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Total number of comments: 141 (since 2010-06-03 08:08:55)

melka

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  • One possible framework for a single state in Israel/Palestine
    • melka June 17, 2010 at 7:42 am

      It's been posted on Neturei Karta's website, so you must be careful of the source, but this testimony from Naeim Giladi about the way Israel scared the jews from Iraq to get them to immigrate is an interesting read.

    • melka June 16, 2010 at 5:37 am with 1 replies

      I just can't believe what I'm reading.
      - Palestinians are not "immigrants", they are refugees, and as so they have the right to return to their land, written in the International Declartion of the Human Rights. It's as simple as that. You can't make quotas of people returning to their own home from where they've been expelled 60 years ago maximum. Allowing them to come back isn't "fair", it's just the law Israel never follows.
      - I may misunderstand the word "disgorged", but Gaza has not been disgorged from Israel. In fact, Israel is still occupying a large part of Gaza (I'm talking about the Gaza from the partition plan). This territory have not been annexed and from the legal / UN point of view Israel have to leave it. But Hamas is willing to leave it to Israel ('67 borders) : I say take their offer, they are being generous.
      - Annexation of the West Bank (or the Gaza Strip, for that matter) will have to be approved by the international bodies. After so many UNSC resolutions not being followed, I highly doubt Israel taking control of the West Bank will be considered an annexation but rather an invasion.
      - Fatah or Hamas (or any other political power) are representants of the Palestinian people. It's not a question of "power", it's a question of sovereignty. Palestinians want to have sovereignty over their land, so do their representants.
      - "even though there is a chance for human rights for the Palestinians" : the "there is a chance" part is just too tragic for being laughable
      - I'm not leaving in Israel (thank God), but from various reports I have read (sorry I don't have any links right now, I'm sure you'll ask for "proof" so I'll search later), the Israeli society is a lot like the Indian one, with a kind of caste system. I'm not quite sure the Palestinians living in a Greater Israel would fit in as an "equal human being"... but I may be wrong.

    • melka June 16, 2010 at 2:41 am with 3 replies

      One last thing I forgot to write above : I'm 100% sure that the one state solution will in fine bring a civil war for different reasons. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that the UN cannot act during a civil war but can only work to avoid one from happening. Maybe send some troops to protect the civilians. If this was to happen, the ethnic cleansing of one or another of the party will become inevitable.

    • melka June 16, 2010 at 2:30 am with 4 replies

      I don't know who on MW (articles authors and commenters) lives in Israel / Palestine, but I find this kind of piece a bit hypocritical. In the same way Max Taylor's article about non-violence sounds like the result of the mental gesticulations of an intellectual that just thinks 24/7 without taking into account the facts.

      This kind of articles always reminds me of one of the remote lessons I learned when reading about the Milgram experiment : it's always easy to say "I won't do this" or "I'll do that", but when you're facing the problem, you never know how one is gonna react. Unfortunately, most of the time, it's an ugly result.

      Most of the points in this article have already been commented here, so let's just look at what have been signed, agreed, condemned, etc... All that legal shenanigan is quite clear : the only solution that should still be envisioned today is a two-state solution. The defined borders should be the '47 ones (are they are the ones that Israel defined to be it's sovereign territory) but we all know this will never work, so let's settle to the '67 borders. In 2008, Hamas was willing to accept those borders, so let's apply it.

      I just don't understand why we are even envisionning a one-state solution. Believing that this state can be an humanist utopy is just being a fool. I'd also like to see some statistics about the percentage of Palestinians / Israelis wanting/accepting this solution, I bet they are pretty low.

      It's not our job nor our governments' to interfere once again in the matter of defining what type of country these people are gonna live in. The Western world, and particularly the USA, already built enough foreign countries (Venezuela before Chavez or Afghanistan for the USA, many countries in Africa for France, etc...) and we know what the results of such manipulations are. Our job is only to apply what all those gigantic books called San Remo manual, International Law etc... are saying, and to apply the UN/UNSC resolutions, and those are very clear guidelines.

      I know this point of view also sounds like an utopist's one, "follow the rules and everything will be ok", but I'm pretty sure this is the safest one to achieve a quick end to the conflict, maybe not an everlasting peace though.

      Oh, and also, why would English become an official language in this one state ? Sounds like typical occidental imposition of ideas, or modern colonialism, to me.

  • Don't forget the two-day detention of the flotilla members
    • melka June 17, 2010 at 7:18 am

      Keith, I'm afraid I have to agree with you that nobody really applies the Geneva Convention. However, I am naive/optimistic and if only we started to apply what's written in all those nice documents to everyone, maybe some things could change a bit, with Israel, the US and everyone else.

    • melka June 16, 2010 at 2:52 am with 2 replies

      I'll just leave this part of the IVth Geneva Convention

      Article 3 states that even where there is not a conflict of international character the parties must as a minimum adhere to minimal protections described as: noncombatants, members of armed forces who have laid down their arms, and combatants who are hors de combat (out of the fight) due to wounds, detention, or any other cause shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, with the following prohibitions:

      (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
      (b) taking of hostages;
      (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment
      (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

  • Muslim Student Union threatened with suspension for disrupting Israeli Ambassador
    • melka June 14, 2010 at 11:54 pm

      It's into our DNA (yep, I'm a sandblackperson) the same way Jewishness is in menachem's DNA ? Pfiou, i'm confident it's a fallacy, now.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:49 pm

      Amir Abdel Malik Ali wasn't hateful, he wasn't the one screaming like a madman, he even said "yes ma'am" several times.
      And you forgot to quote the other slogan they got :
      "Judaism Yes Zionism No"

  • Fair and balanced, the inquiry commission is
    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:44 pm

      yeah yeah, don't worry, I got it, that's what is really funny to me :)
      "unprecedented delegitimation campaign against Israel" sounds like a punchline in the mouth of Jerry Seinfeld

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:28 pm with 2 replies

      1st para : ahahahaha
      2nd para : wait, is he serious ?
      3rd - 4th para : damn, he is !
      5th para : "Friends of Israel Initiative" ! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Well played, David, well played.... almost got me...

  • Let's get the facts straight on Hamas
    • melka June 16, 2010 at 1:03 am

      (Even though French resistance is clearly overrated)

    • melka June 16, 2010 at 1:02 am with 1 replies

      You missed article 1-30. don’t kid yourself.
      Too bad the only part of the Likud Charter that was translated to English are the Peace & Security chapter, found on the official Knesset website. Anyone can provide a full translation of the full charter / platform ?

      The likud charter is a sympton of Palestinian terror also.
      By terror you mean resistance, I guess ? Like the French resistance was called "terror" by Germany ?

    • melka June 15, 2010 at 1:05 am

      My guess : both are muslims and I "narrative" means "liberation of jerusalem and regaining the al aqsa mosque" and/or "destruction of Israel". Correct me if I'm wrong Elliot but I'm pretty sure that's what's on your mind.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:35 pm

      chaos -- The Israeli Law of Return is a funny example of a two-speed "democracy" : it gives the right to the child and grandchild of a Jew (even to a granchild's spouse) to settle for land in Israel, even if said grandpa / grandma never lived in the region, but they refuse to grant the RoR to Palestinian, adding that it's not inherited by "future generations".

