Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 963 (since 2014-07-20 17:27:01)

John O

Born in Britain of Irish parentage.

Showing comments 963 - 901
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  • In order to receive hurricane relief, Texas town requires residents to reject Israel boycott
  • Contest! Design a logo to celebrate the IDF's 70th birthday
  • Balfour at 100: A legacy of racism and propaganda
    • @JustJessetr

      "And [BDS] IS nothing if you want to look at the results so far."

      So no need for all that legislation in various US states making support for BDS illegal.

    • @JustJessetr

      In essence, what you are saying is the Palestinians must try harder. Classic blaming the victim.

      Many factors brought down apartheid in South Africa.

    • @JustJessetr

      "passing"

      Passing what? Passing where? Passing whom?

      Are you sure you're on the right thread? BDS is mentioned nowhere on this thread until you introduced it.

      Oh, and BDS was quite successful in bringing down apartheid South Africa.

  • The pedagogy of apartheid
  • In Ireland, a Palestinian is understood
    • Correct, Marnie. The Irish know the difference between coloniser and colonised.

    • @DaBakr

      "Irish naturally want to fight to keep the South Irish and retain or reclaim as much of the North as possible Zionist=IRA imho."

      As part of the peace process, the Republic held a referendum on 22 May 1998 to amend its constitution by removing the territorial claim on Northern Ireland. The vote was over 94% in favour of its removal.

    • @Jackdaw

      Are you and DaBakr in some sort of competition to decide which of you is the most ignorant about Ireland?

    • @DaBakr

      Anglo Saxons - try Norman French. You appear to be confusing that with the general settlement of what is now England by the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, were supposed to have pushed the Celtic tribes of Britain westwards to Wales and Cornwall. Modern scholarship has, in any event, cast doubt on this traditional narrative, suggesting that proto-English tribes may have been well established in the east of the country during the Roman empire period.

      Your ignorance of the history of a country you appear know little about is bad enough but then you write this: "But nobody said the Irish ever made sense. They are lovable, hardy, stubborn but not always realistic or perceptive."

      That is racist, pure and simple. I suspect your post made it through moderation on the basis that you were disgracing yourself and deserved to be exposed.

      Finally, here is one reason why Irish citizens (including me) identify more with the indigenous people of Palestine than with the "Jews of Judea": the Irish wanted self-determination and not to be ruled by another nation. Just like the Palestinians.

    • As my late Irish mother would say, "Jaysus! That's a fierce lot of bollocks for three small paragraphs."

  • On my sixth visit, I've never seen Gaza so devastated
    • @JeffB

      "property issues with the West Bankers"

      Your gift for comedic euphemism is truly remarkable.

    • @JeffB

      "The Gazans will not agree to respecting the border."

      You mean Israel has agreed where its border lies? Who knew?

  • From Greta Gerwig to NYU, Israel has deep reservoir of cultural support in U.S.
    • @JeffB

      '“… by 1940 the policy that a Jew in Palestine was under Haganah discipline was well established policy. When the refugees boarded that ship they accepted Haganah rule.”

      'Have you asked them?

      'Yes. There is no shortage of books and memoirs from that generation. That generation was the height of Israeli patriotism. They understood without a moment’s doubt what the alternative to Israel is.'

      I, of course, was talking about the refugees on board the SS Patria, not the entire generation of Jewish immigrants to Palestine. But, you knew that, didn't you? European Jews, desperate to escape from the Nazis, arrive in Haifa , only to find themselves treated as cannon fodder in the Zionists campaign to drive the British out of Palestine so that they could take over the land. And they willingly let themselves be sacrificed for that end. How likely is that?

    • @JeffB

      "Indiscriminate"

      In the narrowest dictionary definition of “indiscriminate” – lacking in judgement or purpose – you are correct: the Zionist terrorists had a goal and their actions were in pursuit of that goal. In the context of conflict, however, “indiscriminate” has a wider, pejorative, meaning – a failure to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants – as I am sure you must be aware.
      “[A]chieving major territorial objectives with a low loss of life”. Did the terrorists consider achieving their objectives with no loss of life? Did they consider the morality of having major territorial objectives in a land where many of them were recent immigrants?

