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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Mistakes will always happen in conflict situations, to all sides. Israel to its credit, in all its history, has never pounded civilian built up areas with indiscriminate artillery, as Assad has done. This is fact, but who's interested in facts anyway and please spare us the comeback about white phosphorous. There is nothing that Israel has done that can be compared to what Assad and friends do, and not a peep from the Israel bashers who hide behind the human rights pretense banner.
"Disproportionate Use of Force"
Assad is clearly using disproportionate force against the rebels. And yet we do not hear the pseudo liberals and pseudo human rights groups shouting this out. This term has not been used in the context of the current conflict in Syria. And yet it is used against Israel, day in and day out. The type of force and damage being directed against the rebels is overwhelmingly greater than what has gone on in Gaza for instance, no matter how many of you show us photographs of some house blown up in Gaza. Israel is judged on a different standard and is found guilty before the ink has dried. If anyone wanted a clear example of how the mass media is automatically anti-Israel, no matter what Israel does, you have it here.
If I can get one lost soul to embrace the truth then I would have done something truly significant in my life. Will it be you Mooser or am I trying to reach too far?
By the way, I never said anti-Semitic non-Jews. Now you are putting words in my mouth.
The reason for the abduction of the 48 Iranians is so that the rebels can use the threat of killing them to keep Assad from launching a door-to-door all out campaign in Aleppo.
Here's another one from the NY Times
Palestinians involved in the attack
"After the attack, some of Mr. Morsi’s critics cast his relationship with the group as a liability. Security officials have said that Palestinians played some role in the attack on the soldiers, who were killed on Sunday when 35 gunmen stormed their checkpoint, spraying the soldiers with machine gun fire. Officials said that militants based in the Sinai Peninsula carried out the attack, along with Palestinians who infiltrated the country through smuggling tunnels from the Gaza Strip."
Are you still lol?
link to m.aljazeera.com
Here's one link from Al Jazeera. The info will eventually come in and we will learn some of the names, but for most it will be yesterday's news, except during the next prisoner swap, guess who will be requesting the bodies of those killed in the attack?
Just in case the paragraph gets scrubbed, I quote "Egypt and Israel say both Islamist fighters from the Sinai and Palestinian allies from the Gaza Strip are active in northern Sinai, attacking both Egyptian security forces and staging raids across the border into Israel".
So I take it that you are not going to read the report.
Go read the latest report from the US State Department about global freedom. It's in there.
You see Philip, they celebrate each other, Mooser and Colin, in the open. Go read about the antisemitism in the 1930's that is returning in a big way. How does it feel to be lending a hand? With a name like Weiss, you know they will come after you as well.
Oh, Gazan's aren't Palestinians. Is this what you are telling us Annie? I guarantee you that at least some, if not all, of those involved in the terrorist attack yesterday are (were) Palestinian.
Philip, it is time to shut down your cesspool of hate. You need to admit to yourself that there is an aspect to the conflict that you have not been able to understand and thus you refrain from criticizing one side. This is what traps you. Move on Philip. You tried, you failed thankfully. Now move on, get a real job. The Palestinians do not deserve the type of support Black South African did. Were any of your friends in the armored car that crashed into Israel yesterday? The region is out of control. Only that some Jews have preferred to fantasize. The world you think the Palestinians belong to, has only a few of your friends in it. They are not representative of the bigger picture.
Allison, know one thing. Those who publish videos of dying human beings with their bodies blown into pieces, demonstrates how detached you are from real suffering and shows that there are no red lines in your blind obsession to push your adenda. Shame on you!
What does this article have to do with US foreign policy? Is it because MW receives funding from Gulf state oil money, that you intervene on Islamic issues? Are your heads so far up the backsides of your oil rich sugar daddies? It would appear so.
And what about Batman premiers?
How about the members of CODEPINK who joined the infamous flotilla to Gaza? Was this a Sunday picnic with pedicures? How do they say it goes? Forgo the radical pose for the radical ends". Is that it? The CODEPINK ladies may not have used the iron bars against the Israeli soldiers but they certainly facilitated and aggravated the hostile atmosphere.
When it comes to groups like CODEPINK, being involved in "a" struggle is more important than the finer details of the struggle itself.
CODEPINK is so radical that even if Netanyahu would have read out a speech from Yassar Arafat himself, Abileah's automatic response mechanism would not have been able to adjust. Much like yours Woody.
When Rae Abileah decides to visit Israel once again, she will find herself on the next plane back home. How does that make you feel Rae?
I have a question for you as well. If you would have heard favorable words from Netanyahu, did you have another sign in your bag that showed support for Israel? The article says you sat there and only when you heard things that upset you, did you act. Or did you prepare only one sign ahead of time?
Slow day/week on the Ernie Els page?
The "Jerusalem Post" (newspaper) used to be called "The Palestine Post". Did this make the Jews who have lived in the region for the past 3,000 years feel Palestinian? Of course not. And so it was for the Arabs as well.
site not sight
It is difficult to understand what a Caliphate means to Muslims, never mind what it means to Christians and Jews. During the Ottoman rule there were no borders in the region of the kind you see on maps today. The Ottoman Empire controlled the entire region.
