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I'm a happily-married, vegetarian and atheist Canadian with two wonderful cats. :-)

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  • The Netanyahu Guide to Middle East Peace
  • 'Freedom Waves to Gaza' flotilla leaves Turkey headed to Gaza; Organizers: 'It is time to lift the siege of Gaza which deprives 1.6 million civilians of their rights to travel, work, study, develop their economy and be free.'
    • >> ... I don’t take it upon myself to keep track of every stupid remark made at this blog.


      >> But anyway, if there is ever a serious movement to ban Hebrew in the name of Palestinian rights, you can count on me to denounce it ...


    • >> Ha, you joke, but I fully expect eee to denounce everyone at this blog as supporters of geological anti-semitism.

      Yes, I do joke. And I, too, wouldn't put it past eee to conclude that geological events can be "anti-Semitic". After all, he uses "common sense".

      (I can't wait for him to declare war on plate tectonics because, y'know, if geology tries to kill him, he will do his best to kill it first.)

    • >> a Jewish state is racist

      I agree, although I prefer the term "religion-supremacist".

      >> Israel is subducted into some future oceanic trench.

      Aha!! Clearly you want nothing more than to see Israel "wiped of the map"! ;-)

  • Halper: Israel may attack Iran so that we won't hear the word 'Palestinian' for another 5 years
    • The utter hypocrisy and immorality of Western leaders (and a good many Western citizens) disgusts me. We wax eloquent about peace, justice and the right of self-defence...and then deny it to others as we viciously attack, bombard, destroy and kill.

      So much for "live #AND# let live!"

    • >> The most despicable aspect of their warmongering is that it is very likely that they will sacrifice US and Iranian citizens, but no Israelis ...

      Israel may not send Israelis off to die, but if Israel attacks Iran, you can be certain that Israelis will die. All because Zio-supremacists can't get past their sense of superiority, greed, entitlement and (self-)righteousness.

    • "Ils sont fous, ces Israéliens!" (w/ apologies to Goscinny & Uderzo)

      Israel Considers Pre-Emptive Attack On Iran

  • 'You lost' -- reporters at State say UNESCO vote isolates U.S. from world opinion (and possibly from intellectual property enforcement)
    • >> Israel says it will speed up Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem – and temporarily freeze the transfer of funds to the Palestinian Authority.

      RW had better get on the phone with Bibi pronto! and tell him that now's the time to "make 'better wheels'" and to "live #AND# let live!"

      Then again, it's probably all Hamas' fault and the ONLY THING Israel can do is "hunker down" and play (aggressor-)victim.

  • Goldstone sugarcoats persecution to try to save Israel
    • >> Those interested in learning more about the techniques of hasbara can read here–
      >> “My Father Once Heard MLK Denounce Israel”

      Reminds me of this:
      >> RW: What did Hamas communicate to Israel by escalating shelling? That it intended war. That, combined with published statements* by Hamas militia that stated they “desired” that Israel invade so that they could wipe the streets with Israeli blood.

      (where "published" = "non-existent")

    • >> ... why would a Jew think it has the moral standing to comment ...

      Not "it". He, or he/she.

      >> ... there are like 5 articles commenting on Goldstone’s flip-flop, but not one discussing the obvious:
      >> 1. Goldstone flip-flopped because he’s Jewish
      >> 2. Why was a Jew chosen in the first place?

      I believe both points have been amply addressed:
      1. Goldstone flip-flopped because he was pressured to side w/ tribe instead of upholding facts / morality / justice. (If you have evidence that he wasn't pressured - that, in fact, he chose to flip-flop simply because he's Jewish - please feel free to present it.)
      2. At a minimum, for reasons of politics and credibility.

  • Caption contest
  • South Africans think Israel is practicing apartheid
  • Goldstone contra Goldstone
    • 1. A harms B.
      - This is immoral, unjust and unacceptable.
      - A must be held accountable.
      2. As a result of being harmed by A, B harms C.
      - This is immoral, unjust and unacceptable.
      - B must be held accountable.

      So straightforward, and yet the Zio-supremacist mind - even the "humanist" one - is unable to grasp this.

      >> Their experience does NOT justify current wrongs to Palestinians.

      Their experience does not justify ANY wrongs - past, present or future - to Palestinians.

    • >> After knowing my mother-in-law, I cannot now call the immigration to Israel, settlement in Israel an expropriation, and establishment of Israel as a state as an unnecessary injustice in 1948.

      Zio-supremacist hypocrisy and immorality in a nutshell: A commits grave injustices against B, therefore B is entitled to commit grave injustices against C...if and only if B represents Jews.


