Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 744 (since 2009-08-13 23:50:39)

lyn117

wasp

Showing comments 744 - 701
Page:

  • A point by point response to Alan Dershowitz’s 'Ten Reasons Why The BDS Movement Is Immoral'
    • It is negative, it is hurtful, it is wrong and it will be unsuccessful and worse it will push peace away for a very long time.

      Remembering the old adage, "any excuse will do for a tyrant" - when it comes to Israel's efforts towards ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians, it doesn't matter what they do or don't do, Israel will use it as an excuse for more ethnic cleansing and brutal policies.

      @shalom, you're happy to make excuses for the tyrant, I see. Poor Israel - BDS/delegitimization is hurtful and therefore mass murder and terror against innocent civilians because they happen to be non-Jewish Palestinian, even though it started well before BDS, can legititimately continue.

  • US guilty of war crimes in Palestine
  • On the use of provocative analogies (Nazism, fascism)
    • If the motive in killing 15 members of a group was the desire to kill all the members of a group or to see them disappear as an ethnic or racial group, I think you can say it was a genocidal act.

      It isn't a genocide of course under the common definition.

    • Israeli policy may not be genocidal, but there's plenty of evidence that many Israelis have genocidal intent towards Palestinians, including leading religious and political figures. Some in the army undoubtably take their cues from religious and settler leadership who have such genocidal intent.

      I agree that it's nothing like the nazi death camps. Nevertheless, I think you're underplaying the genocidal intent. Suppose global warming raised the sea so that there was absolutely no fresh water in Gaza and people started dying in mass numbers, the Israeli leadership would be quite happy, blame the Palestinians for not spending their resources building alternative sources, despite the fact that Israel bombs water treatment plants that could provide alternative sources.

  • Yale Jewish center to hold 'intellectual' panel on storm over ousted priest's comments-- without inviting the priest
  • ISIS and Israel allies against a Palestinian state
  • Giving up on the system: Leading Israeli human rights groups reject army request to file investigations on crimes in Gaza
  • Hamas is ISIS for dummies
  • I quit my job at the Jewish Community Center over a pro-Israel rally and they called me an anti-semite
    • I think we should get away from deciding for anyone else what their religious or ethnic identity means to them. It's not up to me to decide for any Jews what being Jewish means to them.

      That aside, I do notice that Jewish culture at least in the U.S. is pro-intellectual and pro-education, as opposed to a lot of pop culture that's sort of anti-intellectual, and I do think that the anti-authoritarian and critical strain is stronger among intellectuals (I suppose the tea party with their anti-government philosophy might also be considered anti-authoritarian if uncritically so). So Charlie's belief that being Jewish means being critical and anti-authoritarian has good grounds.

  • Alvin Rosenfeld's Holocaust complaint
    • Darn it, I would not have supported that IJAN ad if I realized it had said Jews were greedy, immoral and sexually perverse.

  • Richard Cohen says he married Israel and has been faithful during ups and downs
    • I surely read the biblical promises differently - my bible say the promise was to the descendants of Abraham of which Palestinians are far more qualified than modern Jews (not that they're really relevant, except to the religiously inclined)

      And certainly Europe made no promise to Jews in the sense Israel took them, that is, virtually all the European promises included at least some provisions for "the existing non-Jewish population" to continue to live in their homes, and their rights respected, instead of what Zionists did and are doing, that is, mass murdering and expelling them. In no way is Israel a fullfillment of any European promise.

    • @JeffB

      I suppose it's no use trying to talk to people enraptured by religious fanatacism such as your, however, the "people of Judah" long ago left Judaism as a religion and their descendants would be today's Palestinians

      I don't know where you get that any biblical promise means it's OK to mass murder non-Jews (i.e., "resurrect" Judaism by creating Israel) anyway.

  • I see five bears
    • I hate to spoil your beautiful story, but bears can be pretty dangerous. At national parks, they always tell me to keep away from mother bears who can be aggressively protective and do not approach. Someone said the bells Native Americans used to sew on their clothes were to give bears warning so they would run off.

      Not as dangerous as people of course.

  • Judaism's hijacking by Zionists drives 70% of secular Jews to marry non-Jews-- Koppman at Huffpo
    • All the Abrahamic religions seem to cherry-pick the bible. Some Christians read the bible and get Jesus' message as forgive those who trespass against you, others read Revelations and say that everyone but the true believers will be killed in a great conflagation and sent to hell. I don't think it's as important what's in the bible as what people believe or are taught. It's not up to me to decide one version is true Christianity over another, anymore than it's up to me to tell anyone else what the true version of Judaism is, or Islam, based on biblical texts.

      (fair notice, I'm an atheist myself)

  • Coming to a campus near you: ADL recruits student politicians for Israel trips
    • If somehow we can combine the person for whom "being Palestinian got me barred from visiting Palestine" with the ADL ...

      Then if they're barred, I wonder if they can sue the ADL for discrimination, get them barred from campus under whatever title it was that StandWithUs was suing campus groups for creating a hostile environment for Jews?

  • 'NYT' op-ed calls on Jews to abandon liberal Zionism and push for equal rights
    • "... liberal Zionism not only lacks agency; worse, it provides cover for the supremacist Zionism dominant in Israel today."

      Liberal Zionism always provided cover for supremacist Zionism.

  • My personal BDS
    • "[The Nakba] was out of a fear (justified or not), in the midst of a fight for a place to build a nation surrounded by enemies and obviously not welcomed from within – a fear that these people may potentially be hostile and harm the Zionist project. "

      She fails to mention that voting while Arab would harm the Zionist project. Within greenline Israel, here were estimated 650,000 Jews, and had they not been evicted an estimated 700,000 Arabs who were ethnically cleansed along with 150,000 or so who managed to stay. Clearly the sole reason

      "Those who were not suspected of being potentially hostile were allowed to stay, so ethnicity is not the issue, the issue is fear, possibly unwarranted but nonetheless very real.”

      If by hostile, she means likely to take up arms against Zionists, this is patently false. The zionists bombed whole neighborhoods and expelled the people in them, regardless of their potential hostility. The most notorious mass murder of the war was against the village of Deir Yassein which had deliberately stayed neutral, and the terrorists who conducted the massacre were well aware of this.

  • 'Lesson: The Jews will defend themselves even if it means killing children'
    • "You can wage an unjust war justly ..."

      No you can't. The example you cited, refusing to kill POWs, was an example of not taking part in war orders, that is, not actually waging war.

    • The rhetorical question, "If you had to kill 70,000 French to end Naziism would you do it." is rather curious. Is he implying Israel is killing innocent Palestinians in order kill what, Palestinianism?

      All this "brilliant" analysis is based on the premise Israel is defending itself. I don't think any neutral observer would say that Israel is defending itself, in expelling non-Jews and expanding its territory.

      It's far from perfect but a more analagous question is, "If you had to kill 10 million non-Aryans in order to defend the Aryan state, would you do it?"

  • Witnessing Gaza
    • Thanks, Betsy, you expressed my thoughts well.

      Human depravity is common, it tends not to get recorded by the governments or people doing it. It's always "the enemy" who's depraved, impure, the instigators against innocent victims (us).

      To say this is the end of [ethical] Jewish history as you know it, perhaps means you left 1948 out of Jewish history? I'm sorry, please don't throw out your ethical tradition with the loss of belief in innocent victimhood.

  • Israel's foundation in a 'terroristic campaign of expulsion, ethnic cleansing and murder' is the 'deep wound in that part of the world' -- Sullivan
    • The claim that Israel is more moral because it does not kill every Palestinian, whereas Hamas would kill every Jew if it had the oppurtunity bothers me.

      I think a fairer question is whether Israel would kill every Palestinian if it thought it could get away with it, absolutely no repercussions. I think it would, certainly it would kill all those who don't give up the right of return, or even claim that Palestine ever existed and they are it's indigenous people.

      It would like for Israel to have been "a land without a people for a people without a land". It would like to erase their existance in Israel. It would rather kill them than allow them that existance.

      Israel is kind of happy to leave a small minority that it can trot out now and then and say, look how enlightened we are.

      And on the other side, a fairer question is would Hamas want to kill every Jew if Israel allowed all Palestinians back under conditions of equal rights regardless of creed and forgiveness for past crimes (but maybe some restoration of land). I think institutionally they would leap at this kind of offer, even though they would like to see Islamic rule.

      None of these questions can be answered with facts. The issue of Israeli "restraint" vs. Hamas "extremism" is just an Israeli talking point - one that can't be countered, because they're untested.

    • I don't really want to defend Saddam Hussein or Assad, but another huge wound was our invasion of Iraq that toppled Hussein. Both Hussein and Assad ruled to keep their power, in a non-sectarian way, don't forget Hussein's foreign minister or something was a Christian. We killed 300,000 and attacked people in Falluja apparently because they were Muslims. The civil war that followed probably brings the death toll up to a million. We support the Isis people when they attack Assad, either indirectly or directly. The destruction of Christian and Yazeedee communities is the fallout from the destruction of Iraq. I put a large part of the blame on the pro-Israel crowd in government, they have been urging us to destroy any possible rivals and are quite happy with the massive chaos. It's not as if the U.S. has historically had any objection to brutal dictators like Saddam Hussein, or present fanatic Islamic rule like the current regime in Saudi Arabia.

