Total number of comments: 159 (since 2011-11-09 19:38:12)
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fulovit says: "we absorbed millions of refugees from different cultures".
how many Syrian refugees? how many Iraqi? I hear neighboring countries are overflowing with millions of refugees, not to mention the Palestinian refugees from Palestine.
how is Israel doing on that refugee thing? I hear they are still creating more every day. I hear that they don't even want to talk about taking back any that they created.
Keith, you have morals! nothing unpopular about that.
the money argument does resonate with people of a different moral character. in fact, I'm old enough to remember a time when repulicans would whine about support for Israel being one of those liberal democrat diseases. more recently, cutting aid to Israel ranked high among that crowd in reasons to support Ron Paul.
it is not negligible at all, especially among those who think we spend too much on food stamps.
p.s. every time an American whines about having to pay taxes for other people's health care, they should be told how many Israelis get health care and how much tax Americans pay that foreign country.
now that Saudi Arabia is Israel's best friend, why don't they take over the child support payments?
seriously, I'd love to see Americans demanding that, and I'd love to see it happen.
the key thing may be that Iran is telling US/Israel that it isn't likely to physcially defend the Palestinians. Syria's defenses are being destroyed, and if Iran decides that Palestinians aren't worth taking sides over, then Iran has very little to quarrel over and everything to gain by joining the fold.
this would mean that the power balance is still heavily the US.
exactly. if Israel doesn't want to be afraid of getting "blown up", it could
1) hide behind the empire US and keep it fighting enormous wars, or
2) STOP threatening other countries, STOP ethnic cleansing Palestinians, STOP doing so many rotten things to other countries, including the US
most other countries of a few million people watch their behavior when they care about making friends with bigger countries. it isn't that much to ask. so, Israel's being afraid of getting "blown up" is NOT an excuse for the US to blow up Iran or Syria. it's an excuse for Israel to behave itself. IT'S TIME TO GET THAT STRAIGHT.
as for the Nakba-denier-Hasbara comment near the top of the thread, I always ignore those, but here's something the propagandists might consider: the US public opinion on zionism is overwhelmingly neutral at best, and contrary to how the media projects a zionist view of the planet, most people in the US have a pretty good idea of why congress sucks donkey dick on national TV for Israel and why US citizens don't want to send any more of its children to war in the middle east for it. you will not hear this in the NY Times, but it goes on daily around the kitchen tables. too bad for Israel.
this is not a shift in power, and Israel's interest is the rate of ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
just visited Prof. Klein's website. it is thorough and concise and puts the reality on a web page. if that makes you uncomfortable, it is because ethnic cleansings are not nicey-nice or pretty to look at. we HAVE to look and feel bad because here in the US, we are directly causing it to go on every day.
the AMCHA letter that that threatens to slander/defame CSU as condoning and being directly responsible for the spread of anti-semitism and threatens to harm its income is legally called slander and defamation. any financial harm from it is valid proof in court.
on a separate note, it is hilarious every time zionists compare themselves to Saudi Arabia to feel better about apartheid. the first time a zionist friend showed me the pic of a SA road split with a sign for muslims and non-muslims, that was my first clue that zionism really is racism. it is especially funny now that Israel comes out and says that it has so much in common with Saudi Arabia. Professor Klein's opinion is not over the top of anything except narrow minds.
stupid question because the heroic answer in any country is yes, and probably none of the guy's friends are going to die. as seafoid points out, it is Palestinians doing the dying. stupid question. Millions in the middle east are dying due to what we are doing, and Phil is asking people how much they love a Jewish state?
what the hell?
sounds a bit too romantic.
pay attention to what happens to the Palestinians. the ethnic cleansing is not slowing down. Israel does not care if Obama snuggles up with anyone as long as they agree on the one thing Israel wants. watch out.
Weiss is easy to please. Obama supports the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians 100%.
it's called ethnic cleansing. the US is 100% responsible for it.
the US is ALQuaeda's airforce? no, it is Israel's airforce, army, navy, etc.
seriously? who cares.
I'm sure there's something better to write about!
god, if there were something better written about, I wouldn't be commenting on this...
