Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 817 (since 2009-08-13 23:50:39)



Showing comments 817 - 801

  • ADL throws Netanyahu under the bus to try to make new friends
  • Dozens of Spanish cities declare themselves ‘Free of Israeli Apartheid’
    • @jackdaw "Actually, the Jews are the indigenous people of the area."

      In fact the vast majority of Jewish people who lived in Palestine before the Arabs came "from Arabia" had adopted Christianity in the preceding centuries. In fact, most modern Jews are primarily descended from people who converted to Judaism outside Palestine. Except a tiny minority, Jews aren't indigenous to the area of what's now Israel.

  • Pro-Israel groups close in on anti-BDS victory in California legislature
    • Also, there's the law itself. By singling out bans on discriminating against persons of Jewish faith, it itself discriminates against persons of non-Jewish faith.

    • It would seem that paragraph k:

      (k) It is the intent of the Legislature to ensure that taxpayer funds are not used to do business with or support discriminatory actions against any individuals.

      Would allow a host of suits to ban taxpayer funds used with Israeli government entities or companies that do support discriminatory action against individuals of Arab or Palestinian heritage. For example, the police visits to Hebron.

  • Sam Harris and the politics of 'good intentions'
    • "This is a strange post. Sam Harris is a credentialed propagandistic jerk who earns his living as an apologist for imperial interventions. Shaukat Ansari should easily be able to shred Harris’s pilpul without dragging in Noam Chomsky, which only serves to provide the illusion of gravitas to Harris’ agitprop."

      Indeed he does earn his living that way, and also by spreading Islamophobia. However, he has an adoring fan base, who will never realize Harris's pilpul has been shredded.

  • Ozick says Obama needs 6-volume history of Jews on his bedside table
    • I think it's fake, drummed up concern for anti-semitism. I can't remember a time when criticism of Israel hasn't been called anti-semitic. Or there wasn't a lot of racism against Arabs by supporters of Israel.

  • Elie Wiesel is Dead
    • I'm really sorry Wiesel will be getting so many wonderful obits that don't mention his retched attitude towards Palestinians. I really appreciate this one.

    • "Paradigm shift is the phrase that comes to mind. Ben Gurion posed the question, 'Does zionism need peace in order to be a success?' His answer was, no. "

      Highly appropriate answer. Zionism needs war to be a success. Obviously, accompanied by mass murder and terror.

      With respect to Mark Ellis's post, I only quibble with the following:

      "Through Wiesel, Christians became heavily involved in the meaning of Holocaust suffering and support for the state of Israel without regard for the plight of Palestinians. Christians averted their eyes. Christians became corrupted through support of Jewish power against others."

      I don't know about Wiesel being the primary conduit for Christian involvement in the meaning of Holocaust suffering or support for Israel, or corruption (I suppose a conduit). My introduction to the Holocaust was Anne Frank's diary, and I suspect Christians were corrupted anyway.

  • 'My country right or wrong' -- indoctrination in defense of Israel
  • Saying Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is not anti-Semitic
    • Technically speaking, the majority of Gaza's population is the byproduct of land theft and ethnic cleansing - that is by Zionists who expelled much of the population of southern Israel into Gaza. The same goes for Jordan - majority ethnically cleansed Palestinians.

  • Harvard biotechnology conference whitewashes Israeli occupation
    • The idea of studying genetics in order to determine who has certain political privileges and who doesn't, as in the "kinship" talk, seems racist to the core. Forgive me for bringing in the nazi reference, but it seems exactly what the nazis would have loved to do to achieve racial purity.

  • Advice to British leftwingers on kicking racism out of their anti-Israel rhetoric
  • Shocker: 'NYT' forum on anti-Zionism tilts toward equating Zionism with racism
    • @David Doppler,

      Were all the people who form the indigenous population of what's now Israel to live there, it would not be a state with predominately Jewish people. Any ideology which seeks to exclude the native people of its land from life in in that land and participation in its government is by nature racist. There might be some minute form of Zionism that supports the right of return for exiled Palestinians. You are arguing Zionism isn't racist because only 99.99999% of Zionism is a form of racism?

      And why do you think that a state which denies its indigenous population the right to live there has any "right to exist?"

  • Finding 1 'Arab' in Israeli basketball, NY Times espouses Zionist racial theory
    • Well, at least they didn't (judging by the quotes) trot him out as an example of Israel's wonderful ethnic diversity and lack of state-sponsored racism. Although he does seem to be somewhat characterized as a "good Arab", one who doesn't care about politics.

  • Young liberal Zionists, it's time to let go and move on
    • Thank you, Robert Cohen

      Yes, I can sympathize with your hurt at seeing the Star of David used in such a way. I myself am guilty of giving up when talking to zionists and calling their stance B.S. It's not that I think zionists are evil, more that they're in the main deluded. But I also see this twisting of facts and meaning that you note, some (if not all) of it deliberate manipulation by zionist propagandists, so I don't entirely blame all zionist Jews for being deluded.

  • Zionism is finally in the news, as officials seek to conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism
    • If a central part of any religion includes supporting mass murder and acquisition at gunpoint of the property of any other people, I guess I can say I'm centrally against that religion, and if the people of that religion who practice mass murder and acquisition at gunpoint of the property of any other people, I'm against those people.

      Well, anyone can say God told them something belongs to them and then take it. Like, say, that bank over there or some jewelry in a local department store. Does it give them a right to practice their religious beliefs?

      Whether or not acquisition of Palestine is a Jewish religious belief, it gave the zionists no right to acquire it by means of mass murder or force of arms.

    • "On a more practical level, opposing Zionism really does mean opposing an awful lot of Jews “as Jews” — in the sense of opposing a core element of their individual and collective Jewish identities. Not hard to see why that would be perceived by so many (Jews and non-Jews) as anti-Semitism."

      For a lot of white people, it may be that support of Aryan nationalism is a core element of the individual and collective white identity. Does that make being anti-Aryan nationalism the same as being anti-white person?

