Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 343 (since 2012-11-01 02:31:21)

Showing comments 343 - 301
Page:

  • 'Please remember the Montgomery bus boycott'-- letter to Westchester County board before BDS vote tonight
    • And actually the news broke 10 days ago. So you'd think that a fervent European BDS activist would have been able to supply a meaningful quote from North Holland adminstrators by now. But no such luck. I remain unconvinced. Just because I went out with my umbrella doesn't mean I can claim on the internet that I made it rain.

      https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1948187702088754&id=1535858456655016

    • Hmm. No quotes in that article from those who rejected the bid. Not sure I would just take BDS central's word for it. So the failed bid came after BDS activists waged a campaign. One doesnt prove the other.

    • And how does this and other successful boycotts of Israeli business earn the Palestinians one parcel of land, one human right, or one coin in their pocket?

      It doesn't, it never had and never will. BDS is not about Palestinian rights. It's strictly anti Israel, which is not the same thing.

    • @annie

      "lol! how generous of you! like wall street is as least as much to blame for real estate crash in 2008 as as the scores of minorities who lost their homes through crooked loans. j u s t s t o p"

      LOL. It's just as generous for you to sacrifice Palestinians to a tactic (BDS) that has produced no results except false hope for a Palestine from the river to the sea and a 1SS.

      If the foundation of boycotts rests on Palestinian Civil Society, then at least admit what PCS actually is: 170 one-person NGO's who are funded by Europe. Mostly the Dutch. PSC is not synonymous with the average Palestinian on the street. PSC are highly paid and living in some of the most expensive real estate in the world: Ramallah. Paid mouthpieces for others who would fight to the last Palestinian and not get in harm's way themselves, much like yourself and Phil Weiss.

      And the 1SS solution is a long way from drawing support in the WB or Gaza, or even from any Palestinian political faction.

      MW is invested in the status quo, even more than Israel. It allows you to feel smug and self-righteous. At least Israel can claim that land is the issue. What's your excuse? Human rights? I've never seen such a load of poisonous crap in my life when your poster-children suffer more and more each day in the vain hope that you and your fellows will come to the rescue.

      50 years is enough to state that boycotts simply do not work in this case, because they never have.

    • That's wonderful. Blame and boycotts. Keep up your losing strategy. You have nothing to lose except Palestine.

    • Aaaaaaaaand...no one can point out any such victories, large or small. All you can offer Palestinian's is 50 years of the same rhetoric. So glad you are willing to fight to the last man, as long as that man is not you.

      Normalization: you know exactly what it means, because you rally against it. A peace deal for what's left of the land, economic ties, an end to hostilities.

      And yes, Israeli resistance to peace is as much to blame as the Palestinian leadership. And the Arab/Muslim leadership across the globe in general. But Palestinians will never gain any kind of power until they gain economic power. Palestinian goods are available to sell in Europe and the US, and therefore they can be sold in Israel with an equal exchange of Israeli goods. While politics will attempt to warp all this, it's really the only course to peace. It's time to drop the dream of a 1SS and the hope that if Palestinians can wait it out long enough Israel will collapse under it's own weight, or the US arms industry will stop it's lobbying of Congress, or something equally ludicrous.

    • That particular slice of rhetoric has been wrong for the past 50 years.

      Arguably, the life of Palestinians has grown worse by the day. Please point to one right won, one piece of land gained, or one dollar in a Palestinian's pocket that is a result of boycotting Israel.

      Normalization and the 2SS is the way to go. It's the only thing that will save the land and the dignity of the Palestinians, what little they have managed to hold onto under occupation.

    • Oops.

  • Mother Palestine takes on her most diabolical enemy yet -- Apartheid!
    • I applaud the creative approach.

      However, I'm sure that many more people refused to see "Last Temptation of Christ" for it's secular interpretations of Jesus, and Mel Gibson's "Passion of Christ" for it's blatant anti-Semitism. Neither movie was hurt at the box office.

  • Israel provoked the Six-Day War in 1967, and it was not fighting for survival
    • "Nasser’s closing of the Straits of Tiran has been similarly distorted in the Mainstream Narrative. Finkelstein explains that Nasser may actually have had the legal right to close the Straits, that he probably did not intend to maintain the closure, and that he offered to take the dispute to the International Court of Justice, but Israel refused. And Israel would not have choked overnight, but got 95 percent of its imports through its other ports and had a several months’ reserve supply of oil."

      "May have had" does not mean he DID have the right.

      "But got 95% of..." Then NF is not a general, nor is he a citizen of a country that has ever been threataned with invasion. No one, absolutely no one would remain still when 5% of their income is held hostage. Not even 1%. And yes, that includes Palestinians.

      If the mainstream narrative doesn't convince you that Israel would have been invaded, then just go with the most convincing sources I've ever found: the Arab narrative.

      The Arab forces intent to invade Israel.
      The October War, Memoirs of Field Marshall el-Gamasy of Egypt. El-Gamasy, Mohamed Abdel Ghani.
      "The crisis had been precipitated by intelligence from Syria, and the USSR, on Israeli troop concentration on Syria's border. This intel was not accurate, but despite the personal disclaimer by...Fawzi, Egyptian troops were rushed into Sinai for the stated purpose of helping Syria in the event of an Israeli attack."
      “One might ask if the political leadership was fully aware of the situation when it asked for a pullout of UN forces and closed the Straits, since both actions clearly and inevitably led to war…And if those facts were known, was it right or acceptable for the armed forces to be pushed into a war for which they were unprepared?”
      "With great bitterness, I must admit that Egypt was not at the time ready for war...I see no reason to play down the factors which led to the defeat."
      "It appears that Field Marshall 'Amer ignored the report [from Fawzi] and did not take it's recommendations [against closure of the Straits] into account when, in May 1967, he agreed to the closure of the Straits of Tiran, which led to war."
      "With great bitterness, I must admit that Egypt was not at the time ready for war. Several senior commanding officers had been seriously concerned about the poor state of the army which by 1967 had become a victim of the difficult conditions and circumstances in which it had to operate. If I admit this quite frankly, it is because I see no reason to play down the factors which led to the defeat."

      On the Arab governments openly planning and calling for war, and that Israel was surrounded by armies...

      Arab World: Political and Diplomatic History. Menachem Monsoor, May.
      Radio Damascus: “The war of liberation will not end except by Israel’s abolition.”
      Nasser, addressing trade unionists: “If war comes it will be total and the objective will be Israel’s destruction…” (May 24-26, 1967)

      BBC, Daily Report, Middle East, Africa, and Western Europe
      Shuqayri, PLO chairman pledging loyalty to Hussein: “We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and for the survivors—if there are any—the boats are ready to deport them!”
      Hussein: “All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait…There is no difference between one Arab people and another.”
      President ‘Aref of Iraq: “Our goal is clear—to wipe Israel off the face of the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa.”

      Six Days of War. Michael B. Oren
      ‘Amer, talking with Shuqayri: “…soon we will be able to take the initiative and rid ourselves of Israel once and for all.”

  • Through 'severe pressure,' U.S. can impose a two-state solution on Israel -- Nathan Thrall
    • Talknic, whatever the ZF have been doing all that time, they haven't been dangling a false hope in front of Jews and Israelis. What one-staters and BDS sheep like yourself do is give Palestinians false hope, from your nice safe perch above it all, that they can have everything from the river to the sea. It's simply not going to happen. Normalization is the only way for them to salvage what little is left. They've gone with Arafat, they've gone with the PA, boycotting, the Pan-Arabists, and they have gained exactly nothing of what should have been theirs long ago.

      You damage Palestinians more than you imagine. You are a problem, not a solution. It's time to get real and ditch your ever so predictable rhetoric and start to contribute something useful.

    • Hey, then keep marching fown a blind alley towards a 1SS. Even though the idea is a, "...long way from drawing majority support in the West Bank and Gaza.”

      You hurt Palestinians more than you imagine.

    • I'm glad Thrall says that a two-state solution is the way. He is rising above the illusion of a one-state solution, for which there is no diplomatic initiative anywhere in the world. No Palestinian faction has supported a 1SS*. Not even the Islamic Republic of Iran supports a 1SS. It's time for campuses and journalists and bloggers to get real.

      *Thrall himself: "Advocacy among some Palestinian intellectuals and their allies for enfranchisement in a single state, the so-called one-state solution, has not been endorsed by a single Palestinian faction and is a long way from drawing majority support in the West Bank and Gaza."
      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/opinion/sunday/the-past-50-years-of-israeli-occupation-and-the-next.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

  • Trump may want a deal, but Israeli Jews are not interested
    • "Secular Israelis arent producing enough kids to offset the growth in the Haredi and settler populations. This is why there are so few normal people in the Israeli government."

