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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Phil, I disagree with this:
" though in the end they come up short. The comedians are unable to talk about the Israel lobby, "
They didn't come up short. They connected all the dots, lots and lots of dots, and left it for the view to say to himself. If anything, they mocked the idea that you just can say the Israel Lobby benefitted.
I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun
See how they fly, I'm crying
Andrew Sullivan endorsed Ron Paul months ago.
The NY Times didn't cover the Andrew Adler "Gee, the Mossad really should think about assassinating Obama" story. Neither did the Washington Post.
No, he will not be free if he wins reelection. If he doesn't toe the line, his party members in the House and Senate go in the crapper two years later.
The problem is campaign finance, plain and simple.
Watch for Andy Samberg to get labeled a self-hater for exposing that one to the general public.
That's okay. Apartheid is expensive. Israel should have to pay full price for it.
Oren seems to think only Israelis dislike being freiers.
I wonder if the ombudsman will get fired for his off-the-record comment?
The freest press in the world? That's a laugh. According to Reporters Without Borders, Israel ranks 86th in terms of press freedom, just below Serbia. By the way, the US is 20th.
link to en.rsf.org
"Am I too optimistic? "
I've already seen two diametrically opposed reactions. One acquaintance is throwing Israel under the bus, another one continues to dissemble, as he did with each event that disappointed him (Netanyahu's reelection, Cast Leadm the failure to halt settlement building, the Mavi Marmara (it's the boiled frog phenomenon with him).
It was 94% of Israeli Jews.
link to news.xinhuanet.com
Best laugh since you "started here"? And what's your salary? Or do you get paid by the post?
oops. That's "ARE we all just so used to Israel's criminal behavior that...."
All we all just so used to Israel's criminal behavior that the meaning of this barely registers:
"A police source told the daily Maariv that an effort will be made to locate the activists before they board their flights to Israel. "
Apparently, it doesn't matter what country you're in. And they have no problem saying it out loud. Sick, sick place.
The post above was meant as a response to eee.
The cost of your side's stupidity so far has been nine lives and the condemnation of the world. I'd say the flotilla activists have a slightly better record.
They really will try anything, won't they? Except looking inward, of course.
Barred from the country for ten years?
Sounds like heaven.
Why doesn't Shavit (and like-minded people) ever consider that if Israel has to attempt to make peace with THE WORLD over and over again, perhaps the problem is not with the world, but with Israel?
No, you're mistaken. They dogged the congressional dems and they eviscerated the zios trying to downplay it. Look at these two articles and check out the comments.
www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979212/-Cowardly-Senate-Dems-to-Rebuke-the-President-on-67-Borders-(Non)IssueUPDATED?via=stream
www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979353/-David-Mizner-(Rec-List)-is-an-Anti-Semite?via=stream
No, I'm not asking about race-based justifications. I'm asking about rebellion against organized Jewish groups whose activities were actually weakening the host state (kingdom, empire, as the case may be). Activities such as the current project of promoting unswerving support of Israel and boxing in the president and congress so that there is no choice to act otherwise, when our real national interests (energy and security) would be better served by dropping Israel as an ally.
Serious question. The power-mongering, manipulation of the populace and undermining of the US's national security interests that's going on right now--did the same sort of thing go on in the run-ups to historic atrocities perpetrated against the Jewish people?
Meh.
She also says things like, "reconnecting with compassion," "a new imagination about shared life," "the simple act of presence," and "compassion cultivates and practices curiosity."
zzzzzz......
Most people assume that if someone points out a mistake, he or she would also want to "fix" the mistake. In the case of hysterical zionists, when they hear someone say the creation of Israel was a mistake, they assume that someone therefore wants to "fix" the mistake by "uncreating" Israel. That is the context that is missing. Kushner does not want to destroy Israel, and he doesn't consider it illegitimate at this point, now that it's here. Just as he doesn't want to destroy the United States, which was also created by dispossessing the indigenous people.
It Won't Work...
Well I would certainly hope that Arabic is an official language of Israel. 20% of its citizens are Palestinian Arabs and 50% of its Jews are Arabs.
Obviously Roger Cohen and/or the NYT management are not yet ready to subject themselves to the treatment Goldstone got. Can you blame them?
"P.S. - Should Obama ever visit Israel, I wonder if the Israeli right will curse him with a Pulsa diNura, as they allegedly did prior to assassinating Rabin. It would not shock me at all if they made an attempt on Obama's life, Israeli anti-Obama hate runs rampant."
I've always thought that's why he's never gone there.
Do you think it's possible that someone in the MSM will be reporting this Weiner bombshell? Someone like...Roger Cohen, perhaps?
