Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 148 (since 2009-08-01 05:59:46)

Frankie P

I'm a human rights junkie. I believe all humans are chosen and equally treated by their creator.

Showing comments 148 - 101

  • Obama's failure, and achievement, in Palestine
    • Obama's achievements on the I/P issue can be symbolized accurately as a nothing sandwich on milquetoast. The first piece of milquetoast was the Cairo speech on June 4, 2009, a promising delivery that unfortunately did NOT translate into any subsequent action on the issues. For the next eight years, there was a bunch of nothing from Obama, not even enough promotion of peace to deserve a bottle of polish to rub on his Nobel Peace Prize. We witnessed just more of the much-expected US Presidential jamming of said POTUS's proboscis up the Zionist poop chute, something that Americans have become much accustomed to. Finally, he needed to find closure to his non-existant sandwich, so he added the second piece of milqutoast: the abstention at the UN Security Council on the condemnation of Israeli settlements, again a non-substantial action that means nothing coming so late in the game of his second term with NO opportunity to follow it up with anything armed with teeth.

      Phil Weiss should examine his views of Obama. They completely lack rational objectivity and logic; they are colored by rose-tinted lenses on spectacles of a thickness unprecedented. I'm with broadside and joemowrey on this one. Following all the worthwhile stuff that Phil Weiss has produced in the past, gaining my admiration and interest in continuing to visit this site, this is vomit inducing, syrup of ipecac!

      Frankie P

  • Epic battle looms over accused anti-Semite entering White House, and 'NYT' graywashes the moment
    • James North should be deeply embarrassed about this piece, in which he shirks the responsibilities of a journalist in the same way that Rolling Stone did in their debacle rape case.

      Let me offer an aside. I cannot type the url "" and get into the site. I get some kind of weird error message. I have to go to my yahoo browser and type in "mondoweiss website". The third link I get when I do so says "Mondoweiss is a hate site" from the Washington Post. There you have it. An "accused hate site". Fortunately, I have some critical thinking skills and am able to make decisions for myself regarding what constitutes "a hate site", "hate", "hatred", etc. I am willing to look at the piece and decide, based on study, information and experience, what is a "hate site". If I were a journalist with a desire to report and persuade readers, I would offer a strong rebuttal to the writer of a piece called "Mondoweiss is a hate site", and I would include in the piece both the content of the writer's accusation and my rebuttal.

      James North goes heavy on the "accused anti-semite" in this piece, repeated ad nauseum, but he never says what Bannon's "accused anti-semitism" consists of. Why does the ADL call him an anti-semite? Should we not be presented with this information in the article? Or does the ADL's labeling suffice for (((James North))). Who made James North the arbiter on anti-semitism, accused or otherwise?

      Note this framing: (((North))): The article gives a shocking but true statement of Bannon’s political character: (Haaretz Chemi Shalev): "He is considered the standard bearer for the racist, anti-immigrant alt-right movement and has been accused of harboring anti-Semitic sentiments himself." (((North))): An entirely fair summary.

      Now back it up North!! Why is it an entirely fair summary? Why is Bannon an anti-semite? What is Bannon's political character? You've supported the statement, now give us some persuasive information that backs it up!

      What passes for journalism these days. You guys are now taking a page from the mainstream media, creating stories. Congratulations!

      Frankie P

    • James North fails to understand that "accused anti-semite" means absolutely nothing. Jimmy Carter is an accused anti-semite for writing Palestine: Peace not Apartheid. Mearsheimer and Walt: accused anti-semites for writing what is now viewed as accurate analysis. Alison Weir: accused anti-semite. The knee-jerk dirty brush of "anti-semite" for any analysis, factual or not, that does not sit well with organized Zionism or anti-Zionist Zionism (Weir) has made "accused anti-semite" a badge of honor. Now let's sing the chorus of my new hit song.

      If they say it's anti-semitism, but you know it's the truth, what you gonna do?
      Chorus of voices: I'm gonna tell the truth.
      If they say it's racism, but you know it's the truth, what you gonna do?
      Chorus of voices: I'm gonna tell the truth.
      If they say it's homophobia, but you know it's the truth, what you gonna do?
      Chorus of voices: I'm gonna tell the truth.

      Frankie P

  • Clintonites knocked out platform references to 'occupation' and 'settlements' in fear of Adelson, Zogby says
    • I can only say that if I turned off the light at night or closed my eyes and was confronted by that visage, I would feel great fear, too. The horror!

  • Freewheeling Trump has backed down on only one issue. Guess which one
    • @Emory Riddle,

      You're making sense again, and North and Weiss, in the final paragraph, get to the truth. Why not just start the piece with the truth, instead of pulling a New York Slimes tactic and saving it until the end?

      "and now he’s getting Israel lobby money"

      Because here in July, with the election coming up in November, it's ALL about the money! Yes, those extra Jewish votes in Florida will help Trump win that swing state, but it's the Jewish money for the campaign that will allow Trump to spend big in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and he WILL cement his lead in those two swing states. Every terror attack in Europe, every black perp pumping a bullet into an American cop, will bring more of those blue collar Democrats in Pa. and Ohio into the Trump fold.

      Now, does the Donald have the ultimate chutzpah, which would be to throw those Jewish backers under the bus after the election and follow through on his original plan, namely negotiating the I/P conflict with a clean slate, without favoring the Israeli side. It would be a truly presidential thing to do, something we haven't seen from an American president for decades.

      By the way Donald, if you want to work with the allies who want to destroy ISIS and stamp out Islamic terrorism, don't count on the Jewish State in the Levant to help out. They prefer ISIS to the legitimate government of Syria, and their military officers publicly state the fact.

      Frankie P

  • Why Trump's revolution succeeded, and Bernie's fizzled
    • @Annie,

      I recommend a visit to the california-demographics webite to check the ethnic makeup of California cities. What cities are in the northern counties? San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose? Sorry, I'm not so familiar with California's geography, but I'll tell you one thing, black make up a pretty small percentage of the populations of San Francisco (white + hispanic + asian = 90%), San Jose (white + hispanic + asian = 93.5%), Fresno (white + hispanic + asian = 89%). In fact, it seems that in the northern counties, only Oakland (black = 26%) shows black representation above the national average. This is extremely rare for urban centers, which usually show much higher representation of blacks as a demographic. LA and San Diego in the south ALSO show a lower demographic of blacks, with both LA and San Diego, the two biggest cities in California, both coming in at under 11%.

    • Emory, Right on! Phil is well into dreamland on that statement. Bernie, clearly aware that he was scoring in the low single digits with black voters, and I mean 2% and 3% low, needed to massage that demographic, so he used a few token black celebrities in photo ops and editorials and had a few meetings with BLM members as an afterthought. Perhaps he believed that it would be enough to shift his share of the black vote into double digits, perhaps even 20 to 30%, but of course it didn't pan out that way. The left loves to point out how poor white voters consistently vote against their own interests when they pull the Republican lever, but nobody mentions how black voters elect representatives from Goldman Sachs and big finance (Hillary) and fail to notice how their community were huge victims from the subprime debacle of just a few years ago.

    • I'm not sure if amigo's comment here is disingenuous or just merely ignorant. Let me explain, and truthfully I don't care if amigo stops reading after my first sentence. It's clear that one major goal for Trump in the Republican National Convention is to create unity in the party, and I was going to say "his party", but that would be a bit inaccurate. If it is his party, it is, as Phil pointed out, a result of his wresting control of the party from an establishment that has harrassed and attacked him every step of the way through the primaries. So, with a goal of creating unity, what do you think of attacking Bush in the convention as a tactic? I thought so. Somewhat similar to borrowing a gun from an NRA member and letting loose on his own right foot. Now, let's hearken back to the primary season. Besides Bernie Sanders, who voted against the Iraq War initially but later voted to fund it generously, what other candidate had the gall, the chutzpah, the balls, to say, during a debate no less, and in North Carolina, "Bush lied, and people (US soldiers) died." Not sure how deep your memory hole is, amigo, but that candidate would be Trump. Now, I'm not sure which Donald we'll get if he wins the election. Will it be the Donald who said "Bush lied and people died", the same Donald who said "I can work with Putin.", or will it be the Donald who said "I'll undo the Iran nuclear deal and renegotiate it (to Israel's benefit).", the same Donald who said the Palestinians caused all the problems in the Israel / Palestine eternal cauldron of injustice. Here's to hoping that the latter Donald is only shilling for Jewish dollars in the run-up to November, and the former Donald reappears when he takes office, to the chagrin and anger of neocons everywhere.

      Frankie P

  • 'Either Assad or we'll burn the country' - An excerpt from 'Burning Country: Syrians in Revolution and War' (Update)
    • Danaa,

      Thank you so much for this.

      "In truth the Syrian army with the support of Russia, Hezbollah and Iran/Iraq (the axis of resistance) has been mounting a truly heroic stand against the forces of evil that were trained upon the country. Be it ISIS, the various Al-Quaeda affiliates, Turkmen paramilitants or various islamist groupings (FSA etc.) – all armed and paid for – these are the enemies of the Syrian people and indeed, in many cases, of civilization itself."

      I have reached a similar conclusion, namely that Russia, Hezbollah and Iran/Iraq are fighting to save civilization in Syria, and we in the west have become the forces of evil. I agree with the Saker that the concert in Palmyra, especially with its opening piece of Bach's “Chaconne”, Partita for solo violin Nº 2 in D minor, BWV 1004, was a message from Russia, saying that they have always admired the cultural and civilizational advances made by western civilization, but they are appalled and worried about the way the west has now decended into voluntary civilizational suicide.

      I must post this comment from the saker's site, as it is one of the most beautiful comments I have ever read on the internet. It was penned by one Dr. N. G. Maroudas, and it speaks to the culture and civilization that is at stake in Syria:

      Thank you, Dr. Maroudas!

      "That classical concert Palmyra, with the sun shining on the golden stone of antiquity, celebrates the return of Syria to its normal civilized self. Once again Syria impresses the world by its ability to shrug off foreign Empires. A Yankee tourist wrote 150 years ago that everything in the USA was bigger and better than anything in the Middle East – except for Damascus, which awed him totally. From Mark Twain’s book, “The Yankees Abroad”:
      “Damascus is an oasis whose waters have not failed for thousands of years. Go back as far as you will into the vague past of cities, there was always a Damascus. No recorded event has occurred in the world but Damascus was already in existence to receive news of it. In the writings of every century for more than 4,000 years its name has been mentioned and its praises sung [we now know Damascus city is 8,000 years old]. To Damascus years are only moments, decades only flitting trifles of time. She measures time not by years but by the Empires she has seen rise and prosper and crumble to ruin. She saw Baalbek and Thebes and Ephesus grow into mighty cities, and she has lived to see them deserted. She saw the Israelitish Empire of David and Solomon exalted, and she saw it annihilated. She saw Greece rise and the Empire of Alexander flourish and die. She saw Rome built; she saw its Empire overshadow the world; she saw it perish. Damascus has seen all this, and still she lives. Though others may lay claim be called The Eternal City, it is Damascus who deserves that name by right.”
      [And Mark Twain ends his book, The Innocents Abroad, with this tribute to Damascus:]
      “Damascus – the Pearl of the East, the pride of Syria, the original Garden of Eden, the home of princes, of fabled genii of The Arabian Nights, of Damascus steel tough but sharp as a razor, of Damask silk soft as a young girl’s cheek – the one city in the world that has kept its name and held its place and looked serenely on while transitory Empires have enjoyed their little season of pride and pomp, then vanished and been forgotten”.
      Twain wrote in the middle of the 19th century. By the 20th century Damascus had also seen the sun set on Great Britain’s “Empire on which the sun never sets”. And now, in this classical concert in Palmyra, Damascus bears witness to the sunset of the Anglo-Bankers Empire of Chaos, and a return to civilized values.
      But the greatest tribute to Damascus is the one which Mark Twain could not bring himself to relate, because he was an atheist: an ancient story about military “boots on the ground” in Syria, headed by one Saul, “a Hebrew of the Hebrews and citizen of Rome”. Saul’s bosses in Jerusalem and Rome had spread the word that certain Syrians were evil and should be “taken out”. It was on a punitive expedition to Damascus that a blinding light threw Saul off his horse, and a voice rang in his ears: “Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute Me?”. The greatest tribute which the modern world can give to Damascus is, that great light from Heaven is still shining and that great voice of compassion is still ringing in our ears."