      That is a very bigoted thing to say if you think about it, implying that Haredi aren't normal.

    • Phillip,

      You support Israel's economy by visiting Jerusalem, you support settlements by visiting West Bank settlements, you support West Bank businesses by going to Zionist meetings here in the US and drinking imported West Bank wine.

      When exactly is your boycott of Israel supposed to begin?

  • Memo to Trump: US won't escape Mideast wars till Israel ends oppression of Palestinians
    • Echinnocorus,

      Gloating and facts are two different things.

      All I stated were the facts.

    • Respectfully, I'm not sure you're aware of the facts. Turkey, Jordan, and Egypt do brisk trade with Israel. And it's an open secret that most Middle Eastern nations have business ties to Israel. Even the Ayotollah Khomeni kept up oil trade with Israel for a few years.

      As for Europe, there is ample evidence that their labelling system "Made in the West Bank" hasn't impacted Israel's economy overall, though there is certainly evidence of a few West Bank businesses that have been hurt by the system.

      Foreign investment in Israel keeps rising, with expected setbacks like any other country.

      The Leviathan natural-gas fields has a great many nations waiting in line to make a deal, though the process has been stymied by all sorts of roadblocks which are unrelated to boycotts.

      Israel's medical, water, and tech industries are doing quite well. And it looks set to get into cannabanoid derivatives as well.

      Normalization between Israel and Palestine is the only economic path that will help Palestinians gain any kind of power. Boycotts of Israel since '48 have only increased their plight, not alleviated it.

    • ooops.

    • "“The Arabs don’t want us here, so there will be one war after another till they accept us,” a Jewish friend in Jerusalem once explained to me. When did that vision ever work for anyone?"

      It certainly hasn't worked for the Arab/Muslim countries who refuse to make peace with Israel.

  • New charter, old politics
    • @ Annie: "i have not been made aware this site has an “only supports a one-state solution” policy. i think you’re mistaken jj."

      Please provide a link to where you (the editors) explicitly support a two-state solution. I don't have to be right, but I've ALWAYS seen the 1SS being championed on MW.

      I'd also like to see, because I predict you'll claim you never championed Hamas either, a link to an article where you (the editors) reject them.

    • LOL!!

    • @ Eljay and Echinosorus,

      Nothing would give me greater pleasure than if you both killed each other fighting over Hamas. Please continue.

    • You better hope Hamas doesn't cross your path then.

    • Does Hamas' new 2-state position mean that MW drops their support for Hamas?

    • Does this mean MW will no longer support Hamas? MW only supports a one-state solution.

  • Trump's new war has neocons, Clintonites, and Israelis applauding, but left and realists dismayed
  • No room for Zionism in any movement for justice
    • Another case of BDS as Jew bashing.

      That only certain types of Jews are considered, by a non-Jew no less, to be OK in a movement for social justice is just as hateful as saying no Jews at all. Ms. Elia, you don't get to say that any Jews are welcome or unwelcome, just like I wouldn't get to say only certain types of Muslims are welcome or unwelcome. May Allah forgive you for your despicable hatred.

  • The 50th anniversary of the occupation will rock the Jewish establishment
    • Ossinev said: "Ah yes now I get it silly me now I understand so it was just like Gemany`s invasion of Poland in 1939..."

      Webmasters: To say that Hitler didn't fire the first shot, or was somehow drawn into invading Poland is Nazi apologia and the commenter should be banned from MW.

  • Fordham retaliates against student for protesting SJP ban
    • Then pro-Israel groups (if they existed) should also be fully supported by the Fordham administration as any SJP group, and be as unfettered to speak their mind as the SJP, and free to receive unlimited financial backing from outside sources just like the SJP.

      Personally, I think Fordham has found a terrific moral and legal angle from which to view anti free-speech, [..] like the SJP.

    • http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/360305/fordham-bans-students-from-joining-pro-palestinian-campus-group/

      Fordham tossed out the SJP because:

      "Fordham has no registered student clubs the sole focus of which is the political agenda of one nation, against another nation,” the statement read. “The narrowness of Students for Justice in Palestine’s political focus makes it more akin to a lobbying group than a student club. Regardless of the club’s status, students, faculty, and staff are of course free to voice their opinions on Palestine, or any other issue. There is also no pro-Israel student group at Fordham. There is a Jewish students’ club, but its description does not mention Israel."

      Thank you, Fordham! I hope other universities take note and follow your lead.

  • The legislation that will be used to intimidate and imprison members of the Muslim community has been introduced
    • I don't know about assasinated, but being banned is a great start!!

      http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/360305/fordham-bans-students-from-joining-pro-palestinian-campus-group/

      Fordham is tossing out the SJP: "Fordham has no registered student clubs the sole focus of which is the political agenda of one nation, against another nation,” the statement read. “The narrowness of Students for Justice in Palestine’s political focus makes it more akin to a lobbying group than a student club. Regardless of the club’s status, students, faculty, and staff are of course free to voice their opinions on Palestine, or any other issue. There is also no pro-Israel student group at Fordham. There is a Jewish students’ club, but its description does not mention Israel."

      Thank you, Fordham!

      And the MB most certainly is a terrorist organization. Arch-fundamentalists who want another repressive Islamist government that will attempt to smother women’s rights, gay rights, Christian and Jewish safety, and drag Egypt into a pointless war with Israel. Even MW agrees, or at least the smarter posters like Walid do.

      http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/revolution-huntingtons-civilizations/#comment-575061

      I certainly hope that the vast majority of Muslims in this country (who also make up 25% of the African American community) who are law-abiding aren't going to be targeted. They need to hold massive demonstrations making their peaceful intentions clear.

  • Santa Cruz church becomes first US congregation to boycott HP for role in Israeli occupation
    • @Annie,

      Well, it's a good thing we've got a written record of what I said rather than what you heard. I did answer your question, directly and explicitly. That you chose to indulge your feelings rather than your brain just means you need a better therapist.

      Annie: "what do you think of all these people who treat the boycott movement as if was a major threat? all the time and effort in making anti boycott laws in so many states? billionaires like adelson hosting conferences on how to stop it? efforts to shut down and silence palestinian activism on campuses? are they all just crazy and wasting their time? if the boycott was so ineffective, why not just ignore it?"

      JustJessetr: "it reminds me of Y2K. In the end, it was a non-event. But in the run-up to it, and I was very much a part of the run-up, the preparation and the blame and the doom-saying was feverish. The Israeli gov’t and it’s allies are preparing feverishly, because to do nothing and hope it all fixes itself is unwise. That’s all. One doesn’t sit quietly while one’s enemies spread lies, especially in the days of the internet. I don’t favor Likud, and I don’t like how they oppress Palestinians, but let’s not pretend they’re unintelligent."

      Again, @ Annie: "with over 60% of dems favoring sanctioning israel and the largest US demographic supporting israel is old people vs the young not supporting israel. i figure we just need to keep doing what we’ve been doing and watch the chips eventually fall where they may."

      Ah, yes. Those highly insightful polls. The ones that predict Clinton will win the vote against Trump. What if the polls are wrong and Trump is elected?

      And I wouldn't rely too heavily on "young people" coming to the rescue either. These are the same demographics that were supposed to sweep Anderson, and Mondale, and Ferraro, and Nader, and Gore, and Dean into the White House. The same demographics that grew up during the Vietnam War and were supposed to end US imperialism through protest and socialism and not paying their taxes. I count myself among the lot who are sad that none of that ever came to pass, but admitted to myself that most young people scream a lot but then fail to show up on election day. Or are too busy dicking around with Israeli-made technology to realize that they are working in direct contradiction to their own purported political beliefs.

    • Well, since everyone is shifting around in their seats uncomfortably, trying to give something more than a weak response to my post, I'll point out what you don't want to admit in public.

      MW and the BDS movement was thrilled to hear that Israeli commandos killed Turkish activists in the Gaza flotilla. They clucked and crowed, and that this would be (yet again) the nail in Israel's coffin. That, dear Annie, is the link you are so desperately trying not to see between this article and my post.

      The Arab Muslim world will shriek and howl, but it's been an open secret that they engage in business deals with Israel regardless. No one twists their arm, they simply give lip service to the Palestinian cause. This detente between Israel and Turkey is the beginning of a deal to exploit the Leviathan field for natural gas. Other countries in the Middle East will step into the line for their own deals. And no amount of tut-tutting from MW or a church or anyone else will knock Israel's economy off the rails from this point onward, except the stupidity of the Likudniks, and I don't doubt it for a minute that they could shoot themselves in the foot.

