Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 1124 (since 2009-07-31 16:25:09)


I grew up with the conventional wisdom believing that the Israelis were the "white hats" and that the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims were the "black hats." After 9/11, I wanted to know more about the conflict in the ME. I came to the realization that the narrative was totally one-sided. I largely credit many outstanding Jewish voices (my close friend Bernie the Attorney for one) for opening my eyes. I see on a daily basis the efforts by Zionists and their stooges to dismiss truth-tellers in the most reprehensible manner, up to and including threats of violence. Truth needs no army of thugs to establish it; only lies need enforcers.


Showing comments 300 - 201

  • Liberal American Jews negotiate away the right of return
    • That "Witty-lator" of yours seems quite a precise instrument. I think it deserves some sort of catchphrase akin to Sadly No's "always trust the shorter." (see: link to

      Maybe the descriptor of "distilled Witty-lations" ("Witty-lations distilled"?).

  • 'Please continue to be with us' --a Palestinian's letter to int'l supporters
    • Hear, hear.

      As an atheist myself, I learned to see it not as a religious conflict per se, but as an issue of justice. Furthermore, one's religiosity is not an accurate predictor of where one stands in the support of equal justice for all.

  • US women's stunning goal shatters prejudice
    • Women in sports has changed in such a positive way over the decades.

      True, and yet sadly, I often hear or read all the grumbling about how Title IX hurts the collegiate athletic programs for men.

  • Rightwing militias steal land in occupied territories, with support of Israeli gov't
    • Is this the type "guardian" Chuck Schumer fancies himself?

      Guess he doesn't care about any negative connotations from his "Israel über alles" rhetoric.

  • Irish Ship to Gaza: Sabotage of M.V. Saoirse is 'an act of international terrorism'
  • Presidential
  • Senate unanimously opposes Palestinian push for statehood (AIPAC wants you to know)
  • A great miracle is happening there
  • Libidinous pro-choice aide who toiled for rightwing Republicans admits her motivation came down to one issue
  • Irish flotilla ship will not sail to Gaza due to extensive sabotage
  • Latest libel: flotilla passengers seek 'to kill soldiers'
    • This is an excellent point since even sites such as Mondoweiss are labeled as "hate sites" by hardcore Z-teamers but if you point out their fringe sites (that are usually thought of and accepted as "mainstream" anyway), they'll just be dismissed as inconsequential...but they're still whipping up that victim fervor.

  • Sabotage on the Aegean: Propeller mysteriously cut on flotilla ship
    • I apologize collectively for the group, particularly considering Israel, never, ever, EVER, makes accusations against anyone else without a shred of evidence (or even takes lethal action against others without obtaining necessary evidence first).

      Typically, the most moral army in the world.


  • Israel Law Center behind harassment of flotilla funded by homophobic End Timer Pastor John Hagee
  • 'Gaza, We Are Coming': Despite pressure and threats of violence, flotilla will sail
  • Of course the Flotilla is a political provocation
    • Oh, I forgot that Hamas won’t ever let them choose another government

      Will that even matter in the long run? Israel is killing off anyone who might want to vote for someone who objects to killing them off.

    • This flotilla is an unwitting enabling of Hamas.

      Israel and Fatah enabled Hamas by their wretched treatment of Gazans.

      The region's "only democracy"[tm] was uncomfortable with someone else exercising their own democratic will, and will continue to use starvation, deprivation, high-explosives, and white phosphorus to gently nudge them back into the fold.

  • Help Mondoweiss stay afloat with a voluntary subscription
    • Fair enough, Donald.

      On Zionist sites, I usually get "flagged" and my comments removed. If I thought my comments were generating funds for something I was opposed to, I might reconsider the volume or tone of my contributions to the comments section.

      I've never thought of actual replies as bullying as long as my comments remained because I consider it a sign of respect to speak openly and honestly to another human being.

    • For the record I think whatever you come up with is fine. What I think would also be fun would be a "special" star for the contrarians that could be attached by someone donating in their name.

      The scenario would be after I've made a donation that gets a star for my name, I could also donate money to affix a "troll star?" to someone else's name as my way of combating the hasbara-laden content of their spew.

      I could imagine that affixing multiple "troll stars" to those posters that just seems to trot out the same tired old arguments and have a particularly high "pest quotient" could generate funds in manner fun, effective, and informative.

    • Curiously, I often pick up a copy of the LA Jewish Journal (a petty webmaster - now gone - banned my IP's so I can hardly find a "clean" site to post from online, let alone read articles online) and there's page after page of charities and donation listings that make a very big deal of what level donor you are and feature the highest ones prominently. Seems there's very, very, few there making their donations anonymously.

      Is this also a "dumb idea" and are they guilty of a "class system" too?

      Just curious.