      Well, Sullivan sort of allowed Harris to rant on. Interesting how Harris dismisses historical facts such as the Nakba as irrelevant to why people hate Israel while using historical facts such as the Holocaust as complete justification for it. Yeah, right. Israel mass murders people, demolishes their lives and homes and terrorizes them into exile but for some reason those people hate them because they're Jews. Maybe I'll go back and read it further.

      Anyway, this is from article 31 of the Hamas charter that I accessed through Harris's article: "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that. " I don't personally want to live under a religious state as described (I like the U.S.'s freedom of religion so I could become a pagan if I wanted), but on the other hand claims that Hamas is genocidal are off too. And frankly, when it comes to tolerating other religions, historically Islam has done a better job than either Christianity or Judaism.

  • Embedded deception in the BBC’s coverage of Israel's onslaught
    • "Israel is thus using children to break international law and continue its conflict with the Palestine."

      Israel isn't just using children to break international law, it is using them to consolidate conquest of territory by war. So it is using them in acts of aggressive war. Of course the children aren't legitimate targets themselves. But really, which is worse, hiding among civilians in a defensive war, which Hamas does (there being no where else), or employing civilians in aggressive war, which Israel does?

      Many of the settlers are armed, I think that might make them combatants too if it does for a Palestinian. Settlers are "participating in fighting" regardless (the children, one presumes, because their parents dragged them into it). Human rights organizations never make such a distinction, they designate settlers as "civilians" regardless of whether they are armed or regular members of armed groups, such as settlements.

  • 'One nation, one state, one leader' -- frightening slogan at Tel Aviv protest
    • That's my short experience at "projectreason" (I keep seeing it as "project treason") but I don't guess the bloggers were Israeli, just pro-Israel. Not really worth discussing anything with them. Deliberately blind, abusive... like you say.

      It would be nice to have a genuine dialogue. I guess that's expecting too much.

    • They may just be waiting for global warming to make Gaza completely uninhabitable. Then claim it's not their fault.

  • 'A blind evil rage that increased forever, day and night' --Mads Gilbert on Operation Protective Edge
    • Well, you know, if you went out when Hamas was firing those rockets, you would probably be safer than if you went out when they weren't. Since traffic accidents kill far more Israelis than the rockets and everyone else would be hiding, you'd be safer.

  • On being accused of anti-semitism by well meaning liberals
    • 'But this guess may just be a reflection of my own distaste for the ideas of “peoples” and group rights.'

      I get your point, the only reason "peoples" have rights is because individuals have rights.

      In many places around the world, at one time there was no such thing as private property. I think the Ottoman empire instituted private property around 1858. Before that everything was officially state land but communal rights to use the land by, e.g., a village or bedouin group were recognized. If they didn't use it in some cases it reverted to state land.

      With the institution of private property, much of it ended up in the hands of whoever was cognizent enough to register is, rather than split among the villagers. That's how you got large absentee landowners who were quite willing to sell to Zionists, and the people lost their rights.

      Anyway, in the sense of communally owned land at a village level, I would certainly favor a group right to a certain piece of land so long as its use was equitable within that group. I don't think it violates the "peoples" have rights because individuals have rights idea and on the whole I agree with you.

    • I would hope it's useful, but the pro-Israel crowd completely ignores facts and figures.

    • Yeah, heaven help me. After the post about Sam Harris, I went over to his project-reason web site and posted some information about the history and so forth on one of their discussion forums.

      Don't say I wasn't warned!

      Not a single person at that site was interested in examining facts, using critical thinking or eroding the influence of dogmatism and bigotry in our world. Rather the reverse. They're the typical zionists as you note, mendacious, out of context, counterfactual and the rest.

      Does anyone know why it's so important to Zionists that Palestine wasn't a state in 1920? I cannot figure out why it's important. Other than to maybe say that by extension, Palestinians didn't exist, therefore the land was empty. This is from people who self-identify as rational. ROTFLOL.

  • What Jim Fallows and I saw
    • I agree with Piotr on the al-Dura thing. I mean, good grief, why did the Israeli go to such incredible lengths to prove that the bullet could not have gone through the barrel the man and his son were hiding behind? No one in their right mind ever claimed that the bullets went through the barrel. You can't tell the exact angles from the pictures on line, but it looks to me that at least some of the kid would not have been behind the barrel, if the Israeli soldiers were shooting at a 30 degree angle.

  • The withdrawal that isn't
    • I think John Kerry is the least hypocritical of U.S. foreign secretaries in a long time. That, of course, is saying very little.

  • Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside
    • 100m is a good city block, 10 houses of more or less average lot width. If they can aim accurately enough to hit 4 small boys running from another attack, or even the buildings they claim they actually do target (as advertised on IDF TV), they could avoid hitting the hospital. Even if the rockets were fired from next door, it would not be any evidence that the hospital was being used to attack from. The rockets were not fired from the hospital. Therefore it was still protected.

  • NBC reverses; Mohyeldin to return to Gaza to cover 'Palestinian side of story'
    • Maybe that Richard Engel and the producer who didn't speak Arabic really didn't want to go to Gaza

  • Why I, a Palestinian-American Muslim, went to the White House Iftar and what I learned
    • Next time, all the people who boycotted should go and wear the Palestine scarf you wore. And not clap either. Wave in front of Dermer's face.

  • 'We are moving from Iron Dome to an iron fist': Israel launches ground invasion of Gaza
  • Jet Blue incident shifts from anti-Semitic story to anti-Palestinian one
    • I've had not-to-different experiences from supporters of Israel. Calling me names, approaching me in a threatening manner. Rosenberg is not reflective of the Jewish community, but she's utterly reflective of the pro-Israel crowd.

  • Israeli onslaught shatters western belief that Arabs are source of violence
    • I always think the Nazis exemplify the "Civilized man". After, the real differenced between "civilized" and "savage" people seem to be a) table manners and manner of dress and b) technology, especially as used for killing people. What could be more civilized than assembly-line mass murder? Savages would have merely attacked in a mass mob, using machetes.

  • Federal official fires gun at pro-Palestine demonstrators following scuffle in LA
    • Lots of people at those rallies have sticks, because the signs are on sticks, on both sides.

      I've certainly had a pro-Palestinian sign knocked out of my hand, as did one of my fellow protesters, and other very threatening moves against, like almost being shoved or hit, more than being called rude names by pro-Israel people. So I really believe the young man who says the flag was ripped out of his hand.

  • Israel's message to the Palestinians: Submit, leave or die
  • Understanding 'militant' as a cover-up for civilian deaths, and other ways international law helps clarify the Israeli attack on Gaza
    • If a reservist can put down her arms and become a civilian, why can't any "militant" do so as well? (funny that you use a female reservist as example, but whatever). Is the requirement that the reservist not have arms in his/her house, or on their person, or what? Does the fact that many settlers are armed make them "combatants?" even if they aren't directly attacking someone at the time? I mean, Palestinians are frequently described as "taking part in hostilities" when the only criteria seems to be membership in a militant group. I never hear settlers who are killed by Palestinians described as "taking part in hostilities," I never hear any Israeli who is other than an active-duty member of the armed forces described as other than "civilian" on the btselem web site.

  • 'Jewish' or 'Israeli' -- NYT, BBC, and CNN make different word choice
    • @Hopmi, all evidence says that Israel demolishes Palestinian homes largely to cause them to give up their land and leave it for Jews to take over. I see no evidence that you actually do understand your own side. There is a large difference between the actual reasons the Israeli government does something and their stated reasons. I doubt the U.S. government's real reason for launching the war on Iraq had anything to do with the terrorist attacks, either. I could forgive some Israeli people who may be propagandized into thinking they're under attack all the time, but not the government which constantly drums up that fear. And I've never read you do anything better than finding excuses for that same Israeli government.

      I don't know if you realize that it's the Palestinian civilians who have been under attack for 100 years by Zionists, you just take the side of the Israeli government. Right, so you find certain actions of the Israeli government abhorrent - but not the fundamental goal of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from land Israel claims for Jews, which is the motivation behind those abhorrent actions? The Zionist goals, the Jewish majority in Israel could not have been achieved without actions such as home demolitions, and also, actions on par with burning people alive that you claim to find abhorrent.

  • 'Forward' editor says Presbyterian vote was anti-Semitic
    • @Dabakr, Isn't calling a point of view "infantile" rather disparaging? also stating that "whataboutery" the "is the dumbest phrase?" Are there any actual examples where you actually do what you claim, that is, read things here without disparaging them?

  • Kidnapped
    • Contrary to your assertion that Israel provides medical care for family members of their enemy, the P.A. and Abbas in particular have always been Israel's friend.

      As for Israel providing medical care other Palestinians from the occupied territories, such has often been accompanied by requirements that they become informers to the Israeli military. Which likely Abbas qualifies as.

  • Missing!
    • Just, in this case I think the "balance" is warranted.

      I don't know that the settler teens are innocent, however. I suppose they should be considered "innocent until proven guilty" of anything worse than illegal settlement activity (which would in my judgement deserve hefty fines paid by their parents if they are under-age, until the situation is rectified, not imprisonment, "kidnapping," or death).