Of course the refugees in Beirut and Tripoli said they came from the area called Palestine but they had no, or very little, collective identity as Palestinians. Arab life then, which also exists in many parts today, is centered around local loyalties. So many refugees in Lebanon would speak more about the village they came from or the area of their village. This is how it was.
Kris, you also need to acknowledge than many left their homes on the advice of the Palestinian and Arab leadership that suggested they not remain in the area during war so as not to make the job of the advancing Arab and Muslim armies harder.
1) "busting cities?". Not according to Mark Twain who visited the region in 1867.
2) "thoroughly destroyed?". Are you referring to small villages who's residents fled and/or were driven out in war? Most of those villages were tiny in regards to regional economics. Also remember that during the Ottoman Period there were no borders in the region as we know them today. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine, plus nearly the entire region, was part of the Islamic caliphate. France and Brittan created the borders as we know them today. Then the region was one block, the state of states if you like, with the seat of power in Turkey. The borders did not exist but rather tax regions.
3) Miko Peled is confused. He has locked onto one aspect of the conflict and won't let go.
So tell us Collin, what about the holiest site for the Jews, the Temple Mount? For those who may not be fully in the know, this is the site that Muslims decided to build two mosques on top of. What rights do Jews have here Colin, not Israeli's, but Jews?
And whilst you are about it Colin, why don't you tell us if you think that the modern invented people called the Palestinians, should gain sovereignty over this sight? A people with a national identity of about 50 years compared to the Jewish people with thousands of years.
Still lol Colin?
1919 thankgodimatheist telLs us, is when the first Palestinian National Congress was held. This does not condradict what I said. The end of WWI saw the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. One year into the next phase for the Arabs of the region did very little in formulating a national identity called Palestinians. The local Arabs were still in shock and the leadership that emerged started to react to their new British masters, when it became apparent that the intention was to divide Trans Jordan and Palestine into seperate Jewish and Arab countries. During the Ottoman period, the local Arabs felt and knew they were part of the Islamic caliphate that was the Ottoman Empire, and they were quite happy with this setup. There was no collective Arab identity called Palestinians then.
It was only when they started to understand that the Jews were not going anywhere and that they could not be easily destroyed, did the thing, now called Palestinian, start to evolve and this happened in the 1960's.
Since you have gone off topic, here is a quick reply. As many officers in the Syrian army and intelligence defect to the opposition, many of these same people and also those who have yet to defect, hold highly sensitive information about how Syria helped Saddam Hussein hide elements of his wmd program. Not wanting this information to leak out, Assad and is loyal henchmen are cleaning shop. I hope Israel is also involved in exactly what Avi_G is saying. It would be stupid not too taking into account the threats against it. One needs to have his head so far dug into the mud not to see this. Those who deal in weapons of mass destruction must know that whether the threat on their lives is from within or from outside, their life expectancy is not long.
McCathy fails to explain that in 1948 not only did the local Arab population outnumber the Jewish population two to one, but when full on war broke out, the Arab and Muslim countries in the reagion, together with the local Arabs, waged war on the fledgling Jewish State. So they far outnumbered the Jewish forces in numbers far greater than 2-1. Many Holocaust survives, with little training where inducted to fight. I know someone personally who was a sargent in the British army. A week after landing in the country he was promoted to an officer and given command of a company of men, with very little training. And there are many such cases. To call the Jewish army well trained and armed is to expose your ignorance.
McCarthy is unable to say the words "Jewish State" when talking about the 1947 Patition Plan, so he says instead, one state for the Arabs and one state for the Israeli's. The actual plan speaks about a Jewish state. It seems that everyone has rights in this conflict, except for the Jews. By ignoring what a Jewish state should mean, he can only then go onto making misleading points about the Arab population.
The reason, and this is very telling, that McCathy's Arab friend from Haifa was not told by her parents that she was Palestinian, and that she was first exposed to this term when she was 12, was not because her parents were afraid to tell he this, but because there was little, if not none at all, collective identity as a people called Palestinians. This really started in the 60's. He parents did not feel that they were Paleatinian then. They may now, if still alive, but back then there was no people called the Palestinians.
Philip, if your livelihood was not dependent on supporting Palestinians and Muslims ( how much money do you receive from Iran and generous Muslims from friendly countries?), we could then start taking you seriously.
The sooner the Arabs understand that they need to share the land with the Jews, because it is also the land of the Jewish people, the better of everyone will be.
Could not help noticing how many rooms in the house.
Why do we not hear about proven conservatives who have become radical Leftists?
We know that you need sex appeal to get the folks onto the streets in San Fransisco and NY.
I am sorry Sumud, that the facts are not sexy enough for you and the gang. You carry on sleeping whilst others carry on dying.