    • >> But, second hand was a bit more real. It was NOT the rosy, not sanitized. But, it was also not the rhetorical, the anti-sanitized.

      But, ultimately, it was also entirely irrelevant to RW because i) he wasn't even born when the Holocaust happened and ii) "the PRESENT is what matters!"

  • 80 year old Palestinian woman stoned by settlers
    • >> This proves that there is no god.

      Since gawd hasn't been proven to exist in the first place, there's no need to disprove it. That human nature contains much ugliness is, sadly, proven true far too often.

      >> Settlers stone elderly Palestinian lady

      Looks like someone forgot to forward a copy of RW's "live #AND# let live!" memo to these Israeli terrorists.

  • Could Goldstone's logic in defense of Israel have saved apartheid in South Africa?
    • >> i’m not following your argument eee.

      He appears to be suggesting that Palestinians should feel fortunate and grateful that they're actually still around to suffer at the hands of the oppressive Israeli regime.

    • >> Occupation is occupation, it is not apartheid.

      And resistance to occupation is resistance to occupation, it is not terrorism. (Zio-supremacists can't comprehend this because they employ "common sense", which bears no resemblance to its eponym.)

  • The law and practice of apartheid in South Africa and Palestine
    • >> Shmuel November 1, 2011 at 1:56 pm

      My point - which, evidently, was poorly made :-) - was that:
      - An institutionalized regime of systematic oppression by Israel exists and Israel's ON-GOING actions indicate an intent to maintain it.
      - Israel hasn't actually declared its intent to maintain its institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and, so, Goldstone fraudulently uses this lack of declared intent to conclude that the institutionalized regime of systematic oppression ("apartheid") doesn't exist.

      Goldstone is being dishonest. He's playing games.

    • >> Donald November 1, 2011 at 12:17 pm

      Nicely put.

    • >> The situation in the West Bank is more complex. But here too there is no intent to maintain “an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group.” This is a critical distinction, even if Israel acts oppressively toward Palestinians there.

      Ah, so, rape isn't rape when there is no intent to maintain "a regime of sexual violence and physical domination of the female by the male." This is a critical distinction, even if the rapist is currently sexually abusing and physically oppressing the victim.


  • UNESCO votes to admit Palestine as a full member
    • >> Though I would prefer a “Thanks, Hostage” key, without the superfluous apostrophe.

      Your such a stickler for spelling and grammer. I bet you're even gonna critisize me also. The thing is, is that your prolly right to do so. :-)

    • >> Its bad news if the Palestinians close doors that they had opened in the form of the Olmert/Abbas discussions, that if closed would contribute to Israel hunkering down with no other option but to.

      Ah, the sweet smell of hypocrisy. When Israel closes doors, the Palestinians are expected to "make 'better wheels'" and to negotiate with Israel. When the shoe is on the other foot, Israel is not required to "make 'better wheels'" or to negotiate with the Palestinians. Instead, it is permitted to hunker down and play victim. Again.

      Meanwhile, the poor victim's ON-GOING campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder continues unabated.

  • If Sen. Ron Wyden wants to end arms sales to Bahrain for 'violently suppressing peaceful civil dissent', why not Israel?
    • A: How about – “Because Palestinian dissent is overwhelmingly non-peaceful and non civil.”?

      Lest she be considered an "aggressor" by "common sense"-wielding "humanists", it's important for the victim to peacefully and civilly dissent against the rapist who has raped her, who continues to rape her and who, with the help and encouragement of his uncle, Sam, has no intention of ever halting his rape.

  • A weekend of violence in Gaza
    • >> I’m sure it is traumatic to have rockets fired at you, just for breathing.

      The Palestinians - ethnically cleansed ("currently not necessary") from their homes and lands and subjected to 60+ years of ON-GOING Israeli aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder just for breathing - must feel at least as traumatized.

      >> JN: Richard Witty said ...

      Yeah, but you just know he didn't mean it. ;-)

    • >> DBG: I don’t get why they start firing rockets in the first place.
      >> POA: Escalating expansion, settlers launching terrorist attacks daily, olive groves and crops being destroyed, Jerusalem being swallowed whole, monies being witheld, crippling sanctions, blockades, water stolen, illegal separation fences eating up land, fishermen targeted, children fired on and kidnapped and incarcerated…

      Yeah, yeah, POA, but why? WHY?! I mean, all you've done is provide facts. What about emotion? What about narrative?! What about the Holocaust?!?!

