Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 522 (since 2011-11-05 12:04:06)

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  • Our new look
  • Israel accuses Gaza children of using Hamas as human shields
    • It was only when I got halfway scanning this I had to scroll to the top to discover these were parody headlines, although it wasn't that any of them seemed unlikely, it was because there were so many. I love the Naftali Bennett one about Gazans committing self genocide as they knew what Israel would do. Definitely something he would say.

      I may post some of these up on Facebook to see what kind of reaction I get from Zionists.

  • Propaganda on Palestine: All-Knowing White Man & Angry Black Woman conjure good Jews and evil Arabs
  • The players may change, but the game remains the same: The use of racism to justify the massacre of innocent civilians in Gaza
  • Terrifying tweets of pre-Army Israeli teens
  • Young Jew seeks to prepares his community for heretical & inevitable-- end of Jewish state
    • MHughes: point taken, but whilst we all know Zionists want it all, they can't betray their aspriations to their opponents. Like Netanyahu constantly exclaims that Israel wants peace, he's never willing to deal with the things that will bring peace, which is either retreating to the 1967 borders or allowing equal rights.

    • I've discussed this 'soft landing' situation with Zionists and you can physically see the wind being knocked out of them. It goes something like this:

      "Yes, you can still have Jerusalem as your capital, you can still be Jewish, all your Biblical interpretations remain intact. All you need to do is share the land equally and for that no one will want to kill you. Don't worry, freedom of religion can be constitutionally protected. All you need to do is have a constitution."

      They don't have anything to counter it with.

  • Palestine unity government to be sworn in Monday (Update)
    • @Just:

      Do bear in mind that Israel bankrolled Hamas in order to divide the Palestinian people and in the hope they'd all catch religion. One Israeli comment went along the lines of "How can they fight us if they're on their knees five times a day?".

      Israel are truly showing their true colours by boycotting. The unity government have pledged to recognise Israel and denounce violence. Effectively, even if we take the line that Hamas is a terrooriist organisation, if they cease to engage in terrorist acts (read resistance), and become the only party with which to engage in negotiations with, then that's who you negotiate with.

      Oh, silly me. I was thinking for a second that Israel actually wants negotiations / a solution / peace. Nope, they don't want any of those things.

  • South African radicals wanted to kill Paul Simon for violating boycott -- Steve Van Zandt
    • Interesting to see how the Stones will get on. I've been wondering how Keith is going to square the Israel leg of the tour with his book.

      He'll probably come up with some pre written 'Israel is completely different to S.A.' thing....

  • Open recriminations begin over failure of peace talks
    • I think that Peres letting the cat out of the bag tells us one very simple thing. The peace process isn't a big priority for Peres, Netanyahu or Israel and why should it be? Things aren't bad enough yet.

  • Palestinians can have an embassy in Jerusalem, but God forbid not a capital -- Israeli mayor
  • Australia opposed Palestinian UN bid because foreign policy was 'subcontracted to Jewish donors' -- report
    • I know Hophmi and his buddies are great target practice, but as Krauss pointed out, he's all about derailing the conversation so people don't learn anything and instead raise their arms at whatever crass statement he's last dropped here.

      All I'm saying is don't fall for his bullsh1t. Sure, if he has a legitimate argument engage him, but for the most part his trolling works very well. He's probably getting bonuses from Hasbara based on the number of replies he get and topics he derails.

  • Not an April Fool's joke: U.S. weighs releasing Pollard to keep Israelis at negotiating table
    • Settlement freeze? Israel will probably just evict EJ Palestinians and give their homes to settlers, then cry when they're called out for it....

      If Abbas goes for this he's a twat....

  • A British Jew warns US Jewish orgs to heed rapidly-shifting world opinion
    • @Mike Konrad:

      Paul Wilkinson's remedial theology and mud slinging only has an ear within a very small corner of Christianity in the UK. Those that latch onto it also believe they will be raptured to heaven for a ringside seat to watch all the Jews of Israel either convert to Christianity or be slaughtered.

      I find it very interesting that Jews want to align themselves with those who hold to such anti Semitic theology, but I suppose such is Israel's desperation, they'll happily do so.

  • Evangelicals who dissent from Christian Zionism wear 'stain of indelible infamy,' Israel says
    • They did 2,000 years ago, yes. However, according to Christian teaching:

      Hebrews 8:13
      "13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."

      That hadn't happened yet......

    • My issue is when people use their religious definition as currency. Messianic Jews are virtually worshipped in Christian Zionist circles. A large part of this is due to Romans 11 where the Apostle Paul describe himself as an Israelite. Rather than understand the passage in its context of Paul talking to Italians who in the 1st century mistakenly thought that this new religion they had received was not available to Jews, but only to Gentiles.

      An understandable mistake, given the exclusivity of Judaism. They assumed the reverse would happen, rather than the walls of division between Jew and Gentile coming down.

      Christian Zionists read this in a futurist perspective and think that Jews who convert to Christianity today are something special. If Mr Weiss wants to take up a very profitable career, I'd advise conerting to Christianity and writing a few religious books.

    • Messianic Jews are a strange subset. They believe in Christ, but also observe some, but not all of the Jewish faith.

      They love to big up their Jewish credentials as Christian Zionists put them on pedestals.

    • "The benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant as multi-faceted as they are promised to both the Jewish people and the nations through Abraham, yet the physical land is ONLY promised to the Jewish people, ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

      With respect to every one of every faith here, according to the New Testament, this is contrary to Christian teaching. If anyone can tell me how they can apply this to a Christian Zionist support for Israel, I'd be very grateful..

