Total number of comments: 66 (since 2011-07-30 17:54:17)
gamal
born part Arab part Scots/Irish, worked in training ulema for the european environment/ journalist broadcaster for many years working mainly for bbc. From a faction of euro-islam much favored by the establishment, writer etc nothing really of interest may as well move along.
oh muhammad the generic palestinian not the prophet, that is really revolting,
Muhammad is dead, i think they mean Jesus, muslims christians who cares, i mean would the chant moses is dead inconvenience a Jew?
Abu Bakr arrived and said, "Sit down, O 'Umar!" But 'Umar refused to sit down. So the people came to Abu Bakr and left Umar. Abu Bakr said, "To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship God, then God is Alive and shall never die. God said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Me in the least and I will reward the grateful." (3.144)"
Abu Bakr to the Muslims, especially Omar ibni al-Khatab who refused to believe that the Prophet was dead. So we all agree on that then, cool, are they closet Muslims perhaps, but then Kahan Chai.
of course both sides should be condemned equally for the use of flags, or not it all depends on the slater calculus did the Palestinian flags have any real hope of winning,
is submission the only moral choice available,
like the Protestant marches in Ulster except unbelievably even more revolting, at least the prods perform astonishing feats of early morning drinking prior to parading in their sashes and bowlers.
mankind originated in Australia? so Levantine history is not your only area of expertise. but the rest of this brief comment is just the most astonishing historical ignorance history says our man from Slavonia its been zionism all the way back to the beginning, i think oleg is a crappy little Turing machine probably made in Korea. All colonialists end up with a despairing version of human history which is all slaughter and pillage, except there is no record of such a "history".
who is denying that of course Judaism comes from the middle east, middle eastern jews have a long history but to confuse that history with the extraordinary privileges zionists grant themselves is stretching the point beyond any sense. Jews have long histories in the balkans in southern europe in central asia, meaning what exactly?
all the peoples of the region including the Palestinians have a long continuous and ongoing history in the region, the rooting of current political arrangements in the region based on largely mythic, rather than the real history of region is one problem the notion of basing rights to nationality, freedom of movement etc on these histories is absurd, the middle east is like the rest of the planet in the 21st century, native americans have long a history on the amercian continent which means that......perhaps you could complete that sentence for me.
as if the people of the region dont know this my own tribe the 'Awf were at one time both Hejazi and of the Jewish faith what rights can i derive from that fact, it is an evation and condescending at best, we know our history, of course it could be argued that italians have a long history in the region greeks also...which means what? should the Greeks get Ugarit, where Greece learned to read and write.
so what are you actually saying? what has this to do with zionist settler colonialism, it doesnt make it any more acceptable, well not to me though of course luminaries such as Nadine Gordimer thought that at least Zionists had a claim on the land they stole in contra-distinction to the Boers, who had at least been resident for a century or two in the site of their crimes, i am puzzled by this, though grateful that you want to teach us our history how selfless of you and its not even like you have anything to gain, so often when trying to discuss this matter with Europeans one is left with the impression of talking to utterly irrational ideologues, the people of the region will ultimately decide what they will accept, as is their right, conversations about the historical connections of Judaism to the region are at best irrelevant, like the indigenes have no history , as if, i am not really impressed by the depth of historical knowledge displayed by Europeans when it comes to the middle east. It is the history of the Palestinians, relabeled like hummus, as Israeli or Jewish, like a conjuring trick, Arab Jews have a long history in the region, this gives no rights to Jews hailing from outside, they are foreigners despite their Arab Manque habits. We know our history, thanks for asking, it provides no basis for or mitigation of Zionism.
"El Matzri" what are they unleavened or something, Masr' egypt Masri Egyptian, but it isnt it weird Palestine is part of the middle east and there you find middle easterners, part of my Arab family comes from Nablus, Palestine was on planet earth at one time and many of her people have connections to other earthlings and part of it is from Egypt, what of it?
what is the difference between thugs like oleg and dissimulators like tokyo "jews are a natural part of the ME" BK. both purvey studied ignorance at every opportunity.
Just seen Rafeef Ziadah at the Pavilion in Cork, courtesy IPSC it finished 20 minutes ago, the audience of 200 maybe 30 arabs the rest irish went crazy also that lebanese guy Mansour who did well and unnamed guy from the golan and a great arab female vocalist. she made me think of Fairuz's Sanaraj3ou yawman : "heart dont drop weary on the road to our return"
link to youtube.com
yup saying blacks are better than palestinians means you are not (not) a racist.
"relatively very few Whites were killed." "relatively very few to what", the number of palestinians killed or the vast number of Israeli butchered while delivering refugee Haitian babies?
Have you checked with your erstwhile afrikaner racist allies if they think "relatively very few of them" were killed, actually you could learn a thing from them during the period the south african government was french kissing deplorable zionists they killed about 1.5 million africans in the states to their immediate north, mozambique and angola etc, they got away scot free, but you came to the levant, things work differently there, white privilege only gets you so far and they started a couple of centuries before you. i agree if you are going to rape a girl choose one who wont hold it against you.
and when will tens of thousands of americans take to the streets to protest stuff like this closer to home so to speak
link to channel4.com
liberals are pretty small beer, pace Falstaff, we need some sack.
also as i see the great J Slater is posting anodyne one liners i thought of this which some may find interesting, just war and jihad.
link to claremont.academia.edu
Apartheid and the medical training of Black Doctors.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Mandela and the Church Street Bombing
link to netcomuk.co.uk
you'll enjoy the second link its racist BS which is very much to your taste, is lazy and stupid a requirement for hasbara work i could do it what are the rates, your line manager must be a moron.
BISHOP DESMOND TUTU, the South African Nobel Prize winner, described how he saw on his visit to Israel "much like what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about" (1). Comparisons between apartheid South Africa and Israel/Palestine have often been made, but not always clearly explained. Many factors have made the comparison attractive.
link to mondediplo.com
"agree. I live near one of the big housing commission blocks in Melbourne with a large African population, a lot of Sudanese and Somali refugees."
ah yes i have been there near st vincent hospital, only place i could find foul medammes in the city, loads out by roxburgh (?) park, many arabs and arabic shops, syrians and lebanese, and sri lankans, i lived on rotis and foul, everybody rubs along very well, i got to know a lot of Sri lankans who seemed very chatty and at ease, katta sambol is delicious and lunimaris (?)
a friend works for the local municipality, putting up signs designating one or other tribe as "tradtional owners" of the land on city buildings, i couldnt help but conclude that "traditional" ownership is to ownership, what obama is to change, i'd be pissed off to be robbed of a whole continent, treated like a brute and then be fobbed off with a brass plaque, i found no black conciousness in Oz amongst the longstanding immigrants, i noticed a whole lot of anti-indigenous racism, both casual and passionate.
as to ghettos why not if they want, whats wrong with a voluntary ghetto, integration, even though i have participated in the formal process and various strategies in various countries i still have no clue what is meant by it, it doesnt seem to mean people doing what they want which is what i would recommend, are rich people and poor integrated? if not why not.
I saw a young white skater dude get badly chopped up by some "asian" boys, possibly vietnamese in st. kilda's by the beach, while watching the amazing kite boarding skills of the locals, well i was amazed they were spectacular, the stabbing was apparently related to tensions about drug selling territory so the cops claimed, i didnt see any street dealing. he was not that badly hurt nasty slice across shoulder and deep gash on the forearm and back of the head, he trembled a bit but on the whole he coped.
No that is accusations of Zina (adultery)
"During the time of the Prophet (saw) punishment was inflicted on the rapist on the solitary evidence of the woman who was raped by him. Wa'il ibn Hujr reports of an incident when a woman was raped. Later, when some people came by, she identified and accused the man of raping her. They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allâh has forgiven you," but of the man who had raped her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)
During the time when Umar (raa) was the Khalifah, a woman accused his son Abu Shahmah of raping her; she brought the infant borne of this incident with her to the mosque and publicly spoke about what had happened. Umar (raa) asked his son who acknowledged committing the crime and was duly punished right there and then. There was no punishment given to the woman. (Rauf)
Islamic legal scholars interpret rape as a crime in the category of Hiraba. In ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’, hiraba is described as: ‘a single person or group of people causing public disruption, killing, forcibly taking property or money, attacking or raping women (hatk al ‘arad), killing cattle, or disrupting agriculture.’
The famous jurist, Ibn Hazm, had the widest definition of hiraba, defining a hiraba offender as: ‘One who puts people in fear on the road, whether or not with a weapon, at night or day, in urban areas or in open spaces, in the palace of a caliph or a mosque, with or without accomplices, in the desert or in the village, in a large or small city, with one or more people… making people fear that they’ll be killed, or have money taken, or be raped (hatk al ‘arad)… whether the attackers are one or many."
Al-Dasuqi held that if a person forced a woman to have sex, his actions would be deemed as committing hiraba. In addition, the Maliki judge Ibn ‘Arabi, relates a story in which a group was attacked and a woman in their party was raped. Responding to the argument that the crime did not constitute hiraba because no money was taken and no weapons used, Ibn ‘Arabi replied indignantly that "hiraba with the private parts" is much worse than hiraba involving the taking of money, and that anyone would rather be subjected to the latter than the former.
The crime of rape is classified not as a subcategory of ‘zina’ (consensual adultery), but rather as a separate crime of violence under hiraba. This classification is logical, as the "taking" is of the victim’s property (the rape victim’s sexual autonomy) by force. In Islam, sexual autonomy and pleasure is a fundamental right for both women and men (Ghazâlî); taking by force someone’s right to control the sexual activity of one’s body is thus a form of hiraba.
Rape as hiraba is a violent crime that uses sexual intercourse as a weapon. The focus in a hiraba prosecution is the accused rapist and his intent and physical actions, and not second-guessing the consent of the rape victim. Hiraba does not require four witnesses to prove the offense, circumstantial evidence, medical data and expert testimony form the evidence used to prosecute such crimes.
Islamic legal responses to rape are not limited to a criminal prosecution for hiraba. Islamic jurisprudence also provides an avenue for civil redress for a rape survivor in its law of "jirah" (wounds). Islamic law designates ownership rights to each part of one’s body, and a right to corresponding compensation for any harm done unlawfully to any of those parts. Islamic law calls this the ‘law of jirah’ (wounds). Harm to a sexual organ, therefore, entitles the person harmed to appropriate financial compensation under classical Islamic jirah jurisprudence. Each school of Islamic law has held that where a woman is harmed through sexual intercourse (some include marital intercourse), she is entitled to financial compensation for the harm. Further, where this intercourse was without the consent of the woman, the perpetrator must pay the woman both the basic compensation for the harm, as well as an additional amount based on the ‘diyya’ (financial compensation for murder, akin to a wrongful death payment)."
link to muslimaccess.com
"we still unfortunately use because they are convenient." i mean you are obviously an under cover brother from jenin,
"convenient"
bobby sands was given a ridiculous sentence i believe life, he wrote a song "i wish i was back home in derry" performed by christy moore, he was convicted of having an unloaded hand gun in a protestant state where catholics enjoyed only limited rights by both formal and informal discrimination, their achievement of legal parity with their protestant co citizens concluded an uninterrupted 8 hundred struggle for the full rights of citizenship in their native land of the indigenous irish people, sands death and that of 10 others was the beginning of the end for protestant formal dominance of the state an inconvenience no doubt to some.
