Total number of comments: 5341 (since 2009-09-15 17:09:27)
eljay
Mondoweiss.net supporterI'm a happily-married, vegetarian and atheist Canadian with two wonderful cats. :-)
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Showing comments 4100 - 4001
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Mmmm...eggplant...oh, sorry, what were we talking about? ;-)
>> Feel free to elucidate me.
OK, here goes: He can enlighten you by elucidating, but he can't elucidate you.
There. Hope that helps. :-)
>> Few Israelis support the settlers or their goals and would be delighted to engage in some kind of land for peace deal, provided that they actually got some peace in exchange for their concessions.
Of course they would be delighted. Criminals would love nothing more than to return only a minute fraction of the vast sums they have stolen from their victims in exchange for absolution for their crimes.
The arrogance of preyonpalestine's statement is impressive. Coming from a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist, however, it's not at all surprising.
>> What you call “international law” I call “changing the rules of the game just to screw the Jews”. For thousands of years, and even since then for anyone who isn’t Jewish, land was taken by force. ... But as soon as Jews get some land, suddenly and retroactively its “international law says no”.
I love how Zio-supremacists strive to emulate the worst in human behaviour. Reach for the bottom, boys!
And I think it's funny as hell that Zio-supremacists are all tough talk and swagger when they tell you it's perfectly acceptable to acquire land by force, but if they think someone's going to do it to them, they hypocritically whine, bitch and moan about how unjust it all is. :-(
Too much...
>> “Head of the family” and “_DEPENDENTS_” not “DESCENDANTS”. That means that if an actual refugee has young children the young children can get help while the parents are getting help, not that refugee status passes from generation to generation without limit.
And if a Jew actually exiled from the Land of Israel has young children the young children have a right to return to that land while the parents have a right to return to that land, not that the status of exile passes from generation to generation without limit.
Otherwise, you end up with hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists self-righteously employing terrorism and ethnic cleansing to create an oppressive, expansionist, colonialist and supremacist state for themselves and for other Zio-supremacists to occupy and colonize (a.k.a. to "return" to).
Ooops, too late... :-(
>> Israel chooses to offer citizenship to Jews, not because they are refugees, but simply because Israel wants to.
Israeli chooses to offer citizenship to Jews because Israel was created - by means of terrorism and ethnic cleansing - to be a supremacist Jewish state.
>> Why would Israel want to rejigger their return law so as to neuter its key national objective ...
Exactly. Israel did not and does not have any interest in being a secular, democratic and egalitarian state of and for all Israelis, equally. It is interested only in being a religion-supremacist state for Jews.
>> No, since Israel is a sovereign country it should apply to whoever they want it to apply to. If they want a law of return that applies to red-headed, left-handed bald midgets with dandruff, they have the sovereign right to make such a law.
And it would be as unjust as Israel's current supremacist and discriminatory law of "return". The only difference is that a hypocrite like you would be complaining that it now discriminated against you. :-(
>> The law of return ... is a law granting favorable immigration status. It is granted by the national laws of one country.
Right. And since the country is Israel, the law should apply to all Israelis and their descendants, equally.
>> Whether the Palestinian descendants are refugees has nothing to do with the law of return.
The law of return has as its premise a right of "return" to the "Land of Israel" (LoI) for Jews who are descended from the refugees who were exiled from the LoI.
- Categorize all Palestinians and their descendants as refugees from their lands since 1948.
- Categorize all ancient Jews and their descendants as refugees from the LoI.
- To both groups, apply the same criteria (# of generations removed from the land, etc.) for determining what constitutes a refugee.
- Those who qualify as a refugee are entitled to return; those who do not qualify as a refugee are not entitled to return.
>> From "Eliminating 4,970,000 Palestinian refugees: Status Update":
>> The bill, slated for markup on May 22, would challenge the status of the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of Palestinian refugees -- a great many of whom claim to be refugees despite the fact that they were never personally displaced in the 1948 and 1967 Arab-Israeli wars.
The bill should also challenge the status of Jews who claim a right to "return" to a place from which either they nor their parents nor grandparents nor great-grandparents, etc., came from or have ever lived.
>> As Kirk's office explains, Congress will soon need to consider tough questions, like whether U.S. taxpayers should be footing the bill for welfare programs in the West Bank and Gaza ...