  • The Israeli army shot at me and 3 Palestinian kids in Gaza today
    • Hmmm...I wonder why the "humanist" Zio-supremacists have not yet chimed in with their "live #AND# let live!" chant.

  • 2 reports say Israel may be preparing Iran attack
    • >> 150,000 US troops have proved useless in both Iraq and Afghanistan Eljay. How are they going to have any affect on Iran?

      I don't know how - or even if - those troops would have any effect on Iran, but if the West (with the help of eager, Middle Eastern partners) is going to start bombing Iran, having an additional 150,000 troops at "our" disposal puts "us" in a much better offensive...I mean, pre-emptive self-defensive position.

    • >> Don’t fall for that BS. The US were kicked out of Iraq.

      Kicked out or not, American troops will soon be available to be deployed wherever "freedom", "democracy" and "justice" need to be rammed hard down someone's throat...

      "Live #and# let live!"

  • Romney promises to abdicate American foreign policy towards Israel . . . to Israel
    • Iran faces existential threats from Israel and the U.S. It is as entitled as any nation on Earth to defend itself by developing nuclear weapons and engaging in "pre-emptive self-defense" strikes on nations that represent potential threats.

      Or are some nations "more entitled" than others when it comes to nukes and "pre-emptive" warfare? Say it ain't so! :-(

  • Racism toward Arabs is what unifies the Zionist right, says JJ Goldberg, liberal Zionist
    • >> wj: Israel needs to change to survive.

      It needs to move away from being a religion-supremacist "Jewish state" and toward being the secular, democratic and egalitarian nation of all Israelis.

      >> wj: When I read about the nakba I react that I couldn’t have done that.

      You're a better man than is RW:
      >> RW: If I was an adult in 1948, I probably would have supported whatever it took to create the state of Israel, and held my nose at actions that I could not possibly do myself.
      >> RW: I cannot consistently say that “ethnic cleansing is never necessary”.

  • 4-year-old Palestinian girl is rendered quadriplegic by Israeli military training in occupied West Bank
    • >> Arab world was wrong to keep Jews as second class dhimmis for a thousand years and for slaughtering Jews periodically through the millenia and for slaughtering Jews in the 20th century in Hebron, Jerusalem, Tripoli, Baghdad, Cairo and Buenos Aires.

      Yes, it was. Not that this in any way justifies a religion-supremacist "Jewish state"...

  • Minneapolis panel pitting Zionist and anti-Zionist Jews gets no media attention
  • Lacking 'legitimacy' in its neighborhood, Israel is imploding -- Sullivan
    • A secular, democratic and egalitarian Israel is just right. A religion-supremacist Israel is not.

      >> The other political construct designed in a noble experiment to right the wrongs of the past, and specifically the hideous wrongs of the Second World War, was the state of Israel.

      Experiment? Definitely. Noble? Not so much.

  • Why Palestinian rights are not front and center for OWS meta-brand
  • Testimony of an Israeli activist who was robbed and beaten by settlers while attempting to assist the olive harvest
  • Israeli effort to remove Bedouins from East Jerusalem is part of the plan to make two states impossible
    • >> The Israeli government wants to urbanize a traditionally rural population to make it easier to judaize the West Bank, and to more easily control the Palestinians. It makes strategic sense that they are trying to remove those in the E1 settlement bloc first, because full colonization of that area as planned, would effectively divide the West Bank into two parts, eliminating any illusion of territorial contiguity that was once there.

      "Live #AND# let live!" Ain't Zio-supremacism grand?!

  • Israeli police target Sheikh Jarrah store for hanging posters of Erdogan
  • As settlers disrupt olive harvest, Israeli officer declares: 'I am the law, I am God.'
    • >> Rafi Dagan, an Israeli commanding officer, stated “I am the law. I am God”

      The qualifications for god-hood ain't what they used to be!

      This article makes me ill. The only thing that disgusts me more is knowing that Zio-supremacist pukes like RW, eee and the rest of that loathsome bunch will either support, justify or simply ignore the immoral actions of the "Jewish state" and its representatives.

  • Americans who support Palestinian cause must be willing to lose friends
  • Palestinian citizens of Israel are second class citizens, even in the Prague airport
    • >> seafoid October 20, 2011 at 6:17 pm

      This merits logging in and commenting on. Nicely done, seafoid. :-)

  • Something to contemplate as you sit in rush hour traffic waiting to get on to the Queensboro bridge
    • Telling Israelis they can't build in occupied parts of Jerusalem is pro-justice.

      That sign, on the other hand, is pro-deception.