What is called the West Bank today was never owned by a collective people called the Palestinians. This should be clear to anyone who has studied the history of the Middle East. Towns and villages are and were owned by the inhabitants of the area. When the Ottoman Empire controlled the region, the inhabitants of the West Bank knew they needed to answer to the Turks. When the Turks sided with Germany and lost WWI, they were punished (maybe rewarded in some ways). They lost control of the West Bank plus all of their empire. The British took over as we know and when they left and war broke out in the region, Jordan took over the West Bank. Jordan has zero historic claim to the West Bank and has officially stated this. Was Jordan occupying the West Bank between 1647 and 1967? As over 70% of Jordanians are Palestinians, this may gain validity if Jordan was to be viewed as Palestine. As they say they are not Palestine, then when Israel defeated Jordan in 1967, the West Bank was then liberated from illegal Jordanian control. As the Geneva Convention states that in order to be called an occupier, one country has to occupy the land of another country. As Jordan has no claims on the West Bank and as the inhabitants of the West Bank were never a "collective people", then Israel is not and occupier. As Israel has legitimate claims to the West Bank, the area called the West Bank is contested territory, and no preconditions should can be placed on Israel prior to negotiations.
Abbas is using the story of the West Bank to further his larger aims and objectives and Jewish interests will be severely damaged if he gets his way. Jews, who support the Palestinian struggle, do not understand what damage they are doing to the long term interests of the Jewish people. They are short sighted and wrong. Israel is far from perfect but compared to what the Palestinians have in store for the Jewish people, supporting Israel is the only option at this point. When the Palestinians start talking about sharing, this would indicate a major turning point and a review of positions.
Like Russia? The only thing that Russia can export is oil, gas, weapons, nuclear reactors, and vodka of course. With all that brain power in Russia, the above says a lot about the what socialism does to human ingenuity. Obama, and those pushing socialism in the US, should take note of this as well.
So if Russia's gas customers in Europe have the option for another supplier, you had better believe they are interested in developments in the region regarding gas and oil. Also, their last big customer for weapons in the region, Syria, looks like it is going to have some cash flow issues in the near term.
You're not making sense traintosiberia.
It's called racial profiling ritzl, and unfortunately, when it comes to radical Islam, with most of the prominent acts of terror being carried out around the world by radical Muslims, it is needed. I wish it wasn't true, but alas, it is, unless you want to continue and play pseudo liberal and pretend.
Regarding the oil and gas, I must agree with on quite a lot of what you are saying. And this goes to demonstrate the one sided, double standards approach the world has to Jews. And if you are a Jew ritzl, you might want to begin to understand that the playing field is not even and mostly prejudiced against Israel.
The likelihood of regional conflict is very high, with Russia also concerned with its sales of gas to Europe. Russia is also stirring the pot.
So like the Arab/Israel conflict, there are bigger events being planned, out of sight of the gullible public, where they use a roadblock here or a roadblock there, to distract you.
Also, there was a snide remark by Woody about Israel paying the US back. Israel is awarding US companies first pick and and options in the oil and gas. So yes Woody, Israel has already started to pay the US back. Vladamir Putin was in Israel two weeks ago. He wants drilling rights. He wants a piece of the action. Should Israel drop the US companies and go with Russia?
And they tell us that it's just a coincidence that at the same time the bds movement thinks its making progress that Israel discovers large gas fields as well as oil in the Mediterranean? If I was Prime Minister of Israel, the first proceeds from the gas and oil would go to Ahava. I would send each employee, Arab or Jew (we don't like to discriminate), on an oversees trip, all expenses paid.
Oh, I almost forgot. Israel also has the second largest deposits of oil shale, second to the USA. I am not an accountant but I believe the revenues from the oil will help alleviate some of the pain from the losses incurred by Ahava. They may not cover all the loses but will go a long way in doing so. Turns out that Moses was not as bad a navigator that we thought he was. But it was not really him navigating, was it?
I got your attention hey Mooser? That's a feather in my cap. If you can start thinking for yourself, or think about the issues in a way that differs from your cult that re-enforces itself with the same messages all the time, then I would have accomplished something.
How does the song go? "I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo"? What it should say is, "I'm a creep, I'm a hero", and a handsome one at that.
Norman, the other day you where asked a question about Arab inaction between 1947 and 1967. You responded with a remark including whether the person asking the question wanted the Palestinians to revert to the position whereby they continue to reject the legitimacy of state of Israel.
Question: "Do you really think that it was something else, besides the settlement movement, that brought about the change in some Palestinians regarding accepting the legitimacy of Israel? Was it not the settlement movement that pushed Arafat to consider Oslo? I have no doubt that without the settlement movement, the parameters of the conflict would be around Jaffa, Haifa and Ramlle, West Jerusalem as well as East Jerusalem.
Therefor, the settlers should be looked upon as hero's of our time. They have put their lives on the line to move Palestinian public opinion from the gates of "Israel needs to be destroyed", to "Jews can live in Tel-Aviv". The position of Hamas has only hardened since Israel left Gaza.
As the Palestinians are wavering and returning to classic, hostile positions towards Jews, bolstered by the Muslim Brotherhood, now is not the time to attack the settler movement. Their job is still not done. They need to be supported and praised for their ongoing contribution. How is not the time to call for Israel to pull out of the West Bank. Weakness in never rewarded in this, and many other regions. It is time to help reverse the tremendous damage you have helped create with your "sublime" attacks against Zionists.
Read the report, study it, and only then attack it on merit and only on merit. Enough with the generalizations already!
Dividing the city will create massive tension and further impact negatively on both economies. Does anyone doubt what I am saying?
Also, dividing the city will restrict the free movement of either Israeli Muslims or Palestinian Muslims. One of these groups will need to go through a checkpoint or passport control.