    • Page: 8
  • Most Jews want to expel Palestinians -- Pew's ugly portrait of Israel
  • Why I support a one state solution and still consider myself a Zionist
    • I am willing to forgive some Zionists who went to Palestine in the past because of misguided ideas about the Zionist project, or especially as refugees, but who now ascribe to equal rights in particular the right of return and compensation for Palestinian refugees and their descendants. It's not clear Becca believes in that right, it's possible she still believes in exclusivity for Jews. And I'm not Palestinian, I really have nothing to forgive anyway.

      That being said, "self-determination" is a right in particular of indigenous peoples to be free of colonizers and colonizing authorities, and to rule themselves. In this case, Zionist Jews are the colonizers and colonizing authorities, they aren't the indigenous people of Israel/Palestine, they have no right to form their own governmental structures there in the absence of freely given permission by the majority of it people which would include all exiled Palestinians and their descendants.

      As with the usual Zionist Orwellian perversion of language, "Jewish self-determination" is in fact, nothing more than the Zionist claim that Jews have some right to colonize and ethnically cleanse to create a Jewish state where they aren't the native people.

  • Jews aren't special
    • No, that's not what Ofir said. He said the anti-semitism by non-Jews and Judeo-supremacism by Jews arise from the same element [of human culture, I guess]. He did not say either causes the other.

      I don't expect logic from Zionists, of course. I do expect Orwellian twists of language and perversion of what people say to serve Zionist propaganda. No disappointment here.

    • I'm not sure what my tribe is, but I don't love it above all others.

  • Tackling Islamophobia means challenging Trump, and your neighbors
    • We also need to tackle popular culture - i.e., t.v. and movies. Video games and novels too. Action-oriented ones tend to be full of stereotypes. I think I might start there.

  • The Mukhtar's sworn testimony - more on the 1948 Dawaymeh Massacre
  • Video: Sanders's campaign fact-checks Clinton's 'smear' defense with Elizabeth Warren charges
    • Hamas probably has some organizational support in Lebanon, just as they did in Syria. At the start of the Syrian uprising, I believe they sided with the other Sunni Islamic groups joining the uprising, against Assad in other words. As such, Hamas is probably more anti-Hezbollah and anti-Iran.

  • Jewish Voice for Peace and Jews Say No! take credit for faux 'NYT' highlighting biased coverage on Israel/Palestine
    • I don't detect any "balance" in the NY times report. It's full of excuses for the condemned murderers and examples of Palestinian violence. Like noting rockets from Gaza without noting the preceding numerous and virtually continuous attacks on Gaza by Israel. And also presents Israelis as virtuously condemning the murders, even as Israelis support and protect other Israeli murderers of Palestinians who entirely escape condemnation since their attacks are less gruesome.

    • Apt name though. Reminiscent of IDF snipers targeting Palestinian protesters or children.

      WZO and the like are sadly giving anti-semitism a good name.

  • Biggest loser in Iowa was foreign policy
    • "... Sandar's lack of a moral conscience ..."

      I regard it not so much as lack of a moral conscience, as utter delusion, which, as Phil says, is generational. Israel was the liberal cause of his generation. In the 1950s and 60s, the facts of the case were pretty well suppressed.

  • A Response to Ben Norton on silence over war in Yemen
    • Amnesty & the like have organized demonstrations at the Saudi embassy - about Raif Badawi I think

      To be sure I signed the petition they were circulating. It didn't seem that they circulated one about the Palestinian blogger condemned to death but they have notes about some others. It seems to be a different group than the Palestine activists. And of note, when the Syrians first started demonstrating against Assad, I was all keen to join on the side of rights and freedom, and even went to a couple of meetings, invited by Syrian Americans who were also part of the Palestinian freedom movement.

      However, at this point, there is no side to join in Syria, Assad is bad but ISIS seems worse. I don't take any side at this point, none of these groups are defenders of human rights and they're both destroying the country.

      I think there's a couple of issues with respect to Yemen here:
      1. The Saudi atrocities have been going on for maybe 2 years (?). The Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians have been going on for 68 years. It takes time to build a movement.
      2. Primary builders of movements in the past tended to be communist/socialist/"worker party" or maybe liberation theology people. No party in Yemen that I'm aware of fits that, so there's not much for these groups to connect with there. Palestine had a significant leftist group to connect with. The civil war in Syria really did split the leftists, because while it's clear (to me) Assad was a horrible dictator (hence most of the Syrian-Americans, supporters of the free Palestine movement that I'm acquainted with, favored his overthrow), other leftists were highly suspicious when the U.S. came out in favor of his overthrow and, suspicious of U.S. and Israeli meddling (probably rightly so) tended to support Assad.
      3. For El Salvador, there was a big contingent of refugees with access to local groups in the U.S., to talk about what's going on to the leftist groups. Similarly for Palestine and even Syria. I haven't noticed such a group from Yemen.
      4. Lets not forget the relative prominence of Israel in the media, compared to horrible atrocities in other places. 1000 innocent civilians targeted and killed in Yemen probably get less media play than one innocent Israeli civilian. So it isn't just leftists, and don't forget that leftists, like everyone else, cannot help being influenced by relative quantity of news.

      That being said, local leftists really are concerned, I think, but it takes more the form of organizing talks and giving to charity, rather than demonstrating or emailing senators

  • Roger Cohen and Jeremy Ben-Ami go on the road for the two-state solution
    • Shamir and his terrorist organization attempted an alliance with the Nazis. All the google sites that make the claim that the Palestinians sided with the Nazis are Zionist sites. 100%. Pretty much the only site I found which claims Palestinians agree that the Palestinians sided with the Nazis is this one: link to I can't translate what the person said, I doubt he speaks for Palestinians if he made such a statement.

      The French, The Romanians and people in a lot of other countries supported the Nazis a lot more than the The Palestinians. It's just propaganda.

    • The "Maps Initiative" states that The Palestinians sided with the Nazis in WWII. I believe that is 99.9% false. It also says Palestinians agree with that statement.

  • NYT's Rudoren says Mondoweiss critique of her recent article is 'nuts'
    • In the interview, Rodoren mentioned attacks by Palestinians on Israelis numerous times, but attacks by Jews on Palestinians once that I counted. Despite that Israeli attacks on Palestinians are far more common and lethal.