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:26 pm

      Hamas wishes to change the nature of Israel through the Right of Return
      May I just point out that RoR isn't something that Hamas created out of thin air, but is codified in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights ? Furthermore, resolution 3236 in 1974 :

      The General Assembly,
      Having considered the question of Palestine,
      Having heard the statement of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian people,
      Having also heard other statements made during the debate,
      Deeply concerned that no just solution to the problem of Palestine has yet been achieved and recognizing that the problem of Palestine continues to endanger international peace and security,
      Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
      Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
      Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
      Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

      1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
      1. (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
      2. (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
      2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
      3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
      4. Recognizes that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
      5. Further recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
      6. Appeals to all States and international organizations to extend their support to the Palestinian people in its struggle to restore its rights, in accordance with the Charter;
      7. Requests the Secretary-General to establish contacts with the Palestine Liberation Organization on all matters concerning the question of Palestine;
      8. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the General Assembly at its thirtieth session on the implementation of the present resolution;
      9. Decides to include the item entitled "Question of Palestine" in the provisional agenda of its thirtieth session.

      To summarize : Hamas or no Hamas, Right of Return exists and have to be realized.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:00 pm

      May I add this statement from Neturei Karta

      The Zionist government has proceeded with plans to enlarge the Barzilai Medical Center in Ashkelon by destroying an ancient cemetery. Thirty graves, identified by experts as Jewish graves from the Second Temple era, were evacuated by archaeologists. Beginning Saturday night, the government began bulldozing the entire lot, which certainly contains countless more graves.

      PS : besides their claims of being anti-zionist orthodox jews, I don't know much about Neturei Karta, so any info is welcome.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 9:52 pm

      rondenver : Israel has defined it's borders, but everyone seems to forget that, even Israel. Hell, just by logic, you can tell it's false : how come you can declare a state's sovereignty (therefore the territories it controls) without defining borders ?

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 2:27 pm

      So, in clear, the US wanted to push elections despite Fatah's warning that they were not ready, Hamas got elected, then the US funded and armed Fatah's security forces to crush Hamas, something that one can qualify as a coup, Hamas heard of the plan and went on to get rid of the Preventive Security Service. AND they want to make believe that Hamas "seized" Gaza with a coup.
      This reminds me of the story of Chavez etc... The US should really stop sticking their nose were it doesn't belong.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 1:28 pm

      Miriam : I watched the video with McGeough and Gerahty, and that struck me too that the IDF commandos knew who they were. Their name doesn't seem to be on the booklet, though. I've also watched the 1 hour footage from Iara Lee and commented on it here, but so far, I haven't seen any outcome from it either.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 11:40 am

      What part of that doesn’t Israel and their U.S.-Zionist media understand ?
      As long as it's in International Laws, they don't seem to bother reading it.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 9:12 am with 1 replies

      After reading the excerpts from the Likud platform, I strongly suggest the author to write a "Let's get the facts straight on Likud" article. At first I wanted to write in this comment my thoughts about each article of the platform but they are so ridiculous I'd prefer to see a full fledged article written by someone way better than me.
      I have a question though : when, in the life of a political party, a platform is written or signed ? The Likud's appear to have been written in 1999, whereas the party was formed in 1973. Just wondering if it's possible for a party to write or rewrite a charter years after it's creation.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 8:37 am

      Sorry Elliot, this comment wasn't a reply to yours, I just clicked the wrong button.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 8:36 am

      Just keep in mind that willing to accept the '67 borders is a really generous offer from Hamas/Palestinians.

  • Non-violence is not a principle, it is a tactic
    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:14 pm

      sorry, I forgot to link to the piece from the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs

      In December 1948, at a conference which took place in Jericho, a group of hand-picked leaders of Palestinian Arabs resolved to ask King Abdullah of Transjordan to incorporate the Arab parts of Palestine into his kingdom. The General Armistice Agreement of 3 April 1949 constituted de facto recognition of that incorporation; however, it was specifically designed as a military agreement which did not prejudice the political positions of the contracting parties.

      Thank you, talknic

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 10:10 pm

      But according to the Jewish Virtual Library and their listing of the Arab Leage sessions, yes.

      Session: 12-I
      Date: May 1950
      Place: Cairo, Egypt
      Chair: Iraq

      * Special session called to discuss steps against Jordan due to her unilateral annexation of Eastern Palestine; Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and Syria support expulsion, while Iraq pressed a compromise position (later accepted) which viewed Jordan as the "trustee" of the area.

      Session: 12-II
      Date: June 1950
      Place: Alexandria, Egypt
      Chair: Iraq

      * Jordan absent.
      * Council approved plan to consider Jordan the "trustee" of Eastern Palestine.
      * Collective security pact signed on 17 June by all except Jordan and Iraq.
      * Resolutions:
      o 321 (12 June 1950) Acknowledges receipt of the information that East Palestine had been annexed by Jordan
      o 323 Cooperation with the U.N. on refugee matters
      o 325 (12 June 1950), "Co-Operation between the Arab States and U.N.R.W.A." (Khalil, 2:167-68) - Cooperation with UNRWA approved

      and no UN Security Council Resolution against Jordan's annexion, by the way.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:58 pm

      Jordan's annexiation was as a trustee, asked for by and in agreement with Palestinians.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 11:34 am

      I see you are applying some strong Hasbara Jedi Mind Tricks here.
      I'm sure most of you already read this jewel by Frank Luntz for The Israel Project, but let me quote it for you, with some extracts from Richard's text.

      Every nation came to understand that the blockade is occurring (before it was off their radar largely), and that the Gazan civilians are the victims of it much moreso than Hamas even.

      3) Clearly differentiate between the Palestinian people and Hamas. There is an immediate and clear distinction between the empathy Americans feel for the Palestinians and the scorn they direct at Palestinian leadership. Hamas is a terrorist organization – Americans get that already. But if it sounds like you are attacking the Palestinian people (even though they elected Hamas) rather than their leadership, you will lose public support. Right now, many Americans sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, and that sympathy will increase if you fail to differentiate the people from their leaders.

      That is a good thing that the world is aware of the Gazans’ plight, and that they are seeking means to address that plight.

      1) Persuadables won’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Show Empathy for BOTH sides! The goal of pro-Israel communications is not simply to make people who already love Israel feel good about that decision. The goal is to win new hearts and minds for Israel without losing the support Israel already has. To do this you have to understand that the frame from which most Americans view Israel is one of “cycle of violence that has been going on for thousands of years.” Thus, you have to disarm them from their suspicions before they will be open to learning new facts about Israel.

      The significance of the violence, and specifically the clubbing and considered and attempted abduction of hostages, proved something different to the world, the same world.
      The states in the world have not concluded that the blockade is by definition illegal, that Gaza should have an unmoderated port, or that Israel should not manage its ground borders.

      World view is especially important to the Left as they see a world where basically all people are good and with education and communication we can all get along. This is stark contrast to most conservatives who believe that there are good people (i.e. Israel) and bad people (i.e. Iran) and that good people need to be protected from the bad people.

      Kuddos to you for trying, though, and applying the vicious methods that permits us to make our brains work, not like menachem for example, who couldn't go past the handbook.

      Please, Richard, stop being so blunt and think you're right. Everyone, from the UN to a large panel of lawyers etc... said the blockade was illegal. Just one link, you'll be able to find others.

      UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said on Saturday Israel's blockade of Gaza was illegal and should be lifted, and reiterated calls for an investigation into Israel's raid on aid supply ships this week.

      And once again, the disproportionnality of the attack is not playing on your side. Civilians clubbing armed militaries repelling down an helicopter after launching stun grenades & firing paintballs (and possibly live ammo, still waiting for strong video evidence even though I'm sure it's what happened) is impossible to qualify as a violent attack, I don't know how your mind can be so twisted for not accepting this simple fact.