    • Page: 7
    • Even if the settlers were kidnapped (which I tend to believe), we don't know who kidnapped them, or why. Maybe the oldest one kidnapped the younger ones, because he's mentally impaired or has been watching too much "Criminal Minds" or something.

    • By gosh, so the expulsion in 1948-49 was only 750,000, the majority of people living in "greenline" Israel at the time. And it began before the "invasion of five Arab armies" (which didn't actually happen either)

      These facts are known to most people who comment on MW, what you don't appear to know is that most people can see through your flim-flam. Claiming that millions weren't expelled in 48-49 when there weren't millions to expel, and that the "invasion of five Arab armies" wasn't the pretext - of course, because the expulsions started before the Arab states sent any armies to defend the people under threat of mass murder.

  • The Banality of Religion: 'Prayer summit' at the Vatican fails to inspire
    • I think the pope is allowed a moment of piety*, or a pious* moment, or something

      *these two words are often used in mockery of their given definition

  • Hillary Clinton's flipflop: We were wrong to take hard line against settlements
    • To say that Hillary actually took a hard line on settlements is rather a re-write of history.

  • Public debate on Zionism sets a crucial precedent
    • Israel " will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex;"

      I see why Israel's founders wrote it this way. Since Arab is neither a religion, race, nor sex, it allowed them to continue their ethnic cleansing campaign, mass murder Palestinian Arabs and drive them from their homes, confiscate their property and give it to themselves for Jewish-only use. Do things like go into Arab towns, beat up the children with sticks, board people up in their homes for days without food or water, then blow up the homes with the people inside. Or just line them up against walls and shoot them.

      And, of course, applying such rights only to "inhabitants". Having driven the majority of people from what is now considered by most people to be Israel (I mean Israel within the 1949 armistice lines), they then declared non-Jews who left their homes because of this terror to be no longer inhabitants of Israel. Like, if you take a vacation in France, your home country then declares you to no longer be an inhabitant.

      I see no reason why Jews shouldn't have a Jewish state, but the one they have was stolen from its indigenous inhabitants by terror and violence. You can make rhetorical questions like, "why should Jews have the right to self-determination just like every other people," however, that skips the actual sequence of events. The proper question is "why should Jews have the right to mass murder and terrorize the indigenous inhabitants of a place, drive them from their homes and confiscate the land, vehicles, jewelry, books, houses, orchards, businesses, factories, monies, household furnishings and other property the indigenous left behind as they fled in terror, and turn them over for Jewish-only use, and on top of that claim the right to self-determination in that land, to which they were immigrants in the first place?"

  • Israeli government tries to undo image of Pope at the wall
    • However, the number of victims of Israeli terror hasn't gone down since the wall expanded. So your comment reveals that you care nothing about innocent victims unless they're Israeli.

  • A Papal confession to the Palestinian people
    • Yes, this is a bit of an anti-Catholic diatribe. If you're going to blame Catholics for 500-year old anti-semitism by Lutherans, why not blame Jews for 1500-year-old religious intolerance by Catholics? The mass murders of heretics and pagans was, in its time, much more horrific than anything done by Catholics to Jews, as were European Protestant-Catholic wars of the 16th and 17th centuries. After all, weren't the Catholic and Protestant religions born out of ancient Judaic sects? Thus, one can argue, and I think equally successfully, that their strains of religious intolerance were derived from those sects. They seem to be a feature of much of Abrahimic monotheism.

      If Roman-Jewish historian Josephus is to be believed, the ancient Jews, when they were ascendant in Palestine, didn't tolerate other religiouns and forced their adherents to either convert or leave or be slaughtered. If the bible is to be believed, the ancient followers of Moses committed genocide against other tribes. And, as Israel Shahak I think noted, later Jews committed their own massacres against Christians.

      I would like to believe we live in a different era in which genocide is recognized as a crime & all people are valued equally regardless of creed. In previous eras that hasn't been the case, but rather, killing of other peoples was encouraged. Did Martin Luther call Jews liars because he thought their religion was mostly phooey? If so, he was entitled to do so. Did people kill Jews because Martin Luther called them liars? If so, I think we can agree, today, that that was evil (but please, don't blame Jews because they rejected Martin Luther's teaching. They were entitled to call his teaching phooey too).

      Did ancient Judaic authorities kill Jesus (assuming he existed) or have the Romans kill him because of their religious intolerance? Well, I know people care, but why do they care who was specifically to blame, assuming it happened as described in the new testament? No one is alive who was involved. Perhaps some 500 or 1500 or 2000-year-old crimes should be chalked up to human frailty and forgiven, or just taken as a lesson in what institutions will do to gain and hold power.

  • Israel tries to blame killings on Palestinians as int'l outrage builds
    • "Border Patrol troops maintain that no live bullets were used to disperse the violent protests. "

      For sure, the live bullets were used when there weren't violent protests. Technically, if the Border Patrol troops maintained this, they could well be telling the truth.

  • Inspiration on the quiet streets of Palestine
    • @MY1,

      OK, I'll state unequivalently that I am against Palestinian "terror".

      However, please be more specific as to what you regard as "incitement." Does mentioning mass murders conducted deliberately by the Israeli army and the ethnic cleansing which has always been the policy of the mainstream Zionist project constitute "incitement?" Does stating fact that Palestinian Arabs are the indigenous people of all the territoritory occupied by Israel (including Israel proper) and most Jews are relatively recent immigrants constitute "incitement?"

      Please be honest. The Israeli negotiating team, in its stock demand that Palestinians end "terror and incitement," never mentions the much greater Israeli terror and incitement, or its official policies of acquiring territory by war in violation of international law and ethnically cleansing as many Palestinians as it can from such territories. Neither do Israeli hasbarists ever acknowledge such.

  • 'NYT' publishes unvarnished ADL propaganda: 93% of Palestinians are anti-Semites
  • Denial of Palestinian self-determination in the 40s haunts U.S. policy to this day
    • Funny thing about you zionists, after a century of denying Palestinians their right to self-determination, suddenly you're all whining about not having it

      Zach, self-determination is NOT the right to invade someone else's land and drive them out, in particular to drive out the indigenous people of the place

  • South African radicals wanted to kill Paul Simon for violating boycott -- Steve Van Zandt
    • I hadn't known Paul Simon was so immoral. He should be brought to task for all this, although, I'm sure every interview he conducts is well controlled.

  • NY Times troubling corrections: Hebron youth who first 'had brass knuckles' now investigated for possessing 'weapons' (Updated)
    • The soldier didn't arrest the youth - which he would have if the youth had any weapons or actually threatened him. And the youth is clearly holding prayer beads in other parts of the videos. It's obviously the zionists & Jodi Rudoren who suspend reality.

  • Apartheid and hafrada, and the psychology of separation
    • I will happily withdraw the charge against Israel of being an apartheid state if they allow all remaining 7 million native people of their land to live in it, that is, allow any Palestinian refugees or their descendants to return.

    • I like your analysis - one might add, the victimizer may also accuse the victim of hatred, as well as all kinds of aggression as an excuse and attempt at self-confusion.

      I don't think bullies say "sorry"

  • Our eviction action at NYU created more dialogue than ever before
    • I was alive during the South Africa divestment campaign as well, and I distinctly remember having to evacuate a building because of a bomb threat, allegedly by anti-apartheid activists although I don't think they ever found who phoned in the threat (there was no actual bomb either).

      As far as discussing Somalia or North Korea, I have heard very little discussion of those places that didn't include demonization. Well I'm pretty much sympathetic to the demonization of the N. Korean regime, but on the other hand, I sometimes have to wonder.

      I couldn't detect any implied threat to the pro-apartheid activist Alan Johnson in your video. To be sure, there's a lot of passionate speech that drowns him out, but after all, when you hear a bunch of lies and distortions and demonizations of Palestinians such as he puts forth it does tend to make people angry.

      Lies & distortions put forth by Alan Johnson:
      1. Arabs have free speech in Israel. False. Neither do Jews. The military/government can censor anything - did you miss recent posts on agreement to such censorship by NY times columnist Jodi Rudoren?

      2. Israel is not an apartheid state. Rather a distortion. I suppose in recent years Israel has been trying to rebrand itself as a "multicultural" state, whether it makes up for its history of expelling non-Jews, confiscating land from non-Jews and reserving it for Jewish-only settlement and current, on-going policies of "Judaization" of e.g. the Galillee seems dubious. If they were not an apartheid state, they would allow the return of the Palestinian refugees on at least an equal basis of Jews. But they don't, because they want Jews to dominate.

      Did you notice Alan Johnson's advocacy of "two states for two peoples"? Perhaps it should tell you something.

  • Palestinian youth fulfill their 'right of return' to the destroyed village of Iqrit
    • Really, Mikhell, you have ancestors who inhabited Hebron in 1929?

      As far as who is not welcoming whom, please remember that Palestinians (including the Palestinian Jews) are the original & only native people of the "Land of Israel". I'm sorry if anyone gets chased out by mob violence, but the vast majority of Israeli Jews are recent immigrants. You Zionists went into someone else's house, chased them out, took their possessions. If you want to be welcome in someone else's home or town, perhaps you should start by giving it back to them and letting them live in it.