The Arabic version of the story DOES name the former general and the company. It's General Yisrael Ziv, and the company is Global CST. The source (according to the reporter) is an un-named Yediot Ahronot reporter.
The payments from the US to Egypt and Israel are not part of the peace treaty. So, problem solved! Just kill the payments and keep the peace.
Israel deserves its fate not because of its hate, or its fear, but because of its hubris. The "reality" that Israel is reacting to is the reality it created. As Jerry Haber put it, "the Jews should have thought of that before they established the state of Israel. If they could not establish a state that would be able to live in peace with its Arab neighbors, but decided to press on with an "Iron Wall" mentality, then they are reaping what they sowed. "
"The only relevant power is the power of the Israeli electorate."
Wrong. Please see the fate of the proposed Law of Return bill, July, 2010.
Here's a little reminder:
"This week Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister, said he would not support the bill. His decision came after intense lobbying from outside Israel."
link to life.nationalpost.com
Thanks, Henry. Yes, I know the 2007 date is bogus, and Annie, I do know it was called an embargo before 2007. Also, don't forget Gilad Shalit was captured in June of 2006, and that was part of Israel's calculation as well.
Knowing that New York Times would not consider any other source than themselves regarding the facts of the situation, I was just trying to point out that the NYT is upending even its own previous propaganda about the siege of Gaza.
Here are a few more from the NYTimes.
An Ethan Bronner article from July 14, 2010:
"Israel drew strong international criticism for a raid on a flotilla trying to breach the blockade of Gaza. On Tuesday, Egypt reopened its border with Gaza to allow aid to flow through, while another ship had reportedly been sent to the region. Pressure intensified on Israel to end the blockade, which it and Egypt imposed after the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007."
Oh, look, here's one from Kershner herself, from June, 3, 2010:
"Gaza has been under an Israeli-led blockade since Hamas took full control of the territory in 2007."
Another one from Kershner. May 31, 2010:
"Israeli officials said that international law allowed for the capture of naval vessels in international waters if they were about to violate a blockade. The blockade was imposed by Israel and Egypt after the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007. Israel’s deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, said Monday that the blockade was “aimed at preventing the infiltration of terror and terrorists into Gaza.”
Kershner could have just searched her own paper's archives to find the correct information. This is from a June 28, 2006 article by Steve Erlanfer and Ian Fisher.
"The economy has broken down under an embargo of western aid since Hamas took power in January. They contend they remain under a siege, even after the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza last year, with their borders often closed and encircled by Israeli warplanes and ships."
and here's a NYT opinion piece headline:
"Israel's scandalous siege of Gaza - Opinion - International Herald Tribune
Patrick Seale
Published: Friday, October 27, 2006"
Here's an "overview" of Gaza that was updated on December 17, 2010:
"Gaza has remained largely isolated from the international community since it came under the control of the Palestinaian political faction Hamas, which has refused to accept the conditions set by the so-called quartet of Middle East peacemakers, including renouncing violence, recognizing Israel's right to exist and accepting previous signed agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. In 2006, Hamas swept parliamentary elections in Gaza. Israel and Egypt imposed a strict economic embargo on the area, allowing in only basic supplies."
This is from "Rethinking the Blockade," from June 1, 2010:
"Israel drew strong international criticism for a raid on a flotilla trying to breach the blockade of Gaza. On Tuesday, Egypt reopened its border with Gaza to allow aid to flow through, while another ship had reportedly been sent to the region. Pressure intensified on Israel to end the blockade, which it and Egypt imposed after the Hamas takeover of Gaza in 2007."
There are pages and pages more.
Jerry Haber's post above has this revolting exchange:
Udi Dekel: We don't see the 1967 border as a reference, first because we don't even know exactly where the line is.
Saeb Arekat: We have all the maps that were signed by you.
UD: But that wasn't exactly the line on the ground.
SA: If not the 1967 line, then what is your reference?
UD: We said already, the situation on the ground.
SA: The wall?
UD: The security fence is not a border. Unfortunately, it is needed for security. Every week we intercept 3 to 4 suicide bombers. As we've said before, the fence is not a border and can be moved like we did with Lebanon. [ Comment by Jerry: This standard Israeli line was belied by the government lawyers' testimony before the Supreme Court in the Bil'in case, where they said that Israel would indeed claim the area up to the fence in subsequent negotiations.].
Nizar Farsakh: What is your frame of reference?
UD: We're talking about blocs of settlements—not far in the West Bank, but close to the area we are talking about—are to be part of Israel. In Oslo we used the West Bank outline map.