      Galatians 3:

      15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

      19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

      21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

      23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

  • Read the StandWithUs dossiers on pro-Palestine activists for yourself
    • I've not heard of the guy, but I couldn't help but laugh at Stand For Facts' description:

      "Joe Carr, or Joe Smith as he was previously known, is a self described Anarchist who works to dismantle racist and patriarchal systems of privilege and tear down “society at large”. "

      Are they suggesting this guy is wrong to challenge racism and systems of privilege? Isn't apatheid a system of privilege?

  • When you type 'apartheid' on Google search, it supplies 'Israel'
    • The interesting thing will be Google's reaction to this. There was a big fuss about 10 years ago after a group of people 'Googlebombed' the search results to show G.W. Bush's page on the Whitehouse.gov website when you typed in the phrase 'miserable failure'. Another one was 'French military victories'. Google would return Did you mean: 'french military defeats'?.

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      This used to be achieved by a very simple tactic of putting anchor text on a website with the relevant phrase with a hyperlink. Google has since changed its algorithm to avoid this, but the interesting thing at the time was Google's position when they were approached by the Government and told to take it down. They refused, citing that they will not alter their results by hand.

      I'm watching this with interest. I bet Netanyahu will throw his teddy and demand that Google remove this. It will be interesting to see if he has more clout than the President of the United States.

  • EU Prez Martin Schulz wreaks havoc during speech at Knesset
    • No politician is going to stand in the Knesset and quote stats he heard from 'a Palestinian boy'.

      This was very deliberate. Shultz knew his facts, but decided to play the 'you tell me' game.

      He won hands down. Nicely played Mr Shultz.

    • Page: 5
  • Shaking up Zionism: A review of 'Zionism Unsettled: A Congregational Study Guide'
    • @Hophmi:

      I think Braverman is pretty awesome. He's Jewish and preaches to Christians about the dissonance in Christian Zionist teaching. Whilst Zionism is uunderstandably highly nationalistic and one may even say tribal, CZ theology is very screwed up. Sadly the religious support given to Israel from the pulpit to the ballot box has done nothing but enabled Israel to paint itself into the corner its currently in.

      As a ex CZ, I believe that peace would have been found much sooner and Israel / Palestine would be a much happier and healthier place than it is today if it wasn't for Christian Zionism.

  • Renowned cartoonists and illustrators call on International Festival of Comics to drop association with SodaStream
  • Vote at the Guardian: Should Oxfam sever ties with Scarlett Johansson?
  • Hail hail hasbara!
  • Update: 'Blood bubbles' -- mainstream media turn on SodaStream and Scarlett Johansson
    • Hey Talknic,

      Thanks for the correction. I've been lurking on J Street's FB page over the last couple of days just dropping corrections to the lies on there. No people in Palestine, RoR, Palestinians in 1947 being immigrants, Transjordan being part of Palestine. No Palestinian people pre 1967. It truly is frightening. Initially it seems that these people are propagandised and are simply regurgitating, but its when you challenge them with hard irrefutable facts that they cannot deny, they don't want to hear or start making anti Semitic accusations.

    • I just read Benny Avni's article in the NY Post.

      I didn't know the 1949 Armistice lines were obsolete or that Maale Edumim (sic) is part of Israel as it is on proposed maps.

      link to nypost.com

      The reason Zionists are so hard to debate is that they change historical facts faster than facts on the ground. You have to check almost everything that comes out of their mouths....

  • Is this a first? State Dep't rebukes out-of-control Israeli minister
  • Scarlett Johansson watch: SodaStream stock plunges
  • Scarlett Johansson for SodaStream: 'Set the bubbles free' but keep the Palestinians bottled in Area A
  • Palestine, 1927
    • Thanks Hostage.

    • Yes, I'm fine with that. I live in the U.K. Some people define themselves as British, others are highly offended by that definition and wish to be called English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish.

      My point is that Israelis could say they're from Israel and Palestinians could say they're from Palestine whilst they're talking about the same place. Its only nomenclature...

    • Thanks for that, but what's your point Obsidian? It says Eretz Yisroel AND Palestine. One certainly doesn't negate the other. The various documents and instruments (Balfour / LON / Churchill White Paper, etc) would suggest that a dual name (similar to as it is currently known by those of good concience as Israel / Palestine) may have been a good solution to provide a homeland for the Jewish people without prejudicing the indigenous people already living there.

      I don't think the problem lies with who lives there or what its called. The problem is with Zionism's racist infrastructure demanding all the land and the disappearance of those who lived there before. That's where they screwed up.

    • (FreddyV gets popcorn.....)

    • I bought a 1927 Palestine 5 Mil coin on Ebay. I keep it in my wallet.

      I'm just waiting for some Zionist to pull the "currency" question out of their arse from the Dry Bones Palestine Quiz.

      link to drybonesproject.com

      A guy called Tony Malone made a great rebuttal to this Hasbara nonsense here:

      link to dissidentvoice.org

  • Chilean soccer team puts Palestine front and center
    • "HOWEVER … I am NOT willing that the only Jewish state on the planet be destroyed or divided to fix the situation.

      The answer – as awful as it is – is relocation of the Palestinians. The Palestinians should be compensated. South America has assimilated the Arabs. They could absorb the 1.5 Million in the contested areas."

      Mike, that's some pretty evil stuff. One group shouldn't have to be eradicated to serve the purpose of another's existence, whoever the groups are. Doesn't your moral compass tell you that?

      The answer lies in recognition and entitlement. The minute Zionists can admit they invaded and conquered another's land, there's a chance to move forward and give the Palestinians equal rights within Israel.

