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- Abulhawa declines to ‘balance out’ several Israelis in ‘Al Jazeera’ … 74
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- The Latest from Mondoweiss for 05/21/2013 - http://t.co/kh6lMQYfwK, 30 mins ago
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Recent Comments
click link to see last 100 comments- Abulhawa declines to ‘balance out’ several Israelis in ‘Al Jazeera’ forum on Nakba (74)
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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
You mean that Fatah could not expect to control Palestine, after Israel ceased to exist?
Interesting post!
I think any American senator faces heavy pressure to toe the line, from Aipac.
Ramzi - - Yes, "liberal" generally, but not on matters pertaining to Israel.
Shingo - - Great post, and in my view one that supports the 2002 Saudi peace plan as being generous to Israel.
Bravo, SQ Debris!
@riyadh - - If Israel blocks the "two-state" solution, obvioiusly Fatah will go for the "one-state" solution.
@Citizen - - Important points. Ones Boxer herself should consider carefully.
@ritzl - - Great post.
@BrianEsker - - Are you not aware that the Hmas/Fatah unity Palestinians gov't ACCEPTED the 2002 Saudi peace plan? Calling for recognition of Israel within its pre-1967 borders.
@Shingo - - I think you are dead right on this point.
Ramzi - Thanks. I did not mean to suggest Boxer had a legal obligation to toe the line set by Aipac. Political realityin California in 2013 says she toes Aipac line.
Bravo, Exactitude!
Great post, Exactitude. 2002 Saudi peace plan defined borders of Palestine. In effect. Israel rejected the generous offer.
Ramzi - - Is a US Senator from California obliged to do the bidding of Aipac? Quite possibly.
Bravo, Philip. The "pro-Israel factor" in Iraq war was enormous.
Brian - - You are mistaken if you think opposition to this unwise legislation is equivalent to rejecting the existence of Israel.
Inanna - - Private comments may well indicate otherwise.
True, Seafoid.
Punishing the Palestinians for sins committed by Europeans on a different continent, cannot be regarded as "just".
The head of Hamas is interviewed today at foreignpolicy.com.
Why he broke with Syrian gov't.
Why Hamas wants Israel out of West Bank.
@German Lefty - - I strongly endorse the 2002 Saudi peace plan.
The art of diplomacy is the pursuit of what is possible.
Bashar al-Assad said time and again he would sign a peace deal with Israel immediately, provided Israel got out of the Golan Heights.
One factor may simply be that many Hindus do not want their children to marry Muslims. Or to "date" them, for that matter. (And the reverse is also true, often enough.)
Notion of "caste" is Hindu. Religious, not racial.
@German Lefty - - I have difficulty answering your questions because my posts often get held up for days, and longer.
You wanted me to confess I was a "Zionist" because I think it difficult for the programme to succeed, by which Israel would be replaced by Palestine.
I confess I miss the point. Who is hijacking?
@seafoid - - But "Muslims" might be of identical race to Hindus objecting to their presence next door.
@Stephen - - Is your statement correct, re: extent of "segregation" in US?
@Woody - - Isn't the real issue typically more one arising from issues of "social class" rather than race?
Great post, Woody!
@Qualtrough - - Some observers say much the same thing obtains in South America.
Perhaps even in Cuba, and elsewhere in North America. Haiti, especially.
Bravo, RoHa. Palestine does exist, even if this annoys Mitt Romney, Sheldon Adelson, AIPAC, etc etc et al. et al.
@Quercus - - I assume you are aware of how important the Washington Post was, in helping to end the Vietnam War.
Still an imporant influencer of opinion, but sadly in the wrong way more often than not (in matters pertaining to Israel/Palestine).
@German Lefty - - I think some people regard a "Muslim" as by definition someone of a different "race", when the difference may be religious. So, they admit they would object to someone of a different race when they would in fact be objecting to that person's religion.