      And your question, dear Annie, is just another duck and dodge regarding my post. But since you ask: it reminds me of Y2K. In the end, it was a non-event. But in the run-up to it, and I was very much a part of the run-up, the preparation and the blame and the doom-saying was feverish. The Israeli gov't and it's allies are preparing feverishly, because to do nothing and hope it all fixes itself is unwise. That's all. One doesn't sit quietly while one's enemies spread lies, especially in the days of the internet. I don't favor Likud, and I don't like how they oppress Palestinians, but let's not pretend they're unintelligent.

      I really don't have a dog in the Zionist or anti-Zionist fight. Israel will stand or fall on the strength of it's own diplomacy and economic strategy, just like any other country. But I do view boycotting Israel, at heart, as Jew-bashing. So I stand against it. And as someone who had Palestinian friends if only briefly during my two years living there, and has helped put money in Palestinians pockets (which even if it were one penny, is 100% more than any of you have ever helped) I find your guise of being pro-Palestinian to be ludicrous at best and harmful to Palestinians at worst. Their situation grows worse by the day, and you think that awful pictures of suffering will change things for the better. They haven't so far, what makes anyone think more of the same is the solution? Feel free to pick apart my logic while completely missing the point as you always do, but my question is the one you can't seem to answer for yourself. Why do you respond to a call by BDS that lets you engage in activity that you know only hurts Palestinians at large and only enables their addiction to victimhood?

    • Has it occured to MW that awareness of Palestinian suffering has been around since '47, and that not a single thing has been accomplished through boycotts? Not one penny in a Palestinian's pocket, not one right earned, not one dunam of land returned. Arguably, Palestinian suffering increases by the day, and all you do is encourage symbolic, useless boycotts that have been ignored by the people who should care the most: fellow Muslims and Arabs.

      http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-prosecutor-flotilla-case-against-israel-ended.aspx?pageID=238&nID=106814&NewsCatID=341

      And back here in the West, it really doesn't make sense to argue against Israel and global capitalism from behind computers that support them both.

  • 'Make this my dream as well' -- in historic appearance, Palestinian offers one-state vision to a NY temple
    • @mooser

      I have no idea what idea it is you are trying to get across. But thanks for the shout out.

    • @ Echinoccoccus

      Your response is pure gobbledygook and avoids the point I made.

    • @Annie.

      And why would you believe that report that you quoted? Because she is a pro-BDS supporter and that's that? You have no evidence to back up what she dropped in your lap. You, as you've said in the past, are not a member there and have no idea how things actually work or even what happened. How your source (Naomi Brussels) reported the events is simply not what happened, or at least leaves out the much more important parts. Naomi Brussel is a verifiable liar, and you choose believe lies.

      And no vote was dodged. The Agenda Committee schedules these things when they decide. Nothing underhanded.

      And the vote was legal and done out in the open.

      Once again, you choose to believe lies. You swallow them. Your metabolize them. They become part of you. It's so easy to see.

    • Hmmm.

      "That’s not democracy. The tyranny of 51 percent simply does not work. "

      So when he says it, it's ok with Mondoweiss. When I say almost the exact same thing at the Park Slope Food Coop it's unacceptable to Mondoweiss.

      Not that I cared one way or another about what MW said because I just moved ahead and got a 75% Supermajority passed. It's just interesting to note the double standard.

      Democracy wins again!

  • 'Tis the season, to boycott!
    • Annie wrote: "and alternative might be, since israeli jews has been controlling all of palestine/israel for decades, they could reverse that and put palestinians in charge. generously grant israelis the same rights they’ve afforded palestinians for the last half century, for the next 1/2 century. i bet israel could figure out an alternative they could live with pretty fast if that happened. equal rights might sound very doable under those circumstances."

      So your secret hope is for revenge. Amusing, but not surprising.

    • Theo said: "Just ask, what did Palestine profit from the worldwide BDS movement? De nada, nothing."

      Funny. No backtalk from Annie and company. But when I say it, oh my God!

  • Miserable night, bleak forecast
  • Daniel Berrigan's 1973 prophecy: Israel is becoming 'the tomb of the Jewish soul'
    • Yeah, it's interesting how the Left loves to conflate Judaism with Israel. But they blame the right-wingers for doing so. Like MW cares one whit for the Jewish soul. Or for the Palestinian one for that matter.

  • A new milestone: BDS at the Olympics
    • @Zaid

      Which is different from the tide of business deals made since 1948 between Israel and those countries who are supposed to be boycotting it.

      Arab and Muslim societies speak out of both sides of their mouth, just like anyone.

      Boycotting Israel is, and has been, useless at hurting Israel's economy. And most importantly, hasn't won a single right, morsel of food, or patch of land for a single Palestinian.

      Keep up that losing strategy!

    • Page: 3
    • Universally disparaged except for Turkey who just reestablished diplomatic relations.

    • You're right! It makes absolutely no difference the Egyptian Judoka lost fair and square and backed away in fear, or spite, of his overpowering opponent. Now it doesn't look at all like he's an unsportsmanlike, childish, little twerp. And since the Saudis and Lebanese won zero medals, their backing away from Israelies is also a sign of athletic and moral superiority.

      Thanks for helping me change my opinion.

    • And every coward has his reasons.

    • I think it shows extreme cowardice on the part of the Lebanese, the Egyptians and the Saudis. They're obviously afraid of the Israelis sports ability, or to take a stand against their own repressive govt's by manning up.

      Pathetic.

  • Jill Stein defends BDS in CNN town hall
    • Sorry to break up the love fest, but Turkey just reestablished diplomatic relations with Israel.

      Boycotting Israel: a strategy that doesn't help a single Palestinian, and one where those who should care the most (fellow Arabs and Muslims) mostly ignore it.

      Keep up your losing strategy!

  • Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order
    • @ Annie

      Ummm...no. what you actually said was,

      "...so it’s not my position or business to question the sincerity or integrity of that call."

      That's a little bot-like for someone who thinks of themselves as an independent thinker. But whatever. I wont put words in your mouth if you don't compare me to someone who beats his wife. Jesus Christ, i hope you don't use that tactic on your children when they discover the flaws in your thinking.

      In the meantime, Cuomo has signed his order. Your personal opinon of me is completely beside the point.

    • @ annie,

      You see no evidence of results since 1948, yet you keep on keepin' on because you don't want to question the tactic. I dunno, annie. I like to go with what works.

      And you may not see any trend at your level, but that's because i engage people one on one. I don't have much patience for websites or activism on the web. The group of 20 I took to Albany were those whose minds I changed. And they described their political evolution to the governor in a meeting that was supposed to last 5 minutes, that turned into 15, that turned into 30. Honestly, i did very little talking.

      I used to be pro boycott of Israel back in college. Before BDS even existed. I swallowed all the so-called facts. Then a few years later i was listening to Bernard White and his crew on WBAI castigate some poor guy who was talking about how Zionists cleared the swamps in Palestine to make room for crops.

      "You tell me how swamps exist in the middle of a desert." he said. Something like that. His whole crew were screaming with laughter.

      I laughed too. Then coincidentally, I was in the map room at the public library that week, and got curious. I found maps that the British made of the area. Many many maps. All dated before 1948. Guess what I saw? Lots of swampland.

      That was the beginning of my real education. The Left is as prone to just making up stuff as they go along as anyone else. They see what they want to see. From swampland to the Park Slope Food Coop, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And if disagreeing with tou makes me a (fill in the blank) then that's your problem. Not mine.

      When I present people with the facts, it tends to sway them. Not here, but face to face, and one on one.

    • @ Annie
      "this doesn’t appear to be the trend. on the contrary, bds is growing precisely because people see it as an effective viable non violent social justice movement."

      Yes, this is the same duck and dodge people give me at first. When I press them to answer the question of exactly how BDS helps Palestinians, they keep changing the subject. Until finally, they realize they have not been able to answer my question. They can't name any rights that have won, they cant provide an instance of how suffering has been alleviated. Then I tell them how boycotting Sodastream has cost Palestinians their jobs, and in my experience, that's the precise moment they realize that the bash-Israel cheerleading isn't helping a single Palestinian. And that's the kind of people i took as a group to meet Cuomo. Looks like my drop in the bucket was worth it.

      And the whole, "That's what they said in SA.", argument doesn't carry water, bc boycotting wasn't central to dismantling racist policies.

      Thank you, Governor Cuomo. Working against hatred is Progressive politics.

    • Talkback, it's not a psuedo argument if it's true.

      Arguably, the plight of Palestinians has grown worse since 48. No amount of boycotting since 48 has changed that.

      It's nice that you're picking up this alledgedly pan-Palestinian call to boycott Israel, but how has it secured a meal, or a school, much less justice, for a single Palestinian?