Perhaps Congress should consider tougher questions, like whether U.S. taxpayers should be footing the bill for an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist Jewish State.
Behold the Glorious Jewish State!
Smell the hate burn
the fires that incite
another night of riots.
The beacon weakens
the light unto the nations
shines less, clearly obscured
by a righteous veil.
Morality scorned
by hubris formed
of Zio-myths grown bold;
behold the inglorious jewish state...
>> I get it why the left uses this kind of rhetoric, i suppose they borrowed it from the Soviet’s who did think of themselves as liberators of Europe in general, even of Germans.
The hateful and immoral Russian-turned-Israeli Zio-supremacist lectures the German on morality. Very amusing. :-)
>> So I was all the more appalled when I went to the West Bank in 2007 and saw for myself the long waits in the blazing sun at check points that resembled cattle chutes, the Israeli-only roads, the "settlements" that are new cities of Judean limestone with fountains and swimming pools and irrigation. ... While nearby Palestinian villages have inadequate water supplies, they are forbidden to drill new wells, and filth and garbage is thrown down existing wells (I saw it), and homes are routinely torn down because they may not have had building permits. Palestinians can't get them!
>> And the acres and acres and acres of olive stumps - chopped down or dug up.
When confronted with the hateful and immoral ugliness of the Jewish State, what do Zio-supremacists do? Gloss it over and say "Found two sentences to be quite amusing".
>> Surely Israel can stand up and take the lead here ...
It could, but then it wouldn't live up to the tag-line it boasts:
"Israel: We may not be as good as the best but, hey, at least we're not as bad as the worst!" (TM)
>> There is nothing pseudo about Jews returning home.
It is when the "home" they are returning to is not their own.
>> This is either the historic homeland of the Jews or it is not.
It is not.
>> If it is, and we all know it is ...
We don't all know it is, because it's not.
>> The curse and the blessing of Jews is that they tend to forfeight “common” problems in pursue of higher and more [noble] goals- say ... Zionism ...
There's nothing "higher and more noble" about a supremacist ideology of self-righteous entitlement.
>> " ... my expectations from all Jewish communities is first of all to support any government in Israel. It doesn't matter whether it's dovish or right wing, it's democratically elected."
Unthinking, unquestioning loyalty. Click your boot-heels together and raise your arms!
>> "All Jewish people have a right to be in this discussion ... "
I'm sure he meant to say "All Israeli people have a right to be in this discussion." Unless...is he some sort of supremacist? 8-o
>> link to youtube.com
This says to me: "Thomas Friedman is an idiot."
>> IG: It is starting to look a lot like Iraq. ... The same undemonstrated charges about weapons of mass destruction are being made.
>> HL: Regime change by any means is and always has been the name of the game, in my opinion nothing the Iranians do will change US/Israel policy ...
Iraq redux:
>> Press Briefing by Ari Fleischer, December 2, 2002
>> A.F.: ... Saddam Hussein does not exactly have a track record of telling the world the truth. So he, on December 8th, has to indicate whether or not he has weapons. Let's see what he says. If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
That one still blows me away.
>> The Palestinians are responsible for many barbaric acts of terror. Walt seems all to eager to blank out and ignore those acts.
Jews are responsible for many barbaric acts of terror. Hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like giladg seem all too eager to blank out and ignore those acts.
>> Normal, healthy thinking says hang on, you perpetrated acts of terror and war and people have died as a result, then a price needs to paid and those responsible need to be held accountable.
Correct. Jews have perpetrated acts of terror and war and people have died as a result. Jews continue to perpetrate acts of terror and war and people continue to die as a result. A price needs to be paid and those responsible need to be held accountable.
>> Walt let’s the Palestinian terror leaders off the hook as if terror just happens out of thin air.
Zio-supremacists absolve themselves, their co-collectivists and their Glorious Jewish State as if terror just happens out of thin air.
The dissimulating cluelessness of giladg's post might have been amusing if it weren't for the fact that he and his sentiments are utterly revolting.
>> Not one mention in his diatribe about Palestinian rejectionism of an independent Jewish state.
There's no reason for Palestinians to have accepted a supremacist Jewish state created by means of Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands.
