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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
p.s. by the way, the Shashi article goes to great lengths to identify and shout "racist!", which seems obsessive, and maybe driven by deep personal doubts.
Shasha's article supports its claims by linking to his own works rather than Massad's, so it is more emotional rant than Massad's article which is more informational.
Massad aside, what Shasha is talking about seems way worse in the Christian world than in the Jewish one! Most WHITE and privileged Euro-Christians have NO IDEA that Arab Christians even EXIST, in spite of all their bible-study with Palestinian cities all over them!
I have helped to sell Palestinian crafts at Catholic churces in the US, and while the congregations LOVED buying gifts made in Bethlehem, a priest took me aside one day, quietly and embarrassed, to verify that our "profits" were going to Catholics in Palestine....
Meanwhile, in Jerusalem, a handful of different Christian churches share the keys to the most sacred sites in the Old City which is in itself an act of rebellion. Israel is doing all it can to shrink their presence, and ignorant white American Catholic priests are worried that some of "their" money might go into the hands of the "wrong" Christians! Personally, I couldn't care less, and the earth is 4.5 billion years old, and humans evolved over millions of years, so Jerusalem is just another Disneyland in my opinion!
And, meanwhile again, little beggar children in the streets of Bethlehem will try to chase the few tourists they see while Palestinian police chase the little children - a perfect example of colonial control with our own tax dollars and of our culture of abusive domination all the way down the ladder. After thousands of years, who can expect a religion to stay the same? I believe that Christianity will lose all connections to where it began and simply evolve into the familiar old model of the privileged stuffing themselves with cream puffs while being served by masses of lesser people who they believe their god smiles upon for their unending suffering.
So, Ashkenazi/Sephardic Jews may have similar issues, but it really doesn't look like more than a little every-day racism to me. Extermination of Palestinians overshadows it. It's like worrying about the different European cultures over US history while erasing indigenous altogether and enslaving Blacks. (me? I'm white privileged Euro, though darker, and mostly Gypsy!)
a melting pot? isn't that a one-state solution?
if Americans want military action, don't they know they can sign up to be "part of that" for their own country?
I don't think the girl really meant she wanted any actual military action.
Maimon's response is that Israel's superior "democracy" allows victims to express their opinions while they are being ethnically cleansed... what a riot!
The other responses all reduce to claims of Israel's greatness because of an Intel chip and they are actually trying to ERASE the human being Stephen Hawking (!)
to hide their guilt from themselves...
"Keller’s column - 'The I-Can’t-Believe-I’m-a-Hawk Club' where he came out for the Iraq war in 2003 - is a classic."
looks like a sheep. smells like a sheep. sounds like a sheep. but he thinks he can fly?
(they must make drone keyboards for cloven hooves.)
James Canning - I'm only quoting the Israeli official on "control of American politics" and assuming he calls it "conspiracy" because he denies it. Now the embassy will get busy pressuring TV, which only adds to the existing list of examples Americans already have to base theories on. The swift reaction to the (unaired) Saturday Night Live skit was like putting the cherry on top of the dessert. The whole thing was delicious.
Justpassingby says it best: "Quite ironic"!
the Israeli official says (in ynet) that the TV depiction of the lobby/etc is what "justifies all conspiracy theories about the Israeli and Jewish conrol of American politics".
no, it's the reaction by the Israeli embassy and the actions of the lobby and the congressional trips to Israel and the lack of "daylight between us" and the standing ovations (erections!) to a foreign leader and the promising of another war and on and on.... it's not the TV depictions of it.
it may be progressive for NPR to do a segment on "mapping", but it didn't do much to chip away at the average American misperception that Palestinians are trying to take something away from the Israelis rather than the other way around.
The general context was the same: Palestinians protest, throw rocks, get killed. We don't know why or whose land they are doing it on. Israel is the nice policeman (white) trying to avoid the terrorism/intifada/jihad (muslim). I know lots of people who listen to this stuff and still don't know that "settler" refers to the Israelis. When NPR is on in my car, I have to keep interrupting with corrections to the context so my passengers aren't misled. It gets old.
And I'm completely serious that if ThisAmericanLife groupies think that questioning how we feel about "mapping" is so deep and thought-provoking, especially without proper context, then they need to be able to imagine doing it here.
Put it this way: I never imagined my country torturing people like evil South American dictators did to nuns. I never imagined my country occupying middle eastern countries and shooting families at checkpoints. I never imagined my country fearing muslims. I never imagined my country being a target for random bombings. But now I know that whatever I see Israel doing, it's coming here.
thank you, Henry. I was a little put off by Glass' intro to the segment explaining that it's no surprise that people would disagree about the photos because they are from "a part of the world where people disagree about how to interpret so, so many things". I expected the segment to include a Palestinian viewpoint, but Updike only presented two very slightly different versions from IDF soldiers! (neither of which explained that Palestinians protesting on their own land were being abducted and killed by the IDF.) I was so bummed.
But more than that, I was stunned by the explanation that "mapping" is probably successfully keeping violence against Israelis down. After the two shows on the violence suffered by high school kids in the southside of Chicago ("Harper High School" etc), would Updike and Glass consider "mapping" to solve things there?
Can you imagine that?? If it works for Israelis, why not here?? How can it not sound sick and twisted to Updike? Maybe people in THIS part of the world disagree more about how to interpret things than they do in the middle east??
And today in the news, there is an FBI sting that effectively eliminates a Muslim kid from Chicago by hooking him into joining fighters in Syria... is this the FBI's form of "mapping"?
it is false that engineering in the bay area has such a blacklist! and, believe me, I know it!
I also think it is bad for people to keep repeating that because some will believe it, and then it may affect behavior. but it is NOT true, and nobody should fear it.
glad that susan1 feels intimated by the free speech of others. and yes, there are two sides. whenever an uninformed American says to me, "I thought the settlers were the Palestinians", I LOVE giving them the "other side". it's one of my favorite sports, and I'm not intimidated by my government or susan1's - even on campus!
Israel says it is improving the conditions of its illegal detention of occupied minors? what, better torture techniques? but what human rights org could read that with a straight face when Israel won't give them ANY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS such as not being arrested by foreign soldiers, the right to live on their own land, the right to vote in the system that the settlers do which apparently governs them all... Israel's embassy officials are paid to lie, of course.
wow, the ultimate "jew vs jew" on Palestine! it's Israeli vs Israeli!
Dalit rocks!
in the stupid piece on thedailybeast, Mr Reut calls Dalit "my interlocutor" and "my traveling companion". she is neither! all she did was sit in her assigned seat on an airplane and endure his company. but she engaged him and wrote about it!
she rocks. all he did was spout the crap we already hear: divestment is anti-two-state. (who cares?) divestment is anti-"israel" (the democraticandjewishstate whatever that means....) who cares?
so, ... is that all? Mr Reut who develops the state of the art in Israel propaganda can only spout the same old? that's all? there will be no one state because it isn't Jewish and democratic, and there will be no two state because BDS and the world won't stand for several million people paying taxes and not voting and being ethnically cleansed (it's called apartheid to say the least)?
that's all?
forgot to mention: Israeli deaths are published in the press MANY times more often than Palestinian deaths (many of which aren't even covered at all).
a former AIPAC employee told me all about how they had a goal of placing a "positive" story about Israel EVERY DAY in major newspapers. (he even told me how.) I did some newspaper research myself, and I saw it: the international news section always had the bad news with the latest violence, but there was ALWAYS a dumb piece about some useless topic about Israel too. always.
I'll bet it's basically the same thing with the NPR coverage of Jews. I always assumed it was.
big deal, so maybe the judge would make Silverman buy whatsername some new chalk and pay for her doctor bill.
how is this conflated with rocketing people's offspring in Sderot? NPR reported today that it is the second breaking of the cease-fire by Hamas! (then they said some other group claimed responsibility, huh?) if Israel doesn't want a broken cease-fire, then they should stop killing and maiming and shooting at Palestinians. when will Israelis stop the REAL brutality? do parents of Sderot residents ever cringe at the shooting of a Palestinian during a cease-fire? I only see them gloating over it, just like they gloat over what they did to Tristan Anderson and Rachel Corrie (etc).
p.s. get some PERSPECTIVE here, guys: we're talking about starting another war with all the horror that entails at the behest of zionists, and the ONLY strategy they have for countering our RESISTANCE to ETHNIC CLEANSING IN OUR NAME is to try to pick fights at peaceful demonstrations. that's all they have. don't get sidetracked by it. buy the girl some chalk and keep your head up.
schools need no excuse to nix that ad! what if they allowed the exact same thing with "Jewish" instead of "Islamic"? they'd be sued. imagine: "Jewish Apartheid Week" on campus, complete with "expert" speakers on judaism!!
but the funniest part is that the Horowitz ad and web page are missing the biggest example of oppressive sharia law, Saudi Arabia, and the US is shipping record-breaking amounts of weapons there. where's Horowitz's protest signs, "STOP ARMING SAUDI ARABIA" and "DON'T LET SAUDI ARABIA GET NUKES"?
gee, that might be too consistent with "STOP FUNDING ISRAELI APARTHEID".