  • Sy Hersh's 'forbidden statement': Sanders's liberation from NY Jewish money could change US foreign policy
    • MRW,

      You forget that the US, especially under neocon influence, tends to ignore the expression of political will through democratic processes when the outcome diverges from the Empire's plan!

    • Sanders operates under the grand illusion that Putin and Russia will somehow be convinced to restore Crimea to the fascists in Ukraine. I agree with MRW, that is ALARMING.

    • Bernie was just following in Ron Paul's footsteps. Ron Paul raised a lot of money on the internet from small contributions. Perhaps we can look forward to more of this marginalization of the oligarchs through grass roots donations. I sure hope so.

  • Trump and the war for 'Western Values'
    • Hillary Clinton on Gaddafi: The mask came down and the face of evil inhumanity was shown. Many who glimped it will NEVER forget it and NEVER vote for Hillary. Those whose paychecks are dependent on a continuation of the clusterf*** that is the zeitgeist in the USA today will pretend that they didn't see it, or were suffering from indigestion that influenced their vision, or some excuse.

    • So, I'm wondering how you guys, just like all the pundits from the libertarian (Justin Raimondo) and small government paleos (Pat Buchanan), fail to see the glaring disconnect in Trump's foreign policy speech, a disconnect that makes me doubtful about the good things that he DID say. That disconnect is, of course, his railing against Iran and Obama's deal. So, to cut to the chase, let's juxtapose these issues. 1) Trump vows to fight ISIS. 2) Trump vows to communicate and work together with Putin and Russia. 3) Trump vows to undo the deal with and put the screws to Iran, a country that he seems to want to put in the same basket as ISIS.

      I believe that Trump's son-in-law is still running interference for him with AIPAC and the neocons, finding out the issues that they see as vital to Israel's well-being, and then he is pushing all the buttons that they want pushed. Will this play out in reality if he becomes pretzeldent? I don't know. I do know that he pushed a lot of the same buttons during the foreign policy speech that he did in the AIPAC speech regarding Iran, and I believe the reports that said his son-in-law was dealing with communication with the Israeli Ambassador before that speech.

      Frankie P

  • Liberal Zionists are losing control of US discourse, and they know it
    • Headline!!! Liberal Zionists are losing control of US discourse, and they know it

      Money Quote from Eisner: Eisner says the pro-Israel community has to shift to a more positive campaign and redeploy smart young Jewish advocates from “responding intensively to the most extreme forms of anti-Israel activity to a much more positive, proactive and strategic approach toward improving sympathy and empathy for Israel.”

      Frankie's comment: Perhaps liberal Zionists and their brother Zionists of a more bloodthirsty, fascistic, inhuman stripe should focus more on the morality of their actions and less on controlling the discourse. Herein lies the root of the problem.

  • Why is AIPAC legitimating Donald Trump's bigotry?
    • Donald Trump: "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people who have a lot of problems, and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists, and some of them, I assume, are good people, but I talk to border guards, and they tell us what we're getting."

      Frankie says: Not the most articulate way to explain the situation, I agree. Please note that he's talking about illegal immigrants from Mexico, and that there's a subset of them who are criminals. They're bringing drugs across the borders, and some are rapists. I wouldn't say that Mexico is sending the people. I would say that the people are deciding to come on their own.
      However, the media wants to say it another way, and James North obviously agrees with the media. They are all too willing to report that either a) Trump was talking about all illegal Mexican immigrants. or b) Trump was talking about ALL Mexican immigrants. or even c) Trump was talking about all Mexicans.

      New York Times: "Trump's claim that illegal Mexican immigrants are 'rapists'."
      Huffington Post: "He called Latino immigrants 'criminals' and 'rapists'."
      Washington Post: "He referred to Mexicans as 'rapists'."
      AP: "Trump called Mexican immigrants 'criminals' and 'rapists'."
      Time Magazine: "Trump's comment that Mexican immigrants are 'rapists'."

      Mondoweiss (James North or Phil Weiss, who usually does the headlines)
      "Trump's bigotry."

      By the way, Trump was referencing a Fusion article stating that according to directors of migrant shelters, a "staggering 80% of Central American girls and women crossing Mexico en route to the United States are raped along the way."

      I guess the directors of the migrant shelters are bigots, too. Right James?

      Frankie P

  • 'No Wars for the Billionaire Class': A look at a possible Sanders foreign policy
    • Adam,

      Is Phyllis Bennis, the Director of the New Internationalism Project at the Institute for Policy Studies (whatever that means, sounds like gobbledegook), in any way affiliated with Bernie Sanders and his campaign for President? This article, with its army of "possibles", shines a light on the show business circus that Presidential campaigns have become. Here we have Phyllis Bennis, Daniel Denvir, and Katrina vanden Heuvel parlaying in "maybes", and giving their opinions of what Bernie's foreign policy should, or may, or perhaps, or possibly, be. Here we have Adam putting up a headline that has quotes around the phrase "No Wars for the Billionaire Class" next to the name Bernie Sanders. Folks, Bernie Sanders never said that. Question: When did Bernie Sanders say this; the chronology of this statement is essential, and the omission of it is spin:

      Sanders once said “I have a problem with appropriating $2 billion to Egypt and $3 billion to Israel. Let’s take care of some of the problems we have at home first.”

      Isn't Phyllis Bennis knee-deep in the Alison Weir debacle?

      Did Bernie Sanders say that Putin regrets taking Crimea and should return it to the Ukraine? He has demonstrated a 5th grade level of understanding of foreign policy. Russia will defend Crimea with nuclear weapons, and anyone who doesn't understand this needs foreign policy schooling. Did Bernie Sanders say that Saudi Arabia should step up to fight Islamic Wahabbi terrorism? What kind of understanding of foreign policy is this? Calling on the single biggest supporter of Wahabbi terrorism to step up and fight it seems somewhat problematic, to be tame.

      Finally, why doesn't Bernie Sanders just come out and address these issues? Make some statements about foreign policy? It's like some kind of big mystery. Like the talking heads going on about what HRC said in her Goldman Sachs speeches. She won't release the transcripts, because she knows it will hurt her in the election. Is Bernie's foreign policy the same? He won't comment on it, because he knows it will hurt him?

      We need more straight talkers, people not afraid to tell the truth.

  • Methodist divestment highlights Israel's place in the world
    • Ellis asking some important questions:

      Should the Jewish establishment be included on this list? Perhaps the Methodists will change the notation: Israel-Palestinian Territories/American Jewish Establishment.

      Yet the reality is that American Jews, indeed Jews all over the world, are entangled in Israel. Isn’t it time for Christian advocates for justice for Palestinians to take the next step and call Israel what it has always been, a Jewish issue?

      Peled answering them in the affirmative:

      "Certainly there are Jewish people who actively support the Palestinian cause and speak out against the Israeli crimes. Members of my family do so, some of my friends in Palestine and around the world who are Jewish do so, and of course the ultra-orthodox Neturei Karta do so. And although these Jewish voices are beginning to be heard, all told we are a negligible few.

      So next time a Palestinian says the “Yahud” killed my family, the Yahud took my land, the Yahud put my father in prison, the Yahud forced my family into exile, spare them the indignation. Spare them the long lecture about the distinctions between Jew and Israeli, Israeli and Zionist, etc. Instead, it is time to demand the Yahud give answers. Because though Jews are known for asking tough questions, on this issue, as a collective they are far too silent."

  • 'Most-read' article at Washington Post calls Israel 'savage, unrepairable society'
    • @Danaa - you are the wave of truth for the future. You are the important voice, an ex-Israeli Jew willing to speak the truth, not only about the apalling actions and mindset of Israeli Jews, but also about the guilt of American Jews in their kvetching and avoidance of facing thier own actions supporting and enabling the racist state.

      Phil Weiss and editors of Mondoweiss,

      Please invite Danaa to repackage and expand upon the above comment and then post it as an article. You will have another 500+ comment article, a meaty one that people on Mondoweiss want to comment and discuss. I know, it doesn't really follow with your agenda of presenting Jews as endless Social Justice Warriors, but it is truthful. Do you care about the truth, or is it all about perception?

      Frankie P

  • Why do Jewish legislators carry more weight on Iran Deal?
    • Let's keep it going, Phil. Let's not stop with the first question.

      Why do Jewish I/P activists carry more weight?

      Why are Jewish I/P activists more able to identify and define anti-semitism?

      Looking forward to the answers!!

      Frankie P

  • Jewish community is Humpty Dumpty-- it won't come back together again, and shouldn't
  • For the high holidays, Bernie should bring his presidential campaign to Tzedek Chicago
    • Gee, I sure hope Max Blumenthal delivers a confession first to the German people for the anti-gentile transgression he made against them, labeling them, on Mondoweiss no less, "a sick society."

  • Roundtable on the Palestinian solidarity movement and Alison Weir
    • @W.Jones,

      My mention of Phil's anti-gentilism is not framed by or limited to the context of the Alison Weir scandal.

      Frankie P

    • Dear Adam, Phil and JVP,

      I am writing to forgive you for your anti-gentilism. I understand that this facet of your psychological make-up is not deliberate or chosen by you; it is the result of your upbringing, the myths you have heard, and a constant drumming into your heads from your tribe. I only ask that you consider that you may have a component of anti-gentilism in your heart and psyche, and try to make adjustments and start on the long road to wellness. I imagine that Alison Weir, someone who has been directly affected by your anti-gentilism, would also forgive you.

      I greatly admire the work you do to relieve the oppression of the Palestinians, but until you deal with this problem, I fear for the overall outcome. You seem to want to control the discussion, and open and honest discussion among ALL concerned parties, including the US population of EVERY stripe, is the only way forward in hope for a just resolution of the I/P conflict. The misguided belief that you can ignore and forbid discussion of Jewish people, Jewish religion, and Jewishness while trying to solve the problem of Israel/Palestine is ridiculous, wearing very thin, and perhaps it should be discarded.

      Frankie P

  • Rightwing Israeli violence on the rise as leader calls for arson attacks on churches
  • Pelosi says Iran deal has the votes, and Podhoretz urges Israel to attack Iran
    • So Krauss, you agree with part of the Pud's statement, but you don't say if Iran getting the bomb is such a catastrophe. Is it? I don't think so. Iran would NEVER use a nuclear weapon against Israel. Let's be honest. Israel (and the Pud) wants to prevent Iran from achieving nuclear deterrence. Israel (and the Pud) also wants to prevent Iran from getting its unlocked money and higher growth in the next ten years. Israel (and the Pud) also wants to prevent Iran from shrinking its military distance to Israel. You mention these issues, but do you also want to prevent these things? I am curious. Do you too feel that those "crazy mullahs" can't be trusted? I feel that a strong Iran will be a good in the world.
      Frankie P

  • Morgan Freeman, Valerie Plame and Queen Noor say Iran deal will prevent nuclear war that will melt Jack Black's frisbee
    • @Keith,

      You aren't the odd man out. My reaction to this video matches yours; it is a dumbed-down plea that puts a millimeter-thin layer of sugar icing on a meter-thick cake made of dog-doo. The "good progressives" in the video, and I don't think all of the participants fit this description, would like to continue the narrative of "America is good and just" and "Iran (and those who refuse to bow to the global hegemon) is evil". This video was made for consumption by fast-food addicts who aren't ready for the caviar of truth.

      I disagree with you that the Iranian elites have sold out their country. They are passing time, which is firmly standing on their side and not on the side of the US, keeping their country safe.

      Keep commenting, Keith. You are on track. Keep challenging the chorus of the veracity-challenged.

      Frankie P

  • 'We are doing you people a favor by allowing you to be seated here,' Netanyahu deputy tells Palestinians in Knesset
    • Roland Nickles,

      Thank you for this article. It is brief, accurate, and displays information that proves that Israel is most certainly NOT a democracy with equal rights for all of its citizens. This and articles like it (David Fincham's wonderful "Understanding the Jewish National Home" from April) are necessary and important in the ongoing education of people, especially Americans, who are woefully ignorant about the facts regarding the history and current situation in Israel. These articles are factual and not polemical, the writers patiently lay out facts without allowing in emotion, which seems to prevail as it clouds the waters in the debate and discussion of I/P.

      More, please.

      Frankie P.

  • BDS could cost Israel $4.7 billion a year
    • Double Standard:

      "I think this is just the Wizard of Oz yelling — it seems all powerful because it wins media attention disproportionate to its numbers, but yank away the curtain and its just one weak fraud."

      I wonder why Uncle Sheldon, Haim the shame, and Nutty Netanyahu spook so easily; they are rich powerful spin meisters, chosen leaders of the world of economics and politics, why would they be so upset and scared of a weak fraud hiding behind a curtain.

