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Goddamn I love this phrase:
"Habarapocalypse"
There, I said it :)
Yup a version of this has run in the Guardian today and it doesn't read well for Israel. Slowly the terms of reference are changing...
link to guardian.co.uk
Yes but what does the world think of Nelson Mandela and what does the world think of the Apartheid regime now that it is gone. You should have a long hard think about that...
Hophmi, I think you have a serious bone to pick with Mssr's Gere and Clooney, seriously those guys are obsessed with Tibet and South Sudan and it's out of order. Someone should wise them up about Israel to stop their unfair and discriminatory focus!
"Most of world stood silent when 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, so I don’t really give much weight to world opinion.
Most of world does business with China, so I can’t say most of the world has much credibility when it comes to human rights."
Russia lost 20 million people in WWII, China 10 million, many were killed by the Nazis who were not Jewish, I wouldn't exactly say the world stood by, other countries did have some problems of their own to deal with....
It's pretty telling that within one comment you move from comparing Israel's democracy to the USA, to comparing Israel's human rights record to China... Anyway you're going in the right direction and at least you're in the ball-park now.
You've got to be joking. American democracy was formed when slavery was still common place around the world. When Israeli "democracy" was formed we had the universal declaration of human rights, and yet even with this example to look to Israel chose apartheid. Try again, to the rest of the world you're just a bit better than Iran and North Korea
link to haaretz.com
Israel: making the world a better place
Hasbara truly plumbs new depths of desperation.
Can't they see that this is just like a red rag to a bull for "culture jammer" types.
Every poster for Israel that I see on the tube in London is defaced, it's not because London is full of anti-Semites, it's because a large proportion of the public are sick to the back teeth of Israel's governments and their constant fucking lies.
You haven't understood it. Obviously some Jews support war with Iran, they're all over the MSM and they're members of aipac. "Jews" as a homogenous, monolithic bloc is what is referred to here. You are either a pedant, or you lack comprehension skills.
dms - Here you go, link to tibettruth.com
You won't get any joy from the one-track-minders on this website - god knows I've tried
But pop on over to tibet truth - they might be prepared to step out of their China-focused ghetto and look seriously at what is going on in Israel/Palestine.
"the movement is growing"
Last night on BBC4 I watched the last episode of this documentary series about the fight against apartheid in South Africa.
link to clarityfilms.org
I'm not sure how you would get to watch it in the US but I can't recommend it highly enough.
Reading everyday about the awful reality in Palestine I sometimes feel extremely pessimistic. After watching this series I had a momentary burst of extreme optimism!
There are many parallels to the contemporary struggle of the Palestinians in this series and I'm convinced they are not by accident. It feels like one of those cases where you use one example which is currently acceptable in the discourse to speak of another that is currently taboo.
Check it out people, it's inspiring.
Yeah. He ain't that good:
link to youtube.com
I guess the odd thing slips through the net though... I've just been watching Mad Men and in the episode where they're trying to brand Israel as a tourist destination the ad man says "maybe they should stop blowing up hotels!". After the Israelis leave of course - maybe he's meant to be Anti-Semitic though...
Winnica is right. It's "only" one in three Shoah survivors that lives in poverty in Israel.
link to haaretz.com
Sorry, I actually meant Adelson not Gingrich!
It does beg the question if he loves it so much why doesn't he go live there?
Brewer, that quote is Sun Tzu (Art of War), but no less true for it.
Among other things Lao Tzu said:
Why is it so hard to rule?
Because people are so clever.
Rulers who try to use cleverness
Cheat the country.
Those who rule without cleverness
Are a blessing to the land.
Hmm, with such a pathetic percentage of residents expressing their objections, there must have been some serious "additional information" that was made available to the decision makers in order to prompt this decision to exclude them...
From the London campaign...
A double Christmas treat
A new record in Veolia's free fall:
Veolia's share value dived further this week:
lowest share value in more than 5 years - £7.80 [down from £63] on Dec 20, 2011.
However, as the attached graph shows, it seems 21st ended worse than the deep on the 20th - is it because of the loss of WLWA that was announced on the 21st?
link to markets.ft.com
A surprisingly factual report in the JC:
The report on the Veolia loss in the staunch Israel can do no wrong weekly, informs readers of the Israeli crimes and Veolia's complicity. A few of the worthwhile quotes:
"The reasons behind the decision by the WLWA to exclude Veolia are commercially confidential but the impact of human rights campaigners should not be under-estimated."