"...we’re the first to publish the detailed scheme, an the first to put the pieces together that the new village is intended as a reservation."
the Palestinians, particularly the Bedouins, must surely have put the pieces together long ago!
"How do we restore our nation when it is so overcome by the forces of evil?"
do you define "evil forces" as people who assassinate and kill, or as people who commit evil acts with the excuse that they fear those running around with guns?
in any case, doesn't it seem IRONIC to say that you MUST order drone strike assassinations of sixteen-year-old American citizens BECAUSE you are AFRAID of the CIA doing that to you?
furthermore, if you BELIEVE Obama's words that "I had to because...", then you are suggesting that this is the only time he is telling the truth!!!
wow. that discredits McGovern a bit considering his insider experience.
all capitulations by Obama since he was born were to the elite class, and his biggest fear was being left out of the 0.1%.
put this in perspective: the CIA drone strikes human beings without shame, and the US enters into MORE conflicts for the gain of Obama's club, and we're supposed to swallow a pity story that he has to cuddle up with the whole bank/weapons/austerity/fascist mess because they might get mad at him if he doesn't?
watch out for religious fervor for political parties.
p.s. Obama is no MLK. did I need to say that??
wow, and they fork over their credit cards? we were not very imaginative prank phone callers when I was a kid. :-)
wow, her marriage covers BOTH religions!
being "christian" probably contributed to Chelsea's patriotic defending of US wars when she was in school in the UK where people were vocally anti-US over it.
now BOTH the religions of the world are going to "solve social problems together"!
time to invest in weapons manufacturers.
p.s. by the way, the Shashi article goes to great lengths to identify and shout "racist!", which seems obsessive, and maybe driven by deep personal doubts.
Shasha's article supports its claims by linking to his own works rather than Massad's, so it is more emotional rant than Massad's article which is more informational.
Massad aside, what Shasha is talking about seems way worse in the Christian world than in the Jewish one! Most WHITE and privileged Euro-Christians have NO IDEA that Arab Christians even EXIST, in spite of all their bible-study with Palestinian cities all over them!
I have helped to sell Palestinian crafts at Catholic churces in the US, and while the congregations LOVED buying gifts made in Bethlehem, a priest took me aside one day, quietly and embarrassed, to verify that our "profits" were going to Catholics in Palestine....
Meanwhile, in Jerusalem, a handful of different Christian churches share the keys to the most sacred sites in the Old City which is in itself an act of rebellion. Israel is doing all it can to shrink their presence, and ignorant white American Catholic priests are worried that some of "their" money might go into the hands of the "wrong" Christians! Personally, I couldn't care less, and the earth is 4.5 billion years old, and humans evolved over millions of years, so Jerusalem is just another Disneyland in my opinion!
And, meanwhile again, little beggar children in the streets of Bethlehem will try to chase the few tourists they see while Palestinian police chase the little children - a perfect example of colonial control with our own tax dollars and of our culture of abusive domination all the way down the ladder. After thousands of years, who can expect a religion to stay the same? I believe that Christianity will lose all connections to where it began and simply evolve into the familiar old model of the privileged stuffing themselves with cream puffs while being served by masses of lesser people who they believe their god smiles upon for their unending suffering.
So, Ashkenazi/Sephardic Jews may have similar issues, but it really doesn't look like more than a little every-day racism to me. Extermination of Palestinians overshadows it. It's like worrying about the different European cultures over US history while erasing indigenous altogether and enslaving Blacks. (me? I'm white privileged Euro, though darker, and mostly Gypsy!)
a melting pot? isn't that a one-state solution?
if Americans want military action, don't they know they can sign up to be "part of that" for their own country?
I don't think the girl really meant she wanted any actual military action.
Maimon's response is that Israel's superior "democracy" allows victims to express their opinions while they are being ethnically cleansed... what a riot!
The other responses all reduce to claims of Israel's greatness because of an Intel chip and they are actually trying to ERASE the human being Stephen Hawking (!)
to hide their guilt from themselves...
"Keller’s column - 'The I-Can’t-Believe-I’m-a-Hawk Club' where he came out for the Iraq war in 2003 - is a classic."
looks like a sheep. smells like a sheep. sounds like a sheep. but he thinks he can fly?