      More cognative dissonance from the Zionist corner, something we've come to expect.

      Frankie P

  • Video: Israeli soldiers violently attack unarmed Palestinian man
    • catalan, no need to worry. those soldiers have effectively lost their humanity. and yet you still support them and their progressively inhuman state while they claim to represent you as a jew. doesn't that rankle, even a little?

    • catalan:

      "I don’t know what you mean by fellow travelers. Bulgarian accountants in New Mexico who like to read philosophy and history and play with their sons?"

      "The behavior of the soldiers in this video makes me sad and ashamed."

      I'm having problems integrating the preceding two statements. Why would the Bulgarian accountant who distances himself from Zionism and its supporters in the first statement feel ashamed by the hideous actions of IDF stormtroopers?

      The cognative dissonance that you display is so massive that you are unable to see it yourself.

      Frankie P

  • Once again, 'NYT' fails to tell its readers that many Jews support BDS
    • @SQ Debris: It's curious; it's unclear who authored the JVP letter, but in a membership organization we would think that the members would be involved, informed, invited to debate such action; instead it was done in classic night-flower AIPAC fashion. Methinks there has been some infiltration into JVP of voices that pay lip-service to peace while they carry out the usual ethnocentric defense campaigning. Ms. Weir mentions no names, but I'll quote her:

      "I finally decided to write an article about this situation – “Please help us overcome the accusations against If Americans Knew,” but did not name JVP, in the hope of preventing damaging division and distraction in the movement for justice in Palestine.
      Before publishing this piece, I tried to clarify the situation with JVP, and emailed the national leaders asking about their statements about me. I hoped that by communicating with JVP directly the situation could be resolved. In reply I received a letter from a law firm on JVP’s behalf (a partner in the firm is the JVP board chair and was the signatory on the letter).
      I was surprised at the McCarthyist, guilt-through-association attacks this letter contained, and I was amazed at the great effort someone had made to monitor my every move over the past 14 years of hundreds of speeches, articles, and interviews.
      JVP sent their accusatory dossier on me to about 50 chapters around the country, and has been disseminating this and other accusations widely. I’ve just finished an extremely busy three-week speaking tour. In several locations I learned that JVP had tried to block my talks. Fortunately, they failed in almost all locations and my presentations were received extremely well; one audience even gave me a standing ovation.
      By the way, although JVP is a membership organization, there is no indication that the general JVP membership was informed or involved in these actions."

      You can read Ms. Weir's entire article and point by point rebuttal at the Unz Review.

      Frankie P

    • "consider that Jewish Voice for Peace– one of the main groups spearheading BDS– is skyrocketing in membership. "

      Unfortunately, it seems that this skyrocketing of membership is accompanied by a McCarthyist attack on Allison Weir of If Americans Knew. I think that Ms. Weir is involved with activism that is mandatory for a peaceful solution to the I/P situation, namely the education and opening of the eyes of the American people to how their nation has been and is instrumental in the oppression of the Palestinian people. The low-class, guilt-by-association nature of this attack is reminiscent of how right-wing Zionists try to stifle the voices of the very writers and contributors of this website, Mondoweiss. Recall how Max B. was taken to task because his writing was posted on Duke's website. Now a quote from JVP in response to Ms. Weir's letter to try to understand their actions: "One of your articles appeared in an anthology that was promoted by the infamous Holocaust-denial organization, the Institute for Historical Review." Another quote: "You have been a repeat guest of white supremacist Clay Douglas on his hate radio show, the Free American." Allison's response: So has Jennifer Lowenstein and Ilan Pappe. It also seems that the JVP Executive sent out a secret letter to 40 JVP chapter heads across the USA, showing them the letter they sent to Ms. Weir and asking them not to work with her. Unfortunately for JVP, three of the chapter heads leaked the letter. What's going on here? Ms. Weir is no anti-semite. Her website features her own essays detailing why anti-semitism is wrong, and it also sports the following statement of principles: “We believe all people are endowed with inalienable human rights regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality, or nationality. We believe in justice, fairness, and compassion and in treating all human beings with respect, empathy, and in the manner in which we would wish to be treated.”

      Our friend Keith, a frequent poster, will be interested in one of the statements JVP made to Ms. Weir in response to her letter: “At Jewish Voice for Peace, we are particularly sensitive to the long history of anti-Jewish oppression”. Is there some discourse gatekeeping going on here, and if so, why?


  • The grotesque injustice of Obama's speech at the Washington synagogue
    • Actually, he did NOT pocket a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. He pocketed a Nobel Peace Prize for the expectations that people, including the idiots who decide who receives the prize, had for him. That is the world we live in. A world in which prizes are handed out to politicians in the hope that they will do something right.

  • 'United States of Israel' has compromised U.S. 'sovereignty' on Iran policy -- Gideon Levy in D.C.
    • @shalom,

      "The international BDS campaign will spawn an increasingly hostile resistance movement by Israelis and American Jews alike."

      The international BDS campaign will raise awareness among all Americans about I/P, which will spawn more fair and even-handed treatment in issues related to I/P and the Middle East. The continued resistance by American Jews to fair and even-handed treatment in issues related to I/P and the Middle East (Iran's nuclear energy comes to mind) will eventually cause a strong and profound reaction among gentile Ameicans. This reaction could be dangerous to many Jews who do NOT support Israel. I believe that Phil sees this as a real danger, and he wants to save the American Jews from themselves.

      Frankie P

    • @just, "the most impassioned and honest testimony by an Israeli~ maybe anybody~ that I have ever heard wrt P/I and America."

      you should watch some video from Israel Shahak from the 1990s. It's eerie how Levy's words mirror Shahak's conclusions from that time period. Of course Shahak delved deeper into the relationship between Jewish religion and the Zionist project, and I realize that this subject is taboo on Phil's site unless he brings it up. Therefore, I won't link to the Shahak videos; you can look them up on youtube.

      Frankie P

  • White House says Netanyahu offers no alternative but military action (and Liz Warren won't say if she's attending speech)
    • @Phil: "When Jan Schakowsky of Illinois announced that she was skipping the speech, she said, “As a Jew, support for Israel is in my DNA.” (I happen to disagree with that idea, but clearly there are more Jan Schakowsky’s in the Jewish community than people like me."

      Thank God there are people like you in the Jewish community, Phil Weiss!

  • Israel's new Asian allies
    • @Teapot,

      I have lived in Taiwan for over 25 years, and I concur with your observations about ethnic Chinese and their inability to grasp the western reverence for the Holocaust of European Jews as the ultimate in human suffering or injustice. As for the anti-semitism card, it will not be played here in East Asia, as it will have no effect at all. The East Asians have not had extensive historical dealings with Jews, and they are not suffering from the self-censorship that causes otherwise progressive westerners to hold their tongues when it comes to the crimes of the Jews of Israel and their supporters in western countries. For me, it's refreshing to hear ethnic Chinese talk openly about how they are able to discern that the democracies of the west, including the American Congress and many of the western European governments, are controlled by campaign funding from pro-Israel Jews who hold citizenship of their states but loyalty to a foreign state. They say this in an analytical and logical fashion; they smile when informed that such talk in the United States would provoke cries and accusations of Jew-hatred and anti-semitism. They ask then if that makes the facts any less true.

      This is the culture that gave the world Sun Tze's Art of War thousands of years ago. Mossad's motto was plagarized directly from Sun Tze. Nothing about the inhumanity of man to man surprises them.


    • @MRW

      Thanks for the great link to the speech by Chas Freeman. It's an excellent analysis of China and its policies toward Asia, including the Middle East. I've been here in Taiwan since well before Tiananmen, and I followed it closely, and NOWHERE have I seen anyone say that its purpose was to quell the uprising of Uighers. You are sorely mistaken on that point.


  • Netanyahu flips off Harry Truman
    • Professor Ed Rubin: "The reason is that Israel’s Prime Minister has chosen to inject himself into American politics as a supporter of the Republican Party and a lackey of Sheldon Adelson. He is thus acting in opposition to everything I believe in: social justice, environmental protection, and basic human rights."

      Please note the causality in the good professor's thinking. Netanyahu's injection of himself into American politics is an action against social justice, environmental protection, and basic human rights (the placement of the word "thus" offers no other possible conclusion). He has no complaint about years and years of Israel's dispossession and creeping ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. No comment about the Nakba, Cast Lead, Protective Edge, Pillar of Defense, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, and the other turkey shoots that the high-tech IOF has used against opponents weilding bottle rockets and their civilian cousins and neighbors. The good professor should take note of the fact that Israel has been gutting his country for many years, both internally and in the eyes of the rest of the world. Methinks the good professor is more worried about his own ass when the chickens come home to roost than any ideas of "social justice" and "basic human rights". After all, Netanyahu's Likud is NOT the first Israeli administration to flush both social justice and basic human rights for non-Jews down the toilet. Nor is it the first administration that has worked through American Jewish organizations to influence American politics. Perhaps he is outraged by Netanyahu's OVERT modus operandi as opposed to the behind the scenes night flower style of AIPAC.


  • Chair of Democratic National Committee opposes Jewish intermarriage and MSNBC showing Gaza carnage
    • @American, Annie,

      The old "programmed to hate Jews" argument is easy to defuse. My tactic is to agree with it in a twisted kind of way, just to show how ridiculous it is. Therefore, I chime in, deadpan serious, with, "Haven't you heard about the new surgical procedure developed in Taiwan? They are now able to disable the semiconductor responsible for anti-semitism in the brains of gentiles! I had the procedure done myself, so you need not worry about me. Come hide in my basement any time you feel threatened."

      Ridicule is the ONLY response for such an outrageous belief.

      Frankie P

  • Netanyahu speech could allow Obama to 'take on the Jewish lobby' as he took on Cuba lobby -- Indyk
    • Actually, Phil seems rather dismissive of people whose main interest is the national interest of the US. Just the language he uses to describe them is condescending: "national interest types". Look at the quote:

      "The only ones who want the speech are diehard neocons who seem to think this is the only way to get a war with Iran– and the left and national interest types, people who want the speech to come off so that America will have to watch as the Congress jumps up and down to give repeated standing ovations to a foreign prime minister who opposes our president, so that America will ask why?"

      I have a few questions. Of the three groups who Phil cites as wanting this speech to go down - namely diehard neocons, the left, and national interest types - which group is the largest in number? the most influential? the most likely to support actions in the US interest? the most supportive of continued blank check support from the US for Israeli intransigence?

      Next question: Is cooperation among two of these groups - the left and the "national interest types" possible on Middle foreign policy? For here lies the true potential for the dismantling of the apparatus that currenly exists in US politics to support the criminal actions of the State of Israel. And make no bones about it, all those "liberal Zionist" voices chiming in about the danger to the special relationship are really worrying about their ability and the ability of the American Jewish organizations that Sean lists so frequently to lobby and control this foreign policy.

      I post this comment under Hophmi's comment because his view of the US interest lies entirely in relation to the good of Israel, and this is the main problem that is facing the US: a cheering section of special interests who have conflated the interests of two separate nations in totally different circumstances and tried to present those interests as being the same.

      Hophmi: The US interest is both is maintaining an alliance with the only state in the region that shares any of our values, and in drawing on Israeli intelligence and security cooperation to fight terrorism in the Middle East and to deal with Iran.

      First: Israel, judging by its oppressive laws concerning non-Jews, murderous actions against an oppressed people that it holds in limbo, and total disregard for international law and opinion, DOES NOT share the values of the US. I agree that the US has slipped considerably in implementing the values traditionally held dear by many Americans, but that too can be attributed to the special interests mentioned above.

      Second, it seems that Israeli intelligence and security is currently cooperating with Sunni takfiri in Syria - the same that the US is fighting against. Netanyahu, in his desperation about the upcoming election, decided to bomb key Hezbollah and Iranian officers involved in the fighting against these takfiri. And we should draw on their cooperation? Please.

      Third and most ridiculous: dealing with Iran. This is the greatest example of the amusement park-like fantasy that passes for news and commentary in the US. The best way to deal with Iran is to leave them alone. Stop demonizing them, it's clear that they have no nuclear weapons program, and even if they do develop a nuclear weapon, (and I'm with Professor Chomsky on this one: by seeing the way that the US deals with weaker states, I'd be working hard on an effective deterrent, too.) they would never use it. How many nukes does Israel have? 200 - 350? Delivery systems? Israel certainly could turn the key cities of Iran into parking lots. No, it's all a facade, a house of cards.

