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Total number of comments: 6154 (since 2010-04-19 03:21:04)

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  • Reports of anti-Semitism in Ukraine and Hungary
    • Sean, who does not like to jump to conclusions, has posted four times in this thread alone that he thinks neocons are responsible for the fliers. Does he have any proof at all for this allegation? Or is it another in a long string of accusing the Jews for whatever hatred is directed their way?

    • I'm sorry, Sean, were you depending on Israel to save the West from itself?

      You keep missing the point. Israel embodies many positive Western values. But the Jews left Europe because they were tired of dealing with European psychoses and tired of being the victims of European problems. So if Europe decides to return to fascism, it will be very sad, but the Jews either won't be there, or will have a place to go.

      So I'm not exactly sure why you're going on about your newfound obsession with Zionist having the "moral authority" to oppose nationalism in Europe. In the first place, Zionists do not lack any moral authority, and in the second, should the West go back to being overtly ethnically and religiously nationalist instead of covertly nationalistic as it is now, Israel will still be Israel, away from the Europeans and their problems, and people like you and your problems.

    • "The fliers in Donetsk sure look to me like a CIA-inspired provocation."

      You don't need the CIA to find antisemites in Ukraine.

    • "The short answer to my friend’s challenge is that the best guarantee for safety is that minority rights everywhere must be protected, including the Roma and those Russian Orthodox Christians."

      Thank you for posting this in general.

      Protecting minority rights everywhere is a desiderata, not a reality yet. And that's sort of the point. We don't live in a perfect world.

  • Haaretz joins Rush Limbaugh and company in trying to link Max Blumenthal to KC shooter suspect
    • "From the hundreds of Supreme Court justices, just one has been non-Jewish."

      Before 1916, the United States had zero Jewish justices in its 140-year history up until that point. And Jews were in any way at war with the United States.

      "From the hundreds and hundreds of cabinet members that Israel has had in its 33 governments, you can come up with just 2 non-Jewish ones"

      Has there been a great push by Arab legislators to join these governments, particularly Likud-led governments? Does Ahmed Tibi want to be Israel's FM?

      Clearly, Druze in Israel are happy. So it's not about being non-Jewish. Arabs have chosen to stay apart, form their own parties in a system where they are unlikely to be able to join governing coalitions. When they have joined Likud and Labor, they have been able to become government ministers.

      "To put things in perspective, 3000 Jews openly lived as Jews in Berlin through WWII "

      How on earth does this put things in perspective? Non-Jews in Israel do not live in fear that they might be sent to the gas chamber tomorrow.

      "he existence of a couple of Arab former low-level ministers does not disprove the ethnocratic character of Israel. "

      No, it simply proves that Arabs in Israel have chosen to have their own parties, and to set themselves apart politically, and it proves that when they do not, they can become government ministers in coalition governments, as Rajeb Majalede and Salah Tarif both did.

      If African-Americans in the United States chose to form three small third-parties, instead of becoming Democrats and Republicans, do you think that there would be any African-Americans in Congress?

    • "How many non-Jews — especially Christians and Muslims — have been high-level members of the Israeli government from its founding to the present day? "

      Israeli governments have had non-Jewish cabinet members for years now. Salim Joubran has sat on Israel's Supreme Court since 2003. Ayoub Kara was deputy Speaker of the Knesset. Nawaf Massalha was a deputy speaker as well. Salah Tarif was a deputy speaker and a cabinet minister. Majalli Wahabi was a deputy speaker and briefly as Acting President of Israel. Raleb Maladeje held cabinet positions in two successive government when Labor was in the coalition.

      Druze in Israel are certainly not Jewish, and many are openly Zionists.

      "Do you think that most Israelis/Zionists believe that Christians should be represented at the highest levels of the Israeli power elite in the same proportion as Jews are in the American power elite?"

      Sure, why not? Christians certainly have access in Israel. But what does one have to do with the other, exactly? Christians are 2.1% of the country. The Arab Christians identify mostly with the Palestinians. So I'm not sure why they'd want to be part of the "power elite" in Israel. I'd think they'd want to be part of the power elite in the future Palestine.

      But many here have admitted many times that Christians are quite involved in Israel, particularly evangelicals. In fact, most think they are too involved. But they're certainly not Jewish.

      "How likely would that be considering that Israel insists on being officially defined as a Jewish state?"

      Oh, quite likely, if they were devoted to helping build Israel as a democracy, rather than in showing solidarity with a future country of Palestine, as most Arab Christians are. The Druze are certainly quite involved, in government, in the army. They don't seem to mind that Israel defines itself as a Jewish state.

    • "And your answer doesn’t address the main question: on what rational grounds can you object to all ethnic groups being as single-minded and aggressive in the pursuit of their narrow ethnic nationalist interests as Jewish nationalists are about theirs?"