Great idea MRW. When last did you open the Torah or Bible? The Dead Sea Scrolls are over 2,000 years old that talk directly about Jewish history and heritage in the very places you offer one sided support to the Palestinians. Your cold blooded description of my anthropomorphism dismisses the books above. So why don't you take some of your own advise. Crack a book.
Roya, Israel and primarily the Zionists (excluding the extreme Left in Israel), are undertaking an historic attempt to secure the survival of the Jewish State. This does not mean that Israeli's, as individuals, have not participated in ugly things. But not as a policy of the government and not as representing anyone but themselves. Israel being called a terrorist state and has policies of ethnic cleansing is a flat out lie. Don't believe it.
And if G-d tells me something, rest assured, you will be the first person I tell. Too many people on this planet act in the name of G-d instead of trying to emulate him through their own actions. They want to punish others for not believing in their understanding and version of G-d.
Typical attributes of those who strive to belong to this group include:
1) Believe that not only is everyone born equal, but everyone should be equal, as long as their own lifestyles are not impacted. Everyone should be like them.
2) May belong to a synagogue or church but are actually secular. Religion is not at all important. The social aspect of belonging to the synagogue/church is what motivates.
3) They say they want to fix the world.
4) Use the affiliation to the synagogue or church as a vehicle to pursue the "fix the world" thing and this objective becomes the main focus of the community.
5) Usually are financially above average.
6) Live in well to do areas.
7) Volunteer for short periods in order to feel good, with little personal sacrifice. The latte and capo-chino's are never far away.
8) They don't understand that it is a natural thing, and a good thing, for people to gravitate to the similar.
9) Do not understand the law of nature that says that man is inherently weak and most men, under the "right" set of circumstances can be racist.
10) Do not understand that man can be evil.
11) Are not interested in history. Only concerned with the present.
12) Ultimately, they are selfish, and are really doing it all for their own feeling of self worth.
When I mentioned that the group does not exist, I should rather have said that the group does not have a long shelf life. Usually there are charismatic leaders and individuals in the group and when they move on, the groups falls apart.
I never said he was not A Jew. I am pointing out that there are Jews who forgo their own heritage and rather see themselves as belonging to a non descript group of people, that we know does not exist, but in the process they try to influence others to lose their identities. I see the retaining of identities as being very important, especially in creating community and working to better oneself. Without community this happens far less.
No that is not a "yes" to Eva's question. I am pointing out two things here. One, is that I assume Adam has drifted from Judaism. He may call himself Jewish but that's where the connection ends. Does Adam pray or believe in G-d? Adam?
And second, I am highlighting anti-Semitic undertones, that should tell Adam that, at this period in time, Jews who attack Israel will create damage on two fronts. It will bring the anti-Semites out of the woodwork, and two the damage being done to Israel, with the help of Jews who think they understand the conflict and think that Israel is the only guilty party, may never be reversible.
Fredblogs, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about hanging around with Christians. Eva Shmagacz is exposing her antisemitism by initially suggesting this, always looking for the smoking gun on how Jews "controll" the world and have this secret lingo that goes with it.
Annie, I'll tell you how it relates to the "occupation" and calling it an occupation is a main part of the problem. You are more concerned with the aesthetics of the current situation than you are with the cause. Some Palestinians need to pass through checkpoints. Aesthetically this does not look good so the instinct of those concerned with the short term is "how do we get rid of the checkpoints" instead of examining what happened to bring about the checkpoint in the first place. And it all goes back to the time when the local Arab population rejected more Jews returning to Palestine and buying land legally. When they stopped Jews buying land legally by both acts of violence and appeals to the Ottoman Empire, they then set in motion a chain of events including the massacare of the Jews of Hebron, the alliance with the Nazis, the rejection of the 1947 Partion Plan and all the subsequent acts of violence and declarations of war set out to destroy Israel.
And so it goes with the West Bank. Jordan controlled the WB when Israel took it over. So it was really liberated from Jordan. As the Palestinians never controlled it, how could you possibly say that Israel is occupying Palestinian land? Palestinianians where on the land but they never controlled it. As Jews have a legitimate right to live here as well, the land is ״contested". Those with longer term vision and understanding of history see it as such. Those who have no patience, dislike Jews and are not interested in history, are more concerned with short term solutions. And many self-hating Jews fit this category as well.
Take note Adam!
Annie, you set the bar so high for Israel, at levels that have not been achieved anywhere, for any other people and at any time in history.
Allow me to tell you something. Lets assume that the Palestinians get all they are asking for. Israel gives up the West Bank. Refugees move into Israel proper. Israel gives the Palestinians all of East Jerusalem The Palestinians take over the Temple Mount. Gaza and the West Bank merge. Did I leave anything out? Ignoring Jewish anger for the moment, the first thing that would happen amongst Muslims is that they fight amongst themselves over who should control the Temple Mount, the holiest site for Jews and the third holiest for Islam. Amongst the Palestinians Hamas, and Fatah will start fighting and the Muslim Brotherhood will step to the fore. The rest of the Muslim world, who already dislike the Palestinians immensely, will not accept the Palestinians as guardians to the third holiest site for Islam. As in the times when the Ottoman Empire and when Jordan controlled Jerusalem, restrictions will be place on Jews and Christians and will be bared from stepping onto the Temple Mount. They did this in Jerusalem and they do this in Mecca and Medina. The Temple Mount will be the same.