      The American "liberal Zionists", a misnomer if ever I saw one, are afraid of more than the downgrading of the special relationship; they are worried that fingers will be pointed in their direction when the American people do actually wake up to how they have been used.


  • #JeSuisUnJuifBritannique
    • “I believe that Israel needs in Britain a strong, self-confident and independently minded Jewish community.”

      Yes, there it is, in the opening paragraph, right up there among Mr. Cohen's major beliefs, all of which, by the way, focus on what is good for "the Jews" of Britain, none of which show an ounce of concern for Britain as a nation or the "other" members of the British population. So, if this British Jew outlines his three beliefs, the third of which shows great concern for the needs of Israel, which is NOT his country (or is it?, Mr. Cohen, do you hold dual citizenship?), how could he be surprised when some Brits respond positively to the statement "Jews' loyalty to Israel makes them less loyal to Britain than other British people."?

      Makes you wonder if there is logic at play here.


  • Israel lobby stakes claim for Jerusalem at Supreme Court, but Kagan isn't buying
    • @MRW

      Just to let you know that here in Taiwan, an American citizen's parents can choose what to put on the US passport. I opted for "Taiwan", and I don't think it will cause my dual-national (US / ROC) children problems when and if they visit China. I believe that Taiwan, China was an option as well, but our politics don't run that way!

      Frankie P

  • British Parliament votes overwhelmingly to recognize Palestinian state
    • He's not just gulping Ziocaine, he must also be guzzling Sinocaine, because if it has been British policy to recognize a state when the territory in quesiton has a government, an army, and military capability, Britain would have recognized Taiwan as an independent country by now.

  • Andrew Sullivan should stop giving a pass to Sam Harris and Bill Maher's bigotry
  • Read the genocidal sermon a notable Atlanta rabbi gave this Rosh Hashanah
    • Mooser,

      I am under the impression that a religious congregation goes well beyond who owns the deed for the building in which they meet. I do not know how Jewish religious or quasi-religious institutions are set up. I know that if I enter a religious institution and hear speech from officials that seems unethical or inaccurate, I don't go back again. I understand that some people have a stronger need for a feeling of community among their co-religionists. I do not feel this need, and it has kept me from any regular attendance in any religious group. I enter Buddhist temples, Taoist temples, and Christian churches from time to time. The last time I entered a Christian church was for a Thanksgiving celebration that included an abbreviated religious service followed by a pot-luck dinner. I should mention that I live in Taiwan, and the service was part of a bilingual Christian church organization and was held in English. The pastor, or minister (an American), read something from the Bible and then gave an informal explanation, what they called a "homily" in the Catholic Church of my youth. I was shocked and appalled as he described the Pilgrims and the first Thanksgiving, living among the American Indians who "did not know God". Now I have read a bit about the Native Americans, and they DID KNOW God, and they had a more organic and natural relationship with God than most Christians I know. Although I enjoyed the dinner and the company of some nice people that evening, I was unable to go back to that church again. If I were a congregant in Etz Chaim, I would have to do the same and never return. Conversely, if being a member of the congregation were a high priority for me, I would try to take action to have the Rabbi expelled. What if I had been a congregant longer than the Rabbi had held a position in the synagogue. Who is coming into whose house here?

      Frankie P

    • @notawingnut,

      I agree that Rabbi Lewis' view may not be representative of the views of the congregants in your synagogue. However, as he is a Rabbi in your synagogue, he DOES represent it, and he is painting you and your fellow congregants with the same brush of intolerance and hatred that he wields in his daily life and thinking. Therefore, you are faced with choices: you may remain in the congregation, say nothing, and allow this monster to continue to represent your synagogue. You may take action among the congregants to expel Rabbi Hatred and show him and the world that you don't buy his intolerance. You may leave the congregation of this synagogue as a protest. Quoting your constitution, which states that everyone is free to espress thier opinions does NOT distance you from the vile rantings of the officials of your institution. Imagine a Westboro Baptist congregant complaining that old Pastor Hate does not represent his views; would you not shake your head and chuckle? Make your choice; it is your choice to make.

      Frankie P

    • Page: 1
  • Champaign-Urbana holds Rosh Hashanah service for Professor Salaita
  • Six arrested in civil disobedience at Federation offices in Philly
    • Did these following two paragraphs strike anyone else as being a bit problematic, or is it just me? Dan? Benny, am I whispering again, or is there some cognative dissonance going on here?

      "Many years ago after I gave a talk on Jewish sexuality at a synagogue in Montgomery County, a woman asked a question that has remained with me all these years. “I don’t care who you sleep with,”she said. “That’s none of my business. But how can you as a rabbi support the Palestinians?”

      I assume she would ask me the same question today, with even greater urgency: how can you as a rabbi belong to Jewish Voice for Peace, how can you support the Palestinian boycott, divestment and sanction movement, and especially how can you praise these protesters who criticize Israel at this time of crisis? Don’t you know we are alone? Don’t you know they want to destroy us?"

      Dear Rabbi Rebecca Alpert,
      So you gave a talk on "Jewish sexuality" at a synogogue. Mooser always says that there is no organization to Judiasm, it's made up of the whole spectrum of humanity: the brightest, the dregs, the peacemakers, the war-mongers, and I believe him. How then, can the sexuality of Jews be differentiated from the sexuality of the rest of humanity, a group that also includes the usual suspects that I listed above. I have heard many speeches about human sexuality, but not so many about tribal sexuality. You, dear Rabbi, wonder how this woman could wail about she, you, and your fellow tribalists being alone and the rest of the world (okay maybe she was being more specific and meant the Palestinians, oh! sorry, she wouldn't utter that word, it might imply that the Palestinians were a people who had a territorial claim, I mean the ARABS!) wanting to destroy the whole lot of you. And yet, your speech, on "Jewish sexuality" - is it not designed to separate those good Montgomery County Jews from the rest of humanity in the most fundamental sense? That such day-to-day, routine activities (well, when I was younger it was daily and routine, the equipment isn't as cooperative these days) as sexual relations must be dissected according to tribal issues is saddening to me, and it appears to just harden the concepts that "we are different, alone, apart, under attack."


  • How the Israeli discourse on terrorism seeks to justify blatant war crimes
    • @jon s

      Since you posted this question on an open comments thread, I will respond, even though I am NOT a Mondoweiss editor or staff member.

      I support the right of Hamas and all Palestinians to resist the Israeli oppression and occupation of their lands.

      Now we all know what jon s means when he says "goals and methods", so let's steal his thunder and address his complaints pre-emptively. First, jon s sees Hamas' "goals" as the destruction of world Jewry, wherever they are!, because, damn it, that's what it says in that outdated and subsequently superseded Hamas charter. The talking points of hasbara say we must focus only on the Hamas charter, and ignore all later official statements and offers for long-term truces from the leadership of Hamas. Hammer the charter!!! will be our slogan!!! Ignore the fact that Hamas would gladly follow the will of the Palestinian population as a whole if they wanted to accept a reasonable offer of peace from Israel. Hammer the charter.

      Now, the methods. Jon s wants the methods to be framed as follows: Hamas shoots rockets into Israel, with the sole intention of killing civilians; Israel, of course, must retaliate. Hamas digs tunnels into Israel, with the sole intention of killing civilians (specifically, they dig the tunnels to find kindergartens.) More hasbara that needs to be demolished. In fact, the Hamas rockets are the retaliation, not the original action. In addition, Hamas KNOWS full well that their rockets are inaccurate and will cause little or no civilian death. The rockets are a statement: you are killing us, and we shall do what we can to scare and inconvenience you, shake things up a bit. As for the tunnels, well let's look at the results. Hamas has killed many Israeli soldiers by gaining entrance to Israel from the tunnels, and from ambushing Israeli soldiers who dare to enter the tunnels. I haven't read much about them attacking civilians, because Hamas has NOT attacked civilians from the tunnels.

      The Warring Scorecard from the latest and ongoing mowing of the lawn is revealing: Dead Palestinians: approximately 75% civilian. Dead Israelis: approximately 95% soldiers.

      Now, jon s, the ball is in your court.

      Do you support Israel? I'm referring to both goals and methods.


    • @Ramzi Jaber,

      Thanks for that injection of optimism in the midst of the horrible massacres going on in Gaza. May the world continue to close in on these criminals until breathing becomes difficult for them and they are forced to face up to their crimes, make amends to the Palestinians, and start serving their sentence.


  • Gaza war gives rise to new Jewish group targeting Jewish institutions that support occupation
    • @Donald "J Street, as I recall, showed its true colors fairly soon. Or the leadership did. I vaguely recall reading (maybe at this blog) that some of the rank and file were not in line with the leaders, but if I were them, I would move on to some other group, Jewish or not, if I cared about the Palestinians."

      Well Donald, if the old quick display of true colors is accurate, why did it take so long for these two to jump ship. (see quote below from article) @Dan Crowther, you Sir, are certainly not an asshole, although your sarcasm at being considered one on this site for expressing your reservations evokes a broad smile. There is an inconvenient fact here that people don't talk about, perhaps because we are not allowed to talk about it on this website. Thou shalt not equate Jewishness and Jewish political identity with Zionism (unless you're a Zionist Israeli or supporter), thou shalt not question or comment on Jewish identity politics in any way; what a conundrum, since Zionism and all its trappings grew out of Jewish identity politics, and Zionism is supported blindly by the vast majority of Jews in the diaspora. These groups, from the list that Dan Crowther provided to a whole host of others, are gatekeepers of the discourse. They allow criticism of Israel, they criticize Israel, they allow criticism of rich, powerful American Jews who are "dual loyalists" (I put that in quotes because they really only have ONE loyalty, and it isn't to the US.), they even criticize old Shelly Adelson and his ilk. However, even Phil and some of the most ardent anti-Zionist Jews on this site refuse to address and admit the fact that they act in many ways out of a concern and worry that all of this BFM (big fucking mess) in the Middle East may end up with a boomerang that will smack Jewry as a whole in the US. And it may; it has worked that way for centuries, why would it change now? Has human nature changed?


      "J Street, as I recall, showed its true colors fairly soon. Or the leadership did. I vaguely recall reading (maybe at this blog) that some of the rank and file were not in line with the leaders, but if I were them, I would move on to some other group, Jewish or not, if I cared about the Palestinians."

      "Carinne Luck, who joined J Street before its launch in 2007 and left in 2012, when she was the group’s vice president of field and campaigns, and Daniel May, director of J Street U, the group’s university arm, from 2010 through 2013."

  • Israel, your brand is tanking
    • Hophmi is a wonderful example of the moral depravity of Israel and its right-or-wrong supporters, especially those in the Israel lobby. You see, they have no interest in asking a fundamental question that many, if not most people, ask before they take action, while acting, and when analyzing their own past actions. That question is: Is what we are doing ethical / moral / right? Is what we did ethical / moral / right? No, there is no interest in addressing this basic issue that should inform all human activity. Instead, their sole interest lies in the analysis, manipulation and manufacturing of the perception of others of their past, ongoing and planned actions. This is a sickness, for it is an admission that they are aware of the moral bankrupcy of their actions, but have no plans to make amends, nor more importantly to make changes. This is a form of collective mental illness.


  • 'Dear American Jewish community, It's time to talk about Zionism'
    • "Dear American Jewish community, it’s time to talk! And talk, and talk, and talk. Because the more we talk, the more we try to give the impression that Zionism answers to Jews, and can be persuaded, the more space and time Zionism buys."

      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      We're American Jews, we know what those in Israel do, let's
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      We need to talk, just you and us, lots of room on our little Jewish bus, let's
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      They're committing genocide, but hey, we're all in the same damn tribe, let's
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      The only issue we agree, is beware when the goys come for you and me, let's
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,
      Talk, talk, wring, wring hands,


      Your use of humor to highlight ridiculous reality is heart-warming, and there is no sarcasm intended here. The farcical nature of this essay by Benjamin Silverman is too much to face.

      "When we have argued for human rights and international law, we have been ostracized and excluded from all aspects of mainstream Jewish life. When we have argued against an exclusionary, segregationist regime, we have been attacked with the most vicious of slanders; “self-hating Jews,” “Nazi collaborators,” and worse. When we have tried to stand up against colonialist violence and occupations, we have been met with angry rejection from our closest friends and family."

      So, what's new Ben? What has changed? Do you think that your plea to Israel right or wrong Zionist American Jews, by far the majority of American Jewry, is going to elicit an invitation to dialog? Shouldn't your plea be directed to Americans as a whole, who could have a real effect in taming the monster Israel?