DT: It is the West Bank outline map, in which under our law Israeli military law is applied.
SA: This is your law. In our law, the line is 1967.
DT: Based on which maps? There is no…
SA: This is the standard we've worked from, from Oslo to Taba… we are not going to discuss any other line. If we're going to waste time this is something else.
UD: This is your opinion, but not our opinion. It is very difficult to locate the exact line of the situation that existed on 4 June 1967. It's not the same line. But for us, the baseline we use is the outline of the West Bank. It may be close, but it's not the same line. You mentioned the NML—you can't say this is "occupied".
SA: It doesn't belong to you either. The Jordan army was there at least in some places, but the Israeli army was not anywhere (in the NML).
UD: This is our line. We have proof that the area was split and we consider it part of Israel
NF: This was a gentlemen's agreement that was not signed whereby the farmers from each side cultivate up to the middle of the NML, but then a dispute erupted in 1964 whereby this arrangement was dismissed.
UD: We do not agree.
NF: OK, then we agree to disagree.
Khalid Elgindy: There are two practical problems with your approach. How can we start from realities on the ground when the situation on the ground keeps changing, even as we speak. Second, how can we identify which areas in Israel would be swapped in exchange for what is being taken in the West Bank if we don't have a reference line?
UD: We are not speaking in the same dimension. We are not speaking about "giving" and "taking"… we are taking about realities. Our goal is to create a better situation for Palestinians, as well as for Israelis.
Hold the phone, there's an interesting piece by former CIA, Robert Grenier, also at al Jazeera. About the PA leadership he writes:
In doing so, they knew, they ran an enormous risk. For if their successful efforts to end terror failed to elicit a good-faith response from the Israelis, and if their conformity to international expectations and their cooperation in the US war on terror failed to convince the US to advocate effectively on their behalf, they could easily be branded as quislings, as trustees of the Israeli prison being inexorably constructed for their people.
Their good works, they knew, instead of being rewarded, might only make the status quo more comfortable for the Israelis, and incentivize greater Israeli obduracy.
I have spent many hours reading The Palestine Papers, the recent 10-year record of the so-called Israeli-Palestinian peace process. The picture which clearly emerges from these pages of the Palestinian leadership and of the peace process negotiators themselves is that these are no quislings. For month after month, year after year, through endless, mind-numbing subcommittee meetings and plenary sessions, through interminable exchanges of letters and legal briefs, slogging from hotel meetings in Jerusalem to conferences in Egypt to “summit meetings” in Washington, the Palestinian negotiators tirelessly advocate on behalf of their people’s interests. In the face of Israeli condescension, obfuscation, and endless legalistic pettifogging they continually push back, insisting on application of relevant international law, despite the Israelis’ obvious contempt for their international obligations.
They persist in the face of the Americans’ blatant advocacy on behalf of the Israelis, refusing to cave in to consistent American pressure designed to force the Palestinians to compensate for Israeli inflexibility with ever-greater concessions of their own.
Maybe Obama will get the vote, but congressional dems will not. They will get a primary challenge. To avoid that, they will knee-cap Obama at every opportunity to prove their pro-Israel bona fides. Remember when they told Obama to lay off Netanyahu while Netanyahu was crapping all over Biden and Obama by announcing settlements every two seconds? Obama will not be able to get anything done in congress. So he will not do the right thing. You are dreaming. It's a nice dream, but a dream nonetheless.
Once again, how can this be "big" if we all know that Jewish money for Obama's re-election will dry up if Obama were to "do the right thing?"
Gellian must be Sephardic.
Tony Judt explains:
"The essence of Labour Zionism, still faithful in those years to its founding dogmas, lay in the promise of Jewish work: the idea that young Jews from the diaspora would be rescued from their effete, assimilated lives and transported to remote collective settlements in rural Palestine—there to create (and, as the ideology had it, recreate) a living Jewish peasantry, neither exploited nor exploiting. Derived in equal measure from early-nineteenth-century socialist utopias and later Russian myths of egalitarian village communities, Labour Zionism was characteristically fragmented into conflicting sectarian cults...
...But all were agreed on the broader moral purpose: bringing Jews back to the land and separating them from their rootless diasporic degeneracy. For the neophyte fifteen-year-old Londoner encountering the kibbutz for the first time, the effect was exhilarating. Here was “Muscular Judaism” in its most seductive guise: health, exercise, productivity, collective purpose, self-sufficiency, and proud separatism—not to mention the charms of kibbutz children of one’s own generation, apparently free of all the complexes and inhibitions of their European peers (free, too, of most of their cultural baggage—though this did not trouble me until later)."
link to nybooks.com
That is one beautifully-written tweet.