      The whole occupation of the West Bank is an attack by Israelis on Palestinians

  • 'NYT' and 'Newsweek' need to fact-check their propagandists
    • The Newsweek comment section is horrible, with people on both sides making genocidal statements.

    • "For the last few weeks, Palestinian terrorists have slashed, stoned, shot and rammed to death scores of innocent Jews on the streets of Israel."

      Maybe a score if you count "attempts" to stone or slash. "To death" might be taken as a dangling modifier. However, virtually none of this occurred on the streets of Israel, and most weren't innocent Jews, but ones guilty of directly aiding and abetting their government's illegal settlement enterprise, i.e., settlers. Maybe 2 victims were in Israel.

  • Video: 'One Word' ad campaign banned by Boston Metro -- again
    • Yes, one of the hecklers told Colbath-Hess that Palestinians should stop teaching hate. As if stating that "real Palestinian girls" would be wearing suicide vests isn't teaching hate.

  • Today's a day to grieve for Paris, not score political points
    • Let see, a lot of people on Mondoweiss make the [political] point that Israel should stop killing innocent people in its efforts to grab land and deprive Palestinians of human rights.

      Herchel's political point, he objects to the "savagery" people use defending their land or rights? He supports attacking innocent people in order to grab their land and force them off it?

      In it's politics, ISIS is much more like Israel, in that ISIS is also forcing people of religions it doesn't like from land they take over. If you look only at the tactics used by Palestinians and ISIS and the labels attached to them then you might see a similarity, just as France uses bombs from fighter jets, a similar tactic to Israel's. I think France should probably stay out of Syria, I have little trust in their motives, even if I have less trust in those of ISIS. Israel's fighter jets target and kill far more innocent people than the terrorists in France.

  • The US spends $35 billion on foreign aid . . . but where does the money really go?
    • Well, I have a theory - democrats have been losing in big part because when the pres was under fire they didn't stand behind him. Remember 1 or 2 election cycles ago when Obama was called "unpopular" and therefore didn't campaign? He's hated in Israel especially by the Netanyahoo crowd. So, pro-Israel democrats shunned him, and he got the "unpopular" label. He therefore didn't go out and campaign for any democrats, and whether or not he was as unpopular as polls suggested, he is capable of getting supporters out to vote. Result, democrats lost big time. What I'm saying is, the democratic party kind of destroyed itself in good part over Israel.

  • 'Why I am a Zionist'
    • And there's those wiccans, whose ancient homeland in Wales and Britain is now inhabited mostly by Christians. Certainly, wiccans have historically been far more oppressed, than Jews, and there is no Wiccan state, so they certainly deserve one. We should all help them invade Wales and Britain, terrorize and massacre and evict the non-Wiccans and establish a Wiccan state.

    • Well, in 1968 I was pretty much a Zionist, if I thought about it at all. I completely changed when I learned the facts of the case.

  • Video: Two prominent Israelis envision replacing Dome of the Rock with Jewish temple
    • The whole of Jerusalem was ruled by Christians prior to the Muslim rule. It was not Jewish.

      It doesn't matter whether Jews ruled the rock before the Christians, the vast majority of those Jews had by then converted to Christianity. Granted, the Byzantinian Christians practiced forced conversion as had previous Jewish rulers - unlike the Roman (pagan) and Greek rulers however oppressive they may have been, besides which, most Jews had already voluntarily adopted Christianity. The conversion of the people to Islam followed the Muslim conquest, slowly - the Muslims mostly didn't practice forced conversion especially in that area. Jerusalem and surrounding towns remained largely Christian for centuries following the first Muslim conquest.

      Yeah, I know, Zionists will make the argument that because some Jews unrelated to them owned a certain piece of real estate 2000 years ago, the real estate doesn't belong to the descendants of those people who have been living in or praying on that real estate since, but instead, to themselves, because they like it so much they worship it.

  • Fact Check: MSNBC’s Palestinian loss of land map
    • I doubt that the whole of the Golan Heights was Jewish-owned prior to 1948 as well. I mean, there are (or were) major Arab towns and 100+ villages there, ethnically cleansed in 1967.

  • State Dep't slams Netanyahu's Hitler story as 'inflammatory' and against 'scholarly evidence'
    • The FORMER, BRITISH, ZIONIST, JEWISH APPOINTED Mufti. He was appointed by Herbert Samuel, a Zionist Jew, British High Commissioner for Palestine.

  • Goldberg says the root of the conflict is the Palestinians' anti-Jewish 'narrative'
    • "the jews" wrote a lot of books you can by on amazon, that doesn't make them indigenous to Palestine/Israel.

      Much, probably most of the bible wasn't written by Jews, it's a collection of mythology borrowed from pre-existing religious groups. Yaweh, for example, was just one of the gods in the Canaanite pantheon.

  • Hillel Int'l champions animal rights activist to cover for its censorship of human rights
    • Isn't the Israeli army the one that at least twice destroyed zoos in Gaza, by bulldozing the animals alive in their cages? And there she is, touting veganism in the Israeli army

  • Jerusalem at a breaking point
    • I'm sorry you've been ethnically cleansed.

    • "Jewish state" says it all. Israel bans most of its native people from living there because they aren't Jewish. Others aren't allowed the right to life and may be murdered at will, simply because they aren't Jewish. You have a rather twisted idea of freedom and equality, when you support banning people from their own homes and land and taking their property because it's a "Jewish state".

      On top of that, the Temple Mount isn't even in Israel.

  • Roundtable on the Palestinian solidarity movement and Alison Weir
    • I honestly think Allison Weir has some latent or subconscious anti-semitism that she doesn't recognize, but consciously attempts to eschew by being fair. It perhaps manifests in a proclivity towards investigation of sordid deeds by Jews. But then her dedication to fairness takes over. Of course I don't know what's in her real heart.

      Yes, the article on organ harvesting veered off to alleged medieval Jewish practices when it could equally well have veered off towards organ harvesting world-wide. The latent anti-semitism at work? On the other hand, suppression of any investigation into sordid deeds by Jews, the suppression of news showing Israel in a bad light, is also a primary focus of Allison Weir's work. Well, anti-semites and pro-Palestinian justice people have some overlapping beliefs there, it's just that the anti-semites keep focusing on things that have been debunked, conspiracies, Jews causing all the world's problems, and so forth.