I'm sure their "expert" speakers will ALL agree that US military intervention in Iran is called for, however US military intervention seems to be overturning secular governments in favor of sectarian civil wars and fundamentalists everywhere.... hmmmm. Islamophobe week sounds like a riot. wish I were there!
the fists in the logo are upside-down, though they do look clenched!
the funny thing is, if you travel to the West Bank and Israel to see Christian sites or whatever, the Israelis treat you like you're dirt, NOTHING like that logo! it is such a lie.
"do Americans want any part of what they're selling?"
I don't think they can sell Americans a war on Iran. Americans seem complacent about doling out $billions (while Israelis claim victory through superiority instead), but Americans are not going to take another war in a country the size of Iran without getting even more curious about middle east affairs.
by the way, the hasbara polls showing "American support for Israel" only say that the public has no reason to want harm to come to any country dominated by white folks. you could easily produce polls like that about American support for just about anywhere. it does not mean Americans will gladly join the military to fight for someone else's ethnic cleansing, and if they knew it, we wouldn't be funding it, either.
the logo is such a lie.
I had the same reaction as Austin Branion when I read the Economist article.
"Israeli Jews will not do that" (that is concede one-man-one-vote as South African whites did) is immediately followed by "Even if the Palestinians were remarkably tolerant—and that is questionable...".
CLEARLY white people own the concession of voting rights over others! Palestinians who object to their apartheid are "intolerant"? there is NOTHING "remarkably tolerant" about Israeli Jews preventing Palestinians from voting (among other things), and yet, the Economist ASSUMES the reader understands that it is a DIFFERENT subject to talk about Palestinians giving Jews the vote. and the Economist never wondered why the South African Blacks should bother giving those remarkably INTOLERANT whites the vote!
that's hilarious!
McConnell uses "totalitarianism" to describe the reaction of the adults, not the letter from the student. I agree with McConnell after seeing MANY cowardly reactions by adults who don't even know anything about the subject, including the adults who told UCB senators that their careers would be at stake it they voted in favor of BDS.
I know people in their 60's who still think that they'll get audited by Homeland Security if their foundation funds reach certain anti-zionist nonprofits, and I even met a guy selling ISM wares who said he was afraid to put a "free Palestine" bumper sticker on his car because he thought it would get vandalized! and in San Diego you have your congressmen urging your administration NOT to allow BDS on campus.
McConnell is only wrong in that it isn't just a "whiff" of totalitarianism. it is the very definition. the good news is that among the people I've seen whose actions are controlled by fears of zionist power without knowing anything about the issues, nearly ALL of them are fascinated to learn the truth.
the ynet article is a must-read. Oren says they're working on a PR stunt to place a cover photo in a "number of US newspapers" to proclaim that a famous photo of an infant killed in Gaza last November was killed by Hamas ("determined by the UN") rather than Israel. Oren says that Israel is the victim of "the other side" which cleverly uses the media to make it look like Israel massacred defenseless Palestinians in cold blood while it was really that Israel was massacred by Hamas rockets and did nothing but offer "peace". Oren whines, "what are we to do?" because the photo and the truth (that Israel killed the baby) hurt his hasbara efforts, so he has to completely reverse the story and turn an entire orgy of murder and terror by Israel upside down and cry about being the victim of the press - what else is he to do?
if it isn't bad enough PR simply to look at what Israel DOES to the Palestinians, placing cover photos in US papers in an attempt to reverse the image of the culprit through lying merely proves that Oren is way more evil than anyone knew.
there is nothing legitimate about an Israel that will do that.
Congressman Vargas tells San Diego residents what to do and think because he's their "representative"? I see. the "greatest democracy" in the middle east is the one whose citizens tell OUR congress what to do and think and then our congress tells US what to do and think... !
that's not democracy. I hope someone gives him crap for that.
congress really does represent Israel and not us. someday we'll learn not to vote for them.
jews who have Israeli citizenship are often denied entry because of their activism. Shapiro could be denied even if he had it. so it means that Israel is NOT the safe haven for Jews. it is only a place for zionism.
the irony of it is that the people who do the best of God's work are Israel's enemies, Jewish or not. that is NOT the "covenant" they were offered by God to re-take "Israel" (if that is the ultimate excuse). it is THE OPPOSITE.
so many of the BEST people are denied entry with (or without) Israeli citizenship.
there you have it.
who does Hillel want to 'dialogue' with?
American students deserve to know the facts FIRST if anyone wants to 'dialogue'.
and I agree wholeheartedly with the demand for showing 'Both Sides':
graphs should be made available showing total Palestinian homes bulldozed by Israel alongside total Israeli homes bulldozed by the PA, total Palestinians (& Americans) killed by bulldozers driven by Israel alongside total Israelis killed by bulldozers driven by the PA, etc.
Hillel can make a giant bar graph for the IDF soldier that was crushed by a wall during one of their own operations against Palestinians about ten years ago.
so many pictures American students should see! the scale of what's going on is so much easier to understand when "Both Sides" are graphed and mapped.
and the big one showing how much money Americans give to the IDF and what they do with it compared to US aid to Palestine.
when Hillel wants "Balance" they can face up to the honest charts of deaths where each Palestinian gets counted AS MUCH as each Israeli and then BALANCE the numbers by STOPPING the destruction and killing, not by hiding the numbers.
Americans aren't getting 'Both Sides' yet, but hopefully SJP's are helping to fix that. then we can 'Dialogue' about Americans role in the ethnic cleansing and get out of it.
someday, displaying your love for occupation and ethnic cleansing around Main Street USA will cost you 100% of your US military "aid".
put that one on t-shirts for DC restaurants.
yeah, and IDF doesn't torture anyone to death, either.
(or steal or murder civilians or brag about it or lie about it or..)
Geller asks the right question: "How has our culture so degenerated as to make it virtually inconceivable that our most renowned entertainers would stand with [Israel]?"
she may not live long enough for the dots to connect in her black-hole-of-a-brain, but the world knows the answer, and the solution is BDS!
hophmi: funny thing, there's a much longer history of Jews bombing Palestinians, and yes, it would be better if the US provided no financial services at all!
(am I allowed to say this on this website?)
hey, why not. the settler and his rubbish arrived with all their weapons. maybe the jewish messiah comes with nuclear weapons and billions of US dollars.
you're very confused. nobody threw anyone out of the room.
the question is, if zionists think they can sue the UC's under Title VI for "inimidation" by groups like SJP for demonstrating against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, then they are huge hypocrites. you should read about those cases, they are nuts.
the IDF are employed to implement a violent ethnic cleansing. they are not exactly a community service group! parading them to an event like that is clearly meant to intimidate people working for the rights of Palestinians.
Americans may be typically ill-informed and apathetic, but we're not typically sociopaths! BDS is an apple pie concept. US aid to Israel is not.
how is it not pure intimidation for IDF soldiers to show up at an event featuring their victims?
can't the new legislation designed to protect zionism on campus be used to protect people who are ACTUALLY being intimidated?
what if one of the guests or speakers had lost family members and friends at the hands of the IDF, and maybe even the same individual from StandWithUS? that is intentional intimidation.
yrn,
fyi, Palestinians ARE Israelis and DO fund zionist propaganda. I'd say they pay the highest price for it! and I'm tickled that you suggest that Israeli funds must all be zionist.
however, not only do Palestinians fund zionist movies, TV, and pieces like the NPR one, but they also fund the morons who spend their days putting up posts like yours on website comment sections like this one.
your post is adorable, in fact, and I'm sure the manual on "how to respond to Five-Broken-Cameras" is a riot.
this part is hilarious:
"Wiesenfeld expressed disappointment that what went on at the University of California, Irvine--a reference to the disruption by student activists of Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren--has now come to Brooklyn College. 'To now see this type of degradation is heartbreaking,' he said."
heartbreaking! Students For Justice In Palestine get taken to court and expelled any time anyone does anything to protest or disrupt an event related to Israel. maybe the zionists should simplify Title VI and just be more direct about it: "anything that happens on campus, just punish SJP". Wiesenfeld is laughing, not heartbroken!