    • @Mikhell, if the Israeli government removes unauthorized Jewish "hilltop youth", why doesn't the Israeli government remove 600,000 illegal settlers, as it should?

  • Simon Schama's Israel whitewash
    • And here is a rather long quote from the "PBS Editorial Standards and Policies". Seems like the episode rather violated PBS standards. We should write the ombudsman.

      A. Fairness

      Fairness to the audience implies several responsibilities. Producers must neither oversimplify complex situations nor camouflage straightforward facts. PBS may reject a program or other content if PBS believes that it contains any unfair or misleading presentation of facts, including inaccurate statements of material fact, undocumented statements of fact that appear questionable on their face, misleading juxtapositions, misrepresentations, or distortions. To avoid misleading the public, producers also should adhere to the principles of transparency and honesty by providing appropriate labels, disclaimers, updates, or other information so that the public plainly understands what it is seeing. For example, content that includes commentary, points of view, or opinion should be appropriately identified, as should all sources of funding. Transparency also suggests producers maximize attribution of information and limit the use of anonymous sourcing to those cases when there is no alternative and the information is essential. Content that contains adult themes or other sensitive material should contain an appropriate disclosure. Producers should treat the people who are the subjects of, who appear in, or who are referenced in the content they produce with fairness and respect. PBS will reject content if, in PBS's judgment, it unfairly treats the people or misrepresents their views. Fair treatment of individuals generally requires that a producer represent the words and actions of the people portrayed or identified in a way that presents their strongest case, and gives individuals or organizations that are the subject of attack or criticism an opportunity to respond. Fairness also requires that a producer be willing to consider all relevant information and points of view.

  • 'A Painful Price': The escalating war on Palestine solidarity at U of Michigan and beyond
    • It would accurate to call Hitler an anti-semite, but it would be highly inaccurate to call Hitler an anti-Zionist.

  • Iymen Chehade fights Chicago school's cancellation of his class
    • There are plenty of political philosophies in which power is good, and the job of government is to control territory and dispossess enemies.

      Yes, and the nazi political philosophy exemplified exactly that. Yep, they surely did dispossess all those Jews who happened to be the nazi government's enemies. I can see it now, Professer JeffB, standing up in front of class, stating that it's a good thing to attack other countries, pillage them and kill anyone who doesn't flee.

  • Judith Butler, Rashid Khalidi and over 150 other scholars condemn censorship, intimidation of Israel critics
    • So you are saying Israel is a lawnmower. And, I suppose, the people who drive it are those like yourself, happily cutting off fingers of people who were innocently sitting on the grass before the lawnmower came.

  • Anti-anti-semitism: How did a movement against bigotry lend itself to another form of bigotry?
    • @JeffB

      Recent immigrants to the U.S. come here almost exclusively to become U.S. citizens and adopt themselves to the U.S. Their vision of the U.S. includes you. Would you object if the recent immigrants to the U.S. had the goal of forming a Russian or Italian or Iranian or Australian state in which most people of non-Russian, non-Italian, non Iranian or non-Australian ethnicity were excluded, not allowed to inhabit the land or become citizens?

      The Palestinians are the native people of Israel. The majority of them are prevented from living in their native land, their land of origin, solely because they aren't Jews. The zionists, except perhaps an inconsequential and tiny minority, never had the intention of coming to Palestine to adopt themselves to the existing society. They came with the intention of excluding the native people from their land and taking their property for the exclusive use of Jews. That continues to this day, both within Israel and in the occupied territories.

      So when you claim Israel is just trying to organize the common resources of the state, it may be true, but it's trying to organize the common resources of the state to benefit the Jewish citizens as well as in a way to encourage or coerce native Palestinians to leave. That's what it means by "Jewish State." And yes, I'm sure it would like to work with Palestinians in accomplishing these goals.

      The Israeli government points guns at Palestinians, non-citizens of Israel in the occupied territories, orders them to leave their homes and vacate their property and give it up for exclusive use by Jewish settlers. As it did (to a much greater extent) and continues to do (to a lesser extent) to non-Jewish citizens of Israel. Yet you think Palestinians should be loyal to a state which denies them citizenship and takes their lives and land and resources?

    • There are both Freeholders and people at the township level that want to take my home to expand a development. Some of them I voted for knowing that.

      I take it you would not object if, rather than people you voted for, they were recent immigrants (for example, Russians or Iranians or Australians or whoever) who came to your home, pointed a gun at you, said they wanted it for the purpose of settling Russians or Iranians or Australians and forming a Russian or Iranian or Australian or whatever majority state, and ordered you to leave. As what happened and continues to happen to Palestinians.

  • 'NYT' boycott debate features two Zionists, and excludes BDS
    • If we don't invite the Russians to participate in debates about what we do about their invasion of Ukraine, why should we invite Israelis about what we should do about the Israeli invasion of Palestine?

  • Jewish community commits intellectual suicide before our eyes
    • The NAACP is not going to validate critics of affirmative action, CAIR is not going to validate people critical of Islam or of Palestinian violence, and Mondoweiss is not going to offer a guest blog post to a mainstream Zionist.

      Ditto on false equivalences, and also completely off-target. The NAACP would very much support others supporting equal rights regardless of ethnicity, which is one of goals of BDS. Although I suppose in the case of Palestine/Israel the NAACP would not want to get itself accused of anti-semitism. CAIR is itself critical of Palestinian violence.

  • NYT obit of rabbi left out his urging Sharon: 'Very simply, wipe them out'
    • In the second intifada Israelis were firing right & left at Palestinian civilians months before Palestinian militants began sending bombers into Israel.

      In other words, the whole Palestinian population could not send its kids out without fear of being shot and killed, long before the reprisal suicide bombings (I'm not trying to justify them). They are the ones being intimidated. If Hartman thinks that Arabs are trying to kill all Jews ("wipe them out"), which he probably did, then his call to wipe out the Palestinians is basically the same thing. I.e., I think he did literally mean to say exterminate the Palestinians.

  • Chilean soccer team puts Palestine front and center
    • There are people who deny the nazi holocaust, and then there are those who acknowledge it occurred, and also think it was a good thing. The one and only Aryan state should, after all, have remained pure.

      Mr. Konrad, since you lend support to mass killings of innocent people in order to purify Israel of it's non-Jews, what is your moral argument against the mass killing of any other people, for the purpose of purifying a state some or most of its native people who are a different ethnic group than yours?

  • 'NYT' casts Israelis as victims of Palestinians who complain bitterly about oppression
    • I don't know about the Hitler quotes. The first one, "Do not argue with a fool..." seems to actually be a biblical quote. The rest look more like common aphorisms or sayings. Not saying Hitler never quoted the bible, but the list seems pretty weird.

  • Stop the Nonsense: Nobody is proposing a boycott of 'the Jews'
    • @JeffB,

      Since Zionism is a political movement premised ethnic cleansing, and Israel is premised on denial of rights (including the right to life but in particular the right to life and citizenship in their land of origin) to its native people, I have to question why Jews find anti-Zionist rhetoric offensive. It isn't my image of Jews that they support ordering people from their homes, lining them up and shooting them, or confiscation of the land, homes, money, jewelry, factories and possessions of non-Jews and turning them over for Jewish-only use. That is the Zionist position, not the Jewish one, although Zionists don't admit it and make every attempt to conflate Zionism with Judaism.

      Why Jews are offended by anti-Zionist rhetoric is beyond me. From your language, I gather you support the Zionist cause and thereby (you can't get around it) the mass murder of innocent villagers and townspeople by which Israel was founded. Why? Why do you want all Jews everywhere to be labeled as ethnic cleansers and racists?

    • If you call for a boycott of the one & only Jewish state, and only that one state, then it is by definition a boycott if Jews.

      If by boycotting Israel you boycott Jews, then I guess you are claiming there are no non-Jewish citizens of Israel. That there are no non-Jewish "nationals" of "Israel" seems to be official Israeli policy. This is certainly a racist attitude (on your part) and racist policy (on Israel's part). Since the Palestinian Arabs are the native people of the land Israel claims, it's doubly racist.

      By the way, the BDS movement does not endorse a blanket boycott of Israeli citizens, even of Jewish ones. So even if all Israeli citizens were Jews, the boycott would not be against Jews.

  • 'NYT' article on Palestinian refugees manages to quote Israeli govt spox but no Palestinians
    • 1. In fact, of the 5 Arab nations that declared war on Israel in 1948, only Egypt enroached to any great degree on territory designated for the Jewish state by the UN partition plan. So it is false to say that 5 Arab nations "invaded" the newly formed Israel. In fact, the intervened and rather reluctantly in a war already in progress, if you call it a war. The Zionists already had a well-formed and well-armed army, the Palestinians had nothing but a few guerilla groups, and they had already conducted a few large massacres in their effort to rid Palestine of its native Arab peoples. Most of the fighting was in those areas designated by the UN partiton plan as the Arab state. It is far more accurate to say that Israel invaded the Arab state.
      2. There weren't non-stop attacks across the borders into Israel following 1848. Many refugees attempted to return, the vast majority of them unarmed (see Benny Morris). The main motive was either to visit relatives, or for economic reasons, for example gathering food or articles they'd left behind, since many were starving having been driven from their homes and access food, and yes, sometimes to steal. Most of the Israelis killed during this period were militants of some kind, armed forces or armed gaurds. Israel had policies of shooting to kill refugees who attempted to return, and they killed thousands. Also quite a number in cross-border massacres in Arab villages. There are very few instances of deliberate attacks on Israeli civilians by any Arabs including Palestinians in the first few years after 1948 (the Israeli MFA could come up with about 24 Israeli deaths during this period from what was clearly attacks on Israeli civilians - compared to the hundreds, or the thousands if you count people trying to return home, killed by deliberate Israeli attacks on Arab civilians, which, of course, Hasbara central doesn't count). Egypt began arming "fedayeen" only after Israel made a major attack on an Egypt in 1955, and even then, they mostly attacked military targets.