      PS : Sorry for this long post mainly made of copy/paste, but I had to make it clear for Richard : he needs to learn to think by himself and not only apply the orders he read / been told. Maybe if he really put his neurons to work, he could be more credible.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 8:31 am

      Just found this little piece on The Guardian site (24 March 2010), about WP :

      The use of white phosphorus is governed by protocol III of the convention on conventional weapons, which Israel has not signed but which is regarded as binding under customary international law. Israel is accused of using white phosphorus outside its lawful limits – as an obscurant or smokescreen in open areas where combatants are caught under fire in the open. Using white phosphorus in densely populated areas where these conditions are not met is a violation of international law.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 7:28 am

      Sorry, I'm one of the new guys here. I've been fed up with the media coverage and wanted to read/hear other points of view.
      I'll take note of his writings, maybe we could publish a comedy piece out of it.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 7:08 am with 6 replies

      So, Rick, the Rodney King analogy is the new guideline in the Hasbara guide ? You already used it twice.
      I wonder if menachem will use it too.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:54 am

      As you said, it "The reality of the Mavi Marmara press". press.
      Disclaimer : I understand the word "press" as newspapers, medias, etc... English is not my native language, so I may not understand it quite right.
      What the press, at least the mainstream one that 90% of the people rely on, is not objective and/or investigative. That's all.
      The press often fail to talk about the legal issue at hand, just using the words of, say, Erdogan saying "state piracy". The press should and must contact lawyers and experts in the field to get the facts : this is not piracy, this is a declaration of war. This is invasion on at least one sovereign state territory (maybe not Turkey on the Mavi Marmara, because it was changed to be Comoros flagged just before the sail, but the other boats were Turkish, Greece, USA and Ireland flagged). The press often fail to do the burglar analogy and the self-defense from the passengers. The press often fail to compare this event with, say, pirates in Somalia, which, by the way, even armed with Kalashnikov and openly hostiles, can be boarded and arrested without one casualtie one either side.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:40 am

      From what I saw on Iara Lee's 1 hour video (albeit we still don't have a full uncut timeline), the IDF started the hostility by firing stun grenades and paintballs from the zodiacs, then they started aiming (not sure if they shot) at people using laser sight from the helicopter, well before the commandos landed on the deck. And I'm sure this laser sight was not attached to a paintball gun.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:35 am

      Israel simply couldn't use napalm because it was banned for use against civilians in 1980 by the UN (Convention on Certain Conventionnel Weapons).
      From Wikipedia :

      Protocol III on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons prohibits, in all circumstances, making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat or a combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target
      [...]
      Protocol III lists certain munition types like smoke shells which, even if they contain White Phosphorus, only have a secondary incendiary effect. These munition types are not considered to be Incendiary weapons.

      With this convention, you can see that napalm is clearly banned, but white phosphorus can still be used with the excuse "it's not primarily incendiary". I wonder what was Israel's defense at the time.

    • melka June 14, 2010 at 6:26 am

      I'm not sure about Finkelstein's position on the one state solution, but I think this would be a bad one :
      1/ Just remember what was voted and decided before the '47 partition plan. The Arab League was OK with a 2 state solution, but not the one proposed by the UN. Trying now a one state solution would be erasing everything done for 50 years now (albeit it's not much) and what the people living down there want, plus we'll be raising a lot more of other issues : who would have control, etc....
      2/ As a result of a one state solution, we might see a civil war appear, and I think (not sure about that) that the UN can't take action in a civil war. However, I may be naive but I hope the UN will one day take its responsibility and send some armed forces to help finish the I/P conflict.
      Sorry for disgressing about the subject of the article.

  • Nader: 'Anti-semitism against Arabs is rife' in U.S.
    • melka June 13, 2010 at 10:27 am

      Maybe you're moderated because you're saying that everyone is anti-jew ? (I've stopped using the word antisemite yesterday)
      Regarding this study and not being a genetician, I'd like to know how "deep" they dug to conclude that jewishness is genetic... We all know that by digging deep enough in the DNA pool, we're all descendants from one stem of anthropomorphic creatures, and if you go even farther, bacterias and such (unless you don't believe in genetics, mendel, darwin, etc...). Plus in the same study, they have the guts to say that Jews and Palestinians have a lot in common in their DNA. Nice move, Israel, kill your own family.
      I wonder also if those people are realizing what they are saying and what can be thought of it : your DNA says you're a Jew. This is some wild door open to more anti-jew hate from neo-nazis and such. Don't forget who had something in the same vein (hint : germany).
      At least Shlomo said something that was good for fighting jewphobia (yeah, i'm using this word too, like i'd say negrophobia) : being jewish is a cultural choice, so anyone can be jewish, even japanese. That showed what Judaism truly is : a religion, a state of mind, something peaceful for everyone to enjoy.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 10:00 am

      menachem
      I love how you people think that we can just turn back the clock and ’start from scratch.
      Aren't you the ones stating that this part of the globe was the land God promised to the Jews and/or talking about going back to Eretz Israel ? Talk about turning back the clock.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 9:26 am

      I forgot to say, if you need any free help, I'm a graphic & web designer, so feel free to contact me, you'll find my email on my website which you can access by clicking on my nickname.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 9:24 am

      talknic
      May I ask you a question ? Do you live in Israel (our homeland state) ? If yes, you are the reason why we must not block Israeli IPs on mondoweiss :)
      May I give you an advice ? Write a goddamn book or make a video like "money as debt" etc.... !!! Your site is full of wonderful infos that have to be spread and known, but let me be frank, it's hard to read, too much text on each pages, bad layout, etc... It needs some more graphics too, like maps etc...

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 8:45 am

      I heard about this movie, gonna watch it.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 8:24 am

      Speaking of oil, but not related to Israel, there's the spill in Nigeria no-one talked about, and another around Korea, I believe... Oil spills are destructive only when they touch Western countries, it seems.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 7:48 am

      And fyi, Le Figaro and other news sites only relayed the part about the EuroSatori salon & the alleged reason that he's not going because he wants to stay in Israel until the "team of expert investigating" the assault is formed, but not a word about the Legal Action taken. You gotta love journalistic integrity.

    • Page: 1
    • melka June 13, 2010 at 7:39 am

      Wow, thanks Walid, I haven't heard of this !!
      Found some infos on ynet : that's sum good news !!

      Over the weekend, French activists who took part in the flotilla to the Gaza Strip announced that they intend to file a lawsuit against Barak both in France and in the International Criminal Court in The Hague. Three members of French parliament have joined the effort.

      Another link.

      Unfortunately, this action is coming from some activists and backed by only 3 parliament members. I really hoped that this kind of action would come from the Prime Minister or President, but hey, what can you say ...

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 7:26 am

      The Ark of The Covenant is said to be housed in Adis Ababa
      I always thought it was at Petra, in Jordan. Did Spielberg and Lucas lie to me ?

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 7:18 am

      Thanks for the clarifications talknic.
      Even though Israel declared it's borders in '47 and those territories are legal according to the UN etc..., I still think (like the Arab League at the time) those borders are just a theft of land, regarding demography and ressources (water, fertile lands, etc...). So even if Palestine have an opportunity to declare its sovereignty inside the '47 borders (let alone the '67 which they offered to do), at the end of the day, they got screwed.

    • melka June 13, 2010 at 12:11 am

      Not sure about this, this would need a lot of research, plus I'm tired so I guess I won't quite answer your question. I believe the self-determination principle was written in the UN Charter in 1941, and the ratification of the charter was in 1945.
      Between 1917 (Balfour) and the UN Charter ratification, according to wikipedia, the different aliyahs brought the percentage of jews in Palestine up to 33%. So in '45, there was a huge population of jews in Palestine that might give them some kind of right to selfdetermination, even if they've been living there for no more than 40 years.
      I guess that as Britain had a mandate until '47, the zionists from England used this opportunity to "import" as many jews as possible in Palestine. This appears to be a story were Britain refused at one point to help Zionists in accordance to the Arabs wishes, and received in exchange good old terrorists attack for being anti-jews. Funny, hé ?
      Where I can really see the zionist lobby, money and military alliances being played and justice crapped upon is with the 1947 partition plan. When the UN voted the plan despite the Arab League and Palestinians refusing the proposed borders, a majority wasn't reached until Zionist and USA pushed Libera, Philippine and Haiti to vote in favor. Truman noted :

      The facts were that not only were there pressure movements around the United Nations unlike anything that had been seen there before, but that the White House, too, was subjected to a constant barrage. I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance. The persistence of a few of the extreme Zionist leaders — actuated by political motives and engaging in political threats — disturbed and annoyed me.