  • BBC lampoons view that criticizing settlements is 'anti-Semitic, mate'
    • The Beeb are equally accused by the Israel Lobby for being too pro Palestine. As far as this skit is concerned, its quite commonplace to see these kind of 'baiting' sketches using Joe Public being suckered into a situation to lay plain the most absurd situations.

    • I wouldn't bother with the BBC link. This was only one snippet of a sketch show and I don't envisage them repeating anything like this.

  • 'The Israeli sniper shot my son as if he hunted a bird': Wajih Wajdi Al-Ramahi, 14, killed while standing outside of West Bank school
    • I'm ashamed that my country Great Britain offered to vote yes to the Palestinian observer membership to the UN on the condition they wouldn't invoke the powers of the ICC.

      Then you see this.

      The Hague is calling.

  • Interview with Roger Waters: 'It's a duty for artists to speak out'
  • Israeli ambassador's present to Obama -- settlement cufflinks!
  • Netanyahu's 'gift' to Pope: book on Catholic church's persecution of Jews
  • Israeli soldier discusses killing Palestinian children on Ukrainian game show
  • Netanyahu: Israel is 'by itself,' 'not bound by this agreement'
    • @Justpassingby:

      I know, I know.... Maybe its just wishful thinking.

    • Whatever people say about Obama, he's completely outmaneuvering Netanyahu in this second term.

      Hopefully Bibi's right wing Likudniks end up creating such a huge chasm between them and Americas interests that the US call time on this charade and leave them to fend for themselves.

      It needs to happen if Israel are to grow up and join the table of nations.

  • Iran deal could result in 'nuclear suitcase' in US city in 10 years -- Naftali Bennett scares NY
    • I don't get all this enrichment stuff. Doc Brown just got a load of Plutonium from those Libyan guys in the VW camper bus to fuel his De Lorean.

      OK, so you still can't get it at every grocery store, but how hard can it be exactly?...........

      We're only 2 years off from having hoverboards for frick's sake!

  • Protest Sunday: The Israeli settler movement is not welcome in New York City!
    • @Mahane:

      Thank you for your reply. I do find these online interchanges interesting as we occasionally step over lines we would never cross in real life and these serve as checks and measures to remind us to be cordial, polite and honest. I appreciate your comments and take them on board.

      Regards

      fred

    • @Mahane:

      As you well know, this place and many others gets hit on a regular basis with Hasbarists or defenders of Israeli Government policy posing as innocent posters who have just 'found' Mondoweiss and are shocked by having large portions of the narrative as they know it to be refuted.

      Alternatively, Ayala could really be an innocent who is shocked to hear the true narrative of the Israel / Palestine conflict.

      Either way, the truth is the truth and posting up here with Ayala's post you're going to get educated.

      If she's honest, 'educated' means she'll learn something. However, if she's a hasbarist, take 'educated' to mean having her ass handed to her. As I said, the truth is the truth. Sorry if peeps can't handle that. "you're wrong" usually don't go down too well, but the truth isn't about being nice. Sorry. I'm sure she's a lovely girl and all and I'm sure you, Hoppy, FredBlogs and all the other defenders of Israel's policies are fabulous people and all.

      I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant Mahane and I hope Ayala was being honest, but as honest as Ayala appears, her post is like a third grader walking into a sixth grade maths lesson and telling everyone that they're full of shit. "Oh really? Come and take a seat my dear and learn something".

      Or maybe she's a bot.

    • @Mahane:

      Its not arrogance.

      Its pity........

    • Hi Ayala,

      Welcome and prepare to be educated. Sadly, your country has fed you and your fellow countrymen lies and propaganda from the outset. Allow us to help you.

      San Remo eh?

      I asked questions about San Remo once. Take a look at Talknic's reply:

      link to mondoweiss.net

      Regards

      Fred.

  • Israel and its apologists can no longer defend the country on its merits, instead they must try to suppress debate
  • 'Pro-Life? Pro-Israel?': Israeli anti-abortion organization reaches out for US support to fight demographic war in the Jewish state
    • "God blesses those who bless Israel - Based on Genesis 12:3"

      Actually, God was talking to Abraham. Israel didn't exist.

  • George Bush set to speak to Christian End-Times group that calls for conversion of Jews
    • @HRK:

      Whilst Christian Zionism claims not to be antisemitic, one can only conclude that the playing out of the eschatology (end times prophesy) is precisely that.

      CZ's believe that they will be whisked to heaven leaving a period of time when the earth will continue to turn and The Time Of Jacob's Trouble will occur when most Jews will perish with only a few 'chosen' Jews converting to Christianity.

      In essence Christian Zionism demands the complete elimination of all Jews with the majority of them being required to perish and only a few being 'saved'. in the Christian sense.

      When you wrap your head around this, you realise how CZ's can happily wring their hands over the Palestinian plight and over the endless wars in the Middle East. As they view it all as part of God's Great Plan, their Christ orientated moral compass (help the needy and the poor and sick, love thy neighbour etc) gets so screwed they wouldn't even be able to find the bathroom with it. They don't even see the millon deaths in Iraq or the crippling sanctions killing Iranian children, or the millions of people who are subjugated by regimes in Egypt etc to accommodate Israel and America's behaviour. To these people, its all part of God's Plan, no matter how fcuked up it all gets. Geddit?

      I don't mind anyone holding to any religion or worldview, but when it is such a very dangerous and evil one as this, I have to speak out against it.