      Your assumptions:

      1. Jews are "single-minded and aggressive in the pursuit" of "narrow ethnic nationalist interests."

      2. Every ethnicity has the same needs as Jews did in the late 19th and 20th centuries.

      3. Israel is open to only one ethnicity.

      The truth: We are not "single-minded" or especially "aggressive" and our interests are not "narrow" or exclusively "ethnic." We also do not have the same history as every ethnicity. Israel is overwhelmingly a country of refugees.

      I can 0bject to a people living in comfort who violently take over a piece of territory in some far-flung place for no other reason than economic exploitation of it and its natives. That's what European colonialism was. That is not what Israel is.

      I would not object to victims of persecution deciding to buy land and build a society as a way of escaping that persecution. I also would not object to the creation of more or less ethnically based states in regions of Africa where arbitrary colonial borders became fractious nations that broke down along ethnic lines over and over again. I think there would have been a great deal less bloodshed in Africa over the past 50 years had groups like Tutsis and Hutus not been thrown together in the same state. Sudan just recently broke into two countries more or less on ethnic and religious lines.

      Europe is, again, a continent where the countries are ethnically homogeneous. That's not an accident. I'm glad that European has finally given up its history of horrific bloodshed and persecution of others. But you don't get to do that for hundreds of years to other people, pay no real price for it, and then tell others who you persecuted how to start and run countries in other parts of the world.

      "You are so encased in your ethnocentric and ethnic nationalist cult bubble "

      I'm immune to the namecalling, Sean.

      " that you fail to realize just how dangerously out of sync you are with most Americans and Europeans on these issues."

      You are so encased in your obsession with the Jews and with Israel and with the false assumptions that you make that you fail to realize that you are the one who is far out of step with virtually all Americans and many Europeans, and that Israel's history differs little from American and European history, except that it has entailed far less bloodshed.

      "Most Americans and Europeans are not ethnic nationalists"

      Yes, after persecuting minorities for centuries, Europe can claim to have given up the label of "ethnic nationalist", even as its countries put anti-immigrant after anti-immigrant government in power. America is different from everybody else because of its history, but even here, we have a fairly strong nativist contingent.

      In any event, Sean, as usual, you're comparing apples and oranges. Israel does not have to be exactly like America and Europe. Israel can be a Jewish and democratic state with an enfranchised Palestinian Arab minority. It's really not that difficult, particularly in the context of a two-state solution.

      " but you would have no grounds to object if they chose to pursue their respective “Zionisms” as obsessively as you do. "

      LOL. Set up a straw man, knock it down. That's your technique.

      "There are already plentiful signs that quite a few Europeans are beginning to use Israel and Zionism as a model and justification for reviving their own ethnic nationalist traditions and energies."

      Again, I have to just LOL. Who cares what these crazy people cite? There is more than enough for them to rely on in their own European fascist history without dragging the Jews, Zionism, and Israel into their craziness.

    • "There is nothing illegal or immoral about Palestinians objecting to a Jewish state in their territory on those same grounds. "

      Are you seriously arguing here that the Palestinian objection to a Jewish state (and the Arab objection to a Jewish state) is based on the 1st and 14th Amendments or anything like them?

      In what sense do Palestinians or Arabs practice anything like either of these standards in their societies? Their objection is based on two things - history and the presence of a non-Muslim, non-Arab state in a region that is otherwise ethnically exclusive. The history part is a land claim. It is not a quest for a freer society or for a democracy. You'll have to point to any indicator that the Arabs can actually keep a democracy that is based on something other than the ascendancy of one ethnic group over another before you make that claim.

    • LOL. And pro-Palestinian activists, of course, never engage in any verbal abuse. Why, the dialogue on this site is positively civil!

    • "This is a point to keep bearing down on with maximum pressure: all ethnic and religious groups in the world have as much right to pursue their nationalist agendas as Jewish Zionists — with just as much intensity and aggression, and with as little regard for the interests and rights of ethnic and religious outgroups. Pro-Israel activists have no answer to this argument — usually they fall silent or run away from the debate."

      You don't like the answer, but we certainly have one. The answer is twofold. First of all, Israel is not in any way an ethnically exclusive state. It is multiethnic and multiracial. Its representative body is not exclusively Jewish. Its Supreme Court is not exclusively Jewish. Its universities are not exclusively Jewish.