  • Knesset to vote on full Israeli annexation of the West Bank
    • >> link to

      That was an interesting read. Thanks.

    • >> As the prime minister of Israel, I speak for a hundred generations of Jews who were dispersed throughout the lands, who suffered every evil under the sun, but who never gave up hope of restoring their national life in the one and only Jewish state.

      Pope Bibi I!

  • Ron Paul for Palestinian statehood: 'I believe in self-determination of peoples'
  • The view from the West Bank: Statehood bid? What statehood bid?
    • >> How can one not be proud of Israel when one sees how much better Israel turned out than all the states around it?

      "Israel: We're not as good as the best but, hey, at least we're not as bad as the worst!" (C)

    • >> What really bugs people here that actually Jews had managed to pull this off after 2000 years of exile.

      Pulling off an oppressive, destructive, colonialist, supremacist "Jewish state" built on violence and religious self-righteousness and maintained by violence and religious self-righteousness is neither glamorous nor moral.

  • White House sells Quartet statement on negotiations as 'a major accomplishment in Israel's favor'
    • >> ... a simple truth: The core of the conflict is not the settlements. The settlements are a result of the conflict. The settlements have to be - it's an issue that has to be addressed and resolved in the course of negotiations. ...

      Hmmm...'The core of the struggle between the rapist and his victim is not the rape. The rape is a result of the struggle. The rape must be - it's an issue that has to be resolved in the course of negotiations.'

      Bibi appears to suffer from the same debilitating "common sense" that afflicts other Zio-supremacists: We stole, colonized, oppressed, destroyed and killed...but it's not our fault. We continue to steal, colonize, oppress, destroy and kill...but it's not our fault. Gosh, all we want is peace. Now, please excuse us, we have to go steal, colonize, oppress, destroy and kill. But it's not our fault.

  • Palestinian negotiator Hanan Ashrawi pressed on next steps for Palestinian statehood
    • >> Which is why I offer my three state solution. Take a small patch of the Negev that no-one uses, put a fence around it and another down the middle. In one half you put all the crackpot Jews, in the other the similarly crackpot Muslims. These will be the Jewish State and the Islamic State. The rest of the country is for those who are prepared to make an effort to get on with the neighbours.

      Simple. Elegant. Beautiful. :-)

  • Turkish government releases identities of IDF soldiers who attacked the Mavi Marmara
    • >> ... eee’s strange ideas about treason ...

      That's just eee's "common sense" hard at work. The results are never very good.

  • Obama's impossible dilemma--and ours
    • >> 1) The person who planted the bomb also threatens to blow up the city if evacuation begins.

      Terrorist threats against civilians in City A does not justify the ethnic cleansing of Jews from City B. What if the terrorist told you that you had to rape your sister, or kill your father and eat him, or torture your neighbour's children? Would you do it? I mean, it would be justified, right? You are one disturbed individual.

      >> 2) Secure and defend the populations? How? What if no country wants to send a strong enough force?

      What if they do? What if the force is strong enough and peace is achieved? No Jews will have to be cleansed, despite your desire to do so. So there.

      3) What is the difference between relocating and cleansing? It is just moving populations against their will. What if the people in the flood zone want to stay, but don’t want compensation?

      Are you that dense that you don't understand moving civilians out of a flood plain vs. ethnic cleansing? But, yes, if they want to stay, have them sign a waiver and let them stay. As adults, its their choice. (The children, however, should not be permitted to remain with the suicidal parents.)

      >> In short, there are many cases in which ethnic cleansing is justified and there is nothing immoral or hateful about saying that.

      No, there are no cases in which ethnic cleansing is justified. None at all. Ever. It is hateful and immoral to suggest that there are. It's even more hateful and immoral to use that defense to justify purely supremacist land-grabs.

      You are a hateful and immoral person. You sincerely disgust me. And, so, this is the last time I will respond to any of your posts directly.

      Keep up the good work.

    • >> Your imagination is quite limited.

      My imagination is pretty good: Anti-Semitic aliens arrive on Earth and demand that all Jews be cleansed from the planet or they will zap the Earth with their "planet killer" death-ray. Jews must therefore be cleansed from the Earth. Ta-dah!!

      I'm just not as hateful and immoral as you are.

      1. Evacuate NYC until the city has been declared safe. No ethnic cleansing of Jews required.

      2. Invoke international intervention. Secure and defend affected "populations" in order to uphold and protect their human rights. Undertake mediation, and develop a framework for respectful integration and collaboration. And if all that should utterly fail - and here's where you rub your hands with glee and purposely misunderstand or distort what I'm about to say - work towards a concensual and equitable division (w/ FMV compensation) of "populations" into two autonomous states (A and B), with full and equal rights for all individuals of nation A who wish to remain as citizens in nation B, and vice-versa. No ethnic cleansing of Jews required.

