for their crimes
      ...If the perpetrators no longer exist...

      Who gives a rat's ass who they were and what they called or still call themselves? The unauthorized presence of invaders and squatters is the problem. Current. There are millions of these perpetrators on Palestinian soil.

      Let's say there was a plebiscite, do you really think the Zionist enterprise would give a stuff?

      So, you expect the Zionists to get out by their own will, just because you plead well? Now that's totally insane. Or are you suggesting that nothing should be done because the only language they will understand is force?

      To sum up your philosophy, it is the same as that used earlier to recommend not doing anything against slavery, or against any occupation: the initial culprits are long dead, those who profit from the crime cannot be indicted, the invasion is established and recognized by all respectable colonial powers and their puppets, and and anyway the invaders won't give up when asked nicely. So you spit fire and brimstone... not against the fact of the occupation, but its "excesses".

      Looks like the exact contrary of condemning the violation of the right to self-determination.

      Also, with "Palestine has already agreed under the leadership of Arafat , to cede some 78% of their territories to Israel for Peace" you replace a representative plebiscite with the white flag of the Oslo-whipped gravedigger of the resistance, Arafat who decided to do what the US told him, come place himself under the direct control of the enemy and paralyze all resistance that meant business. Without going into discussion of this or that leader's character --how is anyone supposed to replace a representative plebiscite?

      Finally we have a full exposure of what you have been defending all the time --opposition to some excesses of the Zionists and colonial powers, condemnation of the "original sin", but full acceptance of the principle of the Zionists' criminal invasion --and opposition to the Palestinians' recovering their full rights over their own territory. We'll have to remember that.

    • Talknic

      “It’s all worthless as long as the Palestinian people, in a way that will appear to its masses as entirely just and representative and excluding the invader, has not spoken. No justice, no peace.”

      I agree. I said it 2012.

      Bullshit. "Inadmissible" means exactly inadmissible. Either it is inadmissible and the presence of even a single Zionist invader anywhere in Palestine cannot be condoned, or you condone it and to you it is admissible, There is no third way in logic.

      Repeat: logic does not allow one thing at the same time as its diametrical contrary. Like
      a) inadmissibility of colonial presence anywhere without explicit permission of the owners and
      non-a) colonial presence without explicit permission of the owners.

      “Meanwhile, you are performing Zionist propaganda by legitimizing the pirate entity. Period”
      By arguing against it. Interesting theory. I argue against it on behalf of Palestinians and Jews BTW.

      So you are not "arguing against it": apart the fact that religion plays no role here and the invaders are historically non-religious, the only "Jews" of interest here are Palestinians of Jewish ancestry as of the start of Zionist invasion. You are arguing for keeping invaders and offspring thereof in Palestine without permission from the owners.

      The establishment of the State of Israel was another in a long list of missed opportunities for peace

      It's such a peaceful thing to get invaded yet again, this time though by not only the bloody English colonizer but also the barbarians he brings to replace you on your own soil. Yeah.

      and for Jewish folk who could have taken those opportunities had they wished

      The opportunity was that of establishing a colonial government as they wished, in a place they had no right to be in, and they took it.
      Or they could have stayed in their own places in their own countries. Again, no 3rd way in logic.

      Except for long-time Palestinian Jews, who are the only "Jewish folk" of relevance when talking about Palestine, period.

    • Talkback,

      It all boils down to "money talks". If colonial governments commit and unanimously bless a crime, millions will respect it and even try to defend it. Including some of the best-intentioned.

    • I

      Talknic,
      Obviously you don't get it.

      Let me explain more clearly:
      Take all the 00:01s, the disquisitions about intra-Zionist differences among the bandits, the angels dancing on the tip of a pin, all the committees, all the collaborators, everything,
      roll them all up
      and shove them.

      It's all worthless as long as the Palestinian people, in a way that will appear to its masses as entirely just and representative and excluding the invader, has not spoken. No justice, no peace.

      Meanwhile, you are performing Zionist propaganda by legitimizing the pirate entity. Period.

    • Talkback,

      Fencing? Perish the thought. I believe their accountants booked it as a joint gift of Jehovah and Her Imperial Majesty.

    • Talknic,

      Only, you still didn’t produce that plebiscite."
      You're ridiculous. THERE ISN'T ONE! You've said as much yourself. You want me to produce something that doesn't exist?