>> Not one mention of the lack of options Israel faces when trying to balance being a moral, law abinding [sic] nation and then trying to prevent Arab terror.
Leave it to hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists to gloss over two very obvious options the Glorious Jewish State has at its disposal to prevent "Arab terror":
i) Israel can halt - immediately and completely - its 60+ years, ON-GOING and OFFENSIVE (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
ii) Israel can engage in sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace.
The Glorious Jewish State has the power to do both these things, but it choose not to.
Striking a balance presumes that Israel is actually a moral, law-abiding nation. But it isn't a moral, law-abiding nation - it's an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state.
>> Cause and effect.
Cause: A supremacist state established by means of Jewish terrorism and ethnic cleansing, and maintained by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and OFFENSIVE (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
Effect: A 60+ years struggle against an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist, destructive, murderous and supremacist state.
Cause and effect.
>> “Involved in a car accident” sounds so much more innocent than “ran over two cops in a hit-and-run accident”.
"Israel is a Jewish and democratic state" sounds so much more innocent than "Israel is an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state born of terrorism and ethnic cleansing, and maintained by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and OFFENSIVE (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder".
>> That’s the point, Cliff, [armor plating] doesn’t fight them, it just passively defends the driver from them. A defense is not a weapon. Hence armor plating something is not “weaponizing” it. Q.E.D.
Exactly! Nuclear bombs don't fight anyone, they just passively defend Iran from overtly-aggressive nations like Israel and the U.S. A defense is not a weapon. Hence nuclear bombs are not something that "weaponize" Iran. Q.E.D.
>> Charon @ May 22, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Aggressor-victimhood is a tough gig.
>> It’s armor plated to defend itself against terrorist attacks.
Leave it up to a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist to gloss over the fact that the bulldozer was in Gaza, outside of Partition borders. The bulldozing was the terrorist attack, perpetrated by the Glorious Jewish State.
>> ... you are dumber than we all believe you are.
Dumb(er)? No. A hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist? Definitely.
>> He wasn’t pointing the gun at the kid just grabbing it one handed by the barrel ... That’s not how you hold a rifle to shoot someone.
I agree. In pics 1, 2 and 4 of the series containing the Brave Defender of the Glorious Jewish State (BDotGJS) and the boy, you can see the BDotGJS' hand on the barrel, near to and slightly forward of the ammo clip. So it doesn't look like he was about to shoot the kid.
Was he planning to pull an "Eisner" and bravely and heroically smash the kid in the face with his assult rifle? That's a good question... ;-)
>> I don’t understand the “Mohammad is dead” chant. Of course he is.
I was wondering the very same thing. :-)
>> With the rare exception of Australian aboriginals
>> Indigenous should always be read as the Latest Conquerers.
In other words, people of the Jewish faith from countries around the world had - and have - no special claim on Levantine land. No right to "return" to it, because it was never theirs to "return" to. Good, glad you cleared that up.
>> You know if you keep repeating something often enough it may be easier to remember but it doesn’t make it True.
You might want to point that out to Zio-supremacists. They appear not to have learned that lesson yet.
>> In the independence war, the Arabs killed over 6000 Jews. It was hardly one sided. The Arabs just happened to lose.
In the rapist's brutal physical and sexual assault on his victim, the victim punched the rapist's face - drawing blood and leaving a bruise - and tore his brand-new shirt. It was hardly one-sided. The victim just happened to lose.
>> Here are the facts:
>> 1. The Arab village of Asira al-Qibliya is just west of the Jewish town of Yitzhar.
Here is the most important fact of all, the one that hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists just like you love to gloss over: The Jewish State's Jewish colony of Yitzhar is deep within the West Bank, far outside of the Jewish State
's19481967borders.>> These Arabs are like the guy who murders his parents and then cries for mercy from the court on the grounds of being an orphan.
These Jews are like the rapists who, while they brutally beat and rape their victims, cry for mercy from the court because the victims are slapping and punching them.
Typical Zio-supremacist apologetics: It's not up to the rapist to stop raping the victim and punching her in the face, it's up to the victim to stop attacking the rapist as he continues to rape her and then complaining when he punches her in the face.
>> Should the flag represent only Jews?