      It hasnt. And once i point that out, people who are leaning proBDS realize that their desire to help is being siphoned away to flay Israel which is not the same as helping Palestinians. There are more Palestinians activists for government reform than there are for boycotting Israel, but they get no press because they get shot for their efforts. One-man NGOs operating out of Ramallah and funded by the EU are not such a threat to Abbas or Hamas.

      Thank you, Cuomo. Your stances against fracking and now BDS shows courage. I'm glad my visit to you helped tip the scales towards signing this executive order.

    • Funny, I have just the opposite experience. Once people see that BDS has absolutely nothing to do with helping Palestinians, that boycotting Israel hasn't helped a single Palestinian since 1948, then they begin to see you all in a different light. It's pretty easy come to think of it.

  • Israel commandeers UN for anti-BDS pep rally
  • New Jersey anti-BDS bill is an affront to the first amendment and basic human rights
    • LOL. You just avoided my question yourself.

      Do other states have the right to exist as a Muslim state? Yes or no?

    • "What is the meaning of the right to exist “as a Jewish state”? Do other states have the right to exist “as a Christian state” or “as a Hindu state”?"

      Or, as a MUSLIM state? I hear no pleas for secular humanism rule when it comes to the Islamic Republic of Iran, or The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, both exporters of terror.

      Thank you, New Jersey.

  • Saying Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is not anti-Semitic
    • "The fact that normal people “don’t bat an eyelash” is because those populations are indigenous, have lived there naturally. Those are their countries."

      Assuming you're referring to the many Islamic countries in the Middle East, including the ones with "Islamic" in their official names, your statement overlooks thousands of years of continuous conquest and immigration. Forcing people off the land is nothing new there, whether you want to call it colonialism or something else.

      There is lots of evidence to say that one group or another has roots in one spot of land or another. But your argument is a broad purists argument when a pure (or in your terminology, natural) people is nowhere to be found. And it presupposes that nation states with clearly defined borders have also existed for thousands of years, which is nonsense.

  • Censorship in Brooklyn: Food Coop bars 'any events related to BDS or Israel' from meeting room
  • It is time to stop celebrating Jewish dissent in the Palestine solidarity movement
  • Hamas wins major student elections in the West Bank for second year running
    • "Hamas wins major student elections in the West Bank for second year running"

      But haven't held a national election in over a decade. So, no blue ribbons for you.

  • Norman Finkelstein on Sanders, the first intifada, BDS, and ten years of unemployment
    • @diaspora,

      Which part is the tripe? The part where Palestinians should learn to fight without the pointless daily loss of lives?

    • @silamcuz: "The goal of BDS is first and foremost, destroy this illusion of Israeli exceptionalism in the god-forsaken desert of Middle East."

      Thank you for admitting that openly, instead of pretending it has even the slightest bit to do with Palestinian rights. BDS is nothing but a front for bashing Israel, hence 95% of the articles on MW are about that evil "entity".

  • Sanders 'put everything on the line' for Palestine because BDS movement has changed US conversation -- Peled
    • It's fascinating to read this article and the interview with Finklestien about BDS side-by-side. It sheds fresh light on how impractical this movement is in helping a single Palestinian.

  • Here are 6 incidents of Islamophobia on campus in the last week
    • @ Brooklyn,

      That still doesn't make the list I wrote indicative of anti-Islamic anything. Stop dodging.

    • I don't know. You tell me.

    • Islamophobic sentiment on campus wouldn't surprise me, but most of these examples (at least from the brief descriptions here) don't lead me to believe they are indicative of such.

      "along with mailboxes being rummaged through, and pictures of female students defaced. According to a professor in the department, Dylan Rodriguez, the crime was motivated by “anti-Muslim/Islamophobic sentiment.”

      That's a serious stretch to call any of that anti-Islam.

      "Earlier this year, a swastika was found at a campus restroom."

      Swastikas are not indicative of anti-Islam. I find them in past decades being gleefully drawn by Muslims and Leftists to describe Jews.

      "and racist fliers were sent to printers and fax machines on campus. The university held a diversity forum this past week to discuss this rash of issues."

      The printer and fax machine issue was discovered to be done by an equal opportunity hater white supremacist. Targeting everyboydy, not just Muslims.

      "The message reads: “Choose One – Pro-Islam Pro-Women & Gay Rights.”

      Political Islam is most definitely misogynistic and homophobic. This could have been written by someone who is pro-Islam trying to out the hatred within Islam.

      "pro-Trump chalkings appearing across campus."

      The man is a pig, but it's not a threat to anyone to scrawl his name. He's running for office.

      "For Muslim students especially, this must be of great concern. Examine for a moment, the recent study done by CAIR-California – where statistics indicate that over half of Muslim students under the age of 18 have experienced some sort of religious-based bullying. In fact, Muslim students are twice as likely to be the target of bullying than other students, according to studies. Now imagine finally progressing beyond the confines of a grade-school environment, only to see this trend continue on a university level."

      Well, without any violence, this can't be considered an unsafe environment. After all, Jews have been complaining about bullying on campus for years, only to see it poo-pooed by the Leftists and MW alike. So MW better erase this whole article otherwise you'll be seen as hypocritical, not that it's ever stopped you all before.

  • Pulitzer winners Junot Díaz, Richard Ford, Alice Walker join over 100 writers in calling for PEN American Center to reject Israeli sponsorship
  • 'Road to South Africa has never been shorter' -- as U of Chicago launches divestment campaign
    • Phil? Please explain why you lied to your readership. I don't consider the fools who have answered in your name to be acceptable.

    • Phil, the truth must not be as bad as you think if you have to lie to convince people, and in a headline no less.

      The University of Chicago is considering nothing of the sort. Yes, as you finally say, some students are. But when you lie straight off the bat, i simply don't trust anything you say.

      You're a liar, Phil. Caught red-handed.

  • Divestment opponents attack University of Minnesota SJP with swastika graphic
  • New Birthright trip for Jewish law enforcement seeks to counter BDS movement
    • Annie, With comments like yours, and by the way you don't even deny you're pushing anti Semetic tropes of dual loyalty, these are simply shown around at general meetings and no BDS in the coop is the result. And no amount of sarcasm changes those facts.

      Keep up your losing strategy!

    • Well, we plan to take yours, and Annie's words, and show just how you push the trope of dual loyalties. You couldnt have figured that one out by yourself? And here i thought you were smater than me. : )

    • Eljay, nice try. We don't actually make any such claims, and there are no so-called zio supremacists at the coop. Just as its not necessarily anti Jew to criticize Israel (I do so frequently), its also not necessarily supremacist to defend her against blatant lies, such as Woody Allen boycotts Israel.

      By the way, the only conflation going on there is when so-called anti Zionists say they are Jewish and want to boycott Israel. But absolutely no one at PSFC claims that they are Jewish and that Israel represents all Jews.

      The arguments at MW get thinner and thinner everyday. And they're very useful at winning battles against BDS. And passing legislation. And raising boycott minimums. And banning the SJP at CUNY (hopefully). And so on...

    • Uh huh.

    • These thinly disguised accusations of dual loyalty are perfect for the next episode of defeating BDS at the Park Slope Food Coop. Charges of dual loyalty are among the oldest anti Semtic tropes out there and we won't stand for it.

      Thank you again, MondoWeiss.

    • And the evil forces of BDS are being countered with a trip to sunny Israel!

  • Behind the #WeWillRespectHomosexualRights campaign in the Middle East
  • British schoolboy questioned for pro-Palestine badge and pro-BDS pamphlet
    • Wow. First imminent detente between Turkey and Israel, then BDS becoming unwelcome in US trade, then France cracking down on BDS, then England doing the same, and the Park Slope Food Coop making all boycotts more difficult, it seems like people haven't forgotten the lessons of Nazi Germany after all: it always starts with boycotting Jews then it gets worse for everyone. Maybe Palestinian advocates will have to concentrate on actually helping Palestinians from now on. But that's wishful thinking...

      Man, now all I need is a job and the future will look very bright.

  • Obama to sign AIPAC-promoted trade bill that legitimizes Israeli occupation and fights BDS
    • Calm down. It doesn't limit free speech at all. It just withdraws government funding from organizations that can be proved to be engaging in a boycott of Israel, an ally.

      Look, you don't want the US to protect Israel? Spend more of your time working for solar power. The only reason the US supports Israel is because it's a foothold in the oil-rich Middle East. Work from a more practical angle and you'll get what you want. Keep crying about morality and hypocrisy and your conspiracy fantasies, you'll get nowhere.

    • Well, the Israel stuff was very little of the trade bill. You should be happy it's passing because now you won't have to pay internet taxes.

      That way you all can continue to support Palestinian rights the same way you always have: without paying a dime, or sacraficing anything. It's still 100% free to criticize Israel. No risk involved.