      In addition, the US delagation implied that setting up one state wasn't conditionnal on the setting up of the other state. In clear, when Israel sent the letter from the Agent of the Provisionnal Government to the US President, they said "f**k you palestinians, we have our borders, it's legal according to the UN, suck it". Might be the only time they did something that the UN consider legal.
      Since then, occupation of the territories, so the Palestinian never had a chance to claim their sovereignty.

      You know, Algeria got it's independance from France in 1962, after 8 years of war. Before that it was still a colony, so the self-determination principle, when not applied to European, Zionists or Western countries at least, isn't much.

      Most of the crap I wrote comes from wikipedia, by the way.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 10:27 pm

      Won't work, proxys + hasbaratistas outside Israel... :/

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 10:18 pm

      About the national defense, I'm a bit of an optimistic guy, but I believe each sovereign country has the right to defend itself against whatever he considers can be a threat. For example, I believe that Iran (the country, not necessarily Ahmedinejad) has the right to have the nuclear weapon. The best way would be "no one has it, everyone is equal", but having only a few countries in possession and not the other is just another kind of oppression.
      About the airspace issue, I believe this has to be an agreement between the 2 countries, as the one Israel had (till last week) with Turkey (joint military training, etc...), and in fact as every country has with other countries (you can't just get the US air force to go across any airspace without an agreement).

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 10:11 pm

      azythos, if I'm still not answering your question, you can kick my arse, that would give me a reason to go to sleep (5:10AM here) :)

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 10:07 pm

      Sorry, azythos, I might have misunderstood your question. I think that the only legal borders for Israel are those stated in UN resolution of November 27 1947 that they claimed as sovereign territory in a letter from the agent of the provisionnal government of Israel.
      Except from those borders, everything else, as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan already had declared borders, is implicitly Palestine.
      Israel doesn't have the right to claim the borders of 1967, because those territories were won by force/war, which is illegal.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 9:56 pm

      azythos : I believe that has something to do with the British Mandate and the Balfour declaration. From what I understood, Britain had a mandate to administrate Palestine valid until 1947. Lord Balfour issued a letter to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland in 1917, stating that Britain favored the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine :

      His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

      In 1947, Israel quickly jumped on the occasion to declare it's territory sovereign but never let a chance since then to the Palestinian to do so (they have always been occupied, and according to the law, you have to be in total control of your border to get to declare sovereignty)
      It's legal, but it certainly ain't moral.
      Look at talknic's website, he have some really interesting documents. A lot.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 8:43 pm

      Well put. Just let me add that the '67 borders would be a really generous offer from the Palestinian, as the "missing lands" from the '47 partition plan was never annexed, but occupied, so they don't belong to Israel.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 8:33 pm

      I think Arabs should invent their own word for hatred of Arabs.

      I disagree, I think we should just drop antisemitism and just use the same term for every "race" : racism or xxx-phobia. Having a particular word for jew-phobia plays once again in the field of putting ones suffering above the other. Antisemitism is racism, nothing more nothing less, and shouldn't be defined by a particular word.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 3:23 pm with 1 replies

      I do agree with everyone of you : antisemitic, if you take it's "pure" meaning, isn't anti-jew-only. I'm just pointing that even though Nader is using the right word, some stupid commenters are certainly gonna use this non-error to bash him. He's gonna be painted as an idiot by the vast majority of propagandist wanting to make believe that jews and israeli are the only semites, which will undermine the core of his statement : reinstate Helen Thomas. He should have been careful and play dumb, I think.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 1:30 pm with 14 replies

      I know that semitic, in ethnology, includes Arabs, but doesn't Antisemitic obviously mean anti-jew in the common language ? I'm afraid he's saying the truth, but using a bad word (well, in fact, the right word but not as the majority understands it) will be for sure the hammer peoples will use to smash him. "oh lulz you'z stoopid" etc etc...

  • These 'Times' demand Robert Mackey
    • melka June 12, 2010 at 7:34 am

      I noticed that. Not sure is gonna win any war, though, he's surrounded by a myriad of pro-israel commenters. You might be armed with the best material, if they are hundreds, it's gonna be hard. The roles are inverted this time, I guess.

  • Report: Obama to call for independent inquiry of flotilla raid
    • melka June 11, 2010 at 7:53 pm

      I don't know who Kristol is, but I do like those kind of moments : guy says that some government/company will, for once, do something right, just to have the pleasure to hear this government/company officially deny and say "no, no, we're sticking with screwing everyone".

  • Corporate media's message: Turkey is the new enemy
    • melka June 12, 2010 at 10:09 pm

      So there will still be a huge crowd of Muslim Turks angry enough to kick their asses.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 6:54 am

      Thanks, I'll read those links and maybe join in the discussion :)

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 9:20 pm with 6 replies

      hayate, do you have any interesting link about the military coups d'etat in Turkey ? I'd like to know more, but as when I searched for the Chavez story, I almost got only pro-american infos.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 2:44 pm with 2 replies

      Can countries members of the NATO attack each other ? If not, that would mean one of the 2 have to get out of NATO before any bombing occur, I guess, but I'm no war expert, just raising a point.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 2:00 pm

      I just don't understand, really, how the Israeli PR-hasbaratistas-spin doctors-whatever goons can think we'll believe what they are saying ? Just by looking at some official documents, you can at the very least raise serious questions to their affirmations.
      About the IHH terrorist links, here it is : UNHCR 2009 NGO Partner Profile. (I know I already played this card).
      IHH is on page 39, just after the Finnish Refugee Council and before France Terre d'Asile. Can any pro-Israeli care to explain why would the UN consider a PARTNER an NGO with terrorist ties ?

      And please stop using the "look at them, they killed Armenians, why can't we kill Arabs" flag. We won't be fooled by your diversion tactics.

  • Gaza flotilla lesson: nonviolent discipline is the best moral and strategic choice
    • melka June 12, 2010 at 6:13 pm

      Ok, thanks for the clarification, and sorry for my misunderstanding :)

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 3:26 pm with 1 replies

      The Israelis are more than half Western in culture, moreover associated by Jewish tradition with the half of Western culture which is most humane

      Could you please elaborate this idea ? Especially the "Western culture which is most humane" part. I may have miunderstood you but it seems to me that you're saying Wester culture is more humane than others. That bothers me. A lot.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 7:18 am

      Who are we to ask people to do this?
      You're totally right, we can't ask people to put their brain and hearts in the trajectory of bullets, but as I stated earlier when I ranted about religions, don't forget that a lot of people are willing to die for this cause. I'm not saying we should recruit an army of people willing to become martyrs, but we also never should forget that as we are fighting for pure justice, a lot of people (if not the majority) fighting for Palestine are muslims and they do it for 2 other reasons : fraternity for their brothers in faith and having "control" on some holy piece of land. Those people don't need us telling them what to do, they are prepared to die during this fight. I'm not saying they are willing to kill, though, just lose their own live.
      I recognize what I am saying can be frightening to some and even fuel zionists with their fear of external "terrorists" or jihadists, but I believe this is important to take into consideration.
      I don't know who the people writing articles and comments on mondoweiss are, what faith they have, etc... but this is just what I observed in my neighborhood (muslim family living in france).

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 9:50 pm with 1 replies

      1. Don’t passengers have the right to defend themselves, even with lethal force if they are illegally boarded and fired upon? I don’t know about this.