If 'yes', which flag would represent the Israeli people who are not Jews, and the descendants of these non-Jewish Israeli people?
>> I watched it and thought – what does Lefty think about the flags with the Star of David? Are these flags the flags of a religious community or what? Maybe the flags of a people?
The flag with the Star of David is the flag of the people of Israel. Israel is comprised of Jews and non-Jews.
Should the flag represent only Jews? And only Jews in Israel, or all Jews anywhere in the world?
>> Here’s the Greek song ...
Now that's more like it! No creepiness, just a catchy tune and a very pretty girl. :-)
Still not my cup of tea, but much easier on the eyes... :-D
>> how can you call that catchy?
I can see how it might be considered catchy in a creepy, retro, J-ABBA-nese, karaoke kind of way. Definitely not my cup of tea.
>> 'Although the author grew up speaking German, he chooses to write instead in the Hebrew he learned from the age of 14, calling German "the language of the murderers".'
The author is right to forgo using a piddly little language like German when he has at his disposal Hebrew, "the language of the terrorists and the ethnic cleansers and the occupiers and the colonizers and the oppressors and the assassins and the supremacists and the war-mongers".
>> Until someone is in the hands of the government, it is the executive branch’s perogative to kill them if they are dangerous and can’t be captured safely. ... If they want due process they are free to surrender peacefully.
Likewise, then, foreign nations have a right:
- to place onto their own "capture or kill" lists any Americans and Israelis they consider to be dangerous; and
- to assassinate any of these dangerous people who fail to surrender peacefully or who are in foreign countries and can't be safely captured.
>> The Nakba and its aftermath are a shameful chapter in Jewish history. For Jews of good conscience everywhere, repudiating and resisting the injustice perpetrated in their name is an urgent mitzvah. This doesn't mean Israeli Jews must be expelled from their homeland ... [b]ut it does mean the Jews of Israel must at long last grant the Palestinians they've ruled for so long the same rights as they themselves enjoy, even if it means an end to the ethnically exclusivist Jewish state.
Amen.
>> I struggle with something that Israel supporters say: Well you did it to the Native Americans, who are you to tell us not to do it?
Leave it to Zio-supremacists to argue the immorality and injustice perpetrated by others as justification for the immorality and injustice they commit.
"Israel: We may not be as good as the best but, hey, at least we're not as bad as the worst!" (TM)
Reach for the bottom, boys, reach for the bottom!
Anyway, if I were American, I'd have a bigger struggle with Israeli supporters pointing out America's on-going hypocrisy regarding - among other things - offensive warfare, large-scale devastation, illegal munitions, assassination, torture and absolution for war criminals.
Found him. He's American. And the monster, if I'm not mistaken, is Cthulhu.
Oh, and I write better poetry than he does. IMHO only, of course. ;-)
>> His picture shows a green, multitentacled monster ...
OK, well, that's definitely not me. I'm not green. :-)
>> If you do not know me as RH3, then there are two eljays on the internet. This is a disturbing thought for both of us.
I was intrigued...but now I am disturbed. 8-o
Then again, if the other eljay is as likeable as I am, the world is better off with two of us. :-D
>> ... in a Another Forum which both eljay and I infest ...
I'm intrigued...
>> Thanks for the attempted defense eljay, but his was an inadvertent typing error, while mine was lazymindedness.
Yeah, I know, but it was worth the jab. :-)
>> I don’t see Israel flaunting international laws, but it certainbly [sic] flouts them often enough.
Are you certainb? ;-)
>> I’d like to point out here that Holland is not a country, anymore than England is.
And I'd like to point out here that, according to Wiki (and according to everyone I know):
>> The term Holland is also frequently used as a pars pro toto to refer to the whole of the Netherlands.
IOW, in common usage, Holland = Netherlands. :)
>> The woman did not die according to the article i also provided but was wounded to the head.
I stand corrected.
>> Though the policemen were shooting to kill obviously.
Their failure must be disappointing.
>> Obviously i consider myself to be a moral man ...
As does every Zio-supremacist.
>> Sure there is if you suspect the guy is still dangerous ...
...and not a Jew. Can't forget that important caveat.
>> Here is a good example.