"So, this is fostering both hate against 2 quite different religions — Islam and Sikhism."
well Sikhism is syncretic, incorporating a lot of Sufi (Islamic) and Hindu forms and ideas, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh holy book contains many poetic passages praising Allah.
"The Granth was compiled by the fifth Sikh guru, Guru Arjan Dev ji. He undertook the enormous task of collecting, compiling, and scrutinizing the hymns and compositions of Guru Nanak and his predecessors. He decided to include not only the hymns of the Gurus but also that of other saints. At the invitation of the Guru, followers of different sects, both Hindu and Muslim, came to the Guru and recited the hymns of their teachers. Guru Arjan chose only those hymns which echoed sentiments he wanted to inculcate in his own community. After the selections were made, the Guru dictated the hymns to Bhai Gurdas ji, who wrote the Granth Sahib."
link to sikhismguide.org
and
"The Sikh Scriptures, The Sri Guru Granth Sahib contains the word Allah as a reference to God in a few places. It also refers to God in a number of different ways"
and
"The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Musalman prayer are the same; all men are the same; it is through error they appear different. Deities, demons, Yakshas, heavenly singers, Musalmans and Hindus adopt the customary dress of their different countries. All men have the same eyes, the same ears, the same body, the same build, a compound of earth, air, fire, and water. Allah and Abhekh are the same, the Purans and the Quran are the same; they are all alike; it is the one God who created all. The Hindu God and the Muhammadan God are the same; let no man even by mistake suppose there is a difference." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustat, pg. 275)
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1349)
i reckon americans need to get out more, the notion of religions which all spring from the same essentially perso- arab cultural commonwhealth ie christianity, judaism and islam as being at war is uniquely european and has always accompanied the imposition of communalism in the furtherance of empire,
Shah Wali Allah, the indian nationalist and anti-imperialist theorist, his son or grandson (dont recall) was killed fighting Sikhs, while thats true the causus belli was acquiescence to british rule.
fair enough however these rights are inalienable and its not for anyone to decide other than the those who bear these rights, or to enter into some weird "negotiations" on behalf of Palestinians, whats wrong with everyone going home, because it will inconvenience the colonists? so what.
the fact is the people of region reject the notion that outsiders, ie the west who have been responsible for awesome slaughter and destruction in this region over the last three centuries (see Dr. Gideon Polya for the astonishing figures) are going to suggest that the lowly denizens of the levant can access a limited set of "rights" that accommodate a brutal settler colonialist enterprise, we utterly reject this, all rights must be respected in full, its the only way forward.
What rights are you Americans willing to cede for world peace and humanities survival, how many of your inalienable rights will you give up, say 55% of the continental USA, why is it that our humanity can be attenuated but not yours, we are not lesser beings. It is incumbent on all people, all of whom have international responsibilities, to support the full application of international law and all relevant treaties. We do not accept that our region can be subjected to settler colonization, why should we? i dont mean to be rude, and very much appreciate your interest, courage and forthright rejection of this global Jim Crow, its just so upsetting, perhaps i should wait for those Mooser comments to lighten my mood.
You in the states cant even help yourselves you can do nothing for us, while your state is looted and your compatriots tremble in a febrile stupor about exploding underwear and triumphant Minarets, we respect the fact that the right in the USA is brave, brutal and murderous the "left" seems incapable of anything more than pious platitudes, a political maxim that seems to work very well for non-euro/americans is never trust a white man, its worked quite well for me but then i am half white, if such is indeed possible, i remember the shactmanites and the duplicity of ICG in the seventies, in terms of anti-colonialism, which many young white guys felt was objectively progressive, its all so depressing, you could learn a lot from the Palestinians, Hammas and Hizbollah, at the very least how to actually resist, i await a real American revolution, what do you think are the chances? anymore than 0%.
all the best etc.
"I support a limited RoR for Palestinians (w/ compensation in lieu)."
but its not your right to decide, you either support universal human rights or you dont, these are not your rights to cede.
In case you missed it
False Prophets of Peace
Liberal Zionism and the Struggle for Palestine
Palestine
By Tikva Honig-Parnass
This book refutes the long held view of the Israeli left as adhering to a humanistic, democratic and even socialist tradition, attributed to the historic Zionist Labor movement. Through a critical analysis of the prevailing discourse of Zionist intellectuals and activists on the Jewish-democratic state, it uncovers the Zionist left’s central role in laying the foundation of the colonial settler state of Israel, in articulating its hegemonic ideology and in legitimizing, whether explicitly or implicitly, the apartheid treatment of Palestinians both inside Israel and in the 1967 occupied territories. Their determined support of a Jewish-only state underlies the failure of the “peace process,” initiated by the Zionist Left, to reach a just peace based on recognition of the national rights of the entire Palestinian people.
About the author
Tikva Honig-Parnass was raised in the Jewish community of pre-state Palestine, fought in the 1948 war and served as the secretary of the then Radical Left Zionist Party of Mapam (The Unified Workers Party) in the Knesset ( 1951-1954). In '60 she definitively broke with Zionism and joined the ranks of the Israeli Socialist Organization, known as "Matzpen". Since then she has played an active role in the movement against the '67 occupation as well as in the struggle for the Palestinian national rights. She co-edited Between the Lines with Toufic Haddad
link to haymarketbooks.org
well the mukhtar of aqaba must have blood on his hands or at the very least somewhere below the bullet hole the IOF put in him, zionism the say anything ideology.
"What a frightful word ‘shebab’ to use for the children attacking at the Gaza border."
what a frightful word "men" is when used in other contexts, the word of course "connotes" the "minute-men" that racist organization affiliated with the US government.
"al-Shabaab which is a Somali-based terrorist cell of al-Qaida."
al-qaida in the horn of plenty, its clear consumption of propaganda leads to precipitate loss of IQ points.
There is actually an interesting aside here, the Israelis have so humiliated the parents that the 1st intifada was also a revolt against the quietism of the older generation who have little or no authority over the youth, as a result of their inability to resist zionist colonization, you want the kids to respect their elders perhaps you should show them how.
There is no border just a prison wall, "blatant propaganda opportunism" its a struggle for freedom, but hey who cares "shebab" just means the guys obviously but then you knew that, idiot.
zionism above all is so boring and idiotic, like all colonial ideologies it relies on racist grotesqueries, so what do the guys have to accept while they live rightless under the zionist jackboot, oh yes a "jewish" state on their land and an aparthied system in their own homes, reasonable to some perhaps. all depends on how you look at it, as officer Coon (which connotes what) said of the Rodney King beating.
ah yes obviously, al-qaida or is it le cadeau, sarko suddenly doing well he is going to win the election, with the promise to crush muslim extremism (again). Though we will all avidly read the vapid condemnations and pointless moral evaluations of the act, actor and pronouncements of the various parties, who will bomb toulouse, or the Quai d'Orsay, (a small lawless region of the left bank in the tribal territories of the Franks)
link to activistpost.com
"but aren’t they pretty bad already?"
You need to look on the bright side however bad they are now they are going to get a whole lot worse, enjoy it while lasts.
I think the whole "zionist lobby" stuff is vastly overly played, zionist power consists of being ideological and political managers on behalf of the transnational empire head-quatered in America. the scene is in the process of changing, this whole ludicrous Jews run America and are wagging the goyish hound are deeply worrying this is perhaps a bit off topic, but
let a ragged assed muslim( publically practising vajrayana/dzogchen buddhism my whole adult life) so not too many friends amongst my bretheren though to be fair they were always tolerant if exasperated, but my world collapsed and the two people who actually extended me any humanity at all, were the Chief Rabbi and a Zionist billionaire, i am suffused with warmth just recollecting their incredible personal kindness, especially during my late mothers final days, the Zionist billionaire was the only person and his converted wife, came to visit her on the death bed. the Rabbi is a bit of buffoon and got himself into all sorts of problems but what can i say he was needlessly kind to me personally and didnt in anyway benefit, quite the opposite.
the zionist was sweet but you know ditzy he loved my old school father, they had a very warm personal relationship and established some organizations etc but when ever the big Z would start on some Hasbara type stuff the old man would gently tell him to shut up, which he seemed to appreciate, and was always unfailingly gracious, he was from Hungary and very old school too as was my late father but from egypt and Al-Azhar, the last generation to be trained in the old Socratic method, he attributed fundamentalism to the evolving modular nature of courses at AlAzhar and other Madrassas and the general decline of the culture of spiritual developement, positivism (in which he was a believer having been a student of Hans Eysenck at London University in the early fifties sent by Al-Azhar to learn some science) and the changing nature of life.
let me say as i live out my days insecure, careful of every word i utter unemployable because of my past associations, and to be fair my outrageous behavior, Jewish Americans now blithely wondering just how staggeringly powerful they are, are going to soon find it is all an illusion, this crisis is systemic it is going to managed by means of low intensity conflict (a complete strategy of vassal state management not to say ideology) in the imperial space and austerity ( also a whole coherent policy, see eric lichten's "class austerity power" NYC circa 75 was the testing ground) on the home front. So yeah what happens when that really bites just how popular are the media created notion of the disproportionate Jewishness of the managers and beneficiaries of this system going to be, the old narratives are exhausted, new ones will be needed
wow it's all there, you know the world is not as solid as it looks things are changing and actually in the name of our all to obvious common humanity i fear for you, i am fucked anyway its my own fault i am brave rather intelligent and felt for those who have to struggle to survive and never cultivated plutocrats lived in the ghetto, because its great if a bit tough etc, but professionally i have been involved with all sorts of state-managers, politicians the policy process etc. i was a professional muslim, never once used the mosque in my institution no one messed with me, occasionally dragged myself into work hungover no doubt reeking of alcohol, no one ever said anything, we trained imams for the european environment,
i have never met a human being that i am superior too, or am able to judge, your hauteur and sense of invulnerability is more illusion than anything else, read some Issac Rosenberg, and this is not just obviously a threat to Jews as such, after all its never rothschild, makhtoum, behbehani, ibn saud, Spencer etc who suffer,
Democratic illusions are exhausted, with the explosion of poverty at home and consequent repression and social stress, a load of preppy zionists and counter cultural jews and wealthy bankers etc, are an easy target and perfect distraction also maybe the managers need a little disciplining, china is rising south and central asia are theaters of war but the conflict is coming home of course it always does, the 1st world war started what 3?years after the battle of Omdurman.
Already it is zionist or more ominously Jews who fomented war, what happens when they mange austerity, its not going to be pogroms i am sure but your lives are going to change "israel-firster", the controversy of Norman G, boeski, ronson, levine Madoff, etc there is a narrative there, sorry its the buddhism i dont believe there is any underlying reality, it makes conversation difficult, i am reminded of Samuel Roths "The Jews Must Live" whose veracity i am unable to judge but it is a coherent tale of" Jewish" financial and political manipulation full of melancholy invective
i personally feel that in all this, to reverse the normal flow of interrogation that islamists, currently dying in support of your cause ( yes they are supporting you, whatever their vile personal habits), resistance to a merciless and insatiable empire, i think they have the right to ask where is the euro/american left, whats up! i guess something fairly grave is going to happen in or over the next decade or so, what i am clumsily trying to show is the already deep and longstanding interpenetration and interpdependence of this world, we are not some mysterious encultured other, personally i never really know who we is i guess everyone. oh and i am not in anyway criticizing views in this thread by the worrying nature of the discourse i am not in anyway taking a position on lobby fetishism or other such stuff, i think the lobby like the FBI have numerous roles with in the system and am generally ignorant of american conditions and dont think i will be visiting anytime soon.