      As is saying Craig Murray :

      Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

      Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

      In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

      So in one case, it should be judged by the International Criminal Court and the other by Turkey's legal system. In one case or another, we still have not enough infos to know the truth.
      I don't remember who said that (one of the passenger of the flotilla, maybe Ed Peck), but in this case, it's like a burglar coming into your home, and according to US laws, I believe, you can kick the shit out of him or even kill him in self-defense for as long as he's staying on your property.
      Sorry for my pointless comments :)

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 8:52 pm

      Let me correct you : The lasting impact of the flotilla affair in the eyes of the world will forever be the display of Israel's total disdain of international laws and institutions like the UN and how the Obama administration (like previous ones) are playing with Israel at the risk of a really ugly increase of terrorists attack on US soil.

      And please stop complaining about being moderated. I have to remind you that a website is under the control of their owners/creators, and like in a newspaper, if they don't want to display your opinion, they are free to do so. There are plenty other websites out there where you can write if this one doesn't suits you.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 3:22 pm

      Not millions of Arabs and/or Muslims, as the Turkish people or people of Turkish origin now, only wave after wave of lambs willingly walking to the slaughter to free Israel’s fearful soul?

      Well, that would solve the fascislamism problem (sarcasm)

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 2:31 pm

      I second Elliot's remark : who remembers the Rachel Corrie and it's passengers ? Did the "peaceful" arrest of those people bring any media attention and/or pressur on Israel to end the blockade ?

      I'm not a big theologist, but there's also this factor to take into account : Gandhi and his followers were mostly Hindu when the Turkish and a lot of other people aboard the Marmara were Muslims. Those two religions are teaching something different about violence. I'm in no way saying that Islam is a violent religion and Hinduism is peaceful, but they have different conceptions.
      If I'm right, I believe Hinduism teaches nonviolence of the righteous and courageous, but if you fear for your life you have to use violence in a self-defense way. Indian history can bring a lot of references about people patiently suffering under oppression because they still have the courage to suffer.
      In Islam, there's the Shahid concept, litteraly meaning "witness" but in fact meaning "martyr". A muslim martyr is promised a place in Paradise if he dies fighting for a noble cause, so staying alive is not a problem. We also have to remember a thing : for a lot of muslims around the world, the fight for the Palestinians is also a fight for East Jerusalem and the holy places, like the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock. Never underestimate the role of these places in the heart of the muslims fighting against Israel.

      I could tell you some stories about how religious muslims like my late father (and maybe a vast majority of them, but I'm not sure, and I don't follow this point of view myself) view this I/P conflict, but you would consider me a nut and a conspiracy theorist.

  • New footage of flotilla attack contradicts Israeli account
    • melka June 12, 2010 at 6:42 pm

      Hum, over at Craig Murray's blog, a comment suggest that paint balls doesn't "explode" and leave such a huge splatter. It might be also that paint is thicker than blood, and leaves a more compact stain, something like that.
      If anyone cares to translate what the photographer is saying.

    • melka June 12, 2010 at 6:10 pm with 1 replies

      Ok, I've watched the hour-long video from cultures of resistance. There's not a lot to say.
      - IDF clearly engaged the hostility when they fired paintballs on the passengers from the zodiacs + threw some stun grenades (around 36 minutes in the video). They also wanted to really frighten and provoke them : red paint balls ? Come on, don't say you're not looking for troubles.
      - There are weird bangs starting at 38:25. They seem different from the sound the paintball gun made, but I don't know what it can be or where they come from.
      - What kind of weapon is the laser sight you see at 39:32, clearly coming from above (and almost 100% sure the helicopter), attached to ? I don't quite understand what the man (Turkish photographer, it seems) is saying.
      - Starting at 41:25, I see 2 ropes and being launched and 9 commandos sliding down.
      - Loud bang at 42:47, quite different from the paintball sound, followed by somebody saying something sounding like "pistol" (not sure about the audio part, the man wearing the red keffyeh is talking arab or turkish)
      - Once again, loud bang at 43:14, followed by somebody (the bald man) saying something in turkish sounding like "pistol", shortly followed by the first casualtie being dragged inside
      - At 43:34, I have no more doubt : 7 gunshots followed by 4 blasts (is this the good word ? rapid firing, like a machine gun)
      - At 44:16, bearded man shows a list of people found on a commando.
      Images here : link to img816.imageshack.us
      - At 45:25, a commando is brought inside the ship. The bearded man says "here comes another soldier" and later "we hold 2 soldiers down there, bleeding and wounded"
      - Around 47:05, french girl says "Why did they shoot, he's got holes, he's got holes in the belly" the second responds "that's not real bullets, that's marbles", the first one says "in any case, marbles or not, it hurts you"
      - Starting at 50:52, people are beind a door with a broken porthole, trying to protect it. There's a laser pointing at the wall, seems to come from out outside via the porthole (I don't see anyone with a laser pointer inside), then we hear 2 shots. Laser point continues to move on the wall, then a while later, more shots. Someone is saying "le hill allahi allah". We don't see any paint splatter on the wall, so we can assume that the laser pointer is not attached to a paintball gun.
      - At 51:08 a bullet impact appears on the wall. Image : link to img257.imageshack.us
      Sorry for the highlighting, I don't like to point to evidence, but it's not that visible, but just watch the video, this is clearly not self defense, just killing. At first I thought it was dust on the camera, but it's always at the same place on the wall. One guy jumps on the floor, but we see him later, he doesn't seem to be wounded. From the whole sequence, the only thing I can conclude is that those men are trying to protect the entry of the area where the wounded people are. They are doing so with wooden sticks, chains and metal poles, and they are fired upon via the porthole by the IDF.
      - Starting at 55:00, we can see the sun is clearly rising from behind the boat. As MRW stated above :

      You can see the sun rise in the east, and the Mavi Marmara is steaming west to get away from them. In retreat. And the IDF bastards are chasing them.

      That corroborates Ali Abunimah observation that the boat was fleeing and the IDF was clearly chasing them.
      - At 56:00, we can see Ken O'Keefe and another man moving someone who seems to be dead on a stretcher while there are more gunshots.

      My conclusion : the IDF clearly initiated the hostility (firing blood-red paintballs from the zodiacs + stun grenades). That may be non-lethal, it's nonetheless illegal. We also know they used some kind of lethal weapon (rifle maybe) using a laser sight, and we saw laser points on the deck before the commandos boarded, so they had those lethal weapons in hand before sliding down the rope. Did they fire from the helicopter, I don't know. But the more important point : when the guys were behind the door, they weren't a threat to the commandos life, but they got shot at. This is clearly not self-defense, but just plain killing.

      Sorry for playing my little Sherlock Holmes, but frankly, I wonder which media will take the time to watch the video and analyze it. I hope what I wrote could help.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 10:40 pm

      When someone says RIP Israel, I’d like to know what they think whoever “kills” Israel would do with the Jews.
      One state solution, that's all.

