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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Migros was always my favorite Swiss supermarket. So I may have been attracted wittingly or unwittingly for deeper reasons?
I struggled with the Nazi vocabulary, believe me. But at one point I really felt it was unfair to blame, if you allow me to slightly personalize, words. I would like to suggest that Lebensraum outside the context of the Nazis is really such a word. Isn't it chosen precisely for it's positive connotations, what could be wrong with space to live? Remember what it stood for and what it hid, way beyond the Holocaust and the extinction of other unwanted live, e.g. how many dead Latvians, Lithuanian, Russians, to pick just a few? But was it really the word's fault?
consider: Propaganda 101: What You Need to Know and Why or . . . The Word, by Gene Howington.
The artist is Gunter Demnig, Stolpersteine, stones to make you stumble, stumbling stones. He lived in my street for ages. He moved further out one or two years ago, I think.
I still remember when my friend, a painter, came back one evening from his local bar around the corner, saying: I think Gunter has a great idea. That's when it all started. And of course it started in Cologne. In Munich the Council of German Jews caused a little trouble, they didn't like the idea that "the victims figuratively would be stepped on again," or something similar.
pabelmont, the heated US discourse about Trayvon Martin shooting keeps me from paying enough attention lately.
But since it is really rare to see Phil in a pessimist mood, and since you mention the Germans.
For me and others the the construction of "Israeli modernity" versus the "Arab village" has deep ultimately German orientalist or antisemitic roots. (I've mentioned Eyal Gil's highly interesting study The Disenchantment of the Orient, or Gil Anidjar's smaller study: Semites, race, religion and literature, quite often before in this context)
Consider this, can't you simply replace German know-how and work ethics with Jewish know how and work ethics, a meme the dominating Jekkes carried along as a cultural burden?
German Jews and the Claims of Modernity, Jonathan M. Hess.
Could you explain, Moose? What exactly is the difference--notice in America*--between liberal and progressive. I had the impression they are used synonymously, or is that only from a conservative to right perspective?
* I mean what to say about Obama being a Communist?
I once noticed that Daniel Pipes and David Horowitz want to make Bernard Lewis' books compulsory reading in every class in Middle East Studies.
These guys are so sick. Hating Whitey ideologue David Horowitz honors Islamophobe Robert Spencer and White-America-falls-apart Charles Murray.
What about this?
"Ladies and Gentlemen, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then what is it?" Mr Netanyahu asked. "That's right, it's a duck - but this duck is a nuclear duck. And it's time the world started calling a duck a duck."
Speaking of Iranian ducks:
In his latest Iran report over here (04/2012) an German-Iranian friend wrote that the numbers of people in Iran watching the BBC's Farsi program, created in 2009, have doubled in one year. The numbers suggest that every fourth Iranian watches the BBC's program.
Given the constant pressure against Iran, it's no big surprise Ahmadinejad, lost in the last election, with one third of the population not voting, against the even more conservative camp.
Some will remember, we had someone here (the initials will suffice: RW) who constantly attacked us that putting pressure on Israel would only force them to move to the right. Now obviously this wasn't something he felt about Iranians, the Iranian nuclear program was after is far to dangerous, to give it people a chance for him. This seems to be the future president. Since Ahmadinejad's power is already gone, maybe people here can adjust their focus on what the real or future powers say.
Yes, I've read that in multiple variations by now, and was close to comment on Sarah's blog. But would it be of any use?
I have to admit that I was shocked by his use of the word annihilation, I am also slightly tired that we always have to state it.
Problem is, we do not have a level playing field in this context. Israel can constantly claim, for (how many exactly?) many years now, that Iran tries to annihilate it. Israel, of course, can always claim that, but obviously Iran never could, it happens to be bigger. What was the exact way Sarah put it? So there is a certain amount of rhetorical unfairness involved.
I'd suggest that you start to ponder Israeli and it's hawkish supporter's psychology.
Concentrate on the term war games, Grass uses. Here is a summary post on the Iranian threat issue by Pat Lang, from 7 November 2011, but you can back and read the whole collection about Iran over the years Several Points
"Germans" & "Israeli's, or pro-Israel hawks generally", may share the idea of never-again. But let's concentrate on the difference. For us Germans that means never again to be perpetrators, to you--or the above group--it means never again victim. That may well contain the possibility to perpetrate something one could regret after. The submarines, by the way, are the latest development that can be equipped with nuclear warheads.
no mistake, a check.