"a letter to the WLWA documenting Veolia's direct complicity in grave breaches of international and humanitarian law in Jerusalem and the West Bank."
"Veolia takes waste from Israel and illegal Israeli Settlements and dumps this on Palestinian land at the Tovlan landfill."
"'Complicity in infringing human rights and international law has become an expensive business for Veolia."
link to thejc.com
As a bonus, you may wish to read Hoffman's comment of disbelief: "No evidence it has been excluded" and his other usual denials.
The campaign in north London is against massive £4.7billion contracts [worth 10 times that in the successful campaign in west London]. We are encountering an unprecedented NLWA commitment to Veolia, which only this month has now started to show the first cracks. We successfully exposed the NLWA legal position was untenable and that Veolia's Fuel solution was against NLWA's own objectives. This resulted in the Fuel short-listing being deferred to next February - a desperate decision the NLWA made literally at the last minute. Hopefully we'll win this one as well.
The next No2VAG meeting in on Monday, 9 January, 2012 at 7:30pm, at:
The Regent (downstairs), 201-203 Liverpool Road, N1 1LX (Islington)
Yael Kahn
Fingers crossed for the north london bid. I fear we may not be so successful there. Some of the councillors involved in the decision making process appear to be card-carrying zionists and they have been completely dismissive of approaches made to them about the legal complications that may ensue from any involvement with Veolia...
Well in London the Ahava shop shut down...
The Telegraph is colloquially known as the "Torygraph" in the UK. I have never heard it described as remotely left-leaning. To be fair it's not as full of blatant fear-mongering and outright racism as the Daily Mail though. The readers of that paper are deranged with paranoia that the English way of life is under threat from sinister foreigners invading our country. It works the same everywhere I guess...
Palestinians are an invented people.
Ergo this must be a figment of Gingrinch's fevered imagination
link to haaretz.com
He is dead. Sorry for his family and friends...
Hophmi
Duh, like Annie is going to agree with US policy re Cuba.
You guys really don't have much in the locker do you.
It's like the "whataboutery" Hasbarists on the Guardian. "But what about what the UK has done in Iraq, Afghanistan".
YES we were on the streets protesting AGAINST that. We're fucking embarrassed by our governments. Dufus...
I second Cliff. Annie, you rock!
The only "religious" text I have ever read that actually made sense to me was Tao Te Ching.
Cantonese and Mandarin are not mutually intelligible except through writing. I have the same experience my dad never spoke Cantonese to me, my mother was English so now I can only communicate with those on my dad's side who speak English (not my grandparents for instance) it's frustrating as I've taugt myself some but it's only really as good as my school French...
Woody
WORD
No wonder they're keeping this under their hats - it's truly desperate.
So let's see, almost 1/3 of the population of "the only democracy in the Middle East™" a supposed economic miracle state - would rather live elsewhere.
What does this tell you...
I liked: "Sorry for the inconvenience. We are trying to change the world"
I'm going to a talk by Finkelstein next week link to eventsbot.com
Never seen him speak in the flesh so really looking forward to it.
I like the way he is undiplomatic, unapologetic, and doesn't suffer fools gladly
It's refreshing
It's photoshop, but it's a nice job ;)
Another thing that fucking annoys me
No it doesn't TEL AVIV does.
I wonder if I'm paranoid but that part of it make me suspect this info is fed from Israeli sources.
Customarily the Guardian uses the correct "Israel believes" or "Tel Aviv believes".
YEAH - tell me about it.
The UK - not only America's poodle, but also its fig-leaf now it seems.
link to guardian.co.uk
Top story front page of the Guardian here in the UK.
The effort to "prepare the ground" in the public consciousness continues apace...
I love the Dead Kennedys, and I think he's gone in with a genuine attitude of open-mindedness. BUT he has not done a great job of his fact-checking AND you can tell from the article that all his interpersonal interactions and information have come from Israelis not Palestinians. Who however well intentioned can't escape the propaganda environment that exists in Israel.