  • Israel will attack Iran unless you block nuclear agreement -- French Israel fixer warned Foreign Minister
    • @ Ira:

      You've still got 'draft copy' in the header.

      Regarding the content of this post, its truly distressing that this country and its leaders can behave in such a way without being reprimanded by the international community.

  • Kerry reassures Israel as Congress grumbles about a deal
    • I think the reason everyone is so keen for a thaw with Iran is that they have a lot of oil still in the ground because of the sanctions and because they've become highly self sufficient, even building their own 747 parts to get around the lack of supply from Boeing. In short, if they become completely self sufficient, sanctions will be irrelevant, so its better to befriend and incorporate them now.

      As Rouhani is holding the proverbial olive branch, no one loses too much face.

      As far as the nuclear thing goes, they're second leader in the field of medical isotopes and probably have very good reason to desire higher enrichment. Canada is the world's main suppliers, but are having problems. Germany are looking to fill the void by building a plant in Belgium, but Iran is there, ready and willing to do business. It all seems to be about good old supply and demand which seems to be more important than Israel in this instance.

  • What comes next: The future bends toward equal rights
    • Looks like Israel are actually creating their own bantustan in the Middle East.

      'Or, the legitimacy of Pat Boone’s claim to Palestine/Israel will be recognized by the United Nations. The first proposition is likelier; no one will claim that 3 billion Christians have a right to settle in Palestine.'

      This is one of my personal faves when challenging the Jewish historic claim to Palestine.

      'I'm a Christian' I say. 'And I can trace my line back to John The Baptist'. This is usually followed by peels of laughter.

      I then ask why are people laughing. Jews claim to be directly from Abraham's lineage, so how is my claim any less outrageous?

  • Pat Boone sells tiny plots of Israeli land to Christian Zionists
    • @Walid:

      You're right on the whole game of 'don't let them know that we know' that both parties are playing. The thing I find completely nuts is that CZ's actually reject the indigenous Christians there and claim that they are not true followers of Christ.

      On the book of Revelation and John Patmos, I disagree. If you relate it to the events of AD70, you'll find it wasn't a prophetic writing in the sense of some mythological far flung future event. It was actually a warning of what was going to happen in the near future. The early date estimates of writing place it in AD67. When you look at the first chapters, it warns of events 'soon to task place' and things being 'at hand'. It also addresses churches in the day. Basically it was speaking about the impending fall of Jerusalem.

      Just an aside: To give you an idea on how laughable the whole rapture thing is, Have a look at this:

      link to telegraph.co.uk

      There's a guy who has started a business which offers a collection and care of pets in the event of The Rapture. Basically, this guy takes a payment which guarantees that he will collect and care for your pet should Jesus return and take you up to heaven. His services are non refundable. Ha! I wish I'd thought of that!

    • @W.Jones:

      I was actually making a pro Israel argument for the Mavi Marmara attack on a forum I used to frequent and was about to declare myself as a CZ, when I thought it would be a good idea to Google the definition of Christian Zionism. I found this site:

      link to christianzionism.org

      I'd never researched the conflict and was encouraged to view Israel as God's Chosen People and their return to the land as a prophetic sign of the coming 'last days'. As a result, I feel a tremendous guilt, not only because of the prejudices of my previous beliefs, but also as I learned, Great Britain has to take a fair chunk of blame for the current situation. I'm British.

      I noticed you touched on Isaiah 59. Interestingly, Paul quotes this in one of the more contentious of his writings. Romans 11. Verse 26 reads:

      'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:'

      Few people go to the scripture Paul is quoting. Isaiah 59:20:

      'And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.'

      Paul's 'all Israel' is referring to converts to Christianity. When I first searched that out, it was a mind blower. There's a whole bunch of Christ based references in the N.T. which CZ's happily gloss over.

      Ephesians 2 is an indictment of the entire Dispensational / Premillenial movement.

    • @W.Jones:

      Apologies if my tone appeared contradictory to your comment. Reading back, I'm not really sure of the point I was making apart from reinforcing your comment and adding some extra gravitas.

      From my experience, Many CZ's don't want to follow their theology through, preferring to leave the eschatology (end times teaching) alone. Its generally the hard line CZ's who preach it, but even then, they use cushioning words like 'rapture', 'tribulation' and terms like 'The Time Of Jacob's Trouble' to lighten their horrible interpretation of scripture to their congregations.

      Another habit of CZ's is to refuse to be drawn into the I/P conflict as it exists today. The reason is they cannot square it with the teachings of Christ. CZ's draw from the horrors and bloodshed of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible instead of interpreting the Old in light of the New Testament.

      As an ex CZ, once I started hearing about I/P, I had to go back to the Bible and found supporting Israel's behaviour at complete odds with scripture. I then started looking at what the future held according to this teaching. I wish more CZ's would take a critical look at what they're taught, but its a tough ideology to break.

    • Yes Walid, I agree with everything you've said, but from a purely theological perspective, it was Darby who directed a A to Z route through the Bible (actually more labyrinthine and erroneous than that) which he then sold to Americans. Until that, faith in Israel's salvation (from a Christian perspective) was largely an unformed 'feeling' that God hadn't forgotten His people based on readings of scriptures like Romans 11. Then came Cyrus Schofield's Bible with notes promoting Zionism, but that's another story.

      My point is that CZ found its form through Darby. I know many Christians who are ardently anti Zionist and against Darby and Schofield, but do hold to a belief that one day, the Jewish people will recognise Jesus Christ as Messiah.

      There's a very interesting book called The Puritan Hope by Iain H Murray on the subject.

      link to amazon.co.uk

    • Interestingly, I wonder how Mr Boone can square this with his Bible:

      Leviticus 25:23:

      ‘The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me. 24 And in all the land of your possession you shall grant redemption of the land.'

