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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
"DAVID STEINER AIPAC: Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don’t even know about."
Great material. "If only"... it got wider distribution. I don't see it on Huff Post yet, doesent MJ get published there?
"would this be the January of this year, when the comments policy began to change here? I wonder…"
I wonder too.
All due respect to Phil, there is a lot of trash in this post. IMO, you throw the Mondo comment board under the bus.
"Did I ever have misgivings about my work given that it has been attractive to anti-Semites, and what did I aim to do about that. I said the short answer was Yes. That pained me. There is no doubt that anti-Semites have been drawn to some of what I’ve said, and there have been anti-Semites on the comment board. "
And then you find yourself being persuaded by the a guy whose sees I/P in terms of
"Esau sold his birthright to Jacob there had been a quarrel. That quarrel was reasserting itself now thousands of years later."
I don't get it. I don't understand why you have to backtrack or mend ways for saying 2+2=4.
That is "deliberate demonization". Amazing how even with a 'free media" it it can happen time and time again....and no one calls them out for it.
My favorite Ahmadinejad interview is the one where George Stamatopoulos(?) ran with the 'Osama is Iran meme'.
link to youtube.com
"I would not go beyond that for anything"
ha
It was covered on news sites...Gawker, Gothamist and the Daily Show. It was in the NY Times, the Daily News, etc. BDS has entered the consciousness of thousands at least. Millions I would think.
I'd like to know if it is the "Norman Finkelstein". He lives in Coney Island Brooklyn. Park Slope, Brooklyn is far away enough way that I can't see him shopping there. The 'cult' bit is his language though....is he going from not being comfortable with BDS to going out of his way to speak out against it?
I'm amazed if the man who said 'Israel needs a good knock of the head' from Hizbolla or the 'save your crocidile tears, if you had any heart you'd be crying for the Palestenians' is now saying 'hold up now, lets not rush and take direct action against Israel.'
This is strange - you have the NY Times doing its best to frame the issue as an attack on Israel but the NY Daily News - which is usually a rag when it comes to I/P runs this Op-Ed:
"Why I’m backing the boycott of Israel
A Park Slope Food Coop member explains her stance"
Read more: link to nydailynews.com
Informative article. Thanks.
"Oh my. One of the most brilliant pieces I have ever seen on the Daily Show."
I agree. I've heard a bunch of people who even don't follow I/P talking about it.
"I was always aware I was different..... "
I swear there nothing so funny to me as upper-middle class white people saying this kind of stuff. He-Fooking-Lari-ous.
Good interview but I hope you don't take this to heart.
"This is a small criticism. Whenever something infinitesimal happens in America, you say it is huge. Like you wrote about Chris Hayes having Palestinians on television the other day, and you said, this is huge. Or with Beinart’s blog—which I assure you I will be reading with great interest—you said, this is huge. These things are significant, but they're not huge."
Being sensitive to the positive, even overstating them has postive effects. It motivates people, inspires them, and it creates a space for people waiting for times tide to turn. You should stay as you are.
"It’s often interesting comparing the NYT picks with the reader’s picks on this subject."
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. Its always clear the story the moderaters are trying paint, promoting inane comments and ignoring the best and most recommended. I think they're bound to remove that feature. It shows too clearly how out of step with they with where the public is on Israel.
On a story about AIPAC/Israel yesterday there was the same preponderance critical comments of Israels influence over US FP. I don't know if/how this will change the political reality, but it a revolution IMO to see this kind of frank talk about I/P in the Times.
link to nytimes.com
"My head is spinning. It is amazing how far down the rabbit hole American foreign policy has traveled when it comes to Israel. Can one imagine having an American-Italian Political Action Committee where once a year every political leader converges in our nation's capital to pander to Italy? To commit to "always siding with Italy"? To promising American troops to be placed in harms way for the machinations of ITALY? We must shake the irrevocable hold that this nation Israel (with an outsize financial and political influence) has on our foreign policy"
I have nothing but love for MJ Rosenberg.
Dersh, as always, comes off like some unhinged person you'd see yelling on a street corner.
"I am beginning a serious campaign on this issue and I will not let it drop until and unless Rosenberg is fired from Media Matters, or Media Matters changes its policy or the White House disassociates itself from Media Matters."