      (NOTE: This is not what happened in Mandate Palestine. Not even close. But you'll distort my comments anyway.)

      3. Re-locate (w/ FMV compensation) affected civilians to somewhere outside of the dam's "flood zone". No ethnic cleansing of Jews required.

      Your pathetic attempts to justify Zionist evils never ceases to amaze me. You truly are nothing more than a hateful and immoral person.

    • Hi, eee. In this thread, you said:
      >> I can certainly imagine situations where evicting Jews is justified.

      And I posted the following:
      >> I happen to think that “evicting” (i.e., ethnically cleansing) Jews and Palestinians – anyone, actually – is wrong, but since you are able to “certainly imagine situations where evicting Jews is justified”, please list three such situations.

      I remain very curious to know what situations you would classify as justifiable for the ethnic cleansing of Jews. Three examples will suffice.

      Thanks! :-)

    • >> going poorly for who[m] [e]ljay?

      For both parties. The Palestinians do not have a state, Israel does not have peace.

      >> ... The Palestinians have never been in a better position to end the occupation.

      Israel is the occupier, but it's up to the Palestinians to end the occupation. Funny stuff.

    • >> Ariel Sharon disengaged from Gaza in 2005 eliminating all settlements, creating a Jew free Gaza.

      Eliminating Israeli settlements would have created an Israeli-free Gaza (unless, of course, individual Israelis remained to live in Gaza).

    • >> Ariel Sharon disengaged from Gaza in 2005 eliminating all settlements ... unlike Palestinian leaders and their supporters, Israel learns from their mistakes.

      Hmmm. Israel "learns from [its] mistakes" by expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank, by maintaining an ON-GOING campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder, and by refusing to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

      No wonder things are going so poorly.

  • Buttu, Erakat, Dajani, Rabbani and Abunimah respond to UN speeches
  • Obama approves secret sale of 'bunker buster' bombs to Israel
    • >> Second, it disgusts me to see Bibi grovel, asking for recognition of Israel as a Jewish State.

      He shouldn't be asking at all. Israel should not be a supremacist "Jewish state". It is (or it should be) the secular, democratic and egalitarian nation-state of all Israelis.

      >> I’ve never understood the policy of paying somebody for a crime. you object to all Holocaust-related compensations?

      >> As far as I’m concerned, the only thing that counts to me is how you live your life, how you treat your fellow man ...

      Zionists are failing miserably.

      >> As for hate crimes, having the Turks “recognize” their genocide, or having the Germans “recognize” their past is disgusting.

      Not at all. When crimes are committed, people and/or states must be held accountable. Accountability reinforces justice, helps to provide closure and, with any luck, helps to prevent a re-occurrence o the crimes. Germans, Turks, Americans, Israelis/Zionists, etc. must all be held accountable for their crimes.

  • Abbas brings Tahrir to New York, and some of our media seem to be on board
    • >> annie: seriously kris, are you in your right mind?

      Kris' point isn't all that unreasonable. Muslim Americans have been tarnished by the actions of Islamofascists and have been expected to apologize for them. Equality suggests that Jewish Americans should be tarnished by the actions of Zio-supremacists and should be expected to apologize for them.

      Then again - and this is where I do agree with you - compounding one wrong with another is not the best way to proceed, even if it does leave a bitter taste in one's mouth.

  • Mondoweiss liveblogs the UN General Assembly speeches

      +1. Thanks! :-)

    • >> So Lithuania and Minneapolis should be part of the Jewish State. Just common sense.

      Ain't "common sense" grand?! :-)

    • >> No surprise; the Arabs have never truly accepted Israel.

      It might have something to do with the fact that Israel is an aggressive, expansionist, colonialist, oppressive, destructive and supremacist "Jewish state". Funny how a state like that might be just a tad unpopular. :-(

  • Clemons: Imagine Cuba trumping the Soviet Union in the 60s, that's what Netanyahu did to Obama
    • >> I think you are probably right that if Mearsheimer gets tarred for his endorsement it will hurt not only his credibility but will also tarnish Walt and the work they did.

      This is how I understood Shmuel's initial post on this matter (which, FWIW, I agreed with).

      >> I apologize for assuming the worst. You of anybody here deserve the benefit of the doubt.


      >> Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail and in a civil manner.

      Thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to say that.

  • Mr. President, we don't want a shortcut, we want our freedom
  • Ismail Khalidi: A tragic lecture, justifiying a vicious occupation, with no awareness that we killed the two-state solution
    • >> eee: I can certainly imagine situations where evicting Jews is justified.

      I happen to think that "evicting" (i.e., ethnically cleansing) Jews and Palestinians - anyone, actually - is wrong, but since you are able to "certainly imagine situations where evicting Jews is justified", please list three such situations.

      Thank you.

  • Obama speech was shattering to liberal Zionists
  • Palestinians have a better chance of getting a state on Craigslist than from Barack Obama
    • >> ... are you willing to put up with a Republican president, which would certainly result if Pres. Obama did the “right thing”?

      If doing the right thing now will result in a kook of a Republican becoming president next term, postponing doing the right thing will merely postpone by one term the result of a kook of a Republican becoming president.

      So, in my opinion, the choice is between:
      - honour and integrity now, followed by a Republican prez; or
      - dishonour and damaged integrity now, with all the repercussions it will generate; honour and integrity next term MAYBE, and possibly too late; followed by a Republican prez.

      I would choose the former.

    • >> Had he done so, there isn’t a single contributor to this website who would not know that he kissed his chance of re-election good-bye ... I, for one, believe that if he is re-elected and is free of the AIPAC shackles, he will make Netanyahoo pay for the humiliation he has taken.

      Had he done so, he would have found himself "free of the AIPAC shackles" considerably sooner.

      I don't believe he's saving his honour and integrity for another day. I don't believe he has any to save.

  • Ashrawi and Tibi say Obama made it sound like Palestinians are occupying Israel
    • >> To blame the politicians is to miss the point, the system is designed to filter out all but the most craven.

      I get that the system is rigged; what I dislike, what bothers me, is the fact that, thanks to human nature, there are always enough people to keep the rigged system working.

  • Obama consulted no Palestinians for his rendition of history
    • >> The Holocaust weepies that pour out of Hollywood ignore the homosexuals. And the same goes for nearly everything that makes reference to the Holocaust. It is nearly always presented as a “Jews only” event.

      That's because only Jews were killed and so they deserve all of Palestine because gawd promised it to them and it's a "required" evil for the greater good of the "Jewish nation". That's just "common sense", man!

    • >> Does a 70 year old German who was born in Germany and lived there all his life and does not speak a word of French become part of the French nation because he moves to Paris and gets French citizenship?

      Yup. France is the French nation. If the German guy acquires French citizenship, he becomes French. A German guy who remains a German citizen in Germany but who also happens to speak French is not a member of the French nation. He may consider himself or be considered a francophone, he may feel that he is part of a French-speaking "nation", but he is not part of the French nation of France.

      >> So yes, the Jewish nation is just like the French nation.

      Nope. The German guy cannot move to "Jewish state" and acquire Jewish citizenship. Jews may be a people, but they are not a nation in the way that France, Canada, the U.S., Germany and Australia are nations. Or in the way that, presumably, Palestine will be a nation.

    • >> Hostage: Once in Israel, you obtain Israeli citizenship, but retain your old “nationality”. They have invented two, “Jewish” and “Arab”, that simply don’t exist anywhere else in the real world.

      I wasn't aware of that - thanks for the clarification. Boy, it's even more f*cked up than I thought.

    • >> You do not become part of the French nation by immigrating to France.

      Yes, you do. France is the nation. If you acquire French citizenship, you are part of the nation of France.

      >> You become part of the French nation by learning French and so on.

      People learn French and go to French movies and read French newspapers all the time. That does not make them part of the nation of France, which is the only French nation in the world (not to be confused with other nations in which French is spoken). Brazilians speak Portuguese, but they are not part of the Portuguese nation, because the Portuguese nation is Portugal.

      >> But you can get French citizenship without being part of the French nation.

      If you get French citizenship, you are indeed part of the French nation, which is France.

      >> You do not become a Jew by going to Israel.

      That's right, you become Israeli, because Israel is the nation and Israeli is the nationality.

      >> You become a Jew by learning Jewish customs. But you can be a citizen of the Jewish state without being a Jew.

      There is no "Jewish state". If there were, one could immigrate to it and acquire Jewish citizenship. One cannot do that.

      >> As for the heap, yes, all that matters is the act of self-determination but for certain groups. Making a distinction is not being a hypocrite.

      Based on your assertion that self-determination is all that matters in determining nation-hood, no distinction can be made between a self-determined nation of three people or a self-determined nation of 300 million people.

    • >> …you’re a ricist.

      Badda-boom!! Nice work. :-)

    • >> You can be a Jew without being Israeli ...

      That's right. You can be a Jew of any nationality in the world.

      >> ... and and Israeli without being Jewish.

      Because the nationality is Israeli, not Jewish. Jewish - like Christian or Muslim - is just a subset of the Israeli nationality, in the same way that it is a subset of French, Italian, American or German nationalities.

      For "Jewish state" to be a nation like any other nation, and for Jewish to be a nationality, one would have to be able to immigrate to "Jewish state" and acquire Jewish citizenship. That is currently not the case.

    • >> Let’s try again. Is a person that believes 3 grains of rice are not a heap but 1 million are, a hypocrite? Of course not.

      You said that the act of self-determination is all that matters. If you refuse to recognize as a heap the three grains of rice that have self-determined themselves to be a heap, or to recognize as a nation the group of cheesecake-loving philatelists in Brisbane that have self-determined themselves to be a nation, you are indeed a hypocrite.

      >> The Jews are a nation exactly like the Germans. Except their country is called Israel and not Jewy and our language is Hebrew and not Israelian. Just like in France and Germany you have to know the language to become a citizen, to become a Jew you have to learn our customs.

      If their country is Israel, then they are Israelis and their nationality is Israeli. And, as with France, Italy and Germany, one can acquire Israeli citizenship by immigrating to Israel.

      "Jew" is not a nationality because one cannot become "Jew" by immigrating to "Jewish state". A Muslim or a Christian can go to France and become a French Muslim or a French Christian. A Muslim or a Christian cannot go to "Jewish state" and become a Jewish Muslim or a Jewish Christian.

      When that kind of secular-ness becomes possible in "Jewish state", I will agree that "Jewish state" is a state just like France or Italy or Germany. Until then, it remains religion-supremacist and quite unlike any of those states.

    • >> ... (in groups where self determination indeed produces nations like the Jews, Italians, Germans etc.)

      Jews may be a "people", but they're not a nation like Italians or Germans. And until a person can go to "Jewish state" and acquire Jewish citizenship - just as one who goes to Italy or Germany can acquire Italian or German citizenship - "Jewish state" will remain a religion-supremacist state quite unlike Italy or Germany.

    • >> Let’s try again this time explicitly stating the obvious.

      What's absolutely, perfectly obvious is that if the act of self-determination is what is important - but only when it suits you - then you are a hypocrite.

    • >> Yes, I am bigot ...

      I'm glad to see you've come to terms with that.

      >> That is basically your analogy.

      You are seriously dense person. Earlier on, YOU said "What you call objective criteria are merely things that usually lead to the act of self determination which is what is important, not the things that lead groups to embrace it."

      So, based on YOUR assertion, if a group of cheesecake-loving philatelists in Brisbane seld-determines themselves to be a nation, they are a nation. If three grains of rice self-determine themselves to be a heap, they are a heap.

      If you disagree with either self-determination, that would make you a hypocrite based on YOUR assertion that "What you call objective criteria are merely things that usually lead to the act of self determination which is what is important, not the things that lead groups to embrace it."

    • >> What you call objective criteria are merely things that usually lead to the act of self determination which is what is important, not the things that lead groups to embrace it. ...

      If self-determination is the only thing that's important, you're a hypocrite (no surprise there) for suggesting that Jews can be a nation, but that cheesecake-loving philatelists in Brisbane who (self-)self-determine themselves as a nation cannot.

      Once again, your special brand of "common sense" has let you down.

    • >> Before RoHa gives you his spiel about the self-determination of cheesecake-loving philatelists in Brisbane ...

      I look forward to that spiel. He does it well. :-)

  • Deal in works to save Obama casting a veto, and continue 'peace process' --Guardian
    • >> What part of the word “suicide” do you not get?

      He gets it. He's just playing his usual idiotic game of baseless fearmongering and incessant victimhood.

      Someone could say "Israel is going to choke when the Palestinians get their state" and he'll envision masses of skeeeery Ay-rabs swarming the Hole-y Lande, wrapping their dirty hands around fine Israeli necks and squeezing.

    • That Fisk article is wonderful (in a thoroughly depressing sort of way).

  • Mearsheimer on dual loyalty and William Safire
    • || Nathan: ... I would guess that William Safire was probably a supporter of Kurdish statehood because he believed that the Kurdish desire for an independent state was legitimate (it’s called “the right of self-determination”). ... ||

      Self-determination for the people in and n-generations removed from geographic Palestine is legitimate.

      Self-determination for the people in and n-generations removed from the geographic region comprising Kurdistan is legitimate.

      Zionist "self-determination" - the belief that the religion-based identity of Jewish grants to the citizens of homelands all over the world who have chosen to hold it the right to a religion-supremacist "Jewish State" in as much as possible of geographic Palestine - is not legitimate.

  • Traitors to apartheid
    • The number of Israeli Jews unwilling to support and defend Israel's existence as a supremacist "Jewish State" will likely be significantly less than the number of Israeli non-Jews unwilling to support and defend it.

      Israel makes ethnic cleansing legal and respectable. Way to go, supremacist "Jewish State"! :-)

  • Avigdor Lieberman's UN speech shows the true face of Israel
  • Comments Policy
    • >> A.R.: ... one more thing. tomorrow i have a dentist appt. an emergency actually, vvery pppainful.

      Ouch! :-( Best of luck at the dentist's office. :-)

    • FWIW: My posts occasionally get held up, too, but better a delay than no Mondoweiss.

      Annie, you and the rest of the MW crew do great work. My thanks and respect to all of you. :-)

    • >> I’m getting quite nervous about the absence of an official statement here.

      The lack of communication isn't bothering me yet, but I do think it's somewhat disappointing.

      And I'm puzzled by a new development: The way some posts+replies are being grouped such that one can only reply to the last reply in the series rather than to the original post.

    • What if it's just a technical glitch?

    • Hmmm...I hit one when logging in, but not when posting this test post.

      I hope it's a temporary addition. The tinypass screen is annoying enough.

    • >> Shmuel: Interesting how (after your hasty correction) “two parties claiming the same thing” makes the WB “disputed”, but not EJ.

      He couldn't back-track fast enough from that one! :-)

      >> mondonuteee: Choosing the Israeli lexicon ... is not an inflammatory threadjacking diverting lie ... It is 100% legitimate.

      It's as legitimate as 2 = NEVER. Too funny...

    • >> Occupied and disputed are not mutually exclusive. Israel is in fact, occupying disputed territory.

      Occupied and disputed are not mutually exclusive. The rapist, with impunity, occupies the victim's disputed* vagina.

      (*She claims it's hers, the rapist claims it's his, so - according to mondonuteee's Zio-supremacist "logic" - it's disputed.)

    • >> I demand ...

      "The Nutty Perfesser"!

      >> Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, and denying Israel the right to exist

      Jews / Jewish people have a right to determine that they are Jews / Jewish people. No-one denies them that right.

      Jews / Jewish people do not have a right to set up a supremacist "Jewish State". No-one has a right to set up a supremacist state. No-one should be granted the right to set up a supremacist state.

      Supremacist states are unjust and immoral constructs. This explains why Zio-supremacists are so in favour of a supremacist "Jewish State".

    • >> You have consistently suppressed my comments lately. Objective, informative comments.

      The perfesser whines that his comments are being suppressed because he is Jewish ("anti-Semitism!!!") when the more-likely explanation is that they are being suppressed because he is a hateful, immoral and Zio-supremacist bigot.

      Aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig, even for a perfesser... :-(

    • >> That is on the background of verbal abuses and direct cursing which I personally and all pro Israelis experience here.

      "Pro-Israeli" sounds innocuous. You - and Zio-supremacists like you - are much more than that. You're Jewish supremacists. You advocate for, defend, justify and/or excuse:
      - Jewish terrorism;
      - the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
      - the creation of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist "Jewish State" of Israel in Palestine;
      - Israel's 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder;
      - Israel's refusal to honour its obligations under international law;
      - Israel's refusal to be held accountable for its past and on-going (war) crimes; and
      - Israel's refusal to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

      Aggressor-victimhood is a tough gig...even for a perfesser. :-(

    • >> It is no wonder that we are as far from a peace agreement as ever, because such disingenuity and intransigence is typical of the Palestinian position.

      Disingenuity and intransigence - that's pretty heavy stuff!

      But what is much more likely keeping peace at bay is the existence of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist "Jewish State" in Palestine, created by means of Zio-supremacist terrorism and ethnic cleansing, and maintained and expanded by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder. Plus refusal to be held accountable for any of its past or ON-GOING and tremendously (war) criminal behaviour. Plus refusal to enter into sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.

      But, yeah, disingenuity and intransigence...

  • 'Einstein on Israel' reveals essential history of debate over Zionism and a Jewish state
    • || RoHa: If that includes any of mine, it is a disaster of unfathomable proportions. ||

      Your's were probably just rants, about poor grammer and punctuation. No great loss. ;-)

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