I suppose it's anti-semitic to say that Israel controls Saturday Night Live.
The next skit should parody Foxman.
I hope that students keep in mind that although the intimidation is real, the truth is that being openly anti-zionist does not hurt your career or your education here. Being dark-skinned is way worse! But being anti-zionist does not limit your success in the Bay Area. I know this!
This is not just a reason for Palestinians to have less fear, but a huge reason why white folks need to step up and join those protests and join SJP. Please do!
I'm not getting rich off invasions of Iraq or Afghanistan or Mali myself, but I see the amassing of weapons and hoarding of land/resources/labor and the pigs at the top exactly as Hostage describes the zionist project: "get rich quick" (or colonizing). It looks clear to me.
As for the main topic of this post, Americans are no benchmark for what "liberal" means. People tell me they are liberal and proudly voted for Obama, but I don't actually see any liberals anywhere here.
Maybe I just didn't know what it means, in which case, "liberal zionist" makes perfect sense.
this means that Israel intends to inflict worse terrorist crimes on defenseless people and (of course) blame it on them.
does that mean Greta (Wright, Blankfort, etc) can come back after their spankings and time in the penalty box?
who exactly writes these laws, anyway? when is the manual coming out that defines anti-semitic behavior?
and can you tell us how you managed to eradicate all bigotry from yourself?
Robbins: "we need eachother" ... but "it has to be eradicated". you're going to eradicate Berlin and Wright and Atzmon? for "it"?
I may be "it" too, so I'm not needed. who's left?
meanwhile, I'm sure lots of decent activists also run facebook groups full of card-carrying fascist Democrats that defend some very very bad people and probably even have bumperstickers that say you should vote for them.
Cliff writes:
"I would like to see some analogs to this farce. Has there ever been another conflict where one group (Zionist Jews) were so thoroughly dominating another (Palestinian Arabs) and the intellectual community was still bogged down and brought to their knees regularly when the former was slighted?"
probably all the time. last year when our local "occupy" encampment got rolling, there was constant conflict between the haves and the have-nots. lots of examples! such as: a homeless guy defecated in the middle of the night right in front of City Hall. oops. some started to want to keep out the truly indigent so they wouldn't 'soil' the 'movement'. some wanted to stop them from coming by just to get free food, even though it was free for the haves. and later on it became an issue that some campers smelled of alcohol at night, but I'm pretty sure that the home-full (who regularly ran the meetings) drank at night when they went home. I miss all of it, even the holier-than-thou stuff. it was healthy for all of us.
seems overly-dramatic to go to such lengths to demonstrate why you think Greta is anti-semitic, drag others into it, and broadcast it all publicly, and then say "this is incredibly damaging to the Palestine solidarity movement". then why broadcast it to the uninvolved and label the PSM?
really? if I had to explain all of this to my family (ultimately to explain why Ann Wright was rejected), they'd fall asleep. even after reading all the links, I'm not sure I could.
and what is all this martyrdom about being so pure without any racism/bigotry/etc "in our midst"? are you people aliens? do you really see groups of people who are without blemish and groups who are to be discarded? or are you scared of a blemish in the mirror?
from the perspective of someone who doesn't want to hear another obscure definition of "anti-semite" (Greta Berlin, now), this all seems way more related to personal issues that clearly hound you guys. if you don't like Greta, don't join her facebook. don't let her on your boat. whatever. if it is truly a movement, it isn't hiding behind the face of one person or group, blemish or no blemish.
and it's not "your" tent, either.
of course he's playing rope-a-dope. he roped millions last time, and it's clearly very easy to keep doing it. are you admitting that you're all dopes?
Phil says: "I counsel my anti-Zionist friends to make nice to liberal Zionists so that we bring them on board and form a coalition to bust the Israel lobby. Well Max Blumenthal ain't buying..."
what exactly are you saying? we all "make nice" to liberal zionists and liberal anti-abortionists and liberal racists and liberal Democrats and liberal neo-liberals every day of our lives when we go to school and the doctor and drop our kids off at their friends' houses and have dinner with our neighbors... I do not act differently only to "convert" someone or because I have x-ray-future vision and can see that they someday will feel sorry on their deathbed. what are you suggesting?
zionism is racism. I'm guilty of not fighting racism and sexism and ageism and enviro-ism as much as anyone. I don't feel good about that.
and whose "tent" is it that we are supposed to be welcomed into? what does it mean to "welcome" zionists into the "tent"? is the fight against a lobby the territory of one group? is Jeff Blankfort in that group?
don't forget that the Geller ad is not someone's private free speech and nobody broke into her home to harass her over it (or arrest and jail her for it, which we know DOES happen in the US).
it is an ad placed on public property. we own that property. (and should not be selling ads to anyone with more money than brains, and should be able to say NO we don't need to raise funds for public services by selling to the corporate/racist/one-percent.)
I don't see it as Geller's right to buy public space guaranteed by our constitution, and I don't see the public as not having a right to help it decay faster than it would normally. being in a subway, don't we have the right to bump into it, sneeze on it, block it from view, and of course, ruin it? it's not intended to be speech, it's intended to do harm to the public. if Geller wants it encased in bullet-proof glass, she can hang it in her window at home.
what if it were an ad to encourage your children to smoke?
Sherry Wolf:
thank you for standing up for the American public who are generally not all jerks, (dont live in NYC), and are rarely heard proportionally relative to the jerks who dominate our media. thank you also for taking action against the transparent attempt to pollute American thinking with Israel-Is-The-Victim-So-Let's-Forget-The-Real-Victims-And-Bomb-Another-Country propaganda. and also, thanks for posting your comment! you're awesome.
continuous bickering about whether an action was "right" or "wrong" seems to be a pattern after something REAL is actually DONE! especially something that Americans are too timid to try.
keep in mind that the ISSUE is that Israel is getting away with ETHNIC CLEANSING. thousands of words will be written about piddly spray paint and getting arrested, while the words ETHNIC CLEANSING aren't even uttered. that's sad!
so many actions are legal offenses of some sort (freeway banners, sit-ins, blocking traffic, etc). can we instead talk about the real problem?
if France were serious about oppression of its citizens, it would ban the nuclear power plants and nuclear sewage that is sending so many children to the cancer wards. maybe that's covered in their classes on French citizenship.
we could also "ban the oppression" of people of color by lightening their skin. in any case, who are we to throw stones? I like the article a lot.
did the happy couple not like the pics? she could just get a boob job, then.
I'm sure the public enjoyed them anyway. if not, then they can storm the French embassies everywhere! oh, except that the French like to close their embassies after they offend people.
nice to be able to just censor it all instead, huh?
the photo rocks. the Dems platform needs to add "synagogue in Mecca", not just capital in Jerusalem! and, hey, let's add CUT OFF RELATIONS WITH SAUDIS, tho not because there aren't that many Jews worshipping in Mecca...
glad there's something I can agree on with the zio's. love that picture!!!
I once answered the question, "what are your goals?", with "I want to end the occupation of Palestine". I was told that I could not take on something that can't be done. I was floored. I thought that was the whole point of working on it!
I took my ass off the "couch" and spent my energy elsewhere. it's been great.
whether anyone cares or not, there's far more to this that Jews vs others. I joined JVP many years ago because they were the leaders against Caterpillar and (in my area) divestement. they did not require me to be Jewish.
I'm just saying it's way bigger than that, and it's a majority of humanitarians vs others, many of them Jewish and most not just because of the statistical numbers.
anyway, it still boils down to Ben-Ami drawing a line that he wants to exist that really doesn't.
the psych-term for this is "projection". Ben-Ami wants it to sound as if christians are the ones snubbing Jews, but he's saying the opposite.
yeah, he'll snub the Presbyterians. oh, well.
the US never did anything to help anyone brutalized/jailed by Israel that I knew - and they were quite Jewish.
this story deserves mention in the "museum of tolerance" for pushing the limits of what we are asked to tolerate. (madonna music, no less!)
everything that Palestinians are expected to tolerate would fill a museum. when will that one open up?
it's funny to see the zio-counter-demo with British and Israeli flags. they ALWAYS do that in the US with American and Israeli flags. when hundreds of thousands of us demo'ed in SF in 2003 against the invasion of Iraq, the handful of zio-counter-demo looked pathetic, but there they were with the two kinds of flags.
so, they do this in every country? what a funny scrapbook it would make. patriotism-washing. I'm trying to picture them in Bahrain, a handful of pro-regime nutjobs waving Bahraini and Israeli flags. fools.
how can anyone be offended by the cartoon of the words we are force-fed every day? "there is no daylight between us", "no closer friend", "the close relationship"...
if everyone is already thinking of the picture EVERY TIME they say these things, why does it take so long for someone to draw it?
and while you're at it, the "standing ovations" sounded like "standing erections" to me.
