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There are all sorts of things that never make it in to the discourse Judaism is not hatred. So Zionism is not Judaism. It's Mensches versus Cossacks. I am with the Mensches. We have to get Jews back to Menschkeit. The religion didn't survive this long by being asshole focused. "I am scared. I am scared that we will continue living like this. And that fear scares me." "But in the long run, a hostile region like that cannot be policed, even by a nuclear-armed Israel. It will simply do to Israel what some of the wars have done to us on a smaller scale. Attrite it, tire it, fatigue it, demoralize it, cause emigration of the best and the first, and then some sort of cataclysm at the end which cannot be predicted at this stage because we don’t know who will have what by when. And after all, Iran is next door. It might have some nuclear capability. Suppose the Israelis knock it off. What about Pakistan and others? The notion that one can control a region from a very strong and motivated country, but of only six million people, is simply a wild dream." In the corners there is light That is good for you And behind you, I have warned you, There are awful things

Showing comments 2100 - 2001

  • 'Israelism' documentary tracks changing generational attitudes of American Jews
    • @DraperRobert

      "My grandfather prosecuted Dachau war criminals. Later he wrote a book called “After Fifteen Years.” Its premise was that Nazism can happen anywhere, once good people start believing lies while not believing that those who are different from them are human beings."

  • Gaza killings are rending the Jewish community
    • @Broadside.

      Once is enough to visit Israel. The country is cheap and shoddy. It is also tacky. The people are rude. There is very little sophistication. The buildings look like they were thrown up quickly. There is an air of menace.
      It is hard to believe any of them are special.

    • There is definitely more awareness that Israel is a problem but the level to which it has percolated inside the community is still not enough to get to the trigger point. Maybe intuitive Jews are joining the dots. MBTI S ones aren't.
      Schumer was the one who asked "are there any votes in it" and the Groupthink is still the reference.

      Israel reminds me of a person who becomes a murderer or a child abuser. There are pathologies which are not shared with the general public. Israel could not behave normally even if it wanted to. I feel sorry for people like the Jons who keep shilling for someone who is clearly off the rails. It is too late for a culture of dissent.

      This means that there will be more massacres. There will be more Jews falling off the bandwagon. There will be more non Jews joining dots.
      And then at some stage we will have a tipping point.

    • The 2 tragedies/ obscenities are linked. The trauma of the former is the core of the latter.
      Zionism has gone on far longer than the Shoah. Behavioural patterns are easy to identify. It is a paranoid system without any equilibrium.

    • "Imagine thousands of protestors in Gaza marching on the Hamas leadership, demanding peaceful negotiations and recognition of a shared capital with shared legitimate claims. "

      Hamas thought that through already. Israel wants everything. Netanyahu wrote the book in 1993.

    • Imagine if all the costs were included.
      The community wouldnt be stuck in L'Oreal mode.

    • "B’Tselem’s view that the killings are illegal." I hate this. Another flavour is "East Jerusalem is disputed. You say it is occupied."

      Law is black and white. There is no nuance. There are no views.
      Israel shot unarmed protestors dead. That is illegal.

      100224 Joe Sacco talked about balance and objectivity in relation to his work in a recent interview. "I find it very difficult to be objective when to me there is a clear case of a people being oppressed," he said. "I’m not sure what objective means in a situation like that. I would rather be honest about what’s going on."

  • Falsely accusing Palestinians of anti-Semitism is malicious
    • 3. Hasbara is their identity. Israel didnt exist pre 48 and the identity had to be invented.

      5 They have to kill all enemies because they can't afford a long war. They have so many enemies because they are paranoid and vicious.

    • His parents Mira and Max must be so disappointed. Our son the rapist.

    • What a super connection

    • Sharansky should never have been rescued frop the Soviet Union. The Soviets must have figured out that he was an ass hole.

    • Maybe one of the saddest things is what kind of people Zionism turns people into.
      In the case of the US, war is part of the economic structure.

    • I don't see why Palestinians should be expected to have any respect for the Star of David given how Israel abuses it.

      Here's a story starring Gwyneth Paltrow as Gaza and Weinstein as Israel (how perfect). . Unfortunately there is no Brad Pitt for Gaza at the moment.

      "I told him right away and I was very shaken by the whole thing,” said Paltrow. “We were at the opening of Hamlet on Broadway. Harvey was there and Brad Pitt – it was like the equivalent of throwing him against the wall, energetically.”

      “He said, ‘If you ever make her feel uncomfortable again, I’ll kill you.’ Or something like that. It was so fantastic. He leveraged his fame and power to protect me at a time when I didn’t have fame or power yet.”

      Paltrow first accused Weinstein of sexual harassment in the New York Times, where she said that after the alleged incident, he rang her and told her not to speak to anyone else about it. “I thought he was going to fire me,” she said. “He screamed at me for a long time. It was brutal.”"