IL - - The fact a person is a "Muslim" does not mean that person is of a different race from a Christian. Or a Jew.
@German Lefty - - I too find it unlikely that Americans are more "racially tolerant" than Germans.
Another race? Or, is it another religion? This would seem likely explanation for Indian figure.
Khaled Meshaal, the Hamas chief, is interviewed by David Kenner at ForeignPolicy site. Well worth reading. [14 May 2013]
A good thing, no?
Great news, Gingershot! Rick Steves filming in the occupied West Bank! Rick had intended to do a programme on Syria, prior to outbreak of vicious civil war.
This story needs to be in all major US newspapers.
Bravo, Annie.
Did Seattle buses have ads, several years ago, that Israel lobby found objectionable? And forced their removal?
@Citizen - - Please remind me: are those who want Israel out of the West Bank and the Golan Heights, "Zionists"? "Anti-Zionists"?
@German Lefty - - Do we agree that "one man, one vote" in Israel AND West Bank, would likely mean Israel would "disappear from the map", as predicted by several Iranian leaders?
UNLESS, that is, Israel drives the non-Jews out of the West Bank.
@German Lefty - - Many Zionists do hope, and think possible, the expulsion of enough non-Jews from the West Bank, to allow Israel to keep it in its entirety.
RoHa - - Many European diplomats think Israeli stupidity regarding the illegal colonies, is eroding the so-called "safe haven" status Israel purports to provide for "Jews".
@German Lefty - - The Rev. John Hagee purports to believe that if Jews drive out the non-Jews from "the Land of Israel", it will bring "End Times" and Jews will go to hell, and Hagee and his followers will go to heaven.
@German Lefty - - South Africa was not "destroyed". Still there, if you look at a map.
I think Israel needs to get out of the West Bank and the Golan Heights. I doubt this makes me eligible to be regarded as a "Zionist".
Yes, part of the game plan, by Israel (in West Bank). (And, to lesser extent, inside Israel itself.)
@German Lefty - - Sometimes "the best" outcome is the enemy of "a good" outcome.
You apparently think that Israel can be forced to destroy itself, provided enough international pressure is brought to bear on the country. Most European diplomats strongly disagree.
German Lefty - - An argument can be made that enabling the return to Palestine, albeit a much-truncated Palestine, is better than no return at all.
Bravo, Annie. BTW, I understand the specific advice Dennis Ross gives Obama, is how various ideas and policies (regardeing Israel/Palestine etc) play with certain rich and powerful Jews. Ross' links to these people is what enabled him to elbow George Mitchell aside. (As I understand things.)
@Citizen - - Thanks for the links. Peter Beinart wants Israel to keep the Golan Heights? Bad idea.
Jews and non-Jews should encourage American newspapers to print good photgraphs of the Separation Wall in the West Bank, as often as possible. Many Americans take their daily conversational diet from pictures they see in newspapers.
And let's remember the Israeli rampage in Gaza in late 2008, that wrecked the Turkish effort to bring peace between Israel and Syria.
Did Obama operatives ask the Israelis to get on with it, so Obama did not have to deal with it when he entered the White House?
Hamas had been observing the cease-fire with Israel.
And most, if not all, Christian leaders in the West Bank say the Israeli occupation has been catastrophic for their communities.
@Citizen - - You have your finger on why George C. Marshall and the rest of Truman's advisers (military and foreign policy) opposed recognition of Israel by US in 1948.
Bravo, Kathleen. Will Dershowitz stop undermining the national security of the American people? Fair question.
Is Hawking trying to "destroy" Israel?
Or, does Hawking think Israel should get out of the West Bank, for its own sake?
Wow. Foolish US officials complained that Google put "Palestine" into its search engine? What horses' arses.
Good luck with that, Ramzi.
Dickerson - - Netanyahu is only too well aware he has numerous stooges in the US Congress, only too keen to do his bidding. And to scr*w the Palestinians.