Among many, here's a corker from the conlusion of the piece:
"I personally support a two-state solution in hopes it can lead to a one-state solution in our lifetime. In the short run we may get a three-state solution if Hamas in Gaza splits with Hezbollah in the West Bank, like when East Pakistan broke off and became Bangladesh."
Ha ha
Matt Lee is a fucking LEGEND!
You have to love this guy...
DOG with a BONE
link to youtube.com
Victoria Nuland is quoted as saying:
"But she said the U.S. would maintain membership in the body. "The UNESCO General Conference’s action does not diminish our determination to work with UNESCO to advance U.S. national interests. Therefore, we will maintain our membership in UNESCO and our commitment to UNESCO," the State Department said. "
But if you don't pay your UNESCO dues then you are not eligible to vote so it's a pretty toothless membership that the US will be left with.
USA - cutting off its nose to spite its face for Israel since 1948 ;)
Well I was waiting for someone to notice...
;)
So if they dig up a ring in Rome that has a roman name on it - let's say Spurius - and I change my name to that. Does that prove my family were of Roman origin? Because that's Netanyahu's logic...
I don't know anyone in the UK, other than card-carrying zionists who believes the propaganda bullshit trotted out in support of Israel. It's the "boy who cried wolf" effect, even the big lie only gets you so far.
Also in the long-term I think the Israeli PR strategy is unsustainable, you can use lies, threats and intimidation - but it is ultimately alienating to people, especially when they realise they have been lied to for so long.
"Israel supporters" such as you find on the Guardians "comment is free" etc are so fucking obnoxious that they achieve the opposite of their goal - to convince otherwise undecided folk that Israel is in the right. All they do is preach to the converted - and disgust everyone else with their mendaciousness and aggressive point-scoring - it's absolutely impossible to have a civilised discourse with such people and patience is wearing very thin with the public. They still have the political power - but they are massively losing the battle of public perception here.
The internet has fucked up the effectiveness of Hasbara pretty good.
Yeah the presence of black people in America is proof that America has never been a racist state.
Oh...
Idiot
If this is what belonging to the mainstream Jewish community in America is about, censorship and collective guilt trips. Then I can see why so many young'uns are opting out.
link to haaretz.com
See? What did I say? The Israeli state forces are thoroughly infiltrated and they have no idea who they can trust.
Civil war is coming...
Ha, I only just bothered to look at your link and this is an extract of what it had to say:
Their sentences were controversially commuted three times by then President Chaim Herzog and they were released after serving less than seven years. On their 1990 release the three were hailed as "heroes" by leaders of the Gush Emunim movement.[1] The Jewish Underground caused a rift in Gush Emunim. The existence of a violent underground had, until the mass arrests, been dismissed by most Gush Emunim members as falsehood circulated by Peace Now to discredit the movement.
And things are MUCH worse now.
Is that honestly the best you can do?
Yeah they really "dealt" with them
Relying on the Americans to dig you out of the hole you've dug for yourselves forever and ever has turned out to be a shitty plan....
Anyway, the settlers don't need the support of the Israeli public - they have M16's to enforce their will.
They won't work hand in hand with the security services - many of them ARE the security services.
Except in your fantasy world, they don't want the radicals stopped, they ARE the radicals.
Eee, I hate to break this to you but the problem is not that the rest of the world doesn't understand Israel well enough. The problem is that Israeli's are so brainwashed with propaganda that they don't understand the rest of the world.
Time and world opinion is not on your side and Hasbara won't fix it...
Eee, you are right, I don't understand Israel.
But I must say, actions speak louder than words...
I wonder, where are eee, hophmi, dbg and the rest?
I thought they would have been straight here explaining what sort of "provocation" the soldiers must have instigated to cause this attack...
It must be so confusing, no Palestinians to blame. Oh well, the next talking point will be "Hellenistic Jews".
It will go down well with right-wing Israelis, but let's see how it flies in the rest of the world, especially the US.
I have been saying this sort of thing was coming for some time. How will Netanyahu know which of the IDF and police he can rely on and which are with the settlers?
BDS is not the biggest threat to Israel's international image and legitimacy, this is. And the govt can't do shit about it.
All this stalling for time has just meant that the results of the coming settlement evictions will be so much worse than Netanyahu and his pals could possibly have imagined.