"2. George Bush gave Israel the green light to attack Palestinians."
does that make Israelis feel better about the bombs they fire? "it's not my fault." does it help the conscience after bulldozing American peace activists to death to know that Caterkiller is a US company? is this all it takes, or do some IDF have to take drugs to sleep with themselves at night?
this "I had to because..." and "the devil made me do it" logic smells like guilt to me, or Oren would be claiming full credit for the evil deeds.
after reading comments and articles, I get that this is really about money/power/politics instead of religion/human rights. (I'm slow.)
Ira Glunts points out connections, and it resembles the same problem that infects all our issues. labor councils turn against labor to stay cozy (and coopted) with big politicians. Planned Parenthood is doing the same thing - they tell me their entire strategy is to support democrats and Obama, then they're surprised to learn Kucinich was replaced by an anti-choice female democrat. but they still give money and get their egos fluffed.
the churches sound exactly the same. when our local activists met with our congresswoman to beg her to vote against war funding, our Unitarian minister was meeting with her and applauding her "support for the troops".
the issues are not the issue. the Methodists aren't concerned about their inter-faith groups, they're concerned about their corporate friends and political gods. they will run around with Obama buttons too. and Obama wants that super PAC money, so they can't rock his boat. "it's complicated", as they say.
it's worth pointing out that the democratic party used to rely on their voting blocs with a much smaller purse than the republicans, but over the years they have chosen money over issues, and now they brag about getting MORE than the republicans. the result is that we get the same wars, privatization, social regression - just under a different brand name, and no one will touch the real issues. we will see the two brand names distracting us with fights over abortion rights, while they will BOTH de-fund the largest non-profit health services we depend upon so that the private for-profit corporations can cash in.
but another parallel tying all these issues together is the image of the multi-cultural, multi-age, multi-everyone majority united on the real issues against a shrinking 1% elite.
Is there any church that will divest from these three companies?
How much is that to ask?
I left the Unitarians in my city because they wouldn't even speak out against war.
Where is the church that still believes in christianity? anyone know?
Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated for it, and now you can't find a church in the US where you can hear such religion. How about other countries? anybody know?
or is christianity dead... ??
worse than Toulouse because Israel's very mission statement is to rid the country of Arabs to save its identity as a single ethnicity. Anders Breivik's goals for Norway are the same, and Israel's marketing machine in the US is teaching our kids to hate with identical islamophobic language.
wow. all the Eggers fans who are parents in the bay area and could not have imagined such a childhood hero would be a supporter of zionist atrocities are rather horrified...
this is a big disappointment.
wow.
real pirates stand up to ethnic cleansing. Captain Dave runs and hides.
Phan Nguyen, you are one talented writer! this piece, like your others, is INFORMATIVE, FASCINATING, and amazingly gripping - like a book you can't put down! even the weird robineye "parent" post is a feather in your cap - it PROVES that you are not making this shit up (and what an eye-popping example of professional lies that comment is).
the SJP action was well worth the effort, and the article rocks. I'm showing it to everyone I know from now on! what a way to hook the uninitiated.... thanks.
betcha those shifty Iranians also chased our jobs away, pricked our housing bubble, and changed our climate.
probably even tricked us into that disastrous war in Iraq. they may even have secret agents playing at all sorts of things to entice us into war with Iran! oh, wait, that's actually what the NY Times is saying....!
the IDF is more hasbara than an army. American forces who have been assigned to training IDF soldiers have said that they are pathetic and no one believes they would take on one of the their neighbors without hiding behind the US on the front lines.
so, it is to be expected that they will show the entire extent of their physical "valor" fighting with unarmed Palestinian protesters (and bombing a besieged Gaza and "defending" settlers in Hebron) while they probably pride themselves more on their propaganda techniques. I'm sure they did LOTS of prep work for Land Day and have much more in store for upcoming protests, anything related to BDS, etc.
AMY GOODMAN got what SHE WANTED.
and she doesn't look like she feels bad about it.
thanks, Adam, that is some inspiring video (thanks students!)
the bulk of the comments above remind me of our own Democrats and Republicans fighting over what part of congress is more to blame for our sins. what a waste of words.
go, Brandeis SJP, and activists everywhere!
yeah, the very "existence" of Israel "as a Jewish state" means ethnic cleansing. quite a problem if you want to debate "legitimacy" as well.
I don't mean to belittle comments here, just that the discussion is initiated by ancient propaganda and most are just answering it.
my gut reaction to Amy Goodman's show was that it revealed her opposition to BDS. at a time when two major churches are signing on to fight apartheid, she "just happened" to do a tired piece on a "debate" that aired the crap that we've all heard for many years. it's not going to promote a two-state solution, it's just not going to work, etc. anyone else bothered by that?
the upside is that the premise is FINALLY that the settlements are WRONG! anybody else thrilled by that?
Dem.Now is slow - the debate is done and BDS is in progress. what Goodman should be reporting on is on how it's working, and then viewers would know how stupid the "con" argument about "laser beam" targets is. for example, Caterpillar and Veolia are not Israeli products, and the campaign is not necessarily aimed at the Israeli economy. these targets are simply providing services and products that violate US laws, international laws, and moral laws. DN failed today in doing any real journalism.
most of the comments on this thread are neanderthal. are we supposed to quietly snicker at the discomfort of the racist nay-sayers? it is kind of sad. the truth is, South Africans in the 80's said to us, "you don't know what you're talking about - one of them killed someone I knew - they aren't human!" and guess what, Israelis have said to me, "you don't know what you are talking about - one of them killed someone I knew - they aren't human". so I know that there are South Africans and Israelis who really are afraid and angry, so I can't openly gloat to the hopmi's on this thread, it's not nice. but BDS is here, and the debate is done.
how come there aren't more of the better quality comments on this site?
giladg: no doubt there are Israelis and Americans for whom your explanation is true. and here is MY apology:
I apologize for arming Israel and allowing the strangulation of Gaza and all the terror and killing Israel has committed. I apologize that there are people like giladg who cannot see crimes against humanity before his eyes and feel apologetic. there is so much to be sorry for.
and here is some truth: in 2002-2003 during the run-up to the American invasion of Iraq, Israel hyped up its violence against Palestinians and also its killing and maiming of international peace workers such as Rachel Corrie right before March 20, 2003. I FULLY EXPECT THIS TO REPEAT ITSELF NOW IN THE RUN-UP TO THE INTENDED ATTACK ON IRAN.
that is what is going on, and it's the truth, and it makes me feel extremely sorry.
Walt & Mearsheimer say Israel/US won't bomb Iran because it won't stop a nuclear program (or ambition). but having seen this movie before, I know the motive is to destroy infrastructure, change regime, divide the country, control the oil. Israel and the US feel perfectly capable of that.
Israel doesn't bomb Gaza to rid it of rockets! and Israel and the US have apparently stopped worrying about Iraq's nuclear program. I don't see it exactly the way Walt & Mearsheimer do. in fact, I think Israel WANTS Iran to have some sign of enrichment just to have an excuse to commit unspeakable atrocities, and the US is just mean enough to jump right in.
Krauss, if you call me an anti-semite, I will take it as a compliment. thanks.
it's funny to ban Blankfort's voice for pointing out that this is how things work.
I still think a lot of the power exists because people cave in to exactly that kind of thing.
Polly, I don't get your argument against certain topics that "narrow each discussion down etc", but when you say this:
"You can actually talk about this where you couldn’t even 5 years ago."
all I can say is, WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS WHENEVER THE HELL WE WANTED TO. and some of us did! I don't see anything wrong with talking about collaborators, which seems like an obscure topic, and I have no MANUAL on what SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be discussed in polite company. can we talk about zionists collaborating with US empire today? the rest of us are feeling pretty culpable at the moment - why not talk about ALL OF IT? then five years from now, you can join us.
finally, if there is one thing I've learned from the I/P activism issue, it's that we all get The Intimidation (at least), and the only way to stop fueling it is NOT TO CAVE TO IT. it won't kill you. think about what the Palestinians face. be brave.
