Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 1124 (since 2009-07-31 16:25:09)


I grew up with the conventional wisdom believing that the Israelis were the "white hats" and that the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims were the "black hats." After 9/11, I wanted to know more about the conflict in the ME. I came to the realization that the narrative was totally one-sided. I largely credit many outstanding Jewish voices (my close friend Bernie the Attorney for one) for opening my eyes. I see on a daily basis the efforts by Zionists and their stooges to dismiss truth-tellers in the most reprehensible manner, up to and including threats of violence. Truth needs no army of thugs to establish it; only lies need enforcers.


Showing comments 400 - 301

  • 9/11 commission prevaricated about prime grievance behind the attack, Palestine
    • How about convincing me that a proper investigation took place?

      I'm not saying I know what happened. I'm agreeing with the official 9/11 Commission where they establish beyond dispute that they were lied to (meaning they have PROOF of being told things that could not possibly be true, and then have stories change from the original claims).

      see: "The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies" - link to

      The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission.

      Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities' School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the original flawed 9/11 report.

      Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? Yes.

      Farmer states...“at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

      The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . " When Bush's own handpicked commission failed to go along with the cover up and requested a criminal investigation, why was nothing done?

      9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

      With the only "official" 9/11 report now totally false, where do we go from here? Who is hurt by these lies? The families of the victims of 9/11 have fought, for years, to get to the truth. For years, our government has hidden behind lies and secrecy to deny them closure.

      The official narrative is itself a badly woven conspiracy too full of holes to take seriously and I reject it as being based on enough fact and a willingness to follow relevant clues wherever they lead.

      Or, I could rely on your assertion that your son knows stuff - case closed.

      Thanks, but no thanks.

    • Irrefutable observations, No49.

      My pal "Bernie the Attorney" pointed out that the dueling experts is sadly one of the easier things to confuse people with (even if, as Haytham so astutely pointed out, their individual credibility is actually examined).

      He's spent a lifetime dealing with hired-gun experts willing to sell their testimony for a few ducats. The media that either glorifies them or demonizes them sell themselves even cheaper. I was relieved to learn that a professor from my university was on the Scholars for Truth roster (he's got an oddly unique triple doctorate of dentistry, electrical engineering, and copyright law). He warned of the misdirection of many supposedly valid truther sites as part of the discrediting process. His advice was exactly what yours is; use your own common sense to examine the competing claims and ferret out those who would hide behind so-called experts to peddle nonsense.

      Your approach, given a fair forum, is beyond dispute. It reminds me of Cal Tech's Richard Feyman at the Challenger disaster hearings where he placed a rubber O-ring in a glass of ice water to clearly demonstrate what took place with the SRB segment seals.

      Bernie goes to the heart of the matter with foreknowledge (stock short-selling and the dancing Israelis).

    • Control is also exerted by how much a story resonates in the echo chamber. This provides plausible deniability. Look at how some stories (with almost the exact language verbatim) bounce around the echo chamber's 24/7 news cycle, whereas others are relegated to what amounts to the equivalent of the back pages of the print media.

      Do you not think that front page visibility or positioning above or below "the fold" has any relevance?

    • And btw, Bugliosi got this one wrong. Explain the pristine bullet that just happened to "fall out of Conelly"(sp?) on the hospital gurney. While you're at it, can have your son and his critical eye replicate a lead projectile hitting dense bone mass and not be deformed but rather look as if it was shot into cotton wadding?

      (*My* pal's a retired at 43 years old ambulance chasing attorney and he says 9/11 and the JFK assassination are both cover-ups and makes a convincing case for both - he's one of the most brilliant SOBs I've ever had the pleasure to know - no offense to your son)

    • My son is a structural engineer who has a very critical eye for engineering issues. He sees no mystery or conspiracy at WTC.

      Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth see it a little differently - link to

      So do Pilots for 9/11 Truth - link to

      So do Scholars - link to

      Etc., etc., etc...

      I guess your son also has a minor in crime scene investigation as efforts to investigate and examine the wreckage was specifically blocked (and the subsequent evidence destroyed - in a mass murder for chrissakes). Civil engineers testified that their contact with the wreckage was no more than a inexplicably hurried "walk-through."

      There's a civil engineering journal at my university that did a puff piece that basically said, "we didn't previously realize that steel frame structures could suffer total collapse from the effects of a standard office building fire" (the structures structural integrety was intect from the plane hits through redundancy and individual components able to carry load weights on their own).

      Could you ask your son why the civil engineering community seems to have no sense of urgency over the newly discovered propensity of steel frame structures to suffer full collapse from fire (NEVER happened before and then three in one goddam day?!?)?

      After the Northrdge CA quake, and several major freeway overpasses collapsed, they spent years and billions retrofitting the f#ck out of the LA freeways to try to prevent future occurences.

      Can you ask your son to duplicate a scale model of the collapse and have it shown on "Mythbusters"? Should be easy as there is no mystery or conspiracy.

      Oops, I forget. Mythbusters said they will not address any aspect of this whatsoever. I thought their ratings derived from tackling those vexing questions we all want answered. Who would discourage this ratings bonanza? If someone claimed the WTCs were haunted by ghosts, the History Channel would be running ghost programs all f#cking weekend!