  • Site news: Introducing Mondoweiss's new home
  • Atzmon and Jewish identity
    • You're most welcome, Gilad...and thank you Citizen for the Maslow's pyramid reference. I was totally unfamiliar with it. Very interesting, indeed (and I agree fully with your characterization btw).

    • I love Gilad Atzmon and from warm correspondences with him, consider him a true friend and teacher from whom I have learned much.

      A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

  • Same day as Bahraini blogger's brave appearance at Netroots, State Department shifts its line
    • “If you give us the cargo, we’ll get it into Gaza.”

      If the Israelis were allowing sufficient goods in Gaza (let alone ceasing the abuse of the Gazans), the flotilla would not be needed in the first place.

  • Britain’s denial of democracy and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine
  • 'Don't Play in Tel Aviv! Apartheid is Not Punk Rock!': An Open Letter to Jello Biafra and the Guantanamo School of Medicine
  • A family in Gaza struggles to rebuild following repeated Israeli attacks
    • Thanks Sumud for providing witness.

      Every post that countered their clueless assertions got promptly "disappeared." The blog owner say he doesn't do gatekeeping, but that posts that the readers flag get blocked. The message says "flagged for review", but nothing seems to return from the review graveyard.

      I see that vile and ignorant mindset and imagine that same attitude holding an assault rifle at an Israeli checkpoint.

    • Thank you, Mooser for a timely reposting of this link.

      I kept wondering why this line of "argument" found here was so depressingly familiar.

      link to

    • Great excerpt, seafoid. I see the picture of those kids and the story of them losing their mother (my father was a widower, my mom died before I turned 2) and the bile rises in my throat as I think of the standard Zionist memes ("future terrorists", "cockroaches in a bottle", etc.)

      [heavy sigh]

  • Bahraini blogger on State Dep't tour says Hillary Clinton 'betrayed' and 'crushed' Bahrain democracy movement
  • UN: As Gaza siege enters its fifth year, unemployment stands at 45%
    • I agree. In contrast the Palestinian reaction is downright subdued.

      Any time they have an opportunity for a little economic stability, the Israellis are sure to crush it. Think of how many Gazans could be employed in the natural gas industry (which is why the Israelis are bound to steal that resource as well).

  • In Gaza, young Palestinians lead a global movement
  • Israel’s harassment of US-Mexico border human rights activist raises many questions
    • Setting up an "apartheid wall" display locally (the quotes used in the blog entry calling it part of a "UCI hate week") - see: link to - still gets couched in pure Orwellian terms.

      "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
      "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
      "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."
      (Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)

  • 1919 Hitler letter reveals seeds of ethnic cleansing
    • Very enjoyable belly laughs from this tangent. Reminds me a bit of that notion, "I'm not a Jew, I'm Jew-ish."

    • The world is different. The displacement of Palestinians is not going unnoticed, and there is no possibility of genocidal efforts on the part of Israel, even with Israel Beitanhu.

      I'm sure the Palestinians are comforted by your reassurances.

      Btw, whose definition of "genocide" are we using?

  • More bollocks from David Mamet
    • As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives.

      The Palestinians will at least get a set of steak knives for their trouble, no?

  • 'Is everybody doing it?'
    • I am still wondering what's the difference between talking on the cell phone while driving, and having a conversation with another person in the vehicle. Both are a distraction, yet only one is generally considered improper. It used to be the fact that minutes were so expensive, that one's complete focus was getting the message through as quickly and completely as possible. Now with unlimited minutes, a cell conversation can be as unhurried as a normal one. When driving duties takes priority, I toss the cell down and say "hold on" friends either get it or they don't. Either way, the driving comes first.

  • Newt Gingrich lauds ‘Jerusalem Day’ extremists
    • No campaign is truly dead as long as it can make hay by pandering to the AIPAC crowd.

      Conversely, if you slight them too blatantly, it's all over for you politically.

  • Shareholders to Caterpillar: 'our product has become Israel’s weapon of choice for ethnic cleansing and potentially even war crimes'
    • Every time I read a story along these lines the same thought occurs. If the party being victimized in this manner anywhere in the world was Jews, the hue and cry would be that this was the most heinous crime imaginable and immediate action would be called for to put a stop to it.

      Instead, because it is ‘only’ Palestinians, it is not meant to evoke much concern as, per the official narrative, they either ‘deserved’ it or brought it upon themselves.

      I can’t stress this point made by Fredy Perlman enough.

      Escape from death in a gas chamber or a Pogrom, or incarceration in a concentration camp, may give a thoughtful and capable writer, Solzhenitsyn for example, profound insights into many of the central elements of contemporary existence, but such an experience does not, in itself, make Solzhenitsyn a thinker, a writer, or even a critic of concentration camps; it does not, in itself, confer any special powers. In another person the experience might lie dormant as a potentiality, or remain forever meaningless, or it might contribute to making the person an ogre. In short, the experience is an indelible part of the individual’s past but it does not determine his future; the individual is free to choose his future; he is even free to choose to abolish his freedom, in which case he chooses in bad faith and is a Salaud (J.P. Sartre’s precise philosophical term for a person who makes such a choice [The usual English translation is ‘Bastard’]).