      Appearing on the racist radio show is troubling, as is any defense she made of the talk show host. I don't know if that defense was taken out of context, and I don't if she was thinking something around those thoughts that didn't make it out. The list of charges on the USC site is long, but largely against the radio host.

      I do find the JVP claim to be working in the "The Jewish tradition of justice" a little off-putting. I'm not versed in Jewish law, history or traditional practices, but, I mean, the U.S. also has a tradition of justice: just read the bill of rights. And also a history of slavery, Guatanamo, racism, wars and genocide. Of which there are also plenty of in the old testament, which I think is also part of the Jewish tradition.

      For the record, I've given both JVP and the USC donations, and will continue to do so. I think Allison Weir should do some honest self-criticism and self-awareness (and apologies), and maybe JVP some soul-searching.

    • I don't think Phil & co are anti-gentile whatsoever. JVP maybe a little.

  • It's not bigoted to call out the Israel lobby over Iran Deal
    • The accusations are no surprise either, since zionists have been accusing anyone faintly critical of Israel or the Israel lobby of being anti-semitic for as long as I can remember.

      The deal doesn't actually harm Israel, and is surely better for Israel than a war which would weaken the U.S. as much or more than the Iraq war. Those who oppose the deal because they're loyal to Israel aren't really doing Israel any favors. Speaking from my realist point of view. I might like to see Israel dragged down to where it will actually agree to equal rights for Palestinians (including the right of return) but I don't wish the U.S. to be dragged down with it.

  • Did the BBC cover up the anti-Semitism of Gaza's children?
    • It would be more precise for the children to say "A group of Jews known as Zionists who claim to represent all Jews everywhere are massacring us," however that would be a huge mouthful for any child.

      "The Jews are massacring us" is an accurate statement, if imprecise. It was "The Jews" who were doing the massacring.

      Why does the JC think that the massacre of 500+ children, by Jews, less important than the resulting attitudes among those who survived?

      By translating al-Yahood as Israelis, it seems more that the BBC is covering up evils done by Jews than covering up anti-semitism. However, I'm perfectly fine with their translation, it wasn't all Jews everywhere that did the massacre and it doesn't mean Jews everywhere are evil people.

      Cohen falls into that trap rather easily, making a bigger deal of anti-semitism than massacres of people.

  • The Iran deal: a triumph of irrationality
    • So who are those "Citizens for nuclear free Iran" who seem to have enough money to run ads during prime-time TV against the nuclear arms deal? Just curious. Those prime-time spots are usually used for car ads and the like.

  • How long will I have to convince liberals that Palestinians matter?
  • The 'Forward''s apprehension about sending a reporter to Gaza -- a further response
    • Daniel Pearl was investigating some criminal people, who murdered him. Whatever their stated reasons, it's more likely they killed him to prevent exposure of their criminal activity.

      Journalists in Gaza investigate criminal people, who all too often murder them. In Gaza, those criminals would be the IDF who murder more journalists than anyone. Whatever their stated reasons, it's more likely they kill journalists because of their ethnic background as well as to suppress exposure of their criminal activity.

  • Munayyer and Beinart's historic debate on the solution to the conflict
    • 3. In the much much larger scale of things the liberal parts of Israel desperately need greater number of Palestinians as allies in their very midst, to tacitly propel their quest for a more tolerant and progressive and less religious Israel.

      The only thing liberal Zionists have ever done with Palestinians is point at the members of knesset and say what a liberal state Israel is.

    • "right to self-determination" does not include the right to exclude the native people of a place from being included in the self-determination, and never did.

  • Corey Robin revisits Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem
    • Notice how neggy leaves out a few massacres committed by zionists in 1947 before Husseini returned to Palestine in 1948. Also the whole thought and planning zionists had given to how to get rid of Arabs from Palestine in the decades before 1948. Or that the demolition of villages supposedly to deny "enemy sanctuary" occured well outside the borders of that part of Palestine designated by UN resolution 181 as the Jewish state - no attacks on civilians is justified by any rule of war, when it's a war of aggression like the one the zionists conducted, no attacks on foreign military positions are justifiable either - the Arabs would have been perfectly justified in putting military personnel in villages to protect them. Which they didn't do in the case of Deir Yassein which wasn't harboring Arab fighters.

      Well I guess neggy had to chime in with some justification for mass murder and ethnic cleansing.

  • Haneen Zoabi's power and vision (and answers to Theodore)
    • Only reference to Israel government employee affirmative action I could find with a quick google search is this one: link to

      The figure cited is 10% of government jobs allotted to Arabs by Olmert in 2008. Since that's less than the 20% of the population, it sounds as much like enforced discrimination.

  • Reconstructionist Jewish site censors rabbi's essay because he supports BDS and one state
    • I think Gluskin has written an honest and heartfelt essay. If his idealistic vision had prevailed among early Zionists, there never would have been a nakba. I truly appreciate this part of what he wrote, as well as his support for BDS. I'm sorry he was censored.

      At the same time (IMHO) Gluskin is completely wrong that Jews "returned" to the land of Israel. Most Jewish populations never came from Israel (or where Israel is now) in the first place any more than Christian populations did. And while he doesn't interpret the BDS demand for allowing return and compensation for refugees as meaning the destruction of Israel, I don't see how a Jewish-supremacist state can be maintained if the majority of its people don't want that, any more than Israel could have been created without the terrorizing, mass murder and forced expulsion of the majority of the people of the land it took over, who didn't want a Jewish-supremacist state then, either.

      I don't know exactly how Gluskin reconciles these.

  • Hillel accuses BDS activists of ‘colonizing’ student groups
    • Accusing the Palestinians rights people of "colonizing" is yet another example of Zionists s co-opting and mis-using their language. Another example is claiming the "right to self determination" for Jews as a group represented by Zionists. Self-determination was the right of peoples living under colonial powers to decide their own future and nature of their political system without it being imposed on them by outside powers. The Zionists have always been the outside power in Palestine so no such right exists, and it certainly never included the "right" to exclude native people from the decision as Zionists have always done.