For reals. That was ridiculously good.
That was the bit I was about to repost.
"....if you remain silent, you are complicit. So what are you going to do?"
Great interview with a smart man.
"It is certainly possible, as some have suggested, that I was not careful enough in what I wrote in some tweets"
sigh...the shame is that now matter how biased and openly manipulative the people who police the debate about Israel are...as this shows. It does work. It does put the fear into the people...so that next time they self censor themselves...'don't want Goldberg making a target of me and calling me a terrorist sympathizer, etc.'
As pathetic and slimey a tactic it is...it does work. Shame.
This is of course the name of the game...
"The second lesson is that ardent advocates for Israel are trying to suppress a discourse and worldview anathema to them. The furious tweets and articles directed at Rudoren are meant to intimidate her into thinking about the conflict through an Israeli prism. Any open discourse on this issue is a danger."
How to counter it? Block, Goldberg et al. have been discredited ad nauseum yet still they feel they authority to pipe up about others. Probably best to keep calling attention to what they are doing...free speech and "discourse-police" don't go together.
'taints the entire movement'
Please...you used the same argument for why Palestine should be kept out of the OWS protest. I don't know who you think you're fooling with this 'I make these suggestions because I have the best interests of Palestenians in mind'
Yourself maybe?
I very much agree.
"this is israel’s call, they are designing their own destruction, this is not a radical idea only shared by cult members"
The Israelis painted themselves into this corner where to do the right/legal thing is in their minds, destruction.
Its like the ROR. If the refugees had been given their rights 60 years ago there wouldnt be 6 million Palestenians who were now going to 'destroy' Israel by living there and not being Jewish.
If the settlements weren't built, EJ annexed and 750K Israeli moved to land outside of the green line there wouldnt be any need for negotiations on land swaps....
If they didnt start a nearly 40 year occupation there wouldnt be people calling on them to give equal rights to the peoples who lived under their control.
They have designed this, but they don't want to be held accountable. They want to paint themselves as the victims 'oh how could we ever allow the refugees back' ...'oh how could we ever give up our external capital' or 'oh how could we ever leave these heavily populated settlements in the WB'
'If you're asking for any of these things, which are legally and morally owe to the Palestenians you must want to destroy Israel, the only homeland of the Jewish people.' Et cetera, et cetera, yadda, yadda. forever and ever.
"who’s the cult? zionism is the cult."
awesome.
I admire Finkelstein immensly and its great to hear his opinions in this video, but I would take issue with a lot what he says here.
Briefly cause its Valentine Day...
he says the solution is the law....except on ROR cause that would be the end of Israel.
When he says destroy Israel, he avoids using the language Jewish majority/state...Yes if there was an official 1 state and if all the people on the land that Israel controls today had equal rights, Israelis would lose their priviliged position over the native Palestenians. Would that mean that Israel has been destroyed?
At the end he belittles BDS...what have they accomplished? How do they measure their success, which begs the question what has demanding Israel follow the law accomplished? What has the 2ss accomplished?
The occupation goes on. More refugees. More settlements. More brutalization of the Palestenians...Israel immune to the UN, US politicians vowing allegiance to Israel 4 eva....by every measure Finkelsteins way has utterly failed.
The speaking with authority about what the 'movement' should do to suceed is not a researched one. Is it really in the interest of the Palestenians to think small...2ss..cause thats all you are going to get?
Wouldnt you Isreal be more likely to agree to a viable 2ss if faced with the growing acceptance of 1ss or full ROR? This notion that there can only be progress if Palestenian supporters have a single, limited, reasonable, center position is not how things work. I'd rather work back from a "fringe" idea of equal rights in 1s and get something resembling justice than to start with 2ss and wind up with some disconnected areas inside greater Israel. That seems like it would basic negotiation.
"Something wicked this way comes…"
and surely when that happens Zionists will say "I told you they are all anti-Semites, this is why we need Israel".
Unfortunately the conversation about Israel has been so retarded and repressed in America, that when the public does learn bits and facts about I/P it is, IMO, going to create bigotry. If the NYTimes and others had been educating the public with stories like we get on Mondoweiss than people could understand the issue. They would be able to see human beings instead muslims=bad, Xhritians/Jews=good. Thats been very convinent for our FP but you're right, unless things change, fast, it probably will to lead to lots of ugly/dangerous things.