There is always something wrong with arguing along ideological party-lines. I still would be interested in his chapter (s?) about Obama, obviously his intentions were different, but he got stopped.
I still think that Beinart is a breeze of fresh air. Does anyone know more about the author?
This I found interesting, among many other things:
valuable additional remark, Shmuel.
Grass' in one of the interviews here on TV mentioned Fried as the last of his examples of the literary traditions he sees his prose poem in. You really didn't know Fried? Then you must be a lot younger than I am. He translated too. His Shakespeare translation is the only complete modern translation post romantics I know of. I do not like Illner (ZDF) very much, but tonight the Grass' prose poem will be the topic of her talk. Friedman, I suspect, will declare Grass' an antisemite, but it seems he will be left on his own , not even the also present Avi Primor follows him there.
It would be interesting to take a closer look at, how the New York Daily News treated the Debbie Almontaser case.
Their central Almontaser link slightly puzzles me?
How is Caribbean talent and and this piece related to Almontaser?
City Briefs: Bullied boy's ma sues
Posted on 2008-03-04 01:59:08
A mother who blamed schoolhouse bullies for her son's 2006 suicide plunge into the East River Monday sued the city for $10 million. Read More
This is a very, very strange story. But interesting man it seems, I missed his contributions here.
I hate to admit it, but I am slightly relieved we don't have to struggle with him anymore. ... On his blog he used a trick, censoring my mails to be able to write: I had stated that he lied. But "the left" is still the main target of this self-styled liberal. For him probably even Daniel Pipes is a liberal, or as he writes a "real" liberal, not one in danger of leaning towards the right.
Haaretz: Carl Perkal, Daniel Pipes' attack on Israeli Arabs is baseless and inflammatory
based on:
Washington Times: PIPES: Israel’s Arabs, living a paradox, Ethnic minority resent Judaism but value nation’s economic opportunities
Reading Pipes, Horowitz, and others in the post 911 world was as painful as reading Richard Witty over the years.
Was bist denn du für einer?
I missed that Phan mentioned the The Forward article, yes indeed. I left my comment "scent" high up.
Brilliant Phan, as always. The manipulative patters are always similar, also the accompanying hypersensitivity. The JP too, often doesn't seem to want the facts, the story as it is, but prefers the colorful variants that better serve its larger intentions.
Concerning your list, I hope you passed your article on to the listed institutions? No? What about the death threats; Death Threats - Florida:
And I ask our lawyers isn't this a case of libel too, as far as the media is concerned?
thanks, Inanna, I didn't know about the many Palestinian villages destroyed even inside Israel till very late in my life.
Yes, "knockout rhythm", indeed. What a pity we do not understand what the song is about.
Thanks for the link How I Spent the War A recruit in the Waffen S.S.
by Günter Grass June 4, 2007, I think that was on your blog piece about the Grass affair, by the way, Philip.
Yes, it doesn't seem fit, but it's not my invention either, but someone says so, who actually knows quite a bit about the revolution, since he was involved in it, founded a party there which created much interest and returned to Germany shortly before the Mullah's took over. You can ask him if you like. Another Wikipage that needs care: Bahman Nirumand. His German Wikipedia page is slightly more clean, since over here he is quite well known. He went to highschool and studied in Germany. A book of his was very influential in the protest against the Shah in Berlin in 1967 that led to the killing of Benno Ohnesorg. The Shah's SAVAK was all over the place and German police stood back. I met Bahman some years later.
strong words, welcome in the Mondoweiss comment section Rick Berman. ;)
Annie, I only used your links. The Shavit link doesn't work.
The gassing reference stands for the whole support of Iraq by America, it feels, which was Mossadeq all over again. Some Iranians, I know, are convinced the Iran-Iraq war ultimately brought the Mullahs to power. Cohen sees all this very, very clearly...
Goldberg and Shavit only play on our nerves as if they were fiddle-strings.
thanks Annie, that must indeed be the origin for Goldberg's and in turn Shavit's irritations with Roger Cohen. How can he dare to disturb their propagandistic circles? They have a marching order after all, does he have one? ;)
My thought, Annie, since I already wrote it may I paste it here?