(they must make drone keyboards for cloven hooves.)
James Canning - I'm only quoting the Israeli official on "control of American politics" and assuming he calls it "conspiracy" because he denies it. Now the embassy will get busy pressuring TV, which only adds to the existing list of examples Americans already have to base theories on. The swift reaction to the (unaired) Saturday Night Live skit was like putting the cherry on top of the dessert. The whole thing was delicious.
Justpassingby says it best: "Quite ironic"!
the Israeli official says (in ynet) that the TV depiction of the lobby/etc is what "justifies all conspiracy theories about the Israeli and Jewish conrol of American politics".
no, it's the reaction by the Israeli embassy and the actions of the lobby and the congressional trips to Israel and the lack of "daylight between us" and the standing ovations (erections!) to a foreign leader and the promising of another war and on and on.... it's not the TV depictions of it.
it may be progressive for NPR to do a segment on "mapping", but it didn't do much to chip away at the average American misperception that Palestinians are trying to take something away from the Israelis rather than the other way around.
The general context was the same: Palestinians protest, throw rocks, get killed. We don't know why or whose land they are doing it on. Israel is the nice policeman (white) trying to avoid the terrorism/intifada/jihad (muslim). I know lots of people who listen to this stuff and still don't know that "settler" refers to the Israelis. When NPR is on in my car, I have to keep interrupting with corrections to the context so my passengers aren't misled. It gets old.
And I'm completely serious that if ThisAmericanLife groupies think that questioning how we feel about "mapping" is so deep and thought-provoking, especially without proper context, then they need to be able to imagine doing it here.
Put it this way: I never imagined my country torturing people like evil South American dictators did to nuns. I never imagined my country occupying middle eastern countries and shooting families at checkpoints. I never imagined my country fearing muslims. I never imagined my country being a target for random bombings. But now I know that whatever I see Israel doing, it's coming here.
thank you, Henry. I was a little put off by Glass' intro to the segment explaining that it's no surprise that people would disagree about the photos because they are from "a part of the world where people disagree about how to interpret so, so many things". I expected the segment to include a Palestinian viewpoint, but Updike only presented two very slightly different versions from IDF soldiers! (neither of which explained that Palestinians protesting on their own land were being abducted and killed by the IDF.) I was so bummed.
But more than that, I was stunned by the explanation that "mapping" is probably successfully keeping violence against Israelis down. After the two shows on the violence suffered by high school kids in the southside of Chicago ("Harper High School" etc), would Updike and Glass consider "mapping" to solve things there?
Can you imagine that?? If it works for Israelis, why not here?? How can it not sound sick and twisted to Updike? Maybe people in THIS part of the world disagree more about how to interpret things than they do in the middle east??
And today in the news, there is an FBI sting that effectively eliminates a Muslim kid from Chicago by hooking him into joining fighters in Syria... is this the FBI's form of "mapping"?
it is false that engineering in the bay area has such a blacklist! and, believe me, I know it!
I also think it is bad for people to keep repeating that because some will believe it, and then it may affect behavior. but it is NOT true, and nobody should fear it.
glad that susan1 feels intimated by the free speech of others. and yes, there are two sides. whenever an uninformed American says to me, "I thought the settlers were the Palestinians", I LOVE giving them the "other side". it's one of my favorite sports, and I'm not intimidated by my government or susan1's - even on campus!
Israel says it is improving the conditions of its illegal detention of occupied minors? what, better torture techniques? but what human rights org could read that with a straight face when Israel won't give them ANY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS such as not being arrested by foreign soldiers, the right to live on their own land, the right to vote in the system that the settlers do which apparently governs them all... Israel's embassy officials are paid to lie, of course.
wow, the ultimate "jew vs jew" on Palestine! it's Israeli vs Israeli!
in the stupid piece on thedailybeast, Mr Reut calls Dalit "my interlocutor" and "my traveling companion". she is neither! all she did was sit in her assigned seat on an airplane and endure his company. but she engaged him and wrote about it!