I'm not Jewish, but I've read all this, and I think "dbroncos" summed it up the best:
"Mr. Blankfort’s ” discussion of the Jewish historical role in the rise of the Nazis in Germany” has no place in “the war of ideas in the middle east.” If such a discussion were posted here it would dump a huge crapstorm on Mondoweiss. Phil and Adam are already swimming against the tide in the Jewish community and, I’m guessing, they’ve made waves within their own families. They are under no obligation to invite accusations of “holocaust denier”, on top of whatever other names they’ve been called, just to entertain Mr. Blanfkort’s free speech on a topic that has no direct impact on I/P. It’s important to keep our eyes on the prize: justice"
so, in short, we don't want to be called "anti-semite", so we should do what Goldstone did and make peace with whoever we offended.
of course, I not only disagree, I don't even get it! what's so offensive about saying the wealthy elite collaborate with the wealthy elite and sell the rest of us out? it isn't news.
I don't even get why Witty was so bad. I think he meant what he said, and he got LOTS of response - not necessarily of interest to me, but obviously of interest to Mondoweiss readers and authors.
seriously??? Jeff Blankfort??
why does everyone assume Obama would want to do anything to prevent war with Iran? or that it would be so hard to get reelected, especially given the competition, if he stood up to it?
the party owns him, and he's one of them. he doesn't care! he's just doing what he's told. you know who owns his party? the same industries that own the other party. they want war.
ironically, Obama has to pretend to be "left" of neoconservative in order to get elected. that bar is so low right now, he's having a good time giving his masters what they want and carrying the image of being the "people's candidate" at the same time.
my own congresswoman, a democrat, swore she was on "our side" against the Iraq war, to our faces many times in her office. but she NEVER did ANYTHING against it, and right there behind her lying face on her wall were nothing but photos of her smooching executives from weapons manufacturers. it did not take me long to figure it out.
guys, Obama is not going to stop it. he has no reason to want to. OTHERWISE HE WOULD.
I got no problem with cults. too-much-intellectualism is definitely one!
good thing some folks have no time to read all day, because no one would be in the streets. and they are........... (let's go).
p.s. my last reply should be addressed to "gazacalling" in case that isn't clear. thanks.
you are confusing the word "liberal" with "American left" which is actually very conservative. divorce does not stop parents from parenting their children. mothers in 1960 did not have careers to fall back on like they do now, which suggests that the divorce rate is probably more related to women's freedom to choose not to be treated poorly than sexual habits. modern countries that are liberal pay actual money for childcare because they value that work, and they provide a healthy safety net for single moms as well as decent education for the kids.
I don't even know what to say about the gay comments. I haven't noticed that they make bad parents! I would guess that it's harder for them to be better parents in a straight marriage than a gay one....
the comparison between Himel and Blumenthal makes no sense. Himel is in there trying to MIS-represent Abunimah as something DIFFERENT than what he really is. Abunimah is WELL KNOWN, has posted his entire speech at Penn, has an entire website, writes all the time, but that is NOT what Himel is after! I don't think Blumenthal is trying to MIS-represent people who actually support the shocking policies of Israel.
whether Himel should or shouldn't be given free reign is a different question, but I wouldn't go out of my way to accommodate that.
kudos (yet again) to Abunimah!
this article headline is misleading. Gutmann's office just gives the best excuse it can without Gutmann committing a CLM on the zio-mafia career ladder.
what's noteworthy is that the office felt cornered to respond at least, that the discourse is crystal clear on what BDS is, and that the goals of the well-heeled esquires and other board members are the OPPOSITE of human rights which are supported by students everywhere - and is the point of the conference.
I like it.
who wants war with Iran?
1. the same people that want to export Palestinians, take ALL of the West Bank, and further strangulation of Gaza.
2. the same people that want to divide & conquer Syria and Lebanon.
3. the same people that face the US spiraling economy during an election year.
4. the same people that rule over the US empire as it is falling apart.
don't listen to what they say - watch what they do. believe what you see, not what they say.
you guys are completely ignoring the weapons industry. the "pinky and the brain" analogy works: everyone is stupidly in line with never-ending war, republicrats, spentagon, media, you name it. the MIC is the brain. probably the biggest thing the US gets from Israel is justification and fear, and Israel gets its ethnic cleansing, US welfare, and its own weapons industry.
yeah, nobody wants war with Iran, but nobody is going to stop it, either.
and Obama doesn't have to worry about this topic in any election debates, and both parties can be openly as hawkish as they want to be.
I could be misunderstanding your last comment, but it's worth pointing that Palestinians tend to be well-educated and well-employed here.
Bronner is speaking from the viewpoint of an Israeli: our war with Iraq WAS a cakewalk for them, so what's another one?
Israel is foaming at the mouth to "help" by exterminating as many of Iran's "sponsored terrorists" (Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian civilians and infrastructure) as it can.
Bruce Wolman must be kidding:
"Therefore, I strongly recommend that publishers, pundits and bloggers such as Glenn Greenwald, Andrew Sullivan, Katha Pollitt, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Matt Stoller, Cenk Uygur, folks at this site, and whoever else you want to name, put aside their differences and call a meeting to initiate the organization of a single-focused "No More Middle East War" movement. Sirota can negotiate to bring along the Ron Paul people. If organized and positioned correctly, it should be again able to gain broad public support. Even significant support from our soldiers and their families should be possible. We need an American Spring."
Here's Katha Pollit, wedded forever to Obama:
link to salon.com
sorry, I couldn't find the link on blogginheads.tv but it's there at the end of the salon post. Katha Pollit is a complete idiot moron.
Wolman, you must be full of idiotic crap to think that people like this are going to save us from the inevitable. are you nuts? how many people in the streets does it take? do we need to fight our police in the streets with weapons like Cairo? we did what we could in 2002, and you saw the result. now what?
it is inevitable. if there is any fight to be had in our streets, it will happen after the fact, and believe me, it won't be Pollit on our side! are you nuts?
that sounds like "denial" of what truly happened to the Polish.
the term for this agenda is "teaching our children to hate", and every time I hear an American say something stupid about Muslims or Israel, I blame these wealthy "charitable" orgs.
someday would love to see a video of typical racist (shocking) things I hear - expose the extent of the ugliness for Americans to see how they really look, like watching them piss on corpses. Americans need to face it.
they also need to see more corpses they are responsible for.
"Women in their mid forties can be quite attractive" (with a few tucks and botox!)
wow, ageism AND sexism in one comment!
Ron Paul must be to blame. :-)
regardless of the preferences for/against Israel's "interests" by the media, doesn't it seem likely that they do the same thing the moneyed interests all do? that is, be NICE to the next likely POTUS. or maybe it's just cashing in during the campaign spectacle.
wouldn't that matter more than journalism?
I thought it was "pity the billionaire; envy the poor"... oh, I give up, I can't tell which is lib and which is cons anymore.
Obama isn't sweating, and he's got all the political capital. nobody is "doing a number" on Obama - he's doing it on his voters.
the farther right the republicans go, the easier it is to continue to harm Iran and still smell better to wishful thinkers than the rest of the rot.
the US and Israel want mostly the same thing right now, and Obama wants to get it for his owners and stay in the white house again. he's not playing against them, he's playing with them.
if there is a card game going on, it's between those with power only, and the game is against the PEOPLE. we the PEOPLE are not even given a seat at the table. the PEOPLE of Iran are the ones sweating right now, and they are not alone.
Obama is not at all stupid, and is playing his cards brilliantly, much better than Bush.
he's accomplishing exactly what Real Power wants from him (which doesn't change from one administration to another) and at the same time dem voters will pull off a win for him in 2012 thinking he's actually fighting the power.
Israel is not his foe. they are helping the US get exactly what it wants done. if it's a "card game", Obama is definitely winning.
the fact that Obama may have "spanked" Israel over something does not in any way mean that Obama wants what you wish he would want. the US can crap on Israel's parade any minute of any day just by slowing the $$ among a million other ways. NOBODY has more leverage than the US!
don't you think it's way more likely that the US wants to attack Iran with a bit more international support than it currently has?
don't you think the US (and Israel) aren't already attacking Iran?
don't you think the US would like the media story to be a little cleaner than it is with Israel's recent bad behavior and public smirking about it? I think that's all it takes for the US to use its enormous leverage, and that's all I think we're seeing right now.