Who are these elites that are going to corral Adelson, one of the richest people in the US? What makes you so certain that they don't agree idealogical with Sheldon, and that supporting Israel is God’s work, no matter how high the cost to America?
You want to say that "elites" are out there "exploiting a history of Jewish suffering, as well as the Jewish ethical tradition"...but you can't name this group except to say they are elite and that they are somehow profitting from oil/MIC....you don't think people should call them "Zionists"...you say that wouldn't be "useful".
I don't think you're prepared to testify about this issue. You aren't being objective. You're talking about explotation of "the Jewish ethical tradition", at a time where a full on Protocals of Zion type of conspiracy has been resurrected to demonize muslims.
link to mondoweiss.net
This has been funded and pushed into the mainstream of American culture by people who first and foremost are concerned with Israel. All this theories about petrodollars and corporate interest are a poor argument to how the world actually works.
I encourage you to read the Forrestal diaries. That is how US policy comes into being.
When you give advice like
"Instead of claiming that the Zionists determine USFP, it would be more useful to point out that USFP exploits a history of Jewish suffering, as well as the Jewish ethical tradition, in order to oppress (primarily) Muslims."
You are just shifting focus/blame to some vague elites/USFP and making victims out of who? The Jewish community?
Who would it be more "useful" for to focus on the "exploitation of Jewish suffering, as well as the Jewish ethical tradition"? To ask the question is to answer it.
As Phil, Ynet, Pew and others have pointed out....You can assume that a near majority of elites are Zionists.
link to ynetnews.com
While I am sure they are positioned to benifit from the MIC/Oil the main motivation of people like Adelson/Saban influencing US FP is idealogical. Why would you think someone like Sheldon Adelson cares about US interests when he will go on in public about wanting his children to serve in the IDF? When he laments...that unfortunately he only served in the US military. He epitomizes an American who cares about the interest of Israel first and foremost.
There is enough documented history to understand how/why US FP in the ME developed the way it did. Read the diary of James V. Forrestal, the first U.S. Secretary of Defense.
link to mondoweiss.net
Its clear and it had nothing to do with oil or economic interests of the elites...
"4 September 1947 Cabinet Lunch
At the end of the lunch [Robert] Hannegan [Postmaster General] brought up the question of the President’s making a statement of policy on Palestine, particularly with reference to the entrance of a hundred and fifty thousand Jews into Palestine. He said he didn’t want to press for a decision one way or the other but simply wanted to point out that such a statement would have a very great influence and great effect on the raising of funds for the Democratic National Committee. He said very large sums were obtained a year ago from Jewish contributors and that they would be influenced in either giving or withholding by what the President did on Palestine. "
Pure speculation, but....
Optimistically, it could be signs of Obama or other US officals taking the offensive against being pushed into war with Iran. Trying to tell the Iranians "it ain't us".
Cynically it might just be PR and there is no distance btwn the US and Israel. The US is assasinating people in the ME...its not unbeliveable that they were involved in these acts in Iran.
Maybe they got caught red-handed and to stay ahead of the Iranians pulling a Dubai type press conference....they've said "hey, Israel. You gotta take the bad PR on this one....We're going to make out that you were impersonating CIA agents..."and Israel is like "whatever man, but you know as usually, this is going to cost you."
If its the optimistic option...they are going to have to get way tougher if they want to turn the tide on Iran...telling Americans Israelis are impersonating CIA agents and assasinating people apparently is not enough in this insane day and age. Too many Americans are still thinking this is about 9/11 or Sharia law.
They'll need to bring in some AIPAC officials, uncover a spy ring...make a huge story of how foregin agents are pushing for war...that IMO will wake Americans up.
This story showing up on on MNBC of all places, seems (to me) like the US govt trying to publically distance itself from the Iranian assasinations. Its like a follow up to the story in FP magazine last month.
There were a ton of comments on the story yesterday. For what its worth, probably half were intellegent, the rest were congradulatory towards Israel assasinating scientists.
psst. That is terrible if true.
Neat site. I like. Thanks.