she rocks. all he did was spout the crap we already hear: divestment is anti-two-state. (who cares?) divestment is anti-"israel" (the democraticandjewishstate whatever that means....) who cares?
so, ... is that all? Mr Reut who develops the state of the art in Israel propaganda can only spout the same old? that's all? there will be no one state because it isn't Jewish and democratic, and there will be no two state because BDS and the world won't stand for several million people paying taxes and not voting and being ethnically cleansed (it's called apartheid to say the least)?
forgot to mention: Israeli deaths are published in the press MANY times more often than Palestinian deaths (many of which aren't even covered at all).
a former AIPAC employee told me all about how they had a goal of placing a "positive" story about Israel EVERY DAY in major newspapers. (he even told me how.) I did some newspaper research myself, and I saw it: the international news section always had the bad news with the latest violence, but there was ALWAYS a dumb piece about some useless topic about Israel too. always.
I'll bet it's basically the same thing with the NPR coverage of Jews. I always assumed it was.
big deal, so maybe the judge would make Silverman buy whatsername some new chalk and pay for her doctor bill.
how is this conflated with rocketing people's offspring in Sderot? NPR reported today that it is the second breaking of the cease-fire by Hamas! (then they said some other group claimed responsibility, huh?) if Israel doesn't want a broken cease-fire, then they should stop killing and maiming and shooting at Palestinians. when will Israelis stop the REAL brutality? do parents of Sderot residents ever cringe at the shooting of a Palestinian during a cease-fire? I only see them gloating over it, just like they gloat over what they did to Tristan Anderson and Rachel Corrie (etc).
p.s. get some PERSPECTIVE here, guys: we're talking about starting another war with all the horror that entails at the behest of zionists, and the ONLY strategy they have for countering our RESISTANCE to ETHNIC CLEANSING IN OUR NAME is to try to pick fights at peaceful demonstrations. that's all they have. don't get sidetracked by it. buy the girl some chalk and keep your head up.
schools need no excuse to nix that ad! what if they allowed the exact same thing with "Jewish" instead of "Islamic"? they'd be sued. imagine: "Jewish Apartheid Week" on campus, complete with "expert" speakers on judaism!!
but the funniest part is that the Horowitz ad and web page are missing the biggest example of oppressive sharia law, Saudi Arabia, and the US is shipping record-breaking amounts of weapons there. where's Horowitz's protest signs, "STOP ARMING SAUDI ARABIA" and "DON'T LET SAUDI ARABIA GET NUKES"?
gee, that might be too consistent with "STOP FUNDING ISRAELI APARTHEID".
I'm sure their "expert" speakers will ALL agree that US military intervention in Iran is called for, however US military intervention seems to be overturning secular governments in favor of sectarian civil wars and fundamentalists everywhere.... hmmmm. Islamophobe week sounds like a riot. wish I were there!
the fists in the logo are upside-down, though they do look clenched!
the funny thing is, if you travel to the West Bank and Israel to see Christian sites or whatever, the Israelis treat you like you're dirt, NOTHING like that logo! it is such a lie.
"do Americans want any part of what they're selling?"
I don't think they can sell Americans a war on Iran. Americans seem complacent about doling out $billions (while Israelis claim victory through superiority instead), but Americans are not going to take another war in a country the size of Iran without getting even more curious about middle east affairs.
by the way, the hasbara polls showing "American support for Israel" only say that the public has no reason to want harm to come to any country dominated by white folks. you could easily produce polls like that about American support for just about anywhere. it does not mean Americans will gladly join the military to fight for someone else's ethnic cleansing, and if they knew it, we wouldn't be funding it, either.
the logo is such a lie.
I had the same reaction as Austin Branion when I read the Economist article.
"Israeli Jews will not do that" (that is concede one-man-one-vote as South African whites did) is immediately followed by "Even if the Palestinians were remarkably tolerant—and that is questionable...".
CLEARLY white people own the concession of voting rights over others! Palestinians who object to their apartheid are "intolerant"? there is NOTHING "remarkably tolerant" about Israeli Jews preventing Palestinians from voting (among other things), and yet, the Economist ASSUMES the reader understands that it is a DIFFERENT subject to talk about Palestinians giving Jews the vote. and the Economist never wondered why the South African Blacks should bother giving those remarkably INTOLERANT whites the vote!
McConnell uses "totalitarianism" to describe the reaction of the adults, not the letter from the student. I agree with McConnell after seeing MANY cowardly reactions by adults who don't even know anything about the subject, including the adults who told UCB senators that their careers would be at stake it they voted in favor of BDS.
I know people in their 60's who still think that they'll get audited by Homeland Security if their foundation funds reach certain anti-zionist nonprofits, and I even met a guy selling ISM wares who said he was afraid to put a "free Palestine" bumper sticker on his car because he thought it would get vandalized! and in San Diego you have your congressmen urging your administration NOT to allow BDS on campus.
McConnell is only wrong in that it isn't just a "whiff" of totalitarianism. it is the very definition. the good news is that among the people I've seen whose actions are controlled by fears of zionist power without knowing anything about the issues, nearly ALL of them are fascinated to learn the truth.
the ynet article is a must-read. Oren says they're working on a PR stunt to place a cover photo in a "number of US newspapers" to proclaim that a famous photo of an infant killed in Gaza last November was killed by Hamas ("determined by the UN") rather than Israel. Oren says that Israel is the victim of "the other side" which cleverly uses the media to make it look like Israel massacred defenseless Palestinians in cold blood while it was really that Israel was massacred by Hamas rockets and did nothing but offer "peace". Oren whines, "what are we to do?" because the photo and the truth (that Israel killed the baby) hurt his hasbara efforts, so he has to completely reverse the story and turn an entire orgy of murder and terror by Israel upside down and cry about being the victim of the press - what else is he to do?
if it isn't bad enough PR simply to look at what Israel DOES to the Palestinians, placing cover photos in US papers in an attempt to reverse the image of the culprit through lying merely proves that Oren is way more evil than anyone knew.
there is nothing legitimate about an Israel that will do that.
Congressman Vargas tells San Diego residents what to do and think because he's their "representative"? I see. the "greatest democracy" in the middle east is the one whose citizens tell OUR congress what to do and think and then our congress tells US what to do and think... !
that's not democracy. I hope someone gives him crap for that.
congress really does represent Israel and not us. someday we'll learn not to vote for them.
jews who have Israeli citizenship are often denied entry because of their activism. Shapiro could be denied even if he had it. so it means that Israel is NOT the safe haven for Jews. it is only a place for zionism.
the irony of it is that the people who do the best of God's work are Israel's enemies, Jewish or not. that is NOT the "covenant" they were offered by God to re-take "Israel" (if that is the ultimate excuse). it is THE OPPOSITE.
so many of the BEST people are denied entry with (or without) Israeli citizenship.
there you have it.
who does Hillel want to 'dialogue' with?
American students deserve to know the facts FIRST if anyone wants to 'dialogue'.
and I agree wholeheartedly with the demand for showing 'Both Sides':
graphs should be made available showing total Palestinian homes bulldozed by Israel alongside total Israeli homes bulldozed by the PA, total Palestinians (& Americans) killed by bulldozers driven by Israel alongside total Israelis killed by bulldozers driven by the PA, etc.
Hillel can make a giant bar graph for the IDF soldier that was crushed by a wall during one of their own operations against Palestinians about ten years ago.
so many pictures American students should see! the scale of what's going on is so much easier to understand when "Both Sides" are graphed and mapped.
and the big one showing how much money Americans give to the IDF and what they do with it compared to US aid to Palestine.
when Hillel wants "Balance" they can face up to the honest charts of deaths where each Palestinian gets counted AS MUCH as each Israeli and then BALANCE the numbers by STOPPING the destruction and killing, not by hiding the numbers.
Americans aren't getting 'Both Sides' yet, but hopefully SJP's are helping to fix that. then we can 'Dialogue' about Americans role in the ethnic cleansing and get out of it.
someday, displaying your love for occupation and ethnic cleansing around Main Street USA will cost you 100% of your US military "aid".
put that one on t-shirts for DC restaurants.
yeah, and IDF doesn't torture anyone to death, either.