I trust Avi Shavit, about as much as I trust Jeffrey Goldberg.
Ran HaCohen described Shavit as the "rhinocerised Ha'aretz journalist Ari Shavit" (in The Auschwitz Logic). He has also described him as "a loyal mouthpiece of any leader in power" (in an article entitled Mid-Eastern Terms). On 7 August 2003, in a posting to the Alef electronic discussion forum, Ran HaCohen included Shavit in a list of writers whom he characterised as either hypocrites or opportunists.:
Is the more important message in his Roger Cohen link actually this:
So temperatures are rising in Jerusalem. As time is running out the Goldberg scenario becomes more and more likely. What he hears from his sources, and what I hear from my sources, lead us to believe the coming summer is a crucial one. If senior Israelis are now shouting gewald, American decision makers and opinion leaders had better pay close attention.
The idyllic introduction reminds me of the journalism Karl Kraus faught in the times leading up to WWI and it's celebration of war. Let's hope Bibi only wants not only the Iron Dome but also the Magic Wand from the US, and that is all what it is about. Maybe his allusion to Cohen is only a trick to get this core message over. Of course the image of being protected doesn't make you the hero of old. So there is still hope for Jeffrey, he can celebrate in summer.
The French collaborated.
Just as they had a rather strong resistance, but that of course doesn't matter in your tale, since there are no numbers how many were deported for forced labor or straight into the camps in Germany or elsewhere. Or shot right on the spot.
Other than not continuing to run the death camps, once captured, the world did nothing to save the Jews, except for Denmark (who did large scale evac), it was a few individuals here and there, nothing widespread.
Yes, it's of course collectively the Danes, strictly your collective perspective reminds me of the Nazis: the Poles, the Slaves, ... the forgotten Communists, Socialist and resistance fighters whose numbers no one ever collected. The Nazis also used collective punishment on groups for what one of them had done, to make them subjugate to their power, if any of them were left after such actions.
In the case of Denmark about 2000 Danish policemen paid the price and ended up in camps. But the Danes couldn't have done it without the help from this Nazi or party member. But I guess now it get's slightly too complicated for you, correct?
The Polish were more enthusiastic mass murderers than even the Germans were.
Yad Vashem ignores Polish victims, like many others, is that your source?
The American Holocaust Museum is slightly more objective concerning "the Polish" as victims:
The Nazis viewed Poles and other Slavic peoples as inferior, and slated them for subjugation, forced labor, and eventual annihilation. Poles who were considered ideologically dangerous (including thousands of intellectuals and Catholic priests) were targeted for execution in an operation known as AB-Aktion. Between 1939 and 1945, at least 1.5 million Polish citizens were deported to German territory for forced labor. Hundreds of thousands were also imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps. It is estimated that the Germans killed at least 1.9 million non-Jewish Polish civilians during World War II.
pabelmont, I can't open the comments on any of my browsers either (Firefox, Nightly, Opera, Chrome), and I am on Windows 7, 64. Seems I am already registered but logging in doesn't change anything either. Just as Annie's link lead me to the same page view as Phil's. Comments closed. Hand icon appearing but clicking does not open the comments section.
Well, eljay, strictly he formulates it as a question, not as a statement.
Does the nuclear power of Israel
endanger the already delicate world peace?
simple answer, citizen, I like some Israelis, and I like some Iranians, I don't like any group en masse, least of all us Germans, but I surely don't like their leaders, I mostly don't like mine, I don't like religious fundamentalists of any stripe. I wish people would resolve conflicts instead of starting wars. Yes, I am a dreamer. I wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, although I was recently pleasantly surprised by his son. Amazing, one man! I find it hard to trust people that once in their life spread racist thought for money and populism. And I sometimes wonder, why for several years now, I find it so hard to simply ignore power, warmongering and politics.
And I just received this link via mail from Israel, wrote two long responses, and I think I will never see the name in my mailbox again.
Jeez, maybe Churchill was right when he said “The Germans, they are either at your throat or at your feet.”
Since you have Germans among your ancestors you no doubt must know it from experience. Does it still show in your case? Why should I like him, do I have to?