"If you chance upon a liberal Zionist in the woods: .......don’t make sudden requests for equal rights for Palestinians…that might scare them away.
Its funny you use word "gatekeepers"...aren't you the guy who was trying to block 'Palestine' from being mentioned at OWS?
Great to hear how the article came about...no surprise that it was through the fluke of an editor who had "no sense of the "Jewish politics of the Times"". Endless respect to Schulman for fighting through & getting such a potent article published.
This is all sage advice too...
"...for the movement to grow and effect a paradigm shift in the U.S. discourse it must really work on its messaging. It must define one goal, ending US military aid to Israel. It must translate "manifesto culture to soundbite culture." In doing so, it must avoid "heightened rhetoric, highly ideological language," and academic language, including old left language."
"It must do its utmost to find a Palestinian face who will be as imprinted for American news organizations and their bookers as Hanan Ashrawi was in a previous generation. It must open an office in NY with a Palestinian at the helm. It must seek celebrity endorsement."
" They looked for an opening and have decided that now is the time, advocating for war against Iran is fashionable."
Yeah, its been such a torrent of demonization lately. Its amazing how overt and overwhelming the propaganda has been on Iran leading up to this.
I can recall pre-9/11 Mohammad Khatami was president there and the US media/administration were running stories on how Iran was on its way to being a secular country...Albright might have even made some overtures while Clinton was in office.... Of course after 9/11 they held vigils for the Americans in Teran.
Then Bush named them in the Axis of evil...the US started it wars and occupations....Israel got in its bombings...Ahmadinejad became a vocal critic of Israel....now Iran has been turned into this caricature in the Western media...that can be targeted for a war.
While the majority aren't buying it...some are. And with their being little to no opposition in the media...its hard to see these seeds for war can be undone. It may be all bluster this year...but in the future, idk, its hard not to be pessimistic.
Thanks. I'm watching it now. It looks good.
Italian futurists (artists) before WW1 used the same terminology when seeking to overthrow conservatism/tradition.
The Futurist Manifesto had declared, "We will glorify war — the world's only hygiene — militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for, and scorn for woman."
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to unknown.nu
I do not understand how post Iraq these Iran war mongers are getting anything published...yet they keep appearing. Months ago they were coy calls for war and now they are becoming outright calls for "creative destruction".
There was one on Yahoo yesterday -
"Avoid World War III -- The U.S., Not Israel, Should Attack Iran."
link to news.yahoo.com
it was written by "Owen Rust" which goes to a Yahoo page for "Calvin Wolf" that has a pic of some a little older than teenager on it. His bio reads...
" am a professional educator and aspiring writer. I have lived in Texas, New Mexico, and Wyoming and have been both a professional backpacking guide and cartoonist in the past. ..."
link to contributor.yahoo.com
What is this bs?
In re to the one on Daily Beast...he uses this blatent Orientilism
"any traction that is the most easterly outpost of Western civilization has Iran in its sights."
and also has this Nazi comparison to Iran...
“Presumably this would be in the same way that, if German scientists had developed an atomic bomb as quickly as the Manhattan Project, the Second World War would have ended with a negotiated settlement brokered by the League of Nations.”
Would it be fair to descirbe this as 'state media'? I have hard to believing independent professional journalists could be this dumb.
"To pretend that resentment in the Arab world towards the US is solely a result of support for Israel, and not a result of some over-arching policy towards the Middle-East is just completely off the mark."
What were the motives of the hijackers who actually killed themselves and thousands of others? What were the motives of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the princible architect of 9/11? What was the motive of the 93 WTC attack?
Numerous, quotes, interviews, statememts show that it was for them princiablly about US support for Israel.
The real story is not that US support Israel is focused on too much, because it isn't. Its been wholly ignored in the US in favor of the they hate our freedoms bs or some other vague they were angry with US FP in the region. Its obscene, that despite the endless 9/11 coverage in the US, you have read transcripts to understand the motives for the attack.
""The 9/11 Commission Report notes that, "By his own account, KSM's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel."
"A German friend of Mohammed Atta(the hijacker pilot who flew into WTC) is quoted as describing him as "most imbued actually about Israeli politics in the region and about US protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that.""