“Village Stability Operations”
what were those in vietnam fortified villages/hamlets ah googled strategic hamlets, so in the course of a pacification program one teams massacre got reported, there was only one my lai, totally unrelated to the COI strategy being deployed, its called terror against terror, in reality its terror against resistance.
"killed after some “holy books” got burned." what do you think holy means and why quotation marks around books, arent they books at least, oh of course those droll natives probably havent had your sophisticated education and are caught in some medieval bullshit, but
"I would consider that to be an equally immoral act." well you know, now cant really be bothered but your soldiers are killing them in their homes they are defending themselves, i suspect you havent a clue what "morality" is but your empty urbane condescension, rather like the hold out racist/thwarted father in "twelve angry men" (lee j cobb) is going to end in a cathartic flood of tears when the whole world turns its back on your barely concealed racism, then you can give that crap up, in the meantime we arent interested in your empty mores we will fight with what we've got and you can take your smug b-52 agent orange 2 atomic bombs bury my heart at wounded knee appeals to some chimerical "morality" supercilious prattle and shove it. also we should burn the embassy, oh no "you" wouldn't support any rudeness at all, in fact day time tv often shows accurate (very accurate) old movies of noble folk liberating themselves from all sorts of oppressive yokes its always so upsetting when people misbehave when we are conquering them, and dont live up to some crap you have concocted in the slater matrix, shit man, drop this sick act. The colonizer doesnt have good manners, urbanity and morality on their side, except in your imagination. do you see that your whole contribution is indicative of a profound inner dissonance you are going to have admit it to yourself it aint hip to be square. you are not in any position to judge them drop the prejudice drop it and walk away then it can never hurt you again, might i recommend Dr. Hans-Georg Moller's "The Moral Fool". it will help you be less "jejeune".
but really what do you think the moral status of your condemnation is what good is it, whats it for...? or are you just sayin'
"Saudi Arabia by the way roads only for Muslims", you mean the road to mecca where saudis dont allow non-muslims, your point being? or which other ones did you have in mind, saudi arabia that gives full expression to regressive muslimness, when do we invade those dirty bastards and where are the fugees from their state formation, apart from (and kuwait and most gulf states) the stateless Bedou, my surname means bedouin in arabic we dont get a fair deal but then i am not nor were my family bedou we adopted the name 70 years or so ago after a big family falling out over inheritance, we was robbed, so in a couple of hundred years my descendents can rampage all over the empty quarter reclaiming our heritage. but i am related to people who were bedou oh er 1000 years ago, so i am moving to montana soon (going to be a dental floss tycoon) if you know what i mean. history if you take it uncritically its going to screw you up.
"who’s counting? Who cares?'
well yes but,
100,000 deaths, and using IBC, come on i thought holocaust denial was banned, so if I say 600,000 Jews died in the war, oh i see not if its in the article, still, 10% of the accepted figure, if you believe in that science and rationality we hear so much about, the credible estimates ORB poll Lancet studies, put it between 800,000 and 1.4 million why use IBC whose methods couldnt credibly catch all but a tiny fraction of the deaths, it is kind of shameful. Doesnt really sit well the intent of the piece.
."the man is a Holocaust-denier and an anti-Semite" and Israeli, isnt it weird that the worlds most celebrated current anti-semites are both Israeli Jews, Atzmon and Shamir, (leaving aside Paul Eisen of deir yassin remembered).
As to bringing Jews and Muslims together that train ran off the lines sometime ago, i think you'll find Muslims arent that interested in getting close anymore the last dialogue i participated in was 1996, in Germany, the Israelis behaved abominably and the Germans stroked them like cats. they fought with the British Jews which was quite funny but not very productive.
We would like to you to sort your shit out, we dont really want to be friends you are not all that, i personally like to hang with Jamaicans, uptight self righteous and paranoid Jews constantly seeking affirmation and checking me for acceptability are a drag, the Sikhs might be good for a date though, or perhaps the Jains.
110% Respect MJ.
"I admire adnans personal courage but being that he is essentially a political figure I think his political position should be placed under scrutiny."
sure but he is not the only one whose positions need examining, are you really impressed by "western" liberal values, and being that Adnan is primarily a victim of unconscionable oppression he is only incidentally a "political figure" for example does Jacob Zuma's clearly expressed sexism obviate his right to equality before the law with his white co-nationals, some of whom may indeed espouse anti-sexist views.
"Why human rights are wrong
Human rights conflict with the principle of moral autonomy, and form an excuse for oppression. Any harm to others can be justified by claiming that it is intended to respect certain 'rights', even if the victim does not know of their existence. Revised June 2004.
A Serbian or Iraqi child who is shot to enforce human rights, suffers just as much pain, as an American or British child. Yet the US and British governments do not kill or injure their own citizens, to protect their human rights. That fate is reserved for Eastern Europeans, Arabs, Africans, and Asians. The western human rights lobby claims, that it is wrong to deny people human rights. They claim opposition to human rights is based on 'ethical relativism', and that their own 'moral universalism' is superior. Yet they would not bomb their own cities like they bombed Belgrade or Falluja or remote Afghan villages. Clearly, the 'moral universalism' of the human rights lobby is itself relative: it is turned on and off to conform to geopolitical interests. It was never much more than a propaganda slogan anyway.
Increasingly, the doctrine of human rights is itself a cause of suffering, oppression and injustice. Increasingly, the argument that superpowers have a 'moral duty' to enforce human rights, is used in the same way as the doctrine of the 'civilising mission' once was used to justify colonialism. Since this was first written, it appears that the civilising mission - or at least crusades in defence of western civilisation - are not quite dead yet. American reactions to the attacks of 11 September 2001 have re-emphasised the so-called "Clash of Civilizations". In that vision of history and geopolitics, democracy, freedom, and human rights are seen as universally valid, and yet historically specific to western civilisation. They are seen as a gift, which the West must bring to the rest of the world, or at least defend against the rest of the world. The position presented below is a rejection of human rights, without any appeal to cultural relativism or ethical relativism.
Human rights, sovereignty and military intervention
Universal human rights and sovereignty are two separate issues. It is possible to believe in universal human rights, but also in national sovereignty. In fact, until recently, this was the standard view among foreign policy elites."
link to web.inter.nl.net
might i recommend.
Imperialism, Sovereignty and the Making of International Law (Cambridge Studies in International and Comparative Law) [Paperback]
link to amazon.co.uk
wow dr. bruce cockburn, wow! so not all canadians are etiolated and bland, another prejudice bits the dust...
"if i had a rocket launcher"
Lyrics:
Here comes the helicopter -- second time today
Everybody scatters and hopes it goes away
How many kids they've murdered only God can say
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay
I don't believe in guarded borders and I don't believe in hate
I don't believe in generals or their stinking torture states
And when I talk with the survivors of things too sickening to relate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would retaliate
On the Rio Lacantun, one hundred thousand wait
To fall down from starvation -- or some less humane fate
Cry for guatemala, with a corpse in every gate
If I had a rocket launcher...I would not hesitate
I want to raise every voice -- at least I've got to try
Every time I think about it water rises to my eyes.
Situation desperate, echoes of the victims cry
If I had a rocket launcher...Some son of a b###h would die
link to youtube.com
but it aint just if you dont win eh!
and
Lyrics:
padded with power here they come
international loan sharks backed by the guns
of market hungry military profiteers
whose word is a swamp and whose brow is smeared
with the blood of the poor
who rob life of its quality
who render rage a necessity
by turning countries into labour camps
modern slavers in drag as champions of freedom
sinister cynical instrument
who makes the gun into a sacrament--
the only response to the deification
of tyranny by so-called "developed" nations'
idolatry of ideology
north south east west
kill the best and buy the rest
it's just spend a buck to make a buck
you don't give a flying ####
about the people in misery
IMF dirty MF
takes away everything it can get
always making certain that there's one thing left
keep them on the hook with insupportable debt
see the paid-off local bottom feeders
passing themselves off as leaders
kiss the ladies shake hands with the fellows
open for business like a cheap bordello
and they call it democracy
and they call it democracy
and they call it democracy
and they call it democracy
see the loaded eyes of the children too
trying to make the best of it the way kids do
one day you're going to rise from your habitual feast
to find yourself staring down the throat of the beast
they call the revolution.
wow someone should drop dr cockburn a line apparently he has some idea why people are calling for a revolution, there isnt any peace anywhere to disturb, 800 militayr bases, and still one ponders what and who is the source of violence, yes i know its the unarmed, dangerous bastards.
link to youtube.com
sorry didnt know it was a term of contempt, seriously i rather like the word. i am in fact a rootless cosmopolitan myself, but then i was attacked physically for using the word half-caste to describe myself, i seem to miss the meetings where offensive epiphets are defined.
peace is not the responsibility of those being aggressed, i am amazed that zionists, in their overweening arrogance do not perceive the profound dangers threatening the US jewish and non-jewish "progressive" community.
no insult intended, i dont speak any language fluently anymore and am a bit freaked having engaged in a formal government sponsored integration project here which turned out to be a platform for the propagation of some serious BS about muslims, whom i was taken to represent, and then silenced by a hysterical priest, when i tried to engage with it.
we all want peace, happiness and prosperity, even for zionists, but we as subjects, i am not Palestinian my father came from sharkiya prov egypt which some zionists claim (they can have it) and we cant keep the peace, or survive much more "angst" about our "violence". we are already at peace, we just cant defend ourselves and you are going to realise sooner rather than later how this world has changed, and i really mean it is one love, i love all of my sacred bretheren and sisteren, there is great wisdom in the ghettos of the west, i reckon you would all do well to learn from the meanest and poorest in your midst, the despised are guardians of the greatest treasures of the human spirit.
so galut is an insult ok got it sorry. but lets be clear people like me have no friends and are able to sustain our little lives under conditions of insecurity and anathematization, because we have to be strong to hold our place anyway, the zionist project is going to exact an enormous price from the jewish community you genuinely have my sympathy, but we in the east, as i say, can not ensure peace or peaceful transformation, its going to be bloody, it is already, its just that no one fully human or important has yet been inconvenienced, i once wrote that America is suffering from "the necrosis of always winning" the cure is on its way. bon sante.
ever since the curse of slater this site has become a little unintentionally funny, maybe its a ziocaine contact high, its very sticky you know
its not that Palestinian lives alone are cheap, so are their rights, everyone wants to give some of them away, and attenuate their humanity, we all hope for the peaceful application of all relevant laws as we sleep walk into what is going to be a really major crisis,
in greece democracy is suspended and the country's elite is petulantly agreeing to rape, "we have its consent jim but its not democratic consent", soon its going to be Gaza everywhere, why do governments suspend habeus corpus and arrogate rights to themselves to act against citizens and others with all sorts of penal and lethal mechanisms, clearly we can't have any democracy while we are protecting and exporting democracy, probs nothing to worry about, when they say indefinite detention or death, they dont mean you, can you see any raging muslim insurrection in your county, no ! i'd worry then, but just think when you peacefully resist that hellfire, and no one be able to criticize your violence, you will have generated one gandhi of virtuous peace as your organs evaporate into mist, morally you will be the victor .
those carrying the burdens of superior intellect and pedigree can put them down at any old way station, its all one love you know.