      Halleluiah. Looks like you start getting it. Or not?

      Of course there is no such plebiscite! That's what I have been pointing out all the time.

      In its absence, Zionist invaders can only lift all occupation and constraints and ask for a proper plebiscite, where they have no voice, hoping that the result perhaps authorizes some of them to stay (perhaps after giving guarantees of loyalty as Palestinian citizens?) Or just get the hell out.

      Because, as you say so yourself,

      “The acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible” The notion of self determination was Customary International Law some years before Israel ever existed and; no such referendum has ever been conducted in any of the territories Israel has acquired by war"

      Well guess what, all the territory of that "Israel" abomination has been acquired by war. Every single f. inch. Not one inch that you can continue to see as "Israel" or whatever the fancy Zionist name.

      If we leave justice for a moment and talk real world, well a plebiscite is of course a pipe dream but still the only bloodless way out --and as such to be highly recommended.

      Considering what we have seen so far of the sense of justice of invaded and occupied populations, there are necessarily only two stable alternatives in the absence of such a plebiscite: either reinstatement of Palestine or a successful genocide of the owners, American-style or worse. A solution as in Algeria now sounds too optimistic now. As for any compromise solutions, they can't be more stable than with the current phantom "state" and its puppets. There is a reason invasion was described as "inadmissible".

    • Sure, Talknic.

      Only, you still didn't produce that plebiscite.

    • Talknic,

      It’s a universal right http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

      I believe that doesn't apply to doing things on other people's land, if you are there against the will of its owners. The universal law enforcement in these cases is the expulsion of squatters.

    • Talknic,

      the declaration was delivered by one Yasser Arafat 15th November 1988

      thereby strangling the resistance movement, badly damaged but getting new life with the intifada. Killing the popular movement in Palestine, at the bidding of the Zionist-occupied US of f. A. I suppose it sounds more serious if we say delivered at 00:01? You seem to have missed the huge catastrophe of Oslo, the complete collapse, the placing of the remaining resistance organizations under direct military control of the Zionist entity, their becoming an organ of the Zionist occupation police, etc. etc. Not a reflection on the personal courage of Arafat, who was rewarded for this surrender by getting murdered when he became a spent lemon.

      What f "state", fercrissakes? That's a Zionist occupation police totally under Zionist-US control, without any chance of an autonomous gesture. Theatrics with highfalutin words, State titles, all that is pure BS. Even the useful gestures before the UN or the ICJ once in a while, to keep some semblance of the PA being Palestinian, are pure theater calculated not to disturb the game.

      BTW You're not putting up any alternatives as to who does por[sic] should have been representing the Palestinian people.

      Once again: How about the only authorized, the Palestinian people, in a plebiscite that includes the entire Palestinian people, i.e. all descendants of Palestinians as of the year the Zionists announced their hostile takeover intention with the help of the bloody English crown? Including all the diaspora, including of course all Jewish Palestinians as of 1897. In the absence of duress, i.e. military occupation or other strong-arming.

      If it comes too late, or if it is totally impossible, of course the solution will be a huge lot of violence. There always is, when this kind of stuff gets straightened out. Unless the Zionists-US prevent it by even greater violence, ie a successful genocide.

      How many times do you need references to where I have expressed the need for Palestinian right to self determination before it sinks in?

      How can the recognition by colonial powers and their lackeys of a Zionist entity on Palestinian territory be seen as "Palestinian self-determination"? Orwell would have loved that one.

    • Talknic

      The Palestinian Declaration of statehood isn't my doing

      Of course not. It's the doing of politicians with no general mandate, no title to represent the Palestinian people other than having been co-opted by the same colonial powers that had already subverted the UN to force a decision violating the UN Charter itself. You may choose your own words to describe these traitors (and the colonial slaves that make up the great majority of the UN) but you may not pretend to ignore that there was no Palestinian mandate to do so, or to try and smuggle the Zionist invaders as bona fide Palestinians.

      I'm accepting of the Palestinian declaration of statehood 1988,

      That is not your major offense. How about the other part: You are "accepting of" the Zionist invaders' "declaration of statehood" 1948, "as are the majority of the world's states". That is all the problem. Bringing every time that majority as if it legalized the illegality and banditism of the partition is not likely to impress anyone with a brain, at any rate not as anything more than a legitimization of aggression and brute force.