      “The ship was being turned away and the refugees sent back.”

      Untrue. Its destination was Mauritius, in the Indian Ocean.

      “… since the refugees were blamed it increased British belief in Jewish fanaticism about Palestine.”

      And you’re OK that the end justifies the means?

      “By demonstrating British complicity in Hitler (what was evolving towards and would quickly become the extermination program) the Zionist put tremendous pressure on Britain.”

      In November 1940, Britain (and its empire) stood alone against Nazism and was suffering grievously for it: with the exception of the Battle of Britain and some naval actions in the Mediterranean, Britain was being regularly defeated. The Zionist pressure on Britain was not helpful to the defeat of Nazism, but, hey, I guess the end justifies the means.

      “Publicity stunts” – quite a novel redefinition of murder.

      “… by 1940 the policy that a Jew in Palestine was under Haganah discipline was well established policy. When the refugees boarded that ship they accepted Haganah rule.”

      Have you asked them?

    • @JeffB

      "What does a bombing in 1940 protesting British immigration policy have to do with 1947-8? And that the Haganah had done it was not known until 1957. This point doesn’t make sense."

      My point was that your claim that before 1947-8 there was only "sporadic terrorism" is wrong. Zionist conducted a campaign of constant, serious and indiscriminate terrorism for almost as long as they had been immigrating into Palestine. That they would target a ship carrying Jews to safety from Hitler's Europe almost beggars belief. Yet, Haganah did it; the fact that this was not confirmed until the perpetrator admitted it in 1957 is irrelevant.

    • JeffB:

      "The claim was they were forced out by Israelis. The truth is that first 350k left prior to the war starting and/or when there was just sporadic terrorism. A war incidentally the Palestinians thought they would win. People leaving a territory to avoid a war were not forced out by one side. So no, it doesn’t count."

      Someone forced the first 350k to leave. If you read Tom Suarez's book, you will see that what you describe as "sporadic terrorism" was a years long campaign of almost daily bombings, shootings, arson and intimidation - including against Jewish Palestinians who refused to co-operate with the Zionists (and never forget, the highest death toll of any of these acts of terrorism was when the SS Patria was bombed at Haifa in 1940, killing 267 Jewish refugees from Europe).

      Let us assume that the total number of Palestinians who left their homes in that period was 750k. What of the 400k who didn't leave before the war?

      As for your argument that people leaving a territory before a war were not forced out by one side, would you not agree that they were forced to flee by those who were threatening that territory, whether or not the bullets and bombs had started to fly?

    • @JeffB

      "The first 350k Palestinians were not forcibly expelled. They simply fled a war that everyone knew was going to happen."

      Clearly, in your view, the *threat* of deadly force doesn't count. If the Palestinians wanted to have a cast-iron case against Israel, they should have waited until the bullets and bombs flew. Perhaps they just loved their children too much to have them massacred by the various terrorist gangs that formed what is now euphemistically known as the IDF.

    • @JeffB

      "@RoHa Sure I can do a list of lies"

      You can do a list, but can you supply examples of these "lies", as you style them?

  • Leading journalists call 2nd Amendment an anachronism -- but spare Zionism
    • Bully for you, DaBakr.

      Are you going to do something to take military-grade weapons out of the hands of the civilians who have them? That would be get my praise and endorsement, no matter how much I disagree with you on other matters.

    • @JeffB

      "What Phil is talking about is an American lobby. I know USA lobbies much better than UK lobbies."

      So, why did you introduce the subject of UK lobbies if (a) it was irrelevant to Phil's argument; (b) you don't know what you're talking about?

    • @JeffB

      You've already given us the benefit of your keen mind on the relationship between British Jews and the three main British political parties (4 October: "Anti-Zionism pushed most Jews from Labor to Conservative so 3/4 are Tory. The remaining 1/4 float between Labor and Liberal-Democrat. In the Labor party there remain solid members of the Jewish establishment who are trusted by Jews.")

      Would you care to explain to us quite what this has to do with the topic of the current post?

      When you brought this up on 4 October, you said in your concluding paragraph: "... no one is willing to have the honest conversation about lobbies and ethnic community representation. Don’t know British culture well enough to know how you have the conversation politely."