Annie & all, you guys don't really think that the US is opposed to attacking Iran just because they tell Israel to wait for sanctions to work, do you?
the US may simply not want Israel to fire the first shot in public, but the US still wants to hurt Iran so bad and then get 'em for threatening to block Hormuz or something.
or do you think sanctions "will work"? Iran has done nothing wrong, so there is no end point to sanctions except US justification for war - we've seen it before. the US is gunning for war, and you think we're not?
tell me what you think is going to happen.
in Feb 2002, the only countries that showed a majority in favor of war against Iraq were the US, Israel, and Kuwait. it was just over 50% in the US after Colin Powell put on his performance. Kuwait's poll added that its population was firmly against occupation. Israel's poll was unqualified YES, 61% in favor, I think... all other countries said NO.
in the spring of 2002, there were many polls. one headline read something like "US citizens approve of nuclear attack on Iraq", but if you read the actual poll, it asked, if Iraq used nuclear or biological weapons against Americans, would you support nuking Iraq? lots of polls are like that.
I do not believe that most Americans want to go to war with Iran. I do not believe that most Americans even know what war is like.
Phil, etc,
you CAN'T be serious that you think Obama is an innocent bystander in all this. he doesn't even break a sweat when he does exactly what he's told to. what a con! and Hillary is so turned on by the prospect of war with Iran that she stumbles when she speaks. shipments of weapons and arms deals are UP! yeehaw!
oh, and a "tipster" from Tel Aviv spelled things out really well on a BBC show yesterday: Israel (& the US) CANNOT talk/negotiate with Iran because they lie and arm Hamas and Hezbollah. so, they MUST use terrorist attacks against Iran to "slow" their nuclear energy program. Israel CANNOT initiate war with Iran, because that would be REALLY bad, and then Israel would have to go and massacre Palestinians and Lebanese to do its part in the war effort against Iran - which is the "world's" responsibility and MUST happen because it is the only way to stop Iran. he said it has to be a conventional war to "prevent a nuclear war". he did not say who or how we intend to deal with Syria first. and, in spite of the notion that NOBODY can negotiate with Iran, Israel INSISTS that sanctions be pushed to levels of severe pain FIRST.
these guys are DROOLING for it to start, and probably expected some reaction from Iran by now, and had to add that "neener-neener" comment about "unnatural events in the future" because they haven't got a reaction yet. the US is totally on board with this. it's not even about nuclear weapons. there are none. it's about a big f-ing war, just like last time. the US gets deficit spending, big weapons contracts, martial law, and Israel gets to speed up its ethnic cleansing.
even Amy Goodman hosted Trita Parsi this morning saying it's just a communication failure, oh well. nobody's fault. probably inevitable. Obama did the best he could. (that was Colin Powell's excuse!)
think about this: we can't NEGOTIATE with them, period. but we're imposing severe sanctions anyway? to what end, if we CANNOT talk to liars and terrorists? and we've already skipped sanctions and gone straight to direct attacks, but we're still imposing sanctions. and how would we even lift sanctions - they could stop the centrifuges yesterday, and we'd still ratchet up the rhetoric. Iraq was in the same position. Americans will buy anything. twice, even.
"It's as if someone sells you a flat and then demands that his mother-in-law continues living there," he said.
no, Leiberman, it's as if someone sells you a flat that your mother-in-law owns and your mother-in-law continues living there. you might not like it, but you can go back to where you had your own flat and leave her where she is. meanwhile, the family that bankrolled the flat (that would be me, the US taxpayer), has nothing in your fight and would like to get a refund. it's embarrassing.
this is so unbelievably stupid that any US kid can understand it. the jig is up, and as they say, you can encourage ignorance but you can't undo knowledge. everyone I talk to gets it, even if they start out saying they thought that the Palestinians were the settlers. kids from expensive private schools tell me that! it takes five minutes to educate them on that, and this little exchange between MK's is perfect proof that a "Jewish state" means ethnic cleansing. nothing more.
Anders Breivik and Jared Loughner said the same things that Santorum says.
they were declared unfit to stand trial.
US congress and presidential candidates have a really low bar.
Obama says he believes in global warming. that's all you want?
what about tar sands, frakking, offshore drilling, gas consumption, subsidized nukes, and a military breaking emissions records...?
you are completely fooled by the commander-in-speech.
Phil, your "insurance policy" is that Ron Paul won't win? so, you and Lizzy Ratner and Annie Robbins and a few million die-hard democrats really just want four more years of Obama. or you'd take Romney as a second choice. you like Paul but you really wish he were a democrat. but you can't find a democrat with balls. so you give up.
who is going to die? nobody you know? nobody in your family? do you give a shit about the rest of us or our kids or their kids? we deserve what is coming to us. we suck.
insurance policy.... ugh.
caroline glick says it best. israel was okay with assad in syria, but would be more okay with the muslim brotherhood in power so israel can demonize and threaten syria with force. the US apparently will go along with that, and it seems to be the same policy for Egypt.
I can't remember where the youtube of glick is where she says this, but it's a decent forecast. the last thing they want is democracy. surprise, surprise, and like libya, you'll hear future leaders speaking from western cities and inserted by us, probably by force, just like the rest.
so, it's not necessarily about whether US military wants to fight - it's about who we want in power.
Jeff,
no one I know gives a crap what "left" means, and "liberal" sounds more like "neo-liberal" which is the same as "neo-cons".
we're grown up now, and actually know who Gary Johnson is. Ron Paul is not new. we debated Kucinich while he was anti-choice, and voted for an African American female in 2008. we do not love Obama. he represents our parents.
I played Phil Ochs "love me I'm a liberal" for all my christmas guests this season. that's what we think when you guys say "left". I have better friends in the tea party! (they like that song, too.) they are coming around, though, on war and incarceration. everything you are saying is music to our ears. the liberal label is just another divisive tactic. the real point is that young people know that dems and repubs are the same and they know very well what you are saying about power. I even know what Obama's buddies say about him from high school. everyone knows.
it would be more interesting to see what the so-called "left" does when Ron Paul legislates against the people, as Obama does with impunity. let the labor unions rise up! they need to. we all do.
Jeff, that's apparently still how it works in NY, but here on the west coast it isn't. where I live, Palestine was only a debated issue nearly ten years ago, but now it's core to all anti-war and anti-racism and anti-imperialism.
right now, educating our local "occupiers" about imperialism is important, but the young people are much less naive, and every time the Israel-thought-police do something stupid, it just makes it easier. one thing that has emerged is that older folks who already have connections across communities of color and do things like ISM work in Palestine are those with the most respect - and a lot of them are Jewish.
labor is another story! but they're kind of a laughing stock at the moment.
I don't know where you people live, but I've seen what my local police do to black people, and it didn't change with any of the elected turds in DC (which never changes), so I don't see how Ron Paul has anything to do with it.
I've said this before and I'll say it again - we have more power to change that than the POTUS, so we should blame OURSELVES. honestly, some of you guys on this thread are heroes of mine, and it is sick to hear you say otherwise.
as for the Palestinians, Paul is not wrong that if Israel wants to cleanse them, the US can't stop them. the US doesn't stop them, ever, and the only two things I know of to do that are STOP AID and, what, war? Paul says he'll stop the aid and not go to war. what more do you want?
again, WE are the ones to do BDS. what more do you want?? whoever is POTUS, we still are responsible. whatever we do, we should be encouraging the diversity in policy, not shooting it down. somehow we need to figure out how we drive this bus together or we'll all be off the cliff, and if you think one person at the top is the entire solution and we all just go home and blame it on something else, then that's all you'll get.
we are going to war with Iran, and there's a republican candidate saying no. he's a representative in a congress that does not represent the majority of the people. yet, he represents YOU. a majority opinion on an enormous issue.
seanmcbride is right - what's really going on here? it sounds like everyone assumes only someone on the "left" could possibly do the "right" thing. good luck finding that!
Ron Paul is running as a republican in a practically-one-party system run by the same neocons. the biggest issue right now is who gets to pull the next trigger. and people who like to read Mondoweiss are saying they might prefer another Sarah Palin wannabe instead? really?
and if you love the dems so much, why are you so afraid of who gets the republican nomination? you don't want to see Paul debate our commander-in-speech?
this boogey-man fear that our kids will never be taught evolution if Ron Paul wins is not what this is about. if Paul stands up to the neocons and actually saves us from Israel (and whatever wrath it unleashes against US which nobody seems scared of) he will be assassinated. but you guys prefer the status quo...
we're not even talking about who you vote for - just who runs and stands in debates! good die-hard democrats prefer Mitt Romney.
zionism is racism. Ratner's argument doesn't cite any votes or bill sponsorships.
