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Total number of comments: 44 (since 2011-11-05 12:04:06)

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  • Obama to sign AIPAC-promoted trade bill that legitimizes Israeli occupation and fights BDS
  • Video: Two prominent Israelis envision replacing Dome of the Rock with Jewish temple
  • Update: UK petition calling for Netanyahu to be arrested for war crimes reaches 100,000 signatures
    • Given that Netanyahu enjoys Diplomatic Immunity and won't be arrested, but the 100,000 signatures automatically triggers a debate in Parliament, what happens now?

      Someone here has suggested that he is disinvited, but our politics are massively infiltrated by the Israel lobby, so I don't see that as possible .

      I'm thinking that this will be a 5 minute affair where its raised, then shot down immediately and on to other business. This is a victory for public opinion. 100,000 isn't many people in a nation of over 70 million, but it is significant for this many people to feel sufficiently strong enough to take action.

  • Calling Herzog and liberal Zionism ‘racist,’ Gideon Levy instigates a reckoning
    • Return is what Gilad has been going on about for ages. Its not about Jewish agonising and viewing the conflict through the prism of Zionism. Its about those displaced and oppressed in this conflict having their rights addressed firstly and foremost.

      Judaism, Jewishness, Israel, Zionism etc are irrelevant in this.

  • Christian Zionists expose their anti-Semitism at conservative summit in Iowa
    • I'm actually very familiar with them in the UK. My father in law runs one. Polite language is often employed to skirt around such future events and when people are pressed on them, there is a great tendency to adopt vague theological positions so as to avoid such beliefs being challenged.

    • @Joe Catron:

      Its not a contradiction at all, but I admit that I wasn't being clear.

      People who hold to Dispensational teachings aren't given the full story. They get a overview of supporting Israel until they are Raptured up to heaven, then the Jews will go through "The Time of Jacob's Trouble" (this is when 2/3rds of Israel get wiped out). Eventually they will "look upon the One that they had pierced", meaning those remaining Jews who survive the slaughter.

      In other words, they get the soft version. If the full story were openly discussed and understood, I believe many adherents would turn away from this belief.

    • I'd say that the role the Jews play in the "end times" beliefs held by these people is certainly antisemitic.

      In order for Christ to return, 2/3rds of the Jews have to be slaughtered with the remainder replacing the raptured Christians by converting to Christianity and evangelising the earth. Most Dispensationalist Christians either won't admit to this or aren't taught it.

      Whilst the majority of those believing in premilllenial theology still believe in witnessing the Gospel to Jews, branches are of the opinion that it is unnecessary to preach to Jews as they receive Divine revelation of Jesus before they die and are converted anyway.

  • Video: Israelis in West Jerusalem call for attack on Iran
    • Gog Magog is prevalent in Christian End Times Theology too. Its encouraged as the Messiah will return.

      Based on that, now apply a belief that an inevitable war between the nations of the world and Israel must occur to your current world view.

      Its scary that current affairs are being driven by this.

  • ICC rules prosecutor to reconsider 'Mavi Marmara' investigation
    • This is a good one. Ken O'Keefe.

    • Glad to see justice on its way. It was this event that triggered my activism, although as a Christian Zionist at the time, my plan was to research and formulate a defense for Israel.

      I'm still suffering for my defection to this day, but I believed in the truth and at last we're seeing the truth will out.

  • In effort to thwart BDS, some Israel supporters urge partial settlement freeze
  • Notes from the Munayyer-Beinart debate
    • Interestingly, I actually own a property in Hungary that belonged to my father and I still possess the deeds. Whilst my family were not refugees, there was a period where it wasn't possible to take ownership during the Cold War. The property has since been occupied by people and stands today as Google maps will attest to.

      From a personal perspective, I don't feel correct in staking any claim on this property as its ownership has moved on through the passages of time and events. I suspect many Palestinians feel the same way about this, but due to the ethnic cleansing they endured, they would hold the state of Israel to account and demand they be compensated.