And then you have the do-gooders, who thought they were involved in the cause of their lifetime, thinking they were helping the Palestinians, then wondering why they even bothered (like those who helped the students in Tahrir square). But they will not give this too much thought as they then look to the next exciting project, and the next cause to get involved with.
At some point you may then start to understand that the Palestinian cause was more about hype and fashion and less about substance and the conclusion will be that it was a huge waste of time, and a lot of other things as well. Christians, like the ones voting today, will be contributing to harming the freedom of religion and the exodus of Christians from the region, as radical Islam gains momentum.
It's a natural reaction Annie, but it is short sighted. Everyone wants to be involved in a major, hopefully positive event, in their lifetime. Politicians want to fix things now and so implement short term programs, where really long term programs, devoid of politics, are the best solutions. But they don't want the other guy to get the credit. There is little patience nor true sacrifice. Man can be selfish and usually is. And so it goes with the Palestinian issue. You want it to be the cause of our time, but allas, it is not. So you force the narrative. And so the fashion element builds steam and artificially creates hype. And in the process you are participating in a great injustice towards the Jewish people and Israel.
When you mix politics into all of this, wise men know not allow themselves to be dragged along with fashion trends. It is now fashionable to bash Israel and wrongly accuse it of many things.
Hey Adam! Feeling a little spiritual with all the worshiping going on?
Watching the live feed it was encouraging to hear the Minister from South Africa, 5th generation, categorically describe the situation in Israel as having nothing to do with apartheid.
Is the Italian Christian or Italian Muslim or Italian Jew? Is the Irish Protestant or Catholic? Is the German Christian or atheist?
If you want to compare with families who came from Israel or Russia or Morocco, then ask if they are Israeli Jews or Israeli Christians or Israeli Muslims or Israeli Druze or Russian Jews or Russian Muslims or Moroccon Jew or Moroccon Muslim .
There should be no problem for Italian Catholics forming a community with Irish Catholics and then working together as a unified body. The community is still American as apple pie but use the common bonds to unite and strengthen (hopefully). Those in the community have multiple common bonds which then places them in a better position to work together.
Those who push the secular, individualist approach, are leading others into the river like the Pied Piper. They offer very little. There is little glue to build community. There are many Christian countries in the world, as there are many Islamic countries. There is only one Jewish country and so the focus is concentrated as a consequence.
seanmcbride,
1) Those who have rejected ethnic nationalism are currently going through a temporary phase and are discovering that this pursuit has not resulted in anything of significance. Just looking at those giving to charity, far more funds per capita originate from families who have retained religious identity. People naturally gravitate to what seems familiar, and when they feel comfortable within their community, they can contribute more in their communities.
2) I believe that the numbers of those you identify as have denounced all forms of ethnic and religious nationalism, are a lot, lot smaller that what you think.
3) I would support any ethnic nationalism that does not work to exploit the weak but works as a community to help those less fortunate. The reality is that there is no replacement for religion to bring people together, to continually teach and remind about good themes and improving both oneself and the community. If there is another such vehicle, please tell us.
Zionists are concerned with survival, both physical and spiritual. The Palestinians (Arabs) and the Muslims are posing real threats to both. When the existential threats are over, Zionist can then afford the luxury to think about other universal pictures. Being forced into self-defense positions is rather sobering.
Access to polonium? Black market from Russia, Ukraine, Pakistan. Should I go on? North Korea maybe? Syria?
If he did die from polonium, it must have been an inside job. Israel would never have had the access or opportunity to spike only his food.
If a speck of Polonium dust is enough to be lethal, why is Suha Arafat still alive?
If the Palestinians are playing a game here to try and catch Israel out and muster anger against it, they are playing a dangerous game. The half life of the radioactive material and its current potency offer plenty of information that will blow them out the water.
How many international reporters are based in Israel? How many international reporters are based in Syria? How many international reporters are based in Gaza? How free are the reporters, in each respective location, to go about and do their jobs?
It is clear that there is far too much focus on Israel, based also on the abuse of the freedoms they enjoy in Israel fed by their historic stereotypical views of Jews . Now not all are antisemitic. Far too many are and on slow days their imaginations often run wild. Democracies, like Israel, allow these journalist to run amuck and over report.
For those of you who don't know, around 80% of the foreign journalists in the region are based in Israel.
The lines are so unclear Mr. Glatzer, that people will start to boycott Israel because trying to understand the lines will be impossible for some. This then means that Jews who say they care for Israel will be lending a hand delegitimizing the Jewish State. Is this what you want? Some of the damage being caused is not going to be reversible.
Those who have turned against Jews and Israel have brought demise upon themselves. There are many such cases in history, including the Nazi's.
When things get financially tough within the Presbyterian Church, the long knives will come out and inner bickering will be the order of the day, and they will remind themselves of this vote.
It's called saying one thing to your face and stabbing you in the back when you turn.
I grew up with this type of antisemitism. It's in the blood.
Now, did Ben Ami's bubble burst? I don't think so. His liberal skin is too thick. He has no intention of giving up on the perks.