Ziad Jarrah - Jarrah was born in Mazraa, Lebanon, Lebanon, to a wealthy family. His parents were nominally Muslim Sunnis, although they lived a secular lifestyle. When he was seven years old, Israel invaded southern Lebanon, a fact he referred to later in life.
"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized " - Osama bin Laden May 1998
link to representativepress.org
Talk about playing "language games".
"....at least be stated openly: that in order to build public pressure for ending US support for Israel, people’s xenophobic and nationalist instincts should be provoked and inflamed. "
Now it is playing on "xenophobic" instincts to point out that out that people who push for US support of Israel have a vested interest (citizenship/second homeland when they want it) for doing so? What is this besides a watered down you antisemite charge...?
This idea that I/P unlike just about any other political issue should be divorced from "nationalist instincts" is ridiculous. We live in a world of nations...the language of politics that the public uses is....especially for FP, is this good for my country/me?
This is a devasting question for Israel supporters in the US. Unless you believe in some muslim conspiracy to implement Shria law on the US which is interesting is being pushed by Islamaphobic/Israel loving groups , US support for Israel can't be answered in the affirmative. I can have that conversation with Americans all day everyday and 70-90% (my estimate) of them they will agree...'its not good for my country/me..we need to stop supporting Israel.'
The only people who won't see that are Christian evangicals who are obsessed with the rapture and Jewish/Zionists who see Israel as their birthright. These motives are not something that the majority of Americans believe. Except for purposefully handicapping the 'cause' there is no valid reason to not call attention to this.
This nuanced view of Israel firster, or lets not call attention to the fact that the people speaking loudest about supporting Israel have a vested interest (birthright) to the land....would neuter the Pro-Palestenian argument in America.
You've got use every tool in the toolbox...to say lets not use this Truth - which resonates more strongly with more Americans than other argument because as you say
"isn't the way to win the struggle, and nor should it be how we'd want to win it."
Is incredibly arrogant. Who are you to say this? Are you Palestenian? American?
The point, for me, is to end the ongoing snuffing out of the Palestenian people. If when talking to Americans I have to focus on US aid to Israel as that resonates with them...then so be it. And if I have to point out to them that the people who are most vocally directing their policy on Palestine themselves have something to gain and that despite being Americans, the interest they care about is not Americas interest....and this is verifiable true...then of course this should be focused on it. It is the most salient argument, because lets face, people want to act in their own best interests more than they want to follow international law. This is the first and foremost argument against Israel for Americans...but you want to throw it away...because its 'parochial, unappealing and potentially quite vicious insinuations.
No, sorry. Besides Israel-firster being something that all Americans can understand....The truth is dual citizenship, dual loyalty, has played a huge part in why this whole debacle has gone on for long. Take away dual citizenship and make the...likely 1/3 of Israeli-Americans who sprint btwn the US and Israel choose a country...and it would change Israels our way or the highway attitude...fast....
Israel firster and the ideas it encapsulates are essential to changing how Americans perceive I/P...This article... unfortunately no matter how well intentioned is an attempt to police the debate by making suggestions that in fact handicap the effectiveness of the 'Palestenian' message. No thanks.
Dear Sir Balfour
In re to the 'rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine'
So when you say it's gonna happen now.
Well when exactly do you mean?
See I've already waited too long.
And all my hope is gone!
link to youtube.com
TO SAY THE LEAST: truly disappointed
truly, truly, truly
link to youtube.com
"You have incredibly good tastes"
link to johnnymarrplaysguitar.com
Ultimately the bit about the donors not giving to Penn is just a threat...so long as the person reporting it and the donors themselves are anonymous I wouldn't give it any weight.
Nice to see Sullivin giving those Adelson quotes a wider audience. Also great that Rosenberg is staying on twitter.
Even if the Pro-Israel camp seemingly loses the battle over Israel firster...their main objective, is to poision the conversation...to resurrect talk of "neo-Nazi provenance" & to make common sense writers like Rosenberg seem 'radical' to the liberal think tanks. Time will tell how successful they were. Today I'm feeling pessimistic.
So many sensible comments on the NY Times article….
"Carlton - Montclair
If Israel continues to illegally occupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip and oppress and humiliate the Palestinians that live there they will have no security ....Period
They are not hated because they are Jews. They are hated because they are occupiers of lands that don't belong to them."
Colin Wright - Richmond, California
"...On the other hand, when a scientist — one who is not a trained soldier or used to facing life-threatening situations, who has a wife and children — watches his colleagues being bumped off one after the other, he definitely begins to fear that the day will come when a man on a motorbike knocks on his car window.” "
In other words, Israel openly practices terrorism, and we continue to support her and protect her from the consequences of that."
How great does the dissonance have to get before the Times starts treating its readers as adults and stops manipluating the facts of I/P? I wonder...
That was poetry. I'm going to memorize that.
"like some inbred brit demi-royal dipsomaniac, running over people’s character while he cracks the whip from the backseat of his chauffer-driven rolls"
haha
It would be grreeat to find out who at the Center for American Progress (CAP) censored the article. Would it be so hard to find out? Do the censored writers know...can they name names?
I've seen lots of interviews with British folk muscians from the 60s who felt 'bitter' with Simon for learning their songs, then taking them back to America and becoming famous with them.
This is Bert Jansch doing Davy Grahams Angi...
link to youtube.com
doesnt get better that imo.
Yeah, they are layered with hatred and detached from reality. Here is another I/P one...
link to daletoons.blogspot.com
Jeez. A whole lotta crazy imagery over at Daletoons. What a waste of art.
Man, what an ugly speech. The gall to call the Palestenians racist when that is the very thing that makes him ticks.
”.It is an interesting tactics that work very well for attention deficit American who has penchant for one liner."
Controlling the language is the best way to control how people think. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. Of course that is what Goldberg et al are really afriad of.
Wow.
Those are some amazing quotes. Thats that kind of thing that enrage just about any American. The sniper bit is just disgusting.
“I am not Israeli. The uniform that I wore in the military, unfortunately, was not an Israeli uniform. It was an American uniform, although my wife was in the IDF and one of my daughters was in the IDF ... our two little boys, one of whom will be bar mitzvahed tomorrow, hopefully he’ll come back-- his hobby is shooting -- and he’ll come back and be a sniper for the IDF,” Adelson said at the event.
“All we care about is being good Zionists, being good citizens of Israel, because even though I am not Israeli born, Israel is in my heart,” he said toward the end of his talk.
"And on the other side, I also am opposed to banning anyone that may I disagree with, unless that person is merely a “drive-by” poster, spewing hate and then not sticking around to hear and respond or engage in discussion. The discussion is what is important, and comments that border on being over the line are best dealt with by response and further discussion rather than censorship, IMHO."
I agree.
I love the site. I love the people who put it together.
But this new emphasis and concern for what people can or can't talk about in the comments is, to quote David Lynch....
"Total. Fcking. Bullsh*t."
link to youtube.com
Here is another one in the Times today about Iran...repeating multifaceted lies like
"One possibility is that it will capitulate and essentially dismantle its nuclear weapons program. That is obviously the outcome that Europeans and others hope sanctions (or even the credible threat of sanctions) will bring about"
link to nytimes.com
Written by
"Mark A. Heller is principal research associate at the Institute for National Security Studies, Tel Aviv University."
It even has some premitions about what Iran could do...
"These might be carried out as “false flag” operations by local Shiite insurgents concentrated in Saudi Arabia’s Eastern Province, but nobody would be fooled and the risks of escalation to large-scale conflict with Iran would be significant. "
and then he gives the message to Americans that the Europeans are now ready for war too repleat with a sexual allusion. (Wanting to go to war=Hard!! Not wanting=flaccid)
".... the European Union, notwithstanding its economic travails, is experiencing its own “spring” in foreign and defense policy and that those who tended in the past to dismiss it as a flaccid talking shop capable of little more than vacuous posturing now need to carry out a fundamental reassessment. "
Oh, The NY Times, so much to answer for.
He asked him about leaving his exwife and her saying he was unfit to be President...Newt cherished it as it allowed to be overly indignant and offended that such questions were being elevated to a presidential election debate, etc....The crowd went with him & he made King seem like a petty little man.
Ginrich was certainly prepared for the question. Whether King was or patsy or just an unprepared idiot, I dunno.