    • Hey Annie,

      Amazingly, Christian Zionism as a focused organised movement actually pre dates Herzl's Jewish Zionist movement by some 50 years. Sure, there has been the cry of 'next year in Jerusalem' for eons, but it was John Nelson Darby and the Powerscourt Conference that started looking at the reality of a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      From the Jewish perspective, you are right in that the capture of Jerusalem in 1967 started all the CZ rapture crazies setting their prophetic clocks and the Israelis encouraging this. I also think the CZ thing rubbed off on Israelis making them more right wing religious.

    • Exactly miriam6.

      I wish there was more exposure to it here to balance out the 'Jewish Navel Gazing In The Diaspora' posts.

      CZ's influence has been the key player in Israel's unwillingness to make serious inroads to peace.

      You can't really blame Israel's leaders when you have millions of very stupid people who believe God has charged them with the task of getting Israel's back until Jesus sweeps them up to heaven.

    • @W.Jones:

      Christian Zionism demands that when the Great Tribulation occurs, some Jews will convert to Christianity, while the rest perish during 'The Time Of Jacob's Trouble'.

      Christian Zionism is actually completely antisemitic when you follow it through, but few people do and those that do tend to play this aspect of wholesale slaughter of the nation of Israel down.

  • Natalie Portman and Woody Allen see anti-Semitism as pervasive
    • @miriam6:

      You Zionists spend inordinate amounts of time trying to conflate Judaism with Israeli nationalism and its occupation of another's lands. Hell, even Israel's leaders demand Israel to be recognised as "The Jewish state'', but the moment someone points out a "Jewish" negative, you're all over them as though they've made some antisemitic slur.

      Do us a favour and choose one way in which you'd like the Jewish / Zionist / Israeli occupation of Palestine to be described then let us know so we can address this violation of human beings in a manner that you can't contort legitimate criticism into baseless accusations of antisemitism.

  • Lift the cruel, unfair sanctions on Iran, and you can close the nuclear dossier
  • Christian Zionists help settler-farmers take over Palestinian lands
    • Phil Weiss - Adam horowitz:

      This is where the problem lies. Not with a few influential rich Jews a'la Adelson and a load of bullshit thought about 'where Jews are now and how we can change the paradigm'.

      The problem lies with the 50 million or so 'Christian Zionist' dickheads who think like these assholes.

      If you want the US to start exercising its veto in the UN, start with educating these bigots.

  • 'We need to remove all the posters from the system' -- Boston censors the Palestinian narrative (Updated: The ads are going back up)
    • Very interesting irishmoses. Thank you for the correction.

      Hostage is a real gem isn't he? I swear he's either Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, or Illan Pappe.

      Genius.

    • @LanceThruster:

      Actually Mondonut is correct, although the correct maps are in fact far less favourable to Zionism.

      There should only be 2 maps.

      The first map should be all green. In 1946, the territory was Palestine. Just because Zionists acquired land in Palestine, it doesn't mean it wasn't Palestine. If a Russian bought a farm in Kansas, it doesn't make the farm Russia.

      The Partition Plan map is meaningless. Israel accepted and the Palestinians rejected it. The plan never got past a General Assembly resolution. Israel unilaterally declared itself into being, taking 78% of Palestine instead of the 55% offered by foreign nations. Unfortunately the weren't any laws preventing foreign nations from carving up other people's countries or acquisition of land by conquest by invading forces.

      The second map should be the 1948-1967 map. That is what International Law demands. The fact that someone is squatting on it makes no difference to ownership.

      I think bringing attention to map 4 in this way is conceding ownership of those occupied territories and should be removed.

      Simply:

      Map 1: This was Palestine

      Map 2: Despite the Palestinians agreeing to settle for 22% of their historic homeland, the greedy Zionists want it all and are stealing it. Help us to stop them.

  • 'Muslims, you want to kill 100 percent of the Jews' -- the wit 'n wisdom of Sheldon Adelson
    • I'm sorry Cliff, but I disagree.

      Adelson is merely a product of Hasbara. He's largely ignorant as his comments display. Not dissimilar to Germans who in the last century fell prey to Nazi propaganda.

      And before some Ziobot leaps on this comment, I intended to provoke. Seriously think about what you have to say and who represents you. Shit heads like Adelson are doing you no favours.

  • Yeshiva U panel concludes Israel and Jews face destruction from: Iran, assimilation and occupation critics
  • Einstein letter, on sale at Ebay, blamed Jewish terrorists for risking 'catastrophe' in Palestine
    • Hi Annie,

      If you click on the Ebay listing, there's a press cutting on it.

      This must be such an embarrassment for Israelis. One of the world's most famous Jews so plainly damning the Zionist project in two brief sentences.

  • What Comes Next: Even one state may not be enough
    • Guys,

      I think poor Jeffrey has got his facts mixed up. Should we just let him reply and explain more clearly?

    • Correction: Apparently, there are Arab conscripts, but as Wikipedia describes, these are minute.

      link to en.wikipedia.org

    • Jeffrey J. Melnick says:
      October 14, 2013 at 6:10 pm

      "The above piece by Noura Erakat is a fraud. Instead of reflecting a balanced view, it cherry picks issues whilst making the false claim that …”While Israel’s 1.2 million-strong Palestinians are afforded citizenship, they are systematically excluded from the privileges of nationality.” How absurd. The approximate 20 percent of Israel’s Arab citizens are Israelis. That is their nationality. They serve in the IDF."