  • Renouncing my Israeli citizenship
    • @jrfinkel,

      "Rabid racism, which was always present but considered too impolite for general public discourse, is now open, common, and prominent. What was once said behind close doors (“Kill the Arabs”) is now shouted in the streets and in the Knesset."

      And where were the progressive/left/sane Jews, and what was their reaction when they were exposed to the rabid racism and the behind-doors calls for genodice of the Arabs? And how could those Jews be considered progressive, left, or sane if they allowed that behavior to go on unchallenged? I grew up in the US, a country that has seen and continues to see much racism, but if I had been exposed to calls for the genocide of blacks, native-Americans, or any other race in my youth I would have spoken out strongly against whoever expressed such racist ideas. As a matter of fact, nearly all my friends and families, progressive, conservative, anarchist, or Martian, would have done the same. Sick country you speak of, Sir.


  • Israeli strike kills four Palestinian children playing soccer on Gaza beach
    • @daniel rich,

      tokyo ben doesn't live in tokyo.


      As you said before, we make our choices what to focus on. As you also said, you've chosen to try to sniff out any hint of anti-semitism in the comments section of mondoweiss rather than focus on the ongoing extermination of the Palestinians in Gaza. I agree; that's your choice - knock yourself out. Don't be surprised, however, if you find that your choice is upsetting Mooser; I know that it burns me up to see people like you focusing on what you consider traces of anti-semitism in the MW comments section in the midst of serious Israeli war crimes and ongoing ethnic cleansing. So excuse me if your "enormous human empathy for the people of Gaza and Palestinians" seems to me a bit insincere in light of the fact that since the beginning of this round of the every-two-year Israeli Gaza turkey shoot your comments at MW have focused more on anti-semitism than on the plight of the dying Palestinians. You build your own image, even if you are blind to that fact.


  • 'American Jewish voices are most critical in the world' (to end idea that Jewish lives matter more)
    • @yonah fredman

      "I was born Jewish, so I root Jewish. It is my side against your side. I value my side; you value your side. That's how war works."

      Yonah, yonah, you are drawing lines placing Jews on one side and the rest of the world on the other side. I'll try to break it to you gently. The odds will be stacked against the Jews, and you will lose the war. Try being a human, and try to see this I/P conflict through the lens of a human, not as an Israeli, and certainly not as a Jew, for the country known as Israel does NOT represent global Jewry. The best thing for Jewish humans in the so-called diaspora (hate that term) would be to cut themselves free of an identity that is based on a state that they see as an insurance plan in the Middle East, just in case the goys go anti-semite again.


    • "American voices – and especially Jewish American ones – are probably the most critical voices in the world right now."

      Dear Eran Efrati and JVP,

      If you are counting on Jewish American voices to stop this genocide, you will be sorely disappointed. American Jews are not a collective, but the majority are firm supporters of Israel, right or wrong. If we examine the American Jews with big money and big power, we find that they are even more extreme than Netanyahu (Please don't call him, Bibi, it makes him sound like a human chihuahua, and he is neither a chihuahua nor human). JVP is a tiny voice of reason in a shouting contenst of hate and deception - hatred of the Arabs, and deception by the Mainstream Media in the US. You need to call upon HUMAN voices everywhere, especially non-Jewish voices, to stop this murder. Yes, Jewish voices are important! However, we see how the machine works to delegitimize Jewish voices who criticize Israel, we see how the "self-hating" smear works as well on Jews as the "anti-Semite" smear works on gentiles. Your acknowledgement that the crisis in I/P stems from the belief that Jewish lives are worth more than Palestinian lives is an important first step, but you have to follow it up with a call to all humans, telling them that their voices are as important as, or more important than Jewish voices. It's time that this ongoing crime is taken out of the hands of what you call "the most critical voices in the world" and put in the hands of more responsible humans who don't have an ethnic interest in the conflict. Otherwise, you end up looking like gatekeepers, trying to keep things in the community. You should be Human Voice for Peace.


  • Beating of Florida teen in Jerusalem is getting attention in U.S.
    • @abierno

      This transcends the verbs “to kill” or “to burn”. "

      Let's try nouns then. He was a human conflagration, a human holocaust.


  • Fear of anti-semitism accusation did not stop Presbyterians from witnessing occupation
    • Could it be a new Hasbara strategy? Take the name of a well-known, well-respected Palestine solidarity activist who does brilliant research and writes excellent articles for Mondoweiss (sorry Phan Nguyen if I'm laying it on too thick, but it's true!), change a few letters in the first name, and voila, a new commenter appears to defend the apartheid state and attack the regulars here, perhaps leaving some wondering if it really is that P. Nguyen. Well, I'm here to tell you that it ain't! As to whether it is or isn't a new strategy, well I'm sure most of the folks here wouldn't be surprised in the least...

      Frankie P.

  • Public debate on Zionism sets a crucial precedent
    • Max B.:
      “You’ve seen what happened here. Israel wasn’t destroyed. Nothing scary happened. We had a talk, we had a chat, and that was it. I don’t know what people are so afraid of.”

      Frankie P.: I do, Max. They are afraid of the truth.

  • The U.S. continues to appease Narendra Modi
    • The Indian people are looking for economic recovery; it's simple. They voted for the candidate they believed would take the correct actions to bring back the kind of economic growth they expect. The US is tickled pink that Mori is in power; he, like Abe in Japan, will be an important partner in the US's planned Asian containment of surging China. Therefore, Krauss is right and he's wrong. Krauss' framing makes it appear that the Indian people voted for Mori because he presided over a pogrom. They did not, and he, by the way, he did NOT preside over a pogrom. At the same time, Krauss joins North in ignoring geo-political trends, shifts in power, and alliances. This is a common illness among people in the west, especially Americans.

      Frankie P

  • 'Today at 0800, Israeli bulldozers came to the fertile valley where we planted fruit trees--'
    • Er, you guys are only telling one side of the story. Those apricot trees threw pits at settlers passing by; we had to destroy them. Those pits really hurt; they can send a full-grown IDF coward to the hospital with a concussion if there's a direct hit. The apple trees had also taught their seedlings jew-hatred and we just couldn't let them grow up to be suicide apple pies. Really, you shouldn't post things like this without some kind of balance to the story...

      Frankie P

  • From Portland to Portland, and Amman to Lahore, 'NYT' letter-writers are sharper than 'NYT' writers
    • @James North,

      And you and Phil play right into their bullshit, effectively condoning and seconding their argument, by feeling the need to include disclaimer sentences like the one in Don's quote above. Advocates of justice for Palestine, be they Gentile or Jew, do not need to produce Jewish or Philo-Semitic bona fides to refute the lies of Hasbarists, who day by day dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole of lies that becomes easier and easier for the common people to discern and ridicule. This routine action of the part of MW leaves one with the unpleasant feeling that the site considers the views of Jews more important than those of Gentiles.


  • Boteach stops reporter from videotaping Columbia University debate
    • @yonah fredman,

      The fact that you would call your comment "humor" is a stinging indictment of yourself. That you would joke about calling someone an anti-semite, unfortunately one of the most serious accusations in modern Western civilization, a denunciation that has ruined countless careers and even lives, shows that you really don't see traditional anti-semitism as a threat to Jews, but rather a weapon to use against those who oppose the ideology of Zionism and any who would call for a curbing of the crimes and opression perpetrated by Israel. I have seen calls by other commenters on this site for legal action to be brought against those who frivolously use this charge, and I'm beginning to think that they are correct. For what defense can one have to being called a hater?


    • @tokyobk, I'm sorry for mixing your name up, even though you kind of like the name. I admire your offer to set up an open, taped discussion between Boteach and Weiss, and I would love to watch it.

      @tree, thanks for correcting my egregious mistake, mixing up Shmully Hecht with Boteach. It is certainly a sign of the decline of mental faculties that comes with age.

      @yonah fredman, although I agree that it's pretty bad to mix up two different Rabbis, even if they share a first name, is that a sign of anti-semitism, as you seem to be implying? I'll leave it up to the moderators and other commenters on the site. You have already given your opinion, but to be honest, having read many earlier comments, the accusation of anti-semitism from you and your ilk carries very little weight with me. It is a knee-jerk reaction to delegitimize critics of a) Israel and b) a segment of organized American Jewry that is more loyal to Israel than to their country. As far as your comment implying anti-Shmuelism, there is an articulate commenter on MW named Shmuel; he is Israeli, Jewish, well-educated and informed about the I/P conflict, and he and his views, while not always the same as my own, look very different to me from the other two Shmuels I confused.


    • Not quite the kind of reception he gave you at Tokyo Ben King's brownstone, was it Phil? But then, that was at a time when slick Shmuely thought he could still redeem your eternal Jewish soul with a bucket of red wine and a reference to your "real" name. I wonder if he was calling you that name during this event.

      Frankie P

  • A Jewish Christmas message to the unsaved world
    • @Walid,

      "He has since edited his piece to make it somewhat a bit “softer”."

      Telling, isn't it?


    • @MHughes,

      Yes, Professor Ellis' new missive, like so many of his other writings, seem to shine more light on his own prejudice and bias than on those he attacks - in most cases Christians. This last article is all over the road - a few lines about the Pope's message morph into Handel's Messiah, the corruption of the world, and then ultimately, the weird, the wonderful, the "prophetic", as if Ellis' "prophetic" is going to cure the "world of dislocation and death." Christians, in Ellis' demented view, can be distilled to their essence, and his description of every component of that essence drips with contempt: "Handel’s Messiah" "anti-Jewish content" "covered with blood" among "the endless Merry Christmas greetings", a "process theology gloss" driving through "the intersection of American Department Store Christianity and Christmas Tree Lighting Bethlehem Christianity" that results in a terrible accident that will "send you into Christian shock therapy".

      So, Dr. Ellis, if you would like to take "a more sober approach" without all the gobledygook spilling out of your view of Christianity, maybe you should watch Charlie Brown's Christmas one more time, and maybe you'll see how some people who are Christians are looking for their prophetic voice and innocence, hoping that they can find salvation and redeem the world. Remember, these are individuals, searching like you are for a better way; they are NOT all parts of some monolithic "church" that strives to "assimilate to power". Some of them might even be prophets.


  • The woman on the plane
    • Phil:
      “A friend of mine explained this place a long time ago. Everyone in Israel is orthodox Jewish,” she said. “And I agree with that.”
      “Orthodox religious?”
      “No. Orthodox Jewish. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be there. They believe strictly in Judaism. It goes beyond religion.”

      I don't know why you give these supporters of Gilad Atzmon thought an outlet for their ideas when you have banned the man himself. This is classic!

      Frankie P

  • Echoing Netanyahu, Ted Cruz slams Kerry and calls on Iran to recognize Israel as 'Jewish state'
    • @American,

      I'm wondering if you are aware of IMF forecasts that say that India, which you call a "lesser", will have the largest population of middle class consumers in the world by the year 2030. If you believe that consumer markets rule global commerce, you must also believe that the world in 20 years time will be a very different one from the one we live in today. For in 20 years time, Indonesia will have more middle class consumers than the US. That's not saying that the number of US middle class consumers will decrease; indeed, it will be the increase in Indonesian middle class consumers that will be responsible. Additionally, the Indonesian middle class consumers will be at the bottom of the range what is considered by the IMF as "middle class", disposable income of approximately US$10 - 100 per day, while the US will still be in the higher ranges. That said, imagine the implications of the global shift in power from Europe and the US to Asia. Mind boggling.

  • Join Mondoweiss on Facebook
    • I thank you, Annie Robbins.


    • Shoutout to danaa, MRW, and whoever else has availed themselves of the blog, can't for the life of me remember its name, that covers related issues that may infringe on comments rules of mondoweiss. Please reply with the name, and I thank you in advance for your help.


  • De Blasio is hawkish on Iran, and his bundler funds Israeli army
    • Yes, hophmi, we all realize that driving automobiles is like a gateway drug. Today, you're driving cars, tomorrow you are gaining nuclear weapons.


  • Roger Waters says Israel's wall is '100 times more horrifying' than Berlin wall
    • @Ludwig

      Israel puts the Star of David on airplanes, bombs, and tanks that bomb innocent Palestinians. How can it get away with that? I am shocked and apalled. Airplanes dropping dollar signs can't compare with airplanes dropping massive munitions on civilians. I listen to Roger Waters and will continue to do so.