Funny. The Times ignores it. This Wall st Journal on Adelson opens its article with it
"A shared interest in supporting Israel, fostered over 15 years, is at the heart of casino mogul Sheldon Adelson's support for Newt Gingrich's presidential bid.
"http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204624204577181382074268206.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments
By ALICIA MUNDY and ALEXANDRA BERZON "
The Times is weak. They probably hemmed and hawed over mentioning it after being called out by Bibi for the Friedman article. The Journal does so much war mongering in their editorials that they can get away with mentioning Adleson here or the article about Obama and his concerns for donors earlier this year. I pity the people who have to make sense of the world through these papers.
"This video certainly serves as a useful compendium of the ways he has disappointed those who hoped he would bring "change" to US foreign policy. "
It does, doesn't it? What a epic dissapointment he is.
Ugh. This article is not well thought out..
Laura Rozen has an anonymous source and we are going to take it over the named Israelis sources in the Israeli media? We are going to believe that Barak asked for this to be called off last month and it is only on the weekend after the Iranin scientist is killed just before the excersice is to start...that its finalized and announced?
The rationale Rosen speculates about is nonsensical..."Now Israel doesnt want US troops in Israel..?" and the whole Israel will use make air strikes against Iran is not in line what Israels capabilities.
The simplier story is far more believable. The US called it off for fear that Israel was forcing their hand on Iran...with the escalation of the assasination and then the threat to the Straits of Hormuz.
Laura Rozen is probably carrying water for somebody to help make this incident seem like it doesnt impact US/Israel relations. You pushing this POV is probably just helping that myth.
Not sure if it was mentioned but Goldberg at the Atlantic has the following masquerading as journalism
"Is the Term 'Israel-Firster' Anti-Semitic?"
link to theatlantic.com
"There's been a controversy raging over the past month or so that I've avoided writing about mainly because it has a Groundhog Day quality to it. It began with this very interesting Ben Smith piece, but lately it has become tiresome. Apparently, it is not tiresome to other pepole, because it just keeps going. The seemingly most urgent question to emerge from this controversy is whether or not the term "Israel-firster" is anti-Semitic"
He doesn't mention the controversy about Bock losing his job for feeding journalists like himself info for them to use to smear writers critics of Israel..instead he goes into a pathetic...I'm not saying its antiSemitic, but
.."Its origins are certainly anti-Semitic...." but Goldberg is a nuanced guy, maybe you're not antisemitic, maybe
"They just might be ignorant, like J Street's Jeremy Ben-Ami, who to my surprise buys into the trope"
Its kind of ballsy article as it is exactly the hit piece that Bock was calling for. But then he was outed and disgraced...its as though Goldberg doesnt know that...or as is the case, he doesnt care. He should have been run out of town after Iraq, he's just become emboldened to lie now.
Wasn't this guy supposed to move to the Tablet? Did I confuse the J.Goldbergs?
mea culpa Donald. I believe Bruce said the thing about nixing comments. good night.
A call for civility is great.
"Don’t trample on people’s feelings unnecessarily"
but when you cross over into...'lets accept these premises'...well I've got no time for that. I have complicated feeling about these things, I want to discuss them, understand them and get nearer to the truth. You can't do that when you create rules about what can and can't questioned.
Up above you say something about, Mondo scrapping comments altogether. Really? I don't even know what to say to that.
I'd sign that petition. Is that even controversial?
"i find it very very telling after that discussion we’ve got a proposal here for a new list of rules."
And its shame cause that was a thread Mondo should be proud of. I mean that sincerely.
Donald,
All due respect, your post made nauseous. I don't have time to say much, but the idea of having some sort of natural laws for the site instead of letting ideas rise or fall thru debate is the contrary to what makes MW so special. Its a god awful idea.
It does look interesting.
The quote...
"Order and justice don't always go hand in hand. "
is another telling quote.
I agree with most of that.
in re to this
"Perhaps this leak was NOT meant so much for Iranians who are not that stupid to buy this gimmick as it was for the American public but it seems to have fizzled in the media."
Probably not cause Perry did 2 interviews. 1 with AlJezzera and the other with the Israeli mag 972. He also played down what this means to US/Israeli relations which is kind of irrational considering what his article was about. And yes, there was a US media blackout of the article. I don't think it was meant for the US public.