Ratner has anointed herself arbiter over who is racist or not and who is fit to be a human being or not. does she revere people as perfect if they never say a word? is skin color the only factor? isn't the idea of calling people "not fit to be a human being" kinda the same thing? how do you seriously judge people this way and compare it to torture, bombing, starving, blockading, incarcerating, and lying?
the real alternatives that the American people have are whether to vote or not, whether to build community to take power back, and whether to shed fear.
here's another point: Obama will do away with social security, financial regulations, the environment, public education, public health care, and no one will say anything bad about him. Ron Paul will probably not be allowed to do half of what Obama gets away with before he gets it from the media. you guys will criticize Ron Paul for being too libertarian but you don't criticize Obama for acting too libertarian.
regarding citizen's James Jaeger article: I always thought the fake fighting over trivial issues between the "two" parties was no more than an old-fashioned divide-and-conquer tactic. We The People split up behind both of them while the parties' sponsors walk off with the spoils. this is why the occupy movement is so scary to them. very good article!
regarding the racism label against Ron Paul: the ACTIONS, not just the QUOTES of nearly all the other candidates, including Obama are as racist - you don't see? last week my town held a vigil over the NDAA, and Japanese citizens vowed not to let Muslims be interned.
furthermore, if we can't integrate ourselves and respect our fellow citizens of color as though they DO have EQUAL rights, do we then blame Ron Paul for it? can he stop us? pulling quotes out to change the subject is another divide tactic. it's the establishment that's the enemy, the one that wants to hide from us behind military weapons, and Paul appears to be on OUR SIDE.
all this commotion over whether Ron Paul is racist or not? most people are. the mainstream republican candidates are coached in which words to use, but they are falling all over each other to do away with Muslims, due process, immigrants, etc. and gays, too. are you guys all just so numb to this stuff that you can't see it?
and Obama - we all cried when he was inaugurated! he won a nobel prize, but I think it was meant for us voters who the world thought were too racist to vote for him. but how black is he, really? he called a cop "stupid" for roughing up a real black guy, and then when the cops frowned, Obama changed his tune. he learned his manners in white schools and has done NOTHING for this nation that a good republican wouldn't. and, if 95% of DC's black males are criminals, more than that of the white guys are, and Obama is one of them.
Ron Paul is head and shoulders above all the republican candidates who would do WORSE with every issue you guys bring up. beyond that, I'd say our current "commander in speech" is a smooth talker, but actions are what matter. what is Obama doing to the 99% protesters right now? do we want the weight of the party marching us to fascism? or real change?
not any particular thread, just the debated notion that AIPAC donations represent "Jewish opinion" which eee claims is flattering to them. it's not.
I know a lot of people that donate to things and have no idea what the end result is, and it often isn't represented as such. but eee thinks that because the Israeli lobby is so powerful, the whole mechanism is being so clever, but I think many of the donors are not. maybe that's not what he's saying and he thinks the power structure is just really good at screwing both ends. that they are!
this is an absurd conversation. you guys are all responding to a Jewish supremacist who bases the supremacy upon the "success" of AIPAC in controlling US military interventions and foreign aid to Israel. not only is this NOT a win for Jews, but it makes them look like the biggest fools with their money. do you honestly think every Jewish dollar is consciously intended to end up attacking Iraq and Iran and building an army of settlers? some, like eee and the neocons we all know, DO intend these things, but the rest of those paying their tithe to a religious brand name are clearly easily fooled. in either case, there is NOTHING laudable about it!
as for the article, I disagree that Obama will change on settlements, but I do agree that Jews are openly questioning what AIPAC is doing in their name. (and no, AIPAC is not the only "successful" lobby by a long shot!! and no, Jews should not all be lumped together as eee does - he's just goading you guys - why let him?)
I think the democrats love war just like the republicans do! and there is far less than a dime's worth of difference. they are bought by the same people.
I don't understand what difference it makes whether you talk about public social services for a TV portrayal of a black man or your own grandma. I don't know what you're asking. Ron Paul is against all of it, and I am not against any of it. but I would rather be in the streets fighting for that ONLY which we are already doing....!
my opinion on TV is that it is a waste of time and money, but I don't think that's what you mean.
where I draw the line on the "Nanny State" is between need and greed: I live in the wealthiest nation in the world and pay a LOT in taxes, so I know that there is enough money that there should NOT be homeless people in my city (including children!) and there is PLENTY for basic needs. however, my government prefers to finance wars and illegal operations at a profit for the banks, fossil fuel industry, weapons & nukes, insurance companies, prison industry, etc etc.
the US is a Nanny State for the corporations that can't even meet a tiny need to feed the poorest of its people. we also have created a "culture of one" where we fence our homes off and fill them with every little perceived need so that we never talk to our neighbors and can't even fathom the community structure - even within our own families - that allowed us to evolve as a species in the first place. a symptom of that is people like you who fear that the US is a "Nanny State" because someone might get their teeth pulled for free. this is not who humans used to be, and certainly not in other countries! if your own grandmother was out on the street, would you take her in for free? someone else's grandmother? if not, would you pay a tiny tax for a public service so that they don't come live with you?
back to Ron Paul - the republicans all want to dismantle social spending, but one candidate wants to radically FIX foreign policy and the MIC. is there any better choice between all those clowns and Ron Paul? Paul is it, head and shoulders. then, what do you do if you have to choose between Ron Paul and the democrats? for starters, you ENJOY the debates!!!
in case you hadn't noticed, Obama's healthcare legislation does EXACTLY this: if you opt out of insurance, you get fined. you do NOT get medicare. you do NOT get medicaid. you get BIG BILLS or you DIE. people are living this way already, and Americans think it's NORMAL.
(I know I said I wouldn't read comments! okay, okay, I lied)
yes, Ron Paul isn't perfect, but I would MUCH rather have him as commander-in-chief and only have to fight for abortion rights and other things alongside my fellow Americans than have the lousy Dems and Repubs in charge and be fighting for EVERYTHING at ONCE. I love that Paul is debating in the primaries and making them look like schmucks and idiots that they are instead of running third party as he usually does.
ugh. I read this website because I asked someone (non-jew) where to get news about Palestine. it's so limited. but it is good on mondoweiss!
the "jew-vs-jew" fight over I/P is a necessary evil, and go at it, you guys! meanwhile, don't forget that the US-vs-the-planet and the 99%-vs-trickle-up-capitalism and pretty much everything else going on right now is actually bigger. we don't hate Palestinians and we have a lot of Jewish friends!
I think I'm going to skip reading the comments and just read the articles. but it's been interesting, thanks!
the last point in the ad is my favorite: US attitude is "downright scary, especially in light of Israel's growing need for American support as radical changes sweep the region"...
those "radical changes" are called DEMOCRACY, and Israel's "need" for American thuggery to maintain fascist rule over a few hundred million people is not sustainable! that's what's really scary to the "pro-Israel wing of the (whatever)". they can continue to whine for more "support" and more islamophobia in the US and sanction our universities and jail our BDS students and spit on us when we visit Israel for not "supporting" them enough, but...
that is all there is left. they got more than anyone thought possible, and there is no MORE left. if the 99% in this country hasn't had enough of it already, they will completely lose it if we join their war against Iran!!
that really is an offensive, anti-American ad.
I once naively thought that the FBI cared as much about internet crime aimed at ANY of us. I found out they didn't. now I know to blame it on an Iranian IP address and say it's anti-semitism.
Florida Family Association: "... the Islamic adgenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values..."
so the christian agenda is to attack all American liberties and traditional values that conflict with its so-called "values". at a typical christian private school (christian madrassa) this means: any sweater or fleece jacket or (god forbid) cotton sweatshirt with a hood on it is now called a "hoodie" and is NOT allowed. evolution is taught as a myth. god really DID give land to certain ethnically superior people (in 1948?). the LGBT are sinners and should be reformed or penalized. sometimes unicorns are banned, sometimes it's stories about witches... and now, what? TV shows about Muslims!!