  • Jewish groups that blindly support Israel make US and European Jews potential victims of violence -- Avnery
    • I tend to agree, the attacks on Jews in the European market who may or may not have had anything to do with Israel's attacks on Palestinians or French colonialism is more like the price tag attacks, with the following difference: French Jews are very much protected members of French society being attacked by a despised minority, whereas the Palestinians are despised victims of apartheid and their attackers are the protected members of Israeli society.

      I don't think Jews in Europe should be attacked because almost all mainstream Jewish organizations support Israel's colonialism and attacks on Palestinians. It's quite likely the European Jews did in fact lend some monetary support to Israel, but "quite likely" a conviction and anyway it wouldn't merit the death penalty anyway.

  • Israeli court's rejection of Corrie family appeal is not fit for print in our leading papers
    • So I went and read Kinsley's article, and I feel worse than soiled. He says, yeah, the zionists committed deliberate mass murder, but it's OK because it was all accidental. And, the Palestinians should stay ethnically cleansed.

  • A place where Palestine doesn't exist (Notes from a Zionist education)
    • Not just treat Palestinians as deserving basic human decency, but also acknowledging they're the indigenous people of what's now Israel, and deserving of at least equal rights.

      Best of luck educating everyone, I appreciate your attempt.

  • Stanford petition misrepresents resolution to divest from occupation
    • As far as recognizing "the legitimate national aspirations of both peoples" of the anti-BDS statement, I really don't recognize ridding a land of its most of its native people (in this case Palestinian Arabs) or banning them from living there as a legitimate aspiration of any people. Too bad that's a Zionist goal, necessary to create an exclusive Jewish state.

    • "Their [secular Israelis] claim is mostly: they were born in Israel and everyone has a right to live where they are born"

      B.S. If they made that claim, they would have allowed all the Palestinian refugees back to where they were born.

      "It is the anti-colonalist movement that needs to make a claim to a permanent racial inheritance over land not secular Israelis. On top of that secular Israelis make a historical claim that Jews originated in Judaea."

      a) Isn't making the "historical claim that that Jews originated in Judea" as a basis for Jewish rights to the land in fact making their claim as if it were due to permanent racial inheritance?
      b) Since the "historical claim that Jews originated in Judea" is false and only based on biblical myth anyway, that makes this claim a religious one of being God-given, as piotr said

  • Israel: Schabas resignation cannot ‘whitewash’ bias in UN war crimes inquiry
    • "Whoever can say something like “There are huge numbers of civilian casualties on one side and virtually no civilian causalities on the other, and so prima facie, there is evidence of disproportionality in the response that Israel is undertaking in order to protect itself” is showing himself to be biased. "

      If you count all the dead in WWII, I'm not sure Germany lost more. Are you saying all the dead people in Polish concentration camps don't matter in the calculus, all the dead Russians, French, and British? Or perhaps you are claiming the German attack on surrounding European countries was a just war?

      Oh, no you're claiming Israel's attack on neighboring states, to acquire territory by force of war and replace the native people with immigrant Jews, was a just war, and therefore killing 1000s of civilians to do so is justified.

  • Is inter-faith work between Jews and Muslims possible?
    • @Jeffb, there you go, mis-representing Palestinian grievances, one of which is that Israel seizes any homes in the occupied territories for the benefit of illegal settlers. Why should Palestinians under occupation be required to go to Israeli courts which mostly favor Israel or its settlers? Why can't they go to courts in a country in which they are citizens with equal rights under the law?

      You claiming the lack of protest by Zionists and Zionist organizations against this one rare instance of addressing a single fault by the state of Israel is the same thing as supporting Israel redressing Palestinian grievances - those same organizations and Zionists support Israel when it deliberately kills innocent civilians, they support Israel Israel when it imposes apartheid policies and its courts approve.

    • "Of course it [Palestinian grievances] is being addressed sincerely by American Jews. American Jews are sincerely telling Muslims that the Israeli government is the one in charge of addressing those grievances and they intend to support Israel and not other bodies as being the agency in charge."

      Almost all Zionists and Zionist organizations either entirely misrepresent Palestinian grievances, or utterly oppose any kind of redress by the guilty parties. Their only message is that Jews and the U.S. should support Israel and all attempts by Palestinian support groups to achieve redress should be suppressed. Many Zionist groups support causing more grievances. Frankly, I find this particular response to Sabith Kahn's article insincere.

  • Shit dead rabbis say about gentiles
    • In fact, it was though perusing the Chabad web site I discovered that Chabad officially values all human souls. Then it went on to qualify that, by saying only Jews are fully human. Everyone thinks they're cute.

      I suppose they've scrubbed that from their web site, and are putting on a benign face.

  • The 'bait & switch' politics of liberal Zionism
    • I would like to be fair. Anit-semitic (I mean the real ones) do something similar. I don't know how many times I've been reading one of their rants, which start with a few paragraphs of something I could agree with, then about 6 or 8 paragraphs down I get to a bunch of nutty gibberish blaming Jews for all kinds of nonsense. In fact, so do right-wing radio hosts - Glen Beck, Bil O'Reilly come to mind. They say a few grand generalizations I could agree with then start blaming Obama for non-problems. Perhaps bait-and-switch is a pretty common propaganda technique?

  • Alumni of the Israel Arts and Science Academy call on others to refuse military service
    • A brave statement. It shouldn't take being "gifted" to see the indoctrination for what it is. Congratulations, anyway, on seeing through it.

  • 'The past isn’t past': Palestinians and Israelis share eyewitness testimony to Nakba truth commission
    • Zochrot is to be applauded for their efforts towards full truth.

      South African anti-apartheid slogan: "Truth, reconciliation, and an end to apartheid"

      Liberal Zionist slogan: "Reconciliation, partial truth, and apartheid forever"

  • A point by point response to Alan Dershowitz’s 'Ten Reasons Why The BDS Movement Is Immoral'
    • It is negative, it is hurtful, it is wrong and it will be unsuccessful and worse it will push peace away for a very long time.