"This post is not an endorsement of revolution. I am for a peaceful transition in Israel and Palestine." well good for you, but you dont own our right to resist, and the violence is courtesy the oppressor. so the nature of the thawra is up to the criminal oppressor,
"But this video is important because Hassona is only reflecting widespread desperation among Palestinians." well no they are not desperate they are resolute, they are in the right and they dont need anyones endorsement, we are glad that you at least are able to tolerate the status quo, until peaceful change is effected, how is that going to work, oh yes Palestinians could ask for almost nothing, el hakawati had a great play in the 90's about the end of the criminal oppression of zionism.
"Everywhere I went I met people who had hoped that the peace process would produce a normal society for them." i seriously doubt it but they certainly know better now.
is self centered condescension a cherished cultural trait of the galut. you and your ilk will not save us and the astonishing lengths Palestinians have gone too to make space for peace have been rebuffed, i'd check with the colonizers about their commitment to peacefully continue the savage oppression of the revolutionaries. Fetishization of Palestinian resistant "violence" is deeply dishonest.
Lan ya murra, or something like that.
"Israel doesn’t have the cushions a normal, peaceful Western state can afford."
western nations peaceful and normal, which western nations US no UK no France oh no, Nederlands, not really, Norway, well all those weapons they sell, actually western nations arent really normally very peaceful, well they werent last century, were they? thank civilization this new century is basking in western normality and peaciness, Krauss my man the racism implicit in that statement is really out their, western peace! two world wars two atomic bombs endless colonial slaughters stretching back 1/2 a millennium, but i get you western nations normal (wilders, bachman, santorum, romney, sarkozy, cameron some greek dude etc) and peaceful, complacent lazy eurocentrism with a side order of barely concealed racist contempt, PNAC the list is too long, perhaps miscegenation has clouded my normality because i for one am not seeing it could you elaborate about the cushions, are they armed and how many megatons could they deliver or what are the cushions, i must know.
ah yes as in the "Utes must go" from Dee Browns Bury my heart...collaboration is a complex issue.
"I believe war lord (cannot remember his name)"= Rashid Dostum, irony in arabic and dari(?) or some other sort of persian. sort of may mean upright or guided friend, Dostum is cool if you like blood soaked sadistic mass murderers, always good to have guys like Rashid along when you are humanitarianly intervening among the savage tribes, in particular the women of afghanistan must be thrilled by his new found american sponsored authority, to be fair the convoy of death is hardly his most exciting exploit, he has done really deeply disturbing stuff, him and that hekmatyar guy who is my particular bogeyman, the US gave hekman 600million i am told back when the ussr was in afghanistan (at the invitation of the then secular socialist government, but that was before the end of history).
"Palestine Citizenship Order in the 20s". which excluded about 40'000 Palestinians not actually present in the territory at the time, it was done to exclude the maximum number of arabs from citizenship and include the maximum number of colonists.
"Palestinians are not Arabs" oh yes they are, what do you think arab means, arab has never meant arabian, the canaanites say they came from the gulf, egyptians are arabs algerians are arabs, our identity was not set 4000 years ago, "Abba Arami Obed", from genesis i think, for the aramaic scholars amongst us. we set our identity not you, are the Khalidi's arabs. Sadly many seem not to know what arab means, please lay of with this ignorant BS, what does Levantine mean for ffs, and how does it exclude urubiyya what does arab imply about our rights to our homes and our identity. iraqi jews are/were arabs, its not so bad i've never minded being one, even though i could be something else, and quite a few arabs tell i am nothing of the kind, my language skills are poor, are there any americans or are they americanized teutons etc, what does that imply. Newt can kiss my chuddies. find me a Pict or a Goth or a Hun or a Vandal before any one talks about arab levantine identity in these ahistoric terms,
A Bin Laden "fatwa" what were his qualification to issue fatawa, none as farm i am aware, he had, i think, not a single ijaaza. so whatever it is, its not a fatwa.
"While Islam has been relatively tolerant of both Christians and Jews as believers in the book, Islam historically has been quite harsh towards infidel that is, secular folk." could you flesh that out a bit, what do you mean by secular folk, say abu ala alma'ari say
"Al-Ma'arri's skepticism of all religions reminds us of Xenophanes, Carvaka, and Lucretius, and does not re-appear in Western thought until the Enlightenment. He was equally sarcastic towards the religions of Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Al-Ma'arri remarked that monks in their cloisters or devotees in their mosques were blindly following the beliefs of their locality: if they were born among Magians or Sabians they would have become Magians or Sabians. Al-Ma'arri was a rationalist who valued reason above tradition or revelation. Like Carvaka he saw religion in general as a human institution invented as a source of power and income for its founders and priesthood, who pursued worldly ends with forged documents attributed to divine inspiration. Like Vardhamana and the Jains, al-Ma'arri believed in the sanctity of life, urging that no living creature should be harmed. He became a vegetarian and opposed all killing of animals, and the use of animal skins for clothing."
er and a wiki
" In fact, religious and political life developed distinct spheres of experience, with independent values, leaders, and organizations. From the middle of the tenth century effective control of the Arab-Muslim empire had passed into the hands of generals, administrators, governors, and local provincial lords; the Caliphs had lost all effective political power. Governments in Islamic lands were henceforth secular regimes - Sultanates - in theory authorized by the Caliphs, but actually legitimized by the need for public order. Henceforth, Muslim states were fully differentiated political bodies without any intrinsic religious character, though they were officially loyal to Islam and committed to its defense.[10]
In the same period, religious communities developed independently of the states or empires that ruled them. The ulama regulated local communal and religious life by serving as judges, administrators, teachers, and religious advisers to Muslims. The religious elites were organized according to religious affiliation into Sunni schools of law, Shi'ite sects, or Sufi tariqas. [...] In the wide range of matters arising from the Shari'a - the Muslim law - the 'ulama' of the schools formed a local administrative and social elite whose authority was based upon religion. Thus though the Muslim madhahib were not organized in the same way as Christian churches, they had many of the religious and social functions we associate with churches. But whether or not we wish to speak of churches, religious organizations, institutions, personnel and activities were clearly separate from the ruling regimes.[11]
As long as two decades ago, Sir Hamilton Gibb, in his essay 'Constitutional Organization', showed that Muslim political thinkers themselves had become aware of the separation of state and religion and recognized the emergence of an autonomous sphere of religious activity and organization. For example, Ibn Taymiyya held that apart from the Caliphate, the ulama constituted the true umma of Islam, and that ruling regimes were 'Muslim' regimes not by any intrinsic quality but by virtue of the support they lent the Muslim religion and religious communities.[12]
In early Islamic philosophy, Averroes presented an argument in The Decisive Treatise providing a justification for the emancipation of science and philosophy from official Ash'ari{ al ashari was a rationalist( mautazalite) dissident, the dominant theology of the first two hundred years of the muslim period) theology, thus Averroism has been considered a precursor to modern secularism.[13][14]"
wonderful summation, opaleye, really cool.
its clear its arab/muslim shooting season, we of course dont hunt israelis or jews, that would be unthinkable. what is really off putting to arab commentators is that this double standard, we must be polite while our whole world is being pounded to bloody dust, is unnoticed or unremarked.
Mr. Weiss was at least agnostic if not actually supportive of the bombing, the actual bombing of libya, but ah no those are just arabs down there, for a moment i was worried, i met a libyan israeli in germany years ago, he was a vicious racist and dissimulator, but i am glad he was not under nato bombs, really you think we regard ourselves as lowly apparently as you see us, if you dont want people to talk about killing you and yours stop attacking us, or grow a pair, whats wrong with US jews that you need to be wrapped in cotton wool. cant you see whats coming you had better man up now.
supposed people of goodwill dont want any harsh words, hitchens talked joyfully of how he and george were going to kill the 'islamofascists', but we the longtime objects of this international lynching, its been going for centuries you know, we were the first civilians to be slaughtered by airpower 25 years before guernica, we have just celebrated the centenary of the inception of terror from the air in Libya circa 1911 by destroying libya from the air circa 2011, in '25 the french destroyed a third of dasmascus in a few minutes but we must watch our words, its so parochial of you.
the israeli regime (zionist entity) favors blunt talk of killing but you imagine that this harsh discourse is only for arabs and the lesser orders. its a farce isnt it this lisping insistence on not intimating that violence may be visited on you, the USA is a merciless power, for the moment you are inside their tent, its not going to last as long USA nationals believe that they have no need of caution what motive have they to stop this awesome slaughter, in africa, asia and latin amercia, in your very own black and latino neighbourhoods, you'd better tell your people to beware no one will escape this oppression without great suffering, bluntly. things are changing and its going to be war and the outcome is far from certain, but the catastrophe is a given and the US jewish community is singularly ill placed for a realignment of forces, hubris, complacency, the vile sophistry of slater and phony gentility wont do you any good. you need to humanize the self, we others dont need you to humanize us our utter humanity is manifest, even if you only see it imperfectly. its like fanon never wrote, perhaps you need to take a long hard look at yourselves. this is of course being written by an arab, on the whole a worthless one, since i have no dog in the better race culture religion person shit, whatever the category i am the lowest, i can be honest with you, your whole society has an air of totalitarianism which you celebrate as good polite rational discourse, every one of the best posters to your comment section was attacked by the senseless anti life argument that "this is unthinkable" you better understand that those with hands on the levers of power will do to you what they are doing to us as Captain Jack of the Modocs said "by and by".
isnt opaleyes account correct, some of your commenters are the only reason i come here, hostage, mooser, american, annie, kalithea, shmuel, samel, avi, and others, you are very lucky to have them, courage mon brave rhetorical bombing does no damage, the only target is exactly what needs destroying your inhuman complacency in the face of this carnage, lets roll eh.
also thanks for the great site and all your work, obviously.
nice leg, that seal is cool, Innanna, looks too bad for an angel, i want one.
budhhists dont even have a God, now now they can have none many or some sort of half way thingies, check out vajrayana deities true you have to believe in them being not really real in the sense that they are not outside you see, your mind is god, really it says in the prayers "until mind itself dawns as Padmasambhava"
also Allah is not derived from Hebrew, Hebrew and Arabic are cognates so the word for god in them comes from that now lost language from which they are both derived, just to be clear. and wiki says:
"it is used primarily by Muslims and Bahá'ís, and often, albeit not exclusively, used by Arabic-speaking Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Mizrahi Jews and Sikhs." so many people to hate, so little time to make shit up.
oh well tis the season etc Allahu Akbar is of course a contraction, for Allahu Akbar min kuli shai or there abouts, which does not mean much, just God is greater than this or greater than everything, ie whatever one is facing, doing or intending. anyway if anyones is interested could check out mn roy an indian marxist on islam and muhammad. top marks for the stupid islamophobic (spell check wants that to be homophobic, so clearly there is a god) shit above though that made my day, yeah they say their god is the best, bastards.
link to marxists.org
many of my egyptian relatives use the surname metwalli, i had never heard of the shia asociation. As to iraq etc not being arab back then, this is a meaningless statement as the research below indicates, a. there were arabs all over the region from long long before the advent of Islam. b. the people became arabised in terms of language, they were not exterminated and replaced by arabians as everyone knows, just by becoming arabised they have neither forgotten their history nor become foreigners in their own lands, identity in the ME is complex, who needs telling that jews are a natural part of the ME, not us, judaism, christianity and paganism were the arab religions in the old days, those egyptian metwallis are part of the banu 'awf tribe, some of whom were of the jewish religion back in the prophets time as evidenced by treaties etc from the period.