Did Hitler or Stalin ever make such a public declaration about any country or people it sought to control? Imperial Japan or Mussolini’s Italy?
Your blood pressure clearly dwindles your intelligence. Relax.
I am not for sanctions and I am not for an attack either by the US or by Israel or by both, since people that I trust tell me that the pressure from the outside actually keeps the mullah's in power.
2. Israel HAS threatened Iran with annihilation. Israel has carried out rogue attacks on Iraq’s nuclear plant at Osirik, and an unauthorized attack on an alleged nuclear facility in Syria.
Now what is it, has Israel threatened Iran with annihilation or to attack it's nuclear facilities Osirik style?
I am not suffering from Holocaust sickness, don't you worry, but neither will I embrace people like Ahmadinejad purely for condemning Israel. I once wrote that the Mossad couldn't invent a better opponent, and I still think that is the case, although lately he seems to be out of the limelight, and maybe is more controlled himself.
1. Somehow, Augstein flips “Israel preparing a war against Iran” into “Iran threatening Israel.”
Look, Without Walls, I didn't notice this before, neither have I looked at the exact timeline of the Ahmadinejad - Israel propaganda war, but Augstein may have been shocked, as I was by Ahmadinedshad's tale at the UN among other things, he also may not like a special nitwit camp of Holocaust revisionists. Which doesn't mean that I prefer the Israeli propaganda. ...
And if I may add, I was shocked by passages of Grass' statement too, like suggesting, strictly he doesn't, since he only writes about the submarine's capabilities to direct all-annihilating nuclear weapons to were the existence of not one single bomb is proven, that Israel's intention is to completely annihilate Iran. Now this may be picking up Israel's imagery, and it's reliance on the Holocaust to make the threat more real, but he suggests a complete annihilation of Iran by Israel nevertheless. But I think he willingly ignored the tiny Israel argument in this context, which gives Israel another propaganda advantage in the debate.
After I had slightly recovered from the shock after reading it the first time, I realized Grass' had to exaggerate if he wanted to have the reaction, he now has. I also realized he had formulated carefully, concerning this issue. He asks a question: Is Israel threatening ...? Just as a writes about "capabilities" of the submarines only.
I respect Augstein a lot, and he really did what Grass' intended, he initially complained that not the content of his poem was discussed. Now this is exactly what Augstein does, as did others and nut all nullified his suggestion that "Israel intended the complete annihilation of Iran, see above.
Augstein from my perspective is one of the best journalists on the left we have over here, just as his weekly Freitag is one of the best papers, small (compared to Die Zeit) but with quality, if you ask me. And someone should tell Gideon Levy, that the Welt is not a paper, he should publish in, I could give him a list of some were his stories would be better received even in the conservative field.
I don't have more time now, to look into your argument. Maybe I do later.
There is a really good article by Jakob Augstein on Spiegel Online:
Why We Need an Open Debate on Israel
This is what Grass' wants.
Nietzsche and the Nazis 1 of 2 (VIDEO, 1:11:24) – link to youtube.com
Interesting, he at least doesn't leave out that the Nazis actually lost votes in the Nov 1932 election, but he clearly leaves out the post-Reichstags-Fire-laws, with the resulting prosecution of the socialists, the closing of their press which made the 1933 elections not really free elections anymore, as he suggests. ...
I am not quite sure about Heidegger either, I think he was an opportunist, ditto Hauptmann. At least I do not know of his support of the Nazis before 1933. And I am still waiting for Nietzsche who was misused by the Nazis with a little help by his sister. Why not Arthur Schopenhauer? When Nietzsche wrote he couldn't foresee the Nazis. Remember he wasn't a fan of Wagner's propagation of German culture.That's why he was quite popular among Jewish Germans too. But he uses Nietzsche for his title. Maybe that's why you got me to watch this to the end to find out why he choose the title.
thanks Alex, this is important. The MEK is very active over here again too, collecting.
But brilliant analysis by Glenn Greenwald. A must read.
concerning the Bush administration, this really does not surprise me. But how could the US avoid that its intelligence is passed on, if it is shared in the first place?
So I think the title of Finkelstein’s book is a bit of wishful thinking.