It is our country Colin. It is also the country of the local Arab population. Jews are willing to share. The Arabs are not. The country is 60 miles wide, let me remind you. It's all one thing on top of the other. Open up the Bible and start reading.
There they go again, rejecting Jewish history and the historic connection Jews have to the land, including the West Bank. Ever heard of Abraham? He lived in the what is now referred to as the west bank. It hurts even more when ignorant Jews join the Palestinian propaganda circus.
In 300 years time they are still going to blame all all the problems on that 40 year period of apartheid. In 3 years and in 30 years and in 300 years, and in 3000 years time, the Arabs will still be blaming the Jews for all their own homegrown problems.
I acknowledge the mistake on the 73%.
Under 35 Age Group Unemployment in South Africa 73 percent (watch video at about 1 min )
"tree", you may want to update your sources and stats.
So when Palestinians lose their jobs because of bds, don't forget to tell them how better things have become in South Africa and in the West Bank and that bds is a good thing.
Blacks in SA never called to kill all the Whites or drive them into the sea.
Many Palestinians have and still do call to wipe Israel off the map and drive the Jews into the sea. Subtle or massive difference?
Settlements are on about 5% of the land in the West Bank, taking into account land swaps Israel has already offered the Palestinians. This 5% is causing the Palestinians to stop the show and insist that they be evacuated. If this does not translate to "Jew free zone", then you had better have your head read.
If 95% is not enough to go back to the negotiating table, then something else is afoot in the Palestinian camp, and it has nothing to do with true peace with Israel.
It's Jewish land as well Mr. Tanaka.
How about this for a stat from South Africa. I am talking to all of you who are throwing the stats of 25% as if this number is not "that bad".
For those under the age of 35, unemployment is a staggering 73%.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Light, Tell that to those who are unable feed themselves or their families. What is happening in the West Bank has no resemblance to SA style apartheid. The main thing we hear about is there are roads for Israeli's only. In South Africa there was never roads for whites and roads for blacks. Something must be different in the WB and it is the deadly violence that the Palestinians have carried out. They have also worked towards destroying the Jewish State. The Blacks in SA never did anything like this. Also the number of security roads is very small and are needed in the face of Palestinian violence, with their drive by shootings and rock throwing.
Personally I am okay with the one state solution. Those who fear it are secular Israeli's who know that once a one state solution evolves, they will have to vote for a Jewish party, and just like the self-hating Jews on this website, who are living in a bubble, the bubble will burst for them, and the realities of the Middle East will begin to set in. Also those who fear the one state solution are the West Bank Palestinians. They know that the numbers of refugees has been blown way out of proportion. I believe that they believe Jews will remain a clear majority for at least 100 years.
Yeh, and unemployment is South Africa today is worse than what it was back then. There is a bigger Black middle class today but unemployment is over 40%.
The Chinese will pickup the shares at bargain prices.
"Stuck in the mud".
Many, many Palestinians are benefiting from the success of companies like Ahava. An attack on Ahava is an attack on them as well. Jordan, and the Palestinians in Jordan, have exactly the same access to the same type of mud that Ahava has. The equivalent companies in Jordan have nowhere the same international success that Ahava has. So if and when Ahava is forced to close, those jobs currently being taken up by Palestinians are not going to magically appear in another company. They are going to be lost.
Anyone, who has visited Israel recently, will see many Arabs in the shopping centers, and they are not just window shopping. Those who support BDS are adding their voices to the attack on Israel's right to exist, because the attacks and the intentions are not limited to the West Bank. The ideology is stuck and so are the ideas to forge a true peace. By supporting BDS you are keeping the Palestinians from having to commit to living with a Jewish state in the Middle East and accepting that there needs to be a place in the holy land for Jews as well. Efforts would be better spent pressing the Palestinians to talk about sharing and not exclusivity and Jew free zones.
I see you attended only half of the history lessons Colin.
Are you out of your mind Colin? You don't give charity to someone who wants to destroy you and has this in their charter. You defend yourself and fight back.
By the way, if you must know, since you asked about boats, a common tactic to smuggle arms into Gaza is for boats to run down/up the coast and drop crates of arms into the sea (they float of course). Fisherman from Gaza would/do scoop these up and bring them on land. Many such incidents have been stopped. Many others haven't.
I don't understand your comment Dexter. Of course I want people to be equal and I do not want to see one people abusing another. The Palestinians are not this tiny isolated entity on their own. They belong to the huge Arab and Muslim family that has abused Jews and Israel for a long, long time that shows no sign of ending this aggression. The only reason that Israel has acted as it has, is because the existential threat to Israel is still there and the Palestinian story is blinding many of that threat. The story is not only about Palestinian human rights. It is also about the rights of the Jews in their historic homeland, but you choose to place this right, and it is also a human right, out of the equation. Jewish history is being de-legitimized and many Jews refuse to stand up for their own religion. Thus the comment on self-hating Jews. Jerusalem is the religious and historic capital of the Jewish people. Palestinians refute this connection.