Nationalism has not done much for the complex populations of the ME and Balkans, north africa.
the canaanites said they came from the gulf, which was derided by modern scholarship, prior to the discouvery of Dilmun, link to qatartourism.gov.qa
human rights are not determined genetically are they? my genes wouldnt entitle me to much, a damp bog in africa perhaps, if there are any going spare or a desert in europe, i own land in egypt via masha'a system but i think my genes preclude me from forming a state there, who knows and who cares, i am not a natural part of anywhere except wherever i happen to be.
Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians
Robin McKie, science editor
The Observer, Sunday 25 November 2001 11.24 GMT
Article history
A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.
Academics who have already received copies of Human Immunology have been urged to rip out the offending pages and throw them away.
Such a drastic act of self-censorship is unprecedented in research publishing and has created widespread disquiet, generating fears that it may involve the suppression of scientific work that questions Biblical dogma.
'I have authored several hundred scientific papers, some for Nature and Science, and this has never happened to me before,' said the article's lead author, Spanish geneticist Professor Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, of Complutense University in Madrid. 'I am stunned.'
British geneticist Sir Walter Bodmer added: 'If the journal didn't like the paper, they shouldn't have published it in the first place. Why wait until it has appeared before acting like this?'
The journal's editor, Nicole Sucio-Foca, of Columbia University, New York, claims the article provoked such a welter of complaints over its extreme political writing that she was forced to repudiate it. The article has been removed from Human Immunology's website, while letters have been written to libraries and universities throughout the world asking them to ignore or 'preferably to physically remove the relevant pages'. Arnaiz-Villena has been sacked from the journal's editorial board.
Dolly Tyan, president of the American Society of Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, which runs the journal, told subscribers that the society is 'offended and embarrassed'.
The paper, 'The Origin of Palestinians and their Genetic Relatedness with other Mediterranean Populations', involved studying genetic variations in immune system genes among people in the Middle East.
In common with earlier studies, the team found no data to support the idea that Jewish people were genetically distinct from other people in the region. In doing so, the team's research challenges claims that Jews are a special, chosen people and that Judaism can only be inherited.
Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East share a very similar gene pool and must be considered closely related and not genetically separate, the authors state. Rivalry between the two races is therefore based 'in cultural and religious, but not in genetic differences', they conclude.
But the journal, having accepted the paper earlier this year, now claims the article was politically biased and was written using 'inappropriate' remarks about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Its editor told the journal Nature last week that she was threatened by mass resignations from members if she did not retract the article.
Arnaiz-Villena says he has not seen a single one of the accusations made against him, despite being promised the opportunity to look at the letters sent to the journal.
He accepts he used terms in the article that laid him open to criticism. There is one reference to Jewish 'colonists' living in the Gaza strip, and another that refers to Palestinian people living in 'concentration' camps.
'Perhaps I should have used the words settlers instead of colonists, but really, what is the difference?' he said.
'And clearly, I should have said refugee, not concentration, camps, but given that I was referring to settlements outside of Israel - in Syria and Lebanon - that scarcely makes me anti-Jewish. References to the history of the region, the ones that are supposed to be politically offensive, were taken from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, and other text books.'
In the wake of the journal's actions, and claims of mass protests about the article, several scientists have now written to the society to support Arnaiz-Villena and to protest about their heavy-handedness.
One of them said: 'If Arnaiz-Villena had found evidence that Jewish people were genetically very special, instead of ordinary, you can be sure no one would have objected to the phrases he used in his article. This is a very sad business.'
yup we went europe no body ever took my house there or my garden or damaged my olive tree, yes its in a pot on a verandah, the olives are the size of peas, i got 30 one year.
and i was naturalized, in '74, thanks for the concern for my welfare, oh right its just a weak rhetorical trick to obscure the sewer of filth the holy land has become under zionism, meanwhile look what i found in those inner city ghettos so much better at making something of those ancient words than etiolated ersatz pioneers like you
milk and honey
link to youtu.be
and with daddy u-roy
link to youtu.be
keep your sympathy psycho, bring forth milk and honey, you cant convict us of anything except in your paranoid dreams we dont owe anyone the right to colonize us. but your allies in this crime you are right are blood soaked demons its their power you are living on, and boy when they dont need you or lose their sultaniya, where you gonna run, first from nina s then to peter t, the mountians they will be boiling, it could have been so different, you dont represent jews our bretheren, you represent the worst distillation of Europes barbarity, savage injustice. you have the gall to point at the violence zionism caused and claim that by some weird metric it justifies colonization, you are out of your tiny mind, their crimes do not hide yours.
perhaps as in " This day are(all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them." Quran (5:5)
i am not qualified to determine kosher or trief(?). but then i eat anything gratefully, muslims were one of the bigger consumers of kosher meat in London, prior to the proliferation of halal suppliers, also if i pass my hand over wine it is still kosher, not so for Christians, lucky me.
ah hittin, pz, you should visit it while you still can, if you know 'your' countries history, the horns of hattin, or hittin, Guy and Baldwin thirsty and confused on the plain.
but then history aint your strong suit clearly, except deceptively selective citation, what was the retribution visited on hittin by wingate, who killed himself after years of doing the empires dirtiest work, strange that zionist freedom fighters would associate with that type of a guy, imperial storm-trooper. strangely i am told its unmarked in israel, we will infect your dreams with madness.
so see ya at the horns.
The main point is of course is that Egypt in particular has been frustrated in its attempts to modernize. the chinese buddhist monk Taixu undertook a thorough modernization of buddhist education, coining a new term for it.
But china was independent, Egypt ruled by Britain, was not able to pull it off.
It would take some time to explain the reality of the social and gender relations in Egypt, but suffice it to say the main division is class, Egypt is class ridden to an horrific extent, you remember that scene in the Yackoubian Building, where the guy goes for a job with the police and the key question is what does your father do, ah a janitor the lowest job available, they laugh and dismiss him.
Egyptians are very politically aware, and were like most 3rd world people a generation ago very socialist and this remains, but the terrible situation of feminists and others caught between huminatarian interventionists and no nothing proscriptive "scholars" is getting worse by the minute.
Lets just look at the role of "political" islam.
The muslims are of course well aware that "fundamentalist" islam is always associated with imperial penetration, the wahhabis were exterminated, twice, by the sublime porte and found shelter in the deobandi madrassa's of british india, before being reintroduced to the region, with brit support.
This merry band of brothers being flown all over, bosnia, iraq etc, by the American government, were deployed in Iraq, not to fight against the occupation but to effect a sectarian war, which they did, didnt they. The utter nonsense about the sunni/shia divide is deeply unconvincing to us, except as gulf propaganda. If clinton was the first black president, bush was the first gulf potentate president so perfectly does reprise the act of the emirs and sultans. Americas fundie allies are terrifyingly brutal, favouring acts of astonishing cruelty, i watched so many beheading videos over the course of the last few years, quite a few from our noble allies in Libya, i think i am ready to be a fully islamophobic anti-arab racist, i can only imagine how it must seem to euro-americans, they are like grinning demons, on youtube you can watch the extraordinarily brave and dignified moutassim ghaddafi dismiss them contemptuously before his murder.
Political islam is a disaster for us, true, but its dynamics are quite complex, it is obscurantism in the service of empire, in egypt class consciousness is intense, and those fighting for social justice find themselves caught between no nothing regressive 'islamists' and humanitarian interventionists, to repeat myself, Imperial powers just love the fundies, Afghani, Abduh, Rida, Kawakibi et al were responding to the limitations of wahhabism and other revivalist movements by advancing the idea that modern science and other innovations should be made generally available to the arabs through education, and many of the Ulema adopted a kind of simple positivism and faith in science.
Frankly the islamic parties have little to offer us but Islam in the service of neo-liberalism is a gift to the empire, i have not been impressed by the 'arab spring', for various reasons, suffice it to say that saudi is the regional model favoured by the American regime and we will no doubt conform. The vice president of the FJP, the brothers political party is a copt, rafiq habib, associated with the wassatiya trend, i think its doomed but we may need to go through a period of faux islamism before a socialist trend reasserts itself.
The arabs are exhausted, resistance is being stymied, and any attempt at independence is being thwarted by total destruction of the states, social space etc, our world is turning in to gaza, the hauteur of outsiders is frankly misplaced, we have many resources that could effect a social transformation, idiot islamism is not one of them however, but not all islamists are stupid or regressive.
Here mutassim tells the adherents of 'american islam' to go to hell before they murder him.
link to youtube.com
and Abdul Bassit recites al balad much favoured by socialistic and humanistic muslims, i first heard humanistic used as pejorative by an israeli rabbi, during a dialogue meeting it non-plussed me and i wrote an article for the FT called 'secular christian muslim' about it, when i used to give a damn and could express myself clearly those days are gone because what is there to say any more, now it will be war. Incidentally it really is worth checking out Smadar Levy about right wing arab jews in Israel, and the impasse we all face now.
link to youtube.com
we do realize that our sorrows are about to get even worse, the getting of wisdom is a bloody business, and we are very dumb at the moment.
"the Muslim religion has zero tolerance for them" really Xanith? it is a wikipedia bit below and the gulf no less, why not check out the late egyptian scholar Dr. Zaki Badawi, Azharite, about homosexaulity,
"any “moderate” fundies" ok well if we replace fundies with islamist and leave aside the vagueness of moderate, what about the wassatiya movement. Who like stuff like this : "Extremism is condemned as the Prophet said; I warn you regarding ghuluww/extremism, because communities before you were destroyed due to extremism [Nisa'i] Greater still is the warning against extremism in religion, as Allah warns "la taghlu fi dinikum" / do not be extreme in your religion. [Qur'an 4:171] yeah i know but that is what they saying, why so lafif lakhdar about it all,
the problem westerners have is that it is hard to understand the utterly unidealistic approach Islam and muslims take to this stuff, we are, well, apalling hypocrites, in a sense, public decency is expected what you do behind closed doors is your business the public stuff will be condemned, its funny that all the anti-gay legislation in the ME is from the napoleonic code, etc. whats the opposite of pink washing, i do not speak a word of arabic anymore but all this whining about the MB strikes me as odd, my family seem resigned to their election but only because as my azharite professor cousin says (i have got boat loads of cousins) "we will be electing america and israel, pharoah and haman"
rhetoric is mostly what the MB do, and some very good social services the young brothers were very brave facing down the police by the husseiniya in azhar, they marched up and down in front of massed ranks of armed soldiers protecting us we went to pray. also my oldest daughter is gay and hasnt had any problems she and her irish girlfriend were objects of some interest and not a little consternation but again no biggy, laments about children from my 103 year old great aunt, but they survived the village.