      Remembering the old adage, "any excuse will do for a tyrant" - when it comes to Israel's efforts towards ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians, it doesn't matter what they do or don't do, Israel will use it as an excuse for more ethnic cleansing and brutal policies.

      @shalom, you're happy to make excuses for the tyrant, I see. Poor Israel - BDS/delegitimization is hurtful and therefore mass murder and terror against innocent civilians because they happen to be non-Jewish Palestinian, even though it started well before BDS, can legititimately continue.

  • US guilty of war crimes in Palestine
  • On the use of provocative analogies (Nazism, fascism)
    • If the motive in killing 15 members of a group was the desire to kill all the members of a group or to see them disappear as an ethnic or racial group, I think you can say it was a genocidal act.

      It isn't a genocide of course under the common definition.

    • Israeli policy may not be genocidal, but there's plenty of evidence that many Israelis have genocidal intent towards Palestinians, including leading religious and political figures. Some in the army undoubtably take their cues from religious and settler leadership who have such genocidal intent.

      I agree that it's nothing like the nazi death camps. Nevertheless, I think you're underplaying the genocidal intent. Suppose global warming raised the sea so that there was absolutely no fresh water in Gaza and people started dying in mass numbers, the Israeli leadership would be quite happy, blame the Palestinians for not spending their resources building alternative sources, despite the fact that Israel bombs water treatment plants that could provide alternative sources.

  • Yale Jewish center to hold 'intellectual' panel on storm over ousted priest's comments-- without inviting the priest
  • ISIS and Israel allies against a Palestinian state
  • Giving up on the system: Leading Israeli human rights groups reject army request to file investigations on crimes in Gaza
  • Hamas is ISIS for dummies
  • I quit my job at the Jewish Community Center over a pro-Israel rally and they called me an anti-semite
    • I think we should get away from deciding for anyone else what their religious or ethnic identity means to them. It's not up to me to decide for any Jews what being Jewish means to them.

      That aside, I do notice that Jewish culture at least in the U.S. is pro-intellectual and pro-education, as opposed to a lot of pop culture that's sort of anti-intellectual, and I do think that the anti-authoritarian and critical strain is stronger among intellectuals (I suppose the tea party with their anti-government philosophy might also be considered anti-authoritarian if uncritically so). So Charlie's belief that being Jewish means being critical and anti-authoritarian has good grounds.

  • Alvin Rosenfeld's Holocaust complaint
    • Darn it, I would not have supported that IJAN ad if I realized it had said Jews were greedy, immoral and sexually perverse.

  • Richard Cohen says he married Israel and has been faithful during ups and downs
    • I surely read the biblical promises differently - my bible say the promise was to the descendants of Abraham of which Palestinians are far more qualified than modern Jews (not that they're really relevant, except to the religiously inclined)

      And certainly Europe made no promise to Jews in the sense Israel took them, that is, virtually all the European promises included at least some provisions for "the existing non-Jewish population" to continue to live in their homes, and their rights respected, instead of what Zionists did and are doing, that is, mass murdering and expelling them. In no way is Israel a fullfillment of any European promise.

    • @JeffB

      I suppose it's no use trying to talk to people enraptured by religious fanatacism such as your, however, the "people of Judah" long ago left Judaism as a religion and their descendants would be today's Palestinians

      I don't know where you get that any biblical promise means it's OK to mass murder non-Jews (i.e., "resurrect" Judaism by creating Israel) anyway.

  • I see five bears
    • I hate to spoil your beautiful story, but bears can be pretty dangerous. At national parks, they always tell me to keep away from mother bears who can be aggressively protective and do not approach. Someone said the bells Native Americans used to sew on their clothes were to give bears warning so they would run off.

      Not as dangerous as people of course.

  • Judaism's hijacking by Zionists drives 70% of secular Jews to marry non-Jews-- Koppman at Huffpo
    • All the Abrahamic religions seem to cherry-pick the bible. Some Christians read the bible and get Jesus' message as forgive those who trespass against you, others read Revelations and say that everyone but the true believers will be killed in a great conflagation and sent to hell. I don't think it's as important what's in the bible as what people believe or are taught. It's not up to me to decide one version is true Christianity over another, anymore than it's up to me to tell anyone else what the true version of Judaism is, or Islam, based on biblical texts.

      (fair notice, I'm an atheist myself)

  • Coming to a campus near you: ADL recruits student politicians for Israel trips
    • If somehow we can combine the person for whom "being Palestinian got me barred from visiting Palestine" with the ADL ...

      Then if they're barred, I wonder if they can sue the ADL for discrimination, get them barred from campus under whatever title it was that StandWithUs was suing campus groups for creating a hostile environment for Jews?

  • 'NYT' op-ed calls on Jews to abandon liberal Zionism and push for equal rights
    • "... liberal Zionism not only lacks agency; worse, it provides cover for the supremacist Zionism dominant in Israel today."

      Liberal Zionism always provided cover for supremacist Zionism.

  • My personal BDS
    • "[The Nakba] was out of a fear (justified or not), in the midst of a fight for a place to build a nation surrounded by enemies and obviously not welcomed from within – a fear that these people may potentially be hostile and harm the Zionist project. "

      She fails to mention that voting while Arab would harm the Zionist project. Within greenline Israel, here were estimated 650,000 Jews, and had they not been evicted an estimated 700,000 Arabs who were ethnically cleansed along with 150,000 or so who managed to stay. Clearly the sole reason

      "Those who were not suspected of being potentially hostile were allowed to stay, so ethnicity is not the issue, the issue is fear, possibly unwarranted but nonetheless very real.”

      If by hostile, she means likely to take up arms against Zionists, this is patently false. The zionists bombed whole neighborhoods and expelled the people in them, regardless of their potential hostility. The most notorious mass murder of the war was against the village of Deir Yassein which had deliberately stayed neutral, and the terrorists who conducted the massacre were well aware of this.

  • 'Lesson: The Jews will defend themselves even if it means killing children'
    • "You can wage an unjust war justly ..."

      No you can't. The example you cited, refusing to kill POWs, was an example of not taking part in war orders, that is, not actually waging war.