Pogroms against Jew and Palestinian alike will occur, and the ugliness of what occupation has done to Israeli society will be revealed to the world
He has the "dog with a bone" technique down good.
Good on Matt. I only know him through his questions at these briefings. But I like his style!
Not to excuse the terrible things the US govt has perpetrated around the world. But most of them are exactly that, around the other side of the world, out of sight and out of mind of the general populace who are in denial.
For Israelis the crimes are right on your own doorstep. And you're committing them against the neighbours. That's a big difference psychologically, and you can see it in Israeli defensiveness.
Well America does't recognise Israel as the Jewish State. So does that make all Americans anti-Semitic?
DBG - why don't you read the actual speech I linked to, and then tell me which bits of it you disagree with.
Play the ball and not the man, eh old chap...
DBG: Alan Hart - truther.
Wikipedia: Alan Hart - Alan Hart is an author, former Middle East Chief Correspondent for Independent Television News,[1] and former BBC Panorama presenter specialising in the Middle East.
Smear tactics much?
Anyway, there's nothing in the speech I linked to that blames Mossad for 911 so why not read the actual speech instead of engaging in your usual tactic of ad-hominem?
Afraid of what you might find out?
Alan Hart, personal friend of Golda Meir...
"Zionism: The real enemy of the Jews"
link to alanhart.net
Lynching, also known as Lynch law; named after Charles Lynch (jurist); a form of extralegal judgment and punishment, usually by killing
I'm sorry but the English use of Lynch is quite clear and should usually mean killing. That's why it was commonly used to describe the hanging of black people by racists in the US south. The usage you are describing is not a correct understanding of the term as used in English - noun or not....
Dozens of settlers surround IDF patrol in West Bank and assault soldiers
link to haaretz.com
Civil War
Here it comes....
I think that settler violence spiralling out of control has the potential to do far more damage to Israels "legitimacy" than even BDS.
The illusion of "the only democracy" would be shatterered.
And more importantly they won't be able to blame the violence on the Palestinians as usual.
The mask will have slipped and I'll wager it will never go back on again as far as world public opinion is concerned.
I honestly think that civil war, or at least armed conflict between the settlers and the state is just around the corner for Israel.
The frightening thing for Netanyahu is that many of the forces that should be the states defence against this (IDF and police) will act in defence of the settlers. He has absolutely no ability to control these developments.
If he is worried about the damage that BDS is doing to Israels image he is worrying about the wrong thing. He should be worrying about what he will do to deal with the settler threat. They have large amounts of weapons and a messianic ideology that can't be reasoned with. That is a very dangerous cOmbination
Elliot. I am fully aware of the early history of Zionism. And using the same form of argumentation IF there had been a strand of Nazi's that weren't anti-semtitic then Nazism wasn't anti-semitic. It's great in this imaginary world that might have been, isn't it? You can win all the arguments you want, based on what might have been! Splendid!
I can vouch that he does not support Israel right or wrong. He is highly critical of the current government.
But Dex don't you see, this is how arguments are "won".
It's akin to the use of "plausible deniability" that governments employ.
Make the discussion about the terms and not the actions AND obfuscate the terms.
So, Zionism simultaeneously means support for bi-nationalism and the "Jewish State", and I get to pick the definition depending on what you say to me.
It's similar to the simultaneous use of Jewish to mean, nationality, ethnicity or religion, and I only decide which definition I'm using once I've heard what you gave to say (so I can use the definition most expedient to my sidebof the argument) - good game isn't it?
You have missed my point.
Haber is in a sense the "Imaginary Zionist" as he supports a vision of Zionism which never emerged.
He is diametrically opposed to the Zionism of the Israeli government which is Zionism as practiced in reality. So your argument is a mere word-game, which you may win if you please...
As I said, semantic trickery...
I think I phrased that wrong :)
I meant breed with non-Jews.
I find the fear and hysteria, and the emotional blackmail that this creates in some of the Jewish community one of the most disturbing things about Jewish nationalism.
RW
I never understand anything you say...
You should write riddles for a greeting card manufacturer.
I think it could be a splendid second income
Oops, Magnes not magnesium, bloody phone spell-check!