    • I think that the key point is that Zionism brooks no criticism. It is a paranoid system. Instead, critics are slurred with the tag of anti Semitism. This is wrong. It is also destabilising over the medium term. Constructive criticism helps organisations to grow healthily.

      Zionism is a deeply flawed ideology. By covering this up the people who could help to reform it and secure its future are shunned. What ends up happening is that thugs with a sense of impunity take over. In history such systems have always collapsed.

      One of my favourite examples is the Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb.

    • A psychosis known as folie a deux is where a delusion is shared from one individual to another.

      Israel is a case of national psychosis where almost the whole Jewish society spends most of its time in a delusion.

      Since 1948 the problem has always been the same. The land was not empty. It does have a history. It does have a people.

  • Activists disrupt Philadelphia Orchestra's farewell performance before 'cultural diplomacy' tour to Israel
    • By that logic, Jackdaw, Wallenberg was a loser. He should have let the Nazis kill those Hungarian Jews.
      Deep down zionists like you fear that the Palestinians will do to Israeli Jews what Israeli Jews now do to Palestinians. But the Palestinians are not paranoid like you are.

  • Documenting Palestinian invisibility for 40 years -- an interview with James Zogby
  • 'NYT' columnist says killing Palestinian civilians is... good for Palestinians
    • Rosner used to write for the Jerusalem post. He is a smart ass right winger who thinks settlers are justified. He is a symptom of what is wrong in visible Judaism.

  • Rob Malley and Chris Hayes can't talk about Adelson's influence in scrapping Iran deal
  • Israeli military shot over 500 Palestinians in the head during Gaza protests
    • This song was on the radio and it reminded me of Gaza

      "Anything that's worth having
      Is sure enough worth fighting for
      Quitting's out of the question
      When it gets tough, gotta fight some more"

      Gaza has to fight. Netanyahu wrote a book in 1993 called "a place among the nations" in which he outlined current Israeli policy. No statehood, no East Jerusalem, no freedom for Palestinians.
      Netanyahu is insane. So is Israeli society.

  • Israel detains Palestinian teen with severe head injury, again
  • Hundreds of New Yorkers take to the streets in support of Gaza
  • 'Likudism' invades the academy: continued Zionist attacks on activism and scholarship at SFSU
    • A lot of Israelis by the same token are probably unemployable.

      David Shulman
      "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice. "

      • An Israeli who posted a testimony on Facebook about the “medieval-style” torture of Palestinians he assisted in during his army service in the occupied territories has faced a virulent backlash from fellow Israelis, including threats of violence.
      • Yuval Lev published the testimony in Hebrew on his Facebook page on 8 November.
      • “Today I think that the real punishment for a sore conscience is that you simply cannot delete what happened from your brain, and you are sentenced to remembering it forever, with no ability to forget,” Lev wrote.
      • Lev recounted that “one day two fellows came to the [military] camp looking like Shabak men, and after a short chat with our commanders, took four of us (myself included) to a mission lasting a few days - to secure a secret Shabak interrogation facility, in the heart of one of the violent, rough neighborhoods around.”
      • Shabak is the Israeli acronym for the General Security Service or GSS, a secret police force notorious for its involvement in extrajudicial execution and torture of Palestinians over many decades.
      • “Medieval-style torture facility”
      • “We went gladly, of course, full of pride for having been selected for the important, patriotic mission which would save lives and prevent attacks,” Lev wrote, adding:
      • Without exaggeration and without even a drop of melodrama for enhancing the effect: we arrived at a medieval-style torture facility.
      • A long, narrow hallway, white fluorescent bulbs and the stench of bunker air, on the left a row of interrogation rooms, with the shouts of the interrogators and the screams of the interrogatees always coming out of them, and on the right, along a gray concrete wall, stood a line of “detainees.” stood and waited for their turn to be interrogated. Legs shackled, hands behind their backs, a jute sack over their head, standing in absolute silence. As surrealistic as a movie about the Inquisition. At the end of the hall, on a sort of giant metal mesh, another detainee was hung by his handcuffs like Jesus on the cross, with his hands up and to the sides and his sack on his head, groaning with pain, and a soldier screaming at him and beating him with the butt of his rifle.
      • Lev, who works as a marketing consultant in Tel Aviv, described witnessing other torture practices, some that are well-documented for their use by Israel, including denying victims food, water and sleep, and beating them savagely when they urinated on themselves.
      • Torture during the first intifada
      • In Lev’s written account on Facebook, he stated that the events occurred during the second intifada which began in 2000, but in a telephone conversation he told The Electronic Intifada that that had been a typo and the events he described occurred during the unarmed first intifada, around 1989, when he was in the army. Lev said he is now 44 years old, which would have made him about 21 in 1989.
      • Lev concluded his account by saying that this was the first time he had spoken out:
      • What I do know is that many people like me saw and took part in terrible deeds, like these and other kinds, by act or by omitting to act. There is no way to justify such conduct toward human beings, whoever they are, for any reason. Even if under the circumstances at the time our conduct was not deemed to be a crime, in the legal definition of crimes, I have no doubt that we committed crimes and sins, towards them and towards ourselves, as human beings and as a society.
      • Reactions: “Hate and anger”
      • Lev’s post was followed by hundreds of Hebrew-language comments expressing violent sentiments and condemning him for speaking out. In a comment that garnered 71 “likes,” Mor Isachar quipped, “What do you expect? For them to be given a 5 star hotel?”
      • “That’s exactly what’s supposed to happen there,” wrote Boaz Lalush, “you weren’t supposed to be there, you should have served [your military duty] in the Qiryah [base in downtown Tel Aviv] you cross-dressing leftist, you.”
      • Several comments used “cross-dresser” as a homophobic epithet.
      • Yosef Edri explicitly justified the torture: “First of all, you don’t know who those people who stood before you with sacks on their head, or how much blood they had on their hands, and maybe the information that we maybe extracted from him in a way that was maybe not nice… saved the lives [souls] of some dozens if not hundreds of people.”
      • For Amir Ben-Haim, torture is the very reason Israel exists: “Dude… such facilities are the reason we have a state… stop being [horrified], there is one path they understand, and that is force!”
      • This is only a sampling of the comments on Lev’s post, but it is also consistent with the widespread racist and violent anti-Arab sentiments of Israelis on Facebook documented in other instances previously.
      • Lev told The Electronic Intifada that in addition to the publicly visible comments on Facebook, he had received abusive private messages, some of which were threatening.
      • “I’m not a political person,” Lev said when asked why he published the testimony, “I wrote it as a personal experience.”
      • While he hasn’t been totally surprised by the negative reactions, “I didn’t expect this much hate and anger,” hold told The Electronic Intifada.

    • The bots have to control the narrative. Theirs is mythical rather than real so no competition is tolerated. The problem is that hasbara now is very weak and that the Palestinians are more eloquent. The bots can lawfare all they want but the truth will out.

    • Lawfare losers.

  • UN head says Gazans 'caged in a toxic slum from birth to death' as human rights council votes to investigate Israel
    • Nathan

      Best thing for the Palestinians to do is hang around while Israel advances its suicide. Israel chose one apartheid state. Israel chose to spend less money than average on education. Israel chose to.spend $100 bn on Yesha.
      Nobody outside cares about Israel. That is how sovereignty works. You make your choices and you take the consequences.

    • Israel was supposed to ratify its borders in a constitution and it never did.
      Israel made a few promises in 1948 that it did not keep.

    • Zionism is groupthink, Mooser. All you need to think is in it so you don't need to think ! Nothing can go wrong. Trust me. Smoch alai !

    • Annie

      Ynet is a settler outfit. So is Arutz 7. Any material from either is horseshit. Same goes for Jpost and anything belonging to Adelson.

      I used to debate Israel Palestine on the Guardian site with a bot going under the moniker "HansSchouten". He would defend anything and justify it all by insisting Israel wanted peace. Now it's 2018 and clear that the status quo is permanent. There will not be any peace. There will not be a Palestinian state .

      And that means that Zionist commentary now is pathetic. There is zero upside. And bots are left defending barbarity. Which is not kosher.

    • Haley is wrong on the border issue. Israel controls the air, land and sea of Gaza as well as the electromagnetic space, the population registry, the food allowed in and who goes in and out. Israel is the occupier. Gaza is a district of Eretz Israel Hashlemah.
      There is no border. Neither does Israel have a border with the West Bank. Israel does not have any declared borders. This is why it does not have a constitution. Instead it has Basic Laws.

  • Facing the Past in Montgomery: Beyond the Nakba to historical justice
    • As John Trudell used to say, the past is in the present.
      The Jewish past explains Israel today.

  • Protesting is not enough
    • Keith

      Neoliberalism only has a few years left. There is too much debt in the system. The time value of money is suspended. The velocity of money is atrocious.
      Here is another sign flashing red

      After the next crash Central Banks will have no choice other than inflation. Israel donors like Singer won't like it.
      We are close to a tipping point. At a similar juncture in history Tammany Hall collapsed. Zionism is not ready for what is coming.

    • Finkelstein did call Israel lunatic but has he followed through on what that means ? 1948 is back in play or will be soon. Israel is not stable. That means the status quo is unlikely to hold. What counts is not what is feasible now under international law given power dynamics. It is where Israel is going. So his view on 2SS v IP1V which is rooted in pragmatism will be overtaken by developments .

    • I'm not so sure, Keith. If Gaza were stable maybe Israel could continue to pull psychological strings but the cruelty has gone beyond the point of reason and the Strip is slowly suffocating.
      Gaza is 2 million people now. If it collapses it won't be possible for the junta to Hebrewsplain it away. Israel's weakness is what it is doing 24/7 to actual people. The palestinians need to leverage that. Take Hamas out of the equation. Hamas can still organise resistance.

      I really admire Norman Finkelstein but what is happening now to Israel is not in the data he has studied so carefully. Israel is in a state of national psychosis.

    • Hamas needs to think strategically. The siege is 11 years old. Mental health problems are off the scale in Gaza- Israel uses Hamas as a bogeyman to silence dissent both Inside and outside Israel.

      Hamas wants the best for the Palestinian people . It has strong networks and integrity.
      Hamas should step aside and say it no longer wants to rule Gaza. It should invite the international community in. Only then can the true horror of Israeli policy towards Gaza be understood in languages other than arabic.

      We need a game changer.

  • Hundreds gather in Boston to protest Gaza killings and 70 years of ethnic cleansing in Palestine
    • I just watched it . Magnificent. The Bolivian government is also indigenous. They know all about colonialism and the dehumanisation that goes with it.

  • Donald Trump is a hero to Jewish Israelis
    • The tzitzit fly attacks cattle.
      Every religion has a version of the magic underwear of the Mormons.
      They bring the faithful closer to God. But nothing brings people closer to God than torturing civilians. I think. It makes sense in Hebrew

    • The people in charge in Israel now are a long way from Anne Frank. They remind me of Dolan,the 4 chan même Duck.
      "A poorly drawn Donald Duck who speaks in a broken English. He is a homicidal, bisexual, depraved necrophiliac and sociopath. He is also oddly polite, frequently saying "pls" as he rapes and murders his friends and family. He is always smiling because he does what he loves for a living. He is feared and loathed by all except for the Brolans, his loyal followers. He is classified as a "meme".

      Dolan's friend and enemy. Often is raped and tortured by Dolan. His quote is "fak u dolan"

      Dolan:hey gooby lets go at mcdolans tu get an big mek 
      Gooby: k 
      Dolan: 1 big mek pls. *whispering* with sh#t in it pls 
      Gooby: k now giv me te big mek 
      Dolan: k 
      Gooby: *omnom* this big mek tasts lik sh#t 
      Dolan: is acually sh#t 
      Gooby: fak u dolan 
      Dolan: gooby pls"

      Gooby is the Palestinians
      The Brolans include the evangelicals, the UK board of deputies, Hannity, Adelson and the ADL.


      Australia has aligned with the United States as one of only two countries to vote against an independent investigation into the recent killing of 60 Palestinians in Gaza.

      The United Nations human rights council held a special meeting on Friday night to discuss the “deteriorating human rights situation in the occupied Palestinian territory”.

      Twenty-nine countries, an overwhelming majority, voted to urgently set up an “independent, international commission of inquiry” to investigate recent violations of human rights and international humanitarian law there. 

    • Echi, some sort of public penance will be necessary

      Do you reject Zionism? 
      R. I do. 
      V. And all its works? 
      R. I do. 
      V. And all its empty promises and dead Jews ? 
      R. I do. 
      V. Do you believe in international law, human rights and the laws of war ?
      R. I do. 
      V. Do you believe in property rights, equality and justice ?
      R. I do. 

    • Words and phrases used to describe Trump

      Globe fucker
      Stoking fear
      Everything negotiable.
      Craven cynical corrupt
      Chaotic governance
      not i n touch w reality.  Expression of spiritual blackout.
      Brutal father and mother with whom no relationship. Hunger for love. Greed Lust envy so visible.
      a creature of lies, rants, scams, and rages.

      A Day trader
      -Disregard for truth
      -Self interest
      -Inability to admit he is wrong
      Consistent line is unilateralism
      Blusterer thin skinned charlatan, sexual harasser bigot
      Naive ignorant detached from reality
      Sense of grievance
      every action gratuitously evil

      He respects authoritarians
      Ignorant coarse boastful cruel
      Bullying greed showing off misogyny
      third grade theatrics
      Incompetence and broken promises
      Instinct when criticised is attack, vilify and suppress
      Unpredictable temperamental impetuous
      White supremacist kleptocrat
      Vindictive chaos
      Impulsive thin skinned combative
      Dishonest bravado
      Lying fantasist

      Casual humiliation
      Erratic, irascible ill informed dishonest
      Dominates news like fart dominates a car
      Voraciously aggressive
      Capricious egocentric volatile
      Scant accountability n contempt for rules
      Propagator of mayhem
      Bigotry racism homophobia anti intellectualism calculated religious absolutism big data autocracy media hatred
      Easy to surprise ppl if you just make shit up.
      Fear mongering
      Gonzo president

      Alec Baldwin sez playing him is unpleasant cos he is angry and frustrated
      Americas Idi Amin
      Not self possessed
      They can't write policies that make sense, they can't implement policy, they can't get their stories straight and they can't close the deal.
      Reaction to being challenged is belligerence
      High tolerance for chaos
      He said he wd bomb the shit out.of ISIS
      Trump’s dreams preceding his own unexpected ascent were, quite obviously, the opposite: he wanted to be the man on the gilded throne, with all the cameras trained on him, transfixed by the spectacle of power being wielded. 
      eternal, bottomless ego gratification
      Breaking news fatigue.  not i n touch w reality.  Expression of spiritual blackout.
         Eclipse of Integrity honesty decency .  Disregard of rule of law. Expression of worst of American culture. 
       No mention of human rights as president makes U-turn from campaign rhetoric on Islam

      He has a face you would never, ever get tired of punching.

      The briefing papers McMaster’s team drew up before this trip had to be condensed to a few bullet points on a single page for each issue, and even then Trump grew bored of reviewing them before departure, and groused about how long the whole excursion would take.

      There is no right and wrong . There is winning and losing
      A hurt boy who wants to be loved.
      He lives in deficit. A black hole. All he wants is for people to love him. Nothing to sustain him inside .
      Psychological influences are authoritarian.
      Never read a book.
      Short attention span.
      Cynical and one dimensional
      I do it to do it but could never get enough attention.

      Where are all the leaks coming from? the fact that they keep coming is a sign of the state of near collapse of the White House staff. It’s not an exaggeration to say that Trump has the most unhappy staff ever, with some feeling a higher duty to warn the public about what they see as a danger to the country.
      From the stories that emanate from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue the impression one gets is that Trump is a nearly impossible person to work for: he screams at his staff when they tell him something he doesn’t want to hear; he screams at them as he watches television news for hours on end and sees stories about himself

      The art of the deal meets Dr Strangelove .
      Compulsive need to defend status
      nothing comes before Trump and airing a grievance.
      Malevolence tempered by incompetence
      Now malevolence exacerbated by incompetence.
      Petulant sociopath.
      Donald reportedly told Theresa May he will not make a state visit to the USA until he is guaranteed a "better reception".
      Paranoia and narcissism.

      world class narcissist/predator.
      Triggers for temper. 1 if he thinks sb lying 2 if caught by surprise 3 if criticised 4 if sb tries to stop him doing sth 5 if sb tries to control him

    • Trump has decided to cut food programs for 2 million Americans. I guess they are not as important as Israelis.‏ @TalkPoverty ·
      In 2019 the 1% will get over $84 billion in tax cuts from the #TrumpTaxScam. That's more than the cost of the entire SNAP program--which House Republicans are now trying to slash. #HandsOffSNAP

    • Israel is pretty shoddy for a supposedly exceptionalist land. Israeli education is mediocre. Israeli building standards are crap.

    • It is still before the great Israeli catastrophe that ended the occupation and broke the ideology of Zionism. Israelis don't know this. Netanyahu is still seen as a success rather than a traitor.

      It is a constant struggle for rational thinking people to imagine process/consequences in the absence of rationality. However it does look as though Israel is on the same path as Imperial Japan.

       "During the war we were taught that Japan, the land of the Gods, was a righteous, divine country and that America was an evil, barbaric country. We didn't actually believe this, but merely followed along, thinking that, since there was no such thing as a just war , such poisonous, simple minded rhetoric was a way to whip up a state of furious belligerence in the people. Again, we had doubts as to whether or not Japan would be capable of guiding the Greater Asia c0-prosperity sphere.. We did not think we would be defeated. It was not that we were so convinced of victory we never thought of defeat. It was simply unbearable to contemplate it, and because we could not imagine what our fate would be afterward we shielded our eyes from the possibility and went on believing in certain victory.
      People of the future will find it strange that during the war we so easily accepted an education smacking of distorted self esteem and hostility that advocated such preposterous ambitions, but for us the reasons seemed compelling"
      Diary of writer Yamada Futaro, October 1945, quoted in "So Lovely a country will never perish" p 152-153

    • Trump is a risk taker. He doesn't consult with people. He doesn't read briefs.
      And Israelis are messianic. They believe that history is over.
      They probably deserve each other.
      I am glad that Netanyahu has decided to lash Israel to the Republican Party.

  • Debunking 18 claims justifying this week's Gaza massacre
    • Zionism has been fake news from the get go.

    • @Mooser

      The picture of Dorian Israel.
      By Day he is the glamorous tech startup nation but there is a mirror at home where his face turns into Gaza.

    • The cost of the Jewish state
      He wrote of his personal sadness. His parents divorced when he was a child, and Mohanned felt rejected by his father. His readers could relate to this pain too, because every family in Gaza is broken: most have had members killed in the conflict, and many have also been separated by years of exile, or torn apart by imprisonment. Thousands of Palestinians are today locked up in Israeli jails.

      He had a large female readership: women were drawn to his particular melancholy. “He could write about the absurdity of all our lives – the humiliation, as well as the tragedy. He knew this was a fake place,” said one young woman I know, who had escaped through the tunnels into Egypt in order to take up her American scholarship. “It’s normal,” she laughed.

      “It’s like this,” said Mustafa AlAssar, a 17-year-old Gazan who wants to study international law but can’t, as there is no such course in Gaza, and he cannot leave. “You suddenly realise you can’t be the person you want to be in Gaza. And you can’t show anyone outside who you are, because you can’t get out. So you can’t be the person you want to be.”

      For the first time in all the years I have been reporting from Gaza, I encountered children begging, heard talk of prostitution, and saw evidence of widespread drug addiction and domestic abuse, often in homes where as many as 10 people lived in a single room. They had not been rehoused since the 2014 bombardment. In this devastation, there was evidence that Islamic State was gaining support

    • Annie, reading that 2004 article now what is laughable is the Israeli attempt to paint the Palestinians as savages. Jon S continues with the tradition on this site in 2018. Israeli society has been broken by the occupation. Democrats and US Jews are turning away in large numbers. The real loser is Yossi Israeli.

    • I always check out @davidfrum for the highest class hasbara. Jon S also uses the 50 Hamas même up thread.

      David Frum Retweeted

      Laura Stone




      Conservative leader Andrew Scheer rips into PM Trudeau for failing to condemn Hamas, whom the CPC leader blames for the violence in Gaza #cdnpoli

      David Frum Retweeted

      Senator Linda Frum




      Trudeau calls Israel's effort to protect 1948 internationally recognized border against armed incursion "appalling." True friends of Israel knew it was only a matter of time. First opportunity in office to defend Israel's right to self defence & our PM condemns Israel not Hamas.

      Senator Linda Frum


      Hamas itself acknowledges that 50 of the casualties in battle at Gaza Strip border were its own gunmen. Yet @JustinTrudeau has condemnation only for Israel - and cannot even bring himself to mention the terrorist group that incited the violence and hopes to benefit from it (link:…

  • Peace begins with Israel ending the Nakba
    • Why is it so important to hasbarise the dead baby?

    • Israel reminds me of Freisler, the Nazi judge. The attempt to create an alternative reality, beyond what decent people would consider appropriate. Maybe it sounds ok in Hebrew. It is bullshit in English. Because it always comes back to people and how you treat them. Freisler was killed by an American bomb in 1945.

    • Israel isn't interested in peace. But there are several interesting dynamics that are slowly destabilising it. So there is not going to be any happily ever after.

    • It's a system thing, nut. It doesn't matter how I feel about Israel.

    • Israeli society is insane. The treatment of Gaza is part of it. Behind it all is the fear of the settler. Israel is right in the middle of a huge Muslim region. Jewish Israelis are afraid of Muslims. Israel will not aim for peace because it is afraid of the Palestinians shafting Israel.
      Because Israeli society is not rational it cannot analyse systemic problems rationally.

    • When Israel decided to occupy the West BanK and Gaza in 1967 it set in motion the process by which Zionist Jews would become a minority in Eretz Israel Hashlemah.
      Apartheid will destroy Israel. There has to be a better alternative.

  • Murder as a way to make a political point
    • Einat Wilf is deluded . The further into psychosis Israel goes the stronger its temporariness.

      Israel is possible because of outside political support. American Jews and American politicians. European elites. European voters. These people need to feel that Israel is house trained. If it isn't bad things will happen for Israel. The notion that Israeli control of Jerusalem is permanent is for the birds. Israel cannot manage apartheid without destroying itself. The Zionist model does not recognise the social and political costs of apartheid.

  • 'NYT' writer who claims Zionism and human rights are intertwined ignores Palestinians
    • Great call. The Confederacy, like Zionism , was a groupthink issue. "The conventional wisdom gives way not so much to new ideas as to the massive onslaught of circumstances with which it cannot contend", as JK Galbraith said.

  • Gaza massacre ends American political oath: Israel support is bipartisan
    • Eljay, it has to be linked to money. In 2011

      average income for:
      - a jew in Jerusalem: $16,000
      - a jew in central Israel: $24,000
      - a Palestinian living in occupied Jerusalem: $4,000
      - a West Bank Palestinian: $800
      Gaza might have been $300

      The cruelty and murder are ultimately about money. In a free market a mediocrity like our history teacher could get a 40% pay cut. Israelis will do anything to keep Gaza in chains.

      Shir Hever wrote a super book on the political economy of the occupation.

    • 1. Nir Barkat gave a few numbers at about 2:35 in this 2011 interview, average income for:
      - a jew in Jerusalem: $16,000
      - a jew in central Israel: $24,000
      - a Palestinian living in Jerusalem: $4,000
      - a West Bank Palestinian: $800

      Gaza is around $300

    • It shouldn't be about the massacre. What is truly evil is the system that Israel runs
      WikiLeaks: Israel aimed to keep Gaza economy on brink of collapse
      Cable from the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv says Israeli officials wanted Gaza's economy 'functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis.'
      By Reuters Tags: Gaza
      Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis, according to U.S. diplomatic cables published by a Norwegian daily on Wednesday.

      Three cables cited by the Aftenposten newspaper, which has said it has all 250,000 U.S. cables leaked to WikiLeaks, showed that Israel kept the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv briefed on its internationally criticized blockade of the Gaza Strip.

      The territory, home to 1.3 million Palestinians, is run by the Islamist Hamas group, which is shunned by the West over its refusal to recognize Israel, renounce violence or accept existing interim Israeli-Palestinian peace deals.

      "As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed to (U.S. embassy economic officers) on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge," one of the cables read.

      Israel wanted the coastal territory's economy "functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis", according to the Nov. 3, 2008 cable.

      In a speech in January 2008, then-Prime Minister Ehud Olmert appeared to spell out that policy, which has since been eased in the wake of an international outcry over a deadly Israeli raid last May on a Turkish aid ship trying to break the blockade.

      "We will not harm the supply of food for children, medicine for those who need it and fuel for institutions that save lives," Olmert said at the time.

      "But there is no justification for demanding we allow residents of Gaza to live normal lives while shells and rockets are fired from their streets and courtyards (at southern Israel)," he added.

      Israel says it has significantly relaxed the blockade since May, with dozens of truckloads of goods entering the territory daily. Aid organizations have said shipments should be increased further.

      Palestinians say impoverished Gaza remains effectively a "prison" sealed off by Israel, and have called for an opening to allow normal trade and other links with the world.

    • Hard to say. Not enough tea leaves. But Zionist power has probably peaked.
      The Pew numbers are very interesting. Netanyahu can't sell nihilism to ordinary Americans.
      Evangelicals lap it up, of course, because of the Rapture. But they are a minority.

      The other thing is that Israel's group brain has gone deep into criminal territory. Israel can't stop itself. The media will be back because there will be more massacres. Gaza is Amalek to Yossi Israeli

    • There is a lot of bronze age wisdom in Judaism. Stories from Persia about power and treachery became a Jewish Holiday. To remind the people. But the people lose their way and stray from the path of righteousness. they always do. They worship false gods like nukes. And they make bad calls. Boteach is playing a bit part in a Greek tragedy. He doesn't realise . A huge sweep of history and he can't change the ending.

      I know i shouldnt've did that
      I know its gon' come right back
      I know its gon' destroy everything I made
      Its probably gon' get ya boy sent away
      But this game I play, ain't no way to fix it
      Its inevitable -

      Now you're
      When you should've scaled back,
      Now you're
      Right into they lap
      Falling, they applaud and they screamin' at the screen
      "Damn, you fucked up!" like your favorite Bible scene

  • After the Gaza massacre, how can Jews sleep well at night?
    • "If you were running or moderating a site that tried to put any kind of positive face on any aspect of Zionism, in English"

      I would sell the site to Jon S, No, I would pay him. Because he knows the words. He knows where the g spot is. Do you believe in Israel after Gaza ?

    • Surely it is pretty obvious by now that Israel has very little to do with Jewish values. Israel is paranoid, cruel and vicious. How many Jewish schools teach those values to kids? Why is it so hard for Jewish people to say that Israel does not reflect their Judaism, their values?

    • Zionism is a naive ideology. I think it's partly due to messianism. Party due to the lack of geopolitical experience in the group. Partly because Palestine was a bad choice of site.
      Partly due to this from Shulman in the NYR in 2014:

      "One has to bear in mind that Israelis live in a largely mythic world, a somewhat modified and vastly simplified version of the Iliad. In this starkly polarized vision of reality, in which Israelis are by definition innocent victims of dark, irrational forces operating against them, heroic death in war always makes sense, and violent coercion is the option both of necessity and of choice"

      No victories are permanent or final. Hegemony has constantly to be worked on, maintained, renewed, revised. Excluded social forces, whose consent has not been won, whose interests have not been taken into account, form the basis of counter-movements, resistance, alternative strategies and visions …and the struggle over a hegemonic system starts anew.

      There is no Yahweh rooting for Likud. It is the same as it ever was. There is risk management and if there is none there is the wolf. There are Warriors coming in from either the East or the West and trashing the Temple.

      Israeli groupthink is fake news. Israel is deluded. If we were in the Old Testament there would be Jeremiah. The bots would denounce him as a self hater.

  • For we are God's special victims (an ode to the state of Israel)
    • Super comment, Brewer. This is a huge topic. The lived Palestinian experience was low key and in tune with the environment, as most peasant life is.

      Zionism is a lot of words but the execution is dreadful. Back in the Bronze age when most of the key Jewish texts were written nobody thought bout the environment. It isn't high on the agenda in any yeshiva. And the 17 families who control Israel couldn't care less.

    • Bullshit, Naftush. And even if they were Hamas what gave Israel the right to murder them in cold blood?
      Every time you post bullshit you identify yourself as a loser.

    • I would be worried about God returning to Old Testament style behavior. She was known for this when the people were led astray by characters similar to Netanyahu.

      In 2 Samuel 24, King David decided to take a census of the men of fighting age. The prophet Gad was sent to David to announce God’s displeasure with the taking of the census. The punishment for David’s sin: “The Lord sent a pestilence on Israel from that morning until the appointed time; and seventy thousand of the people died” (2 Samuel 24:15).

  • West's failure to act will be cause of the next Gaza massacre
    • I don't think the embassy changes anything. The biggest dynamic in the next decade of Israel/Palestine will be the collapse of Gaza. And that will destroy Israeli smugness and projections of indefinite calm. It will throw the IDF into ongoing panic. Israel will have no hasbara to fight with. Gaza is like a sewage tank hanging in the sky over Tel Aviv. The next stage of the conflict will be the purest chaos. Israel has spent the last 50 years saying Smoch alai- trust me.

      There is a price for overdoing it. And US Jews will not hang around either. Israel is a Zionist Hebrew clusterfuck. Israelis will become untouchable in Europe. Nobody will take any refugees either. Pottery Barn rules to apply.

  • 'Today is one of the most tragic days in the history of the Jewish people': one American Jew's response to the Gaza massacre
    • "ok, just personally speaking, as a citizen of the U.S. i don’t experience jews running my life from top to bottom. i find that thought to be fundamentally extremist and paranoid.

      Forget about Jews. What do you know about who pulls the strings in the US?

      Who is preventing heathcare from being reformed? About one in every 6 dollars spent in the US goes on healthcare. this means one sixth of American life is sickness and is insane.
      Who is behind the tax cuts? For 40% of Americans the rise in gas prices has cancelled out the tax benefit. Who got most of the tax benefit?
      Who is behind the NRA? School shootings continue.
      Who at the Fed and on Wall St are fighting to prevent the Financial system being reformed?
      Who owns the tech companies who harvest your data and sell it on to commercial entities in order to gain massive revenues ?

      After this you can drill down by religion if you want.

    • I think it is going to be a lot harder than Howard thinks. Israel was manufactured and so was Israeli identity. Israeli identity is based on "a land without a people" . Gaza is so visceral in Israel because the people in Gaza contradict the essence of Israeli identity. By acknowledging the Palestinian narrative Israelis destroy their own identity.
      Eitan Bronstein of Zochrot can testify to this. Israelis would rather die than accept the Nakba.

    • Jim Crowstein. Yossi Israeli needs a bit of relief so Palestinians get shot dead.

  • Dystopia: The Live Feed
  • Stars — They’re Just Like Us: Celebs outraged over Gaza are speaking out
    • Stephen, as for the Holocaust, it was minor. The Danes were admirable but nobody saved the Jews of Poland. Gush Shalom are decent but nobody takes them seriously. Israel is wall to wall groupthink.

    • Ebro: “Sometimes it isn’t just as easy as pick a side. Sometimes the place that you live, or the thing that you love is just wrong. Straight up, and being evil. ”

      Reminded me of something Joe Sacco said about Gaza. "I find it very difficult to be objective when there is a clear case of a people being oppressed. I'm not sure what objective means in a situation like that. I would rather be honest about vwhat''s going on "

      In a lot of Israeli discussion about the Holocaust people wonder why onlookers did nothing. Why do Israelis today do nothing ?

  • Nikki Haley blames Iran, Hamas for deaths of Palestinian protesters, as UN officials call to investigate Israel
    • Haley reminds me of right wing fruitcakes around the time of the Iraq war. She has the same lunatic determination to create reality via the force of her words. She is cut from the same cloth as Danon. Trump will probably lead the US into another catastrophe.
      Israelis are currently euphoric but they have no idea of the risks that charlatans like Trump bring to geopolitics.

    • Haley is a fucking disgrace. The GOP is dying and she is a symptom. You can imagine her directing a lynching in South Carolina back in the day.

    • At the Hague it will be

  • London stages multiple protests in solidarity with Palestine
    • Mooser

      What really gets Israel in the gonads is not younger US Jews asking questions. It's not polarisation in the Pew numbers. Its not BDS . Its not the UK Labour party. Its not Danish hockey teams. Its not Glasgow Celtic fans. Its not that hasbara is dead. It's everything added up.

  • Today's lead 'NY Times' article on the Gaza massacre is a model of dishonesty
    • The NYT will eventually change under public pressure. Zionism is not sustainable.

      Imagine 58 Jews murdered in one day. Imagine the outrage.

  • My March of Return
    • What a fantastic piece of writing, wallahi.
      The politics are a struggle between 2 peoples. Israel's strength is in the mind. Is it real ? Palestine is still there beneath the concrete .
      Israel pushed the Palestinians out of sight. But they are still there. And no defeat is permanent. Hegemony is never settled.

  • Live Blog: Protests continue as Palestinians begin holding funerals for 61 killed in Gaza

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