      Cui bono?

    • I'm a 9/11 truther. It is without question that we have been lied to in regards to 9/11.

  • Bank, king and God (not necessarily in that order)
    • Who's whitewashing anything?

      You could predict better than a TV psychic (bar set low, I know) what our spin regarding the emerging ruling system and leadership would be based on their views on Israel alone.

      Despotic friends of Israel would be welcomed into the fold, and open and democratic entities that denounced (or even mildly rebuked) Israeli oppression and apartheid would be villified and demonized (the fear industry does quite well in Chosanistan).

    • It was one of the first entrepreneurial enterprises to surface in Iraq after the fall of Saddam (provided you could steer clear of roving "virtue and vice" cops). Though Saddam was a predominantly secular dictator, he understood the place that theocracy held in keeping the population in line.

      Like the oligarch said to the clergy, "You keep them stupid, and I'll keep them poor."

    • Well, um yeah...there's that.

      Please! Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

      see: link to

    • As an atheist, I've always held that "IN GOD WE TRUST" was an outright lie, or at the very least, horribly exclusionary of non-theist citizens.

      I would wholeheartedly support your revision as being completely unobjectionable, and exemplary of "truth in advertising."

      Well done.

    • I think our history of distorting the principles of a secular democratic republic with our kow-towing to our own homegrown theocrats and others employing a blatant double-standard in regards to the Constitution and rule of law, has hurt the actual spread of democracy and freedom for untold generations past and future.

      Great ideals if you actually choose to live by them; a sham and painfully glaring hypocrisy when you don't.

  • 'Commentary' blames Turkey for starting the insurgency in Iraq
    • I remember very clearly at a CFI conference (Center for Inquiry - a secular humanst group founded by Prof. Paul Kurtz), that Turkish-American professor Taner Edis - see: link to - spoke quite eloquently against the acts of aggression the US was about to embark on in Iraq, even as most the attendees were of the mindset that striking a blow against religious fundamentalism was called for (disregarding Iraq's actual relevance to that quest). I myself at the time felt that it might be an opportunity to help democratic moderates of Iraq overthrow Saddam in a manner thwarted by Bush I in Gulf War I (not fully realizing at the time that a great many of them were murdered following the US decision not to support them in their attempts to take back their country themselves).

      Prof. Kurtz responded to my question about if the response to 9/11 should be considered a military matter or a criminal one and answered, "a political one" and went on to stress the need for examining (and addressing) the roots of violence and conflict as a better means to avoid such tragedies in the future.

      It took a bit of time on my part, but in hindsight I see how right both men were (though 9/11 is *still* a criminal investigation yet to have taken place, in my mind).

      This is my own first-person experience with someone from Turkey (and several of my co-workers are Armenian and also point out that shameful aspect of Turkey's past). It is a reminder to me that every single group on the planet possesses members of great love, understanding, and compassion, as well as those who could use a little more of the same.

      Part of the concept of surrounding yourself with people smarter than you, means to effectively weigh their sense of urgency when presented with it.

      I remember this constantly as I try to do better.

    • Obviously s/b "points out" [why is it always that when I see the mistake(s), I no longer see the "Edit" button?]

    • And Chosanistan and its defenders have an attack of the vapours if someone points how readily its vassals respond to their "marching orders."

  • Emily Henochowicz posts sardonic 'love poem' to a country that 'stole' her eye and is gripped by fear
    • Isreal's use of lethal and less-than-lethal weaponry against protesters reminds me of the how hate crimes are prosecuted. It will be pointed out that the perpetrators were not concerned about targeting a particular victim, just that a victim must be made to suffer from the target group.

      Maybe the Israeli forces were not that concerned that it be Ms. Henochowicz that was maimed, just the possibility that someone from that crowd was.

    • I am compelled to agree with you.

      Warn regards, Chaos.

    • Funded by (if not actually manufactured by) the besterest buddy of those pulling the trigger unleashing the most moral tear-gas-canister in the world.

    • Well sure Chaos, if you want to dig way back to the distant past (September 4, 2011 at 1:37 am), but what has he said in a similar vein in the last 5 minutes, huh?

      I seriously doubt that accurately reflects his current views (and he did qualify it bit with the possibility that, in theory, there might exist a Palestinian or two that is not hateful, racist, anti-Semitic of yet).

      But of course they would be unredeemable anyway as they might have a sliver of compassion for arch-terrorist Emily Henochowicz.

      As I've stated previously, I've come to find his arguments quite compelling.

    • Sadly, in a way, we all are.

      All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing~ Edmond Burke

      Or not enough even.

      Hunter S. Thompson was put on a Secret Service watch list after a speech to a gathering in a Protestant church in which he declared, "If you really believed in those things you profess to, you'd march down to Washington and stomp that son of a bitch to DEATH!" (i.e. Bush I).

      If my IP wasn't blocked by the LA Jewish Journal, I might try to find for you the piece where I showed just how awkward and cumbersome it is to preface every statement with "some" in regards to members of a particular group.