      That is to say, it's pretty evident that most Palestinian refugees would have been perfectly happy to return and live at peace with their neighbors and probably still are, Israel has always had every violent intention to anyone who tried and has always killed or imprisoned those who did.

      Well, what do you expect from the Habara "C" team but some bogus history with a few factoids thrown in, something pretty far from the truth and nothing but the truth that MahaneYehuda thinks we deserve (but never get from Hasbara Central) and even further from the whole truth.

  • Preaching to the choir: reflections on Max Blumenthal's 'Goliath'
    • Anybody want to tell me why Ireland and Australia take opposite stances on this issue? Bipolar celts?

      I'm going to guess: Australia is a settler-colonial society, like Israel, and fairly like the U.S. in it's political makeup, it probably has a strong pro-Israel lobby and a great majority of people who are uninformed and really go along with what they see in the media - for example, Murdoch's news empire. Ireland, on the other hand, was a colonized society.

    • I personally think way too much has been made of Blumenthal's chapter titles. I think they're fine, but they really aren't the meat of what he has to say.

      I suggest everyone read his book, and come up with better titles. "How to kill goyim and influence people" seems particularly objectionable. And after all, the article isn't really about how to kill goyim, but about very lenient rules saying it permissible to kill goyim who have done nothing you or I would think wrong other than to exist, rules espoused by certain prominent Israeli rabbis with the apparent assistance of the Israeli military.

      So, what's a better title, "Israeli Rabbis are all peaceloving and never fanatic?" I don't know.

  • United States takes a 'new path' forward in the Middle East!
    • Regarding oil prices: I guess we should cry about global warming. But anyway war just uses that oil up faster.

      Gasoline has been coming down in price for the last month. Maybe the oil companies had an inkling of the agreement, or indeed, were behind it?

  • Jerusalem gov't invites you to watch knights battle in the occupied city
  • 'We need to remove all the posters from the system' -- Boston censors the Palestinian narrative (Updated: The ads are going back up)
  • MJ Rosenberg owes Ali Abunimah an apology for false accusations of anti-Semitism
    • First, Krauss didn't claim that most Israelis are white. What does their racism have to do with whether Israelis are white? Do you really think only whites can be racist, and only against blacks?

      Second, there are far fewer wiccans than there are Jews, and they have no country. Historically, they were far more oppressed than Jews. Does that give wiccans the "right" to discriminate against the native people of the lands in which they reside? Does it give them the right to, say, move to, say, Wales (the place where the religion originated, or so they say), expel the current Christian population (while claiming that the Christians have dozens of states they can go to), confiscate the Christian's land and property and establish a wiccan state there?

      The right to self-determination only belongs to the native people of a place. Most Jews are not the native people of Israel, they're immigrants, and they have no right to self-determination unless they share it with the native people of their land, the Palestinians, all of them including the exiled ones. Israel was only able to be created by denying the Palestinian people their right to self-determination.

  • What Comes Next: Rights, not 'arrangements'
    • Could someone explain to me why every single adult Israeli settler couldn't be indicted for war crimes? I mean, I would advocate throwing them all in jail, but maybe paying a hefty fine for every day they help in the settlement enterprise. They're responsible too.

  • Israel and its Middle East allies have embraced the three state solution
  • Violence works-- by ending complacency
    • Israel declared parts of the OT as its own territories: a greatly expanded East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

      And yes, if there are two separate law systems, the laws are apartheid. And in fact, the laws are against Palestinians because they aren't Jews, so they are against them as a people. How is it tolerant to "minorities" to force them to obey different "laws," in many cases arbitrarily imposed by the Israeli military? Law in which the Palestinians subject to them have no voice in the government that decrees them, no representation, and one of whose aims is to get rid of them?

  • Update: Israeli soldiers manhandle European diplomats seeking to aid demolished Palestinian village
    • "I see our ‘diplomat’ with her Prada bag and sunglasses, untouched, haul off and bitch slap the face of an IDF soldier."

      In this video, the diplomat slaps the IDF soldier immediately after she was helped to stand up by her colleagues or friends, so it's clear her slap comes after she was man-handled by the IDF soldiers. Your assertion that she was "untouched" was clearly a lie.

  • Israel's dancing soldiers
    • "unwashed ... dirty Jews" are "better" than the "arab world"

      Aside from revealing your racism, "cleansing" was the term used by Ben Gurion and his cronies for getting rid of the Arabs from what's now Israel. In that sense, the "zioJews" are very clean.

  • Israeli embassy is now BuzzFeed contributor, posting alarmist map of threats to Jewish state
    • For the purpose of scaring people, the most of the West Bank & it looks like maybe E. Jerusalem aren't part of Israel. For most other purposes Israel claims a lot of these areaas.

  • Chas Freeman: Kerry's talks leave out 4 of 5 Palestinians
    • Morocco did NOT expel its Jews.

      The Algerian Jews were able to become full French citizens under French colonial rule, unlike the Algerian Muslims. Algeria only became independent in 1963. If you want to blame the exodus of Jews from Algeria on someone, it would have to be the French. The same is likely true for Tunisia.

      Neither Iraq nor Syria expelled their Jews. To the contrary, they passed laws forbidding them to leave, in particular for Israel.

      Most of the Lebanese Jews left because Israel was bombing the place.

      Egypt, I believe, did expell its Jews.

  • On NPR, All Trivia Considered
    • On the more positive side, they showed "The Law in These Parts" on POV on PBS last night, & are planning to show "5 Broken Cameras."

      "The Law in These Parts" is by an Israeli. I thought it was relatively pro-Israel, but all-in-all a good documentary. I wish I'd watched the discussion afterwards but the movie sort of made me mad.

      link to pbs.org

      We'll see if PBS is pressured into not showing 5 broken cameras.

  • (Updated) For calling Israeli speaker a war criminal, Boca Raton school forces 3 students to take 'reeducation' program from Zionist org
    • I hope they're the only students in the "class"

      Below are some excerpts from the ADL On-capmpus affairs guide. As you can tell, they're more concerned with anti-Israel speech than anti-semitism.

      Any chance of re-educating other students? Certainly, take good notes to see if any falsehoods are taught. In fact, bring a camera and record it. And sue the school if there are.

      • up-to-date information on current events affecting Israel and resources for
      Israel advocacy
      • in-depth background information on anti-Israel groups, speakers and campaigns
      •expertise in countering extreme anti-Israel activity
      •advice on how to respond to anti-Semitic and racist incidents
      •collection of discrimination and bias incidents
      •delivery of anti-bias training programs for students, faculty and staff
      •an annual mission to Israel of campus leaders, enabling outstanding
      students to experience Israel first-hand
      •speakers on subjects including the Arab-Israeli conflict, anti-Semitism,
      extremism, free speech, hate crimes

  • Netanyahu may require DNA tests to prove immigrants have a Jewish 'bloodline'
  • The answer to the tragic frenzy of Jewish Israeli fear is nonviolent resistance
    • Israeli military operations "resulted in civilian deaths?" aren't you leaving out the fact that the Israeli military operations were without exception performed in order to acquire territory by force of arms and ethnically cleanse, or keep it cleansed, it of non-Jews? "Resulted in civilian deaths" makes it sound like it was some accident of war. Akin to a robber claiming that the death of someone he was stealing from was accidental, if that person attempted to defend his property. First, they were wars of aggression, and secondly, many of the mass murders were no accidental byproduct.

  • The Israel/Palestine issue seeps into American culture
    • I wish I could remain calm when discussing the subject.

      People who are so immersed in a myth probably aren't open to discussion either. While my definition of "liberal Zionist" is someone who believes in reconciliation, partial truth and keeping apartheid forever, at least they tend to be more open to facts and discussion.

      I don't know if "B" might also have known that Palestinians have been living there for 10,000 years. In a sense, he's right, the green line doesn't matter. Just trying to think of ways to get through to a person such as him & get him to see the basic injustice of his claim, if not the falseness. But I'd probably just lose it too.

  • How fair is Martin Indyk, who says he was motivated by 'my... connection to Israel'?
    • Anyone who's fair-minded is pro-Palestinian, at least to the point of advocating their equal rights including right of return. In fact, Indyk and Ross have spent their careers as anti-Palestinian activists. Ross twisted everything he ever got his hands on against them, blamed Arafat entirely for the breakdown of the previous negotiations. Indyk was equally anti-Palestinian.

      You can be both pro-Palestinian and pro-Jewish Israeli, but you cannot be pro-Israel as presently formed, an exclusive Jewish state that denies the right of most of its native people to life and citizenship in the state that controls their land, and not also be anti-Palestinian. Indyk and Ross both fall in the category of being anti-Palestinian by denying their right to live in their native land.