  • It's time-- again-- for BDS to end oppression
    • Excellent article Lloyd.

      I do have friends who lived in Rhodesia and are Zionists. They point to the current Mugabe rule as an example of why Israel cannot allow Palestinian rights. Obviously the end result of people choosing a leader like Mugabe shouldn't be a reason to maintain inequality, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this and how Zimbabweans feel about their current affairs.

  • Understanding the Jewish National Home
    • Dr Fincham.

      Thank you. There are many occasions can think of where these documents would have been useful in debate, particularly the link to the Carlsbad Resolution.

      Bookmarked and saved.

      Many many thanks for this excellent piece.



  • Israel could reduce anti-Semitic violence by not calling itself the Jewish state, Finkelstein says
    • And quite awesome work as always Annie.

      This is quite timely. I'm due a debate soon and Norman's position has been playing on my mind after seeing him on TV recently. This is an excellent "go to" as an abridged version. Thank you.

  • Iran is 'congenital cheating' 'Islamic power bent on world domination' -- Netanyahu tells US media
    • has anyone found the source of the "Israel's destruction is non negotiable" quote Bibi says came from Iranian General Mohammad Reza Naghdi?

      The only place I seem to be able to find it is from Bibi himself, but nowhere leads to an original source.

      Its not Iran that's distrustful, its the Israelis and in particular everything that comes out of Netanyahu's mouth, by all appearances.

  • CUFI Leader John Hagee confirms Christian Zionism is anti-Semitic
    • @Lysias,

      Supersessionism or "Replacement Theology" is something of a canard used by Christian Zionists to attack orthodox Christianity.

      The argument is that God has forsaken the Jews in favour of a new group of people now known as Christians. Ironically it is Christian Zionism that holds the belief that Christians are the group currently enjoying God's favour and will continue to do so until they are raptured to Heaven, when God's attention will again turn to the Jews.

      The apostle Paul spent a great deal of time correcting the Christians of Rome on this error when they thought that they had become the recipient of God's favour rather than the Israelites.

      The book of Romans explains that only those who are in Christ are in God's favour, whether Jewish or non Jew. All are broken off from relationship with God and can only commune with Him through Christ.

      The basic issue Christian Zionists have is a lack of understanding that Christ's arrival didn't change the people, it changed the economy. Instead of temple worship, sacrifices and priests, Christ brought a new covenant through His blood, which made the old one obsolete.

  • Pelosi blasts Netanyahu speech as 'insult to intelligence of U.S.', Amanpour calls it 'dark, Strangelovian'
    • As a non American who is not used to viewing visiting speakers to your Congress, I have to say I was sickened to the stomach by the sight of American politicians jostling to out do each other in their vocal support for Netanyahu.

      It was unashamed.

      It was blatant.

      It was the worst display of arse kissing I have ever witnessed in my entire life.

      Now I know the UK government is very bought by the Israel lobby, but this was something else. I have never ever seen before. I'm in shock.

      "America is easily moved"? Irrespective of this being the Israeli PM, I am truly scared shitless that a that a foreign head of state carries this much influence of the world's only superpower.

  • You're on a roll, Mr. President, so abstain from vetoing the Palestinian bid to the UN Security Council
    • I hope the US vetoes, but I don't have much hope either Ramzi. I think this will play out in the following way.

      Europe and the rest of the world are fed up with Israel and the US veto and will envoke UN Resolution 377 "Uniting for Peace" and bypass the US.

      Normal Israelis, faced with paying to establish a Palestinian state, compensating refugees and absorbing 750,000 crazies from the settlements into Israel proper whilst leaving behind strategic and water resources, will decide that one state with equal rights for all will be a softer option.

      It'll probably be a mess for the next 50 years like South Africa is turning out to be, but bye bye Zionism. ;)

  • As Kerry scrambles to prevent Palestinian action at UN, Israeli govt makes clear it will never accept Palestinian state
  • British Parliament sends a message to Obama: the people see Israel as a 'bully'
    • @Harry Law: I remember watching that as the first time I saw the British government for what it is. Bought and paid for by the Zionists. Cameron and Hague made me want to puke. Thank god the decision is now out of their hands.