Ira, don't forget the last decade, the absolute high about the close alignment of power between Israel and the US. Don't forget that Israel has become the visible motor now for the drive against Iran. They only thing that could shift matters again is, if Obama indeed--as the Israeli's mouthpiece Goldberg suggests--is dissembling while secretly plotting with Netanyahu an attack, the only disagreement being the right time. He only wants to be elected first to do what must be done. I am not completely prepared to believe that this is Obama's intention; nor do I believe the Israelis think so.
Eva, I find myself agreeing with you completely. Considering our occasional clashes some years ago, this is interesting.
My favorite English quote is: Every cloud has got a silver lining. Now the silver lining accompanying the success of Dershowitz and his attack dogs is, Norman Finkelstein has much more time to do his favorite work: archeological science. We all know to what extend the mistakes in scholarship are relied on and repeated over and over again. Who has the time to study the origins of every argument? But he surely has expertise by now, that helps him spot more curious matters, and thus focus his attention.
I can't deny I am somehow pleased about the outcome. Thank you, Alan Dershowitz! It also shows the limits of power. They surely can stop him as a prof, but they can't stop the scholar. Of course I pre-ordered, and admittedly can't wait to read it.
And if he wants to pretend that the majority of signatories to the letters to Clinton pushing for an invasion of Iraq way back when are tried and true Israeli firsters that is his problem and denial.
Kathleen, you use the term Israel firsters, could you define it. Do the many non-Jews on the list indeed have Israel's interest in mind first? How do you know? Are you suggesting the many non-Jews on the list, are somehow bought by AIPAC or the larger Jewish lobby? How do you know?
Finkelstein has cited the fact that, in many cases, the. Lobby hasn’t been able to call the shots or seal the deal on US foreign policy regarding Iran, & etc.
I agree, the best point would be Iran. If you studied the neocons closely, and they really were shouting at the top of their mouth over the years, Iran was always considered the more important enemy. Iraq simply was meant as a step on the way, at least that was the impression of this nitwit. But they haven't succeeded yet.
Do you know Robert Dreyfus' interview with Keith Weissman, Hostage? The only thing, I do not completely trust in context is his allusion to Kohl, I think Kohl may have been double-dealing with the export-surplus interests of Germany in mind. But I am no political science scholar.
If you want to keep the strong support of America, isn't it a realistic scenario that you carefully choose exactly the topics were the interest of the pro-Israel elites and American elites in fact touch? Wouldn't it be stupid to not ignore American interest?
To a certain extend the lobby thesis had to be published. It was a simple and observable fact that Jewish voices dominated the debate. Many neocons and their assorted supporters in the most diverse fields, like "Objectivist" Yaron Brook (who even surprised O'Reilly: Wouldn't that make us Nazis?), were Jewish Americans, Israelis, or both. No doubt media-wise they were the most visible force and the most rabid supporters of American empire and war against the Arab world. Because they consider beloved Israel as the absolute expert in the post 911 world, not just on the "Arab mind" (new Orientalism) but also on dealing with terrorism and the world expert on security? Israel was chosen to take care of Greek security during the Olympic games. The whole post 911 US world was mainly a seize the day scenario, and Israel surely is at the center, but did it manage to drive the whole process, I doubt too? Military complex "Condi" was "pleased" she could embrace the future enemy in the post-cold-war world, and Condi surely is not Jewish, neither are Cheney or Rumsfeld or Rove.
you are the only one, were "+Show content" but nothing else shows, this makes me very sad. Was it an empty no-comment note? Or is it a bug? But I have to leave anyway. Take care.
Mutually Assured Destruction is hardly reassuring and containment might work better if Iran were located half a world away next door to North Korea,
wondering, from the military experts, I sometimes visit, I heard the argument that mutual deterrence actually prevents wars. If we take the one hot period under Kennedy out, it seems to fit. On the other hand, there is a reason for Dr. Strangelove, remember? The question is, can we be sure our leaders are always in their right minds?
rather than right near the Straits of Hormuz and close enough to send weapons to Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas.
I doubt Hezbollah and Hamas have the capabilities to handle nukes. Are you indicating Iran could tinker something that would be easier to transport and use? , So far the whole dirty bombs scenario is a mind-child of the West. Are they experimenting? Maybe we should carefully watch our own secret facilities?