  • NY's Public Theater cancels Palestinian production, 'The Siege,' it agreed to stage in May
    • I was hoping for a balanced investigation into why the play was cancelled.

      MW got nearly everything about the latest vote at the Park Slope Food Coop wrong because the writers and most commentors aren't members and weren't there for the vote.

      Phil has no relationship to the theatre, and so I suspect his entire article is wrong on the facts.

  • 'Let the one-state era begin'-- Tom Friedman explains there will never be a Palestinian state
    • Phil,

      "[two paragraphs of blaming Palestinians for demise of Oslo.]"

      Why didn't you just leave this part out altogether? It would have been a more accurate expression of how you really feel.

      Oh well, at least you still allow SOME acknowledgment that nobody's totally innocent. There's hope for you yet.

  • In yet another effort to revive dream of Jewish sovereignty, 'NYT' cites Thai restaurants in Tel Aviv
    • "...you are far better off relying on atheists, though you may find us intolerant of irrationality and bigotry. Secular and non-theocratic states are the way to go..."

      I don't know about that. The USSR and North Korea are pretty good examples of how atheist regimes can be just as oppressive, if not worse, than religious ones. People are people and they'll always find a way to keep someone else under their boot heel. I think the Kafka quote was, "Every revolution eventually fades and leaves behind the slime of a new bureaucracy."

  • BDS movement faces attack in six state legislatures
  • Park Slope Food Coop puts up firewall against boycott of Israeli goods
    • That's what they said 4 years ago. And if anything, less people support BDS at the Coop, at least per capita which affects any perce tage of vote tallies. For all their efforts to derail Coop unity, pro BDS candidates draw fewer votes each time when they run for office or submit proposals that are relatedto BDS.

    • I think it's very telling that barely anyone here is debating the actual event/article.

    • If you read Rosenfeld's speech in the other article, you'll see he mentions only coop unity. He never mentioned any particular boycott or country. Don't assume that bc some people disliked it that it was aimed at them.

    • In your haste to believe all things Palestinian, you assume way too much, Philip.

  • Park Slope Food Coop holds vote aimed at staunching boycott of Sodastream
    • @Carol Lipton.

      What struck me about your posts was how you come across as someone who wasn't even at the General Meeting, and if you were, don't understand the basic procedure of one.

      "The chair at first agreed that Jesse’s proposal constituted a change to the Bylaws,"

      That is absolutely not the case. The Chairwoman agreed several times AT FIRST that it was a change to the Rules of the Meeting. She changed her mind at one point to say then it was a change to the ByLaws. Then, after consulting with the rest of the Chair Committee and the Board of Directors, reversed her decision again. That is how it happened, like it or not.

      "She then reversed her opinion after Joe Holtz got to speak."

      This is true only in the sense that Joe Holtz and everyone else in the Board and the Chair Committee spoke with her. (See above)

      "At no time did the Coop solicit legal opinion letters from its attorneys or other independent specialists in non-profit law."

      Because the PSFC didn't need to.

      "We were limited to 2 minutes. Anti-BDS people went over 2 min., but when a pro BDS speaker did this, the microphone was turned off on her. Then the Chair cut down the speaking time for people to 1 min. 30 seconds."

      Anyone who goes over two minutes is given a warning. When they keep rambling, their mic is cut off. That's been the case, finally, for a few meetings. And why? Enough people wrote to the Gazette begging the Chair Committee to do exactly that. Why? Because people kept pushing past their limit at the mic to the point of slowing the whole meeting down and the Chair Committee was too polite to put an end to it. Until now.

      "Jesse Rosenfeld had about 8 minutes to speak,"

      The way you phrase this is as if he was given some kind of special favor. Have you forgotten 8 minutes WAS FOR HIS PRESENTATION??? THAT EVERYONE WHO PRESENTS GETS AT LEAST 10 MINUTES??? The context you use is absolutely manipulative because it's weak on that central fact.

      "I was thinking about just this all week- how can I in good conscience continue to be part of an organization of deluded, narcissistic yuppies, who wave the banner of human rights, egalitarianism and democracy while supporting a horrendously brutal occupation that saturation-bombed Gaza with more ordnance than was dropped on Hiroshima and slaughtered 2300 people ostensibly as vengeance over the deaths of 3 Israeli teenagers."

      The only reason you think such people support occupation is because they don't fight it the way you want them to. That is more deluded and narcissistic than anyone you accuse. At least Rosenfeld brought Palestinian olive oil to PSFC. He supported Palestinian businesses. He encouraged their dignity while putting some money in their pockets. What have you ever done for a Palestinian to ease his suffering? Post gory pictures on the internet that haven't improved the plight of Palestinians since 1947?

      Re: your plight with the Gazette and your letter....

      Boo-hoo. Get in line. Everyone hates the Gazette. Support the upcoming proposal to make it an elected workslot instead of an appointed one, and then run for the position. Stop whining.

      "What struck me about Jesse’s presentation the most was its tautological reasoning, that because Coop members who attend GMs, most of whom are white, many of whom are Jewish, are apparently pissed off at those who call for a consistent stand on human and democratic rights that would mandate a vote for BDS, that’s grounds for making it harder to pass a boycott vote." Etc, etc.

      What strikes me about your thinking is that you maintain PSFC is some kind of social justice organization that supports itself by selling food. Sorry, it's a business first, with legal requirements to keep operating. Without the business, there's nothing to boycott. If your moral core is so shaken by PSFC, please feel free to leave. I'll hold the door for you.

      And that you're willing to sue the Coop (for what damages exactly?) only proves Rosenfeld's point: that you and BDS are simply divisive and don't care about the place.

    • Well, Annie. If the best you can do is let Moosefart here do his usual lame-ass sarcasm bit, I conclude you can't argue this on it's merits.

      Do Palestinians a favor. Until you know what you're talking about, don't talk at all.

    • “Then why bother with the general meeting or the votes at all. also, some peple have kids and it’s not so easy to get away for a few hours at night. some people have night itme jobs. so it’s not quite that easy. besides, if all the members came to the meetings, there would not be room for them.”

      We hold General Meetings because that’s in our by-laws. Corporations must have at least one Annual Meeting of the shareholders and we’re generous by having a General Meeting every month. We are also obligated by law to have a Board of Directors which, just like any board anywhere, is not obligated by law to heed the votes of membership. However this being the Park Slope Food Coop, there has never been a time (except once in the 1990’s) where the BOD ignored the advice of the General Meetings or Annual Meetings because our membership gives excellent advice aimed at our health and longevity. It’s easy to point out inconsistencies and ironies and hypocrisies from a distance, but to get things changed at PSFC, you have to have an agenda item, and a discussion, and a proposal, and a membership vote, and BOD vote. No amount of demands or sarcasm will make it work any other way. And it’s great that things move so slowly. It’s give people a chance to breathe and think clearly.

      As for people having other responsibilities, I agree that it’s unfortunate. But it’s not an earthquake keeping people away from the meeting. In the end, it’s their own choice.

      “Of course i don’t know everything because i am not there and i am not a member. don’t get all uppity on me i am merely expressing my opinion.”

      Glad to hear you admit that glaring hole in all your arguments. You are obviously not a member. You are obviously not there. So don’t get all uppity yourself and encourage Naomi Brussel to sue the PSFC when you only listen to one tiny side of things. And there are hundreds of sides, not just pro or anti-boycott of Israel. There are also members who are anti-boycott in general, who are pro-Coop, who are pro-Operations, who are against our even having a Mission Statement at all, and then there is the large majority of people who just want to be left alone.

      “i’m just not understanding why, if you’ve got a members of the board vote coming up that will be mailed out to all the members why, in the interest of fairness and peace, they couldn’t have simply placed a little box at the base of it so people could check off whether they were for or against the boycott?”

      Why would we? First and foremost, we have to have a Discussion scheduled, then a Proposal Vote, then a BOD vote to get that to happen. Just saying, “in the interest of fairness and peace” would be skipping the democratic process. Secondly; the issue of boycotting Israel is not central to our operations, so the General Coordinators wouldn't dream of doing such thing unilaterally. Third, there’s nothing in our boycott policy that mentions mailings to the membership to be included in our yearly ballot mailings. Fourth, boycotting in general is not mentioned in the bylaws. And finally, BDS has no workslot, no squad, no office seat, no committee, not even an agenda item that has ever come close to passing the vote. Stated plainly and simply: BDS at the Coop doesn’t exist.

      “it would be so easy. no 45,000 dollars or 15,000 dollars. i think people are adults and would accept the decision.”

      Only a non-member unfamiliar with our democratic process would say that.