      Please present to us any Palestinians (non Druze) who have served in the IDF.

      This is precisely one of the reasons Palestinians are treated differently. Those who do military service are eligible for state payments and privileges that non military are not. What better way to discriminate against the non Jewish demographic.

      "They travel with Israeli passports and their rights and privileges are no different from any other Israeli."

      Please see here. It would be good to hear your opinion on this:

      link to adalah.org

  • Israel lobby group counters Palestinian dispossession with-- Jewish creationism
    • From what I've been told, Josephus' account of Christ was more than likely injected in by well meaning but corrupt Christians looking to implant 'historical' evidence of Jesus' existence.

      Jesus' life and death wasn't really a biggy by standards of the day. There were more messiahs being put to death than you could shake a stick at.

      Historians have suggested that the only reason Josephus' work survived was because of the Jesus quotes.

  • Does the passing of time affect the rights of the displaced to return?: Palestinian claims for reparation in international context
    • Thanks for the reply Walid. Makes sense and sounds like textbook Zionism. I'm sorry to say I do have one more question. Sorry if I'm sounding a little ignorant:

      Why would the descendants continue living in refugee camps in poverty rather than assimilate into the local society? I know Israel would love this to happen, but that aside, I don't see why anyone would choose to live as a refugee if there was no carrot or payout to look forward to.

    • Thanks Walid and Tree. I'm sorry to say, I still can't wrap my head around it. Do Palestinian refugees who are descendants of those displaced in 1947 - 1948 and 1967 have a right to compensation or indeed anything from Israel?

      I understand that only those affected and their dependents are entitled to ROR, but what I'm trying to understand is why Israel are so adamant for ROR to be taken from the negotiating table if all it's going to do is allow a few thousand old people the option to move back to their decimated villages.

    • Hopefully without hijacking, I'm not clear on ROR. Its suggested that only those displaced have a right of return and not their descendents.

      Is this also the case with reparations and/or compensation or are descendants entitled?

  • Western diplomat: Netanyahu 'out of step' with the mood of detente toward Iran
    • Out of step?

      In the famous words of Erin Brockovitch:

      “That's all you got, lady. Two wrong feet in f---ing ugly shoes.”

  • State Dept: No US aid to Israel until budget deal is reached
    • @Citizen:

      Have you seen With God On Our Side?

      I found this an interesting take as it points out the Palestinian issues and moral disparity between Israel's policies and Christian theology.

  • Israel's real fear: shift in balance of power with a normalized Iran
    • You've pretty much nailed it Citizen.

      Remember the Axis Of Evil nations G.W. spoke about? The one common thread between them was that not one of them is in debt or has any reliance whatsoever on the US Dollar.

  • Israel launches media blitz against Rouhani
    • re·gime also ré·gime (r-zhm, r-)
      n.
      1.
      a. A form of government: a fascist regime.
      b. A government in power; administration: suffered under the new regime.
      2. A prevailing social system or pattern that Israel doesn't like.
      3. The period during which a particular administration or system prevails.
      4. A regulated system, as of diet and exercise; a regimen.

      Source: link to thefreedictionary.com

  • Jackie Mason says 'giving' the Palestinians the West Bank is like giving them half of Florida
    • And here lies the problem. Israelis are convinced that they're the ones making concessions.

      Take a look at this Facebook page I've been doing battle on. As you can imagine, the title of the group - 'Arab - Israeli Peace - A Very Frank, and, Open Discussion' is never discussed.

      link to facebook.com

      They all think it's their land, which given the sheer amount of Hasbara they're fed, it's no real surprise. I'm actually feeling sorry for them. Sooner or later they'll come to know the truth.

  • Palestinians have to suck it up for segregated train lines and 4000 new settlements --reporters grill State Dep't
  • Salon writer concludes that 'judeophobe' is just code for 'anti-Zionist'
    • A Zionist is a person who believes in a state for Jewish people.

      Ironically, most Zionists aren't Jewish. They're dumbassed Evangelical Christian fundamentalists and if they learned the error of their ways, Israel wouldn't exist.

      I think the distinction is screaming to be made as we could then discuss the motivations behind it all.

  • Netanyahu may require DNA tests to prove immigrants have a Jewish 'bloodline'
    • Dunno about laugh. If this becomes criteria for citizenship, I can apply. My grandfather was Jewish.

      Although I can see a major flaw in this. In a reverse of the Nurenberg Laws it means that those genetically Jewish but of another faith could become citizens. If you take Arabs in Israel / Palestine and surrounding nations alone, you'd almost definitely decimate a Jewish majority in Israel.

      How embarrassing......

  • Video: Israeli soldier suffering 'flashbacks' brutally attacked Palestinian workers near settlement
    • The extreme violence he witnessed. Was that violence perpetrated by Israelis on Palestinians.

      We don't hear too much about Palestinians committing violent acts against the IDF or settlers, so I'm a little lost as to how we could use this as any kind of excuse.

  • We gotta get out of Israel, if it's the last thing we ever do
    • This is very strange. I wouldn't peg Burden as one to walk away, but I haven't heard of any threats from BDS supporters before.

      Maybe he's cancelling and using the threat thing as a means to save face with everyone.

  • 'The era of sanctions against Israel has started': Official BDS movement statement on new EU regulations against settlements
    • Thank you everyone for commenting. Looking back, I was metaphorically asking for a fish, so I've been doing a bit of reading.