@Seafoid - - And Reagan got into the White House, in part due to the scamming of the American people (all the cr*p about "America held hostage").
@Citizen - - Don't forget Alexander Haig, Jr. Haig concealed from the American defence secretary, the fact Israel was going to invade Lebanaon.
@Hostage - - Important PR angle comes into play, at least normally. But how many US newspapers continue to claim, falsely, that the Palestinians refuse to accept Israel's existence?
Mike - - Obama, and Kerry, have asked the Palestinian leadership not to go to the ICC.
@seafoid - - Why do you buy the narrative sold by the illegal Jewish colonists in the West Bank? 700,000 illegal Jews in West Bank. So what?
Important piece.
Even Yassir Arafat, four decades ago, could see Israel was "here to stay" and that a deal needed to be made.
Conceivably, Israel could achieve through the stupidity of its own leaders, what the Arabs saw as highly unlikely.
Maximus - - You apparently have missed a very big story. Are you aware of Prince Bandar bin Sultan's plans that caused him to be arrested in Saudi Arabia?
Gamal - - Do you think it would have been better for the people of Iraq, if the illegal invasion of Iraq had never taken place? I do.
Saudi Arabia needs stability, economic growth generated by work carried out by Saudis, where possible, etc etc etc.
Overthrow of the monarchy would not produce a democracy.
I do not expect an Israeli attack on Iran, while Obama is in White House.
Bravo, Kathleen.
I think Obama has made it very clear Iran will not be allowed to build nukes, while he is US president.
If a blockade of Iran's oil exports is a possiblility, getting other countries to back this would be sensible.
Didn't Prince Bandar bin Sultan toy with the idea Saudis would turn to Russia for primary source of weapons, support, etc?
What do you think the Saudis can do to get Israel out of the West Bank and Golan Heights?
Sumud - - Your confidence that an overthrow of the Saudi monarchy would bring better government to Saudi Arabia is unwarranted, in my view (and the view of many who know the country).
MK_Ultra - - To what degree is the notion of an American "empire" a means of duping ignorant Americans into supporting idiotic levels of "defence" spending?
Ritzl - - China has told Iran not to impede shipping in the Persian Gulf. Clearly, this is the way forward. China buys huge amounts of oil from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. And Iran.
And Iran, yes. Bravo.
Russia and China oppose any Iranian nukes. Full stop. So do Germany, France, Britain.
Regrettably, Iran has done considerable damage to its credibility, by stockpiling 20 percent enriched uranium, in amounts rather higher than needed to produce fuel for the research reactor in Tehran.
The Gulf states see that Iran may in effect force a blockade against Iranian oil exports, to be imposed. This in turn could ignite hostilities.
Keith - - Why did the Soviet Union refuse to accept American assistance (Marshall Plan)?
USSR intended to dominate Europe, after end of Second World War.
Germany was improtant part of Western defence.
RoHa - - I know that in Britain there are quite a few Christians, who have serious doubts about rather a lot that one who is Christian is supposed to accept. But they are still Christians, especially in the cultural sense. Support their village church, etc.
@Woody - - Is it agreed generally that Morgenthau lacked an adequate understanding of the sweep of history, reversals of alliances, etc?
One might ask why the children of mixed marriages, where one parent is a Jew, should be raised as Jews.
@Citizen - - Great points, in response to RoHa. Emotional challenges resultig from being alienated from family and friends, etc etc etc.
But as you say, the Amish do not control the foreign policy of the US.
Certainly Germany saw it as necessary to make restitution in one way or another.
And yes, the Palstinians have been punished for sins committed by others.
Citizen - - The appalling slaughter of the Civil War in England, and religious struggles later in the 17th century, helped foster a search for something in the way of intellectual compromise.
Hostage, re: early days of British Mandate for Palestine:
"For most British in Palestine, Zionism was associated dimly with Bolshevism, international conspiracy theories and notions of widespread Jewish influence, and tainted, paradoxically, by both its German and East European intellectual origins."