      “this has been going on for way too many months. it is a propaganda tactic not like the stand w/us position on colleges claiming the opposition is creating divisions on campus whereas the anti boycotters are somehow “cooperating””

      I agree that it’s gone on for too many months. But BDS keeps the issue in the air. And I disagree that it’s propaganda. We are a community of very good people involved in all sorts of social justice issues who don’t like being called racists or Nazis because we disagree with a specific tactic to fight oppression. We will not crush free speech, but the right to free speech doesn’t equal the right to say anything to get the ball over the 50-yard line to the point of pitting people against each other inside a cooperative enterprise. So we voted for 75% in the hope that if you are truly concerned about injustice and want the Coop to boycott someone, then you should know how a supermajority of the Coop thinks. You should need to convince a supermajority before you claim to speak in it’s voice. On Tuesday, we voted 75% and said that our cooperative business model as a whole is more important than any boycott.

      “They keep losing every vote except the vote the coop is afraid to host.”

      Who is this "Coop" that is so "afraid"? The sole responsibility for scheduling a vote to boycott SodaStream rests with the Agenda Committee, who refuses to be petitioned or bullied by anyone because they refuse to be politicized. And they have a very good reason for not scheduling the vote yet. If you were a member of the PSFC (oh, that’s right, you’re not) you would know that the vote at Brooklyn Tech in 2012 hosted almost 1700 people. The Agenda Committee is responsible for finding a spot that big again in order to show that we welcomed everyone who wanted to attend. (The Supermajority vote by contrast attracted only enought people to fill 500 seats at most.) But guess which champions of justice have made such hateful remarks over the years about Israel, and thinly disguised hateful statements against Jews, and bellowed how they don’t believe in national self-determination for Jews, and gloated how they support violence by Palestinians and Hezbullah and the SJP, that no auditorium that size wants to be associated with this nonsense? Our Agenda Committee is beholden to bring a boycott of SodaStream to the floor, and they are working to find a space, but they are stymied by the public image you all have labored so intensely to create. You have no one but yourselves to blame.

      “Well that’s a unique perspective [that only 25 people are really ‘pissed off’ that a vote to boycott SodaStream has been delayed]”

      It’s a realistic perspective. Truly pissed off people make a continuous stink and keep showing up. If you were a member (oh, I forgot again, you’re not), then you would see that 25 is a generous estimate of who is really pissed off in the Coop. The same few names keep appearing under Letters to the Editor. The same sour faces keep appearing at General Meetings claiming they wuz robbed. The same old people claiming to be heroes or victims. The 75% victory was a repudiation of this arrogance. And I’m delighted beyond measure that it will be more difficult to pass any boycott at the PSFC. Maybe people will have to be more creative about changing people’s minds, maybe they’ll have to use something besides emotional reasoning, or pictures of suffering that could have come from anywhere in the Middle East. Maybe they’ll have to work cooperatively instead of divisively. It was the right decision to take for the Coop, and it was aimed at our own cohesion, nothing else.

    • Why cant they just add a little checkbox to a mailing that is already going out to all the members? Because that needs to be voted on first. See? It's a matter of democracy in action. And we had such a vote at Brooklyn Tech years ago. And BDS lost it because people were more interested in Coop unity than any boycott.

      We're good people at PSFC, Annie. And we take real offense at being called racists and Nazis because we don't agree with a handful of BDS supporters who will say anything to gain sympathy. Meanwhile, they cannot prove how a boycott of Israel will in any way help the business or even help a single Palestinian.

      You want to know who helps Palestinians at the Coop? Jesse Rosenfeld does! He worked like hell to bring a new brand of Palestinian olive oil to our shelves. And who has done the most bitching about it? So-called supporters of Palestinian liberation. He didn't have to do it,especially since he is staunchly anti-boycott of Israel. But he did in the name of Coop unity, and to show that there are more than two ways of looking at the I/P conflict, to show that you don't have to be anti-israel to be proPalestinian. And he got zero thanks for it.

    • What you are describing is voter apathy, and i like it even less than you do. But you assume everyone with kids or night work is a proBDS supporter? I could say the exact same thing and claim that such people would have voted for 75 percent.

      The deck isn't stacked against BDS. People simply care about Coop unity more.

      As Rosenfeld said, and it goes straight to the heartof it, Coop unity is more important than any boycott.

    • And only a out 25 people in the PSFC are agitated enough to be in the "pissed off" category. There is simply no groundswell for boycotts that are divisive at the coop. Some people did vote against the 75 percent majority, but that doesn't mean they are proboycott of Israel. Some people voted for a coop-wide referendum years ago, but that doesnt mean they are pro boycott of Israel either. They were just voicing their opinion about how democracy should be exercised at the Coop.

      Just because a ruling didn't fall in your favor doesnt mean it was about you. Get over yourselves.

    • And the coop may or may not get unity under our brand new 75 percent rule, but it's not like our old policy was creating it. Just the opposite. Really, you aren't getting a complete picture because you choose to believe anyone who supports a boycott of Israel. And that's too bad because you look rather, well, foolish when you act like you know what's going on here when you so obviously don't. Your use of terminology and the questions you ask make you stand out as a nonmember who is just shouting about the wrong things. The very same things that our little BDS crew here are shouting about and THEY KEEP LOSING EVERY VOTE.

    • Then there's a bigger picture you're missing. Rosenfeld has strived for unity at the coop in all sorts of ways. He's helped with food drives, called for every coop member to donate one dollar to help relocate a Syrian refugee family, helped bring Palestinian olive oil to the shelves, pitched in to keep the Coop safe from Hurricaine Sandy, and donated his time with the Coop's outreach to CHIPS soup kitchen. He's not unusual in that regard because lots of coop members do that. In their non-credit work hours, it's implied that their efforts are not just volunteerism. It's for the sake of everyone pitching in to help the greater good of community. That's unity, that's cooperation. That's solidarity.

      If you feel that PSFC members arent progressive enough, then i certainly encourage you to move forward with your plans for an alternative coop in Park Slope. Feel free to take HB and Naomi Brussel with you. If seed money is all it takes, then i publicly pledge a symbolic donation of one dollar.

      Finally, the Coop does know what members want, especially in terms of a boycott of Israel. Any boycott, any agenda item at all, is as well publicized as any other. Anyone who cares about boycotts knows exactly when and where to show up. If they don't attend, then they have other priorities.

    • It's not "clearly aimed at preempting a proposal first put forward last spring that the Coop boycott Sodastream products" bc it doesnt mention anything about the Middle East.

      Read the speech. Rosenfeld is explicit in that he wants coop unity, and that the previous boycott policy left it wide open to a divisive approach to winning boycotts. Divisiveness in a cooperative organization is upsetting the majority of members and they want an overwhelming majority if the coop is going to publicize this kind of action to the world.

    • And this was the winning speech. The proposal to change the Rules of the General Meeting, as so noted by the Chair Committee in an open vote, was approved at 294-YES, and 192-NO.

      *******************************

      My name is Jesse Rosenfeld. Secretary of the Coop and Member of the Board of Directors.

      I joined the Coop because I liked the word. Cooperative. It just rang true with me. I liked the idea of pitching in while meeting my neighbors. We all hope for an end one day to long lines and the incomprehensible two-step checkout process. Still most people say, “I love the coop. I love it here.” I shop several times a week, I’ve become a pretty good cook and I’ve made friends with people I wouldn’t normally meet discussing subjects I wouldn’t normally encounter. Everyday I see someone on the street from the PSFC so the community I find here is not an abstract. People, I am making an effort tonight because we all love this place. We all work together and we want to see it thrive.

      Which brings us to tonight’s proposal. Our boycott policy isn’t about what we boycott anymore. It’s about how we’ll use it going forward to demonstrate unmistakable cooperation. Right now, the guidelines are too vague, as in: not actually spelled out in a hard number. It’s only implied, and until now unquestioned, that enacting a boycott needs 51% of all the votes to pass. This has bred an unintentional split-down-the-middle mindset when discussing contentious boycotts. Which is not good for the Coop. Going forward we want unity in addressing injustice, we want harmonious General Meetings surrounding boycotts, and to heal feelings of persecution in the hearts of our members. We want to drain the strength from poison-pen dueling so that Gazette editors will be released from working far in excess of their standard 2 and ¾ hour shifts. We want to give staff and the General Coordinators breathing room again to focus on operational improvements instead of dealing with the ramifications of boycott discussions and proposals. We musn’t let this vague, unwritten policy continue to overshadow the cooperative principles that are central to our operations.

      For example:

      ONE: Our Mission Statement says: as members, we contribute our labor: working together builds trust through cooperation and teamwork…We are committed to diversity and equality. We oppose discrimination in any form. We strive to make the Coop welcoming and accessible to all and to respect the opinions, needs and concerns of every member.