      I don't think it applies here because the acts of a nation-state are the responsibility of its citizens, directly, indirectly, or otherwise. Israel either acts in concert of the will of the majority of its people, or its people are essentially silent in the face of Israel's acts.

      To establish your own consistency, I don't imagine that it would be hard at all to find a single instance of your rebuking someone for laying the acts of some Palestinians, or some element of Palestinian leadership, at the feet of all Palestinians (let alone the possibility of your own usage following such a pattern), now would it?

    • In all seriousness, maybe you are right and I misused the term. It says to corrupt the purity or perfection of. Israel merely maimed her and her "perfection" is unaltered (as is their "corruption").

    • Thanks 3e, I see the light now.

      The nerve of Ms. Henochowicz hitting one of the world's most moral army's (or police force's) projectiles with her face!

      I hope she was prosecuted to the fullest extent of Israeli and World Court law for any damage to/"defiling" of the canister, as well as any trauma suffered by the person who fired it, and the government and apologists defending it who understand the need to brutally restrict and discourage those who might actually shine a spotlight on Israeli criminal behavior.

      Maybe she should have had her face slashed with a razor like that other whore in the Clint Eastwood movie "Unforgiven."

      Would that better suit your bloodlust?

    • What a remarkable and beautiful young lady. That Israel would defile her young body in the manner it has is truly an obscenity. Yet her indefatigable spirit shines through.

      I am 50+ years old and have never so much as broken a bone. The missing teeth and toenails that have fallen off have been through no one's fault but my own. To lose an eye for the brazen crime of peacefully standing up for the rights of fellow human beings is unthinkable.

      She prompts in me both tears of shame and joy. Shame for what was done to her and the realization that I do not possess a fraction of her courage, and joy for the knowledge that there are people such as her in the world.

  • IDF policy director on West Bank demos: 'we don't do Gandhi very well'
  • The end of civilization: no 'dignity' in remaining silent at BBC Proms
    • Gilad Atzmon offered these comments on his site - link to

      On a further note, I may as well admit that, regardless of the politics involved, it takes some boldness to stop a symphonic orchestra playing a violin concerto. I certainly cannot imagine myself engaging in such an act in million years. Regardless of the legitimacy of such a non-violent act, which I do not doubt, I have to agree that the people who stopped the Israeli orchestra, weren’t at all ordinary. I hope that their action will lead Israelis towards self-reflection, but I actually doubt it very much.

      Considering he opens his post with his complaints about elements of the movement, there's a clear and undeniable admiration.

  • Taking himself to woodshed, Derfner says his 'awful truth' column isn't what he believes and stood in opposition to 'my allegiance to Israel'
    • eljay,

      Perfectly superb! Superbly perfect!

    • Wow! Truly powerful and effective response.

      Well done.

      [cue that movie cliche metronome clapping where a single person realizing what they just witnessed responds prompting a subsequent crescendo of applause]

    • MRW,

      I'm glad you mentioned that feature as I only actually saw it and used it for the first time today (though I vaguely recollect someone pointing it out prior but did not seek it out myself at the time).

      Thank you for your other remarks, too. You are also recognized in my pantheon of sages.

    • For clarification and to make sure my point is unmistakeable, I should expand this one line "pummeling Zionists/Israelis/Jews/mean people" to "pummeling Zionists/Israelis/Jews/mean people/Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians/anti-Zionists/anti-Semites/the enemy of your choice/etc. out of existence" because there are those who argue that the "other side" is so recalcitrant that an actual "final solution" is the only solution.

      That is certainly not my position, just that there are those who would not necessarily take such measures "off the table."

    • I think that my confusion is clear was the point.

      Somehwere within the spectrum of "waving a magic wand" and literally "pummeling Zionists/Israelis/Jews/mean people out of existence" resides the path that will result in peace and justice for the people of the region.

      Some even see total unrelenting violence as that magic wand. Others are glad to leave the whole thing as an academic exercise as it is largely only Palestinians suffering under the weight of such oppression.

      I am but a bystander. I speak out as an American because my govt helps fund these abuses. It could be argued (credibly) that I should be heading towards DC at this very moment to unleash my wrath upon these tyrants (but the sea is so vast, and my boat so small).

      Instead, I am resigned to do what I can, with what I have, where I am.

      And yes, it is correct that this is based on ignorance...because for the life of me I do not know what else to do.

    • It’s like an obese white guy in a suit rapping in tone-deaf about what it’s like to live “in the hood.”

      Sadly and ironically, this recent image came to mind - link to

    • Here is what Naeim Giladi had to say about the Jews of Iraq - link to

      I write this article
      for the same reason I wrote my book:
      to tell the American people,
      and especially American Jews,
      that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate
      willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave,
      Jews killed Jews; and that,
      to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands,
      Jews on numerous occasions
      rejected genuine peace initiatives
      from their Arab neighbors.
      I write about what the first prime minister of Israel called "cruel Zionism."
      I write about it because I was part of it.

    • I'd also add this as to how I view the effect of so many of the contributions here.

      When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do. ~ William Blake

    • Would you at least concede that not everyone's path to "enlightenment" would be the same as yours?

      Could you also elaborate on your link as I am already "godless" and have been for some time.

      If I'm following you correctly, it mirrors what Norman Finkelstein has expressed in that the decision as to what is right for Palestinians is exclusively a Palestinian decision. The "Losing My Religion" would then be separating myself from this "self-congratulatory" conglomeration of naval-gazers?

      That it is a secular Jew saying this does not negate it. Neither does the fact that I might be remiss in citing a Palestinian individual or organization who have expressed this same view. I depend on others at times to steer me towards those whose voices carry wisdom and insight as well.

      No man is an island...

    • I'm glad I checked your link because there were some gems there too. Pat Lang's "Sic Semper Tyrannis" site uses the title ironically (Someone should tell Larry Derfner that he is an Anti-Semite. - link to

    • I've said it here before but feel compelled to say it again. On no other site do I read every single entry in a long comment thread because so many of them are banal and repetitious.

      Here, I must ensure I do not miss a single gem. I particularly love that so many voices I stand with are MOTS (Masters of the "Shorter"). I'll be reading some bloviating polemic justifying one Zionist atrocity, double-standard, pronouncement, etc., or another, and half a dozen posters will respond clarifying and dissecting *exactly* what blather is being promoted and cut it to shreds in a thoroughly concise (or if need be, at length and in great detail), effective, and heaven help us, *entertaining* manner.

      When I started looking into what I didn't know about the conflict in the ME, it was voices such as yours that held the greatest sway and turned my thinking around (Israel as the "white hats" was my default position, pretty much out of laziness in examining the "official narrative"). I feel a great kinship with you all (including the humanist universalist kinship with Jews and Israelis whose needs are not inconsequential either - I consider it a sign of respect to speak one's mind openly and honestly).

      The quote that comes to mind when reading so many of you (and Phil and Adam and their contributors that bring so many welcome voices together) is this...

      Surround yourself with people smarter than you…

    • I must say I am familiar with your path and your realizations.

      Take heart.

      Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

    • Great quote.

      I would add...

      “Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.” ~ Paulo Freire

    • It is always remarkable to me to see someone recant over perfectly defensible statements. It seems to happen quite a bit to those who have had the temerity to make Zionists or their apologists cry.

  • Turkey expels Israeli ambassador, cuts military ties and promises further legal action following UN flotilla report
    • I know I have at times complained of repetion, so forgive me for trotting this little tidbit supplied by none other than Moshe Dayan (as only Israeli sources as to what transpired carry any weight).

      from: link to

      In an interview that created a stir in Israel after its belated publication, Defense Minister Moshe Dayan declared:

      "I know how at least 80 percent of all of the incidents there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's speak about 80 percent. It would go like this: we would send a tractor to plow in the demilitarized area, and we would know ahead of time that the Syrians would start shooting. If they did not start shooting, we would inform the tractor to progress farther, until the Syrians, in the end, would get nervous and would shoot. And then we would use guns, and later, even the air force, and that is how it went. We thought that we could change the lines of the cease-fire accords by military actions that were less than a war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us."

      It was just such a staged provocation - an Israeli tractor plowing through a disputed field despite Syrian pleas for compromise - that sparked the April 1967 aerial battle.

  • Protesters interrupted Passacaglia w/ Beethoven (more on Israel Philharmonic protest in London)
    • And your rational, sensible argument for what was done to the Jenin Freedom Theater is what exactly...?

      And, if you don't mind, what do you waste your time on?

      Remember, you don't make peace with your friends, but with your enemies.

    • their views disappeared one funeral at a time.

      Very well written. I remember someone quoting George Stephanopoulis on gay rights and he said it was not a matter of if but when. He said the young demographic was not bothered by it and that those opposing it would die out.

    • When boycotts of athletic team participation in international events happen, is it based on whether or not the athletes are for or against a particular abuse by the state they represent?

      I don't think so.

      If the orchestra is that sympathetic to justice and equality for all the people of the region, not only will they understand, but they might be expected to join in song at some point.

    • With all the hand-wringing over the "vile" actions of the protesters, I would love to see a comparison by the detractors between this act and those against the Jenin Freedom Theater.

      Kristallnacht my @ss.

    • I love the lyrics. Coupled with such a powerful Beethoven piece really brings it alive.

      Kudos to all.

  • UN report on flotilla raid: Israel shot em the wrong way but everything else it did was fine
  • 'NYT' reviews new Mossad thriller without any suggestion of the political context for such work
  • 8th-inning thought experiments
  • Rep. Allen West says Obama is Neville Chamberlain (to Arab Nazis)
  • 'Brand Israel' has failed
  • Important study shows that a small network is fostering widespread hatred of Islam inside US politics and public opinion
    • Cliff,

      You mean hopmhi was already called out on his sophistry and yet he continues to promulgate the same nonsense?!?!

      I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! (in reality, I'm not really shocked. It's actually rather unsurprising)

    • “Zionist collusion with the Nazis”, “Israeli perfidy against the USS Liberty”, “refusal by US law enforcement and intelligence organizations to further investigate the Israeli component of 9/11″

      It’s when you hear stuff like this that you know you’re dealing with lunatics.

      51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazi by LENNI BRENNER - link to

      [E]ditorialist Edward Mortimer declared that “Brenner is able to cite numerous cases where Zionists collaborated with anti-Semitic regimes, including Hitler’s.”

      Rockets, Napalm, Torpedoes & Lies - Israel’s Attack on the Liberty, Revisited by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR - link to

      More proof has recently come to light from the Israeli side. A few years after Attack on the Liberty was originally published, Ennes got a call from Evan Toni, an Israeli pilot. Toni told Ennes that he had just read his book and wanted to tell him his story. Toni said that he was the pilot in the first Israeli Mirage fighter to reach the Liberty. He immediately recognized the ship to be a US Navy vessel. He radioed Israeli air command with this information and asked for instructions. Toni said he was ordered to "attack." He refused and flew back to the air base at Ashdod. When he arrived he was summarily arrested for disobeying orders.

      Israel's 9/11 connection exposed - link to

      "A few of the operatives are well known in the Israeli intelligence community. The report cited the names of Peer Segalovitz (military registration number 5087989) and Aran Ofek, son of a renowned two-star general in the Israeli army. The network targeted some of the most sensitive sites in the U.S., such as Tanker Air Force Base near Oklahoma City. Indeed, the U.S. Air Force's Office of Special Investigation sent a letter to the Justice Department on May 16 of last year to ask for assistance in a case against four Israelis suspected of spying: Yaron Ohana, Ronen Kalfon, Zeev Cohen and Naor Topaz."

      And that Justin Raimondo piece is pretty old yet those angles were not worked for fear of where they might lead.

      Though the official 9/11 commission has admitted it has been lied to to the point of its report being essentially worthless (see: The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies - link to ), for some reason there is no real urgency to determine where the truth actually lies.

      Looney is as looney does, eh hopmhi?

      "Have a nice day," indeed.

    • Not very often. It’s when the position is one that David Duke used to be the only one espousing that criticism faces a problem.

      Unless it's in regards to Zionism. David Duke's race separatist views more closely resemble those of Zionism than not. It's plainly evident that part of Israeli Zionists' outrage against the Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians is that they do not "know their place" and pay proper deference to Israeli Jews.

    • So does the Holocaust, Arab anti-semitism, Palestinian support for Hitler, the work of the Yishuv to build a democratic state, the use of suicide bombing by Palestinians, the hijacking of airplanes, 9/11, and US foreign policy. These all have consequences as well.

      So does that fact that the Palestinians did not perpetrate the Holocaust, the fact of Jewish/Israeli anti-Arab/Muslim/Palestinian rhetoric and oppression, the fact of Zionist collusion with the Nazis (see the work of Lenni Brenner), the fact of a claimed "democratic" state built upon a double-standard of ethnic favoritism and apartheid (generally accepted as existing, even by mainstream Zionists), the creation of the state of Israel by way of terrorist bombings (with the further indignity of trying to lay blame upon the Arab regionals), the fact of multiple false-flag attacks attempted (and perpetrated) by Israel, the fact of Israeli perfidy against the USS Liberty, the fact of a refusal by US law enforcement and intelligence organizations to further investigate the Israeli component of 9/11, and the fact of US elected representatives so beholden to the Israeli Lobby that it unduly influences the choices they make in regards to US foreign these all have consequences as well?

    • hopmhi,

      The compilation for links I posted has a web site to examine Islamic texts (USC-MSA - link to ) as an aid in understanding of views held by various participants in the region's conflicts.

      Why is there no link for examining Jewish sacred texts (or is there and I have overlooked it)? Do their sacred texts not apply (or do they get a pass outright)?

      I think these are valid observations. I think the slant is consistently for the "official narrative" of Israel as beleaguered victim of Arab/Muslim/Palestinian aggression; facts be damned.

    • Hopmhi,

      Do you recall how often "moderate" Muslims are asked to specifically renounce the militant ones? My point is that the fringe Zionist sites get a pass from the "moderate" ones because they can be the virtual "bomb throwers" and used to shape and gauge public opinion. When a particular position does not go over well as being too extreme, the "mainstream moderates" get to distance themselves from the rhetoric. If the position is not seen as extremist, the mainstream can take to position that 'everyone agrees.'

      This is my perception. It is quite possible that I'm in error, but I think the track record of pro-Zionism is wanting to have it both ways. How often is a criticism of Israel dismissed based only on the fact that it happens to be a position that say, David Duke espouses?

      Imagine if mainstream Zionist thought had to be filtered through the hate sites espousing its merits.

      What would remain?

    • I thank you for the correction, all. When I listed "The Forward" I was actually meaning to list "Frontpage" - link to

      The site David Horowitz's now defunct "Real News" redirects to.

    • hopmhi,

      I'll examine your contention and reevaluate my position if needed. Can you offer a mainstream site that actually advocates a rejection of Zionism (or at least discusses it as a viable alternative to the status quo)?

    • FYI,

      Look at the rogue's gallery of links here -

      link to

      Like I stated, the "credible" ones are intermingled with the more reactionary ones.

    • hopmhi -

      I would posit that the following sites differ largely in matter of degree, but not in any meaningful way. The "fringe sites" might chastize the others for not taking an extreme enough position, but that in itself allows the "mainstream" sites the credibility of "moderation."

      Like I said, fringe sites can expouse to most hateful rhetoric, but they all present a unified front on the unquestioning support of Zionism.

      The Jewish Daily Forward - link to

      Jewish World Review - link to

      Think Israel - link to

      Israpundit - link to

      Samson Blinded - link to

      Israellycool - link to

      A.I.S.H. - Americans & Israeli - Strength & Honor - link to

    • I think what angers me as much as anything, is that if a proponent for justice for Palestinians says something the least bit harsh regarding Zionists or Zionism, they are immediately and forever equated with neo-Nazis and Stormfront (look at how this site or Norman Finkelstein's is maligned).

      Anyone having any sort of interaction with said sites is then tarred with the same brush and a case is made that any position held by any of them can be dismissed outright based on claims of racism and hate rhetoric.

      Yet these dismissals are a one way street. Look at the hatred promoted by mainstream pro-Zionist sites (let alone the fringe) and all is acceptable. A site called "The Mad Jewess" goes on and on about the good old days (when minorities "knew their place") and out of the other side of her mouth goes off on the hate rhetoric of the left. Her husband even penned a piece about "Never Trust a Black Man" - link to (I think the original used a particularly offensive racial slur) based solely on a broken promise to pay by a person of color. This same sort of insanity and bigotry is on display at a site called "Bare Naked Islam" which gives the most sensational and xenophobic headlines for every single entry.

      My point being that these "fringe sites" actually represent the mainstream of most pro-Zionist thinking. Anyone looking for other ways of conflict resolution is thought of as a coward, traitor, and quisling. Merely offering another view only serves to further inflame their fanaticism.

      They frighten me as they are an unholy combination of arrogance and ignorance.

  • Independent: How Israel takes its revenge on boys who throw stones
    • Having been subjected to laughably mild intimidation by local law enforcement as an adult, and still knowing how unnerving that can be, I can only imagine how uncomfortable and frightening it must be to be at the receiving end of such interrogation and torture tactics for a child.

      And as I stated, though laughably mild, the fear was in wondering just how far they were going to go. What was the upper limit on the humiliation and at what point would it stop? Plus, if I said or did the wrong thing, would it escalate further and the fear of unknown consequences and all that entailed.

      This isn't a frat hazing; this is bullying by state entities that kill and maim children, and their parents, and friends as a matter of course.

  • Kinky Friedman supports Rick Perry because of-- (wake me up when this is over)
  • Liberal Zionists can oppose boycott only by blinding themselves to decades of discrimination
  • The case against circumcision
    • When I was younger and heard about circumcision, I wondered what part they actually cut off. I was not Jewish and did not realize I *was* circumcised (even though my father himself is not) so the confusion was from not knowing what was already missing.

      I've read the different descriptions about what it does for the look of the organ, or the ability to last, or the presumption that it fostered cleanliness and resistance to certain STD's. Most the performers in the pornography I saw were circumcised.

      It wasn't until I read the details on the nerve endings concentrated in the foreskin that I was upset. True, I don't know what I'm missing, and I wouldn't pursue reconstruction because I'm satisfied with the look, but I sincerely wish it was not done. I don't consider my parents guilty of child abuse, but think there is much more credible information available these days and would not object to it being outlawed as a barbaric practice.

      I am an atheist and do not see religious traditions overriding the right of the adult individual to make that choice themselves if they desire.

      I'll be glad when the procedure on children is seen as unconscionable and outdated.

      There's a part in the last "2001: A Space Odyssey" series (3001: The Final Odyssey) where local women want sex with Frank Poole, the astronaut killed by HAL 9000, but are repulsed when they learn his genitals were "mutilated."

  • Islamophobia has deep roots in our pathologies: Americanism, KKK, and supine media
    • Whataya talking about???

      Nary a day goes by that I don’t hear someone bitchin’ about Swissism. Hell, hereabouts they’re even setting up card tables in front of supermarkets, begging you to sign petitions to get rid of the Swissisimists.

      Gawd, how I love a good belly laugh. Thx.

    • This virulence seems the primary common aspect of groups and commenters going on about how the sky is falling and their rabid hatred is proof positive of their unassailable patriotism.

      I am always reminded of Anne Coulter who professes her great love of America but clearly despises and vilifies over half of its citizens because their views differ from hers.

  • Englishman admits he singles out Israel--because his own leaders seem to be Israel's devoted citizens
    • Prior to 9/11, I lazily thought of the Israelis/Zionists as the "white hats" and the Arabs/Muslims as the "black hats."

      Afterward, I felt it woud be important to better understand the politics of the region as it would be the focus of our nation for some time to come. It didn't take much scratchig of the surface to see how one-sided the narrative was. Trying to discuss it online revealed how aggressively the orthodoxy was enforced.

      It doesn't take a whole lot of experiencing the lying and bullying first hand to realize just how prevelant the lies and brownshirt tactics were (with help from a fanatical volunteer army of sayan). Once the curtain was pulled back on Israeli Zionists, it became far easier to deconstruct their BS.

      My pal Bernie the Attorney was pivotal in helping me see the light. His "magic decoder ring" was what he called "the 180 rule". Whatever the Israeli claims were, the truth was most likely the exact opposite.

  • A representation of Israeli soldiers
    • Why indeed.

      Their presence is to show the residents who has the power. Like most police units, intimidation is a substantial weapon.

    • Audrey - It looks as if he's checking _between_ the fingers. I think that would pretty much constitute "pebbles" or "gravel" rather than "rocks."

    • You must be right. It's the IDF (or border guard wannabes) version of a small town cop breaking a tail light with his nightstick.

      Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.

    • How in the heck do you "check for rocks?" You mean if the person was still holding it? Or if there was "rock dust" on their hands like the way they can check for gunpowder residue after firing a handgun?

      If it's the latter, then it seems insane as anyone in the area is bound to have some sort of dirt/debris on their palms.

  • The Larry David peace plan
    • Deconstructing humor is serious business but I laughed at the line, "F#ck me like Israel f#cked my country!"

    • The part of that episode that struck me as odd (but in a way making sense), was that at the very end Larry would even have to think about the choice between the sexy 3-some with the Palestinian/Arabic woman and her sister or to go over to the side with the shrill & obnoxious character Susie (Essman) "Greene" and the rest (Susie hates his guts and treats him like crap but thinks he *must* show solidarity with the tribe).

      I think Larry (the character) knows that the Jewish deli is *not* "sacred ground" and that having a business enterprise named for and owned by Palestinians open across the street is not an issue to get worked up over, and yet Larry (the character) knows that even he must tread carefully around cultural peculiarities of his "people" lest he be forever ostracized amongst them.

      I would contrast that with a scene I saw in some documentary about "ongoing" anti-Semitism where the director/producer was trying to get support/comments from various Jewish notables and it showed the filmmaker talking to Larry David on the phone as he was flabbergasted to hear that Larry David did not wish to be involved and that he made it a point not to participate in programs such as that.

      I was pleasantly surprised to know that Mr. David went against the grain in that regard. Anyone remember the name of the doc? I couldn't find it on IMDB.

  • Daily Kos, anti-semitism, & the zombie peace process
    • The pro-Zionist who was part of my banning was also gay, with a gay advocacy site. My arguments about the cause of justice for other oppressed groups totally fell on deaf ears. He was also particularly snotty about it in that he acted as if having this additional power carried no particulr obligation with it other than to promote his own pro-Zionist agenda.

    • My friend Bernie the Attorney often explained that if money was the only agenda, the Z-teamers would not come out on top so often. Money, coupled with a singularity of purpose across the board is what's involved. He pointed out that the echo chamber is a critical piece in determining what resonates and what does not.

    • Absolutely. PuffHo may let in a piece outside the official narrative every so often, but the level of gatekeeping on the comments was/is extreme.

    • My experience with the D-Kozynists was that chosenites, both mods and commenters, could easily shackle anyone speaking a little too plainly about the Z-team. I had a member write a diary about my supposed Holocaust denial and was fortunate enough to have someone else lead the way with debunking these claims as most my replies almost instantly were hidden/disappeared. The banning came a short time later.

      The scale of attempts at thought control is pretty much across the board with this crew (micro and macro). Look at all that has been acheived and continues in that vein as far as outlawing very specific worldviews, but in fact succeeds in overeaching to degree that to have an anti-Zionist thought is claimed to be just cause to bring down the wrath of G_aw_d if they could actually pull it off.

      Instead, they act as "agents of G_d" as religionism continues to be useful to those who need a widely popular belief that justifies so much hatred of the other (including the secular ) and use their power to further restrict dissent. Adherants not using 'sacred texts' to fuel hatred can be dismissed as apostates anyway (and the secular cardinal sin of treason can be applied). Kos tries to exploit credibility in other areas to carry the water on this issue.

      Finally, some of the recent other threads (or basically *any* current events in Israel) got me thinking about the old anti-fascists movies of the '40's. You could pretty much keep the script virtually the same and have the IDF and the Knesset play the roles of state bullies and thugs; silencing critics and opposition, making examples of those who would resist their sub-human status, etc., denying the master plan as they work towards a final solution (don't go away mad, just go away...but still have your papers in order).

      It's a whole new level of "Bizarro World"- but terrifyingly's real.

  • Small tribute to Amy Amy Amy
    • My reaction was in comparing her "wasted youth" legacy (talented or not) with those who are in a constant fight for their lives without all the other "perks" that she had.

      I recently read the quote that the only philosphy is whether to kill yourself or not. Even slow-motion suicide falls into that category.

  • Liberal Jewish media moralists could do more home cookin
    • On a related sidenote, I heard the execrable analogy again when Brad Freidman of was subbing for Mike Malloy on his radio show.

      I wrote this on the bradblog link.

      Enjoyed your filling in for the Malloy program but had problems with one comment/analogy.

      You repeated what I first heard on Bill Maher's show which is that the GOP intransigence on raising the debt ceiling was like the Palestinians turning down the best deal they could hope for at Oslo. Regardless of whether *any* of that fits (which is arguable as the "generous" Oslo Agreement is thought of as otherwise by those who understand how Israel offered a generous portion of the miniscule fraction of territory to be RETURNED to the Palestinians), there is too much that is tragically dissimilar to be so flippant.

      It seems the meme desired to be aimed at progressives is that the self-serving GOP (a known evil) is comparable to the indignities that the Palestinians have suffered. They deserve so much better.

      Btw, would you be comfortable with the analogy, "Boehner's last minute temper tantrum was like the Israeli's breaking the Gaza ceasefire and blaming it on the Palestinians."?

      (with a few spelling corrections here)

      I was offended that such comments cheapen the plight of all Palestinians in a way that supposedly progressive voices should be more sensitive to.

  • Do we not write letters? (Or do the papers not print 'em?)
    • Do we not write letters? (Or do the papers not print ‘em?)

      I think we know the answer to that already (or was the question rhetorical?).

      @dbroncos - Thanks for the heads-up. I learn so much from those many commenters who unfortuantely quite often don't make it past the gatekeepers.

      Sometimes I think the bias in the print version gets let off the hook when they can claim that those views were in evidence online, even though a great many readers of the publication do not necessarily seek out additional comments online.

  • 2 pictures of children
    • dim - this is what I feel the legal status of stone throwing by a child at a heavily armed IDF soldier (or quite often armored carrier or tank) is comparable to as the act is meant to highlight acts of Israeli injustice (not meant as a tactical assault on IDF forces).

      One day, Mikhail got fed up with his local Communist Party Commissar and called him an idiot. He was promptly arrested by the KGB and sentenced to 15 years in the Gulag -- 5 years for insulting the commissar, ten for revealing a state secret.

  • Thinktank that promoted war w/ Iraq (& now Iran) was funded by Steinhardt, Saban, Bronfman, Feith and Marcus (of Home Depot)
    • Thanks for the additional info TS. I like your actions to support local enterprises and will try to do likewise myself much more in the future.

      I would like to see a viral ad campaign showing all the items at Lowes or Home Depot forbidden to the Palestinians by Israel because it's been deemed as having potential for use by terrorists.

      I wonder what would be left to actually purchase?

    • Looks as if I'll have to start patronizing Lowe's exclusively (Home Depot's competition)

  • Israel 'maintains an apartheid regime,' Israeli general says in 'Haaretz'
    • There are a few notable examples from the GOP. Barry Goldwater distanced himself from the religious right. Reagan's budget director David Stockman has been vocal about Republican financial foolishness. Paul Craig Roberts has broken ranks with much of the GOP conventional wisdom. There are others as well and not all (including those listed) fit the mold of crocodile tears after the fact.

      But, overall, I concede your point that mostly those with a viable conscience in the first place wrestle with such matters (or choose to go public). Although sometimes, it just has to do with timing. Alan Dershowitz acknowledged the basics of the Armenian genocide when it became to difficult to claim otherwise.

    • My pal Bernie the Attorney tends to agree with you. He says that most people find their conscience after they have already profited from their previous behavior and quite often when it is too late for anything to be done about it.

      BTW, your English is fine. Perfectly understandable.

      Love your handle too.

      “We are star-stuff” ~ Dr. Carl Sagan

    • I hope Jimmy Carter can use this to countersue for the nuisance lawsuit he was subjected to for publishing his book, "Peace Not Apartheid".

      see: link to


      link to

      "I have been called a liar, I have been called an anti-Semite [and] I have been called a bigot. I have been called a plagiarist. I have been called a coward. Those kind of accusations, they concern me, but they don't detract from the fact the book is accurate and is needed." He added, "Not one of the critics of my book has contradicted any of the basic premises -- that is the horrible persecution and oppression of the Palestinian people and secondly that the formula for finding peace in the Middle East already exists." ~ Jimmy Carter

  • Israel seizes last flotilla boat in int'l waters 40 miles from Gaza
    • Sadly, by setting the bar on the previous flotillas at murder, anything Israel does subsequent to to that seems restrained by comparison.

      The people participating are exceptionally courageous as Israel could choose to again lower the bar as it is able to act in such a heinous manner free from any consequences.

  • Hasbara is in the American wallpaper-- even in well-meaning stories on public radio
    • Almost every day I see some hasbara in the wallpaper. On this last week's "Real Time with Bill Maher", he was taking very accurate political shots at the deserving, but also regurgitated one false analogy that made me cringe. He said that GOP debt ceiling obstructionists were just like the Palestinians of the Oslo Accords. They were both ignoring fair and sensible deals just to be obstinate.

      That’s the danger of those who tell some truths because it allows their lies and propaganda to be accepted uncritically.

  • Turkish Jews say that when Israel does bad stuff, they get blamed as 'Israelites'
  • The method in Netanyahu’s madness: Israel rules out non-violence
    • All the crocodile tears over yet another variation of, "We support justice, but this is not the right way to go about it."

      This new "not the right way" is because it might be A) effective, and B) not give Zionists the "moral high ground."

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