  • Major 'NYT' piece calls two-state negotiations 'phony'--and catastrophic
    • Ramzi,

      You write English very well, and your posts are meaningful, coherent, and full of useful information. That said, you need an intensive course in sarcasm. Don't you read the comments of others here? Shmuel has commented on MW for years, and I have seen your comments here for some time. Do you actually think that Shmuel, with his long history of balanced, humanitarian commenting, could hold views like the ones he pillories in that sarcastic comment about your name? Not a racist bone in the man's body, and we should all admit that doing away with those nasty racist bones is a life-long effort.


  • Our indigenous preoccupation
    • @Danaa,

      Your commentary is accurate like a laser, but I must point out that it distracts Prof. Ellis, who seems to believe that enough introspective preoccupation with his Jewish navel will result in the extraction of the Jewish prophetic from said belly-button.


  • Yom Kippur's ancient extremity
    • I'm with Shmuel. The whole idea of an individual declaring himself "______ of Conscience" leaves a rancid taste in my mouth. It's a cop-out, an exclusionary tactic designed to place the speaker in an exalted position where he can analyze and criticize the minions below. Talk to me like I'm human, Prof. Ellis.


  • National Security Agency gives data on Americans to the Israeli government
    • Another red line has been crossed. I am left wondering how many more red lines need to be crossed before the US public bombs Washington.


  • Helen Thomas dies
    • @Annie,

      "even at the announcement of her death you can’t leave it alone. they’ll be no place free of your ptv today for those of us who really liked her."

      Classic. Annie, I really love your comments, even though I have criticized you in the past for gatekeeping. You are a class act. Keep it up. I wanted to say that to you a long time ago, but better late than never I guess.


      '“The Jews” should be anywhere they want to be as long as it is in equality and with respect to others living there.'

      So in other words, HT was right. They should get the hell out of Palestine, because they have surely demonstrated since 1948 that they are unable to live in equality and respect to the indiginous population there.

      "I think Jews moving legally to Palestine and setting up strong social and business networks to protect themselves and their interests, cultural centers, synagogues would have been and should be fine."

      Speak the truth man! What you mean to say is "I think Jews moving legally to the US and Britain and setting up ethnocentrist business networks to generate great wealth to influence foreign policy to protect the runt state of Israel is fine."


      "I think that she said something really stupid that goes to the heart of why some Jews think we need and army."

      I know I'm being presumptuous, and I will understand if you choose not to answer this question, but I seem to recall that you are an American, part Japanese ancestry, living in Boston, hobnobbing with the likes of Boteach. I know that you are also part (perhaps half) Jewish. Do you have Israeli citizenship? How do you reconcile your use of "we" in this quote, "we need an army." I know you will state that your preface "some Jews believe" does not mean that you believe, but really, does worldwide Jewry need an army? Would you join the global Jewish army? I think that you should inform your Jewish friends who believe that "we" need an army that without the massive support of non-Jews, their army would be pretty skimpy. Additionally, non-Israeli Jews who joined said "Jewish army" would unleash a strong anti-Jewish reaction in the countries in which they live, don't you think? tokyobk, I think you should make aliyah and join the IDF.


  • 'Arabs, this way'
  • 'I was not a party to, and never will be, to the planting of trees on expropriated and stolen land': Former South African Ambassador to Israel rejects JNF trees planted in his name
    • @alfa,

      One listen to that quavering, internalized Arabic-sounding sax line brought me to the conclusion that it is, indeed, Gilad Atzmon. A visit to the production notes and then credits for the film's website confirmed my suspicions. Original music: Gilad Atzmon and Desert Rose.


  • Weiner should be 'hounded' for his support for apartheid
    • @annie,

      Unfortunately, for all your desire to act as the ultimate gatekeeper of opinions: "so i won’t let you do it.", the fact is that frankier is accurate in his opinion

      The Jewish community, collectively, supports apartheid, either by inaction or positive action directed at the removal of the Palestinians from the West Bank and East Jerusalem and send them to Jordan.

      YOU are also correct in your predicated opinion:

      The american community, collectively, supports apartheid, either by inaction or positive action directed at the removal of the Palestinians from the West Bank and East Jerusalem and send them to Jordan.

      So now where do we go?


  • An interview with Ben Ehrenreich, author of 'extraordinary' Nabi Saleh piece in 'NYT Magazine'
    • "Q. Are you telling me that the only interview you did was with that Chicago radio station?
      The only interview I did was that one radio station.
      Q. Why do you think that is?
      I don’t know. There’s obviously been a great deal of hesitation among editors and producers to grapple with this issue at all. They did have a news hook: Obama was in the West Bank.
      Q. Did this surprise you?
      Not terribly."

      Neither Ben E. nor Phil W. care to delve too deeply into the answers to these questions. Ben mentions the hesitation of editors to grapple with the issue, but neglects to address why editors hesitate, and what the consequences of such grappling could mean to their careers. He says it doesn't surprise him, but doesn't mention why it doesn't surprise him; I would think many media outlets, if independent and searching for true news stories about a volatile region, would be lining up to interview Ben. Oh, what's that you say? They are not independent and searching for true stories of human Palestinians?

      Ben, you wrote this, and in my eyes, it alone makes you a hero and a rare truth searcher: '["Zionism is the problem"] in which I argued that a principled opposition to Zionism had been a mainstream stance within Judaism for most of the twentieth century and in which I made the case for an ethical, Jewish critique of Zionism.'

      Turn your laser eye now to the American scene, and search for the truth about why the American people are not often permitted to see the kind of truth in your article for the NYT Magazine.


  • Celebrating Israel's birthday, '2 luminary philosophers' to explore whether Zionism and liberalism are 'complementary identities'
    • @Sibiriak,

      Please note that I do NOT condone or recommend that the future Palestinian state seek revenge or retribution for the wrongs perpetrated, shot, beaten, and dropped onto them these 65 years. I simply point to a notion that has permeated human affairs for thousands of years; it's been codified, acted out and expressed in any number of proverbs, sayings, and literature: you reap what you sow.

    • @Tokyo Ben K,

      "I would go further, imo Palestine will flourish if Tel Aviv high tech and the gay pride parade endure."

      What a ridiculous statement!! Do you feel that maintaining the high tech industry and gay community in Tel Aviv are issues even remotely on the radar of a people whose land, homes and water are being stolen? a people whose movement is curtailed? a people who are NOT afforded equal treatment in the distribution of government services? a people who are shot or beaten for speaking against the injustice? You rail against the word "hasbara", and yet you practice it at every turn. If the Palestinians as a majority in the future choose to treat Jewish Israelis less fairly than brothers, would it surpise you in light of the treatment they have received? Additionally, you fail to mention that the world has a right to judge the REAL, CURRENT Israelis as well as your projection of how future Palestinians may choose to behave. The world is judging the Israelis more and more severely, and unless the behavior of Jewish Israelis changes, the judgement and subsequent consequences will become harsher and harsher.


    • @Nevada Ned,
      While this is absolutely true,

      "Phil Weiss is one of a small but growing number of American Jews (who) are willing to face up to the realities of Israeli policy without flinching, evasion, or hypocrisy. I hope that the number will continue to grow. The Mondoweiss website provides a valuable service. Phil and his comrades deserve our support."

      your challenging of Citizen as "be(ing) so sure of Phil Weiss’ motivations and thought processes." is a misrepresentation. Citizen is actually quoting words that Phil said in a discussion with G. Atzmon. Apparently I was not the only one who was extremely surprised to read these words, and I feel that discounting the motivation for any person's actions is a grave error.


  • Hopeful reading: Obama will go over Israeli leaders' heads to youth and say regime must change
    • I was scrolling through the comments, hoping that I'd see one from Dan Crowther. I was not disappointed. Dan, are you becoming a realist? Two points about Phil Weiss and his Mondohope. First, the youth of Israel are not some subjugated base of liberalism that has been hidden under a blanket by their fascist elders. The youth in Israel are as fascist, if not moreso, than the older generation. They have been carefully trained to be so. Second, Obama has proven unable to make real contact with the youth in his own country, a youth that is slowly but surely trending towards ideals of small government libertarianism as they see their future prospects destroyed by big government and bigger debt.

      I put forward a motion to change the name of the site: Mondohope (less).

  • Obama scared AIPAC into silence, then defeated it
    • @Oklahoma farmer,

      M.J. Rosenberg does NOT need to rethink his thinking again. People who read him need to understand his thinking. M.J. Rosenberg would like Israel to retain its position in regards to the "special relationship." He would like Israel to continue to receive billions in US taxpayer dollars that are sorely needed at home. M.J. Rosenberg wants Sen. Chuck Shumer to become leader of Senate Democrats. M.J. Rosenberg has a great fear that the great unwashed American population of goys is going to suddenly wake up and then all American Jews, even "good Jews" like himself, Phil Weiss, etc. will be in trouble. So basically, M. J. is a "liberal Zionist." He wants to have his cake and eat it too. And to continue eating the cake, and to allow Israel to continue eating America's cake, he feels that it is necessary to throw two groups under the bus: the first group is Netanyahu and his fascist land-grabbers in Israel, and the second is the Israel first, fascist, right wing American Jews like Bill Kristol and his Emergency Committee For Israel or Sheldon Adelson and his Republican Jewish Coalition. In M. J.'s eyes, they go too far. He actually believes that if Israel returned to the pragmatic, centrist policies of past Labor governments, there would be a chance for peace, ignoring the fact that past Labor governments NEVER had pragmatic, centrist policies or acted in a pragmatic, centrist manner towards the Palestinians. He seeks to draw clear lines between the "evil, right wing" ethnocentrists, and the "liberal, humanitarian" ethnocentrists. I know, I know, you can't be a "liberal, humanitarian" and an ethnocentrist at the same time, but there it is.


  • Video: Celebrating 20 years of the peace process!
  • Who knew! Donkey fellator is anti-Semitic trope
    • Question for you, Abe Foxman: When telling the truth makes me an anti-Semite according to your definition, should I stop telling the truth and start lying?

  • When will liberal Zionists give up on their dream?
    • @Mooser,

      It IS some serious conditioning. Serious enough to cause Phil Weiss to say:

      "I feel American before I feel Jewish. I think that's the achievement of my life, to have flipped those identities, and Jewish is second."

      That must be some mondoconditioning if Phil calls it the achievement of his life to put his identity as an American before his Jewish identity. So what would make this seemingly natural prioritization such a monumental task? What is the main avenue of this cultural conditioning? What would you think it would be? Primarily, it would start with the nuclear family, then the extended family, the community, etc. Maybe you could explain the conditioning process if you feel that you have experienced it. I must admit that I feel Sean shows terrific restraint in not calling you out on your constant belittling and minimizing of his raising of serious issues.


    • @Phil Weiss,

      "I meant: that even these lib Zionists fear the rise of anti-Semitism in the west and therefore think they need a Jewish state. I think we need to interrogate this belief."

      This is one of the most important sentences I have seen on this website. Please post more articles that interrogate this belief. I believe that this interrogation can eventually lead to a path that could solve the I/P issue.


    • "No-one but hard-line Zios would oppose it."

      Nonsense! Joel Kovel's mother would oppose it. Phil's mother would oppose it. A huge number of American Jews who on other issues are progressive left-leaners would oppose it, not because they fear some kind of civil war in Israel, as Patrick mentions, but because they would see it as "Not good for the Jews". Until these neurotic fears of the eternally murderous goyim are better understood and overcome, there will be no peace.


  • Hagel is right, Israel must negotiate with Hamas -- Slater
    • Of course Hagel, and all those who have been saying that Israel must negotiate with Hamas, is correct on this issue. Israel also knows that it must eventually negotiate with Hamas. They prefer to emphasize the word "eventually" in this sentence; more time is needed to establish "Jewish communities" in the West Bank, bargaining chips in an eventual (damn, it's that word again) agreement. Foot dragging by Israel on any and all chances for peace or a peace (piece) process has been an ongoing tactic; it's time that the world sat up and took notice, and action.


  • Not skipping a beat, Israeli embassy alludes to 'another Gaza' over Palestinian UN bid
    • I don't know if you saw it, but I slowed down the video and noticed Netanyahu painting polonium onto Abbas' dinner plate!!!

      Frankie P

  • IDF spokesman posts blackface photo of himself as Obama, then issues non-apology
    • "There have been attempts to make use of private photos from my Facebook profile in order to publicly misrepresent my opinions."

      Sorry, Israeli army social media official Sacha Dratwa, but if you are an official for social media, you should understand that nothing posted in Facebook, a public forum, is private. Incompetence?