  • Our new look
  • Israel accuses Gaza children of using Hamas as human shields
    • It was only when I got halfway scanning this I had to scroll to the top to discover these were parody headlines, although it wasn't that any of them seemed unlikely, it was because there were so many. I love the Naftali Bennett one about Gazans committing self genocide as they knew what Israel would do. Definitely something he would say.

      I may post some of these up on Facebook to see what kind of reaction I get from Zionists.

  • Propaganda on Palestine: All-Knowing White Man & Angry Black Woman conjure good Jews and evil Arabs
  • The players may change, but the game remains the same: The use of racism to justify the massacre of innocent civilians in Gaza
  • Terrifying tweets of pre-Army Israeli teens
  • Young Jew seeks to prepares his community for heretical & inevitable-- end of Jewish state
    • MHughes: point taken, but whilst we all know Zionists want it all, they can't betray their aspriations to their opponents. Like Netanyahu constantly exclaims that Israel wants peace, he's never willing to deal with the things that will bring peace, which is either retreating to the 1967 borders or allowing equal rights.

    • I've discussed this 'soft landing' situation with Zionists and you can physically see the wind being knocked out of them. It goes something like this:

      "Yes, you can still have Jerusalem as your capital, you can still be Jewish, all your Biblical interpretations remain intact. All you need to do is share the land equally and for that no one will want to kill you. Don't worry, freedom of religion can be constitutionally protected. All you need to do is have a constitution."

      They don't have anything to counter it with.

  • Palestine unity government to be sworn in Monday (Update)
    • @Just:

      Do bear in mind that Israel bankrolled Hamas in order to divide the Palestinian people and in the hope they'd all catch religion. One Israeli comment went along the lines of "How can they fight us if they're on their knees five times a day?".

      Israel are truly showing their true colours by boycotting. The unity government have pledged to recognise Israel and denounce violence. Effectively, even if we take the line that Hamas is a terrooriist organisation, if they cease to engage in terrorist acts (read resistance), and become the only party with which to engage in negotiations with, then that's who you negotiate with.

      Oh, silly me. I was thinking for a second that Israel actually wants negotiations / a solution / peace. Nope, they don't want any of those things.

  • South African radicals wanted to kill Paul Simon for violating boycott -- Steve Van Zandt
    • Interesting to see how the Stones will get on. I've been wondering how Keith is going to square the Israel leg of the tour with his book.

      He'll probably come up with some pre written 'Israel is completely different to S.A.' thing....

  • Open recriminations begin over failure of peace talks
    • I think that Peres letting the cat out of the bag tells us one very simple thing. The peace process isn't a big priority for Peres, Netanyahu or Israel and why should it be? Things aren't bad enough yet.

  • Palestinians can have an embassy in Jerusalem, but God forbid not a capital -- Israeli mayor
  • Australia opposed Palestinian UN bid because foreign policy was 'subcontracted to Jewish donors' -- report
    • I know Hophmi and his buddies are great target practice, but as Krauss pointed out, he's all about derailing the conversation so people don't learn anything and instead raise their arms at whatever crass statement he's last dropped here.

      All I'm saying is don't fall for his bullsh1t. Sure, if he has a legitimate argument engage him, but for the most part his trolling works very well. He's probably getting bonuses from Hasbara based on the number of replies he get and topics he derails.

  • Not an April Fool's joke: U.S. weighs releasing Pollard to keep Israelis at negotiating table
    • Settlement freeze? Israel will probably just evict EJ Palestinians and give their homes to settlers, then cry when they're called out for it....

      If Abbas goes for this he's a twat....

  • A British Jew warns US Jewish orgs to heed rapidly-shifting world opinion
    • @Mike Konrad:

      Paul Wilkinson's remedial theology and mud slinging only has an ear within a very small corner of Christianity in the UK. Those that latch onto it also believe they will be raptured to heaven for a ringside seat to watch all the Jews of Israel either convert to Christianity or be slaughtered.