      Blah blah Shingo, you are obviously delusional and arguing with you is futile. Have a good night.
      el-oh-el

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 9:39 pm

      Richard, I'm sorry but I have to agree with Paul Woodward here. The only thing I can conclude from this video is that 2 commandos are beating someone who's lying down (cowardice, but we knew that) and then pointing something looking like a rifle and maybe firing. Let me explain :
      - We just can't know if it's Furkan or another one of the 9 people dead (or maybe just injured)
      - This weapon doesn't seem to be a paintball gun, there's no hopper (container for the paint balls). We see the "soldier" kind of pumping. Paintball guns have a CO2 cartridge, you don't manually pump air, or at least I hope for them that the IDF doesn't use Super Soakers. We can assume this is not paintball.
      - The pumping motion may also be interpreted as loading a single bullet inside the chamber, but that's a bit far fetched.
      - We don't see a muzzle flash and there can be various explanations for that. First, they may have used a supressor, in which case the flash is not visible. Another explanation is due to the fact that flashes are only a few milliseconds long, and the video is between 25 and 30 frame per seconds. I think it was Shingo that gave this explanation, but in cinema, you just add the muzzle flash in post production because it's really hard to capture them on film while filming.
      - This can be a kind of non-lethal weapon, like a flashball. Just remember that at this kind of range (maybe no more than 1m between the tip of the cannon and the person lying on the ground), flashballs can be lethal. So in this case, the "soldier" is being ruthless, maybe wanting to kill somebody already under control (read "beaten to a pulp")

      Just to be clear : I'm sure it's not a paintball gun, and that the commando is acting like a huge ahole. But I just can't be sure with these images that he's in fact executing someone, granted I'm not a military expert.

      If I can correct you, this is not "our only true evidence", because of the way it was altered (music, visual commentary, etc...) that are just the work of someone who wants to point your mind in one direction and not let you think. This is using the same methods as Israel, and we should not do that, unless we want to be delegitimized ourselves.

      (damn, I just realized I already wrote all of this on the same page, in different posts)

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 8:57 pm

      it’s very hard to get the truth through the information and free-speech blockade that is active in Israel
      There, I fixed it for you

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 8:46 pm

      sorry about the link tag I forgot to close...

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 8:44 pm with 1 replies

      Watched the video and the other one of Mehmut Tuval, captain of the Mavi Marmara.
      - Videos not released by the IDF or its spokesperson, but via the "Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center". Nice move, trying once again to disguise people as terrorists.
      - Once again, wildly edited footage, with no timestamp.
      - I don't speak Turkish, so I can't say that the translations are false or right. What I can say is that IHH appears a lot inside brackets, like when they use arrows and text comments on a video to show you "look, here, we're right, think like us". Don't forget we regreted that for the alleged "Furkan's death" video.
      - Are we even sure those 2 guys are really the captain and chief officer ? Can't find anything about them, except hundreds of pages linking to this videos.
      - The questions "did they control the ship", "did they let people move around" etc... insinuate that they were controling the ship in a "bad way", like imprisoning people. Weren't they preventing people (like women and children) of getting on the deck when they knew IDF would attack, thus protecting them ?
      - Only thing they "prove" in these videos is that there were people from IHH cutting parts of the ship with grinders. That goes along with their theory they were looking for a fight, so they must be skinheads looking to beat up some jews. It doesn't prove nothing else, and certainly not the most important question I have : did the IDF shot live ammo before boarding the ship ?
      Has you like to say, menachem : "So much wholes"

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 8:09 pm with 1 replies

      Diffusing this video is also a violation of the Geneva statutes.
      I already saw this argument claimed, about the footage of the passengers on the port. Is this in the IVth Convention ? Any infos on this ?

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 7:37 pm

      Ok, so there's a hopper on the video you linked.
      But is there a hopper on the video of this post ? That's the video we're talking about. You said, repeatedly, that the weapon on THIS video was a paintball gun or another non-lethal weapon. Now we agree it's not a paintball gun (I still don't see no hopper here), but that doesn't mean it's a non lethal weapon.
      Flashball at point blank range can be lethal, I already told you that.
      If you only spent some time reading what we are writing instead of trying to "score points" (which is, as written in the Hasbara Handbook, innefective on forums where people try to think by themselves), you would have seen that we mostly agree that this video shows nothing but 2 Israeli "soldiers" beating someone and then shooting him/her with an unidentified weapon at point blank range. We also condemned the use of text on the video and the short editing, because we don't want to use the same methods as Israel.
      Now please kindly stop using Method 1 and apply Method 2.

      Genuine Debate
      Traditional approaches to Israel advocacy have often assumed that all talk about Israel should consist of short sound bites and point scoring. This approach can backfire when used on people who are analysing documents and trying to think deeply, and who really just want somebody to present arguments rationally to them.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 7:15 pm with 1 replies

      Let me spare Menachem the effort and take the role of the hasbara artist

      The IDF seized all the videos and equipment to avoid the terrorists on the boat to edit the videos and use them as propaganda on jihadist websites. Israel is in a war and every army seizes the media.

      See, it's easy. That's in substance what I read on The Lede comments.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 7:13 pm

      I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re an old one w/ a new name.

      Actually, he is. Watch a bit higher.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 7:10 pm

      I still haven't seen a picture of this hopper-less manually pumped paintball gun of yours...

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 2:52 pm

      Maybe you could create a new post about the 1 hour video, so that we can start the commenting on a clean sheet ?

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 12:51 am with 4 replies

      lareineblanche, I think this post by Craig Murray is pretty much the only evidence you need.

      A word on the legal position, which is very plain. To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

      Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador. He is also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. He negotiated the UK's current maritime boundaries with Ireland, Denmark (Faeroes), Belgium and France, and boundaries of the Channel Islands, Turks and Caicos and British Virgin Islands. He was alternate Head of the UK Delegation to the UN Preparatory Commission on the Law of the Sea. He was Head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre, enforcing sanctions on Iraq, and directly responsible for clearance of Royal Navy boarding operations in the Persian Gulf.

    • melka June 11, 2010 at 12:05 am

      I do hope so too. More important, we'll maybe have a timeline of events, as everything we saw until now are bits and pieces occuring at different times, often without any timestamp of any sort.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 11:48 pm

      So first they fired from the helicopters?

      Next they stormed the ship, with rifles and cover fire from the helicopters.
      Do you even proof-read what you're writing ? Don't you see you're once again contradicting IDFs claims that they did not shoot before boarding the ship ?

      Ok, O'Keefe had at one point a pistol, then a rifle in his hands. Maybe other passengers on the marmara touched these weapons. Where are the forensics reports and photos showing bullet wounds on the Israeli commandos ? There may be some but I haven't seen them, so please provide a link.

      And I'm still waiting for the paintball gun picture I asked you, menachem...

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 11:17 pm

      The next flotillas need to try to deploy the best off-the-shelf anti-electronic warfare techniques available to mankind.

      Assuming they don't have the finances to get all this fancy equipment, shouldn't the next flotilla just sail across the Egyptian border, in Egypt's territorial water, to go into Gaza's territorial water ? I know there's a lot of diplomatic and legal issues with such a plan, first one being getting the authorization to enter Egypt's water, but could that work ? Or maybe there are authorized Israeli forces enforcing the blockade in Egypt's water too ?

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 11:09 pm

      Anybody reading hebrew can translate those texts ?
      Image here : link to img816.imageshack.us

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:57 pm

      By the way I'm still waiting for the picture of the paintball gun without reservoir (or hopper, as I learnt how it's called) and that needs to be manually pumped (are the IDF finances so bad they can't afford gas cartridges ?)

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:53 pm

      Do you want to recruit Shingo ? I think Israel have enough advance in the nuclear field, they don't need another Oppenheimer.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:18 pm

      I'm neither an administrator nor a long time user of the site, so don't even ask me : no idea.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:12 pm

      Aren't paintball guns supposed to have a huge reservoir full of, hence the name, paint balls ? As you said, i'm no expert at weapons, but please show me one withouth any container to put the balls.
      And don't forget that any kind of non-lethal weapons, like the flashball, are non lethal from a certain distance. At close range, it can kill. Those guys are shooting at almost point-blank.
      If you read the comments carefully (on the other post) you'd see that we are not saying those "soldiers" are killing someone, we are trying to understand what happened, unlike you and the other hasbaratistas.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:04 pm

      I totally agree with you, MRW, but it's kind of fun :)

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 10:03 pm

      Weren't you the ones who said that you boarded the ship without being prepared for a big fight, just a little protest ? In this case, why would you bring Uzis and stuff ?