    • Talknic,

      Although I don't agree with how it came into existence, I support innocent folks' right, including innocent Jews and non-Jews caught up in the Zionist project, to live in peace in a state.

      See, you continue. There is no such right unless voluntarily conceded, in the absence of duress, by the owners of the place, aka the Palestinian people.

      I would like all those nice things you say, too, but see, I am not the fully authorized representative of the Palestinian people. I am not even an individual Palestinian, not even a collaborator. So who am I to dictate to the Palestinians?

      Now, who are you to dictate to the Palestinians, owners of Palestine, and give rights to the invaders, "innocent" or not? Feeling an overload of White Man's Burden? All that equality, fraternity stuff is totally worthless if not gracefully conceded by the owners, period.

      I can see why you have such a refractory case of misunderstanding.

    • Talknic

      an illegal state exists never the less as a state

      Lame, lame.

      That's all you can say, hundreds of times. without ever answering any questions like "So f***** what? So did the Third Reich."

      "and no one except the owners of the land, not ever including any of the hostile invaders, has a say about that."

      Similar to what Balfour said in his later statements. Similar to what I've said on numerous occasions

      Is that why your output essentially consists of a defense of the existence of the Zio entity created without consulting them?
      No interest in sparring with a sophist.

    • Hughes,

      Excellent summary, thank you.

      One remark:

      I think most people who have thought about the problem would say that Israel has a right to exist as power compliant with relevant UN resolutions: that (talknic's) is the majority view, I believe, though some of us might think that it attributes too much moral authority to what is only a committee.

      Would be more complete to specify that is a committee dominated and guided totally by the colonialist powers of its time, engaging in a blatant violation of its own Charter and the most basic principles of international law as at its own time.
      This last statement is not controversial at all. So what can one conclude about that majority view?

    • ” Quote you? Read your last message”
      = no quote

      That attitude of yours, repeated, has totally erased any credibility you may have had for me.

    • Talknic,

      Your link is essentially an exposition of facts plus a summary of colonialist interpretation of rights.

      Palestine is still entirely occupied by colonial invaders with no right to be there, and no one except the owners of the land, not ever including any of the hostile invaders, has a say about that. Period. Your link does not sufficiently address that and I now regret wasting time reading irrelevant stuff.

    • Ms Cobban,

      No, the word “Israelis” is not “generally “understood to mean Jewish Israelis only.

      Well, it should be. The others are hostages, enslaved against their will. Their assent was not asked or given.

    • Israel exists as a state. Like it or not. Legally or illegally. Just or unjust. Not at my insistence. Not with my assistance.

      It continues its illegal existence with your very insistent assistance, with your hammering in the readers' mind, day in, day out the inevitability of a recognition and existence in blatant violation of the UN Charter. Quote you? Read your last message.

      Go on defending the squaring of the circle. If post-67 is illegal, pre-67 is just as illegal. If 48 is legal, what's different with 67?

    • Talknic,

      Might be best tho for Israelis to stick to living in Israel instead of illegally settling in non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war by the Jewish state since proclaiming its borders effective at 00:01 May 15th 1948.
      Wonderful.

      What part of illegally settled, illegally acquired by war, illegally proclaimed and illegally recognized "Israel" is legal, as opposed to "non-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war". You forgot to say.

      Is it not true that the Zionist Federation decided in 1897 [to] set up the Jewish COLONIAL Trust in order to specifically colonize Palestine and that they loaned money to specifically poor Jews (specifically at interest ) on condition that they put themselves on the front lines in Palestine to further the Zionist Colonization process?

      Is it not equally true that the British Empire illegally invaded Palestine with these declaredly hostile Zionist hordes in breach of its fiduciary obligations and, together with the other COLONIAL powers, illegally approved the illegal 1948 declaration of independence by these colonial invaders, violating the very UN Chart?

      Rejecting the 1965 conquest while recognizing a legitimacy to the 1947/48 one is impossible. You are attempting a squaring of the circle: no can do.

    • Jeff B,

      I can remember the first time I walked into a crappy restaurant and there was a Jewish sink (two handed cups and towels for netilat yadayim). Or having the time of the 3rd star at bus stops. Or people who have no idea its Christmas while every year my life has to revolve around this holiday I don’t celebrate (do they know its Christmas time at all — nope). And of course the immense pride in seeing a Jewish army.