Yes, it's very scary to have an intelligent, friendly Iranian available for all of America to see. And married to a Jew from the State Department. OH NOZ!
You know what would be a neat trick? If they could figure out how to exist without the need of a mortal enemy. C'mon Israel, use your big brains.
Because you're not using reality-based punctuation? Seriously, Annie, even e.e. cummings used periods properly. Your posts are very difficult to read.
But seriously, it's not your ideas or outlook. IMO, the zionists who inhabit dkos have some moving to do, and you're too far out ahead of them.
No wonder it keeps happening. Is there a prayer that starts "In every generation we decide ruthlessness is what keeps us alive, and then they rise against us..."
Sand? The Guardian article says, "Nato commanders fear neighbouring Pakistan and Iran are fuelling the insurgency."
Iran. That means we have to bomb them, of course.
They've already hung him. It was about a year and a half ago.
And?? It's is true, is it not?
I wonder if they (Goldberg, Smith, etc) believe what they write on this topic. That's scarier than thinking they are just cynically clutching the status quo.
How dramatic. But untrue even by your definition of "collective punishment," unless you believe the entirety of the Jewish people are profiting from the Occupation.
The New York Times is reporting today (July 15th) that
"A Libyan ship that tried to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza docked in the Egyptian port of El Arish on Thursday afternoon, amid claims by the ship’s sponsor, Saif al-Islam el-Qaddafi, that the boat agreed not to go to Gaza after a deal was struck with the Israeli government that would allow Libya to send building and reconstruction supplies to the Palestinians."
I hope that's true.
And now gone again. Hmmm.
They are back on the martimetraffice website.
13 minutes ago, Ethan Bronner dropped an article on the NYT website, entitled "Gaza-Bound Ship Diverts to Egypt." The ship hasn't docked yet, but it is no longer showing up on the Marinetraffic website. Bronner's article states that the ship might have engine trouble. That's interesting.
The Reuters article doesn't report a docking, it reports that the ship has asked to dock in Egypt. In fact, the headline is "Libyan aid ship nears Gaza, but final port in doubt."
Well, the product they had to promote this time (commandos good/humanitarians bad) was a bit of a turd. Of course, they didn't know it until Frank Luntz told them so:
"A summary of the findings:
1. 56% of Americans agree with the claim that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza;
2. 43% of Americans agree with the claim that people in Gaza are starving;
3. 34% of Americans support the Israeli operation against the Flotilla;
4. 20% of Americans “felt support” for Israel following announcement of easing of Gaza closure. And now that he has, this story of Israeli vindication will not be trumpeted across all media platforms. "
link to thinkprogress.org
And now that Luntz has informed zionists of what people with functioning moral compasses think, this story of Israeli vindication will be left to wither on the vine, rather than being trumpeted across all media. You watch.
I don't understand why people think that Israel refusing to enter into a two-state solution means it is committing national suicide. Don't people think Israel is capable of Nakba 2.0?
Here's the whole google search blurb:
Report: US to support anti-Israel resolution
Ynetnews - Yitzhak Benhorin - 25 minutes ago
Washington sources told Ynet on Friday that the US administration is disappointed with Israel's proposed solution for an investigation into the flotilla ...
Yes, they learned it from YNET, which has since changed it's headline. But the old headline, "Report: US to support anti-Israel resolution
Ynetnews - Yitzhak Benhorin - 25 minutes ago" still comes up when you google "Blockade" and "Ynet," sorted by news and date.
Here's an interview from Grit TV. It's a first hand account of what happened on the Freedom Flotilla from retired U.S Military Colonel and U.S. State Department Official, Ann Wright.
link to grittv.org
More GRITtv
Of course they are afraid. They are imagining that Arabs might be as savage as they have been if ever they got the chance. You know, eye for and eye, and all that.
Richard, buck-up, man. Rasmussen has a right-leaning house effect.
Here's Nate Silver on the subject.
"What Rasmussen has had is a 'house effect'. So far in the 2010 cycle, their polling has consistently and predictably shown better results for Republican candidates than other polling firms have. But such house effects can emerge from legitimate differences of opinion about how to model the electorate."
"But there are other respects in which I'm much less sympathetic to Rasmussen's case. In particular, this has to do with their choices of question wording and subject matter. The Politico question, for instance, points toward an August question in which Rasmussen asked It’s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money. That is not a question designed to elicit the most accurate reflection of public opinion."
"Likewise, Rasmussen recently produced a poll in which they purported to describe the Democratic health care plan to their respondents. Several other pollsters have found that support for the plan increases when it is actually described to respondents, but Rasmussen showed no such increase. However, the second sentence in their description reads:
The plans before Congress would prohibit people from choosing insurance plans with lower premiums and higher deductibles.