    • The rhetorical question, "If you had to kill 70,000 French to end Naziism would you do it." is rather curious. Is he implying Israel is killing innocent Palestinians in order kill what, Palestinianism?

      All this "brilliant" analysis is based on the premise Israel is defending itself. I don't think any neutral observer would say that Israel is defending itself, in expelling non-Jews and expanding its territory.

      It's far from perfect but a more analagous question is, "If you had to kill 10 million non-Aryans in order to defend the Aryan state, would you do it?"

  • Witnessing Gaza
    • Thanks, Betsy, you expressed my thoughts well.

      Human depravity is common, it tends not to get recorded by the governments or people doing it. It's always "the enemy" who's depraved, impure, the instigators against innocent victims (us).

      To say this is the end of [ethical] Jewish history as you know it, perhaps means you left 1948 out of Jewish history? I'm sorry, please don't throw out your ethical tradition with the loss of belief in innocent victimhood.

  • Israel's foundation in a 'terroristic campaign of expulsion, ethnic cleansing and murder' is the 'deep wound in that part of the world' -- Sullivan
    • The claim that Israel is more moral because it does not kill every Palestinian, whereas Hamas would kill every Jew if it had the oppurtunity bothers me.

      I think a fairer question is whether Israel would kill every Palestinian if it thought it could get away with it, absolutely no repercussions. I think it would, certainly it would kill all those who don't give up the right of return, or even claim that Palestine ever existed and they are it's indigenous people.

      It would like for Israel to have been "a land without a people for a people without a land". It would like to erase their existance in Israel. It would rather kill them than allow them that existance.

      Israel is kind of happy to leave a small minority that it can trot out now and then and say, look how enlightened we are.

      And on the other side, a fairer question is would Hamas want to kill every Jew if Israel allowed all Palestinians back under conditions of equal rights regardless of creed and forgiveness for past crimes (but maybe some restoration of land). I think institutionally they would leap at this kind of offer, even though they would like to see Islamic rule.

      None of these questions can be answered with facts. The issue of Israeli "restraint" vs. Hamas "extremism" is just an Israeli talking point - one that can't be countered, because they're untested.

    • I don't really want to defend Saddam Hussein or Assad, but another huge wound was our invasion of Iraq that toppled Hussein. Both Hussein and Assad ruled to keep their power, in a non-sectarian way, don't forget Hussein's foreign minister or something was a Christian. We killed 300,000 and attacked people in Falluja apparently because they were Muslims. The civil war that followed probably brings the death toll up to a million. We support the Isis people when they attack Assad, either indirectly or directly. The destruction of Christian and Yazeedee communities is the fallout from the destruction of Iraq. I put a large part of the blame on the pro-Israel crowd in government, they have been urging us to destroy any possible rivals and are quite happy with the massive chaos. It's not as if the U.S. has historically had any objection to brutal dictators like Saddam Hussein, or present fanatic Islamic rule like the current regime in Saudi Arabia.

      Well, Sullivan sort of allowed Harris to rant on. Interesting how Harris dismisses historical facts such as the Nakba as irrelevant to why people hate Israel while using historical facts such as the Holocaust as complete justification for it. Yeah, right. Israel mass murders people, demolishes their lives and homes and terrorizes them into exile but for some reason those people hate them because they're Jews. Maybe I'll go back and read it further.

      Anyway, this is from article 31 of the Hamas charter that I accessed through Harris's article: "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that. " I don't personally want to live under a religious state as described (I like the U.S.'s freedom of religion so I could become a pagan if I wanted), but on the other hand claims that Hamas is genocidal are off too. And frankly, when it comes to tolerating other religions, historically Islam has done a better job than either Christianity or Judaism.

  • Embedded deception in the BBC’s coverage of Israel's onslaught
    • "Israel is thus using children to break international law and continue its conflict with the Palestine."

      Israel isn't just using children to break international law, it is using them to consolidate conquest of territory by war. So it is using them in acts of aggressive war. Of course the children aren't legitimate targets themselves. But really, which is worse, hiding among civilians in a defensive war, which Hamas does (there being no where else), or employing civilians in aggressive war, which Israel does?

      Many of the settlers are armed, I think that might make them combatants too if it does for a Palestinian. Settlers are "participating in fighting" regardless (the children, one presumes, because their parents dragged them into it). Human rights organizations never make such a distinction, they designate settlers as "civilians" regardless of whether they are armed or regular members of armed groups, such as settlements.

  • 'One nation, one state, one leader' -- frightening slogan at Tel Aviv protest
    • That's my short experience at "projectreason" (I keep seeing it as "project treason") but I don't guess the bloggers were Israeli, just pro-Israel. Not really worth discussing anything with them. Deliberately blind, abusive... like you say.

      It would be nice to have a genuine dialogue. I guess that's expecting too much.

    • They may just be waiting for global warming to make Gaza completely uninhabitable. Then claim it's not their fault.

  • 'A blind evil rage that increased forever, day and night' --Mads Gilbert on Operation Protective Edge
    • Well, you know, if you went out when Hamas was firing those rockets, you would probably be safer than if you went out when they weren't. Since traffic accidents kill far more Israelis than the rockets and everyone else would be hiding, you'd be safer.

  • On being accused of anti-semitism by well meaning liberals
    • 'But this guess may just be a reflection of my own distaste for the ideas of “peoples” and group rights.'

      I get your point, the only reason "peoples" have rights is because individuals have rights.

      In many places around the world, at one time there was no such thing as private property. I think the Ottoman empire instituted private property around 1858. Before that everything was officially state land but communal rights to use the land by, e.g., a village or bedouin group were recognized. If they didn't use it in some cases it reverted to state land.

      With the institution of private property, much of it ended up in the hands of whoever was cognizent enough to register is, rather than split among the villagers. That's how you got large absentee landowners who were quite willing to sell to Zionists, and the people lost their rights.

      Anyway, in the sense of communally owned land at a village level, I would certainly favor a group right to a certain piece of land so long as its use was equitable within that group. I don't think it violates the "peoples" have rights because individuals have rights idea and on the whole I agree with you.