      Second of all, the manner in which Israel was founded was no different than the way most nations on Earth were founded, except that it was a lot less bloody. The US was founded by murdering millions of Native Americans and by enslaving African-Americans. European countries were founded as Christian states, and remain essentially Christian; they are more homogeneously Christian than Israel is Jewish. They simply use euphemisms to enforce their notion of Christian supremacy, whether it is through the banning of head covering in France, or the banning of kosher slaughter in some countries, or the restrictions on mosque building in places like Switzerland, or the election of right-wing anti-immigrant parties. These countries have little moral credibility to criticize Israel when the fact of the matter is that they spent hundreds of years practicing various forms of the religion and ethnic exclusivism, and then, after hundreds of years of exploitative colonialism and a World War when they participated in the collective slaughter of 12 million people who were not like them, including 6 million Jews, they decided to sweep that history under the rug, especially since they already had established societies that were more than 90 percent Christian. Even with that reality, these countries continue to practice various forms of discrimination, and continue to cut deals with dictatorships around the world.

      So, as usual, Sean relies on false assumptions to make a nasty, offensive, straw man argument meant to compare the world's only state with a Jewish majority, a state of refugees, to the KKK.

      "This is the dilemma liberal Zionists face: on what possible grounds can they object to the ethnic or religious nationalism of any group in the world? The more they get tangled up in these intellectual self-contradictions, the more enraged and abusive they become — they really are suffering a major mental breakdown "

      And this is Sean's standard response; never one to make a real intellectual argument, he blows a lot of hot air about how Zionists are suffering a "mental breakdown" and how they are the ones who are abusive (and not the guys who obsessively make Jewish-Nazi comparison). Yes, it's the Zionists who are abusive, and not the guys who post their agreement with fabricated quotes about how Jews are historically responsible for their own persecution.

  • Fear of Arab-Americans in the public square
    • "Religious bias
      Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

      62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
      11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias."

      link to fbi.gov

    • "their right to free speech has been thrown out and comments the government does not like that show up on the inter net can result in Muslims being jailed under “material support for terrorism” laws concocted by the Zionists. "

      Please tell me how many Muslims have been jailed or prosecuted for "material support for terrorism" for internet comments.

      " younger more naïve Muslims are being targeted by the FBI in fake terrorism set-ups"

      LOL. How many of those cases have there been? And what is fake about someone agreeing to help with a terrorist attack?

    • I'm sorry, Erasmus, that the truth conflicts with your politics.

    • You're just spewing a lot of hot air rhetoric. None of these kids have been censored in any way. No one has prevented them from writing op-eds for their school newspapers, introducing divestment resolutions, or for engaging in activism on campus, including mock checkpoints and the like, so long as they comply with college rules.

      The time is long past for making these claims.

    • A silly post with no relationship to any verifiable truth.

      No one is censoring Muslims and Arabs on campus. No one. The only thing happening on campus is that the BDS movement is trying to censor pro-Zionist voices. Those are the voices that are being silenced, the ones being shouted down and snapped at. When BDS tactics violate school rules, groups get censured.

      The BDS movement is addicted to claiming victimhood - they claim, defensively, that they're being accused of antisemitism, they claim they're being censored in op-eds to school newspaper, they claim the "Establishment" is out to get them, etc, etc.

      Meanwhile, Jews are about six times more likely than Muslims to be the victims of hate crimes in America.

    • How is Obama "far to the right on Israel/Palestine?"

  • Alleged K.C. killer: 'If Jews can have a state of their own, why can't we have a White Christian state?'
  • To reach the 'moveable middle' in Jewish life, you must be inside the tent
    • "By the way, I voted for Nader; and I think Joe Lieberman would have gotten us into Iraq"

      Based on what? You're wildly speculating. There was no louder mainstream voice against the Iraq War than Gore.

    • Hostage blames the Supreme Court for the Bush presidency.

      Those of us who told the self-righteous Naderites that their gambit would lead to disaster were, of course, absolutely right. It was never about the merits of Ralph Nader, human being. It was about the realities of the American system, which is a winner-take-all system, not a parliamentary system. As usual, rather than confront the argument head on, the Naderites got on their high horse about how their critics were insufficiently progressive.

      Naderites were always about getting publicity for themselves more than about building a political movement. If they were focused on something other than their own selfish activism, they would have focused on local elections, rather than a vain national race that they were never going to win. Even when people begged the Naderites to stop pushing their campaign in closely contested states like Florida, they didn't back off.

      The manner in which the Naderites conducted themselves in 2000 should give all American progressives pause about any campaign on the far-left.

  • Amid 'climate of fear' at Vassar, president comes out against 'action and protest' re Israel
    • "Yeah, Jewish students at Vassar are really a victimized group of kids. "

      Have you been up there? Please, detail the basis for your conclusion.

      "boo hoo zionists have intimadated anyone who doesn’t agree with them. "

      Boo hoo, Vassar has an Open Hillel and Phil Weiss said he felt uncomfortable on campus. Boo hoo, boo hoo for you, because you're wrong as usual.

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