      Remarkable. Already before getting to the last sentence, the author you are quoting appears to be the meanest, the most envious, the most hate-filled and obsessive ISIS member I've ever read until now. As for "the immense pride in seeing a Jewish army" it makes your skin crawl, realizing that so much baseness is coming from what is now called a natural-born killer.

      At any rate, if this person is suffering so terribly for having to live in this US den of infidels, he should be expelled PDQ to avoid him the indignity of not being able to impose his obscurantist religion on everybody.

  • The liberal double standard on boycotting North Carolina and boycotting Israel
    • Jeff,

      The American lawgiving is based on jus solis as decided by the invaders after a successful genocide.

      Your Zionist hellhole cannot yet brag about a successful genocide (not for lack of trying or lack of support by the likes of you.) Also, the owners of the place have not yet decided, by fully representative authority, whether to base citizenship on place of birth or citizenship of parents or some other thing. Or the conditions for residence.

    • The method, Sibiriak?

      Demonstrated hundreds of times by different colonial peoples, not to mention other occupied peoples. It varies enormously according to the conditions and the international constellation of forces. And varying success not to mention highly uncertain aftereffects. Surely you are pretending not to have noticed.

  • You know your country's in trouble when you're afraid to put on a bumper sticker
  • Read the full translated text of the leaked Hamas charter
    • Jewish is fundamentally a religion-based identity

      So all those atheists who consider themselves "Jewish" because they were born to a Jewish woman surely consider their respected mother's womb to be "religion".

    • Eljay

      You’d better get on the phone with the U.N. double-quick and tell them that Partition-borders Israel’s existence contravenes international law.

      No need to call them. It still does, no matter if you call. As a certain Galileo Galilei, who by the way had no powers to change the course of the planets, is supposed to have said.

    • Eljay,

      Funnier and funnier. Now "no" means exactly "yes":

      | … you agree with some other kind of state the Zionist invaders would be entitled to … ||

      No, I agree with a secular and democratic, Partition-borders Israel of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally.

      Including all invaders, without having produced a permission by the Palestinians. Just like colonial bastards of the UN did. Which means yes, you agree to "some other kind of state the Zionist invaders would be entitled to or entitled to stay in, in contravention of all international law", ie you are trying to impose Zionist invasion by the back door.

      That you, some liberaloid do-gooder from the States, agree with "secular and democratic... Israel of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally" blah blah is worth exactly zilch, nada. You still didn't bring a valid permission from the owners of the place.
      (Don't get me wrong, I personally tend to agree that your equality stuff is good stuff, but my agreement is as unauthorized by the owners as is yours.)

      What if the owners want something else for their property?

      Well, if the owners of the place want something else, then Mr. Eljay, and Messrs the other Western or Eastern do-gooders, will join the Obamas and Clintons and Bushes of this world in occupying and bombing these retrograde Ayrabs into submission, until they agree with Mr. Eljay that living with one's invader in a secular democratic equal paradise is the best of the worlds and must be obligatory for all, to the applause of some UN committee.

      Not worth talking any longer.

    • Eljay,

      Also try not to weasel away every time:

      I don’t acknowledge that Zionist are entitled to any kind of religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

      Meaning that you agree with some other kind of state the Zionist invaders would be entitled to or entitled to stay in, in contravention of all international law.

      By the way, that "religion-supremacist" expression is pure BS --even if some Zionists are religious nowadays, Zionism is not religious but purely racial and racist.

    • Eljay,

      Now you are adventuring into total absence of logic.
      Anti-Zionism by definition means advocating the destruction of the Zionist entity. No amount of pill-pulling will change that in what is street logic based on simple syllogisms.

      Also, in the pedestrian, linear logic which is the only one I understand, insistently trying to justify an initial Zionist conquest means helping Zionism. No amount of argument around that can make me change my mind. But enough already. I suppose we now have the answers to the questions I asked.

    • Mooser,

      Look, why not let the Zionists tell me how it’s “too late to bargain from that position”. That’s their job. Don’t do it for them.