I agree its no time for COMPLACENCY. The rapidity that Iran has replaced Iraq and become demonized in America the quickness of the sanctions and saber rattling, the lack of push back from the media, makes it clear that America is 'a thing that can be easily moved' ...to war.
haha. No. sorry, I meant it like 'this is some over the top bs.' Maybe its slang?
:)
Hi American,
Yeah, I agree with all that.
The lies all over that article...'it was the Israelis that cancelled it' 'its not an unsual to cancel a massive excerise like this days before it begins' 'Barak wanted to cancel it...he request it a month ago!'
It is too bad shes found a spot on Yahoo. A lot of people get thier news from there...and they aren't going to notice being lulled into ingnorance.
This is rich.
All the articles have been saying the US asked to postpone it. First due to costs and then so as not to rile Iran. That was the latest on Haartez
link to news.yahoo.com
"Israeli defense officials tell Channel 2 that Washington wants to avoid causing further tensions in region after various foreign reports of U.S. and Israeli preparations for strike on Iran."
Yet over on Yahoo Laura Rozen a Senior Foreign Affairs Reporter...chuckle...Was/is(?) on Politico has it as
"Israel requests delay in US-Israel missile defense exercise
A major U.S.-Israeli missile defense exercise that had been planned to take place in the spring has been postponed due to a request by the Israeli Defense Ministry, American and Israeli officials told Yahoo News Sunday.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak issued a request to the Pentagon last month that the planned joint exercise be postponed, a U.S. official told Yahoo News Sunday.
"It was Barak," the U.S. official said on condition of anonymity."
link to news.yahoo.com
and she also includes a bunch of bunk about how cancelling an operation like this is not unusual. That sure looks like some straghit up manipulation right there.
I recall seeing her name on Politico. I looked at her twitter here
link to twitter.com
Just browsing it from yesterdays CIA story she has post about Israelis saying they introduced themselves as Nato representatives..which I guess sounds better than impersonating CIA, but which contradicts the FP article.
Link it with the OWS demanding no war against iran - Link it with the Tea Party demanding an end to forgein aid - Link it with the Democrats who say they care about equal rights - Link it with the Republicans who feel its a risk to the military - and support BDS and counter Islamaphobia and on and on.
Whatever gets Americans aware of I/P is IMO, good for the 'cause'.
"if there really was a official “anti-israel as it is” wing of the democratic party, who would be its official spokespeople? my guess is dudes like blumenthal."
Thats silly. If Blumenthal wanted to make it in Democratic party, wouldn't he just tow the line and not take up a conterversial position like advocating for the Palestenians? Supporting Palestenians, thats a dumb career move, isn't is?
If the tide changes, hopefully people like him who took princibled stances will grab some power.
I don’t know who are you’re quoting with this
“trying to elect better democrats” bs but it isn’t me, so don’t use double quotes.
If you’re worried about I/P becoming a partisan issue you ought to contact the Emergency Committee for Israel and tell em to tone it down. They are the ones taking out the full page ads about Israel/Obama. If you feel so strongly maybe you can reach out to the ADL or Wasserman at the DNC and see if they can suggest some activism for you.
You're wasting your outrage on me. Me, I’m only expressing my opinion that it’s a good thing that the American public begin to know more about Palestinians than ‘they danced on 911’. The war of ideas… having more people supporting the Palestinians is a good thing. It’s not mutually exclusive to supporting BDS or in believing “the whole US political system is corrupted” it doesn’t make me an Obama apologist or Democrat or anything you seem to be assuming.
My opinion also isn’t going make a difference to the “survival of millions of people (Palestinians)”…I’ll take a gamble, neither will yours, so, by all means, please spare me the hyperbole and god like predications. We have different opinions. Oh well...and the world keeps turning.
Are you serious? You need to get over yourself.
"There is no aisle" when it comes to Israel in Washington, today. In 'reality' both paties can be counted on to go out of their way to fck over the Palestinians.
Its a gift Republicans have gone so overboard in their proclamations of love for Israel...its forcing people on the left to take a position on the issue and see Israel for what it is. I think thats a good thing. Abe Foxman doesnt like it. Apparently you don't either. Ok. Moving on...