      I find it very interesting that Jews want to align themselves with those who hold to such anti Semitic theology, but I suppose such is Israel's desperation, they'll happily do so.

  • Evangelicals who dissent from Christian Zionism wear 'stain of indelible infamy,' Israel says
    • They did 2,000 years ago, yes. However, according to Christian teaching:

      Hebrews 8:13
      "13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."

      That hadn't happened yet......

    • My issue is when people use their religious definition as currency. Messianic Jews are virtually worshipped in Christian Zionist circles. A large part of this is due to Romans 11 where the Apostle Paul describe himself as an Israelite. Rather than understand the passage in its context of Paul talking to Italians who in the 1st century mistakenly thought that this new religion they had received was not available to Jews, but only to Gentiles.

      An understandable mistake, given the exclusivity of Judaism. They assumed the reverse would happen, rather than the walls of division between Jew and Gentile coming down.

      Christian Zionists read this in a futurist perspective and think that Jews who convert to Christianity today are something special. If Mr Weiss wants to take up a very profitable career, I'd advise conerting to Christianity and writing a few religious books.

    • Messianic Jews are a strange subset. They believe in Christ, but also observe some, but not all of the Jewish faith.

      They love to big up their Jewish credentials as Christian Zionists put them on pedestals.

    • "The benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant as multi-faceted as they are promised to both the Jewish people and the nations through Abraham, yet the physical land is ONLY promised to the Jewish people, ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

      With respect to every one of every faith here, according to the New Testament, this is contrary to Christian teaching. If anyone can tell me how they can apply this to a Christian Zionist support for Israel, I'd be very grateful..

      Galatians 3:

      15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

      19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

      21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

      23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

  • Read the StandWithUs dossiers on pro-Palestine activists for yourself
    • I've not heard of the guy, but I couldn't help but laugh at Stand For Facts' description:

      "Joe Carr, or Joe Smith as he was previously known, is a self described Anarchist who works to dismantle racist and patriarchal systems of privilege and tear down “society at large”. "

      Are they suggesting this guy is wrong to challenge racism and systems of privilege? Isn't apatheid a system of privilege?

  • When you type 'apartheid' on Google search, it supplies 'Israel'
    • The interesting thing will be Google's reaction to this. There was a big fuss about 10 years ago after a group of people 'Googlebombed' the search results to show G.W. Bush's page on the website when you typed in the phrase 'miserable failure'. Another one was 'French military victories'. Google would return Did you mean: 'french military defeats'?.

      link to

      This used to be achieved by a very simple tactic of putting anchor text on a website with the relevant phrase with a hyperlink. Google has since changed its algorithm to avoid this, but the interesting thing at the time was Google's position when they were approached by the Government and told to take it down. They refused, citing that they will not alter their results by hand.

      I'm watching this with interest. I bet Netanyahu will throw his teddy and demand that Google remove this. It will be interesting to see if he has more clout than the President of the United States.

  • EU Prez Martin Schulz wreaks havoc during speech at Knesset
    • No politician is going to stand in the Knesset and quote stats he heard from 'a Palestinian boy'.

      This was very deliberate. Shultz knew his facts, but decided to play the 'you tell me' game.

      He won hands down. Nicely played Mr Shultz.

  • Shaking up Zionism: A review of 'Zionism Unsettled: A Congregational Study Guide'
    • @Hophmi:

      I think Braverman is pretty awesome. He's Jewish and preaches to Christians about the dissonance in Christian Zionist teaching. Whilst Zionism is uunderstandably highly nationalistic and one may even say tribal, CZ theology is very screwed up. Sadly the religious support given to Israel from the pulpit to the ballot box has done nothing but enabled Israel to paint itself into the corner its currently in.

      As a ex CZ, I believe that peace would have been found much sooner and Israel / Palestine would be a much happier and healthier place than it is today if it wasn't for Christian Zionism.

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