"the Muslim religion has zero tolerance for them"
what were all those gay white guys in the 20's and 30's, 40's',50's doing in tunis and morroco, just as muslim back in the day.
and also, but, but... isnt Islamism precisely an egyptian ideology, Abduh the original modern salafi was of course a modernizer who accepted britsh rule and was very co-operative, but the radical kharijite types, note: no egyptians are wahhabis due to saudi's being like our embarrassing uncouth cousins, no really. but in fact that name "Islamic Jihad" the trademark name of combat fundamentalists was first an egyptian group wasnt it?
finally cant be bothered to look it up but maysani arabs were also quite in to gender bending both sexes, still muslims, there were women who dressed as men and did not observe the restrictions placed on women, some of whom slept with men and some with women. their sheikhs seemed ok with it.
and actually finally Siraj ud-Dawla, big into islam, entertainingly called Sir Roger Dowley, by the brits absolutely f**ed everything that moved much to british satisfaction as they had come to conquer and were a bit sniffy about pederasty and his many other diversions. the identity gay however is part of european culture, tell me do we always need to plead before a liberal tribunal?
the gay scene in lower egypt is quite alive one of my other cousin tells, he doesnt approve but its no big deal, why all the hysteria, the main problem is not the muslimness of the MB, its the comprador shit especially as now the populations of the west are going to get a taste of the Austerity structural adjustment stuff etc you can just imagine what we will get. i was in cairo and sharkiyya in 2007, i got to celebrate eid-ul-adhaa the day Saddam was hung, on a cold cairo street we prayed fajr which is early, the sheikh spoke for along time about the hanging, my butt froze on the cold road and that city stars mall is just awful what happened to the bread where is the khubz of 30 years ago.
Xanith, and so to wiki, and this is the gulf where the creator seized with a need for simplicity gave full vent to his naive period:
The xanith form an accepted third gender in Oman, a gender-segregated society. The xanith are male homosexuals (some work as prostitutes) whose dressing is male, featuring pastel colors (rather than white, worn by men), but their mannerisms female. Xanith can mingle with women, and they often do at weddings or other formal events. Xaniths have their own households, performing all tasks (both male and female). However, similarly to men in their society, xaniths can marry women, proving their masculinity by consummating the marriage. Should a divorce or death take place, these men can revert to their status as xaniths at the next wedding.[24]
yes as to the meat and dairy stuff its entirely the canaanites fault their descendants, in lebanon, still prepare Immos with lamb, the name implies cooked in its mother milk, yuk, i sympathize with the jews so freaked they wouldn't let the merest bit of milk or its derivatives near their fleisch, as usual our barbarism is to blame. strangely turks call them 'hindi' which i guess means indian, and cook them in youghurt, with turks its always yogurt and imperialism.
geller and pipes appeared as responsible commentators on muslim integration on a radio 4 program, uk, called beyond belief with ernie ray, i did it with a rabbi called conh-shertok years ago, his thesis was that one should not forgive unless the person repented, very sensible but not very spiritual, anyway forgiveness is overated, its not one of my convictions. we traveled back to london on the train together and i protected him from boisterous pathans who just kept talking and talking, the rabbi slept i ministered to my co-religionists. i got loads of priestly fan mail, even some from ahmadiyyas. aslo i recal now that i did some pastoral care when approached on one occassion by an Israeli reservist colonel whose daughters boyfriend was a vlack muslim jazz musician, he was funny turned with a huge encylopedia judaica open at a page about some 17th century egyptian rabbi who he said was his ancestor, he didnt look it and i guess he just wanted to fit in even though we were in london, his daughter had and told him to go to hell, despite my best efforts.
everyone is everywhere.
ah yes Latrun wasnt it DBG who sent holocaust survivors to their certain deaths, good for morale, and he has the gall to post here.
" i am scared for both sides" rosegarten
Pathological hatred of israelis... er... huh! i think in fairness you should have just used the phrase you were struggling for "arab lover", ah isnt that better.
talking of running over dogs i was reminded of this famous speech from sometime ago, anyway the speaker was an obscure figure outside his little nation whose wildly impracticable aspirations to overthrow his comprador government need not detain us, stupid old guy in a tarboush.
"They have taken a law to the Parliament according to which first of all we are to accede to the Vienna Convention, and secondly we have to add a provision that all American military advisers, together with their families, technical and administrative officials, and servants - in short, anyone in any way connected to them - are to enjoy legal immunity with respect to any crime they may commit in Iran! If some American's servant, some American's cook, assassinates your marja'-i taqlid in the middle of the bazaar, or runs over him, the Iranian police do not have the right to apprehend him! Iranian courts do not have the right to judge him! The dossier must be sent to America so that our masters there can decide what is to be done!
The previous government approved this measure without telling anyone, and now the present government just recently introduced a bill in the Senate and settled the whole matter in a single session without breathing a word to anyone. A few days ago, the bill was taken to the lower house of the Parliament and there were discussions, with a few deputies voicing their opposition, but the bill was passed anyhow. They passed it without any shame, and the government shamelessly defended this scandalous measure. They have reduced the Iranian people to a level lower than that of an American dog. If someone runs over a dog belonging to an American, he will be prosecuted. Even if the Shah himself were to run over a dog belonging to an American, he would be prosecuted. But if an American cook runs over the Shah, or the marja' of Iran, or the highest official, no one will have the right to object.
Why? "
Ayatollah R. Khomeini October 26 1964, revolutions are not made in a day, of course some believe that there are worse things than being Americas slaves.
rest at link.
//www2.irib.ir/worldservice/imam/speech/16.htm
Under Siege PLO Decision Making During The Siege of Beirut by Rashid Khalidi.
/www.amazon.com/Under-Siege-P-L-Decisionmaking-During/dp/0231061862/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1316195086&sr=1-1
I think this is an excellent book for 1st worlders to read, if i may make so bold. below some guys quite creditable review, i am going out so no time i highly recommend this book. i recall the story about some of the Palestinians calling some of those who argued for immediate acquiescence
in the evacuation negotiations as the "withdrawal now" camp, a satirical reference to the worthless "peace now" of yesteryear, do you remember them, weeping but still shooting, but still weeping. Israel was very much involved in fomenting the war. ain- el hilweh will always be remembered and also what was done to rashidiya in 82. Some of the hasbarist people posting here are almost lascivious in their drooling inhumanity, wrong side of history dudes, wrong side of everything.
By
Zach Goelman
This review is from: Under Siege: P.L.O. Decisionmaking During the 1982 War (Hardcover)
When examining the 1982 war in Lebanon, there are many different aspects that one can study. Books have been written explaining Israeli motives for the invasion, analyzing the international reaction, studying American intervention, and debating the war's impact on Lebanese society. In writing Under Siege, Rashid Khalidi attempts to fill a gap in the scholarship by focusing on the P.L.O. Khalidi's personal experience and sympathies are a part of his narrative - he lived in Beirut during the summer of 1982 as a witness to the siege. In describing the situation of the P.L.O., Khalidi utilizes and contributes to a narrative that juxtaposes victim and aggressor, and his sympathies clearly lie first with the Palestinian people and second with their sometimes misled liberation organization. In his preface, he dedicates his book to those who gave their lives in "defense of the cause of Palestine and the independence of Lebanon."
The Israeli invasion and the siege of Beirut were a high-water mark of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and was a military, political, and diplomatic showdown between Israel and the P.L.O. In the introduction to his work, published in 1986, Rashid Khalidi states that "few Lebanese or Palestinians have had the chance to record their view of events in 1982." These views, and Khalidi's, reject the narrative that Israel invaded, surrounded, and forced the P.L.O. to flee Lebanon in something approximating a Palestinian surrender. "It is wrong to assume that... Israel's defeat of their forces... [meant] that the P.L.O. was summarily forced to leave, with the only question ever at issue being when and how." A large part of his work is devoted to showing the P.L.O. as an actor in the events, rather than a group that was acted upon.
Khalidi begins his work with an overview of the P.L.O.'s experience in Lebanon in an attempt to show the change in Lebanese opinion towards the guerrillas and their leadership. Initially, the P.L.O. participated in the Lebanese civil war, fighting alongside the Lebanese National Front (L.N.F.). The L.N.F. consisted of various leftist militias composed of Sunni Muslim lower classes, factions of the Shia Amal militia and led by the charismatic Druse chief Walid Jumblatt. The P.L.O. and the L.N.F. created a command called the Joint Forces (J.F.) against the rightist Lebanese Forces (L.F.) Khalidi suggests that the P.L.O.'s growing strength and its sense of entitlement ultimately led to the isolation of the Palestinian leadership in Lebanon. The guerrillas, who had previously fought alongside the L.N.F. against the rightist militias and the Syrian army, found themselves without allies on the eve of the invasion. This isolation at the beginning of the war was only exacerbated by the punishment the Lebanese suffered under the Israeli assault. Lebanese opposition under siege meant that the P.L.O. could draw on no domestic support against the Israeli position.
In describing the terrific difficulties of confronting the ultra-modern Israel Defense Forces (I.D.F.), Khalidi takes numerous occasions to remark on the surprising performance of the P.L.O. fighters who "fought longer than had all the Arab armies put together in all their wars with Israel, doing better than anyone could have expected." In his chapter titled `Military Inputs", the author lists numerous Israeli failures to advance on certain fronts, and P.L.O.'s ability to delay the invasion and exploit weaknesses in the Israeli attack. Khalidi also describes numerous Israeli attempts to force a capitulation of the leadership through military and unconventional means, including car bombs to terrorize the population, psychological warfare such as public radio announcements of the P.L.O.'s retreat, and using precision-guided munitions to assassinate and destroy the Palestinian leadership. By the time the I.D.F. arrived at the gates of Beirut, behind schedule and uncertain how to prosecute the siege that lay ahead, Khalidi comments, "Israel was fighting a war of attrition which it was far from wining... nothing said publicly by the P.L.O.... indicated that Israel's military pressure had achieved anything." In describing how the Palestinian guerrillas fought so admirably against the soldiers of Israel, Khalidi states that the greatest tool the Israelis had at their disposal was air power: this meant that Israel could "destroy and starve Beirut if they wanted to," without any Palestinian interference, but the "hours of non-stop bombing were proof that it had not yet succeeded in its aims."
The research done by Rashid Khalidi fulfills a large part of his mission to exonerate the P.L.O. from failure. By relying on primary sources from within the P.L.O. and Beirut, he accomplishes two tasks: first, he portrays the Organizations internal discourse on the issues facing it, and second he legitimizes the P.L.O. by offering a broadly uncritical view of their documentation. Using unpublished Palestinian material and asserting its credibility on par with (and sometimes exceeding Israeli documentation in credibility) other sources, Khalidi places his own sympathies within the narrative provided by the P.L.O. documentation. His selective use of secondary sources, especially Israeli sources and others from the Israeli-American side, suggests that he may be more concerned with the credibility of the side, rather than the source.
This book's success is its portrayal of the P.L.O. both as the Organization saw itself, and as it wished to be seen by the international community. Khalidi wrote this book in the aftermath of the 1982 war, at a time when Israel seemed ascendant and the Palestinians defeated; their movement in exile, their people massacred in camps. Under Siege: P.L.O. Decisionmaking During the 1982 War reads like an exoneration, and this seems almost intentionally `unintentional': that when documenting an exiled, besieged, outnumbered and isolated revolutionary movement, one can't help but come to their defense. Ultimately, Khalidi's narrative insists that history will be an apologia for the Palestinian movement, rather than an epilogue.
one of the main mysteries about the official narrative is that a "terrorist" attack is by definition spectacle, political theater, it is a pin prick such movements are unable to inflict a strategic defeat on the target it therefore makes no sense with out explicit claims and demands. terrorism is about political pressure not war, they would have prepared a statement explaining their rationale for the act, what Thatcher called the "oxygen of publicity" when she banned the voices of IRA personnel, hilariously in the 80's/90's their words were read by actors, so the statements were heard but not the voices of the dour IRA men, it was surreal.