      TWO: The First International Principle of Cooperation reads: Cooperatives are voluntary organizations open to all persons able to use their services and willing to accept the responsibility of membership without gender, social, racial, political, or religious discrimination.

      What all this means is that no political litmus test should exist in any cooperative other than whether they are cooperating by fulfilling membership responsibilities. But this raises a few sticky questions: How can we fulfill the part of our mission where we welcome all of our members regardless of political opinion? How can we maintain diversity? And how has the Coop taken positions on boycotts without alienating the members who disagree with the boycott? The answer is that all of our present boycotts have been uncontroversial. Chilean Grapes, Coca-Cola, Nestle, all have passed with an overwhelming majority, and no one was offended or made to feel discriminated against along the way. 11 out of 13 boycotts in the last 25 years have been at 90% and the other two were at 80%. We found the sweet spot. 80 and 90 percent! That shows solidarity, not a virtual 50-50 split. Tonight, we can join together and fix this oversight in our Boycott Policy.

      Codifying the number at 75% to pass the vote, up from the unwritten 51%, further girds our foundation of cooperation. 51% is not solidarity! 75% is, or at least a lot closer to true solidarity. Our organization is open to anyone regardless of their political affiliations, but 51% leaves it wide open to anyone who will say anything to get the ball over the 50-yard line. To avoid that going forward we must strengthen the most precious bond we have: Trust. A cooperative such as ours requires almost blind trust in each other because we accept anyone willing to pull their own weight. With 75% we embrace alternative viewpoints and we encourage movement towards cooperation across political lines. It breaks my heart to witness the divisiveness surrounding boycotts month after month, year after year, and it should stop now.

      With all of our boycotts passing so far at 80 or 90 percent, and the unwritten boycott policy at present at 51%, a good compromise is 75%. The Coop presents many vibrant platforms for new ideas. All that’s expected in return is overwhelming agreement for a boycott. It should take a quite a lot of effort to speak in everyone’s name. It should be as close to mathematical everyone as possible because solidarity demands real understanding of what membership thinks . 1% past 50 doesn’t do that. 75% is both majority rule and cooperative, making sure we don’t boycott something in a way that could wind up offending a huge section of membership. Boycotts with overwhelming support will counter the distaste people have expressed for reading the Gazette, our public unifying resource. A supermajority will encourage people to return to attending GM’s on a regular basis. Our true solidarity will attract the 2500 more members per year we need to replace the ones that leave. And we’ll avoid potential erosion of 49% of our membership who wouldn’t want to be seen by an onlooker as supporting any future highly controversial boycott.

      Our operations and stability are more important than any boycott. There is much more that unites us than divides us. Whether you see us as your community, your business, or your family, if we want the coop to thrive, the cooperative comes first. The boycott policy must be codified at 75%. Otherwise, we will look at each other one day and realize that something quite precious has been lost.

      My name is Jesse Rosenfeld. I stand as pro-Coop. Vote Yes for 75%, yes for solidarity, yes for cooperation.

  • 2015 in Pictures: What Mondoweiss Showed The World
    • This is great! All this support for violence! Keep it coming! I find it very useful!

    • Mondweiss lays out the thought process of BDS advocates worldwide. I consult it nightly and it has been proven invaluable at the Park Slope Food Coop in defeating boycotts of Israel. For that reason alone, I will donate a symbolic amount of one dollar.

      Thank you, MW. The gift that keeps on giving.

  • Adam Sandler says he's devoted to Israel because of his parents
    • http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/except-boycott-israel

      Woody Tanaka May 28, 2014, 10:39 am
      I’m not really surprised. The Rolling Stones long ago turned into a joke, a bunch of golden oldies who’ll perform for anyone who tossed them a little coin.

      ******************************************************
      broadside May 28, 2014, 12:41 pm
      Dear Mick;

      When Israel’s occupation began, Their Satanic Majesties Request had yet to be released. You were a very young man, not yet a street-fighting man, but soon to be. Now, you are as old as the hills, the fight has long since left you, and Israel’s occupation continues apace.

      **************************************
      JusticeForPalestine
      May 28, 2014, 2:47 pm

      But now, the first and only thing that I ever will tell the next generation of music listeners about The Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan going forward is that they are a bunch of rich old men who support an Apartheid state.

      *******************************

      Ellen
      May 29, 2014, 4:26 am

      Yes, they are a bunch of trashy rich old men who are no different that an Adelson or Sterling who also became very rich off the entertainment industry. -

      ***************************************
      Ellen
      May 29, 2014, 6:04 am

      I can’t imagine worse entertainment than a bunch of middle aged folks gettin’ down at a concert by a bunch of tired ragged out old guys crooning pop hits of 45 years ago. It’s not a pretty sight. -

      ***************************************

      ...and on and on. And "old" I'm sure is not another term for "respected".

      Anyone who thinks the Stones have lost their luster haven't listened to Keith Richard's or Ron Wood's latest albums. And if they didn't pass muster as a group on stage, I don't think they would sell out stadiums.

      Think what you want about the Rolling Stones politics, but for people here to keep criticizing them for being “old” and “middle-aged” stands out as age-ist.

      So, Annie. Apparently I pulled that one out of your arse. And as usual, it stinks.

    • "Yup, most of us, as much as we try to hide the knowledge from ourselves, know what was done, and we’d be pretty stupid to think everybody was going to love us for it."

      Self-hating Jewish nonsense. Let me guess...former Orthodox or Conservative Jew?

    • And what is the conventional criticism about Stern? People who love him listen to him for an hour everyday. People who hate him listen for two.

    • Your criticism of Sandler (who I find terribly unfunny myself) reminds me of the disdain that the anti-Israel crowd had for the Rolling Stones once confirmed they had no intention of boycotting Israel. Suddenly, the Stones were irrelevant or too old for their own good.

      *yawn*

    • But America isn't the entire West. As I'm sure you must admit by now, Jews are rightfully feeling more and more unsafe in Europe. Jew hatred has been strong there for centuries and blaming it on the existence of Israel is an ex post facto argument.

  • No, those Israel boycotts are not illegal
    • @Annie,

      Well, it looks you've conceded the point when you answer with dismissive rhetoric, not facts. Or you answer with it's-not-my-job when a win for PL should be all too obvious and not need much research. And your link is to more spin, smoke, and mirrors. Not a report of legal victories for PL.

    • Annie and Talknic,

      Thank you for your answers, but nowhere have either of you mentioned a win for PL. Their "advice" is not proven to have carried the day under any circumstances. Wherever pro-BDS plaintiffs have succeeded it could have been for any number of reasons.

      Talknic, your sarcasm is unwarranted. Your link is to yet another case of PL merely filing a letter and you claiming that PL won the day. Their and your spin on the situation is quite incomplete. Your answers lack the confidence of someone in the legal field or who even has the whole story in their hands. It could have been parents threataning to sue the school and the school didn't want bad press, for example. It happens all the time. If you want to spend your time debating one-sided articles you read on the internet, be my guest, but I need to know if PL is the real deal. I remain thoroughly unconvinced at this point.

      WRT to the Saliata case, settling out of court could also have been for any number of reasons. And without proof that PL weighed in on the Saliata case and is not just filing amicus briefs and offering their own opinion at best, I would still have no confidence in them. As far as I can tell, their win record is zero. Perhaps the CCR would be a better choice to write an article here as they actually led the fight in the Saliata case, and while I wouldn't turn the rewarded money down, Saliata was not brought on board anyway and the university claimed no wrongdoing. Good press, but not exactly a win.

      With such tenuous connections to "victory", I would still rather go, as GreenStar did, with paid legal advice that told me to stay away from BDS because it would likely violate the law (not just surrounding the I-P conflict but also surrounding China). And no amount of reader commentary here would convince me to let my business be the test case for whether the law has merit or not. GreenStar and the Park Slope Food Coop have spent decades building their business and apparently don't feel obligated to endure folks cherry-picking the mission statement so they can use someone else's hard work as a platform for their own partisan politics. And anti-SLAPP or not, these coops still don't want to be dragged through the muck of legal proceedings just for the pleasure of getting reimbursed as some unnamed point down the road. Do either of you run your own business? Would you just jump in and let your own businesses and lives be taken over by a lawsuit for what would likely be only a symbolic gesture of a boycott that helps literally no one? You may cheer from the sidelines, but it's different when it's your own neck on the line.

      Finally, PL claims ShuratHaDin won't file a lawsuit. Well, that's cold comfort when SHD is confident enough to go up against the UN and Facebook. Looks like PL free advice is worth every penny.

    • Which case are you referring to? The Salaita case?

    • Easy killer. It was just a question.