"non-violent" resistance has its place when the oppressor is overwhelmingly armed, and there is no option but to stand up to it. it doesn't mean it works by itself, it just means there isn't a better option. obviously it would help if the US would non-violently withhold funds!
but throughout history, the thing that seems to win over the colonizer is being defeated by other powers. if the US doesn't stop oppressing other countries, it will eventually be defeated violently by other upcoming oppressors, I think.
what do you think, Jeff?
p.s. would love to see a photo of the slingshot next to the mound of weapons Israel uses against Palestinians. even just the arms used to kill the Palestinians this week alone would not fit in the photo.
who cares what the IDF says about their victims? they're paid to say the opposite, that the IDF is the victim.
everyone KNOWS what a kid throwing stones at the IDF is THINKING: I wish those crazy bigots would get off my land, stop killing my family & neighbors, stop taking our homes, and stop taking our land. THAT'S WHAT YOU'D BE THINKING.
the IDF shoots them regardless of what they do, and they know that too.
can we ask Michelle Bachmann if her private donor (who will house the US embassy in Jerusalem) will fund it?
yeah, my take on the whole thing is that both parties are competing for the same capitalist interests, so the republican primary can only get stranger with the candidates vying to see who can get their nose further up the corporate butt. meanwhile, the democrats just sit back knowing they can openly pander to wall street and the MIC and still laugh at us voters because we stupidly think that the more right-wing things get, the more important it is to vote for them. the republicans used to be afraid of the unions, but not now, after the 'citizens united' ruling. so the republicans can go whole hog and feed the poor directly into the meat grinders of the rich, and the 'wedge issues' have shrunk to who loves AIPAC more.
truth is, republicans have to run someone to the right of Obama because otherwise the right wing prefers Obama. the problem is finding someone sane to the right of Obama. I'm serious.
wait - you mean, God didn't give the USA to us white europeans?
sure feels like it! (of course, I'm kidding, unlike Michael Oren...)
Salon's Justin Elliot and Steve Kornacki have their own biased definitions of anti-semitism (Adbusters, homeless guys with signs about zionism...), but it's great to see them debating the issue among themselves!
it is absolutely true that the throngs of peons in this country aren't in the least bit fazed by being called an anti-semite.
ethnic cleansings are wrong. foreign policies that support them are racist. call me anti-semitic.
where did anyone get the idea that Rand Paul was outside the AIPAC fold?
Blumenthal's reporting is absolutely stunning.
the Greenberg antics are a tiny sideshow compared to the reality - you don't have to be an intellectual (or even believe Blumenthal) to have noticed long ago that the US is behaving exactly like Israel. torture is "ok", occupations are "normal", checkpoints, bulldozing, walls, blowing up packages at post offices, undressing airline passengers, disappearing mulsims, spying on ourselves, openly assassinating people, drones, ...
maybe I'm an odd average numbskull, but once I saw the pattern, it helped me to know what to expect next and to know where to look for some clue as to what to do about it. (no, I don't yet know!)
thanks to Blumenthal for the details I did not know. wow.
you guys are being too mean to Bachmann... she's the most entertaining candidate we've had since Palin.
be nice. though I do wonder - when she takes off her eyelashes at night, do they crawl around the room looking for a place to make a cocoon?
back to the real subject, PRIVATE DONORS are ALLOWED to DECIDE what the US "public" government does??? usually they have to at least LOBBY first. Bachmann thinks they can just write a check now! can we apply that to our next invasion and occupation? if the neocons and neolibs can find a private donor to invade Iran, can we then stay out of it and save a whole lot of money? can the retaliation be aimed at the donor instead of us?
it's hard for us to fathom, but try this: indigenous cultures we displaced see humans as the 'lowest' life form and all that comes before us as worthy of utmost respect. in the big picture, our destructive culture is not able to continue, but theirs is. so really, we are part of their '99%' rather than the other way around! in fact, I'd say if the movement were broad enough to realize that we have to look to indigenous people as key to our collective survival, it would be the 100%.
our money is false; our laws are false; our idols are false, and our culture of individualism and ownership is the root of what is so clearly failing right now. to change those things is only to tweak the system. when we give those things up and look directly to each other for our needs (and of the planet) we will make real progress. it should be trivial to agree with the indigenous requests because we are not struggling to include them; they are struggling to include us.
what does it matter, anyway? you can see human bones 10,000 years old in the archaeological museum in Jerusalem along with artifacts from older religions. I didn't personally need to see it to doubt that the old testament is truth. does anyone?
Muslims get hung up on this crap, too, but who cares? FREE PALESTINE anyway!
free us all, please.
Fogel's regurgitated propaganda: 'we can't stop killing Arab children because they hate us'. that's the excuse? that is cold-blooded.
what is her excuse for the continuing land theft? 'we can't stop removing them from their land because - ' what? they won't leave on their own?
the discussion will be superfluous the day that equal rights are won, but I don't believe that is the day Fogel hopes for. and as long as my country is supporting the ethnic cleansing, this discussion has only just begun here.
as an American, I resent Israelis interfering with our foreign policy and then calling it "safety". now the US says it cannot afford education, health care, or social security, but ONLY war! wherever you came from, Fogel, you are not an American, and I prefer Mexican immigrants by far. they Stand With Me on American issues and do not require me to Stand With Mexico to kill people.
attacking Iran to stop its acquisition of nuclear facilities is a faulty strategy anyway. Iraq is now getting more support for its nuclear ambitions than before we invaded.
oh, NO, Israel is NOT friend or family to Americans in general, and NO, the American government does NOT coddle Israel and condone the ethnic cleansing because Americans just feel warm and fuzzy about it. our politicians do NOT sit there thinking, 'boy this next foreign policy move we are about to make is incredibly stupid, but Americans must WANT me to'! right.....
Americans in general do NOT support the ethnic cleansing, the settlements, the war against the entire Palestinian population, the wars we are now involved in, or the wars to come. all of this only makes our lives WORSE. nor do those of us who have been over there have any equally boneheaded notions that Israelis think of us as "friends" or "family"!!!
that's just self-delusion!
thanks for the post - Kiera Feldman's full article is one of the best things I've read in a long time! the provoked discussion is none too soon - everyone seems to agree that the 1% funds "Birthright" but that doesn't mean that everyone attending it is 1%. it also doesn't mean that high-achievers aren't the ones who succeeded in breaking the blockade of Gaza in 2008 (and stayed to do so much more), or people like Cecilie Surasky, (and on and on), and certainly Kiera Feldman! unless you accept the 1% definition of achievement without a thought to what the 99% wants to achieve...
but the broader picture to some outside the Jewish community is the ominous ending to Feldman's article when the police threaten the activists. does anyone doubt that the iron heel would think twice about crushing Jews along with Muslims if they are not in the 1%? the line is becoming clearer every day.
one more thing (sorry) - Sieradski and OWS may not be ready to hear "Free Palestine", but apparently other "occupies" are. so, he calls them "dick"s? the anti-war movement went through this exact exercise in the past decade, and "Free Palestine" is absolutely part of "anti-war" in the US. so, if anti-war gets mixed up in the occupy movement, it won't be excluded.
the source of the problem, as always, is that Israel's behavior (and the US too) is so bad that we cannot condone it, and people like Sieradski who DO condone it can't erase the truth, so they have to censor it. he's desperate.
thanks for posting this article - it's enlightening to hear Sieradski's explanation for censoring a tweet in support of the flotilla - which backfired on him and is probably much bigger news than the tweet itself.
Sieradski & friends want to control this, they say, because it will shred OWS and make it hard for him to organize more Jewish organizations to back OWS. but people didn't suddenly start this movement because organizers suddenly got better at it. they are out there physically 24/7 because they are harmed, homeless, and angry, and the action unites us all (homeless or not) through our humanity.
Sieradski's argument that aid to Israel is a mere tiny bit completely neglects the immense effects Americans are feeling from being on the wrong side of a major ethnic cleansing. that "tiny" aid (which Sieradski sinisterly says benefits us!) produces more tear-gas canisters in our faces than the Oakland Police, more embarrassing UN meetings, more shame, more censored children's art exhibits, more convicted-for-free-speech university students, more threats to our very livelihoods (as in the UCB senators pressured by AIPAC and its ilk), an effective congressional zionist caucus (meaning pro-likud) of about 95% of all of congress... and we feel we are limited in our voting power against the lobby. just like OWS issues.
Sieradski may not be proud of how many ISM volunteers are Jewish, but we Americans are proud of those on the flotilla willing to stand up to the IDF and the illegal siege. and if you're Irish - you can hold your head up! Sieradski can't win by modifying the organic voice of OWS in order to "attract" more "mainstream" organizations, and his efforts would be much better utilized campaigning against Israel's blockade instead. it would make the whole tweet thing a moot point.