After a slow-speed chase, a car is hemmed in between two cruisers. When the woman - who refuses to get out of the car - moves her vehicle forward a few inches, she's shot dead.
If that, to you, is "a good example" of a justifiable police homicide, you are more f*cked up than I imagined.
>> ... we want the reconciliation to start now.
The rapist wants reconciliation with his victim to start now, but she refuses and just keeps begging him to stop raping her and to let her go free. The poor rapist can't understand why she's being so uncooperative. Why does she hate him so much?! :-(
Zio-supremacism really does make people stupid.
>> Second, while Israel didn’t do a Bimiyah Buddha job on al-Haram ash-Sharif as some Jews wanted (one cheer for not being as bad as the Taliban), it still control who gets to visit it, often limiting Muslims from doing so simply because they’re males of a particular age.
"Israel: We may not be as good as the best but, hey, at least we're not as bad as the worst!" (c)
>> So will Dershowitz join Beinart who fears that Israel is committing national suicide?
To do that, he'd have to become a self-loathing, Israel-hating anti-Semite, wouldn't he? I can't wait to see what happens... ;-)
>> All these actions and they wonder why they are detested by decent civilized human beings worldwide.
Zio-supremacists know they're detested for being hateful and immoral. However, thanks to the breath-taking arrogance and self-righteousness that are a fundamental part of Zio-supremacism, they just don't care.
>> Does Iran s develop nukes because it’s afraid of Western pressure or is western pressure a reaction to Iran developing nukes because it wants to dominate the region.
>> Hint: the correct answer would be, both.
1. Was the religion supremacist Jewish State of Israel...
- created using terrorism and ethnic cleansing; and
- maintained by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder;
...because Palestinians retaliated against their oppressors and colonizers?
- or -
2. Did, and do, Palestinians retaliate against their oppressors and colonizers because:
- the religion supremacist Jewish State of Israel was created using terrorism and ethnic cleansing; and
- it has been maintained by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder?
Hint: The correct answer would be #2.
>> By the way, I think we should also have a truth commission here in the U.S. for our misdeeds during the so-called War on Terror.
Yup. It smacks of more than just a little hypocrisy and exceptionalism to talk about "... shifting from an era of human rights violations to one based on trust ..." and to point out how "... a dedicated commitment to justice ..." is better than "... the current policies of supporting abuses and violence by one side against the other ..." without binding the U.S. to the same shift and commitment.
>> When a nations back is against the wall ...
Israel's back is not against the wall. It is the aggressor and the occupier. It is the expansionist and colonialist state. It operates far outside of Partition borders. It remains engaged in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
But, then, you probably think the rapist has his back against the wall every time the victim he is raping tries to slap and punch him.
>> Do you feel that the Zionist movement was born out of greed and a desire for domination ?
How it was born is considerably less relevant than how it was implemented...which is:
- Jewish / Israeli terrorism;
- Jewish / Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and land;
- the establishment of a religion-supremacist "Jewish state"; and
- a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder (which the Jewish state has the power to halt immediately and completely, but which it refuses to halt).
My desire to chat up a lovely lady may be born of a desire to have sex with her, but if I drug her, kidnap her, take her to a remote location and continue to rape her indefinitely, I suspect that people might look past the seemingly-innocent "birth" of my desire and focus more on the hateful, immoral and ON-GOING reality of its implementation.
>> I would oppose any measures (such as expulsion of Arabs) designed to coercively impose a Jewish majority.
That's good. But since he still advocates for a Jewish state - rather than an Israeli state of and for all Israelis, equally - other options remain on the table, including:
- Legally-enshrined, permanent-majority status for Jews.
- Legal or functional second-class citizen status for all non-Jewish Israelis.
- Special right of "return" for non-Israeli Jews (but not non-Israeli non-Jews).
>> ROR is a clear attempt to reverse the results of 1948
Palestinians with decades or centuries of tangible ties to the land from which they - or their parents or grandparents - were expelled by terrorists and supremacists less than 70 years ago are denied their legal right to return to that land.
Meanwhile, foreign citizens of a particular faith - who never lived in that land; whose parents or grandparents never lived in that land; whose ancestors had not lived in that land for generations or even centuries, if at all - are permitted and encouraged to "return" to a place to which they have no tangible ties. (Biblical yearnings and the Holocaust do not represent tangible ties.)