      If you don't know British culture well enough on that issue, chances are you don't know British culture well enough to talk about it at all, and are ill-advised to keep bringing it up.

      To put it as simply as I can, what Phil is talking about in this post is essentially "omertà". You can quote all the percentages you want about who supports what, but you are not addressing the question - why the silence? You are yourself silent on the subject. Why does opposing the gun lobby/Zionist lobby result in political death sentences, loss of academic tenure, the ending of distinguished journalistic careers (e.g. Helen Thomas)?

  • Occupation, in the details
  • How Kurdish independence underpins Israel’s plan to reshape the Middle East
    • " These Arab states are artificial. For instance, there’s one with a totally made up Hashemite ruler, that is really a Palestinian state. Iraq isn’t a real country."

      You're so right - they are every bit as artificial as , um, Israel ...?

  • Do not turn the Balfour Declaration into a holy Jewish text
    • @JeffB

      "It was 2000 they killed."

      Absolutely. Those Argentinians scarcely mowed the grass.

    • @JeffB

      "The Arabs and later the Palestinians and even later the Jews opposed it, so it Britain [sic] wasn’t able to pull it off."

      Of course. The Arabs caused trouble first, then the Palestinians (is there a difference?) and finally, the Jews. Basically, the old Zionist crap about "you forced us to commit atrocities. We didn't want to but we had to, because you hate us more than you love your own children ...blah blah."

    • @jon s

      You assume that the Balfour declaration was sprung on the world on 2 November 1917, without any preliminary discussions, arm-twisting, toe-in-the-watering, money-promising, or any of the other things that are done before a government adopts a policy.

    • @JeffB

      Yes, an honest discussion of the Balfour Declaration would be useful. Let's start with this bit: "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

  • A Jewish atonement for Zionism
    • @JeffB

      "The Roman empire became the civilizations to the west of India. That’s who the Zionist did address their complaint to."

      The Zionists addressed their complaint to the nations that were situated in the geographical area of an empire that had vanished 1,500 years previously, as though these nations were somehow responsible for what had happened 1,800 years previously?

      I can play that game, too. I demand a full pardon for Boudicca and her tribe, the Iceni. I further demand that the city of London (which she and her army sacked in 61 CE) be turned over to the Iceni's descendants, some of whom still live in Norfolk, a few probably in Wales and lots in the USA. I won't demand a return of the Druidic religion, though. I don't want to end up in a crouching position under the altar at Stonehenge.

    • @mcohen

      If you are still dissatisfied with the result of the Judean revolt of 132–136 CE, please address your complaint to the current Roman Emperor, not to us.

    • @mcohen

      "Von Ryan's Express" as a history lesson. I was already bewildered by JeffB's posts about the myth of the Roman people being descended from the Trojans. Now, I seem to be being sucked into some gateway to a parallel universe. Maybe I should just try believing six impossible things before breakfast.

    • @mcohen

      "zionism is a direct response to the rise of nationalism in europe ..."

      Zionism is part of the rise of nationalism in Europe.

      PS - If you used correct English punctuation and capitalisation, whatever you are trying to say might just be a lot clearer for your readers (you are presumably trying to communicate with us).

  • A plea to Israel: Don't start the third Lebanon War
    • @JeffB

      And which war would that be?

      "... if one considers armies operating freely on the territory with the government’s permission to be part of that country’s military ..."

      You're having to do a lot of work to pin whatever you're talking about on the Lebanese government.

  • Balfour Declaration, now 100, was 'gun pointed at heads' of Palestinians -- Khalidi
    • @JeffB

      You do know what a myth is, don't you?

    • @JeffB

      "Losing the Trojan war led the Trojans to found Rome (at least mythically). That doesn’t mean the Romans wanted Troy to be sacked."

      If the Trojans founded Rome, there must logically have been no Romans around to want Troy to be sacked.

  • How Israel is silently transferring Palestinians from East Jerusalem
  • Why the split inside the Democratic Party over BDS needs to happen
  • Jews have religious commandment to support Israel and fight BDS -- American Jewish Committee
    • @Boris

      "I believe Ireland has the right of return."