      Hostage's comment about the San Remo 'Treaty' is probably the most damning to the whole piece. It's like Deshowitz's 'as we all know' fabrications. In absence of any referencing device, the author becomes the authority to the reader who's aim is to be taught and is therefore in a passive / receptive mode. The author immediately abuses their position to their own ends. Kind of sums up Hasbara really.

    • I don't know if any of you guys have seen this, but Melanie Phillips, the UK's Daily Mail Zionist mouthpiece has pitched up on this subject, calling it 'baseless hatred' from the EU.

      link to melaniephillips.com

      What's all this San Remo stuff? I've done a bit of reading but I'd love Hostage or Talknic to get hold of this.

  • In 'earthquake' diplomatic move, EU calls on Israel to 'recognize in writing that the West Bank settlements are not part of Israel'
    • Wow Annie! Thanks for the hat tip, but I'm not sure it's deserved for the link I sent you against the amazing amount of work you've put in bringing this important news to light.

      Exciting stuff!

  • The world will support a campaign for Palestinian citizenship in Israel
    • This is all very simple and will end one of two ways.

      1: One state

      2: Anyone past the Green Line gets a Palestinian passport.

      We can talk about maintaining the status quo, which is what Israel is currently doing, but eventually they'll lose US support, the UN will get called in and it'll all be over.

  • Meet Catherine Ashton, Tony Blair’s pro-Israel proxy in the EU
    • You forgot to mention Ashton meeting with Netanyahu after talks with Iran. Strange. I would have thought she'd report to the EU first, possibly the UK second. Oh no, she reports to Israel who aren't even NPT members......

  • McDonald's refuses to sell where Ben & Jerry's will -- occupied territory
  • 'J Street' says Jewish state 'hangs in balance' of failed negotiations
    • Most Christian Zionists refer to Jordan as the state for Palestinians and can't understand why they don't just move there. Obviously, this way of thinking involves removing humanity from the equation and identifying the actors in this situation as collectives, which can be moved around like chess pieces.

    • See Hophmi, here's where I agree with Finkelstein. The 650,000 settlers could be given a choice to stay in the new state of Palestine, or to return to Israel. As Finkelstein points out, most will go, some will kick and scream, then go rather than be left with the 'crazy Arabs'. Then you'll be left with a few thousand religious nuts.

  • Bennett slams European labelling measure, saying occupation demonstrates 'true coexistence between people'
  • Young people with American accents declare they won't be ethnically cleansed from their 'native land' (Jerusalem)
  • Rick Steves travels to Palestine and comments on nearly everything but the occupation
    • Ah, found this.

      link to mondoweiss.net

      Mike_Konrad says:
      April 5, 2013 at 1:17 pm

      'Wish her lots of peace and success.

      I hope she Westernizes a bit and loses the hijab, but other than that, all the best.'

      And you've got the nerve to say I have a problem? Wow! Just wow!

    • Dude, why so inflammatory? I made an off the cuff comment which was nothing to get this het up about.

      For the record, I'm not being sanctimonious. I'm just a little puzzled as to why the guy makes such a big deal out of it. He's supposed to be this well traveled TV presenter. Surely he's aware that some women dress more modestly than those in other cultures? Hijabs are pretty common where I'm from so perhaps I'm just a little too cosmopolitan....

      Aside from your accusatory tone and ad hominem attacks by calling me Humbert Humbert (I had to look that one up. Thanks for suggesting I'm a paedophilic voyeur. Really classy), you also managed to attack me as though I authored the piece and suggested Islam is an oppressive regime, rather than a religion with varying levels of adherance. You also strangely pointed out that there is oppression within the Amish community. Amish are Christian right? Can we say that based on your yardstick that Christianity breaks women's spirits?

      I haven't kept up on Mondoweiss too much of late. I'm guessing you're the latest in a long line of token Ziobots the mods allow to post here so the regulars can have someone to sharpen their debating skills on. I'd suggest you up your game a little. If you're going to fail as big as you have here over such a non point, you may as well pack up and go home. You'll be eaten for breakfast if the big boys get hold of you.

      I might have a look through your previous posts and see what humiliating little dialogues you've managed to get yourself caught up in. Good luck with it all and tell Hasbara Central that I say 'Hi!'.

    • Although it's got to be said, Jasmine (the girl Steves flirted with in the first pic) is super beautiful and it's completely irrelevant that she's covered from head to foot. I don't get that America's biggest travel guy has got this big hang up about their perception of modesty. He just cuts across as ignorant.

  • Church of Scotland's revised 'Promised Land' report has softer edges but thrust is unchanged
    • @W.Jones:

      From a Christian perspective (and I'm obviously being sensitive to our Jewish friends here), Christ put Judaism on notice, warning of an impending calamity to occur within a generation (40 years) of his passing.

      Looking at the events of AD70 and the fact of Herod's Temple being sacked, Judaism had to rebuild itself and simply is not the same religion that existed in the first century AD.

      In light of this and purely from a Christian perspective, Judaism is no more or less correct than Islam, Buddhism, Hindu or any other religion. Yes, there are certainly lessons we can learn from the Hebrew Bible and from the Jewish religion, but it isn't getting anyone to Heaven from a Christian standpoint.

  • The power of Stephen Hawking
    • I don't know if anyone took note of the Guardian poll. It was at 68% pro Hawking, then dropped down to 62%.

      I bet Hasbara Central had their IP scramblers running and were hitting the 'no' button like maniacs to try and level things up.

      I love it went Zionists crap themselves. I just hope they're got the message that they lost the war of public opinion a long time ago.