The hatefulness and immorality of Zio-supremacists - and the pride they seem to take in being hateful and immoral - never ceases to amaze me.
>> RoHa: I think they should set up ghettoes.
>> Sumud: Hold on – that’s a typo right? You meant to say “don’t think they should…”, right??
>> RoHa: Aaaaarrrgggghhh! Yes, the “don’t” should be in there.
I think RoHa should not be ridiculed for having made a mistake.
Ooops, hang on, I *ahem* inadvertently omitted a "don't"... ;-)
>> An individual Jew can do whatever he likes
>> though you can’t undo you upbringing
Bullshit. Pure, unadulterated bullshit. An individual Jew can choose to stop being a Jew any time he wants. There's no magic or mysticism involved. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I'm first-generation Canadian of Croatian and Italian upbringing, and indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism. I can damned well "undo my upbringing"...and I did. I don't identify as either Croatian or Italian, because I'm neither, but as Canadian, because that's who and what I am. And I abandoned the foolishness of religion and faith years ago, too.
No matter how self-important you wish to feel about it, "Jewish" isn't so special that it can't be "undone".
>> Can you unbecome being a German ?
Thanks to plastic surgery, a man can unbecome being a man. To unbecome being a German or a Jew is considerably easier - it simply requires the person to stop being a German or a Jew and to start being something else.
>> Do you not find such a proposal to be extremely offensive?
Nope. There's nothing offensive about a person's decision - their freely-made choice - to stop being a man or a German or a Jew.
It's a sad thing that petty minds like yours are unwilling to accept such choices.
>> He has left the community but he hasn’t stopped being a Jew.
>> Most of the rabbinical authority that debated on this point agreed that that is the situation.
This is just too funny! Someone decides not to be Jew anymore, but some "rabbinical authority" - which has no authority over him as a human being - says he's still something he has decided he is not!
>> Yet only the Jewish idea of exceptionality gets so much attention and publicity.
American exceptionality gets plenty of attention and publicity. But you pretend you don't notice it because you don't like biting the hand that feeds you.
>> Nazi Germany Sumud Nazi Germany.
>> A unique kind of evil.
The Jewish State, OlegR, the Jewish State.
A unique Jewish kind of evil.
>> try to argue that the German civilian population was also a victim of the Nazi regime.I consider it to be an apologetic Bullshit.
Spoken like a true master of apologetic bullshit, who defends the Israeli population as also a victim of the Jewish State regime.
>> those rockets are fired at my people my family and my friends.
>> And i want them stopped.
You want them stopped, but you and your people are not willing to halt your country's 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
And you and your people are not willing to give up everything you have stolen outside of Partition borders.
And you and your people are not willing to work toward an equitable settlement for all you have stolen (by means of terrorism and ethnic cleansing) within Partition borders.
It's a tough gig being an aggressor-victim. :-(
>> Well Klaus we don’t remember the Holocaust for the early years
now do we?
You're right, we don't. We remember it primarily as:
- "The Bestest Genocide Ever!" (TM); and
- the alternate (to the Biblical) justification for Jewish terrorism, for the Jewish and Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and land, and for the establishment of a supremacist Jewish state in Palestine.
>> Do you think the Jews should have just laid down and given up in Nazi Germany? Just disobey the authorities and take a bullet. Should they have written letters and committed suicide as a legacy to their people? They were being tortured and starved and they survived. You don’t get it, do you?
I get it. You're saying that Israel is like Nazi Germany, and the Palestinians - despite being tortured and starved - must do their best to survive.
A wonderfully apt analogy. Thank you.
>> Not every Rabbi has a conflict of interest. Check your assumptions.
I didn't say every rabbi has a conflict of interest. Check your own assumptions.
From the NYT article:
>> ... his ultra-Orthodox advocacy group was instructing adherent Jews that they could report allegations of child sexual abuse to district attorneys or the police only if a rabbi first determined that the suspicions were credible.
>> Many of the rabbis consider sexual abuse accusations to be community matters best handled by rabbinical authorities, who often do not report their conclusions to the police.
>> Yitzgood: Never mind Orthodoxy–reporting people to the authorities is a sensitive and serious matter–do you disagree with that?