(or steal or murder civilians or brag about it or lie about it or..)
Geller asks the right question: "How has our culture so degenerated as to make it virtually inconceivable that our most renowned entertainers would stand with [Israel]?"
she may not live long enough for the dots to connect in her black-hole-of-a-brain, but the world knows the answer, and the solution is BDS!
hophmi: funny thing, there's a much longer history of Jews bombing Palestinians, and yes, it would be better if the US provided no financial services at all!
(am I allowed to say this on this website?)
hey, why not. the settler and his rubbish arrived with all their weapons. maybe the jewish messiah comes with nuclear weapons and billions of US dollars.
you're very confused. nobody threw anyone out of the room.
the question is, if zionists think they can sue the UC's under Title VI for "inimidation" by groups like SJP for demonstrating against the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, then they are huge hypocrites. you should read about those cases, they are nuts.
the IDF are employed to implement a violent ethnic cleansing. they are not exactly a community service group! parading them to an event like that is clearly meant to intimidate people working for the rights of Palestinians.
Americans may be typically ill-informed and apathetic, but we're not typically sociopaths! BDS is an apple pie concept. US aid to Israel is not.
how is it not pure intimidation for IDF soldiers to show up at an event featuring their victims?
can't the new legislation designed to protect zionism on campus be used to protect people who are ACTUALLY being intimidated?
what if one of the guests or speakers had lost family members and friends at the hands of the IDF, and maybe even the same individual from StandWithUS? that is intentional intimidation.
fyi, Palestinians ARE Israelis and DO fund zionist propaganda. I'd say they pay the highest price for it! and I'm tickled that you suggest that Israeli funds must all be zionist.
however, not only do Palestinians fund zionist movies, TV, and pieces like the NPR one, but they also fund the morons who spend their days putting up posts like yours on website comment sections like this one.
your post is adorable, in fact, and I'm sure the manual on "how to respond to Five-Broken-Cameras" is a riot.
this part is hilarious:
"Wiesenfeld expressed disappointment that what went on at the University of California, Irvine--a reference to the disruption by student activists of Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren--has now come to Brooklyn College. 'To now see this type of degradation is heartbreaking,' he said."
heartbreaking! Students For Justice In Palestine get taken to court and expelled any time anyone does anything to protest or disrupt an event related to Israel. maybe the zionists should simplify Title VI and just be more direct about it: "anything that happens on campus, just punish SJP". Wiesenfeld is laughing, not heartbroken!
I suppose it's anti-semitic to say that Israel controls Saturday Night Live.
The next skit should parody Foxman.
I hope that students keep in mind that although the intimidation is real, the truth is that being openly anti-zionist does not hurt your career or your education here. Being dark-skinned is way worse! But being anti-zionist does not limit your success in the Bay Area. I know this!
This is not just a reason for Palestinians to have less fear, but a huge reason why white folks need to step up and join those protests and join SJP. Please do!
I'm not getting rich off invasions of Iraq or Afghanistan or Mali myself, but I see the amassing of weapons and hoarding of land/resources/labor and the pigs at the top exactly as Hostage describes the zionist project: "get rich quick" (or colonizing). It looks clear to me.
As for the main topic of this post, Americans are no benchmark for what "liberal" means. People tell me they are liberal and proudly voted for Obama, but I don't actually see any liberals anywhere here.
Maybe I just didn't know what it means, in which case, "liberal zionist" makes perfect sense.
this means that Israel intends to inflict worse terrorist crimes on defenseless people and (of course) blame it on them.
does that mean Greta (Wright, Blankfort, etc) can come back after their spankings and time in the penalty box?
who exactly writes these laws, anyway? when is the manual coming out that defines anti-semitic behavior?
and can you tell us how you managed to eradicate all bigotry from yourself?
Robbins: "we need eachother" ... but "it has to be eradicated". you're going to eradicate Berlin and Wright and Atzmon? for "it"?
I may be "it" too, so I'm not needed. who's left?
meanwhile, I'm sure lots of decent activists also run facebook groups full of card-carrying fascist Democrats that defend some very very bad people and probably even have bumperstickers that say you should vote for them.
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