I don't particularly know where this comes from; Rasmussen claims that its questions came from a 'summary of the legislation provided by the New York Times', but such a depiction of the health care policy appears nowhere in the New York Times article. But there it is in the Rasmussen survey, where it appears to be designed to build a relationship in the respondent's mind between the Democratic plan and higher premiums."
Guess what--we can't see all the questions Rasmussen asked unless we have a premium membership to the Rasmussen site. And you've already identified an, ahh, interestingly-worded poll question from their own press release.
Silver continues:
"I also have some questions about Rasmussen's choice of subject matter. In particular, they have a knack for issuing polls at times which tend to dovetail with conservative media narratives. "
link to fivethirtyeight.com
I'm interested to see polls from other organizations--why aren't they coming out now, I wonder?
And I'll mention again, Rasmussen has a right-leaning house effect.
Here's Nate Silver on the subject.
"What Rasmussen has had is a "house effect". So far in the 2010 cycle, their polling has consistently and predictably shown better results for Republican candidates than other polling firms have. But such house effects can emerge from legitimate differences of opinion about how to model the electorate."
"But there are other respects in which I'm much less sympathetic to Rasmussen's case. In particular, this has to do with their choices of question wording and subject matter. The Politico question, for instance, points toward an August question in which Rasmussen asked It’s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money. That is not a question designed to elicit the most accurate reflection of public opinion."
"Likewise, Rasmussen recently produced a poll in which they purported to describe the Democratic health care plan to their respondents. Several other pollsters have found that support for the plan increases when it is actually described to respondents, but Rasmussen showed no such increase. However, the second sentence in their description reads:
The plans before Congress would prohibit people from choosing insurance plans with lower premiums and higher deductibles.
I don't particularly know where this comes from; Rasmussen claims that its questions came from a 'summary of the legislation provided by the New York Times', but such a depiction of the health care policy appears nowhere in the New York Times article. But there it is in the Rasmussen survey, where it appears to be designed to build a relationship in the respondent's mind between the Democratic plan and higher premiums."
Guess what--we can't see the questions Rasmussen asked unless we have a premium membership to the Rasmussen site.
"I also have some questions about Rasmussen's choice of subject matter. In particular, they have a knack for issuing polls at times which tend to dovetail with conservative media narratives. "
link to fivethirtyeight.com
Rasmussen? Pffft. Got anything else? They have quite a right-wing house effect.
Did anyone notice that The Lede didn't put any photos if the activists giving first aid to the commandos? Then when Ali pointed them to the photos. They added a link, but didn't add them to the slideshow?
The Sydney Morning Herald reported this two days ago, but I suppose they (and I) could be wrong.
"The 'Godfather of Rap' Gil Scott-Heron also scratched his name from Israel’s concert schedule, as has Snoop Dogg, Bono/U2 and guitarist Santana, "
The list of artists refusing to play Israel is getting longer week by week:
Carlos Santana
Gil Scott Heron
Snoop Dogg
Elvis Costello
Bono/U2
The Pixies
We'll have see what happens with these artists still scheduled to play this summer and fall: Madonna, Elton John, Paul McCartnry, Rod Stewart, Diana Krall.
Whether it's a curse or a blessing (or both), it's special. And thus hard to lose.
It is a big deal. Jews have always bet set apart, and have also set themselves apart, from societies they have joined, making Jewish identity a strong one. And the modern Jewish identity is wrapped in an ideology that is imploding as we speak (Zionism, especially liberal Zionism). That leaves Jews, I believe, quite adrift. It's scary. Take the "Jewish" out of "Jewish author," "Jewish activist," "Jewish comedian," "Jewish mother," and what do you have? Just regular old "author," "activist," comedian," "mother." Not so special. Like the rest of us.
Yes, they do all seem to be Jews, and yet they are so not funny. Strange times indeed.
I'm sorry to say I think you're getting too excited.
It doesn't matter what the passengers did after the Israeli navy made the choice to belligerently board a civilian ship on the high seas. The passengers could have dismembered each and every commando and Israel would still be the aggressor.
Exactly. The idea of diversity of Jewish opinion on this topic is absurd, as evidenced by the speed and ferocity with which errant Jews are tossed from the tribe.
I know.
Actually, they didn't make an omelet. They broke eggs and imported a knish.
A dream indeed. China votes along with the rest of the world (except for the US) to condemn Israel in UN resolution after resolution. They probably also don't want Israel rocking the energy boat in the middle east.