  • Nakba is the root of the conflict and makes '67 negotiations meaningless -- 'NYRB'
    • Oleg, are you arguing that "might makes right?" Under that philosophy, there was nothing wrong with murdering 6 million Jews in WWII. There was nothing wrong with Nazi Germany expelling and taking the property of its Jewish citizens as they had the power to do so. And I would note that their motivation was similar, maintaining the dominance & purity of the Aryan ethnicity. If I subscribed to your philosophy, I wouldn't care.

  • Helen Thomas dies
    • Thank you tokyobk

      It wasn't that Jews qua Jews were interlopers, it was that Jews qua Zionists had a clear intention of getting rid of the "Arabs" by one means or another.

      Setting up business networks "to protect themselves" would be discrimination along racist lines, like whites in the post-reconstruction south would boycott any business which hired a black person on equal terms. This is exactly what many Zionists did when they arrived in Palestine, or tried to do, ban employment of "Arabs" in Jewish businesses, and such practices continue to this day.

  • Ben Rhodes says 'there’s no more difficult issue in the world' than Israel/Palestine conflict
    • "... Palestinians who a reclaiming what is theirs. "

      I am so glad you admit that most of Israel actually belongs to the Palestinians.

      As far as Israel ceasing to exist, a state which can only exist by denying equal and full rights to its indigenous population (or any segment of its population) perhaps does not deserve to exist.

      If Palestinians are hostile, perhaps they wouldn't be if Israel didn't expel them from their land, bomb, torture and imprison them. And BTW UN194 specified that Israel should re-admit anyone willing to live at peace with their neighbors.

  • Symbols of occupation in Hebron: evicted settlers are allowed to return, stones taken from Ibrahimi Mosque
    • Actually the Hebrew alphabet is generally dated as started around 300 BCE. Since the alphabet is just squared-off Aramaic, one could reasonably date the alphabet as beginning around when Aramaic started, 800 BCE (according to wikipedia). At least, writers using the Aramaic alphabet probably could have easily read the Hebrew alphabet.

      However in an attempt to back-date Jewish claims, a lot of people seem to have started calling the Phoenician alphabet "paleo-Hebrew." Never mind that the Phoenicians developed and spread the use the alphabet, and they were not Hebrews (the Greeks called them Phoenicians, they would have called themselves after the cities they sailed from such as Byblos or Tyre.) There's no evidence that any people in 1000 BCE would have called themselves "Hebrews" or been called "Hebrews" so as to have an alphabet named after them.

    • Historically, there was no such religion as Judaism when Abraham theoretically lived. Everyone in the region were pagans. Yahweh was just one of the gods in the Canaanite pantheon at that time. His elevation to sole, supreme deity happened some 1500 years later.

      What's written in the bible contains considerable editing, redaction and adoption of mythology from all over the place, by various ruling elites and religious authorities, in order to promote whatever agenda they had. Abraham, assuming he existed, had very little to do with the formation of this religious mythology, except as a figure in the story.

      The Ibrahimi mosque was undoubtably originally a site of pagan worship, and remained so well into the Christian era (yes, Jews and Christians worshipped there as well). What it was under Herod is unknown, but historians of the Christian rule attest to attempts by Christian authorities to stamp out pagan practices in Hebron by demolishing existing pagan alters and rebuilding them as Christian sites (see Basem L. Ra'ad, "Hidden Histories," p 71-72.). This is not so different from the Judaic rulers, according to historian Josephus, the Hasmoneans also attempted to stamp out pagan worship.

      As far as Abraham being the forefather (in the ancestor sense) of the Jewish people, historically, modern Jews are predominantly descended from people who converted to Judaism in other parts of the world. If anyone can legitimately claim Abraham as their forefather, it would be the Palestinian people.

      The only reason this matters is because Zionists are making some big claim to a certain territory based on purported religious "attachment"

  • Mandela, King, Gandhi? Jeremy Ben-Ami's heroes are mine
    • Estee, may your dream of equal rights for all people between the river and the sea come true.

      But haven't you heard? Advocating equal rights regardless of creed is the same thing as advocating the destruction of Israel. At least, that's what some people say.

  • 'Palestine' is an ancient name, for a land of many cultures
    • It's a pretty good ancient history, however, I'm not personally convinced that the Merneptah stela actually refers to Israel. The transliteration is I.si.ri.ar. That could be Assyria as much as Israel, or as some have suggested, Jezreel. People latched onto "Israel" as the reference for religious reasons. Of course there's no biblical confirmation of the horrendouse defeat described in the stela (maybe the bible writers wouldn't have fessed up anyway). Anyway, maybe does refer to the tribe Israel, but maybe not.

  • Creator of 'Two and a Half Men' says other Americans want to ship him to a concentration camp
    • Being wealthy & successful doesn't protect a minority from holocausts. On the other hand, the somewhat heavy-handed anti-holocaust education we get in public schools probably does (although it tends to make people tired of hearing about it too). If the US commits another holocaust, I doubt it will be against the Jews.

      I'm not offended whatsoever by Chuck Lorre's statement. If anything, it's back-handed praise of American culture. I don't think a little fear is unwarranted even though there are no current signs of major anti-semitism, but (in other cases) it wouldn't hurt to accompany it with a little humility, e.g., acknowledgement that we're all capable of the evil of genocide, or that Jews are not the only victims ever.

  • Reluctantly taking down monstrous orientalist video, college union in Israel protests that it got '1000s of positive reactions'
    • It was pretty homophobic, too. So much for Israel as a gay paradise.

      Sorry I didn't their complete explanation of why they took it down before posting.

  • Glenn Greenwald on the Woolwich attack and blowback from the 'war on terror'
    • @biorabbi, the Palestinian suicide bombers came from people living under occupation, meaning, Israel or its settlers kills any non-Jew under its will, at will, with practical impunity, tortures and imprisons people for any reason, confiscates land for Jewish-only settlements and denies people access to adequate water, medical care, jobs, places of worship. Many of Israel's murders were in the immediate months prior to the wave of suicide bombings. In other words, the suicide bombers were in reaction to on-going, present and continuing grievances.

      So as to your question, "Why aren’t there Israeli suicide bombers against Germany after world war II?" a corresponding question would be, "Why aren't there Palestinian suicide bombers against Israel after Israel ended its occupation of the Palestinian territories?" Israel's occupation hasn't ended.

      What if there had been Jewish suicide bombers against Germany during the occupation of Poland, France, Denmark and other places? Suppose 50% or less of the victims were innocent civilians - as in the Palestinian/Israeli case. Would you have made the claim that they were an unmitigated crime against humanity?

  • Double standard
    • A few years ago, someone I was talking to said she was from New York, and then called it "Jew Town" (she was Jewish). When put like that it sounded like a pejorative, a little defensive. Of course it shouldn't but sad to say, there is a pejorative hint in the word "Jew" particularly if used as an adjective. Not so with "Christian." So for these instances, I don't think so much should be made of avoiding the religious label in one case and not in the other, in one case the NPR person is avoiding what could be considered a pejorative to some and in the other generally not. Of course both men seem like cads (that's putting it nicely) and for all I know Do Wan Chang is exploiting the Christian label to sell more goods.

      "Zionist," that's a real pejorative.

  • The false equivalence of liberal Zionists
    • @jon - what kind of a liberation movement urges "purification" and executes a campaign of mass murder and terror to cleanse the land of the native people, as Israel's zionist founders did?

  • The Israel Project-- and Chris Matthews-- say you can't make deals with Palestinians
    • The Btselem statistics which say 4000 (more like 4000) Palestinians died in the intifada are automatically biased, because they count as "taking part in hostilities" pretty much anyone on the Palestinian side who carries a gun. They don't count Israeli armed settlers as "taking part in hostilities," if they're armed guards operating in the occupied territories, for example, they're listed as civilians and never investigate whether or not they're reservists in the Israeli military. I'm sorry, I used to trust Btselem.

  • Video: 'TMZ' interviews Emad Burnat on LAX detention
    • I think the interview with Emad Burnat raises TMZ hugely, rather than TMZ diminishing this incident it touched. I probably still won't watch it.

  • '5 Broken Cameras' director detained in LAX on way to Oscars (Updated)
    • I honestly think probably someone in the Israeli government put his name on a list of people to question.

      Of course, the Israeli state department is claiming the film is an "Israeli" film, despite almost none of it was filmed in Israel or by Israelis. I guess it goes with Israel claiming Palestine is part of Israel, hummus and cherry tomatoes are Israeli inventions.

  • Eric Alterman's bias revealed as he warns against the 'red menace' of BDS
    • Alterman bolsters his argument that the goal of BDS is to destroy Israel by quoting Omar Barghouti as saying if Jews became a minority in Israel, they might vote to rename the country.

      Right, the destruction of Israel accomplished by renaming it. What fear this must engender among Israel's supporters.

  • UN fact-finding mission: Israeli settlements violate intl law; Israel must 'immediately initiate a process of withdrawal'; Governments and companies must '[terminate] their business interests in the settlements'
    • James, what about the problem of Israel forcibly removing Palestinians from territory it claims? If Palestine is forced to accept Israelis that were illegally brought into its territory, shouldn't Israel be forced to accept Palestinians it illegally removed from its territory?