I don't think Grass' poem is good, maybe it was written in a hurry, but I understand his fear. Western hypocrisy, and the fact that before demanding the world stop Iran's development, Israel should officially admit its own capabilities and allow the world's inspection. Or is that possibility not on their adminstration's West-East-Clash-horizon? Remember, Obama invited him to America to a conference for nuclear proliferation. I understand Grass' fear, I occasionally had fears of another world war in the larger scenario, lately mainly created by Israel's activities,
again, if I do not buy into Goldberg's (or his Israeli partners) meme, that Obama is feigning and wants to attack anyway.
concerning blood libel and Pesach, he initially offered it to DIE Zeit, the feuilleton crowd accepted it for publication, but they were stopped higher up, Giovanni diLorenzo, the editor and advertisement image of Die Zeit. Someone, I don't like very much and as long as I read the paper, I considered pretty close to the neocons in many ways. All this must have postponed the publication, so whoever arguments this way should look closer.
Yes, Annie, a commander or whoever told him to get rid of his uniform, and he did. The SS had a special "education arm" too, I read some of their stuff. I am sure this archive is heavily studied since his book appeared. His division: 10. SS-Panzer-Division Frundsberg.
But Winnica's argument is silly nevertheless. Since I doubt they had much time for education from Oct. 1944 till February 20 something, when he was wounded. My father, same age as Grass', got picked up by older soldiers in the same time frame, when his whole troop was gone, and he was terrified he could be shot as deserter the further he moved away. They found out that my father was a rather good draftsman. His first order was to falsify the call-up, they were tired and didn't want to go were they were sent. This was among the stories my father told us. The man and the checkpoint looked rather long on the paper, my father was terrified he noticed. They had sent him to present it. Finally he nodded at him they could pass. Till the day he told us he was sure he knew. No one was sent to where they wanted to go Czechoslovakia at that time. But the older soldiers were all from Vienna and all they wanted was to go home, so they tried to get at least close to it.
The SS was among the most feared by Germans too, but that of course is nothing one should mention.
Winnica, we are talking about Germany in October 1944. By that time there weren't hardcore Germans left to go over to the "elite" corps with flying flags. There surely were fanatical Hitler youth, but they hardly waited till they were conscripted. In fact at that point in time the Waffen SS had to take what it could get all over the place not just in Germany.
I don't correct German's first channel, I don't want to mend all links in the process, I don't to correct anything else for the same reason.
lysias, and everbody who understands German, there are obviously many, many features all over the German first channel. There is already an interview online by NDR the local northern channel, belong to the first channels ARD. Günter Grass nimmt Stellung.
He says two factors made him publish it, first Natanyahu's statement to have the right to a first strike to defend Israel, and that the American government accepted this claim. I think it's slightly more difficult, as the latest "point-of-no-return-Goldie" missives show, if one doesn't completely trust his idea that Obama is dissembling.
Second was the delivery of the submarine. The link to further clips Grass get's you MDR (also belonging to the ARD channels), were his statement is, as stated by the chairman of the Jewish community in Leipzig, is equivalent to Hitler's statements.
Aspekte is ZDF the second channels culture magazin, SAT3 belongs to this channel. ZDF Mediathek I think Aspekte will only be online tonight. There is a short interview Tom Segev too.
SAT 3 Mediathek directly. A longer feature where Grass is given time to defend himself.
This is of course only the gist of it.
sorry, for stumbling into your thread loudmouthed and eyes half open only. Of course this would belong down here. And since I cannot take it back, excuses, if it felt insensible: Happy Pesach.
Ooops, why did I put a question mark behind this? Now it fits.
David, I have something for you to make them think. It's always bad to block out reality. I think Norman is right, the momentum should be used to help the Palestinians?
Matthew, I wouldn't mind a hole series of reviews. I am not yet convinced I have to read the book. Although I appreciate the debate, and people's special perspective on it.
Austin, that's sounds interesting too. I am definitively not going to read the book. Thus I would definitively appreciate another piece.
I also really take issue with the way he talks about Palestinian refugees
That's the topic I would find really interesting.