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 9:59 pm

      There are some major issues with your guys’ theory here, i’d like someone to fill in the wholes.

      Let me return the compliment

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 9:55 pm

      Sorry, it's the Automatic Identification System signal, as recorded by the website marinetraffic.com
      As you can see, AIS works using the VHF transponder, so blocking the satellite communications doesn't interfere.
      I don't think that Hamas nor Israel have any shares of the stock of marinetraffic.com, so I consider this data accurate.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 8:26 pm

      So because I live in France, I am not able in any way to speak about the I/P conflict, I should only speak about France related stuff ?
      Well, let me say that : France reaction to the I/P situation is unacceptable and French media coverage of the flottilla "incident" and the whole I/P issue is making me puke.
      I don't even know why I'm wasting time answering, though.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 8:19 pm with 5 replies

      From the mondoweiss.net about page :

      About Mondoweiss

      Mondoweiss is a news website devoted to covering American foreign policy in the Middle East, chiefly from a progressive Jewish perspective.

      It has four principal aims:

      1. To publish important developments touching on Israel/Palestine, the American Jewish community and the shifting debate over US foreign policy in a timely fashion;

      2. To publish a diversity of voices to promote dialogue on these important issues;

      3. To foster the movement for greater fairness and justice for Palestinians in American foreign policy;

      4. To offer alternatives to pro-Zionist ideology as a basis for American Jewish identity.

      From the list above, except Iran, we have nothing to say about all those other subjects here on Mondoweiss.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 7:15 pm

      Well, saying that CNN and the BBC are not talking about it is a sign of its non-importance isn't playing for you, you know.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 6:52 pm with 5 replies

      Wow, nice observation, MRW. I guess you're talking about the footage starting at 11:58, where you can clearly see that the sky is pink/orange behind the boat and a lot darker in front.
      That corroborates the works by Ali Abunimah where you can see the route of the boat thanks to it's GPS signal.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 6:15 pm with 1 replies

      Hum, I've watched the video, seems to be edited. Iara said on Democracy Now there was a whole hour of footage, this video is only 15/16 minutes.
      One thing though, what is this list of people ? Anyone speaking Hebrew care to translate ?
      Images of the list grabbed from Lee's video here : link to img816.imageshack.us

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 4:40 pm

      Twin Cities Indymedia just twitted that they'll host the HD footage from Iara Lee in about 30 minutes.
      link to twitter.com

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 4:36 pm with 1 replies

      Being from a muslim family and having lost my father not so long ago, I can tell you that it's in our culture not to cry and mourn for too loong. It's said to be bad luck for the dead person to shed tears in front of his body. In addition, we have this concept that is really powerful : mektoub ("it was written"). Everything that happens is God's will, and you can't fight against it. I know there's almost the same thing in Christianity ("God works in mysterious ways", etc...) but to muslims, mektoub is more than pure destiny : you can't fight it, so you don't have to be sad, you must be joyous that it has happened. In the case of a dead relative, you should be happy that he/she is know free of the burden of life and corpse.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 2:43 pm

      I think it's Edward Peck who said that (really not sure) but there's no need for an investigation, just look at the fact : boarding a boat in international waters and killing people is a crime. Point.

  • Ads promoting one democratic state pop up in Ramallah
  • Israel's 'self-defense' narrative falls apart
    • melka June 10, 2010 at 6:12 pm

      Why is there so much confusion?
      You see, that's where Israel will be stronger than all the activists and good-willing people : they are a little bit organized. They are all telling the same lie and using the same source, and marketing professionals know that well, repeat the same thing all over again, people will believe it. Plus the media bias/lazyness.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 4:57 pm

      Forgot to mention your use of the word "Nazi" : according to Mike Godwin, we won't be able to discuss more. Sorry.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 4:55 pm

      Oh, you know, I'll let all the audio distortion shenanigans to others. Plus I advertise it when I take something out of context and/or modify it.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 3:31 pm

      Interesting, he says they disarmed one who had a pistol with live ammo and another with an assault rifle. He did not use the words "paintball" or whatever (that doesn't mean they didn't have paintball weapons, just that Ken did not touch one). Coming from an ex-marine, I think that's important to note.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 2:39 pm with 5 replies

      I haven't found any source about the type of weapons used. What I only know is that they've found 30 bullet wounds (not sure they found the bullets) in the bodies of the 9 dead people, but I don't know if they are 9mm or other caliber.
      This might be a paintball gun but, and I state it once again I'm not an expert with firearms, the weapon might be an AK47 or a sniper rifle like a Remington M24. According to isayeret.com, the Israeli special forces uses this kind of weapon (and a whole lot more). I don't see the bullet magazine on the video, but maybe the IDF "soldier" was just loading one bullet in the chamber ? In the case of the sniper rifle, it's often manually reloaded + we can see some sort of scope on the top of the weapon...
      All of this is just thought thrown in the wild so that maybe we can get closer to the truth, but as long as we don't have full footage, nobody can know for sure.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 2:02 pm with 1 replies

      Iara Lee talked on Democracy Now this morning, she said that it's possible those people were undercover agents but as she has not enough information, she truly don't know where those missing persons are.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 1:46 pm with 4 replies

      The video discussed on Democracy Now was filmed by Iara Lee of Cultures of Resistance. It is apparently 1 hour long of raw footage she smuggled out of the boat. It will be unveiled later in the afternoon, 4PM EST, at a UN Press Conference.
      This might be the video Norman Finkelstein talked about on Russia Today when confronting Daniel Pollack on June 3rd.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm with 1 replies

      Oh god, just watched the video, this question is just the cherry on the cake. If you take Oren's answer a bit out of context, answering "I don't agree with that" is priceless. Reminded me immediately of the Yes Men actions (especially the Bhopal one).

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 1:25 pm with 1 replies

      What bothers me on this video is the big white-on-red "FURKAN'S DEATH", the music and the commentary added (the circled zones and text, not the actual audio commentary, but I'm not sure this audio track is the good one, I think I heard it on the other video where the 3 reporters are talking in english, turkish, etc... and taking turns). If people want to prove something, they shouldn't take the same course as the IDF and MFA by pointing zones and saying "look, that's what's happening, we are right". Using the same methods as the ennemy won't help the cause.
      I'm not a big weapon connoisseur, but if it's live ammo, shouldn't we see a flare at the tip of the cannon ?
      Once again, I'm just raising these points but don't worry, I just want the truth, I'm no hasbaratista :)

  • Israel’s cult of victimhood: ‘Barefoot’ soldiers on the high seas
    • melka June 10, 2010 at 7:44 am

      Oh, and just to be clear about French TV : news for June 6th showed the pictures of the injured IDF soldier, reported them as being published in a Turkish newspaper (which is right) but they didn't show the ones were they were being healed and taken care of. Instead, we had a nice segment from Avital Leibovitch claiming once again that because the people on the Rachel Corrie were arrested without violence, those on the Mavi Marmara were dangerous activist seeking to kill Israeli soldiers.
      Since June 6th, no more infos on the subject.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 6:48 am

      I’ve seen videos on the French TV
      Just saying that renders your argument invalid : French TV is, like most medias, biased (I know, I'm French). They are just relaying informations from different sources (IDF, MFA, AFP, AP, ...) without any investigation.
      IHH is registered in the UNHCR as an NGO Partner, just before "France Terre d'Asile", page 39 of this document.