An anonymous attack is of no value whatsoever, it places no pressure on the attacked government to address the issue and also there has to be a campaign of acts to bring pressure on the governments to come to terms absent a claim and explanation the attack is useless, isnt it? and one single action is no use either, i was in London in 73/4 when a single active service unit of the IRA shot up the town for a few weeks and were finally cornered in the balcome street siege (spaghetti house siege?) its all a bit hazy, each act was accompanied by a claim of responsibility along with their demands, but one such act however spectacular, especially with no public statement of explanation, is pointless.
so where is the claim of responsibility, the bullshit about OBL "admitting it" is just that, take a look at the campaigns by the IRA, ETA and the PLO all actions are accompanied by rational statements establishing responsibility, explaining the acts and making demands, with out such public statements these actions are of no use to any movement. whats the point of the spectacle if no one knows why you did it and what you want to desist from such activities, oh unless of course one believes that the untermenschen arabushim haven't copped on.
"It is about people with a collective inferiority complex who use petty grievances to try and draw the world into perpetual conflict."
well no one could feel inferior to the author of such a sentence, how kind to play the fool on behalf of those tormented by a feeling of inferiority, i am healed.
"Yet, the Palestinian population in Israel and the WB/Gaza has grown significantly since 1948 and 1967. In fact, I would wager that life expectancy and literacy for example, have also gone up substantially among Palestinians in those areas since 1967". oh! yes since 48 and then again in '67, thats the shit right there.
"what do you think would have happened if your “friends” in Egypt, Syria and Jordan would have conquered and over run Israel as they promised in 1967? After all, they claimed they were doing this for you?" Aha!
"I can tell you, that would have been real genocide. You want to talk ethnic cleansing, let’s talk about Jews in Arab/Muslim countries." ha ha ha...but " I would wager that life expectancy and literacy for example, have also gone up substantially among Palestinians in those areas since 1967".
You are like a child shielding its eyes and believing that it is then invisible, I mean what do you think you have established its just a concatenation of innuendos why not a make an argument, shit man if you are being paid have some self respect, and put your shoulder to the wheel, you are robbing your employers and if it is from conviction if you are expressing some deeply held convictions at least try to give the impression that you have thought appropriately deeply about them. You see from the structure of the "argument" you present it is clear that your projected ( oh what would have happened) genocide of jews would have led to each and everyone of them winning a nobel prize and living to 125, if being bombed imprisoned tortured expelled etc has been so good for the Palestinians, i have not the power to express sufficient contempt for your comment above i read the whole thing shit what a waste of time,.
what has any of it to do with the topic at hand. you are projecting your own moral turpide and numbskull malevolence on to your narrow bitter vision of the world, you do not mean to convert or engage merely to bully the bs stuff you are putting up only works when you armed and are tormenting defenseless people its not even an attempt its revolting you are the ultimate kind of spiritual sleaze trying to imply that a very racist and essentialised notion of Arabs and Arabness exonerates those who violate them, we all know what they are like lli, thanks for reminding us . have you no self respect,
in the current context its unforgivable because if as you say many Palestinians can now read thanks to Zionism they are going to know that the government that pays for the shit you posted is doomed and that if you are representative of those you think you are defending shit man you should not be left out alone, the other boychicks are going to be pissed with you, we, well we are laughing.
why so threatening why so angry, its not very convincing but then you cant shoot me in the head if i tell you to go to hell so perhaps a hot drink and some soul searching lli. at least try to appear interested, so do tell are they really so awful all those arabs you poor, poor thing. thanks be to god that you visit them in tanks and f-infinities and that there isn't a single one within the perimeter otherwise we'd all be finished. idiot you more than invite resistance you compel it.
thanks for that T obviously couldnt agree more. So much in the current discourse operates to obscure the humanity of those we are killing and to offer reductive and ahistorical accounts of indigenous political thought, for instance the 1928 league of nations report called the Italian ingress into Libya one of the darkest episodes of colonialism, at a time when there was quite a lot of competition for such an accolade, it was estimated that 80% of the population, if i remember correctly, were exterminated over some few years, i dont know about you i reckon we should factor that stuff in when discussing what we "should" or "should not" support, they/we are not primitive our/their humanity and autonomy is in no way attenuated.
That some factions in Libya see their interests as being advanced by subservience to the powers is not surprising that the Nato allies are committing racist and other atrocities is clearly very likely, that the resistant forces are fighting a brutal counter insurgency is also a given. But this constant "a plague on all their houses" approach does nothing but bread apathy as it is intended to do and is based on an emotional, rather than explicitly thought out, racism.
The current ME has been a long tome in the making and its current strands are more related to reactions to imperial policies and their deleterious effects, rather than an inability of the indigenes to work out an acceptable politics. The first modern Salafists, were so critical of the state of the arab/islamic world that they ended up supporting a period of imperial domination by the west, so as to shake up the arabs, who had been colonial subjects rather than conquerors for the previous near millennium, the west is merely the latest conqueror of the arabised population of north africa and western asia, they have been resisting for all this time, but as a tearful iraqi woman in 2003 and three retorted to a christian peacemaker visitor when he said encouragingly that the iraqi people were strong "No" she demured "we are tired, we are exhausted". It shows in the arab world which, for the last three hundred years, has been slowly pounded to dust. In the last 250 years 5 years have not elapsed when one or other arab nation has not been involved in a defensive war in it s own territory against a western army, they are tired, exhausted, one of the things Ghaddafi has said with which i agree is that "This is a heroic age for the Arabs" with all the dread such an epiphet inspires. As an arab i feel a strong sense of human solidarity with all sides and participants in these disasters as a westerner i am utterly appalled at our savage injustice. but i am also quite unwilling to plead before the tribunal of ostensibly progressive opinion in the west, for some certificate of acceptability, as bob marely sang "let them talk", all our peoples views must be considered and found space for in whatever political arrangements we arabs manage to establish, no one is beyond the pale.
"it is just that it not an ideology that either you or I should support."
I dont really get this, is it that only those whose ideology is acceptable are protected by international law, such as it is, or the UNDHR. The point is surely irrespective of anyones ideology, we have no right to destroy and co-opt other nations, if you seriously believe that the ideology of our victims or allies is a material question could i ask what god damn use your "pedagogical" support is, oh right ask the Palestinians, your precious support is much craved by those who will be condemned to utter abjection. Teach us what ideologies are acceptable to you dear masters.
watching people discuss the bestiary that is the "arabs" in popular american discourse is somewhat upsetting, for instance whatever Hamas' ideology or nature, in their confrontation with the zionist entity they are 100% in the right, according to all customary legal structures and much else, what other than the real relations of power permit anyone to scrutinize our victims and or allies for ideological hygiene. No one is as venal or blood soaked as us, despite our ideological glories.
Strangely no one is asserting the need for Libyan rebels to adopt non-violence, nor is anyone much worried by their violence hey different strokes and all.
Finally does it not occur to anyone that in reality our ideology precludes anyone whatsoever supporting us, with out utter moral degradation, those whom we are dominating ("supporting" or opposing) are not in any way obliged to be ideologically acceptable to us because such a prerequisite is itself a symptom of our dominative insanity.
No rudeness intended, anyway my ideology is probably reprehensible or it would be if i thought that for one moment that the denizens of privileged whiteness had any right to judge it, may i on behalf of all my arab and muslim brethren and sisteren ask you to keep your support as it is of no utility to us, none at all. It is we who are supporting you rather than the other way round and that goes for all the ideologically filthy who are now taking the field against a resurgent colonialism. Perhaps a little self reflection would be a good idea. I hope you can see what i am getting for some reason it seems i am unable to be too clear as its so obvious, westerners are not in any position to judge others at all, we are not your slaves. (sorry about the we, us, them confusion i come from everywhere). Respect Toivos nothing personal.
read Saadi Youseff's "America America my sweet home" its dirty but then how could it be otherwise, we defile all we touch, its the arab way. ://www.idao.org/saadi-yousef.html
I love the hauteur of this author and those who happily save arabs with bombs and who offer bounties for the leaders of once nominally sovereign arab states, the spectacle that is the modern humanitarian imperialism is awesome in its depravity, and its callous smugness.
"that a victory of Quaddafi would have led to a bloodbath and the return to unchecked power of a regime which has a history of killing its own civilians." that really is a bit lazy, but no thats what they out there you know er do, when we're not bombing them, they kill their own civilians. and if the un votes for "regime change", er implicitly er i reckon, well who cares about international legality, arabs are not beings who bear such rights, in some ways their primitiveness precludes it, luckily there are enough jdams etc ensure arab safety, one of our most cherished desires.
"In short, it would not have been possible to meet the UN mandate without regime change. And who can seriously doubt at this point that the overwhelming majority of the Libyan people supported the intervention and are overjoyed at its outcome? Or, more cautiously said, at least what appears to be its outcome". rice and flowers, and happily smiling natives in their gay bandanas lined the roads.
"The most important argument of those who strongly opposed the Libyan intervention from the outset and continue to do so today is that its success--if indeed it holds up in some meaningful way (who really gives a damn when we get to reduce another filthy arab nation to dust)--will only encourage further US or NATO military interventions ( which may not be against arabs or muslims, this is an area of genuine concern) in countries where the costs and consequences would be far greater than in Libya (which is only some bunch of islamomaoist anti-semite medieval fascistic theocratic socialistic pathogenic arabs) and "success"--however defined--much less achievable." (we bomb it we own it)
Is there a prize for writing paragraphs perfectly suffused with vapid, gloating malevolence. Well anyway i expect you know that those of us familiar with Iraq ( i can personally also add Libya) dont really by the "and then the beasts began slaughtering each other" fighting a sectarian wars for the first time in their history, sadly its only iraqis who provide the counter narrative and well they either lie or just get shit wrong, its why their voice is never heard, the subaltern has no need to speak, we will tell them the outcomes of our complex philosophical debates.
low intensity conflict is a well designed and comprehensive policy aimed at controlling and dominating imperial possessions, any how when they bomb my brothers in egypt i am not sure that my main objection would be that it might lead to some shit down the road, only a murderous lunatic could say such a thing, probably we need not have saved libya in the heroic manner we have, bravely killing, amongst many others, Ghadaffis sons and grand children, don't you find that just a bit nauseating, and offering money for him dead or alive, I really appreciate the utter meaninglessness of the didn't violate the terms of the un res. spielmeme, well if you ascribe novels meanings to it i suppose thats true, On the other hand of course what else could we have done, obviously "there would have been a blood bath", as the following article persuasively argues 2011 was a great year to bomb libya. yay and happy anniversary military humanists (and yes i am the we who is also them, intersectionality man, its a gas)
Ninety-three years of bombing the Arabs
By GAVIN GATENBY
20 August 2004
In Iraq, few days pass without the US Air Force bombing civilian targets. In a high-profile atrocity in May, a bunch of trigger-happy fly-boys shot up a village wedding in western Iraq, killing 45 guests including many children, and a Baghdad singer loved by millions, but these things happen almost daily in towns like Najaf, Samarra and Fallujah, and in other places too far from public gaze to warrant media attention.
The explanation – on the increasingly rare occasions that one is given – is always that these are precision strikes against “terrorists” (newspeak for resistance fighters), but the injured that reach the hospitals and the bodies that turn up in the town morgues are largely women and children.
The explanations don’t play well on Arab Street where they’re received as confirmation of the persistent anti-Arab bias of the West – a view that is essentially correct.
Before you scoff, try this general knowledge test on a few well-read, politically literate friends: Ask them to name the first town in the world where civilians were indiscriminately bombed from the air.