Back to Philips comments. He fails to understand that it is okay and a good thing to maintain ones strong identities, and to keep building on what one perceives as strong elements within that identity. It is okay be Jewish and have Jewish schools as this also creates communities and galvanizes communities to do good for others. Philip is selective in his call to assimilate and then refrains from telling us the end result of assimilation. He does not call for Muslims to assimilate, only Jews. The Palestinian society has strong affiliations to religion and the Muslim Brotherhood, you may have noticed, is on the march. Islam is also growing in the US. The number of mosques has doubled since 9/11. He will tell you that he hates all religions, however, unlike Islam, Jews are deft at attacking their own.
Learn to be charitable. Give those perceived as weaker than you a boat, fishing rod and net. Don't give them fish and then pretend they are not hungry.
In synagogue and church, there is much talk about charity. Giving that is. Where exactly do the assimilated, non affiliated get their messages from? You cannot force equality newposter and you might want to wake up to this fact, no matter what they tell you in San Franscisco.
The death of the self hating Jew.
The only contribution self hating Jews can make to society, and it is a negative one, is to destroy what others have built. I do not understand why Philip is so pro the "tradition" of tolerance through assimilation. Firstly it will never work and secondly the net result is that it moves people from the "We" to the "Me". There is no other replacement for the masses to identify together, than one being affiliated to a religion, an affiliation that can bring out the masses to work for the betterment of others. This has failed at times in history but so have secular societies. If there is another such vehicle Philip, why don't you tell us? Instead Philip wants everyone to be the same and within the confusion that this creates, individuals remain trapped. Philips ideas offer little of note, to anyone.
Like an injured caged animal, the self hating Jew lashes out in all directions. The self hating Jew knows only how to criticize others and destroy and very little about how to build.
Woody, you may want to mind your language otherwise some may start calling you a hate monger. I suggest you climb back into your shell, and if not, call for the release of the Cap Weinberger's letter. Let the public decide. There is nothing in that letter that could possibly jeopardize anyone today. We already know about the super cannon Gerald Bull, the Canadian, was building for Sadam Hussein.
Firstly, I am not saying that he did not commit a crime. He did and he deserved to go to jail. The judge initially was okay with the 3 years in jail. Something happened before passing sentence and I believe that he was wrongfully accused of something else justified by someone (Casper Weinberger) taking the law into their own hands betraying the values he was obligated to uphold.
Regarding the Lebanese lawyer, I never said he was incompetent. It remains a mystery why and how he as appointed. There is too much history between Lebanon and Israel to ignore the strange appointment. He is probably a very good lawyer.
The injustice of being accused of something he did not do, the something that apparently convinced the judge to renege on the plea-bargain agreement. The injustice of one man, Caspar Weinberger, sending a secret letter to the judge, a letter that changed the case. One man can write a secret letter without being vetted, a letter that has profound impact on another human being? The injustice of the length of sentence for spying for a friendly country when no other sentence for similar and even worse acts received a fraction of the time he has already spent in jail and solitary confinement. Injustice you ask, you bet.
Weinberger and Co. hoped that the long sentence would deter others. I would hope that man will always find the strength to do the right thing. Pollards superiors allowed their hate for Jews and Israel, to hold back on insuring vital info be passed on to a strong friend and partner of the US. There will always be those who will be willing to make the sacrifice and continue to do the right thing and not go over the edge with others. Pollards superiors were not of this type. Neither was the judge in the case and Casper Weinberger as well. And then the judge who later denied late appeal. Conspiracy, injustice? Absolutely!
Sorry Annie, but you are exposing ignorance, naivety or both. Had he appealed, the case could have gone back to court after which key people, including Weinberger would have had to appear and testify in court. The bungling lawyer played his part.
It's called bad judgement. All around there was bad judgment. Pollard found that his superiors were holding back on sharing vital intelligence with Israel, in accordance with existing agreements between the two friendly nations. This was information on Iraq and Iran, primarily. Bad judgment on Pollards superiors.
The district attorney offered Pollard a plea bargain which included Pollard going to jail for 3 years. This agreement prevented the case going to open court in which the beans would have to have been spilled. Pollard had little to fear by the facts being presented in court. The judge, after having first accepted the conditions of the plea bargain, reneged on this after having received a still secret letter from Weinberger. Pollard made a mistake in accepting and trusting the system. The judge made a mistake in accepting Weinberger's letter which, I am convinced, has many inaccuracies.
Pollard was appointed a Lebanese lawyer who just happen to forget to apply for appeal after sentencing, a massive mistake. Who is this lawyer? Why was he appointed? Smells of conspiracy. Bad judgment to appoint him and bad judgment of Pollard to accept him. Really, a Lebanese lawyer, really?
Pollard was accused of releasing info to the Russians that caused American deaths, information he had no access to. Aldridge Aims was later found out to have done this. Why was Pollard accused of something they knew he had no information of?
There is no reason, apart from the conspiracy coverup, not to release Weinbergers letter.
How much were the actors paid for the video?
Poor acting and a poor attempt to cover the injustice dished out to Pollard.
Release Weinberger's secret note to the judge.
Some of Pollards superiors were antisemitic, which will make some of you happy to hear. The makers of this video fit that bill as well.
On their first round in Jerusalem, the Jews left behind remnents from Herods Temple commonly called the Second Temple. A shopping center has been left behind. It's called the Cardo, from the Second Temple period. So the correct response to seafoid is, been there, done that. And by the way, the Ten Commandments, the tablets themselves, may have been left behind as well. Now we talking seafoid.