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 6:13 am

      I don't really have an opinion on whether French or American cinema is "better", but I'll let you read this nice piece (in French) of a cinema critic about Avatar (yep, this movie). In short, there was some kind of controversy : there's no more real cinema critics in France because Avatar was appraised. Rafik Djoumi says that the problem with "real" critics in France is that they take cinema as a modern and contemporary artform, when american cinema is an entertainement and is more close to the old artform of fables like La Fontaine.
      link to arretsurimages.net

      Personnaly, I don't care, I like a movie because of it's narrative form (Primer or The Taste of Tea), visual impact (Cameron's or Lucas' work), etc...

      But we're not on a movie forum, sorry about that

    • melka June 10, 2010 at 5:22 am

      thankgodimatheist, you forgot one factor (and that might be the biggest one), his relationship with the medias and jewish associations. Remember when he wrote this book about the Murder of Daniel Pearl ? Everyone in France (well, at least every newspaper, TV show, etc...) said that it was a fantastic book. But he got pwnd (sorry for the geeky language, but this term seems to be the most appropriate) by a lot of great international book reviews, like William Dalrymple. Same thing with American Vertigo, being considered one of the best "road-book" in France, while the NYTimes slams it.
      Dieudonné, a controversed french comedian, calls him the "billionair philosopher".

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 12:26 pm

      Yeah, some French media got him angry, constantly making fun of him for 3 whole weeks. He almost lost another button on his shirt and his haircut all messed up, it was funny.

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 10:42 am with 26 replies

      hm, I thought those were the words of our national propaganda artist Bernard Henry Levy, but he must have taken it from the Hasbara Handbook.
      Speaking of this book, there's this delicious quote :

      Page 106, speaking of The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem by Benny Moris and the "Arab myth that Palestinian Arabs were expelled systematically and by force from their homes"
      The main thing that the Israeli activist needs to remember is that despite the desire both sides have to claim the moral high ground, what happened over 50 years ago has only limited relevance. The forward towards peace is more important than apportioning blame for the events that happened over 50 years ago.

      I'll let you savour this and much more :
      link to middle-east-info.org

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 10:05 am with 33 replies

      their army is the “most moral in the world”
      I've always wondered where this quote comes from ? Anyone got a clue ?

  • Flotilla was successful: NBC Nightly News airs searing report on Gaza 'prison'
  • Internet killed the hasbara star
    • melka June 10, 2010 at 7:22 am

      Ok, I think I understand now.
      Let's say that this "recording" is made in the Israeli ship, so everything comes from the same antenna. If different ships are answering, should they have the same frequency band (maybe because it's the antenna or the onboard radio system that is filtering) ? Or if the emitting ship (Mavi Marmara for example) have a different band than the israeli ship, is the signal received with the band of the emitting or receiving ship ?
      Not sure I'm clear, but thanks a lot for all the explanation.

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 2:17 am

      talknic, I'm reading your post about the attack by the Arab League, it's just fantastic, you've done such a great work !
      Going back to reading, still have a long way to go.

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 1:16 am with 2 replies

      Wow, nice posts, especially the first one. If you have more technical infos about the audio spectrum analysis (how different white noises might be created, why the end of transmission signal must be the same, etc...) I'd be highly interested.
      I'd like to add something : why the timestamp and other infos from the helicopter camera shot in nightvision have been blurred ? Remember this video uncovered by WikiLeaks, about the helicopter shooting in Iraq ? You can see everything on it.

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 12:58 am

      Just let me check the last TV news from France, but I'm pretty sure we, froggies, have been fed hasbara once again.

    • melka June 9, 2010 at 12:55 am

      Ok, I know this will sound stupid (lack of evidence + source), but we were talking about Israel's PR campaign on IRC and an Israeli participant in the discussion said that he received an email from the "Public Diplomacy and Diaspora Affairs Minister" (not sure it was this minister) inviting Israelis to talk about the Flotilla massacre on Internet forums using 3 points :
      - This was not an humanitarian aid boat (Hamas contraband, etc...)
      - Israel's blockade is legal
      - The people on the boat were looking for a fight
      Too bad I didn't ask, I would have liked to have a copy of this email.

  • An unqualified defense of Helen Thomas
  • O'Keefe: Gandhi would have defended the 'Mavi Marmara'
    • melka June 7, 2010 at 12:29 pm

      This is the first time that I hear the word "abducted" on TV used by a journalist or news anchor, and I'm not even sure I heard this word in interviews.

  • Headline says it all
    • melka June 7, 2010 at 10:52 am

      There's also the question (as in any war) of Oil. Two major oil fields are on the border of Gaza's territorial water and Lebanon's water. Turkey's is also a major route for every pipeline coming from Azerbaijan and the Caspian Sea.
      link to globalresearch.ca
      link to rense.com
      link to worldpress.org

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 10:33 am

      I may sound radical, but I can't believe that France, known as the country of the revolution and the human rights etc..., and our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Bernard Kouchner, who founded Doctors Without Borders and Doctors Of The World, have less courage than say Unite, the largest British Union, or the Docker's Union of Sweden, who both said they are boycotting Israel's good as they did with South African during the Apartheid.
      Declarations in front of a microphone are not enough.

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 10:26 am with 2 replies

      Did you hear about Megaphone ?
      It's a software from GIYUS.org (Give Israel Your United Support) that you install and warns you when somebody finds some anti-Israel blog post, forum, etc... Hasbara 2.0 in a way. It's frightening.
      link to giyus.org

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 9:57 am

      It seems that some Turkish prosecutors are already taking action.
      link to todayszaman.com

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 9:56 am with 6 replies

      Unfortunately, it's not just the US, but some European countries too. I can only speak about what I know, so I'll just say that France is once again being very "shy" on the subject, politicians and medias.

  • Israeli discourse on Gaza flotilla makes our press look poodle
    • melka June 7, 2010 at 10:06 am

      If you want, here's a little document I wrote. It's kind of a notebook of what I felt when watching TV between May 31st and June 1st. It's in French, sorry :
      link to melka.one.free.fr

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 9:41 am

      "the reviewing agency was very critical of France 2 and wiped the floor with it and with Israel for the one-sided reporting."

      That's exactly what's nice :)
      Knowing that the Government sponsored TV, payed by citizens (we are paying a 120 euros tax per year for financing the national TV), is just another propaganda machine is nice to know :)

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 9:07 am

      I'm trying to download the videos from France 2's website, but it's taking some time.
      You can watch the news here :
      link to jt.france2.fr

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 8:46 am with 3 replies

      It's obvious that those false comments (about Auschwitz and 9/11) are once again a way to push the old Guilt Button. Everybody knows this tactic, and it's starting to no longer work. Just look at how that poor girl got owned by Norman Finkelstein at the University of Waterloo.
      I no longer remember who that was, but a French or Belgian historian said that we are now having a new generation of people (aged between 18 and 25) being involved in the Israelo-Palestinian conflict, and this new generation no longer feels guilty for what happened during the second world war but instead, they feel ashamed for not doing anything regarding Gaza and the West Bank. Sadly, for the most hardcore zionists, they still play with the same old cards.

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 7:56 am with 9 replies

      From the Mavi Marmara or from the Rachel Corrie ?

    • melka June 7, 2010 at 7:46 am with 11 replies

      For those of you who understand French, a nice article about how France 2, French national TV, covered the subject :
      link to acrimed.org

  • Rep. Sherman: prosecute U.S. citizens involved with Gaza flotilla
    • melka June 4, 2010 at 8:52 pm

      "illegal for any American to give food, money, school supplies, paper clips, concrete or weapons to Hamas or any of its officials"

      Concrete, money and weapons, I can understand. But food ? Do they plan on starving Hamas to death ? Oh sorry, it's not really the elected government they want to starve, but the people who voted for them.
      And what about paperclips and school supplies ? They want them to be unable to classify some top secret files (plans for deadly cardamome bomb) ?

      After hearing the "audio recording" and seeing all those dumb photos, I'm amazed people still believe in Israel's government.

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