Hmm. But Haber explicitly endorses the "cultural Zionism" of Magnesium and Buber, which envisioned a bi-national state, and which has never been close to being realised. And he explicitly criticises the "political Zionism" of Herzl which is the prevailing political culture of Israel and the lived reality of Palestinians under occupation. So when you offer up Haber as an example of Zionism it is either ignorant, disingenuous or a argument merely utilising a semantic trickery.
Hey, I don't know her, but she sounds like a nice person. I'm not criticising her because I don't know her circumstances. But if you say in your own words "I love diversity", I don't think it's "unfair" to ask the question "then why not live some diverse". Especially as the place you have chosen to live is developing an increasingly hysterical mentality of "circle the wagons", "everybody hates us, so we hate them" and "don't interbreed, it will be the end of us"
She is mostly talking sense, but then she says this:
"Have you been to Tel Aviv? It’s a monoculture. It’s as boring as can be.
I’m from New York. I love diversity."
Which does beg the question, then why not live somewhere with the diversity you love?
Irishmoses.
Nonsense, my definition IS the definition of war legally. It was pointed out at the time that the phrase emerged that a "War on terror" is nonsensical because terrorism is a tactic. Your assertion that the definition has been overtaken by history is nothing more than excusing the actions of a US government cynically ignoring it's own constitution. As to your ideas about the justification necessary for war, so you are saying with a straight face that the governments of Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen all created, supplied, directed and lead Al Quaeda? Well i can't argue with that logic...
IrishMoses, I don't think you have a very rigourous definition of war which is commonly defined as only existing between states. I'm from the Uk, where the IRA waged several terrorist campaigns. By your logic it would have been OK if we'd invaded and bombed Dublin.
But the EDL, (the Zionists current allies in the UK) are telling us we should never surrender to Aslan!
I'm so confused!
https://stuartsorensen.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/defending-narnian-car-parks-from-radical-aslanisation/
Shock & horror!
Hold the press!
Torygraph blog writer in right-wing rant!
Meanwhile in the world of actual public opinion in the UK...
link to 21stcenturysocialism.com
link to guardian.co.uk
link to haaretz.com
Hophmi, your comment shows you haven't got a f**king clue about European attitudes. Face it, there was a cultural similarity when emigration to Israel first occurred because those immigrants were mostly Europeans. Now after 50 odd year of separate evolution the Israeli culture is riddled with cancerous intolerance as all settler societies seem to be. You might play in our football and basketball league to make yourselves feel more "Western", but your culture is uniquely Israeli, it's nothing like most of europe. Dream on...
Yeah I was a bit unfair. After the 1st half I thought the US would go on to win easily. They created better chances and were bullying the Japanese. But the Jaoanese play more composed football. Once they got a foothold in the game and started to create chances it was panic stations at the back for America. The Japanese never let their heads drop, the Americans seemed rattled that they got back into it twice... Anyway good game, both good sides, I just prefer the style of play of the Japanese.
It was a close game. The Japanese play nicer football though. The American game is all about their extra physical presence, they were much stronger, but it's a bit "route 1". Pass and move, like the Japanese played is better to watch. I knew the Japanese would won the shoot-out when I saw the team-talks at the end. They didn't look like they were feeling much pressure, the Americans looked petrified of losing "to the Japanese".
I tried to get my dog stoned once when I was a teenager. I did blowbacks towards it while it was in its dog bed but it ran away and I burned my mouth :(
Ha ha. The man from "Just Journalism", writing in the "Torygraph"... Yeah, that sounds like a reliable source. Why do they even bother :(
The UK is also a multi-ethnic society (although some would wish otherwise)
Sorry clenchner but if you're comparing devolution in the UK to the breakup of Yugoslavia, the USSR and the divisions in Belgium then you haven't the faintest idea about civic society in the Uk!
Yeah well, the Guardian have to watch their arses because they've got these fuckers on their case...
link to cifwatch.com
The usual bully-boy tactics ;)
Yep. You don't even have to go that far north, as some of my mum's family say "we're not English, we're Scouse" (that means from Liverpool).
I mentioned this book on another thread. "More bad news from Israel", it's excellent. The BBC come off especially badly, and that was before Mark Thompson!
Wow, just wow! He has got some front when it comes to pitching the big BS lines. Totally straight faced, doesn't even bat an eyelid.