      From: link to

  • 'NYT' characterizes '48 ethnic cleansing as 'evacuation'
    • And don't forget how the Nakba is dismissed as ancient history and water under the bridge. Imagine the Holocaust being given a similar brusque dismissal. Heads would explode.

  • Imagine Wasserman Schultz talking about the 'demographic' threat to Arizona
  • Restrooms and sanitation at Umm-Al-Kheir (a story for Shavuot)
    • The story of the ‘shared house’ is so inanely, insanely another ‘legal’ way for occupiers to get their foot in the door.

      Reminds me of this methodology to encroach upon and usurp territory. Nothing much has changed, no?

      From: link to

      In an interview that created a stir in Israel after its belated publication, Defense Minister Moshe Dayan declared:

      I know how at least 80 percent of all of the incidents there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's speak about 80 percent. It would go like this: we would send a tractor to plow in the demilitarized area, and we would know ahead of time that the Syrians would start shooting. If they did not start shooting, we would inform the tractor to progress farther, until the Syrians, in the end, would get nervous and would shoot. And then we would use guns, and later, even the air force, and that is how it went. We thought that we could change the lines of the cease-fire accords by military actions that were less than a war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.

      It was just such a staged provocation - an Israeli tractor plowing through a disputed field despite Syrian pleas for compromise - that sparked the April 1967 aerial battle. In Oren's reckoning, however, the battle ensued after a pattern of "Syrian provocation" (SDW: p. 46).

    • Thank you for the link to the photo essay. The quiet dignity of the residents was humbling. The shameless nature of the so-called "settlers" was galling. The "haves" complaining that the "have-nots" are a impediment to their quality of life is nothing but obscene.

      I will find a way even in these tough economic times to get some additional funds to the "Villages Group". It is people blind to the simple humanity of the residents who can think only in terms of 'terrorist' and all the related memes that allow the willfully ignorant to ignore their plight, while at the same time excusing or condoning every Israeli Zionist outrage.

      As far as the religious context, particularly as an atheist, I see the same hypocrisy in the Yom Kippur rituals (casting away of misdeeds - day of atonement) where no change in behavior ever really takes place. It is reminiscent of how I heard xian services often described (i.e. asking forgiveness on Sunday for the sins you'll commit on Monday).

  • Siegman says Obama must take on the Israel lobby, and Jews will back him (will they?)
    • I think that's a valid observation. From my experience, anyone accepting the mantle of "Jew" (or labeled from the outside) is then co-opted into the borg with designated spokesholes claiming to speak for all (the) Jews. The default position is whatever the Z-team decides should be their position.

      It's for this reason specifically that my freind Bernie the Attorney renounced his Jewishness (born of a Jewish mother and xian father - he's an atheist like I am). He was tired of having his support added implicitly to those espousing apartheid merely by way of heritage.

    • I think it's less a question of "will the Jews back him?" but rather what will resonate in the echo chamber. My pal Bernie the Attorney said that while money by itself bestows a certain amount of power, what comes out of the megaphone shapes perceptions in ways that neutralizes other factors (truth, wealth, status, credentials, political rank, academic standing, etc.).

      What seems clear is that the desire of rank and file American Jews is secondary to what Zionists will paint as the desire of these same Jews (or often what they can shape as the desire of rank and file American Jews).

  • 'Jewish donors warn Obama on Israel'
    • Can there be a better way to make the case that AIPAC needs to register as a foreign lobby? The incessant bullying and pressure to have the US act in Israel's interest, pushed by those within the US at all levels including government needs to be exposed.

  • Picking apart the New York Times Zionist narrative on the Nakba . . . using the New York Times
    • As amazing as these revisions/omissions are, I'm always gobsmacked when reports ignore that territory acquired by conquest is illegal since the Nuremberg courts addressed this and other issues in response to the horrors of WWII with the intent being that no one else should be subjected to similar injustices.

      I am also reminded of why one group over others has to enforce “truth” by the power of the law, as it would be quite possible for the whole house of cards to tumble if too many cracks in the base narrative started appearing and were examined in a clearer light without fear. This is not denial or revisionism but an acknowledgement of the conflating of any aspect of the Zionist narrative with that of the Holocaust. To question the Zionist narrative puts one at risk of being labeled as a denier of all Jewish history, along with the bullying that is so regularly employed in that regard.

  • Anti-Muslim bigot Walid Shoebat, brought to you by U.S. taxpayers
    • Shoebat spoke at our university years ago and even then was comparing the Palestinians to Nazis. When objections were voiced in the following days, most of the co-sponsoring groups pretended that they could disassociate themselves from such content.

  • For 40 years Israel practiced deceit in its purported plans for Palestinian autonomy (and that deceit required a partner)
    • Found this gem on Dr. Finkelstein's site - link to

      03.14.2011 |

      Following the murder at Itamar, Gilad Sharon, son of PM Ariel Sharon, published this piece on Israel’s most important tabloid, Yedioth Ahronoth. It pretty much speaks for itself. The only thing that needs to be added is that recently, the young Sharon has joined Kadima – a supposedly center-left party led by Tzipi Livni.

      The article was translated and posted in English on the rightwing Israel National News (Arutz 7) site. bold is mine:

      Gilad Sharon: PA Nationalism is Only an Offshoot of Zionism

      by Gilad Sharon

      Let us not forget with whom we are dealing here. You can take the wild Palestinian beast and put a mask on it, in the form of some fluent English-speaking spokesman. You can also put on it a three-piece suit and a silk tie. But every once in a while – during a new moon, or when a crow’s droppings hit a howling jackal, or when pita with hyssop doesn’t come out just right – the wild beast senses that this is its night, and out of ancient instinct, it sets off to stalk its prey.

      They’ll explain to us, and we’ll also explain to ourselves, how nice and beautiful peace is. We will argue excitedly and with deep inner conviction whether there should be an immediate peace agreement, or perhaps a series of interim agreements. We will discuss these and other such questions, all based on the assumption that on the other side they also think like us and also want quiet and tranquility.

      But such an assumption is a rape of reality. A society that can thus sanctify death, and whose best of its youth are baby-stabbers, is simply not like ours. Even their leaders… condemn these acts only by claiming that they “harm the Palestinian cause.” There’s no moral issue here; it’s just a question of harm to the cause. Their three-piece suit is sullied with blood stains, and the mask falls off… and the image of the beast they tried to hide is once again revealed.

      They look at us. We are everything they never were and never will be. We have a history and culture thousands of years old, we have a functioning, developing society – while they are just the offshoot of our Zionism. Their entire national story was born in the wake of Zionism. Even their self-definition as a people has no subsistence without us.

      They look at themselves through our image. The more we succeed and progress, the more their hatred intensifies. We are the proof that it is possible to do it differently, that failures are not the result of destiny, but primarily of decisions and actions.

      In any arrangement that might or might not come about, remember with whom we are dealing. Our security must always remain in our hands.

  • Benno Schmidt signals Kushner will get degree-- even as he sidles up to Wiesenfeld's racist statements
  • The upshot of the Kushner muzzling
  • 'Mondo' editors to speak tonight in Oakland
    • A slight correction; he was in NYC the 4th and 5th, but will be in the Bay Area May 9th, 10th, and 11th. You can still contact him for an interview though.

    • Best wishes for your appearance. You are also fortunate that Gilad Atzmon will be in the area that same time. See him or arrange for an interview.

      Details here: link to

      I am in the USA!!!

      Thursday, May 5, 2011 at 8:47AM Gilad Atzmon

      In the next two weeks I will be meeting friends and supporters.

      I will be talking about Israel, Palestine and the power of Beauty. I will fundraise for different humanitarian causes to do with Palestine, hope to see many of you.

      In case you want to meet me, seek an interview or find more details about my talks, please contact me via my website (use the contact form of the right).

  • Awakening: Kushner mugging leads UCLA prof to reject Zionism
    • Thank you for the cataloging. Well done.

      I would add the smears against Lieutenant Commander James Ennes U.S.N. (ret), survivor of Israel's 1967 attack on the USS Liberty and author of "Assault on the Liberty."

      As one illustration, when one of the officers injured in the Israeli attack on the Liberty, James Ennes, published a book on the case in 1980-- The Assault on the Liberty --he was under immediate and steady attack from Israeli officials, AIPAC, the Anti-Defamation League, and the grass roots activists, who would not tolerate a challenge to the official lie that the Liberty attack had been a mere unfortunate "error" and that there had been a major cover-up. Hecklers at his speeches called him a liar and anti-Semite, and when Ennes was announced as a guest on a talk show in San Francisco, the station got 500 protesting letters, and the show was inundated by hostile phone calls, including threats of physical harm to the author. His book became hard to get as his publisher, Random House, backed away from it.

      see - link to

      - AND -

      From the USS Liberty website statement (a site Mr. Ennes help create)

      Charges of “anti-Semitism”

      Anti-Semitism is an evil, pernicious doctrine that advocates hatred of an entire group of people based on nothing more than their religion and/or ethnicity. It is a senseless, irrational and wholly unacceptable thought system. It is decidedly un-American and the antithesis of what this country stands for. We strongly oppose anti-Semitism and believe that all rational minds must do likewise.

      Many of the individuals and groups who oppose our demand for an investigation and accounting of the Israeli attack on USS Liberty characterize our efforts as “anti-Semitism.” They refuse to offer facts in support of their argument that the attack was an accident. They refuse to deal with the facts we present. Rather, they simply dismiss us as “anti-Semites” and submit that they need do nothing more than this to establish their position. This is a cowardly evasion of the issue.

      The pro-Israel apologists shamelessly make these charges because they are unable to refute our arguments on the facts. Not having a factual basis for their position, they try to dismiss our arguments through ad hominem attacks that are false and disingenuous. Worse, these charges are made in bad faith for no reason other than to create a rationale for evading a discussion on the merits of the case. If they had persuasive facts to offer, they would. They haven't. All they have offered are deliberate, demonstrable lies.

      from: link to

    • My friend Bernie the Attorney used to say, "The power of Zionism ends where people of integrity taking a stand begins."

  • Tony Kushner denied CUNY honorary degree over views on Israel
    • Those familiar with Dr. Finkelstein's website know that many are uncomfortable with hearing painful truths about Isreal. Those standing for justice in the IP conflict often face retribution, particularly those with high profiles (as was the case with Dr. Finkelstein himself).

      Israel is gradually losing the ability to enforce their "official narrative" but are still able to bully some into submission.

  • The dangers of the nationalistic fever and bloodlust over Osama bin Laden’s death
    • How about you respond to the very specific question I put to you after your snide remarks.

      Can't have it both ways.

    • Cluelessly generalize much?

    • Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that the only ones qualified to help the Palestinians are the Israelis who so often do so by blasting them to bits.

      For the record, what part of my comment might they object to?

      That they're demonized as terrorists in the same vein as any Islamic extremists that get front page coverage? While true that it happens doesn't mean that the comparisons are valid. Or is your reading comprehension lacking?

      Thank you in advance for clearing this up.

    • That's the buzz I heard is going around as well.


    • My personal opinion is that this is just laying the groundwork for a later false-flag attack to be blamed on Muslim desire for revenge in the supposedly recent death of Bin Laden. This will further whip up a frenzy of renewed support for the so-called GWOT (of which Arabs/Muslims are the high-profile bogeymen).

      Clues are found, I think, in some of the early false memes (OBL purportedly using a female human sheild).

      Who has put out those false memes before and who benefits from an association of [OBL]terror target numero uno and their villian of choice?

      Why, it's Chosanistan!

      That bit of human shield disinformation puts OBL squarely on par with Palestinians.

      My pal, Bernie the Attorney, sez that people remember the 1st bit of information, whether true or not, and later corrections generally do not serve to alter the remembered misinformation (the legacy of the low information voter).

      Bernie surmises that a "dirty bomb" attack is a likely scenerio, particularly against a 'liberal' region, so as to essentially eliminate their resistance to further aggression.

      We both hope that does not turn out to be the case.

  • In defense of Superman
    • I think it was always appropriate for Mr. "Superman" to take a more humanist universalist approach to the inhabitants of planet earth. What "the American Way" used to stand for in theory (though hardly ever in practice) has long been lost as it now merely indicates that something is OK when we do it.

      As an atheist, I see the same sort of idiocy when someone utters "God bless America" in that if their god was real, its grace would be plentiful enough to be bestowed on the entire world; helping to make the bad good and the good better.

      That their god is instead used in such a miserly fashion pretty much tells me all I need to know about their belief system.

      "If your God hates the things that you do, it's probably not real."

  • Slater: Hamas is pragmatic
    • Yeah, before that statement everything was love and kisses with Hamas, but doggonit, now they've gone too far!

      Democratically elected representatioin really cheezes Israel, particularly when they're voted in to oust corrupt Israel puppets.

  • Dare to struggle, dare to win, dare to live together and build a paradise
    • This gentleman's stance reminds me of this quote regarding the theft of Native American lands - from: link to

      We need not give another recitation of past complaints nor engage in redundant dialogue of discontent. Our conditions and their cause for being should perhaps be best known by those who have written the record of America's action against Indian people. In 1832, Black Hawk correctly observed: You know the cause of our making war. It is known to all white men. They ought to be ashamed of it.

  • Zionists' failure to save Jews from Holocaust was spiked 50 years ago, now in the news
    • “Israelis are among the most truthful people I have met”

      From the writings of Gilad Atzmon - link to

      "On the face of it, it would seem as if Jews are over sensitive to the ‘racial’ discriminatory implication of the ‘J’ word. However most Jews are not that concerned when being associated collectively with some great minds, adorable violin players or conductors. In short to safely apply the ‘Jew’ category, you just have to make sure you say the right things. No one will ever cause you any trouble for mentioning Albert Einstein in reference to Jewish intelligence or even bringing up Anne Frank as an exemplary motif of Jewish innocence but you may get into some serious trouble once you mention the following list of real and fictional characters: Bernie Madoff, Fagin, Wolfowitz, Lord Levy, Shylock, Alan Greenspan, Netanyahu and Nathan Rothschild without even identifying them as Jews.

      All of the above depicts a very obscure, yet far from surprising picture. As it seems, Jews, largely do not mind stereotypes or collective categories. They do not mind racial generalizations and essentialist stigmas as long as they are positive."

    • I remember being banned from several sites for merely bringing up this issue. Their attacks against Lenni Brenner consisted mainly of dismissing his scholarship based on his politics.

      See his self-defense against ADL smears here: link to

      One day people will understand that such a determined effort to bury the truth means you have something to hide.

  • Arab spring: Fatah and Hamas reportedly reach deal for interim gov't, elections in a year
    • Erasmus,

      I would add this re: Israel-Syria from Dayan as well

      From: Michael Oren's Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East - Reviewed by Norman Finkelstein - link to

      Indeed, he suppresses what is surely the most revealing source on the root cause of these border clashes. In an interview that created a stir in Israel after its belated publication, Defense Minister Moshe Dayan declared:

      I know how at least 80 percent of all of the incidents there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's speak about 80 percent. It would go like this: we would send a tractor to plow in the demilitarized area, and we would know ahead of time that the Syrians would start shooting. If they did not start shooting, we would inform the tractor to progress farther, until the Syrians, in the end, would get nervous and would shoot. And then we would use guns, and later, even the air force, and that is how it went. We thought.that we could change the lines of the cease-fire accords by military actions that were less than a war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.

      It was just such a staged provocation - an Israeli tractor plowing through a disputed field despite Syrian pleas for compromise - that sparked the April 1967 aerial battle. In Oren's reckoning, however, the battle ensued after a pattern of "Syrian provocation" (SDW: p. 46).


      Commenting on the thread as a whole, it is always interesting to me to see just how easily hasbarist trolls are dispatched. Contrast that where the site is practicing either overt or covert Zionist gatekeeping and these same masterful comments never see the light of day because the Zionist position cannot be argued effectively in a fair fight.

      My hat's off to all the commentors who provided much fascinating and pertinent information.

    • Here's all you need to know about Michael Oren -

      From - link to

      Abba Eban with Footnotes
      Michael Oren's Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East
      Reviewed by Norman Finkelstein

      It would seem that Oren's main achievement is lending a scholarly veneer to, as it were, the Abba Eban version of the June war. To reconcile the historical record with this apologetic narrative he resorts to several distinct, if overlapping, procedures:

      attaching equal weight to a public statement (or memoir) and the hard evidence of an internal document contradicting it
      burying in an avalanche of dubious evidence a crucial counter-finding
      minimizing, misrepresenting, or suppressing a crucial piece of evidence

      Also, see Norman Finkelstein's comments on Hamas -

      "The Hamas government has sent mixed signals about its willingnes­s to recognise Israel. It has certainly made enough gestures to recognisin­g the June 1967 borders, such that you can negotiate with them. But the real question is: what has been the Israeli position? Has any Israeli government­, or official, or mainstream political party ever recognised a Palestinia­n state in the June 1967 borders? And the answer is, flatly, no.

      -* It is not complicate­d. *- The position of Hamas was that any recognitio­n had to be mutual. I think that is perfectly legitimate­. Why should recognitio­n be one-sided? Why should they have to recognise the Israeli state, but the Israeli state not have to recognise the right of the Palestinia­ns, not to any state, but to a state within the pre-July 1967 border? No Israeli government has done that. If the Israeli government does not do it, then I agree with Hamas: they should not do it."

      From: Interview: Norman Finkelstei­n – 12.15.2006 | The iWitness

      More from Dr. Finkelstein - from: link to

      Since the mid-1970s, there’s been an international consensus for resolving the Israel-Palestine conflict. [...] It’s called a two-state settlement, and a two-state settlement is pretty straightforward, uncomplicated. Israel has to fully withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza and Jerusalem, in accordance with the fundamental principle of international law, [...] that it’s inadmissible to acquire territory by war. The West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem, having been acquired by war, it’s inadmissible for Israel to keep them. They have to be returned. On the Palestinian side and also the side of the neighboring Arab states, they have to recognize Israel’s right to live in peace and security with its neighbors. That was the quid pro quo: recognition of Israel, Palestinian right to self-determination in the West Bank and Gaza with its capital in Jerusalem. That’s the international consensus. It’s not complicated. It’s also not controversial.

      Sourced statements on the Middle East

      Norman Finkelstein & Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami Debate: Complete Transcript

  • What is your question for Benjamin Netanyahu?
  • On the 8th anniversary of Rachel Corrie’s stand in Gaza
    • Who's to say it wouldn't have gone higher if they didn't have that particular noteriety?

      As far as that giving them any sort of leg up on integrity, Halliburton stock does quite well, and their shady practices get US service personnel electrocuted in the shower.

    • It's hard to believe that much time has passed as it is still fresh in my mind. It hurts to see her good name tarnished by people who would resort to any smear to try and defend the actions of Chosanistan.

      Peace and warm wishes to all of Rachel's family, friends, and loved ones.

  • Anthony Weiner, Brian Baird and Roger Cohen debate the Goldstone Report on March 3rd in NYC
    • Had to get this comment up from David Horowitz's blog as it's both insanely comical and comically insane.

      link to

      from: mad_mad_world

      The rank cult of islam always was and always will be an ugly, ugly ideology. Born of evil and metaphorically fermented in venom, islam spews out toxic gasses that are straight from wreaks with the stench of death. muslims are by nature a very intrusive and offensive lot and as such, all their misery is of their own making. It is from the time their evil cult was started, about 1400 years ago, by that demonic man-beast and “prophet from hell” called moe-ham-mad. muslims are and always will be a hopeless people until islam is renounced and it finally gets disbanded by all nations. islamic cultists must be freed by interventions and we need to encourage them to convert to other religions. As Christians, it is our God given duty to provide unlimited financial aid to Israel and the Jewish people. They must receive all manners of support from all western countries. The Jewish people are our brothers. They have contributed so much for the betterment of all mankind and, WHAT HAVE THE MUSLIMS CONTIBUTED? GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE, GOING THREE TIMES!!! Its just as I thought... NOTHING.
      We must pray for the Jewish people, especially for those in the biblical land of Israel. May God bless Judaism and the land of Israel and may God damn islam and its proponents...ORA PRO NOBIS.

  • McGovern paints Hillary Clinton as willful hawk to Obama's jitters
  • Israel destroys hundreds of West Bank olive trees to lay settlement water line
  • Ivory guntower: 'Harvard Crimson' runs yet another piece (#6) by a former Israeli soldier
    • What a great piece. Amazing that since its publication in '07, there hasn't been a single online comment (in the paper of the renowned university itself!?!).

      How's that for confirming the fear of even discussing the issue might involve repercussions?

  • Animals Lara Logan Arabs brutal animals Lara Logan rape culture Lara Logan
    • Good point. It reminded me of reading how Streisand's cousin or whatever can't make aliyah because of a Facebook entry about some affiliation with a xian ministry. The MP rejected the appeal by ruling he was an undesirable for "working against the interests of Israel or the Jewish people."

      And he still wants to raise his family amidst all this dysfunction!

      I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. ~ Groucho Marx

  • We need to give more money to Israel
    • I'll have to give C-SPAN another try.

      I stopped watching because whenever there was a calm, rational caller commenting on the IP conflict with even the least amount of criticism towards Israel, they'd be cut short and usually hung up on (this was quite common particularly when the subject was specifically about some aspect of the ME conflict or had a representative from the region). If they were ranting and spouting all sorts of offensive gibbersish, they would let the call run long (I suspected plants in most cases as the rants were by-the-numbers Jew bashing). Even if the rants were real, C-SPAN seemed to shut out only the reasoned, pro-justice, pro-Palestinian calls.

      The thoughtful voices are out there, they just need to be heard.

  • Never Again For Anyone: Right wing Zionists attempt to muzzle Holocaust survivor speaking for Palestinian rights
    • But I don’t know – since the Egyptian revolution began I’ve been hearing the most hateful comments from persons I would never have expected of such extremism.

      Please elaborate if you could. What sort of extremism directed at whom?

    • This sounds so typical to me as I am familiar with becoming a target, so to speak, for voicing a particular view on the IP conflict (and prior to that for even asking certian questions regarding it).

      I had just received an email alert from Estee Chandler of JVP talking about the threats against her for her move to launch an LA chapter (including details about her family to further intimidate).

      What makes it more difficult for those using such tactics to succeed is standing together and refusing to cower.

      It is always encouraging to see others come out of the wood work to voice their support for justice. My sincere regards to the organization, the organizers, and the supporters, particularly in debunking the false claims made about the event. For too long, lies of the opposition have been unquestioningly accepted as truth .

      (btw - view "wanted poster" left on her doorstep here - link to )

  • When the rocket hit our school in Beersheva, I thought of Yossarian
  • Mossad chief's statement removes Iranian nuclear threat (Will the 'Atlantic' report it here?)
    • Sounds strangely familiar to what was noted in Dr. Norman Finkelstein's critque of Michael Oren's book, "Six Days of War"

      In this regard it also bears notice that Oren cites the premonition of Quartermaster General Mattityahu Peled that "the Egyptian threat had to be eliminated at once if Israel were to survive" but not Peled's subsequent admission that this posture had been a "bluff," and he quotes statements by IDF chief of operations Ezer Weizman that "We must strike now and swiftly.we must deal the enemy a serious blow, for if we won't other forces will soon join him," and "All the signs indicate that the Egyptians are ready to strike. We have no option but to attack at once," but not Weizman's later acknowledgment that actually "there was no threat of destruction" and the Egyptians would have "suffered a complete defeat" even if they "attacked first." [....] Far from panicking on the eve of the June war, the "IDF under Rabin" was - in the words of Israeli military historian Martin van Creveld - "at the peak of its preparedness," "confident in its power" and "spoiling for a fight and willing to go to considerable lengths to provoke it."

  • Collective punishment: Wikileaks doc says Israel kept Gaza on 'brink of collapse' partly as response to capture of Gilad Shalit
    • Outside of the Mondocult does anyone really buy that nonsense.

      Considering the fact that the Ziocult regularly distorts the discussion by continually omitting, limiting, deleting, banning, bullying, and misrepresenting contrary positions, those of the so-called "Mondocult" are painfully aware that the opposition largely consists of liars and/or some combination of ignorance, willful or otherwise.

  • Gaza Two Years Later
    • The common bond of simple humanity is profound.

      Yet I can still imagine Zionists hyperventilating over these "terrorists" pretending to be "normal" human beings.

  • The calm strength of a Palestinian woman
    • I am reminded (and was just discussing with a co-worker) the reality of the buffalo hunts on Native American hunting grounds. This mass slaughter was not about taking advantage of a hunter's paradise but rather to deprive the indigenous peoples of a food source so they would choose to move on ("Don't go away mad, just go away.").

      Any attempt on their part to resist had them branded as primitive bloodthirsty savages.

    • I recently saw a piece in the local paper about Caltech students and volunteers harvesting the olives from the campus courtyard olive trees. It was portrayed as so communal and festive as they went about the process leading up to sending off the sorted harvest to an outfit that donated their facilities to press the oil, which was then bottled under the Caltech brand label ( link to ).

      I could not help but contrast that with the experience that Palestinian families and growers go through regularly trying to harvest their crop (provided the trees have not been bulldozed), not just for the fun of it but to actually survive. I'm sure they could have an experience every bit as festive and communal, but are deprived of it thanks to the petty (and not so petty) harassment they suffer at the hands of settlers and the IDF.

      I am going to write Caltech (there's a place for additional questions in the FAQ) and ask if they've ever considered using their harvest to show solidarity with the Palestinians and highlight and publicize the obstacles they go through to try to bring their own harvest to market.

  • The Mavi Marmara is set to hit the big screen in Turkey
  • A tale of two ghettos
    • So the oppression, subjugation, dehumanization (and make no mistake - the killings)…as long as it's in's not a problem?

    • I simply love this photo and the outrage it's generated because we can hear several times a week how Hamas or Ahmadinejad is ready to [do something sinister to] Israeli children in front of their parents and that is somehow not racist...but to calmly and rationally ask, "Can we trust this man with nuclear weapons?"...a wholly valid and reasonable question, and the tired and perfunctory charges of anti-Semitism spring forth.

  • How many Israeli soldiers does it take to keep an elderly Palestinian woman from harvesting her olives?
    • It doesn't matter how many IDF heroes it takes to stop her.


      It's as simple as that.

      Olive oil can be used to lubricate the silo doors to their nuclear missile bunkers and then Ahmadinejad would be free to waltz in and clean up and throw Israeli incubator babies on the cold floor to die in agony.

      There are very good reasons when Israelis decide to ban and block a commodity. Those "humanitarian" flotillas carried enough banned commodities to service the entire PA Army, Air Force, Navy, & Marines...not to mention all the budding toddler terrorists in waiting.

      Not only that, the flotilla carried pointed sticks, and metal implements of a large and heavy nature (while the world sits idly by yet again as Lady Israel is once more brutalized - for shame).

  • Joy to the world, David Broder says Obama can rejuvenate the economy by going to war with Iran
    • Well...if it will rev up our flagging economy, what's the big deal with a few dead foreigners?

      As long as our bestest buds in Israel think it's a good idea. They always have our best interests at heart.

      They're so thoughtful. What ever would we do without friends such as these? I hope we *never* get on their bad side. Why G_d H_mself would smite us!

      And we'd deserve it!

  • Caterpillar freeze and 'Jewish Voice for Peace' honor suggest advance of boycott movement
    • True to an extent except for the bad PR that it potentially generates, particularly considering there's virtually no MSM coverage of the Rachel Corrie trial as far as I can tell.

      I have no problem setting sights on other corporations profiting off the blood of victims of the Israelis. Next in the figurative crosshairs should be the politicians who gain in numerous (and most often unacknowledged) ways from supporting this long-running & ongoing bloodbath.

    • Excellent links. Thanks for providing them.

      It's good to see companies realizing the need for projecting an image of good corporate citizens (even when dragged kicking & screaming to get there).

  • Abulhawa: 'As Palestinians, we are facing our own extinction'
  • Congressional chairman to Palestinians who live in the capital of the Jewish people: Drop dead

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