  • 'Jewish political community' supported Iraq war, but now divides between neocon funders and liberals -- Alterman
    • Thank God for cool heads like that of Citizen C, who made an excellent comment above, and I have to say that Phil Weiss seems to have his head further and further up his, well we won't go into that. PW: "thanks. helpful. it’s a reactionary community on this issue" WTF is that supposed to mean? As if you didn't know that, as if you didn't know the figures regarding American Jewish support for Cast Lead, not to mention the slower burning day to day ethnic cleansing that is Israel and the Palestinian territories that she controls. Here's an excellent piece by Alterman, indeed. We only look at the first sentence and wonder how or why Phil Weiss would not challenge and yes, even laugh out loud at this sentence:

      "while Jews remain liberal and dovish—even on Israel—many Jewish funders and neoconservative pundits do not."

      When will you realize, Phil Weiss, that most Jews in America, contrary to your wishes, dreams, and invocations, do NOT think like you in regards to Israel. Jews in America are NOT dovish on Israel, though they may be dovish on other issues, especially domestic ones.

      And then Alterman's "excellent piece" moves in the direction we have come to expect, namely that of Jewish sensibilities and sensitivities, especially regarding the dreaded peddlers of anti-Semitic imagery. Ho-hum. Alterman then comes to the brilliant conclusion, totally wrong, of course, that "this brand of Jewish McCarthyism is no longer associated with the word “liberal.”" Yeah, tell Greta about that, and we'll see if she agrees with you.


  • No room for racism in a movement working for equality and freedom
    • @Danaa,

      Again, I find myself unable to express my ideas more clearly than you just did in this post. I thank you again. Please get working on that book! The world needs to hear your views.

    • @Annie,

      "this is horribly sad but do not mistake who made this commotion here. it is an impossible situation expecting this to dissolve unscathed. it won’t go away and the world is watching."

      Fuck this commotion and fuck the watching world. They are watching the wrong thing. Your world may be watching this little tempest in the teapot of "anti-zionism", but I'm watching and bitching about how Israel continues to oppress Palestinians and how my country enables it. This whole episode serves as evidence of Atzmon's claims about Anti-Zionist Zionists and their gatekeeping, and I'm shocked and appalled at how many here are fitting that bill perfectly.


  • Stoking fear of 'genocide,' an academic pushes Israel to war
    • Folks,

      You're missing the point here. Congratulations on blowing the entirely flawed argument of one Mr. G H Stanton out of the water. It wasn't a difficult task for the likes of a group of people who are educated and informed on the I/P issue, the Middle East, etc. Now why don't you focus on Mr. G H Stanton, a man who also has to earn a living, raise a family, take care of his own, etc. There are countless like this who focus on, when push comes to shove, one issue: bread / butter. Who is buttering his bread?

      Frankie P

  • Adelson is punching bag for Axelrod, but Axelrod doesn't dare mention Adelson's big issue
    • @Ranjit Suresh: "David Axelrod, by his silence on the issue driving Adelson, is making one thing crystal clear: there is one sphere of politics for Americans as a whole and another level entirely for the leading members of America’s Jewish community."

      Right On! The surprising thing about it is that Phil Weiss acts as if this is surprising. "funnily enough, the email says nothing about Adelson's #1 for greater Israel" Our Mondoweiss "guru" (just kidding, I don't think Axelrod's a guru either) should know we would only be surprised and shocked if Axelrod DID say anything critical of Adelson's support for greater Israel. Phil still likes the imaginary right / left divide among American Jews when the issue is Israel. Shout out to Mooser: has anyone gotten back to you yet on your plea for the names of Jewish congregations who are speaking out about curbing Israeli land grabs and oppression of the Palestinians? I think you asked for this information three weeks, two days, and seven hours ago. Why the silence? Where are the responses? Oh, still waiting.

  • AP reported anti-Islam film that sparked protests was made to help Israel, but questions surround producer of the film
    • "Is this the relationship America wants with the Islamic world?"

      Indeed. And how long will Joe Six-pack be oblivious to these clowns who are instigating this? How long will it be before he gets fed up with having "Sam Bacile and the Jewish Donors" headlining as the band representing him?

  • Open letter from Ismail Hanneya to Occupy Charlotte protesting the DNC: 'We salute you'
    • Is it not conspicuous and illuminating that this post, containing a letter of solidarity from the elected Prime Minister of Palestine, has generated only two comments on this blog? Meanwhile, the focus remains on the faux choice election coming up, meaningless DNC platforms, and the endless navel gazing and internal stuggles of American Jews. It's absolutely no wonder we are getting no closer to a solution to this tired problem.

      Frankie P

  • Jimmy Carter on Corrie verdict: 'The court’s decision confirms a climate of impunity, which facilitates Israeli human rights violations against Palestinian civilians in the Occupied Territory.'
    • @asherpat,

      I agree! "Total disregard and indifference to gentile life" would be a much more suitable way to articulate it, but you know, that takes up so much column space.
      The "Israel bashers", by the way, are in reality people like the driver of that bulldozer, Judge Oded Gershon, Benjamin Netanyahu, and all the blind supporters of the ongoing crimes carried out by the "Jewish State." And yes, I count you among that crowd. The whole lot of you bash the credibility and respect that some people in the world once had for Israel, and uncover the true evil inherent in the Zionist project.

  • Judith Butler responds to attack: 'I affirm a Judaism that is not associated with state violence'
    • Phil,

      Your dissent isn't really dissent. Jesus Christ, Spinoza, Gilad Atzmon - that is dissent. Your dissent is one informed by the idea that we must stop the war crimes and oppression perpetrated by a state that claims to represent us so that we can retain our specialness. Now I'm all with you in the battle to stop the state of Israel in its ethnic cleansing and dispossession of the Palestinian people. I guess its our motivation that differs; you seem to be motivated and informed by a desire to save the Jews and make them into your ideal image; others are motivated by a more humanistic, inclusive ideology.

    • @Mooser,

      What is apparent, however, is how little you have to deviate from the Zionist line to be smeared and persecuted. Can you imagine what the reaction would be if she said: ‘Frankly, the Zionists will never change or deviate from their plan unless something more powerful than they are forces them to do it. Now let’s get busy and put that force together and give it the power it needs to get the job done!’

      The moose is loose!! Mooser, you are spot on - the Zionists WILL NEVER CHANGE OR DEVIATE from their plan unless something more powerful than they are forces them to do it. Sorry, I had to repeat that, as its veracity is so blindingly obvious. Now let's get busy!!!

      Frankie P

    • @American,

      I agree that it is a sad indictment of American academia that Professor Butler feels the need to write a number of paragraphs establishing her Jewish bona fides and a paragraph in opposition to Jews "disavowing thier Jewishness" before she gets to a defense of her very humanistic views. Indeed, standing up for human rights and values is enough, whether it stems from Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, or Martian (honorary humans) upbringing.

      Frankie P

  • Sam Harris, uncovered
    • @Woody,

      It's an alarming trend, the way so-called "atheists" are trying to change the definition of the word!!! Atheism is a belief that there is no God. The position you describe, "there is insufficient reason to believe that there is a god", is defined as agnosticism. I have seen militant atheists on the web also claiming that deists are actually atheists too. Can anyone explain why atheists need to try to blur the lines?


  • 44 Senators, including many Democrats, sign AIPAC letter to Obama against Iran negotiations
    • I think the methodology is more subtle with Phil. He's already totally marginalized as far being in the "Mainstream", but he has strong ties to his Jewishness, a vulnerable spot that can be exploited. Therefore, the ranks of Chabad and Tokyo Benny will continue to call and invite, plying our man with booze and serenading him with traditional monikers and songs about "his people." We know that Phil has their number though, and we are certain that he will stand up for all humanity and continue the struggle.

      Frankie P.

  • Fear, the African refugees and the cost of maintaining Israel as a Jewish state
  • Obama's selective view of the struggle for human dignity
    • Yes, I've been considering an approach to the government of the People's Republic of China, suggesting that they build an American Slavery Museum and Native American "Trail of Tears" Museum in Beijing. I'm sure the good citizens of the United States will be happy to see a foreign power remembering the wrongs their country has perpetrated against its own people, and they were people, regardless of the fact that the white citizens did not see them as such at the time.


  • '60 Minutes' profiles Palestinian Christians, Michael Oren falls on his face
    • A classic example of pre-traumatic stress syndrome. It's almost as if these people want to prove Gilad Atzmon right again and again. And still the "pc left" want to leave him out of the tent.


  • Assange's first guest on RT world premier: Nasrallah says US & Israel seek civil war in Syria
    • @eljay,

      Sorry, I misinterpreted your comment. I wasn't flaming you either, I just thought that you were attributing Nasrallah's statements as spin to please his audience:

      "nothing more than a nice little bit of PR"

      I agree that religious people, especially leaders, never encourage people of their faith to embrace other faiths. It would be a contradiction, as they see their faith as the true path to God. That said, I don't think that Nasrallah panders to the audience in this, or any other interview. His statements are thought out and heartfelt.


    • @eljay,

      You attribute the constant spin and manipulation of PR exercised by western and Israeli politicians to Nasrallah in saying that his faith is Abrahamic. He claims that there is only one "god" and one truth, and that we're one big happy family, but he never said anything about abandoning faith. I see this man as speaking from his heart without the need to manipulate his audience. He sees the truth as enough of a weapon; he doesn't need nor want spin. It goes against his grain. He has always done so, and it's not surprising that when he makes a public speech that is videotaped, Israelis watch it to learn the truth that is not forthcoming from their own politicians.


    • Contrast Nasrallah's sane, rational analysis and his goals of protecting his country and facilitating human and civil rights for the people of Palestine with the hate speech and warmongering of Bibi Netanyahu. Remind me now, who is the terrorist?


  • Israeli celebrity says she enjoyed video of IDF attacking Danish activist because he looked like a Nazi
    • "especially considering what the Danes, whose underground was granted a blanket designation as Righteous Among the Nations for their efforts during World War II to rescue the Danish Jews."

      I question the need to point out the righteousness of the Danes in the context of WWII. This woman, Irit Linur, with her smearing of the goyim as anti-semites, now because of a head of golden hair, is an outrage and she is certainly a sick individual. This should be said regardless of how the Danes behaved with regards to Jews during the Holocaust.

      "But I don’t’ want to talk about the black chasm in my soul that is haunted by anti-Semitism and Nazism."

      Dear Ms. Linur,

      I regret to inform you that the black chasm in your soul has appropriated characteristics of a black hole; that is, it has sucked everything else in your soul into it, negating and destroying it, leaving only the chasm itself.


  • 'Tribefest' excommunicates group of young Jews who dared to speak about ethnic discrimination
    • @piotr,

      You blatantly misrepresent Gilad Atzmon, who has NEVER said that he "basically detests all self-proclaimed Jews". Please go and read what he actually says. And if you can, please try to make me understand why so many people have this attitude of "Atzmon rules", followed by the cringing caveat of "I approve 'excommunication' of Atzmon." What does he rule, the prison block?


    • @Keith,

      They do fit right in, and the following statement is really telling:

      "We need your support to tell them that young Jews will go elsewhere if communal institutions increasingly reject and marginalize us."

      Yes, they should go elsewhere - they should join the human race, and move from category three (Jewish-ness above all else) to become category two Jews - humans who happen to be Jewish.


  • 'Tablet' describes American veterans of IDF experiencing 'dual loyalty' issues
    • @Annie

      "madam chiang" was the wife of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, and I'm sure you had him dancing the spin in his grave by saying that she was married to Chennault, a dreamer who was unable to face the fact that at the time, having air power over an area without control of the land was useless. Chennault claimed in a letter dated October 8, 1942, that with only 105 modern fighters and 30 medium and 12 heavy bombers, he could "accomplish the downfall of Japan...probably within six months, within one year at the outside." The actual downfall of Japan required three more years and the efforts of the air power of nine air forces operating from India, China, the Pacific and Alaska, a Naval air force which in 1945 amounted to 90 carriers and 14,847 combat aircraft, and ultimately two atom bombs.

  • Responding to commenters on recent bannings
    • @Annie Robbins,

      If the church is responsible for wonderful things too, why is the mention of this only a throwaway article on the backpages to you, while the "atrocity after atrocity" occupies every other prominent position in the paper?


    • @teta mother me,

      Phil Weiss subsequently apologized for his calling the Catholic church "the church of pedophelia", but that didn't erase his publicly stated first impression of that institution. I think he should be retrospectively banned from this site!!!


  • ADL enlists city of Oakland to block Atzmon event
    • @mooser,

      Horns are those things growing out of the heads of oxen; they're a bovine version of your antlers. Gilad is a reed or woodwind player.