I'm not even American and I feel pissed off by this! I can't imagine any American watching this (unless they are already a card-carrying Zionist sympathiser) will be nodding approvingly as he spins his fucking disingenuous nonsense.
Oops, needed to post the link link to guardian.co.uk
I don't really watch it as it's on sattelite. I get the impression it's better than Fox, but then that's not saying much. I hate the "packaging" (all the graphics etc, - cheap and nasty!) and the tone, but apparently they do break some serious stories. However at the end of the day its Murdoch and I don't trust any of his organisations. Here is sn example of a Sky news presenter trying to get tough. Not quite in the same league as Jon Snow....
We don't have anything as execrable as Fox here but a lot of our news is shit too! I can't even bear to watch the BBC news anymore, it's just irrelevant. Channel 4 news is the only decent one on terrestrial tv in the UK, here's Regev actually being required to EARN his blood money by Jon Snow link to youtube.com
Somehow I don't think that'd happen on one of the MSM channels in the US
Facebook is run by arseholes. They even cynically used the royal wedding as cover to delete protest pages like "UK Uncut" which opposes tax evasion/"avoidance" by corporations. They did this under the usual cover-all excuse of security concerns. link to m.boingboing.net
Sorry but Facebook=wankers as far as the ownership is concerned.
Fair enough, I can see why Israel is a far more suitable country for you and your children than the UK for all the reasons you list.
Maybe you feel these inconveniences more acutely than the "average" because of your strong faith. I guess many people identify more as "socio-cultural Jews" rather than "Religious Jews". I'm not familiar with how it works in the US regarding holidays etc but lots of Jewish contributors on this site seem to like it in the US. Do you think you would struggle with these problems there too?
And after all, it's not as if the UK govt isn't doing terrible things in Iraq and Afghanistan in my name...
Doesn't it bother you a bit though? The awful way the Israeli govt treats the Palestinians? I'm not saying I have answers. I'm just saying if what my govt was doing in far away countries was happening on my doorstep I'd be disturbed by it, and probably looking to move away. I really feel sorry for people who aren't so lucky to have these choices...
GF I do understand where you are coming from, but my background and life experiences have meant I have a developed a different viewpoint from your own.
I was born to a mixed-race marriage (Chinese and English) and experienced many of the same frustrations with the pre-eminence of Christian custom in the UK growing up (although for different reasons as I am an atheist). I could not understand why shops were shut on Sundays, I didn't want to sing hymns, I was jealous of my Jewish friend who didn't have to go to RE lessons (he had a letter from his parents).
My mum remembers moving to London in the 60's and seeing No Blacks or Irish" on most guesthouses. My parents were refused service in markets etc on the odd occasion so I'm under no illusions about the prevalence of racism in the UK - it's definitely there. There were no other mixed-race children in my year so I was subjected to some casual racism (chinky etc) but because of my background it was not possible to identify as "belonging" to one group or other. Therefore my identity is a universal one as a human being, I don't deny the influences that my Chinese and English heritage have had on me but I am naturally averse to nationalistic or tribal tendencies.
I understand your desire to surround yourself in a culture and society that you feel you belong to, but I think what is missing is an understanding that what you complain about in the UK is exactly what Israel does to non-Jews, and in my opinion it is far more pronounced than in the UK:
"I was compelled by law to take Easter and Xmas as holidays and forced to use vacation days to celebrate my own faith. I was also a subject of the Queen, by accident of birth, so that my head of state was also Supreme Governor of the Church of England."
I guess I'm saying that I think "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is one of the ideas I agree with in the Bible and I find it missing in your sentiments.
I'm from the UK and GF's griping about "religious freedom" is nonsense. The UK is basically a secular nation yet it has a far greater degree of religious freedoms - FOR ALL FAITHS - than Israel which is focused on Judaism and has far less separation of church and state than the UK.
What he's actually complaining about is living in a multicultural democracy instead of a religiously-focused ethnocracy where HIS PARTICULAR FAITH is the pre-eminent one.
“I would like to live in a country where my different culture and my different way of doing things is celebrated as the norm rather than sidelined as a minority pursuit.”
There's nothing wrong with that but it is dishonest to paint the UK as in some way especially intolerant of Judaism or Jews. The intolerance of difference here is largely on GF's side.
Ha ha ha, that is classic!