More likely than not, they’ll cite Guernica, the Basque town reduced to rubble by aircraft of the German Condor Legion during the Spanish Civil War. If they’re really up on their history, they’ll know it happened in 1937 and they’ll mention Picasso’s famous painting of the atrocity.
That answer is wrong, and symptomatic of a Euro-centric view of history that’s led western politicians to gravely underestimate the nationalist feeling and visceral distrust of the West that now has the US-led coalition bogged down in Iraq.
In fact the Guernica answer is wrong by a quarter of a century. It was the Italians, hell-bent on acquiring an African empire, who got the ball rolling. In 1911 the Libyan Arab tribes opposed an Italian invasion. Their civilians were the first to be bombed from the air, when the infant Italian air force bombed the oases of Tagiura and Ain Zara in a reprisal attack. The French followed in 1912, sending six planes to a “police action” in their bit of Morocco.
Pilots soon discovered that far from being a discriminating technique, aerial bombing was most effective against soft civilian targets – towns, bazaars, livestock and crops. In 1913 the Spanish began dropping shrapnel-type bombs on rebellious Moroccan villagers. Over the following years they graduated to poison gas.
The British, struggling to suppress nationalist movements in their vast empire, soon got in on the act. From 1915 onwards, the Royal Air Force bombed Pathan villages on India’s North-West Frontier. In May 1919 they attacked the cities of Afghanistan, dropping six tons of bombs on Jalalabad and inflicting 600 casualties in a dawn to dusk raid on Dacca. Then, on Empire Day, they hit Kabul with history’s first four-engine bomber raid. The British Government even offered poison gas bombs to their Indian Viceroy. Fortunately, he declined the offer.
Bombing the natives saved the RAF when post-WWI austerity measures looked like killing it off. The fly-boys proposed an experiment: if they could bomb a Somali tribal leader dubbed “The Mad Mullah” into submission at a fraction of the cost of a ground expedition, they’d survive. The aerial assault worked, and a delighted Winston Churchill told the RAF to take on rebellious Iraq, over which Britain had assumed a League of Nations mandate.
They called it “control without occupation”, and, under Arthur “Bomber” Harris, the RAF took to “police bombing” Iraqi Arabs and Kurds with enterprise and enthusiasm. By 1922 the RAF was deploying high-explosive and phosphorous bombs, an early form of napalm, anti-personnel shrapnel, “crows feet” shrapnel designed to kill and maim livestock and incendiaries to set alight thatch rooves. They even used bombs with time-delay fuses to prevent tribesmen from tending their crops under cover of darkness but when they stooped to machine-gunning women and children who had taken refuge in a lake, even the bellicose Churchill protested.
On other occasions, bombing was used to punish recalcitrant impoverished villagers for “non-appearance when summoned to explain non-payment of taxes”.
In 1924, in a draft report to parliament (complete with photos of what had been Kushan-al-Ajaza) Harris boasted that the RAF could wipe out an Iraqi village and a third of its inhabitants in 45 minutes.
1925 was a landmark year. The French bombed dozens of Syrian villages and even parts of Damascus, but probably the worst pre-Guernica incident occurred at Chechaouen, a Muslim holy town in Spanish Morocco. There, American mercenary fliers of the French Flying Corp indiscriminately bombed the undefended town in revenge for a severe defeat suffered by the retreating Spanish army. The London Times reporter called it “the most cruel, the most wanton, and the most unjustifiable act of the whole war”, and reported that “absolutely defenceless women and children were massacred and many others were maimed and blinded”.
Thus it went on, until the Second World War, and afterwards, through the eight years of the French war in Algeria, the Israeli repression of the Palestinians and the bombing of Iraq during the 12 years of post-Gulf War sanctions. The technology has “improved”, but the political intention, and the outcome, in terms of dead civilians, remains the same.
So why do most of us think of Guernica was the first indiscriminate air attack on civilians? Well, the Basques were on the north side of the Mediterranean, and were thus European, whereas, in Western public opinion and international law, people outside the pale of European civilisation just didn’t count – they were “turbulent”, “rebellious”or “uncivilised” tribesmen, bombing of whom was a normal, acceptable, policing technique.
They didn’t teach you this stuff at school or show it to you on TV during phase one of the Iraq war, but don’t imagine the Arabs and Afghans don’t remember.
© Gavin Gatenby, 2004.
____________________________________
References:
Sven Lindquist, A history of bombing, Granta 2002.
Lawrence James, Raj, The Making and Unmaking of British India, TSP 1998.
Peter Sluglett, Britain in Iraq 1914-1932, London Ithica Press, 1976.
David Omissi, Air Power and Colonial Control: The Royal Air Force, 1919-1939, Manchester University Press.
very good but i prefer Tarek Jaber's victory to palestine, with poor but clear enough subtitles and great footage of the resistant Palestinian people.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzygb6vf_6w
//qumsiyeh.org/chapter3/
chapter 2 is interesting as well.
1. There are no "genetic markers" for race, as race does not exist in the natural world. its all in your mind, there is no biological entity "race".
2. Yemeni Jews are genetically identical to Yemeni Arabs, whatever that means.
3. During the whole rather dismal search for a genetic basis for Zionism, now abandoned, rather like Israeli archaeology, the one interesting thing that came out was that the Shomronim, who posses astonishing long genealogical records which were born out by the results of DNA tests. They are not genetically distinct from the general Palestinian population, whatever that can be taken to mean.
4. and er //www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.genetics
how embarrassing, its true racist nationalism makes you stupid. remember librarians being told rip out the offending pages, science is a bitch. Anyway my geneticist friends tell me that all research points to the not unexpected fact that it would appear to be the case that everybody is descended from everybody, which has a nice balanced feel to it, part of my late fathers tribe are mentioned in that hudaibiya thing as being Jewish, it makes my double-helixes tingle just to think of it.
Ah museum of tolerance, but Mamilla does have an interesting history, all documented by ronny reich who has since done a benny morris re:excavations at the haram-as-sharif and the awfulness awqaf.
"Completely overlooked in the current media frenzy about building the Museum of Tolerance atop the millennium-old Ma'amun Allah Cemetery is the site's forgotten history as the killing field of 614.
Once Jerusalem was in Persian hands a terrible massacre of Christians took place, and the Jews are accused of having taken the lead in this massacre.
How many Christian prisoners of war were murdered by the Mamilla Pool? A precise number is of course now impossible to verify, but Israeli archaeologist Ronny Reich puts the tally at 60,000 before the Persian military stopped the carnage.
One eyewitness, Strategius of St. Sabas, wrote: "Jews ransomed the Christians from the hands of the Persian soldiers for good money, and slaughtered them with great joy at Mamilla Pool, and it ran with blood."
Israel Shamir wrote an article on it but i wont link in case you may be offended, some people really dont like mr. shamir got the above from atheist news. travelling so sorry about sloppiness of post. just thought it may add a little interest, we do have a history and some of us know a little of it.
best wishes to all posters, even the crazed lying bigots perhaps especially them, but i will always have a tender place in my heart for Musa (mooser), you consistently crack me up.
This is very unfair Jews and Judaism have little to do with Zionism in fact the first anti-zionists were of course Jews and the conquest of the Jews was zionisms first aggressive act. It seems to me that my (internet) friend Rabbi David Israel Weiss and Noah Cohen (who so embarrased Chomsky that znet dropped the dialogue after Cohens reply to Chomsky's defense, as it so comprehensively destroyed the big C's credibility on this specific issue, which Chomsky, in his characteristic way, admits is a possible weakness in his thinking) are the best examples of anti-injustice activists in the context of Palestine.
is not this type of thinking perfectly consonant with zionism, Israels policies are our policies, determined and effected from here, Jews as such are no more responsible for the crimes of Israel than any citizens of the west, what is shocking is that we in the west fail to see our own ugly face and so often opt for the plague on all their houses view, rather than seeing that it is our hand that is bloody, it is our appalling inhumanity being enacted right across this globe, zionism betrays the rich heritage of pan-human social action within the askenazi community check out Campbell-Bannerman and his famous little ulster remark about zionism replacing socialism/communism in the Jewish community.
British P.M. Henry Campbell-Bannerman argued:
“There are people (Muslims) who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources. They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions. These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another ... if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world. Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.” [From the Campbell-Bannerman Report, 1907]
[Extracted from ‘The Arab Scene 100 years After Campbell-Bannerman’ by Awni Farsakh]
ask and it shall be given knock and it shall be opened:
Sami Hadawi
Palestinian Rights and Losses 1948
//www.amazon.com/Palestinian-Rights-Losses-1948-Hadawi/dp/0863561578/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313061592&sr=1-1
also of course Henry Cattan covers some of the same ground forensically.
i made this point to Smaddar Levy, an arab jewish social scientist of israeli nationality, the one thing, other than fear/arrogance that unites israeli's (all of them but the mizrahi in particular) is the parlous political position of the masses in arab countries, the kleptocratic comprador despotism etc, if any of them successfully liberate themselves and are able to offer a politics of social justice and independence as a model to the israeli masses the elite of the zionist state will find their populations far harder to herd into the hopeless colonial project that is modern israel. so its the arabs masses up to the plate, the political class in the arab world are well integrated in the global system they are useless.
tokyobk? now mooser has dealt with you i feel a little shy, however its always amazing to see someone promulgate zionist "history" unselfconciously.
firstly and quite embarrassingly you dont know what "arab" means, it does not mean arabian, about 3% of arabs are reckoned to be of arabian origin, if that helps.
the marionites ( oh yes who arabs believe are derived from the crusades, glad you are here to put us right) "are a mixed population taken to be arab" that is laugh out loud stupid, "mixed" as oppossed to all those pure folks i mean what! of course arabs, god bless them probably think all christianity in the region comes from the crusader invasion, maybe you could do a teaching tour and disabuse these poor ignorami about their history, check out maarat al numan (birth place of abu ala al-maari) so recently in the news in Syria for some cool crusader stuff,
but tell me tkbk when checking genetic markers, in support of settler colonialism, where do they find the genes, are they in the rocks, do they isolate them from small particles of the western wall, whose genes dunder head do you think warrant comparison and what possible relevance is such shit,
why not just think for a minute when was the last time someone suggested that your genes might be used to determine your rights of residency and citizenship, the ME is not some bullshit biblical theme park you dont know anything about our history apparently hey but you know that we've got it all wrong, i am going to find me a pure arab and insist he go back to an-nafud where they come from eh. where was the roman province of arabia, sadly i have to tell you it wasnt in arabia either oh the error the error.
sometimes listening to euro/americans talking about the ME one is struck by the irrationality of it all, jews are a natural part of the ME, thanks for sharing that but what does it mean, are egyptians arabs is Gaddafi a berber its all so.. er.. complex, did jesus speak arabic, what about the hasmoneans how arab were they. Idumeans also were they pure hycarnus thought so i am told but that could just be native BS. was rabbi Akiva an arab and a jew,
is it still 1000bc? what is a mixed as opposed to a pure people, from where do these pure essences come. "generally taken to be arab" that is pure comedy gold. dont get me started on those nabulsi shomronim.
what were those mongols doing raiding palestine in the 1200's under a nestorian general, we all belong somewhere, where i am to go scot/irish/arab/egyptian, what citizenship do my markers warrant. i mean ffs. finally what about those french douai or douaihy, they come from a village in france but some take them to be arab rather than french these days, what of it, should they stay in lebanon or relocate to Gaul.
first time i have commented sorry etc just couldnt help my self will try to be constructive in future.