Those who shout the loudest are usually those who have the weakest case.
And so it goes when pro-Israeli speakers at universities try to explain the other side. They continually disrupt such events. Why are they so terrified? It's because they lose support from some of their indoctrinated followers who start to realize there is another side to the story and all is not what they have been fed.
Moriel is like an injured animal, vicious and ready to attack anything? When will many reform Jews, like Moriel, who feel they are outside of the consensus and mainstream, understand that they are causing major long term damage to all Jews? Enough with the me, me, me mentality Moriel!
The native Arabs have rights to their homes, villages and farms but not to the entire region. For the entire period during the thousands of years, the local Arabs retained local, family loyalties and only during the past 100 years or so, did they start to develop a collective identity.
Most of the settlements were built on land either purchased or not belonging to anyone. Some of the settlements were built on the sites of terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians on Jews in an attempt to curb such attacks. True democracies do not have many tools to defend themselves. This was one such tool out a very short list.
Tell us Citizen, when was the West Bank ever the Arab Palestinians? Give the years please. Please enlighten us with this information. Try not to leave out any years. And please do not include the years the Jordanians were in control, nor the British, nor the Turks. And after you list the years, give us links to the references.
Recognize Me! recognize Me!...
You have no idea "American" ( or maybe you do if you are Muslim) that Islam is wagging a religious war against Israel and the Jews. The "recognize me" has to do with Islam accepting that there are other legitimate religions on this earth. However, the Koran does not do this as it has been changed during the past 400 years to become far more anti-Semitic than it was 1,000 years ago. The holiest site for Jews has become the number one sought after prize for the Palestinians and the Muslim Brotherhood. The "recognize me" thing is meant for the ignorant, like yourself, to start to try and understand that there is something else going on in the conflict besides a Jewish settlement adding 10 homes or a road that was built to help preserve life. You are being played by the Palestinian propaganda machine as they keep there bigger intentions out of direct sight, for now.
Let me tell you something "American". If you are going to reinforce your opinions on my words, why can you not reinforce them in the other direction on the words of others, who are also pro-Israel, but express their opinions differently? I'll tell you why. Because you ignore the facts. You are a lazy sob anti-Semite who will always ignore the facts. You only search out avenues to re-enforce your already prejudiced views against Israel and Jews. Are you going to tell us that until you read my words you were a neutral? From your other posts I know exactly what you are.
"American", the world does not need me to reinforce their antisemitic views on Jews and Israel. They manage just fine on their own. It comes naturally.
Citizen, the truth should be your guiding light, not trying to find a balance to something you don't like. The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable as many of your perceived ideas on how right and how just the Palestinian struggle is, are simply not true. I call for truth and responsibility on both sides. An essential element of the truth is to take a hard look at history and to use past actions to help make decisions impacting today and tomorrow. I am sorry, I cannot turn the other cheek when it comes to the wars and violence that have been forced on Israel. I cannot turn the other cheek when someone denies my right to exist in my historic homeland and wages war me. Turning the other cheek is Christian thing. Israel cannot afford to lose the war. One loss and it will be destroyed. It is not about apartheid. It is not about dominating others. It is not about showing you are superior to anyone else. I would even support a one state solution but only if you recognize my Jewish history and heritage. If you continue to deny my legitimacy and threaten my people, then I'll do what needs to be done to fight you and insure you do not get your way.
As I said Danaa, you need to be on some higher plane to see the humor in seeing someone rot in jail for over 25 years. The judge in the case subsequently died. So did Casper Weinberger. One would think that your superior intellectual status and education should bring you to the conclusion that a letter shared between now two dead individuals, that had such dramatic impact on someones life, can and should be made public 25 years after the event. The whole thing is a coverup and I fail to see the funny side, even if I did supply you an easy target to be used as amusement between yourself and your elitist friends. I am referring to Jonathan Pollard, for those who are unsure of the background to this exchange.
As my first concern if for Pollard, I am willing to bare the embarrassment of my non Shakespearean approach to my posts. In this regard, here is the latest comment from James Woolsey in the Wall Street Journal
Woolsey on Pollard
It's called forcing one to take responsibility for prior actions, and not wiping the slate clean, especially regarding the multiple times war and terror have been forced on Israel. Reading this site leaves one with the impression that Arabs and Muslims can do no wrong.
When the personal attacks start, you know that you are doing something right. I am sorry Danaa that my often poor use of the English language is more important than the message itself. Of course you must be on a higher intellectual plane. Did you study at Columbia or was it Harvard? Who knows, maybe if you did do a study of my posts, you may learn something about the conflict your elite education chose not to expose you to?
Regarding the change to the Palestinian National Charter and the PLO Covenant, I challenge you "mig" to find official versions that state that the clauses denying Israel's right to exist have been removed and/or rejected. The day will come when the Palestinians will refer to that letter sent to Rabin and say that it was just that, a letter, and they will say it was sent to entrap Israel. Islam teaches that it is okay to lie in order to defeat the enemy.
Israel has many different voices within. The person/s who wrote the web page you linked to is expressing their beliefs in conjunction with their agenda. This is what happens in democracies and in this case, it is unfortunate.