I am surprised at how little comment is passed on the extreme views of right-wing Pro-Israeli activism in the mainstream media.
In the UK the EDL is regularly front page news in left-leaning papers such as the Guardian as it represents the current embodiment of the bogeyman of skinhead fascism, which the UK has a rich history of (National Front, British National Party etc)
Strangely this story link to thejc.com
was only covered in the Jewish Chronicle (a horrible paper). I do understand the myopia which informs the focus of the JC, but I can't understand why other outlets wouldn't pick this up....
After all if this sort of scandalous association was discovered involving (gasp) Muslamic types we'd never hear the end of it.
link to youtube.com
I like this piece.
One to be logged under "refreshingly honest".
One wonders how many Americans are actually sympathetic when the situation is presented, as here, "warts and all".
From a UK perspective it's actually quite astounding how tone deaf certain members of the Israeli government are to outside opinion.
At least Bibi tries to put an acceptable face on it.
I live in London and have seen the EDL at the Ahava protests. It's very strange that even the zionist counter demonstrators associate with them because they're blatant fascists. One of the most virulent, a man called Jonathon Hoffman got caught out lying when he accused a professional photo-journalist of photoshopping a picture of him with the EDL. He had to make an embarrassing apology.
link to azvsas.blogspot.com
In fact hilariously (or frighteningly - depends on how you look at it) the EDL "Jewish Division" were expelled for being "too extreme". This is from an organisation commonly regarded in the Uk as far-right and the successor to neo-Nazi skinhead groups such as the NF (National Front) and BNP (British National Party).
link to thejc.com
You couldn't make it up!
Is THIS an influential Rabbi?
Chief Rabbi confuses Monty Python with history
Hur hur - just kidding ;)
I'll be honest, I have no idea how influential he is as I'm not Israeli.
However his wikipedia entry describes him as: "a prominent religious author and political activist in Israel and a Chabad-Lubavitch rabbi." 40 books published!
And the fact that the largest circulation daily in Israel finds this story important enough to cover shows that he has some influence - at least in the settler community.
Remember that's what we're discussing here - how the settlers might react to eviction.
However I'm keen to learn about these other Rabbi's - you know the ones that don't sign letters forbidding fraternising with Arabs, or selling houses to Arabs. Please let me know who they are...
Ta ta ;)
"Just go over the list of influential Rabbis in Israel, and you will see that not one would condone a Jew firing on a Jew, no matter what."
Erm, wrong: Rabbi Wolpo: Fire rubber bullets back at soldiers
Maybe you should read the whole thread ;)
GF so in your opinion these sorts of stories are not a sign of things to come? You are ever the optimist ;)
link to haaretz.com
link to haaretz.com
link to jpost.com
link to mondoweiss.net
DBG - Hasbara end of term report card: Must try harder!
Mistake number one: That well known "anti-israel hate site" Fox News! Doh!
Mistake number two: Counterpunch covers such a broad range of topics that to label it anti-Israel is proof only of your myopic paranoia.
Mistake number three: The Israel Lobby Archive most definitely has an agenda against the "Israel Lobby" unfortunately for you all of the documents contained therein are "declassified documents about the Israel lobby, most obtained through Freedom of Information Act filings with law enforcement officials and US intelligence agencies" good luck to the Zionists if this information ever becomes widely available to the American public...
Better luck next time ;)
There are two excellent books on this subject that I can think of off the top of my head. "Bad news from Israel" and "More bad news from Israel" both by the Glasgow university media group. They are both available from amazon, although they primarily deal with Uk news programming the imbalanced language usage, which is meticulously detailed, is prevalent across all western media. Check them out!
Yup - Sounds real friendly to me...
Jerusalem's gay pride marchers attacked
3 participants stabbed, 13 protesters arrested as ultra-Orthodox crowd tries to halt parade
link to bit.ly
eee
If the correct model is Gaza then who will play the current role of the Israeli state in sealing all borders/airspace/trade etc?
This is an interesting interview with the outgoing UK ambassador to Israel. I think it pretty fairly represents the UK establishment position towards Israel. A complete acceptance of the "Right to exist" (as if it was required!) with some mild criticism of the worst excesses and an attempt to give the conflict some semblance of historical perspective. I'd say our govt is broadly supportive of Israel (we sell them quite a lot of arms), so the hysterical hand-wringing about the UK govt "delegitimising" seems frankly ridiculous. I think it's mostly to try and stifle debate on these issues by a bit of sabre-rattling.