      Wrong.

      If you have an Irish grandparent, you can get an Irish passport, provided you can prove the fact with the necessary certificates.

      Ireland is a member of the European Union, so EU citizens are free to work and live in Ireland, and many have already done so.

      Neither constitutes a "right of return" along the lines of the "right of return" of all Jews to immigrate to Israel.

    • @JeffB

      I was afraid the "maps and diagrams" would go over your head. I lifted it from a classic of English humour, "1066 and All That", which - appositely - is all about getting your history lessons all wrong and muddled.

    • Ethnic cleansing is a moral obligation. Discuss, and illustrate with maps and diagrams.

  • How Netanyahu's son became the poster boy for white supremacists
    • Thanks, Ossinev. Made me chuckle; and nails the absurdity of JeffB's analogy.

      Of course, Trump's mother was Scottish; so, I suspect, any day now he will endorse the SNP's desire for Scottish independence in exchange for a couple of golf courses.

  • New York TV stations smear Roger Waters-- who praises BDS as 'one of most admirable pieces of resistance world has seen'
    • @JeffB

      "I’m saying that if Hitler had been presented with a viable means of solving the Jewish question via deportation there wouldn’t have been a Holocaust at all."

      Deportation was at the very heart of the Holocaust. It was all too viable.

    • So his live performances fill stadiums around the world solely because of "Israel bashing"?

  • Israeli rightist Smotrich lays out the vision for apartheid
    • @JeffB

      "Jews in the UK [...] have individual rights they don’t have national rights."

      What on earth are you talking about? All British subjects/citizens have exactly the same rights, whatever their religion, gender or ethnicity. It has doubtless also escaped your notice that British subjects/citizens have equal rights with the nationals of the other 27 states of the European Union. Many of us are pretty pissed off right now that the British government, having decided to treat the result of the advisory referendum on membership of the EU as it it were Holy Writ, are trying to take away some of those rights.

  • Deja vu: Israeli Labor pol urges U.S. to take on 'axis of evil'
    • Sez Margalit: "If we’re not going to move, then Iran is not only going to become a threshhold nuclear state, which it is."

      So Iran is yet to become something it already is. Sounds like they've got Schrödinger's Bomb.

  • Ayelet Shaked and the fascist ideology
    • @JeffB
      "OK UK examples then. You still have a state church with the powers of a state church."

      And what powers might those be?

  • 'Voice of boycott' was heard in Montgomery and South Africa, why not Israel? Roger Waters writes in 'NYT'
    • I listen to Archbishop emeritus of Cape Town, Desmond Tutu - one of those all too rare people who give religion a good name. He said what Israel does to the Palestinians is worse than apartheid. That's good enough for me.

  • Democratic candidate for Illinois gov'r fires his running mate over BDS
    • @JustJessetr

      No pain, no gain, as they say.

    • @JustJessetr

      "Apartheid South Africa wasn’t brought down by boycotts. They came at the very end."

      No so. Sporting boycotts began in the 1960s. When I was at uni in the early 70s, students boycotted Barclays Bank because of its investments in SA. It was a long process, but ultimately played a big part in finishing the apartheid regime.

    • If BDS is so ineffective, why waste time opposing it? Just ignore it and it will wither away. Except that it won't. Because it is effective, and, in time, Israel will go the way of South Africa.

  • 'Nazi stuff': The Israeli government takes on African refugees
  • US Ambassador blames Obama for 'absolute betrayal' of Israel, and Palestinians for killing the peace process
    • The 2% figure reminds me of the arguments we have here in the UK about new houses (we are desperately short of adequate housing) "concreting over" the countryside. It's a scare tactic because housing/villages/towns/cities take up a remarkably small percentage of the total land area of the British Isles. Yes, you've guessed it - about 2 per cent.

      So, the 2% figure for settlements may be technically correct, if you define it narrowly as houses and gardens. The question is: who owns/controls the other 98% - the roads, the watercourses, the agricultural land, the natural resources, etc.

    • 'The Post asks about the relationship between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Trump.

      “Phenomenal. I think they have a lot in common.”'

      Well, he's not wrong on that one.

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