    • I would hope it's useful, but the pro-Israel crowd completely ignores facts and figures.

    • Yeah, heaven help me. After the post about Sam Harris, I went over to his project-reason web site and posted some information about the history and so forth on one of their discussion forums.

      Don't say I wasn't warned!

      Not a single person at that site was interested in examining facts, using critical thinking or eroding the influence of dogmatism and bigotry in our world. Rather the reverse. They're the typical zionists as you note, mendacious, out of context, counterfactual and the rest.

      Does anyone know why it's so important to Zionists that Palestine wasn't a state in 1920? I cannot figure out why it's important. Other than to maybe say that by extension, Palestinians didn't exist, therefore the land was empty. This is from people who self-identify as rational. ROTFLOL.

  • What Jim Fallows and I saw
    • I agree with Piotr on the al-Dura thing. I mean, good grief, why did the Israeli go to such incredible lengths to prove that the bullet could not have gone through the barrel the man and his son were hiding behind? No one in their right mind ever claimed that the bullets went through the barrel. You can't tell the exact angles from the pictures on line, but it looks to me that at least some of the kid would not have been behind the barrel, if the Israeli soldiers were shooting at a 30 degree angle.

  • The withdrawal that isn't
    • I think John Kerry is the least hypocritical of U.S. foreign secretaries in a long time. That, of course, is saying very little.

  • Israeli military destroyed el-Wafa hospital even though it knew there were no weapons inside
    • 100m is a good city block, 10 houses of more or less average lot width. If they can aim accurately enough to hit 4 small boys running from another attack, or even the buildings they claim they actually do target (as advertised on IDF TV), they could avoid hitting the hospital. Even if the rockets were fired from next door, it would not be any evidence that the hospital was being used to attack from. The rockets were not fired from the hospital. Therefore it was still protected.

  • NBC reverses; Mohyeldin to return to Gaza to cover 'Palestinian side of story'
    • Maybe that Richard Engel and the producer who didn't speak Arabic really didn't want to go to Gaza

  • Why I, a Palestinian-American Muslim, went to the White House Iftar and what I learned
    • Next time, all the people who boycotted should go and wear the Palestine scarf you wore. And not clap either. Wave in front of Dermer's face.

  • 'We are moving from Iron Dome to an iron fist': Israel launches ground invasion of Gaza
  • Jet Blue incident shifts from anti-Semitic story to anti-Palestinian one
    • I've had not-to-different experiences from supporters of Israel. Calling me names, approaching me in a threatening manner. Rosenberg is not reflective of the Jewish community, but she's utterly reflective of the pro-Israel crowd.

  • Israeli onslaught shatters western belief that Arabs are source of violence
    • I always think the Nazis exemplify the "Civilized man". After, the real differenced between "civilized" and "savage" people seem to be a) table manners and manner of dress and b) technology, especially as used for killing people. What could be more civilized than assembly-line mass murder? Savages would have merely attacked in a mass mob, using machetes.

  • Federal official fires gun at pro-Palestine demonstrators following scuffle in LA
    • Lots of people at those rallies have sticks, because the signs are on sticks, on both sides.

      I've certainly had a pro-Palestinian sign knocked out of my hand, as did one of my fellow protesters, and other very threatening moves against, like almost being shoved or hit, more than being called rude names by pro-Israel people. So I really believe the young man who says the flag was ripped out of his hand.

  • Israel's message to the Palestinians: Submit, leave or die
  • Understanding 'militant' as a cover-up for civilian deaths, and other ways international law helps clarify the Israeli attack on Gaza
    • If a reservist can put down her arms and become a civilian, why can't any "militant" do so as well? (funny that you use a female reservist as example, but whatever). Is the requirement that the reservist not have arms in his/her house, or on their person, or what? Does the fact that many settlers are armed make them "combatants?" even if they aren't directly attacking someone at the time? I mean, Palestinians are frequently described as "taking part in hostilities" when the only criteria seems to be membership in a militant group. I never hear settlers who are killed by Palestinians described as "taking part in hostilities," I never hear any Israeli who is other than an active-duty member of the armed forces described as other than "civilian" on the btselem web site.

  • 'Jewish' or 'Israeli' -- NYT, BBC, and CNN make different word choice
    • @Hopmi, all evidence says that Israel demolishes Palestinian homes largely to cause them to give up their land and leave it for Jews to take over. I see no evidence that you actually do understand your own side. There is a large difference between the actual reasons the Israeli government does something and their stated reasons. I doubt the U.S. government's real reason for launching the war on Iraq had anything to do with the terrorist attacks, either. I could forgive some Israeli people who may be propagandized into thinking they're under attack all the time, but not the government which constantly drums up that fear. And I've never read you do anything better than finding excuses for that same Israeli government.

      I don't know if you realize that it's the Palestinian civilians who have been under attack for 100 years by Zionists, you just take the side of the Israeli government. Right, so you find certain actions of the Israeli government abhorrent - but not the fundamental goal of ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from land Israel claims for Jews, which is the motivation behind those abhorrent actions? The Zionist goals, the Jewish majority in Israel could not have been achieved without actions such as home demolitions, and also, actions on par with burning people alive that you claim to find abhorrent.

  • 'Forward' editor says Presbyterian vote was anti-Semitic
    • @Dabakr, Isn't calling a point of view "infantile" rather disparaging? also stating that "whataboutery" the "is the dumbest phrase?" Are there any actual examples where you actually do what you claim, that is, read things here without disparaging them?

  • Kidnapped
    • Contrary to your assertion that Israel provides medical care for family members of their enemy, the P.A. and Abbas in particular have always been Israel's friend.

      As for Israel providing medical care other Palestinians from the occupied territories, such has often been accompanied by requirements that they become informers to the Israeli military. Which likely Abbas qualifies as.

  • Missing!
    • Just, in this case I think the "balance" is warranted.

      I don't know that the settler teens are innocent, however. I suppose they should be considered "innocent until proven guilty" of anything worse than illegal settlement activity (which would in my judgement deserve hefty fines paid by their parents if they are under-age, until the situation is rectified, not imprisonment, "kidnapping," or death).

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