[Quoted from "Mandate Days: British Lives in Palestine 1918-1948", by A.J. Sherman]
Yes, collective punishment of the Germans, was Morgenthau's object. Was Morgenthau willing to undermine the national security of the West, to achieve this object?
Bravo, Marc B. Morgenthau clearly failed to comprehend that possession of most of Germany, by the West, was essential to allied security. Against Soviet threat.
I have Jewish friends who say they are "Jewish" in a cultural context. Never set foot in a synagogue, unless it is for a bar mitzvah. etc etc
But we should remember the heavy pressure brought by Jews on the British government, during the 1920s and 30s, to allow Jewish immigration into Palestine.
Question: was Morgenthau so filled with hatred, that he would happily have gravely injured the national security of the American people, in order to wreak his revenge on the Germans?
Hop - - The Israel lobby took out politicians prepared to resist the demands of that lobby. Full stop. The "unpoplarity" of the politicians was largely manufactured by the lobby.
Woody - - Morganthau simply lacked an adequate understanding of history. Full stop.
yonah - - I think the truth of the matter is simply that Morganthau did not have a good understanding of the sweep of history, shifting alliances, etc etc etc.
I know a goodly number of Jews who married non-Jews, and the family is considered "Jewish" even if they eat ham sandwiches, etc etc.
One can be a Christian and seldom set foot in a Christian church. One can be "Jewish" whatever is thought by the so-called authorities.
Every US newspaper should try to have a good photograph each week, of the Apartheid wall in Palestine. Fat chance.
Surely "anti-Zionist Jew" is clearly and easily understood term.
Most upper-class Jews in England, 100 years ago, were "anti-Zionist Jews".
And Rabbi Michael Lerner of Berkeley, California, is an expert on pressure on Jews to be quiet about what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, etc etc.
Pressure by Jewish organisations.
The balance after the Second World War was between East and West. Germany was important factor in weight of the West.
Bravo, Hostage.
How big was the march and rally in London, against Tony Blair's pending illegal invasion of Iraq? One million?
US news media help cause relative lethargy by concealing important aspects of the idiotic wars the US has waged in the greater Middle East since "9/11".
I think Hop is well aware of the casualty list of American politicians willing to challenge the Israel lobby.
Many of the true believers, of Pat Robertson, John Hagee, et al., do indeed have blinders on and they often have no desire whatever to consider actual facts.
German strength was a vital part of West's ability to deter Soviet aggression.
And let us thank Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands.
But let's remember that JFK's reading of "The Guns of August" helped convince him not to follow the advice of most of his military advisers during the Cuban Missile Crisis (Oct. 1962).
Idiotic plan of revenge, by Morgenthau.
Forced exile, in case of Spain in 1492, or at least to pretend to be Christian. Many Jews grew rich due to fabulous wealth flowing from Spain's holdings in the New World. But they had to rpetend to be Christians. (Some genuinely converted, of course).
Yes, Jews certainly are thriving in the US. 140 of the Forbes 400 richest Americans. Remarkable bit of thriving, to say the least.
US recognition of Israel before borders were clarified, was cited by virtually all Truman's military and foreign policy advisers, as reason not to recognise Israel at that time.
Israel was seen as a "millstone" around the neck of the US.
American - - Yes, absolutely. And Morgenthau's plan was supremely idiotic. Imbecilic. Germany was vital part of Western defence.
Hostage - - And let's not forget the B.O.S.S. (Bureau of State Security). Making too much noise about apartheid could pose risks.
Yonah - - Judaism as you like to view it?
Debate, dialogue, whatever. More noise about idiotic Israeli colonisation programme in the West Bank.
@Hostage - - Most European diplomats trying to get Israel out of the West Bank, think that Palestine must not be able to have an effective army, or air force. Otherwise, getting Israel out of WB is impossible, in their view.