Without a doubt, reporting people to the authorities is a sensitive and serious matter. This does not justify filtering accusations of wrong-doing through any person or group who has a clear conflict of interest in the matter (whether personal / communal / tribal / cultural / etc.) and giving him/them the power to potentially suppress evidence of wrongdoing.
>> I think eljay answered that question below / or above ...
Zing! But seriously OlegR, since I did not write my post in response to any challenge from you, I wasn't actually "counter arguing a strawman", so the title of "idiot" remains firmly in your possession. :-)
>> Funny how you always cut and paste the same ... paragraph all the time.
I don't cut-and-paste it - I type it out every time. Pointing out just how hateful and immoral are the Jewish State and its Zio-supremacist supporters is worth the extra effort. :-)
>> Get over yourself and come up with new stuff for each post.
Says the guy whose posts routinely contain hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist dogma, propaganda and apologetics. Too funny.
>> Your cutting and pasting just makes you boring.
Boo-hoo! The hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist called me 'boring'! :-(
Funny how the Zio-supremacists always manage to gloss over the fact that Israel - a oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist state born of terrorism and ethnic cleansing - remains engaged in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
And I like how the solutions to Israel's problems always seem to involve more soldiers and weapons and oppression and destruction and murder...but never an actual end to Israel's 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder - even though Israel has the power to end its campaign immediately and completely.
The Zios cried
at the ones who dared:
Submit or die,
you'll not be spared!
The Arabs lost
the Jews well fared
the Promised Land reborn.
Ah, the Righteous crow,
it's ours to take!
The Holocaust
give us the right to make
a tribal home
of justice fake
and love and kindness shorn.
~
Strike the man who peace demands
kill him and cut off his hands.
Fill up the cracks, retain the hate
that is the Jewish state.
That was a beautiful, thoughtful and moving speech by Mr. Patinkin. Nicely done!
>> RTE (Irish Radio) reported this morning that there are more high tech companies in Israel than the entire EU– combined! It’s second only to Silicon valley.
Wow! No country that is second only to Silicon Valley could possibly be an oppressive, expansionist, colonialist and religion-supremacist state involved in a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder! All hail the Glorious Jewish State of Greater Israel!
>> Terryscott @ May 12, 2012 at 11:49 am
A visit to Haifa University does not alter the reality of Israel's 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.
A visit to Haifa University does not transform Israel from a religion-supremacist Jewish state into a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state of and for all Israelis, equally.
>> Eljay the fact that some anonym says a stupid thing does not mean that you can quote him as a proof of anything.
Evidently I can, because I did. :-)
I quoted him as proof that not every Jew believes that "Jewish is part of your essence".
He believes he's right, you believe you're right. You're both Jews and you're both anonyms. How's a poor
goyguy like me supposed to know which one of you to believe? ;-)>> Shmuel @ May 14, 2012 at 9:05 am
The respect I already had for you has increased substantially.
>> But being a Jew is considered to be your basic essensce.
Unless you don't support the Jewish state, in which case you should not be considered a Jew:
>> 1. The Jewish community in Israel is about 50% of the Jews in the world.
>> 2. BDS aim is to cause change in Israel’s Jews view by harming them economically.
>> 3. A major tenant [sic] of Judaism is caring about other Jews
>> Therefore, anyone wanting to harm 50% of Jews is putting himself outside the Jewish community and should not be considered a Jew.
>> Why doesn’t she feel the other way round?
If the people she loves most are hateful and immoral, she should be more terrified that they will accept her - and she, them - than that they will reject her for embracing kindness and morality and justice.
>> But listen to her:
I read the comments and waited for something substantial...and got nothing.
>> We have to open an honest conversation, and opening an honest conversation requires us to challenge the conventional wisdom that questioning-- questioning in itself is heresy.
>> And in order to achieve the questions and the open dialogue, we all need to go somewhere where we fear to tread.
Wow, that sounds dramatic! But...she fails to mention:
- what the conversation is about;
- what the conventional wisdom is;
- how the conventional wisdom will be questioned;
- where it is that she fears to tread; and
- what she will say when she has the conversation and asks the questions and treads in foreboding place.
All smoke and no fire. Boring.
>> Nose jobs are big business in Iran.