      And I've seen that page, which is why I asked it. There aren't any victories for PL mentioned. Letters written, advisement during academic disciplinary proceedings but not court proceedings, calls to action, demands (though you can't demand much from a position of weakness), reports written, working with students to address threats, articles written, updates on events that PL didn't engage with at all, claims to "partner" with the Center for Constitutional Rights in the Salaita case (where every article I've seen mentions only the CCR and the firm of Loevy and Loevy), amicus briefs and oral arguments for the Olympia Food Coop case that is as yet unresolved, monitoring college policies, non-legal appeals to change administrative decisions, condemnations of a non-legal type, etc, etc. But no victories. It's possible that PL letters had an influence, but without any proof submitted, the opposite is also possible.

      Seeing that they haven't fought any cases, and haven't won anything, if I were in a position where I would need legal advice I'd probably choose a paid attorney who would give proper guidance under pain of disbarment. Not free advice from someone who is not held accountable. I mean, PL probably gets great press from this, but I fail to see why I would trust their views on anything. In the case of the Ithaca GreenStar Food Coop, the Board of Directors sought advice from paid, independent counsel before deciding to reject the latest BDS motion and so far no legal proceedings against their decision. So it seems like PL isn't standing on firm ground with their opinions.

    • What are the cases that PL have fought, and most importantly, won?

  • Obama can tie Israel's hands? 'Shtuyot!' says Aryeh King
    • He IS addressing the reality of refugees. He and the rest of Europe know that eventually the refugees will produce terrorists and he sees how well Israel dispenses with them. Post-Paris attacks, this IS the reality. Greece along with Hungary and maybe even Germany will also ignore the labelling system because they don't want to create enemies with a country that has more success at fighting terror than any other in the world. Of course they aren't perfect at fighting terror, but they do lead the pack. Eventually all of Europe will be begging for Israeli expertise and your sad attempts to lionize yourself as pro-Palestinian via BDS will fall away. Maybe then the Palestinians will actually have a fair shot at their own country without guilty White people screwing it up for them.

    • He has bigger things on his mind than your finger-wagging. Like a wave of Muslim refugees.

    • Why put Jews in quotes?

    • Looks like the reaction to Muslim refugees is already having an effect. Greece may have just officially recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

      http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/93626-151126-israel-greece-embrace-the-future-of-energy-cooperation

      Alex Tzipras just thanked Netanyahu, " With great honor to be in your historic capital and to meet your excellencies."

  • The way for Americans to take on the Islamic state is to end support for Jewish nationalism
    • So predictable you couldn't answer my main points, and resorted to name calling. Wow, "Zionist". That's like calling me a Protestant, utterly void of meaning.

      I used to actually worry a little bit about people like you. Now the cracks are really showing. Your main weakness is that you think people are stupid.

    • Shouldn't this article be titled, "Today’s a day to grieve for Paris, but NOW we can score political points."?

      Whatever. What a load of horseshit. The battle between Sunni and Shiite predates even the idea of Zionism. The fight of Islamic fanatics against dictatorships who rule without Sharia Law would continue if Israel dissapeared tomorrow.

      Phil, you are so shaken by how evil Islamists can be, so shaken you can't provide a coherent defense for these lice, you twist yourself in knots to blame Israel instead. How you must hate yourself for being Jewish. I feel so sorry for you.

      Why don't you go to Daesh-land and offer your services as a post-Zionist Jew? I bet they'd be happy to make the distinction between you and those you criticize and give you an important job with lots of benefits.

  • Egypt's destruction of Gaza tunnels leading to economic and environmental disaster
  • Obama friends Netanyahu with one-sided statement
    • That's great news. MW made me worried for a few seconds, but now I'm over it. Thanks for the update, Phil!

  • An Open Letter to Dan Rabinowitz: Let’s get our facts straight about BDS
    • Oh, you're most definitely privileged, Annie. You are racially and economically perched above the rest of the world here in the US. You are safe with your white skin and your money. All you have to do is say, "Sorry, I didn't mean it." and your transgressions would be forgiven by the people you offend if they ever decide to come after you. Those people of color who you push to the front lines will not be as quickly forgiven. Shame on you.

  • As Congress heeds Israel lobbyists, press blacks out Abunimah, Munayyer and Blumenthal
  • 'Most-read' article at Washington Post calls Israel 'savage, unrepairable society'
    • And I don't think that the Palestinians are better off under a brutal occupation. But they are certainly better off without you.

    • No, I don't think you do make the connection. Your insistence on supporting boycotts based on morality or legality are simply one more thing that haven't improved Palestinian lives one bit. How long has this boycott gone on, since '48? The Arab/Muslim world has put boycotting or even destroying Israel outright in exactly those terms all along: Israel doesn't deserve to exist, or that it's just evil. I don't honestly think that they or you have the interests of the Palestinians in mind. Otherwise you'd be posting pictures of yourself restoring destroyed shelters, or feeding children, or creating business opportunities. It's obviously just a lot easier to blame Israel for everything which is not the same thing as being pro-Palestinian. It's activism on the cheap, where you don't have to sacrifice a thing, but it's OK if Palestinians suffer because that's part of your plan to save them.

      Try an approach that produces results, unless your goal is to just sit in bed behind your MacBook and post on websites so you can feel superior.

    • Well, I'm disturbed that you're willing to pursue a path that you admit will lead to more Palestinians suffering physically just so you can bring Jews to spiritual suffering (which they have processed masterfully through the centuries without your help by making self-referential art and comedic films). It's pretzel logic, ultimately uncaring for those you claim to care about, and hateful of Jews.

      Once again, I maintain that boycotts are not practical. And your comment only cements my position.

    • Forget questions of morality or legality. Boycotting Israel, if your true aim is alleviate Palestinian suffering, isn't even practical.
      Israel has been under boycott officially and unofficially by the Arab/Muslim world since '48. Yet Palestinians suffer more while Israel grows stronger.
      Get the connection?

      http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-high-court-bds-activists-guilty-of-discrimination/

  • Rightwing Zionist fanatics prompt NY official to denounce BDS
    • How is writing that the Palestinians are worse than Nazis any more fanatic than MW and it's comment section saying the same and worse about Zionists?

      Sounds like you all have a lot in common with Zionists. Eeep!!

  • 'Oglethorpe stands with Palestine': BDS comes to the American south (Updated)
    • @James North. Hasbra Central doesn't send me anywhere. That's a paranoid delusion in your mind that lets you believe in conspiracy theory. The sad reality is that BDS thinks most people are idiots who can't read between the lines of rhetoric and understand hypocrisy when they see it. Then, when we call BS, you're left with the losing hand.

    • Way to hone in on one inconsistency without addressing the substance of what I said. Next you'll be correcting my punctuation.

      BDS is being uncovered for what it is, a devious tactic to bash Israel. It reminds me of when someone at the Park Slope Food Coop wrote a letter to the newspaper claiming that Woody Allen boycotts Israel.

    • But just like every other administration in the Western world so far, they will not follow the student governments lead. That's what responsible administrators do. They don't consider moral dilemmas (meaning that there are more than two sides to every story) a suicide pact.

      Universities, food coops, and local US governments are getting the hint. BDS is bad news.

    • OMFG! How misleading a headline can you possibly make? And the first sentence, even more so.

      This is the sort of devious, lying, sneaky bullshit that gets BDS a legal kick in the ass.

      Illinois, Indiana, and now the GreenStar Food Coop in Ithica NY. They can't stand the dishonesty. So sorry, Hostage. You're no lawyer, so pay attention to ones that have to work for a living.

      http://www.greenstar.coop/component/content/article/103-special-news/1438-a-message-to-the-membership-of-greenstar-co-op-from-its-council-on-the-decision-to-reject-a-referendum-on-boycotting-goods-from-israel

      Aaaaaand....here's the latest example: Washington State Supreme Court just this morning gagged on the fact that the co-op board of the Olympia Food Coop decided to vote on their own boycott resolution at a regularly scheduled co-op board meeting, but with no mention of a possible vote on the agenda, in a room filled with organized BDS supporters, with no one in opposition present. And in violation of specific requirements of its own board-adopted boycott policy, the Olympia food co-op board voted on the BDS boycott proposal. So the Washington State Supreme Court held, by a vote of 9-0 that a lawsuit can proceed against Olympia Food Co-op board members, challenging their 2011 decision to boycott Israeli products.

      http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/justices-toss-washington-law-countering-bad-faith-lawsuits/

      And I can't wait until the Europeans have to give up their boycott agendas so they can get ahold of much needed US trade dollars.

  • Now there's a 'Birthright' for those over 26 and intermarried -- 'Honeymoon Israel'

Showing comments 343 - 301
Page: