"She said his golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend, and said about him and other activists: "they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites"
Interesting comment because the Nazis had a perception of what Jews looked like also. There were plenty of images to go around in Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda newspaper. So what we have here is just opposite sides of the same disgusting coin.
There were many people who were forced to serve during the Nazi regime who did not support it. But the major difference is that those who would oppose it would certainly go to their deaths as compared to those who refuse to serve in Israel and go to jail for a few months. This is not to underestimate anyone who is noble enough to stand up for their convictions in the face of overwhelming opposition, but death is a finality.
The criticisms should not be against Gunter Grass because he once served in the Waffen SS, but the condemnations reserved for those who have the utmost audacity to walk in the same footsteps and at the same time dare to say "I accuse." The term "anti-semitism" has also been so misused to silence dissent, and it is incorrectly applied (although a coined term) beccause all Jews are not semites, and all semites are not Jews...but Arabs are considered semitic...so perhaps it's time that the term anti-semitism should be re-applied.
Therefore, I accuse Israel of being anti-semitic in more ways than I could put down here.
Illegal under Israeli law? That would depend on how Israel twists the law to make it legal. There is no equlity in Israel amongst all its citizens so the word "legal" is absolutely meaningless. The very "Law of Return" in Israel is based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws that were used to deprive anyone of whom Germany deemed "Jewish" their rights except here, it gives Jews (or rather who Israel defines as Jews) the privileges and deprives others of their rights.
When you have Rabbis who are employed by the municipality and can make public statements and gather petitions not to rent to "gentiles," this specifically means other than :"Jewish." It appears the process of bringing charges against any of these people is a rather slow one, if it happens, and I doubt if they've been fired from their jobs. That would not even happen in Germany today, and if it did, there would be an uproar heard throughout the world. If a man has to fight over eleven years with two trials to buy a piece of property in a community obviously for Jews only because he is not a Jew, then legal/illegal are meaningless.
I'm not sure if the link I left to this article will be able to be viewed by everyone as in order to read it its entirety, you have to resgister with the publication, so I've just copied and pasted it here to be sure. Why Gioura thinks he's in a position to determine what is "moral" is beyond me.
"But if you're sure you've got the right guy, and you have no other viable options, fire away. "
License to Kill
When I advised the Israel Defense Forces, here's how we decided if targeted kills were legal -- or not.
BY AMOS N. GUIORA | JULY 13, 2009
Washington is abuzz over a recent report in the Wall Street Journal saying that former U.S. President George W. Bush had authorized the "capture or kill al Qaeda operatives," and that "the CIA also examined the subject of targeted assassinations of al Qaeda leaders," though it's not clear if the two initiatives are related.
More...
The revelations are sure to set off a renewed debate in the United States over the legality, utility, and morality of killing terrorists. I know a few things about this topic, because between 1994 and 1997, I advised Israel Defense Forces' (IDF) commanders regarding targeted killings as the IDF legal advisor to the commander of the Gaza Strip. To be clear: the decision to strike was the commander's. As the legal advisor, I provided just that: legal advice.
So, here's my legal advice for the United States as the Washington debate heats up: Counterterrorism, in civil democratic regimes, must be rooted in the rule of law, morality in armed conflict, and an analysis of policy effectiveness. There can be no "ifs, ands, or buts."
Targeted killings are indeed legal, under certain conditions. The decision to use targeted killing of terrorists is based on an expansive articulation of the concept of pre-emptive self defense, intelligence information, and an analysis regarding policy effectiveness. According to Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, a nation state can respond to an armed attack. Targeted killing, however, is somewhat different because the state acts before the attack occurs. In addition to self-defense principles, the four critical principles of international law -- alternatives, military necessity, proportionality, and collateral damage -- are critical to the decision-maker's analysis.
The basis for the attack is intelligence information that meets a four part test: Is it reliable, credible, valid, and viable? Given the stakes, corroborated information is significantly preferable to information that comes from a single source.
Israel instituted its targeted killing policy in large part in response to Palestinian suicide-bombing attacks. But it's not just the bombers themselves that are a threat. Four actors -- the bomber, the planner, the driver/logistics person, and the financier -- form the basis of the suicide bombing infrastructure. Determining which of the four is a legitimate target, and when, is the critical question decision-makers face. As not all four are legitimate targets at all times, the commander is limited against whom he can act; that reality reflects the limits of self-defense.
This rearticulation of expansive self-defense is insufficient on its own, however, because the decision to authorize the "hit" is not made in a vacuum. Implementing the four international law principles referenced above requires the commander to ascertain that the "hit" is essential to national security and therefore proportional to the risk the individual presents. Furthermore, the commander must determine that any alternatives, such as capturing and detaining the individual, are not operationally possible. The commander must also seek to minimize the collateral damage -- harm to innocent civilians -- that is all but inevitable in such attacks.
When asked by a particular commander to authorize a targeted killing, I would ask the following factual questions:
»Who is the source?
»How reliable is the source?
»How timely is the information?
»What is the relationship between the source and the potential target?
»How precise is the information? (I was once told, for example, "he is wearing a blue shirt and blue jeans," but it was nighttime and the commander had night-vision equipment)
»When was the last time the unit conducted a nighttime ambush?
»How confident was the commander in his unit's capabilities?
»Did the commander receive the intelligence directly from the intelligence community and had he discussed the issue with a case officer?
Although I have advocated the effectiveness of targeted killings from an operational counterterrorism perspective and supported its legality as an expansive articulation of self-defense, in the case of the blue jeans I did not authorize the requested attack. The information about the individual unequivocally indicated that the danger posed to Israeli national security was palpable. I was also convinced that detaining him was operationally unfeasible. However -- and this is the core of the issue -- I was not convinced that the individual in the commander's scope was the right man.
Aggressive operational counterterrorism is lawful, but that is not enough. It must also be effective and moral. Understanding and implementing the limits of power is an essential aspect of aggressive self-defense; uncertainty is a fact of life in the counterterrorism business. Precisely for that reason, the four pillars of counterterrorism must include the applicable law, but also morality, policy effectiveness, and careful and cautious operational decisions.
Targeted killings decisions are among the most complicated and complex aspects of operational counterterrorism. The decision-maker literally faces an overwhelming amount of information. Before authorizing and firing, the commander must ascertain who the target is; otherwise, the policy is illegal, ineffective, and immoral. But if you're sure you've got the right guy, and you have no other viable options, fire away. The nation's safety may depend on it
I'vw just sent a letter to Editor informing them that Mr. Giuora is the very same person who wrote an article in 2009 entitled "License to Kill" that had appeared in the Foreign Policy Journal. He was a "legal" adviser to the IDF between 1994 to 1997, and his legal advice was that target assassinations were legal even if they did cause harm to innocent civilians. Of course, this is greatly disputed by international law, and surely who has more of a right than those who live as the oppressed under such powers to have that license
I will leave the link to the article, and I think a better title for Mr. Giuora is "Illegal" Advisor.
What I don't understand is the "legal stratagems" referred to that Israel allegedly uses. What is "legal" in any strategy Israel has used or uses other than what it considers the rule of law.
Phil, it goes beyond words to say that thankfully, there are human beings such as yourself who want to teach people about the Palestinian Nakba which has intentionally been buried away. Perhaps because it may be that painful to some Palestinians that they do say "it is over." No matter what happens, it will never be over until the Palestinians exercise their inalienable right of return which they suffered because of someone else's catastrophe which the world is expected to recognize as never being over.
There's just one thing that I have a criticism about in your article, which is very, very rare for me. You mention "I thought their faces looked Jewish.:"
We all know know that Jews are people of many nationalties, races, ethnicities, etc., and one can convert to becoming Jewish.
I remember about ten years ago while participating in a rally in New York City for Palestine, an African American man came over to me and told me that he was Jewish and wanted to know what the demonstration was all about He expected me to be surprised that he was Jewish, which I was not. I told him the same thing I am saying to you and that people have a great misconception about this.
Well, what exactly is "normal."? Normal usually applies to certain standards or behavior that most of a population conforms to. First you need to know what are the "norms" in Israel, and that will tell you exactly what is THEIR "normal."
Well, reading the article almost sounds like satire, but even who would make satire over something so disastrous. While Israel tries to exploit to the world the murder of a family in Itamar to advance its own political agenda, it rears its ugly head up and shows its complete indifference to humanity.
As the YNET article stated.."Israelis love sushi, and a shortage of some of its ingredients may have an effect on many restaurants." (How tragic.)
"We feel their pain." (Ahh yes, but the loss of sushi is so much more painful).
It was an excellent article, but I need to make one very important criticism about mentioning the ADL as one of the Jewish groups who have spoken out. Quoting the statemet on the ADL website:
Robert G. Sugarman, ADL National Chair and Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director issued the following statement:
"Homegrown Muslim extremists pose a real threat to the United States, but the issue is one that may be difficult to explore seriously in a hearing that has engendered an unfortunate atmosphere of blame and suspicion of the broader American Muslim community. We need to be careful not to single out an entire community for special scrutiny or suspicion. "
What kind of double-talk is this? Are Muslim "extremists" the only home-grown real threat to America? Why not just say "extremists" which encompasses anyone of any color, ethnicity or faith? Certainly there have beem enough acts of terorism in this country not carried out by Muslims.
What I find is that someone like Abe Foxman is an extremist for actually supporting in a sense what Peter King is doing (another extremist) and using methods which still demonize Muslims and does create fear and hatred in this country because it is all about Israel.
I have left a comment on the author's website, asking him to remove the ADL fom his article because it defeats the pupose of his article, and adds to the scape-goating.
While Abe Foxman has made no effort to stand up and oppose King's witch-hunt, he had no problem whatsoever in condemning none other than Charlie Sheen on the ADL website for alleged "anti-semitic" comments because Sheen had merely used the real name of his producer when referring to him which is a "Jewish" name. It just shows the double standards and hypocrisy that the ADL represents, and too much of what we generally see in the United States of how hatred and racism is so opposed, yet we know how to dish it out! I really needed my barf bag for this one.
"By invoking television producer Chuck Lorre's Jewish name in the context of an angry tirade against him, Charlie Sheen left the impression that another reason for his dislike of Mr. Lorre is his Jewishness," said Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman. "This fact has no relevance to Mr. Sheen's complaint or disagreement, and his words are at best bizarre, and at worst, borderline anti-Semitism."
You perceive this as an "attack" on MECA, which is not the case, I had already stated that they've done very worthy things. While I am well aware that this oganization has been unfairly attacked in the past, just because someone voices criticism on a particular issue does not mean that was an overall "attack."
I think it's you who has missed the point here., It was MECA who originally mentioned 750,000 Palestinian refugees forced from their lands and homes in 1948. I am speaking about Palestinian refugee childen NOW, at present,rotting away in refugee camps.
You ask me what I'n doing? I do as much as I can within my power but what exactly is the point here. Does a person have to meet a certain criteria before he/she has the right to say somethng?
Jeff, the children of 1948 have aleady grown into adulthood and many of them are already gone from this earth, and generations have passed. But as I write this now, I speak of the refugee children who are languishing away NOW,and where are their rights .
The one issue that joins everyone together here is that these 400 children are not being deported because they're illegal or their parents came as migrant workers, but because none of them meet the racist criteria of who Israel defines as Jewish which is the very reason why Palestinian children will go on rotting away in their refugee camps.
I should also make mention that "Strangers No More" was shown in the Musuem of (In)tolerance in California who obviously felt some compassion for these children, yet on their website under the Top 10 Anti-Israeli lies for 2010...they state:
"it is a simple fact that while the State of Israel is prepared to recognize all Arab States, secular or Muslim, these states adamantly refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish State and demand “the right of return” of five million so-called Palestinian “refugees” – a sure guarantee for Israel’s demise"
That's what it's all about....that is the root of eveything ....and to omit the Palestinian children and not to make mention of them is unacceptable because they are most certainly part of this That is my personal opinion.
My heart goes out to all children who become innocent victims of circumtances for which they have no control however, what I find truly heartbreaking is the absence of any focus at all on the Palestinian children who have had to languish away in refugee camps because their families were ethnically cleaned from their native land, and although have the inalienable right of return, are prevented from doing so. While MECA may have mentioned the 750,000 Palestinians expelled in 1948, where is the focus on those children, the descendants of those refuguees.who have been deprived of their childhoods True MECA has been engaged in worthy projects in the past, but it has failed here. Surely there are at least 400 Palestinian children and their families denied their right of return for which they have longed for. They did not leave to seek work in other lands as was the parents of the 400 children here who voluntarily left thei native lands. Just mentioning that 750,000 Palestinians were exepelled in 1948 leaves a very wide gap of what happened from that point until now. How about those children and their just rights?
I would also add to the list that Israel's Law of Return giving privileged rights to Jews is based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws which had deprived Jews of their rights, all based on racist criteria defining who is a Jew. Would anyone dare to say that the Nuremberg Laws were not racist??
Also, there is no such thing as an "Israeli" nationality but a multitude of nationalities that make up the citizens of Israel and how Israel defines them. One of those nationalities is Jewish (yes Jewish is a nationality according to Israel). In other words, someone who meets the racist criteria of who Israel defines as Jewish and lives in Brooklyn has more rights than anyone who is already a citizen of Israel but who happens to be non-Jewish which refers mostly to the Arab population.
The ID cards by the way are coded to differentiate Jews from everyone else regardless of whether they are Muslims or not.
“So you’re ignorant. Holocaust museums are not political tools. You’ve absolutely no credibility to speak about them if you’ve never been to one.”
Without resorting to the same use of your language, this is an incredible statement, which essentially means that if anyone was not present during the Holocaust or referring to any time in history, then they have no credibility to speak about it
I don’t have to go to any Holocaust museum to be educated about what took place, but I think you need to do some serious research.
Beginning with the Roma Gypsies, they were not even a part of the U.S. Holocaust Museum until the 1990’s because Elie Wiesel objected to their inclusion, and it was not until he actually resigned from his position that one Gypsy was permitted to be on its 65-member staff. This is the same Elie Wiesel who said, after the Roma Gypsy expulsion from France just a few months ago that although it is a terrible thing, it should not be compared to the “Jewish case.” So there we have another example of the Holocaust being treated like it was a competition while Wiesel also remains silent on the crimes carried out against the Palestinians.
Most of these museums are supposed to serve as a memorial and educational tool just as the one in Washington which states that it inspires citizens and leaders worldwide to confront hatred, promote human dignity and prevent genocide. The only thing that it has inspired is to be indifferent to hatred and promote human suffering as long as the perpetrator happens to be Israel. I do not see any great lesson in that, except one of repugnant hypocrisy. There are all different ways to destroy a people, and that is why Genocide Laws were created. Israel is doing a phenomonal job on its own genocidal policies towards the Palestinians under the guise of their security and seeking "peace."
Another point of interest is that in the Museum itself, and no doubt in all museums, is reference to the Nazi Nuremberg Laws of 1935 which shows the racist criteria of how Jews were defined and which robbed them of their rights and citizenship. That same racist criteria is used by Israel, (based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws) to give whomever meets the racist criteria of who is Jewish the supreme rights and deprives others of their rights. That also applies to Jews who are not citizens of Israel but anywhere throughout the world who meet that obnoxious criteria. So basically, Israel carries out the same functions as did the Nazis as regards defining who Jews are, marriage laws, and even identity cards which clearly shows who is Jewish and who is not.
In all good conscience and ethics, how does anyone dare even make reference to those laws in those museums when they are virtually the same laws that are used in Israel to make it a Jewish supremacy and deprive others of their rights. You cannot support one and denounce the other when they are two sides of the same coin.
“So you’ve have been happy with more dead Jews. That’s typical of a person who refuses to visit a Holocaust museum.”
I think it was Ben Gurion who would have been happy with more dead Jews as well as others with their sickening Zionist ideology as long as most of them made their way to Palestine.
Tree said:
"And the Zionist Agencies utilized selective immigration there, rejecting those Jews it did not want. In other words, if the Jewish Agency or the screening groups thought you might end up being a burden to the Yishuv, or if you didn’t possess a skill they wanted, your application was denied."
This was the Zionist method of who was sent to the left and who was sent to the right.
"It would be curious to know if you’ve ever been to Yad Vashem. It’s clear that you haven’t."
That is one way of evading what I had originally asked, however, I am going to reply to his question.
No I have never been to Yad Vashem, nor have I ever been to Vad Yashem, not have I ever been to any Holocaust Musuem, nor do I intend to go. I do not go to such places that are used for political tools to justif and/or advance the crimes that Israel commits against the Palestinian people, nor do I go such places that are used as some sort of competition to show that no one in this world has suffered as much as Jews or that nothing can be compared to Jewish suffering.
Roma Gypsies also suffered the same fate as European Jews and were in concentration camps simultaneously with Jews, yet they do not have a state of their own and are still persecuted in Europe, and many people are even unaware of their Holocaust (known as The Devouring).n
Whatever the reason anyone wants to give to justify Zionist collaboration with the Nazis in order to bring Jews to Palestine, then the same justifications can be given to the Mufti for not wanting to bring Jews tlo Palestine. And in hindsight, he was absolutely right.
As opposed to a photo of the Mufti, better that this photo be placed in all Holocaust Museums wherever they are located to show how well the lessons are that Jews have learned
I think it's Yonira who needs to check the timeline.
Why are so many people under the impression that things started in 1939? Germany had alread instituted the Nuremberg Laws which stripped Jews of their citizenship in 1935. Along with that was the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor which amongst other things set forth that marraiges between Jews and citizens of Germany or kindred blood were forbidden. (Once again, it always amazes me how one can have to much hatred for something that is truly despicable, yet follow on a similar path while trying to teach lessons to the world).
There was also the Kindertransport which first began by transporting childen to England at the end of 1938. So just using plain logic, do you actually think that the parents of these children would send them off to a foreign land if they felt there was something not ominous coming. The foundation was already set for other things to come.
As regards Ben Gurion and his quote, he did, in fact, state "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second.....He also commented in the wake of the Kristallnacht pogroms that "the human conscience" might bring various countries to open their doors to Jewish refugees from Germany. He saw this as a threat and warned "Zionism is in danger."
(Ahh, how Ben Gurion must have been in his glory when the United States turned away 800 Jewish refugees in 1939 before the outbreak of the war who had tried to escape Germany and were sent back to Europe. )
This Ben Gurion quote comes from Tom Segev's book "The Seventh Million" which I am looking at right now on page 28. Segev leaves a footnote here which states that later on , Ben Gurion's biographer made a great effort to put that statement in another light (for the obvious reasons).
The photo of the Mufti in Yad Vashem is yet another sick example of how the Holocaust is used as a political tool. Shameful enough to even have such a place on land that was ethnically cleansed of most of the indigenous population (and still trying to), but right in the back yard of where Israel's hideous crimes against humanity are carried out which is the norm in Israeli society. The behavior of these youths is not out of the ordinary either.
Even Lieberman started circulating these photos as a reason to build in East Jerusalem.
I would be curious to know if Yad Vashem has any photos or information about Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, or how the Stern Gang offered to fight on the side of the Nazis against the British during WWII. Now that would be a revelation to the world and deserves attention!
The Palestinians paid for crimes that were committed a continent away that they had nothing to do with. They did not invade Europe, but rather it was their land that was invaded, yet Zionists must constantly find ways to demonize the Palestinians so as to justify in some way that they are the enemy while the Palestinians remain the dispossessed, the oppressed, their lives totally devastated,and deprived of even their most basic rights.
There may be photographs with the Mufti "Heiling" Nazi troops, but the reality is that Israel is the one who carries on the "Heil Hitler" mentality as Israel is a racist Jewish supremacy which is why people can and do behave the way they do.
Learn the lessons first before you have the audacity to think you can teach them to others.
As all accounts of Palestinians and/or their families torn from their lands and homes is always so deeply emotional to read, as was Ghassan Kanafani when he wrote about Jaffa: The land of Oranges, this was so incredibly, incredibly sad because of the feelings conveyed by Tala who felt so invisible.
It is Jaffa who has missed you because you are part of your family. It is Jaffa who has always loved you, and has shed so many tears for your grandparents and for all those who were forced to leave. Strangers are not always the people who have no physical presence because the heart and soul makes the strongest connections wherever one may be. My feeling is that you brought some happiness to Jaffa on that day, because in a sense, you brought your grandparents back to the place they so deeply loved and longed for, and because Jaffa has never forgotten them.
If the orange trees could only speak for they have seen so much. Those who truly love a land do not destroy it. And so, Jaffa and all of Palestine will never be the same until Palestine is returned to its rightful owners.
"She said his golden hair made him look like a member of the Hitlerjugend, and said about him and other activists: "they were born anti-Semites and will die anti-Semites"
Interesting comment because the Nazis had a perception of what Jews looked like also. There were plenty of images to go around in Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda newspaper. So what we have here is just opposite sides of the same disgusting coin.
There were many people who were forced to serve during the Nazi regime who did not support it. But the major difference is that those who would oppose it would certainly go to their deaths as compared to those who refuse to serve in Israel and go to jail for a few months. This is not to underestimate anyone who is noble enough to stand up for their convictions in the face of overwhelming opposition, but death is a finality.
The criticisms should not be against Gunter Grass because he once served in the Waffen SS, but the condemnations reserved for those who have the utmost audacity to walk in the same footsteps and at the same time dare to say "I accuse." The term "anti-semitism" has also been so misused to silence dissent, and it is incorrectly applied (although a coined term) beccause all Jews are not semites, and all semites are not Jews...but Arabs are considered semitic...so perhaps it's time that the term anti-semitism should be re-applied.
Therefore, I accuse Israel of being anti-semitic in more ways than I could put down here.
How generous of Israel. Hopefully, they'll give the same notice to Obama before its Mossad assassinates him.
Illegal under Israeli law? That would depend on how Israel twists the law to make it legal. There is no equlity in Israel amongst all its citizens so the word "legal" is absolutely meaningless. The very "Law of Return" in Israel is based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws that were used to deprive anyone of whom Germany deemed "Jewish" their rights except here, it gives Jews (or rather who Israel defines as Jews) the privileges and deprives others of their rights.
When you have Rabbis who are employed by the municipality and can make public statements and gather petitions not to rent to "gentiles," this specifically means other than :"Jewish." It appears the process of bringing charges against any of these people is a rather slow one, if it happens, and I doubt if they've been fired from their jobs. That would not even happen in Germany today, and if it did, there would be an uproar heard throughout the world. If a man has to fight over eleven years with two trials to buy a piece of property in a community obviously for Jews only because he is not a Jew, then legal/illegal are meaningless.
I'm not sure if the link I left to this article will be able to be viewed by everyone as in order to read it its entirety, you have to resgister with the publication, so I've just copied and pasted it here to be sure. Why Gioura thinks he's in a position to determine what is "moral" is beyond me.
"But if you're sure you've got the right guy, and you have no other viable options, fire away. "
License to Kill
When I advised the Israel Defense Forces, here's how we decided if targeted kills were legal -- or not.
BY AMOS N. GUIORA | JULY 13, 2009
Washington is abuzz over a recent report in the Wall Street Journal saying that former U.S. President George W. Bush had authorized the "capture or kill al Qaeda operatives," and that "the CIA also examined the subject of targeted assassinations of al Qaeda leaders," though it's not clear if the two initiatives are related.
More...
The revelations are sure to set off a renewed debate in the United States over the legality, utility, and morality of killing terrorists. I know a few things about this topic, because between 1994 and 1997, I advised Israel Defense Forces' (IDF) commanders regarding targeted killings as the IDF legal advisor to the commander of the Gaza Strip. To be clear: the decision to strike was the commander's. As the legal advisor, I provided just that: legal advice.
So, here's my legal advice for the United States as the Washington debate heats up: Counterterrorism, in civil democratic regimes, must be rooted in the rule of law, morality in armed conflict, and an analysis of policy effectiveness. There can be no "ifs, ands, or buts."
Targeted killings are indeed legal, under certain conditions. The decision to use targeted killing of terrorists is based on an expansive articulation of the concept of pre-emptive self defense, intelligence information, and an analysis regarding policy effectiveness. According to Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, a nation state can respond to an armed attack. Targeted killing, however, is somewhat different because the state acts before the attack occurs. In addition to self-defense principles, the four critical principles of international law -- alternatives, military necessity, proportionality, and collateral damage -- are critical to the decision-maker's analysis.
The basis for the attack is intelligence information that meets a four part test: Is it reliable, credible, valid, and viable? Given the stakes, corroborated information is significantly preferable to information that comes from a single source.
Israel instituted its targeted killing policy in large part in response to Palestinian suicide-bombing attacks. But it's not just the bombers themselves that are a threat. Four actors -- the bomber, the planner, the driver/logistics person, and the financier -- form the basis of the suicide bombing infrastructure. Determining which of the four is a legitimate target, and when, is the critical question decision-makers face. As not all four are legitimate targets at all times, the commander is limited against whom he can act; that reality reflects the limits of self-defense.
This rearticulation of expansive self-defense is insufficient on its own, however, because the decision to authorize the "hit" is not made in a vacuum. Implementing the four international law principles referenced above requires the commander to ascertain that the "hit" is essential to national security and therefore proportional to the risk the individual presents. Furthermore, the commander must determine that any alternatives, such as capturing and detaining the individual, are not operationally possible. The commander must also seek to minimize the collateral damage -- harm to innocent civilians -- that is all but inevitable in such attacks.
When asked by a particular commander to authorize a targeted killing, I would ask the following factual questions:
»Who is the source?
»How reliable is the source?
»How timely is the information?
»What is the relationship between the source and the potential target?
»How precise is the information? (I was once told, for example, "he is wearing a blue shirt and blue jeans," but it was nighttime and the commander had night-vision equipment)
»When was the last time the unit conducted a nighttime ambush?
»How confident was the commander in his unit's capabilities?
»Did the commander receive the intelligence directly from the intelligence community and had he discussed the issue with a case officer?
Although I have advocated the effectiveness of targeted killings from an operational counterterrorism perspective and supported its legality as an expansive articulation of self-defense, in the case of the blue jeans I did not authorize the requested attack. The information about the individual unequivocally indicated that the danger posed to Israeli national security was palpable. I was also convinced that detaining him was operationally unfeasible. However -- and this is the core of the issue -- I was not convinced that the individual in the commander's scope was the right man.
Aggressive operational counterterrorism is lawful, but that is not enough. It must also be effective and moral. Understanding and implementing the limits of power is an essential aspect of aggressive self-defense; uncertainty is a fact of life in the counterterrorism business. Precisely for that reason, the four pillars of counterterrorism must include the applicable law, but also morality, policy effectiveness, and careful and cautious operational decisions.
Targeted killings decisions are among the most complicated and complex aspects of operational counterterrorism. The decision-maker literally faces an overwhelming amount of information. Before authorizing and firing, the commander must ascertain who the target is; otherwise, the policy is illegal, ineffective, and immoral. But if you're sure you've got the right guy, and you have no other viable options, fire away. The nation's safety may depend on it
I'vw just sent a letter to Editor informing them that Mr. Giuora is the very same person who wrote an article in 2009 entitled "License to Kill" that had appeared in the Foreign Policy Journal. He was a "legal" adviser to the IDF between 1994 to 1997, and his legal advice was that target assassinations were legal even if they did cause harm to innocent civilians. Of course, this is greatly disputed by international law, and surely who has more of a right than those who live as the oppressed under such powers to have that license
I will leave the link to the article, and I think a better title for Mr. Giuora is "Illegal" Advisor.
link to foreignpolicy.com
Good going Lucas! Your family must be proud of you for bringing such a caring human being into this world.
What I don't understand is the "legal stratagems" referred to that Israel allegedly uses. What is "legal" in any strategy Israel has used or uses other than what it considers the rule of law.
Phil, it goes beyond words to say that thankfully, there are human beings such as yourself who want to teach people about the Palestinian Nakba which has intentionally been buried away. Perhaps because it may be that painful to some Palestinians that they do say "it is over." No matter what happens, it will never be over until the Palestinians exercise their inalienable right of return which they suffered because of someone else's catastrophe which the world is expected to recognize as never being over.
There's just one thing that I have a criticism about in your article, which is very, very rare for me. You mention "I thought their faces looked Jewish.:"
We all know know that Jews are people of many nationalties, races, ethnicities, etc., and one can convert to becoming Jewish.
I remember about ten years ago while participating in a rally in New York City for Palestine, an African American man came over to me and told me that he was Jewish and wanted to know what the demonstration was all about He expected me to be surprised that he was Jewish, which I was not. I told him the same thing I am saying to you and that people have a great misconception about this.
So please Phil, do not add to that misconception.
Thank you.
Well, what exactly is "normal."? Normal usually applies to certain standards or behavior that most of a population conforms to. First you need to know what are the "norms" in Israel, and that will tell you exactly what is THEIR "normal."
Well, reading the article almost sounds like satire, but even who would make satire over something so disastrous. While Israel tries to exploit to the world the murder of a family in Itamar to advance its own political agenda, it rears its ugly head up and shows its complete indifference to humanity.
As the YNET article stated.."Israelis love sushi, and a shortage of some of its ingredients may have an effect on many restaurants." (How tragic.)
"We feel their pain." (Ahh yes, but the loss of sushi is so much more painful).
It was an excellent article, but I need to make one very important criticism about mentioning the ADL as one of the Jewish groups who have spoken out. Quoting the statemet on the ADL website:
Robert G. Sugarman, ADL National Chair and Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director issued the following statement:
"Homegrown Muslim extremists pose a real threat to the United States, but the issue is one that may be difficult to explore seriously in a hearing that has engendered an unfortunate atmosphere of blame and suspicion of the broader American Muslim community. We need to be careful not to single out an entire community for special scrutiny or suspicion. "
What kind of double-talk is this? Are Muslim "extremists" the only home-grown real threat to America? Why not just say "extremists" which encompasses anyone of any color, ethnicity or faith? Certainly there have beem enough acts of terorism in this country not carried out by Muslims.
What I find is that someone like Abe Foxman is an extremist for actually supporting in a sense what Peter King is doing (another extremist) and using methods which still demonize Muslims and does create fear and hatred in this country because it is all about Israel.
I have left a comment on the author's website, asking him to remove the ADL fom his article because it defeats the pupose of his article, and adds to the scape-goating.
While Abe Foxman has made no effort to stand up and oppose King's witch-hunt, he had no problem whatsoever in condemning none other than Charlie Sheen on the ADL website for alleged "anti-semitic" comments because Sheen had merely used the real name of his producer when referring to him which is a "Jewish" name. It just shows the double standards and hypocrisy that the ADL represents, and too much of what we generally see in the United States of how hatred and racism is so opposed, yet we know how to dish it out! I really needed my barf bag for this one.
"By invoking television producer Chuck Lorre's Jewish name in the context of an angry tirade against him, Charlie Sheen left the impression that another reason for his dislike of Mr. Lorre is his Jewishness," said Anti-Defamation League national director Abraham Foxman. "This fact has no relevance to Mr. Sheen's complaint or disagreement, and his words are at best bizarre, and at worst, borderline anti-Semitism."
You perceive this as an "attack" on MECA, which is not the case, I had already stated that they've done very worthy things. While I am well aware that this oganization has been unfairly attacked in the past, just because someone voices criticism on a particular issue does not mean that was an overall "attack."
I think it's you who has missed the point here., It was MECA who originally mentioned 750,000 Palestinian refugees forced from their lands and homes in 1948. I am speaking about Palestinian refugee childen NOW, at present,rotting away in refugee camps.
You ask me what I'n doing? I do as much as I can within my power but what exactly is the point here. Does a person have to meet a certain criteria before he/she has the right to say somethng?
Jeff, the children of 1948 have aleady grown into adulthood and many of them are already gone from this earth, and generations have passed. But as I write this now, I speak of the refugee children who are languishing away NOW,and where are their rights .
The one issue that joins everyone together here is that these 400 children are not being deported because they're illegal or their parents came as migrant workers, but because none of them meet the racist criteria of who Israel defines as Jewish which is the very reason why Palestinian children will go on rotting away in their refugee camps.
I should also make mention that "Strangers No More" was shown in the Musuem of (In)tolerance in California who obviously felt some compassion for these children, yet on their website under the Top 10 Anti-Israeli lies for 2010...they state:
"it is a simple fact that while the State of Israel is prepared to recognize all Arab States, secular or Muslim, these states adamantly refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish State and demand “the right of return” of five million so-called Palestinian “refugees” – a sure guarantee for Israel’s demise"
That's what it's all about....that is the root of eveything ....and to omit the Palestinian children and not to make mention of them is unacceptable because they are most certainly part of this That is my personal opinion.
My heart goes out to all children who become innocent victims of circumtances for which they have no control however, what I find truly heartbreaking is the absence of any focus at all on the Palestinian children who have had to languish away in refugee camps because their families were ethnically cleaned from their native land, and although have the inalienable right of return, are prevented from doing so. While MECA may have mentioned the 750,000 Palestinians expelled in 1948, where is the focus on those children, the descendants of those refuguees.who have been deprived of their childhoods True MECA has been engaged in worthy projects in the past, but it has failed here. Surely there are at least 400 Palestinian children and their families denied their right of return for which they have longed for. They did not leave to seek work in other lands as was the parents of the 400 children here who voluntarily left thei native lands. Just mentioning that 750,000 Palestinians were exepelled in 1948 leaves a very wide gap of what happened from that point until now. How about those children and their just rights?
I would also add to the list that Israel's Law of Return giving privileged rights to Jews is based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws which had deprived Jews of their rights, all based on racist criteria defining who is a Jew. Would anyone dare to say that the Nuremberg Laws were not racist??
Also, there is no such thing as an "Israeli" nationality but a multitude of nationalities that make up the citizens of Israel and how Israel defines them. One of those nationalities is Jewish (yes Jewish is a nationality according to Israel). In other words, someone who meets the racist criteria of who Israel defines as Jewish and lives in Brooklyn has more rights than anyone who is already a citizen of Israel but who happens to be non-Jewish which refers mostly to the Arab population.
The ID cards by the way are coded to differentiate Jews from everyone else regardless of whether they are Muslims or not.
“So you’re ignorant. Holocaust museums are not political tools. You’ve absolutely no credibility to speak about them if you’ve never been to one.”
Without resorting to the same use of your language, this is an incredible statement, which essentially means that if anyone was not present during the Holocaust or referring to any time in history, then they have no credibility to speak about it
I don’t have to go to any Holocaust museum to be educated about what took place, but I think you need to do some serious research.
Beginning with the Roma Gypsies, they were not even a part of the U.S. Holocaust Museum until the 1990’s because Elie Wiesel objected to their inclusion, and it was not until he actually resigned from his position that one Gypsy was permitted to be on its 65-member staff. This is the same Elie Wiesel who said, after the Roma Gypsy expulsion from France just a few months ago that although it is a terrible thing, it should not be compared to the “Jewish case.” So there we have another example of the Holocaust being treated like it was a competition while Wiesel also remains silent on the crimes carried out against the Palestinians.
Most of these museums are supposed to serve as a memorial and educational tool just as the one in Washington which states that it inspires citizens and leaders worldwide to confront hatred, promote human dignity and prevent genocide. The only thing that it has inspired is to be indifferent to hatred and promote human suffering as long as the perpetrator happens to be Israel. I do not see any great lesson in that, except one of repugnant hypocrisy. There are all different ways to destroy a people, and that is why Genocide Laws were created. Israel is doing a phenomonal job on its own genocidal policies towards the Palestinians under the guise of their security and seeking "peace."
Another point of interest is that in the Museum itself, and no doubt in all museums, is reference to the Nazi Nuremberg Laws of 1935 which shows the racist criteria of how Jews were defined and which robbed them of their rights and citizenship. That same racist criteria is used by Israel, (based on the Nazi Nuremberg Laws) to give whomever meets the racist criteria of who is Jewish the supreme rights and deprives others of their rights. That also applies to Jews who are not citizens of Israel but anywhere throughout the world who meet that obnoxious criteria. So basically, Israel carries out the same functions as did the Nazis as regards defining who Jews are, marriage laws, and even identity cards which clearly shows who is Jewish and who is not.
In all good conscience and ethics, how does anyone dare even make reference to those laws in those museums when they are virtually the same laws that are used in Israel to make it a Jewish supremacy and deprive others of their rights. You cannot support one and denounce the other when they are two sides of the same coin.
“So you’ve have been happy with more dead Jews. That’s typical of a person who refuses to visit a Holocaust museum.”
I think it was Ben Gurion who would have been happy with more dead Jews as well as others with their sickening Zionist ideology as long as most of them made their way to Palestine.
Tree said:
"And the Zionist Agencies utilized selective immigration there, rejecting those Jews it did not want. In other words, if the Jewish Agency or the screening groups thought you might end up being a burden to the Yishuv, or if you didn’t possess a skill they wanted, your application was denied."
This was the Zionist method of who was sent to the left and who was sent to the right.
Hopfmi asked me:
"It would be curious to know if you’ve ever been to Yad Vashem. It’s clear that you haven’t."
That is one way of evading what I had originally asked, however, I am going to reply to his question.
No I have never been to Yad Vashem, nor have I ever been to Vad Yashem, not have I ever been to any Holocaust Musuem, nor do I intend to go. I do not go to such places that are used for political tools to justif and/or advance the crimes that Israel commits against the Palestinian people, nor do I go such places that are used as some sort of competition to show that no one in this world has suffered as much as Jews or that nothing can be compared to Jewish suffering.
Roma Gypsies also suffered the same fate as European Jews and were in concentration camps simultaneously with Jews, yet they do not have a state of their own and are still persecuted in Europe, and many people are even unaware of their Holocaust (known as The Devouring).n
Whatever the reason anyone wants to give to justify Zionist collaboration with the Nazis in order to bring Jews to Palestine, then the same justifications can be given to the Mufti for not wanting to bring Jews tlo Palestine. And in hindsight, he was absolutely right.
As opposed to a photo of the Mufti, better that this photo be placed in all Holocaust Museums wherever they are located to show how well the lessons are that Jews have learned
link to inminds.com
I think it's Yonira who needs to check the timeline.
Why are so many people under the impression that things started in 1939? Germany had alread instituted the Nuremberg Laws which stripped Jews of their citizenship in 1935. Along with that was the Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor which amongst other things set forth that marraiges between Jews and citizens of Germany or kindred blood were forbidden. (Once again, it always amazes me how one can have to much hatred for something that is truly despicable, yet follow on a similar path while trying to teach lessons to the world).
There was also the Kindertransport which first began by transporting childen to England at the end of 1938. So just using plain logic, do you actually think that the parents of these children would send them off to a foreign land if they felt there was something not ominous coming. The foundation was already set for other things to come.
As regards Ben Gurion and his quote, he did, in fact, state "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second.....He also commented in the wake of the Kristallnacht pogroms that "the human conscience" might bring various countries to open their doors to Jewish refugees from Germany. He saw this as a threat and warned "Zionism is in danger."
(Ahh, how Ben Gurion must have been in his glory when the United States turned away 800 Jewish refugees in 1939 before the outbreak of the war who had tried to escape Germany and were sent back to Europe. )
This Ben Gurion quote comes from Tom Segev's book "The Seventh Million" which I am looking at right now on page 28. Segev leaves a footnote here which states that later on , Ben Gurion's biographer made a great effort to put that statement in another light (for the obvious reasons).
The photo of the Mufti in Yad Vashem is yet another sick example of how the Holocaust is used as a political tool. Shameful enough to even have such a place on land that was ethnically cleansed of most of the indigenous population (and still trying to), but right in the back yard of where Israel's hideous crimes against humanity are carried out which is the norm in Israeli society. The behavior of these youths is not out of the ordinary either.
Even Lieberman started circulating these photos as a reason to build in East Jerusalem.
link to haaretz.com
I would be curious to know if Yad Vashem has any photos or information about Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, or how the Stern Gang offered to fight on the side of the Nazis against the British during WWII. Now that would be a revelation to the world and deserves attention!
The Palestinians paid for crimes that were committed a continent away that they had nothing to do with. They did not invade Europe, but rather it was their land that was invaded, yet Zionists must constantly find ways to demonize the Palestinians so as to justify in some way that they are the enemy while the Palestinians remain the dispossessed, the oppressed, their lives totally devastated,and deprived of even their most basic rights.
There may be photographs with the Mufti "Heiling" Nazi troops, but the reality is that Israel is the one who carries on the "Heil Hitler" mentality as Israel is a racist Jewish supremacy which is why people can and do behave the way they do.
Learn the lessons first before you have the audacity to think you can teach them to others.
As all accounts of Palestinians and/or their families torn from their lands and homes is always so deeply emotional to read, as was Ghassan Kanafani when he wrote about Jaffa: The land of Oranges, this was so incredibly, incredibly sad because of the feelings conveyed by Tala who felt so invisible.
It is Jaffa who has missed you because you are part of your family. It is Jaffa who has always loved you, and has shed so many tears for your grandparents and for all those who were forced to leave. Strangers are not always the people who have no physical presence because the heart and soul makes the strongest connections wherever one may be. My feeling is that you brought some happiness to Jaffa on that day, because in a sense, you brought your grandparents back to the place they so deeply loved and longed for, and because Jaffa has never forgotten them.
If the orange trees could only speak for they have seen so much. Those who truly love a land do not destroy it. And so, Jaffa and all of Palestine will never be the same until Palestine is returned to its rightful owners.
link to palestineremembered.com
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