Maybe it's a Persian thing... ;-)
>> but [it's] not your right to decide ...
I never said it was.
>> You all cannot adequately explain and/or justify the actions of the Palestinians and the Arab and Muslim world in 1948 when they rejected the UN partition plan that gave them everything, and a whole lot more ...
Zio-supremacism sure does make people stupid.
Before partition, Palestinians had exactly what they had, which was everything. Partition - which took from them a part of what was theirs - could not possibly have given them "everything", never mind "everything, and a whole lot more".
And what partition didn't take away from the Palestinians, Jewish terrorism and ethnic cleansing, and a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder, did.
>> Anyone supporting the right of return of Palestinians ... is saying that Israel, the single Jewish country on this planet, will no longer exist. Now that is just not right, and you know it.
I support a limited RoR for Palestinians (w/ compensation in lieu). Regardless, I don't believe that Israel should exist as a religion-supremacist "Jewish state". I believe it should exist as a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state, of and for all Israelis equally.
>> Oh, those doctors just want to stop the Jews from maintaining our cultural practices. ...
A primitive cultural practice that involves mutilating a male infant's penis by snipping skin off it is a practice that is neither worth bragging about nor worth preserving.
If Jews really MUST snip skin off penises, they should just leave it be until the males are of consenting age, at which time they can gather together and have at each other with scissors.
>> As for why boys and not girls ... The two procedures aren’t even close. There is no comparison.
Actually, there's quite a bit of comparison: Both practices are cultural, both involve mutilation and both are opposed by those horrible doctors.
>> ... other than ones who are lauded for turning against Israel and their fellow Jews.
They are rightly lauded for choosing morality, justice, human rights and just plain decency over the immoral, unjust and narrow-minded tribalism Zio-supremacists like you stand for and advocate for.
>> Yes, but this website is supposedly about criticizing Israel, not about bashing Jews. And yet, somehow, they end up posting anything that makes Jews look bad, anywhere in the world. It is a fair question to ask “why?”.
It's been pretty evident to me that this site, while being primarily focused on the I-P issue, is not exclusively about "criticizing Israel".
This thread is about a story in the New York Times. Rather than expressing disgust at the immorality of members of your nation / people / tribe / community / religion, you're here expressing dismay that Phil is not helping to hush it up. Nice colours you're showing there.
>> I am sure this can be somehow tied up to Israel and the Occupation but i just can’t see it at the moment.
According to Mrs. Engleman: "Our community protects molesters." Israelis may be protective of their Jewish state's immorality but, as crazy at it may sound, the Jewish state is not the only place in the world where the Chosen People do immoral things.
>> How ironic that we have, in America, a group of vastly wealthy thugs who are about as powerful as people ever get these days and who hold the entire American political class hostage/prisoner, whilst crying “we are victims” and “we need Israel as a place of refuge”.
No one ever said aggressor-victimhood was easy. Thankfully, Zio-supremacists have their hatefulness, their immorality and their belief in gawd-given supremacy to keep them going when lesser human beings might have succumbed to reason or to decency.
>> Why there should be no self-hating Palestinians?
Not sure about "self-hating", but IMO there's no reason to expect that no Palestinian could ever be self-serving. The Chosen People are capable of moral failure, so it should surprise no one that the un-Chosen are also capable of it, too.
>> Give it a few moments of thought.
I did. They chose something that was not as good as the best, but better than the worst.
Give that a few moments of thought.
>> Strange, the refugees seems to believe it’s the first place on earth that they want to be refugees in.
Some women choose to live with their abusive husbands rather than end up disease-ridden and destitute on the streets.
"Israel (and abusive husbands): We may not be as good as the best but, hey, at least we're not as bad as the worst!" (c)
>> ... Mya Guarnieri, closes the show with: if Israel is a Jewish state, "where do non-Jews fit into it?"
They fit into it in the only way they are permitted to fit into a religion-supremacist state: As second-class citizens.
>> seanmcbride @ May 14, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Interesting post, seanmcbride - thanks! :-)
>> Not at all. Judaism is a nationality that has a religion attached to it ...
So now Judaism is a nationality first, and a religion second. Interesting.
>> ... but it is not defined exclusively by that religion.
It is defined fundamentally by that religion.