If you haven't watched the interview Annie mentions above on Shalom TV by Rabbi Golub with Peter Beinart, please do so. Watching that was very, very painful for me. I had to stop and resume the next day. It's embedded in Phil's American spirit. What an intellectual burden the believe must be that the Jewish community collectively is good, while all the evil is always only lying in wait out there.
Aren't these two subjects somehow related, I wonder.
What do you think about Slater's statement, David?
Amazing, and so sad. I had to read it several times, since I couldn't believe. So his only mistake was to ask? Interesting glimpse into the mindset of the American elites. The West-Eastern mindset as long as you are part of the elite. Makes me feel very, very miserable.
Anti-Americanism = antisemitism as was suggested in the post-911 world. It has been there all along. The "good" powerfully successful (the mono-oligarchy circles of old) versus the "evil", ugly and envious. America the success story, Israel the success story + miracle. With all that land belonging to no one, and it shouldn't take it?
very, good piece Bruce.
Pat Lang writes, that the military will not let this at to happen, it would threaten the assets they amassed. If history can teach any lectures, a revolution must not necessary change anything for the better. Egypt's military can shop the latest tools in crowd-control in Israel. Maybe help a little with drones in Gaza from its side?
I think it was when I was watching this video of Peter Beinart
Phil, watching this my respect for Beinart grows. Now this is the internal debate inside the Jewish community, RW always demanded. Although he surely would object you show it to us. Compared to Richard he is a huge step ahead.
I am now going to watch this to the very end, although it's heartbreaking, first time I stopped here:
Golub: "We recognize one concept, there has to be a fair trade.
a little later.
Golub: "But in terms of the trade in general my sense is your sense. That certain things will be traded and certain things won't. When we say we start with the green line, that is just a starting point. That's not what we end up with. And I think, that is what the intelligent overwhelming sentiment among the Israelis is. I don't think you give up a very fertile peace of land for an Arab piece of land.
Beinhart: fair enough.
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I've seen all these proposals for land swaps, and they all seem to agree, like swapping the equivalent percentage of the Negev.
I see the emotional bondage: Ariel is such a beautiful Jewish community, the love shows clearly on his face. And isn't the land actually terra nullius? All this land stretching far and wide. So why not take it? And of course always the refrain, we know we are a good people, but do the Palestinians know? - and whatever the Palestinians are, one never ever can't be quite sure about.
Alec, I disagree with Danaa. It's of course close to impossibly to satisfy everybody, but I lately used the date with search-page-feature to scan specific threads for new posts or continuing debates.
I was also slightly puzzled sometimes that if you reply to a specific comment on the "third level"--no idea what the correct technical term would be--that later comments show above much earlier ones. But I understand why it may happen, technically.
Again its hard to satisfy everybody, Sean's voting may be interesting for the occasional visitors. Someone who as Danaa suggests doesn't have too much time, but still is interested in what people think, what they support.
Good job Alec.
You don't need to tell us, Krauss, we have many representatives here maybe you included? Just as our top representative of the average American Jew our cuddly mascot Moose.
as he himself was inciting Palestinians to riot.
I've never heard anything more unlikely. Dr Moustafa Barghouti inciting people? That's ridiculous. I noticed in passing, the IDF didn't even spell his name correctly.
But the first part of the story could actually work. Either as you suggest agents or story for media, a group of Palestinians in the demonstration ready to use violence. I guess if we are honest, it must even leave us ambivalent.
I haven't watched this closely, do some "witnesses" (one witness) say he was inciting people? The people that say so, should be studied very, very closely. It's a real pity we don't have the means of the agencies. Maybe in these kind of demostrations, Palestinians should start to register participants and take photos.
Germany is the home of the German nationality
Who is this this Izig? No hesitation to use Germans as an example anymore?
"Germans" are only the result of post French Revolution nationalist power struggles between Austria and Prussia, or the part of the German speaking people unlucky enough to be left inside the national borders. The native German speakers of Switzerland were more lucky. Slightly less lucky were the native German speakers of Alsace-Lorraine. If we leave out the more complicated Germanic tribal patterns or enclaves of German speakers elsewhere like in Belgium.
The "nationalist" German Question would in time lead to another "nationalist" question: the Jewish question, or more precisely its German variant: Die Judenfrage.
So I wonder, if Germany and the Germans is such a good choice in this context.