Most ordinary citizens in the UK would not need to be so diplomatic whichever side they stood on. I think you can then guess that his real feeling might be somewhat less equivocal.
link to jpost.com
I live in London and that is a social bubble of disproportionate diversity as far as the UK is concerned so my observations are primarily metropolitan. However I do have several Jewish friends who are all sympathetic to the Palestinian plight. I have never met a Zionist Jew socially except a couple of wingnut types that walked off the street and spat abuse at my girlfriend as she manned a "Twinning with Jenin" stall (this might be because I wear my opinions on my sleeve and most people would rather avoid an argument).
I seriously doubt that unconditional support for Israel among ordinary British Jews is that high. I believe the people who are passionate about promoting this agenda are the "vocal minority" - the vested interests with the money and connections to keep there agenda in the forefront of policy and media. They do not necessarily represent the views of the majority, just as the UK govt did not represent the majority when deciding to go to war with Iraq.
Also the type of casual racism that is acceptable in the UK is usually promoted by our tabloids with the same tired rhetoric (usually couched in terms of immigration and not "race" now); "Coming here taking our jobs", "Don't even bother to speak our language", "Don't integrate into our communities".
These accusations are not easy to level at the Jewish community, who are by and large well educated, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants if not longer, and well integrated into mainstream British life. Therefore racism against Jews is often seen from Neo-Nazi types, conspiracy nuts " The Jews run the World!!!!), and upper-class bigots behind closed doors "Not one of us" - but it not generally acceptable to espouse these views in polite company.
I'm from the UK and I've never heard of this expression in my 35 years, I suspect it is simply fabricated. Peres wishes to balance Cameron's criticism in the diplomatic sphere with some "messages" of his own. Most residents of the UK will recognise the accusation as false, but we are not the target audience so it doesn't matter. International legitimacy is at stake, and must be reclaimed by smearing the messenger and levelling accusations of Anti-Semitism and historical bias towards Arabs. What Peres will not address of course is current Israeli policy and what affect that might be having on public sentiment towards Israel (conflated of course to include all Jews).
I'm also mixed race (Chinese father, English mother) so have seen some of the racism the UK has to offer. In my experience overt racism against Jews in the UK is minimal (Racism against Chinese is also relatively low). My observation is that Muslims and black people suffer far more from racism in the UK. Muslims especially so in the current climate (the bigots often display a worryingly limited to accurately identify Muslims - I have twice seen Sikh's obviously wearing Turbans being harrassed - one with the aggresive accusation "well you're all fucking Al-Quaeda" when he corrected their mistake regarding his faith.
The fact some of the UK's most hateful far-right organisations (EDL etc) have taken to displaying Israeli flags at their "demonstrations" speaks volumes. Even though there are undoubtedly virulent anti-semites among these groups, the flag-bearing shows that what the Israeli government represents those on both left and right is the naked display of power to further the interests of a vested interest group.
The Hasbara is mostly so ludicrous it would be funny, if it wasn't being published and given precedence by (supposedly) serious media outlets worldwide. Here in the UK you can see that comments sections in websites like the Guardian are literally inundated with apologists. I wonder what the proportions are between paid/volunteers/genuine wingnuts.
One of the strangest things is how amateurish it all seems. Badly constructed fake broadcasts, exposed as fakes under the simplest spectral analysis. Off-colour satire, funny only to those completely lacking the most basic human empathy. Photos of captive and beaten commandos held up as proof of the violent, nay murderous intentions of the "terrorists" (one might ask, if the flotilla activists intention was to kill, why are they not dead?).
A case in point is the official story that the commandos only acted in self-defence after being attacked on the boat. Here is a article from the Jerusalem Post . I quote: "T. said he realized the group they were facing was well-trained and likely ex-military after the commandos threw a number of stun grenades and fired warning shots BEFORE rappelling down onto the deck. “They didn’t even flinch,” he said. “Regular people would move.” (My capitalisation).
If they are going to insult out intelligence with this drivel, at least they could make the effort to get their bloody stories straight!