  • More on the Church of Scotland's controversial report on occupation
    • "The biblical/historical, religious and Holocaust claims were very secondary if considered at all. This I believe continued to be true for decades. I am wondering about the reason for the change; my initial thoughts are that the Nakba was not widely known about and that there has been an increasing need to justify the taking of the West Bank."

      I've heard this before. Israel was very secular and left wing and argued it's case through the prism of colonialism, which was still cool 40 odd years ago. Now Israel is more right leaning and uses religion.

      My take on this is that the religious element grew out of the 1967 war and capture of Old Jerusalem. This "miracle" germinated both in Israel and in the US with Jerry Fallwell and Hal Lindsey twisting Christian teaching. When you're arguing from an indefensible position you'll ally with anyone and Israel has assumed a religious leaning for the ends of that $3bn paycheck and that UN veto.

  • Church of Scotland backs away from boycott call in the face of pressure
  • When will the discourse of the 'two state solution' finally change?
    • Just demonstrates that Israel's legitimacy will always be questionable. It started as a settler colonialist project, threatening the existence of the indigenous.

      This makes a strong argument for a one state solution. No matter how you slice a two state solution, Palestinians won't see full justice. The only problem with one state is that it completely relies on Israelis and Palestinians getting along and the disassembly of Israel as a Jewish state.

      I'm not sure how that's ever going to happen, so is a two state solution for Palestinians a way for them to get something sooner rather than later?

  • Kerry likens Boston victims to 'Mavi Marmara' victims
    • Awesome reading of the events Annie. I've been out for a few weeks and my reasoning (read: Hasbara bullshit detector) needs a little calibrating.

      So true. Kerry was appealing to the Turkish psyche and identifying the events with Boston. Danon and co would have been wise to shut up, seeing that Israel apologised only the other week for the Mavi Marmara massacre.

  • In landmark case on Israel and Jewish identity, British tribunal says anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism
    • From the JC article:

      'He expressed particular concern over a statement in the judgment that "a belief in the Zionist project or an attachment to Israel" was "not intrinsically a part of Jewishness".

      Mr Fraser commented: "For the court to say that as Jews we do not have an attachment to Israel is disappointing considering we have been yearning for Israel for 2000 years and it has been in our prayers all that time."'

      You may well have yearned for Israel, but you went about it all wrong. Instead of abusing and raping, you should have tried to court her and demonstrate your love for everything in her, including her indigenous people.

  • Israel Project 'makeover' shows how U.S. stands between Israel and total isolation
    • Very interesting comment Hophmi.

      I was wondering about this whilst reading the article. It would certainly be in Israel's interest to 'limit' the press in some way so that negative news would be given a lower profile. I understand Japan has certain restrictions in place regarding economic news so as not to alarm their public. Thing is, censoring the news in this way is only going to affect outside opinion. From an inside perspective, it's arguably more effective for Israel to drop their Hasbara tactics around the world and concentrate their time and efforts on indoctrination within.

      'It's a rough neighbourhood' / 'Arabs are terrorists' / 'The world is against us as it always has been...' We've seen these kinds of tactic as far more effective. Sadly the end result with be it building walls around itself and closing off diplomatic ties with most of the world.

      It's quite sad really.

  • Obama brokers Netanyahu apology to Turkey over 'Mavi Marmara' attack
    • Gotta say David, that's how I read the whole thing.

      I think Obama is playing the long game here. Installing Hagel was the first step. While he prostrated his self to the Israel lobby to get in, his personal opinions are most likely unchanged, which will be reflected in his actions. Obama is in a second term and Netanyahu is weakened.

      There's a lot of disapproval here, but it feels like there's a shift. I wouldn't be surprised if we all woke up one day to find that the situation changes at the same rapid pace that South Africa did and without a shot fired.

      Here's hoping.......

  • Day Two of Obama in Israel/Palestine — Obama visits Ramallah and addresses the Israeli people
  • Row breaks out in chambers as Aussie Parliamentarians criticizes 'study tour' of Israel
    • I love it when Zionists dismiss recounting of the amount of kidney stone cases in Gazan children as an 'anti Israel rant'.

      It just proves how repulsive Zionism can be......

  • Netanyahu's 'lecture at the White House' still rankles Obama supporters in Washington
    • 'Maybe Obama is planning some payback?'

      Lets hope he's not in Israel if he does. I fear your concerns regarding armed civilians and Obama's security may become a reality.

  • In remarks on 'threats and challenges,' new DefSec Chuck Hagel leaves out Iran
    • Defo a positive. Interesting thing is that he ran the gauntlet of pro Israel neocons when many would have just told them to stick the job up their asses.

      I think this whole thing as a line up to Obama bitch slapping Netanyahu. Looks like talks with Iran are finding a more positive footing, Relations with Syria's new regime seem to be better so what can Israel possibly lean on to derail meaningful talks about the Palestinian issue?

  • Video: Israeli settler lecturing Palestinian farmers -- 'You'll all be our slaves, if you're worthy, if you behave well'
    • I love the way the settler is creating facts on the ground throughout the conversation. At the beginning the Palestinian farmer is explaining that it's his father's land. At the end the settler is wanting to know where he should start his tractor. Total chutzpah.

      Reminds me of a joke my dad used to tell.

      A kid goes to his miser of a father and asks for a Dollar. Dad says: 50 cents? What do you want a Quarter for? I gave you a Dime yesterday. I'm not giving you a Nickel today.......

      That's how the Israelis negotiate. You think you're sitting down at the table to talk about the 22% that hasn't been taken from under you and in a few short sentences it turns into a few bantustans and a life of misery.

      I don't know why the world puts up with this crap. If you live east of the Green Line, you get a Palestinian passport. End of.

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