    • Expanding borders has always been one of the reasons Israel installed the settlers.

      I don't quite grasp why focusing on full UN recognition with the pre-1967 borders will help the situation, it seems more of a deflection. As I know, Israel has full recognition. Could you explain how it isn't recognized?

    • All the settlers are also committing a war crime. They should all be tried & convicted. I don't actually favor jail time, but a hefty yearly fine. To be collected by any other nation they travel to. Also, any soldier who has served in the occupied territories protecting settlers.

      Settler leaders, Israelis who participate in authorizing them to be there or anyone above the lowest rank in the armed forces should get jail time.

  • Millions disenfranchised in Israeli vote due solely to ethnicity and geography
    • There are close to 5 million Palestinians whose place of origin is inside Israel, who lost their citizenship in their country of origin because Israel drove them or their immediate forebears from lands Israel claims. I'm sure some of them reside in Ramallah, in any case, millions in the occupied territories.

  • Israel lobby doesn't want Al Jazeera coming into 'millions of American homes'
  • Abbas threatens to dissolve Oslo as protests rise over PA's untenable financial situation
    • "There is only 1 Jewish country."

      And what a country it is. An apartheid state, founded on ethnic cleansing and with the idea of religious supremacy for one religion and continued expansion by wars of conquest. It has routinely employed torture, imprisonment and forced exile to squelch political activity and speech by the non-Jewish people of land it claims, at times making it illegal to so much as display the Palestinian colors. It bans most of the native people of its land from life there.

      This, giladg, is the state you claim represents Jews?

  • Neocons, wearing jackboots, are suddenly on the defensive over Hagel
    • @Sean,
      Not that I have any quarrel with your list of ideals, but I doubt everything on your list is actually a libertarian value. For example, anti radical wealth inequality, pro-environmentalism. In general, wealth equalization and environmental safeguards are accomplished by government policies, which libertarians are very much against. And on the other side of the coin, foreign policy realism and entrepreneurism aren't so much progressive ideals. Maybe you're saying you aren't a libertarian?

      Anyway, I personally doubt that any ethnic nationalism has a real potential as a humanist movement, Zionism especially. Many ethnic nationalisms arise from people who are native to a particular place, if they're the only ethnicity inhabiting it all well and good, but if not they seem to turn on minorities or "foreigners" for mass murder or expulsion. Zionists didn't even have the excuse of being native to the land they targeted for their state. Zionism isn't just Jewish ethnic nationalism, it's a settler-colonialist movement predominantly. From the get-go, mainstream Zionists were considering how to clear the land of the native people.

  • The war over Hagel is on
    • OK, so "Jewish lobby" is in fact intimidating a lot of people on capital hill, thereby proving Hagel right.

  • Israeli army raids three civil society offices in West Bank at 1 a.m.
    • @giladg, exactly how many rockets were lobbed from Israel (or Israeli warcraft) into Gaza in the period since the settlements were uprooted, and how many Israeli soldiers have made incursions into Gaza, and how many Gazan children were killed? Please research this, and explain why

      I take it your definition of violence is something like, "rockets, except those lobbed by Israel" and "killing people or taking property at gunpoint, unless if done by Israeli soldiers" and above all "throwing rocks in protest at soldiers who are involved in the taking of property at gunpoint, beating and killing innocent civilians and general ethnic cleansing"

    • Lacking the observation powers to notice that the Israeli soldiers against whom stones are thrown are in occupied territory, or the brains to deduce that if they don't want stones thrown at them, all they have to do is retreat behind the lines that most of the world accepts as the border of Israel, i.e., the greenline, giladg must believe that ransacking a NGO office is just one of the ways Israelis demonstrate their peaceful attitude towards the indigenous inhabitants of the land they occupy. Hasn't he said so many times, Israelis just want to live in peace with Palestinians? That's why they ransack those offices and also use them for live target practice.

  • 'Lincoln' is an argument for equality in Israel and Palestine
    • Yeah, the zionists invaded their land, mass murdered left and right in a premeditated campaign of ethnic cleansing, stole land, resources and wealth of the people, imposed a decades long brutal occupation during half of which they forbade Palestinians so much as to display the Palestinian flag and would shoot or beat people to death for protesting, or simply for living on their own land. And then claim they just want to live in peace with them, and complain of the "malevolence" of the Palestinians

      @Hopmi, do you grasp that the white slaveowners just wanted to live in peace with their slaves too? Or that the white slaveowner's fear of what slaves would do in a rebellion was as valid as the Israelis'?

      As far as the Palestinians views on equal rights, they were asking for equal rights regardless of creed at least as far back as 1933. Zionist leadership did not then and haven't since.

  • Wieseltier holds on to a 'lost cause,' Jewish support for Israel
    • Wieseltier keeps putting forth the premise that Palestinians have been offered "compromises" and missed the "grandeur" of accepting them, citing the 1937 Peel commission and the 1947 UN partition. Both of these were offers by outside parties to take territory and/or property away from Palestinians and give it to Zionist Jews - I don't know how that could be a compromise. All so-called compromises offered by Israel since was to keep what didn't belong to them or else they'd take more. Wieseltier offers the "liberal" Zionist view and it's as dishonest as it is inaccurate. Wieseltier is discouraged that Palestinians didn't agree to give up their rights, and allow zionist Jews to keep what they took from them because if they didn't Israel would keep them stateless forever? That's not compromise, it's giving in to extortion.

      I think Friedman may know better, but he's still happy to repeat the standard zionist view. That makes him a perpetrator of evil. I don't know if Wieseltier actually believes what he writes either, if he's really so "discouraged" by the Palestinians' lack of "compromise". If so, I suppose he's been indoctrinated beyond hope. Anyway, I see no way to make him see the light. I wish I did.

  • Washington Post defends picture of dead Gaza child after complaints from 'Jews in large numbers'
    • Also, if we apply the rules the IDF applied in its justification for killing journalists in Gaza, surely large numbers of the the American Jewish community, namely, those who wrote the letters to try to get the WP to publish a (non-existent) picture of a grieving Israeli, are legitimate targets in the "war".

      I think Pexton was perfectly fair to identify the religion of the letter-writers and organizations. It isn't a generalization, if the vast majority were Jewish. Stating facts doesn't promote anti-semitism. Those (in the Jewish community, and others) who think it was an appropriate picture don't write to ombudsmen to complain of bias, so this isn't a case where they'll be heard from. It's great to hear from them in the editorial pages, letters and opinion pieces, of course. There's still a great deal of work in getting rid of bias in the actual news reporting, regardless of who does it.

  • Two days after ceasefire Israel kills Palestinian man in Khan Younis
    • @Denis, I'm having trouble grasping how you think shooting anyone in the head from across the border fence is not a "hostility"

    • @asherpat, so you think that because it's an armed conflict and because Palestinian civilians have been targeted by Israeli direct fire, it's also OK to target Israeli civilians who approach the boarder fence?

  • NYT's Jodi Rudoren responds to criticism of Facebook comments
    • Phil, you sound ready to forgive her. I might find her courageous if she made her base in Gaza instead of Jerusalem.

  • Lecture at NY's New School aims to place Nakba story 'on shared ground' with Holocaust
    • It seems to me calling the Nakba a "Myth of Origin" borders on Nakba denial, in as most people take "myth" to mean false belief. Also, saying it's a "Myth of Origin" might imply that Palestinians originated with the Nakba. That's more a Zionist myth than a Palestinian one.

      I totally agree, there's nothing exclusionary about the Holocaust and Nakba "narratives." The exclusionary myths are the many (false) myths of Israel's origin, that Israel, that mass murders and terror aimed at the removal of Palestinians was necessary or good or accidental or didn't happen or they came from somewhere else.

      Anyway, I find the dueling "narratives" meme of some "liberal" Zionists have problematic, because "narrative" can mean fiction or non-fiction, the implication being that one is free to deny there's any truth to the stories of the Nakba.

  • Following poll on Israeli support for apartheid, Gideon Levy says 'making peace would be an almost anti-democratic act'
    • @hopmi, I take it you favor building roads in New York which people who live in projects are banned from driving on. While you're at it, why not deny people who live in projects citizenship, permit other New Yorkers to take their property to build upscale homes, deny them adequate water, access to jobs, hospitals and churches in the upscale areas, and allow any other New Yorker to shoot project people with impunity or burn down their apartments?

  • Obama beat Romney, 17-14, in mentions of Israel during debate
    • I don't know how you come up with Romney being more America firstish than Obama. He has Swiss bank accounts and tax havens in the Caymans set up by him specifically for Bain Capital of which he's one of the main beneficiaries. Romney is Romney firstish, far more than Obama is Obama firstish.

  • Jimmy Carter: Israel has dropped the two-state solution for a 'Greater Israel'
    • How do you know he said this in Israel? The only location given is Jerusalem. East Jerusalem certainly isn't in Israel, and legally, neither is West Jerusalem as it is outside the only internationally accepted borders of Israel, those of the U.N. 181 partition.