      I don't pay much attention to labels because what defines one is his specific position on determined topics. If one is doing X's job --no, no, sorry, make that Z. Restart: if one is doing Z's job, why, he is working for Z, no matter what he calls himself.

      Especially when most of one's output consists of repeating the same point. Already in 37 a David Gruen, aka Ben Something, was saying it was too late for that same discussion.

    • Eljay,

      That you pretend not to get the first thing about the concept of compromise versus abandonment of inalienable rights is a blatant fact --in your own rating. Not to be compared with your revolting smear.

      Anyway, it would be very interesting to see you answer those simple yes/no questions, as you have never been clear.

      As for my comprehension skills, they tell me that an insistent request by some American liberals, for Palestinian resistance to give away its people's essential inalienable rights to illegal intruders, goes in the category "with friends like these who needs enemies?"

    • Eljay,

      Hamas’ acceptance of a two-state solution means nothing if its clearly-stated ultimate goal is to reclaim all of geographic Palestine.

      You confirm what I was just saying, viz.

      you still have trouble understanding the difference between a forced compromise and a basic, inalienable right

      worse, in fact: you just seem to be totally alien to a very elementary concept. I do not believe that comedy, by the way, and start to strongly suspect that it's serving a propaganda goal.

      Your totally ridiculous smear, by the way:

      It is in the same way that your primary goal is the definitive mass slaughter of every Jew in Palestine.

      , is not compatible with anything I have ever written here. I have underlined that the Zionist invaders have no right to be in Palestine without a permission by the owners of the land, i.e. the Palestinian people as of the date of declaration of hostile takeover intent by the Zionist. Period. No mass slaughter or anything regarding the Jewish religion was recommended, suggested or proposed. In fact, the only thing proposed is a valid plebiscite of the Palestinian people. Of course, suicidal war and violence may achieve their end, but that's another question.

      Let's hear it clearly, now. Does Eljay propose that the Zionist invaders of Palestine (DBA "Israel" now) have a right to be on Palestinian "mandate" territory at all without a fully representative authorization of the Palestinian people? (I didn't say authorization by colonial powers or their politician puppets.) Yes, no, or maybe.

      Does Eljay consider that the Zionist propaganda slogan about mass slaughter of the Jews if the Palestinian people are free to decide is true? Yes, no or maybe.

    • Eljay,

      I’d buy the sincerity of Hamas’ acceptance of a two-state solution if it weren’t for the massive disclaimer stating that their acceptance doesn’t preclude them from reclaiming all of geographic Palestine.

      Looks like you still have trouble understanding the difference between a forced compromise and a basic, inalienable right.

      It even exists in daily, individual-level law: agreeing to a deal with an armed squatter when there's no recourse to law enforcement does not mean you give up forever your right to your family house.

      Is the definitive, irreversible conquest of Palestine by the Ashkenazi crusaders your primary goal?

  • 'I came to explore the wreck of Zionism': A report from the 2017 JVP meeting
    • Stephen,

      In the absence of the Nazi racist dictatorship, repatriation is an eminently appropriate solution for all refugees. It's not as if having the same rights as everybody else, in one's own country, is a bed of roses, of course, especially in Eastern Europe. But how is it that what was good enough for other Poles, Czechs, Germans, etc. was not good enough for the Jewish ones? The fact that the Americans and the other colonial powers used the DP camps for anticommunist propaganda and made a big fuss to avoid repatriating many thousands people is not reason enough for accepting the Zionist scam, paid with the blood of Palestinians, as "necessary". As if Poland was not the graveyard of millions of non-Jewish Poles' family graveyard, too, in 1945. This exceptionalism is more than ridiculous and an insult to logic.

    • Pabelmont, I would add that Nazism was stamped to the ground in 1945. Much more was done then to eradicate fascist aggression than is done today (we reward richly all major war criminals and criminals against peace nowadays.)

      The pirate Zionist entity attacked in 1947 and declared itself a state in 1948. So how in hell or heaven should "Israel" be "necessary"?

      It's not a question of size. The very presence of any Zionists there in 1945 after the defeat of Nazi Germany, except for legitimate war refugees waiting to be repatriated, remains illegal.

    • Talking about a wreck waaay before it's destroyed would have been seen as pep talk in the chickens-before-hatching category if it were the only problem. This declaration comes before her organization has clearly declared war to Zionism. It has not made amends for its despicable witchhunt against Weir, Berlin, Atzmon and other steadfast enemies of Zionism.

  • New book by Larry Derfner, the American-turned-Israeli journalist, crushes liberal Zionism
    • Talkback,

      Nazi minus the Lebensraum policy

      Priceless. Quote of the year.

      Except, of course, that the Lebensraum in this case is 100%.

    • Watan,

      There is a lot to discuss in what you said --I was just pointing out the fact that Ed Koch and the Zio spokesman Jeff B clearly say, making a good case, that this varmint is military auxiliary personnel, and who am I to contradict such experts?

      Also, as you so nicely say, settler colonialism is a war crime and there is a very good reason these people are not protected under Geneva. So the finer distinctions are moot.

    • Maghlawatan,

      Are you following the discussion or some other thought of yours?
      Jeff has confirmed, citing a well-informed article by Ed Koch, that post-1967 ununiformed/paramilitary invaders, aka "settlers", were placed there, in what constitutes a war crime, to act as support personnel to the military invaders. The thinking behind their presence, as exposed by Koch, was inaugurated by the Nazi civilian settlements in Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. These "settlers" are "logistics" personnel according to JeffB. I tend to agree. If a particular one is armed or not on a given day doesn't make any difference.

      A single conclusion forces itself: These guys. Are. Not. Civilians. They are military support personnel, i.e. part of the occupation army. No discussion possible. Dragging there the occasional true civilian, e.g. a minor or a non-combatant civilian, is a major war crime committed by the respective settler who should be held accountable for it, just as much as the Zionist entity government.

    • Marnie,

      That is Palestine all right and I am sure you'll be asking yourself where you get the right to be there.

      As I already wrote but the dog seems to have eaten it.

    • Thanks for confirming that post-67 settlers cannot be considered civilians.

    • Marnie,

      Thank you for your response. You're right, Derfner is effectively a Zionism-firster.

      My remark, though, also extends to "dissidents" who continue to squat any part of Palestine as members of the Herrenvolk. Staying seems to only legitimize the invasion.

    • Your hero is an American invader staying there against the express will of the invaded owners of the place.

    • Exactly, Sibiriak and Suarez.

      Not to forget that this guy is, according to the title, an " American-turned-Israeli journalist" --by dint of his racial identification with the invading tribe, an illegal resident as part of the Herrenvolk. And continuing. How is that not Zionist?

      Who the hell cares if his Zionism is liberal or fanatical? It is just as illegal, invading and genocidal. "Good intentions"? Like continuing the theft and murder --but perhaps giving a little bit more of a sugar to the home slaves inside the green line, like the French Socialists in Vietnam?

  • The Jewish revolution
    • Wow, Mooser. Congratulations for your research. So it's confirmed that Jeff's concept of religion is exactly the one adopted by a certain self-appointed Central European Aryan tribe in the thirties.

    • Bingo, Pabelmont.

      Especially seeing that even if there were any stirrings among the said "Jewish communities" after a hundred plus years of noisy Zionism plus 70 years of mass-murdering Zionism --I still don't see a single Antizionist leaf quivering; we won't see any for another how many years?-- the grand total of the whole tribe is still a puny 2-3%. No way that's the one that's gonna turn the US ship around. We need a general American explosion of wrath for that. In voting, it's one-dollar-one-vote where the Zionists win every time, but when it comes to mass movements dollars only count for "color revolutions", not real movements.

    • Great! How do we know we're in the States?
      Looks like as if a few Zionist criminals like Jeff have taken over the discussion section of Mondoweiss, as if there weren't enough Zio outlets elsewhere; they have the few thinking people here trying to keep up writing totally unnecessary rebuttals to moronic, pretzeltwisted heckling.

    • Very accurate diagnosis, Doctor Mooser. Impressive.

      You seem to manage in the US, “JeffB”. Would you stop being Jewish if there was no Israel?

      Of course he would lose that! The American Zionist's wholly pseudo-racial fake identity is only supported by the existence of an illegitimate pirate state over there on the Palestinians' territory. He has no religion, his parents consciously destroyed his hereditary culture and language; the American Zionist was taught to hate and reject everything that makes up our common American identity. He feels he only has a place in this world as a propaganda agent, if not worse, of the Zionist pirate state.

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