    • @mooser & @piotr,

      Here are a few links of the recent concert in NYC with the Meetinghouse Jazz Orchestra. That is the same concert that attracted the Dersh in all his royal hissiness, attacking the good Quakers for hosting the notorious antisemite. The solos GA takes on his compostions Ouz and Le Cote Mediterranee on "the trumpet or whatever his is using" are soaring and exquisite. He is truly one of the most important jazz improvisers / composers active today.

    • Adam and Phil,

      Get this comment from Danaa and put it up as a post, as soon as possible. You owe it to yourselves, this blog, and the truth to offer the point of view of an ex-Israeli who intrepidly shows the indoctrination that occurs in that country. These bare facts that Danaa lays out no doubt leave you feeling uncomfortable, but you should still do the right thing and share them prominently with the Mondoweiss community.


  • Why young Palestinians chant the word 'thawra'
    • Danaa,

      I've read and enjoyed your comments for some time; this one is particularly accurate and goes straight to the heart of the matter. Please continue commenting.

      Frankie P

  • Israel is at the heart of Jewish identity, Gorenberg says
    • @Krauss,

      “The Jews have too much influence in America, problem is that most American Jews care more about Israel than their own country”.

      Now you can understand why many American Gentiles with open eyes are rooting for the American Jews who care more the US and human rights than an apartheid state that claims to represent them. Unfortunately, many of the influential, organized, super-wealthy American Jews fall into the category of caring more about Israel than their own country, and they weild their influence accordingly; they are single-issue contributors. They make no bones about it; they state it openly. So are you saying that truth = anti-semitism?


  • Ron Paul's antiwar position is simpleminded
    • @jerome slater

      "There is no serious prospect of any change in Israeli policies, or of US support of them, unless the American Jewish community can finally grasp that those policies are irrational, self-defeating, dangerous, and immoral. Without the support of the Jewish community, there is no chance that any US government will adopt the strong measures that are the only chance of reversing Israel’s course: BDS, and making US aid conditional on such reversals. Therefore, the most important audience for Mondoweiss and other blogs, including mine, is the American Jewish community."

      Please update us with reports of your activism towards convincing your community. How many shuls have you visited lately, trying to convince your people of the insanity of their support for Israel. If you want to see a "wolf pack", try that one out!


    • @RoHa,

      I think you left something out.

      (*For Michael Walzer and Jerome Slater, "Israel wants it" always counts as a just cause.)

    • Mooser,

      I disagree with you on many things, especially on Gilad Atzmon. That said, I have to commend you for this laser-accurate comment. Jerome Slater has a Phd. in Conventional Wisdom. Unfortunatly, the conventional wisdom in the west, especially the bizarre world of the US, is becoming less and less coherent and applicable to the world as a whole.


  • Several thousand US troops headed to Israel for 'unprecedented' joint missile defense exercise
    • Witty,

      If the Straights of Hormuz ever form an alliance with the Gays of Hormuz, what power will the violation of international law be raised to?

      Inquiring minds want to know...


  • More responses to Ron Paul's surge
  • Muslims ban Christmas and rape white women, in latest Latma satire
    • @Krauss, Cliff, Jeffery,

      First, Cliff is mistaken to call Krauss a Zionist troll. His history of posts proves that this is not the case. He has appeared to be more of a realist in many ways. However, I cannot understand, Krauss, why you respond to Jeffery's post by focusing only on his doubt that you have mainstream articles to back up your claims of the predominance of Mulsim rapes. Please address his main point, which is that anti-semitic acts in Europe are directly related to Israel's long oppression of the Palestinians, wanton wars against numerous Muslim countries, and the blind, full support of Europen Jewry to the Zionist state, including the overt and covert lobbying of European governments. Ignoring this fact is perilous.

  • 'Haaretz' columnist says 2-state solution is dead--and global community must help us toward equal rights
    • @Krauss,

      Thank you for a very insightful comment. Your analysis of the current situation regarding the dispassionate eye of outsiders seems as accurate as your prediction of how the next few years will crush the illusions of so-called liberal Zionists.

      Actually, your own dispassionate eye seems to disprove your conclusion that Gentile analysis of the situation is becoming more relevant than Jewish analysis!

  • Ron Paul and the left
    • @jnslater and seanmcbride,

      Professor Slater,

      As someone who is no doubt aware of the negative influences even baseless accusations of anti-semitism can have on one's career and reputation, you should be ashamed of the way that you use that smear without burden of proof. Don't you realize that empty accusations about anti-semitism have blurred the lines between "those who hate the Jews" and "those who the Jews hate", marginalizing a serious form of racism? Keep your suspicions, research them and find conclusive evidence, and then and only then open your mouth. I have to agree with sean here; you are making yourself and your opinions unworthy of serious consideration.


    • @ish,

      Get some new batteries for your sarcasm sensor! YOU were the one saying
      "Are we so uncreative that that’s our only choice? Barack Obama or Ron Paul?". Please point out what other choices you see, because in my eyes, besides RP, the rest of the field is more of the same establishment bullshite.
      So, as I was trying to say in my sarcastic way, there don't seem to be any other choices that qualify as saviors. "Separation of church and state" indeed. I believe in a drastically reduced state that keeps its nose out of the people's business and lets them get on with their lives and prosper, and that's
      why RP is the only one making sense to me.

    • ish,

      Yes, waiting for your reply. I'm afraid that Jesus isn't among the Republican candidates, last that I checked.

    • @gazacalling

      I find your comment extremely insightful and accurate. I strongly feel that it should appear as an article on mondoweiss, not as a direct reply to Lizzy Ratner exclusively, but to all left-leaners who attack Ron Paul under the guise of political correctness.

  • Why did it take 6 years to talk about the Israel lobby?
    • @Kathleen: " “the battle between liberal Zionists and hardcore Zionists” Still do not get this one. How can you put liberal and zionist together? When Zionism is fundamentally exclusivity and the rejection of the identity of the Palestinian people?"

      It's a gate-keeping attempt. By constantly drumming that there is a schism in the debate, but both sides are firmly Zionists, you marginalize and ignore voices that fall outside of the Zionist narrative.

    • Speaking of "little glimpses into the future".

      Phil Weiss:
      "In short, the question of the Israel lobby will at last morph into questions of Jewish political identity."

      Fess up, Phil. You HAVE been reading Gilad Atzmon's website regularly. Now interview him on Mondoweiss and do the right thing. Six years from now, maybe the ideas in The Wandering Who will be as mainstream as W&M are today.

      Frankie P

  • Why is Charlie Rose hugging Seth Klarman?
    • Avi G, as usual, is spot on in his "nitpicking", although if it "goes to the heart of the matter", I don't see why you call it nitpicking. Phil still has this blind spot about the need of Jews to stick together, and the Jewish groups that fit his idea of progressivism exhibit incredible beauty that answers the Jewish desire. The reason for the danger in this ethnocentric clubbing is clear: the adherents and followers of the Seth Klarmans of the world also think they are exibiting incredible beauty that answers the Jewish desire.

      Still waiting for you to return the favor and have Gilad Atzmon in an interview. Grow a pair Phil, and face something that makes you uncomfortable.

  • On Shabbos the rabbi stood outside neighbor's house shouting F-you at his 'Free Palestine' bumper sticker
    • @Shmuel,

      I can't help but wonder why the Union for Traditional Judaism needs to differentiate.
      Aren't fellow Jews part of humanity and creation? Why the need to separate? Something seriously amiss in the movement's religious philosophy.


  • Sadly, Americans need permission from Israeli heroes to stick a fork in Zionism
    • @thetumta

      While he doesn't need permission from Israeli heroes, he surely feels the pressure from the tribe. In addition, Phil Weiss claims that putting his identity as an American before that of being a Jew represents "the achievement of my life". Do you feel the weight of that statement? And yet, on a thread yesterday or the day before, when tod said that no Jews should be involved in the investigation of Israel (I'm paraphrasing), Phil showed up on the comments board, upset about such a comment. How could a man who considers putting his identity as an American before that as a Jew the achievement of his life question why a non-Jew would be skeptical about giving responsiblity for investigating Israel to another member of the "elite identity" tribe? How many American Jews are unable to make such an earth-shattering achievement, Phil? From the horse's mouth:

      “I believe all people act out of self-interest. And Jews who define themselves at some level as Jews -- like myself for instance -- are concerned with a Jewish self-interest. Which in my case is: an end to Zionism. A theory of political life based on altruism or concern for victims purely is doomed to fail.”

      Atzmon: Openly and bluntly, Weiss confirmed what many of us have been saying for a very long time: it is not solely ‘altruism’ or concern for Palestinians victims that motivates some of the most prominent Jewish campaigners and organisations, but it is also, as Weiss freely admits, ‘Jewish self-interest.’ I confessed to Weiss that I was overwhelmed by his frankness. I think that Weiss may well be the first Jewish activist to admit , or even to define the Judeo-centric impetus behind the Jewish- progressive political discourse. I decided to press it further, asking Weiss whether he considered himself to be ‘tribal’?

      And once again, Weiss’ answer was brave and honest, though he did start to express some frustration. He answered, “Yes I do at some level. And what bugs me about stuff you send me (I guess that Weiss was referring to Nahida’s article) is that I end up in the end inevitably and predictably at some site trashing Jewish religion, to which I have very little connection, though yes I feel some core ‘Id’** and this makes me think in the end, that dialogue with you will not help ME because I am interested in frying different fish. While you seem out rather reductively to prove the degeneracy of a religion which I’m sure is deeply problematic, as Islam is and the Church of Pedophilia…( sic)”

      However, I still do not grasp why Weiss thinks that I am interested to reductively ‘prove the degeneracy of a religion’ -- I am not really interested in criticising the religion of Judaism, or any other religion for that matter: in fact, I am far more concerned with Jewish secularism and Jewish secular ideology.

      However, it was at that stage that I realised that Weiss was a perfect candidate for an interview. He certainly embodies the Jewish-progressive school of thought: a unique mixture of righteousness, charming self-love, mixed together with some deep intolerance towards other people’s belief systems.

      I went on to ask Weiss: “What does the word ‘Jewish’ mean for you?”

      Weiss was short and precise in his response : "My mother, my father, my grandparents, a family feeling, us-ness, in distinction to the Them."

      I pressed Weiss further , asking him, “this ‘us-ness’ does it really extend beyond family and friends? Do you for instance, feel ‘us-ness’ with an Iraqi Jew?”, I wondered.

      ‘I think identity is multi-factorial,’ Weiss replied, ‘I feel American before I feel Jewish. I think that's the achievement of my life, to have flipped those identities, and Jewish is second. I see Jewish as this great civilization that I am part of. That transcends borders, and it's not Zionist. Zionism is like Shabbetai Tzvi, It's a big chapter in a long story. Jews will survive this one too. Jews is: a sense of difference, yes, inevitably of elite identity, that's part of Jewish history and one I struggle with. Jewish is a Story, a myth…’

  • Halper: Israel may attack Iran so that we won't hear the word 'Palestinian' for another 5 years
    • @American

      "They invoke Jewish scapegoat claim while they literally live out the old canard that Jews aren’t loyal to the countries they live in and operate as a nation within a nation.
      I don’t even know how to describe this orwellian disconnect of theirs, claiming they’re not doing what they’re doing when the whole world sees them doing it."

      Don't get your knickers in a twist trying to understand why they do it, or how you should describe it, or why they would risk everything...
      If it goes against your fundamental interests, fight it with all you have. Sometimes you just have to accept that some things don't change, and
      no matter how we may have hope about change, and hope that the world is better and different - a changed place, when faced with the grim reality, we have to work with it and do what we can. When you point out the “conflict between the interests of Israel and the United States,” you will be called an anti-semite. Can you deal with that? It will take courage. When you highlight that cleavage that Halper says ought to be stated now, you will be smeared again, and again. Man, what an ugly feeling, knowing that people may be wondering if you are the "new anti-semitism", a "hater", etc. Hunker down, American; it seems that you have the interests of your country at heart; it will take many like you, fighting to resurrect the integrity of your country against a vile, special-interest group that seeks to destroy it.


  • Romney promises to abdicate American foreign policy towards Israel . . . to Israel
  • Racism toward Arabs is what unifies the Zionist right, says JJ Goldberg, liberal Zionist
    • Yes, you do Richard. You choose to cover your racism with huge dollops of the whipping cream of disingenuousness, mendacity and semantic nonsense so that you are able to force it down your throat without gagging.


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