  • Exile and the prophetic: Chomsky in Gaza
    • I hate to rain on your parade, but as far as I know Chomsky is an atheist. Not a Jew by religion. Perhaps he considers himself a Jew by culture or genetics, and perhaps he'd be complimented to be called a prophet, but "Jewish prophetic presence?" Did you ask him if he considers himself an example of the "flowering of Jewishness"? Why do you think he's not understandably outside his Jewishness anyway?

  • Endorsing Romney, Chi Jewish paper praises him for saying Jewish culture is superior to Palestinians
    • I totally agree with Romney if he believes, as the Chicago Jewish Star's states, that there is significant enervating potential in the private sector.

      "With his [Romney's] executive experience, belief in the enervating potential of the private sector, ..."

      Whether Romney believes in it is a question, it's pretty clear that he's acted to enervate.

  • If only it was just one tweet: One activist's experience in the 'Our Land' Facebook group
    • This is the cautionary note: it's human to want to believe the worst of one's "enemies." So when someone comes up with an outrageous charge against zionists, some anti-zionists believe it wholesale and others are quite willing to discuss and investigate it rather than dismiss it out of hand. Thus even anti-semitic charges like the one Greta Berlin tweeted aren't immediately dismissed and aren't even adequately challenged. Even if zionists from Ben-Gurion on have claimed Israel to be a model of moral behavior and have been known to spew a long series of lies and misinformation regarding Israel's history, it doesn't mean they've done every evil in the world.

      As for the above post, a careful reading of the responses to Roger G. Salisbury shows that his anti-semitism was challenged. Maybe not adequately. And Greta Berlin says "The Holocaust has been trivialized and bastardized to such a degree, it has lost its power to appall people, and that is a huge tragedy." I don't think that's the statement of an antisemite.

      Maybe it's anti-semitic to let such a conversation continue. Certainly it leads to accusations of antisemitism.

    • I wonder how any of you would react if a group promoting equality and justice in the U.S. tweeted an article about Africans being responsible for slavery

      I've heard it said many times that Africans of the 18th & 19th century participated in the slave trade, selling other Africans to slave traders. Also, I've heard that slavery was a feature of the economic system in West Africa at the time. I personally think these are quite likely true, although I'm no historian. Not only that, some slaves had the position of "overseer" and kept the other slaves in line with as much brutality as any slave owner.

      Well that's a lot different than "being responsible for slavery." Nevertheless, the charge offends African Americans.

  • Exile and the Prophetic: 'Body Worlds' and the prophetic
    • "Since the prophetic is the indigenous of the people Israel, ..." ??
      From the dictionary (www.thefreedictionary.com/indigenous):
      in·dig·e·nous ( n-d j -n s). adj. 1. Originating and living or occurring naturally in an
      area or environment. See Synonyms at native. 2. Intrinsic; innate."

      Are you trying to say "the people Israel" is an area or environment? This makes no sense. Neither "prophetic" nor "indigenous" are nouns.

      Your intro does seem to sort of imply that no other people than "the people Israel" can have prophets as innate to them (well that's the connotation), at which I'm sorry to be offended. The proposed start of your unfinished presentation is fine so far. I frankly found Body Worlds very weird in a fascinating way. Because folklore abounds about artists actually killing people to make realistic statues, as horrifying as nazi science experiments on live people, and as realistically preserved as they are we can only trust that the people were truly dead before their preservation for display. Nor were these bodies treated with any of the usual rites with which most Westerners honor the dead: burial with stones and flowers, or cremation with the ashes to be spread over the earth or sea. Most of your talk is about connections the self has to living bodies, not one's dead body.

  • No room for racism in a movement working for equality and freedom
    • The Jpost article contends that Gaza isn't free because it's ruled by Hamas. I think that's more or less the equivalent of saying Zionists ran the concentration camps.

  • Exile and the Prophetic: The 'Free Gaza' tweets and the challenge for those seeking justice for Israel/Palestine
    • Thank you for explaining why the twitter was antisemitic. My instinct said it was, logic said it wasn't. Logic says it isn't antisemitic to accuse one group of Jews (zionists) with assisting in mass murder of millions, however false the charge. It isn't, after all, anti-Palestinian to say that Palestinians are running Gaza or the West Bank bantustans (internally at least). It isn't anti-Palestinian to say that some of them collaborate with Israel. But, as you explained, in this case "zionist" is a stand-in for "Jew". I'm glad to have my instinct validated.

      However, when you accuse the board or former board of Free Gaza of antisemitic feelings I have to draw the line. Some of those you accuse are Jews, like Adam Shapiro. They may or may not have entertained ideas such as in the tweet, that is, that zionists directly helped murder millions of Jews. The charge of antisemitism is so often leveled at supporters of Palestine that all of us have to figure out what is and what isn't antisemitism (I guess you don't have to determine who's antisemitic, you've already decided). That this particular charge was put forth by a known antisemitic and conspiracy theorist who provides no other evidence than rambling innuendo makes it easy to figure out it really is antisemitic. If the charge had been put forth by an unbiased historian (if there is such a thing) with solid evidence to back it up (and I won't even claim historical "evidence" is always that), would you still regard it as antisemitic? How do you regard the charge that zionists collaborated with the nazis in expelling the Jews from Germany earlier in the nazi rule, or that some attempted alliances with Hitler in the 1940's, of which I've heard there's at least some evidence?

      I don't think Greta Berlin is antisemitic, and what she tweeted was entirely valid subject for discussion among supporters of Palestine, and privately, because we might have a different take on them than supporters of Israel. Supporting Palestine undoubtedly makes one more open to to harboring the idea that zionists worked against Jews or collaborated with the world's worst criminal. All the more important to go examine those ideas for their antisemitic content, the better to eschew antisemitism in oneself and one's movement.

      As for the "Jews represent the prophetic in its various forms ..." business, I frankly find that a bit of self-absorbed and exclusivist naval contemplation. The word "prophet" originates from the Greek. Sorry to be so harsh.

  • When it’s quiet in Jerusalem the settler security cameras are still rolling
    • Jerusalem was a pagan town for a lot longer than it was "Jewish," and Islamic for a lot longer as well. The fact is, the settlers are only interested in the "Jewish" archeology. They are using archeology to prove a biblical myth. They have no desire to use archeological finds to determine what the human world was like back in the day, but to demonstrate it was "Jewish." Or possibly, to help expel the present-day Palestinians, and make it Jewish. Their "archeology" isn't a scientific endeavor any more than creationist "science."

      The "second temple" period, Jerusalem was ruled by Persians (Zoroastrian), Greeks (pagan), Hasmoneans (purportedly Jewish, also known for forced conversion of pagans), and Romans (pagan). An honest archeologist would question whether all the worshippers at the "temple" were Jewish.

      @giladg, why are you so eager to support a pseudo-archeology that's being used only to expel the native people of "your" land, establish the land as being Jewish and cover up any evidence of non-Jewish existence?

  • Free Gaza Movement Twitter controversy leads Jewish Voice for Peace to distance itself from group
    • One of Greta Berlin's ex's was Jewish, I don't know if he's still alive. Plus, I'm sure she's quite cognizant of the anti-semitic charge so often laid against supporters of Palestine. I really think in her heart of hearts she isn't anti-semitic, and even if she harbored some anti-semitic thought, she would not have openly posted it. I really believe her explanation, the link was meant as a topic for a small discussion group.

      That being said, knowledge of zionist deception and taking the side of the Palestinians does tend to make one far more receptive to charges against zionists, and Jews as well. In this case, charges that wildly exaggerate the zionist collaboration with the nazis, to the point that the charge is just a plain lie. Although, logically speaking, I'm not sure saying that one group of Jews participated in the mass murder of half the Eastern European Jews is anti-semitic. I guess it is. Blaming the victim in some way.

  • Sold-out Russell Tribunal on Palestine wraps up in New York
    • @Gilidg, I take this to mean you will keep murdering and beating up the Palestinians until they agree that there is a "Jewish history and heritage" by which I suppose you mean all of Palestine is the "heritage" of the Jews, and furthermore Jews have the "right" expel non-Jews from their homes and take their property if they so choose?

      I'm sure no one will disagree that there is a "Jewish history." I don't speak for Palestinians, but some letters written by them prior to the onslaught by zionists speak with a certain pride of the Jewish history in Palestine. By saying there's a "Jewish heritage," are you saying that because God gave it to them or there was a Jewish kingdom in Palestine some 2000 years ago, it now belongs to the Jews? Even though almost all the people who God would have given it to, and inhabitants of that "Jewish" kingdom of 2000 years ago, later became Christians of Muslims whose descendants are today's Palestinians?

      Why do you think because you have such a large religious attachment to a particular territory, it gives you the "right" to murder or expel the people who'd been living there for so many 1000s of years to claim your "heritage"?

  • Israeli air force shoots down unidentified drone over Negev
  • Pinkwashing advertisement in NY, brought to you by Birthright
    • @yrn, you're claiming that:
      a) Gaza is a city
      b) Because it was transferred to the PNA, it's no longer occupied?

      Do you realize that the PNA's seat is in Ramallah, which is in the occupied West Bank? How does transferring administrative duties for some territory to an organization existing under occupation by Israel and ultimately answerable to the Israeli military authorities make that territory not under occupation?

Showing comments 744 - 701
Page: